why dont we start with great skills stats?

[shukes]

Ok why dont we all start as expert engineers etc? i might have been a master woodcrafter before the apocolypse, so why can't i choose to start as master in one of the skills?

It's almost like i have forgot what skills i used to have before the event!
I know we start of with a basic knowledge, but thats only the type of skills that human being would just already know...you know the basic survival skills!

[Phayz]

from the lore and story on the main website, most knowledge has been forgotten

You know nothing. You’ve forgotten the past and have yet to learn the future. You are a lost soul in a strange barren world with little more than the shirt on your back.

The way it reads was the war was long ago, and we were children, our forefathers may have retained the knowledge and skills but we were merely waifs, and scavenged to survive, now we must learn to build, and grow

[shukes]

from the lore and story on the main website, most knowledge has been forgotten

You know nothing. You’ve forgotten the past and have yet to learn the future. You are a lost soul in a strange barren world with little more than the shirt on your back.

I apologise for baiting here...but that was the answer i was waiting for.

So really at release every person who plays the game should be alone! they cant have a selective memory can they? you know the ones that forget all thier skills etc, but somehow seem to remember that they have nine other members of a tribe with them and also remember where thier home town is, so have a divine right to it.

Sorry for starting yet another tribe v homesteader thread up lol, just wanted to know what people thought of the argument when they considered the lore of the game.

To me the lore of the game is important and not just an afterthought. The lore of the game is the origonal vision of the game.

[shukes]

Just so we dont get confused by the way....I am a tribal member that still thinks homesteaders should start the same time as all of us and with the ability to place a totem too.
Phayz...i am a member of the same tribe :)

[Phayz]

argg.. bait and switch.

As for your alone theory, what about the possibility of the post war kids who make friends on the junk pile while scavenging for food, and deciding to join together for safety and comfort :)




And I also agree with the fact everyone should start at the same time

[Aethaeryn]

Well. . it is a game. In every other game people join guilds etc. without meeting in game by chance first. I actually had planned to play that way though. . start out solo. . see who is around and join up with whoever I liked most. That is what I have done in most games unless I transfered with a guild.

For guilds that transfered over there is no reason to think that they could not have met "before" the day that is represented by "launch". Now I would have loved it if there was no beta and everyone started the game somewhere randomly and there was no IM programs or e-mail or phones so that friends could not co-ordinate. . then they would have to meet the folks around them and decide how to get along even if they didn't like them ala Survivor. . . we could ask everyone to do that on the honour system and see what happens. Even when UO launched I was already in a guild from beta. . although they are so gross now ;)

Now back to your intention. . there are a lot of threads on this already. You apologize for baiting yet continue and apologize for creating "yet another" thread like this.

Oh wait your thread was about skills and stats. Not cool but I bit.

[shukes]

Well. . it is a game. In every other game people join guilds etc. without meeting in game by chance first. I actually had planned to play that way though. . start out solo. . see who is around and join up with whoever I liked most. That is what I have done in most games unless I transfered with a guild.

For guilds that transfered over there is no reason to think that they could not have met "before" the day that is represented by "launch". Now I would have loved it if there was no beta and everyone started the game somewhere randomly and there was no IM programs or e-mail or phones so that friends could not co-ordinate. . then they would have to meet the folks around them and decide how to get along even if they didn't like them ala Survivor. . . we could ask everyone to do that on the honour system and see what happens. Even when UO launched I was already in a guild from beta. . although they are so gross now ;)

Now back to your intention. . there are a lot of threads on this already. You apologize for baiting yet continue and apologize for creating "yet another" thread like this.

Oh wait your thread was about skills and stats. Not cool but I bit.

haha yes i apologised due to the touchy nature of the subject but wanted to hear a different side to the same argument neverless. Thank you for adding a decent twist to my argument.

Yes your right, the launch date does not necessarily mean the actual day after. And your right people could have formed these tribes before they set out to find thier own land. Maybe its me taking the post war a little bit too literal in my thinking that we are all alone to start!

[Aethaeryn]

Well I do think if it was possible to have a game launch were there were no online resources or maps. . no way to communicate outside of the game. . people would get that feeling back we all seem to be looking for. It is too bad.

[Larsa]

Ok why dont we all start as expert engineers etc? i might have been a master woodcrafter before the apocolypse, so why can't i choose to start as master in one of the skills?

It's almost like i have forgot what skills i used to have before the event!
I know we start of with a basic knowledge, but thats only the type of skills that human being would just already know...you know the basic survival skills!You do start as advanced crafter in one skill, the one that you picked during character creation. You already have 25 points in that skill and you know a number of recipes.

Do you want to start as advanced crafter in every craft?

