My only problem with the Xyson team

[psiic]

This is the same problem I have with big game devs, they knew exactly how many people pre-ordered, once you realize you are are selling more than you expected then you immediately take that into account and make sure you have the bandwidth to cover that number.

Common-sense issues always annoy me and this is an issue that happens time and time and time again in game launches so by now every game developer indie or not should know its an issue.

Technically they could have posted the download to tons of offsite sources for free. Gamershell, MMOsite, Fileplanet...

They chose not to, so really don't have much sympathy for the "oh so many people are downloading " excuse.

[Draakan]

And if they sold a whole bunch of pre-orders within a day or two of the wipe as he stated, then what? There is not enough time at the end of a week to get extra servers up and running.

[Salvador4]

What's even worse they're now talking about wiping the whole thing again. I paid good money for your product: MAKE IT WORK

[fishFUNK]

yea OBVIOUSLY its that easy. I mean look how well WoWs launch went, or Fallen Earth or Mortal Online, or... wait.. do i see a pattern here? nubs.

[otomotopia]

yea OBVIOUSLY its that easy. I mean look how well WoWs launch went, or Fallen Earth or Mortal Online, or... wait.. do i see a pattern here? nubs.

Not nubs, really. They could have been through them and knew what its like to be in a bad launch and are getting tired of it.

But yea. I mean, if a ton of people buy the game so soon, its not the week of time they'd need to switch over EVERYTHING from one server to another. It's 2 days. I mean, Xsyon just like exploded two days before prelude pre-launch. They don't even have a publisher I believe. Give them the benifit of the doubt.

[shadowlz]

yea OBVIOUSLY its that easy. I mean look how well WoWs launch went, or Fallen Earth or Mortal Online, or... wait.. do i see a pattern here? nubs.

They do see a pattern, thats why they are frustrated. There is no reason why MMOs should still be having the same exact problems every launch. There is no reason there shouldnt have been enough bandwidth. They knew how many preordered, yes he said there was an influx of preorders but thats no excuse either. If this small influx of preorders overloaded the servers it means they were not ready for launch(real launch) where there will be an even bigger amount of orders.

Then I hear (rumors) of the download server being the same as the game server? I really hope thats not the case because that would be the biggest screwup in the history of online gaming.

[CrazyMoe]

yea OBVIOUSLY its that easy. I mean look how well WoWs launch went, or Fallen Earth or Mortal Online, or... wait.. do i see a pattern here? nubs.

Actually fallen earth launch went pretty well. The server didn't even crash one single time and the lag was acceptable.

[tilla]

They already ordered the new servers the moment they saw a spike in pre-order sales happening close to launch. Really, if you can't deal with it..not really anything anyone can do about your lack of patience :P

[bruisie159]

My problem is jooky always passing the buck. Always blaming someone or something else. A year ago we were a few weeks away from release of course that wasn't a massive error of judgement or a scam it's the old dev teams fault. Problems with bandwidth - let down by server hosts out of control even thO he knew since November. And now it's our fault for buying the game or not updating at the right time.

Look these things should not just be out of control as "the boss" make them your responsibility and fix it .

[Xsyon]

As soon as we had a larger influx of players than expected I got on the phone and ordered new servers. Our server hosts did not take care of this efficiently enough and we are stuck until the new servers are ready.

The download server is not the same as the game server. They are limited by the same bandwidth because they are behind a single firewall at the same facility.

I am not 'passing the buck'. I am doing my best to fix things. Ultimately, yes it's my responsibility, but as the boss of a small team I do have to rely on others who have been a let down. I just report things as they are, and that's all.

In November we were moved to a new facility. This was supposed to be the high end facility and connectivity seemed great (which it is). There was no way of me knowing that we were not a the higher bandwidth facility as promised until I was told a week ago that we were at an 'interim' location. So, this is being remedied as quick as possible.

