So... Macroing

[sudo]

Hello,
I'm a new player and am still learning the game. I did play Darkfall for quite some time and in my personal opinion what ruined the game for lots of people are players who macroed their skills with third-party programs all the way to the top and keep doing so even now, when it's illegal.

I'm wondering what Xsyon developers politics are on macroing and how do they plan to fight cheaters? I've been doing some fishing in the game and found it to be one of the activities that could be easily macroed, since the action isn't twitch-based and it's a simple clickfest each 5 seconds or so. With players being untouchable in their tribal areas the whole game might become a free macrofest for everybody who wants to do so. In some other post on about hiding on these forums there were some players who almost openly admitted that they macroed hiding up to 100 in one of the previous builds of the beta client. That means that it's already technically doable.

I'm really loving the game at the moment, but this whole macroing possibility really bothers me, because I've already seen one good game die because of it(yes, lots of people still play it but it's dead in my eyes, unless they wipe all the servers up and start doing something with the cheaters).

[Vadio]

Yes agree macro destroy game/and/experience

[Khalart]

Macroing is a big problem in Darkfall and ruined the game as you said. However I just hope DEVs will guard on that...

[BigCountry]

there are no static nodes like in darkfall though

its gonna be harder to macro skill ups in this game for sure

running/hiding yeah those are easy to macro but combat, foraging, salvaging, crafting etc will be harder.

not saying its impossible but i would not lose sleep over it yet
:D

[naughty]

macroing is very easy in xsyon because of these safezones everywhere :-)

[Vadio]

Yes but terraforming/fishing/running/hidden/swiming fill 2 - 3 bar XP (each one)
if your use Auto IT you can create complex macro(basic one bot)
remember times in df use auto it for auto loot/scan my screen and shoot :) and others stuffs to become competitve ( in time dont play with dhv )

[Ex0dUs101]

macroing is very easy in xsyon because of these safezones everywhere :-)

Riiiiiight because it really made a difference in darkfall where people macro just about everywhere.....lost count of the number of times ive killed people macroing there and it makes zero difference. Terrible argument.

Hoping the dev team set a solid rule from the get ago stating no macroing, and actively police it, I know id happily report anyone that did, and I know that in the more respectful tribes they already have rules set against it. I see it as exploiting, and there is a selection for that in the support section to report, so that makes me feel good at the very least :)

Youre never going to stop it all, but id like some sort of stance.

EDIT : Just to add, there is a line in the TOS regarding the use of 3rd party programs - You will not display inappropriate conduct while you have access to the game and its content. Such conduct includes but is not limited to: Use of third party software that would give you or anyone else an advantage of any form.

[Jadzia]

I've played a game which was fighting macroing by random events. Like if you fished for like 10-20 minutes a troll came out of the water and attacked you. Low level players had to run from it, high levels could easily killed it but if someone was afk the troll killed him in no time. In that game you dropped everything but 3 best items even in PVE death, so dieing for a river troll wasn't nice at all. Combine this with permanent stat/skill loss if dieing for a random event and you made macroing much harder.

[BigCountry]

macroers are companies best customers. sit back and think about it.
:D

long as they are not exploiting the game or intefering with someone elses gameplay they really are the ideal customer.
haha

sad but true.

[sudo]

I've played a game which was fighting macroing by random events.

That's a very interesting idea, Jadzia. It reminded me of FFXI fishing where you always had a chance to fish out a monster of some kind, depending on your fishing rod and water you are fishing in. Even though macroing in both FFXI and FFXIV (yes, I played both) is close to impossible due to fishing mechanics.

I think very simple fishing change would make it impossible to macro skills like fishing with simple non-tedious mini-games.
Check this video of Final Fantasy XIV fishing, for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9r0C_5XcRQ

[Ex0dUs101]

macroers are companies best customers. sit back and think about it.
:D

long as they are not exploiting the game or intefering with someone elses gameplay they really are the ideal customer.
haha

sad but true.

They are exploiting the game, and they are interfering with peoples gameplay.....not to mention taking server resources when gameservers dont usually plan for all players to be active 24/7, which hardcore macroers are. They do more harm than good to a company that doesn't actively police the issue, thats been seen time and time again in all mmo's.

[BigCountry]

Outside of games like EvE I would might have to agree I guess. But in EvE the mining bots are the perfect customer...because they just constantly pump more content into the sandbox lol

I can see your argument in a game like this. Somewhat.

