The future of trade in Xsyon - Auction Houses suck

[mindtrigger]

Is there anyone here who has a clear picture of the dev's intended development of trade in this game? I have to be honest and say that if there is going to be an Auction House system only, I'm going to have to pick up my toys and go home. I truly believe that the invention of Auction Houses is one of the biggest destroyers of community and socializing in modern MMO games.

The auction house takes trade where people must interact and turns it into a nameless, faceless system where people simply buy stuff out of a shopping-cart like system. No one cares who crafted stuff. Relationships are not developed through AH trade like they are when you run your own in-house shop. No one has to travel to find high quality goods from master crafters, reputations are not built, trade agreements are not forged, etc. AH systems are lazy development, IMO.

What say you?

[baka77]

Is there anyone here who has a clear picture of the dev's intended development of trade in this game? I have to be honest and say that if there is going to be an Auction House system only, I'm going to have to pick up my toys and go home. I truly believe that the invention of Auction Houses is one of the biggest destroyers of community and socializing in modern MMO games.

The auction house takes trade where people must interact and turns it into a nameless, faceless system where people simply buy stuff out of a shopping-cart like system. No one cares who crafted stuff. Relationships are not developed through AH trade like they are when you run your own in-house shop. No one has to travel to find high quality goods from master crafters, reputations are not built, trade agreements are not forged, etc. AH systems are lazy development, IMO.

What say you?

As the game stands now, I don't think we'd see any AH system like the theme park games have. Why? Because we have no universal currency. Everything right now is barter. Now, there could be an AH system that allows you to place orders. For example, I could post 10 metal blades on the AH with a cost requirement of 100 steel rivets. I think that could work. However, I agree in not wanting AH's run by NPC's.

However, what about a compromise system that actually would help develop trade routes & relationships???

Imagine a Trade Board, where people could post orders like I mentioned above. However, rather than "doing business" at the trade board, bidders would be given directions on who/where to contact if they want to do some business. If I want some saw blades...I can go to the board & see who has some for trade, see what they want for them, & contact that person to begin negotiations. There, of course, would be no mail delivery systems. I think a trade board would be kinda cool & help streamline player interaction. :)

[outfctrl]

I would like to see vendors like UO has. They stand outside and you click on them to see what they have to sell. The owner of the vendor sets his prices. Say 20 steel bolts for a fur hat or whatever.

The owner then checks his vendor to see what has sold. Soon, your tribe will become well known and more people will visit you. This also gives you a chance to meet people who are walking up to your tribe.
just my .02

[afterclap]

As the game stands now, I don't think we'd see any AH system like the theme park games have. Why? Because we have no universal currency. Everything right now is barter. Now, there could be an AH system that allows you to place orders. For example, I could post 10 metal blades on the AH with a cost requirement of 100 steel rivets. I think that could work. However, I agree in not wanting AH's run by NPC's.

However, what about a compromise system that actually would help develop trade routes & relationships???

Imagine a Trade Board, where people could post orders like I mentioned above. However, rather than "doing business" at the trade board, bidders would be given directions on who/where to contact if they want to do some business. If I want some saw blades...I can go to the board & see who has some for trade, see what they want for them, & contact that person to begin negotiations. There, of course, would be no mail delivery systems. I think a trade board would be kinda cool & help streamline player interaction. :)

i think this sounds like something that could work well. A board would really fit nice with the setting rather than some AH. I imagine it would be more of a set of posters with traders/consumers announcing their needs/services and contact info but no magical vending machine. Maybe there could even be an option to add tips on which locations have good crafters or low prices in some area, or where a need for something is present. Like a trading/bulletin board in short. I prefer this way more than some AH, so i'm with you on this.

The way towns are gonna be build up (since we don't have any NPC cities) maybe it could be something separate from, but maybe still connected to, the tribe totems. so you could set up the board any place you'd like in the tribe/town without compromising the location of the totem.

[NexAnima]

From what I can tell, there will be auction houses. Not in the traditional sense though. Each tribe has a setting under ranks to enable the ability to control auctions, this hints (to me anyways) that towns will have local auction house. I could be wrong, but with the tools we are given this is what it looks like to me.

[mindtrigger]

As the game stands now, I don't think we'd see any AH system like the theme park games have. Why? Because we have no universal currency. Everything right now is barter. Now, there could be an AH system that allows you to place orders. For example, I could post 10 metal blades on the AH with a cost requirement of 100 steel rivets. I think that could work. However, I agree in not wanting AH's run by NPC's.

However, what about a compromise system that actually would help develop trade routes & relationships???

