Xsyon, let's consider 2 server rulesets again

[BigCountry]

FFA PvP and the ability to lose your land needs to be implemented sooner than the later perhaps.

The world needs to shape in accordance to how people are going to play/expect the world to be. Or else it will form in a non-natural way.

For example, if FFA PvP were in place right now, the player base would react in a different way. We would all be fortifying our territories with walls, water (or some sort of security mechanism). And that's exactly what would happen if this were RL - the first thing to do would be security to protect yourself and your belongings.

FFA PvP would cause people to ban together, start cities, start government, start politics, declare wars, etc. It's just the way of things.

ATM I do not see how a random spawn of racoons or bears is going to do that.

In one of your updates, you mentioned 2 servers, the current ruleset and a "hardcore" ruleset. Perhaps with all the lag/leaks we experienced over the weekend, maybe it would not be such a bad idea to wipe with 2 servers, a FFA PvP (no safe zones) and a normal server (what we have now). That essentially is the only difference - the safe zone PvP toggle.

This way we have 2 worlds growing as they "should". Everyone is happy.

I can respect both the PvE'ers and the PvP'ers outlook on this, and in my 13 years experience in playing sandbox mmorpgs, I have found it next to impossible for developers to please both PvE'ers and PvP'ers. In the end one of the 2 groups leaves the game and over time the sandbox drys up and blows away because of it.

I do however realize this is more work/pressure on you. Since you would have to now maintain 2 servers.

Anyway, just something to consider/discuss.

-Big C

[Raye]

Its a really bad idea splitting up a already small community. Also there has been talks about a EU server if its needed, should we then split up into 4 different servers? No please keep this to one server, people who buy this game already know its a FFA PVP game.

[Vadio]

Hum , no

[Jadzia]

Just FYI:


Just to stop this before this takes off... PvE server was not an option.

What I was considering was 1 server with PvP and ruleset as planned and a new 'War' server with safe zones gone as soon as possible and full on tribe take over and destruction like a segment of our population would like.

So
server 1: Xsyon as planned, PvP with rules and consequences.
server 2: War... total chaos server.

Was posted by Xsyon, 1 day ago.

[Aramanu]

stick with one server, if EVE can do it then so can we.

[KeithStone]

What I was considering was 1 server with PvP and ruleset as planned and a new 'War' server with safe zones gone as soon as possible and full on tribe take over and destruction like a segment of our population would like.

So
server 1: Xsyon as planned, PvP with rules and consequences.
server 2: War... total chaos server.

Server 1: Will still follow this:

Can architecture structures be damaged by other players at any time?
As the game evolves yes. This won't be in for a while as towns are planned as safe zones in the Prelude, though I am considered tribes to allow to choose if they want to be warring tribes during the Prelude. Warring tribes will be able to attack each other.

When will we be able to raid other tribes? And what systems are you planning for that?
Not for a while. This was planned for after the Prelude, which will last at least 6 months. When a raiding system is implemented I will first look at what other games do and what systems have had success.

After prelude- will tribes be able to conquer other tribe lands by destroying their totem?
Yes. How this will work is not fully decided yet. Since we first started working on Xsyon, many games have come out with some good ideas for this type of warfare. We're going to spend some time checking these out before we implement what we think is the best solution.

Server 2 only difference is there are no consequences for killing another player and safe zones would be removed before prelude is over.

I'm in agreement there needs to be only 1 server.

There needs to be consequence for killing other players.

If that's not what he means- then I'm totally confused about what this game is supposed to be about.

-----------------------

I agree that there should be only 1 server- 2 if an EU is needed.

Also, safe zones should be removed ASAP if the plan is to remove after prelude anyway. (pvp with consequence)

[BigCountry]

A "War/Chaos" server would be really good for the game right now, at least reading over the forums that is what a lot of players want. Especially on the mmorpg.com forums. It would really promote the game.

And I would rather split up a community now, then wage war on forums all day over "safe zones" - and have it continue through out the life cycle of this game....

Both servers would do great. You have to realize that. This is not a selfish move, I truly believe it's best for the game in the long run. But it has to be a decision made before we start the game again.

It also buys Xyson develop time (to implement content such as tribal warfare, asset takeover etc). By simply removing safe zones, he gives the hard core PvP'ers plenty of content in that itself.
:D

[Larsa]

Personally I would prefer the following setup:

1. One server with FFA PvP ruleset (like it's now) and tribe warfare once it's implemented.
2. One server with only tribe vs. tribe warfare once it's implemented.

On both servers structures can be destroyed during tribe warfare. Tribes and homesteads can be looted, etc.

