Why I don't like Xsyon

[Aldun]

Now, seeing as I'm posting this on a site full of Xsyon fans I know I will get flames, but I hope to see a mature discussion and hopefully the devs can use this to improve their game, which can cause me to start playing again.

The game starts simple: you create a character and login. And now? You got not a clue what to do unless you go look to third party videos which shouldn't be the way to learn a new game. Yes, there's a manual, but that's quite different. You look to some videos, start foraging etcetera. After more than an hour of travel, 2 deaths and more cluelessness about everything I reach a tribe. Now what?

I could go fishing. Grinding.
I could go Scavenging. Grinding. (Walk to some location, stare at a casting bar, walk a bit forward, stare at a casting bar etc).
I could go foraging. Same story.
I could go chopping. Same story.
I could go Terraforming. Not really and perhaps the most fun thing, but it becomes mindnumbing very quickly.
I could go crafting, but for that, you'll have to grind more than any game I've ever seen before.

Now, I know many people won't mind grinding. But the fact that it's simply staring at a casting bar 50% of the time, dropping items to make space 25% of the time and walking forward 25% of time time, just ain't fun. The physics don't look realistic which make it quite annoying as well, as well as the fact you actually have to have your mouse BENEATH the button you want to click for it to turn red and clickable (but I assume this gets fixed).
Now you can start to build walls. So what? It's not like theres a threat of getting raided by animals or so. And if, -if-, somehow there's every a war they will simply come throuh your entrance.. There are no fighting skills (as in, action skills) the fighting isn't really spectacular either.

In short, the game is very confusing at start which will stop many newcomers, and it feels like a major grind without gaining anything for it. Because yes, you build a town, but 99% of the things you build seem to be purely cosmetic and useless. Put this together with a bad-responding UI, movement control and the graphics (square blocks as shadows from leaves??) I really don't like the game.

[sionide]

Sounds like this game isn't for you. It's not for everyone. Plain as that.

[KeithStone]

1. It's an RPG based on skills that level while you are doing them.
2. I'm an architect so I don't really have to grind up craft skills.
3. Chopping trees in Xsyon actually makes sense, you chop the tree and it falls over right in front of you, then you determine if you want to cut it up into small or large pieces.
4 Terraforming is my most favorite thing about this entire game, I can shape the world the way I see fit.
5. Crafting requires help from many people and is one of the best ideas that I've seen for this game, you can't be a pure solo player, after all it's an MMO.
6. Combat is continually being worked on and optimized and now that they have a new programmer dedicated to the combat we should start to see some nice changes/additions to the combat.
7. Walls are optional, however there are gates as well that haven't been released yet- in order to get into your city they will have to siege there way in.
8. Graphics to me are decent and because they are not as graphic heavy in this game more people will be able to run Xyson with a better ping/fps.

Last thing you talk about is how confusing it is, I admit that there's a learning curve but to me that's one of my top things I like with new mmo's- learning how to play. I don't feel like I need an in game guide telling me what to do, I like exploring the controls just as much as I like exploring the world.

However, you are probably right- Xsyon just might not be for you.

[Aldun]

1. It's an RPG and skills based on hwat you do.
2. If you don't like grinding you probably should not be playing rpg's.
3. Chopping trees in Xsyon actually makes sense, you chop the tree and it ralls over right in front of you, then you determine if you want to cut it up into small or large pieces.
4 Terraforming is my most favorite thing about this entire game, I can shape the world the way I see fit.
5. Crafting requires help from many people and is one of the best ideas that I've seen for this game, you can't be a pure solo player, after it's an MMO.
6. Combat is continually being worked on and optimized, and now that they have a new programmer dedicated to the combat we should start to see some nice changes/additions to the combat.
7. Walls are optional, however there are gates as well that haven't been released yet- in order to get into your city they will have to siege there way in.

Last thing you talk abou tis how confusing it is, I admit that there's a learning curve but to me that's one of my top things I like with new mmo's- learning how to play.

However, you are probably right- Xsyon just might not be for you.

2. I have been playing (mmo)rpgs for years now, and yes they're 'my kind of game'. However, there's a difference between grinding and grinding. The grinding here is staring at a casting bar, grinding in many other mmos is using 5+ different skills, fighting or at least really feeling like you're doing something yourself instead of looking at your screen and doing nothing.

