PK and onsequences

[rixk]

Current situation where PKs roam around naked and using hand to hand should not continue, especially when you want some meaning behind PvP. Full loot game, where agressor has nothing to lose doesn't promise anything good. Reading ingame chat there are already players, whose goal is to gank every new player who enters the game.

EDIT: typo in the title :D And can't fix that..

[Virtus]

You can fix it, click edit then go to advanced mode :)

The main thing allowing PKers to do this at the moment is the broken combat system. Once the calculations are done correctly then you will see fists being a lot less useful.

Right now it is easy to gank players but once others start leveling up skills etc it will be much more difficult for them


However, that said, This is open PvP expect people to attack you. Tribes will need to post sentries and guard caravans to keep an eye out for vagrants.

You will have to remember that not everyone is a ganker/griefier and that you as a tribe/community will need to, now and then, fight back against these guys to keep them at bay.

[Atmos]

Virtus beat me. His was probably nicer too.

[Virtus]

In addition, consequences, which will be modified as necessary, will keep gankers at bay. They will get sick of things happening to them like returning to the totem every time they die. I'm sure there will be more things put in place. Jooky will not let this be over run by griefers

[DaAzub]

You carebears always complain about everything, just for losing a bit of clothing sheesh...

[Burnt]

You carebears always complain about everything, just for losing a bit of clothing sheesh...

All rixk did was bring up a game mechanic that is affecting gameplay at the moment, which was confirmed, by virtus, to be broken. No one was complaining, and we got some nice information as well :)

[DaAzub]

All rixk did was bring up a game mechanic that is affecting gameplay at the moment, which was confirmed, by virtus, to be broken. No one was complaining, and we got some nice information as well :)
But the dude brought about naked Pkers that obviously killed him, which leads to an extent that he raged, which is a Care Bear trait.

[Atmos]

people fighting naked without weapons isn't necessarily what is broken. Quite a few people don't have a choice but to fight naked and bare-fisted due to server rollback incidents. Right now it doesn't even matter, it's a good way to get some experience with the combat system and as Virtus already said, the combat system is far from complete.

[Burnt]

But the dude brought about naked Pkers that obviously killed him, which leads to an extent that he raged, which is a Care Bear trait.

Well I am happy you can define a 'care bear', but labeling someone who starts a thread as complaining is pointless. Yeah atmos, except virtus just said it is broken :D And yes, it doesn't matter, so why would anyone complain anyway?

[DaAzub]

Point is from my statement, is stop the whining or complaining, the Devs or Dev, should know what can be done about the PvP case.
I believe they already read a lot of recommendations for this and that, which they have to compromise of what is good or not.
Cut them some slack for a bit.

[rixk]

But the dude brought about naked Pkers that obviously killed him, which leads to an extent that he raged, which is a Care Bear trait.

Shush, go back ganking.. I mean PvP-ing.. Playing carebear detector doesn't help with the issue. Still thanks for caring, but I haven't been killed recently.. The situation, where agressor can only win and has no chance to lose anything, while victim can only lose and has nothing to win is wrong.
Thanks Virtus for answers.

[BigCountry]

The situation, where agressor can only win and has no chance to lose anything, while victim can only lose and has nothing to win is wrong.

?

[zettoz]

I am liking the consequences of ganking so far

[MrKrueak]

You will have to remember that not everyone is a ganker/griefier .

this may be true to some extent but every FFA mmo in existence is mostly about the gank, the majority of players think PVP is all about killing everyone on sight regardless of lvl, age etc and those same people will usually camp those same areas and most of the time that area will be spawn points. dunno why i guess it makes their virtual "*****" larger. I'd bet maybe 25% of the xyson pop will do what i call honorable pvp. some of the same people posting on these forum inregard to pvp are already camping newb spawn points and griefing players. FFA pvp without safe areas only work for awhile until the majority of the playerbase quits and the game dies a slow death. there has to be a compromise, companies need to take a look at how eve online is set up and take notes, they've done it the way it should be IMO.

[esudar]

last time i checked this forum people didnt want meaningfull pvp because this is not a pvp game.
just build your tribe and enjoy

[yoori]

last time i checked this forum people didnt want meaningfull pvp because this is not a pvp game.
just build your tribe and enjoy

Which forum was that? I think I haven't read that

[Dubanka]

this may be true to some extent but every FFA mmo in existence is mostly about the gank, the majority of players think PVP is all about killing everyone on sight regardless of lvl, age etc and those same people will usually camp those same areas and most of the time that area will be spawn points. dunno why i guess it makes their virtual "*****" larger. I'd bet maybe 25% of the xyson pop will do what i call honorable pvp. some of the same people posting on these forum inregard to pvp are already camping newb spawn points and griefing players. FFA pvp without safe areas only work for awhile until the majority of the playerbase quits and the game dies a slow death. there has to be a compromise, companies need to take a look at how eve online is set up and take notes, they've done it the way it should be IMO.

This is an open ffa pvp world.

If a tribe feels strongly enough about the 'noob situation'...hell, take control over a spawn point and advertise it as a gank free zone for new players to log in at. Enforce your will, don't cry about it.

That said, ganking unsuspecting noobs as they load into the game, perchance completely clueless about the game, controls, combat mechancis, etc. Is truly the lowest form of pvp out there...but it does amuse some folks.

but to the point. if you're a good 'Honor' tribe, do something about the situation...it's within your power to. The beauty of the sandbox is the players don't have to rely upon the devs, and code (which is typically imperfect and exploitable to one degree or another) to effect a solution to a problem. We can institute our own rules, and laws, to whatever degree we have the ability to spread our influence and enforce our will on others.

asking the devs to fix something that isn't broken is a dangerous thing...especially when we ahve the power to regulate the system ourselves (if we decide that is what we want to do).

[FabricSoftener]

This is an open ffa pvp world.

If a tribe feels strongly enough about the 'noob situation'...hell, take control over a spawn point and advertise it as a gank free zone for new players to log in at. Enforce your will, don't cry about it.

That said, ganking unsuspecting noobs as they load into the game, perchance completely clueless about the game, controls, combat mechancis, etc. Is truly the lowest form of pvp out there...but it does amuse some folks.

but to the point. if you're a good 'Honor' tribe, do something about the situation...it's within your power to. The beauty of the sandbox is the players don't have to rely upon the devs, and code (which is typically imperfect and exploitable to one degree or another) to effect a solution to a problem. We can institute our own rules, and laws, to whatever degree we have the ability to spread our influence and enforce our will on others.

asking the devs to fix something that isn't broken is a dangerous thing...especially when we ahve the power to regulate the system ourselves (if we decide that is what we want to do).

1. everyone keeps pointing out that this game is FFA pvp as if its the only feature despite the fact that the only real game mechanic in the game atm is crafting. its ironical!

2. even darkfall doesnt have ganking at noob location, its a bug (if people are being honest about what they are saying) and it will be fixed.

[Deacon]

In addition, consequences, which will be modified as necessary, will keep gankers at bay. They will get sick of things happening to them like returning to the totem every time they die. I'm sure there will be more things put in place. Jooky will not let this be over run by griefers


Well, this isnt really a punishment is it......I already noticed that mechanic being used as instant travel with loaded backpack of lootz...You do know jumping off cliffs can kill ya...animals dont loot ya....and friends can speed your trip home as well...with all the lootz in your bag to hide safely away.

