We will need another wipe

[Shaggy]

We will need a new wipe after all this... it won't be fair to start now because some people were able to get in before others. I even got my tribe's totem up and I don't think it's fair to people who came in after all this lag crap started.

[Ex0dUs101]

Theres already a post trying to claim this, everyones under the same conditions, that by definition is fair.

[cyriun]

nope

[Metsuro]

no those who are being bug should be deleted nough said.

[KeithStone]

Theres already a post trying to claim this, everyones under the same conditions, that by definition is fair.

if are able to set a totem and someone else is not, then how is that fair?

[ifireallymust]

If it's true that the database is messed up and people are really losing items out of inventory and placing totems that aren't really there, then yeah, it will need to be reset, so I voted yes.

[Shaggy]

So do you guys honestly expect them to not need to do a wipe after all these problems?

/sigh

[ifireallymust]

Bye bye awl, needle, and angler's rod recipes. I shall miss you, but that's just how launch days go.

[Tehralph]

Theres a large delay in what you do, and when the server accepts it. Everyone is under these conditions, the people who stood around not spamming commands for 15 mins while they got people into the tribes deserve the land they got. Slow and steady wins the race. Now quit whining for a rematch.

[Shaggy]

Tehralph, I'm one of those people and I still think we'll logically need a wipe. Not even just for fairness reasons, but the database is going to be pretty screwed up after all of this. It's most likely going to become a necessity.

[DaAzub]

I don't understand what everyone is complaining about, everyone was lagging and crashing at the same time, so it was even from the start when the server was up. So point made. Stop your yapping about another server wipe, nobody will like it and neither would I.

[Tehralph]

Tehralph, I'm one of those people and I still think we'll logically need a wipe. Not even just for fairness reasons, but the database is going to be pretty screwed up after all of this. It's most likely going to become a necessity.

They can give everyone tools back and sort through the database. A wipe is not necessary and would only make a lot more people mad.

[Gypsy]

No wipe thank you. Everyone is lagging and having problems...welcome to launch day.

[mgilbrtsn]

Everyone is starting with the same handicap. Let the games commence without interference.

[Tehralph]

Are you dumb? People couldn't stand around because they kept getting booted from the server. Standing around for 15 minutes waiting for a command to go through wasn't possible. And every time you were booted you were returned to the starting location.

Yes, there were rollbacks early on, but the server has been standing for about an hour now. You would know that if you didnt ragequit the first 20 minutes.

[Shaggy]

Seriously?

Tribe names are changing left and right, people are getting booted and logging back in to see they are in a different tribe, etc etc.....

Do you honestly expect the database to be salvageable at this point? I just don't see how you dont see that there will be the need for a wipe, not even mentioning the fact that many people aren't even able to play which makes it unfair...

[BigCountry]

exactly. a wipe would just restart this entire cycle.

get some beer, and have your friends stick with it. we just placed our totem. it was hell but we did it. you can do it.

[DonMaj]

If there will be wipe I would like to get our place back. We were walking there almost 3h, and now some lone wolf will take it? No. F.....g. Way.

[Viper66]

It may be a mute point,, complete wipe may be only way to get it to work,, i hope not but who knows..

[bcrfan]

I'm against it, but it's happening ;(

[Kinslayer]

Without reading the thread, just the OP. I'm not prepared to accept another Year 0 wipe after working our asses off against the server for 4.5 hrs. A year 0 wipe is a year 0 wipe. What do you want, a Year 0 Day 3 wipe?

[Bisjul]

The lag stuff happened from the start.

It was fair.

As fair as a start like this could be.

My group has only seen one other totem even remotely near us -- And it was a homestead.

Spots are out there...

[FoxAlpha]

The major problem is that the Database is messed up totally.

After 2 1/2 hours we were able to create our tribe and place our totem, but now we are all in different tribes and our totem belongs to nobody. I think these things make a wipe necessary, otherwise we could expect Database errors at much later points in game which would cause MUCH more trouble than a wipe right now.

