Currency

[blackice]

What has there been released about money so far? I did a few searches on the site and on the wiki and came up cold.

[blackice]

Update: I just found this.
Economy

The economy is entirely player run. It relies heavily on players to gather resources, craft necessary items and trade. Players can barter or buy and sell using local currency.

Town and individual bank accounts.
Towns can impose taxes.
Town quartermaster can collect resources and goods.
Player run shops and auctions.
Players post want ads to increase demand.
Resources can be controlled and destroyed to reduce supply.
Trade between individuals and towns.

Is that all so far?

[Jagsman32]

Are we going to have the ability to print or customize our currency? Like if we have a certain amount of gold or silver we can mint coins?

[Jadzia]

This will start off with simple player bartering / trade. We will add trade totems to allow players to set up offline trades. Tribes will be able to set currencies based on common items. Object decay and loss of quality as well as resources limited to certain areas should help to drive trade and the economy.

Was posted in this thread: http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/2522-Official-FAQ-List

[yoori]

bills, coins, beer tabs and bottle caps can be found in game and they will probably be used as currency. Tribes can set different currencies so it will take a while for economy to stabilise.

[AlexTaldren]

It will definitely be a barter-style economy at first. Players will be trading things they don't need for things they need. However, over time, players will discover what some of the most essential materials are, and those will be established as a kind of currency. And, moreover, that could very well change based on supply/demand.

For example, nails could end up being in high demand, thus everyone will be wanting them and trading to get them. When that happens, nails will become a kind of currency. People will say things like, "I'll give you 50 nails for that X." The beauty about this game is that the developers aren't setting a currency, and therefore the value of resources and items will not be set either. And, since there are no NPC vendors (thank God), there won't be an infinite supply of resources with a base price.

It all comes down to simple economics. For instance, if the developers introduced an NPC town with a vendor you could buy skulls from for 20 nails a piece, this does a deservice to the game's economy. Why? Because then the price of skulls could never be higher than 20 nails--forcing players to sell them for 20 or less. It's going to be very interesting to see how the player-driven economy grows and evolves.

[blackice]

Nice thats all some good info. Thanks abunch. Thats a good theory alex and i think for larger tribes trading its going to be with nails or some other low weight commonly used item.

[Jadzia]

I thought there were no rare resources, Jadzia? You cussed me out in my last thread when I said it's stupid to have safe zones when tribes can lock down 'limited resources.'

Resources being limited to certain areas doesn't mean they are rare. There will be a plenty of them, but not everywhere.

I cussed you out ? By saying that there are no rare resources ? You are a bit touchy, lol

[sionide]

I see things harder to find/make being a currency beyond the barter system. Perhaps only scavenged items like bottle caps.

It will be really interesting to see if actual currency will become that in game based on our preconceived notions. Maybe nails will be, who knows. I find it interesting that the abstract concept of "money" is replaced by the barter system when things are "primitive" like thet are now or when inflation is out of control.

[yoori]

Nails won't be currency and there's a simple explanation, you don't use money in crafting. We may use it as a base value, and build currency system around it.
We'll some day run out of scavenged nails and have to craft them, and their value will most probably change.

I'm guessing $, beer tabs, bottle caps. It's the most obvious choice.

[blackice]

Nails won't be currency and there's a simple explanation, you don't use money in crafting. We may use it as a base value, and build currency system around it.
We'll some day run out of scavenged nails and have to craft them, and their value will most probably change.

I'm guessing $, beer tabs, bottle caps. It's the most obvious choice.

I was saying that nails would be a form of currency because they are actually worth something and used in alot of things.it doesnt even have to be nails. Just something thats used alot and is valued by players. Different currencies would be worth more or less depending on how many tribes pick them. You might even find areas were they dont use it at all. . it will be really player driven because we actually get to choose whether to use it or not. most games its forced on you. And the option to allow tribes to pick there own currency is pretty cool. Devs definately did a good job here. They made it different and dynamic.

[Tehralph]

Blackice is right, money wont be used, resources will. Money has no value in game, and trying to force a value isnt going to work. Unless theres vendor NPCs (I hope not) that only accept $ and caps as currency, commonly used resources are going to be the main currency, because its something someone always needs.

