Catering to one over another ?

[tredo]

What's going in before the final wipe?

As much as possible! At the moment we are focused on:
- Crafting revisions.
- Tribe placement corrections.
- Differences between Tribes and Homesteads (single player totems).
- Revised and safe starting locations.
- Unstuck command.
- Terraforming exploit fixes.


For the first few days after the final wipe, only Tribes of 10 members will be able to place totems. I may lower this number, based on current tribe sizes after I examine the database.

After a few days, solo players will be able to claim Homesteads.

Why would you limit the beginning for solo players like this?

I have paid my preorder just like EVERYONE else has, as a matter of fact there are a lot of solo players that have been here since you turned on the servers and to find out a week before the prelude you are telling us we can't play like everyone else?

In my opinion this is a crappy way to treat the solo players!!!

[parkezu]

100% agree. This is crap - I honestly don't understand what the problem with solo players are.

[pilok]

Why would you limit the beginning for solo players like this?

I have paid my preorder just like EVERYONE else has, as a matter of fact there are a lot of solo players that have been here since you turned on the servers and to find out a week before the prelude you are telling us we can't play like everyone else?

In my opinion this is a crappy way to treat the solo players!!!

This should not happen.
I pre-ordered with the intention to play solo and i do not like what i read here.

If this is done, we do get those days added to our account?

[tredo]

This should not happen.
I pre-ordered with the intention to play solo and i do not like what i read here.

If this is done, we do get those days added to our account?

I don't want the days added to my account, I want to start the same time everyone else does, with the ability to place a homestead as I have been planning for the last 3 months after the desolve of my tribe.

[Sobez]

Also what about smaller tribes huh? Why cant we start out on day one as well? Im currently part of a three person tribe and we like are small size :( Your telling me if we dont find 7 more people we cant start after final wipe?

[Vandali]

I think it makes sense that tribes of 10+ get prime locations, rather than soloists blocking large area's.

[tredo]

I think it makes sense that tribes of 10+ get prime locations, rather than soloists blocking large area's.

So reduce the size of a homestead... simple solution!!

[Jasdemi]

I think it makes sense that tribes of 10+ get prime locations, rather than soloists blocking large area's.
This.

Stop complaining now or do you want me to explain what a TRIBE is?

[Phayz]

This is not really a fair practice, I am not looking to steal someones location but i do intend to play solo and should the same starting ability as everyone else. If the solo players cannot place a totem for their hopmestead, they / we have nothing to keep us safe

[Sobez]

This.

Stop complaining now or do you want me to explain what a TRIBE is?

I think he fully understands whats a tribe is......no need to be smart :/ Hes just simply pointing out that "Why cant we all start after final wipe? We just wanna build and do are own thing!"

[Sobez]

This is not really a fair practice, I am not looking to steal someones location but i do intend to play solo and should the same starting ability as everyone else. If the solo players cannot place a totem for their hopmestead, they / we have nothing to keep us safe

Also adding on to this, This game is built off of creating a world with others, so shouldn't everyone have the same chance? Not a select few or have a bunch of friends or more members?

[tredo]

This is not really a fair practice, I am not looking to steal someones location but i do intend to play solo and should the same starting ability as everyone else. If the solo players cannot place a totem for their hopmestead, they / we have nothing to keep us safe

Completely my point, so for a "few" days solo players have to run around and hide or don't play at all in order to keep from getting killed and looted so that when we can place a "homestead" totem for safety, by then we have no tools or anything to work with.

[Tehralph]

ITT: Solo players that think the world belongs to them.

[tredo]

Should safe zones be removed for Prelude?Voters 126.
Yes 25.40%
No 74.60%

By taking away the ability of a solo player to place a totem you did just this!! You removed the safe zones for solo players, and clearly the community thinks this is a bad idea!



ITT: Solo players that think the world belongs to them.

Because solo players paid the same amount of money as everyone else, solo players should have the same abilities at the start of prelude as everyone else, this somehow makes them think the world belongs to them? How is this giving solo players an unfair advantage? How is this giving solo players anything other then the same thing everyone else gets? Why does this make the world belong to them?

[zeus3715]

Completely my point, so for a "few" days solo players have to run around and hide or don't play at all in order to keep from getting killed and looted so that when we can place a "homestead" totem for safety, by then we have no tools or anything to work with.

Its not supposed to be easy as a solo player in the first place and if you dont like sandbox PvP then play a different game. (Its not like EVERY player is going to gank you anyways.)

There are also plenty of ways to get around it. You have bins that you can drop and nobody can go in cept you, multiple ways to get tools and there are plenty of junkpiles in the mountains that I never see anybody at or are pretty damn hidden.

And if you die and get looted, whats stopping you from killing somebody else and taking their tools?

Also safe-zones were supposed to be removed later in the game anyways.
(Although they may change their mind, ive seen a lot of debate about it.)

The only thing you cant do at the start is terraform and build, which I agree is a major downer.

[Marcus]

Why is it, game designers decide to make announcements such as this 5 days before launch?

As for those saying solo players think the world belongs to them, this is a sandbox MMO, what happened to playing the way we wanted? The game/world is your sandbox, but you have to wait till those guys get set up first? bleh..

[Sobez]

ITT: Solo players that think the world belongs to them.

Example of somthing being a troll and should be shot in the face...


Its not supposed to be easy as a solo player in the first place and if you dont like sandbox PvP then play a different game.

There are also plenty of ways to get around it. You have bins that you can drop and nobody can go in cept you, multiple ways to get tools and there are plenty of junkpiles in the mountains that I never see anybody at or are pretty damn hidden.

And if you die and get looted, whats stopping you from killing somebody else and taking their tools?

Also safe-zones were supposed to be removed later in the game anyways.
(Although they may change their mind, ive seen a lot of debate about it.)

The only thing you cant do at the start is terraform and build, which I agree is a major downer.

Example of someone giving a good answer and making the opposite side of this discussion not seem like a bunch of annoying trolls. Thank you zeus :)

[pilok]

Its not supposed to be easy as a solo player in the first place and if you dont like sandbox PvP then play a different game.



But this way they make it much easier for tribes and it was already easier for tribes.
What is said before, make the area that a solo player can claim much smaller than for tribes.

I really cannot believe that they will go through with this idea, maybe they think this is a good way to force people to join a tribe.

[Robhood]

If solo play is screwed, I may be out. I enjoy playing with a couple of close friends. Don't force me to get in a bigger group just t be able to have a safe zone and build structures.

[tredo]

Its not supposed to be easy as a solo player in the first place and if you dont like sandbox PvP then play a different game. (Its not like EVERY player is going to gank you anyways.)

There are also plenty of ways to get around it. You have bins that you can drop and nobody can go in cept you, multiple ways to get tools and there are plenty of junkpiles in the mountains that I never see anybody at or are pretty damn hidden.

And if you die and get looted, whats stopping you from killing somebody else and taking their tools?

Also safe-zones were supposed to be removed later in the game anyways.
(Although they may change their mind, ive seen a lot of debate about it.)

The only thing you cant do at the start is terraform and build, which I agree is a major downer.

One of the things I have enjoyed the most in the game is the ability to build my "own" spot in the world... do you own a home in RL? Know what it feels like to have a place to call home, to do with as you want? So this isn't RL but I still enjoy my own spot in the game to do with as I want. So instead, I am being told I have to run and hide in the mountains and come back after the world is well underway. I have to then search and find a small place to call home, and begin my life after everyone else has already been into it for a few days, even though I paid my dues, and have done as much as the next guy, and for that I get a big fat, "you can't do what you want in my sandbox till I say you can!"

[zeus3715]

But this way they make it much easier for tribes and it was already easier for tribes.
What is said before, make the area that a solo player can claim much smaller than for tribes.

I really cannot believe that they will go through with this idea, maybe they think this is a good way to force people to join a tribe.

I agree with that, smaller tribe zones would be nice but if you make a single person tribe it reserves a 50 tribe slot for the location, but how can you tell that tribe is going to be a solo tribe or a tribe thats just starting out?

Homesteads are the answer but sadly they aren't in atm.

Personally I would delay Prelude until they finish Homesteads.

And I would scrap the second server Idea too.
(It is a lot easier to add another server after a week or two than find out the pop is too low and have to merge servers down the road,)


One of the things I have enjoyed the most in the game is the ability to build my "own" spot in the world... do you own a home in RL? Know what it feels like to have a place to call home, to do with as you want? So this isn't RL but I still enjoy my own spot in the game to do with as I want. So instead, I am being told I have to run and hide in the mountains and come back after the world is well underway. I have to then search and find a small place to call home, and begin my life after everyone else has already been into it for a few days, even though I paid my dues, and have done as much as the next guy, and for that I get a big fat, "you can't do what you want in my sandbox till I say you can!"

Hypothetically, lets say you take a nice location along side the beach. You manage to log in first and grab it. However a 20 person tribe that was going to take the spot because they need a spot with a larger size to be able to sustain their numbers. Is it fair that one person can cockblock a tribe thats 20x bigger than his own just because he logged in first?

What will happen at prelude if they allow single person tribes, is that the bigger tribes will remember you took the spot from them. And then they will gank, grief and camp you.

It is a lot safer to separate the big tribes from the solo players. And it is a lot smarter to cater the bigger groups at first than the solo players.

By making it so you single tribes cant take land at the start they cut down on massive tribes griefing and ganking solo players.

Tbh, im going to guess that homesteads will be added a day after or two days after the start.

[Tehralph]

One of the things I have enjoyed the most in the game is the ability to build my "own" spot in the world... do you own a home in RL? Know what it feels like to have a place to call home, to do with as you want? So this isn't RL but I still enjoy my own spot in the game to do with as I want. So instead, I am being told I have to run and hide in the mountains and come back after the world is well underway. I have to then search and find a small place to call home, and begin my life after everyone else has already been into it for a few days, even though I paid my dues, and have done as much as the next guy, and for that I get a big fat, "you can't do what you want in my sandbox till I say you can!"

Yes, I live in a private owned home, but I do not hold exclusive rights to the land it is on or around, the county does, and then the state, and then the country. So you could join a tribe/town/city and have a little plot of land just for you to build on, like normal citizens, but if you want to control the land, form a body of government large enough to seize it. And is that not the way it would work in RL? The game is trying to be realistic, and realisticly, safety comes in numbers.

[tredo]

I agree with that, smaller tribe zones would be nice but if you make a single person tribe it reserves a 50 tribe slot for the location, but how can you tell that tribe is going to be a solo tribe or a tribe thats just starting out?

Homesteads are the answer but sadly they aren't in atm.

Personally I would delay Prelude until they finish Homesteads.

And I would scrap the second server Idea too.
(It is a lot easier to add another server after a week or two than find out the pop is too low and have to merge servers down the road,)

yeah, that's what I mean, make the homestead a smaller area, let the solo players begin at the same time, and have the ability to place a totem for a homestead but maybe cut the size to 2/3 of a full tribal totem.

[bwirth1999]

Its not supposed to be easy as a solo player in the first place and if you dont like sandbox PvP then play a different game. (Its not like EVERY player is going to gank you anyways.)

There are also plenty of ways to get around it. You have bins that you can drop and nobody can go in cept you, multiple ways to get tools and there are plenty of junkpiles in the mountains that I never see anybody at or are pretty damn hidden.

And if you die and get looted, whats stopping you from killing somebody else and taking their tools?

Also safe-zones were supposed to be removed later in the game anyways.
(Although they may change their mind, ive seen a lot of debate about it.)

The only thing you cant do at the start is terraform and build, which I agree is a major downer.



This is NOT a sandbox PvP game. This is a sandbox world building game with a hint of open world PvP when necessary. Don't confuse the 2. I would say in response to you're comment... if you don't like cooperation and building a world then go find yourself another game to play where they just PvP... Like Earthrise.... but good luck with that abortion.

[Tehralph]

yeah, that's what I mean, make the homestead a smaller area, let the solo players begin at the same time, and have the ability to place a totem for a homestead but maybe cut the size to 2/3 of a full tribal totem.

Or 1/10 of a full tribal totem. Seems fair considering they are only 1 person of the 50 it takes to fill out the tribal maximum...

[tredo]

Or 1/10 of a full tribal totem. Seems fair considering they are only 1 person of the 50 it takes to fill out the tribal maximum...

1/10?

Tribal totem = what 100m across? so 1/10 of that would be 10m across, so thats 4 stone walls in a square end to end, not even enough room for 1 metal tent. Just so you know!

[Tehralph]

1/10?

Tribal totem = what 100m across? so 1/10 of that would be 10m across, so thats 4 stone walls in a square end to end, not even enough room for 1 metal tent. Just so you know!

No, if I recall correctly its 125m in all directions for a max tribe, so 250m across. 1/10 that is 25m across for 1 person. Whereas in a tribe thats only 5m per person at maximum...

[zeus3715]

This is NOT a sandbox PvP game. This is a sandbox world building game with a hint of open world PvP when necessary. Don't confuse the 2. I would say in response to you're comment... if you don't like cooperation and building a world then go find yourself another game to play where they just PvP... Like Earthrise.... but good luck with that abortion.


Learn to read, kid.

I never said that this was a sandbox PVP game.

I said that if you dont like sandbox PVP then leave this game.

I never was talking about the "game" I was merely talking about an element in the game.

Back under your bridge troll.

[tredo]

Hypothetically, lets say you take a nice location along side the beach. You manage to log in first and grab it. However a 20 person tribe that was going to take the spot because they need a spot with a larger size to be able to sustain their numbers. Is it fair that one person can cockblock a tribe thats 20x bigger than his own just because he logged in first?

How is this any different then if say Hopi gets to the spot that DHoV is wanting? The same thing will happen! So it's still whoever logs in first, can build the numbers and claim the land. However, if Hopi is not a warring tribe, DHoV is just SOL! Nothing they can do about it till the time comes, that "when" wars can be started, and we all know its not the main tribal area up for grabs, its the sub-totems that will be war'd over. Your point is valid and I agree but there is no difference in a solo player take a spot or a larger group taking that spot.

[zeus3715]

How is this any different then if say Hopi gets to the spot that DHoV is wanting? The same thing will happen! So it's still whoever logs in first, can build the numbers and claim the land. However, if Hopi is not a warring tribe, DHoV is just SOL! Nothing they can do about it till the time comes, that "when" wars can be started, and we all know its not the main tribal area up for grabs, its the sub-totems that will be war'd over. Your point is valid and I agree but there is no difference in a solo player take a spot or a larger group taking that spot.

The difference is that if DHoV and Hopi attacked each other they both would have a chance a beating the other unlike a solo tribe.

And who says that DHoV or Hopi don't have any friends they can call on for help?

Also just because Hopi is not a warring tribes does not mean they are weak.

(Im not saying they have alliances tho, I just used them as an example)

Also. if a solo player took my tribes land.

I would cut down and destroy the wood of every tree in the area.
I would then camp the junk piles for a bit.
If I killed him I would destroy everything he had.

Just because he took my area.

We could completely skip this if we were able to take the area first.

[tredo]

No, if I recall correctly its 125m in all directions for a max tribe, so 250m across. 1/10 that is 25m across for 1 person. Whereas in a tribe thats only 5m per person at maximum...


Just tested in game, I have a 1 man tribe and the distance from totem to side is 50m, so that is 100m across so 100m x 3.14 is 314 square meters of ownership for a solo player. 250m across (as you suggest is for a full tribe) x 3.14 is roughly 852 square meters of ownership so 314m / 852m is roughly 1/3 the size of play area. This is as it stands now in game, which I agree is a huge area for one person. You could cut this in half and give a solo player tons of room. Now this does not take into account growing that homestead. What if my son wants to start playing, my buddy down the street, and after a while I start to build a number of people that I want to play with. And decide to get a small village going, where does this fit into this whole thing. Why can I not have an area like everyone else, in the likelihood that I might be joined by others down the road?

A solution might be, that a homestead can NOT be converted to a town or village or have more then 3 members.

[tredo]

Also. if a solo player took my tribes land.

I would cut down and destroy the wood of every tree in the area.
I would then camp the junk piles for a bit.
If I killed him I would destroy everything he had.

Just because he took my area.

We could completely skip this if we were able to take the area first.

AGREE 100% if a solo player goes out and stakes claim in the middle of a prime, flat, well suited for a larger tribe area, that solo player deserves EVERYTHING you could do to that person. I am not asking for anything like that, I am that player, much like a lot of the other solo players that are looking for that tucked away, out of sight, nice little niche areas to play a game we have been waiting for. That's the way we enjoy the game, why punish a player because they play the game differently then anyone else?

[taurus1877]

Just tested in game, I have a 1 man tribe and the distance from totem to side is 50m, so that is 100m across so 100m x 3.14 is 314 square meters of ownership for a solo player. 250m across (as you suggest is for a full tribe) x 3.14 is roughly 852 square meters of ownership so 314m / 852m is roughly 1/3 the size of play area. Now this does not take into account growing that homestead. What if my son wants to start playing, my buddy down the street, and after a while I start to build a number of people that I want to play with. And decide to get a small village going, where does this fit into this whole thing. Why can I not have an area like everyone else, in the likelihood that I might be joined by others down the road?

This is my concern as well. Lets say opening day I have a group of 3, but have another 7 or so waiting. I will not beable to launch our tribal area until all 10 are confirmed?