3. I never said it doesn't make sense :o?
4. As said in my original post I agree Terraforming is quite fun, but mindnumbing.
5. I never said you don't require help, but you require the help of several people in the way that they're all grinding.
6. I ofcourse don't know about things that aren't released yet, but for now the combat is simply nothing spectacular.
7. As long as there are no gates walls are useless.
8. You're quite contradicting yourself here to be honest. Why should they have to run on thngs that don't get run? How many self-respectable gamers still run on Pentium? A game shouldnt lower their graphics for no longer buyable machines to be able to run it.

And yes as you could've obviously made up from my OP this game ain't for me, I'm just trying to discuss why/why not :).

[wulvgar]

Sounds like this game isn't for you. It's not for everyone. Plain as that.

agree its not for everyone, sometimes I question why I love this game. But I DO hahahaa

[orious13]

You have some problems on your side with the second to last paragraph. Full screen I have no problems with "clicking", but if I pick an awkward resolution for window mode I do have to click a little lower than the center of emote icons. Barely noticible.

Also by the second to last and last paragraph it's pretty clear you haven't read much about the game. Search the FAQ section and throughout the forums for future features. The game isn't done yet we are starting off in prelude to create the foundation of the gaming world as players. It's probably the current lag on your UI problem. Bad movement and graphics? Change your key binds....? The shadows just seems low resed you probably have to up your shadow res or turn on advanced shadows... I don't remember.

~All in all it seems like as sionide said, this isn't your game. When I first started it was before the 18th and I had no clue what to do, but I learned a lot without videos or help. I like the cluelessness and feeling that you're really lost when you're really lost.

So what did I do? I asked myself, what did I want to do? So I explored until I found someplace that seemed like a nice place to call home. Then I built a fire.... searched around the lake... stole some bins/containers...discovered that the green mist is not friendly.

The point is that you aren't directed. You get to do whatever you want as long as you have the tools "in game and out" to get there.

[KeithStone]

2. I have been playing (mmo)rpgs for years now, and yes they're 'my kind of game'. However, there's a difference between grinding and grinding. The grinding here is staring at a casting bar, grinding in many other mmos is using 5+ different skills, fighting or at least really feeling like you're doing something yourself instead of looking at your screen and doing nothing.

3. I never said it doesn't make sense :o?
4. As said in my original post I agree Terraforming is quite fun, but mindnumbing.
5. I never said you don't require help, but you require the help of several people in the way that they're all grinding.
6. I ofcourse don't know about things that aren't released yet, but for now the combat is simply nothing spectacular.
7. As long as there are no gates walls are useless.
8. You're quite contradicting yourself here to be honest. Why should they have to run on thngs that don't get run? How many self-respectable gamers still run on Pentium? A game shouldnt lower their graphics for no longer buyable machines to be able to run it.

And yes as you could've obviously made up from my OP this game ain't for me, I'm just trying to discuss why/why not :).

I edited my post to make more sense, I kind of got off topic a little with what I wanted to talk about- I wasn't trying to convince you that you should like the game just because of the things that I like abou it.

[Aethaeryn]

Now, seeing as I'm posting this on a site full of Xsyon fans I know I will get flames, but I hope to see a mature discussion and hopefully the devs can use this to improve their game, which can cause me to start playing again.

The game starts simple: you create a character and login. And now? You got not a clue what to do unless you go look to third party videos which shouldn't be the way to learn a new game. Yes, there's a manual, but that's quite different. You look to some videos, start foraging etcetera. After more than an hour of travel, 2 deaths and more cluelessness about everything I reach a tribe. Now what?

I could go fishing. Grinding.
I could go Scavenging. Grinding. (Walk to some location, stare at a casting bar, walk a bit forward, stare at a casting bar etc).
I could go foraging. Same story.
I could go chopping. Same story.
I could go Terraforming. Not really and perhaps the most fun thing, but it becomes mindnumbing very quickly.
I could go crafting, but for that, you'll have to grind more than any game I've ever seen before.

