Offical 2 servers thread

[Virtus]

If you have anything to say about the 2 servers please do it here. Any other threads will be locked. This is to keep the forums clean.

[Salvador4]

Glad to hear the endless bitching about pvp vs. carebearing will finally be over now.

[Bridger]

Question: will migration between servers (ever) be possible? For the record, I'm a confirmed citizen of Peace. ("Make plastic lashers, not war!") But I'm sure this question will surface and I wanted to get it out of the way.

Also for the record: I personally believe Jooky's reasons are adequate justification for the two-server split. (Not that he really has to justify his decisions.)

[Thradok]

Meh, I guess it's ok. I was worried about an EU/NA split, but this will probably work fine since they didn't plan to extend the mist anyway.

[Sultan]

he never said its Eu/Na

but u well split the pop of servers between crafters and pvpers

I don't want two servers i want one server so tribes wont split up

[cejay]

My personal opinion is that you've just created a total disaster.

You already have a small playerbase - which you have just split up.

You have a war server which no crafter will join, and so no real pvp guild will join (we need crafters).

So all the pvpers will join the peace server. You'll get splits within guilds (it's even happening in ours right now on TS), over which server to join.

You've ended up with what appears to be 2 different games, neither viable since neither work.

For me, 1 server. 2 servers makes the "sandbox" idea ridiculous, and splits your dev team on 2 different issue sets - assuming the war server even works.

Thanks however for removing the (again personal opinion) ridiculous save totems idea (and yes, we had a saved totem).

[Thradok]

he never said its Eu/Na

I know, that's why I said I WAS worried, but not anymore.

[Virtus]

Question: will migration between servers (ever) be possible? For the record, I'm a confirmed citizen of Peace. ("Make plastic lashers, not war!") But I'm sure this question will surface and I wanted to get it out of the way.

Since it will be final wipe people should join the server they wish to be on for the upcoming months. In the future it may be possible.

[baka77]

It's too bad the code's technical limits prevent one server. It's gonna be boring as shit on the Peace server after a month & everybody has their villages squared away. I guess the carebears will reap what they sow. On the flip side, if a new combat system isn't implemented soon the PvP'ers will leave for greener pastures. The War server could be a ghost town before prelude even concludes.

I smell a server merge down the road once the mists are lifted & prelude is over....but the fight for land on the combined server is gonna be UGLY.

I hope Jordi knows what he's doing...

[Furyk]

- Both servers will allow for PvP.
- Both servers will retain our anti-griefing policies.
- Both servers will start off the same and change over time.
- Both servers will evolve with the player community.
- Players will have the option to create characters on both servers.

The War server will have safe zones removed during the Prelude. The plan is to evolve this server to focus more on tribal warfare and conquest as quickly as possible.

The Peace server will retain its safe zones with tribes having the options to engage in tribal warfare or allow PvP on tribal lands. This server will evolve more for the crafting and building community.


I guess my question is : what kind of timeline are we looking at on the War server to remove the starting safezones?

1 week? 1 month? another survey for the War community to decide the date its removed?

[STAR_GOD]

pvp server with no gates implemented yet?

[Hopibear]

Sjees... i am thinking for a refund..
Amazing gameconcept.. going to be ruined.
As a real pvper i need crafters to help me... and crafters need my help as well.

I dont just want a pvp server without crafters... we need carebears!!
<--- probably refund

[Drevar]

I don't think the two server solution will make much difference. I firmly believe that the majority of players will choose the Peace server, negating any benefits of a split population while the War server will suffer due to a lack of vict..er players.

Just my opinion.

I smell a new poll ;)

Drev

[wolfmoonstrike]

The first question I have is, do we have a big enough playerbase to support 2 servers?

Second is, does the war server have any sort of safe zones? Will it start out with safe zones and they just drop sooner? IF there are no safe zones how fast will walls be destroyed?

[STAR_GOD]

so basicly if u want war in pve you need agreement wetween two leaders... Honestly this game is about to fail and I am as half of our tribe thinking for refund...

[Sultan]

Can we have a explanation on how the war server and wars well be on there ?

[STAR_GOD]

The Peace server will retain its safe zones with tribes having the options to engage in tribal warfare or allow PvP on tribal land

Is that sanbox having optional tribe warfare? you got to be kidding me

[Dubanka]

Just going to end up with one live and one dead server...imo.

But, we'll see.

[wolfmoonstrike]

One more question is will there be enough devs to build two different game types and get updates out in a timely manner?

[JCatano]

I'm completely fine with that decision as long as the War server has consequences, too. We didn't ask for an "FFA" server, Jordi... Just one that didn't have safe zones in tribe areas for Prelude.

Are safe zones going to be removed on the Peace server after Prelude? If so, my tribe may still want to play there.

[Klecko]

I have a problem.I dont want to play on War or Peace.I want to play on something in the middle.

[Treepoet]

The Peace server will retain its safe zones with tribes having the options to engage in tribal warfare or allow PvP on tribal land

Is that sanbox having optional tribe warfare? you got to be kidding me

It was people like you, tribes like yours, that caused this divergence in rulesets. Now that you have your War server, why are you guys so quickly going back on your word of uberness and ultima-PVPbility and caring at all about what will happen on the Peace server? Shouldn't your awesome ability to defend your Tribelands be promise enough for your "carebear crafters" to not worry about switching to the War server? What's going on here?

I'm sorry, but all I'm trying to say here is that I find it silly for people to go against what they initially seemed to desire.

[Sorakin]

I'm completely fine with that decision as long as the War server has consequences, too. We didn't ask for an "FFA" server, Jordi... Just one that didn't have safe zones in tribe areas for Prelude.

Are safe zones going to be removed on the Peace server after Prelude? If so, my tribe may still want to play there.

^ This, I don't see the PvE server lasting long without durability wear and more open tribal conflicts.

[Virtus]

pvp server with no gates implemented yet?

Both servers will start out the same. However, the war server will have save zones removed during prelude

[Tandarie]

My personal opinion is that you've just created a total disaster.

You already have a small playerbase - which you have just split up.

You have a war server which no crafter will join, and so no real pvp guild will join (we need crafters).

So all the pvpers will join the peace server. You'll get splits within guilds (it's even happening in ours right now on TS), over which server to join.

You've ended up with what appears to be 2 different games, neither viable since neither work.

For me, 1 server. 2 servers makes the "sandbox" idea ridiculous, and splits your dev team on 2 different issue sets - assuming the war server even works.

Thanks however for removing the (again personal opinion) ridiculous save totems idea (and yes, we had a saved totem).

Wrong....


I will very happily play the one with PVP but with safe zones. Surely you have your own crafters in your pvp guilds?? Exactly who were you planing on getting your gear and weapons from? ( if you don't just run around naked)

I am going to be a crafter/hunter mostly and my policy is I'm not going to deal with known griefers. PVPers are a different story IMO. Some people are in lawful guilds that go hunt down the griefers.

I find it funny how there wont be any weaklings on the War server so NOW youre bitchin.

[cejay]

There seems to be a huge amount of Pandemic posting here - this may be timezone issues, but.

Yeah, I know lots of the origional playerbase hates us, however if you need to take a game to a sucessful level, you need to cater to the playerbase.

Now, I know from IRL experience that a normal MMO playerbase is 90% PvE and 10% PvP (roughly).

If Notorious wish to cater to the majority, please just say so - we will understand, and all the PvPers will get a refund and go play a different game.

If Notorious do wish to cater to the 10% that is PvP, please do so in a way that makes PvP viable in your sandbox game, rather than craeting a server that is "for PvP" that no intelligent PvPer would join (thus constricting us to consential PvP - ie PvE).

Yeah, our clan took all of 10 minutes to decide for refund or Peace. Worrying if were the "worst" griefers etc in the game.

[Armand]

With no mechanics to accommodate both play styles, I can understand the move, as deplorable as it is.

Seems it's either safe zones or no safe zones at this point.


I look forward to the end of prelude, and hope it delivers. In the meantime, I hope a good portion of PvPers decide to rough it out with us on peace. As an anti-PKer, I don't wish to see all the thrill vanish with this move.

[Hopibear]

Man .. i am very unsatisfied about this 2 server concept...
VERY!!!!1

[wolfmoonstrike]

Both servers will start out the same. However, the war server will have save zones removed during prelude

How soon? Right off the bat? Or a couple weeks, months?

[Sultan]

Both servers will start out the same. However, the war server will have save zones removed during prelude

can u explain how well that work ?

how well u prevent a tribe from ganking another tribe?

if there well be constent ganking in tribe areas no crafters well want to play on war?

[cejay]

Wrong....


I will very happily play the one with PVP but with safe zones. Surely you have your own crafters in your pvp guilds?? Exactly who were you planing on getting your gear and weapons from? ( if you don't just run around naked)

I am going to be a crafter/hunter mostly and my policy is I'm not going to deal with known griefers. PVPers are a different story IMO. Some people are in lawful guilds that go hunt down the griefers.

I find it funny how there wont be any weaklings on the War server so NOW youre bitchin.

Please read the post - the War server has no safe zones, thus making your argument somewhat...invalid.

[Sorakin]

Cejay "normal MMOs" are roller coaster PvE rides, sandbox MMOs feel more like 70% PvP 30% PvE

[blake378]

well pvpers got what they wanted in the safezones being remove even though its on a seperate server you should be happy just go play there. same as for the crafters having a server they can play on it makes everyone happy so everyone got what they want just be happy and pick a server that has the changes you want.

[Virtus]

One more question is will there be enough devs to build two different game types and get updates out in a timely manner?

Both servers will be exactly the same, same exact content, only difference is that the WAR server will loose the safe zones during prelude.

The 2 servers had to be done for population reasons. It was not decided because they wanted to different game times

[Drevar]

It was people like you, tribes like yours, that caused this divergence in rulesets. Now that you have your War server, why are you guys so quickly going back on your word of uberness and ultima-PVPbility and caring at all about what will happen on the Peace server? Shouldn't your awesome ability to defend your Tribelands be promise enough for your "carebear crafters" to not worry about switching to the War server? What's going on here?

I'm sorry, but all I'm trying to say here is that I find it silly for people to go against what they initially seemed to desire.


QFT. They weren't ever really interested in fighting each other, just ganking the carebears and clueless newbs. Give em a fair fight against others who actually enjoy fighting and they threaten to bail. They don't want us carebears to craft in safezones, but they aren't uber enough to do what they say we should man up and do : protect our crafters with warriors.

[cejay]

I have a problem.I dont want to play on War or Peace.I want to play on something in the middle.

Actually, I 100% support this statement.

[datagoblin]

It was people like you, tribes like yours, that caused this divergence in rulesets. Now that you have your War server, why are you guys so quickly going back on your word of uberness and ultima-PVPbility and caring at all about what will happen on the Peace server? Shouldn't your awesome ability to defend your Tribelands be promise enough for your "carebear crafters" to not worry about switching to the War server? What's going on here?

I'm sorry, but all I'm trying to say here is that I find it silly for people to go against what they initially seemed to desire.



Erase the hate buddy...Its totally uncalled for.

[mgilbrtsn]

I think this is a very bad idea. I think the game may have shot itself in the foot. I have a couple of questions which may or may not help me make sense of all this.

After prelude, Safety zones are going to go away and tribal warfare will begin. During this period, is warfare all consensual? or as I thought the political/territorial aspects would take over, But warfare was solidly in?

If Yes is the answer. I have no problems and I will join the Peace server, because that was the original intent behind the game.
If the answer is know. Then I have to re-evaluate the game

I believe that 99% of the ppl are going to choose the PVE server and not the PVP server regardless, thus making for a very poor gaming experience for those players. We've spoken with many from the major tribes and they will be going on the PVE server.

I would rather deal with a bit of a crowded area until some of the mist can be lifted then this two server business.

Please put up an official poll, because I think that you will find that your community does not want this. In fact the other polls about splitting up servers where overwhelmingly no.

nononononononononononononon 2 servers.

[cejay]

Cejay "normal MMOs" are roller coaster PvE rides, sandbox MMOs feel more like 70% PvP 30% PvE

True, I was going on general industry averages.

[Shukano]

^ This, I don't see the PvE server lasting long without durability wear and more open tribal conflicts.

I see the opposite happening. Once people get tired of the War server they'll migrate to the Peace server. PvPers tend to get bored more quickly than the crafters who have no problem playing on a server for years even if they never have to get into combat. Thus, griefers will have no satisfaction if they cannot prey on helpless victims, so they'll follow them to what ever server to go to. The War server won't last long because of this...
Dividing the community is not favorable in pretty much all aspects of life...

[Phayz]

Please read the post - the War server has no safe zones, thus making your argument somewhat...invalid.

Actually yes it does, the safe zones will be removed "during" prelude :)

The War server will have safe zones removed during the Prelude. The plan is to evolve this server to focus more on tribal warfare and conquest as quickly as possible.

[cejay]

Both servers will be exactly the same, same exact content, only difference is that the WAR server will loose the safe zones during prelude.

The 2 servers had to be done for population reasons. It was not decided because they wanted to different game times

So ok, we have to have 2 servers because your marketing was better than expected. That is honestly great news - GJ.

However, why should the servers differ in rulesets?

[Sultan]

Both servers will be exactly the same, same exact content, only difference is that the WAR server will loose the safe zones during prelude.

The 2 servers had to be done for population reasons. It was not decided because they wanted to different game times

ok i understand that but how is it going to work ?

constent ganking constent fighting ?

how is wars going to be done ?

[JCatano]

Virtus -

Will the Peace server have safe zones removed after Prelude or will the areas always be optional and safe after that chapter ends?

[cejay]

Actually yes it does, the safe zones will be removed "during" prelude :)

The War server will have safe zones removed during the Prelude. The plan is to evolve this server to focus more on tribal warfare and conquest as quickly as possible.

Which could be 30 seconds in, 3 days in or 3 months.

Im actually frustrated because it's yet another major change without giving any real information about it.

[Treepoet]

Erase the hate buddy...Its totally uncalled for.

Any sense of hate that you may have picked up from my post is no different than the same sense of hate that I picked up from STAR_GOD toward Jordi and his decision. Stop attempting to make everyone out as your enemies.

[Tandarie]

There seems to be a huge amount of Pandemic posting here - this may be timezone issues, but.

Yeah, I know lots of the origional playerbase hates us, however if you need to take a game to a sucessful level, you need to cater to the playerbase.

Now, I know from IRL experience that a normal MMO playerbase is 90% PvE and 10% PvP (roughly).

If Notorious wish to cater to the majority, please just say so - we will understand, and all the PvPers will get a refund and go play a different game.

If Notorious do wish to cater to the 10% that is PvP, please do so in a way that makes PvP viable in your sandbox game, rather than craeting a server that is "for PvP" that no intelligent PvPer would join (thus constricting us to consential PvP - ie PvE).

Yeah, our clan took all of 10 minutes to decide for refund or Peace. Worrying if were the "worst" griefers etc in the game.

WTF are you talking about?? The whole reason there is 2 servers is because pvpers complained about it RELENTLESSLY. He did cater to you! The whole plan was to have prelude last for 9 months with the safe zones in place. * shrugs * I don't get it.

I don't really see it being a problem.. who's to say some of our evil pvp tribes we have now will choose to remain on the Peace server until the end of prelude. In any case if your numbers are right and 90% are carebears then I guess he choose wisely. Stop threatening with refunds because I will tell you this much .. if he took out pvp all together added some evil bears or zombies that attacked people on a regular bases and called it SimCarebears he would have a billion people playing it. This game is that good.