[zeus3715]

Just tested in game, I have a 1 man tribe and the distance from totem to side is 50m, so that is 100m across so 100m x 3.14 is 314 square meters of ownership for a solo player. 250m across (as you suggest is for a full tribe) x 3.14 is roughly 852 square meters of ownership so 314m / 852m is roughly 1/3 the size of play area. This is as it stands now in game, which I agree is a huge area for one person. You could cut this in half and give a solo player tons of room. Now this does not take into account growing that homestead. What if my son wants to start playing, my buddy down the street, and after a while I start to build a number of people that I want to play with. And decide to get a small village going, where does this fit into this whole thing. Why can I not have an area like everyone else, in the likelihood that I might be joined by others down the road?

Thats generally the problem.

I dont think I know enough about Homesteads to answer that.

Towns are created by having 10+ people, maybe Homesteads allow for 1-10 players.

And if you decide to make a town they have said that they are going to expand the land so you will have chances later down the road to grab more land.

I think a lot of these worries are baseless because we do not have an in-depth explanation of the limits of a homestead.

Their definition of solo to the devs could be different than what we think.

[tredo]

Thats generally the problem.

I dont think I know enough about Homesteads to answer that.

Towns are created by having 10+ people, maybe Homesteads allow for 1-10 players.

And if you decide to make a town they have said that they are going to expand the land so you will have chances later down the road to grab more land.

I think a lot of these worries are baseless because we do not have an in-depth explanation of the limits of a homestead.

Their definition of solo could be different than what we think.

I think there are some give and takes for homesteads and for solo players or tribes with less then 10 people that can be decided upon that would still give these players the chance to stake a claim of land on day 1 of prelude just like everyone else.



What's going in before the final wipe?

As much as possible! At the moment we are focused on:
- Crafting revisions.
- Tribe placement corrections.
- Differences between Tribes and Homesteads (single player totems).
- Revised and safe starting locations.
- Unstuck command.
- Terraforming exploit fixes.

For the first few days after the final wipe, only Tribes of 10 members will be able to place totems. I may lower this number, based on current tribe sizes after I examine the database.

After a few days, solo players will be able to claim Homesteads.

Why even put homesteads in the game before final wipe if you don't intend to use them till after prelude starts? Why not base lowing the number on how many players aren't in a tribe at all?

[vorg]

This was a really bad move. We shouldn't need 10 people to make a tribe. There will only be 3-4 of us playing as a group, So we can't have a tribe? One of the players is still trying to get the money together, so he may not be able to join us on start day. So we have to be handicaped? In most games I've played it's very hard to get 10 people together in a single town/village/whatever.

Plus, those of you crying about space in the game, He's talking about a euro server and a pvp server. Likely he would then need both a US and a euro pvp server to make the euro people happy. That's spreading the player base across 4 server. And still require 10???

He's going to need to activate multi-chars/account and allow players to bring in those alts to pump up the tribe size.

[zeus3715]

Why even put them in the game before final wipe if you don't intend to use them till after prelude starts?

Testing purposes.
(I may have not understood what "them" was used to define in your comment so I assumed the list)

There is also still time for them to add the things on the list before the wipe.

[tredo]

Testing purposes.
Not everything on that list is in the game yet too.

Wont have enough solo players left to test it! Solo playing is a major pull to the game for some... take that out at launch and there goes your solo group!

[sionide]

I think 10 might be too excessive, perhaps like 4-5 people (I am not biased, I am in a tribe of 15 people).

I know people who by chance have 2 accounts (maybe their friend bought the game and doesn't like it anymore). They could really screw up other tribes by looking where they are and then placing a one person tribe in their location come launch. I also see so many abandoned tribes. Someone tries the game, creates a tribe, doesn't like it and that's it. It's there for his/her 2 month subscription.

Walking around last night with my guy, I saw so many fires and tribes. Like 2 days ago, it was pretty open and not many tribes, in the last 2 days I am not sure how much space if even left that isn't on tribal lands. It's really not that realistic to have so many tribes and so much land use already claimed.

Also, I am not sure how the tribal safe zones are, but I could see a one person tribe (or alt) lay claim to a junk pile and just attack anyone that enters it, just to be a dick. This rule stops a lot of abuse, but hurts the people that actually just want to play the game as a solo tribe.

[Boojie]

gutted, I have been soloing, and love it. Now this places me at a distinct disadvantage for however many days is decided on. Maybe I won't log in until homesteads are in place, as I can't see the point in not having somewhere to call 'home', even if it is nothing much to look at.
Bigger tribes are happy with open spaces etc., I like being tucked out of the way, doing my own thing, very disappointed with this.

Not into euro server either, even though I'm from uk, but hey, I guess I can see logic in that.

[tredo]

This was a really bad move. We shouldn't need 10 people to make a tribe. There will only be 3-4 of us playing as a group, So we can't have a tribe? One of the players is still trying to get the money together, so he may not be able to join us on start day. So we have to be handicaped? In most games I've played it's very hard to get 10 people together in a single town/village/whatever.

Plus, those of you crying about space in the game, He's talking about a euro server and a pvp server. Likely he would then need both a US and a euro pvp server to make the euro people happy. That's spreading the player base across 4 server. And still require 10???

He's going to need to activate multi-chars/account and allow players to bring in those alts to pump up the tribe size.

Ok so a solo player can't place a totem, at least change the number of required players to just 2 in a tribe to place a totem, that way not all 10 players have to log in to get a tribal land started. That would also give solo players the chance to "happen" across someone in the wilds and say " wanna through down a tent here, and I will put mine over there for now?" You have players from across the world, yet they all need to be logged in to join the tribe before they can place their totem? Like Vorg stated, they only have 2 people playing right now because the other one can't get the game yet, however they do have 2 ready to go.

[Phayz]

If they are going to restrict soloers in their sandbox, that in and of itself is a bad idea, completely of the rail for this type of game.
this takes away all protection a soloer can have, they is no place safe for him to go.

IMHO 1. delay the game until all aspects are implemented, or,
2. Protect the people who can't yet place a totem ( soloers ) ( IE: no looting )


This game is awesome and I have been posting great things about it on other boards, BUT, to make such a major change 5 days before you are about to launch is neither fair for those of us who have paid our fee, or realistic. This is supposed to be a sandbox, yet immediately on launch i would be forced to group for safety, not very sandboxy if ya ask me

[Tehralph]

If they are going to restrict soloers in their sandbox, that in and of itself is a bad idea, completely of the rail for this type of game.
this takes away all protection a soloer can have, they is no place safe for him to go.

IMHO 1. delay the game until all aspects are implemented, or,
2. Protect the people who can't yet place a totem ( soloers ) ( IE: no looting )


This game is awesome and I have been posting great things about it on other boards, BUT, to make such a major change 5 days before you are about to launch is neither fair for those of us who have paid our fee, or realistic. This is supposed to be a sandbox, yet immediately on launch i would be forced to group for safety, not very sandboxy if ya ask me

You cant honestly say youre suprised. We do need a way to make sure solo players cant hog land from large tribes, but also so that they can stay protected. I suggest making starter tools non-lootable and non-tradeable, that way, solo players can find a nice quiet spot where they would like to settle, put some baskets down, travel around, skilling up, and a few days in can place their homestead without the worry of being killed and having everything taken. This would also take away that annoying "exploit" where people just create multiple characters and trade off the tools. Really takes away the survival aspect IMO.

[broo123]

solo guys
join some tribe for few days until there will be option to make homestead
and quit right after
imho there is no perfect solution
community is great but there will be few person that will try to blackmail tribes and fast place their totems in very good places
or even single persons from enemy tribes can be send to do it
game is very complicated - and truly from my experience i think we won't see many features that are planned for a very long time or at all

[esudar]

you are not supposed to take the best spots that big tribes want obviously

[tredo]

OK, so here is a solution, let's so it takes 10 people to place a totem. Let's say that 10 solo players get together and create a tribe right in the middle of downtime prime location for tribe X. Everyone but 1 person leaves that tribe after the totem is placed. So now you have 1 player in a solo tribe in a prime location instead of a solo player in a homestead tucked away in a secluded little corner.

Everyone is under the impression that solo players or 3 or 4 man tribes are going to rush in to take the #1 best spot in 781, I think you will find that is not the case. Solo players and small tribes will find a place out of the way, off the beaten path to create their own little spot.

[orious13]

I'm a "solo" player ( I want to start off solo...), but this choice about having a few days difference between homestead placement and tribe placement makes complete sense to me. It would be VERY stupid if the game started out with a bunch of solo areas who got there quicker and then leaving the REAL tribes that would actually make the game flourish to have gotten pretty indecent spots. They'd then have to wait until siege mechanics work so they could kick you the heck out of it... which is what would probably happen. Or they'd just stalk your area so that you couldn't do anything except heed to their will.Think about it solo players... This is a way to sculpt a better future for the game. If my spot is taken (kinda doubt it) in a few days, I'll gladly join up with whoever has taken it as long as they are neutral or good.

However... I do think 1 day would probably be enough of a head start lol.


OK, so here is a solution, let's so it takes 10 people to place a totem. Let's say that 10 solo players get together and create a tribe right in the middle of downtime prime location for tribe X. Everyone but 1 person leaves that tribe after the totem is placed. So now you have 1 player in a solo tribe in a prime location instead of a solo player in a homestead tucked away in a secluded little corner.

Everyone is under the impression that solo players or 3 or 4 man tribes are going to rush in to take the #1 best spot in 781, I think you will find that is not the case. Solo players and small tribes will find a place out of the way, off the beaten path to create their own little spot.

yeah... my place is far away, so I could careless that it's a few days until I can make a home. I just hope I can not die until then or at least protect my spot if there is any confrontation.

[FabricSoftener]

I really see no problem with this. Good land grabs should go to those who put in a great deal of effort and creating and maintaining a large tribe is not easy.
What is the luxury of a solo player? well nothing prevents you from being friendly with a tribe and working on their land for awhile, moving on later if you want, and even making small homestead up in the mountains for hunting trips.

You could in effect be a solo player with a homestead in the mountains but live in a large tribe village. which actually might be exactly what i do

[tredo]

I really see no problem with this. Good land grabs should go to those who put in a great deal of effort and creating and maintaining a large tribe is not easy.
What is the luxury of a solo player? well nothing prevents you from being friendly with a tribe and working on their land for awhile, moving on later if you want, and even making small homestead up in the mountains for hunting trips.

You could in effect be a solo player with a homestead in the mountains but live in a large tribe village. which actually might be exactly what i do


Let's say ok, I get to my spot, and I am working around the place, gathering grass, putting down some baskets or what not, fishing, and so forth. What keeps a griefing tribe from coming in and right in beween my baskets, they place a totem. Knowing that is where I was going to be placing my homestead in a day or two and taking over my little piece of land. Then after I move on, they pull the totem and move on as well. That's just the kind of crap a few groups around here would do.

[FabricSoftener]

Let's say ok, I get to my spot, and I am working around the place, gathering grass, putting down some baskets or what not, fishing, and so forth. What keeps a griefing tribe from coming in and right in beween my baskets, they place a totem. Knowing that is where I was going to be placing my homestead in a day or two and taking over my little piece of land. Then after I move on, they pull the totem and move on as well. That's just the kind of crap a few groups around here would do.

why would you not place your homestead first? to be frank what you have just described is true right now even between larger tribes. if you are going to stay at a place long enough to justify a few bins its time to remove the head from the ass and place a homestead or accept the reailty you might loss access to that spot.
I dont see that as greiving, more as common sense.

EDIT: I guess what you are refering to is the first few days? In which case as I said, the good spots should be hard to get and hold, not easy to get and hold

[tredo]

why would you not place your homestead first? to be frank what you have just described is true right now even between larger tribes. if you are going to stay at a place long enough to justify a few bins its time to remove the head from the ass and place a homestead.



For the first few days after the final wipe, only Tribes of 10 members will be able to place totems. I may lower this number, based on current tribe sizes after I examine the database.

After a few days, solo players will be able to claim Homesteads.

From the announcements today, after the final wipe, solo players wont be able to do that for a few days, so during that few days I have no choice but to be open to whatever happens on that spot I have picked out.

[Phayz]

[QUOTE=orious13;41061]I'm a "solo" player ( I want to start off solo...), but this choice about having a few days difference between homestead placement and tribe placement makes complete sense to me. It would be VERY stupid if the game started out with a bunch of solo areas who got there quicker and then leaving the REAL tribes that would actually make the game flourish to have gotten pretty indecent spots. They'd then have to wait until siege mechanics work so they could kick you the heck out of it... which is what would probably happen. Or they'd just stalk your area so that you couldn't do anything except heed to their will.Think about it solo players... This is a way to sculpt a better future for the game. If my spot is taken (kinda doubt it) in a few days, I'll gladly join up with whoever has taken it as long as they are neutral or good.


I do agree with this in a sense I guess it is good to protect soloers from taking huge chucks of land, unfortunately in my case i am just looking for a little spot by the river top pitch a tent and grow I don;t need or want a big chuck on land in the middle of everything, just a little out of the way place, prefereable safe :)

[Drevar]

Bad idea. I can't support this in the least. I CAN see the logic in wanting the larger, more organized tribes to be able to hold the large swaths of decent land, I just don't agree with the logic of limiting critical game features to a sub-set of players. Make homesteads smaller, don't allow questing on the totem, whatever, but don't take away our ability to claim land.

Seriously, if a big tribe needs me to move my totem over a bit so they can squeeze into a spot, then they can trade/bribe me to move, or just take the evil route and gank me every time I step out. If they ask nicely, and promise not to make me KOS just because I accidentally drank water from one tiny unused corner of thier claim I would be happy to move a few meters down the road; a mutual non-aggression pact where we could harvest on each others land, within limits of course--no chopping down all their trees and vice versa.

Drev

[Xsyon]

So reduce the size of a homestead... simple solution!!


That is what I am setting up.

The plan to let tribes place totems first is to prevent griefing. Another potential solution is to now allow players to place a totem, then disband, then place, disband etc. which is too easy for solo players to do. If I can implement this then solo players will be able to start tribes the same day as tribes.

[tredo]

Bad idea. I can't support this in the least. I CAN see the logic in wanting the larger, more organized tribes to be able to hold the large swaths of decent land, I just don't agree with the logic of limiting critical game features to a sub-set of players. Make homesteads smaller, don't allow questing on the totem, whatever, but don't take away our ability to claim land.

Seriously, if a big tribe needs me to move my totem over a bit so they can squeeze into a spot, then they can trade/bribe me to move, or just take the evil route and gank me every time I step out. If they ask nicely, and promise not to make me KOS just because I accidentally drank water from one tiny unused corner of thier claim I would be happy to move a few meters down the road; a mutual non-aggression pact where we could harvest on each others land, within limits of course--no chopping down all their trees and vice versa.

Drev



Exactly -

I just don't see what the big deal is behind not letting solo players or small tribes get access to totem feature at the same time the big tribes get it.

[tredo]

So reduce the size of a homestead.... simple solution.

That is what I am setting up.

The plan to let tribes place totems first is to prevent griefing. Another potential solution is to now allow players to place a totem, then disband, then place, disband etc. which is too easy for solo players to do. If I can implement this then solo players will be able to start tribes the same day as tribes.

THANK YOU!!

You could always put a timer on "homestead" totem placement, once placed it CAN'T be disbanded for 24 - 36 hours, people would think about totem placement before just throwing one down anywhere.

[Drevar]

That is what I am setting up.

The plan to let tribes place totems first is to prevent griefing. Another potential solution is to now allow players to place a totem, then disband, then place, disband etc. which is too easy for solo players to do. If I can implement this then solo players will be able to start tribes the same day as tribes.

Nice, a timer on planting and abandoning a totem would work. It is currently very easy to relocate as soon as you find a spot that is 1% better 50m away. Perhaps you would need to hold the land for 3 days or so before you could plant another totem.

Drev

[Tehralph]

Nice, a timer on planting and abandoning a totem would work. It is currently very easy to relocate as soon as you find a spot that is 1% better 50m away. Perhaps you would need to hold the land for 3 days or so before you could plant another totem.

Drev

I dont understand how this prevents that solo player from snatching a large chunk of land that a tribe wants. I could care less how much land hopping a solo player does, as long as he isnt able to reserve a maximum tribal area worth of land.

[millsdo]

Well, this is to prevent the following which several large tribes have talked about doing:

Having individual members run to good areas and mark the land. Then, they can take a day or two to decide which is the best spot.

There are other reasons as well and I am for the change. Solo players, of which I am one, should be on small tracks of land and not in the prime real estate. It just makes sense.

[Xsyon]

You could always put a timer on "homestead" totem placement, once placed it CAN'T be disbanded for 24 - 36 hours, people would think about totem placement before just throwing one down anywhere.


Yes, this is what I'd like to do, if I can. The announced solution is to prepare everyone in case I don't have time. There are many things that need to be dealt with right now.

The main issue is not simply a solo totem claiming a lot of land. With the reduced land claim that should be ok. The main issue is other griefing tactics that have come to my attention.

[FabricSoftener]

Well, this is to prevent the following which several large tribes have talked about doing:

Having individual members run to good areas and mark the land. Then, they can take a day or two to decide which is the best spot.

There are other reasons as well and I am for the change. Solo players, of which I am one, should be on small tracks of land and not in the prime real estate. It just makes sense.

beat me too it. while eating dinner that hit me. yeah having people running around placing totems as single players is not an idea I approve of. Small 'homestead' should be fine for solos in fact I find it very appealing. I can have a mobile tradeshop.

