large tribes losing space

[blake378]

since the patch today we have lost a lot of land area for tribe lands not sure if this is a bug or not but with 44members on totem and we are controlling less space than before im not sure if this is a bug or not. can anyone confirm?

[Escargot]

I can confirm our 9 member tribe lost space.

[VeryWiiTee]

They might have changed the radius in meters a member adds to your 'influence area'..
It would explain the decrease.

[TrackerEcanus]

Bug reports belong in the bug tracker. If you legitimately think this is a bug.

[shukes]

I think we will probably find the real tribe space system is being tested now rather than a totem just giving max space even if it has one member.

[Escargot]

Not an insignificant reduction either. About 50 feet. Put another way...by a quarter to a third size reduction. Seems a bit much when our area wasn't all that huge to begin with.

[esudar]

this is a problem because you actually want to build buildings on all that space or do you need a safe zone from horizon to horizon?

[blake378]

its actually a problem with building now we have to more our totem so that we can cover the area we want and we are losing a lot of actual building space

[dlld]

Bearing in mind the patch notes "Tribes require 5 members and require a maximum space between tribes."

It might not be within your safezone anymore but it should still be in your maximum area and thus can not be claimed by someone else, unless they reduced the maximum but as far as I can tell the maximum seems to be huuuge as I need half a zone of distance between my homestead and nearest tribe.

[Ex0dUs101]

Something significant has definitely changed, really throwing a spanner in the works with all plans made so far so layouts of the area we live in. Would like some Dev input on this.

[FabricSoftener]

I think we will probably find the real tribe space system is being tested now rather than a totem just giving max space even if it has one member.

When I started this past weekend my tribe of one had a very small lot, hopis tribe by comparision on the same day was huge. I would say more than 4 times the size as my one man tribe zone.

but again, that was this past weekend

[kiwiitis]

Pity the Dev's are not randomising the scavenge heaps after the last wipe.Everybody can then start as they should in an unexplored world.

[willbonney]

This is all due to the fact that now the "borders" between tribe space and homestead now has a minimum area.

Like so:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6953/homesteadtribe.png (http://img577.imageshack.us/i/homesteadtribe.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

I really hope this gets fixed, as he's just coded in the "choking" of larger tribes we didn't want.

Since homesteads have a minimum size, and don't shrink at all, they can cut into the growth of a larger tribe quite a lot.

[bodangly]

This is all due to the fact that now the "borders" between tribe space and homestead now has a minimum area.

Like so:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6953/homesteadtribe.png (http://img577.imageshack.us/i/homesteadtribe.png/)



Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

I really hope this gets fixed, as he's just coded in the "choking" of larger tribes we didn't want.

Since homesteads have a minimum size, and don't shrink at all, they can cut into the growth of a larger tribe quite a lot.

As far as I understand it that chart is inaccurate. A homestead must be placed outside the bounds of the MAXIMUM area of any nearby tribe. Therefore, it is impossible for a homestead placed after a tribe to encroach on that tribe's territory. A more accurate chart would be:

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6328/tribald.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/tribald.jpg/)

In this scenario, the only way for a homestead to encroach on a tribe's land is if the homestead is placed first. If thats the case, then it wasn't tribal land yet now was it? Sure homesteaders can eat up good spots but there is nothing unfair about that, especially if we are only allowed to either have a homestead or belong to a tribe.

[willbonney]

You're incorrect sadly. Isn't how it is currently working.

Right now, one side of my "radius" is 125, other is 72. That's with a 20 man tribe.

125 side, no one there, 72 side, goes in the directoin of a 1 man homestead.

Come see and do measurements in game if you want, the evidence is quite clear. Did the algebra/geometry to try to get it right, i'm just not a great artist tbh.

[bodangly]

You're incorrect sadly. Isn't how it is currently working.

Right now, one side of my "radius" is 125, other is 72. That's with a 20 man tribe.

125 side, no one there, 72 side, goes in the directoin of a 1 man homestead.

Come see and do measurements in game if you want, the evidence is quite clear. Did the algebra/geometry to try to get it right, i'm just not a great artist tbh.

