Can we revisit the starting weapons?

[Dubanka]

Assumption: we get the combat damage calculations fixed before launch so ua isn't overpowered

Can we tone downt he damage of the pre-order weapons? Why? Well they are 'too good' when compared to other weapons, or armor (see assumption) that a player will likely have access to in the early parts of the game.

People are actually getting one shotted :p. Now if this was the uber axe of vorbal doom, that someone spent hours and hours find the rare ingredients and crafting, which Bob the Destroyer paid an exhorbant price for (so he could pwn face) I would have absolutely no problem with it. But it's not. It's something that you start with. Which is kinda lame imo.

Tone down the damage so that it's better than most players will be able to make for the first couple weeks...but, imo, it should be on par with a weapon a crafter with 40 or 50 skill could make.

[AlexTaldren]

Agreed. We've had a significant time to really test the preorder weapons and they are simply too powerful.

[PeonSanders911]

It works both ways....If you can get "one shotted", then you can do it to someone else.
Increase the ARMOR...that way if your naked, your going to get wasted quick. The armor needs to be more protective....forcing people to wear it as opposed to naked fighting.

[AlexTaldren]

It works both ways....If you can get "one shotted", then you can do it to someone else.
Increase the ARMOR...that way if your naked, your going to get wasted quick. The armor needs to be more protective....forcing people to wear it as opposed to naked fighting.

I do agree that the jump from naked to the most basic of grass/cloth armor should be enough to make wearing armor for PvP worth it. But, that is a separate issue from the starting weapons, which currently make weaponcrafting a useless venture until much higher levels. Weaponcrafters should feel useful from the very start, and with the preorder weapons, they aren't.

[PeonSanders911]

Weaponcrafters should feel useful from the very start, and with the preorder weapons, they aren't.

When they put in "Bows" and "Spears".....the Weaponcrafter will be in HIGH demand. The newbie weapons should stay as powerfull, but they should not be Invunerable....they should break down over time. The pre-order guys should be rewarded, but those weapons should eventually break......

But its the "Bows" and "Spears" that will be the weapons of choice.....

[blackzilla]

Assumption: we get the combat damage calculations fixed before launch so ua isn't overpowered

Can we tone downt he damage of the pre-order weapons? Why? Well they are 'too good' when compared to other weapons, or armor (see assumption) that a player will likely have access to in the early parts of the game.

People are actually getting one shotted :p. Now if this was the uber axe of vorbal doom, that someone spent hours and hours find the rare ingredients and crafting, which Bob the Destroyer paid an exhorbant price for (so he could pwn face) I would have absolutely no problem with it. But it's not. It's something that you start with. Which is kinda lame imo.

Tone down the damage so that it's better than most players will be able to make for the first couple weeks...but, imo, it should be on par with a weapon a crafter with 40 or 50 skill could make.

You are not one shotting people. /Facepalm

[Baldur]

Never one shotted somebody with my Massacre. It takes at least 2 shots, but yeah, it's a very overpowered weapon since it is bound to your character.

[byrgar]

When they put in "Bows" and "Spears".....the Weaponcrafter will be in HIGH demand. The newbie weapons should stay as powerfull, but they should not be Invunerable....they should break down over time. The pre-order guys should be rewarded, but those weapons should eventually break......

But its the "Bows" and "Spears" that will be the weapons of choice.....
So it is fine that preorder weapons are doing too much damage RIGHT NOW because at some point months from now people will be using ranged weapons anyway.....

If they lowered the damage of the preorder weapons, made them the same as, for example, studded pipe smasher tier weapons, then they would still be a bonus compared to non preorder starter weapons, but not that overpowered that a weapon crafter cannot make better fairly quickly.

[yoori]

I think that preorder weapons are breakable like every item in game. They are overpowered though and every weapon with supreme quality will be until dmg calculation is fixed.
To me they should be at best tier 2-3 in quality with best durabiity. That way there would be more powerful weapons soon, but with lower lifespan.

[outfctrl]

I want my pre-order weapon to glow with little jewels spinning around it. ;-)

[blackzilla]

HAND TO HAND COMBAT BEATS THOSE STARTER WEAPONS JUST SAYING. HAND TO HAND NEEDS TO BE NERFED, THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

[Lerxst]

This is why I laugh at the PvP'ers out there who think they're hot stuff now. If/when starter weapons get the nerf they need AND armor actually protects, then we'll have a lot less naked people running around punching people to death.

