The Case for War

[Dubanka]

This is a post to lobby for players to play on War.
If you're already of this mindset, please help me out with anything i missed.
If you're on the fence about which server to play on, please read on to help make an informed decision.
If your feet are firmly planted on Peace soil, please take a gander so you can understand what you're missing.


Will you fight for justice to stop the chaos or will you join in the ranks of evil to bring upon the ultimate destruction of the earth?
First paragraph of the game description. Good versus evil. Fight for the right to control a post apocolyptic future of the planet. The very premise of this game is conflict. Embrace it. Conflict gives the PLAYER the ability to ENFORCE peace, or to INCITE chaos. There is is no conflict when there are rules to control it. The game's concept was to be a wide open, choose your destiny, choose the fate of the world game. Sometimes others wont agree with your vision. The question is, do you want to be able to do something about it without their express permission and approval?


The new world hangs in a moment of uncertainty. Though the rift in reality has called forth many benevolent gods and creatures, this truly is the time of the Apocalypse. The seven seals are about to be broken. The Four Horsemen loom over the land awaiting their chance to spread destruction and chaos. Devils and angels vie for control of their earthly battlefield.
Pick a side. Fight for your beliefs. Bring allies to your aid. Lay waste to those who would oppose you. See your world vision brought to life. Without the freedom to act of your own accord, at your own whim and according to your own vision, you will not be able to play out this battle.


Your path is one of choice. Will your actions help heal the planet or will you play a part in its ultimate doom? What will be the destiny of the Xsyon, the promised land?
Or will yo sit back behind your invulnerable walls, in your invulnerable tribe lamenting the fact that your neighbors are taking more than their agreed upon share of resources in the area...You'd like to be able to do something about it, they are jerks most of the time, but alas, they are not agreeable to a battle so..well the campfire sure is perty.


What is Prelude?

Prelude is the first chapter of Xsyon. It is a time of discovery, building, and exploration and will continue through summer as the game evolves to include more content and features.
The MOST glaring lack of content in the game is the lack of pvp mechanics. Will you be on the server that allows for it to be discovered, and explored to it's maximum potential? Or will you habitate a land where it is deemed an afterthought, an unnecessary marketing ploy to attract the more base game players? Player vs player, and guild vs. guild combat is the pinnacle of internet gameplay. Your opponents are real. Their tactics evolve to match and counter your own. They will seek to expose your every weakness so you must use every tool the game provides to ensure you do not yield or faulter. You must be constantly vigilant for you do not know when a hated enemy will choose to strike or a trusted friend deems you expendable and turns on you when yu are most vulnerable. Discover, Explore, Build. You will need every advantage you can find, because you do not know what your rival may bring to the party.
Or, you can just choose to play where you don't have to forced into any action that you'd choose not to engage in.


What type of combat system does Xsyon have?

Combat is twitch based with manual defense with left and right attacks and defense moves (dodging and parrying / blocking). Attack is both targeted and area based to specifically attack the highlighted target and part but also hit any secondary targets within weapon range.
Combat mechanics are currently horrible. Broken even. Not nearly to the level that a pvp community would expect in a game focused on pvp. I don't think it's meant to be this way. Be where you can make a real impact improving these mechanics so that this game becomes something we can recommend to our friends (http://www.playtocrush.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18968&page=4).
Current situation: Suck.
Future: Lets help them make it right.
Or you can choose to play on the server where pvp its viewed as an irritant.


Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones

Open PvP. PvP with consequence. There is no consequence if you can choose to avoid it. Play the game, not a sim.

Summary:
If there is going to be a ghost town, let it be the server where they really only care about playing with themselves and peacfully coexisting with their friends.

Let them experience the thrill of consensual pvp. Let them experience the agony of not really losing something because, well that wasn't in the war agreement. Let them fight heated political battles about why their tribe wont accept a war from another tribe.
If this if what you're after, please play THERE.

If you want to play where every moment is a potentially life or death. Where every seemingly meaningless death could be the straw that pushes nations and alliances into full fledged war. Where your efforts in crafting and city building have real meaning because they will be used and tested under the harshest of conditions. Where political slights and desires outside of the game have real impact on the course of events inside of it. Where you can truly fight for chaos or order. This is server where crafters, logisticians, strategists and tacticians will be fully engaged and able to prove their value to the highest degree. This is the server where LEADERS will emerge to bring war, or peace to the world.

If you truly want to play the game.

Play War.
/cue soundtrack

[baka77]

I'll summarize for you...