Regarding the way some people "discuss" here I can only say, that I do not believe some have ultimate wisdom as they claim to have and it is funny to watch it. Be aware not to make a "running gag" out of yourselves before the game has even started. At least it was fun for me to read...

*grabs some popcorn*

[BigCountry]

why did the DB get f up?

/face palm

we all just wasted 5 hours.....man

[Tehralph]

why did the DB get f up?

/face palm

we all just wasted 5 hours.....man

No official word has claimed anything wrong with the database. What were experiencing is probably just server delays causing things to happen long after someone has done them, and then people complaining because they dont remember frantically clicking around. As for the tribe thing, the server is very laggy, there are multiple explanations for such a thing that doesnt involve a theory that goes along the lines of "OMFG RUINED DATABASE WIPE NAO!".

[kress]

No need to wipe.

[Vidious_Pawn]

Just because you make a poll doesn't mean you are right to assume that we need to wipe because you didn't place your totem before someone else claimed an area of land.

[Shaggy]

Funny, because I already stated earlier in this thread I got my totem up hours ago, way before the lag problems started. I'm saying that we need a wipe even though I am one of those tribe leaders.

[FoxAlpha]

You perfectly matched my expectations Tehralph.

However:

It is not set in stone that the whole database is messed up, but there is a great chance it may have effect on other database rows which may not even be used at this early stage of the game. I, with my limited knowledge of databases, think it is better to prevent bigger problems which may occur in future. Nobody looses something with a wipe, keep in mind it is still a game.

It is interesting that you of all people feel so insulted (which was not my intention) by my little footnote, but now you said your little pearl of wisodm and I hope you feel better now.

[BigCountry]

We busted ass, fought the lag, placed the totem. Now we are all in different tribes and our totem keeps changing names. lol

How is that not a DB issue?

/sigh

[Tehralph]

You perfectly matched my expectations Tehralph.

However:

It is not set in stone that the whole database is messed up, but there is a great chance it may have effect on other database rows which may not even be used at this early stage of the game. I, with my limited knowledge of databases, think it is better to prevent bigger problems which may occur in future. Nobody looses something with a wipe, keep in mind it is still a game.

It is interesting that you of all people feel so insulted (which was not my intention) by my little footnote, but now you said your little pearl of wisodm and I hope you feel better now.

Your logic has flaw. Wipe when the database has issues. Well, 5 minutes or 5 weeks, it has an impact. Do you suggest we wipe EVERY time we have an issue with the game? It cant be done, and not making exceptions is what every company needs to stick to.

[Armand]

If there actually are database issues requiring a wipe, I would hope someone was on the ball enough to tell us before we sink more time into this mess.

[Shaggy]

Check Jooky's new edition to the Updates thread...

[SeraphimDima]

Your logic has flaw. Wipe when the database has issues. Well, 5 minutes or 5 weeks, it has an impact. Do you suggest we wipe EVERY time we have an issue with the game? It cant be done, and not making exceptions is what every company needs to stick to.

No one suggests to wipe every time there is an issue with a game and yes, 5 min or 5 weeks wipe have an impact. However, wiping a DB after 5min has much lesser impact on a everyone than after 5 weeks. It is simply safer to choose to do it now while no one progressed anywhere yet then be forced to do so in 5 weeks because of some serious flaw which was not noticed before. No, not making exceptions is not what companies need to do. What they need, is to make rational decisions which are efficient and benefit them in a long run.

[Tehralph]

Says theres a possibility, and admits not even they know what the issue really is. So I vote we all just shut the fuck up and wait for the verdict.

[FoxAlpha]

I agree with you on the statement that there should be no exceptions. But right now the game has just started and this situation is not comparable to small glitches which may happen at a later state of the game. Right now nobody looses something, you just played a few hours with enormous lags and downtimes...

It is clearly a database issue that people are moved from one tribe to another. From a company view you either have to check the WHOLE database for any other glitches, even for features which may not be in game at this moment i.e. Ranged Weapons - I don't think you would like to shoot yourself due to a database glitch which happened at the start just as a POSSIBLE example - or make a small wipe which does not affect you too much, since you have been playing with huge lags. I only prefer the wipe because from my personal experience I know how huge database problems may affect a game experience for everyone.