[Ex0dUs101]

Outside of games like EvE I would might have to agree I guess. But in EvE the mining bots are the perfect customer...because they just constantly pump more content into the sandbox lol

I can see your argument in a game like this. Somewhat.

Even in EVE, they constantly drive down the prices of Ice and Hi-Sec Ores. Why do you think the players run Hulkageddon to upset macro's :)

Macro's can be, and are, very damaging to MMO's.

[Khalart]

I've played a game which was fighting macroing by random events. Like if you fished for like 10-20 minutes a troll came out of the water and attacked you. Low level players had to run from it, high levels could easily killed it but if someone was afk the troll killed him in no time. In that game you dropped everything but 3 best items even in PVE death, so dieing for a river troll wasn't nice at all. Combine this with permanent stat/skill loss if dieing for a random event and you made macroing much harder.

Very nice and funny idea...

[yoori]

As I said before we have hunger and thirst. You will have to eat and not eat too much otherwise it'll have negative effect on your stats. I guess, that might be main reason for people complaining about stat loss recently. If you add something like you can't craft when you're hungry, it would make macro'ing much harder.

[AlexTaldren]

I've played a game which was fighting macroing by random events. Like if you fished for like 10-20 minutes a troll came out of the water and attacked you. Low level players had to run from it, high levels could easily killed it but if someone was afk the troll killed him in no time. In that game you dropped everything but 3 best items even in PVE death, so dieing for a river troll wasn't nice at all. Combine this with permanent stat/skill loss if dieing for a random event and you made macroing much harder.

That's a good idea. Of course, Yoori has a good point when he mentions the energy/hunger/thirst/comfort system. Hopefully these gauges will make it difficult for macroing.

[Ex0dUs101]

I contacted support in regards to macro'ing and got the answer I was hoping for :)
Hope it will put other minds at rest to!


Hello Chris,

We have some built in checks to prevent the effectiveness of macros and will continue to add more. We do have a stance against macroing and will enforce as possible.

Thanks for your interest in Xsyon!
Xsyon Support Team

[sudo]

yoori: It's not hard to make a macro that presses fishing each 5 seconds and clicks a fish in your inventory each 10 minutes... More? You can stand in a water while fishing so adding a drink here and there won't ruin it as well. Sadly, the game mechanics are very macro-welcoming at the moment.

Chris: Thanks, that's actually great news. Lets hope that the developers are serious about this. As long as people will get banned or get any other SERIOUS penalties for using macros, it's gonna be all right. Sadly, rolling back somebody's hiding skill to 0 after he got it to 100 won't really mean that much for the same person...

[yoori]

yoori: It's not hard to make a macro that presses fishing each 5 seconds and clicks a fish in your inventory each 10 minutes... More? You can stand in a water while fishing so adding a drink here and there won't ruin it as well. Sadly, the game mechanics are very macro-welcoming at the moment.

Chris: Thanks, that's actually great news. Lets hope that the developers are serious about this. As long as people will get banned or get any other SERIOUS penalties for using macros, it's gonna be all right. Sadly, rolling back somebody's hiding skill to 0 after he got it to 100 won't really mean that much for the same person...

Sure but that will skill your fishing skill and eating too much will decrease your stats and make you fat. I'm not saying it will eliminate macroing it'll just make it harder.

[JCatano]

Yes but terraforming/fishing/running/hidden/swiming fill 2 - 3 bar XP (each one)
if your use Auto IT you can create complex macro(basic one bot)
remember times in df use auto it for auto loot/scan my screen and shoot :) and others stuffs to become competitve ( in time dont play with dhv )

At least the developers know who to monitor, now.

What was/is your name in DF?

[blackice]

macroers are companies best customers. sit back and think about it.
:D

long as they are not exploiting the game or intefering with someone elses gameplay they really are the ideal customer.
haha

sad but true.

You cant be for real. Macroing destroys games and the hard work people put in them. If i had the choice any sort of macro user would be banned ASAP! The only thing i can think of being marcroed is fishing. That means food, which should be something you always have to worry about, will become plentiful and cheap. It kinda kills the whole Survival thing.

