Some Clarification

[KeithStone]

The main discussion seems to be regarding safe zones. Some players are imagining 'safe switches' that can be turned on and off. That's not part of any plan.


I am considering allowing tribes that want to war sooner than others to remove their safe zone if they so desire. A separate zone (as the mist clears) or server with no safe zones at all is also under consideration depending on the world's population.


My goal is not to impose new limits as solutions but to give more choices.

I understand clearly now, thanks! :)

After reading this I don't feel like there needs to be a seperate server, but that's up to the rest of the community to decide.

[blackzilla]

I'm not exactly clear on it all so we will just have to wait until they have more time to clear things up for us.

What part? It is all clear as mud to moi, english is my native tongue however...

[Honelith]

There's definately a bit of confusion about all this.

[Kurpitsa]

In Prelude, people have safe zones. They can turn them off. After Prelude, they will all be turned off. That's how I understand the current plan, but nothing is written on stone.

That's what I love about this game. Transparent developers that give out these updates.

[blackzilla]

In Prelude, people have safe zones. They can turn them off. After Prelude, they will all be turned off. That's how I understand the current plan, but nothing is written on stone.

That's what I love about this game. Transparent developers that give out these updates.

Wholey shit someone else that can read and understand what was said, I'm floored.

[Mims44]

In Prelude, people have safe zones. They can turn them off. After Prelude, they will all be turned off. That's how I understand the current plan, but nothing is written on stone.

That's what I love about this game. Transparent developers that give out these updates.

That's what I got from it. No offense but I don't see how his statement would confuse anyone, he's not speaking in riddles.

[KeithStone]

What part? It is all clear as mud to moi, english is my native tongue however...

i edited my OP.

[yoori]

From what Jooky said in previous posts and interviews, FFA PvP is there as a flavour, to give some thrill, but main source of PvP will be TvT wars.

I think that after or later in prelude tribes that want to allow FFA on their territory, will be able to turn safezones off, others will stay with safezones unless in war.

Game mechanics are supposed to be very harsh for FFA PvP.

[Honelith]

Wholey shit someone else that can read and understand what was said, I'm floored.


No offense but I don't see how his statement would confuse anyone, he's not speaking in riddles.

Hardly rocket science. What PVP will be and how it's going to be handled will have many ramifications in the gameworld and I'd love the devs to write up their game vision for PVP that will cater to both PVPers and PVEers as there is alot of confusion about how this will work.

I like the idea of there being PVP zones like you see in Perpetuum, the central islands had no PVP but the outter islands had full loot PVP so that it catered to both sets of players.

[Vadio]

Nice

[BigCountry]

My goal is not to impose new limits as solutions but to give more choices.

If Xsyon can simply stick to that, I have no problem with any direction he decides to take this game.

Thanks for the help in this Keith.

-Big C

[Bridger]

Clear as mud to me too. Sorry, but there it is.

'Safe zone will be there in Prelude unless you turn them off. After Prelude safe zones go away.'

How do you get the second, italicized part? If safe zones go away, why would you need, "...A separate zone (as the mist clears) or server with no safe zones..."?

Since I'm not willing to just assume the game will work the way I want it to work, I can't read that 'clarification' to mean what I want it to mean. I still have major questions remaining about the fundamentals of PvP in a game where 'rebuilding the world is the focus, not PvP.' This clarification answered none of them.

[yoori]

Have you seen how fast scrap piles disapear? Big tribes will have to claim more resources to even survive and small tribes will have to trade with them.

All of the claimed land we'll be able to conquer. Thats where you'll get your PvP.

This game should cater to all types of players except griefer PK type.

[ifireallymust]

No problem with any of it here. 6-9 months is plenty of time for me to figure everything out and prepare for the changes.

[Bridger]

"Big tribes will have to claim more resources to even survive and small tribes will have to trade with them."

What do you trade if you have no access to resources to create anything for trade?

" 6-9 months is plenty of time for me to figure everything out and prepare for the changes."

How do you prepare for a change if you don't know what that change will entail?