[Sorakin]

As a crafter/scavenger I find the idea of the PvE server to be fairly boring.

[datagoblin]

Any sense of hate that you may have picked up from my post is no different than the same sense of hate that I picked up from STAR_GOD toward Jordi and his decision. Stop attempting to make everyone out as your enemies.

Basically your saying I am doing what you were doing in regards to Star_God...Either way, fair enough...*BIG WARM FUZZY HUG* BFF! :) There ya go...Now back to the original topic at hand.

[cejay]

Actually, this is just not thought through.

Please give us more information:

Time that War and Peace safe zones will go down.

Any ruleset differences between the two other than that.

Why in THE WORLD would you let people make characters on both - other than to let carebears PvP (EDIT:grief)?

As it stands, your playerbase will *at best* split 80/20 - this still overcrowding Peace.

Any communication would be appreciated.

[bluenose]

Virtus -

Will the Peace server have safe zones removed after Prelude or will the areas always be optional and safe after that chapter ends?

I want to know same.

[Sultan]

idk war or peace

but i want to know how is the War server war system going work ?

[Tandarie]

Please read the post - the War server has no safe zones, thus making your argument somewhat...invalid.


Wrong.. there will still be PVP on the Peace server.. The only thing that is different is that we will have safezones on our tribes and homesteads so you can't gank us while we are crafting. So basically like it is right now.

[baka77]

The 2 servers had to be done for population reasons. It was not decided because they wanted to different game times

Virtus, I understand that you guys need to split the population for technical reasons. However, you may REALLY want to reconsider giving them different rule sets. It gives the impression that your motives are something different entirely. I think people would accept two identical servers MUCH more than trying to put pvpers & carebears in their own little areas.

[Badaboom]

War it is!!

[Armand]

As a crafter/scavenger I find the idea of the PvE server to be fairly boring.


Funny thing is there isn't even an E for us to focus on. Are we supposed to duke it out with the 12 bears on the server all day long?

[JCatano]

idk war or peace

but i want to know how is the War server war system going work ?

There is no system, yet.

He needs to get to it quickly, though.

We did not ask for an FFA server. I don't think he understood what the "PvP'ers" wanted.

[Tandarie]

Funny thing is there isn't even an E for us to focus on. Are we supposed to duke it out with the 12 bears on the server all day long?

You do realize there is still going to be PVP on the peace server but it will just have safezones right?

[Virtus]

I am asking for a clear answer, please stand by

[Treepoet]

Actually, this is just not thought through.

As it stands, your playerbase will *at best* split 80/20 - this still overcrowding Peace.


In my opinion, I think that it can be viewed as "not thought through" because that's exactly what it is. It was never intended in the original design (AFAIK), but is the result of Jordi (and the other decision-makers) doing his / their best to make everyone satisfied and enjoy the game in the way that they wish. He thought that players wanted a server without safezones immediately, and why shouldn't he have? They've got it, but now they have to understand that the game was not ready for safe zones to be removed this early on, so what they are going to have at launch is going to be the chaos that they were dreaming of. Unfinished, unrefined, unintended chaos that will take time to make work.

Or maybe there will be peace on the war server? Player-made peace... Sounds sandboxy to me.

[wolfmoonstrike]

Update March 4

Hello everyone!

Before arguments get out of hand I will make some sure things are clear up front. I see already many misconceptions about the War and Peace servers.

- Both servers will start off the same.
- Both will have PvP with consequences.
- The Peace server is not a PvE server.
- Safe zones will be removed during the prelude on the War server when towns can defend themselves. This is not a Chaos or griefer server, but a server for players that want tribal warfare and conquest.
- The differences between servers will be slight. This will not require a lot of additional development, just a matter of settings and switches in the code.
- Both servers will evolve with each player base. The plan is and will always be to evolve with what the player base wants.
- The servers are an option. You can play on both if you like.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/1440-Xsyon-Updates

[JCatano]

Virtus, I understand that you guys need to split the population for technical reasons. However, you may REALLY want to reconsider giving them different rule sets. It gives the impression that your motives are something different entirely. I think people would accept two identical servers MUCH more than trying to put pvpers & carebears in their own little areas.

I have a funny feeling that the hosts and/or the game code cannot handle too many people. I did a WhoIs to the server and the two companies it could be don't look very impressive to me. So, it could be that.... It could be the code... It could be both.

Hope I'm wrong!

[baka77]

LOL, this is actually sort of hilarious.

Jordi needs us to be on 2 servers due to technical limitations, but the way he has set it up just about guarantees that the split will be 90/10 rather than the 50/50 he needs.

Classic blunder, though luckily not too late to change it.

[Drevar]

It isn't a lack of bears, they are there, just all pushed into the green mist due to the number of homesteads and tribes in the initial area. There is no room for the breeding mechanics to kick in as they are constantly migrating out. This is one of the major reasons for two servers.

I would second the idea of having both be based on the same ruleset. Less work for devs, and less chance of a wildly imbalanced split of players.


Drev

[cejay]

In my opinion, I think that it can be viewed as "not thought through" because that's exactly what it is. It was never intended in the original design (AFAIK), but is the result of Jordi (and the other decision-makers) doing his / their best to make everyone satisfied and enjoy the game in the way that they wish. He thought that players wanted a server without safezones immediately, and why shouldn't he have? They've got it, but now they have to understand that the game was not ready for safe zones to be removed this early on, so what they are going to have at launch is going to be the chaos that they were dreaming of. Unfinished, unrefined, unintended chaos, that will take time to make work.

Sorry, I don't understand why you posted.

I could rant on this but I won't, because to be honest your previous posts in the thread have hardly been well minded and balanced.

Everyone wants to play the game we were sold - lets wait for the answer.

[cejay]

Update March 4

- The servers are an option. You can play on both if you like.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/1440-Xsyon-Updates

Many thanks we now have more info. Please however do NOT implement this. It will lead to griefing.

[JCatano]

I am asking for a clear answer, please stand by

If his last update was an answer... It didn't answer the question.

Will the Peace server have safe zones removed after Prelude or are they permanent? If the latter, easy choice for my tribe. If the former, a bit tougher.

[baka77]

Update March 4

Hello everyone!

Before arguments get out of hand I will make some sure things are clear up front. I see already many misconceptions about the War and Peace servers.

- Both servers will start off the same.
- Both will have PvP with consequences.
- The Peace server is not a PvE server.
- Safe zones will be removed during the prelude on the War server when towns can defend themselves. This is not a Chaos or griefer server, but a server for players that want tribal warfare and conquest.
- The differences between servers will be slight. This will not require a lot of additional development, just a matter of settings and switches in the code.
- Both servers will evolve with each player base. The plan is and will always be to evolve with what the player base wants.
- The servers are an option. You can play on both if you like.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/1440-Xsyon-Updates

Sadly, Jordi's intentions are not as important as people's perceptions when it comes to this matter. No matter how you slice it, given the current information we have Peace server is going to be mad over-populated & War is gonna be a ghost town.

[Jagsman32]

This forum is full of buffoons. What is confirmed now is that the population will grow since its now confirmed not a niche FFA PvP game. The PvPers will leave while the sandboxers will come.

PvP will still be on the peace servers just outside tribal zones (which can be changed by the tribal leader) and homesteads.

So basically,
Peace = the way the game is meant to be played, PvP, full loot, etc
War = Everyting above minus safe zones, a haven for whining pkers who will quit in a month

Nice job development team. I commend this decision. It is unfortunate you will have to close down the War server after a month or two, but its the only way to get those PK whiners to shut up for now.

[Jagsman32]

Sadly, Jordi's intentions are not as important as people's perceptions when it comes to this matter. No matter how you slice it, given the current information we have Peace server is going to be mad over-populated & War is gonna be a ghost town.

I would rather have one overpopulated server and one underpopulated than one underpopulated server.

Good decision Dev team.

[cejay]

This forum is full of buffoons. What is confirmed now is that the population will grow since its now confirmed not a niche FFA PvP game. The PvPers will leave while the sandboxers will come.

PvP will still be on the peace servers just outside tribal zones (which can be changed by the tribal leader) and homesteads.

So basically,
Peace = the way the game is meant to be played, PvP, full loot, etc
War = Everyting above minus safe zones, a haven for whining pkers who will quit in a month

Nice job development team. I commend this decision. It is unfortunate you will have to close down the War server after a month or two, but its the only way to get those PK whiners to shut up for now.

Well, it does now have one buffoon. Hope you enjoy your minority of one. Everyone else on this thread is arguing sensibly and your just trolling. GJ.

[JCatano]

This forum is full of buffoons. What is confirmed now is that the population will grow since its now confirmed not a niche FFA PvP game. The PvPers will leave while the sandboxers will come.

PvP will still be on the peace servers just outside tribal zones (which can be changed by the tribal leader) and homesteads.

So basically,
Peace = the way the game is meant to be played, PvP, full loot, etc
War = Everyting above minus safe zones, a haven for whining pkers who will quit in a month

Nice job development team. I commend this decision. It is unfortunate you will have to close down the War server after a month or two, but its the only way to get those PK whiners to shut up for now.

Actually, the original idea was to have safe zones removed after Prelude. He confirmed that to me via PM (even though we already knew the situation a year ago).

I'm happy with 2 servers, unless safe zones are still going to be turned off after Prelude on the Peace server. If so, the split makes no sense at all.

[wolfmoonstrike]

@ Xsyon

Can we get a general time line on when safezones would go down for the war server? Yes I understand, that you answered in a way by saying when we can defend ourselves. But I'm hoping for a general area of time; like a week? 3 weeks? 2 months?

[AlexTaldren]

So the "War" server is for people who don't want to wait 6 months to have tribal warfare? And the "Peace" server is for people who want to wait 6 months? Why not just reduce the time until tribal warfare can start to 2-3 months after launch? Let's be honest, tribes are going to be well established by then anyway.

[Sultan]

I am asking for a clear answer, please stand by

ok i well w8 for this

becuase i realy want a explantion on how the war server well be

[cejay]

So the "War" server is for people who don't want to wait 6 months to have tribal warfare? And the "Peace" server is for people who want to wait 6 months? Why not just reduce the time until tribal warfare can start to 2-3 months after launch? Let's be honest, tribes are going to be well established by then anyway.

Although it kills me inside to agree with this, I do.

[STAR_GOD]

MY BIGEST PROBLEMS IS YOU ALLOW PEOPLE TO MAKE A TOON PER SERVER! NOW IF YOU PLAY PVE AND GET BORED YOU LOG IN AND GO GANKING INTO PVP POINTLESSLY

[GuideMihr]

Sjees... i am thinking for a refund..
Amazing gameconcept.. going to be ruined.
As a real pvper i need crafters to help me... and crafters need my help as well.

I dont just want a pvp server without crafters... we need carebears!!
<--- probably refund

(Guidemihr : I am sure was you hopibear who made the server crash )


Well hopibear why did you post that piece of conversation out of context? what is the purpose? Why did you delete the final (:) ) on that sentence? You know that was a joke and I don't understand you posting that here.

I don't want to start a discussion either,just to make things clear.

[Sultan]

So the "War" server is for people who don't want to wait 6 months to have tribal warfare? And the "Peace" server is for people who want to wait 6 months? Why not just reduce the time until tribal warfare can start to 2-3 months after launch? Let's be honest, tribes are going to be well established by then anyway.

I agree with you there Alex

[Sorakin]

So the "War" server is for people who don't want to wait 6 months to have tribal warfare? And the "Peace" server is for people who want to wait 6 months? Why not just reduce the time until tribal warfare can start to 2-3 months after launch? Let's be honest, tribes are going to be well established by then anyway.

^ This

[JCatano]

And... Where is this new server location at? Still in Chicago? Don't be afraid to move them west! ;)

[millsdo]

I hate the idea because I personally hate PVP but more so because the population of the game does not support two servers.

[Armand]

You do realize there is still going to be PVP on the peace server but it will just have safezones right?


You do realize bleeding out even a minority of PVPers will amount to us twiddling our thumbs significantly more, right?

[mrcalhou]

This is a mistake.

[datagoblin]

(Guidemihr : I am sure was you hopibear who made the server crash )


Well hopibear why did you post that piece of conversation out of context? what is the purpose? Why did you delete the final (:) ) on that sentence? You know that was a joke and I don't understand you posting that here.

I don't want to start a discussion either,just to make things clear.

The rest of us have a hard time understanding and figuring Hopibear out as well :) Welcome to the club!

[Jagsman32]

War is not going to last. The combat system is in shambles right now, and the crafters are going to remain on Peace. War's population will dwindle. This does not matter though, because by the time safe zones are removed from Peace, both servers will be essentially the same and both servers can be played normally. The only difference will be that Peace is going to be more developed and have a healthier population. Two servers are good anyway. I can anticipate in a few months Peace will probably be packed, so they may even add more servers if they can't get rid of the green mist quick enough.

[MrKrueak]

So the "War" server is for people who don't want to wait 6 months to have tribal warfare? And the "Peace" server is for people who want to wait 6 months? Why not just reduce the time until tribal warfare can start to 2-3 months after launch? Let's be honest, tribes are going to be well established by then anyway.

have you thought about the timeline being 6 to 9 months from now is to give them time to throughly implement and test combat and the tribal warfare system? for all we know there has been no coding period for tribal warfare and very little for combat itself.

either way on topic, i think 2 servers is the way to go if it is due to population issues however to avoid what some others are afraid of they should have the same rulesets. BUT jordi is simply trying to give what the pvpers of crafters want you cant fault the guy trying to make the most happy as he can.

[cejay]

The rest of us have a hard time understanding and figuring Hopibear out as well :) Welcome to the club!

TBH Hopibear is a will to his own - we just point him at enemies and let him swing his axe. We have learnt not to question whatever else he does :-)

[baka77]

My God...there are a lot of idiots not thinking this through.

XSYON NEEDS TWO SERVERS BECAUSE THE GAME CAN'T HANDLE OUR CURRENT POPULATION!!!

By implementing different rule sets, he's screwing himself over & will not get the desired effect of splitting the population.

The way he has set this up is ultimately bad for BOTH crafters & pvpers. Crafters will be on an overpopulated server that is more prone to lag, crashes, & no animal population. Pvpers will be on a ghost town that offers no metagaming or depth beyond killing.

Everyone loses.

[randmac]

I believe what is missing is a clear concise explanation of the rule-sets and timing on the two servers. It would be nice if that could be done. As well written as the Xsyon post it is, it leaves alot of unanswered questions.

[JCatano]

PvP'ers don't craft? How did I get 100 in 4-5 crafting lines in Darkfall?! Crazy!

[randomt]

I agree with the 2 server setup. He's giving both extremes of each group what they want, no?

I also agree that there are crafter types who want to also do full pvp.. of course there are.

[cejay]

My God...there are a lot of idiots not thinking this through.

XSYON NEEDS TWO SERVERS BECAUSE THE GAME CAN'T HANDLE OUR CURRENT POPULATION!!!

By implementing different rule sets, he's screwing himself over & will not get the desired effect of splitting the population.

The way he has set this up is ultimately bad for BOTH crafters & pvpers. Crafters will be on an overpopulated server that is more prone to lag, crashes, & no animal population. Pvpers will be on a ghost town that offers no metagaming or depth beyond killing.