Now, I know many people won't mind grinding. But the fact that it's simply staring at a casting bar 50% of the time, dropping items to make space 25% of the time and walking forward 25% of time time, just ain't fun. The physics don't look realistic which make it quite annoying as well, as well as the fact you actually have to have your mouse BENEATH the button you want to click for it to turn red and clickable (but I assume this gets fixed).
Now you can start to build walls. So what? It's not like theres a threat of getting raided by animals or so. And if, -if-, somehow there's every a war they will simply come throuh your entrance.. There are no fighting skills (as in, action skills) the fighting isn't really spectacular either.

In short, the game is very confusing at start which will stop many newcomers, and it feels like a major grind without gaining anything for it. Because yes, you build a town, but 99% of the things you build seem to be purely cosmetic and useless. Put this together with a bad-responding UI, movement control and the graphics (square blocks as shadows from leaves??) I really don't like the game.

I always hated when people said "you're playing it wrong" . . I think this might be the closest case. When I started playing Darkfall someone suggested that I not grind but instead just play the game. .. do a bit of everything and if I wanted to focus on a certain skill just use that more. The idea of salvaging isn't to increase your salvaging skill. It is to get items while exploring / hunting etc. If you are here to "level" your character then sure it is a grind.

I remember a friend of mine tried UO well after release. I told him how it was not a grind. He found it that way though he said you just grind skills instead of levels. I had only ever skilled up while "adventuring". Does Xsyon offer the same interesting world to explore as UO? Time will tell once things get settled.

I can see your point. . once you have a home. . etc. etc. what are you suppose to do. By then there will hopefully be some politics going on. This is not a game that you should play like a single player MMO - but that seems to be how you are approaching it. It won't work. I am not sure how long it will hold my attention as I am a bit of a "completionist". There are lots of people who just like to play in a virtual world. Your reasons for disliking it are valid. I would suggest trying some more things out. . get out and talk to people and give the game a good try after release.

[mrcalhou]

It would be nice if some of the more grindy aspects were a bit more interactive.

[jumpshot]

Sounds like this game isn't for you. It's not for everyone. Plain as that.

this

[wirerzo]

If something is a "grind" to you, it is not fun. If you are playing the game and having fun doing it, it would not be grinding. If you constantly find yourself saying "Ugh, I don't want to grind this crap", there's a good chance you are not having fun, and you should find something else to do with your time. It's pretty simple. Also, you don't need to waste more time posting a thread about it. Just go do something else. :)

Thanks for giving your opinion about the game, I was desperately waiting to hear it, although I have no idea what you wanted to accomplish by posting this thread.

[Vadio]

@Mrcalhou yes fact i sugest to make craft mini games ;)
(dont remember exact post)

About fishing ? :) Look wow fishing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUxMiEuvgLI
Easy way to become dynamic and prevent simple easy macro

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/2793-Do-you-think-now-craft-boring
I FOUND ;)

[FabricSoftener]

I win a bet!

I knew 'grind' posts would begin before the end of march :)

and I assure you it will go on for years

[shukes]

Now, seeing as I'm posting this on a site full of Xsyon fans I know I will get flames, but I hope to see a mature discussion and hopefully the devs can use this to improve their game, which can cause me to start playing again.

The game starts simple: you create a character and login. And now? You got not a clue what to do unless you go look to third party videos which shouldn't be the way to learn a new game. Yes, there's a manual, but that's quite different. You look to some videos, start foraging etcetera. After more than an hour of travel, 2 deaths and more cluelessness about everything I reach a tribe. Now what?

I could go fishing. Grinding.
I could go Scavenging. Grinding. (Walk to some location, stare at a casting bar, walk a bit forward, stare at a casting bar etc).
I could go foraging. Same story.
I could go chopping. Same story.
I could go Terraforming. Not really and perhaps the most fun thing, but it becomes mindnumbing very quickly.
I could go crafting, but for that, you'll have to grind more than any game I've ever seen before.

Now, I know many people won't mind grinding. But the fact that it's simply staring at a casting bar 50% of the time, dropping items to make space 25% of the time and walking forward 25% of time time, just ain't fun. The physics don't look realistic which make it quite annoying as well, as well as the fact you actually have to have your mouse BENEATH the button you want to click for it to turn red and clickable (but I assume this gets fixed).
Now you can start to build walls. So what? It's not like theres a threat of getting raided by animals or so. And if, -if-, somehow there's every a war they will simply come throuh your entrance.. There are no fighting skills (as in, action skills) the fighting isn't really spectacular either.