[yoori]

I know what you meant. Nails are example, it could be anything, but currency can't be a craftable item or item used in crafting. At first we'll barter for things we need until we'll know rarity/value of things. And yes, we'll set this value based on simple items like nails, we'll say "ok, this is worth 10 nails and this 50". Then we'll have to choose non craftable items and say "this will be worth 1 nail, this 10 and that 50" also based on rarity.

Scenario 1
If we use nails as a currency economy will be very unstable amount of nails in the market will vary changeing it's value. People would collect nails to pay with them -> less nails in market, boosts it's value, people will manipulate the value of nails for their advantage and it'll be hard to control it.

Scenario 2
With scavenged non craftable item as currency it easier to control it's value, quantity of money would only raise, which would cause inflation, but thats natural and will be hard only on new players. We can set simple quests for new players to let them get thier first money and it'll be easier for them already.
We can control value of money(tribes I mean). We can buy currency of the market(taxes, selling supplies) and boost it's value or we can release money on market(higher quest rewards, sallaries for tribe jobs) and lower it's value.

I hope you understand my point of view better now.

[Ziggy]

The only way we would see a currency being used is if...
1. A large number of tribes in an area agree to use it, or spread through the world there are powerful/large tribes that agree to and use it.
2. It is pegged to an item, or in simpler terms, there are ways to convert that currency unto an item in towns that use the currency. For example, as blackice said, perhaps nails. Every 10 Drokian BottleCaps or whatever are worth 1 nail.

You will never see a more modern style of currency because no one is going to have enough faith in it to accept it as a medium for trade.

[Tehralph]

I understand your concerns that usable items wont last long, but that doesnt mean they CANT be used. The Japanese used rice as currency for hundreds of years. And the Mesopatamians used grain. Its a system that works, and being able to manipulate is part of how an economy works... 1 person cant make a difference, but a lot of people can. After we run out of nails (we'll NEVER run out of nails) we just move onto something else.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

My tribe and my allies will go lock down all the, say, quartz in the game with our various tribes. We now have all the quartz. Want some? Too bad, it's a safe zone.

Exactly... Gamekiller

[yoori]

Barter system will work and currency won't change it, it will be used in most trades between tribes, but it won't be practical in tribe's internal market and there will be one unless
it's small tribe and everything is shared.

Tribes that will trade often, will set the same currency or exchange system for members. There will be currency market on tribal level to make things easier for members.

Nails and screws will have different values in different regions based on rarity that's why lowest set value and base value in barter trades will be probably grass which is common in all areas, but it can't be used as currency.

[sionide]

I think the example of lowest base value using grass is an abstract economic creation. I can't see anyone trading for grass, unless their access to it is greatly limited, which would then defeat your stipulation put on it that everyone has it.

I would think dirt would be a better example only because people can carry more than 4 units on them and I could see people trading large amounts. Also, I could see some tribes not wanting to mess up their land with big holes.

Regardless, even money in our society isn't just money. It's (supposedly) backed by gold reserves. Gold is rare and is useful in crafting...and it's shiny (doesn't tarnish easily if at all).

As for currency in game, I really don't see way the form of it can't change. Nails could be used, since currenly they can only be found, but once mines come in it would change to something else.

Currenly, I think saw or saw blades are top form of currency because of their usefulness and rarity.

[Tehralph]

Barter system will work and currency won't change it, it will be used in most trades between tribes, but it won't be practical in tribe's internal market and there will be one unless
it's small tribe and everything is shared.

Tribes that will trade often, will set the same currency or exchange system for members. There will be currency market on tribal level to make things easier for members.

Nails and screws will have different values in different regions based on rarity that's why lowest set value and base value in barter trades will be probably grass which is common in all areas, but it can't be used as currency.

Stop saying it CANT be used because it makes you look uneducated. If you and your tribe dont want to use nails/screws/bolts/rods for currency, then dont, but dont preach about how the most common and valuable items in game cant be used as currency.

In history we have seen resources used as currency. I refer back to Japan and Mesopotamia. And after that gold coins were used, now we use paper which represents gold. So if it has value, and is accepted in trade, then that is the defintion of currency.

[yoori]

I said that grass cannot be used as a currency, that's obvious, but it can be used as a based value to compare prices in different regions.

If you want to choose craft items as currency do it, it'll be easier for us to manipulate value of items.