I'm truly not trying to be a nay-sayer. I'm really and truly not. What I've seen of Xsyon so far genuinely intrigues and interests me. I see great potential, that is well within the developers' reach.

But I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the lack of statement regarding some pretty fundamental design choices. To be blunt, I'm just not interested in the game that some folks are convinced Xsyon will become. If they're right, fine. I'm not going to agitate for the design to change to suit my tastes. I'll just go back to EVE. No harm. No foul.

On the other hand, I've read a developer statement of concept that says, 'Xsyon will be about rebuilding the world. The focus won't be on PvP. PvP will just be there to add a sense of adventure and an overcome-able obstacle to that continuing attempt at rebuilding.' (Yes, I'm reading in that last sentence.) If, six to nine months in, 'the changes' become, 'Okay. This is now all about constant PvP warfare and everything else is secondary to that', I'm gone.

One person's opinion. Take it however you want.

[mgilbrtsn]

In Prelude, people have safe zones. They can turn them off. After Prelude, they will all be turned off. That's how I understand the current plan, but nothing is written on stone.

That's what I love about this game. Transparent developers that give out these updates.

this is what i understand

[ifireallymust]

"Big tribes will have to claim more resources to even survive and small tribes will have to trade with them."

What do you trade if you have no access to resources to create anything for trade?

" 6-9 months is plenty of time for me to figure everything out and prepare for the changes."

How do you prepare for a change if you don't know what that change will entail?

I'm truly not trying to be a nay-sayer. I'm really and truly not. What I've seen of Xsyon so far genuinely intrigues and interests me. I see great potential, that is well within the developers' reach.

But I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the lack of statement regarding some pretty fundamental design choices. To be blunt, I'm just not interested in the game that some folks are convinced Xsyon will become. If they're right, fine. I'm not going to agitate for the design to change to suit my tastes. I'll just go back to EVE. No harm. No foul.

On the other hand, I've read a developer statement of concept that says, 'Xsyon will be about rebuilding the world. The focus won't be on PvP. PvP will just be there to add a sense of adventure and an overcome-able obstacle to that continuing attempt at rebuilding.' (Yes, I'm reading in that last sentence.) If, six to nine months in, 'the changes' become, 'Okay. This is now all about constant PvP warfare and everything else is secondary to that', I'm gone.

One person's opinion. Take it however you want.

I think we solo players and small tribes can learn the game and then prepare the same way small communities have always prepared for a violent world. Communicate, divide defense responsibilities, have traders boycott the predatory tribes, get together and go after the criminals, and otherwise go about our own business.

[KeithStone]

I think that after or later in prelude tribes that want to allow FFA on their territory, will be able to turn safezones off, others will stay with safezones unless in war.

and then after prelude will be like this:


The main discussion seems to be regarding safe zones. Some players are imagining 'safe switches' that can be turned on and off. That's not part of any plan.

that's what I'm waiting for! :)

That's why I no longer feel there needs to be a seperate server, when in the end they are just going to be pretty much the same anyway.

[Honelith]

That's why I no longer feel there needs to be a seperate server, when in the end they are just going to be pretty much the same anyway.

That's exactly why a PVP server won't be needed. :)

[yoori]

"Big tribes will have to claim more resources to even survive and small tribes will have to trade with them."

What do you trade if you have no access to resources to create anything for trade?

" 6-9 months is plenty of time for me to figure everything out and prepare for the changes."

How do you prepare for a change if you don't know what that change will entail?

I'm truly not trying to be a nay-sayer. I'm really and truly not. What I've seen of Xsyon so far genuinely intrigues and interests me. I see great potential, that is well within the developers' reach.

But I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the lack of statement regarding some pretty fundamental design choices. To be blunt, I'm just not interested in the game that some folks are convinced Xsyon will become. If they're right, fine. I'm not going to agitate for the design to change to suit my tastes. I'll just go back to EVE. No harm. No foul.