Everyone loses.

I'm with cuddles on this one.

[Salvador4]

"People coming to Xsyon for PVP - I picture them in my mind as the catholic guy whipping himself in the Da Vinci Code"

[STAR_GOD]

My God...there are a lot of idiots not thinking this through.

XSYON NEEDS TWO SERVERS BECAUSE THE GAME CAN'T HANDLE OUR CURRENT POPULATION!!!

By implementing different rule sets, he's screwing himself over & will not get the desired effect of splitting the population.

The way he has set this up is ultimately bad for BOTH crafters & pvpers. Crafters will be on an overpopulated server that is more prone to lag, crashes, & no animal population. Pvpers will be on a ghost town that offers no metagaming or depth beyond killing.

Everyone loses.

AMEN!

[JCatano]

"People coming to Xsyon for PVP - I picture them in my mind as the catholic guy whipping himself in the Da Vinci Code"

Didn't Runescape have like 28989890905947954702795 people?

[r4NGe]

So the "War" server is for people who don't want to wait 6 months to have tribal warfare? And the "Peace" server is for people who want to wait 6 months? Why not just reduce the time until tribal warfare can start to 2-3 months after launch? Let's be honest, tribes are going to be well established by then anyway.

Read this again. It is the solution.

[cejay]

"People coming to Xsyon for PVP - I picture them in my mind as the catholic guy whipping himself in the Da Vinci Code"

Hey youd be pretty unimpressed if you visited a brothel as advertised, to find all that was on offer were gigaloes.

[STAR_GOD]

2 servers? to cut down population? There will be around 80% of people in pve server and 20% in pvp problem still exists

[mrcalhou]

My God...there are a lot of idiots not thinking this through.

XSYON NEEDS TWO SERVERS BECAUSE THE GAME CAN'T HANDLE OUR CURRENT POPULATION!!!

By implementing different rule sets, he's screwing himself over & will not get the desired effect of splitting the population.

The way he has set this up is ultimately bad for BOTH crafters & pvpers. Crafters will be on an overpopulated server that is more prone to lag, crashes, & no animal population. Pvpers will be on a ghost town that offers no metagaming or depth beyond killing.

Everyone loses.

No kidding.

[datagoblin]

This is an OUTRAGE!

http://www.rcscrapyard.bizland.com/clas_files/Kyosho-Outrage.jpg

[ifireallymust]

It seems three servers may be needed. Two PvE and one PvP. Or a population limit and a queue. I doubt it will be possible for players to roll on the PvE server on launch day, select a location, place a totem, log out, and then roll on the PvP server, because if it is possible, everyone will crowd first onto the PvE server and we'll all lag and crash again.

On a side note: It seems some members of the so-called PvP community are wimping out.

If the option to play on both servers will exist in the near future, I'll roll first on the PvP server and wait to roll a second character on the PvE server(s). I want to see if a solo player can build fortifications so intricate and so well-placed that a zerg can't overcome them, or at very least would have to spend so much time and effort in the invasion that it wouldn't be worthwhile to do so.

So I'll craft on the side for the PKer-killing Good tribes.

You evil tribes will have to bring your own crafters.

[Baldur]

I'm sorry, but this decision sucks big time... no other way to put it. I see many problems with having two servers, some of which are:

1) The whole issue behind safezones was that there were no tribal warfare mechanics, meaning you could hold your land just by virtue of being there first. The end goal of the PvP crowd was never just to be able to gank people in their tribe areas, but to make sure that politics play a key role in the world.

2) With no tribe vs tribe mechanics the fundamental issue is still left unanswered on the War server! So what, you can gank people on their land once they've dropped a totem, maybe grief them until they leave, but you still can't deal with the totem itself.

3) The War server will full of naked people killing each other, with nothing getting built, because anyone who wants to be able to walk away from their computer for 10 seconds without being killed will play on Peace. I don't think that anyone was asking for absolutely no safe zones at all, just a more thought out ruleset, such as having safe zones only in constructed buildings.

Xsyon should have made it very clear that the game would still be in beta until the end of prelude. If the answer to all these problems is that these things will come after Prelude, then don't make me pay a monthly fee for six months while the game gets beta tested to a state where it somewhat resembles what it was advertising!

So in conclusion: Two servers will kill the game. Or at least until people realize the 'War' server is the poorly thought out reactionary piece of garbage that it is.

[Jadzia]

I just got home and wow what a news. I'm very happy with this decision, one server for the players who want tribal wars and conflict, and a Peace server with optional tribal wars and safe zones.

[cejay]

I just got home and wow what a news. I'm very happy with this decision, one server for the players who want tribal wars and conflict, and a Peace server with optional tribal wars and safe zones.

I bet you are.

[datagoblin]

Damn, I'm so getting that for my eldest child (and then not letting him play with it cos I will)

You know you will have a huge dilemma...There will be two tracks you have to choose from to drive it on...Ones going to be chock full of racers, the other...Not so much. :)

[Hopibear]

I'm sorry, but this decision sucks big time... no other way to put it. I see many problems with having two servers, some of which are:

1) The whole issue behind safezones was that there were no tribal warfare mechanics, meaning you could hold your land just by virtue of being there first. The end goal of the PvP crowd was never just to be able to gank people in their tribe areas, but to make sure that politics play a key role in the world.

2) With no tribe vs tribe mechanics the fundamental issue is still left unanswered on the War server! So what, you can gank people on their land once they've dropped a totem, maybe grief them until they leave, but you still can't deal with the totem itself.

3) The War server will full of naked people killing each other, with nothing getting built, because anyone who wants to be able to walk away from their computer for 10 seconds without being killed will play on Peace. I don't think that anyone was asking for absolutely no safe zones at all, just a more thought out ruleset, such as having safe zones only in constructed buildings.

Xsyon should have made it very clear that the game would still be in beta until the end of prelude. If the answer to all these problems is that these things will come after Prelude, then don't make me pay a monthly fee for six months while the game gets beta tested to a state where it somewhat resembles what it was advertising!

So in conclusion: Two servers will kill the game. Or at least until people realize the 'War' server is the poorly thought out reactionary piece of garbage that it is.

I agree!!

[mindtrigger]

It's interesting. The part that bothers me slightly is where the development of the two servers will progress separately with community building features being pushed first on Peace and tribal warfare features being pushed first on War. At least this is how the update reads.

From a player's point of view, we now have to be concerned about whether or not we will have enough population to sustain two servers and have them remain interesting. I don't like the idea of the servers having different features available. The subject of Prelude safe zones shouldn't have resulted in this big of a move by the devs, IMO. I don't know about you guys but I liked the element of danger by having a healthy mix of PvP tribes with other styles. I hope Peace doesn't turn into a boring server because all the PvP players go to the War server.

Will this decision result in two server versions for the devs to maintain? Strictly from a developer's point of view, this introduces a lot more complexity to the task of coding the game itself if they will have two different server versions to maintain, as well as bug tracking, testing and removal being doubled. This isn't very wise for a tiny development team.
Thoughts?

[cejay]

Well guys, now Jad loves this new, um, change...I guess it's staying?

BTW is there any sort of real relationship IRL between Jad and any of the senior team? Not asking to be infmaitory, just asking....

(Sorry I realise this may be considered against the ToS but there about 30 of us thinking maybe :-))

[Sorakin]

This seems like quite the bandaid... reading all the posts it sounds like the biggest problem is there is no way to force someone else from an area because of 1: safe zones and 2: no way to get rid of the totem. Even if you get rid of the safezones #2 is still there. And the whole "need 2 servers due to population"... is that because the server cannot handle more people or because there are so many homestead totems forcing all the wildlife away.

Either way the fix revolves on a way to siege a totem and destroy it... not this split ruleset garbage.

[Bridger]

- Safe zones will be removed during the prelude on the War server when towns can defend themselves. ...

I've read and re-read Jooky's comments. As near as I can tell, that is the ONLY significant difference between the two servers: safe zones disappear a few months earlier on War than they do on Peace.

And that alone is what is driving all this angst and anguish?

[Jadzia]

Well guys, now Jad loves this new, um, change...I guess it's staying?

BTW is there any sort of real relationship IRL between Jad and any of the senior team? Not asking to be infmaitory, just asking....

No there isn't :) Actually I live on the other part of the globe, lol.

[jumpshot]

I vote 2 server, EU and US. Or A and B. Or 1 and 2.


Peace server seems like... built a sweet base for a week, then get bored.

War server seems like... you bored at launch cause youre the only one there.


Most zergy grief clans (I hesitate to call them "pvp clans") are goign to stay on Peace so they can prey on carebears.

[Redemp]

I've read and re-read Jooky's comments. As near as I can tell, that is the ONLY significant difference between the two servers: safe zones disappear a few months earlier on War than they do on Peace.

And that alone is what is driving all this angst and anguish?

Thats the only thing I want clarification on ... if infact the Peace server will indeed lose its safe zones after prelude as planned.

[datagoblin]

I've read and re-read Jooky's comments. As near as I can tell, that is the ONLY significant difference between the two servers: safe zones disappear a few months earlier on War than they do on Peace.

And that alone is what is driving all this angst and anguish?

That and hormones thrown out of whack by expectations not met...Probably nappy time for some as well.

[mrcalhou]

I get the server limitations, but what I don't get is why they can't just designate some of the map to be a safezone because of "angelic defenders" (this is lorematically plausible) and have the rest of the map open to PvP types. They get their crap to fight over and we get our place to hang out.

And yes, it's ENTIRELY possible. The only reasons Eve isn't doing any better is because don't like "being a ship" or they think it's like playing Excel.

[cejay]

No there isn't :) Actually I live on the other part of the globe, lol.

Fair enough and 2 pts to you for responding well :-)

[Dubanka]

Someone has a reading comprehension problem here...either it's me, or most people posting.

1. he's anticipating another population rush, so he's trying to make sure his servers don't explode. It's definitely damned if you do damned if you don't on this one...get bum rushed, pbase get lagged, overcrowded, can't plant their totems OH THE HORRORZZZ screaming ranting. etc. If the rush not so bad, under or uneven populations on servers OMG NO ONE OT BPLAY WITH GHOST TOWN. Extra server is probably a better call...population can always even out.

2. Servers start with the same rule set. Both servers have safe zones at start. Sounds like 'war' will be the guinea pig for the pvp testings...lockable gates, tribe warfare, archery, pole arms, etc. Need to test it and balance it in a live environment? going there. Once it gets hashed out and sanitized it gets imp'd on the other server(s). But again, at least from what I read, BOTH SERVERS START OUT IDENTICAL, WAR WILL JUST EVOLVE FASTER WITH THE NEW PVP MECHANICS. unless my reading comprehension skill is not functioning correctly.

I don't see any reason not to go War- we come with our own crafters, so have no need for the carebear militia. We're here for the territorial game, so the place where it gets there the soonest is where we'll start out.

[STAR_GOD]

Someone has a reading comprehension problem here...either it's me, or most people posting.

1. he's anticipating another population rush, so he's trying to make sure his servers don't explode. It's definitely damned if you do damned if you don't on this one...get bum rushed, pbase get lagged, overcrowded, can't plant their totems OH THE HORRORZZZ screaming ranting. etc. If the rush not so bad, under or uneven populations on servers OMG NO ONE OT BPLAY WITH GHOST TOWN. Extra server is probably a better call...population can always even out.

2. Servers start with the same rule set. Both servers have safe zones at start. Sounds like 'war' will be the guinea pig for the pvp testings...lockable gates, tribe warfare, archery, pole arms, etc. Need to test it and balance it in a live environment? going there. Once it gets hashed out and sanitized it gets imp'd on the other server(s). But again, at least from what I read, BOTH SERVERS START OUT IDENTICAL, WAR WILL JUST EVOLVE FASTER WITH THE NEW PVP MECHANICS. unless my reading comprehension skill is not functioning correctly.

I don't see any reason not to go War- we come with our own crafters, so have no need for the carebear militia. We're here for the territorial game, so the place where it gets there the soonest is where we'll start out.

ARE U SO NAIVE? 80% POPULATYION WILL BE ON PVE SERVER THERE FORE THEY WILL STILL HAVE POPULATION CRISIS

[Hopibear]

Someone has a reading comprehension problem here...either it's me, or most people posting.

1. he's anticipating another population rush, so he's trying to make sure his servers don't explode. It's definitely damned if you do damned if you don't on this one...get bum rushed, pbase get lagged, overcrowded, can't plant their totems OH THE HORRORZZZ screaming ranting. etc. If the rush not so bad, under or uneven populations on servers OMG NO ONE OT BPLAY WITH GHOST TOWN. Extra server is probably a better call...population can always even out.

2. Servers start with the same rule set. Both servers have safe zones at start. Sounds like 'war' will be the guinea pig for the pvp testings...lockable gates, tribe warfare, archery, pole arms, etc. Need to test it and balance it in a live environment? going there. Once it gets hashed out and sanitized it gets imp'd on the other server(s). But again, at least from what I read, BOTH SERVERS START OUT IDENTICAL, WAR WILL JUST EVOLVE FASTER WITH THE NEW PVP MECHANICS. unless my reading comprehension skill is not functioning correctly.

I don't see any reason not to go War- we come with our own crafters, so have no need for the carebear militia. We're here for the territorial game, so the place where it gets there the soonest is where we'll start out.

That gives me the feeling that i play on a test server

[cejay]

Someone has a reading comprehension problem here...either it's me, or most people posting.

1. he's anticipating another population rush, so he's trying to make sure his servers don't explode. It's definitely damned if you do damned if you don't on this one...get bum rushed, pbase get lagged, overcrowded, can't plant their totems OH THE HORRORZZZ screaming ranting. etc. If the rush not so bad, under or uneven populations on servers OMG NO ONE OT BPLAY WITH GHOST TOWN. Extra server is probably a better call...population can always even out.

2. Servers start with the same rule set. Both servers have safe zones at start. Sounds like 'war' will be the guinea pig for the pvp testings...lockable gates, tribe warfare, archery, pole arms, etc. Need to test it and balance it in a live environment? going there. Once it gets hashed out and sanitized it gets imp'd on the other server(s). But again, at least from what I read, BOTH SERVERS START OUT IDENTICAL, WAR WILL JUST EVOLVE FASTER WITH THE NEW PVP MECHANICS. unless my reading comprehension skill is not functioning correctly.

I don't see any reason not to go War- we come with our own crafters, so have no need for the carebear militia. We're here for the territorial game, so the place where it gets there the soonest is where we'll start out.

Agreed but argument has flaws.

Split will be !=.

Other than that, ya the pvp tribes that do go War will be...formidable.

[mindtrigger]

That and hormones thrown out of whack by expectations not met...Probably nappy time for some as well.

The update also seems to indicate seperate update paths with Tribal Warfare features being pushed on WAR first, and Crafting/Community features being pushed on PEACE first. This alone creates many questions, which I posted above.

[Bridger]

Thats the only thing I want clarification on ... if in fact the Peace server will indeed lose its safe zones after prelude as planned.

Per Jooky's update of March 4, 3:48PM:


The War server will have safe zones removed during the Prelude. The plan is to evolve this server to focus more on tribal warfare and conquest as quickly as possible.

The Peace server will retain its safe zones with tribes having the options to engage in tribal warfare or allow PvP on tribal lands. This server will evolve more for the crafting and building community.