[sionide]

Acutally, I think you and Yoori are saying the same thing. Perhaps, he worded it oddly. I just had an issue with abstract economic creations. It sounds like something you learn in school for theory crafting, but has no real world (virtual world) applications (no one is going to trade for 4 units of grass if they have it).

And even if currency does somehow exist world (server) wide it will be because of a domination of a rare and needed resource, perhaps gas in the future. If there is only a few locations of it and a few controling tribes agree on a currency you can bet your ass the whole server will honor it.

And as for your examples, even in a Roman times they revered back to the barter system when inflation was so out of control they had to pay their soldiers in the North with food (grain) because wages based on their currency would be worthless.

[yoori]

Stop saying it CANT be used because it makes you look uneducated. If you and your tribe dont want to use nails/screws/bolts/rods for currency, then dont, but dont preach about how the most common and valuable items in game cant be used as currency.

In history we have seen resources used as currency. I refer back to Japan and Mesopotamia. And after that gold coins were used, now we use paper which represents gold. So if it has value, and is accepted in trade, then that is the defintion of currency.

OK, it CAN be used as a currency, I'm not native english, please excuse me. What I wanted to say is that it'll not be practical in a long run and make it vulnerable to manipulation.

I'm aware that resources were used it trade and we changed it eventually to paper bills representing some set value for convinence and we're not using it for any other purpose.

[sionide]

I'm aware that resources were used it trade and we changed it eventually to paper bills representing some set value for convinence and we're not using it for any other purpose.


We are using paper money, which represents gold, because gold weighs a freaking ton and is bulky.

[yoori]

We are using paper money, which represents gold, because gold weighs a freaking ton and is bulky.

Exatly my point usless item easy to stock represnts a valuable item that is unpractical in day to day use.

I'm not an oracle, I don't know how economy will work and I'm not trying to preach anyone. All I say is my opinion and most probable scenario in my head.

[sionide]

I said that grass cannot be used as a currency, that's obvious, but it can be used as a based value to compare prices in different regions.

If you want to choose craft items as currency do it, it'll be easier for us to manipulate value of items.


And what I am saying is that base value is an abstrat creation. Even though grass has an intrinsic value to it, it's not a base value. No one in their right mind will currently give you a saw or their tribal land no matter how much grass (pun not intended) you offer them. Hence, for a base value grass = 0.

And you can manipulating the market on crafted items you can, just as the value of gold fluctuates, but it will be hard. Do you know how rare a saw blade is? Sure nails are plentiful, but very needed. As I stated before, rare and useful items will be used until they are not rare anymore or much easier to make.

[yoori]

I totally agree on grass issue, I was trying to find an item that will be common in all areas as an example and it was first thing that poped in my head.

I love to think of different sceniarios how thing may go and I wanted to share them with you. If this is annoying for you I can stop.

All my predictions are based on my experience in games with players driven economy. I was even watching how prices changed during past year and tried to predict how they they will change later. Ofcourse I had all the data in auction statistics I'm not a masochist.

[sionide]

It doesn't annoy me at all. I am enjoying the conversation. And I have no idea how things will turn out either. It will be interesting.

[yoori]

Let's continue then :)

What I'm worried about is that if we use common stackable item used in crafting like nails or screws(and it has to be common if we want to use it like money; saw blade will be worth a lot of nails) someone(tribe or wealthy trader) will start to buy all the nails he can find. This will create huge demand on "nails" and raise their vaule insanely. Then he can buy all the rare items with it becouse they might reach simmilar value.

It's an absract scenario. It'll be hard to do that and even harder if we won't have global trading system, but it can happen and someone will probably try it.

[Tehralph]

Let's continue then :)

What I'm worried about is that if we use common stackable item used in crafting like nails or screws(and it has to be common if we want to use it like money; saw blade will be worth a lot of nails) someone(tribe or wealthy trader) will start to buy all the nails he can find. This will create huge demand on "nails" and raise their vaule insanely. Then he can buy all the rare items with it becouse they might reach simmilar value.

It's an absract scenario. It'll be hard to do that and even harder if we won't have global trading system, but it can happen and someone will probably try it.

But what do they buy the nails with? Your scenario is so abstract because this monopoly youre forming in your head is supplied with imagination money, and people in-game wont just give up their nails and screws for a good imaginary bill. So what if someone finds a way to aquire a lot of nails? We can gather more from scrap, mine metals and smelt (in future), choose a different high yield/low-weight item as currency, or do business with them.