[shukes]

You do start as advanced crafter in one skill, the one that you picked during character creation. You already have 25 points in that skill and you know a number of recipes.

Do you want to start as advanced crafter in every craft?

I think you misread the intention of my post friend :)

It was meant to start a different agnled discussion over the whole who starts with what conversation.
But in anser to your question....no i would prefer if we all started at skill level 1 in every skill, even totem making :) i prefer to do things the difficult way to be honest. i hate anything in games that makes mechainics easier...like headstarts for tribes!

Hey heres an idea!
Let tribes have thier headstarts to get thier favoured patch of land, but give the solo player immunity to pvp untill they are allowed to plant thier totems...that way they are not left vulnerable to losing everything before they have chance to start!

Had anyone thought of the fact that by not allowing homesteaders to plant at the start...they are also left very vulnerable to lose everything they own, as they have no place to set up home.

[FabricSoftener]

I think you misread the intention of my post friend :)

It was meant to start a different agnled discussion over the whole who starts with what conversation.
But in anser to your question....no i would prefer if we all started at skill level 1 in every skill, even totem making :) i prefer to do things the difficult way to be honest. i hate anything in games that makes mechainics easier...like headstarts for tribes!

Hey heres an idea!
Let tribes have thier headstarts to get thier favoured patch of land, but give the solo player immunity to pvp untill they are allowed to plant thier totems...that way they are not left vulnerable to losing everything before they have chance to start!

Had anyone thought of the fact that by not allowing homesteaders to plant at the start...they are also left very vulnerable to lose everything they own, as they have no place to set up home.

homestead aside for a moment it is true that you could lose all your tools and within an hour of game play find yourself requiring the assistance of others. Having said that, that can happen as a member of a large tribe too.

But even with that point aside the more important point I want to make is that its not realistically possible to create a game that allows solo players to do everything while at the same time having a system that is interdependent, regardless of what the developer might have stated or thinks.

The two forumlas are in direct opposition from each other and creating a balance between the advantages of group play with solo play is never an easy task.

Now, with that said, you do understand that homesteads actually provide a stronger advantage per person then tribes do, correct? Or have you thought that part thru?

[shukes]

homestead aside for a moment it is true that you could lose all your tools and within an hour of game play find yourself requiring the assistance of others. Having said that, that can happen as a member of a large tribe too.

But even with that point aside the more important point I want to make is that its not realistically possible to create a game that allows solo players to do everything while at the same time having a system that is interdependent, regardless of what the developer might have stated or thinks.

The two forumlas are in direct opposition from each other and creating a balance between the advantages of group play with solo play is never an easy task.

Now, with that said, you do understand that homesteads actually provide a stronger advantage per person then tribes do, correct? Or have you thought that part thru?

I have thought about a lot to be fair, but thats not to say i am not missing some important point! The only advantage i can see is that it is easier for them to find a patch to lay down thier totem. Where as for us players in a tribe we need to find a much larger pitch. But on the swing of things as a tribe member, once we have a patch our general gameplay becomes much easier......and thats our choice! as it is the homesteaders choice to take the harder solo route. So each has a advantage and a disadvantage.

As for your comments about setting up two seperate systems for each style.....i didnt think that one through did i haha! your 100% correct. i kind of popped that in as i was writing the post without thinking :)

[FabricSoftener]

I have thought about a lot to be fair, but thats not to say i am not missing some important point! The only advantage i can see is that it is easier for them to find a patch to lay down thier totem. Where as for us players in a tribe we need to find a much larger pitch. But on the swing of things as a tribe member, once we have a patch our general gameplay becomes much easier......and thats our choice! as it is the homesteaders choice to take the harder solo route. So each has a advantage and a disadvantage.

As for your comments about setting up two seperate systems for each style.....i didnt think that one through did i haha! your 100% correct. i kind of popped that in as i was writing the post without thinking :)

1. I didnt say we should set up two systems. I said the two systems are in direct opposition to each other and balancing is always going to be hard.

2. homestead provide more advantage than a full tribe totem per person in more than one way

[shukes]

1. I didnt say we should set up two systems. I said the two systems are in direct opposition to each other and balancing is always going to be hard.

2. homestead provide more advantage than a full tribe totem per person in more than one way

Sorry friend i meant i agreed with everything you said about having two different systems. It was me who didnt think that through.

2 How does a homestead provide more advantages? most threads just turn into a slanging match once they are about to shed light and trail of the important info.

[FabricSoftener]

Sorry friend i meant i agreed with everything you said about having two different systems. It was me who didnt think that through.

2 How does a homestead provide more advantages? most threads just turn into a slanging match once they are about to shed light and trail of the important info.