I predict about 75% of the current playerbase will play on the 2nd server. The rest will play on server 1 initially but will rather sooner than later leave the game because there are not enough "carebears" on that server, i.e. not enough victims. This is also known as the "Felucca"-effect. :)

("Carebears" above is meant in an ironical sense, I would play on the second server.)

[mgilbrtsn]

absolutely not

[BigCountry]

absolutely not

Why? This is not a poll, it's a suggestion/discussion.

[fishFUNK]

No. Because we dont need another darkfall? Im a PvP'er and I am totally against have 2 different ruleset servers. I like the progression that jooky has planned out for the game.

[mgilbrtsn]

why?

a couple of reasons why I think it would be a bad idea:

1) I don't think the population will be great enough to handle multiple servers since they will keep adding new territories as populations grow.

2) If you open up the possibility of a multiple servers to handle PvP and PvE, then you have to entertain the thought of a European Server which would further dilute the population.

3) I believe that the whole lore of an apocolypic (I always spell that bloody word wrong) setting, make it so that strife would exist.

4) I believe that it would be ok for the PvE ppl to just exist with the environmental and trading aspect of things, I think it would have a big impact on the PvP server, because if the population is diluted, it really messes with the dynamic of interactions of the various tribes. IE, I believe alot of the solo players would move to the PvE servers. This might impact alliances that could have been formed. (I am obviously on the side of siege warfare, so this is a self serving reason)

The 1st two reasons are the main reasons I believe it to be a bad idea. Obviously this is just my opinion, but there you have it.

[Baldur]

This would really kill the persistent, open world feel to the game. Maybe have some areas that will always have a degree of safety but much lesser resources, so tribes who move out to defend their lands get the bonuses that come with it. Splitting the game into PvP and non PvP servers kind of kills the whole idea of Xsyon, a world where you have to learn how to survive along with others, a true open world.

It would suck if half of this game became naked people ganking each other, and the other was a glorified multiplayer minecraft.

[BigCountry]

1) I don't think the population will be great enough to handle multiple servers since they will keep adding new territories as populations grow.

Xsyon already said his engine/game does not support this.

2) If you open up the possibility of a multiple servers to handle PvP and PvE, then you have to entertain the thought of a European Server which would further dilute the population.

I am not entertaining the thought of 2 of the same server. Just 1 with no safe zones.

3) I believe that the whole lore of an apocolypic (I always spell that bloody word wrong) setting, make it so that strife would exist.

Right now true strife does not exist, and it cannot. Only mindless ganking and grieving. 1 group of players treat this as a building sim. The others treat it as sims PK fest - because that is the only PvP outlet atm.

4) I believe that it would be ok for the PvE ppl to just exist with the environmental and trading aspect of things, I think it would have a big impact on the PvP server, because if the population is diluted, it really messes with the dynamic of interactions of the various tribes. IE, I believe alot of the solo players would move to the PvE servers. This might impact alliances that could have been formed. (I am obviously on the side of siege warfare, so this is a self serving reason)

Pvpers need content. By removing the safe zones you give them that content. They look at and construct their tribe territory thru totally different perspective than somone who is not concerned with PvP. PvE'rs on the flip side do the exact same thing. PvPer's take the fortification/secure way of building (they don't care what it looks like, their concern is defense/security), where as PvEr's take the more artistic approach. 2 completely different types of players, 2 completely different world builds.

The 1st two reasons are the main reasons I believe it to be a bad idea. Obviously this is just my opinion, but there you have it.

I can absolutely respect that. This is a friendly discussion.
:D

[BigCountry]

It would suck if half of this game became naked people ganking each other, and the other was a glorified multiplayer minecraft.

Without 2 rulesets I am very afraid this will happen. It's happening now. Thus my inspiration to create this topic. With a wipe coming, perhaps we can help change things.
:D

[yoori]

I don't agree with removing safezones untill we'll get defensive sturctures in game. We have to be able to keep our non combat members safe.

I don't like the idea for conquering other tribes, I don't want to see months of my work as an architect taken by someone else just becouse they decide to destroy my tribe.
Things like that should be possible with mutual agreement when declaring war. Extension lands with resources should be the ones we fight for and those we should be able to counquer declaring war on other tribe with or without their agreement.

edit: Ofcourse I don't have a problem with breaking other tribes defences, and raidng their towns, thats why we build them. If there is no threat we don't need them.

edit2: hehe I went off topic and forgot to write about 2 rulesets. I don't like it, population is too small PvE server would be boring and PvP server would missout on many other game features it's a waste of Jooky's time.