Its a sandbox, and there isnt any way to prevent someone hoarding resources even if we arent using it as currency. My point, dont waste time with the middle man, especially if it serves no advantage. IE $ bills, caps, and coins.

[Gamefreak]

It turns out that this exact type of thread was done before

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/2524-Global-Currency-or-Item-for-Item-Barter?highlight=global+currency

It resulted in a 10+ page flame war, this has already been talked about to death. Is there really a need to do it again?

[eightonefive]

Stop saying it CANT be used because it makes you look uneducated. If you and your tribe dont want to use nails/screws/bolts/rods for currency, then dont, but dont preach about how the most common and valuable items in game cant be used as currency.

In history we have seen resources used as currency. I refer back to Japan and Mesopotamia. And after that gold coins were used, now we use paper which represents gold. So if it has value, and is accepted in trade, then that is the defintion of currency.

paper does not represent gold in our current economy. we left the gold standard in 1913.

[eightonefive]

if someone wanted to become say, a banker here's how he would do it. he would hoard a single valuable item. something that every tribe would want and need. regardless if the item is still obtainable, if that item was just a pain to carry a lot of, or like dirt nobody wanted to dig up big holes in their land. he would say that 10 paper dollars equaled 1 dirt. He would then allow you to trade in dirt for paper dollars, or paper dollars for dirt. Now your paper dollars are are backed by something physical, because you know that even though on it's own, paper dollars are just paper, you can bring these paper dollars to this trader and receive their set value in dirt. other tribes know this as well, so they have no problem accepting these paper dollars because they are dirt certificates, and you can carry many more of these than you can their value in dirt. The trader makes money because he can set some sort of interest rate on it, or convieniance charge. like I said, to begin with he would have to stockpile a decent amount of both to start his endeavor, but after that, as long as he can for the most part handle the demand of whomever decides to trade in their paper money for dirt on a day to day basis, including those that find paper money through scavenging then he's set. He can adjust interest rates as he sees fit, and can manipulate the ecomnomy however he wants, just so long as there is never more of a demand for the physical item the money is based on than he can handle. he wouldn't even necessarily have to have as much of the item on hand as there is money in circulation, just enough for his day to day operation.

[Tehralph]

if someone wanted to become say, a banker here's how he would do it. he would hoard a single valuable item. something that every tribe would want and need. regardless if the item is still obtainable, if that item was just a pain to carry a lot of, or like dirt nobody wanted to dig up big holes in their land. he would say that 10 paper dollars equaled 1 dirt. He would then allow you to trade in dirt for paper dollars, or paper dollars for dirt. Now your paper dollars are are backed by something physical, because you know that even though on it's own, paper dollars are just paper, you can bring these paper dollars to this trader and receive their set value in dirt. other tribes know this as well, so they have no problem accepting these paper dollars because they are dirt certificates, and you can carry many more of these than you can their value in dirt. The trader makes money because he can set some sort of interest rate on it, or convieniance charge. like I said, to begin with he would have to stockpile a decent amount of both to start his endeavor, but after that, as long as he can for the most part handle the demand of whomever decides to trade in their paper money for dirt on a day to day basis, including those that find paper money through scavenging then he's set. He can adjust interest rates as he sees fit, and can manipulate the ecomnomy however he wants, just so long as there is never more of a demand for the physical item the money is based on than he can handle. he wouldn't even necessarily have to have as much of the item on hand as there is money in circulation, just enough for his day to day operation.

But heres the thing, once he has all that useless paper money, hes going to have to find someone who was running the same show as him to even make use of it. I cant really see that many people willing to waste their time enforcing such a system when anyone can easily go find someone else who is willing to trade in materials instead.

And he cant manipulate the market, he is 1 tribe, 1 small tribe, a man digging up dirt and demanding a useless comodity. Maybe some people just dont understand this, but money is worthless in an apocolypse. People want resources, because resources help them survive. Paper... does not.

[eightonefive]

ralph, you didn't understand a thing I said.

[Gamefreak]

I guess there is.

[Tehralph]

ralph, you didn't understand a thing I said.

No, I understood, you were implying a mental patient would be able to control the economy with dirt and paper. Makes perfect sense.