If you want to play the coolest game on the face of the planet & win at life, choose WAR.

If you want to play Second Life (post-apocalypse edition), choose PEACE.

[mrcalhou]

I'm not particularly in favor of either rule-set. I'd much rather Eve's rule-set. Except instead of CONCORD to protect people, we should have "angels" or spirits or something.

[JCatano]

Yes, I'm playing on the normal ruleset: War.

Lame name for a server, though.

[baka77]

I'm not particularly in favor of either rule-set. I'd much rather Eve's rule-set. Except instead of CONCORD to protect people, we should have "angels" or spirits or something.

I'm with you, but I've come to the cold realization that what's done is probably done. At this point, I support effort's like Dubanka's to help people choose the WAR server. If we sway enough people, it could turn out to be pretty cool & as good a compromise as we can hope for at this stage.

[mrcalhou]

I'm with you, but I've come to the cold realization that what's done is probably done. At this point, I support effort's like Dubanka's to help people choose the WAR server. If we sway enough people, it could turn out to be pretty cool & as good a compromise as we can hope for at this stage.

If they start to add all sorts of new building types, resources, weapon types, monsters to kill, skill branches, abilities, and "dungeons" soon then yeah. Shikata ga nai, neh?

[pendergraft]

I fear the intricate subtleties of Xsyon's socioeconomic system will be lost under the weight of pro-war rhetoric.

[Dweetybyrd]

I think once the inital panic of 2 servers dies down, many people will see the value and fun in war. We are going there, Im sure many more will.

Im not worried about.. long term exciting gameplay is at war.

[mrcalhou]

I fear the intricate subtleties of Xsyon's socioeconomic system will be lost under the weight of pro-war rhetoric.

I fear the intricate subtleties of Xsyon's socioeconomic system will be lost under the weight of people having too much crafted stuff that they don't need.

[pendergraft]

There's no such thing as too many pairs of grass pants.

[kiwiitis]

Have you forgotten that you can still pvp on the so called carebear server.You are only safe within your tribe/homestead area.You are not immune to conflict. So why all the shouting here?

[Totone]

If they start to add all sorts of new building types, resources, weapon types, monsters to kill, skill branches, abilities, and "dungeons" soon then yeah. Shikata ga nai, neh?

I'm confused. Are you saying these things should be added? I fear one of us is in the wrong game if this is the content thought to be missing.

I don't want any of that. I want a map that displays a tribes holdings, I want Special weapons that can only do damage against buildings, structures and totems. I want a compass, and usable gates. I want a war totem system where I can drop a war totem near an enemy totem, giving the defender notice that he will be open to warfare for a specific time slot. I need more fluid balanced combat without any high fantasy magic as well as a better spawn system. You give me those things and I'm good to go for a long time while the dev's refine the game.

I am confident that there will be a healthy populace on the war server, void of any pk'rs looking for a cheap kill. They will stay behind for the sheep on peace. The gamers who are looking for a deep, immerse game to play, where they can craft for purpose, terraform for purpose, and fight for purpose, will find a fun interactive home on War.

Many of us will die, many of us will loose months of hard work, but most of us will shrug it off, start over and seek revenge. Not all, because lets be honest, some of you just don't have what it takes to play a game you aren't guaranteed to win. All players on War will be invested. This is that special something that most gamers over the past 5 years have not had access too.

Like Dubs said, if your on the fence, think hard about it. Try something different. Play a game where the odds are you will loose everything, more then once. Don't play another game that judges you on your item level. Don't play another game with a guild that wants you do be another "BFF" when really your just another farmer for their stockpiles. Break away from that tribe that says "Hai Hai" <hugs> and over uses <3 signs because you just made your first whashobi bin, with all that fake popularity hypocrisy. Instead of another rinse repeat of the last 10 games you played, where you power leveled to endgame just to find out its the same old same old. Try something new.

Try a game where your actions have repercussions, where your words mean more then just idol general chat. Where you can start an entire server war with a wrong word.

You might just get as addicted as many of us are to the thrill of it all.

[Chavoda]

Good luck on War guys and Gals (mean it) I prefer the Game as it Original Features and explanation today by xsyon (update edit 3) Still cant hurt to have some PvP feedback from the War server to improve Both.

Goes other way around to.

[Umberto]

I support this thread!

I'm unsure on what I am doing but ideally I would like to go war if it has the population.

[Robhood]

Have fun in the War server. I'll read about it in the forums.

[Ikisis]

Have fun in the War server. I'll read about it in the forums.

why even say anything?

[Robhood]

because I can.

