Here's the final question

[KeithStone]

In the features list it states: "Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings"

So the final question I have is this: Can a tribe opt out of wars and being seiged when the time comes for wars and seiging?

[BigCountry]

If it's all consensual I am not really sure how it can exist Keith. They really opened a huge can of worms with this one.

I cannot imagine trying to campaign a war againts someone who has territories not wishing to participate. I just do not see how it could be done?

[bruisie159]

Not you 2 again!

[BigCountry]

Having taken everything in from today's forum wars, I do not think this game is ready yet.

Just way too many questions not answered. Too many important questions. I am not getting a good sense of direction on how to play atm.

I guess we will all just have to leave it at that and hope for the best. We paid for 2 months. That's all we can do I guess.

[bruisie159]

Having taken everything in from today's forum wars, I do not think this game is ready yet.

Just way too many questions not answered. Too many important questions. I am not getting a good sense of direction on how to play atm.

I guess we will all just have to leave it at that and hope for the best. We paid for 2 months. That's all we can do I guess.

Questions are answered. There is a vision for the game - one of fairness to the player base. anti griefing and compromise as i said in another thread. It IS possible to please a large % of the player base and i think xsyon will do that well.

Maybe, just maybe, you will be part of the small percentage that doesnt get totally what you want and if you're not willing to compromise then its not the game for you. And i really dont mean that to be offensive, just saying.

[orious13]

There will be many warring and many non warring guilds.

It's unrealistic to think that everywhere is going to be a state of constant war.

[Doc]

Having taken everything in from today's forum wars, I do not think this game is ready yet.

Just way too many questions not answered. Too many important questions. I am not getting a good sense of direction on how to play atm.

I guess we will all just have to leave it at that and hope for the best. We paid for 2 months. That's all we can do I guess.

True, true, but we are all in the same boat, and you know what they say about rocking boats and all :)

[BigCountry]

Questions are answered. There is a vision for the game - one of fairness to the player base. anti griefing and compromise as i said in another thread. It IS possible to please a large % of the player base and i think xsyon will do that well.

Nothing is answered dude.

What is the objective in playing this game as a group? it HAS NOT BEEN ANSWERED. And it keeps freaking chaging like a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

Is it nothing more than the sims online with terraforming? Hell at least the sims has some sort of objective? lol

[bruisie159]

.
Is it nothing more than the sims online with terraforming?

No, it has FFA PVP outside of a small tribal safe zone. Full loot. Tribal warfare and in the future the possibility of fighting over resources when new areas open up. I know thats not confirmed but tbh i dont think many people would object to that scenario.

[Niburu]

Nothing is answered dude.

What is the objective in playing this game as a group? it HAS NOT BEEN ANSWERED. And it keeps freaking chaging like a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

Is it nothing more than the sims online with terraforming? Hell at least the sims has some sort of objective? lol

If everything goes right we will see this in 6-9 month when they release Tribal Wars

[Kaisermn]

Well, I would hazard a guess that people who are not flagged for pvp will be protected (true) but will not be able to conquer any territories around them either. So in a way, if you are a non-pvp fanatic (like me) you can still enjoy the terraforming/building/crafting aspect of the game and relax with a beer after a hard day at work and teaching my kid his homework. But also be in danger of being beaten and robbed every time I wander off my homestead.

I like this compromise.

Now if later a few players and I band together and decide that we would like, after all, to join the pvp fray because, darn it, we are too bored of building stuff then the option is there for us. I don't see what the problem with this would be.

[MrKrueak]

I don't see what the problem with this would be.

most don't see a problem with it except for the few hardcore pvp players that roam from mmo to mmo trying to change the vision to how they see it should work, these same ones don't understand Xsyon was never meant to be a pvp centric game it was meant to be a life/world simulator first with pvp as an addition

[orious13]

If people would just realize it isn't supposed to be pvp centric nothing should be a surprise. It's not like you will have no wars. Once things are built the only thing to do is have fun warring or whatever boss/pve content is availiable.

People act like pvp is gone now... when it isn't.

I love pvp...

[sionide]

Not you 2 again!

Lol.

Ok but honest question. Those 2 (KeithStone and Big Country) or JCatano and Immaculate?