[sionide]

I guess there is.


Actually, the link you gave and what we are discussing is different, though it is on the same subject. The link you posted was a heated argument of the game enforcing a type of "global currency" in the game, and the other side not wanting it, arguing the relevancy and how it will be monitored/regulated.

This discussion is about speculating what kind of currency will exist in the game. If the barter system will prevail or if a "global currency" will come about and if so what it would be and how it would work. Essentially your forum link is already put to rest, because the game has not enforced a global monetary unit as currency (kind of hard to do in this type of game).

So there is a difference, and no one is flaming or getting that much off mark like the other thread.

[sionide]

paper does not represent gold in our current economy. we left the gold standard in 1913.

I do no know who you mean by "we," but I am going to guess you mean the US. And well, that statement is wrong. Yes, the US (as did the British) left the Gold Standard during World War I, but both countries went back to it after the war.

It wasn't completely dropped until 1971, when the US dollar was based on currency markets.

Honestly, your statement doesn't add anything to this discussion because it's completely irrelevant. This discussion is not on what the US dollar is worth in todays free market economy. It's about how currency came about, and how Xsyon currency will be worth. Maybe one day we will face a free market in game where the value of an abstract concept as money will be based purely on market value, but that is a long way off.

As money existed for thousands of years, in Xsyon, there is going to be a value attached to it on something real (i.e. nails, etc). Until then, we won't have to worry about bubbles bursting nor default mortgages.

[sionide]

Let's continue then :)

What I'm worried about is that if we use common stackable item used in crafting like nails or screws(and it has to be common if we want to use it like money; saw blade will be worth a lot of nails) someone(tribe or wealthy trader) will start to buy all the nails he can find. This will create huge demand on "nails" and raise their vaule insanely. Then he can buy all the rare items with it becouse they might reach simmilar value.

It's an absract scenario. It'll be hard to do that and even harder if we won't have global trading system, but it can happen and someone will probably try it.


Yes, it is an abstract scenario without a global trading system like you said, so we really won't need to worry about it.

But to indulge this senario, nails in this case would be hard to do, since nails are relatively plentiful. The arm of this tribe would have to be far reaching (again nearly impossible without a global trading system and fast travel), and more new nails can not turn up faster than this tribe could aquire them. Furthermore, the tribe would have to have a great deal of already obtained resourses to corner the market of nails, because as they are buying more nails, nails will be worth more and more so they will need to pay (trade) more for them at higher prices/items.

However, since it isn't hard to get say 100 nails in 1h, there will be a constant influx of nails to balance their intake and hence this scenario will not happen to nails. However, a type of this monopoly actually does exist, and most people don't know about it. Diamonds aren't a rare item (think about it, it's made from carbon, and carbon is one of the most plentiful elements on the planet). However, Da Beers, does exactly that. When a new diamond mine is found they will buy it out to keep diamonds rare. This is only possible, because of the global economy and fast travel.

On something harder to obtain, for example saws, this could possibily happen. Especially, when/if (I am guessing "when") deteriation of items occurs in game. Saws will become even rarer than they are now, and a tribe or groups of tribes could hoard all the saws and just sell the finished product (i.e. medium wooden handles, etc). This I could see happening, and medium wooden handles could be the currency, if and only if the leader of those tribes with the saw monopoly all agree to a set value.

Again, it will be interesting to see what will happen. I don't fear anything will happen to nails, because they are are plentiful and easy enough to find. The saw analogy on the other hand...could happen in the current state of the game (however, people could then just keep rerolling till they get chars with saws, so I guess that particular example will not work either, but the premise is still there).

[Tehralph]

Yes, it is an abstract scenario without a global trading system like you said, so we really won't need to worry about it.

But to indulge this senario, nails in this case would be hard to do, since nails are relatively plentiful. The arm of this tribe would have to be far reaching (again nearly impossible without a global trading system and fast travel), and more new nails can not turn up faster than this tribe could aquire them. Furthermore, the tribe would have to have a great deal of already obtained resourses to corner the market of nails, because as they are buying more nails, nails will be worth more and more so they will need to pay (trade) more for them at higher prices/items.