[dreampod]

Honestly I don't think you are being fair bruisie. Yes Jooky should have been better prepared and had been more on the ball regarding the servers capacity but being surprised with hundreds of new pre-orders (a significant % of the population) is a reasonable hiccup to encounter. It is also worth bearing in mind that there is nothing that properly simulates the stress of release day on a game like this, no matter how you prepare for it you will discover quirks in how your code responds to massive pressure that were unexpected. Virtually every game has this problem for precisely this reason which is why you get things like the 'pre-order early access' program so that it can clear these problems up during a period that is justified to have lower performance because 'we aren't paying for the game yet'. Lastly, Jooky isn't a network engineer and has been open about this being one of his weaknesses.

Give him a chance to figure out what is wrong and fix it, because it is more complicated than waving a magic wand.

[bruisie159]

Yea I take those points, just tired and a bit frustrated that's all. Dont get me wrong I love the game I'm just not good without sleep

And jooky do u have to reply so quickly? How am I supposed to complain in peace if u are here to make me feel bad about complaining!

[mrwooj]

I didnt enjoy the problems that have happened today (probably yesterday for most of you) but i am certainly not upset with the Xsyon team at all. We arent in the open game yet - dont forget this is still Prelude. The Xsyon team deal with things in a very professional manner. They keep us well informed. They listen strongly to our concerns and suggestions. They had a glitch, they are addressing it and they are communicating with us all the way through. I say keep up the good work Jordi and team. No problems here at my end. If you want to know what a shit game team is go look at the Darkfall forums. We have had more communication and fixes in a week than DF has had in a year, yet that game is very broken and not in beta.

[fishFUNK]

Not nubs, really. They could have been through them and knew what its like to be in a bad launch and are getting tired of it.

But yea. I mean, if a ton of people buy the game so soon, its not the week of time they'd need to switch over EVERYTHING from one server to another. It's 2 days. I mean, Xsyon just like exploded two days before prelude pre-launch. They don't even have a publisher I believe. Give them the benifit of the doubt.

I think you miss understand me.. Im calling the complainers nubs not jooky. Obviously launches arent easy if even MMO god WoW couldnt handle their launch.

[fishFUNK]

Actually fallen earth launch went pretty well. The server didn't even crash one single time and the lag was acceptable.

The FE launch was terrible. you couldnt go in a citys because of lag, some cities were actually offline. Rubberbanding was awful. people were falling through the map, you couldnt go in junk fortress for like 2 weeks. Its clearly not easy to launch a game or someone would have gotten it right by now and NO ONE has. Give the dudes a break over there.

[bruisie159]

Yes communication is excellent best of any mmo I've played

[GuideAriel]

Xsyon is doing his best with the given resources. Keep in mind he does not have the backing of a company such as Blizzard, nor does he has the sheer numbers that entails. He does have dedication to his player though, you note it is him with his hands in the dirt. It is 1 AM here and he is still on and working, that is some amazing dedication.

[Silgrimm]

It is 1 AM here and he is still on and working, that is some amazing dedication.
That maybe, but he should shut down this damned server, as long as he works on it, the game is unplayable atm.
half of the people could do anything in the last hours, they are very frustrated, while the other half, who was so lucky
to place a totem, can continue with the game.
Shut down the server, fix it and then start it again, and when it lasts five days to fix it, it doesnt matter,
but dont start the server again, before the game is playable and fixed. so that everybody got the same chance.

[Vandali]

Everything will be forgiven if the global text is removed. :)

[carlosfc1986]

remove global text it may be causing some lag also! wtf fix this or tell us if u can fix it or we wait for the servers..., we payed u our money!

[Dothackking]

I really wanted to be nice, but any of you who have been saying chat can cause bandwidth problems, I have one thing to say to you:

L O L


Text=1kb per 50 words or more


Considering that we likely have 20-200 people trying to DL at any given time, each going (for example) 500kb/s, the chat is using about....2kb/s, if that. The downloads are using 10,000-100,000kb/s

[fishFUNK]

remove global text it may be causing some lag also! wtf fix this or tell us if u can fix it or we wait for the servers..., we payed u our money!