[Robhood]

But what about the size of 10 versus x? My group may be able to get 7 or possibly 10 players in a few weeks. (I have 4 or 5 waiting to see how this plays out before subbing)

We will have 5 players subbed and ready for the 18th. I would like to be able to get a spot and intice the others to buy the game.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

I recruited at least 7 people yesterday.

[tredo]

Yes, this is what I'd like to do, if I can. The announced solution is to prepare everyone in case I don't have time. There are many things that need to be dealt with right now.

The main issue is not simply a solo totem claiming a lot of land. With the reduced land claim that should be ok. The main issue is other griefing tactics that have come to my attention.

Sad for a few griefers to ruin the game for so many others.....

[Robhood]

We don't want to just blindly recruit players. We have been gaming together for as far back as 2001. I agree that solo players having a reduced area is fine. But give them something for a safe haven.

And 10 players at the start to drop a totem is too big in my opinion. The 3-5 player size seems good.

[sionide]

Well, this is to prevent the following which several large tribes have talked about doing:

Having individual members run to good areas and mark the land. Then, they can take a day or two to decide which is the best spot.

There are other reasons as well and I am for the change. Solo players, of which I am one, should be on small tracks of land and not in the prime real estate. It just makes sense.

TBH I have thought of suggesting this as well. This way you will know you have secure neighbours (or own a junk pile), because your alts own all the surrounding land. And since I know I have thought of it (not yet mentioned it to anyone), I know plenty of others have as well.

I am glad the 1 person totem ability has been looked at. I am sorry for the true soloers out there.

[tredo]

TBH I have thought of suggesting this as well. This way you will know you have secure neighbours (or own a junk pile), because your alts own all the surrounding land. And since I know I have thought of it (not yet mentioned it to anyone), I know plenty of others have as well.

I am glad the 1 person totem ability has been looked at. I am sorry for the true soloers out there.

What alts?

One character per account, so unless you are buying several accounts, you wont have any alts.

[sionide]

What alts?

One character per account, so unless you are buying several accounts, you wont have any alts.

Yep. And people will, and people do. Also, friends who try the game and dont' like it and you give you their account...alts exist, it's not like I am inventing aliens in the game.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

I think it's a great idea. Better to make solo players and small groups wait a couple of days to let good spots go to larger groups. It's being more realistic and will help the economy in the long run.

[Dothackking]

I haven't read through all 7 pages, only the first three, but:

My tribe is a very active 5 man tribe. We have reported very many bugs, and been very beneficial to the testing process.
Why the size of TEN? Currently, I can't imagine more than 5 tribes have ten people, you're just encouraging people to do one of two things if you change it to ten:
1. Join the big conformist tribe
2. Get 10 people together, place totem, have the extras leave.

Either way, it's bad. We will definitely be doing the latter if the 10 people requirement is set up at launch. We camped out with very little sleep for 2 days this wipe, and plan on doing the same for the next one.

We deserve our good location just as much as the next tribe.


Edit: This also takes away the ability to have your own "terraforming pit" for your tribe to get dirt. Which I am neutral towards. We personally have one, but could live without one.

[Tchey]

Maybe do not limit anything, but make totem a crafted object (maybe in firecamp craft so everyone have it) that needs several compos (but no tool), like a trunk, some feathers, some junk... So a solo player need naturaly more time while a tribe can gather everything in less time.

[Dothackking]

I was about to post the same thing, Tchey.

I still prefer it just being a smaller size, but that is a better solution than outright denying the hardcore solo/small group players.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

Honestly why call yourselves a tribe? 5 people would be more of a group than a tribe. Not even enough people to master all of the professions. Big conformist tribe is an ugly thing to say. You should join a real tribe and then venture off to form a group homestead with your friends.

[tredo]

I think Xsyon has an idea with reducing the size of the 'homestead' totems, and putting a timer on them so once placed they can not be disbanded for 24 - 36 hours. This would keep the solo players to smaller areas of ground, and would stop them from just dropping a totem anywhere. If the player just makes a character, drops a totem and deletes the character, to just grief a solo player or a tribe, the totem should disappear as well as any other worldly items that character had.

I also think that 'homestead' totems should look different then 'tribal' totems, still be able to issue quests and such, but so that an on looker or someone coming into the camp would know its a 'homestead' and not a 'tribal' area.

[Dothackking]

Dontaze,
"any aggregate of people united by ties of descent from a common ancestor, community of customs and traditions, adherence to the same leaders, etc." Definition of Tribe.
As for mastering all of the professions, why would we need to? Toolcrafter, basketer, terraformer, fisher. Only ones you need when you first start. And that only requires two people.

[Valr]

Why havent tribes already claimed the spots they want, I noticed a majority of players always build in the same place EVERY wipe. A few do change locations but for the most part, people have already found the spots they want.

As far as 1 man totems being an issue, in Global chat the players complaining about all the 1 tribe totems taking up space arent leading 10man tribes themselves.... its another 1 or 2 man group looking for a spot.

Why set the number @ 10? I thought 10 was to make a tribe into a town. I can understand needing 2 or 3 people to form a tribe, but not 10. Put the number @ 3 to drop a totem, Towns created @ 10 and lets play the game.

[Tehralph]

Honestly why call yourselves a tribe? 5 people would be more of a group than a tribe. Not even enough people to master all of the professions. Big conformist tribe is an ugly thing to say. You should join a real tribe and then venture off to form a group homestead with your friends.

Big conformist tribe IS an ugly thing to say. Im pretty sure my guild and I are planning on making a city on launch (specifics pending), letting self suffecient citizens into the "tribe" and giving them a plot of land to build on. Come on, were all civilised, and civilised people live under law in a colony.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/2972-average-tribesize

So it would seem there are more tribes over 10 than there are under. According to the peanut gallery.

[Dothackking]

Why havent tribes already claimed the spots they want, I noticed a majority of players always build in the same place EVERY wipe. A few do change locations but for the most part, people have already found the spots they want.

As far as 1 man totems being an issue, in Global chat the players complaining about all the 1 tribe totems taking up space arent leading 10man tribes themselves.... its another 1 or 2 man group looking for a spot.

Why set the number @ 10? I thought 10 was to make a tribe into a town. I can understand needing 2 or 3 people to form a tribe, but not 10. Put the number @ 3 to drop a totem, Towns created @ 10 and lets play the game.

Personally, a single player has our spot we want to claim during wipe. We haven't been around too long, so we've been scouting the whole time we're playing. We finally settled on a spot for wipe. And we are determined to get it. Only problem: need 10 people.

[Dothackking]

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/2972-average-tribesize

So it would seem there are more tribes over 10 than there are under. According to the peanut gallery.

More by 3%

[Dontaze_Mebro]

3% Wins any elections I've ever seen.

[Valr]

Also if they are going to add another Server for EU, then they just doubled the size of the world technically. I say 1 character per account period. Pick a server and play on it.

[Dothackking]

This wasn't a vote. I'm sure the number of votes in that topic by small tribes will go up now that they know he's looking into it.

You ever seen Runescape forums since they readded wildy?

So many nonvoters are complaining wishing they had voted. That's how this will be.

Those numbers are silly. I've seen that many single person tribes easily.


Edit: oh look, the poll is now up to 50% under 10. Told you

[Haakhen]

Me and my uncle is playing in a 2 man tribe, we have no intentions of stealing any land, but we want to start at the same time as everyone else.

I really hope Xsyon comes up with a solution that is good for everyone.

[otomotopia]

Let me be blunt here.

My tribe of 8 people are going to play at wipe and at launch. We are playing this game for the sandbox element and the PvP element. Because we have not seen much activity on the PvP and combat side, only 2 people are active on this forum and one is semi-active in game currently.

I'm sure that the other PvP-centric tribes have the same situation. We're under-represented because of the fact that we have been under-represented in the past. I'm sure the amount who dislike safe zones is 50/50 compared to those who do.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

Many multi-gaming guilds have only a hand full of players in until prelude.

[FabricSoftener]

Let me be blunt here.

My tribe of 8 people are going to play at wipe and at launch. We are playing this game for the sandbox element and the PvP element. Because we have not seen much activity on the PvP and combat side, only 2 people are active on this forum and one is semi-active in game currently.

I'm sure that the other PvP-centric tribes have the same situation. We're under-represented because of the fact that we have been under-represented in the past. I'm sure the amount who dislike safe zones is 50/50 compared to those who do.

I played (and am still playing) Darkfall for 2 years and its actually a very good game despite all the people QQ about it because they cant kill everyone. What I dont get is why not play darkfall? I dont mean that question as a negitive I just mean if I wanted hard core pvp there is no question in my mind what game I would play.

darkfall pvp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqxfc-rS-3A
Xyson pvp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy8ORsUDku4

[Phayz]

Well I am glad this is being thought out at least
I am a solo player, I like playing this particular game solo, it is challenging, and rewarding for me

Small homestead works great for me, somewhere off the beaten path, but without the safety of the totem/homestead, i would likely become the beaten path
I like the ideas being tossed around ( smaller land claim/ timer etc.. ) all of which would work for me.

Having said that, since this game has been in developement for so long, perhaps a lottery for the big established tribes would be an idea

[tredo]

Well I am glad this is being thought out at least
I am a solo player, I like playing this particular game solo, it is challenging, and rewarding for me

Small homestead works great for me, somewhere off the beaten path, but without the safety of the totem/homestead, i would likely become the beaten path
I like the ideas being tossed around ( smaller land claim/ timer etc.. ) all of which would work for me.

Having said that, since this game has been in developement for so long, perhaps a lottery for the big established tribes would be an idea

Not sure if you had read all the 9 pages but on page 6 Xsyon does comment on some of the ideas he is trying to put into place before Friday. He is just running out of time.

[otomotopia]

I played (and am still playing) Darkfall for 2 years and its actually a very good game despite all the people QQ about it because they cant kill everyone. What I dont get is why not play darkfall? I dont mean that question as a negitive I just mean if I wanted hard core pvp there is no question in my mind what game I would play.

darkfall pvp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqxfc-rS-3A
Xyson pvp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy8ORsUDku4
We do play darkfall, and are in the Rebel Alliance. Just like SSR came over, we're interested in what this game has to offer as well. Terraforming is a huge game changer and I love that its in here, and the crafting system is just beyond amazing. We're very into construction and politics and making friends and all, but we do want to fight people we don't like, or just for the hell of it.

We love this game.
We love the features.
We love the potential.

And we want to defend ourselves, our interests, and own more land, and we love to do that by the sword.

[FabricSoftener]

We do play darkfall, and are in the Rebel Alliance. Just like SSR came over, we're interested in what this game has to offer as well. Terraforming is a huge game changer and I love that its in here, and the crafting system is just beyond amazing. We're very into construction and politics and making friends and all, but we do want to fight people we don't like, or just for the hell of it.

We love this game.
We love the features.
We love the potential.

And we want to defend ourselves, our interests, and own more land, and we love to do that by the sword.

and I understand that. I just notice that many seem to be getting on this game explictly and only for pvp as if they are looking for some hard core pvp action or something and I just wonder if they understand what they are getting into.
Now given the trillion different armor options and contruction possibilities clearly around protecting villages I have no doubt pvp will exist in the game but its also clear its not the main focus of the game. if it were he would have made a combat engine first, not an extensive world building crafting engine first. Additionally given that he has decided to 're-do' the combat engine 'perhaps in the style of mount and blade' should give people two clues. One, the combat engine was second thought, not first, and second mount and blade is not going to be re-created in a week.

[otomotopia]

and I understand that. I just notice that many seem to be getting on this game explictly and only for pvp as if they are looking for some hard core pvp action or something and I just wonder if they understand what they are getting into.
Now given the trillion different armor options and contruction possibilities clearly around protecting villages I have no doubt pvp will exist in the game but its also clear its not the main focus of the game. if it were he would have made a combat engine first, not an extensive world building crafting engine first. Additionally given that he has decided to 're-do' the combat engine 'perhaps in the style of mount and blade' should give people two clues. One, the combat engine was second thought, not first, and second mount and blade is not going to be re-created in a week.

And I understand (most) of that. I really dislike the people who think that full loot PvP is the central reason to play. I for one think that it is a good system, but I understand and love the crafting and terraforming and gathering aspects equaly to eachother and to PvP. In that regard, I fully support what you're saying.

However, I would mention that he views combat a nessesity to get right, and more importantly IMPROVE. He also did this at the behest of the community, because it is incredibly better then the mess we have going on here. Besides Shadowboxing, that is. That's friggin cool.

But the animation and design of combat was changed, and not left flapping in the wind. And the world building and crafting was put in first, yes, because that is an incredibly important feature of the game. All of this is true.

But I don't think the timing of it means much in terms of importance. Of course he worked on that first, because that's what would break the hardest and its how 'the game' starts. You don't raid people until that's done either way, unless you're griefing or stupid. Probably both. But the metagame matters as well. Wars will start because people will scavange on other's claims. I will want to fight someone over land rights. And I want to back it up by actually TAKING their land from them.

Now that crafting works and terraforming doesn't break the world, the next stop is the inter-player systems, including diplomacy and concurrant war. It isn't an after thought, but it is on the to-do list.

[Larsa]

... I have no doubt pvp will exist in the game but its also clear its not the main focus of the game. ... If you publish a game that has FFA PvP full loot as feature you get players that like FFA PvP full loot, no matter whether that was the intention of the developers or not.

I would wish for a sandbox MMORPG without FFA PvP full loot, but sadly, such a game does not exist. (On a sidenote, I also believe that the considerable commercial success of EVE has a lot to do with it's rather large practically safe zones.)

[FPrime]

We do need a way to make sure solo players cant hog land from large tribes, but also so that they can stay protected. I suggest making starter tools non-lootable and non-tradeable, that way, solo players can find a nice quiet spot where they would like to settle, put some baskets down, travel around, skilling up, and a few days in can place their homestead without the worry of being killed and having everything taken. This would also take away that annoying "exploit" where people just create multiple characters and trade off the tools. Really takes away the survival aspect IMO.

Great post.

I had been thinking of that too as a solution to the "all tools" exploit but you point out another good reason to consider it. If players won't be able to claim land to get safety right away without joining a tribe it becomes an even more attractive solution.

One detail I would add is that any starter items left in the world (packs on the ground or contents of any container) should disappear when the character who they belong to is deleted (which you probably intended but it wasn't specifically mentioned here).

I think a lot of players who have come to rely on that exploit (or plan on griefing noobs) may resist this idea but really it won't affect much after the first couple of days. I am not asking for total safety from pvp or anything but I don't think new characters (new players or alts) should be a resource that's harvested.

[Tehralph]

Great post.

I had been thinking of that too as a solution to the "all tools" exploit but you point out another good reason to consider it. If players won't be able to claim land to get safety right away without joining a tribe it becomes an even more attractive solution.

One detail I would add is that any starter items left in the world (packs on the ground or contents of any container) should disappear when the character who they belong to is deleted (which you probably intended but it wasn't specifically mentioned here).

I think a lot of players who have come to rely on that exploit (or plan on griefing noobs) may resist this idea but really it won't affect much after the first couple of days. I am not asking for total safety from pvp or anything but I don't think new characters (new players or alts) should be a resource that's harvested.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

[bruisie159]

Yes, this is what I'd like to do, if I can. The announced solution is to prepare everyone in case I don't have time. There are many things that need to be dealt with right now.

The main issue is not simply a solo totem claiming a lot of land. With the reduced land claim that should be ok. The main issue is other griefing tactics that have come to my attention.


You seem to focus on how all these solo players are just here to grief the tribes (ive never seen any evidence of this) but by implementing this idea a few days before launch you are griefing every single solo player that paid good money for the game.

[otomotopia]

It's not griefing the tribes, its taking up the good land that the tribes should be owning. Say there's a hundred solo players, and 40 tribal players. The tribal players become 4 tribes. the 4 tribes own four spots. The 100 players own 100 spots.

Is loosing 4 plots too much to ask?

[bruisie159]

missing the point completly its the fact that solo players will have to wait "a few days" to be able to fully enjoy the game. Judging by the history of this game nothing ever happens anywhere near on time as promised so i should think a few days will mostly likely be a few weeks at least. Our so called 2 week head start for pre order has already been reduced by 4 days due to yet another delay and this will delay it even further.

[Saorlan]

Why would you limit the beginning for solo players like this?

I have paid my preorder just like EVERYONE else has, as a matter of fact there are a lot of solo players that have been here since you turned on the servers and to find out a week before the prelude you are telling us we can't play like everyone else?

In my opinion this is a crappy way to treat the solo players!!!

No I totally agree that a solo player can not create a totem. Solo players are just that - Solo.

They can own a homestead or the such like but not a totem - they are for tribes and last time I looked one man was not a tribe.

[bruisie159]

No I totally agree that a solo player can not create a totem. Solo players are just that - Solo.

They can own a homestead or the such like but not a totem - they are for tribes and last time I looked one man was not a tribe.

missing the point again, i dont think many solo players would be annoyed if homesteads were available from friday just like a tribes totem is.

[parkezu]

I think what bruisie159 is trying to say is - we dont care if we get homesteads or tribes - but we do care about not having the chance to claim our spot on the same day as everybody else.

[tredo]

I think what bruisie159 is trying to say is - we dont care if we get homesteads or tribes - but we do care about not having the chance to claim our spot on the same day as everybody else.


This is my point EXACTLY, this is the whole reason behind the thread to begin with!!!

[shukes]

i have only just started the game this week..last night for an hour to be precise.
What drew me to the game was the whole "sandbox" experience! i can do whatever i want.