[mgilbrtsn]

Without 2 rulesets I am very afraid this will happen. It's happening now. Thus my inspiration to create this topic. With a wipe coming, perhaps we can help change things.
:D

I agree that this is happening now. In my opinion what would stop this to a certain extent is to make starting items unlootable. I think this would reduce the amount of griefing against new players. With the removal of safe zones, I think this would be extremely important for new players. Because if new players are griefed and all of their tools/clothes are taken and they have no idea what to do next, nor have the ability to do much, many potential players will simply leave the game.

[BigCountry]

I don't like the idea for conquering other tribes, I don't want to see months of my work as an architect taken by someone else just becouse they decide to destroy my tribe.

And this is exactly why we need 2 rulesets. There is no way possible the 2 can exists on one server because of what Yoori just said, and she shares a lot of the same opinions. It's perfectly normal and ok.
:D

[beauhindman]

stick with one server, if EVE can do it then so can we. Since I am a little unclear as to how the PvP works in this game, is it anything like EVE? EVE has safe areas, but does Xsyon? The second I logged in for the first time the other day I was killed by someone.

If there are safe spots, can someone explain that or point me to a faq that does? I don't mind the safe spots -- if anything, that represents police/law enforcement when tribes reach a certain level.

[Dweetybyrd]

NO SPLIT!! final answer :)

Big C from perpetuum?

[orious13]

You could per-chance included 2 servers with different rule sets, but you have to agree that the game is not supposed to be pvp centric. That's from the dev's mouth. At the moment it seems like it is not the "safe zone" people that are whining, but the ganker-type people. Alot of the time these games start off over-pvp centric. This isn't really the case here.

I believe that a real Apocalypse would draw the human race together and not destroy it even more. Yes you'd get people killing, but rarely for "sport". There would be more people trying to rebuild what they have lost with the abundance of resources around than finding people to kill.

Also, combat isn't even working correctly. I'd rather get into pvp once it isn't broken. Before then... it seems kind of pointless especially because there are very few items of real worth that people have on themselves. As I said, killing for sport in a partial race extinction seems to lose immersion probably more so than safe zones do.

Finally, the current animal population and spawns are not reminiscent of the true and full implementation. We do not know what Xsyon has planned come official release with 16+ more monster types.

[Jadzia]

Since I am a little unclear as to how the PvP works in this game, is it anything like EVE? EVE has safe areas, but does Xsyon? The second I logged in for the first time the other day I was killed by someone.

If there are safe spots, can someone explain that or point me to a faq that does? I don't mind the safe spots -- if anything, that represents police/law enforcement when tribes reach a certain level.
Spawning points are supposed to be safe zones, if it isn't working now it will hopefully work by launch time.

You can create tribes in the game you need 5 people for that. With 5 people joined you can plant a totem, and the surrounding area around the totem will be a safe zone for your tribe's members (if you choose to make an evil tribe your area won't be safe), no one can attack you there, and people who aren't tribemembers can't gather the resources on your land. Your buildings and containers are safe as well.

Solo players can make homesteads, this is similar to a tribe but can't grow. The homestead area is safe as well.

[yoori]

He!!!!!! And what I said, I said becouse if you decide to erase a tribe with 70 members, you'll be able to do it if not alone than with some help and most of them will leave the game.

I like to leave people option if you want to go for total war than go ahead you'll find someone who wants it too, but don't make me do it.

And I really don't like the idea of splitting servers into PvP and PvE it would destroy the game. PvP and Hardcore PvP would be better, but I'm not sure if the population is big enough.

[MrKrueak]

stick with one server, if EVE can do it then so can we.

eve had a bit more money in the beginning to do what they did. eve was built from the ground up to be one world, it is not one server but one world spread across multiple servers, when you go through a gate sometimes you are crossing onto another server. from what i hear xyson was not coded with this in mind, i could be wrong but from what i've read the code would have to be rebuilt to do what eve has done.

[Doc]

This would really kill the persistent, open world feel to the game. Maybe have some areas that will always have a degree of safety but much lesser resources, so tribes who move out to defend their lands get the bonuses that come with it. Splitting the game into PvP and non PvP servers kind of kills the whole idea of Xsyon, a world where you have to learn how to survive along with others, a true open world.

Thats the idea, make current area "starting area" that have safe-zones, especially for new players to get hold of the game systems, as its not <insert maimstream MMO here> where game holds your hand and you can mindlessly play, and with expanded land, for tribe to advance, they have to claim new land (resources).


It would suck if half of this game became naked people ganking each other

It would suck even more if whole game became this, like some people here suggest.

I dont see game with Xsyon setup working as PvE or no rules gankfest game.

[eightonefive]

let's not.

[BigCountry]

from what i hear xyson was not coded with this in mind, i could be wrong but from what i've read the code would have to be rebuilt to do what eve has done.

