Land entitlement and the future

[NexAnima]

I don't know if anyone have ever asked the devs about this. Why was tribal/homestead land built in to the game as an entitlement instead of an award for hard work? Other then gathering 5 people, there's no labor in acquiring 220m of future land.

What scares me the most about this is it takes 5 people to become self significant if delegated properly. What is going to influence trade, I know for the first 6 month all my junk is getting surplussed in preparation of the impending shortage of junkpiles. Anyone in their right mind would do the same. Even with regional resources, there won't be much of a trade demand unless supplies for those are extremely limited and controllable.

This isn't a rant, just a question.

[ifireallymust]

I don't know if anyone have ever asked the devs about this. Why was tribal/homestead land built in to the game as an entitlement instead of an award for hard work? Other then gathering 5 people, there's no labor in acquiring 220m of future land.

What scares me the most about this is it takes 5 people to become self significant if delegated properly. What is going to influence trade, I know for the first 6 month all my junk is getting surplussed in preparation of the impending shortage of junkpiles. Anyone in their right mind would do the same. Even with regional resources, there won't be much of a trade demand unless supplies for those are extremely limited and controllable.

This isn't a rant, just a question.

Limiting and controlling absolutely essential supplies will limit gameplay to those that control them. While I wish we had options other than those junkpiles for crafting goods, right now, we really don't. Without them, the alternative is to kill anyone who looks like he might have something we need. That's it, there is nothing else. Nothing else to barter with, nothing to do in the game that doesn't require things off the junk pile. And I doubt it will stay that way for long, but until it changes, making those resources even more scarce will drive out a lot of players.

[yoori]

Most of(if not all) resources from scrap piles can be found through scavenging skill anywhere and they will probably be better quality. Gathering resources this way takes longer but it can be done. Scrap piles disapear very quickly and soon we'll have to trade for scavenged items.

We'll have to wait for game to go live to see how it will all look like. At first most trades will be probably between tribes and homesteads.

[ifireallymust]

Most of(if not all) resources from scrap piles can be found through scavenging skill anywhere and they will probably be better quality. Gathering resources this way takes longer but it can be done. Scrap piles disapear very quickly and soon we'll have to trade for scavenged items.

We'll have to wait for game to go live to see how it will all look like. At first most trades will be probably between tribes and homesteads.

I'm confused. I've yet to find anything scavenging anywhere except on a junk pile. What kind of scavenging skill are we talking here to make this viable? Because I could defiinitely be persuaded to move off the landfill heap if it's doable. Those things are ugly!

[yoori]

Well there is a scavenging skill in actions. I've found nails, cloth and other things you get only with scavenging and I mostly do it while exploring, not on a scrap pile. But with 5 in scav and low perception I find something in 1/15-20 tries.

[taurus1877]

yep, you can scavenge practically anywhere on the map. I have a better success rate when doing so on junk piles than just regular terrain. At 25 skill point into scavenging I avg 1/12-15 pulls on regular terrain and about 1/6-8 pulls on junk piles

[ifireallymust]

I've had it much higher than 25 (I think it was closer to 65) and never found anything not on a junk pile. And I had my perception at 70, too.

[tredo]

Here is an idea that I had posted in a different thread but I feel it ties in here just as well.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/4403-Land-totems-and-the-coming-launch-My-thoughts.?p=54538#post54538

[ifireallymust]

Here is an idea that I had posted in a different thread but I feel it ties in here just as well.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/4403-Land-totems-and-the-coming-launch-My-thoughts.?p=54538#post54538

I agree with all of it, too. But what could happen and I hope does happen in the near future doesn't apply to the next few weeks, and probably not to the next two or three months at least. So meanwhile, we've got to work with the way things are now. And reducing those all-important resources and making them controllable by a few tribes is the worst possible thing I could think of for everyone not in one of those tribes.

[djext2000]

People act like every big tribe is a bloodthirsty land baron who will KOS anyone that comes near "thier junk"...The junk piles are so big in various areas, I just don't see why people think there is this huge monopoly on a little square pile of junk. For christ's sake, maybe just make friends with the tribes that live around the junk piles...or better yet just ignore them. Say hi to em and go get your stuff. A lot of tribes are "good" aligned and could care less if you walk by and go scavenging.

[SigmaHyperion]

For what it's worth, people with good Scavenging skills are finding WAY, WAY more items just out in the middle of a field than I, with a low Scavenge, find in a Junk Pile. And it tends to be more useful items than the appropriately named "Junk" that comes out of the piles (that may or may not get a future need).

The only difference is that I almost never find anything while Scavenging while I at least find something when collecting off a Junk Pile. So the junk piles are useful for people to, for sure, find something. But don't seem entirely required to find materials. Not sure if the possibility of finding significant discrete items exists outside of junk piles though -- entire whole tools, the fabled "old saw blade", etc.

[ifireallymust]

For what it's worth, people with good Scavenging skills are finding WAY, WAY more items just out in the middle of a field than I, with a low Scavenge, find in a Junk Pile. And it tends to be more useful items than the appropriately named "Junk" that comes out of the piles (that may or may not get a future need).

The only difference is that I almost never find anything while Scavenging while I at least find something when collecting off a Junk Pile. So the junk piles are useful for people to, for sure, find something. But don't seem entirely required to find materials. Not sure if the possibility of finding significant discrete items exists outside of junk piles though -- entire whole tools, the fabled "old saw blade", etc.