Congrats on the most ridiculous post ive seen on the forums yet.

[otomotopia]

Congrats on the most ridiculous post ive seen on the forums yet.


I really wanted to be nice, but any of you who have been saying chat can cause bandwidth problems, I have one thing to say to you:

L O L


Text=1kb per 50 words or more


Considering that we likely have 20-200 people trying to DL at any given time, each going (for example) 500kb/s, the chat is using about....2kb/s, if that. The downloads are using 10,000-100,000kb/s

*cough* EARTHRISE HAS MASSIVE LAG BECAUSE OF CHAT *cough*

[mgilbrtsn]

should'a, would'a, could'a seems to be the gist of what i'm hearing from all of the backseat drivers. Most ppl don't know what the rational, decision points, resources, limitations that have gone into making the decisions they are making. If you expect 50 ppl, but you plan for 100, but you get 1000 downloads, then you made contingency, but even that was blown away. Doesn't mean they didn't plan for it, however, it does mean that the net result is negative in terms of the current architecture to handle it.

As far as Xsyon passing the buck, I would have to disagree. If you state a reason something isn't working, it isn't passing the buck. Its stating a fact on the current situation. We were moved into a facility that was supposed to be the high end facility, but instead we were moved into a mid grade facility, is definitely not passing the buck. Its the current state of affairs. Its an explanation, not an excuse.

Obviously there are things that the devs could have done better, but i've seen much worse launches. Yes we all paid money for it and expect a game to be near perfect at launch, but the fact is, in 99% of the cases this doesn't happen. Even big budget devs such as blizzard have had trouble during launch. Yes even the mighty WoW had issues at launch. Be upset; be frustrated; be anxious; be human, but don't rage quit, or rage bash because it simply doesn't make sense IMO.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

The truth is that you guys are mad you can't ever get laid, and you take it out on these poor developers.

[otomotopia]

The truth is that you guys are mad you can't ever get laid, and you take it out on these poor developers.

I would have just said troll, but in other posts you actually have some intelligent discourse.

So I'll just say, haha, kthnx for trying and leave you be.

[Larsa]

I'm more than willing to give the Xsyon team some slack. A few days play more or less doesn't really matter that much.

I'm glad that new players enter the game, I'm quite impressed with Xsyon's (Jooky?) communication towards us players, game and client has worked remarkably stable for me until the recent problems, the game is a fresh breeze in the genre. With all these positive things (well done, Xsyon) I can easily deal with a few days of chaos.

[zettoz]

If you ever work in IT if anything is fixed within a week you can call it a blessing, it takes time, a lot of time for things to go through, servers take time to be shipped let alone set up.

[psiic]

My whole point to this thread is..

If it takes a week to get a new server,

Then he should have ordered the server a week ago.. better yet two weeks ago so he could test it once he has it set up.

Saying "omg we got all these new customers the day before and it overwhelmed us we had no idea" is total BS..

I've been in game I've been watching people pour into this over the last two weeks, I've been watching the buzz and word of mouth on game sites. Do you mean to tell me I am better informed about how many copies they are selling than they are?

This is not some surprise that snuck up on them, they knew what wipe day, head start day was, they knew the numbers of pre-orders they were selling, and if they had any experience they would have known there would be a last day sales spike there always is on every game.

If you buy into this crap that they sold so many pre-orders yesterday its crashing the server then you need to wake up. This excuse is just an excuse for either being cheap, lazy, or inexperienced.

Yes I like the game, yes I like the devs, yes I like the guides.. that said as I said before I do not like common-sense mistakes.

[Tom316]

If you use a host that doesnt have servers in reserve then you are using a bad host. What would have happened if the game server box took a hardware dump the day of launch? Now we set without a game server for a week or so because there host is stupid an has to order new hardware in?

Come on people this isnt the 90's anymore. There are quality hosting companies out there that believe in customer satisfaction and a quality service. They can drop in and out boxs as needed within min's of you putting in the request.