The interpertation seems quite straight forward if you just read the words.

War server loses safe zones at some set point - what the great majority of the pro PvP camp have been demanding. (Cowboy up and put your reputations on the line with no rule-set skirts to run and hide behind.) Peace server still allows for tribal warfare and PvP, only on a more consensual basis. What the 'carebear' crew as been demanding. (We get to build until we get bored, then we get to find someone to declare war upon. Once we're tired of war, we go back to building. Until we get bored again.)

How is this not what everyone has been demanding? What's the matter? Are you all afraid that the actual numbers might not back up your assertions that your way is the right way?

[Sorakin]

Per Jooky's update of March 4, 3:48PM:



The interpertation seems quite straight forward if you just read the words.

War server loses safe zones at some set point - what the great majority of the pro PvP camp have been demanding. (Cowboy up and put your reputations on the line with no rule-set skirts to run and hide behind.) Peace server still allows for tribal warfare and PvP, only on a more consensual basis. What the 'carebear' crew as been demanding. (We get to build until we get bored, then we get to find someone to declare war upon. Once we're tired of war, we go back to building. Until we get bored again.)

How is this not what everyone has been demanding? What's the matter? Are you all afraid that the actual numbers might not back up your assertions that your way is the right way?

People hardly ever know what they REALLY want. Giving them what they want usually ends in disaster...

[Dubanka]

i thinkt he split pop question is a very valid concern...but really its an unknown until 'launch' and we see what crashes onto the servers.

[Redemp]

Per Jooky's update of March 4, 3:48PM:



The interpertation seems quite straight forward if you just read the words.



Yeah I read it ... and am not clear on it. If the Peace servers tribal war is always going to be consensual ... then its a marked change from his orginal idea to open it up after prelude. If its going to remain as planned, as in AFTER the prelude the peace server will have tribal wars ( non consensual ) then it truly is just a population split for the betterment of launch day stability.

I'm fine with either.

[Treepoet]

I'm curious about how long the servers will continue to be named War and Peace.

[r4NGe]

I just got home and wow what a news. I'm very happy with this decision, one server for the players who want tribal wars and conflict, and a Peace server with optional tribal wars and safe zones.

I know you don't understand and maybe never will, but you are being selfish. For your fragile peace of mind, the epic scope of this game, its life and profitability will suffer. There are a multitude of MMO lessons to draw from, that show this to be a monumental mistake. Wolves and sheep need each other, want each other, and dare I say, sometimes love each other (if you know what I mean).

Only the extreme will view this decision with glee.

There will be those, like you, whom will rejoice at the cool, clean drinks of water that they may sip safely at the river (BIRDS CHIRPING). The early evening trips in your best outfit to the campfire by the lake to tell scary stories of prelaunch will be most relaxing. You will gaze across your pointless fortifications and count again your 50 baskets of armor.

Then there will be the war server (THUNDER ROLLS). A place of despair... where the local chat wails in grieving of the lost General chat. A place where obese, naked savages dance on the lapping shores of the lake, using only their bound weapons.

I had hoped that the server would never split. The endless land beyond the mist will now roll back, only to be left barren. The servers populations will be grossly mismatched. The dream is in danger. If they split, at least use same ruleset!

[jeru]

BOTH SERVERS START OUT IDENTICAL, WAR WILL JUST EVOLVE FASTER WITH THE NEW PVP MECHANICS. unless my reading comprehension skill is not functioning correctly.

With the latest announcement that the only difference between the servers will be "prelude safe zones removed" . I like Dubanka's foresight on this issue; That someday down the road PvPers may be satisfied. Talking to tribe members about trying out the War server.

[mindtrigger]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have no idea where I belong now. While I was not planning a PvP-centric Tribe, I did want the element of this gameplay to be a reality on my server. I wanted a good mix of community and a harsh atmosphere. Now the whole thing seems whitewashed on both ends of the spectrum. I think this is a case of making a major change in the vision of the game when one wasn't needed, and now it may suffer in the end for it.

I understand the server-overload issue, but I would have rather seen login queues or something if that was the real issue.

[kaisergod]

This whole thread makes me LOL. So much crying over absolutely nothing.

Have half of you even bothered to read his recent update:
"- Both servers will start off the same.
- Both will have PvP with consequences.
- The Peace server is not a PvE server.
- Safe zones will be removed during the prelude on the War server when towns can defend themselves. This is not a Chaos or griefer server, but a server for players that want tribal warfare and conquest. This will happen as soon as possible, possibly within a month or two.
- The differences between servers will be slight. This will not require a lot of additional development, just a matter of settings and switches in the code.
- Both servers will evolve with each player base. The plan is and will always be to evolve with what the player base wants.
- The servers are an option. You can play on both if you like.

- Players that seek a world based on tribal warfare and conflict should choose the War server. That's the direction that server will evolve. Again, it will NOT be a Chaos free for all server. Players that want less danger and future consentual tribal PvP should choose the Peace server. The goal here is one of choices and balance."

There is absolutely nothing in there, or the original post which mentioned the 2 servers that says anything close to what many people are crying about. He said both servers will evolve based on what the COMMUNITY wants. Nowhere did he say War server will get all the PvP updates first and Peace server will get all the PvE updates first.

Both servers are IDENTICAL except for the safe zones during PRELUDE. After Prelude / once siege mechanics, etc are added safe zones will be removed from Peace server anyway. The ONLY difference from what he is saying is WHEN safezones will be removed. 6-9 months from now, when prelude ends and safezones are gone from both servers there will be almost no difference in the servers anyway. Peace is just for those who wish to start out under somewhat safer building/crafting conditions, War is for those who prefer to have no safety right from the start.

Hell if it makes everyone feel better, maybe he should just name them Easy Mode and Hard Mode servers for now. Peace (aka easy mode) allows you to build safely for a few months, War (aka hard mode) means you can get your ass handed to you at anytime, and hiding in your house wont save you (until defenses are put into the game at least).

Also, about the PvPers & PvErs/crafters/builders being on different servers.... only idiots would split themselve sthe way mos tof you are assuming they will. The PvPers need crafters/builders, so any crafters/builders who do go to War will be a very valuable asset to any tribe. A smart crafter/builder would actually go to War server with their tribe so that after prelude, theyve got the best PvPers on their side to protect them. At the same time, not everyone who loves to PvP ONLY loves unchecked PvP with no protection, many of us enjoy several aspects of the game not JUST the PvP, so im sure Peace will have plenty of PvPers there.

[Redemp]

- Players that seek a world based on tribal warfare and conflict should choose the War server. That's the direction that server will evolve. Again, it will NOT be a Chaos free for all server. Players that want less danger and future consentual tribal PvP should choose the Peace server. The goal here is one of choices and balance.

Which I understand to mean that the Peace server will never have non consensual tribal pvp ... EVER.

War server it is.

[yoori]

I know you don't understand and maybe never will, but you are being selfish. For your fragile peace of mind, the epic scope of this game, its life and profitability will suffer. There are a multitude of MMO lessons to draw from, that show this to be a monumental mistake. Wolves and sheep need each other, want each other, and dare I say, sometimes love each other (if you know what I mean).

Only the extreme will view this decision with glee.

There will be those, like you, whom will rejoice at the cool, clean drinks of water that they may sip safely at the river (BIRDS CHIRPING). The early evening trips in your best outfit to the campfire by the lake to tell scary stories of prelaunch will be most relaxing. You will gaze across your pointless fortifications and count again your 50 baskets of armor.

Then there will be the war server (THUNDER ROLLS). A place of despair... where the local chat wails in grieving of the lost General chat. A place where obese, naked savages dance on the lapping shores of the lake, using only their bound weapons.

I had hoped that the server would never split. The endless land beyond the mist will now roll back, only to be left barren. The servers populations will be grossly mismatched. The dream is in danger. If they split, at least use same ruleset!

Rulset will be the same, but warfare will come sooner on war server. And they will stay the same, there might be small differences as both server rulesets will evolve with community.

For example it might be that peace will have non-conquerable main towns and war won't.

If they would split servers into just 1,2 they would probably evolve differently as well. This way at least we know initial directon.

[mindtrigger]

This whole thread makes me LOL. So much crying over absolutely nothing.

Have half of you even bothered to read his recent update:
"- Both servers will start off the same.
- Both will have PvP with consequences.
- The Peace server is not a PvE server.
- Safe zones will be removed during the prelude on the War server when towns can defend themselves. This is not a Chaos or griefer server, but a server for players that want tribal warfare and conquest. This will happen as soon as possible, possibly within a month or two.
- The differences between servers will be slight. This will not require a lot of additional development, just a matter of settings and switches in the code.
- Both servers will evolve with each player base. The plan is and will always be to evolve with what the player base wants.
- The servers are an option. You can play on both if you like.

- Players that seek a world based on tribal warfare and conflict should choose the War server. That's the direction that server will evolve. Again, it will NOT be a Chaos free for all server. Players that want less danger and future consentual tribal PvP should choose the Peace server. The goal here is one of choices and balance."

There is absolutely nothing in there, or the original post which mentioned the 2 servers that says anything close to what many people are crying about. He said both servers will evolve based on what the COMMUNITY wants. Nowhere did he say War server will get all the PvP updates first and Peace server will get all the PvE updates first.

Both servers are IDENTICAL except for the safe zones during PRELUDE. After Prelude / once siege mechanics, etc are added safe zones will be removed from Peace server anyway. The ONLY difference from what he is saying is WHEN safezones will be removed. 6-9 months from now, when prelude ends and safezones are gone from both servers there will be almost no difference in the servers anyway. Peace is just for those who wish to start out under somewhat safer building/crafting conditions, War is for those who prefer to have no safety right from the start.

Hell if it makes everyone feel better, maybe he should just name them Easy Mode and Hard Mode servers for now. Peace (aka easy mode) allows you to build safely for a few months, War (aka hard mode) means you can get your ass handed to you at anytime, and hiding in your house wont save you (until defenses are put into the game at least).

No they won't start off "the same" by virtue of the PLAYER DYNAMIC changing. This changes the whole game, if not in coded mechanics, in the PLAYER variable. Try to remember that this game is heavily reliant on the players themselves for content and evolution. I'm a good example. I have no idea which server I should go to now, because for me it wasn't as simple as PvE vs PvP. I think for Xsyon to work as originally envisioned, the two should be equally developed on the servers, and the players should not be split based on PvE vs PvP. This isn't WoW.

I'm not crying anyway. This won't be the first or last time I have seen game devs make a decision like this that could make or break the game. If it breaks, I leave and take my dollars with me. Nothing to cry over, but a bummer I suppose.

[Xsyon]

If they would split servers into just 1,2 they would probably evolve differently as well. This way at least we know initial directon.


This is correct. The plan, as I keep saying, is to evolve with the player base. The current player base is pushing in two different directions, so we'll start off this way. If you start off on a server with like minded players you know better what to expect in the future.

Choices and evolution with the community is the plan.

[Baldur]

"Players that want less danger and future consentual tribal PvP should choose the Peace server."

That is the choice that players and tribes have to make now. It still kind of polarizes crafters/PvPers though... from this statement it reads that on the Peace server there will never be any non consentual PvP between tribes.

[mindtrigger]

Best way I can describe my feelings about this is to say that both servers will be "watered down" versions of the original vision.

[Jadzia]

No they won't start off "the same" by virtue of the PLAYER DYNAMIC changing. This changes the whole game, if not in coded mechanics, in the PLAYER variable. Try to remember that this game is heavily reliant on the players themselves for content and evolution. I'm a good example. I have no idea which server I should go to now, because for me it wasn't as simple as PvE vs PvP. I think for Xsyon to work as originally envisioned, the two should be equally developed on the servers, and the players should not be split based on PvE vs PvP. This isn't WoW.

I'm not crying anyway. This won't be the first or last time I have seen game devs make a decision like this that could make or break the game. If it breaks, I leave and take my dollars with me. Nothing to cry over, but a bummer I suppose.

It won't be PvE vs PvP server. It will be War server with FFA tribal war mechanic and Peace server with optional tribal war mechanic. This is the only main difference.

[Baldur]

Best way I can describe my feelings about this is to say that both servers will be "watered down" versions of the original vision.

I completely agree.

[mindtrigger]

It won't be PvE vs PvP server. It will be War server with FFA tribal war mechanic and Peace server with optional tribal war mechanic. This is the only main difference.

Are you joking? Look at the posts. No matter what the intended reason for this was, people are already splitting into PvE vs PvP camps and choosing servers accordingly. I see it in my own Tribe's discussion board right now. These server choices have been around in MMOs for years now, and no matter what the devs decide is the definition for these two servers, most players will read and act according to PvE vs PvP when choosing a server.

Hey, I hope everything works out, but I am completely confused as to where I belong now. I rather liked the idea of the original vision of the game. What we have now seems more like Darkfall vs. A Tale in the Desert.

[baka77]

It won't be PvE vs PvP server. It will be War server with FFA tribal war mechanic and Peace server with optional tribal war mechanic. This is the only main difference.

Consensual vs Non-consensual is a pretty huge difference though. LOL

[Ikisis]

With the latest announcement that the only difference between the servers will be "prelude safe zones removed" that means pvpers on the PvE server can casually gank (which I intend on going this route). I like Dubanka's foresight on this issue; That someday down the road PvPers may be satisfied. But the grass is A LOT greener on the PvE server at the moment :)

- Players that seek a world based on tribal warfare and conflict should choose the War server. That's the direction that server will evolve. Again, it will NOT be a Chaos free for all server. Players that want less danger and future consentual tribal PvP should choose the Peace server. The goal here is one of choices and balance.
Which means Peace = /Duel

[yoori]

It won't be PvE vs PvP server. It will be War server with FFA tribal war mechanic and Peace server with optional tribal war mechanic. This is the only main difference.

It depend on how community goes. It unlikely, but possible that it will go the other way aroud.
The servers will be the same, but may evolve differently.

[Badaboom]

Cheers for WAR server!! Woot!!

[Dubanka]

It won't be PvE vs PvP server. It will be War server with FFA tribal war mechanic and Peace server with optional tribal war mechanic. This is the only main difference.


Consensual vs Non-consensual is a pretty huge difference though. LOL

yeah. it's like a duel. yippee.

there are no real politics behind consensual (ok, is your tribe ready war yet? no not yet. ok we'll wait. do you need me to help craft you some armor before we go to war? sure that would be great, big help thanks. all right here i come lets get ready to rummble! yippee! this is thrilling!) pvp/gvg

no betrayal.

no fear or desparation.

no risk.

i can only hope the majority pop goes to war, to leave the carebears to their sim craft.

[r4NGe]

CONSENSUAL WAR

TRIBE 1: You have plagued us long enough. Die by our hand.
TRIBE 2: Ok, but could you wait till after supper. Meatloaf!!
TRIBE 1: Eat in fear, whisper me when you get back. :*
(30 minutes pass)
TRIBE 2: hey, you guys ready?
TRIBE 1: Oh hey, yes, we will march over your eastern hill in 5 minutes. We are in formation, it is so cool, wait till you see!
TRIBE 2: bring it.
(fighting ensues)
TRIBE 1: Time out, Time out!!!
TRIBE 2: ok, wut happened?
TRIBE 1: we had a dude timeout and another guy forgot his axe, lol.
TRIBE 2: LOL *hug*

[Ikisis]

yeah. it's like a duel. yippee.

there are no real politics behind consensual (ok, is your tribe ready war yet? no not yet. ok we'll wait. do you need me to help craft you some armor before we go to war? sure that would be great, big help thanks. all right here i come lets get ready to rummble! yippee! this is thrilling!) pvp/gvg

no betrayal.

no fear or desparation.

no risk.

i can only hope the majority pop goes to war, to leave the carebears to their sim craft.

