Stick to your Guns!

[Mactavendish]

Please... Wise developer... Stick to your guns!

I keep reading that Jordi listens to the community and tries to adjust to the desires of the players.

That's very nice. But you also have a vision for the game.

I would hate to see this game become just another ho-hum rehash of the same things we all have been playing for years.

If you listen too much to the current ravings of alpha types, it could change your vision.

I personally love the ideas that have been stated for this game. I don't know whether safe zones/no safe zones is better. I really will accept whatever you decide to do, and roll with it. As long... as you stick to your vision.

Make the game too easy or hard and you could lose players... but you know that.

Find the things folks long for and you can have a long term winner.

I will accept what ever you do, happily and with gusto... if it's YOUR Vision.

[r4NGe]

Please... Wise developer... Stick to your guns!

I keep reading that Jordi listens to the community and tries to adjust to the desires of the players.

That's very nice. But you also have a vision for the game.

I would hate to see this game become just another ho-hum rehash of the same things we all have been playing for years.

If you listen too much to the current ravings of alpha types, it could change your vision.

I personally love the ideas that have been stated for this game. I don't know whether safe zones/no safe zones is better. I really will accept whatever you decide to do, and roll with it. As long... as you stick to your vision.

Make the game too easy or hard and you could lose players... but you know that.

Find the things folks long for and you can have a long term winner.

I will accept what ever you do, happily and with gusto... if it's YOUR Vision.

^^^^^^^^^
THIS...

but with pegasuses

[bruisie159]

Its true jooky changes his mind more often than his socks depending on which vocal minority he is trying to keep happy on any particular day. I've said it before but unfortunately I think he has a reputation now amongst the community for being easily swayed if u create enough posts about any particular issue.

[jumpshot]

Stick to your guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuns!!!

Forums are where vocal minorities ruin otherwise great games.

[FPrime]

Agreed.

I was happy to see that an email poll was used recently to gauge the community's thoughts on the saved totem issue (not that I really care much about how that issue turns out, just that I am glad to see it was an emailed poll instead of being buried amongst all the random trash that started filling up the forums).

I hope that email polls are used whenever they really need to get community input on a decision instead of listening to whoever shouts the loudest on the forums.

[Vicid]

preorder weapons make crafting worthless

[Yuyito]

You know, reading all the posts on the Xsyon forums makes me thing of SWG. I have read no better summary of why SWG failed than one provided by Henry Jenkins back in 2006. It is a little dated but I think it has some relevance to what's going on in Xsyon at the moment:

http://www.henryjenkins.org/2006/07/so_what_happened_to_star_wars.html

Sorry, couldn't get the link to work :(

[Proto]

Stick to your guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuns!!!

Forums are where vocal minorities ruin otherwise great games.

lol

[Jadzia]

To the OP :

You don't need to worry. Jordi does change his mind over minor issues but he never changes his vision about the game he wants to make. When he see that his original goals are in danger he does change things. I've seen some changes during the last year...let me list some.

At first he said tribe areas will be safe zone during 'early' Prelude. There were some loud people screaming about safe zones and how they will pwn others after these zones are gone...soon after this it was stated that tribe areas are safe during Prelude. The 'early' disappeared. In his latest massively interview he said tribe areas are safe zones in Xsyon. No Prelude, no early...just safe zones. Was it a mistake ? Who knows.

1 year ago this board was free from moderation. Virtus said that they didn't want to limit anyone, we are all adults anyway. Very soon the forum was flooded with insults and vulgarity. Seeing that Xsyon posted that it is not allowed, and rules and moderators were set in place.

After moving this new forum even more moderators and more strict rules came in place. It worked well till the beginning of February, when there was a big influx of new players. The forum was again flooded with insults, libels and forum wars. Some days later Xsyon implemented a really strict new ToS.

OP, I hope you can see the tendencies and it eases your mind :)

At the same time Jordi does want all of his customers to be happy with the game. He said several times that if there was a desire for servers with different PvP rulesets he would consider that. So it seems no one has to worry, if there are enough avid PvPers who want an FFA war server they will get it, while the more peaceful players will get a server with PvP with consequences and probably optional tribe wars.

[JCatano]

Jadzia -

For the 10th time... It was confirmed to me that he was only talking about during Prelude. After Prelude, safe zones are gone.

You need to ask for an alternate ruleset server, because currently, the idea is to have no tribe-area safe zones after Prelude with tribes needing to fend for themselves at that time. So, the latter would be the normal ruleset.

The FFA server isn't even what PvPers want... FFA implies no consequences at all. That would be a stupid idea by Jordi and a waste of resources. A lot of DF players came here partially because of consequences, since DF has none at the moment. People were simply asking for safe zones to be removed earlier and add-in the consequences that are supposed to happen. Safe zones are not going to be taken out earlier than planned, but will be eventually (unless you all keep "screaming" for a change that his original idea does not entail).