In short, the game is very confusing at start which will stop many newcomers, and it feels like a major grind without gaining anything for it. Because yes, you build a town, but 99% of the things you build seem to be purely cosmetic and useless. Put this together with a bad-responding UI, movement control and the graphics (square blocks as shadows from leaves??) I really don't like the game.

This is more of a building game friend than a combat game.
The game is about building communities and towns. Making your mark in a world that actually makes a difference.

I see what you mean about staring at a casting bar and grinding....but isnt every mmo pretty much the same thing just dressed up differently? i played Rift recently and found myself just going over the same mind numbingly boring quests that i have been for the last 5 years. all i seemed to be doing was watching my " kill 10 bears" count go up and nothing else! in Xyson we concentrate more on building and crafting than combat, only in Xyson what you do actually makes a difference.

As for the not knowing what to do! do you ever here the same old " bring back Everquest " argument? well ill tell you a little about me. EQ was the first ever mmo i played and still ranks as the best mmo experience i ever had...and possibly ever will. the reason for this is simple....i had no idea what to do! i mean at one point someone sent me a tell...i had no idea how this guy was speaking to me when he wasnt anywhere near me lol! Every step i made n that game was a learning experience and this is why many of us are enjoying Xyson so much....not everything is written out for you, you have to go and find out yourself.

This is no means a reason why you should like Xyson by the way. this is just why i love the game and the direction the game seems to be fired at.

Good luck finding your niche friend and sorry you didnt find Xyson to be your taste.

[Zephyr]

Can I have your stuff?

Oh wait, the game isn't even live yet, officially. Never mind.

Sandbox games do take a particular mindset that is different from the 'classic' MMO (read: WOW) mindset. It's the journey, not the destination. Yes, it does sound like this game is not right for you. But it is right for people with a more unrestricted vision of what an MMO can be. The very things that make this game different from the MMOs that are set up to run on a rail are what I like about Xsyon: the freeform nature, the fact that you aren't channeled into any one particular activity, the ability to actually affect the game world in lasting ways.

[thurgond]

Normal MMORPG definitions:

Grind: Kill 20 rats for 100 experience each. Total 2,000 experience.
Content: Talk to guy with glowing thingie over his head. Run to field of rats and kill 10 rats for 100 experience each. Run back to guy and get 1,000 experience. Total 2,000 experience.

In today's theme park games, I find the content less fun than grinding because the running back and forth is less engaging than killing the marginally challenging rats. Back in the day when the way to level was to sit in one spot and pull rats until the players were half dead of boredom, hunger or both, that too was a boring grind.

In Xsyon, I find no need to grind any one skill for long. My usual routine is to run a forage, scavenge, gathering route. Back at camp I see what can be made from the stuff I've found and put the rest into bins. Seldom do I repeat the same recipe more than 4-5 times in one route. This may be interrupted if a tribe member or neighbor needs a basket/tool/armor/weapon I can make. There are also occasional interruptions from four and two legged critters that need to be hunted and killed. If I get thirsty, I jog down to the stream where I might do a little fishing or make 20 or so bricks for the wall.

To be sure, getting a craft skill to a high level, scavenging to the point where I can find good stuff regularly, finishing a long masonry wall or any other tough goal will take a lot of repetitions, but in Xsyon I'm finding there is less grinding the same set of actions over and over than in the competition.

In Xsyon like the real world, you need to set your own goals or let your tribe set them for you. As others have said, if you need the guys with the glowing thingies to set your goals, this may not be the game for you.

Ravelli

[orious13]

Normal MMORPG definitions:

Grind: Kill 20 rats for 100 experience each. Total 2,000 experience.
Content: Talk to guy with glowing thingie over his head. Run to field of rats and kill 10 rats for 100 experience each. Run back to guy and get 1,000 experience. Total 2,000 experience.

In today's theme park games, I find the content less fun than grinding because the running back and forth is less engaging than killing the marginally challenging rats. Back in the day when the way to level was to sit in one spot and pull rats until the players were half dead of boredom, hunger or both, that too was a boring grind.