Agree 150%, no thank you for /Duel system's

[JCatano]

- Players that seek a world based on tribal warfare and conflict should choose the War server. That's the direction that server will evolve. Again, it will NOT be a Chaos free for all server. Players that want less danger and future consentual tribal PvP should choose the Peace server. The goal here is one of choices and balance. - Xsyon


Sounds good to me. War server it is.

Better get that siege system in soon. :)

[kaisergod]

No they won't start off "the same" by virtue of the PLAYER DYNAMIC changing. This changes the whole game, if not in coded mechanics, in the PLAYER variable. Try to remember that this game is heavily reliant on the players themselves for content and evolution. I'm a good example. I have no idea which server I should go to now, because for me it wasn't as simple as PvE vs PvP. I think for Xsyon to work as originally envisioned, the two should be equally developed on the servers, and the players should not be split based on PvE vs PvP. This isn't WoW.

I'm not crying anyway. This won't be the first or last time I have seen game devs make a decision like this that could make or break the game. If it breaks, I leave and take my dollars with me. Nothing to cry over, but a bummer I suppose.

Thats what people dont seem to be grasping. It is NOT strictly PvE and PvP servers. It is only one starts with safe zones, the other doesnt. Thats it, its not all that complex. Yes the servers may evolve somewhat differently based on what the players themselves do, but does it really matter? For the people who wanted the safe zones, absolutely nothing is changing for them if they stay on Peace. For those that didnt want safezones, now they can have their way too. Everyone wins.

I know there are concerns about the population being split, but come on people have you ever played an MMO before in your life? Xsyon is hardly the first game to have seperate servers focused more towards PvE and PvP crowds. The population might not be huge right now, but what, is everyone assuming/hoping that the pop will stay as it is and the game will wind up sucking and no ne wpeople will come? Im sure thats not the case, so why are so many concerned about exactly what the population is right now not being enough to be split between 2 servers?

IMO he made a very wise decision with the 2 servers not only fo rthe current players but also to add to the attractiveness of the game for future players. Now they have an option, rather than being forced into only 1 way and will be more likely to pick up the game. If things do evolve quite differently on the 2 servers, then even better. Think, we could have 1 server which is more of a peaceful utopian society, and 1 which is in a constant state of war & conflict. 2 completely different options/playstyles for new players to choose from down the road.

And if nothing else, would people please stop ignoring the fact that YOU CAN HAVE CHARACTERS ON BOTH SERVERS. If you want to play in peace while crafting & building you can on 1 character, then for some more fun go build a combat character on the other server. Tribes can do the same too. Nobody is forcing your tribe to stay on 1 server or the other. You can just have everyone create alt characters on the 2nd server and play completely differently if you like. Maybe on 1 server youre a helpful friendly tribe, then you log on your alts on th eother server and just wreak havoc everywhere. Id certainly prefer that over having to act/play the same way all the time. Mix it up a bit, stop being so narrow minded, and have some fun.

[santoclawz]

Sigh i had such hopes for this game....

[randomt]

stuff

I agre with kaisergod... I think many people are over-reacting

[kaisergod]

Are you joking? Look at the posts. No matter what the intended reason for this was, people are already splitting into PvE vs PvP camps and choosing servers accordingly. I see it in my own Tribe's discussion board right now. These server choices have been around in MMOs for years now, and no matter what the devs decide is the definition for these two servers, most players will read and act according to PvE vs PvP when choosing a server.

Hey, I hope everything works out, but I am completely confused as to where I belong now. I rather liked the idea of the original vision of the game. What we have now seems more like Darkfall vs. A Tale in the Desert.

Thats yours, and your tribe's, own fault for looking at it in such a way and having knee jerk reactions to the decision. Youre all freaking out about "omg Pve servers vs PvP servers" when thats not even the situation.

[maelwydd]

Can anyone link the official statment about this, can't seem to find anything about it.

My initial thoughts though are WHY?

I thought prelude was an initial 'building of the social foundations' to prepare for when artificial restrictions are removed. This seems like a really bad idea.

[mindtrigger]

Thats what people dont seem to be grasping. It is NOT strictly PvE and PvP servers. It is only one starts with safe zones, the other doesnt. Thats it, its not all that complex. Yes the servers may evolve somewhat differently based on what the players themselves do, but does it really matter? For the people who wanted the safe zones, absolutely nothing is changing for them if they stay on Peace. For those that didnt want safezones, now they can have their way too. Everyone wins.

Again, the players will choose what they know. They will interpret Peace as PvE and War as PvP. They are already doing it. It does not matter what the technical definition is. As you know, this is a sandbox game, and nothing like most other MMOs out there. In this game, the player, their attitudes, their goals, their vision IS the gameplay. When you polarize the population like this, I believe you will get a watered down version of the game on both servers. This seems acceptable to the devs, and that is their choice. Only time will tell now that the decision has been made.

[Ikisis]

I agre with kaisergod... I think many people are over-reacting

No. not at all.

- Players that seek a world based on tribal warfare and conflict should choose the War server. That's the direction that server will evolve. Again, it will NOT be a Chaos free for all server. Players that want less danger and future consentual tribal PvP should choose the Peace server. The goal here is one of choices and balance.

In Bold is the system that makes the server's Worlds away from each other.

con·sen·tu·al
 
–adjective Law .
Involving or carried out by mutual consent: a consentual divorce.

[mindtrigger]

Thats yours, and your tribe's, own fault for looking at it in such a way and having knee jerk reactions to the decision. Youre all freaking out about "omg Pve servers vs PvP servers" when thats not even the situation.

This would be a brilliant insight if the whole community wasn't already doing this. Read the posts. PvP people are going to the War server and PvE people are going to the Peace server. I'm not dreaming it up. Ask them yourself. In this game, the PEOPLE are the content, not the game mechanics. This isn't a Themepark.

At any rate, I have said my piece. I'll leave it to others to discuss now.

[wolfmoonstrike]

This would be a brilliant insight if the whole community wasn't already doing this. Read the posts. PvP people are going to the War server and PvE people are going to the Peace server. I'm not dreaming it up. Ask them yourself. In this game, the PEOPLE are the content, not the game mechanics. This isn't a Themepark.

^this is the problem exactly with 2 servers.

[maelwydd]

OK I have read the statment about this and now I REALLY think this is a bad idea.

Keep the safe zones until you have the code in place to allow people to protect themselves via construction and/or laws and punishment systems. Splitting servers will simply mean a poorer game. And to be honest, I expect the griefer types to actively use the peaceful server to continue being azzhats rather then join the war server where they will probably find their butts handed to them as people will be more designed for combat.

Bad move imo.

[shadowlz]

people saying PvPers are pissed because they cant gank carebears is outright unintelligent. Thats like saying countries go to war just so they can slaughter civilians. PvPers wanted a world with some conflict. In a perfect world every tribe would have PvP bodyguards/armies so that everyone one could war everyone and have a decent fight. Maybe the weaker side would call on some allies to aid them creating neat world wars.
Instead you have one server with no conflict where the crafters are, and one server will chaos far behind in technology with no crafters. Why would a crafter want to come to a server were they get ganked waiting for their basket to open, just to spawn at their totem and get ganked again.

No one is going back on what they said, we never wanted a chaos server, we wanted BALANCE. Ya know like if 2 tribes border eachother if gives both tribes a territory claim casus belli. Or if a tribe has been encroaching on your land if gives the victim a trespassing casus belli, Or if a tribe attacked your tribe member in the wild the victim gets an aggression casus belli. Hell if a tribemember farts in your general direction you can get a insult casus belli if you want.
See that? Instant balance. Prevents warmongering tribes from going around wreaking everyone, while creating nice conflict. Victoria II and Europa Universalis have better war/peace balance than this game, and they are singleplayer games.

[randomt]

No. not at all.

- Players that seek a world based on tribal warfare and conflict should choose the War server. That's the direction that server will evolve. Again, it will NOT be a Chaos free for all server. Players that want less danger and future consentual tribal PvP should choose the Peace server. The goal here is one of choices and balance.



So pretty much like EvE's empire space.. so what's the big deal? If you prefer 0.0 style play the War server

[Eremon]

OK I have read the statment about this and now I REALLY think this is a bad idea.

And to be honest, I expect the griefer types to actively use the peaceful server to continue being azzhats.

They won't last there long. CoC will be enforced. A player was banned for a week today for being an "azzhat".

[Cracky69]

This thread is priceless. This game used to have a decent community, but now we have a whole world worth of whiners.

I simply cannot understand the PvP guilds that have been asking for no safezones until they're blue in the face and now they are being offered exactly what they have asked for they are quite simply chickening out.

What is wrong with you people? Then I read this lame excuse about the number on the War servers will be less. For ages the PvPers have been arguing the game needs a War-type server, but now it appears you have no belief in your own wish. Also, if you're so sure that you're in the minority (and the War server will be empty) then how could you ever expect to inflict your playstyle on the less aggressive minority.

The last thing that makes my jaw drop is this apparent ability for some of you to think that every player is on one camp or another. Even my eight year old kid has learnt that the world is not simply black or white. I, for one consider myself primarily a crafter but I will start on the War server. You may not understand why... maybe it's to avoid all the hardcore PvPer who are now doing a runner to the peace server.

[Dweetybyrd]

Can we start our own poll? I want to know where the majority of people will be going.

Splititng the servers, bad idea!!

[Ikisis]

people saying PvPers are pissed because they cant gank carebears is outright unintelligent. Thats like saying countries go to war just so they can slaughter civilians. PvPers wanted a world with some conflict. In a perfect world every tribe would have PvP bodyguards/armies so that everyone one could war everyone and have a decent fight. Maybe the weaker side would call on some allies to aid them creating neat world wars.
Instead you have one server with no conflict where the crafters are, and one server will chaos far behind in technology with no crafters. Why would a crafter want to come to a server were they get ganked waiting for their basket to open, just to spawn at their totem and get ganked again.

No one is going back on what they said, we never wanted a chaos server, we wanted BALANCE. Ya know like if 2 tribes border eachother if gives both tribes a territory claim casus belli. Or if a tribe has been encroaching on your land if gives the victim a trespassing casus belli, Or if a tribe attacked your tribe member in the wild the victim gets an aggression casus belli. Hell if a tribemember farts in your general direction you can get a insult casus belli if you want.
See that? Instant balance. Prevents warmongering tribes from going around wreaking everyone, while creating nice conflict. Victoria II and Europa Universalis have better war/peace balance than this game, and they are singleplayer games.

THIS guy understand. We arnt Griefer's PvP and conflict make job's and roleplay for Merc's, Bodyguard's, Law system's ENFORCED by player's and patrol's, Tax's and rebelion's againt the law maker's of the time.

I mean that is all player driven content that is just getting burnt because the Trade Community camps will be the biggest and best on the Safer Consentual server.

[NexAnima]

- Safe zones will be removed during the prelude on the War server when towns can defend themselves.




THEY BOTH START WITH SAFEZONES

[shadowlz]

I do feel bad for Jordi, im sure hes on the brink of an emotional breakdown with all the stress we cause him.

Also to cracky if you read my post 3 posts up, its not what anyone wanted.

[Ikisis]

THEY BOTH START WITH SAFEZONES

Peace Server will be Consentual PvP after Pre-lude (Tribe vs Tribe Rather)

[crowley23]

and yet you still can die on Peace when you wander off of tribal land.....good I want the thrill of dieing when Im off scavanging

[Cracky69]

I do feel bad for Jordi, im sure hes on the brink of an emotional breakdown with all the stress we cause him.

Also to cracky if you read my post 3 posts up, its not what anyone wanted.

The War server is exactly what you wanted. You just want crafters on it. If you have some faith in your on dream of how the game can be you might be surprised. As a crafter I would still rather play on the War server so stop jumping ship.

[shadowlz]

The War server is exactly what you wanted. You just want crafters on it. If you have some faith in your on dream of how the game can be you might be surprised. As a crafter I would still rather play on the War server so stop jumping ship.

never said im jumping ship, your great at putting words in my mouth. I NEVER wanted a war server as its present, maybe one with balanced war machanics but not "ok grab the nearest stick and hit people with it." even darkfall had safe(ish) zones.

Im not even a fan of splitting the server. I will play on peace server, theres more population, and at the moment is 2x more balanced than the war server.

[kaisergod]

THEY BOTH START WITH SAFEZONES

Yes youre right, in my posts i was thinking of it as if we already had those defenses, which would have been nice but unfortunately not in place right away. Now that you point that out....

Since we dont have those in place yet, there really is no difference at all between the 2 servers right now. There really wont be any differece at all likely for a couple of months. So it wont be anything like Day 1 of server: Everyone logs in and just goes crazy killing everyone they can find anywhere. We will still have the exact same safe zones on both servers for now.

The only difference will be AFTER they are added into the game, and by then most of us will already have our tribes established buildings constructed, etc and ready to get right to work on putting uop defenses. On that note this is probably pretty obvious to some, but just in case... dont oput out the defenses AND remove safe zones both at the same time. Give it a week or 2 to make sure there arent massive bugs with them, give people a chance to get a few things built afte ryou put them into the game, and then announce the removal of safezones.

Anyway, like i said, for now there wont really be any differenc ein the servers until AFTER defenses are put in. So rather than having knee jerk reactions and freaking out, people & tribe sneed to slow down, realize everything is the same on both servers right now, and plan FOR THE FUTURE. A month or 2, or whenever we get the defenses, down the road.... do you want to be on the server where there is only consensual tribal warfare, and the defenses will only really be needed as a tactical thing in consensual battles? Or do you want to be on the server where putting those defenses in place and maintaining & improving them constantly will be a vital part in making sure you dont login one day to find your tribe destroyed by an enemy who felt like attacking you?

[NexAnima]

Peace Server will be Consentual PvP after Pre-lude (Tribe vs Tribe Rather)

Wasn't the point of my post. Too many times have I seen post saying "its not the same one has no safezones". As far as the context of the PvP, I wouldn't say anything is set in stone, seeing as "- Both servers will evolve with each player base. The plan is and will always be to evolve with what the player base wants." So if the peace server want to add non-consensual tribe vs tribe then I can imagine they will change it. Look at it like this, I see the peace server as the dominate server, the war server will get the first look on what the impact non-consensual TvT will be. If it turns into an overall "shit storm" then they could always turn War into a test server for future content.

[Pyotroosh]

Splitting up the playerbase on 2 servers its a vary bad move form my point of view. A very bad one, most probablly decided under pressure made from people who wish only the PvP aspect of the game. After one month past we shall see but if it will turn out as a bad move you might not be able to hold the playerbase that was once full of hope for this game beeing a different one.

[Hopibear]

This is correct. The plan, as I keep saying, is to evolve with the player base. The current player base is pushing in two different directions, so we'll start off this way. If you start off on a server with like minded players you know better what to expect in the future.

Choices and evolution with the community is the plan.