[Vadio]

Dont play anymore :) and of course reveal my name for what? :)
but all big clan in darkfall use , is public after join

Explore deep in auto it code and see possibility (amazing ) but to games fucked some devs

i send my personal list macros program to block , dll - executables and others

[Vadio]

Possible /agree , but for now i wish one way to block macro forever ( fucked my df experience night to night 24/7 macro to become viable )
disable safe zone in future ( maybe 3 moth after release or more )

[JCatano]

Dont play anymore :) and of course reveal my name for what? :)
but all big clan in darkfall use , is public after join

Explore deep in auto it code and see possibility (amazing ) but to games fucked some devs

i send my personal list macros program to block , dll - executables and others

Yes, I know of the possibilities.

I guess we can trust you won't do the same here... *sarcasm*

[Vadio]

:) i want play , dont turn on my macro, and watch my char skilling up
send several program and dlls to jordi block to prevent possibility to run any macro

I said macro make DF dying
Bots in "Lineage II" same
i think have others case but dont like remember

[Ex0dUs101]

I'm going to macro every single skill I can to max and be untouchable in my tribe area until they fix this broken system.

For which you will no doubt be reported considering your glorious reputation, and should easily be caught and punished in whatever way the devs intend, But we all know you're trolling of course as per usual.

[Ex0dUs101]

Will there be repercussions for macroing? As far as I know it will be allowed.

p.s. Who are you?

Ive posted further up with a response from the dev team that macro'ing is not be allowed and they will be taking stance on it.

[Ex0dUs101]

What if it's 'attended' macroing? There is no way to tell. It's not cut and dry like you make it out to be.

Theres patterns to most macro's, especially those that go beyond normal play hours, and those that are more random, simple response tests from a GM can catch out.

Macro's arent simple to catch, i never said they were, but the dev team are planning a stance against them at least, more than we could say for DF at launch.

[JCatano]

:) i want play , dont turn on my macro, and watch my char skilling up
send several program and dlls to jordi block to prevent possibility to run any macro

I said macro make DF dying
Bots in "Lineage II" same
i think have others case but dont like remember

I'm talking about the pixel detection you said that you used. ;)

[sionide]

The energy, comfort, food/drink system is good. I think there also might be a non-movement thing in place too. I read a Guide last night in global suggesting to move after X minutes to someone not skilling up or catching fish while fishing.

It's hard to really enforce non-macro-ing because people could actually be there doing it. I've stood in one place and fished for like 30 mins. Last night I saved a bunch of mats and tried to bang out leatherworking. I stood in one place and started to realize I wasn't skilling up or learning new crafts after a while, which was a bit fustrating. I probably could have just moved a bit; but making a macro to move after X mins is very easy to do.

Some things will be harder to macro like resource gathering and crafting, unlike swimming, running, and jumping unless distance is also required (people macro these into walls/corners).

[Melkrow]

I've only watched the videos so far (haven't had a chance to log in yet because of the patching... had to leave for work before it was done), but I already see a MOTHERLOAD of things that you can macro in Xsyon. Don't be naive people, this game will be macroed, mark my words, unless people get perma banned for macroing. Having safe zones will further encourage and provide incentives to macro.

[Kinslayer]

I've played a game which was fighting macroing by random events. Like if you fished for like 10-20 minutes a troll came out of the water and attacked you. Low level players had to run from it, high levels could easily killed it but if someone was afk the troll killed him in no time. In that game you dropped everything but 3 best items even in PVE death, so dieing for a river troll wasn't nice at all. Combine this with permanent stat/skill loss if dieing for a random event and you made macroing much harder.
Runescape ftw :)

[Jadzia]

Runescape ftw :)
Wasn't it fun ;)

[Kinslayer]

Wasn't it fun ;)
I spent way too many hours in that game, Im amazed Im still married, lol. That was my first MMO.

[Jadzia]

I spent way too many hours in that game, Im amazed Im still married, lol. That was my first MMO.

Heheh. It definitely had a bad effect on relationships :p Was my first MMO too... sweet old times :)

[VeryWiiTee]

That means that it's already technically doable.


Of course it is..
All you'd need is a mouse clicker.. But where is the fun in that :)?.. You haven't achieved anything.. And you certainly won't get an endorphine kick.

[sudo]

But where is the fun in that :)

Sadly, as Darkfall proves, there is a very big percentage of players who don't agree with us on this one.

I don't think that there is a 100% cure from macroers. The only known solution is harsh punishment as soon as possible. It's gonna be quite hard and time-consuming to find those cheaters due to a tiny development team, though.