[Haunt]

Enough false promises already, they better not take away or nerf our pre-order weapons now too. And it better not decay, right now it is about the only benefit I have received for pre-ordering this game.

Fix armor, if it protected you, the weapon would not be an issue. This game is about realism, 2 hits from a super sharp axe would kill almost anyone not wearing armor. In fact it would probably only take one. A dull stubby axe would still kill someone in 3-5 hits, as it does now.

The weapons need no adjustment to dmg, but protection from those weapons (ie. armor) needs to be implemented and working.

[djext2000]

How many people have used pristine quality high lvl made weapons? Is there someone who has compared the two in field tests? Do we even know, or is this just based on starting players using QL 30-40 armor/weapons in comparison?

[mrcalhou]

Enough false promises already, they better not take away or nerf our pre-order weapons now too.

So what was the promise? Getting a preorder weapon or getting "the omfg preorder weapon of godly doom +7"?

I have my preorder weapon. That's all the promised. Now, they need to make them weaker so that people will actually need to buy crap from weaponcrafters when the game starts.

[Haunt]

So what was the promise? Getting a preorder weapon or getting "the omfg preorder weapon of godly doom +7"?

I have my preorder weapon. That's all the promised. Now, they need to make them weaker so that people will actually need to buy crap from weaponcrafters when the game starts.

Do you think the only people that play this game are going to be pre-order people? We are looking at about 15-20 % of the gaming audience right now. The other 80+ % that will flood in AFTER launch will give weapon crafters plenty of business. In fact a good weapon crafter will get MORE business because of the pre-order weapons since the new people will be wanting to get a similar weapon ASAP after joining the game. The very nice weapon or tool that we get to select as a Pre-Order customer is a great bonus for us that had faith in the game before the rest of the population. Why someone would want to have it nerfed is unbelieveable.

[Haunt]

Can you please provide data to support your assertion that 80% of the population will order the game on the 15th or after?

Call Gamestop or Best Buy and ask them the number of pre-orders they typically get for the next big game and then ask them how many they sell after that. I had a conversation with the owner of my local Gamestop and those were the numbers he quoted to me (well actually he said 10-15% pre-order). We were talking about DC Universe at the time, but he said that is typical with most Pre-order games.

It actually went up from about 5% when Pre-Order offered you very little or no incentives back in the day. The inclusion of things like special weapons and mounts and binding equipment in pre-order games is slowly increasing the percent of population that pre-orders. That is why I estimated high and said 15-20 %.

[Vicid]

This is one of the issues that has to be solved before launch.

At the moment buildings don't matter. Tribes are safe zones so there's no real point in building walls. Houses don't do anything so they're vanity.

Thus things that require building (masonry etc) is worthless

Armor is useless especially with overpowered starter weapons

Weapon crafting is useless for the same reason.

Savaging is useless because there's nothing worth crafting (see above)

The only thing you need is basketry to hold food and fishing/foraging to get food. That's it. Someone please tell me the point of anything else now.

Removing/heavily nurfing starter weps will give reason to craft/reason to fight over resources. While we wait for tribal wars to start there's nothing else worth doing.

[djext2000]

How many people have used pristine quality high lvl made weapons? Is there someone who has compared the two in field tests? Do we even know, or is this just based on starting players using QL 30-40 armor/weapons in comparison?

Ok, I'll ask the question again. Anyone?

[Proto]

You are not one shotting people. /Facepalm

It's true, extensive testing was compiled.

[Dubanka]

Enough false promises already, they better not take away or nerf our pre-order weapons now too. And it better not decay, right now it is about the only benefit I have received for pre-ordering this game.

Fix armor, if it protected you, the weapon would not be an issue. This game is about realism, 2 hits from a super sharp axe would kill almost anyone not wearing armor. In fact it would probably only take one. A dull stubby axe would still kill someone in 3-5 hits, as it does now.

The weapons need no adjustment to dmg, but protection from those weapons (ie. armor) needs to be implemented and working.

Personnally, i just don't want to hear, "...man the only reason you won was because you have PO weapons..."

It's a sandbox. Everyone should have the same level of opportunity.

I think getting a temporary edge out of the gates for dealing the pain and suffering that has been the PO experience is fine, i don't think that edge should translate to a long term major advantage over a player that didn't. Furthermore, I think its a disservice to the pvp crowd...in most successful pvp games, pvp is about more than just runnign and ganking...politics, logistics, organization, all come into play. By putting weapns into play that outclass anything a player iwll be able to make (for a while), and any armor they will be able to make to mitigate the damage (for a while, assuming it even gets fixed), the pvp experience is getting extremely dumbed down.