Sounds like you are developing 2 different type of games.
Basicly the 2 servers have different concept ..
I Wish to enjoy craft and pvp aspects by playing 1 character and not split my time in 2 servers.
Never complained about xsyon features and gamewise, but this is really not the right way.
Make 2x servers that are basicly the same if you have population issue's and let everybody enjoy the FULL concept of the game and not by focusing developments on war/peace server.
This totally split the community even more.

[DaAzub]

wow this is retarded. most dumbest move ever..

[chaosegg]

Let me start by saying I love this game dearly. It is exactly the game I have been looking for for 10 years or more.
I've played everything mmorpgish since EQ first came out, PvP, non-pvp, I've done it all. Spent years in EVE-online as a successful FC, and I love EVE-online as well with several thousand pvp involvements. I played Darkfall for a year and did raiding/defending. I love PvP games that are balanced properly and have some risk/reward (hate WoW/Rift style).

I have some major concerns about the idea of War vs Peace servers as I will discuss below.
I hope the alignment system allows for something like gankers turning evil alignment and then not being safe [even inside their own territory],
and/or a well-thought-out system for siege, conquest, and war (on BOTH servers).

Here is my nightmare:

War server
-gets way to conquer/destroy neighbor totems,
-but is a total gankfest since anyone can declare war on you and then kill you in your home.

Peace server:
-stays the way it is now, and you build a huge city/castle only to have bad neighbors move next door/around you that kill anyone who leaves your city or comes to trade.
-You have no way to get rid of someone(s)' totem you do not like.
-You can only declare consensual war to fight someone in their land and potentially drive them off.

Either way, consensual combat, with only pride as your risk, is not what I came to this game for: there are a ton of games with consensual/arena combat out there which I choose NOT to play.
That being said, I also did not sign on to this game to spend hundreds of my free/entertainment hours building/crafting stuff that someone can destroy in a day of free war just because they felt like it.
So while I am not a "total carebear", nor am I a "hardcore ganker" type of player.
I am willing to bet a lot of people fall into the same category as me, or at least they would if any game could successfully blend/blurr the lines.

I feel that without more detailed information on killzones and totem destruction, the idea of a War and Peace (poorly named to say the least) server split could do the opposite of blurring the carebear/ganker line and will force a difficult choice for many people who would rather have both.

[ironhydra]

I think this is a very bad idea. I think the game may have shot itself in the foot. I have a couple of questions which may or may not help me make sense of all this.

After prelude, Safety zones are going to go away and tribal warfare will begin. During this period, is warfare all consensual? or as I thought the political/territorial aspects would take over, But warfare was solidly in?

If Yes is the answer. I have no problems and I will join the Peace server, because that was the original intent behind the game.
If the answer is know. Then I have to re-evaluate the game

I believe that 99% of the ppl are going to choose the PVE server and not the PVP server regardless, thus making for a very poor gaming experience for those players. We've spoken with many from the major tribes and they will be going on the PVE server.

I would rather deal with a bit of a crowded area until some of the mist can be lifted then this two server business.

Please put up an official poll, because I think that you will find that your community does not want this. In fact the other polls about splitting up servers where overwhelmingly no.

nononononononononononononon 2 servers.

This is my question. Will the peace server always have consentual PVP. I do not like consentual. It takes away from the suprise attack. This ruins PVP strategy.

[boomer0901]

A true pvp'er will love this concept, but what most games don't have these days are true pvp'ers they are out there, it's just that the whiney/troll/griefer/pk take up most of the space. A true PvP'er would love this concept and you can see by this thread which ones are the true pvp'ers vs the troll/griefer/pk.

A true pvp'er does it for the combat and thrill of competition, glory and honour, thrive on victory and a fair fight/equals. A troll/griefer/pk/whiner does it to gloat, spew leet speech about how uber leet 1337 godly they are, they thrive on suffering and creating misery and enjoy wrecking the game for others, sure they have a drive to win as well, but seldom go for a true test of pvp. Sadly you can combine the 2 as well which makes them even more annoying. I try not to name guilds (and I won't), but a certain guild that we all know and love would fit the bill for both of them, that is why no one likes you not because ppl don't believe you're good at pvp, it's that your damn annoying.

Given enough time every single person in this game could make their own stuff so there is no excuse of there will be no crafters, crafter your own shit, get off your ass and salvage some stuff. If Jooky does truly give us rein of both servers I will for sure be playing on both. I like the idea of seperating them, it could have merit down the road, or hell could just flop really bad.

As much as I like the idea I still think he should play it safe and just make two identical servers and be done with it.

This thread actually brings me great joy by looking at the pvp clans bitching and moaning, this is how a troll/griefer must feel.

[Cracky69]

never said im jumping ship, your great at putting words in my mouth. I NEVER wanted a war server as its present, maybe one with balanced war machanics but not "ok grab the nearest stick and hit people with it." even darkfall had safe(ish) zones.

Im not even a fan of splitting the server. I will play on peace server, theres more population, and at the moment is 2x more balanced than the war server.

I apologise if I had the wrong impression of YOUR views, but in the wider context of this thread a lot of PvPers are already saying they'll play on the Peace server or they will ask for a refund. I'm sorry, but I just don't get that. Maybe it will become a ghost town, but my original incredulity was caused by the PvPers who are already giving up on the War server before it's even begun when it's in many cases (maybe not yours) exactly what they were asking for. The War server will also have some safe(ish) zones particularly if large tribes develop to provide the protection needed for crafters. We could end up with something like factions where tribes band together. I don't know.

Whatever the case, I'd like to give the War server a try and see how it develops. I'm just stunned by the players who (in my view) have completely reneged on their own demands for this game.

BTW nice post Boomer (I agree 100%)

[yoori]

never said im jumping ship, your great at putting words in my mouth. I NEVER wanted a war server as its present, maybe one with balanced war machanics but not "ok grab the nearest stick and hit people with it." even darkfall had safe(ish) zones.

Im not even a fan of splitting the server. I will play on peace server, theres more population, and at the moment is 2x more balanced than the war server.

Where did you get that war server won't have balanced mechanics, it will have the same mechanics as peace server. The difference is that war server will have war introduced sooner.

Consentual warfare might be implemented in many ways it doesn't have to be "/duel". It all depends on comunity as it always have.

[NexAnima]

Actually now that I think of it, this reminds me of a time players were listened to, it resulted in a world called trammel...

You get what you ask for I guess.

[Larsa]

Wonderful decision, Xsyon, and thanks for this hilarious thread.

Roughly 25% of the voters in the poll (here: http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/3164-Simple-poll-to-remove-safe-zones-in-Prelude) said they wanted a game with no safe zones in prelude. Now they get a server where safe zones will be removed as soon as possible - and what do they do: fuming, crying, ragequitting.

Priceless. :)

[jumper45]

C'mon guys...you're getting what you wanted. Nut up. Go on over there. Make it work. You want politics and influencing people...start by influencing your crafters to go over there with you.

Sheesh.

You couldn't have found a better way to completely EXPOSE the "hardcore pvp" crowd.

[ffff]

I can careless about "Safe Zones" or not, I'll play either way, but with ONE server!

[Kroom]

How will you ensure the players of a particular server are making the suggestions (splitting up the forums isn’t going to cut it)?

If game mechanics are going to be based on two communities/play types how will this not thin out development?

I have to guess which server will evolve into what I want to play, guess wrong re-roll.

Becoming less of a game and more of a social experiment… Make the servers the same and give them generic names (Bear and Wolf) and be done with it.

[Chavoda]

My guess be that tribe leaders on peace need to invite other tribes to war, and tribes on the war server will have a open to attack at any time mechanic.
no difference in out of save zone pvp as I read it.

The view of some folks that a "war"and a"peace" server will split the community is kinda ridicules in my own view.
As a tribe why do you even recruit crafters that are not into pvp if your a self proclaimed hardcore pvp tribe, if you dint then you wont loos your crafters.

Any tribe that does not have its own crafters would not make it in the long run as trade is slow and in warfare the faster you can resuply the more chance you win.

Be happy, No more crying from both sides , "PvE" folks have a bit saver home (for a while at least) and PvP'er can beat the heck out of each otehr and have a challenge instead of hunting folks that cant or wont fight back.

[shadowlz]

Well then I guess I'm not a PvPer. I play for the experience which I like to be a balance between PvP and PvE, where they merge nicely, like my post suggesting a better idea. Im not one of them fancy elitist 'real' PvPers that PvP for the thrill, if I wanted that I would play team fortress 2, or CoD.

As I said, peace seems to be more balance at the moment, so I will be joining that. Hopefully if war becomes magically good, I'll go over there. But seeing how the war population will be mostly the 'real' PvPers that want Quake: Xsyon Arena with crafting, I doubt it will change.

Also I say Peace is more balance because there IS PvP, if i suddenly have the urge to murder a hapless lumberjack, i can waltz outside and beat up on him. Just as if i leave camp, go fishing, someone can come up on take my honor.

[Hollywood]

Welcome to the Pre CU/NGE of Xsyon. Two servers is a bad idea imo. /sigh

[Monfols]

pffff, 2 servers Someone make a poll please.
I don't think this the solution. Make the pvp a total grief server and remove after a while so people who want to grief can do it on that server....
This is annoying.

[Kroom]

The view of some folks that a "war"and a"peace" server will split the community is kinda ridicules in my own view.

If they are being developed into unique paths of play how is that not dividing?!?!?

[mindtrigger]

I'm with those who were in the middle of the road and now feel lost. How about a 3rd server that has the ORIGINAL design, and lets see which server fills up first...

Were safe zones really this big of deal that such a change was required? You were already planning to remove them after prelude, right?

[kaisergod]

Well then I guess I'm not a PvPer. I play for the experience which I like to be a balance between PvP and PvE, where they merge nicely, like my post suggesting a better idea. Im not one of them fancy elitist 'real' PvPers that PvP for the thrill, if I wanted that I would play team fortress 2, or CoD.

As I said, peace seems to be more balance at the moment, so I will be joining that. Hopefully if war becomes magically good, I'll go over there. But seeing how the war population will be mostly the 'real' PvPers that want Quake: Xsyon Arena with crafting, I doubt it will change.

Also I say Peace is more balance because there IS PvP, if i suddenly have the urge to murder a hapless lumberjack, i can waltz outside and beat up on him. Just as if i leave camp, go fishing, someone can come up on take my honor.

Please point out exactly where there is any difference in balance?

As has been pointed out already, BOTH servers will start out EXACTLY the same. The only major difference will be that later down the road AFTER defenses & siege mechanics have been put in place War server will have safe zones removed. Until then, the 2 servers are COMPLETELY IDENTICAL. Everyone still has the same safe zones they have now.

War server does not mean all out war starting from day 1. It means you need to plan ahead for the day when he does take the safe zones away.

[wolfmoonstrike]

pffff, 2 servers Someone make a poll please.
I don't think this the solution. Make the pvp a total grief server and remove after a while so people who want to grief can do it on that server....
This is annoying.
I would think that griefing would be easier on the peace server since most people expect the crafters and easy targets will go to peace. War sounds like the place you want to go if you want tribal warfare. I mean safe zones will be up till we can defend ourselves. So that means we will have time to make our area safe-ish.

[Cracky69]

Well then I guess I'm not a PvPer. I play for the experience which I like to be a balance between PvP and PvE, where they merge nicely, like my post suggesting a better idea. Im not one of them fancy elitist 'real' PvPers that PvP for the thrill, if I wanted that I would play team fortress 2, or CoD.

As I said, peace seems to be more balance at the moment, so I will be joining that. Hopefully if war becomes magically good, I'll go over there. But seeing how the war population will be mostly the 'real' PvPers that want Quake: Xsyon Arena with crafting, I doubt it will change.

The War server is the closest to what you are looking for as it really can become a balance between PvP and PvE. Don't give up on it. Join and help to shape the world. If all the people who truly want balance play on the War server it could still be epic. Surely it's better to play on the one that could become the ideal server (with a balance), rather than giving up on it. Who cares if you have to re-roll later. Don't think about the rush to skill maxing, think about the opportunity to shape a community.

[shadowlz]

Please point out exactly where there is any difference in balance?

As has been pointed out already, BOTH servers will start out EXACTLY the same. The only major difference will be that later down the road AFTER defenses & siege mechanics have been put in place War server will have safe zones removed. Until then, the 2 servers are COMPLETELY IDENTICAL. Everyone still has the same safe zones they have now.

War server does not mean all out war starting from day 1. It means you need to plan ahead for the day when he does take the safe zones away.

Jooky said during prelude the safezone will be lifted on War. My guess is siege and warfare wolnt be implemented by then(Or just implemented, removed because it lags, order a new server, 5 weeks later added, then later making a 3rd server for people that want siege warfare). Which is sad because I was hoping my tribe could be destroyed by a giant goonswarm blob bashing on the gate for 3 days.

[TheDevi]

Worst idea ever.

This is going to kill the game in a few months, and we will have 2 ghost servers like the 2 darkfall servers.

No longer recommending my guild mates buy this game.

[SlightlyEvil]

This was the dumbest idea anyone could of thought of, the peace server will be no fun because all the PvPers will be gone so it's basically just a trading game, eventually everyone will quit because there's no risk.

The PvP server will be even worse because it'll be full of naked people punching themselves or using starter weapons because no crafter would touch the place.

I can't think of any reason you guys would of done this, Fallen Earth didn't do it, Eve didn't do it, so why are you guys? This is going to end very badly.

[Jagsman32]

Devs, please ignore this whining. This is a small portion of your actual playing population that is dooming and glooming. The game is on the right path and you are making the right decisions. I agree with the split and I am sure 75% of the players do as well. The loudest mouths are always the smallest percentage that want change. These people complaining are the same that destroyed SWG and many others. They try and change the core concept of the game. Don't let this small percentage change what could be a great game.

[SlightlyEvil]

Worst idea ever.

This is going to kill the game in a few months, and we will have 2 ghost servers like the 2 darkfall servers.

No longer recommending my guild mates buy this game.

Same here, I always told people how it had a great community due to the 1 server, you knew if you met someone playing the game that you could actually play with them, now it's like "Oh sorry, not on your server".

[kaisergod]

Jooky said during prelude the safezone will be lifted on War. My guess is siege and warfare wolnt be implemented by then(Or just implemented, removed because it lags, order a new server, 5 weeks later added, then later making a 3rd server for people that want siege warfare). Which is sad because I was hoping my tribe could be destroyed by a giant goonswarm blob bashing on the gate for 3 days.

Quoted directly from his update:

- Safe zones will be removed during the prelude on the War server when towns can defend themselves. This is not a Chaos or griefer server, but a server for players that want tribal warfare and conquest. This will happen as soon as possible, possibly within a month or two.

My point bolded & underlined.

Now will everyone (not you specifcally shadow) stop throwing whiny little fits of rage and USE YOUR DAMN HEADS LIKE A LOGICAL PERSON. Stop your little temper tantrums and actually READ what the update says, specifically what i just quoted above. As i said before, War server will not be an all out gank fest from day 1. UNTIL the defenses are added i both servers will be IDENTICAL. Safe zones will be in place until AFTER defenses are added.

Stop with your doom & gloom crap just because you cant comprehend what any of this actually means and instead just pick & choose what words you want to read so you have something to complain about. "OMGZ what! WAR server! Oh noez endless ganking and griefing for sure (even though i havent bothered to read any of the details about the difference sin the servers)!"