You have more land per person.
You have more flexiablity per person (because you dont have to go thru tribe approvals to build things like tents)
You are much more mobile to go from junk pile to junk pile both in when you want to move and how you move (these large tribes will be stuck in the location they select).

when you think about it if you want to be a strong pvp clan its painfully clear to me that the best approach is to have all your clan members have homesteads. You gain more overall land mass that way, you are much more mobile so you can travel from junk pile to junk pile and all your members have creative reign over their own land. It is the power player way to go

[shukes]

You have more land per person.
You have more flexiablity per person (because you dont have to go thru tribe approvals to build things like tents)
You are much more mobile to go from junk pile to junk pile both in when you want to move and how you move (these large tribes will be stuck in the location they select).

when you think about it if you want to be a strong pvp clan its painfully clear to me that the best approach is to have all your clan members have homesteads. You gain more overall land mass that way, you are much more mobile so you can travel from junk pile to junk pile and all your members have creative reign over their own land. It is the power player way to go

1; you may have more land per person, but you also only have your own resources to build with, so that land is mainly obsolete.

2; your assuming a tribe has strict regs...mine for instance gives free reign to do whatever you want. Thats simply the persons own choice for getting into a limiting tribe!

3; your not likely to have a junkpile in your safe area and are just as vulnerable as any other player when travelling to one out of your zone....being in a tribe or homestead makes no difference to this mechainic. Yes you are more mobile in moving your totem...but why would a tribe want to once they have set up?

and i am yet to find a land mass open enough to fit more than 4 homesteads that a tribe cant settle in. so if there is land untaken that is big enough for seperate homesteads to be set up close by...then there is already a tribe there.

I'm not saying i'm right or your wrong friend this is just my understanding of how it works and what i have experienced so far.

[FabricSoftener]

1; you may have more land per person, but you also only have your own resources to build with, so that land is mainly obsolete.

2; your assuming a tribe has strict regs...mine for instance gives free reign to do whatever you want. Thats simply the persons own choice for getting into a limiting tribe!

3; your not likely to have a junkpile in your safe area and are just as vulnerable as any other player when travelling to one out of your zone....being in a tribe or homestead makes no difference to this mechainic. Yes you are more mobile in moving your totem...but why would a tribe want to once they have set up?

and i am yet to find a land mass open enough to fit more than 4 homesteads that a tribe cant settle in. so if there is land untaken that is big enough for seperate homesteads to be set up close by...then there is already a tribe there.

I'm not saying i'm right or your wrong friend this is just my understanding of how it works and what i have experienced so far.

1. it takes the same amount of cloth to build a tent regardless of if you own a small part of land or the entire server. As it stands right now tents are just fluff anyway so its not like 'oh my god I need to build a tent for each homestead or I will lose the game!'

2. if your tribe doesnt have some level of rules on what structures can be built once the game goes live in short your little town is going to end up like a crack heads nightmare.

3. organizing the move of a medium to large clan is a nightmare compared to moving or leaving your 4 bins filled with cloth scraps you used to level up tailoring whenever you personally feel like it.

never the less, if you think the power gamers way to go for a clan is not to have homesteads all over the place then I suppose you have the right to that view point. I on the other hand....

[mindtrigger]

I apologise for baiting here...but that was the answer i was waiting for.

So really at release every person who plays the game should be alone! they cant have a selective memory can they? you know the ones that forget all thier skills etc, but somehow seem to remember that they have nine other members of a tribe with them and also remember where thier home town is, so have a divine right to it.

Sorry for starting yet another tribe v homesteader thread up lol, just wanted to know what people thought of the argument when they considered the lore of the game.

To me the lore of the game is important and not just an afterthought. The lore of the game is the origonal vision of the game.

Think of it this way:

You are a teen or fairly young adult. Your parents, or whoever raised you simply "survived" and kept your ass alive. They were not concerned with rebuilding society, they were concerned exclusively with food, shelter and protection. Most skills from the old world were no longer relevant in this situation, and so they were not practiced or passed on to you. Even if they had some relevant skills, there were usually no tools and very few resources available to facilitate their use.

Small groups of people began banding together and forming Tribes, for strength lies in numbers. Tribes happened across other Tribes, some friendly, some not and it has become necessary for people to establish some sort of order to keep the criminal tribes, the ones who are willing to take away your basic human rights to serve their own purpose, in check.

Having established some semblance of tenuous order, at least on their Tribal lands, it is now time for your generation to rebuild the human race. You know how to survive through hunting and foraging, but now you are going beyond survival and seeking advancement and evolution. Leaders and laws of the land will emerge, as well as those who will ignore both. Society will slowly begin rebuilding, and it will feel a lot like the wild west for decades to come. We are all starting over. Let’s hope we do a better job this time.