[Robhood]

I hope the WAR sever does well. More money for the game is good for everyone.

[Proto]

Well, I'm sold.

and hard.

[Malivius]

I plan to go War, even though I'm not a huge PvPer. I think the atmosphere will be more along the lines of what I envisioned...danger around every corner, etc.

That being said, if the community/gameplay degenerates into DF on the War server, I'll restart on Peace and check it out. I can't handle any more PWNZORSLEET teabagging 5-20v1 gankfests. :)

[boomer0901]

Have you forgotten that you can still pvp on the so called carebear server.You are only safe within your tribe/homestead area.You are not immune to conflict. So why all the shouting here?

ssshhhhh!!

[Badaboom]

I know for a fact that the best server will be the war server. I am Badaboom and I know all. Continue on with your pathetic little lives for I'm an F18 and I'm winning.

[JCatano]

Good luck on War guys and Gals (mean it) I prefer the Game as it Original Features and explanation today by xsyon (update edit 3) Still cant hurt to have some PvP feedback from the War server to improve Both.

Goes other way around to.

The original features are on War. Jordi is BS'ing with his quote below. I explained it in another thread:

"Warfare and conquest was not part of the original design though conflict over claimed resources and player combat was." - Xsyon

Oh yeah? A year ago you said that safe zones would be turned off in tribe areas after a "few months" of Prelude. Later, that turned into "6 months". Recently, it morphed into "6-9 months" (when Prelude ends). You even replied to me via PM to confirm that safety was being turned off after Prelude, and wouldn't be any type of switch. The Official FAQ in the Developer section states tribal/totem conquer, asset destruction at any time, and raids on other tribes. It seems some particular people got into your ear over the past year, though. ;)

---

I'm happy with 2 different servers, though. You guys got what you wanted, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

[ifireallymust]

I will play on both. Because I'm mainly and often entirely a solo player, I don't expect the War server to be my primary server. Not even close. I expect War to go the way of the zerg. Which is fine with me if that's what ends up happening, because I will always have a home on Peace.

That's all I ever wanted in a sandbox, a way to solo without fearing the zerg's power to destroy everything I build every time they're bored and take a notion to pay me a visit. So Peace makes me, as a solo player (and mainly trader, crafter, and explorer, rather than PvPer), very happy.

On the other hand, I'm dying to try out different fortification ideas, so instead of cowering in my mud hut when I'm on the war server, I'll probably be standing on my freshly-built walls, shouting to every tribe for miles around to come knock them down!

[dreampod]

What is the purpose of walls without armies to hold at bay? What need for a blade without without an enemies blood to spill?

As a player who intends to focus more on the crafting and building end of the game I plan on playing where what I do matters, where people need the weapons and armor I craft, and where the walls I built keep them safe instead of a magic safety zone. I already have minecraft if I just want to build stuff without a purpose. I play Xsyon to rebuild the shattered world where my actions matter. I play WAR!

[PrinceReaper]

What is the purpose of walls without armies to hold at bay? What need for a blade without without an enemies blood to spill?

As a player who intends to focus more on the crafting and building end of the game I plan on playing where what I do matters, where people need the weapons and armor I craft, and where the walls I built keep them safe instead of a magic safety zone. I already have minecraft if I just want to build stuff without a purpose. I play Xsyon to rebuild the shattered world where my actions matter. I play WAR!

this

I PLAY WAR!

[jumpshot]

I think we should be urging people to play on Peace server.

I don't want the lag, crashes, and overpopulation.

Thanks!

[Vandali]

Since the develpers have decided to try and separate the player base there is no option other than to go with War(I'll refer to it as Utopia for now).

Why choose Utopia instead of Oppression(Peace)? Your have the freedom that the game originally intended. A world where crafter bees are as integral as the warrior, a world that the players can shape without restrictions, a game world where the player really is the most important mechanic and the only restrictions are those that the players create themselves, in other words, a sandbox.

Utopia here we come!

[Zenmaster13]

Since the develpers have decided to try and separate the player base there is no option other than to go with War(I'll refer to it as Utopia for now).

Why choose Utopia instead of Oppression(Peace)? Your have the freedom that the game originally intended. A world where crafter bees are as integral as the warrior, a world that the players can shape without restrictions, a game world where the player really is the most important mechanic and the only restrictions are those that the players create themselves, in other words, a sandbox.

Utopia here we come!