This is correct. The game/engine cannot add more land/territory, at least that is what Xsyon told us. That's a core difference from the EvE world.

[BigCountry]

NO SPLIT!! final answer :)

Big C from perpetuum?

The one and only.
:D

[BigCountry]

How about 2-4 weeks, and then remove safe zones from the game?

Could everyone live with that?

[Jadzia]

How about 2-4 weeks, and then remove safe zones from the game?

Could everyone live with that?

Lol.

[ifireallymust]

How about 2-4 weeks, and then remove safe zones from the game?

Could everyone live with that?


1. Do the devs have a system set up and ready to try? If not, do you expect them to figure everything out and have it ready in two weeks? What invigorating substances will you be providing them?

If #1 isn't an issue:

2. Can you ask everyone that again in 2-4 weeks? How the heck should most of us even know the answer?

3. Even if every last one of us who started playing over the weekend is eager to bash each other's virtual heads in with virtual shovels in two to four weeks just for something different to do, are new players just coming into the game going to be ready for it? Will there be no safe place for them ever, right from their first moment in game?

[BigCountry]

1. Do the devs have a system set up and ready to try? If not, do you expect them to figure everything out and have it ready in two weeks? What invigorating substances will you be providing them?

If #1 isn't an issue:

2. Can you ask everyone that again in 2-4 weeks? How the heck should most of us even know the answer?

3. Even if every last one of us who started playing over the weekend is eager to bash each other's virtual heads in with virtual shovels in two to four weeks just for something different to do, are new players just coming into the game going to be ready for it? Will there be no safe place for them ever, right from their first moment in game?

Then give them a separate server to play on like I originally suggested.

This game is not that complicated man. 2-4 weeks is plenty of time to figure it out if your serious about playing it.
:D

[ifireallymust]

Then give them a freaking server to play on.

I can't win here...
lol

I was never arguing with you about a FFA pvp server. I think you should poll it and keep the 'what if' 'but' and 'no I'd rather see this instead' crowd out of the thread by a simple yes vote, just so everyone can see how many players want a server with a harsher pvp ruleset ASAP.

[sionide]

Let's be honest, the system isn't in place. Plain and simple.

It's not. Even if it was, it hasn't been be tested in the least. I love PvP. I played UO, Darkfall, Eve for over 2 years 100% in a low-sec pirate corp, etc, etc.

If any of these suggestions for a 2 server system or 3-4 week rush to end Prelude happens, there is going to be a mass exodus of this game (which is not what this game needs right now). I can could see 30+ tribes crumble overnight as only 5 are logged on while everyone else is sleeping and crafting or terraforming. Along comes 6 guys fully set for PvP bum-rushes the crafters and then just loots and destroys everything.

Yeah, right idea! What, wait, no, well there is this system that protects them in this case. Ok what about X, no, no Y is in place too...etc, etc. See how suddenly you mess up 100% of the devs time "fixing" this system and we have no actual development of the game. Let's be honest, this game isn't finished in the least.

How about you give them the 6 months to FINISH this game before doing a major overhaul in what isn't even implemented yet.

If people are so eager to play these FFA games, why aren't they just playing Eve? Darkfall? Perpetuum?

End Prelude early argument = dead, horse, beat.

[fishFUNK]

How is the PvP crowd not satisfied with the rule set right now? It makes PvE'rs still want to be in the game, you still get to full loot and kill virtually anywhere.. If you drive the pve'rs out as someone said earlier, It turns into a naked gank fest. I think so far this is a great compromise between both parties and I hope it continues down this path.

[BigCountry]

I hear ya sion. No one is going to play an unfinished game for 6 months though man - at least not enough to consider and construct it into a healthly sandbox.

If we could at least get the safe zone pvp flag turned off (in say 2-4 weeks after a succesfull launch), that in itself would motivate enough of us to stick around for 6 months. We don't need tribe war or asset destruction, I realize that will take time and careful planning. PvP in the save zones just gives some meaning to the construction and terraforming we will be grinding. There has to be a reason to do it. And it cannot be a 6 month process - that's just too long, there is not enough content outside of that.

[tilla]

This is correct. The game/engine cannot add more land/territory, at least that is what Xsyon told us. That's a core difference from the EvE world.

Where if anywhere did you read this? As far as I've heard the plan has /always/ been to expand to 10 times the land area eventually, as advertised on the homepage.