Macroing is like a virus, the more players keep doing it unpunished, the more "healthy" players will join them in their sickened wrong ways of playing.

Lets all pray to yet unrevealed to us Xsyon gods that cheaters and macroers will get their punishment soon and harsh :rolleyes:

[Vandali]

It would be nice to have some info on macro'ing, like whats the punishment, is there skill cap to daily gains, is attended macro'ing allowed, just basic info.

I'm in favour of a max skill/stat gain in a day based on an average users gaming time, this would help in some part to stop those who are planning to macro out of the gates, while devs are still working hard on other aspects of the game. Theres nothing worse than facing someone whose already maxed out some skills, while i'm still pulling my socks up, despite playing actively for the same amount of time.

[Niburu]

When i read things like
That means that it's already technically doable.
It remind me of old ladies who never played a PC game talking about not allowing computer games. Macroing simulates a Button hit, that is nothing that you couldn't do. You can't forbid attended macroing seriously use your brain because that would also mean you have to forbid pressing a key. CHEATING is doing things that are not possible within the game mechanics, flying around, auto aim, wall hack and what not.
If this game is well balanced a macroed person will have a maxxed char after 2-3 weeks and a "played" char after 2 month. Darkfall was not ruined by macroes but by crazy amount of time that you need to get everything you have to use and without some sort of character diversity

[Ex0dUs101]

It would be nice to have some info on macro'ing, like whats the punishment, is there skill cap to daily gains, is attended macro'ing allowed, just basic info.

From speaking to support, it was made clear that no software of any kind that can offer any advantage was allowed under any circumstances. They TOS was also quoted stating the same.

Any questions seem to be answered quickly from the submission on the FAQ page, been a great help and peace of mind for me :)

[sudo]

You can't forbid attended macroing seriously use your brain because that would also mean you have to forbid pressing a key. CHEATING is doing things that are not possible within the game mechanics, flying around, auto aim, wall hack and what not.

I followed your advice and used my brain. It told me that you were one of the cheaters in Darkfall and you'll try doing so in Xsyon as well. I'm sorry to be the first one to tell you so, buy your definition of cheating is wrong.
Guess what, while pushing a fishing skill each 5 seconds for 10 hours is doable in game, it's still cheating.

From ToS:
Use of third party software that would give you or anyone else an advantage of any form.
.
.
.
Failure to follow these rules will result in temporary or permanent ban from Xsyon.

[Niburu]

I followed your advice and used my brain. It told me that you were one of the cheaters in Darkfall and you'll try doing so in Xsyon as well. I'm sorry to be the first one to tell you so, buy your definition of cheating is wrong.
Guess what, while pushing a fishing skill each 5 seconds for 10 hours is doable in game, it's still cheating.

From ToS:
Use of third party software that would give you or anyone else an advantage of any form.
.
.
.
Failure to follow these rules will result in temporary or permanent ban from Xsyon.

So which part of
you can't forbid attended macroing was not understandable for you ?

Simply stop posting if you have no clue...

[sudo]

So which part of was not understandable for you ?

Simply stop posting if you have no clue...

Which part of "Use of third party software" was not understandable for you, Niburu?
Please explain to me how exactly are you planning to practice attended macroing without using third-party software and not breaking ToS?

[Niburu]

Which part of "Use of third party software" was not understandable for you, Niburu?
Please explain to me how exactly are you planning to practice attended macroing without using third-party software and not breaking ToS?

You seriously wanne tell me that pressing a button is a adventage over others :)

By your definition even TeamsSpeak is forbidden 3th party program. Because you can communicate with others via voice which is an adventage.

What this little text means is that any use of 3th party program that gives you any adventage like faster meele swings, more dmg, teleport, more loot, invisible walls is forbiden because others can't do that....pressing a button while AFK falls also under it because you can't do it....Pressing a button while at the PC not ^^ You trying to not look stuipid atm but if you really have no clue you should stop by now.

As i already said in a game with skill cap and well balanced character development, macros don't matter. In a grind game without character specialization like darkfall it hurt alot but thats the fault of the Dev's...simple

[Vandali]

From speaking to support, it was made clear that no software of any kind that can offer any advantage was allowed under any circumstances. They TOS was also quoted stating the same.