[ifireallymust]

I'm not really worried about the gankers out in the world, except they're not too bright if they're slaughtering new players, unless they want an empty game world.

But what I'd love to see for pkers who kill in the territory of other tribes (after Prelude, and not counting tribes who declare war on each other) is permadeath the next time they are killed (with no way to alter that status), expulsion from their tribes and membership only in tribes of other killers subject to permadeath, and inability to trade any item or work or fight with anyone not also subject to permadeath. You might kill a hundred crafters and wipe out a dozen small tribes if you have a big enough tribe, but one death, from falling, animals, or another player, and your character is done. Reroll, starting items only, no access to that character's storage, and unless you have a tribe willing to help you out, not even a place to call home until you make one for yourself again.

I think being a pker under those circumstances would be fun, trying to see how long I could stay alive, but I'm betting the vast majority of 'hard core killers' in this game would overflow Lake Tahoe with tears if this were implemented, and it would cut way down on the number of predator players and tribes in the game.

[MrKrueak]

I am totally shocked to see you asking for severe punishments for a playstyle not your own.

Everytime a crafter fails a craft with my mats, I want them to have permadeath. How that be? It took me hours of collecting to get those mats and the crafter destroyed them! I have no recourse!

your analogy does not apply, if crafters fail a crafting attempt they perma lose your mats. crafting has nothing to do with ganking/griefing as a playstyle. If you are to play an evil type chracter there should be consequences, i don't think permadeath should be it but there should be some kind of mechanic that flags you as an outlaw and thus can only trade etc, with evil aligned tribes/players. something to that affect but permadeath is overboard IMO

[ifireallymust]

your analogy does not apply, if crafters fail a crafting attempt they perma lose your mats. crafting has nothing to do with ganking/griefing as a playstyle. If you are to play an evil type chracter there should be consequences, i don't think permadeath should be it but there should be some kind of mechanic that flags you as an outlaw and thus can only trade etc, with evil aligned tribes/players. something to that affect but permadeath is overboard IMO

It was only going to be for people determined to attack people inside the other people's tribal territory, too. Other than that, let the pkers roam free, slaughtering whatever hapless lumberjack, fisherman, or hunter they can find.

Edited to add: My god, that first sentence is killing me! More caffeine now!

Should say it would only apply to pkers who attack players they aren't at war with inside the players' territories. Oh well.

[Dubanka]

1. everyone keeps pointing out that this game is FFA pvp as if its the only feature despite the fact that the only real game mechanic in the game atm is crafting. its ironical!

2. even darkfall doesnt have ganking at noob location, its a bug (if people are being honest about what they are saying) and it will be fixed.

ironically, even tho the FFA part of my post was the least relevant portion of it, you sought to make it the most relevant! its ironical!

(the point of the post was players have the free will to enforce rules laws and norms in this environment...don't ask the devs to take it away)

[Grushenko]

It was only going to be for people determined to attack people inside the other people's tribal territory, too. Other than that, let the pkers roam free, slaughtering whatever hapless lumberjack, fisherman, or hunter they can find.


Well, as Fabric told in another topic let people fight in tribal zones by declaring war.
Il like the idea of permadeath. But permadeath vs mat loss... no way :/

[Haunt]

I love to PK, but I agree that fists should not do the same dmg as an axe.

[ifireallymust]

Well, as Fabric told in another topic let people fight in tribal zones by declaring war.
Il like the idea of permadeath. But permadeath vs mat loss... no way :/

Well, I didn't say it was 'fair' in the risk versus reward sense, you guys, but you have to admit, it is pretty 'hardcore'. And I did say I'd be tempted to go all evil pker just to see how long I could stay alive! ;)

Mostly I was trying to think of a way to keep the big zerg tribes from forming and keep the predator to prey ratio in proper balance.

[fflhktsn]

I love to PK, but I agree that fists should not do the same dmg as an axe.

fists are OP, they have a chance to stun and do decent damage, on top of the fact that i risk losing no weapon (ignoring the lame soulbound preorder weapons that never decay)

The drawback to evil intention pvp should be ONLY the fact that you draw recognition amongst your peers as such. Your living in a fantasy world if you think all the pvpers are going to be evil assholes and that none are going to take the role of PKK or player killer killer....the police force of the good are usualy the better pvpers, and the good aligned tribes will have more members, craft more goods and be seen more often. If your a notorious asshole pvpers, you will become known, people should refuse to trade good, give you refuge....sighting of you should be broadcasted in global (oh wait another benefit of global chat you say?) as to attract as many pkers to that guy as possible. Its should be the world against him.
Thats how things work in a sandbox, self regulating community. Its why if your a ganker you should be respectful of those you kill.

[Dubanka]

Well, I didn't say it was 'fair' in the risk versus reward sense, you guys, but you have to admit, it is pretty 'hardcore'. And I did say I'd be tempted to go all evil pker just to see how long I could stay alive! ;)

Mostly I was trying to think of a way to keep the big zerg tribes from forming and keep the predator to prey ratio in proper balance.

increasing penalty and risk beyond a certain level only increases the rate of zerg formation...too much penalty for losing and you make sure you don't fight unless you know you can win. too little penalty and you fight without care of losing, in many cases just to harass and annoy (ie. griefing). The losing penalty is about right, you lose your stuff, you come back at half life and energy.

[ifireallymust]

increasing penalty and risk beyond a certain level only increases the rate of zerg formation...too much penalty for losing and you make sure you don't fight unless you know you can win. too little penalty and you fight without care of losing, in many cases just to harass and annoy (ie. griefing). The losing penalty is about right, you lose your stuff, you come back at half life and energy.

Yeah, I was worried about the zerg issue, which is why I said if you are subject to permadeath, you can only fight beside/trade with/be in tribes with other permadeaths. But there are still probably ways to abuse a system like this. And we are talking about a penalty that matches the crime, since the killing of a Homestead/Tribe in their tribe lands and the destruction of their buildings and taking of their items strips them of everything except their skills, so the penalty for attempting it should be higher than the penalty for just killing some random lumberjack outside his tribe zone.

[Dubanka]

the penalty for attempting it should be higher than the penalty for just killing some random lumberjack outside his tribe zone.

it just creates an arms race. ooh big penalties.

ok guys, we're raiding ifi's camp tonight. yeah, it's him and a couple buddies. they are crafting fools...and i know that they always keep all their stuff on them. Yeah, just 3 of them. Why are we bring 10? well, just to make sure we don't get surprised by anything...that 50% stat loss for 72 hrs is a bitch.

the more your up the risk, the more we ensure there isn't any...

[ifireallymust]

it just creates an arms race. ooh big penalties.

ok guys, we're raiding ifi's camp tonight. yeah, it's him and a couple buddies. they are crafting fools...and i know that they always keep all their stuff on them. Yeah, just 3 of them. Why are we bring 10? well, just to make sure we don't get surprised by anything...that 50% stat loss for 72 hrs is a bitch.

the more your up the risk, the more we ensure there isn't any...

I see your point. But they're going to eliminate the risk with zerging as soon as they're able to anyway. Oh well, luckily, I don't get paid to come up with solutions, because I don't seem to be able to!