[dxwarlock]

You build some useless huts, pull some grass, call it a day ;p

EDIT: We've been saying this since last March and now people are finally starting to figure out there is no purpose to anything you do in this game at the moment.

as apposed to killing some useless avatars, looting some virtual items, claiming some non tangible land and calling it a day?

anything in an MMO is "useless" to do, it boils down to each player killing time in real life to have fun..if someone enjoys running in a circle around a trashpile for 8 hours a day..so be it..its no more or less useless than PvP or city building..its paying 15 bucks a month to have a place to kill time.

just because you see no enjoyment in the activities, does not mean they aren't enjoyable as a whole. Why does an activity that does not interest you, mean the option for it has to be removed?

it would be like stating "other than having some scraps of old paper, putting them in a book, and calling it a day..whats there to do in stamp collecting?"

[mrcalhou]

No, it has FFA PVP outside of a small tribal safe zone. Full loot. Tribal warfare and in the future the possibility of fighting over resources when new areas open up. I know thats not confirmed but tbh i dont think many people would object to that scenario.

That wouldn't bother me, but with the way it seems. You just upend your totem, move your tribe, then make a new safe zone next to that resource. Or you have your tribe break apart and make "homesteads" around a few resources.

[Toughluck]

You paid for two months - I assume that means you will spend most of that complaining in the forums. Ask for refund. This game is not like DFO and I doubt it ever will be. In 3 weeks of play you must of realized that this game is about balance between the PVE and crafting crowd and those that enjoy limited style PVP. The ingame guides and the moderators in the forums are enforcing civility. Your idea of the game was wrong. I am sorry for that. I think in the end this game will look more like the highly successful EVE Online not the troubled DFO and MO.

[mrcalhou]

You paid for two months - I assume that means you will spend most of that complaining in the forums. Ask for refund. This game is not like DFO and I doubt it ever will be. In 3 weeks of play you must of realized that this game is about balance between the PVE and crafting crowd and those that enjoy limited style PVP. The ingame guides and the moderators in the forums are enforcing civility. Your idea of the game was wrong. I am sorry for that. I think in the end this game will look more like the highly successful EVE Online not the troubled DFO and MO.

Yeah, it might look like Eve if they developers implement a system so that safe zones can only be placed in certain locations. Otherwise there's nothing stoping people from just placing safe zones over all the resource nodes.

[FabricSoftener]

If it's all consensual I am not really sure how it can exist Keith. They really opened a huge can of worms with this one.

I cannot imagine trying to campaign a war againts someone who has territories not wishing to participate. I just do not see how it could be done?

'I like to play scrabble'
'oh yeah? I like to play buggle and the rules in buggles clearly state that you are required buggle with me even if you dont want to'

Sorry, the 'your playing an pvp game' doesnt get you out of this one because you are clearly stating that in order for pvp to work you have to force people who dont want to into playing.

hmmm

[dxwarlock]

For me to invest some time into this game and into building a city, those buildings, those walls and any other structures should serve some in-game function. To build it just as something to look at is pretty shallow.

If you think building a city just for the purpose of looking at it is fun I don't know what to say. Some people, believe it or not, like a challenge in the games they play and work collectively on something to strive towards.
you dont need to know what to say, as there is 5 billion people in the world, you dont need to know why each one of them likes what they like..all you need to do is understand all of the other 4.99 billion don't all have your mindset. and respect it. its a rather closed minded outlook to have to go "I dont like that style of play..so obviously mine is superior".
you can kill me on 99.99% of the map, and Im fine with that..why is it that last 0.01% annoys you so?

and Some people, believe it or not, enjoy building/creating/getting home from work and wanting to just kick back and play, they made Will Wright as well other other tycoon/sim/builder game developers rich. you ever play MS flight sim? its an amazingly popular game, but just because you can go "why the f*ck do people want to pretend they are flying from one airport to another with no dogfights?" doesn't mean that any amount of you going "that playstyle is boring" is going to make them go "wow your right my friend, how did I not realize this before?"

[Tom316]

For me to invest some time into this game and into building a city, those buildings, those walls and any other structures should serve some in-game function. To build it just as something to look at is pretty shallow.

If you think building a city just for the purpose of looking at it is fun I don't know what to say. Some people, believe it or not, like a challenge in the games they play and work collectively on something to strive towards.