On the other hand, I've read a developer statement of concept that says, 'Xsyon will be about rebuilding the world. The focus won't be on PvP. PvP will just be there to add a sense of adventure and an overcome-able obstacle to that continuing attempt at rebuilding.' (Yes, I'm reading in that last sentence.) If, six to nine months in, 'the changes' become, 'Okay. This is now all about constant PvP warfare and everything else is secondary to that', I'm gone.

One person's opinion. Take it however you want.

Scraps are not only resources you can get, and when scrap piles are gone we'll have to get something instead, probably mining. Do you think that 5 or 10 men tribe will be able to claim and defend mine agains 50 or 100 men tribe?

What small tribes can have to trade? wood(craft), tammed animals, grain, alcohol, bones(and craft). Big tribes will probably become cities while small tribes will be villages supplying cities.

[willbonney]

add in the effect that after the Prelude, the trash piles should be pretty much gone themselves. Thus bringing other methods to get those resources, as in, the only way to get metal/plastic/cloth scrap at the moment is junk piles. Later, will be fields of cotton, herds of sheep, mining for metals, and some sort of tar or oil mining for plastic materials.

In other words, not just real life industry and evolution, but Xsyonistic as well.

Heh, yoori saying about the same as myself, only 4 minutes faster then I can read the final post and reply.

Agree with yoori.

[ifireallymust]

Scraps are not only resources you can get, and when scrap piles are gone we'll have to get something instead, probably mining. Do you think that 5 or 10 men tribe will be able to claim and defend mine agains 50 or 100 men tribe?

What small tribes can have to trade? wood(craft), tammed animals, grain, alcohol, bones(and craft). Big tribes will probably become cities while small tribes will be villages supplying cities.

There are types of mining that don't require static locations, and mountain areas are perfect for them. There's panning rivers and streams and there are small one person mines that tap out quickly. How this will work depends on if the devs want to make this a constant war over static locations. They can do so, of course, but they can also, if they so choose, actually make the small mountain communities and wandering explorers the source of some or most of the mined resources.

[yoori]

That's why I no longer feel there needs to be a seperate server, when in the end they are just going to be pretty much the same anyway.

You have to uderstand that if we get another server it'll be FFA DF 2.0 heaven, while here FFA will be restricted with TvT system as a PvP source.

[BigCountry]

The only reason we asked for the "Chaos" server asap is because we were told yesterday that the tribal PvP was going to be consensual.

Now that it's not the case (I think lol), there is no need for the Chaos server for launch.

Althought it would be kinda of cool to have it open later down the road. Kinda like Siege Perilous and UO.

[bruisie159]

You have to uderstand that if we get another server it'll be FFA DF 2.0 heaven, while here FFA will be restricted with TvT system as a PvP source.

This seems not to be the case now AFTER prelude there wont be tribal safe zones

[yoori]

There are types of mining that don't require static locations, and mountain areas are perfect for them. There's panning rivers and streams and there are small one person mines that tap out quickly. How this will work depends on if the devs want to make this a constant war over static locations. They can do so, of course, but they can also, if they so choose, actually make the small mountain communities and wandering explorers the source of some or most of the mined resources.

Let's be honest game economy depends on war with all the armor and weapons we can craft.

If there are no static claimable resources to fight for, we might as well turn PvP off, becouse there's no reason for war, leaving PvP players with PK or leaving the game.

Game was created with tribes in mind. Homesteads were added to cater solo players, but they won't be part of global meta game and conflict. Solo players and small tribes won't be selfsufficient and will have to depend on big tribes.

You can try to change it, after all we create gameplay, but that's how I see it in the long run.

[MrKrueak]

I've changed my mind after some thought, i'd rather them bring up another server to be in chaos mode so most of the gankers will head over there and real pvp players that intend to use the features as they should instead of just ganking everyone on sight can be on the main server. I'd rather have a smaller population than be ganked every 5 minutes as happens in most games like DF, MO and so far xsyon.

[yoori]

bruisie159;46952]This seems not to be the case now AFTER prelude there wont be tribal safe zones[/QUOTE]

This is exactly the case this server will have restricted FFA, we'll just have to wait and see how exactly.