Ok what if i want to go down the difficult route of soloing? is sandbox " you be/do anything you want other than solo"

What if i want to make my place in the world? that is the main point that drew me here. Well it seems like you can only make your place in the world if you have teamed up with a bunch of people already...if not then sorry you have to fight over the scraps!

I have played too many games where big guilds call the shots...not saying i wont join a tribe...just saying i am new and wanted to take my time and find my place first. This is meant to be a sandbox not a guild hall!

[shukes]

i would be happy with a small homestead and restrictions on placing them. for example;

You can place a totem to claim a small x area of land to yourself. If you decide to move on then the totem is destroyed and you have a two week real time countdown untill you can place another. so simply choose wisely. Dont rush just to claim any piece of land you stumble across.

This would make me really search and think about where im placing. " this looks like a great piece of land...hmmm likely a large tribe will be looking at it, so if i place close i am likely to be forced out...yes better to move on" because there is a cooldown timer i would consider all options....heck make the timre six weeks for all i care!

[bruisie159]

This is my point EXACTLY, this is the whole reason behind the thread to begin with!!!

hehe im with u tredo! And the depth of feeling over this is obvious, i mean check out the number of views this thread has. Huge amount is such a short time even more than the stickied guides. Favouring one group of players over another is a terrible way to launch a game, easpecially this late on.

[mgilbrtsn]

Admittedly, the game is tribe focused. I think it will be hard to go solo, but I'm sure they will begin adding stuff for the benefit of solo players after they address the main area of group dynamics.

[blackzilla]

I too hope they rethink this over the course of the next few days. I plan on being a lone wolf in this world.

[bruisie159]

well u never know, a miracle may happen and the devs will get homesteads implemented by friday and then there isnt a problem!

[carlosfc1986]

devs are in touch with the tribe leaders and im sure its them who are pushing to get this working at release...just make a poll so we show the devs that solo players are in a good number as well, they will be loosing people if they are going to forget about us like this, just cos a bunch of carebear leaders are afraid of not getting the superuberlwet spot.


btw if someone takes ur spot, force him to leave. its easy he can lift up the totem and go to another place or u (the stronger tribe) will harass him untill he do. this is sandbox omg!

[Chavoda]

devs are in touch with the tribe leaders and im sure its them who are pushing to get this working at release...just make a poll so we show the devs that solo players are in a good number as well, they will be loosing people if they are going to forget about us like this, just cos a bunch of carebear leaders are afraid of not getting the superuberlwet spot.


btw if someone takes ur spot, force him to leave. its easy he can lift up the totem and go to another place or u (the stronger tribe) will harass him untill he do. this is sandbox omg!

Yup thats hwo its supsoe to work, all i want is a chance to claim one of the spots i have in mind, they aint even great spots..just nice for my personal preference. if a large tribe wants that area i want my homestead in then they can camp me for five hours and kill me over and over and over , I wont give up in a single hour but if they realy realy want that spot and keep it up for several hours I'm likely to say..ok you proofen you want this , you can have it.. now just give me my cloths and tools back please... :)

[Tehralph]

devs are in touch with the tribe leaders and im sure its them who are pushing to get this working at release...just make a poll so we show the devs that solo players are in a good number as well, they will be loosing people if they are going to forget about us like this, just cos a bunch of carebear leaders are afraid of not getting the superuberlwet spot.


btw if someone takes ur spot, force him to leave. its easy he can lift up the totem and go to another place or u (the stronger tribe) will harass him untill he do. this is sandbox omg!

Harassing someone until they give up should only be one of many options. As a sandbox game, that tribe should just be able to walk in and destroy the totem themselves, you know, cause theyre bigger and whatnot.

[Gamefreak]

This is being done to prevent griefing. Simple as that. Think of it this way, if people could place homesteads anywhere on the first day, and there was a tribe who wanted to set up in a specific spot, if someone wanted to grief that particular tribe all they would have to do is slap their homestead right where the tribe wanted to set up. This would prevent the tribe from setting up around where they wanted to and would force them to move x(max tribe radius) away from where they wanted to. To go further with this, there is absolutely nothing the tribe could do about it, with the exception of trying to camp the person who set up their homestead. No war system, no way to get them to leave.

I see people here saying "Well just kill them until they leave!". Easier said than done, as most griefers are almost unbelievably persistent. You can't destroy their totem, hell, you can't even attack them inside their little "bubble" referred to as the tribe barriers. All they have to do is see how fast they can poke their head out of their bubble without getting it chopped off. This was put in because there was a lack of a game mechanic to stop one man tribe areas, or "homesteads", from griefing the living hell out of tribes. If it was as simple as just forcing them to leave, we'd butcher them as soon as they put their totem down. Unfortunately, this is not possible. All they have to do is buy a second copy of the game, and you will never get them to move. They would simply just put their totem down and log off for eternity, with no way for you to eliminate them.

[tredo]

This is being done to prevent griefing. Simple as that. Think of it this way, if people could place homesteads anywhere on the first day, and there was a tribe who wanted to set up in a specific spot, if someone wanted to grief that particular tribe all they would have to do is slap their homestead right where the tribe wanted to set up. This would prevent the tribe from setting up around where they wanted to and would force them to move x(max tribe radius) away from where they wanted to. To go further with this, there is absolutely nothing the tribe could do about it, with the exception of trying to camp the person who set up their homestead. No war system, no way to get them to leave.

I see people here saying "Well just kill them until they leave!". Easier said than done, as most griefers are almost unbelievably persistent. You can't destroy their totem, hell, you can't even attack them inside their little "bubble" referred to as the tribe barriers. All they have to do is see how fast they can poke their head out of their bubble without getting it chopped off. This was put in because there was a lack of a game mechanic to stop one man tribe areas, or "homesteads", from griefing the living hell out of tribes. If it was as simple as just forcing them to leave, we'd butcher them as soon as they put their totem down. Unfortunately, this is not possible. All they have to do is buy a second copy of the game, and you will never get them to move. They would simply just put their totem down and log off for eternity, with no way for you to eliminate them.

You are leaving out one VERY important part about griefers.... The almighty power of the Guide! One prayer to a guide and poof your problem is solved.

[bruisie159]

well so far a look at this poll http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/3369-How-are-you-going-to-play shows that jooky is alienating half his player base with this "idea" It seems to be his relationship with the tribe leaders of the larger tribes is a little bit too unhealthy and its thru pandering to their demands that decisions seem to be made. Just like the we'll teleport the large tribes to their starting spot at launch.

[Raystar]

Ok, unfairness for unfairness: let the leaders of the 10 (12,15,9...whatever) big tribes have access to the game X (X=1, 2, 3,...whatever) hours before opening the gates of the server to everybody. Make them select their spot and log out.

It's unfair, but as a member of a 3 people tribe I feel like I would tolerate this option more than being unable to play certain parts of the game at release. This would also have the benefit of not having to code in any hurried changes before the go live of the game.

[BigCountry]

You have to implement is this way.

Or else everyone would ninja all the totem spots. It would be aweful for the sandbox because that is exactly what would happen.

10 players to place a totem is totally legit.

[blackzilla]

well so far a look at this poll http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/3369-How-are-you-going-to-play shows that jooky is alienating half his player base with this "idea" It seems to be his relationship with the tribe leaders of the larger tribes is a little bit too unhealthy and its thru pandering to their demands that decisions seem to be made. Just like the we'll teleport the large tribes to their starting spot at launch.

If anyone gets special treatment the way you mentioned above (teleport larger tribes to there chosen areas) I will deffinently take alternative measures. I will leave it at that...

[Dust]

I'll tell you what, I was planning on going solo, building up my little house and crafting armors, but if I can't do that I have to switch to my plan b, circling around tribes and killing/stealing everything I see.

I would prefer my first plan.. And I am uncertain about a lot of things as of now. I got this game a week ago and features keep changing on a day by day basis.. The devs are opening up the door for lots of credit card charge back and that will hurt their credit.

[Doc]

This is very, very bad, claiming land should be sorted out the moment servers go live, doing it like this, well, is very, very bad.

Large tribes can grief, well, everyone else, tribe of 50 can drop 40 totems, if number gets lowered to 5 they can drop 45 totems.

Even tribe of 20 can drop 10 totems (15), without much fear of spot(s) being taken, so they dont even need to hurry it...

[VeryWiiTee]

Why would you limit the beginning for solo players like this?

I have paid my preorder just like EVERYONE else has, as a matter of fact there are a lot of solo players that have been here since you turned on the servers and to find out a week before the prelude you are telling us we can't play like everyone else?

In my opinion this is a crappy way to treat the solo players!!!

It is relatively easy.
YOU ARE TAKING UP PRECIOUS SPACE THAT YOU DO NOT NEED.
That oughta do it.

I've paid just as much money to have a tribe location.. Why should a solo player in a multiplayer game be favoured over the others.. You are just solo. We are many many more.
Go play fekking WoW if you want to solo.. (that was meant as a.. Come on, grow up and stop complaining that a game for once do NOT favour solo players.)

[blackzilla]

It is relatively easy.
YOU ARE TAKING UP PRECIOUS SPACE THAT YOU DO NOT NEED.
That oughta do it.

I've paid just as much money to have a tribe location.. Why should a solo player in a multiplayer game be favoured over the others.. You are just solo. We are many many more.
Go play fekking WoW if you want to solo..

That is a piss poor attitude. I will remember you... remember its not griefing, its me RP'ing a serial killer.

[Dust]

It is relatively easy.
YOU ARE TAKING UP PRECIOUS SPACE THAT YOU DO NOT NEED.
That oughta do it.

I've paid just as much money to have a tribe location.. Why should a solo player in a multiplayer game be favoured over the others.. You are just solo. We are many many more.
Go play fekking WoW if you want to solo..

A 1 man tribe can grow in a 10+ tribe, you don't get to decide that every 1 man tribe will stay 1 man tribe for ever.

edit: yea black, let's find his ingame name and hunt his ass. Won't be able to do anything else anyway.

[shukes]

if that happened i would just leave...but really dont think they would do that!

One question though, do only large tribes get griefed? whats it called if get the same treatment as a solo player? ye thats two haha!

ut what i mean is it needs to be fair for every player regardless of if they are in a tribe or not. Like others have mentioned " this is sandbox " one man should be able to make a name in a world!

[shukes]

It is relatively easy.
YOU ARE TAKING UP PRECIOUS SPACE THAT YOU DO NOT NEED.
That oughta do it.

I've paid just as much money to have a tribe location.. Why should a solo player in a multiplayer game be favoured over the others.. You are just solo. We are many many more.
Go play fekking WoW if you want to solo.. (that was meant as a.. Come on, grow up and stop complaining that a game for once do NOT favour solo players.)


hmmm why can't people just see that it should be fair for every person?
So you think we are asking to be favoured over larger tribes? not one post has asked for that, just parity!

but the tribes for some reason think that they are entitled to more just because they play together?
Maybe here is the problem

Though i realise this is not a real representation of the majority of tribes :)

[VeryWiiTee]

Well.
Put it this way. This game is a very tribe heavy game. Without tribes, no game. A solo player can't handle it all by himself, you were lucky to get all skills. I still hope that will be rectified.
You've already gotten so many goodies. Time for the tribes to actually get a few, no. (Mention one thing that only applies to tribes. Quest making does not count as you can't take up your own quests, making it a non-viable option for solo'ers.)

I for one am tired of seeing single tribes taking up space they don't need, they don't use and they don't log in.
Homesteads are by all means fine. If they are just that. Small little areas with enough space for a little house, a canopy and a fenching for crops whatever, without any claims to land or otherwise.. (We're maybe talking about a 20diameter area, preferably smaller.)
But in all honesty do you think they will be ready?
Which would you rather accomodate. The group of people your game is aimed at or the group of people tagging along? (you cannot possibly say Xsyon would be possible without tribes..)
So be happy you got all skills to begin with, be happy that you actually got an area you can build on. Be happy that they actually gave you those stuff instead of complaining when they want to balance it out so that larger tribes have a chance too.

Just bring it on sweet boys, you've only just bought the game. And amazing, my characters name is in the signature on this board and you still need to figure it out.. And good luck finding me, if it is that hard figuring out my chars name, I have no worries in-game :).

[Jadzia]

Ok, unfairness for unfairness: let the leaders of the 10 (12,15,9...whatever) big tribes have access to the game X (X=1, 2, 3,...whatever) hours before opening the gates of the server to everybody. Make them select their spot and log out.

It's unfair, but as a member of a 3 people tribe I feel like I would tolerate this option more than being unable to play certain parts of the game at release. This would also have the benefit of not having to code in any hurried changes before the go live of the game.

This sounds as a good solution to me, not perfect but the best I can think of.
Being a member of a large tribe I really don't want to see my tribe being grieved by some players who only drop totem for the sole reason to annoy others.

At the same time I absolutely agree that solo players payed the same price for the game as I did, they have all the rights to play the game with the same opportunities. I want solo players to be around, the world will be much more full of life with their homesteads here and there.

Its sad to see that a few people who want to grief others can create such a big problem for tribes and solo players both.

[Chavoda]

LEts make it very clear.. Tribes are not needed at all! sure its easyer to be in a tribe, and they can have land ownership , warfare..and such but to say the game would be dead whit out tribes is complete bullshit.. solo players trade, they fight..they do everything a tribe does but in smaller ways.

the onyl reason to have a tribe or be in a tribe is to get it easy. easy to gain things, easy to learn things ,easy to fight things... Tribes have no right beyond the right of their swords to dictate what non-tribe owners/members should do.

[shukes]

himself, you were lucky to get all skills. I still hope that will be rectified.
You've already gotten so many goodies. Time for the tribes to actually get a few, no. (Mention one thing that only applies to tribes. Quest making does not count as you can't take up your own quests, making it a non-viable option for solo'ers.)
VeryWiitee

Err the thing were talking about...remember....tribes starting from day one being able to plant a totem! and solo players not.
Thats one thing isnt it hehe!

Im quite new to be honest so dont flame me for asking as i just dont know yet.
But can you actually name just one thing that solo players get that tribes dont?

[VeryWiiTee]

You got all skills availabe. Seriously, people whined for ages that solo players couldn't make the stuff they needed to survive (well doh you are solo, go trade with a tribe then but noo.. You wanted skills, you got it). (Which is why I'm telling you. THIS GAME CANNOT FUNCTION WITHOUT TRIBES).
First the tribe member necessity to plant a totem was reduced to 5, then 1. Why? Because it was unfair for solo players that didn't want a tribe was not able to construct anything in this game.

Name one thing that tribes has gotten which wasn't planned that way from the start. Seriously.. One tiny little thing that doesn't affect solo players. I haven't seen any way of accomodating the tribes. Not even when they panicked over you solo players getting the ability to stomp your totem.)

I am never flaming, just laughing of the silliness some of you guys has as an output, I'm not pissed, not really anything. It is pixels on a screen..

[shukes]

sorry do i get this right?
solo players start with all the skills and people in a tribe dont?
Because if they do then thats not an answer try again mate and calm down hehe.

And again to answer your question ( that you have changed ...ye we all noticed that ) the one thing you asked was simply......starting the game with the ability to place a totem.

Now that is one thing whether you agree with it or not :)

[shukes]

VeryWiiTee i am new here so dont take what i say too bad.....theres so much i dont know yet.

But to let you know the type of player i am. I will start solo because it is usually tough and harsh. i like that.
Then when i get to know the game and people, i may join a tribe, even a city maybe. im not saying anything against tribes, i think the idea is great. I just find it unfair to punish the ones that plan to solo till the end.
I'm not moaning about anything i class myself as pretty hardcore and dont think there is a company out that can turn me away due to being too tough.

Just trying to see it from others eyes thats all :)

[VeryWiiTee]

Players starts with all skills because "solo players whined they couldn't do jack." You were literally screwed if you choose the wrong professions.
- So yes, it benefits all if you want to call it a benefit. But who was it aimed for. You, the solo player, got your skills for your precious survival instead of interacting with tribes.

People, that was playing solo, was again up on their feet when they heard Homesteads were being taken out for revisions. They wanted a spot to call their own. Fine by me, seriously it is fine with me you get a tiny spot you can have your lulz on. Is it fine with the current solo tribes? Hell fucking no. Is the current solution good? Hell fucking no. Is it better than the previous way it would go. Hell fucking yes.

There are tribes that would, just as much as you, like to have a good spot. They do represent more players than your single wish to be exactly there. They do play a much more important part in this game than you would do as a solo player. Starting location, quests making, hubs, trading posts ect. (remember, no npc economy, quests etc..)

It is still pixels on a screen. How can I get enraged over something that is obviously non-existant the moment I shut down my screen. I can't so I won't. You guys are just so piss easily to tick off. It is like stealing candy from a child.

(I'm so tired of seeing it from other peoples eyes when it comes to games, because they always want more instead of being contend)

[AlexTaldren]

I'm part of a larger tribe, but I don't see the reasoning behind keeping solo players or small tribes from placing a totem. I mean, small tribes like that are probably going to avoid placing totems in high-traffic areas (if they are smart) simply based on the risk of running into others who might want to chop their heads off. Plus, once tribe territory becomes contestable (or if), these small tribes are going to have a problem if they aren't isolated.

Frankly, it just seems pointless to keep smaller group or solo players from dropping totems. And, for anyone who believes this game isn't about solo or small groups, you're wrong. Tribes are important, but it will be the neutral one-man homesteads and tribes that fill in the gaps and bring life to the world.