[Dubanka]

the zerg scenario is always a difficult animal to solve.

the best way to deal with it is to let the players manage it. This happens in a couple ways.

- tribes need to be conscious of the repurcussions of allowing a server to become a 2 sided contest. This sometimes means letting a neutral / friendly fight their own fight, '...uh dude, you got yourself into this mess, you're evenly matched with those folks...if they up the anty and bring in some more people we'll come in to even it up, but we're not going to help you zerg them...'

- the server needs to police itself...if a tribe starts becoming 'too big' well, steps need to be taken (by the server) to convince them to unbig.

we've played server police before, and while it generally isn't horribly enjoyable (you end up being kinda hated by all), our efforts, combined with others of like mind, kept a server vibrant for very long time...but this is there ar edifferent types of pks...and if the world is 'good enough' for folks to want to preserve their gaming environment, players will fight to do whats necessary to keep it alive and vibrant. Most of in the pvp community know exactly how to kill a server. we all know that killing the server is counter to anything other than short term enjoyment. It then stands to reason, that the majority of the pvp community is exactly in line with the pve community when it comes to maintaining a level of balance and fairness between pvp freedom to act and carebear freedom to be protected (how that occurs is of course up for debate). Because this promotes a long term healthy gaming environment.

We want the same things.

[fflhktsn]

If zerging is going to be the solution, why not get rid of any pk penalties and make some serious defenses that require more than just a zerg...

Perhaps some defenses should require a very skilled crafter and terraformer to destroy.

Perhaps the term "release the hounds" should be a common term to avoiding a zerg attack.

Theres got to be a way around it without stupid stat nerfs and pk sickness.

[Doc]

We want the same things.

Well, yah, you see, we want systems similar to those games where it actually worked, and you want systems similar to games that failed one after another.

Hoping that same systems that fail again and again will magically produce different outcomes is, well, crazy.

[FabricSoftener]

if you want to have war features or play parts of a game that is war focused then pretty much nearly by definition zergs are required. Not only do RTS games weigh heavly on maintaining and managing both population zerg and resource zergs its also most of human history related to war.

[Dubanka]

i think the game/combat dynamics will do a lot to keep zergs at bay...once ranged weaponry comes in, a well built, well located fortress will be very very difficult to take if defended by a competent group. current combat mechanics dont allow us to use terrain to much advantage, but with the advent of ranged systems...we'll get ourselves out of the stone age.

[ifireallymust]

the zerg scenario is always a difficult animal to solve.

the best way to deal with it is to let the players manage it. This happens in a couple ways.

- tribes need to be conscious of the repurcussions of allowing a server to become a 2 sided contest. This sometimes means letting a neutral / friendly fight their own fight, '...uh dude, you got yourself into this mess, you're evenly matched with those folks...if they up the anty and bring in some more people we'll come in to even it up, but we're not going to help you zerg them...'

- the server needs to police itself...if a tribe starts becoming 'too big' well, steps need to be taken (by the server) to convince them to unbig.

we've played server police before, and while it generally isn't horribly enjoyable (you end up being kinda hated by all), our efforts, combined with others of like mind, kept a server vibrant for very long time...but this is there ar edifferent types of pks...and if the world is 'good enough' for folks to want to preserve their gaming environment, players will fight to do whats necessary to keep it alive and vibrant. Most of in the pvp community know exactly how to kill a server. we all know that killing the server is counter to anything other than short term enjoyment. It then stands to reason, that the majority of the pvp community is exactly in line with the pve community when it comes to maintaining a level of balance and fairness between pvp freedom to act and carebear freedom to be protected (how that occurs is of course up for debate). Because this promotes a long term healthy gaming environment.

We want the same things.

I'm all for communities policing themselves, I've just never seen it work. The solution is always, "Join a guild!" "Oh, your little noob guild got destroyed? Okay, ally with a big guild!" As I said before, very static, very restrictive, and very boring. But a loose coalition of small tribes and solo players with enough time to prepare and with the right tools (such as the one fflhktsn mentioned) might be able to preserve a more diverse playstyle, I've just never seen it before.

[Dubanka]

Well, yah, you see, we want systems similar to those games where it actually worked

hello kitty online? crafting kitty ears?

what systems 'that worked' are you talking about?

[Dubanka]

I'm all for communities policing themselves, I've just never seen it work. The solution is always, "Join a guild!" "Oh, your little noob guild got destroyed? Okay, ally with a big guild!" As I said before, very static, very restrictive, and very boring. But a loose coalition of small tribes and solo players with enough time to prepare and with the right tools (such as the one fflhktsn mentioned) might be able to preserve a more diverse playstyle, I've just never seen it before.

it can work...not always perfectly...but it's definitely possible.

[Doc]

hello kitty online? crafting kitty ears?

what systems 'that worked' are you talking about?

EvE, Lineage, you know, games that actually work and people want to play, and, well, cant think of any others. Ye, both similar to Hello Kitty.

[Dubanka]

i'm actually all for an eve system..and i think it would work well here. relegate a very small portion of the world where players can build their cities to be safe zones. Leaving the conflict zones to take place over the resources in the world. you'd need to figure out how to get your loot back to your happy safey hidey hole, but once it's there it's safe to stare at it without fear.

Now lineage is a pos...so not sure why that's an example of anything positive.

[Doc]

i'm actually all for an eve system..and i think it would work well here. relegate a very small portion of the world where players can build their cities to be safe zones. Leaving the conflict zones to take place over the resources in the world. you'd need to figure out how to get your loot back to your happy safey hidey hole, but once it's there it's safe to stare at it without fear.

Ysh, it would work, quite well i might say.


Now lineage is a pos...so not sure why that's an example of anything positive.

Yah, PoS played by 1-3 million people. You cant really argue that it works and people want to play it. Opposed to some other games.

[jumpshot]

If a tribe feels strongly enough about the 'noob situation'...hell, take control over a spawn point and advertise it as a gank free zone for new players to log in at. Enforce your will, don't cry about it.



THIS THIS THIS THIS. It drives me crazy how in every PvP sandbox(ish) game people cry for Dev intervention. DO IT YOURSELF.

[Bridger]

I count nine starting points. Is the proposal that tribes will man all these points 24/7/365 with sufficient manpower to ensure that new arrivals in the game don't get ganked as their first experience of Xsyon?

[orious13]

I count nine starting points. Is the proposal that tribes will man all these points 24/7/365 with sufficient manpower to ensure that new arrivals in the game don't get ganked as their first experience of Xsyon?

Definitely not at the start of the game when things aren't built... MAYBE after a month or so if combat is touched up after a month, but definitely not before combat is fixed.

_____

A lot of people are relying on "IF/then" things. It's just as has been said. I have not seen community's actually do this. It actually a bit in-immersive when a community doesn't do this. I'd love it and I'd be part of it (later), but currently it hasn't been done to my knowledge. Regardless it was said that there should be way more good and neutral people than evil people due to consequences later. I either read that in the FAQ or on an interview.

You all have to realize that these things haven't been tweaked yet.

[Dubanka]

I count nine starting points. Is the proposal that tribes will man all these points 24/7/365 with sufficient manpower to ensure that new arrivals in the game don't get ganked as their first experience of Xsyon?

