Should players be allowed to build anywhere?

[mrcalhou]

If they are also made destroyable.

Personally, I think the idea of tribal zones limits player freedom. Why should someone not be allowed to build structures once all the land has been "claimed?"

[Tehralph]

Only if buldings outside of territory can be destroyed. If they can, I see no problem with this.

[Niburu]

No, i like how it is

[orious13]

Once buildings can be destroyed yes until then no. I think that's what is planned... maybe.

[CrazyMoe]

I think it was said that the plan is to remove safe zones after the Prelude.

[Stundorn]

we want to setup a nice village for us and vistors so no, because this could destroy indivdual villages atmosphere.

[mrcalhou]

we want to setup a nice village for us and vistors so no, because this could destroy indivdual villages atmosphere.

I can see where you are coming from, but I don't agree with it. It's the whole, "we have ours so you can't have yours" mentality. I think that if you want to have a village you should also have to defend it. I don't think that buildings should be easily destroyed though. It should take a good bit of effort.

[Bridger]

I too seem to remember reading somewhere that the plan is for buildings to eventually be subject to destruction.

And I'm okay with that with the same stipulation as mrcalhou: building destruction should require significant effort. I would point to EVE Online as a good MMO model for this. You can destroy the other guy's infrastructure, IF you're prepared, organized and strong enough to tackle the project. Otherwise, you get your head handed to you.

[Saorlan]

You can't build anywhere? First I have heard of that.

Of course you should be able to build anywhere. One of the negatives in Darkfall was that the so called player cities were already built and housing did not exist apart from these prebuilt villages.

It is essential that you should be able to build anywhere.

If buildings are destructible then there is no problem with this.

I can not believe people want yet more artificial barriers in this game ! How you going to explain that you can't build ? "God says you can ont build here"? WTF get serious people. Stop with all the concrete lines in my sandbox already.

[Jadzia]

You can't build anywhere? First I have heard of that.

Of course you should be able to build anywhere. One of the negatives in Darkfall was that the so called player cities were already built and housing did not exist apart from these prebuilt villages.

It is essential that you should be able to build anywhere.

If buildings are destructible then there is no problem with this.

I can not believe people want yet more artificial barriers in this game ! How you going to explain that you can't build ? "God says you can ont build here"? WTF get serious people. Stop with all the concrete lines in my sandbox already.

You weren't aware that you can only build inside tribe zones or homesteads ?

[dlld]

You can theoretically build anywhere as long as it's in the radius of your tribe/homestead. Fine by me, would be stupid to have random abandoned shacks all over the place.

[Larsa]

I've voted a strong no.

Sometimes it's necessary to limit player freedom because too many people can't handle freedom. If you allow this it won't take long until someone has the bright idea to terraform the words <expletive> into the landscape or gets some other equally disturbing idea.

[Tom316]

I think it was said that the plan is to remove safe zones after the Prelude.

Last i heard ingame from Xyson was that there was no plans to remove tribal safe zones, before, during or after Prelude. Alot of people seem to be confusing Tribal Warfare meaning you can capture other peoples main tribal areas. It has ONLY been stated that Tribal Warfare will revolve around EXPANSION Tribal Totems. In-game Xyson seemed fairly strong on the point that he doesnt want peoples main basis to be attacked and destroyable. He seemed really clear that the game revolves around rebuilding and building up a world with pvp being second to that and not interfering with that goal.

Of course that may change but I have a feeling that alot of people coming in here wanting a true FFA pvp world where they can destroy others work and so on, is going to be severally disabled. Rather now or later once Tribal Warfare is put in.

As far as being able to build everywhere. I doesnt really fit into the current setup of the game. If the game was built from the ground up with that in mind like Wurm Online then yeah. But thats not exactly the case here. With Tribes and Homesteads the ideal seems more to be of rebuilding a community style world then a bunch of indivial houses tossed all around the land.

Not to mention in order to allow houses to be built anywhere you would need to allow terraforming anywhere. And sadly with todays gamers thats only going to lead to alot of greifing and people building large pits around others lands and such.

[tilla]

Not to mention in order to allow houses to be built anywhere you would need to allow terraforming anywhere. And sadly with todays gamers thats only going to lead to alot of greifing and people building large pits around others lands and such.