However, since it isn't hard to get say 100 nails in 1h, there will be a constant influx of nails to balance their intake and hence this scenario will not happen to nails. However, a type of this monopoly actually does exist, and most people don't know about it. Diamonds aren't a rare item (think about it, it's made from carbon, and carbon is one of the most plentiful elements on the planet). However, Da Beers, does exactly that. When a new diamond mine is found they will buy it out to keep diamonds rare. This is only possible, because of the global economy and fast travel.

On something harder to obtain, for example saws, this could possibily happen. Especially, when/if (I am guessing "when") deteriation of items occurs in game. Saws will become even rarer than they are now, and a tribe or groups of tribes could hoard all the saws and just sell the finished product (i.e. medium wooden handles, etc). This I could see happening, and medium wooden handles could be the currency, if and only if the leader of those tribes with the saw monopoly all agree to a set value.

Again, it will be interesting to see what will happen. I don't fear anything will happen to nails, because they are are plentiful and easy enough to find. The saw analogy on the other hand...could happen in the current state of the game (however, people could then just keep rerolling till they get chars with saws, so I guess that particular example will not work either, but the premise is still there).

I dont believe we will see saws becoming a entirely hoarded item, as the obtained method is quite random, and no single tribe can lock down all the scrap piles. Perhaps when mining comes in things like coal and diamonds MAY become a rare comodity, but not so controllable that only the top people have access to it.

[shadowlz]

No, I understood, you were implying a mental patient would be able to control the economy with dirt and paper. Makes perfect sense.

He was using dirt and paper as an example. He wouldnt stockpile dirt, he would stockpile something with a high base value, lets just say Resource A. Resource A is something a lot of people want and often would get you a lot of stuff in a trade window, but is bulky. Now the banker would also stockpile Resource B. B would be weightless or near weightless therefore easy to carry around in large quanities.

Once a ample amount of both A and B were gathered, he would spread the word that he buys B for A and buys A for B, People would now know that if someone drops 200 units of B in a trade window they can go get 10 units of A from the banker.

Set up like a real bank, store peoples A for them. So you would get their A and give them B to represent that they do infact own that many of A. But then why would they put any A in there when they can just store it themselves. So you would need to allow intrest to be gathered, which would be given in form of B. Now theres a reason to put A into the bank, because in the end youll end up with more if you save.

Now for the most part the only people caring about the banker are the people who need A to make stuff, so that group wants as much B as they can get. To everyone else B is just this magical worthless crap that gets them stuff from the crafters, and so they will value it.

Now where this falls flat is that, people can just dig up B and trade it in for the much more valuable A, therefore deflation would rise to insane levels and to the point where there is no more A at the bank, now the currency is worthless, and the banker is stuck with 2 million units of B which only sell to people who don't know its worthless yet. The only reason currency in real life works is because you cant dig it up in scrap heaps. Best way to counter that is to have a monoply on Resource B.


By the way, that 'group' I called crafters that value A would be your government. While the citizens would be the group that doesnt care why it works, it just gets them stuff. I dont think a single person could pull this off, it would need to be a large powerfull tribe I'm sure, and they would become the powerhouse tribe, and most likly the centre of trade.


If an powerful tribe was in on it you could offer services that require only manpower, for resource B. And in the end resource A would most likely be phased out and the base price on the currency would be set.

[blackice]

Since currency doesnt rot away it could become a permanent way to store value. Everything will start to rot away so it will prevent hoarding properly. Yes in a week or two you could make quite a few nails but since u can save money you could be very rich in the long run. Especially for large tribes bringing in alot.

[yoori]

I just got back home and I'm kinda drunk, just a warning.

Ok, my example from last post was extreme and unlikely. But I like responses, they take my extreme thinking to casual level.

But my point still stands single crafter with uber repcipe, can influence whole market with just bartering(to some point). If people will use one item to craft and use as money at the same time, they will have to choose if they want to keep them to buy something they want or if they will trade it to someone that needs it to craft.

If, on the other hand, we'll have enough of nails to craft and use as currency(event if someone decides to manipulate), won't they become our "grass" from previous posts?

With non craftable item as currency, speculating with prices of any craftable item will change only price of this single item, couse currency is independent from crafting.

Even if some one decides to sepculate with your tribes currency(and I'm guessing different tribes will have different currencies) it's won't change your local market much.

And well prepared tribe will be able to counter global consequences.