I am not a database pro, my knowledge is very limited, but is this assumption really so far off track ?

[Tehralph]

I agree with you on the statement that there should be no exceptions. But right now the game has just started and this situation is not comparable to small glitches which may happen at a later state of the game. Right now nobody looses something, you just played a few hours with enormous lags and downtimes...

It is clearly a database issue that people are moved from one tribe to another. From a company view you either have to check the WHOLE database for any other glitches, even for features which may not be in game at this moment i.e. Ranged Weapons - I don't think you would like to shoot yourself due to a database glitch which happened at the start just as a POSSIBLE example - or make a small wipe which does not affect you too much, since you have been playing with huge lags. I only prefer the wipe because from my personal experience I know how huge database problems may affect a game experience for everyone.

I am not a database pro, my knowledge is very limited, but is this assumption really so far off track ?

Well say it is a database issue, if they can fix it without wiping, it wouldnt be so hard for these people to just leave the tribe and head to the right place. I think wiping would put more of a hassle on more people than it would the people who got put into a random tribe.

[Niburu]

torrent is up. And i think we will see another wipe because our tribe was not the only one who created a tribe placed a totem than crash and than the totem was still there but the tribe was kinda gone and everyone was in another tribe......

[otomotopia]

I say yes. We got our spot but it doesn't matter, it took us 3 hours but I don't care. Just announce when the servers will go back up and file people through. We'll all appreciate it once we get in game and don't deal with 1.2 KS lag.

[river111]

The only reason to need a wipe is if there are data base issues which they can not fix otherwise. No amount of whining should be justification for a wipe. Everyone has had the same chances as everyone else. I didnt get one plot I wanted, but I'm ok with moving and trying for my next option. No on the wipe unless there is no other option to fix bugs.

[Imhotep]

I voted no, but it seems that our tribe has been buged too, totem shows no info. tribe panel is kind of messed up (some bug or something We were all in a tribe and placed a totem and now shows some weird stuff like, no tribe name and place totem, no tribemembers. Wipe should indeed take place. (I retract my NO vote to YES)

[sionide]

The tribe showing no info isn't a bug. It's just major lag.

[Lucas]

Wipe should happen

[Meanstreak]

I'm all for a wipe after the problem is fixed. Our tribal leader lagged out over 15 times, and was bugged so that he couldnt place a totem. Someone else was able to place a random totem in the middle of the road, and now we have to look for a new spot. I'm not sure if its even a real totem, i click on tribe info and nothing pops up. Also, this is a pre-launch made by a small indie company; they've made a great game, and a small hiccup like this in no way lessens my belief in their ability as developers.

[baka77]

I dunno why people are bitching. There has been some EPIC & AMAZING PvP (player v provider) action tonight!!!

[BigCountry]

If anyone remembers/played Shadowbane, I would say this launch went rather well.
:D

[river111]

The tribe showing no info isn't a bug. It's just major lag.

Actually its a bug, well kinda. If a totem shows no info when you try and check it, chances are your tribe also does not show bounderies when someone walks accross the borders. And, if those are both true, anyone can place a new non-broken totem there because yours is a phantom.

IF you have one of these, I highly recommend you rebuild your tribe and place again before someone does come up and steal your spot. If your tribe members all went to bed, go plant a homestead in the middle of the spot your tribe wants to at least try and hold the spot for them.

And yes, as a result of this, I have now started ot see in game several claim jumps happen, I did one myself by accident - didnt see thier totem behind the tree 20 yards from my new one.

So even if the data base isnt corrupted, this changes the whole worked for and everyone had it fair deal. Now, since that bug is there, some thought they got thier plot and may actually lose it due to the bug itself. That makes a wipe justifiable IMHO. Hate to see folks go to bed only to wake up and see thier claim owned by someone else and thier phantom totem just whiffin in the breeze for them.