No, the League of Honor, C4r3Bears United, and Sheep with Bloody Fangs control 3 points.

They militantly enforce handholding within thier areas of influence, and any who desire to inflict harm upon others are swiftly dealt with.

On the Recruitment forum they have updated posts welcoming like minded noobs, please fee free to fill out their 500 page guild app, and enter the world at their controlled spawn point for assimilation into carebear nirvana.

Conversely, the L337zor Republic controls 1 spawn point, or at least has it in its area of influence. their application process...haha get into vent so we can hear your lame voice!!111 OK log in her...HAHA NOOB OF COURSE WE KILLED YOU hahalol111 now keep up and we migh tgive you ur stuff back fckin noob lol111'.

Different strokes for different folks.

Like with any game, if you fail to do any degree of research about what you're getting into...i mean it is an ffa game, it takes about 2 seconds to realize you are vlunerable as soon as you log in...so if you fail to make any preparations to ensure you have a decent time...well then that's your friggin fault, not the game's.

[Bridger]

Okay, so that's three 'safe' points, assuming that those three tribes can actually man those points with sufficient manpower 24/7. And you're sure they can? And you're sure those tribes will still all be in full operation with the requisite manpower to accomplish the task two or three months down the road. And you're sure that if for some reason they aren't, another tribe will altruistically step up and fill the gap.

Okay... Assuming all that...

I also see one starting point that pretty much assures a new player is going to have a very bad experience as their first experience. And you think this is a good design decision? In essence you're saying that if you're a new player and you pick that one spawn point the game is pretty much just going to throw you away. Frankly, I don't see that as a good design choice.

Now you further say that you shouldn't get into a game without doing some research. Fair enough. So let's say I'm a prospective new player and I'm doing that diligent research. And I see where it says, "Make sure you don't choose 'X' as your starting location because if you do you're going to get ganked. 'A', 'B' and 'C' are safe choices... provided the tribes who are guarding them have enough folks on-line to protect you when you log in at 03:20AM their time."

What do you think the great majority of prospective players are going to think to themselves when they read something like that? What kind of players will that 'select' for? Once again; do you think that kind of selection makes for a good design choice - given that the stated design goal is; 'rebuilding the world with PvP not the primary focus'?

[fflhktsn]

EvE system is terrible for this game. It does nothing to prepare the player for the eventuality of an unsafe pvp world. We dont need extended "safe forever" areas, it doesnt fit the lore.

I see no reason why the community just can self police, make a noob tribe at a spawn point, something that doesnt limit gameplay, and concentrate pvpers into one area.

If a pvp free area is created, its just going to create players who will be unable to compete with those who stayed in the pvp zones, further segmenting the community.

Its a small learning curve, once you learn how to properly prepare for an unsafe world it no longer becomes an issue. People are refusing to adapt and pretending they are in a safe pve enviroment, its why people are getting so angry over something as ridiculous as me killing them, not even taking anything. Its a video game folks, your gonna be OK.

[Grushenko]

EvE system is terrible for this game. It does nothing to prepare the player for the eventuality of an unsafe pvp world. We dont need extended "safe forever" areas, it doesnt fit the lore.

I see no reason why the community just can self police, make a noob tribe at a spawn point, something that doesnt limit gameplay, and concentrate pvpers into one area.

If a pvp free area is created, its just going to create players who will be unable to compete with those who stayed in the pvp zones, further segmenting the community.

Its a small learning curve, once you learn how to properly prepare for an unsafe world it no longer becomes an issue. People are refusing to adapt and pretending they are in a safe pve enviroment, its why people are getting so angry over something as ridiculous as me killing them, not even taking anything. Its a video game folks, your gonna be OK.

I can agree. But what's wrong on leave the current ruleset on pvp along the edge of the lake and use it as starting "soft" zone? Open pvp, safe tribal zones and non seigeable main totem.

[Koll]

In addition, consequences, which will be modified as necessary, will keep gankers at bay. They will get sick of things happening to them like returning to the totem every time they die. I'm sure there will be more things put in place. Jooky will not let this be over run by griefers

waddabout stats loss to "red" pkers ?

[BigCountry]

waddabout stats loss to "red" pkers ?

Um No.

[Bridger]

EvE system is terrible for this game. It does nothing to prepare the player for the eventuality of an unsafe pvp world.

Which explains why EVE is such an unmitigated failure.

Or not.


We dont need extended "safe forever" areas, it doesnt fit the lore.

So make it fit the lore. 'The gods have decreed this to be a place of peace - each god reluctantly agreeing that in exchange for the safe entry of their eventual adherents, potential adherents of their rivals can also be granted safe entry.' (The product of about 2 minutes of thought. I'd bet something even better could be crafted with a little more thought and effort by more creative minds than mine.)


I see no reason why the community just can self police, make a noob tribe at a spawn point, something that doesnt limit gameplay, and concentrate pvpers into one area.

I believe I've pointed out several practical problems with self-policing. But if you have solutions, by all means let's hear 'em.


If a pvp free area is created, its just going to create players who will be unable to compete with those who stayed in the pvp zones, further segmenting the community.

Or, you could make the starting area safe and once again the playing field is level - with the added benefit that new arrivals don't get ganked and stripped every time they roll up a new character and try to get into the game.


Its a small learning curve, once you learn how to properly prepare for an unsafe world it no longer becomes an issue.

How do I learn to properly prepare for an unsafe world when the first thing that happens to me is I get pounced upon by half a dozen naked gankers who rob me of all the tools I need to learn to use? The only 'small learning curve' that's going to create is, 'To hell with this [expletive] game! I want my money back!'


People are refusing to adapt and pretending they are in a safe pve enviroment, its why people are getting so angry over something as ridiculous as me killing them, not even taking anything. Its a video game folks, your gonna be OK.

Yeah... Some folks are just so damn thin-skinned! Imagine complaining about paying $50 and then a monthly subscription fee for the privilege of stepping into a game they haven't even begun to master only to be pounced on by you and your naked friends! Why, they ought to be honored!

In the end, it becomes more and more clear to me why the developers' decision to make the entry points a safe area is the right one - just like every successful MMO designer before them has done.

[fflhktsn]

So you think that if xyson has permanat safe zones that the game will be as successful as eve.....PLEASE...

What worked for a space based sandbox isnt going to work for a tibal warfare, terraforming, apocolypic game.

The sooner you learn to adapt to the enviroment the sooner you can enjoy it, creating pema safezones only concentrates pvpers into the non safe, and keeps everyone else in the perma safe zones...just like eve.

We dont need to be segmenting this community, there are not hundreds of thousands of players on one server...like eve

Get these people who chose to play a ffa full loot pvp game and pretend its a safe pve game, aquainted with how to properly minimize loss and risk and things wont be so bad.

I know you and others want nothing more than this to be some sort of arena consentual pvp game, its crazy the thought of someone so fearful of losing pixels would join a game like this....

Adapt, its not so hard...

But yeah, those who hoped they could sit there, with chat off, and enjoy a solo sim/real life game in peace are probably in for a rude awakening.

Perhaps its time for something diffrent, mabey its time for a sandbox to really be unique and not follow in other games footsteps.

We dont need an eve like system, we dont need a darkfall like system, we need a xsyon type system. Real risk, saftey in numbers, no where that is 100% safe...just like a real post apocolyptic world with good and evil.