In Xsyon, I find no need to grind any one skill for long. My usual routine is to run a forage, scavenge, gathering route. Back at camp I see what can be made from the stuff I've found and put the rest into bins. Seldom do I repeat the same recipe more than 4-5 times in one route. This may be interrupted if a tribe member or neighbor needs a basket/tool/armor/weapon I can make. There are also occasional interruptions from four and two legged critters that need to be hunted and killed. If I get thirsty, I jog down to the stream where I might do a little fishing or make 20 or so bricks for the wall.

To be sure, getting a craft skill to a high level, scavenging to the point where I can find good stuff regularly, finishing a long masonry wall or any other tough goal will take a lot of repetitions, but in Xsyon I'm finding there is less grinding the same set of actions over and over than in the competition.

In Xsyon like the real world, you need to set your own goals or let your tribe set them for you. As others have said, if you need the guys with the glowing thingies to set your goals, this may not be the game for you.

Ravelli

great post

[Armand]

Everything in life is a grind; it's just a matter of perspective.

[Dubanka]

Play the game...not the grind

The truthiness of this will be determined once we see the difference between a 100 skill toon and a 30 skill toon.

If the difference in noticeable, but not remarkeable...bravo. We probably wont see a play to grind.

If the difference is OMG I cANT COMPETE, well Houston, we have a problem...since then it will become a race to grind.

Personally i cant say i'm doing anything except for individual or tribe need. I craft when it's needed, fish and forage when i'm hungry, kill when i have the opportunity.

This could change in the future if the skill system has too much impact on performance (why should i got get in a fight against an opponent i know will wtfpwn me because i know he has maxed combat skills?).
Again, hopefully this wont come to pass. would be bad for the game if it did imo.

[mgilbrtsn]

Its too bad you don't like it. I think you are only looking at it superficially. You are only looking at the first phase of the game which is the rebuilding of mankind. Since there are no cities, these must be build up first and will take a couple of months (guessing). If you enjoy world building, this time will be for you. After that however, will come the politics, the trading, the questing through totems, and a host of other social interactions that will make the world come alive. If you don't like the earlier phase, I would recommend you take a look in a few months, and it may be a little less world building oriented.

[Tehroth]

Actually coming from Darkfall I would say this game "fun value" makes doing crafting seem as though its not a grind. I am not a fanboi so I see your point though. Would be neat if they could put interactive systems in play similar to lockpicking in Oblivion for crafting and gathering. Overall i am having a good time, but the wipes got to me.

[China]

8. You're quite contradicting yourself here to be honest. Why should they have to run on thngs that don't get run? How many self-respectable gamers still run on Pentium? A game shouldnt lower their graphics for no longer buyable machines to be able to run it.

Now that's quite ridiculous, and you know it. If you can't be honest, then you = fail.

China

[fflhktsn]

To be honest, its why i decided to go the combat route, which turned into having to gank route.

Took about 3 days of crafting hard to realize what it was going to be like the rest of the game.

I think that if the focus of this game is going to be crafting, not combat, or pvp, or community interaction and chat, then they really do need something to make the resource and crafting aspects more than just repetition. Perhaps give me an active way to influence the design or hidden stats of the items im creating.

The OP does have a point, and i know its a big sore spot for the community to point this out, it involves a whole lot of staring at a slow moving cast bar, even if it was fast, theres little interaction past adding the materials in the craft action window. And scavanging is rather boring, your lying to yourself if you think it isnt.

i expect to get flamed on anything i write so im not afraid to agree with the OP that the crafting (since this is to be the focus of the game right?) does need some pizzaz added to it.

[river111]

So what your saying is you can't handle the hard work behind crafting and took the easy route out? Thats funny really. Your a quitter and even admit it. A PvPer who found carebear life TOO HARD.

Ok joking aside, you play this game as if your playing the life of your character. If you for one second try to play it like a progression type game you will fail at it. It is not about reaching cap, it is not about pushing for the next level. If this is what yoru into then please go someplace else, because that is not what this game is. Some of you may not like to be told this, but it is the truth. Dont make it worse for yourself, if your not able to play this game as it is, just go away.