[Chavoda]

VeryWiiTee nobody her is saying we want tribal land for solo players.. what everyone is saying is that small tribes and homesteads should eb able to claim their land aswell at the same time the big tribes do. there Alot of 2-4 man tribes and teams out there, there allot of solo players and there are big 10+tribes. currently the 10+tribes get to play the game to the fullest from day one. everyone else is forced to wait around in the save starting area for days. (or go out scavenging for a few days..skill grind)

What you seem to think is that we want a -large- land mass just for us solo players. that never bin the point of this whole 14 page tread. every solo player is more then happy whit the small homestead, and smaller tribes would have np if they had a smaller tribe area. ( it should be based on member number anyhow)

as its now, only large tribes get to play the game for the first days as the game is intended to play.

[shukes]

Players starts with all skills because "solo players whined they couldn't do jack." You were literally screwed if you choose the wrong professions.
- So yes, it benefits all if you want to call it a benefit. But who was it aimed for. You, the solo player, got your skills for your precious survival instead of interacting with tribes.

People, that was playing solo, was again up on their feet when they heard Homesteads were being taken out for revisions. They wanted a spot to call their own. Fine by me, seriously it is fine with me you get a tiny spot you can have your lulz on. Is it fine with the current solo tribes? Hell fucking no. Is the current solution good? Hell fucking no. Is it better than the previous way it would go. Hell fucking yes.

There are tribes that would, just as much as you, like to have a good spot. They do represent more players than your single wish to be exactly there. They do play a much more important part in this game than you would do as a solo player. Starting location, quests making, hubs, trading posts ect. (remember, no npc economy, quests etc..)

It is still pixels on a screen. How can I get enraged over something that is obviously non-existant the moment I shut down my screen. I can't so I won't. You guys are just so piss easily to tick off. It is like stealing candy from a child.

(I'm so tired of seeing it from other peoples eyes when it comes to games, because they always want more instead of being contend)

hmm are you in a tribe by any chance? seems to me you want it all the way you want it...fair play to ya son!
Trouble is others want it thier way too. Let me have a think on this....is he or right, is he wrong? are the solo players right? or are they wrong?

Answer: none of them are they are all just forming an opinion. ok i get it...you want it all easy mode, you join a tribe to make things easier for you! you can share resources to make it easier for you.....oh wait theres a little solo player threatening our vast empire! please devs stop it haha!

And you are wandering why some tribes get griefed? its this eliteist BS that cause it :)

[Phayz]

I'm part of a larger tribe, but I don't see the reasoning behind keeping solo players or small tribes from placing a totem. I mean, small tribes like that are probably going to avoid placing totems in high-traffic areas (if they are smart) simply based on the risk of running into others who might want to chop their heads off. Plus, once tribe territory becomes contestable (or if), these small tribes are going to have a problem if they aren't isolated.

Frankly, it just seems pointless to keep smaller group or solo players from dropping totems. And, for anyone who believes this game isn't about solo or small groups, you're wrong. Tribes are important, but it will be the neutral one-man homesteads and tribes that fill in the gaps and bring life to the world.





^
this is exactly right

[shukes]

I'm part of a larger tribe, but I don't see the reasoning behind keeping solo players or small tribes from placing a totem. I mean, small tribes like that are probably going to avoid placing totems in high-traffic areas (if they are smart) simply based on the risk of running into others who might want to chop their heads off. Plus, once tribe territory becomes contestable (or if), these small tribes are going to have a problem if they aren't isolated.

Frankly, it just seems pointless to keep smaller group or solo players from dropping totems. And, for anyone who believes this game isn't about solo or small groups, you're wrong. Tribes are important, but it will be the neutral one-man homesteads and tribes that fill in the gaps and bring life to the world.

Exactly!
if i was going to solo i would stay away from the areas i thought would be ripe for large tribes for safety reasons. or i would at least speak with them and see if they minded me setting up close. This is a world after all and not everyone is an enemy!

[Phayz]

Players starts with all skills because "solo players whined they couldn't do jack." You were literally screwed if you choose the wrong professions.
- So yes, it benefits all if you want to call it a benefit. But who was it aimed for. You, the solo player, got your skills for your precious survival instead of interacting with tribes.



There is no reason why we shouldn't have all the skills ( at a reduced subset )

The whole basis of this game is about survival, there is no reason at all to believe that in a post apocolypse, that the remaining survivors wouldn't " Learn " to survive.

Even if you chose how to make tools, you would still Learn how to shelter yourself, or catch yourself some food, or cut down a freakin tree, you are right, it is about survival, and it's the solo players who are actually surviving.

The tribal aspect, which I also think is great, makes for a much easier ride into the world of Xyson, which is also good, if that is your method of playstyle, but frankly whether you like it or not there are many of us who are not going to choose the easy road, and tuff it out and enjoy the hell out of the game.

[Larsa]

... People, that was playing solo, was again up on their feet when they heard Homesteads were being taken out for revisions. They wanted a spot to call their own. Fine by me, seriously it is fine with me you get a tiny spot you can have your lulz on. Is it fine with the current solo tribes? Hell fucking no. Is the current solution good? Hell fucking no. Is it better than the previous way it would go. Hell fucking yes. ...
You seem to be quite agitated. When you hate solo players that much I have a newsflash for you: almost all players that come to this game start solo. They don't necessarily stay solo, but solo they start because they need to play the game before they can meet people to join a tribe or found one.

Sounds like you want this game to be exclusively for people that already have joined a tribe during beta and all other people can bugger off as far as you're concerned. Here's another newsflash: creating a game environment that is unfriendly to new players is not good for the longevity of the game.

[blackzilla]

Players starts with all skills because "solo players whined they couldn't do jack." You were literally screwed if you choose the wrong professions.
- So yes, it benefits all if you want to call it a benefit. But who was it aimed for. You, the solo player, got your skills for your precious survival instead of interacting with tribes.

People, that was playing solo, was again up on their feet when they heard Homesteads were being taken out for revisions. They wanted a spot to call their own. Fine by me, seriously it is fine with me you get a tiny spot you can have your lulz on. Is it fine with the current solo tribes? Hell fucking no. Is the current solution good? Hell fucking no. Is it better than the previous way it would go. Hell fucking yes.

There are tribes that would, just as much as you, like to have a good spot. They do represent more players than your single wish to be exactly there. They do play a much more important part in this game than you would do as a solo player. Starting location, quests making, hubs, trading posts ect. (remember, no npc economy, quests etc..)

It is still pixels on a screen. How can I get enraged over something that is obviously non-existant the moment I shut down my screen. I can't so I won't. You guys are just so piss easily to tick off. It is like stealing candy from a child.

(I'm so tired of seeing it from other peoples eyes when it comes to games, because they always want more instead of being contend)

You're a very narrow minded individual. Ever hear of the term "May the best man win!"? WEll if we all start at the same exact time and I nab your spot... its all fair. I will then work on making my tribe grow from there... your logic fails everytime you try to justify what you are saying. All you are saying is I have a pre-formed guild and we should get priority, how about playing the game like a game? Ever cross your mind? Dolt!

[Doc]

People, that was playing solo, was again up on their feet when they heard Homesteads were being taken out for revisions. They wanted a spot to call their own. Fine by me, seriously it is fine with me you get a tiny spot you can have your lulz on. Is it fine with the current solo tribes? Hell fucking no. Is the current solution good? Hell fucking no. Is it better than the previous way it would go. Hell fucking yes.

So, one very bad solution must be replaced with another very bad solution, that jus happens to suit you?


There are tribes that would, just as much as you, like to have a good spot. They do represent more players than your single wish to be exactly there. They do play a much more important part in this game than you would do as a solo player. Starting location, quests making, hubs, trading posts ect. (remember, no npc economy, quests etc..)

I didnt know that was limited to tribes, could you elaborate pls?


It is still pixels on a screen. How can I get enraged over something that is obviously non-existant the moment I shut down my screen. I can't so I won't. You guys are just so piss easily to tick off. It is like stealing candy from a child.

Ill take this statement like sarcasm, cause if it isnt...dont know who is also whining: but we want best locations, advantages...if its just pixels: suck it up that someone sticked a totem under your nose like a man lol...after all...its just a bunch of pixels on a screen


(I'm so tired of seeing it from other peoples eyes when it comes to games, because they always want more instead of being contend)

You mean: just like you?

This is such a bad thing that game shouldnt launch until its resolved, releasing it with current "solution": very unwise.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

We would be happy to suck it up, but you will all rage when tribal lands become attackable and we boot you out of your pathetic little shanty.

[blackzilla]

We would be happy to suck it up, but you will all rage when tribal lands become attackable and we boot you out of your pathetic little shanty.

Who says you will win that fight. I had three guys jump me yesterday, at once.... Guess what? I am now wearing all their shit because they thought they could take me out due to numbers. Just sayin.

At least we are given a choice this way and it is not ramed down our throats. Just saying your point is moot.

[otomotopia]

Well view it like this. A tribe of 12 people take up one spot of land. A one person 'homestead' also takes up one spot. By doing the land grab like this, 12 people get one spot first, and then everyone else gets their stake of land.

I mean, if 12 people are on one spot, they should have preference either way. They'll simply need a better spot because, to be blunt, they'll be doing more. 30 man tribes will need to split and own two territories because its simple- 30 people use more then one. 15 people use more then one.

I understand the slighted feeling. I still think it makes sense that these people in a tribe, who take up much less land, should get their pickings first. I would still recommend shortening the lock to 32 hours after wipe.

[blackzilla]

Well view it like this. A tribe of 12 people take up one spot of land. A one person 'homestead' also takes up one spot. By doing the land grab like this, 12 people get one spot first, and then everyone else gets their stake of land.

I mean, if 12 people are on one spot, they should have preference either way. They'll simply need a better spot because, to be blunt, they'll be doing more. 30 man tribes will need to split and own two territories because its simple- 30 people use more then one. 15 people use more then one.

I understand the slighted feeling. I still think it makes sense that these people in a tribe, who take up much less land, should get their pickings first. I would still recommend shortening the lock to 32 hours after wipe.

What if those 12 man or 20 man, hell 30 man tribes never grow and only keep what members they have. I may start out as one but what if my tribe grows to exceed theirs becuase im cool as ballz and they fail becuase their leader sucks the big one...then what....you cannot justify giving anyone a grace start beyond pre-ordering like the rest of us. Nuff said.

[Doc]

We would be happy to suck it up, but you will all rage when tribal lands become attackable and we boot you out of your pathetic little shanty.

So? Ill stalk your totem till noones around and kick you of your land. I mean, its all fair game, aint it?

[Airbornenik]

A tribe is stronger, and gets the land they want by force.

[Dust]

A tribe is stronger, and gets the land they want by force.

I would really like that but it do not look like the devs plan that way.

edit: I am raging less now. There will be a huge load of frustrated people at lunch and I will try to get them together and target all the big tribes since it's gonna be basicly their fault. Cut all the trees around them.

[Dust]

Please come and cut our trees. We like when they spawn nubfruit.

Alright, where will your tribe be located? I'll bring the booze. (for me) There won't be anything else to do from what I can see.

[otomotopia]

Alright, where will your tribe be located? I'll bring the booze. (for me) There won't be anything else to do from what I can see.

Join the dark side... we have cookies.

[Dust]

Join the dark side... we have cookies.

Sounds.. Delicious! I will see how things work out and then I will probably be looking for such an evil tribe.

[bankerandrew]

Dear devs...if u want a vibrant community...dont piss off small groups / solo players. Check your records u will find that most tribes cannot gather 10 people online at once to make a tribe and drop a totem. If u want this as tribes online, then say that bluntly. Just be ready for shit storm of refund requests.

All players should have equal access to the game on day 1. Preformed tribes should not have any benefit over any other group. You assume too much in doing this and create an un level playing field for to be formed tribes on release day. Tribe size should determine radius of safe zone..this is the only fair way to release and without this mechanic your game will be unsuccesful. Look at any other mmo that fails at this and u see a failed game. Postpone release until you figure this out 100% or watch all your efforts producing this sandbox go down toilet. No favoratism....look at ccp and negative reaction when thet meddled in the game events. My sand is no greater or less than anyone elses. We all deserve equal footing...that is why pvp exists. Let players settle location issues via pvp as it should be. If i cant play until 4 days after release u bet your ass i will be getting a refund. I wont play another game where devs favor one group over another. Its either sandbox or not.

The f'n end. Here some rope to hang your game by its neck. Your choice.

[FabricSoftener]

Dear devs...if u want a vibrant community...dont piss off small groups / solo players. Check your records u will find that most tribes cannot gather 10 people online at once to make a tribe and drop a totem. If u want this as tribes online, then say that bluntly. Just be ready for shit storm of refund requests.

All players should have equal access to the game on day 1. Preformed tribes should not have any benefit over any other group. You assume too much in doing this and create an un level playing field for to be formed tribes on release day. Tribe size should determine radius of safe zone..this is the only fair way to release and without this mechanic your game will be unsuccesful. Look at any other mmo that fails at this and u see a failed game. Postpone release until you figure this out 100% or watch all your efforts producing this sandbox go down toilet. No favoratism....look at ccp and negative reaction when thet meddled in the game events. My sand is no greater or less than anyone elses. We all deserve equal footing...that is why pvp exists. Let players settle location issues via pvp as it should be. If i cant play until 4 days after release u bet your ass i will be getting a refund. I wont play another game where devs favor one group over another. Its either sandbox or not.

The f'n end. Here some rope to hang your game by its neck. Your choice.

completely disagree with what you are saying and how you are saying it.

All you have to do to become a good pvp player in this game is to stop crying about wanting a safe zone and place baskets anywhere you want then craft up all your armory and weapons and put your little toys into the baskets. You dont even need a homestead to do that.

[bruisie159]

Dear devs...if u want a vibrant community...dont piss off small groups / solo players. Check your records u will find that most tribes cannot gather 10 people online at once to make a tribe and drop a totem. If u want this as tribes online, then say that bluntly. Just be ready for shit storm of refund requests.

All players should have equal access to the game on day 1. Preformed tribes should not have any benefit over any other group. You assume too much in doing this and create an un level playing field for to be formed tribes on release day. Tribe size should determine radius of safe zone..this is the only fair way to release and without this mechanic your game will be unsuccesful. Look at any other mmo that fails at this and u see a failed game. Postpone release until you figure this out 100% or watch all your efforts producing this sandbox go down toilet. No favoratism....look at ccp
and negative reaction when thet meddled in the game events. My sand is no greater or less than anyone elses. We all deserve equal footing...that is why pvp exists. Let players settle location issues via pvp as it should be. If i cant play until 4 days after release u bet your ass i will be getting a refund. I wont play another game where devs favor one group over another. Its either sandbox or not.
The f'n end. Here some rope to hang your game by its neck. Your choice.

Well Said I totally agree

[bankerandrew]

I dont mean to sound like a jerk to the devs but many of us have been waiting since swg debacle for a decent sandbox only to have favoratism. Beta tribe should not have special priveleges. I roamed around the entire map and most tribe were very small. Sandbox = sand in a box...players figure out the rest with minor set of rules to protect against griefing and botting. Most small groups or solo players will wabt to be hidden and away from large open areas...i just dont see this as an issue to let everyone play as they want from day 1. Griefing is already against TOS and guides can settle disputes on those issues. I just dont see why devs want to shoot themselves in the foot just to release early.

[FabricSoftener]

I dont mean to sound like a jerk to the devs but many of us have been waiting since swg debacle for a decent sandbox only to have favoratism. Beta tribe should not have special priveleges. I roamed around the entire map and most tribe were very small. Sandbox = sand in a box...players figure out the rest with minor set of rules to protect against griefing and botting. Most small groups or solo players will wabt to be hidden and away from large open areas...i just dont see this as an issue to let everyone play as they want from day 1. Griefing is already against TOS and guides can settle disputes on those issues. I just dont see why devs want to shoot themselves in the foot just to release early.

I dont understand the problem and perhaps I am missing something. make some baskets put permissions on it and start crafting. you dont need even need a homesetead to do that. architecture and digging is all you cant really do without at least a homestead

[bankerandrew]

I dont understand the problem and perhaps I am missing something. make some baskets put permissions on it and start crafting. you dont need even need a homesetead to do that. architecture and digging is all you cant really do without at least a homestead

I cant be asked to read the last 16 pages for you. Its not about just solo players, most tribes are less than 10 players total. Sanbox should not have limitations on how people play...some tribes will start small or as one and want a pice of safe zone however small to prevent griefing. Why do u want the whole pie? How about we all leave and just have the game about 2-3 zerg tribes?

[shukes]

completely disagree with what you are saying and how you are saying it.

All you have to do to become a good pvp player in this game is to stop crying about wanting a safe zone and place baskets anywhere you want then craft up all your armory and weapons and put your little toys into the baskets. You dont even need a homestead to do that.

safe zone? have you read this thread friend? i think your missing the whole argument!
Dont make my little pice of land safe for all i care! i just want to be able to play a sandbox game where all are equal.
Tribes dont want it equal they seem to want preference and easy mode for them.

Sorry i shouldnt label all tribes the same as there are many who want the sandbox eperience. Some agree that we should all start equal. I give credit to the tribes that are saying " let all start together, if a solo player gets my land then my tribe will either parley with them to move, or force them out"
I'm with these guys/girls! bring on the sandbox.

Dont give in to easy mode tribes and give them preference.