You have a problem with our mighty ancestral Great Penis Lake? :P

[TheMap]

I vote no, it will change later.

[Zephyr]

I voted yes, I like the idea of a free-form world like WURM. Sure, you get some DBs doing stuff like digging pits near your home, dropping sand on your fields, or carving rude words into the landscape, but (a) you can undo these, usually faster and easier than it took to create them, and (b) if left alone, natural processes should slowly return these things to a "natural state."

So it would be disappointing if we can't build anywhere, but I could live with it. How about this for a compromise: make a "mini-totem" available for people who just want their own homestead or maybe to build a small bolt-hole off in the woods.

[Stundorn]

I can see where you are coming from, but I don't agree with it. It's the whole, "we have ours so you can't have yours" mentality. I think that if you want to have a village you should also have to defend it. I don't think that buildings should be easily destroyed though. It should take a good bit of effort.
sorry its not about we have and you don't, it's more about of we want this and if you don't like it go elsewhere and did it your way.
I am fine with destruction of tribal constructions after someone declares war to us and we will have time to prepare to defend.
Otherwise i see no challenge nor for attackers neither for defenders.


I've voted a strong no.
Sometimes it's necessary to limit player freedom because too many people can't handle freedom. If you allow this it won't take long until someone has the bright idea to terraform the words <expletive> into the landscape or gets some other equally disturbing idea.
this

[Deacon]

I refrained from voting. While I hate limitations, I know that no matter what most say, there'd be the jerks who just want to run around and destroy everything in sight or mess it up to be a pain in the ass to others. Remember, when you give unlimited freedom to those who just wish for a quaity game, you also give it to those whose only thrill in life is being an ass-hat.

[Dirt]

this.

[river111]

Not understanding the issue here at all. You can build anything anywhere now as long as it isnt on someone elses land. If you want, you can set your totem up on the edge of a river, build a log cabin for your fishing and hunting hut, pick up your totem and move it to where you want to be later on. The building will stay behind and work just like any other building does currently, just on now public land. I understand what you want though, you want to build anything anywhere without limitations, and no I dont agree with that. There has to be some downside to being able to do it (wasting 6 hours to move your totem) otherwise people will build crap everywhere and make the place look like hell in a month.

Even Jooky pointed out he cant allow this because people could build walls around your plot without you being able to stop them. And thats just bad anyway you think of it.


How about this for a compromise: make a "mini-totem" available for people who just want their own homestead or maybe to build a small bolt-hole off in the woods.

And really, are you guys even playing this game? We already have homestead totems in game. You know its very difficult to discuss topics with people who dont even read the update notes for the game let alone when they dont even play. Come on, at least try and become a part of the community before you start trying to change it.

[mrcalhou]

My issue with not being able to build anywhere is that I can't build if someone already laid claim to the area. I'm worried that eventually all the land will be taken and there will be no place left for new players. Also, it'd be really crappy if someone places their permenent tribe over the spawn point of some really rare and needed material. Hypothetically speaking of course.

[mrcalhou]

Not understanding the issue here at all. You can build anything anywhere now as long as it isnt on someone elses land. If you want, you can set your totem up on the edge of a river, build a log cabin for your fishing and hunting hut, pick up your totem and move it to where you want to be later on. The building will stay behind and work just like any other building does currently, just on now public land. I understand what you want though, you want to build anything anywhere without limitations, and no I dont agree with that. There has to be some downside to being able to do it (wasting 6 hours to move your totem) otherwise people will build crap everywhere and make the place look like hell in a month.

Even Jooky pointed out he cant allow this because people could build walls around your plot without you being able to stop them. And thats just bad anyway you think of it.



And really, are you guys even playing this game? We already have homestead totems in game. You know its very difficult to discuss topics with people who dont even read the update notes for the game let alone when they dont even play. Come on, at least try and become a part of the community before you start trying to change it.

So, people will just have to wait 6 hours. It'll just take a bit longer before the game looks "like hell." If they build a wall around my plot, then I'll build stairs over their wall. Or destroy it.

[Larsa]

My issue with not being able to build anywhere is that I can't build if someone already laid claim to the area. You can't be serious about that, you complain that you cannot build on other people's land?