Imagine a Trade Board, where people could post orders like I mentioned above. However, rather than "doing business" at the trade board, bidders would be given directions on who/where to contact if they want to do some business. If I want some saw blades...I can go to the board & see who has some for trade, see what they want for them, & contact that person to begin negotiations. There, of course, would be no mail delivery systems. I think a trade board would be kinda cool & help streamline player interaction. :)

I did like the way SWG balanced having some sort of AH with player ran stores (npc vendors). They had a system not unlike your Trade Board idea called the Bazaar that allowd players to buy smaller priced items directly, but it also listed player items for sales on their own personal vendors at their shops. Originally the Bazaar would give you information about where the shop was so you could go purchase the items and pick them up. This system encouraged people to travel great distances and make friends with master crafters who consistently sold high-quality and hard to find items. The crafter/traders made basically built up their own brands and ended up with server-wide reputations for their amazing goods.

The AH has killed this aspect of MMO gaming, along with making crafting its own gameplay style. Sure, people still craft in very simplified crafting systems and post to the AH, but there is no sense of owning your own shop/brand or any of the other neat community aspects this creates.

The Trade Board idea you have is a good one, and it has already been proven a successful way for people to have a central place to find goods, but it still makes them travel and potentially make new friends and have adventures on the way to getting their goods. If we are going sandbox here, lets do it all the way. Those of us who are interested in craft/trade should be able to build our own outposts and shops wherever we live.

One of my favorite things to do in SWG was set up "Outdoor Survival" shops where I would sell things that adventureres needed such as tents, foods, meds, fishing gear, pet foods and other such items. It was very themed and decorated to look like a hunting lodge/shop in the context of the game. People loved it.

[jumpshot]

Is there a reason OP thinks there will be AH's? Not trying to be smart it just seems like you heard there will be and are up in arms.

I do think there'll be a system on tribe totems for set trades. ATM the Quest system can be used for that.

[Archangei]

We wont see traditional AHs in this game, if we even get any Auctionhouses it will be something like a vendor, some people made some good examples from SWG Here.

But im up for manual trade the way we try to set it up will be a neutral trading post, how practical it will be... well only time will tell.

[Vadio]

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/2770-Auction-House-Markets

>)
But vendor is cool

[mindtrigger]

Is there a reason OP thinks there will be AH's? Not trying to be smart it just seems like you heard there will be and are up in arms.

I do think there'll be a system on tribe totems for set trades. ATM the Quest system can be used for that.

No, in fact if I can say anything about this game so far, its that there seems to be little definite information about anything, really. All I wanted to do here is start a conversation about how AHs take away from games in general and help people who may be new to such games understand why leaving them out is important. AH is an easy-button feature that should be reserved for easy-button themepark games. If community is a goal of this game, then trade should be thought through completely.

[mindtrigger]

NPC vendors are a good balance between being a trader and not having to stand around in your shop waiting for people to show up. Think of the NPC vendor as an employee of yours who's job it is to sell your goods while you work on more important things such as crafting and gathering.

Vendors did not come free in SWG. You had to reach a certain skill level as a crafter/trader to have one, and you had to pay a fee to keep them running (like paying an employee to work). Medium level traders had limits on their vendors too, as in how many vendors you could place, how many items the vendors could hold, etc. Higher level traders were able to place multiple NPC vendors in their shops, and even customize the look of them, place more items in them, etc.

Just food for thought. Everyone I know who ever played SWG loved this system for running their business.

[Redemp]

I would keep in mind the limitations of issues that are being addressed, and systems which are in line for changes. In so doing I would keep my requests/wishs for the trade system as simple as possible, in an effort to make them simple to code and implement. I personally favor the trading sign idea, while it is simplistic it also suits the nature of the game, and I would venture it is alot less of an undertaking as a npc vendor .. or similar region Ah's.

Every tribe should have a trading sign .... but those signs should only be accessible by direct contact and word of mouth advertising.

There is also the side of me that wants trade to be completely player driven , with no assistance from the Developers of any kind. In that I have visions of regional player devised auctions , policed by alliances who host them where everyone in the region knows to come and browse goods. There would definately be chaos on some days ... but thats the game, that underlying threat of danger makes the game fun.

[Vadio]

Player vendor/shop FTW!!!! nice times
but also prefer auction

* to others idea to xsyon check mytopic ( sugest several good idea long time ago )

[fflhktsn]

id like a sandbox type AH tool....perhapts a trading post (like a totem) that players could erect at the edge of their camp, and post what good they have to offer, what goods they are looking for, and how they intend to trade (using tribe currency or barter) People could then post replys in game with their offer, possibly attaching the goods to the mesege so the trade could be completed in the absense of both players....you could then return to the trade post and pick up your goods.

a global auction house wouldnt make sense, and all the AH NPC's were wiped out in the apocalypse anyway...right..?


However i think whats going to happen, is a trade section in the forums, which is already here....i hate those...

[Vadio]

My idea consit in local auction house to deposit/witdraw item and global to search item :)
but anyway , need others way to motivate trade

[ifireallymust]

One of my favorite things to do in SWG was set up "Outdoor Survival" shops where I would sell things that adventureres needed such as tents, foods, meds, fishing gear, pet foods and other such items. It was very themed and decorated to look like a hunting lodge/shop in the context of the game. People loved it.