[orious13]

I think some people need to apologize for causing the nice devs to want to appease those who could not understand the original compromise.

All of those that hate this dearly need to just say "I'm sorry jooky. Your original concept was better and we didn't mean to split up the community with our forum pvp antics." Instead of being the same people now as you were before.

You all need to listen to yourselves. Ask yourself what you've been doing from the moment you've come here. In many games "PvE" players do whine, but in this game it seems to have been the other side that does and still is. Take responsibility... the devs have read your disgust. Their solution is met with further disgust. That's wrong. But in the long run I feel the game will stretch out to more people this way.

The WAR server is for those that want to EVOLVE the game to whatever YOU WANTED with MORE PVP FOCUS.
The PEACE server is for those that wanted to evolve the game with a secondary or tertiary pvp focus.

The game is still in its building stages. You must not take the current community as the final community. You must not GIVE UP as it seems you are. I understand the fear of what this might cause, but I believe that Jooky thinks as more players enter the game, they will choose what style of play best fits their playstyle. It actually makes sense from a development stand point to have servers develop how they want. Sure the war server may be smaller at the beginning, but why not join it and create it into the greatest warfare mmo the genre has yet to see? The peace server seems to be more geared towards fun with a little more fairness.

This is an opportunity for the community...
...to FOR ONCE...
....BUILD THE GAME THAT YOU WANT... within Xsyon's reason of course.

[Ikisis]

Delay The product another couple week's, Push the fog back finish off that fogs area, Hyper thread the 2 server, DONE!!! Just Delay the Launch!!!! Id rather wait then have the Community split i want a full Lush living Good vs Evil world, Not a server full of Evil player's and another full of Good.... Just Delay Just Delay!!!!!

[opiumofzion]

This was the dumbest idea anyone could of thought of, the peace server will be no fun because all the PvPers will be gone so it's basically just a trading game, eventually everyone will quit because there's no risk.

The PvP server will be even worse because it'll be full of naked people punching themselves or using starter weapons because no crafter would touch the place.

I can't think of any reason you guys would of done this, Fallen Earth didn't do it, Eve didn't do it, so why are you guys? This is going to end very badly.

couldnt agree more with this even though i see no point for safe zones after a few months because i feel like after 2-3 months like AlexTalden stated earlier most tribes will be plenty established, a far larger population will go the safer place which is peace. Making two servers with identical rulesets would make more sense in sustaining servers.

[Xsyon]

The WAR server is for those that want to EVOLVE the game to whatever YOU WANTED with MORE PVP FOCUS.
The PEACE server is for those that wanted to evolve the game with a secondary or tertiary pvp focus.

Thank you Orious. This is exactly my goal and I don't understand the commotion.

This is not a good vs evil or PvE vs PvP split. It's an opportunity for those that have been asking for more warfare and conquest to get it. I see this already as an evolution for the crowd that wants more of a war strategy game than I originally planned and designed.

[shadowlz]

Quoted directly from his update:

- Safe zones will be removed during the prelude on the War server when towns can defend themselves. This is not a Chaos or griefer server, but a server for players that want tribal warfare and conquest. This will happen as soon as possible, possibly within a month or two.

My point bolded & underlined.

Now will everyone (not you specifcally shadow) stop throwing whiny little fits of rage and USE YOUR DAMN HEADS LIKE A LOGICAL PERSON. Stop your little temper tantrums and actually READ what the update says, specifically what i just quoted above. As i said before, War server will not be an all out gank fest from day 1. UNTIL the defenses are added i both servers will be IDENTICAL. Safe zones will be in place until AFTER defenses are added.

I will play on which ever i like. I have learned not to take vague desciptions like that to heart when they come form jooky. It could be when people have enough weapons honestly. I Dont know why people cant just leave it at that. I'll be on peace with the majority of the population, not on War with 4 active tribes.

[Kroom]

They try and change the core concept of the game.

What core concepts?

They have been flushed down the toilet...

"...The plan is to evolve this server to focus more on tribal warfare and conquest as quickly as possible..."

"...This server will evolve more for the crafting and building community..." -Xsyon

Yeah, core concepts for everyone! :rolleyes:

Good luck keeping those straight!

[Andar]

Its a theory. I hope it works. However....

I suspect the Peace server will endlessly be targeted by the griefers. After all, it isn't really PvP that they want.

I suspect the War server will collapse quickly due to it being undersubscribed by by crafters.

Only testing the theory will produce the necessary feedback. I hope I'm wrong. :)

[tredo]

The 2 server idea is a great solution to a growing problem.. as far a server merge down the road... doubtful, the 2 servers will advance differently... so where one will be in the stone age for years the other will be traveling to space. Kinda hard to mix the 2 later on.

[kaisergod]

Thank you Orious. This is exactly my goal and I don't understand the commotion.

Its because people only see what they want to see then immediately jump into temper tantrums based on what they didnt understand.

Ill help you here too. Her eis another quote from the update that people need to pay attention to, especially the last sentence, which i bolded:

- Players that seek a world based on tribal warfare and conflict should choose the War server. That's the direction that server will evolve. Again, it will NOT be a Chaos free for all server. Players that want less danger and future consentual tribal PvP should choose the Peace server. The goal here is one of choices and balance.

[Rique]

Reasons stated for the need of two servers:

"The main reason for this is to handle our current game population and anticipated growth over the next few months."

"This limitation along with the recent addition of homesteads is crowding the starting zone with our current population. This is driving creatures too quickly into the green mist and not allowing enough active wilderness areas for creatures to breed. We have some additional changes to creature AI that will help resolve this issue, but at this point a two server solution is necessary."

Both quotes from here (http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/1440-Xsyon-Updates)


First; The need for an email poll seems redundant/unnecessary as the decision looks like it was made long before the email was sent.

Second; If this IS the true reason for the split and the war/peace servers are just a way to placate the Hardcore vrs. Carebear crowd, this game needs to be reviewed before release imo.

I love the concept of this game like nothing else and I feel it is the draw that brings many of use here from other games. Splitting the community is a nail in coffin for MMO's...players WILL leave, populations change and servers need to be merged. Merging servers with this game structure is a train wreck at best, impossible at worst. Like others have stated many times prior...You NEED both sides of the spectrum for this type of game to succeed. (read CCP/Eve Online concept)

If there is technical NEED for multi-servers than this game is not ready to be released and a design review is needed imo. If it is to appease players, then it is a bad judgment call (one that is not too late to correct).

These are just my opinions...

[Dweetybyrd]

Delay The product another couple week's, Push the fog back finish off that fogs area, Hyper thread the 2 server, DONE!!! Just Delay the Launch!!!! Id rather wait then have the Community split i want a full Lush living Good vs Evil world, Not a server full of Evil player's and another full of Good.... Just Delay Just Delay!!!!!

Well said! Ill wait longer if it means the game wont die!!

[Fiasco]

Recommendations:

1. Stick with one server only if able.

2. If population size demands two servers--
1) Set both servers with identical rulesets and timelines so there are no differences between servers
2) Change server names to random names to disassociate from "pvp vs. non-pvp" innuendos

[Raizure]

FOR THE WAR SERVER! Griefing =/= pvp people join up! This is the true vision of the game and i hope the population follows it!

[Chavoda]

If they are being developed into unique paths of play how is that not dividing?!?!?


No they are not, read his message again incl the update.

the only diference will be in mechanics. like
AllowTribeWar=On/Off
Enable_Wardec=On/Off
IF Enable_Wardec "on" AllowTribeWar=on (peace)

Its minor chances that allows one server to have a more free roam warfare, and the otehr server based on the original dev ruleset.

Question is, Are you fine whit how the server now is (in terms of warfare) if yes, peace is for you, if no you want more warfare as soon as possible then War is for you.

and yes that means the servers will develop differently long term in game but the code, the mechanics the what you can do will be exactly the same. its like taking two servers of any random game and compare them, they both have different styles of players its how servers develop over time. some are rp servers, some have more pvp guilds. others are considered family server. it has nothing to do whit the game itself..only whit the players.

The only difference between war and peace will be that on one PvP oriented players can find more PvP while on the other PvP will be outside the save zones like its now or by -choice- tribal PvP.


(random pick by most known...my view..)
That lets say pandemic stands a chance to loose players if they go on the war server is their own fault.. They are among the biggest shouters for more PvP freedom, Joining them in the first place is asking to be a target in a more open PvP environment.
If Pandemic's PvP crew is going to join the "peace" server cource their crafter ain't up to a more PvP focus server then they done something very wrong in their recruitment and whats worse everyting they said sofar in all those "shutup carebear" threads kinda will make them even look worse..
Now I pulled pandemic as a tribe in this post but ofc there are more who done the same they just are among the most vocal forum irc/users

[Rique]

Delay The product another couple week's, Push the fog back finish off that fogs area, Hyper thread the 2 server, DONE!!! Just Delay the Launch!!!! Id rather wait then have the Community split i want a full Lush living Good vs Evil world, Not a server full of Evil player's and another full of Good.... Just Delay Just Delay!!!!!

^^This...or something close to it. There are DOZENS of ideas that have been floated out there.

[kaisergod]

Reasons stated for the need of two servers:

"The main reason for this is to handle our current game population and anticipated growth over the next few months."

"This limitation along with the recent addition of homesteads is crowding the starting zone with our current population. This is driving creatures too quickly into the green mist and not allowing enough active wilderness areas for creatures to breed. We have some additional changes to creature AI that will help resolve this issue, but at this point a two server solution is necessary."

Both quotes from here (http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/1440-Xsyon-Updates)


First; The need for an email poll seems redundant/unnecessary as the decision looks like it was made long before the email was sent.

Second; If this IS the true reason for the split and the war/peace servers are just a way to placate the Hardcore vrs. Carebear crowd, this game needs to be reviewed before release imo.

I love the concept of this game like nothing else and I feel it is the draw that brings many of use here from other games. Splitting the community is a nail in coffin for MMO's...players WILL leave, populations change and servers need to be merged. Merging servers with this game structure is a train wreck at best, impossible at worst. Like others have stated many times prior...You NEED both sides of the spectrum for this type of game to succeed. (read CCP/Eve Online concept)

If there is technical NEED for multi-servers than this game is not ready to be released and a design review is needed imo. If it is to appease players, then it is a bad judgment call (one that is not too late to correct).

These are just my opinions...

I dont get how people can keep equating the 2 servers with a sure failure of the game. EVE? Thats 1 of a couple hundred that worked out well in its situation. In comparison, how many multi server MMOs have been succesful? A hell of a lot more than 1. Like i pointed out in my last post with my quote from the update. Its about choices & balance.

All i see from people like you is trying to force YOUR way of playing on everyone else. The 2 servers gives everyone a way to play their way later down the road. 1 is safe, 1 has a lot of risk. Cant handle the risk? Stick to Peace server. But for now, they ar eboth exactly the same servers.

[benz17]

I'm new to this community but not exactly new to MMORPGs to say the least.

The point most posters here fail to see is that among so called 'true pvpers' (whoever the heck even made that term up) AND among griefers, pks and other people who love to make your life hell on earth and otherwise piss you off as much as possible, there are also people who like to craft good shit to use it to make your life miserable. Also, all these kinds of people are eager to actually get something to piss off other people more effectively and to kill faster or more people at a time, thus making their epeen look even bigger.

This essentially means that, clearly, these two worlds will be very different, but they both will happily co-exist. They will develop in different directions, Peace server developing technologies and more advanced stuff way faster, but having an almost non-changing political surface; while War being less advanced in terms of building and other crap but having more dynamic and healthy environment due to lands changing hands often.

In other words, Peace will eventually have huge cities/castles which rarely change owners, while War will only have what's needed to kill that next person/group/tribe most effectively.

My main point is that, if we take the need for having 2 servers as granted, AND possibly have a choice between having EU/NA OR War/Peace, I'd say the latter is much better. The only better choice would be having two War servers, but, given a (pussy) part of this community, this is hardly possible.

One other thing I'd like to mention is that clans which have internal arguments about whether they should go to War or to Peace, should immediately disband. It's a CLAN, a gathering of people who think alike. You either kill, destroy, conquer, eliminate, burn down, freaking dominate, OR you create, build, smile, develop and live happily forever after. There's no third choice.

That being said, see you on War.

[baka77]

Thank you Orious. This is exactly my goal and I don't understand the commotion.

This is not a good vs evil or PvE vs PvP split. It's an opportunity for those that have been asking for more warfare and conquest to get it. I see this already as an evolution for the crowd that wants more of a war strategy game than I originally planned and designed.

I'm sorry mate, but in this case your intentions are not what will actually be manifested. The two servers will ultimately become Good & Evil on their own because of the players themselves. The more aggressive players are who would have ended up being "evil" if we were on one server - these people will mostly be on the War server. The more reactive/passive players are who would have ended up being "good" if we were on one server - these people will pretty much all be on the Peace server. Good & evil (in a game like this) should have a symbiotic relationship, not be separated.

So, while you may not intend to be making a good server & an evil server, that's what you're gonna get.

[randomt]

Well said! Ill wait longer if it means the game wont die!!

Sure, nothing like an mmo dev running out of money before launch to make a game live.. You have to remember that these things are expensive to run.

[Kroom]

Thank you Orious. This is exactly my goal and I don't understand the commotion.

This is not a good vs evil or PvE vs PvP split. It's an opportunity for those that have been asking for more warfare and conquest to get it. I see this already as an evolution for the crowd that wants more of a war strategy game than I originally planned and designed.

With all do respect… I signed up to play YOUR game.

I get it, regarding the technical limitations but not the pandering and the unnecessary increase in workload.

[kaisergod]

I'm sorry mate, but in this case your intentions are not what will actually be manifested. The two servers will ultimately become Good & Evil on their own because of the players themselves. The more aggressive players are who would have ended up being "evil" if we were on one server - these people will mostly be on the War server. The more reactive/passive players are who would have ended up being "good" if we were on one server - these people will pretty much all be on the Peace server. Good & evil (in a game like this) should have a symbiotic relationship, not be separated.

So, while you may not intend to be making a good server & an evil server, that's what you're gonna get.

You seem to be assuming that all PvPers are only "evil" players. Hate to break to you but you are horribly horribly wrong. There are plenty of us who prefer to fight against the "evil" or "griefer" players. Im actually hoping that you wind up being somewhat right though and mos tof them to align evil so I have more people to fight without having to turn evil myself.

[Burnt]

FOR THE WAR SERVER! Griefing =/= pvp people join up! This is the true vision of the game and i hope the population follows it!

hey look, another pvp'er who thinks his vision of the game is THE vision of the game, nevermind the devs plans for it.

[Rique]

I dont get how people can keep equating the 2 servers with a sure failure of the game. EVE? Thats 1 of a couple hundred that worked out well in its situation. In comparison, how many multi server MMOs have been succesful? A hell of a lot more than 1. Like i pointed out in my last post with my quote from the update. Its about choices & balance.

All i see from people like you is trying to force YOUR way of playing on everyone else. The 2 servers gives everyone a way to play their way later down the road. 1 is safe, 1 has a lot of risk. Cant handle the risk? Stick to Peace server. But for now, they ar eboth exactly the same servers.

CCP/Eve subscription base is well over ALL the other sandbox MMO's ever released, combined, for the last 9'ish years. They are like comparing Bizzards WoW to the other Themepark MMO's. One of the major reasons they are as successful as they are is due to the Tranquility (single server platform). Those are not my numbers but numbers that have been published many times with several gameing sites.