Yeah, stick to your guns, Jordi.

[Lerxst]

I made a similar post on another forum about this game and the hopes that they stick to a "master plan" of sorts and go with it, instead of folding to the whims of the community. You have my agreement on this!

[Chavoda]

Thread worth posting in. What sold the game to me was his vision, the feature list on the web page.

I think he's the type of developer that knowns how to ignore the early complaining and useless discussion about PvP and PvE were nobody incl me known the real facts off.
Discusions are always find to let him know how we curently see the development going, unfortunate most end flames between groups for and against mechanics that are not in the game nor confirmed to be.
Me.. I have a idea like everyone in my mind of how things might be in several months/ a year, But until something is in game and finished all that it are is idea's. Until that time I keep happily pointing out flaws in people's post about their complains, That is until i'm sick of it and just ignore the boards completely :P.

[Mactavendish]

My only real concern here is that the game not change away from it's fundamental core vision.

Things like safezones do not concern me all that much, as I knew this game had pvp and I am fully prepared for the possibility of their removal ( or not ).

I am concerned that in an attempt to keep "everyone" happy, The Devs will adjust the game away from what brought many here in the first place.

We have all seen that happen before many many times in other games. But the fact remains that there is a large population of players that love to craft and build things, and truly love the idea of a sandbox game where they can affect the "world" they play in. Those same players, ( although usually playing PVE games ) DO get tired of others that are bent on ruining others fun, and secretly desire for a bit o' payback. ;)

This game will be exactly what MANY players want. No need to worry about keeping a profitable amount of players.. that will happen all by itself, IF this game stays true to it's vision.

[FabricSoftener]

My concern here is that the developer is not the personality type that reaches beyond the moon when all he has is a toy rocket.

We all know the type, the guy who at a party gets all excited about his idea to build a new car with some clever widget and his excitement extends even to the next day with him claiming that investors will throw money his way because its such a brilliant idea.

Taking combat engine for example, 'oh yeah the MMO doesnt have a combat engine yet but we hired a guy to get that done it should be done in a few months'. Come on guys, the combat engine in an MMO? Isnt that like a huge part of most games in some cases the entire game?

Maybe I am wrong, combat in MMOs have been around for a long time so maybe they have 'plug and play' code now one can purchase, it wouldnt surprise me. however, without that as being an option I would think creating a combat engine for an MMO is still 'we are trying to proove we can do this' phase.

I think he has a solid framework around crafting and general game interaction but with that said considering how much is missing from the game at this stage a great deal of posters are making a great deal of assumptions and are worrying about a great deal of things that require their current assumptions to be accurate (namely that the game will get ever get to a phase where tweaking tribe/pvp rules will be even something worth talking about).

In short, lets all wait until combat is actually in the game and armour is actually helpful before getting to concerned about pvp rule set. I think we are still a good year away before its something even worth talking about.

[Mactavendish]

Possibly so, Fabric...

But it also seems pretty obvious that his vision was to make a great sandbox crafting and building game with a pvp element. Combat never has been his primary focus.

Granted combat is a part of almost all MMO's. But not ALL.

That's partly why I made this thread. You see, it's the players that have come here with the impression that this game is focused on pvp that cause my concern. Show me where the developer(s) have ever said that pvp was their focus. I have looked high and low and .. nope... not found that statement anywhere.

Wishing something is true does not make it true. This game was always focused on sandbox style crafting and building with a few unique aspects like terraforming... with a small bit of pvp added in because of the simulated environment. Namely, humans in a post-apocalyptic world, of course there will be fighting but quite frankly survival would be WAY more important to people in such a world than risking the possibility of losing their hard won belongings.

Look at this from the perspective of a real person in such an environment, and you will see his core vision. too many are looking at this from the perspective of MMORPG players looking for that next game to soothe their bordom jones.

I think perhaps some are looking at this all sideways.

[FabricSoftener]

Possibly so, Fabric...

But it also seems pretty obvious that his vision was to make a great sandbox crafting and building game with a pvp element. Combat never has been his primary focus.

Granted combat is a part of almost all MMO's. But not ALL.

That's partly why I made this thread. You see, it's the players that have come here with the impression that this game is focused on pvp that cause my concern. Show me where the developer(s) have ever said that pvp was their focus. I have looked high and low and .. nope... not found that statement anywhere.

Wishing something is true does not make it true. This game was always focused on sandbox style crafting and building with a few unique aspects like terraforming... with a small bit of pvp added in because of the simulated environment. Namely, humans in a post-apocalyptic world, of course there will be fighting but quite frankly survival would be WAY more important to people in such a world than risking the possibility of losing their hard won belongings.

Look at this from the perspective of a real person in such an environment, and you will see his core vision. too many are looking at this from the perspective of MMORPG players looking for that next game to soothe their bordom jones.