[ifireallymust]

I just asked for a refund and a sub cancellation over this. I have no problem with areas set aside as tribe development only, but if I can't go out on launch day and lay claim to a tiny plot of land somewhere in the game world, I have no reason whatsoever to play the game at all. While it is possible that in the future I would have joined a tribe, I certainly won't be coerced into it. If this change goes through, Xsyon will be just another game that calls itself a sandbox but fails to deliver real freedom.

[shukes]

I just asked for a refund and a sub cancellation over this. I have no problem with areas set aside as tribe development only, but if I can't go out on launch day and lay claim to a tiny plot of land somewhere in the game world, I have no reason whatsoever to play the game at all. While it is possible that in the future I would have joined a tribe, I certainly won't be coerced into it. If this change goes through, Xsyon will be just another game that calls itself a sandbox but fails to deliver real freedom.

hey friend dont jump the gun.
They are looking into this and trying to find a solution. It does not make sense to do this and i am sure they will find a sensible way around it.

just give them a few days :)

[ifireallymust]

hey friend dont jump the gun.
They are looking into this and trying to find a solution. It does not make sense to do this and i am sure they will find a sensible way around it.

just give them a few days :)


I hope you're right. It's good to see there are a large number of players with the same concerns I have, anyway.

[FabricSoftener]

I just asked for a refund and a sub cancellation over this. I have no problem with areas set aside as tribe development only, but if I can't go out on launch day and lay claim to a tiny plot of land somewhere in the game world, I have no reason whatsoever to play the game at all. While it is possible that in the future I would have joined a tribe, I certainly won't be coerced into it. If this change goes through, Xsyon will be just another game that calls itself a sandbox but fails to deliver real freedom.

If you are being honest with that statement its likely you should leave. Reason being if one feature such as this one is a game changer for you then its likely you will not stay with the game anyway so its best to play the other game you like more.

[Furyk]

If you are being honest with that statement its likely you should leave. Reason being if one feature such as this one is a game changer for you then its likely you will not stay with the game anyway so its best to play the other game you like more.

You are very vocal in support of limiting the game play of almost half the server.

I was going to avoid posting this in the hopes that people wouldnt figure it out, but there is a SERIOUS FLAW in your argument that a solo player can just drop baskets on day 1 and set permissions to keep the stuff inside safe. Any Tribe that drops a Totem, whose area of control radius encompasses his private baskets, will have the ability to open his baskets. Its in the game mechanics, not an exploit.

There are ways to convince a solo player that he should let your large tribe have a certain spot besides changing the game mechanics to limit solo players ability to play a SANDBOX game they way they want to from the beginning.

[FabricSoftener]

You are very vocal in support of limiting the game play of almost half the server.

I was going to avoid posting this in the hopes that people wouldnt figure it out, but there is a SERIOUS FLAW in your argument that a solo player can just drop baskets on day 1 and set permissions to keep the stuff inside safe. Any Tribe that drops a Totem, whose area of control radius encompasses his private baskets, will have the ability to open his baskets. Its in the game mechanics, not an exploit.

There are ways to convince a solo player that he should let your large tribe have a certain spot besides changing the game mechanics to limit solo players ability to play a SANDBOX game they way they want to from the beginning.

I didnt know that was a game mechanic however I had several baskets out in the wilderness all weekend that never got taken not to mention clans typically are not going to be roaming around with their totem taking some guys random basket when they have a camp with walls, tents and huge amounts invested.

Sorry I still dont see this as a major problem. There are plenty of very nice spots I have seen that large tribes would NOT be intrested in because of the terrian. Perfect spot for a homestead (thus you have protection) and if you want to build major stuff offer your services to a clan that has a large spot.

Seriously, this is not a game changer and like I said, if it really and truely is a game changer for you despite all the other features then yes you need to move on to the other game you like more.

I am not concerned with 1/2 the current population leaving most of them are going to anyway, it happens in most games during the first few months.

EDIT: By the way, I moved my camp this weekend. My camp of 4 bins. I moved about 1/2 a sector. it took me the greater part of a day to do it. People are not going to be roaming around placing totems to steal your stuff, its way too much work

[bruisie159]

I didnt know that was a game mechanic however I had several baskets out in the wilderness all weekend that never got taken not to mention clans typically are not going to be roaming around with their totem taking some guys random basket when they have a camp with walls, tents and huge amounts invested.

Sorry I still dont see this as a major problem. There are plenty of very nice spots I have seen that large tribes would NOT be intrested in because of the terrian. Perfect spot for a homestead (thus you have protection) and if you want to build major stuff offer your services to a clan that has a large spot.

Seriously, this is not a game changer and like I said, if it really and truely is a game changer for you despite all the other features then yes you need to move on to the other game you like more.

I am not concerned with 1/2 the current population leaving most of them are going to anyway, it happens in most games during the first few months.

EDIT: By the way, I moved my camp this weekend. My camp of 4 bins. I moved about 1/2 a sector. it took me the greater part of a day to do it. People are not going to be roaming around placing totems to steal your stuff, its way too much work

There are a few points you miss. Its not just about any 1 single issue like having a safe zone from the start. Its about some people being given preferencial treatment to go and choose a site and get established before the other half of the player base are allowed to come and get whats left. Im not just talking about solo players but also 3/5/8 player tribes. Of course then there is also an issue with half the population being able to have a safe zone and the other half not.

I dont think ANYBODY has a problem with the homestead idea its a good solution to have territory size dependent on tribe size its just the fact that its being introduced at the last minute right before a launch that some people have been waiting nearly a year for expecting a type of game that they may not get (at least at the begining) and the feature is not even ready. On top of that its turning a community that was extremely united, friendly, helpful and supportive of the project into one that resents each other and is divided over the games development. In my opinion not a good strategy.

[Furyk]

I didnt know that was a game mechanic however I had several baskets out in the wilderness all weekend that never got taken not to mention clans typically are not going to be roaming around with their totem taking some guys random basket when they have a camp with walls, tents and huge amounts invested.

Sorry I still dont see this as a major problem. There are plenty of very nice spots I have seen that large tribes would NOT be intrested in because of the terrian. Perfect spot for a homestead (thus you have protection) and if you want to build major stuff offer your services to a clan that has a large spot.

Seriously, this is not a game changer and like I said, if it really and truely is a game changer for you despite all the other features then yes you need to move on to the other game you like more.

I am not concerned with 1/2 the current population leaving most of them are going to anyway, it happens in most games during the first few months.

EDIT: By the way, I moved my camp this weekend. My camp of 4 bins. I moved about 1/2 a sector. it took me the greater part of a day to do it. People are not going to be roaming around placing totems to steal your stuff, its way too much work


Do yourself a favor and drop the 'move on to another game' argument. I have 12-15 people in my tribe, so the 10+ change to totem placement isnt going to ruin my game play.

Bruisie159 got the point, its about the people who have 3 or 5 or 9 people, who now suddenly cant start building their spot until all the 10+ people Tribes have been at it for a couple days. Have you thought this through or are you so stuck in your own opinion that you dont care what affects half the server? If the game wipe is on friday the 18th and we are able to get in game on friday to set up 10+ member tribes, while the under 10 (including solo players) have to wait 2 or 3 days... what day do they get to play(place their Totem) on? Sunday at the earliest, but probably not until Monday. Oh what you have to work? Too bad you should have just joined forces with a bunch of people you have nothing in common with so you could have a totem spot on launch weekend.

[FabricSoftener]

Do yourself a favor and drop the 'move on to another game' argument. I have 12-15 people in my tribe, so the 10+ change to totem placement isnt going to ruin my game play.

Bruisie159 got the point, its about the people who have 3 or 5 or 9 people, who now suddenly cant start building their spot until all the 10+ people Tribes have been at it for a couple days. Have you thought this through or are you so stuck in your own opinion that you dont care what affects half the server? If the game wipe is on friday the 18th and we are able to get in game on friday to set up 10+ member tribes, while the under 10 (including solo players) have to wait 2 or 3 days... what day do they get to play(place their Totem) on? Sunday at the earliest, but probably not until Monday. Oh what you have to work? Too bad you should have just joined forces with a bunch of people you have nothing in common with so you could have a totem spot on launch weekend.

are you leaving the game or not? sorry if not so many threatens to quit I cant keep up ! :)

devs we really need an ignore feature please

[Zhero]

I was going to start out solo, have my own little place out of the way from day one. I was going to do this to feel at home in the world, see what occurs then maybe join a tribe. I guess a few days doesn't hurt in the long run but why should I pay the same amount of money as the larger tribes/leaders when they receive preferential treatment?

I must say I am not happy this is happening, that the dev/devs are in private talks with these people, that they are shaping the world behind closed doors. Shame

[Rykard]

Alright, I've gotta throw my 2 cents in. I'm pretty irked about this change. I've got my little cabin in the woods for my family, and I like that way. There's gotta be a better solution then cutting all of us with less then 10 tribesmen online at launch totally adrift. Now, I can deal with a bit of a headstart for the big tribes, or something to prevent the Porta-Totem moving safe zone... but forcing us to be homeless and wander for days isn't all that cool. We deserve the same rights as anyone else.

[FabricSoftener]

Alright, I've gotta throw my 2 cents in. I'm pretty irked about this change. I've got my little cabin in the woods for my family, and I like that way. There's gotta be a better solution then cutting all of us with less then 10 tribesmen online at launch totally adrift. Now, I can deal with a bit of a headstart for the big tribes, or something to prevent the Porta-Totem moving safe zone... but forcing us to be homeless and wander for days isn't all that cool. We deserve the same rights as anyone else.

large clans do not want those cool cabin like locations in the woods because the space is hard to work with for large projects. Homesteads will allow you to create a cabin in the woods. In short, you will have exactly what you have now a few days after launch.

[Tandarie]

Push back launch until you fix homesteads. Make Homesteads with the same features of 10 man tribes but limit the size and limit the radious which another tribe can be built next to a homestead. Say 1-9 members you can only have a homestead with a 50m from totem which is plenty of room. Homesteads can't expand and tribes can allowing homesteaders to have closer neighbors which in the long run may help eachother out while still being able to do your own thing.

[tredo]

Make Homesteads with the same features of 10 man tribes but limit the size and limit the radious which another tribe can be built next to a homestead. Say 1-9 members you can only have a homestead with a 50m from totem which is plenty of room. Homesteads can't expand and tribes can allowing homesteaders to have closer neighbors which in the long run may help eachother out while still being able to do your own thing.

Add a timer to the homestead totem and you have the perfect solution. This will stop people from just throwing down totems in order to grief others.

I know that they are hard at work trying to get this exact idea to work... hope it gets done before Friday.

[vorg]

From what I read, currently when you drop a totem, it is the max size of a tribe. The current area they are taking is NOT that big. In fact it is the smallest a claimed area should be even for a single person home stead. In wurm, single person home steads where only of use a to a few as most needed more land then it provided for assorted projects and buildings. If this game is having problems with land shortage with these tiny tribe areas, then the game world is WAY too small.

We went exploring before the last wipe and there was plenty of room and places to put down a totem even with them currently using max size. Large tribes are going to need more room then what they are now.

[Tehralph]

From what I read, currently when you drop a totem, it is the max size of a tribe. The current area they are taking is NOT that big. In fact it is the smallest a claimed area should be even for a single person home stead. In wurm, single person home steads where only of use a to a few as most needed more land then it provided for assorted projects and buildings. If this game is having problems with land shortage with these tiny tribe areas, then the game world is WAY too small.

We went exploring before the last wipe and there was plenty of room and places to put down a totem even with them currently using max size. Large tribes are going to need more room then what they are now.

1 man can claim 800 square meters of land, even though that 1 man can only use 75 square meters alone. 800 square meters of open, untouchable land, because a single person put down a totem. If you think thats not a big deal, then youre selfish, because it quickly takes up land when it consumes 1/4 of a quadrant.

[ifireallymust]

If you are being honest with that statement its likely you should leave. Reason being if one feature such as this one is a game changer for you then its likely you will not stay with the game anyway so its best to play the other game you like more.

I absolutely did ask for a refund, and got a response. My biggest short-term concern if we are forced to wait two days to drop a totem is how many times I'll be griefed and forced to reroll before I manage to make it to a spot where I can safely drop a totem of my own. We don't start out in the game world with much, but what we do start with is really necessary, and unlike a lot of you, I just signed up to play a few days ago, so I have no idea how to go about replacing any of it if I lose it. My long-term concern is that a start delay for solo players and small tribes sends a message to the community, and that message is: Solo players and small groups are not welcome! The response I received in answer to my cancellation request assured me that there is room for solo play in Xsyon. Which is why I'm going to stay.

You are wrong to think I quit MMOs over typical (and in some cases even drastic) changes. I've ridden out changes that have caused droves of players to quit, and I've ridden out more bug infested launches and patches and games that were buggy even years after release than I can remember, too. If I enjoy a game, I stick with it. Very few things are a deal breaker. But this is one of them.

[Doc]

1 man can claim 800 square meters of land, even though that 1 man can only use 75 square meters alone. 800 square meters of open, untouchable land, because a single person put down a totem. If you think thats not a big deal, then youre selfish, because it quickly takes up land when it consumes 1/4 of a quadrant.

Nobody denies totems take to much space, people are pissed in what way its dealt with.


I absolutely did ask for a refund, and got a response. My biggest short-term concern if we are forced to wait two days to drop a totem is how many times I'll be griefed and forced to reroll before I manage to make it to a spot where I can safely drop a totem of my own. We don't start out in the game world with much, but what we do start with is really necessary, and unlike a lot of you, I just signed up to play a few days ago, so I have no idea how to go about replacing any of it if I lose it. My long-term concern is that a start delay for solo players and small tribes sends a message to the community, and that message is: Solo players and small groups are not welcome! The response I received in answer to my cancellation request assured me that there is room for solo play in Xsyon. Which is why I'm going to stay.

You are wrong to think I quit MMOs over typical (and in some cases even drastic) changes. I've ridden out changes that have caused droves of players to quit, and I've ridden out more bug infested launches and patches and games that were buggy even years after release than I can remember, too. If I enjoy a game, I stick with it. Very few things are a deal breaker. But this is one of them.

Can you plese pm me the response, cause im in the same boat as you. Been playing MMOs for 8+ years and i have gone through many bad decisions, but this one is new low (if it stays like this).

[Tandarie]

Make homestead boundries smaller!!! The freakin Apocalypse doesn't play favorites but apparently the devs do!

[Tehralph]

Make homestead boundries smaller!!! The freakin Apocalypse doesn't play favorites but apparently the devs do!

Lol, yes it does.... safety in numbers. Thats how real like works. This game is far more tender to lone players than real life is.

[ifireallymust]

Ah, but you're wrong, I did suggest a solution that I would be content with (keep in mind I'm speaking for myself and have no idea what others in the community think of this solution). I am content to wait a few extra days to enter the game world if, when I do enter it, I have immunity from attack until I drop my totem on the unclaimed spot that I want to settle (to prevent people from having permanent immunity by never dropping a totem, put a reasonable ingame timer on it). That way, I can pass all your happy, hippie, flower picking tribal communes on my way to some isolated misanthrope haven without getting ganked. Then I'll build my mudhut, and if, eventually, you are permitted to stomp it into a mud hole just because you're bored on a Saturday and you can, and if I haven't found a tribe I would like to join by then who would like to have me as a member (probably I will have), then I'll deal with that issue when it happens.

Now, what is to stop the 10+ tribes from spreading out as far from each other as possible while dropping their totems in such a way that smaller tribes and solo players not only end up with the worst locations as far as resources and access to roads, but also traps all of us between you, preventing even isolation?

[Tehralph]

I have an idea! Starting tools cant be looted. You can terraform anywhere, you can build anywhere. Ok idea done. Whats everyone think?

[aliksteel]

First thing let me talk about Jooky and the solo player, Over the last 18 pages I have seen how Jooky is not looking out for the solo player. This is not true, Jooky's idea for this game never had solo players in it. The fact that he is doing all this for solo players shows how much he is trying to help you all. Just the fact he gave solo players solo tribes show how much he cares. Changing Solo Tribes to Homesteads also shows how Jooky is trying to show the solo player base love. I do feel that if there is any way to do a push back to letting us in, Then push it back till the Homesteads are ready, And we all can start off at the same time.

But even if he can't stop the live date(18th), It does not mean he is crapping on you solo players. This is a small game team and not every thing goes as planned, And adding solo to the game could not have helped on his time. So yes it will suck, But no he is not doing this because he hates you. It's not because he does not care for you. He just ran out of time.

And remember this game was never meant to have solo players in it, It was build around the idea of tribes! Not the single player.

[ifireallymust]

Just so you 'survival experts' know, small societies and loners (trappers, miners, traders) have often survived threats of attack from large, predatory groups by isolating themselves from those groups. The game world isn't large enough to allow this (I suppose eventually it could be), and now tommybomb even admits that the idea of letting the big guys have that head start is partly to prevent safety through what isolation the game world does allow.

As for realism, don't even try that claim. The game doesn't have communicable disease, does it? Can half a tribe die after a visit from a flu-infected trader or walk around weakened (suffering massive stat loss) for weeks or months (unable, for the sake of realism, to end their illness debuff through death, which, may I remind you, is unrealistically impermanent in this game). This is a game. All realism serves the game world, not the other way around.

But if the %30 or less of players in their 10+ tribes are going to get their way despite the %70+ majority of players who will be harmed by them, then I suspect this game's 'reality' will cater to that large tribe, pro-pvp (with no consequences) minority voice. Why, I don't know. Perhaps aliksteel is right and it's in keeping with the game developer's vision. Which is fine. It's his game. And it's my monthly sub.