Ouch well yeah you just described an ellipse. What's interesting about that is if its a true ellipse then a homestead will take up a disproportionate amount of land as compared to the actual size of the homestead. Are you sure the radius of 72 was a true radius, and not just a piece of land cut out from your tribal area (meaning the "radius" would go up as you moved along the circumference of the homestead)? Either way is obviously not ideal, just trying to understand visually.

[willbonney]

Not sure at the moment whether the 1 man tribe near me, was set-up before or after these changes to be honest (as tribe or homestead).

But yes, the numbers "were" accurate, we've added a few mor to the tribe, remeasuring now.

[BigCountry]

So in other words.....large tribes are going to want to make sure they place where no homesteads are located. Or else they risk sacrificing land to the presently place homestead blocking the full radius. I think that is how I am reading this.

[Armand]

We actually lost a swath of land that was nowhere near any homesteads or 1 man tribes. Looks like we just lost some diameter for whatever reason.

[willbonney]

I read it as griefers being able to build close to a "building" tribe that hasn't yet reached maximum size membership/claim wise (think it's 50, dunno), "choking" off the area of growth of that still growing tribe.

[willbonney]

We actually lost a swath of land that was nowhere near any homesteads or 1 man tribes. Looks like we just lost some diameter for whatever reason.

aye, looks like "area" of circle was cut down a bit as well. That I'm not too worried about.

[vorg]

We need to find out if there is any buffer zone for homesteads. We found out they homestead is 30m radius, but was not able to place a second 60m away. Don't know if it was another tribe long way off or a buffer requirement on homesteads.

[bodangly]

We need to find out if there is any buffer zone for homesteads. We found out they homestead is 30m radius, but was not able to place a second 60m away. Don't know if it was another tribe long way off or a buffer requirement on homesteads.

Yeah, there are too many variables going on here right now. I think we'd be best served with an official response from a developer/staff member.

[willbonney]

Ah, have found it really, is all due to the old placement of 1 man tribes and other tribes. There is a much better system in place now it seems, is just most of the "existing" stuff since update has things skewed quite a lot right now.

[Chavoda]

I would like to remind people that its currently not possible to drop a homestead were once you had a tribe. a homestead can be placed outside max ranges of current tribes.
the current eating of tribe area's seem to be caused by 1 man tribes that were placed after the last wipe and now are creating some mess up whit larger tribes. colliding the max borders or something and reducing those equally.

that is at least what I found out so far, this could be wrong but like none here I have no access to hard data. a simple clean wipe could fix this mess ( as we all would be bound to the new system) or there might be a bug that needs fixing.

[blake378]

max tribe size is going to be 220 meters which really throws a kink in our layout plans also i would like to see this resolved

[Xsyon]

bodangly's diagram is correct. I had to make some fixes in the code so that homesteads can be placed 60 meters totem to totem. This will be in the next update.

The maximum tribe radius did not shrink, however it grows a bit slower towards this maximum which is why some tribes are a bit smaller now. I am reviewing and making some slight adjustments right now.

[bodangly]

Thank you that is great news, nips those concerns in the bud.

[Armand]

bodangly's diagram is correct. I had to make some fixes in the code so that homesteads can be placed 60 meters totem to totem. This will be in the next update.

The maximum tribe radius did not shrink, however it grows a bit slower towards this maximum which is why some tribes are a bit smaller now. I am reviewing and making some slight adjustments right now.

I hope to see a mechanic that accommodates large tribes. The current lack of an alliance feature makes even splitting highly populated tribes a big problem.

[Drevar]

There appears to be an issue where old tribal areas "stick" even though a totem no longer exists. I cannot place a homestead in an area where there was previously a totem (not my own, someone else's). Thier stuff is still there and i have full access to containers and projects, but I get no "Entering X" message and cannot drop a homestead anywhere within the old boundaries or buffer of the old tribe. Dunno if it had to do with the conversion to homesteads or what, but will most likely be cleared with a wipe since all totem structures will be on the same page.

Drev

[Doc]

Yah, i had a tribe totem up, destroyed it and wanted to plant homestead/(and later)tribe totem on exact same place and failed (and surrounding area after fail). I know position of other tribe totems around and there were no new ones (someold ones not even there any more).