This is again, all assuming they get combat mechanics working in a functional manner :/

and yes, we have confirmed reports of one shotting :p

[Honelith]

Another thing that bothers me is how WEAK the animals are with these overpowered preorder weapons. Please reduce the preorder weapon damage.

[Haunt]

We deserve to have something that allows us to be rewarded for putting our faith in the game and pre-ordering. In no time their will be a huge influx of new people that will keep weapon crafters in business. And eventually they will be giving them even more business because they will want those better weapons. Add armor having an effect and you have a PO weapon that is only great against a naked person, and it should be.

I bought two accounts, the second one I bought after I saw how great the PO weapon was, I did this because I have a few friends that refused to pre-order, but I know they are gong to regret it. I will be asking for a refund on that 2nd account for sure if they are nerfed.

[BigCountry]

We deserve to have something that allows us to be rewarded for putting our faith in the game and pre-ordering. In no time their will be a huge influx of new people that will keep weapon crafters in business. And eventually they will be giving them even more business because they will want those better weapons. Add armor having an effect and you have a PO weapon that is only great against a naked person, and it should be.

I bought two accounts, the second one I bought after I saw how great the PO weapon was, I did this because I have a few friends that refused to pre-order, but I know they are gong to regret it. I will be asking for a refund on that 2nd account for sure if they are nerfed.

/this

End thread.
:D

[Haunt]

Another thing that bothers me is how WEAK the animals are with these overpowered preorder weapons. Please reduce the preorder weapon damage.

The weapons need no adjustment to dmg, but protection from those weapons (ie. armor) needs to be implemented and working. As far as animals go, even a bear is going down after I whack it with a well crafted axe 4 times.

[Dubanka]

We deserve to have something that allows us to be rewarded for putting our faith in the game and pre-ordering. In no time their will be a huge influx of new people that will keep weapon crafters in business. And eventually they will be giving them even more business because they will want those better weapons. Add armor having an effect and you have a PO weapon that is only great against a naked person, and it should be.

I bought two accounts, the second one I bought after I saw how great the PO weapon was, I did this because I have a few friends that refused to pre-order, but I know they are gong to regret it. I will be asking for a refund on that 2nd account for sure if they are nerfed.

well i guess the true measure will come when we see the combat mechancis fixed.
I agree that we shoudl get something for our efforts/tolerance...i've just never been a fan of a 'best' solution to anything.

[Haunt]

well i guess the true measure will come when we see the combat mechancis fixed.
I agree that we shoudl get something for our efforts/tolerance...i've just never been a fan of a 'best' solution to anything.

Agreed, if armor doesn't slow them down, then perhaps they will need a rework. Honestly though, the whole combat system needs to be slowed down and more deliberate. Right now is it spamming mouse buttons and circling around in sprinting fits.

[Haphazard]

Scenario 1: Player with no PO weapon uses his starter weapon on another naked player - will take about 5-10 hits to kill him.

Scenario 2: Player with PO weapon uses it on a naked player - 1-3 hits to kill

Scenario 3: Player with PO weapon uses it on an armored player - 5-10 hits to kill??

Scenario 4: Player with no PO weapon uses it on an armored player - 15-30 hits to kill?

Do these ratios make sense to you all?

Personally, I don't really mind the power ratio of the PO weapon to the starter weapon, I just think that the players and mobs should have 1 or 2 more "hits" worth of hitpoints. Combat isnt really very fun when you basically die before you have a chance to react to being attacked. By increasing the life pool, this will allow armor and resists to have a bigger impact, and will also give enough leeway for when "healing" comes into the game, and not make ranged combat OP which it will be when it comes in if the same dmg/life ratio persists.

Yes, Haunt, you are right, the combat HP/damage ratio is "realistic" but honestly realism in this case is not very good game design I think.

[BigCountry]

Agreed, if armor doesn't slow them down, then perhaps they will need a rework. Honestly though, the whole combat system needs to be slowed down and more deliberate. Right now is it spamming mouse buttons and circling around in sprinting fits.