Glad to hear it, even if I start out on a junk pile to craft and scavenge until my initial skills aren't terrible, that means I can move elsewhere well before prelude ends, and I will, even if the pile isn't depleted by then. I really like the entire North/North Western mountain range, and I would love to find a little flat spot way high up with a nice view.

[ifireallymust]

People act like every big tribe is a bloodthirsty land baron who will KOS anyone that comes near "thier junk"...The junk piles are so big in various areas, I just don't see why people think there is this huge monopoly on a little square pile of junk. For christ's sake, maybe just make friends with the tribes that live around the junk piles...or better yet just ignore them. Say hi to em and go get your stuff. A lot of tribes are "good" aligned and could care less if you walk by and go scavenging.

Well in that case, you won't object if it's the solo homesteaders and not the tribes who are chosen as 'keepers of the junk piles'. It's only fair, since we have a limited set of tools to work with, that tribes (who of course can share tools and work on crafting together and therefore already have a huge advantage in the game) be the ones to come make friends with us. A lot of solo players are also good aligned and could care less if you walk by and go scavenging. Just ignore us, alrighty?

Yeah, somehow I know that won't go over well with you or anyone else. And if you don't like to be in that position, please don't disregard the concerns of other people who also don't like to be in that position.

[djext2000]

Well in that case, you won't object if it's the solo homesteaders and not the tribes who are chosen as 'keepers of the junk piles'. It's only fair, since we have a limited set of tools to work with, that tribes (who of course can share tools and work on crafting together and therefore already have a huge advantage in the game) be the ones to come make friends with us. A lot of solo players are also good aligned and could care less if you walk by and go scavenging. Just ignore us, alrighty?

Yeah, somehow I know that won't go over well with you or anyone else. And if you don't like to be in that position, please don't disregard the concerns of other people who also don't like to be in that position.

Dude, why are you assuming anything about me?? I don't really care one way or the other what happens with land grabs or the like, and you can refer to other posts i've made elsewhere that are in line with that. THAT aside /rolleyes.... I agree, if homesteaders setup around piles before tribes can move in, then yes, the same thing applies. They should make friends with the homesteaders or ignore them. I'm not sure the same arguement or problem exists though in this direction, as a tribe can roll through 8-18 people deep if they wanted to and the best the homesteader could do would be to stand on his property and shake his fist...so the tribes don't have the same problem.

I just don't see why people think all these tribes are huge land sharks just waiting for someone to come near before they dice em up. In my area I have yet to see a large tribe be anything but friendly and helpful...to be honest, it's the solo guys and homesteaders I tend to have problems with...

[ifireallymust]

Dude, why are you assuming anything about me?? I don't really care one way or the other what happens with land grabs or the like, and you can refer to other posts i've made elsewhere that are in line with that. THAT aside /rolleyes.... I agree, if homesteaders setup around piles before tribes can move in, then yes, the same thing applies. They should make friends with the homesteaders or ignore them. I'm not sure the same arguement or problem exists though in this direction, as a tribe can roll through 8-18 people deep if they wanted to and the best the homesteader could do would be to stand on his property and shake his fist...so the tribes don't have the same problem.

I just don't see why people think all these tribes are huge land sharks just waiting for someone to come near before they dice em up. In my area I have yet to see a large tribe be anything but friendly and helpful...to be honest, it's the solo guys and homesteaders I tend to have problems with...

I have several reasons to think that many tribes are exactly that, both from experience with large guilds in previous games, snippets from this forum, and some in game observations. But I'm going to simplify things up instead of dipping my toes in those murky waters:

I assume human beings are going to act pretty much the way human beings always act in situations where their interests are opposed to someone else's interests and where the pressure of numbers or any other leverage might gain them some advantage over their rivals.

[djext2000]

Maybe you should look around at different starting areas and explore different junk piles then or something...because I have walked around approximatly half the lake, been through 3 major junk piles, and crossed through 5 or 6 huge tribal areas. Not ONCE, did I have anyone attack me, chase me off the junk piles, or even really care much that I was around other than to throw up a wave and keep running by me. I have gone into tribal areas to rest at fires and been offered fish, made small talk and kept moving. Again, in my own tribal area, the only problems I have had personally are from a handful of homestead gankers that jump people on the junkpile for kicks....the large Tribes in and around my own area are the freindliest bunch you could meet, and I've found that to be the case around the half of the lake I've travelled.

/shrug

[ifireallymust]

Maybe you should look around at different starting areas and explore different junk piles then or something...because I have walked around approximatly half the lake, been through 3 major junk piles, and crossed through 5 or 6 huge tribal areas. Not ONCE, did I have anyone attack me, chase me off the junk piles, or even really care much that I was around other than to throw up a wave and keep running by me. I have gone into tribal areas to rest at fires and been offered fish, made small talk and kept moving. Again, in my own tribal area, the only problems I have had personally are from a handful of homestead gankers that jump people on the junkpile for kicks....the large Tribes in and around my own area are the freindliest bunch you could meet, and I've found that to be the case around the half of the lake I've travelled.

/shrug

Well, if we're all so friendly, let's just start at the same time and rush to put down our totems whereever we see fit, and it will all sort itself out without any messy resource reduction, control, or head starts for big tribes, right? No worries!