[ifireallymust]

Your salty carebear tears really are delicious. Get onboard with Jookys game or go play another. Although I have to admit, your pixels will be sorely missed.

That's just it, I'm confused about his vision for the game, because people are posting his descriptions of what he wants Xsyon to be, and his words do seem to paint a far different (and in my opinion better) Xsyon than your carebear tear-slurping etch-a-sketch gank-fest fantasy land.

[ifireallymust]

umadbro?

You troll, bro?

Of course you do, and are. You're trying to make me mad, but you can't. But I applaud your effort. When I decide to annoy someone, I do it in better and more memorably, though. Just so you know, you're way outclassed in the troll department. I didn't come here to troll or be trolled. I came here to find out what the proposed start delay means for solo players and for players who prefer small tribes. I'm getting mixed signals from everyone but you, however, unless you are Jooky in disguise, I can't rely on the accuracy of your posts. Now, if you were to quote some things Jooky has said that backs up your claims, that might help. Did I miss the posts somewhere in which you ceased your somewhat entertaining but uninformative trolling long enough to post any facts to back up your claims that the game is designed to be heavily pvp oriented, to heavily favor the large tribes, and that we solo and small group players are not wanted?

In fact, if what you say is true, perhaps it's time to offer the %70 percent of us in the posted poll who do not fit in with the supposed vision full refunds in hopes that we'll leave quietly and not ruin the game's concept.

[Dust]

That's just it, I'm confused about his vision for the game, because people are posting his descriptions of what he wants Xsyon to be, and his words do seem to paint a far different (and in my opinion better) Xsyon than your carebear tear-slurping etch-a-sketch gank-fest fantasy land.

Yup, I would also like an official, definite answer to that. Both the official ruleset and the carebear tear-slurping part. So, tommyboy, tell us where that solo player touched you. Was it in the no no zone?

[Larsa]

... And remember this game was never meant to have solo players in it, It was build around the idea of tribes! Not the single player.Certainly one of the most sensible posts in this thread and a voice of reason. Thank you for that.

However, I doubt the vision that this game was never meant to have solo players in it. It always will. Most of the new players, almost by definition, start their experience solo. Every game, whatever it is, needs new players, most of them have their first game experience solo before they meet other people and join a tribe or setup an own one or decide to stay alone.

Whatever they do, the new player experience must be taken into consideration. And because almost all new players start solo the solo experience must be considered, even when a tribe from beta days complains about it.

The obvious solution, of course, would be to have only 3 or 4 starting locations and have new players autojoin a pre-made tribe at these locations. Mind you, that need to be locations that provide gameplay (resources, recipes, junkheaps, etc.) for a few days or a week and are safe from PvP. Every player would be free to leave that auto-tribe whenever he wishes, I would suggest that a new player gets auto-booted from that new player tribe after 2 weeks.

That way the big clans from beta can have their spot without impacting the new player experience too much.

And why I am typing all this? Hardly everone will read it in this heated discussion anway. :)

[Gamefreak]

If Jordi doesn't cater to solo players, then why is he constantly bending over backwards for them?

Solo players ask for all the skills at the start of the game... they get it.
Solo players ask for one man tribes... they get it

He is giving the opportunity to solo, and he's done so in the best way he can right now. If he implements it any other way, the larger body of the player base will complain because you will have random assholes stealing tribal land. Once again, there is no way for a larger tribe to eliminate the homestead that is on their land, because there is no war system. Asking for GMs to delete other tribes because they're on your spot is ... well ... it should be unneeded. A game feature should take care of that, not a policing squad.

[ifireallymust]

70%

Ninja please.

The poll in no way reflects how people feel about the rules, it only relfects a very small sample of people who have voted how large of a group they plan on playing with. You also have lumped the "Undecided" in with your "large percentage", which just goes to show how you are willing to skew the facts to fit your position. The fact is, solo players are the minority and the game is designed with tribes in mind. I will not go through and cite the resources you have at your own disposal. I have no reason to make that effort, as I support the decision for reasons I've already stated.

Also, the fact that you say you aren't mad, and how vehemently you object to my position that Jooky is making the right decisions shows how truly angered you really are. You're fooling noone but yourself.

<3

It's actually kind of funny that you think I'm pissed, because some days, I admit, it doesn't take much to piss me off! However, you have failed to quite strike the right note. Perhaps it's because I can see that you are more intelligent than the usual troll (which makes countering your posts an exercise in sharp wit rather than in bludgeoning you with simple nerd rage). It also helps that you are clearly trying to piss me off, which of course, being the contrary person I am, makes me inclined to do the opposite of what you want. I'm afraid you lose this round, better luck next time!

(Are you going to post any Jooky quotes that back your assertions about his vision for Xsyon, by the way? This sparring has been entertaining, but still not very informative!)

[otomotopia]

I agree Gamefreak. Add in "GM Evicted me" threads and suddently there's a rallying cry.

[ifireallymust]

If Jordi doesn't cater to solo players, then why is he constantly bending over backwards for them?

Solo players ask for all the skills at the start of the game... they get it.
Solo players ask for one man tribes... they get it

He is giving the opportunity to solo, and he's done so in the best way he can right now. If he implements it any other way, the larger body of the player base will complain because you will have random assholes stealing tribal land. Once again, there is no way for a larger tribe to eliminate the homestead that is on their land, because there is no war system. Asking for GMs to delete other tribes because they're on your spot is ... well ... it should be unneeded. A game feature should take care of that, not a policing squad.

I completely agree that no one should be allowed to grief in this fashion. However, the solution seems to give large tribes an opportunity to grief smaller tribes and soloers by letting them coordinate a setup that excludes everyone else from good spots, surrounds and entraps the small tribes and solo players, and controls all the rivers and roads, if there are enough of them to manage it, and there may well be. If that isn't a recipe for griefing, what is?

[otomotopia]

It's actually kind of funny that you think I'm pissed, because some days, I admit, it doesn't take much to piss me off! However, you have failed to quite strike the right note. Perhaps it's because I can see that you are more intelligent than the usual troll (which makes countering your posts an exercise in sharp wit rather than in bludgeoning you with simple nerd rage). It also helps that you are clearly trying to piss me off, which of course, being the contrary person I am, makes me inclined to do the opposite of what you want. I'm afraid you lose this round, better luck next time!

(Are you going to post any Jooky quotes that back your assertions about his vision for Xsyon, by the way? This sparring has been entertaining, but still not very informative!)
/ applause

FAQ:
November 4th:


Q:Will every item (tent, shack, fence, wall, teepee, or whatever else is in the architect recipes) have to be placed / dropped on tribal land?

A:For now, yes.

I originally planned to allow building outside tribe lands, but it would cause too many problems (imagine waking up to a wall built around your city for example). If I allow buildings to be destroyed if built on non tribal land, someone will destroy them right away. I have some future ideas for all of this, including small homesteads for solo players, but this will evolve with the game.

Questions for the week of 12/19 through 12/26:


Q:Are there plans to allow tents etc, to be set up by single players outside of tribes territory?

A:No, but players can create single player tibes. I may allow building outside of tribe territories later, but they won't be protected as in tribe zones.

[tredo]

1 man can claim 800 square meters of land, even though that 1 man can only use 75 square meters alone. 800 square meters of open, untouchable land, because a single person put down a totem. If you think thats not a big deal, then youre selfish, because it quickly takes up land when it consumes 1/4 of a quadrant.

Not sure where you numbers are coming from.... 1 man totem is 50m from totem to edge. That is 100m across so 100m x 3.14 is 314 square meters way shorter then your 800m that you are saying is a 1 man tribe. I have done this many times and come to the same 100m across from edge to edge. If you want to throw out a huge number for 1 man tribes, please make sure its accurate.

[otomotopia]

I completely agree that no one should be allowed to grief in this fashion. However, the solution seems to give large tribes an opportunity to grief smaller tribes and soloers by letting them coordinate a setup that excludes everyone else from good spots, surrounds and entraps the small tribes and solo players, and controls all the rivers and roads, if there are enough of them to manage it, and there may well be. If that isn't a recipe for griefing, what is?

Why in gods name would we go through all that effort to entrap those people? We're not greifers, we're PvPers. There is a difference, trust me. And we're going for good spots, but that's what scouting is for. We had our digs, but we found better ones. Do the same, thats what this game was designed for.

[ifireallymust]

Very good, thank you for your quote. At least in this matter, you have proven that solo players were given access to something we would not originally have had. I believe in my case, if this restriction had remained, but two person tribes were permitted a tribe zone, I would have purchased a second account to preserve autonomy, which isn't really something I should spend money on right now.

Nevertheless, a majority of players in the posted poll are not going to be in the game on day 1 if their plans don't change and the delay is implemented. I still consider it an unfair and divisive way to prevent griefing. Zoning would, in my opinion, be better. Want some realism to go with it? Hunter gatherer and primitive farming communities that supplement their nutritional requirements with hunting and gathering can't form groups too large for the surrounding area to sustain them. So if an area had less game, fish, or plants necessary to the tribe, it would be more suited to smaller tribes or solo players. Just don't look too closely at that explanation for zoning and it won't fall apart!

[tredo]

Why in gods name would we go through all that effort to entrap those people? We're not greifers, we're PvPers. There is a difference, trust me.

You're right, there is a difference and that difference does exist in the game right now. There are those that would form tribes, and do just that, go through the trouble to do whatever it took to grief a player till they quit. I have no idea what drives a person to play a video game to that extent, however, those players are here in game at this very point in time. These players are the reason for all these changes. There has to be a way to combat those players that would ruin a game and cause chaos for the players, the guides, and the developers.

[otomotopia]

You're right, there is a difference and that difference does exist in the game right now. There are those that would form tribes, and do just that, go through the trouble to do whatever it took to grief a player till they quit. I have no idea what drives a person to play a video game to that extent, however, those players are here in game at this very point in time. These players are the reason for all these changes. There has to be a way to combat those players that would ruin a game and cause chaos for the players, the guides, and the developers.
Dude, I completely agree with this, and that's the best part of this. I think PvP is fun, and I think that PvE is fun. I see soloist's worries on being camped, and I do think they are legitimate concerns as well. In my opinion, this is a good change that effects the TEMPORARY measure that Jodi put in to combat the greifing, but now that its nearing release, resources need to be given to those who would have them either way and, really, need more of them. Your worries are Jodi's worries- he doesn't want greifing because its a game ruiner for a lot of people, as it is no longer 'fun.' If all the worries are about loosing saftey against greifing, you shouldn't be worried. Yes, you should always be worried about PvP, but not greifing.

[river111]

I dunno about everyone else but I plan on having a TON of fun for the 2-4 days I can't plant my totem. I will be rerolling like a fool, runing out to where I want to plant and filling basket after basket with saws and picks and shovel to sell to all the large tribe people who are already cutting down trees and carving rivers on thier plots. And when I'm done rerolling enough, and have the exact random recipes I want to start with, I'm gonna dig in like a badger on my desired plot swingin at any tribal member who gets within 200 yards of my plot. I may not be able to claim it for 2-4 days, but I'm damn sure gona make it a tough catch for anyone who wants it from me.

Oh and if your price is rigth I might let ya have it, say 4-6 months protection of me and my 'other plot' along with dibs on some trade deals later on. ;) All they are saying is I can't drop my totem, nobody said I can't go out and pick a spot and protect my land from claim jumpers.

[otomotopia]

I dunno about everyone else but I plan on having a TON of fun for the 2-4 days I can't plant my totem. I will be rerolling like a fool, runing out to where I want to plant and filling basket after basket with saws and picks and shovel to sell to all the large tribe people who are already cutting down trees and carving rivers on thier plots. And when I'm done rerolling enough, and have the exact random recipes I want to start with, I'm gonna dig in like a badger on my desired plot swingin at any tribal member who gets within 200 yards of my plot. I may not be able to claim it for 2-4 days, but I'm damn sure gona make it a tough catch for anyone who wants it from me.

Oh and if your price is rigth I might let ya have it, say 4-6 months protection of me and my 'other plot' along with dibs on some trade deals later on. ;) All they are saying is I can't drop my totem, nobody said I can't go out and pick a spot and protect my land from claim jumpers.
Damn straight! Seriously, this is exactly what I like to hear as a player in this game. Be an oppertunist, not a target. You've got the right idea friend.

[vorg]

Maybe the solution is to allow everyone to place where they want, and for the first 2 days just make Tribe totems trump homesteads?

A tribe wants your spot in the first 2 days and you have to move. That would prevent these socialites from plunking their tent in the middle of a field, and those that want to pick flowers alone can go into the woods and do that from Day 1.


That would be griefing. Someone plants a home stead, a tribe shouldn't be able to take it by planting a totem.

[rixk]

I find it interesting, why devs all cater to the tribes. From economical POV tribes are out of the big picture very shortly. Tribes gathering potential means, that all tradeskills can be powerleveled up in very short time. Now when we consider crafters output potential (single crafter could basically supply whole Xsyon given enough materials and there is no shortage of materials in a tribe, especially when they are given head start to claim best spots), it means, that a tribe will be self-sustainable in relatively short time and has NO reason whatsoever to interact with outside world. And I don't think devs want anyone to be self-sustainable, because everyone who is self-sustainable, is basically off the grid.

So, IMO it should be quite opposite, tribes should have worst areas possible, so they HAVE to trade with others(or fight for resources at later stages).

[bruisie159]

I dunno about everyone else but I plan on having a TON of fun for the 2-4 days I can't plant my totem. I will be rerolling like a fool, runing out to where I want to plant and filling basket after basket with saws and picks and shovel to sell to all the large tribe people who are already cutting down trees and carving rivers on thier plots. And when I'm done rerolling enough, and have the exact random recipes I want to start with, I'm gonna dig in like a badger on my desired plot swingin at any tribal member who gets within 200 yards of my plot. I may not be able to claim it for 2-4 days, but I'm damn sure gona make it a tough catch for anyone who wants it from me.

Oh and if your price is rigth I might let ya have it, say 4-6 months protection of me and my 'other plot' along with dibs on some trade deals later on. ;) All they are saying is I can't drop my totem, nobody said I can't go out and pick a spot and protect my land from claim jumpers.#

I think you'll find that difficult! It only takes a couple of seconds to drop a totem and then you're stuffed. cant even attack them cos they have a save zone and you dont!

[otomotopia]

#

I think you'll find that difficult! It only takes a couple of seconds to drop a totem and then you're stuffed. cant even attack them cos they have a save zone and you dont!
...they cannot hide forever...

[ifireallymust]

Why in gods name would we go through all that effort to entrap those people? We're not greifers, we're PvPers. There is a difference, trust me. And we're going for good spots, but that's what scouting is for. We had our digs, but we found better ones. Do the same, thats what this game was designed for.

You big tribes will do it for the same reasons you think small tribes and solo players will drop totems in areas that harm you. It works both ways, if you don't trust us not to grief, why would we trust you not to grief?

As far as I'm concerned, the members of large tribes are all a bunch of griefing sociopaths intent on hunting down easy prey for the loot and the laughs. They want everything easy, everything their way, everything to cater to their style of play. They don't care about anyone but themselves. It's obvious they were spoiled rotten as children. (In case you can't tell, that last part was directed at tommybomb, and not at you, but you get my point.)

[shukes]

I have just posted a looking for tribe thread, so as you can see im looking. But i also see this from a solo point of view and one thing bothers me.

Why arent these tribe leaders using thier heads? why do you tribes feel so threatened by the solo player? for gods sake this is meant to be sandbox...all start equal and then every man for themselves for the off. if certain players want to tribe up and make a town/city etc then great. But why do you need a headstart in a sandbox game?

Lol and your calling the soloers carebears haha! all they want is to start EQUAL! they are not asking for a headstart.
But them asking to start equal seems to have the tribes quaking in thier pants! damn this game is going to be great!
BTW i hope the tribe i join has a little more bottle than the ones posting here! No CAREBEAR tribes for me please.

[river111]

I'm starting to think the ones in the big tribes are the carebears and not the solo crafters. At least the solo crafters have a pair and willing to tough it out without special pre-conditions. Hey, ya know what, maybe we wont have our super sweet flat spot right next to a huge scrap pile to build on, but we will make it work anyway! Cause we can!! And we aren't afraid to try!!!!

Really, your gonna have 15 people to collect everything to build those 10 buildings, I'm gonna have....ME! What more you want?

[ifireallymust]

I'm starting to think the ones in the big tribes are the carebears and not the solo crafters. At least the solo crafters have a pair and willing to tough it out without special pre-conditions. Hey, ya know what, maybe we wont have our super sweet flat spot right next to a huge scrap pile to build on, but we will make it work anyway! Cause we can!! And we aren't afraid to try!!!!

Really, your gonna have 15 people to collect everything to build those 10 buildings, I'm gonna have....ME! What more you want?

I think what they really want is slaves, namely us would-be solo players and the members of small tribes to be forced to join their tribes and take orders from them and chop their firewood and build their buildings while they craft armor and weapons for pvp time.

[otomotopia]

You big tribes will do it for the same reasons you think small tribes and solo players will drop totems in areas that harm you. It works both ways, if you don't trust us not to grief, why would we trust you not to grief?