This wasn't meant to be a pissing contest with Indy manufactures. I am just pointing out the attractions for sandbox players and the successful model CCP used.

Also for the record. I am one that would like to see the removal of safe zones if the game mechanics are there to support it.

[benz17]

hey look, another pvp'er who thinks his vision of the game is THE vision of the game, nevermind the devs plans for it.

Hey look, another carebear who thinks he can play a sandbox game never leaving his precious safe zone.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[mindtrigger]

No they are not, read his message again incl the update.

the only diference will be in mechanics. like
AllowTribeWar=On/Off
Enable_Wardec=On/Off
IF Enable_Wardec "on" AllowTribeWar=on (peace)

Its minor chances that allows one server to have a more free roam warfare, and the otehr server based on the original dev ruleset.

Question is, Are you fine whit how the server now is (in terms of warfare) if yes, peace is for you, if no you want more warfare as soon as possible then War is for you.

and yes that means the servers will develop differently long term in game but the code, the mechanics the what you can do will be exactly the same. its like taking two servers of any random game and compare them, they both have different styles of players its how servers develop over time. some are rp servers, some have more pvp guilds. others are considered family server. it has nothing to do whit the game itself..only whit the players.

The only difference between war and peace will be that on one PvP oriented players can find more PvP while on the other PvP will be outside the save zones like its now or by -choice- tribal PvP.


(random pick by most known...my view..)
That lets say pandemic stands a chance to loose players if they go on the war server is their own fault.. They are among the biggest shouters for more PvP freedom, Joining them in the first place is asking to be a target in a more open PvP environment.
If Pandemic's PvP crew is going to join the "peace" server cource their crafter ain't up to a more PvP focus server then they done something very wrong in their recruitment and whats worse everyting they said sofar in all those "shutup carebear" threads kinda will make them even look worse..
Now I pulled pandemic as a tribe in this post but ofc there are more who done the same they just are among the most vocal forum irc/users

WRONG. The MAIN change to the game lies in SPLITTING the community, even if it isn't a 50/50 split. The game just changed on both servers. Neither one of these new servers will be what the old single server would have been with the whole community balanced there.

I will keep saying this until someone understands it: THIS IS A SANDBOX GAME. The players and their many different styles and ideas ARE THE CONTENT.

[randomt]

CCP/Eve subscription base is well over ALL the other sandbox MMO's ever released, combined, for the last 9'ish years. They are like comparing Bizzards WoW to the other Themepark MMO's. One of the major reasons they are as successful as they are is due to the Tranquility (single server platform). Those are not my numbers but numbers that have been published many times with several gameing sites.

This wasn't meant to be a pissing contest with Indy manufactures. I am just pointing out the attractions for sandbox players and the successful model CCP used.

Also for the record. I am one that would like to see the removal of safe zones if the game mechanics are there to support it.

EvE is succesful because it panders to both types of players that Xsyon is now trying to satisfy..

Those who fly Empire, and those who fly 0.0

That's essentially the difference we're looking at with the two servers.. except that the "empire" segment also gets to build POS's anywhere heh

It would be nice if there was the mechanics for that on a single server, but the engine just wasnt designed that way, and there just isnt the space yet

[baka77]

You seem to be assuming that all PvPers are only "evil" players. Hate to break to you but you are horribly horribly wrong. There are plenty of us who prefer to fight against the "evil" or "griefer" players. Im actually hoping that you wind up being somewhat right though and mos tof them to align evil so I have more people to fight without having to turn evil myself.

No, I'm not assuming most PvP players are only evil. There will certainly be some good aligned pvp tribes, but without a moral impetus "good" is just a label. Same goes for evil tribes.

The game needs carebear tribes on the same server as the evil tribes who will terrorize them so the good tribes have someone to actually protect. If there is no sense of protection or danger, the good tribes & evil tribes are just fighting each other for the sake of fighting. The lines get blurred. At that point, good & evil only become superficial labels & have no moral impact or meaning.

That was my point, though I probably could have been clearer about it.

[Burnt]

Hey look, another carebear who thinks he can play a sandbox game never leaving his precious safe zone.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Meh, I saw it coming. I like how you apoligized :), if not I would probably would have replied with a paragraph of rage :P

[kaisergod]

CCP/Eve subscription base is well over ALL the other sandbox MMO's ever released, combined, for the last 9'ish years. They are like comparing Bizzards WoW to the other Themepark MMO's. One of the major reasons they are as successful as they are is due to the Tranquility (single server platform). Those are not my numbers but numbers that have been published many times with several gameing sites.

This wasn't meant to be a pissing contest with Indy manufactures. I am just pointing out the attractions for sandbox players and the successful model CCP used.

Also for the record. I am one that would like to see the removal of safe zones if the game mechanics are there to support it.

Im not trying to compare Indy devs or anything either, quite the opposite. EVE is about the only example of a truly succesful single shard MMO, Indy or otherwise. There have been a couple others that had some success, but EVE is by far the best.

In comparison, youve got tons of succesful multi-server MMOs (some Indy, some not), including the most succesful of all, WoW.

So my point was, how do people logically get to the conclusion that not being single server = doom?

I wasnt accusing you of not being able to handle the war or anything. I was just generalizing that those who dont want/cant handle the risk should stick to Peace server. Those of us who prefer risk & surprises will be on War.

[Rique]

EvE is succesful because it panders to both types of players that Xsyon is now trying to satisfy..

Those who fly Empire, and those who fly 0.0

That's essentially the difference we're looking at with the two servers.. except that the "empire" segment also gets to build POS's anywhere heh

Yes, and it takes BOTH to support the server as a whole. That game would have died on the vine a long time ago if they split up their community like Xsyon is talking about. There are MANY MANY ways that have been talked about to solve the issue without the need for multi-servers...

[zymurgeist]

The elephant in the room is the game can't handle the current population and expected on one server. How many players on a server can this game support?

[Larsa]

Thank you Orious. This is exactly my goal and I don't understand the commotion. ... Come on, Xsyon, that was pure understatement from you, eh?

I'm quite sure that you understand the commotion. We all know there are two types of PvPers. The first one wants to fight against other people that want to fight, to make the fight a measure of skill, strategy and tactic.

The second type of PvPer wants to fight against people that don't want to fight and obviously these players fear that the War server will offer them a less *coughs* victim-rich environment. Or, even worse, it will offer them an environment where players actually fight back. :)

I haven't counted, but how many posts on this thread are from members of one particular tribe?

[Xsyon]

The elephant in the room is the game can't handle the current population on one server. How many players on a server can this game support?

This is not correct. The main issue is not number of players on the server. It's number of tribes and homesteads in the starting area.

However, I thought this would be a good opportunity to give the war gamers what they've been asking for as well.

[randomt]

Yes, and it takes BOTH to support the server as a whole. That game would have died on the vine a long time ago if they split up their community like Xsyon is talking about. There are MANY MANY ways that have been talked about to solve the issue without the need for multi-servers...

They'd have to do multi server one way or the other.. So why not take the opportunity to let the more war orientated types form a social world of warlords, and to let the peaceful types build a more diplomatic world?

Remember.. they have to split the pop either way.. the server doesnt have the capacity or space for everyone and still let new players join the game.

[Rique]

Im not trying to compare Indy devs or anything either, quite the opposite. EVE is about the only example of a truly succesful single shard MMO, Indy or otherwise. There have been a couple others that had some success, but EVE is by far the best.

In comparison, youve got tons of succesful multi-server MMOs (some Indy, some not), including the most succesful of all, WoW.

So my point was, how do people logically get to the conclusion that not being single server = doom?

I wasnt accusing you of not being able to handle the war or anything. I was just generalizing that those who dont want/cant handle the risk should stick to Peace server. Those of us who prefer risk & surprises will be on War.


Blizzard =/= Indy. We are talking about two things here. Sandbox MMO's that have a VASTLY smaller customer base than Themepark MMO's that cater to a MUCH larger audience. Multi-server Themeparks work... Persistent sandbox MMO's that are totally player driven, not so much.

[Umberto]

Do people think pvp minded players can't craft? Lol.


The difference between the 2 servers is so minimal, I can't believe how much of you are crying over it.

[Volcom]

This is not correct. The main issue is not number of players on the server. It's number of tribes and homesteads in the starting area.

However, I thought this would be a good opportunity to give the war gamers what they've been asking for as well.


Simple solution for now would be to add more junk piles away from the starting areas...even takes some piles away from these starting areas if needed. Only reason they are so crowded is due to the tremendous amount of piles around.

[baka77]

This is not correct. The main issue is not number of players on the server. It's number of tribes and homesteads in the starting area.

However, I thought this would be a good opportunity to give the war gamers what they've been asking for as well.


It all comes down to BEARS, BEETS, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA.

Too many peeps mean not enough bears to kill, not enough land for beets to grow, & therefore no chance of evolving to battlestar galactica.

[zymurgeist]

This is not correct. The main issue is not number of players on the server. It's number of tribes and homestead in the starting area.


Thanks for the correction but the result is the same. You need a mechanism for spreading the population or you won't be able to handle the load. You should contact someone who worked on shadowbane. Though the games have different focuses I think you'll find they have much to contribute on the dangers of allowing players too much freedom.

Also will players be able to tear down each others "projects?" If so I can tell you stories of all night wall parties.

[kaisergod]

No, I'm not assuming most PvP players are only evil. There will certainly be some good aligned pvp tribes, but without a moral impetus "good" is just a label. Same goes for evil tribes.

The game needs carebear tribes on the same server as the evil tribes who will terrorize them so the good tribes have someone to actually protect. If there is no sense of protection or danger, the good tribes & evil tribes are just fighting each other for the sake of fighting. The lines get blurred. At that point, good & evil only become superficial labels & have no moral impact or meaning.

That was my point, though I probably could have been clearer about it.

Ah, ok that make smuch more sense. Though unfortunately ive still got to disagree about some of the points.

As it stands now, yes the good & evil are basically just labels without meaning. But remember, the game is going to evolve based on the players. If a good aligned tribe becomes very powerful on the War server and gains enough influence to start steering the world towards their vision of society, then there will be plenty of reason for the 2 sides to fight, much like IRL.

There are those that are willing to fight for the sake of others & for the good of the people, while there are other who are only concerned with gaining power & glory for themselves. Thats going to be, IMO, the biggest difference between the 2 sides. Those who want to fight for good and build a society of lawful citizens all contributing to help eachother out and have fun learning advancing in relative peace. On the other side you will have those who simply want to rule by force for their own personal gain, even if it means tearing down civilization for everyone else, as long a stheir the richest/strongest thats all that matters..

[Rique]

This is not correct. The main issue is not number of players on the server. It's number of tribes and homesteads in the starting area.

However, I thought this would be a good opportunity to give the war gamers what they've been asking for as well.


War gamers w/o crafters and other support from the community doesn't work well and conversely, a crafting community w/o PvP'ers to use there goods is boring. There has to be someway to satisfy both sides without a split.

Again, my opinions.

[Vicid]

What many are missing here is that the devs say each server will evolve with the community.

If that's true then it is quite possible that the war server will have asset destruction and home bases being captured.

The first thing I'm going to post when the War server forum goes up is changing the respawn rules and mitigating the OPness of preorder weapons. Why? Because they screw up PvP and this is the PvP server!

[randomt]

Thanks for the correction but the result is the same. You need a mecanism for spreading the population or you won't be able to handle the load. You should contact someone who worked on shadowbane. Though the games have different focuses I think you'll find they have much to contribute on the dangers of allowing players too much freedom.

The land needs 'free space' for the wildlife and such.. spreading people out isn't going to solve that, it's going to make it worse

[randomt]

War gamers w/o crafters and other support from the community doesn't work well and conversely, a crafting community w/o PvP'ers to use there goods is boring. There has to be someway to satisfy both sides without a split.

Again, my opinions.

How is that any different from DarkFall? Mortal Online? Earthrise? They have crafters plenty. The Peace server is still FFA PVP, the difference is the safe zone and the nature of tribal warfare in the future

[shadowlz]

hopefully this will show any devs out there to just stick with their plans. If you listen to the community either the game sucks, or you piss people off. Why? Because people suck. If you just released like normal, people would of gotten over it.

But since your hell bent on this crap, allow paid character transfers, so if one server turns out to suck, you can goto the otherone. Many people(myself included) are scared of investing time in either 1) A dead server, or 2) A ruleset you don't even like.

[kaisergod]

Blizzard =/= Indy. We are talking about two things here. Sandbox MMO's that have a VASTLY smaller customer base than Themepark MMO's that cater to a MUCH larger audience. Multi-server Themeparks work... Persistent sandbox MMO's that are totally player driven, not so much.

I get that, but the problem is youre thinking seems to be that player driven = absolutely every player in the game has to be on the same server or else there s no point. We have no idea how many players we will end up having, or just how big the world will get, or many many other things. EVE worked as a single shard because of the way it is setup. You have your high sec zones in the earlier areas, and then eventually move on to the low sec areas IF you want to.

Xsyon isnt phased like that though. Basically everywhere you go is low sec, except for your own land and eventually your city. By adding the 2nd server it just change sit a bit so that in the future:
1 server = towns are high sec
1 server = even towns can be low sec

[Klecko]

This is correct. The plan, as I keep saying, is to evolve with the player base. The current player base is pushing in two different directions, so we'll start off this way. If you start off on a server with like minded players you know better what to expect in the future.

Choices and evolution with the community is the plan.

BUT i dont want to play on the carebear server,and i dont want to play on the Darkfall server.I want to play on the Xsyon server when is that server coming online????????

[Kroom]

How is that any different from DarkFall? Mortal Online? Earthrise? They have crafters plenty. The Peace server is still FFA PVP, the difference is the safe zone and the nature of tribal warfare in the future

A lot of the players have abandoned them to come here.

[mindtrigger]

hopefully this will show any devs out there to just stick with their plans. If you listen to the community either the game sucks, or you piss people off. Why? Because people suck. If you just released like normal, people would of gotten over it.

But since your hell bent on this crap, allow paid character transfers, so if one server turns out to suck, you can goto the otherone. Many people(myself included) are scared of investing time in either 1) A dead server, or 2) A ruleset you don't even like.

This is where I am at now. In one Update post this game completely changed today. We went from one big mostly happy community sharing a single game server and forums, to being split into camps, and having two independent communities. This isn't what I paid for. I know I gambled my money when I subbed here but now I don't even know which server I'm supposed to belong to, or rather, which one will have the fun crowd (assuming they both don't die). I guess launch day just got pushed out a month or two for me, and I'm not sure I want to sub at this point.

[Chevron]

Xsyon was going to be a unique game to look forward to. Now it is simply another mmo offering a pvp or pve server with less stability, sub-par graphics, an endless list of broken game mechanics and no combat system lolz.

And please don't state that its not a pve server. Go compare it to several games out there and you will find that the pve server always offers consenual war while the pvp server is open. If i wanted a game like this i would have re downloaded ultima online and played on there pre tram server wich is empty but at least has working mechanics and good combat system or played on thier pve server wich has consensual combat ie go to fel if you wanna fight somone...which by the way is also empty because that is how games like this crash and burn.

Xsyon is just crashing and burning at start oppsing to being sucssesfull like uo was. Xsyon had one attraction and it was unique which is now gone leaving junk piles to sort through.