I'm worried that eventually all the land will be taken and there will be no place left for new players. That's what the mist is for, once the existing lands get claimed new lands in the current mist regions are opened up.


Also, it'd be really crappy if someone places their permenent tribe over the spawn point of some really rare and needed material. Hypothetically speaking of course.There aren't rare spawn points in this game.

[mrcalhou]

You can't be serious about that, you complain that you cannot build on other people's land?
It's after an apocalypse. If they want it to be "their" land then they should be able to defend it. There are no police officers.


That's what the mist is for, once the existing lands get claimed new lands in the current mist regions are opened up.
Still finite.


There aren't rare spawn points in this game.
Yet.

[river111]

Why are we bothering to discuss with this person, isnt' it obvious they have zero knowledge of the game? I mean its like arguing with a 2 year old who keeps coming back with 'but why???'. We are telling you how it is, your telling us how you think it might maybe someday hypothitically be on a different planet in some magical reality. Come on, play the game, read about the game, something, anything to make yourself sound like your trying to understand the game before you keep putting this stuff out here.

[mrcalhou]

I'm sorry that you lack the ability to take current information and extrapolate that information to the future. I'm also sorry that I've been through quite a few games where some of the systems didn't make much sense. I've already acknowledged that I understand why the system is the way it is, but that I do not agree with it because of problems that could arise in the future. And, well, it seems that some of the issues that I brought up are already being a problem. Otherwise some of the players wouldn't be clamoring for a server wipe so that they can get a "fair" chance at claiming land. I'd also like to point out the the future plans for this game change constantly based on player-discussion. Sometimes I might not be up to speed with the new current direction Jooky wants to the take the game, but last I heard they were planning on making region specific nodes.

Oh, and I think you kept meaning "you're." Your is not the contraction for you are.

[river111]

I'm sorry that you lack the ability to take current information and extrapolate that information to the future. I'm also sorry that I've been through quite a few games where some of the systems didn't make much sense. I've already acknowledged that I understand why the system is the way it is, but that I do not agree with it because of problems that could arise in the future. And, well, it seems that some of the issues that I brought up are already being a problem. Otherwise some of the players wouldn't be clamoring for a server wipe so that they can get a "fair" chance at claiming land. I'd also like to point out the the future plans for this game change constantly based on player-discussion. Sometimes I might not be up to speed with the new current direction Jooky wants to the take the game, but last I heard they were planning on making region specific nodes.

Oh, and I think you kept meaning "you're." Your is not the contraction for you are.

Expected nothing less from you man, really. Oh and lets start this off with your verbal correction. I purposely use Your in every context on this particular forum persona, its part of the character for me. You may or may not be smart enough to grasp that concept but hey, too bad.

My comment of why we are even bother to tlak to you is because every post up to this point your basis for argument, every point your making, is false based on how the game already functions. You lack any knowledge of this game, and therefor your extrapolated crap is crap from the start. You have to have a common base in order to hypothosize a possible outcome. In this case, you have no clue where the current game is in order to guess where it may be headed. This is your problem. What you are doing is guessing what you think the current game system is, and then further guessing where you think it will go from your guesses. Just makes you look like a fucking idiot honestly. But hey, thats your right, please disregard my previous quesiton, and this one too. Continue on you rant about the possabilities of life on Venus.

[mgilbrtsn]

I think this is a pretty interesting discussion. In theory I am definitely on the side that you should be able to build anywhere you want, except in someone else's tribal area. However, the practical side of me says this wouldn't be a good idea for the many reasons already stated in this thread. Which side wins out. The theoretical or the practical... In this case, I think the practical wins out. IMO too many ppl would abuse the freedom and ruin the game for the majority. I might change my opinion once I know the specifics of how tribal warfare works and how/if destruction of constructions rules are.

Minor note: You're, Your, etc is a petty tactic. I believe ppl know what the meaning is when ppl post their views. In this case, lets go with the spirit of the discussion and not worry/criticize about grammatical issues.

[mrcalhou]

You're and your is a pet peeve of mine. I teach high school chemistry and it drives me bonkers when I assign writing assignments and the students use your for everything. It also drives me nuts when I see "would of", "could of", or "should of" instead of would have or would've.