[ifireallymust]

Why not reverse things? Keep the safe zones, but as soon as possible, let the tribes who want war be able to go to war with other tribes who want war, and of course make the evils attackable anywhere, any time, with juicy bounties on their heads? Why accelerate the removal of the one place in the entire game I can go to when I'm tired of looking over my shoulder (a pretty small place, too, as I'm a Homesteader)? You say you're worried you won't want to stick around for six months if you can't come after me and what I've built whenever you get the urge? Okay, and this might provide meaning and entertainment for you, but why would I want to rebuild everything every few days because of you? Where is the fun or meaning in rebuilding the same structures over and over again?

[fishFUNK]

I hear ya sion. No one is going to play an unfinished game for 6 months though man - at least not enough to consider and construct it into a healthly sandbox.


My problem is you seem to be driving what YOU want and not whats best for the game or the community. I think a very small % of players actually want a FFA PvP no rules server. Its clear you want this to be the next reincarnation of DF.

[BigCountry]

I hate Darkfall. It's a seamless quake arena. I played it for 6 months. Everything you fight over is static.

Fact is, there are a LOT of PvP'ers looking at this game right now (not teen age PKer's - PvP'ers who enjoy politics, crafting and good PvP end game content). Enough to support the game for a good year. And trust me when I say that.

However, most of which will not play Xsyon if you make them grind a sims city builder for 6 months.

[outfctrl]

stick with one server, if EVE can do it then so can we.

Eve has permanent safe zones too. No comparison.

UO has a PVP area and a PVE area. It works very well and brings in the PvP players and the PVE players.

[tilla]

I hate Darkfall. It's a seamless quake arena. I played it for 6 months. Everything you fight over is static.

Fact is, there are a LOT of PvP'ers looking at this game right now (not teen age PKer's - PvP'ers who enjoy politics, crafting and good PvP end game content). Enough to support the game for a good year. And trust me when I say that.

However, most of which will not play Xsyon if you make them grind a sims city builder for 6 months.

My message to those PvPers is 'don't let the door hit you on the way out'. This game is working as it's designed to be at this point.

[fishFUNK]

However, most of which will not play Xsyon if you make them grind a sims city builder for 6 months.

a sim builder? you can kill to your hearts content right now as it is. you just want to be able to grief those poor little workers like tilla ;)

[BigCountry]

Nah man, all there is to do atm is grief. That's the only PvP content/outlet, and the whole point of me creating this thread. I am a PvP'er and I do not want a grieving ass sandbox. Real pvp'ers (the ones who stay and pay the bills) want real pvp content. They don't want smoke and mirrors. They don't want "play my game for 6 months and then maybe you will have it".

[byrgar]

Once again, it seems some people are looking to change a new MMO, into the old MMO they used to play.

For once, I would like to see people in general, just accept that a new MMO, is a new MMO, and play it for what it is, and accept that the Devs have a vision of what the MMO will end up being, and play it for what that vision will be.

It has been stated lots of times in lots of different threads, that yes, there is PVP, and yes, you can loot other players, just like it has been stated that for the duration of Prelude there are safe zones, so why are some people, who seem to be a very vocal minority (yes, minority, I see the same people over and over again, spouting the same diatribe about PVP, safe zones etc etc, while the majority of people in the game right now do not post here at all) trying to have this MMO changed?

You want no safe zones at all, at any time? fine, there are MMO's already out that have no safe zones, why not just go play one of them?

Splitting the population by having different rulesets will do nothing but hurt the game overall.

The PVPers would probably migrate over onto the no safe zone, full loot free for all pvp anytime anywhere server, but how long before they start complaining about the low population on that server and then leave for greener pastures?

What about the "so called PVPers"? you know the ones I mean, those that pretend to be into PVP, but really all they want is a place to grief others, ruin other players gameplay, spoil their fun, gank, get easy kills. Do you really think they will move to the "true" PVP server? hell no, they will stay on the one with safe zones, still trying to grief crafters, and non PVPers, spoiling the fun of those who actually like Xyson as it is, and are willing to trust in how it will be.

Everyone who pre ordered, knew that safe zones existed, if you didnt want them, you should have spent your cash elsewhere.

[Baldur]

It's not about wanting to grief. It's about a world evolving organically like a real world should, the way Xsyon (correct me if I'm wrong) is going for. As opposed to one evolving based on artificial rules that ruin immersion with 'invisible walls', instead of more ambitious game mechanics that one would hope a sandbox game has.

[yoori]

There's plenty of space for PvP outside of tribal area. We're fighting with evil hopi for hours every day and have fun doing it. Although I don't like their childlish comments on chat.

We'll have to trade between tribes to get some resources we don't have and there is no magic "teleport resources button" we'll have to transport then and guard that transport couse people carrying it can be killed and looted. People will hunt and and leave tribe to gain resources. If PvE hunters have to go and find their prey why shouldn't you?