We have cloud hosting now where you can instantly scale up and down the hardware on your server with nothing more then a restart of the OS and a click of a button in the control panel.

I like the dev team and greatly enjoy the game. But this should never have been a issue. All resources and expenses should have went out the door when they noticed sales increasing at a fast rate.

This is one type of publicity this game doesnt need and is getting hammered all over the gaming websites for. The damage is being done and is done to an extent. Something already should have been done to help fix the ingame issues. If that means limiting the number of people that can be downloading the game. Then so be it. If it means turning off the game server and letting people download. Then so be it. But leaving it as it is now is doing WAY more damage then any good / benefit.

[Archangel]

I'm kind of happy with how the early start began. It simply means that the game is way more popular / hyped than what everyone on both sides was expecting it to be.

[Vysara]

For all you people complaining about them not getting enough capacity in advance do you even have any idea how badly the numbers spiked in the last week in the lead up to launch?

A LOT of people didn't pre-order until a day or two before and there was a LOT of people following the threads over on mmorpg.com and the forum activity there has increased by well over several hundred % in the past week or so.

As far as Jordi knew he was on a lot higher bandwidth than he actually was, the hosting company didnt tell him until it was already too late. That coupled with the fact the game got a lot of additional players at the very last minute is just something he can't plan for. Of course we don't have exact numbers but im guessing the amount of people buying and downloading the entire game at the very last minute form a significant number of the current population.

[EDIT]

Myself, and many others, during beta testing have spoken with Jordi before about issues with the game and helping him nail down the cause of various bugs. He knows what he is doing and he has a lot of constraints placed upon him due to the size of the team and the resources they have at their disposal. You just need to give him a bit of time, not everything can be planned for and not everything can be fixed instantly.

[jeru]

vysara +1 I am willing to give the guides my patience and understanding. I have been around for many mmorpg launches and id say 1 in 4 has a smooth launch....like look at final fantasy 14 that was one of the biggest screw ups in history. I think they will have things under control soon as they can get the new server, like a guide posted they are not Blizzard. This is a company in its infancy, their first MMO launch; I wish them the best of luck getting things resolved

[Delvie]

Rant Rant Rant - ok now I feel better. Was actually making some progress last night when my own machine decided it needed a nap. Get on this morning and we're back in download lag.

No idea how to fix this, I know Jooky and team are doing the best they can. Honestly folks what did we expect when the game hit #3 at mmorpg? I know me and many others have been hunting for a good game to play for quite a while. This is a good game going through major growing pains at just the wrong time.

I've been through bad launches before, it's hard to not want to jump in there and try to play but it's best to find something else to do to save yourself the frustration. I've also been through good launches where surprisingly enough the game collapses due to some weird technical problems a month in. Or in the case of EQ2 has major power (as in electricity) problems like three weeks into the game. Stuff happens.

At least everything is getting stress tested now before the official launch, and some of the hype will go down to much more reasonable levels.

[Wolfhammer]

This is the same problem I have with big game devs, they knew exactly how many people pre-ordered, once you realize you are are selling more than you expected then you immediately take that into account and make sure you have the bandwidth to cover that number.

Common-sense issues always annoy me and this is an issue that happens time and time and time again in game launches so by now every game developer indie or not should know its an issue.

Technically they could have posted the download to tons of offsite sources for free. Gamershell, MMOsite, Fileplanet...

They chose not to, so really don't have much sympathy for the "oh so many people are downloading " excuse.

I can't see the point in creating a thread just to beef about it to be honest.. it won't change or improve the situation. You handed over cash in the full knowledge of what the early ride was pretty much guaranteed to be like. :rolleyes:

[FabricSoftener]

regardless of the volume of rants, apologies and detailed explanations each gamer is left with a few options (details and an amount of money vary but the long term option is basically the same) whic is be paitent and wait for this game to work out, or go play RIFT or some other McMMO.