Any questions seem to be answered quickly from the submission on the FAQ page, been a great help and peace of mind for me :)

I'm glad your easily pleased, but those TOS's are the same for every game, i'd like to know how strict Xyson plans on being with such matters, since most games are lax at best with dealing with those who break the TOS. ;)

[sudo]

@Niburu
You might be right there, Niburu, but none of this has been proved so far. I, for one, haven't heard of a single self-respecting mmorpg that would allow attended macroing of any of it's in-game features. Darkfall doesn't count, because, I'm quite sure, most of us will agree, that allowing macroing for a whole year and then deciding that it's illegal is far from "normal".

Anyways, I guess the right thing to do would be to direct this question to the game officials and ask for their response. Maybe a ticket would do the trick :)

[Niburu]

@Niburu
You might be right there, Niburu, but none of this has been proved so far. I, for one, haven't heard of a single self-respecting mmorpg that would allow attended macroing of any of it's in-game features. Darkfall doesn't count, because, I'm quite sure, most of us will agree, that allowing macroing for a whole year and then deciding that it's illegal is far from "normal".

Anyways, I guess the right thing to do would be to direct this question to the game officials and ask for their response. Maybe a ticket would do the trick :)

Yes. A ticket would help BUT you can't see if someone is hitting a button with his fingers or with a program EVERY skillbased MMO had macroing it simply because of how the mechanic works. Skill up while doing it. And i wouldn't call UO not selfrespecting same goes for others

[JCatano]

@Niburu
You might be right there, Niburu, but none of this has been proved so far. I, for one, haven't heard of a single self-respecting mmorpg that would allow attended macroing of any of it's in-game features. Darkfall doesn't count, because, I'm quite sure, most of us will agree, that allowing macroing for a whole year and then deciding that it's illegal is far from "normal".

Anyways, I guess the right thing to do would be to direct this question to the game officials and ask for their response. Maybe a ticket would do the trick :)

SWG had an ingame macro mechanic. RIFT does, too.

[Ex0dUs101]

I'm glad your easily pleased, but those TOS's are the same for every game, i'd like to know how strict Xyson plans on being with such matters, since most games are lax at best with dealing with those who break the TOS. ;)

Ive already posted earlier in the thread with another response from the team that they have plans, and measures already in place to deal with Macro's.

Im far from easily pleased, ive just already asked and found out what I needed to and was suggesting you do the same if you need peace of mind :)

[sudo]

SWG had an ingame macro mechanic. RIFT does, too.

I'm not talking about
/cast poop
/cast wipe
macros that exist in all mmorpgs, obviously.

I'm talking abot "press 5; sleep 100; loop;"

[Vandali]

Ive already posted earlier in the thread with another response from the team that they have plans, and measures already in place to deal with Macro's.

I've sent in a ticket asking for a bit more info, so hopefully there will be a bit more clarification on the issue.

Normally i'd expect a representative to jump on a thread like this to clarify their position. At present it could be misconstrued by some players as a green light to macro with no official response to the issue, and as we all know if you give an mmo player an inch, they will take a mile.

[Jadzia]

Yes. A ticket would help BUT you can't see if someone is hitting a button with his fingers or with a program EVERY skillbased MMO had macroing it simply because of how the mechanic works. Skill up while doing it. And i wouldn't call UO not selfrespecting same goes for others

It is easy to see if its a human who keep pressing keys or a macro. A human can never press keys in say every 5 seconds...a macro is always very accurate thats why it can be caught with the proper mechanics.

[sionide]

It is easy to see if its a human who keep pressing keys or a macro. A human can never press keys in say every 5 seconds...a macro is always very accurate thats why it can be caught with the proper mechanics.

Well if that is the mechanics to "catch" the macro, then people would have random times for the key press...they are quite advanced and really hard to detect.

I am not sure but after you craft and learn a new item you notice how the craft window resets to the top and the item you have been crafted isn't in the craft window anymore? It's really fustrating (especially with no scroll bar and the slow arrow keys), but I am wondering if that is an anti-macro "feature" at this point.

Some have suggested after a random time of X (like 30 mins) something happens that requires human interaction like clicking on the right answer to an addition question or somethig like a picture with a number in it. The problem with that is that it breaks away from the immersion of the game.

Regardless, I hope they do figure out a way to stop macros...everyone who has played DF knows end result if not properly addressed.

[FPrime]

If this game is well balanced a macroed person will have a maxxed char after 2-3 weeks and a "played" char after 2 month.

And you don't see that as a problem?