[orious13]

Later on certain presumably GOOD or/and neutral towns will be able to choose their settlements as spawn points. This would pretty much remedy a lot of the current starting area problems.

Policing won't work on game launch. Combat isn't finished and everyone is going to be building their character and town. After towns are built I see good/neutral players fighting back any type of ganker/griefer. It really makes little sense to play right now if all you want is combat and pvp. Unless you want to practice active dodges and blocks.

As was said before... the consequences for being evil will be quite a bit harsher than good/neutral. Will.. be... later...

[Doc]

EvE system is terrible for this game. It does nothing to prepare the player for the eventuality of an unsafe pvp world. We dont need extended "safe forever" areas, it doesnt fit the lore.

No, its great system for this game. Lore? Which part of the lore it doesnt fit, like old gods emerging and players getting magic part? lets see, Gods have chosen to protect few areas of the world, see, it fits the lore perfectly.


I see no reason why the community just can self police, make a noob tribe at a spawn point, something that doesnt limit gameplay, and concentrate pvpers into one area.

All failed games that "rely on self police" aint enough? We need 1 more to add to that list?


If a pvp free area is created, its just going to create players who will be unable to compete with those who stayed in the pvp zones, further segmenting the community.

Its choice that player(s) make. You make your choice and someone else will make another choice.


Its a small learning curve, once you learn how to properly prepare for an unsafe world it no longer becomes an issue. People are refusing to adapt and pretending they are in a safe pve enviroment, its why people are getting so angry over something as ridiculous as me killing them, not even taking anything. Its a video game folks, your gonna be OK.

So, everyone must adapt to how you play the game, and they are refusing to adapt to your way? So whats the problem, you dont seem to have adaptability problem, why dont you adapt to how they play the game, cause "Its a video game folks, your gonna be OK.". lol


waddabout stats loss to "red" pkers ?

Nah, you know, they want their griefing/ganking with 0 risk.

[fflhktsn]

There should be no choice, its should just be...

Why do you and the few other pve players fear so much?

When you offer a choice between saftey and risk, no one chooses the risk, that is the issue at hand.

[Doc]

There should be no choice, its should just be...

Why do you and the few other pve players fear so much?

When you offer a choice between saftey and risk, no one chooses the risk, that is the issue at hand.

PvE player? Get real. You want a game to succeede - dont screw your game in the start cause few gankers cant adopt to the ruleset. Really funny you talking how other people cant adopt to something, its hilarious i must admit.

EvE offers plenty of choice, and thats one part why its so successful and constantly growing. And yah, theres plenty of people taking the risk of living in low sec-0.0 space.

[Bridger]

So you think that if xyson has permanent safe zones that the game will be as successful as eve.....PLEASE...

What worked for a space based sandbox isnt going to work for a tibal warfare, terraforming, apocolypic game.

Why not?

Because you say it won't?

What's the difference between the fundamental mechanics of EVE and Xsyon?

At its core; EVE is about exploiting resources and converting them into the tools you need to expand and gain more resources so you can build better tools and expand... etc.

Xsyon differs from the; 'Exploit resources so you can build the tools you need to expand so as to exploit more resources so you can build better tools and expand...' How?

It's just that in Xsyon, that 'expand and build' paradigm is called 'rebuilding civilization.'

[Dubanka]

Okay, so that's three 'safe' points, assuming that those three tribes can actually man those points with sufficient manpower 24/7. And you're sure they can? And you're sure those tribes will still all be in full operation with the requisite manpower to accomplish the task two or three months down the road. And you're sure that if for some reason they aren't, another tribe will altruistically step up and fill the gap.

Okay... Assuming all that...

I also see one starting point that pretty much assures a new player is going to have a very bad experience as their first experience. And you think this is a good design decision? In essence you're saying that if you're a new player and you pick that one spawn point the game is pretty much just going to throw you away. Frankly, I don't see that as a good design choice.

Now you further say that you shouldn't get into a game without doing some research. Fair enough. So let's say I'm a prospective new player and I'm doing that diligent research. And I see where it says, "Make sure you don't choose 'X' as your starting location because if you do you're going to get ganked. 'A', 'B' and 'C' are safe choices... provided the tribes who are guarding them have enough folks on-line to protect you when you log in at 03:20AM their time."

What do you think the great majority of prospective players are going to think to themselves when they read something like that? What kind of players will that 'select' for? Once again; do you think that kind of selection makes for a good design choice - given that the stated design goal is; 'rebuilding the world with PvP not the primary focus'?

I'm sorry, but in any type of 'open' game...you have to have friends. You have to have people to watch your back. Heck, you need friends to full appreciate the intricacies of the game without burnign out on it. IN any game of htis time it helps to be part of a group. If log in point camping is a really big deal...said group will come in, take over the area while you load up, and escort you back to their area of control.

It's not really that complicated. Just the burden of protection is on the player. It's an open world. It's not a theme park guided tour. That is what makes it exciting.

I don't particularly like getting ganked 5 v 1 and losing all my stuff.
I don't particularly like having to listen to some prepubescent moron try to string curse words together because mommy and daddy are in bed.

I DO like being able to get some payback.
I DO like being able to make people back up their words with action.

Freedom of action > all.

If you don't like what someone is doing...DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. YOu don't have to wait for devs to make some gameplay changes because johny is macrokilling all the uber mob critters. JUST KILL HIM AND TAKE THE SPOT. So much simpler.

[orious13]

There should be no choice, its should just be...

Why do you and the few other pve players fear so much?

When you offer a choice between saftey and risk, no one chooses the risk, that is the issue at hand.

I doubt you're going to get your game...it's really that simple.

There are some factors of immersion and real life simulation that don't work in a video game. Over the years I actually kept trying to propose and say the same thing you just said "there should be no choice, it should just be...".

I agree with that, but then you must grow to realize the problem is that people play games LIKE a game regardless if it's realistic or not. If you added everything how it should be, it won't be played how it "should be". If you added things so that the game resembled an amazing alternate reality complete with all of its freedoms and morals, it won't be played like that reality.

So far they have legitimate compromises planned.

[fflhktsn]

I doubt you're going to get your game...it's really that simple.

There are some factors of immersion and real life simulation that don't work in a video game. Over the years I actually kept trying to propose and say the same thing you just said "there should be no choice, it should just be...".

I agree with that, but then you must grow to realize the problem is that people play games LIKE a game regardless if it's realistic or not. If you added everything how it should be, it won't be played how it "should be". If you added things so that the game resembled an amazing alternate reality complete with all of its freedoms and morals, it won't be played like that reality.


Are we going to get a pvp sandbox with lots of sand and no safe zones....probably not with this game.

Its too risky, its uncharted waters, and its going to take a developer with some serious balls to really go against the grain.

A lot of the origional followers of this game are hardcore pve'ers, this game will cater to them. The largest and longest standing tribe is a carebear tribe, the game will cater to them.

Will it offer the pvp option, sure, but it wont be a totally uniqe (other than the terraforming) sandbox, and theres already a lot of rules that take away from the freedom your suppose to get in a sandbox.