Why I'm saing this is that whatever item you'll choose as your currency you have to be prepared that some one will want to mess it up. Economical warfare will be very important for good tribes which can't be enemies with eachother.

[eightonefive]

He was using dirt and paper as an example. He wouldnt stockpile dirt, he would stockpile something with a high base value, lets just say Resource A. Resource A is something a lot of people want and often would get you a lot of stuff in a trade window, but is bulky. Now the banker would also stockpile Resource B. B would be weightless or near weightless therefore easy to carry around in large quanities.

Once a ample amount of both A and B were gathered, he would spread the word that he buys B for A and buys A for B, People would now know that if someone drops 200 units of B in a trade window they can go get 10 units of A from the banker.

Set up like a real bank, store peoples A for them. So you would get their A and give them B to represent that they do infact own that many of A. But then why would they put any A in there when they can just store it themselves. So you would need to allow intrest to be gathered, which would be given in form of B. Now theres a reason to put A into the bank, because in the end youll end up with more if you save.

Now for the most part the only people caring about the banker are the people who need A to make stuff, so that group wants as much B as they can get. To everyone else B is just this magical worthless crap that gets them stuff from the crafters, and so they will value it.

Now where this falls flat is that, people can just dig up B and trade it in for the much more valuable A, therefore deflation would rise to insane levels and to the point where there is no more A at the bank, now the currency is worthless, and the banker is stuck with 2 million units of B which only sell to people who don't know its worthless yet. The only reason currency in real life works is because you cant dig it up in scrap heaps. Best way to counter that is to have a monoply on Resource B.


By the way, that 'group' I called crafters that value A would be your government. While the citizens would be the group that doesnt care why it works, it just gets them stuff. I dont think a single person could pull this off, it would need to be a large powerfull tribe I'm sure, and they would become the powerhouse tribe, and most likly the centre of trade.


If an powerful tribe was in on it you could offer services that require only manpower, for resource B. And in the end resource A would most likely be phased out and the base price on the currency would be set.

I dont think your example is going to get through to him either so we both just wasted our time on a rudimentary economics lesson that falls on shallow head.

[Gamefreak]

No, there's definitely no flaming here.

/end sarcasm

[Tehralph]

I dont think your example is going to get through to him either so we both just wasted our time on a rudimentary economics lesson that falls on shallow head.

Take your pathetic fucking insults elsewhere. I dont dare dream of what such a cowardly cunt look like to draw such conclusion from mere discussion. (Edit: I guess your signature says it all) Perhaps you think highly of yourself because you jest of others intelligence, but no matter. I know who am I, and can only feel pity for those who make such false accusations.

[eightonefive]

I don't think highly of myself, just lowly of you. :P

[Gamefreak]

This is actually becoming amusing, keep squabbling please.

>=)

[eightonefive]

I'm done squabbling. I was out of line for insulting his intelligence. and for that I apologize. It's completely not worth it. He didn't understand what I was getting at though. perhaps with a cooler head he can go back and reread my post and comprehend what I was trying to say. I also tend to forget that for some people on the internet english isn't their first language, and I need to excercise more patience.

[Tehralph]

I'm done squabbling. I was out of line for insulting his intelligence. and for that I apologize. It's completely not worth it. He didn't understand what I was getting at though. perhaps with a cooler head he can go back and reread my post and comprehend what I was trying to say. I also tend to forget that for some people on the internet english isn't their first language, and I need to excercise more patience.

I definately understood what you were trying to say, but the amount of people and dedication it would take to accomplish something like that is SOO far fetched and ridiculous it shouldnt even be brought up in discussion about currency. Because as I said, it doesnt matter what we use as currency, someone can create a monopoly regardless, so saying a monopoly would be created if we used nails or screws instead of dollars is a weak arguing point on your side.

[sionide]

No, there's definitely no flaming here.

/end sarcasm

You jinxed it! :P

[eightonefive]

I definately understood what you were trying to say, but the amount of people and dedication it would take to accomplish something like that is SOO far fetched and ridiculous it shouldnt even be brought up in discussion about currency. Because as I said, it doesnt matter what we use as currency, someone can create a monopoly regardless, so saying a monopoly would be created if we used nails or screws instead of dollars is a weak arguing point on your side.

I said nothing about a monopoly if we used screws or nail instead. wtf are you talking about? does anyone read?