I haven't seen Jooky confirm that safezones will diapear after Prelude in his anouncement. And they never meant be removed during Prelude, so have you confirmed that they will disapear?


All I've seen is that we'll have to choose if we want to keep them or not(that doesn't mean they will stay).

[Bridger]

Scraps are not only resources you can get, and when scrap piles are gone we'll have to get something instead, probably mining.

I realize this and think it's a marvelous design choice.


"Do you think that 5 or 10 men tribe will be able to claim and defend mine agains 50 or 100 men tribe?"

If there is no game mechanic to enable the small tribe to opt out of the fight, no - I certainly don't. So are you saying if you want to be a crafter your only option is to join a 50 or 100 man tribe? If so, do you think that's a game mechanic that will tend to draw more or fewer players to Xsyon? And if you think - correctly, in my opinion - that's a potential design choice that will drive potential players away and you also think driving potential players away is not a viable business choice for the developers to make, what are the alternatives? (See below)


"What small tribes can have to trade? wood(craft), tammed animals, grain, alcohol, bones(and craft)."

Why would a large 50 - 100 man tribe trade for something they can get just as easily themselves for free? Remember, they have 50 - 100 people. What are all those people doing if they're not out grabbing all the resources for their own tribe? Are they out protecting the little 1-5 man tribes who are doing their collection thing? This might be workable. Are they defending the camp/town/city where the little 1-5 man tribes are welcome to enter and do their crafting thing in peace - perhaps for a percentage of their product as 'rent'? This might be workable too, especially if you couple it with protection for them while the 'pesants' are out doing their hunting/gathering thing. (The first step toward rebuilding the world: the re-discovery of feudalism.)

So where are the developer statements saying, 'Yes. We like this concept. We may very well implement this'?

That is the kind of 'clarification' I would like to see.

[bruisie159]

all im saying is a lot of people seemed to have taken from that statement that safe zones will go. probably because he said there would be no option to toggle them.

(sorry should have quoted Yoori)

[KeithStone]

all im saying is a lot of people seemed to have taken from that statement that safe zones will go. probably because he said there would be no option to toggle them.

(sorry should have quoted Yoori)

From Xsyon in the Official Announcements
The main discussion seems to be regarding safe zones. Some players are imagining 'safe switches' that can be turned on and off. That's not part of any plan. I am considering allowing tribes that want to war sooner than others to remove their safe zone if they so desire. A separate zone (as the mist clears) or server with no safe zones at all is also under consideration depending on the world's population. My goal is not to impose new limits as solutions but to give more choices.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you won't be able to turn your tribe city into a safe spot that doesn't allow other people to attack your tribe after prelude. (no switches)

There will be plenty for you to use in order to better defend against attackers, and it's up to tribes to determine how well they want to setup defenses inside their cities.

[yoori]

We have deep crafting system where different components, effect final product(fir might be better than willow for some items) I think every crafter will have to trade to get the best components for their product. You will have to cut trees selectively to let them regrow. If big tribes will trade wood, depends on how much of it they need.

You might be safe in your village and opt out of fight, but everyone will have to fight for resources that's the source of conflict in game.



And regarding safezones, It's not clear to me if they will stay as an option after prelude or not. One thing is clear, it'll be one time choice.

Even if they stay after Prelude they will limit FAA, not TvT wars.

[BigCountry]

you won't be able to turn your tribe city into a safe spot that doesn't allow other people to attack your tribe after prelude. (no switches)

There will be plenty for you to use in order to better defend against attackers, and it's up to tribes to determine how well they want to setup defenses inside their cities.

/this

Can we please get this posted on the home page or Emailed to everyone....
lol

[KeithStone]

You may be safe in your village and opt out of fight choosing "safezone ON", everyone will have to fight for resources that's the source of conflict in game.

i think you are confused- you won't be able to flip a switch that say's safe zone on

this was already confirmed in the latest announcements by xsyon/jooky

[yoori]

i think you are confused- you won't be able to flip a switch that say's safe zone on

this was already confirmed in the latest announcements by xsyon/jooky

that's not what I meant and I already edited it. It was confusing.