As far as the idea of abuse, I can see that. I'm just of the opinion that it would be better in the long run. Maybe not now, but eventually. I believe that it'd make the game more tactical. I also know that the game is a "builder's game" and that is fine, but they could just tweak it so that buildings have insane amounts of hit points and take a while to build. And then you can have two new skills: Reinforcement and repair.

[Doc]

1. EvE has huge safe zone
2. In EvE, when 2 fleets collide, if capital ships start popping, both attacker and defender will suffer huge losses that will set them back for months, and open them to attacks by others since their defences are sbstancially weakened, in Xsyon theres absolutely no risk for the attacker, if you fail you just clean dirt from your face and you are ready to go again. Until attackers can suffer huge losses and have adequate consequences if they fail safe zones must stay in place
3. Good PvP can be had from claiming land in the future, where current safe zones act as EvE high-sec, while rest of the world acts as low-0 area.

[bruisie159]

. Also, it'd be really crappy if someone places their permenent tribe over the spawn point of some really rare and needed material. Hypothetically speaking of course.

This should be solved SWG style. There SHOULD be rare and "special" spawns but they should be dynamic. Once a set amount have been harvested its gone. Of course after a pre determined time a new spawn can appear somewhere else to be discovered again. This speads the love a bit and promotes exploration.

[bruisie159]

Expected nothing less from you man, really. Oh and lets start this off with your verbal correction. I purposely use Your in every context on this particular forum persona, its part of the character for me. You may or may not be smart enough to grasp that concept but hey, too bad.
.

hehe just noticed this, although i too am not a fan of people correcting grammar and spelling on gaming forums, and as a teacher mrcalhou you should be aware some people may have good reason, dyslexia for example. However! River, you actually have a "persona" that you use on forums that includes traits such as poor grammar and spelling? I think ive heard it all now!

[mrcalhou]

1. EvE has huge safe zone
2. In EvE, when 2 fleets collide, if capital ships start popping, both attacker and defender will suffer huge losses that will set them back for months, and open them to attacks by others since their defences are sbstancially weakened, in Xsyon theres absolutely no risk for the attacker, if you fail you just clean dirt from your face and you are ready to go again. Until attackers can suffer huge losses and have adequate consequences if they fail safe zones must stay in place
3. Good PvP can be had from claiming land in the future, where current safe zones act as EvE high-sec, while rest of the world acts as low-0 area.

Actually, coming from an Eve background, I absolutely believe in safe-zones. But all the zones in Eve that allow player-built structures are also PvP zones, as far as I know.


This should be solved SWG style. There SHOULD be rare and "special" spawns but they should be dynamic. Once a set amount have been harvested its gone. Of course after a pre determined time a new spawn can appear somewhere else to be discovered again. This speads the love a bit and promotes exploration.

Hmm, that's a good idea. I actually think I read that on these forums somewhere.


hehe just noticed this, although i too am not a fan of people correcting grammar and spelling on gaming forums, and as a teacher mrcalhou you should be aware some people may have good reason, dyslexia for example. However! River, you actually have a "persona" that you use on forums that includes traits such as poor grammar and spelling? I think ive heard it all now!

You are certainly correct about people having different learning modalities and needs when it comes to accomodating individual differences with regards to learning styles and disabilities; however the "your" thing is so prevelent on the internet that I would not think of it as being part of a disability. I apply the same thing to any "txting" or "internet" speech that students use in writing. For the most part I do not take off points for grammar issues, since I'm not an English teacher and my grammar isn't perfect, unless the grammar issues are so bad that I cannot understand what the student is trying to get across. I don't take off if the student uses "your" for "you're" but they do get a nice little comment about it. Then again, I also comment that they really should stop addressing the audience in their writing.

[Kyledoubleyou]

I agree with being able to build anywhere, as long as it's not on claimed tribe territory and only once buildings can be destroyed. Also, please let us replant trees?! :D

[bruisie159]

the "your" thing is so prevelent on the internet that I would not think of it as being part of a disability. I apply the same thing to any "txting" or "internet" speech that students use in writing. For the most part I do not take off points for grammar issues, since I'm not an English teacher and my grammar isn't perfect, unless the grammar issues are so bad that I cannot understand what the student is trying to get across. I don't take off if the student uses "your" for "you're" but they do get a nice little comment about it. Then again, I also comment that they really should stop addressing the audience in their writing.