As far as I'm concerned, the members of large tribes are all a bunch of griefing sociopaths intent on hunting down easy prey for the loot and the laughs. They want everything easy, everything their way, everything to cater to their style of play. They don't care about anyone but themselves. It's obvious they were spoiled rotten as children. (In case you can't tell, that last part was directed at tommybomb, and not at you, but you get my point.)
First paragraph... What? We're worried that we won't get the resources we need to gather because instead of 12 people getting the maximum amount of land 12 times, we are 12 people getting the maximum amount of land once. So we look for scrap piles and territory that can support 12 people, and we put our totem there. Solo players simply consume slower then tribes.

And that as far as you're concerned thing is just... well its not true and biased. Ironically, the official changes that brought this whole discussion on were in Jodi's plans. On November 4th, he even mentioned homesteads by name.

I have just posted a looking for tribe thread, so as you can see im looking. But i also see this from a solo point of view and one thing bothers me.

Why arent these tribe leaders using thier heads? why do you tribes feel so threatened by the solo player? for gods sake this is meant to be sandbox...all start equal and then every man for themselves for the off. if certain players want to tribe up and make a town/city etc then great. But why do you need a headstart in a sandbox game?

Lol and your calling the soloers carebears haha! all they want is to start EQUAL! they are not asking for a headstart.
But them asking to start equal seems to have the tribes quaking in thier pants! damn this game is going to be great!
BTW i hope the tribe i join has a little more bottle than the ones posting here! No CAREBEAR tribes for me please.
Carebears refers to the mentality that PvP is bad when inside a game that has PvP. It's not a general insult and it doesn't apply to tribes.

One person should not be putting out the same amount of materials or have the same amount of influence in-game as 12 people working together. Solo means one person. A tribe is basically made up of a bunch of soloer's working together. Each member of the tribe should be equal to one soloer in output and influence.

I get that just because you've chosen to play an MMO doesn't mean you're required to group. And I get that you enjoy the gameplay of the MMO. But you shouldn't complain when the designer favors groups. Groups and player interaction are the two elements that define MMO's.

[shukes]

Otomotopia valid points.

I dont think the solo player should get as much as the collective though. I think they should get a smaller patch, a more limited patch. I just think they should get their smaller/limited patch at the same time that's all.

As for my Carebear comment i refer more to the different styles of PVPers. Having played a few PVP games now i have found many honourable PVPers that look more for the challenge of PVP and dont enjoy fighting players that are AFK or maybe tied up in crafting at the time. Yes if its a warring guild then they kill them whatever, but they enjoy challenging PVP. Where there are PVpers that only hang about newbie area's and such, or the spawn points! waiting to kill unequipped, afk players.

It just sounds to me that Tribes seem to think that they deserve a headstart due to thier numbers? that is not a sandbox to me :) i am all for limiting solers homesteads or tribal land but i dont agree with my tribe gaining a headstart over them, or getting preference over land. I want this to be a sandbox game, dont take away the core elements of a sandbox for the sake of making tribes happy.

If a solo player takes the land my tribe wants i will;

Talk to him and ask him if he minds moving a little further out so we can set our tribe. i will offer him assistance and friendship of our tribe in return.

I will offer him trade to move along.

If none of this works i will try to force him out.

If i cant force him out i will surround his land and make him live in his safe area :)

This is sandbox as it gives me all of these options. Sandbox is not limiting solo players for the good of tribes.
Well to me it's not :)

[otomotopia]

I agree with your points as well. I think we all put on our rage caps at the responses to these changes. I respect solo player's rights to enjoy the game, but I do not sit well with generalizing PvPer's as greifers, or even worse, suggesting that I support unwarranted and random greifing. See what happens when we're all logical? XD

[Gamefreak]

There's going to be plenty of good spots at release, I really don't see the problem. All he's doing is ensuring the people who have beta tested and helped him for the past 6 months keep the spot they've been doing so in. There's probably, within the current map size, about 100 different spots with the same characteristics. If you can't find one, it shouldn't be the problem of anyone else. If you are a solo player post release and you feel like your getting shafted, you are. The larger player base is not made up of solo players and if he put this in, there would be mass complaints the first day about griefers running rampant placing homesteads in the middle of a tribes designated location. What makes more sense? When the war system comes in, it's not like you're going to be able to tell a large tribe to screw off if they want your spot as a solo player anyway. Even if the war system doesn't allow people to simply declare war and run into your homestead to attempt to decapitate you, your going to get camped as soon as you walk out of your homestead, which has currently be reduced to the size of a small soccer (if your Euro, football) field. It would be more of a crime if he shafted the people that helped him test by having their area taken by some asshat who wants to put a homestead right in the middle of where they wanted to set up. Explain to me the logic in that?

I think I missed the post generalizing PvPers as griefers, however, I wouldn't be surprised if it was made. PvPers are PvPers, they fight other players. For me, the only reason I play MMOs is to PvP. Personally, I don't think its fun to run around killing people who have no chance of ever beating me, there is no risk and no challenge. Will I kill someone who is encumbered and has a lot of valuable gear on them? Your damn right I will, IF my tribe is at war with them. If not, it's just another person and I'll walk past them and be on my way. Does that make me a griefer? I certainly hope not, because I don't consider myself one. If you're at war with my tribe and your dumb enough to run around outside your tribal land with all your loot, there's only one way to learn.

To me, a griefer is some asshole who runs around the starter zones trying to gank newbs on the way to their new tribe, and remains there to camp them. PvPers and griefers are two separate things, while they both revolve around fighting other players, their code of conduct is different from one another. Usually PvPers strive to be the best in the game at combat, and killing defenseless newbs is proving that your more of an asshole than the best. Griefers kill anything in sight for the lols. That's about it.

It's like when PvPers characterize crafters as "carebears" and call them pussies because they won't do anything but that. While in reality, they contribute just as much to a game as PvPers. Both are stupid generalizations, both are immature.

[shukes]

Gamefreak

The problem is beta testing should be just that...beta testing. and while people take a lot of thier own spare time beta testing games ( i'm a particular avid beta tester myself ) they should understand that one release day comes....you start from a fresh clean slate! the same as the players that are join only for release.

For tribes to think that beta testing somehow gives them a right to "thier land" is just plain wrong in a sandbox game. None of us own any part of the game and there is no difference between the solo player stopping a tribe of 50 from grabbing thier favoured spot, from a tribe stopping a solo player getting his own preffered spot! one way more people dont get what they want...thats all.

Day one should be just that...day one! otherwise just simply dont wipe...whats the point in wiping if your going to let certain preffered customers have a headstart?

And if somone takes a tribes spot....then he simply got there first! is that a crime?

This is SANDBOX all welcome it and enjoy it :)

[otomotopia]

Actually, beta ends in two days. No more wipes after that, we're at pre-release and gold standard.

[shukes]

yes looking forward to it :)

Will be a crazy opening few hours i would have thought. everyone running straight to thier preffered locations to get that special place first!

But i really cant wait for a month into release to step back and take another look at the world once people have settled! will be good to compare screenshots, before and after!

[otomotopia]

Where did you find that and are there more? I wanna do some IRL trolling with my classmates today ^_^

[Kaisermn]

I honestly don't see what the problem is here. Both my friend and I are planning on playing as solo players. It will take us at least 2 days to find a good spot to set up a homestead. And I would not want to set one up on prime real estate next to a tribe of griefers and PvP nuts. Or for that matter anywhere on prime real estate where a group of 4 players can beat the crap outta my buddy and me. If I wanted to solo and not have t oworry about getting my ass kicked I'll play "a tale in the desert".

So, like I said, at least 2 days to find a great spot close to a tribe I can trade with, but well out of their way.

[ifireallymust]

I honestly don't see what the problem is here. Both my friend and I are planning on playing as solo players. It will take us at least 2 days to find a good spot to set up a homestead. And I would not want to set one up on prime real estate next to a tribe of griefers and PvP nuts. Or for that matter anywhere on prime real estate where a group of 4 players can beat the crap outta my buddy and me. If I wanted to solo and not have t oworry about getting my ass kicked I'll play "a tale in the desert".

So, like I said, at least 2 days to find a great spot close to a tribe I can trade with, but well out of their way.

It might take you two days, but at least theoritically, life will be much easier (and longer) for you and your buddy if everyone else is also busy trying to find a spot, instead of having their spots and trying to find easy prey!

[ifireallymust]

There is no way to transcribe the sound I made when I saw that.

This round goes to you.

[CrazyMoe]

If you want to play solo then you shouldn't play MMORPG at all. What's wrong with people today ?

[rixk]

If you want to play solo then you shouldn't play MMORPG at all. What's wrong with people today ?

Playing solo in MMO doesn't equal singleplayer game experience. You still are part of the community, you still interact with people you encounter(through trade, PvP etc).

[ifireallymust]

Playing solo in MMO doesn't equal singleplayer game experience. You still are part of the community, you still interact with people you encounter(through trade, PvP etc).

Thank you. Your answer is so much politer and shorter than mine would have been!

[galagah]

If you want to play solo then you shouldn't play MMORPG at all. What's wrong with people today ?

Since when did MMORPG = Have to Group ? ........................

A lot of players like myself enjoy the challenge of Solo play , while having " Interactions with other players online " ( hint for the idiot i posted , that = MMO ).

[Doc]

Solo players only hurt themselves by always being behind the curve. Who cares, really? Pwn them with ez.

When game so greatly favors groups, you should remember this when soloer pwns you.

Playing solo=hard mode, seems you just want an easy ride. Actually, it seems you admire those people, since you are afraid to do it yourself.

[orious13]

I think the game caters to all play types really... lol. At the moment anyway. If you say war is a subset of pvp.

[Doc]

I think the game caters to all play types really... lol. At the moment anyway. If you say war is a subset of pvp.

Try to play solo, try to play with tribe, see how you fare. Nothing to really wonder about that much, having more people makes things easier, not harder as some claim, i find that absurd concept. Its like claiming carrying 50 kg stone is easier solo than with 10 people.

Its a choice people make, but game should provide opportunity for everyone, Xsyon does it atm, and i hope it stays that way. Not like some MMOs.

[Dust]

I'm gonna butt in and say Mika is right. The best way for a player to learn to carry his own weight is to go solo because this is the hardest way and really, if your only experience in mmo are group plays, this is something you can't probably understand. No idea why you guys are trying to say that solo players are socially inept kind of person, the reality is the most effective way to progress is to learn the hard way. If some guild/tribe hold your hand all the way you don't get as much experience as solo'ers.

A mmo is like any other game to me, play on the harsdest settings from day 1, then reduce it if too insane. That way when you meet spoonfed players you simply own them.

[orious13]

Try to play solo, try to play with tribe, see how you fare. Nothing to really wonder about that much, having more people makes things easier, not harder as some claim, i find that absurd concept. Its like claiming carrying 50 kg stone is easier solo than with 10 people.

Its a choice people make, but game should provide opportunity for everyone, Xsyon does it atm, and i hope it stays that way. Not like some MMOs.

I had been solo for quite some time. The fact that you can make a "solo tribe a.k.a homestead" proves that solo is possible. Wait...who says more people makes things harder lol? Once I randomly met some people things got way easier, but like Dust said, I went solo to learn the game. I learn quicker by myself. I think solo should be harder as this is a fairly "realistic" style game.

Wait...first you talk like you're saying the game isn't meant for solo, but then you say that the game provides opportunity for everyone. What was actually your stance to what I said?

But tommy has some points that should be noted. The game is a world building game. It's not about hard mode or easy mode. It's how do you want to achieve what you want to achieve and when? It's not about noobs group up and pros go solo. Solo will be slower and harder, but you might have friends in tribes that help you so that you actually aren't slow. This would be "working smarter not harder", but also staying your-own-man...staying solo. The quickest way to achieve is to achieve with others, which is why there are very few hermits in the real world compared to people who join up for certain needs.

[Doc]

At this point in time i guess i have to remind you that its computer game and its main purpose is to provide entertainment to those who play it. Theres pretty much nothing to "win" or "lose" except bunch of pixels. If you take it beyond that, well, thats your problem really.


I had been solo for quite some time. The fact that you can make a "solo tribe a.k.a homestead" proves that solo is possible. Wait...who says more people makes things harder lol? Once I randomly met some people things got way easier, but like Dust said, I went solo to learn the game. I learn quicker by myself. I think solo should be harder as this is a fairly "realistic" style game.

He, he, didnt say you said so, just a general remark that is popping up in every MMO forum. Solo is by default harder and im glad Xsyon has a place for soloers.
And yes, by some peoples definfition you are "socially-inept", "anti-social", and youre doing it wrong :)


Wait...first you talk like you're saying the game isn't meant for solo, but then you say that the game provides opportunity for everyone. What was actually your stance to what I said?

Didint say that, just said game favors grouping, as its much easier with a group. Groups dont need any artificial bump, like some here demand.


But tommy has some points that should be noted. The game is a world building game. It's not about hard mode or easy mode. It's how do you want to achieve what you want to achieve and when? It's not about noobs group up and pros go solo. Solo will be slower and harder, but you might have friends in tribes that help you so that you actually aren't slow. This would be "working smarter not harder", but also staying your-own-man...staying solo. The quickest way to achieve is to achieve with others, which is why there are very few hermits in the real world compared to people who join up for certain needs.

He gets first point, but he cannot grasp the other point you make. Playing solo doesnt mean you never interact or do anything with other people ever, he just cant grasp the concept *shrug*

[Dust]

"it's just a game" technic

It is just a game, meant to be a distraction. Building a castle and owning faces are ultimatly un-important, it is simply the features and options of the game and it will not keep me awake at night. Why do you think I will find your tribe first and settle near it? For the fun of it, since rolling you over will be fun and I expect a fight. But then I log off and stop thinking about it, like most men do.

REAL MENS YO! (nice line there tommyboy)

[Banok]

For the first few days after the final wipe, only Tribes of 10 members will be able to place totems. I may lower this number, based on current tribe sizes after I examine the database.

This actually sucks we got 5 guys of our clan playing what are we supposed to do for the next 10 days? you can't really play the game unless you are on your own land cause you are so limited.

I mean 10 days of boring gameplay could actually put people off playing the game at all.

[Doc]

This actually sucks we got 5 guys of our clan playing what are we supposed to do for the next 10 days? you can't really play the game unless you are on your own land cause you are so limited.

I mean 10 days of boring gameplay could actually put people off playing the game at all.

It has bee changed, check out update thread under announcements :) Everyone gets to play from the start :)

[otomotopia]

This actually sucks we got 5 guys of our clan playing what are we supposed to do for the next 10 days? you can't really play the game unless you are on your own land cause you are so limited.

I mean 10 days of boring gameplay could actually put people off playing the game at all.

This was changed. Only people with 5 members in their tribe or more can claim land, rather then 10 or more.

[mgilbrtsn]

lol, one group seems to think the devs are catering to the solo crowd, while another group says that its catering to tribes. I think the devs are walking a fine line and think they are doing a good job. Obviously this is a very contentious issue, but I think it will work itself out when the mad rush happens and everyone goes their separate ways. There are places that will clearly attract large tribes and just as clear places that will attract the solo crowd. They reduced the tribe number to 5, so thats a concession. I'm not sure whether homesteads start immediately or not, but if they do, thats a concession to the solo players. Everyone seems to be a genius when they aren't in the drivers seat. While its a very good discussion, I think ppl are getting a bit too emotional and raging when its really counter producting.

[orious13]

~snippit~

Ok cool I get what you're saying.



Except where you say that going solo helps you learn the game faster. My experience has been that a greater number of people can touch more parts of the game, learn them and then disseminate that information to their peers. I suppose if the only successful method of retaining information available to you is to learn by doing, you would be right....

Yes... I very much enjoy the learn by doing tactic. Sometimes it's a real bitch... as I found out senior year of college when asked to help polar align a telescope in the afternoon at night and in negative degree weather. After we left at 2 a.m. we were pros. Nearly died of frost bite, but pros. However that WAS the only method in that situation. Had we have had a PBS video of the professor doing it in the day time instead of vague incomplete directions from a user manual, we'd have taken that in a heartbeat. We might not have been as good individually at the end without the trial and error, but the job would have been done with nearly the same quality and most likely quicker.

[ifireallymust]

No official word yet on homesteaders being able to place totems tomorrow with everyone else? I'm still confused. As usual.

[river111]

Looks like everyone places same time. At least thats the going rumor. And did you guys see a page or so back in this thread...Tommy posted an entire paragraph that had really good content!

[ifireallymust]

Looks like everyone places same time. At least thats the going rumor. And did you guys see a page or so back in this thread...Tommy posted an entire paragraph that had really good content!

I don't like rumor, I like answers.

[Banok]

It has bee changed, check out update thread under announcements :) Everyone gets to play from the start :)

actually nowhere in updates does it say anything about changing it. I do hope this is true but honestly curious how you come to think this, I might be hungover but nowhere does it rescind the original statement!

[ifireallymust]

actually nowhere in updates does it say anything about changing it. I do hope this is true but honestly curious how you come to think this, I might be hungover but nowhere does it rescind the original statement!

It is true, though. You can homestead, just as tribes can place totems. I hope homesteaders will try to leave the wide, flat areas for the tribes and pick spots up a little way in the mountains or otherwise too small for a tribe. There are plenty of junkpiles in the mountains if you look (much easier now that we have no snow!) so give the giant hippie communes a break. ;)

[Tehroth]

Because this is a MMOrpg not a single player rpg.

[Doc]

Because this is a MMOrpg not a single player rpg.

hmmm, really! And, unfortunately your statement have no significance whatsoever to the topic. As you can see, everyone can place their totem, and thats the only way it should be, thanks to Xsyon team!