I tend to look at the 'meta-picture' and what I see is a many large development companies who should have created a game like this many years ago but instead continued to produce crap. Here we have a guy who when told 'dont like it? create your own ass wipe!' actually did create his own and it contains great features. For that I can wait, besides, I really dont have a choice because I am not going to play RIFT or DC Universe to be honest.

[blake378]

i was there for the launch of fallen earth. this is much better

[Evito]

You guys serious? Global chat eating resources? Sure few bytes every five seconds to everyone, now compare that to position updates for every moving player and the updates to the clients that can see the other players and update all of them about it simultaneously. But i do agree, shut down global chat (say give guides power to disable/enable so they can ask us questions) but for the sole fact that there are lot of ignorants misinforming others by silly babble and a lot of annoying bitching, it also moves more important chats quickly from the screen like tribe chat.

[BigCountry]

memory leak, network code is broke somewhere.

could take awhile to find it and fix it.

sucks. these guys are probably exhausted. a human can only code 8-9 hours a day and then their brain goes to mush, trust me. hehe
:(

[Virtus]

it is not a memory leak, it is a bandwidth problem. The download server and game server run off the same connection.

[BigCountry]

i dont believe that.

if that were the case shut down the download server for 15 minutes and proof that to me.

if it works for 15 minutes, shut it back on and this entire community will be happy because we will all have a confirmation on what it is.

[Virtus]

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/1440-Xsyon-Updates

last section of Feb 18th

[BigCountry]

I read that. I don't believe it.

Shut down the download server for 15 minutes. It's really quite simple. That will proof to all of us whether or not that is what it is and we can go about our weekend.
:D

[zettoz]

Hey virtus, would it be possible to maybe upload the full installer to an external site such as megaupload, rapidshare etc and use that as the primary download location for the time being until the bandwidth is fixed at your location?

[Sadus]

It won't fix the massive server lag which has nothing to do with the bandwidth

[orious13]

If you don't believe it that's your problem.

I'd rather they fix it then waste their time screwing peoples downloads up just to show you what the problem is.

Come back later. Get on with your weekend already... When it's fixed you won't even care about what the problem was. Especially 2 weeks from now when the game ACTUALLY launches officially. I doubt this is even part of the free 2 months.

[Banok]

The game is unplayable, so why bother letting people download game off servers making it unplayable if there is a torrent. theres absolutely 0 reason to not disable it, so yeah does kind of sound like complete bullshit or complete lack of logic to me.

[BigCountry]

I would rather they fix it also. But why lie about it?

They should humble up, post a news update about what it really is, and tell everyone they are working on it. If they do not know what it is, tell us that also. If they need everyone logged in to debug/gather log info to help fix it, then tell us that as well. That way we at least understand where the lag is coming from.

Don't blow smoke up our asses about bandwidth. That is clearly obvious this is not what this is...

[zettoz]

Bandwidth is a completely legitimate reason Big Country without a big enough pipeline and without QoS you are going to experience an almost complete shutdown of speed due to the sheer amount of people trying to connect, have you ever heard of a DoS attack?

[orious13]

I would rather they fix it also. But why lie about it?

They should humble up, post a news update about what it really is, and tell everyone they are working on it. If they need everyone logged in to debugg/gather log info to help fix it, then tell us that. That way we at least understand where the lag is coming from.

Don't blow smoke up our asses about bandwidth. That is clearly obvious this is not what this is...

If you've done this before you might clearly understand the problem. If you haven't, then stop assuming you know everything and the devs and guides are both lying. I've never created an mmo.. so the only thing I care about is if the problem is fixed in minimal time.

[BigCountry]

Bandwidth is a completely legitimate reason Big Country without a big enough pipeline and without QoS you are going to experience an almost complete shutdown of speed due to the sheer amount of people trying to connect, have you ever heard of a DoS attack?

Of course I have. If it's DoS tell me that. Don't tell me it's a freaking ftp server. All you have to do is shut that down.

[Virtus]

Locked, thread getting out of hand.