[fishFUNK]

I am a PvP'er and I do not want a grieving ass sandbox. Real pvp'ers (the ones who stay and pay the bills) want real pvp content.

I love to PvP, I love the fact that I can lose my stuff at any moment. But I also know that if the PvE'rs leave ( the REAL ones that pay the bills) due to not having a place to make their shag rugs and oven mitts in a safe enviornment this game will go to crap. I want an EvE niche type game, not DF niche.

[Tom316]

Why not reverse things? Keep the safe zones, but as soon as possible, let the tribes who want war be able to go to war with other tribes who want war, and of course make the evils attackable anywhere, any time, with juicy bounties on their heads? Why accelerate the removal of the one place in the entire game I can go to when I'm tired of looking over my shoulder (a pretty small place, too, as I'm a Homesteader)? You say you're worried you won't want to stick around for six months if you can't come after me and what I've built whenever you get the urge? Okay, and this might provide meaning and entertainment for you, but why would I want to rebuild everything every few days because of you? Where is the fun or meaning in rebuilding the same structures over and over again?

You have hit the nail on the head. There are ALOT more people that would up and leave if FFA PVP was just turned on. Even after 4-6 weeks time. None of the crafters are going to want to stick around rebuilding things just because a pker or group of pkers decided to roll through and destory / take the work they just did. I know if I logged out one night and logged back in the next day and seen everything I had been working on the last week just up and destoried and taken away, that I would leave an never look back at the game.

This quote below

After prelude- will tribes be able to conquer other tribe lands by destroying their totem?
Yes. How this will work is not fully decided yet. Since we first started working on Xsyon, many games have come out with some good ideas for this type of warfare. We're going to spend some time checking these out before we implement what we think is the best solution.

Is no longer true. Jookie was ingame durning the end of beta and it was heavly talked about and last I remember reading he had changed his mind to only allow expansion totems to be taken over. Main Trible tokens are intended to be safe areas and not destoryable.

Alot of people have to take into consideration that the reasion he has picked such a far date out 6 months or so is because the CURRENT combat system is going to be replaced. The current system is broken and a complete mess. Anyone that has done any bit of fighting will tell you its not working the way it should be. Not to mention its way to easy to aim bot up on someone and then all you have to do is click left or right mouse button and your almost always granteed a hit on them.

[ifireallymust]

It's not about wanting to grief. It's about a world evolving organically like a real world should, the way Xsyon (correct me if I'm wrong) is going for. As opposed to one evolving based on artificial rules that ruin immersion with 'invisible walls', instead of more ambitious game mechanics that one would hope a sandbox game has.

Humans are nasty, greedy, violent, and selfish creatures. A real post-apocolyptic world of confused amnesiacs struggling to survive wouldn't be fun, it would be a bloody nightmare. You seem to want that reality, but there's another reality you're ignoring.

Humans are also, cowardly, and (if not completely insane) focused on self-preservation above all else.

Now, which one of these realistic traits is not actually in the organic, evolving MMO world you imagine? That's right. Self preservation. If you lose a fight, you don't even have to reroll, reskill, and regear, you just dust yourself off, get an alt or a buddy to supply you with what little your intended victim took from you, and you're back out there wreaking havoc. And your victims aren't as likely to spend time banding together to destroy you because 1.) they can't, no permadeath and 2.) They aren't actually motivated by survival instinct either.

[MrKrueak]

Nah man, all there is to do atm is grief. That's the only PvP content/outlet, and the whole point of me creating this thread. I am a PvP'er and I do not want a grieving ass sandbox. Real pvp'ers (the ones who stay and pay the bills) want real pvp content. They don't want smoke and mirrors. They don't want "play my game for 6 months and then maybe you will have it".

if you want real pvp content than i would say go somewhere else for awhile and come back after a few months after they worked on the pvp aspect of xsyon, they have stated that xsyon is meant to be more of a life simulator than a pvp centric game. I would say PVP is not their primarcy concern at the moment and probably will not be for abit after launch.

by the way i wan't telling you to leave because you like to pvp just pointing out it doesn't seem like what you want will be here for a while.

[Deacon]

I'll come at this from a different perspective. While I applaud Jooky and team for creating a game I am enjoying....I dont want to see them dividing their already stretched resources and attention between two servers codes...and yes, no matter how slight the difference....a change to one code set will have different consequences for the other.

Not only would they have to code it, then comes testing, then applying it, then bug squashes, make this X2...then we have slower progress here. So this would certainly delay any updates that would be coming down the pipe. Even if doing them one at a time...they still take time away from first server. and if they say they have resources to hire more programmers...then hire them for this game I already bought...not some secondary venture.