[JCatano]

It's not hard "work". The "work" just isn't interesting. SWG crafting was interesting.

[Ziggy]

Crafting in this game really is only fun if you have goals you are working towards other than just getting more recipes/higher skills.

[caldrin]

To the OP..

I dont think MMORPG games are for you at all, may i recommend FPS games as they are instant gratification you can jump in and do what ya want. MMORPGs are all about character development things are suppose to take time thats what makes people stick around so long. For example WOW has an item grind you hit 80 or err 85 now and its jsut constant grind donig the same dungeons over and over and over and over and over until you have all the latest gear then blizzard release a patch or exp thats adds a load more gear so off you go again. Games like This and Darkfall is a stat grind where you have to get your skills up by actually performng the task associated with that skill... They are just differnt ways to develop your character and for me a major part of a MMORPG. If you dont like this kinda thing then MMORPG games are not for u.

[Mystais]

Maybe this game is for you and you just do not realize it yet.

I am unsure as to whether you play solo or are a member of a tribe (may have missed it in the thread), but...

Perhaps if you play solo then try joining a good tribe. Working with others in this game opens up so so much more. Yes I know there is a draw to being a loner and living off the land but that is like advanced mode and with all the current game issues and such, this may not be the time to play advanced mode.

Heck the tribe I am in is at war with another tribe within visual distance. At first we really disliked each other but after a whole day of pvp (1v1 to 6v6), we have grown to somewhat respect each other... no griefing or name calling or anything but lots of "nice fight", "wow you hit hard", "aww you took my pants... again". Heck they even come by and hang out with us at our campfire.

And on top of all that we have most of our walls up, stacks and stacks of surplus resources and can make all the tool types. Heck we have even started trading with other local tribes and homesteads and they come by to visit.

Our tribe has only been there two days.

This is not intended as a shameless brag or anything of the sort but just an example of what is possible. Even with all the lag and game issues this has been the most enjoyable two days I have had in a game since UO beta.

Just give it some time. Heck, you already have it paid up for the next 2-3 months so what have you to lose?

[outfctrl]

Personally, I find this game to be very relaxing. I have enough of stress in my life without having to go into a game for more. I enjoy fishing, foraging, exploring, hunting, scavenging and crafting. Add to that, a little suspense of someone sneaking up behind me to kill me makes it more intriguing. I always put all my good stuff in my tribes basket before I go out in the wild. Hell, if I lose my hatchet or fishing pole, screw it, there is another one back at the tribe. If there isn't, someone can craft it for me. I am not a big crafter, but as long as I pull my weight and bring back stuff for the guys to make stuff, it's all good. Working together as a team is the key to success in this game.
Also, a good leader makes all the difference in the world.

Soloing is going to be tough because of PvP full loot. I guess it could be done, but it can become very aggravating at times the way I see it.

[fflhktsn]

Personally, I find this game to be very relaxing. I have enough of stress in my life without having to go into a game for more. I enjoy fishing, foraging, exploring, hunting, scavenging and crafting. Add to that, a little suspense of someone sneaking up behind me to kill me makes it more intriguing. I always put all my good stuff in my tribes basket before I go out in the wild. Hell, if I lose my hatchet or fishing pole, screw it, there is another one back at the tribe. If there isn't, someone can craft it for me. I am not a big crafter, but as long as I pull my weight and bring back stuff for the guys to make stuff, it's all good. Working together as a team is the key to success in this game.
Also, a good leader makes all the difference in the world.

Soloing is going to be tough because of PvP full loot. I guess it could be done, but it can become very aggravating at times the way I see it.

You should consider Vanguard, all the relaxing crafting you can take, in a more entertaining craft system, with none of the pvp to stress you.

Just saying...mabey THIS game isnt for you....

[AlexTaldren]

To echo the more sensible people here, this game isn't about achieving level cap, getting meaningless, virtual trophies, or instant gratification. If you're playing it to max out, you'll never enjoy it for what it is. The term "grind" is meaningless.

[outfctrl]

You should consider Vanguard, all the relaxing crafting you can take, in a more entertaining craft system, with none of the pvp to stress you.

Just saying...mabey THIS game isnt for you....

This is for me.
Didnt I say it is very relaxing? I love playing.