Im not looking for realism, i get that in real life. Im looking for a sandbox with basically no rules, not a sandbox patrolled by police officers, seperating the sandbox into areas where i can throw sand and areas where i can make sand castles in peace...with the ability to play wiht my sand behind privacy curtains shelterd from the rest of the players.

However the games in development, all i can do is voice my opinion, just like everyone else.

One day someone will make a game like this, without the main focus as combat, but with no rules and no saftey. Just like in game however, its always the safe route that people take. The safe route is to not upset the big tribe and not to upset the long time followers who just want to play nice and sperated from those who want somewhat of a rule free game.

Thats just how these things go..

However i think this game would make some pretty big waves if it broke the mold and offerd the no rules pvp, just as long as it ran stable and was somewhat bug free....lot of people are looking for that type of game and it would have no competition.

Ill stick with the game, see how it goes, but i stopped getting my hopes up long long ago over these things. Darkfall was close, but all it has was combat and not much else that matterd. Also the magic was lame, we dont need magic.

[orious13]

~snipped~

Good :).

Keep voicing.

I'm sure there will be a lot of satisfying things for many play types. Just good that you understand both sides not just from a player stand point but also from a development stand point. And if the current development strategy (whatever it may be) is a huge hit (I think they are taking the best of both worlds), they might allow different servers with different rule sets to appease a more niche of the niche.

[Dubanka]

*shrug*
i think the current environment is pretty open.
it will be interesting to see how tribal warfare is implemented.

honestly there needs to be some 'penalty' for being evil...the challenge is to make it not so brutal that you lose that element of the game.

it's also difficult to balance reality right now with what the game will 'be'. Do you really balance the 'end game' off of what currently passes as noob gank pvp? That would be incredibly stupid.

I'm going to go out on a limb and wager that death will mean a lot more when gear loss is a bit more painful than some grass pants and a sweet rice patty hat.

THe mechanics are just off putting right now because the naked gank squad has just as much power as the uber organized super craft guild. I'm sure thats frustrating.

IN the end, the pvp focused guilds willhave to be JUST as craft focused as teh craftees in order ot be competetive in the arms escalation...especially considering that a fair portion of the pvp's will actually be on the good side...we typically tend to allign ourselves where we get a fight...if thats attacking the sheep? great. If that's protecting the sheep? great. Just give us a fight.

so...arguments bred out of noob frustration and boredom...without a lot of basis in reality because we don't really know what that is yet.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

It's not really anyone's responsibility to patrol noob spawns. IF a few community minded tribes take it upon themselves to bring some order to the chaos that is on them. They are by no means required to save anyone at anytime. So if you want 24 hour protected noob zones then you are playing the wrong game. What you can do is not be an idiot. Don't bring anything with you EVER that you cannot stand to lose. If you're so attached to sprites and pixels though because they represent your "time" then your time probably isn't worth much anyway, and you should get out of your mom's basement for a few hours and enjoy real life.

[fflhktsn]

PVP penalties is a terrible idea.

Is the idea behind this to nerf pvp players so that a crafter can fight back better? Why even offer the sandbox option of rolling a combat character?

Our penalty is that we cant craft. You dont want to limit who is evil and who isnt, frankly it should be a surprise. I dont want a red "hey kill me" flag over my head. If you punish those who choose evil your not going to have anyone to war against come the tribal warfare. Evils punishment should be based on how the community interacts with known evil tibes and tribe members.

Why must i be punished for choosing not to safely craft in the confines of my safe zone? Hell i should be rewarded for taking the bigger risk, but thats not my stlye and would be just as awful of an idea.

Its post apocolypse, i have no idea who that guy on the horizon is, what his intentions are, who he is aligned with. I like the suspense in that, i like the unknown. Marking him with a red flag...ok i know what to do now. Marking him based on alignment...ok i know what to do now...leave him as is...all options are on the table untill i get close enough to know that he is either friend or foe...to me that is a thrill.

[Haunt]

THIS THIS THIS THIS. It drives me crazy how in every PvP sandbox(ish) game people cry for Dev intervention. DO IT YOURSELF.

BRAVO

[dxwarlock]

PVP penalties is a terrible idea.

Our penalty is that we cant craft. You dont want to limit who is evil and who isnt, frankly it should be a surprise. I dont want a red "hey kill me" flag over my head. If you punish those who choose evil your not going to have anyone to war against come the tribal warfare. Evils punishment should be based on how the community interacts with known evil tibes and tribe members.

Why must i be punished for choosing not to safely craft in the confines of my safe zone?

because the consequences that usually go with it aren't applicable ingame..
no possiblity of jail time,
no possibility of having to decide "if I attack this guy he may kill me" like real life..there is no "oh well he kicked my ass, wait for respawn" in real life.
no possibility of being a true "outcast" thats not welcome in towns, ran off by the sherrifs, trying to hide in caves to stop from being caught.

think about it, if the decision to be a killer in game was as real in real life..probably 90% of PvP wouldnt PvP.

so real life consequences of being a "murderer" and ingame are different..the scripting in the game has to some how account for the 'hardships and downside" of being one.

EVERYTHING needs plus and minuses, up and downs, good and bad.
the good: you dont need to gather, craft,horde, haggle for items..you steal from from your kills.

the bad: you get marked as evil..only the game is introducing a mechanic that it needs to emulate the part of being evil in real life..

EvE, one of the biggest PvP MMO's out now does it very well..your sec status goes down the more you kill..the less welcome you are in empire.

you have to remember people come and go in game..there is no effect like real life that keeps people as "known criminals".
like the wild west and billy the kid..EVERYONE knew who he was..and he actually did have a "hey kill me" flag over his head. any town he went into they knew who he was, and he was hunted.

here with the lower graphics and LOD of the game vs real life.., we cant really 'identify' you like you can spot someone in real life. we need a mechanic to know your one of the ones everyones looking out for.

[Doc]

*shrug*
i think the current environment is pretty open.

It is very open, in fact it provides lots of opportunities for PvP


it will be interesting to see how tribal warfare is implemented.

Thats what i personally am most interested in.


honestly there needs to be some 'penalty' for being evil...the challenge is to make it not so brutal that you lose that element of the game.

Absolutely. And, no, returning to your totem when you die is not penalty.


it's also difficult to balance reality right now with what the game will 'be'. Do you really balance the 'end game' off of what currently passes as noob gank pvp? That would be incredibly stupid.

There are lots of unknowns, and before those become "knowns" its not really debatable.


I'm going to go out on a limb and wager that death will mean a lot more when gear loss is a bit more painful than some grass pants and a sweet rice patty hat.

Certanly. Although i dont think decent equipement is so hard to craft (it shouldnt be really)


THe mechanics are just off putting right now because the naked gank squad has just as much power as the uber organized super craft guild. I'm sure thats frustrating.

That will cease to be true shortly after launch.


IN the end, the pvp focused guilds willhave to be JUST as craft focused as teh craftees in order ot be competetive in the arms escalation...especially considering that a fair portion of the pvp's will actually be on the good side...we typically tend to allign ourselves where we get a fight...if thats attacking the sheep? great. If that's protecting the sheep? great. Just give us a fight.

Well, there will be planty of sheep and wolves around.


so...arguments bred out of noob frustration and boredom...without a lot of basis in reality because we don't really know what that is yet.