I have recognised many names from Roma Victor game, and those players should recall how Redbedlam divided attention between RV and their "Other" projects...to the detriment and failure of that game...and updates were far and few there.....with litereraly each update becoming a major disappointment.

[Doc]

I'll come at this from a different perspective. While I applaud Jooky and team for creating a game I am enjoying....I dont want to see them dividing their already stretched resources and attention between two servers codes...and yes, no matter how slight the difference....a change to one code set will have different consequences for the other.

Not only would they have to code it, then comes testing, then applying it, then bug squashes, make this X2...then we have slower progress here. So this would certainly delay any updates that would be coming down the pipe. Even if doing them one at a time...they still take time away from first server. and if they say they have resources to hire more programmers...then hire them for this game I already bought...not some secondary venture.

I have recognised many names from Roma Victor game, and those players should recall how Redbedlam divided attention between RV and their "Other" projects...to the detriment and failure of that game...and updates were far and few there.....with litereraly each update becoming a major disappointment.

I dont think it would take that much resources, if evil is supposed to work like "be attacked anywhere anytime, no safe zone for you", its just a matter of switching every homestead/tribe to default evil.

[jhorodysky]

I do not think they should split up the community by making two servers and I also do not agree with removing the safe zones too early. One of the main things that is different about this game compared to other games like EVE, DF, MO, is that there are no NPCs or NPC cities for players to start in or go to. I've always felt that that was the point of prelude, to build up places like that. However, you have to give people the time to do it and the protection to do it. If stuff gets destroyed over and over again in the beginning of the game, then people will just say forget it and those places won't get built. Once stuff is significantly built up then remove all safe zones and go at it. :)

Plus as another poster stated, the combat isn't final. They need time to work it out.

If you don't like it as it is, I would say come back in a little while, once everything is worked out and built up, and then have fun trying to tear it all down. :)

[otomotopia]

Big country, you should realize that most of us do agree with your main point, but we shouldn't implement it now, rather we should do it later.

Why? I'll appeal to the PvP demographic here, as I am a PvP player myself. I'm not usually condescending to PvE players because I do see their point as well- they share the world with us and have (admittedly unwillingly) given up some of their freedoms for us to have more fun.

Most of the reasons the PvE players posted have meaning to them, and they're half the server. It takes us 2 weeks to get enough crap done and set up an awesome defense-able area. We need to make relations with players around us and form up a political sphere before we go conquering them anyway.

[orious13]

First of all...

I say there should be no implementation of dismantling any safe zones until they have both finished the initial game mechanic improvements and improved/fixed combat. Actively seeking pvp in a semi-broken combat system seems a little stupid especially if changes are already planned as one of the priorities.

Then after this (however many weeks it has been), the best solution is exactly what has been stated...

Allow tribes to 'flag' as an unsafe zone. The safe zone can still be in effect for that tribe if another unflagged and safe tribe member enters to try and kill. But between the flagged tribes, each of their territories are not safe. OR just make flagging remove their safe zone in general. I'm sure with the influx of DF guilds that there will be numerous "unsafe zones".

Xsyon plans to allow players to start in player made tribes. These tribes need to be safe ones.

Then after prelude...whatever happens happens.

[Dubanka]

you need some level of safety net...especially if we're talking asset & territory destruction/conqueroring/control.

I think Eve has it right, and a similar compromise should be implemented here.

certain sectors of the map allow for the 'safe zone' effect of the tribal/homestead area. These areas would be relatively few, and not overly abundant in resources. THe incentive for building here is to 'play house' and to pvp on your terms...ie. when you walk out of your doors.

The majority of the map would then be without the tribal area safe zone...with tribes and members free to fully embrace the chaos of politics, the ebb and flow of alliances and of course the resulting conflict.

*shrug* would seem to satisfy both camps, and furthermore, allow the tentative to get their feet wet without having to move to another server to 'try it out'.

[FPrime]

Once again, it seems some people are looking to change a new MMO, into the old MMO they used to play.

For once, I would like to see people in general, just accept that a new MMO, is a new MMO, and play it for what it is, and accept that the Devs have a vision of what the MMO will end up being, and play it for what that vision will be.


Great post. I snipped it down to the part I feel is most essential. I would kind of like to just copy and paste this all over the forum. :D

I know people get excited and want to share their hopes and ideas, but let's not all put on chef's hats and spoil this soup.

[BigCountry]

Big country, you should realize that most of us do agree with your main point, but we shouldn't implement it now, rather we should do it later.

Why? I'll appeal to the PvP demographic here, as I am a PvP player myself. I'm not usually condescending to PvE players because I do see their point as well- they share the world with us and have (admittedly unwillingly) given up some of their freedoms for us to have more fun.