And just as many like to build a city to have done it. Look at Minecraft. Sold over a million copies and there is ZERO purpose in that game.

It seems sandbox games are not your type of game if you can not find your own purpose / goal within the a game. A sandbox game is about giving you limited tools and letting you play with them and craft what you with within the tools at hand. In this case we are given a world where we CAN war if we choose to or we can shape it how we want it to look within the confines of the tools at hand.

Sadly it seems alot of people are use to themepark games and must be hand held and told exactly what to do and how to do it. Xsyon is a sandbox or as close as we can get right now. We are given some general rules and the tools to shape the world as we see fit. People can goto WAR if these choose or they can be the suppliers of the people going to WAR or the ones that protect the land, ect.

From your posts it seems Xsyon is just not the game for you. And thats ok, not every game is for everyone and theres other games out there in the sea for you to goto. Maybe DFO or MO or Earthrise or a number of others.

[MrKrueak]

DXWarlock, well said other than we are actually getting close to 7 billion now in the world :P

[Gracen]

most don't see a problem with it except for the few hardcore pvp players that roam from mmo to mmo trying to change the vision to how they see it should work, these same ones don't understand Xsyon was never meant to be a pvp centric game it was meant to be a life/world simulator first with pvp as an addition

Well the problem with this statement is life/world HAS war and fights. Not just with other countries but even neighbors in a subdivison have fights/wars. I am not condoning griefing at all but if USA decided to go take over Mexico then guess what? We would do it. If we want to go fuck with Iraq and Saudi Arabia for oil and resources and use a false pretense, guess what.... So, in response, if this is a life/world simulator then let it simulate it.

[MrKrueak]

It's not a sandbox if there are restrictions on what you can do (see safezones). I hate this 'what constitutes sandbox' argument, though. The sandbox community is so out to lunch in general it's absurd.

I've played darkfall since eu launch, so... maybe this isn't your game? Why don't you go play a tale in the desert. See? I can be truly ridiculous, too.

there is not pure definition of what constitutes a sandbox mmo, it is all subjective. Sandbox mmos usually refer to a game that has a "LIMITED" ruleset, no predefined path, player driven, etc. the key word for the ruleset is limited. one rule limiting a very small portion of the game does not negate a game from being designated as a sandbox especially when that one rule has no effect on 99% of the game.

[Tehralph]

No sir, this is not the final question. Many more will be asked. Now please, quit making these useless threads.

[mrcalhou]

No sir, this is not the final question. Many more will be asked. Now please, quit making these useless threads.

Thank you for the bump.

[MrKrueak]

Well the problem with this statement is life/world HAS war and fights. Not just with other countries but even neighbors in a subdivison have fights/wars. I am not condoning griefing at all but if USA decided to go take over Mexico then guess what? We would do it. If we want to go fuck with Iraq and Saudi Arabia for oil and resources and use a false pretense, guess what.... So, in response, if this is a life/world simulator then let it simulate it.

you are correct but there would be consequences, such does not exist in xyson and what is planned isn't enough to deter the griefers from doing what they do. the fact is in completely open ffa games the vast majority of pkers think griefing players at spawn points is pvp. the few that will use the feature as intended will be a minority to the ones that just want to ruin others time. this is always the case from my experiences. There has to be compromise and some sort of safety area for those that don't want to watch over their shoulders all the time.

basically it doesn't matter what we want, it matters what the devs want they are the ones that have the vision, we are just paying to play in that vision not change it.

[Corvus]

And just as many like to build a city to have done it. Look at Minecraft. Sold over a million copies and there is ZERO purpose in that game.

It seems sandbox games are not your type of game if you can not find your own purpose / goal within the a game. A sandbox game is about giving you limited tools and letting you play with them and craft what you with within the tools at hand. In this case we are given a world where we CAN war if we choose to or we can shape it how we want it to look within the confines of the tools at hand.

Sadly it seems alot of people are use to themepark games and must be hand held and told exactly what to do and how to do it. Xsyon is a sandbox or as close as we can get right now. We are given some general rules and the tools to shape the world as we see fit. People can goto WAR if these choose or they can be the suppliers of the people going to WAR or the ones that protect the land, ect.