We dont know, but smart thing to do is smart thing to do. Its their game after all and ultimately their decision in what direction it goes. I dont want it to fail with such potential, and thats why i write what i write.

[Haunt]

If the world does ever end and some of you carebears actually survive, good luck with that. "Uhm sir, we are in a safe zone, see that stick over their, that show that I am a part of this tribe and therefore you cannot kill me, but actually I can kill you."

You guys are unbelievable. You want to have a Post-Apocalyptic game in a land where there is no strife between players and tribes? Seriously? The quote below from some flapjack above puts the cherry on the sundae.

"So make it fit the lore. 'The gods have decreed this to be a place of peace - each god reluctantly agreeing that in exchange for the safe entry of their eventual adherents, potential adherents of their rivals can also be granted safe entry.'"

[BigCountry]

...you should get out of your mom's basement for a few hours and enjoy real life.

http://www.cryptostudios.com/Todd/SB/TLK.jpg

An ole' Shadowbane sig I dug up....your comment sparked it...:D

Someone brought up Darkfall, what hurt that game the most was no skill cap. Everyone is the same. Everyone grinds the same skills. You go melee, they go melee. You cast, they start casting. It's why I left, I could not keep up with macroing the magic. That's the one thing they really missed the mark on. There must be a skill cap.

[fflhktsn]

PvE player? Get real. You want a game to succeede - dont screw your game in the start cause few gankers cant adopt to the ruleset. Really funny you talking how other people cant adopt to something, its hilarious i must admit.

EvE offers plenty of choice, and thats one part why its so successful and constantly growing. And yah, theres plenty of people taking the risk of living in low sec-0.0 space.

Im not seeing the people who send me whispers full of curses and insults as adApting, i see it in their inventory, loaded with rare loot and tools.... mabey they would be so angry over losing their prescious loot if they had sprinted back to their basket and unloaded upon finding the loot...mabey they wouldnt be so mad if they had a friend patoling the area, if not just to give a heads up that some unknown is approaching.

A majority of the people i gank freak out like its the end of the world, most of the time they lose nothing in the process, its so silly how they can get all worked up over losing nothing in a damn video game... so no they are not adapting to the system. They are ignoring it, and instead come here and cry for more protections and more saftey, so they continue to ignore the ffa full loot pvp.

Eve is a terrible game for those who didnt start years ago, has so many more players than this game, and has a completely diffrent style and layout. You cant compare the two just bucause they both offer resources and are sandboxes, as someone who played eve, i know an elitest eve snob when i see one, one of the reasons i left, also the safe zones provided an area where those who stayed were weaker and at a disadvantage and needed a lot of hand holding to really experience the whole game. Also i think eve stopped growing a while ago, all you see are multi accounts growing. Theyve been masterful at retaining their community, however with a time based progression system not present in this game, its easy to see the reward in staying.

Im not even sure why im responding to a hopi troll...not sure your tribe leader is aware of the reputation your giving his tribe.

[Doc]

Im not seeing the people who send me whispers full of curses and insults as adApting, i see it in their inventory, loaded with rare loot and tools.... mabey they would be so angry over losing their prescious loot if they had sprinted back to their basket and unloaded upon finding the loot...mabey they wouldnt be so mad if they had a friend patoling the area, if not just to give a heads up that some unknown is approaching.

A majority of the people i gank freak out like its the end of the world, most of the time they lose nothing in the process, its so silly how they can get all worked up over losing nothing in a damn video game... so no they are not adapting to the system. They are ignoring it, and instead come here and cry for more protections and more saftey, so they continue to ignore the ffa full loot pvp.

Eve is a terrible game for those who didnt start years ago, has so many more players than this game, and has a completely diffrent style and layout. You cant compare the two just bucause they both offer resources and are sandboxes, as someone who played eve, i know an elitest eve snob when i see one, one of the reasons i left, also the safe zones provided an area where those who stayed were weaker and at a disadvantage and needed a lot of hand holding to really experience the whole game. Also i think eve stopped growing a while ago, all you see are multi accounts growing. Theyve been masterful at retaining their community, however with a time based progression system not present in this game, its easy to see the reward in staying.

Im not even sure why im responding to a hopi troll...not sure your tribe leader is aware of the reputation your giving his tribe.

Sorry, you are just trolling now.

First im hardcore PvEer, now im eve elitist snob...whats next.

Where has anyone asked for any protection outside small safe zone?

Again you mention adaptability. Well you dont adapt either, that kinda makes you equal.

Dont respond with trolling.

[Bridger]

Speaking as 'the flapjack' who made that comment, may I simply point out it was offered as a potential, 'lore friendly' justification for making the initial game entry points safe zones.

Not the whole game.

[Doc]

Well, im getting more and more convinced that "Chaos server" should be setup, with absolutey no rules - total freedom for the players:

- kill anyone, anywhere, anytime with 0 consequences
- terraform anywhere you want
- all containers are set to public
- pretty loose grief rules that only go to RL limit - racism and such
- destroy any totem anytime you want
- buildings can be destroyed anywhere, anytime

And let playerbase police themselves, absolutely no rules. no dev interventions. no protections of any kind. no restrictions.

[esudar]

If the world does ever end and some of you carebears actually survive, good luck with that. "Uhm sir, we are in a safe zone, see that stick over their, that show that I am a part of this tribe and therefore you cannot kill me, but actually I can kill you."

You guys are unbelievable. You want to have a Post-Apocalyptic game in a land where there is no strife between players and tribes? Seriously? The quote below from some flapjack above puts the cherry on the sundae.

"So make it fit the lore. 'The gods have decreed this to be a place of peace - each god reluctantly agreeing that in exchange for the safe entry of their eventual adherents, potential adherents of their rivals can also be granted safe entry.'"

thanks, well done.

... and im getting more and more convinced that members of a specific tribe should lower their voice a bit if you want more than 100 people to play this game

[Doc]

thanks, well done.

... and im getting more and more convinced that members of a specific tribe should lower their voice a bit if you want more than 100 people to play this game

Why?

[Zenmaster13]

If the world does ever end and some of you carebears actually survive, good luck with that. "Uhm sir, we are in a safe zone, see that stick over their, that show that I am a part of this tribe and therefore you cannot kill me, but actually I can kill you."

You guys are unbelievable. You want to have a Post-Apocalyptic game in a land where there is no strife between players and tribes? Seriously? The quote below from some flapjack above puts the cherry on the sundae.

"So make it fit the lore. 'The gods have decreed this to be a place of peace - each god reluctantly agreeing that in exchange for the safe entry of their eventual adherents, potential adherents of their rivals can also be granted safe entry.'"

Hahaha, you must be real dark and bad ass behind that computer screen. If the apoc happens, people like you will be the first to be eaten. If you want reality, stop playing games. Trying to be dark and evil in a computer game does not equate to real life. Seriously, grow up. Do you honestly think, if you gank grief someone in a computer game, they are looking at you like you are some tough guy? They just see you as some childish moron. No one respects these people, except people like them. Here is some news for you. You are in the minority.

Any Ganker or Griefer who does not want severe consequences for there weak ass actions, is by definition a care bear. If any ganker is against being flagged for perma-death, they are the opposite of hardcore. Man you griefers have no valid arguements at all. All you ever do is blanket non-gankers as carebears, or haveing the dev team in thier back pocket. Funny, funny stuff.