Most of the reasons the PvE players posted have meaning to them, and they're half the server. It takes us 2 weeks to get enough crap done and set up an awesome defense-able area. We need to make relations with players around us and form up a political sphere before we go conquering them anyway.

I know. And this is a GREAT community. You guys are great. Thread after thread we discuss and debate, and every thread is civil. That in itself is something for us all to be very proud of.

My real concern is atm, if they wait 6 months, myself, and all of the friends I am playing the game with, are going to lose interest. That is the feedback I received over the weekend, and that is why I fed it to the community this morning to get some feedback. We are not looking to change anything, or play something we played 13 years ago (not sure where that stemmed from).

All we are asking for, in a nutshell, is less time on enabling the game to how the devs invisioned it (no safe zones), so the world will build correctly and no one is wasting their time with construction.

[Doc]

I know. And this is a GREAT community. You guys are great. Thread after thread we discuss and debate, and every thread is civil. That in itself is something for us all to be very proud of.

My real concern is atm, if they wait 6 months, myself, and all of the friends I am playing the game with, are going to lose interest. That is the feedback I received over the weekend, and that is why I fed it to the community this morning to get some feedback. We are not looking to change anything, or play something we played 13 years ago (not sure where that stemmed from).

All we are asking for, in a nutshell, is less time on enabling the game to how the devs invisioned it (no safe zones), so the world will build correctly and no one is wasting their time with construction.

You have to understand game is half-finished, and allowing prelude to finish early is sure way to disaster. I guess all of us would like all the features and other stuff are already ingame, but Xsyon has great potential and most people are willing to invest in that potential, and just bare with development, more on the line of "implement when ready". I hope that world will be "big enough" to hold both "carebears" and "PvPers", its something EvE managed to do, but its just not there yet (and prolly wont be there for a while), and both "groups" have to make sacrifices, and thats the setup atm.

[Klecko]

OP See ,you really dont want true pvp.What you what is p v sheep.Lets look at Darkfall when the sheep left the game you had nobody to kill and the game is dead.Why dont you want safe zones?People in the tribe area will be crafting & building they are not ready for pvp.So why do u want to fight people who are not ready?O i know ,because you dont really want pvp you want to kill sheep.

[BigCountry]

OP See ,you really dont want true pvp.What you what is p v sheep.Lets look at Darkfall when the sheep left the game you had nobody to kill and the game is dead.Why dont you want safe zones?People in the tribe area will be crafting & building they are not ready for pvp.So why do u want to fight people who are not ready?O i know ,because you dont really want pvp you want to kill sheep.

Nah man, I want people to realize what they are getting into when they buy and play this game. I think your missing that point. I do not want safe zones because it is not what this game represents. They are going to get turned off, the devs have declared that. I am simply trying to discuss more options and information that has been filtered thru me by the guys I am playing the game with so everyone playing this game knows what it represents, can react accordingly and construct the world accordingly. It's not a solo protected sim builder. We have quite a few new players thinking it is so.

[Klecko]

Nah man, I want people to realize what they are getting into when they buy and play this game. I think your missing that point. I do not want safe zones because it is not what this game represents. They are going to get turned off, the devs have declared that. I am simply trying to discuss more options and information that has been filtered thru me by the guys I am playing the game with so everyone playing this game knows what it represents, can react accordingly and construct the world accordingly. It's not a solo protected sim builder. We have quite a few new players thinking it is so.

Originally Posted by BigCountry
FFA PvP and The ability to lose your land needs to be implemented sooner than the later if you ask me.

The world needs to shape in accordance to how people are going to play/expect the world to be. Or else it will form in a non-natural way.

For example, if FFA PvP were in place right now, which it should be, we would ALL be fortifying our territories with walls, water (or some sort of security mechanism). And that's exactly what would happen if this were RL - the first thing to do would be security to protect yourself and your belongings. This is post apoc last time I checked....we are not pilgram settlers....look at the logo/graphic up top for crying out loud, hehe

FFA PvP would cause people to ban together, start cities, start government, start politics, declare wars, etc. It's just the way of things.

ATM I do not see how a random spawn of racoons or bears is going to do that.


Xsyon mentioned 2 servers, a PvE and a PvP. Perhaps with all the lag/leaks we experienced, maybe it would not be such a bad idea to wipe with 2 servers, a FFA PvP and a PvE. He makes money with both and everyone is happy.



This coming from a guy who sat at the newbie spawn point, killing the same person over and over about 7 times with 4 friends? lol. Ironic at best. Not saying I care, I had logged in for the first time and was learning controls and what to do. I just find it slightly hypocritical.

So this is the pvp you want ,just like i said p v sheep