From your posts it seems Xsyon is just not the game for you. And thats ok, not every game is for everyone and theres other games out there in the sea for you to goto. Maybe DFO or MO or Earthrise or a number of others.

Do you even know what a sandbox game is? Pray tell, look it up.

[mrcalhou]

I think letting tribes have safe areas is fine. I do not think it will be fine if tribes can just up and move their safe zone where ever they please, and it'd be so imbalanced if tribes can just spread, and claim more land and designate all of that as safe. There needs to be some restrictions on this with regards to placing safe zones around resources.

[Zenmaster13]

Well the problem with this statement is life/world HAS war and fights. Not just with other countries but even neighbors in a subdivison have fights/wars. I am not condoning griefing at all but if USA decided to go take over Mexico then guess what? We would do it. If we want to go fuck with Iraq and Saudi Arabia for oil and resources and use a false pretense, guess what.... So, in response, if this is a life/world simulator then let it simulate it.

Sure and if your character dies, let it suffer perma-death, just like real life. Attention: This is a game, not real life, meant to simulate real life to a certain extent, not to it's fullest. If it was, I would be able to round up gankers and griefers, and slap them in jail for their crimes(silly i know).

[Tehralph]

I think letting tribes have safe areas is fine. I do not think it will be fine if tribes can just up and move their safe zone where ever they please, and it'd be so imbalanced if tribes can just spread, and claim more land and designate all of that as safe. There needs to be some restrictions on this with regards to placing safe zones around resources.
Easy. Just have the base tribal lands as safe, anything counted as extended land is free game. Like a capitol city and its surrounding fields and towns.

Edit: Im not trying to imply that in RL farms are free game, just saying that they would be hard to protect. And safe zones are to simulate daily security detail that no one is a game wants to do.

[BigCountry]

basically it doesn't matter what we want, it matters what the devs want they are the ones that have the vision, we are just paying to play in that vision not change it.

That's the thing, I have no clue what the 2 devs want right now or which direction they are taking this game. They sold me on a FFA PVP, now they are nerfing it off with a consensual flag. How did that work out for PotBC? Those guys did the same thing, and that game flopped harder than a fat person at Sea World....

A true sandbox mmorpg does not have any rules. The players create the rules and govern each other. It's that simple, that's what defines it and draws people into it. All the devs do is "Dungeon Master" the world their players interact in.

[Tehralph]

That's the thing, I have no clue what the 2 devs want right now or which direction they are taking this game. They sold me on a FFA PVP, now they are nerfing it off with a consensual flag. How did that work out for PotBC? Those guys did the same thing. And that game now makes money off an item mall model....

A true sandbox mmorpg does not have any rules. The players create the rules and govern each other. It's that simple, that's what defines it.

Yes but its also a game. Unlike real life, we cant be in-game to protect our city 24/7. There has to be some mechanic to take the chore out of daily tasks, like keeping crime out of a city.

[MrKrueak]

A true sandbox mmorpg does not have any rules.

that is subjective as their is no true definition of what a sandbox is, but what people think it should be. My subjective opinion is that it has limited rules, and player driven.

if we go by your definition then there has not been many sandbox mmo's, people consider eve online a sandbox yet it has safe areas, people considered swg pre nge a sandbox yet it wasn't FFA either as you can see again it is all subjective.

[BigCountry]

Yes but its also a game. Unlike real life, we cant be in-game to protect our city 24/7. There has to be some mechanic to take the chore out of daily tasks, like keeping crime out of a city.

Then you build walls to protect it. That's simple. That was your plan right? You need to do that anyway PvP flag or not. Walls are a must in this game if you plan to leave any stacked resources on the ground.

[BigCountry]

The only sandbox to EvE is 0.0 sec.

And that place has zero rules.

It's the heartbeat of the game.
:D

[MrKrueak]

The only sandbox to EvE is 0.0 sec.

And that place has zero rules.

It's the heartbeat of the game.
:D

but that is only 25% of the game, majority of the player base is in high sec, you pvpers in xyson will have 95% of the game to apply your trade

[fflhktsn]

Then you build walls to protect it. That's simple. That was your plan right? You need to do that anyway PvP flag or not. Walls are a must in this game if you plan to leave any stacked resources on the ground.

Wait, you dont have a toggle for an invisible force field around your home?