Your probably right ;). You should check out willbonney's "quotation marks"

[Doc]

Actually, coming from an Eve background, I absolutely believe in safe-zones. But all the zones in Eve that allow player-built structures are also PvP zones, as far as I know.

I am pretty sure that after a while, town in current area will be there just to look pretty, and new resources will be available in "new land" by claiming land, and tribes will fight over that, build forts etc.

Problem is - theres no safe zones, towns or anything else unless player build em. If players have no ineterst in building them, world will be pretty barren. I say leave current area as is (high sec EvE), and make warfare around new lands and resources. (0.0 EvE)

I dont really get what the problem is, in other games you have "safe NPC towns" in Xsyon you have "safe player built towns". theres = between them.


Hmm, that's a good idea. I actually think I read that on these forums somewhere.

Im actually more for static spawns that tribes want to hold an defend. Build warfare arond that.

[bruisie159]

I am pretty sure that after a while, town in current area will be there just to look pretty, and new resources will be available in "new land" by claiming land, and tribes will fight over that, build forts etc.

Problem is - theres no safe zones, towns or anything else unless player build em. If players have no ineterst in building them, world will be pretty barren. I say leave current area as is (high sec EvE), and make warfare around new lands and resources. (0.0 EvE)



Im actually more for static spawns that tribes want to hold an defend. Build warfare arond that.

Maybe a mixture of the 2 options would work well. Static spawns of standard resources but make some area specific and dynamic spawns of other things, migratory animals/fish for example or herbs useful in cooking/healing

[Doc]

Maybe a mixture of the 2 options would work well. Static spawns of standard resources but make some area specific and dynamic spawns of other things, migratory animals/fish for example or herbs useful in cooking/healing

Yah, could work, could even benefit soloers that happen to stumble on random/dynamic spawn and trade with tribes. Could be interesting.

Heh, were offtopic btw ;P

[mrcalhou]

Your probably right ;). You should check out willbonney's "quotation marks"

/twitch

[river111]

hehe just noticed this, although i too am not a fan of people correcting grammar and spelling on gaming forums, and as a teacher mrcalhou you should be aware some people may have good reason, dyslexia for example. However! River, you actually have a "persona" that you use on forums that includes traits such as poor grammar and spelling? I think ive heard it all now!

Haha yeah I actually do. But if you think about it, really think about it, everyone in real life has thier own style right. The body ticks, the gestures (talking with your hands alot), The pauses we use when we speak, even the tone of our voice. These things help identify who we are when we speak and when we do these things it adds to the flavor, the style of our communications. However, on a purely writen, typed communications mediam like this, we dont have those things so our flavour goes away. All I do is try and bring that flavor out by giving a peronsa to my typing.

Using incorrect grammar is just like using it when you speak. If I were to put 'and' in alot you would get the idea I think. I just chose to do the your and I do a lot more y'all in my conversations, really is another one I like to use on this persona. Sometimes I use dude for them other times its man. One I transpose letters all the time and one I intentionally leave the g off every ing. In this case I like using your instead of you're as a way to get at some people. Sorry mrcalhou, but yeah it really was an intential thing to do exactly what it is doing to you.

Its all about adding to the who I am. But yeah I know, most people do not bother to add flavor to thier typing, they just type who they are where they are. I am not in game who I am in forums unless I really do want that to be the case. Its a choice by me, one I think does me well.

[Kordesh]

If the tribe can do something to remove the building from the land if they want, I don't see a reason why not. An artificial restriction like only being able to build on tribal land that is yours, period, I think goes against the spirit of the game.

[wolfmoonstrike]

I didn't feel like reading through all the post so I apologize.

I honestly think you should be able to build certain things anywhere.
Homes/buildings, walls, defensive things, ect. should only be on tribal land.

But roads and buildings that have a true purpose should be allowed outside your zone.

By buildings with a true purpose I mean things like a building that is meant to start a mining tunnel(when mining is implemented.)

But roads need to be built anywhere imo.