I know. And we seem to have made a system out of it's ghettoness in voice comms...."ok you lie down gen stam, you 2 attack....don't hit each other!".
LOL

[Ikisis]

HAND TO HAND COMBAT BEATS THOSE STARTER WEAPONS JUST SAYING. HAND TO HAND NEEDS TO BE NERFED, THIS IS NOT A JOKE.
/agree


Enough false promises already, they better not take away or nerf our pre-order weapons now too. And it better not decay, right now it is about the only benefit I have received for pre-ordering this game.

Fix armor, if it protected you, the weapon would not be an issue. This game is about realism, 2 hits from a super sharp axe would kill almost anyone not wearing armor. In fact it would probably only take one. A dull stubby axe would still kill someone in 3-5 hits, as it does now.

The weapons need no adjustment to dmg, but protection from those weapons (ie. armor) needs to be implemented and working.

Agree totally, Unarmed is way to over powered mostly in the speed and no energy drain tbh.


Do you think the only people that play this game are going to be pre-order people? We are looking at about 15-20 % of the gaming audience right now. The other 80+ % that will flood in AFTER launch will give weapon crafters plenty of business. In fact a good weapon crafter will get MORE business because of the pre-order weapons since the new people will be wanting to get a similar weapon ASAP after joining the game. The very nice weapon or tool that we get to select as a Pre-Order customer is a great bonus for us that had faith in the game before the rest of the population. Why someone would want to have it nerfed is unbelieveable.
Agree 150%

[Vicid]

You really think there's going to be a ton of new players after March 15th? Why is that?

Do you think suddenly on March 15th the game will be 'done' and the vast majority of potential players are waiting until then? It won't be done, far from it and everyone knows it.

Is it for some other reason perhaps? I can't think of a reason for someone who wants to play this game not to preorder it now and play it early, learn how it works so when the final wipe comes they stand a chance.

After the game goes 'live' new players are going to be incredibly disadvantaged. Established tribes will have the land they've scouted out and everyone you run into will beat you in combat.

[Haunt]

You really think there's going to be a ton of new players after March 15th? Why is that?

Do you think suddenly on March 15th the game will be 'done' and the vast majority of potential players are waiting until then? It won't be done, far from it and everyone knows it.

Is it for some other reason perhaps? I can't think of a reason for someone who wants to play this game not to preorder it now and play it early, learn how it works so when the final wipe comes they stand a chance.

After the game goes 'live' new players are going to be incredibly disadvantaged. Established tribes will have the land they've scouted out and everyone you run into will beat you in combat.

I personally have 4 friends that have refused to pre-order, but if I get in the game and like it after launch, they will be joining me. I am sure there are 1000s of us that have people that we will refer to the game after launch. I am interested in Rift, but I choose to give Xsyon my money. I missed out in the pre-order of Rift because of it. But if Xsyon fails me, I will be joining Rift. I am sure their are tons of people that made the same choice as me, but decided to pre-order Rift and will come here if Rift doesn't live up to their expectations.

Bottom-line is if the developers deliver, people will come.

[Dubanka]

bump for relevance.

PO weapons need to be downgraded.

[Stevro]

Agreed , Just the fact that they are un lootable is reward enough for pre order they should do no more damage than a noob axe you can craft.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

You really think there's going to be a ton of new players after March 15th? Why is that?

Do you think suddenly on March 15th the game will be 'done' and the vast majority of potential players are waiting until then? It won't be done, far from it and everyone knows it.

Is it for some other reason perhaps? I can't think of a reason for someone who wants to play this game not to preorder it now and play it early, learn how it works so when the final wipe comes they stand a chance.

After the game goes 'live' new players are going to be incredibly disadvantaged. Established tribes will have the land they've scouted out and everyone you run into will beat you in combat.

I'd like to see them removed completely honestly. At least then people might trade weapons. We've tested it and a lvl 90+ weaponsmith can't make anything that matches the OP Starters

Many players in multi-gaming guilds will not purchase until the game is "worth it".

[jumpshot]

I wouldn't blink if they were just removed.

[Saolite]

I'd like to see them removed completely honestly. At least then people might trade weapons. We've tested it and a lvl 90+ weaponsmith can't make anything that matches the OP Starters

Many players in multi-gaming guilds will not purchase until the game is "worth it".


I wouldn't blink if they were just removed.

I agree. The starting weapons are extremely strong, and not only can they not be looted, I also think they do not degrade over time. It is a weapon that you will never have to replace, as it currently stands. And depending on your starting weapon, you will always be able to log, terraform, etc.

Fixing armor would help, but it does not solve the overall problem that it's a weapon you will never lose or have to replace, as current craftable weapons still don't compare.