[dxwarlock]

Wait, you dont have a toggle for an invisible force field around your home?
wait, you dont have a 30 second respawn to life option when you die in real life?
also dont have a bag thats 12 inches around that can hold 50 stacks of large log poles?
or even a totally disappear when you decide to take a break from being a person running around so no one can hurt or find you? (logging off)
lets remove them also then, as they dont exist in the real world either

these attempts to relate "real life" to a twisted view of what constitues logical rules/mechanics in a virtual world never work..

[BigCountry]

Regardless of where this game goes, the current ruleset allows someone to come into your chit and "sort" any stacked resources you have piled up. So I would build walls man regardless of which side of the fence you on in all of this. Just saying.

[fflhktsn]

What.... is that a burn or a zing?

Remove the safe zones and i wont bitch if they put in perma death.

see what i did there?

[dxwarlock]

I can agree with you on that Big, I have no issue with that..it sucks. but its part of the game.
Its part of the risk I take hording resources..and having to protect them,

[Fahadius]

Personally, I'd like to see the area around the lake be where tribes can build in safety, but with lower amounts/quality junk piles and other resources. Farther out, getting much closer to the fog (and possibly beyond at some point) the open pvp areas could be placed; while life here would be dangerous, the highest quality and amounts of resources would be placed. Non-pvp tribes could still risk themselves and venture out into the pvp area to gather resources, or hire some mercenaries to protect them while they're out there. It'd be similar to low-sec and high-sec in EVE - You could life your entire career in high-sec if you wanted; you could venture out occasionally to the low-sec areas if you wanted; or you could live out in the low-sec.

Basically it comes down to catering to PvP/PvE equally; the gatherers and the builders are the foundation of the game - without them, the world would just be a giant FPS with bows and swords. I know true PvP'ers hate the idea of safe zones, but I don't think it's any more fair to force PvP on people than it would be to make all PvP consentual.

That said, I'm a PvP'er at heart, but I know that the world doesn't run without those who would build it back up after we destroy it.

[mrcalhou]

I'm more of a PvE'er at heart, but I love me some market PvP. What I'm worried about is people setting up safe zones in areas that are resource heavy and negating other people from getting to them. If resources are too common then there will be little to no market (yes, resources are common in Eve, but resources are also region specific and peoples stuff gets destroyed enough to compensate), and if a tribe or alliance sets a monopoly on resources then the market will likely collapse as well.

Now, if players could set up safe zones in proximity to resources, but not actually over "a lot" of resources, and there was some mechanism in place to hinder safe-tribal city movement then I'd be perfectly fine, and actually encourage, safe zones. But I don't think just have a city toggle would work, because, quite frankly, there would be no point to it.

[Klecko]

Then you build walls to protect it. That's simple. That was your plan right? You need to do that anyway PvP flag or not. Walls are a must in this game if you plan to leave any stacked resources on the ground.

I will agree with you on the fact that i dont want safe zones after prelude.We have 6 months to build up our defence.With a good plan you should be able to fight off a town raid or at least get to your keep and lock it down and fight with your bows off of the walls.I want to defend our town.if my tribe dosent want to flag our town for pvp ,Ill start a homestead and you can come and raid me evey night with your crew,and ill take pride in how well i built my little camp 's defence.


I know this is Jooky's game ,and i will play with the rules that i am given

[Dagon]

To all of those that want more PvP: Think about it this way, if someone builds a huge city with 100 tribemembers living there i a safe area, they will still need food and materials for all of them. That will require them to get out of there safe zone. That where the PvP comes in outside the territoy wars.
Safe zones will lead to big settlements that cant supply themselfes out of their area and this will lead to something to hunt for.

[blackzilla]

Nothing is answered dude.

What is the objective in playing this game as a group? it HAS NOT BEEN ANSWERED. And it keeps freaking chaging like a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

Is it nothing more than the sims online with terraforming? Hell at least the sims has some sort of objective? lol

Seriously!? You better go read Xyson's update, and re-read it, until you understand it. It is clear as mud. There will be options for opting in and out of war during pre-lude. After pre-lude in 6-9months there will be no option, war is futile and you have no choice.... Quit being a bunch of friggin numpty's. Geesus how do you people get up in the morning and dress yourselves, it really does boggle my mind.