[jeru]

I voted no, even with the bug just as the previous poster stated you can plant a new homestead/tribe totem within the residing area (our tribe had to do that). No harm to the people who were on for the pre-launch. my 2cents

[Silgrimm]

voted yes, because it was unpossible for me, to do anything about a few hours, I spent the same money like all other people and want to have the same chance to start.
So an other player ("solo") put a "Tribetotem" on the place, where I have tried to place a tote, for our tribe for hours.

[mersault]

I voted no, because the poll states "after they fix issues", which would mean that they correct the totem and tribe founding issues, the placing of multiple totems etc.

However, i am aware that a wipe might not be optional, but honestly- what would change if they wipe another time? The bandwidth is still the same, and if they announce the wipe, there'll be masses trying to login and play again. If they have to wipe again...they shouldn't disclose the time when it'll happen...yeah, i know, stupid for those who get to know that too late. But the only other options are facing the same problems again or wait until their host moves them to a higher bandwidth.

[Metsuro]

Seriously?

Tribe names are changing left and right, people are getting booted and logging back in to see they are in a different tribe, etc etc.....

Do you honestly expect the database to be salvageable at this point? I just don't see how you dont see that there will be the need for a wipe, not even mentioning the fact that many people aren't even able to play which makes it unfair...

For the love of god stop talking. Go look up database design please for the love of god. The possibility of a wipe is beyond low right now as tribes are working just fine right now. All that needs to be done is delete the problem tribes and the orphaned totems. And guess what? Game is fixed.

Sure it'll be unfair cause you broke and lost your land but... Sorry its fair. We stuck it out... You gave up... Deal with it.

[Jasdemi]

No wipe needed.

[Shaggy]

With the stability over the last hour or so I'm starting to think they might not need one. This poll was put up hours ago because of how the server was acting. Just sayin =)

[otomotopia]

With the stability over the last hour or so I'm starting to think they might not need one. This poll was put up hours ago because of how the server was acting. Just sayin =)

people felt like they lost out in the land grab. It took us 3 hours to put the darn thing down, now we wait for more info to see if we should wait on playing or just go at it.

[river111]

voted yes, because it was unpossible for me, to do anything about a few hours, I spent the same money like all other people and want to have the same chance to start.
So an other player ("solo") put a "Tribetotem" on the place, where I have tried to place a tote, for our tribe for hours.


I'll be honest with ya, I dont care either way anymore. I'm losing items, clothes, tools on crashes - that I care more about than a land grab. And lets be honest on the land grab too - some of us stuck it out for 5, 6, 8, 10 hours to get our plots. If you wanted yours and you didnt stick it out like we did, well you got no room to complain when you see our totem where you want to plant. And no I dont give a damn if you have 30 people in your tribe, if not one of you had the balls to tough it out for the good of your team to get it placed then none of you deserve the spot. If a solo person did, they have every right to that claim, cause they put in the effort and time to get it.

So please, stop with the self righteous bull already. Wipe is all up to the devs, let them decide if it needs it to fix the problems they have. really think its about time some people just sat down and shut up and let tem do thier job already.

[Lolindir]

I don't know if it's possible for them to solve the problems without a wipe, however if the wipe is needed i think they should do it immediately.

[Mako_Jak]

I don't know if it's possible for them to solve the problems without a wipe, however if the wipe is needed i think they should do it immediately.

They'd have to make 100% sure that they understand everything that went wrong, so that whatever happened isn't going to happen again, otherwise there will be "another another" wipe ;)

[Imhotep]

wipe is needed asap

[Ziggy]

wipe is needed asap

So we would have the same problems all over again?

[robatzen]

A wipe would just lead the the same situation and it starts again. And then?

[Larsa]

The funny thing is when you look at the names of the people that voted. Amongst them the players AegisGuild, AegisGuild2, AegisGuid3, AegisGuild4 and AegisGuild5. Somehow I don't believe that's five different players. :)

[STAR_GOD]

easy wipe when they upgraded to new servers

[Tehralph]

The funny thing is when you look at the names of the people that voted. Amongst them the players AegisGuild, AegisGuild2, AegisGuid3, AegisGuild4 and AegisGuild5. Somehow I don't believe that's five different players. :)
Definitely not. My accounts. U mad bro? I have 6 accounts, so I have 6 votes. Its how the system works. =P

[naughty]

Definitely not. My accounts. U mad bro? I have 6 accounts, so I have 6 votes. Its how the system works. =P

wow you are so smart!