Alot of misguided, delusional, knuckle-dragger comments in this thread. I will play on both, because that is clearly the most flexible option. The only ones trying to divide the community are people who write threads like this, but since intelligence and reasoning are lacking, they are blinded by thier own bias. Qualifying words with your own opinions, makes your arguments invalid.

[Vandali]

Alot of misguided, delusional, knuckle-dragger comments in this thread. I will play on both, because that is clearly the most flexible option. The only ones trying to divide the community are people who write threads like this, but since intelligence and reasoning are lacking, they are blinded by thier own bias. Qualifying words with your own opinions, makes your arguments invalid.

So with your enlightened zen being, you suggest we play the same game, one with restrictions, one without on two different servers. I'm curious to the benefits of your way, please share your path to enlightenment.

[Atreyu]

Just a question that will help make up my mind, does anybody know how the mechanics will work? Will it literally be a case of, I build a homestead, 5 of us populate it. We spend a month building it up nice and good, then "Tribe-Zerg" come along and kill us and destroy and conquer us? Then what do we do? Is it going to be a case of join a big tribe that can defend itself against other big tribes or play peace server??

[Doc]

Just a question that will help make up my mind, does anybody know how the mechanics will work? Will it literally be a case of, I build a homestead, 5 of us populate it. We spend a month building it up nice and good, then "Tribe-Zerg" come along and kill us and destroy and conquer us? Then what do we do? Is it going to be a case of join a big tribe that can defend itself against other big tribes or play peace server??

Yup, thats utopia for ya :) Join the zerg or die.

[NexAnima]

Just a question that will help make up my mind, does anybody know how the mechanics will work? Will it literally be a case of, I build a homestead, 5 of us populate it. We spend a month building it up nice and good, then "Tribe-Zerg" come along and kill us and destroy and conquer us? Then what do we do? Is it going to be a case of join a big tribe that can defend itself against other big tribes or play peace server??

No one really knows, this thread is filled with propaganda and assumptions. The only way to know is to wait and see, but remember they are going to be the same for about a month or so if things go as planned then the war SZs drop. After that it's up to the players on what direction they take it.

[Vandali]

Just a question that will help make up my mind, does anybody know how the mechanics will work? Will it literally be a case of, I build a homestead, 5 of us populate it. We spend a month building it up nice and good, then "Tribe-Zerg" come along and kill us and destroy and conquer us? Then what do we do? Is it going to be a case of join a big tribe that can defend itself against other big tribes or play peace server??

It would be very unlikely that conquests would involve the destruction of players tribal area's, that would be a mechanic thats easily abused by larger clans. Your more likely find a feudal system where you might find yourselves under the rule of a conquerer, with a percentage of your resources going in their pockets.

This is just speculation, but from the devs own mouths griefing will not be tolerated and destroying someones home because you can, would be griefing. It's more likely that you may be able to create resource outposts in the future that could be destroyed and taken, something along those lines.

[Aethaeryn]

There is almost no difference other than timing on safe zones being removed. It was stated that things won't be "developed" more for one server or the other. . just changes in switches and settings.

There won't be cool defensive towers on WAR and not on PEACE. I would almost say that once they are in on PEACE people will want to use them and start dropping their safety flag etc. Once they are dropped they can not be turned back on.

Seriously. . .it is just two servers. . . just named differently to stop the QQ on both sides.

To NexAnima: It does seem like a "come hang with the cool kids . . so we have more people to kill" kind of thing.

[Cracky69]

What is the purpose of walls without armies to hold at bay? What need for a blade without without an enemies blood to spill?

As a player who intends to focus more on the crafting and building end of the game I plan on playing where what I do matters, where people need the weapons and armor I craft, and where the walls I built keep them safe instead of a magic safety zone. I already have minecraft if I just want to build stuff without a purpose. I play Xsyon to rebuild the shattered world where my actions matter. I play WAR!

I'm with you on this one.

As far as I am concerned it is just a game - not my second life or something like that. I really don't care if I 'lose'.

Even if someone destroys everything I've made they will not take away all my skills, or experience so I may be able to fight back against them at a later date. Furthermore, I've personally never 'invested' time in an MMO that has actually been worth anything tangible. It really doesn't worry me if I'm beaten. I've quit numerous MMOs through boredom anyway so I've got nothing to lose playing on the 'funnest' server.

My play style is crafter/explorer, but i will still chose to play on War!

[Salvadore]

PHENOMENAL post by the op!

Let us all help evolve the WAR server to where it should be!

Safezones are an easily exploitable loophole for the ones that fear risk, imo.

See you on the War server!!!