[mrcalhou]

I apologise for baiting here...but that was the answer i was waiting for.

So really at release every person who plays the game should be alone! they cant have a selective memory can they? you know the ones that forget all thier skills etc, but somehow seem to remember that they have nine other members of a tribe with them and also remember where thier home town is, so have a divine right to it.

Sorry for starting yet another tribe v homesteader thread up lol, just wanted to know what people thought of the argument when they considered the lore of the game.

To me the lore of the game is important and not just an afterthought. The lore of the game is the origonal vision of the game.

You could go watch the show Jeremiah to see how people can form communities while not knowing much after an apocalypse.

[mindtrigger]

Having made the above post, I'll ask you to think about this as well. In your own neighborhood, how many people do you think you could instantly transport into the wilderness, and they would survive? How many people who live on your street have skills that transfer into a survival and bushcraft scenario? In modern Western society, you probably mostly have people who work in offices or other non-industrial jobs. You will have a construction worker or two, maybe someone who can plant a garden, perhaps an auto mechanic or hobbyist, and maybe even an authority figure like a police officer.

Point being, most of the skills we use here in the west are useless in the woods. The percentage of people who would have transferable skills, along with the will to survive in such a scenario would be tiny at best. If you happen to be one of those people lucky enough to survive and you banded together with a group, you would have a seriously random group of people who's most likely reason for survival was not their skill set, but their mindset. Psychology is king in survival situations.

[Zephyr]

I apologise for baiting here...but that was the answer i was waiting for.

So really at release every person who plays the game should be alone! they cant have a selective memory can they? you know the ones that forget all thier skills etc, but somehow seem to remember that they have nine other members of a tribe with them and also remember where thier home town is, so have a divine right to it.

Sorry for starting yet another tribe v homesteader thread up lol, just wanted to know what people thought of the argument when they considered the lore of the game.

To me the lore of the game is important and not just an afterthought. The lore of the game is the origonal vision of the game.

You're free to roleplay your character meeting your fellow survivors for the first time and getting to know them. After reading these forums for a while, I kinda wish I could come down with a bad case of amnesia and forget some of the things I have seen here....

[shukes]

1. it takes the same amount of cloth to build a tent regardless of if you own a small part of land or the entire server. As it stands right now tents are just fluff anyway so its not like 'oh my god I need to build a tent for each homestead or I will lose the game!'

2. if your tribe doesnt have some level of rules on what structures can be built once the game goes live in short your little town is going to end up like a crack heads nightmare.

3. organizing the move of a medium to large clan is a nightmare compared to moving or leaving your 4 bins filled with cloth scraps you used to level up tailoring whenever you personally feel like it.

never the less, if you think the power gamers way to go for a clan is not to have homesteads all over the place then I suppose you have the right to that view point. I on the other hand....


friend none of your answers disprove anything i have have said or even offer a counter argument :)

1; the same rulea apply for a tribe there.

2; Thats just an opinion of the way your tribe or yourself need to structure. many tribes will flourish by starting adhoc then adding as they go along. its just a preference of each to thier own.

3; my tribe moved and it was simple...each person in the tribe looked after thier own stuff...exactly the same as a homesteader would need to alone...only difference was that once we settled, we had a lot more resources to play with as we had pretty much every skill you could need.

I have no opinion of " power gamers " whatsoever! i play games, i dont rush to max level and stuff. i take it as it comes and just enjoy games :)

But your right about my view point friend and i hope you respect the fact that i do have a right to it as i respect yours :)

[shukes]

Having made the above post, I'll ask you to think about this as well. In your own neighborhood, how many people do you think you could instantly transport into the wilderness, and they would survive? How many people who live on your street have skills that transfer into a survival and bushcraft scenario? In modern Western society, you probably mostly have people who work in offices or other non-industrial jobs. You will have a construction worker or two, maybe someone who can plant a garden, perhaps an auto mechanic or hobbyist, and maybe even an authority figure like a police officer.

Point being, most of the skills we use here in the west are useless in the woods. The percentage of people who would have transferable skills, along with the will to survive in such a scenario would be tiny at best. If you happen to be one of those people lucky enough to survive and you banded together with a group, you would have a seriously random group of people who's most likely reason for survival was not their skill set, but their mindset. Psychology is king in survival situations.

you raise a great point there!
Psychology will be the success factor in Xyson. Strengh of mind and not skills will set tribes/homesteaders and players appart.

Your right, we probably wouldnt have the skills needed for survival after an apocolypse. or rather most of us wouldnt.
haha us gamers would probably be the survivors as our mindset is to go with the simple important skills first and feed and shelter ourselves.

Games save lives!