I think perhaps some are looking at this all sideways.

I agree.

My reply is somewhat derailing to that point.

It is amazing there are two factors here.

1. will the game as envision even ever happen
2. who in their right might thinks this game is going to be combat focused in the first place even if everything he says goes well without fail.

[Mitsarugii]

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/32-Conflict-Death-Consequences-and-Decisions

aslong as this system he describes comes into the game as its stated in the 1st post of the thread i will happily sit back quietly till launch and watch all the pvpers who want to "pillage and destroy" live with their choices of how they are going to play this game because eventually you know the good alligned tribes like the one i belong to will set up a "police force" of some sort that spends time hunting down evil players and killing them for their descisions

[coca]

preorder weapons make crafting worthless

unarmed combat that is quicker and does the same damage makes ANY weapon useless.

[Atmos]

unarmed combat that is quicker and does the same damage makes ANY weapon useless.


http://www.photoshopsupport.com/photoshop-blog/10/cs5-04/ib-blog/kapow/batman.jpg

[boomer0901]

You know, reading all the posts on the Xsyon forums makes me thing of SWG. I have read no better summary of why SWG failed than one provided by Henry Jenkins back in 2006. It is a little dated but I think it has some relevance to what's going on in Xsyon at the moment:

http://www.henryjenkins.org/2006/07/so_what_happened_to_star_wars.html

Sorry, couldn't get the link to work :(

Great article Yuyito, you would think with the current gaming population aging into their mid 30's the gaming companies would be trying to keep our business, this goes for console, PC gaming not just MMO's, sadly they are moving in excately the opposite direction with barely a thought for the older crowds. Which is why I plan on spending less and less money every year on gaming until the industry starts to get their act together.

A combination of games that are far to expensive, far to short, high on graphics low on quality/content, mostly broken on release and finally all games now have coop, MP on single players games that don't even need it, so instead of making a good single player game they make a crappy version of it with MP and coop. It's a very sad trend for a lot of us.

[Proto]

Possibly so, Fabric...

But it also seems pretty obvious that his vision was to make a great sandbox crafting and building game with a pvp element. Combat never has been his primary focus.

Granted combat is a part of almost all MMO's. But not ALL.

That's partly why I made this thread. You see, it's the players that have come here with the impression that this game is focused on pvp that cause my concern. Show me where the developer(s) have ever said that pvp was their focus. I have looked high and low and .. nope... not found that statement anywhere.

Wishing something is true does not make it true. This game was always focused on sandbox style crafting and building with a few unique aspects like terraforming... with a small bit of pvp added in because of the simulated environment. Namely, humans in a post-apocalyptic world, of course there will be fighting but quite frankly survival would be WAY more important to people in such a world than risking the possibility of losing their hard won belongings.

Look at this from the perspective of a real person in such an environment, and you will see his core vision. too many are looking at this from the perspective of MMORPG players looking for that next game to soothe their bordom jones.

I think perhaps some are looking at this all sideways.

I think you misunderstand the vocal PVPers here, none of us expect or believe that the guy developing this game has PVP as his main driving force in making this game, we simply recognize that this game has great potential BECAUSE his focus is on crafting, specifically cities, terraforming and the whole bit. We're just of the mind that if there's going to be pvp, it ought to be implemented in an effective manner. Why bother having PVP even as a minor feature if you're going to do a shitty job of implementing it? That goes for any feature, for instance in Shadowbane, pve was simply implemented as a means of getting a person to max level so they could pvp. There was absolutely no depth to it whatsoever and people lamented upon that fact when other, better PVE games came out. SB would have fared much better had they polished or implemented those secondary features better. Don't drink the juice others are pouring around the forums that all the PVPers want is the tears of noobs across the land, we're just advocating for an effective pvp system to complement the main focus features of the game.

Regarding your point of a post apocalyptic world, I must vehemently disagree with the scale of your assessment.

There will be lots of fighting. Resources will be finite, likely for an extended period of time, it will take many months, likely years for effective communities to be established in order to produce food and goods again. Scavenging is going to be at a premium, as you said survival is going to be paramount, well with finite resources, there will need to be a significant amount of fighting in order to establish resources for yourself or your group. Add into that the general feelings of fear, hatred, discontent...it's not going to be a bunch of people sitting around clinging to what little they have.

[Proto]

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/32-Conflict-Death-Consequences-and-Decisions

aslong as this system he describes comes into the game as its stated in the 1st post of the thread i will happily sit back quietly till launch and watch all the pvpers who want to "pillage and destroy" live with their choices of how they are going to play this game because eventually you know the good alligned tribes like the one i belong to will set up a "police force" of some sort that spends time hunting down evil players and killing them for their descisions

Good, to be honest us "evil" pkers are betting on the prospect of "good" guilds establishing a rapport with one another and coming to get us and hold us accountable. This is exactly what we're hoping for. :)