[Lolindir]

They'd have to make 100% sure that they understand everything that went wrong, so that whatever happened isn't going to happen again, otherwise there will be "another another" wipe ;)

You're right ^^ hope they'll be able to find the problem as soon as possible.

[axiomtk]

Well I would prefer a wipe when new servers are in. But untill then what should we do without conformation? Play not play?

BTW I don't think they can fix the issues. Database is really srewed atm

[Marcus]

You're right ^^ hope they'll be able to find the problem as soon as possible.

When you make an announcment that the server are opening at a specific time, and have a mad rush to place a "house", I think the problem is somewhat easy to find... The server needs to check the Tribes name against all the others created, place the totem, figure the boundries.. amongst other things... add to that, many want "their" spot, so its a constant slam of people...

I'm not sure upgrading the server would help this type of onslaught the game gets..

I saw the same thing at the introduction of Trammel, and Age of Shadows in UO..

During most launch days, people get the lag, and get frusterated and log out... Here, a lot of people will keep trying to get their spot, over and over.

[dlld]

Only wipe if it's the only solution.

Anyway servers seems to have been down for quite some time now?

[Stundorn]

i didnt vote because its unimportant to me if they wipe or not.
I disconnected me through 2 Zones, trying for 2 hours to found a tribe, then get it with still 7 Members online who were killed by a black bear again and again while we were unable to fight back because of 5 to 12 minutes lagspikes, we were able to plant a totem 4 hours after launch, then we tested it, if the tribe and the totem stays when we logg off.
It does, but 4 hours later this morning the tribe was broken, while the totem still is on its place.
So what. wipe or not, i dont care.

[broo123]

if DEVs decide thats for health of the game and wipe is necessary ok for me
its better than left bugs and exploits unrepaired - like was in DFO
as a experienced player i know how every start look (exception was Perpetuum Online - they had great start) and im mentaly prepared - but from what i see im in minoryty
a lot should take long walk and some should take prozac and try to avoid computer for some time
or just grow up a bit

[woachaos]

Delete all totems, keep the characters and the tribes they are in.

[Stundorn]

if we can plant then and it will work this would be fine and please do it before 0300 PST :P
I am tired now, i stayed up until 4am (GMT+1) and get up at 8am, so i am a liitle bit of lacking sleep :P

[hanca]

we need it. better loose one day or two than this. wipe should be

[Larsa]

Voted yes now, after running around a bit I'd reckon there are hundreds of bugged totems by now. Personally I've seen:

- messages that I would enter tribeland without any totem of this tribe to be seen
- totems placed (or owned by) 1-player tribes
- totems I could not klick to see who owned the totem.

Somehow I don't think that all these things can be corrected without a new wipe.

[Gypsy]

- totems placed (or owned by) 1-player tribes


This is most likely a homestead. They both look the same right now.

[Tehroth]

why did the DB get f up?

/face palm

we all just wasted 5 hours.....man

Hey i remember you that guy from Darkfall myself and no one else liked.

Anyways a server wipe needs to happen when clan totems are everywhere without clan members in them taking up the land.

[ifireallymust]

I can cope with either one at this point. All I hope is that we get a little advanced notice on when the new start time will be if there is going to be a wipe, and that some of the worst lag causers are fixed before then, or this is going to happen all over again, except with even more upset players than there are now.

With the advent of cheap storage and much cheaper computers, I thought that devs/game companies would be able to host their own servers, but I guess not. Maybe it's because of the security side of things making that too complicated and better left to providers? I'm curious if anyone knows, although the info will be of absolutely no use to me whatsoever. Anyway, I believe the devs about the interim server issue, the firewall issue, and the provider just not coming through for them, because this isn't the first time I've heard of this happening. Hell, it's not even the first time I've heard of this happening this month. Didn't Earthrise just have a server provider problem, too?