[Dubanka]

Seriously. . .it is just two servers. . . just named differently to stop the QQ on both sides.

But it's not.
The primary differences between the two servers are, based on what we know now, 3:
1) Consensual PvP.

One last clarification as I need to focus on other things: Consensual warfare would mean tribes choosing to be warring tribes or not. This would be a permanent or difficult to reverse choice, not a switch and would have benefits. Wild areas will remain as open PvP areas on both servers.
The ability to opt out of the meta game...The ability to play the game without consequences. This destroyes the concept of an open world since you create a group that is playing by a different set a rules, a group that is protected by code. This is kind of a big deal.

2.
Players that seek a world based on tribal warfare and conflict should choose the War server. That's the direction that server will evolve. Again, it will NOT be a Chaos free for all server. Players that want less danger and future consensual tribal PvP should choose the Peace server
If you want to play the game without training wheels, there is only one option.

3.
Both servers will evolve with each player base. The plan is and will always be to evolve with what the player base wants.
This is the most obvious difference. We've really got 2 distinct groups here. One group believes they have the right to be left in peace to play the game as they want to play it. The other group believes that the game world should have as few restrictions as possible, to allow the players the ability to determine war, peace, trade. If if believe that spending the $40 gives you the right to uninterupted, peaceful gameplay...play on peace. If you want to play on a server that offers the best chance for the players to entirely determine econonic, diplomatic, and conflict related agendas, play on war.

As I stated in the initial post, this is purely self serving propaganda.
My goal is to attract a majority population to War.
I want to make the case that Peace is not a viable option for anyone that actually wants to play the game.
War represents the highest level of player freedom, and thus is the best option for anyone actually wanting to play the sandbox.

[Kroom]

Have you forgotten that you can still pvp on the so called carebear server.You are only safe within your tribe/homestead area.You are not immune to conflict. So why all the shouting here?

Because uber e-peens would shrink playing on a server titled “Peace”…

[BigCountry]

No more War server.....this guy has lost his marbles....he needs to make up his mind...lol

FAIL

[Dubanka]

No more War server.....this guy has lost his marbles....he needs to make up his mind...lol

FAIL

No split is the best solution...i think that's what we all really want.
The switch is pretty lame. Exploitable (put your logistics in a non agressive tribe, make a warring tribe for conquest purposes).

hmm new thread inc.

[Kroom]

YES!!!

Guys, I want you to hunt me down and bash in my head!

I want to be looking over my shoulder… I just worried about the different development path of two servers.

[Sirius]

Dubs are you on crack? There aren't going to be 2 servers.

I read that on the forums! :D

[Dubanka]

Dubs are you on crack? There aren't going to be 2 servers.

I read that on the forums! :D

a lot changes in a day :p

[Sirius]

Bah. I play dumb, and you respond by playing dumb? Touche.

Btw I just tried to register on the forums, but I couldn't because the CAPTCHA image isn't working. Sent an email to the admin.

[Aethaeryn]

But it's not.
The primary differences between the two servers are, based on what we know now, 3:
1) Consensual PvP.

The ability to opt out of the meta game...The ability to play the game without consequences. This destroyes the concept of an open world since you create a group that is playing by a different set a rules, a group that is protected by code. This is kind of a big deal.

2.
If you want to play the game without training wheels, there is only one option.

3.
This is the most obvious difference. We've really got 2 distinct groups here. One group believes they have the right to be left in peace to play the game as they want to play it. The other group believes that the game world should have as few restrictions as possible, to allow the players the ability to determine war, peace, trade. If if believe that spending the $40 gives you the right to uninterupted, peaceful gameplay...play on peace. If you want to play on a server that offers the best chance for the players to entirely determine econonic, diplomatic, and conflict related agendas, play on war.

As I stated in the initial post, this is purely self serving propaganda.
My goal is to attract a majority population to War.
I want to make the case that Peace is not a viable option for anyone that actually wants to play the game.
War represents the highest level of player freedom, and thus is the best option for anyone actually wanting to play the sandbox.

Obviously it does not matter now but I will add this rebuttal. I suppose I was focusing on this "- The differences between servers will be slight. This will not require a lot of additional development, just a matter of settings and switches in the code."

That being said he could have only meant that in relation with the first 6 months or so. And who knows. . maybe they will still launch with 2. . I mean it was only yesterday we had two right ? :P Also Jordi did say he only slept a little before making the more recent decision :)

I do agree with you though 100%. . the only way a server based on building would survive in my eyes is with "resets". I would have been on the war server even though I have a more balanced approach to gameplay.