[Mystais]

Well, im getting more and more convinced that "Chaos server" should be setup, with absolutey no rules - total freedom for the players:

- kill anyone, anywhere, anytime with 0 consequences
- terraform anywhere you want
- all containers are set to public
- pretty loose grief rules that only go to RL limit - racism and such
- destroy any totem anytime you want
- buildings can be destroyed anywhere, anytime

And let playerbase police themselves, absolutely no rules. no dev interventions. no protections of any kind. no restrictions.


You do realize no one would ever craft or build on such a server. With only one character per account, I doubt anyone would even create a crafter/builder character. No one can be on 24/7 to defend their things so it devolves into all characters setup for pvp with no totems/structures placed anywhere, such fun.

[Doc]

You do realize no one would ever craft or build on such a server. I doubt anyone would even create a crafter/builder character. No one can be on 24/7 to defend their things so it devolves into all characters setup for pvp with no totems/structures placed anywhere.

Well, they ask for it, and claim its just a matter of "players policeing themselves". Its sandbox nirvana they claim. I say let them at it and leave normal Xsyon server alone :)

[outfctrl]

You do realize no one would ever craft or build on such a server. With only one character per account, I doubt anyone would even create a crafter/builder character. No one can be on 24/7 to defend their things so it devolves into all characters setup for pvp with no totems/structures placed anywhere, such fun.

You can call the zone...... Quake Zone ;-)

[Asmodeous]

There are few things I find more amusing than gamers pretending they're game designers.

[Dubanka]

Well, they ask for it, and claim its just a matter of "players policeing themselves". Its sandbox nirvana they claim. I say let them at it and leave normal Xsyon server alone :)

The 'normal' server involves full freedom action to include agression against your fellow toon.

The 'normal' server is stated to have save zones removed after prelude...and one would assume when there is the ability to secure you pixels from the big bad wolf.

SO i'm cool with the 'normal' server. Cya round.

[iraclear]

Just one more PVP whine and I swear I'll loose it and pwn them nubz.

[magnulun]

Just one more PVP whine and I swear I'll loose it and pwn them nubz.

lol :)

[Dubanka]

Just one more PVP whine and I swear I'll loose it and pwn them nubz.

now that's the spirit!

[furanku]

Just one more PVP whine and I swear I'll loose it and pwn them nubz.

I AM FURANKU, AND YOU KILLED MY MOTHER! I SHALL HAVETH REVENGE BITCHA

[Evito]

Well the comfort stat could really change some grievance about naked gankers, run naked and your comfort gets really low which affects your stats and especially damage you can cause etc.
Have people freeze to death during winter if they dont wear clothes etc. See how long they run ganking naked. Fists will obviously get nerfed so worrying about that is something i wont do.

[orious13]

Well the comfort stat could really change some grievance about naked gankers, run naked and your comfort gets really low which affects your stats and especially damage you can cause etc.
Have people freeze to death during winter if they dont wear clothes etc. See how long they run ganking naked. Fists will obviously get nerfed so worrying about that is something i wont do.

good point. Forget all about the possible comfort.

[Bruise187]

your analogy does not apply, if crafters fail a crafting attempt they perma lose your mats. crafting has nothing to do with ganking/griefing as a playstyle. If you are to play an evil type chracter there should be consequences, i don't think permadeath should be it but there should be some kind of mechanic that flags you as an outlaw and thus can only trade etc, with evil aligned tribes/players. something to that affect but permadeath is overboard IMO A lot of people have died crafting. all kinds of accidents happen in the work place where people die. So ya. if i get perma death for ganking griefing then you need to havea chance of dieing while crafing or building/ those logs look heavy and would crush your whiny skull. So that sounds about right. make it happen

[fflhktsn]

The extent that some go though, to limit peoples game play (should they choose pvp lets say) is amazing to me. In the same breath that the crafters say "dont force your pvp on me" they sugges nerf mechanics for those who dont choose to go their rout. Hypocritical at best.

The pvp crowd wants a sandbox, player enforced rules, no game mechanisms to replace player induced law. we also want the game to be fair, i dont want the game system to treat me diffrently because i chose the high risk route, and choose to spend my time outside of safezones looking for trouble.

if you choose to nerf evil players stats, or do something as stupid as perma death....rest assured pvpers wont be the one getting killed....we will just be foreced to travel in undefeatable zergs....we tend to use sandbox law to counter and restrictive game systems. i dont want this. fair is fair, if a crafter can camp inside a safezone, safely gathering mats, safely crafting, and not losing stats realted to their profession in the process, a person who chooses (we have the right to choose how we play correct?) the higher risk route shouldnt be penalized for doing so.

i thought we all wanted a sandbox here...why are we discussing how one route of gameplay should be limited?

we already have tribe members breaking off, setting up homestead safezones, gathering mats, returning to the tribe and crafting....is this what you want?

artificial safe zones, nerfing players choices in game play, punishing people for choosing a certain route....its all such horrible ideas in what was suppose to be a sandbox.

Just remember...ganking has NEVER been an issue in game, its nothing like DF, MO or SB. This game is diffrent already...why are we even discussing nerfing the sandbox to prevent a problem that never has existed?

[FabricSoftener]

..i dont want the game system to treat me diffrently because i chose the high risk route...



that makes zero sense, it wouldnt be high risk then would it?

[fflhktsn]

The extent that some go though, to limit peoples game play (should they choose pvp lets say) is amazing to me. In the same breath that the crafters say "dont force your pvp on me" they sugges nerf mechanics for those who dont choose to go their rout. Hypocritical at best.

The pvp crowd wants a sandbox, player enforced rules, no game mechanisms to replace player induced law. we also want the game to be fair, i dont want the game system to treat me diffrently because i chose the high risk route, and choose to spend my time outside of safezones looking for trouble.

if you choose to nerf evil players stats, or do something as stupid as perma death....rest assured pvpers wont be the one getting killed....we will just be foreced to travel in undefeatable zergs....we tend to use sandbox law to counter and restrictive game systems. i dont want this. fair is fair, if a crafter can camp inside a safezone, safely gathering mats, safely crafting, and not losing stats realted to their profession in the process, a person who chooses (we have the right to choose how we play correct?) the higher risk route shouldnt be penalized for doing so.

i thought we all wanted a sandbox here...why are we discussing how one route of gameplay should be limited?

we already have tribe members breaking off, setting up homestead safezones, gathering mats, returning to the tribe and crafting....is this what you want?

artificial safe zones, nerfing players choices in game play, punishing people for choosing a certain route....its all such horrible ideas in what was suppose to be a sandbox.

Just remember...ganking has NEVER been an issue in game, its nothing like DF, MO or SB. This game is diffrent already...why are we even discussing nerfing the sandbox to prevent a problem that never has existed?

re read fabric, it will set in.

[MrKrueak]

A lot of people have died crafting. all kinds of accidents happen in the work place where people die. So ya. if i get perma death for ganking griefing then you need to havea chance of dieing while crafing or building/ those logs look heavy and would crush your whiny skull. So that sounds about right. make it happen

these arguements just get more idiotic as time goes by. No point in really going on about it anymore, the game will be how the devs want it to be, no point in trolling/flaming about it anymore as it isn't worth it in the end.