[Tehralph]

- totems placed (or owned by) 1-player tribes
Homestead totems look exactly like tribe totems.
- totems I could not klick to see who owned the totem.
This is just your impatience, due to server lag it takes awhile for the option to come up, and another little while for the window to come up.

[Lolindir]

- totems I could not klick to see who owned the totem.
This is just your impatience, due to server lag it takes awhile for the option to come up, and another little while for the window to come up.

Nope, even without much lag (like when you log in after a crash) for most of the totem i've found i couldn't read their info and i've been waiting for like 5 minutes and no window popped, but the quest window opened immediately.

[Larsa]

This is most likely a homestead. They both look the same right now.I don't know. Do homestead totems also tell you who the tribe leader is and how many members the tribe has and whether it's a good or neutral or evil tribe when you inspect them? Can homestead totems also have user generated quests?

[xyva424]

- totems placed (or owned by) 1-player tribes
Homestead totems look exactly like tribe totems.
- totems I could not klick to see who owned the totem.
This is just your impatience, due to server lag it takes awhile for the option to come up, and another little while for the window to come up.

actually there are bugged totems you cannot check the info on, our tribes bugged totem is only a few meters from our working one, we ended up staying 6-7 hours to ensure it got fixed after it broke and then I stayed for another 4 hours to watch it till the server stabilized. Once we saw it broke we started talking screen shots and contacting guides to get it resolved. Its still there if you'd like to come burn 4 hours waiting for it to not give you any info if you'd like to prove yourself wrong.

[Tehralph]

actually there are bugged totems you cannot check the info on, our tribes bugged totem is only a few meters from our working one, we ended up staying 6-7 hours to ensure it got fixed after it broke and then I stayed for another 4 hours to watch it till the server stabilized. Once we saw it broke we started talking screen shots and contacting guides to get it resolved. Its still there if you'd like to come burn 4 hours waiting for it to not give you any info if you'd like to prove yourself wrong.

I was referring to actual totems, not the useless graphics that are ghost totems. Im sorry, I didnt know every little detail needed to be layed out for your content.

[xyva424]

Please don't correct yourself to imply my ignorance. I pointed out the exact totems likely being described which you so adamantly insist don't exist and are cause by our impatience and idiocy.

[orious13]

If I could I'd like to change my answer to yes :).

[sampy04]

Wipe imminent.

[vazzaroth]

If I could I'd like to change my answer to yes :).

This.

I didn't think we did at first until I saw the totem in game with no tribe attached and the overall buggyness of everything. So I change my answer from No to Yes...

[MrKrueak]

all this is moot now, confirmed wipe will happen when new servers and new locations happens. relax everyone is getting 2 free weeks of play added to their account also.

[MasterJace]

all this is moot now, confirmed wipe will happen when new servers and new locations happens. relax everyone is getting 2 free weeks of play added to their account also.

Source?

[Imhotep]

wipe will happen, Iam a little sad that it will be god knows when one-two weeks, but its a good thing afterall.

[Shaggy]

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/1440-Xsyon-Updates?p=45177#post45177

[ifireallymust]

So, more free game time for us, another wipe incoming, with an attempt to save current tribe locations, even.

Regardless of whether my little spot in the middle of nowhere is still mine when all is said and done, or whether I have to find another place to park my crafter, I can deal with it.

[Tehroth]

What I don't understand is why not do the wipe now and get it over with? Unless they are going to try to find more bugs and whatnot before they re-wipe. It just means i won't really want to play for 2 weeks because it all will be trashed.

[ifireallymust]

What I don't understand is why not do the wipe now and get it over with? Unless they are going to try to find more bugs and whatnot before they re-wipe. It just means i won't really want to play for 2 weeks because it all will be trashed.

They're moving to new servers/maybe doing something with the firewall situation?/probably fixing other issues. Delaying will prevent a lag-infested repeat of yesterday. I don't like it either, but these things happen.

[FabricSoftener]

fans of perma-death should love server wipes!