[fflhktsn]

This is for me.
Didnt I say it is very relaxing? I love playing.

Just seemed from your last post that your one of those people highly stressed over losing easily replacable pixels. Not to mention that you have to spam more backup items than you could possibly lose in order to skill the craft up.

[Zenmaster13]

Just seemed from your last post that your one of those people highly stressed over losing easily replacable pixels. Not to mention that you have to spam more backup items than you could possibly lose in order to skill the craft up.

This may not be the game for you either. You want to gank/grief, but you don't want how you go about that controlled. You should be playing a single player game. Then you won't have to worry about other people ruining your rule-set.

See. It is easy to say things like what I stated above, but you seem to want everyone who does not follow your opinion, to play another game. Thus, you do not want to play with anyone, but your own playstyle. You clearly do not understand what a sandbox is about. It is not, "Hey this is all my sand, and if you don't play with it in the way I say, then you can just leave".

[r4NGe]

http://i.imgur.com/1KaLL.jpg

[Zephyr]

It's not hard "work". The "work" just isn't interesting. SWG crafting was interesting.

All right, so I like to be able to see all sides of the argument. And I can agree that the crafting mechanic in Xsyon is (as far as we can tell so far) currently pretty darn simple. And there are other games with more complicated crafting rules and minigames. For example, in ATITD, making charcoal is a minigame in and of iteself. So is blacksmithing. Of course, there are macros to trivialize the minigame, but perhaps Xsyon can keep the macro-tide out.

So anyways I would support talking about introducing some crafting minigames into Xsyon somewhere down the road. For example, perhaps cooking or potions can be a minigame. Maybe mixing paint dyes. Or cutting gems and installing them into sockets to enhance weapons.

In the meantime, I think perhaps crafting as it is currently is not quite as simple as you think. The devs have turned off tooltips to spare the lag, but when tooltips were up it revealed that there are all sorts of complex variables at work with crafted items. I'm thinking there are levels of sophistication there that are not immediately apparent.

[Saolite]

What many games have done in the past to promote crafting, and to stave off crafting boredom when crafting large batches of items, they often put in small mini-games related to that specific craft. As a poster above me said, mixing potions for alchemy, or putting gems in sockets on weapons.

On a personal opinion, I believe it does help pass the time, rather than staring at a bar filling / emptying across the screen. One example of a game where I found the crafting to be rather enjoyable was due to them mini-game associated with it :

YouTube - Goonzu Minigame (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrlbrolngi4)

It's a very easy game that everyone has played in some form or fashion; line up three symbols, they disappear, more symbols fall to take their place.

While that game itself might not appease many people and not relate much to Xsyon, something similar could be done, albeit with a changed design and of course a creative flare to it. The main point of the matter is that there are different avenues a development team could take in order to make crafting more enjoyable and interactive.

In addition to that, rather than hinging the quality of the item off the mini-game, it could simply be a bonus ( the higher the score, the more likely good of a better crafted item ) -- up to a certain point, to prevent someone from playing the crafting mini-game for hours on end, that way it is still more derived from actual skill in the craft, rather than simply playing the mini-game for boosted durability and the like.

A good example : Crafting skill of 50 is only able to craft up to X durability -- with the bonus mini-game, X Durability + Slightly more durability, which can equate out to a few more uses. While on the other hand a person with a crafting skill of 75 can craft up to X+10 Durability + More durability.

Incentive to play the mini-game, but at the same time keeping the mini-game only just that -- a mini-game. Optional and only adds slight benefit for " maximizing " what your crafting, and also passing the time while crafting ( especially if crafting large batches of items ).

Though later on, I feel that if items take longer to craft ( which would be a good thing, that way high-end equipment isn't simply spammed everywhere and creates even more specialization on top of skill decay ), it would be beneficial to have something to pass the time while crafting said items.

Again, this is just a personal opinion based off of preference. Not everyone will agree, of course.

[orious13]

Well... I don't want to play tetris or anything remotely unrelated to actually crafting as a mini-game.

My crafting system (lol) involves drawing (lines mostly). You can make anything as long as you can figure out how to draw a "plan" for it. The closer the plan is to the item in the game's database, the better quality the object is. Don't really feel like explaining it here it's just more like crafting than having a gameboy game.... sorry not trying to be mean. I just don't like those types of time wasters.