I love the idea of being able to set something like this up eventually. If a trade board directs them to my location via coords, great!

[darg75]

I haven't tried as yet, but isn't there a quest option within the totem pole that allows you to set quests which have rewards? i.e. bring me one saw blade, reward is 20 fish. Effectively that's an NPC vendor.

[Caffy]

If we didn't have any automated system (AH, NPC Vendor) we might see roaming player vendors or other systems prevail without the need for devs to hand a system to us...

[Saolite]

If we didn't have any automated system (AH, NPC Vendor) we might see roaming player vendors or other systems prevail without the need for devs to hand a system to us...

Which would also make the need to hide bodyguards ( PvP-oriented characters ), plan trade routes ( can't go off trading forever with unlimited supplies ), and of course would create player reknown and push commerce along; even if it was only in bartering. The more player involvement and player-driven scenario's, the better a sandbox can be ( usually. There have been rare exceptions where this was counter-productive ).

I for one will be very happy to see if any players risk their wares for profit as they try to sell their items to tribes throughout the world. It would be a worthwhile, and admittedly very risky, business.

[Ziggy]

I am actually counting/hoping for large town based AH's in order to promote merchants being a realistic activity in game. Bringing people in from the region and from far to aggregate and maybe stop by the towns tavern and chat it up.

[ifireallymust]

Which would also make the need to hide bodyguards ( PvP-oriented characters ), plan trade routes ( can't go off trading forever with unlimited supplies ), and of course would create player reknown and push commerce along; even if it was only in bartering. The more player involvement and player-driven scenario's, the better a sandbox can be ( usually. There have been rare exceptions where this was counter-productive ).

I for one will be very happy to see if any players risk their wares for profit as they try to sell their items to tribes throughout the world. It would be a worthwhile, and admittedly very risky, business.

I fully intend to do so, with or without guards. Just not sure how it will work out.

[Darod]

I don't believe a global Auction House is coming and wouldn't want one for the sole reason of it breaks the game's immersion factor. Just as the red Global chat does now. I should not be able to talk to someone on the other side of the lake and I would have no idea what they were selling in this setting.

IMHO As it did in the past, it will in Xsyon. Certain tribes will become known as trade hubs. Certain merchants I hope would be known as producing quality items for a good price and people will travel to get those items from those trade hub towns, or from the small village that might be the vendors home. All of this information will pass through word of mouth with local chat or common talking, no global system as there shouldn't be that technology in this setting.

SWG is the closest system to what I envision in Xsyon only without the Bazaar or search ability. Totems I believe will become like NPC vendors (similar to the quest system) and well run towns will become the trade hubs of the land. This will bring crowds, and spur on other supporting businesses such as taverns, logistic types (haulers and bodyguards)...and yes, thieves.

[PeonSanders911]

I truly believe that the invention of Auction Houses is one of the biggest destroyers of community and socializing in modern MMO games.

The auction house takes trade where people must interact and turns it into a nameless, faceless system where people simply buy stuff out of a shopping-cart like system. No one cares who crafted stuff. Relationships are not developed through AH trade like they are when you run your own in-house shop. No one has to travel to find high quality goods from master crafters, reputations are not built, trade agreements are not forged, etc. AH systems are lazy development, IMO.

What say you?

Since there is no MONEY.....the Auction House would be pretty useless............

[tomduril]

I have tought of that issue as well - so trading ... well it IS important, and it will happen!
It starts with children at the age of about 4 - they really start to trade "Can I stay awake longer, I'll clean up my room if i may :-)"
Thats the first stage of trading ;)

So I guess something like "wandering" trades will emerge from the community, people that wander around from tribe to tribe and conduct trade - or even deliver some sort of messages ... I refer to the film "Postman" of course ;-)

The more likely solution will be to make use of the forum to announce needs and trades.

Probably depends on how immersed the players/tribes want to be - putting locations on the forum will likely also attract Pvp and "evil" players - even now some players "protect" the paths to the more experienced / resourceful players in the game - and they request "toll" for passing ...

With the global chat gone (and I really hope that they keep that idea of "shouting range") - communication will be limited to a small area. So its up to some players, that come around alot. However in-game messages will be important, because otherwise it is quite certain that people will choose the forum to relay messages to other players - especially if they are not in the same time-zone.

I am happy to be able to experience and find out how this will work out in the game - and I guess the developers are also looking forward to see how players will cope with the situation :)

Have fun and kill any trolls on sight :-P

[tomduril]

Just found this on the FAW Developer Forumpost:

* Can you explain how the market system will work, as in how will we be doing trades?

Players will be able to post items with prices at a trade totem.

/vote for close of the thread (as the plans of the developers are revealed in the FAQ section)