But.. if you've ever played Moonbase alpha, mini games like that that actually make sense to the craft wouldn't be bad.

[Saolite]

Well... I don't want to play tetris or anything remotely unrelated to actually crafting as a mini-game.

My crafting system (lol) involves drawing (lines mostly). You can make anything as long as you can figure out how to draw a "plan" for it. The closer the plan is to the item in the game's database, the better quality the object is. Don't really feel like explaining it here it's just more like crafting than having a gameboy game.... sorry not trying to be mean. I just don't like those types of time wasters.

But.. if you've ever played Moonbase alpha, mini games like that that actually make sense to the craft wouldn't be bad.

lol. I completely understand -- that was just the only example that I could find on such short notice. A minigame more closely tied in with the actual craft itself would be a great addition to the game. And yes, I have played Moonbase Alpha, though I actually didn't even think of that type of crafting -- it would fit in rather well here, given a few tweaks.

On another thought, a ' mantle and dismantle ' minigame would be nice, too. For example if crafting a weapon, you're given a dozen random parts and then begin to put the parts together that most closely resemble the weapon in question. Same with any other given craft, which would certainly make things more interesting.

[Morgan]

It's not hard "work". The "work" just isn't interesting. SWG crafting was interesting.


Doesn't look that exciting to me, doesn't look much different than xsyon actually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW72-dIiXgs

[bcrfan]

IN which case, I highly recommend you play a game that isnt grindy, you know like Rift, or anything else on rails, because making and building a real world is def more grinday that say, oh being on rails the whole time.

But speaking of SWG crafting, man it would be nice to have grass harvesters for all that basketry I'm gonna do.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

They just said in a russian TV interview that most of the OP's concerns would be reworked in an up -coming patch. Looks like it's a sad day for us PVP'rs and Full on win for the carebears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM

[Sabina]

IN which case, I highly recommend you play a game that isnt grindy, you know like Rift, or anything else on rails, because making and building a real world is def more grinday that say, oh being on rails the whole time.

But speaking of SWG crafting, man it would be nice to have grass harvesters for all that basketry I'm gonna do.

Send our your fellow tribe members as your grass harvesters ;)

[caldrin]

Sure maybe constantly crafting the asme stuff could get boring by yourself, im lucky that about 10 of us have come over from our Darkfall clan to try this out so we are constantly building up resources getting all the toosl we need and equiping people with weapnos and armor. At the moment I am finding this great fun just trying to get our city togeather, and when terraforming gets turned back on will be even better..

Had my first taste of proper group pvp last night as well me and a clan mate verses 3 guys.. sadly they only wanted to water fight but it was still pretty fun killing them even with the lag... tho got killed a few times as well.. with a bit more work on the combat system it would be awesome.


Anyway just play the game you dont need to be maxed out straight away jsut take your time and have fun... if i cant have fun in a game or if it bores me then guess what i just dont play it...

[Lerxst]

Wait. You're playing an MMO and complaining about... grinding? In that case you're taking an entirely wrong approach. This game, from what I've seen, is less about grinding than any game I've played.


I could go fishing. Grinding.
Isn't the point of fishing to catch fish to eat? You can do that with fairly little skill. Why are you even trying to grind this skill?


I could go Scavenging. Grinding. (Walk to some location, stare at a casting bar, walk a bit forward, stare at a casting bar etc).
And the point of scavenging is to find materials. Again, why are you grinding this skill? It goes up naturally as you look for things you need.


I could go foraging. Same story.
Same as above


I could go chopping. Same story.
I don't get people who randomly chop down trees - as if you gain something from it? You chop down trees to get wood to build things, not for the sake of chopping down more trees.


I could go crafting, but for that, you'll have to grind more than any game I've ever seen before.
Again, why are you grinding? You craft things you need. You use the things you craft to either craft more, build things, or trade. What, exactly, are you grinding?

I will agree, though, that some kind of quick, "welcome" tutorial for the game can go a long way. I already posted this and I think the review on MMORPG.com also mentions this.

But, if you've been programmed to play MMO's by grinding all the skills possible, then don't play this one, otherwise, you'll never actually enjoy it.