Naked Gankers WTF?!

[Kropos]

There seen to be a lot of people running about stark naked attacking and killing people with weapons and armour fairly easily. Is this because weapons/armour are only cosmetic hindrances to fighting prowess? Are they using some exploit? I find it fairly disconcerting when some naked bald guy is beating the crap out of me with his fists as I swing two axes at him to little effect. :o How does combat work in this game?

Btw I'm having great fun :). Just a little confused about combat.

[baka77]

There seen to be a lot of people running about stark naked attacking and killing people with weapons and armour fairly easily. Is this because weapons/armour are only cosmetic hindrances to fighting prowess? Are they using some exploit? I find it fairly disconcerting when some naked bald guy is beating the crap out of me with his fists as I swing two axes at him to little effect. :o How does combat work in this game?

Btw I'm having great fun :). Just a little confused about combat.

The "combat" system we have right now is just a place holder really. All weapons except the pre-order axe are terrible. Fists are far & away the best combat option because they are 3x faster than pre-order weapons & still do good damage. Armor appears to be pointless right now. There are manual blocking & dodging actions, but trying to use those is akin to bending over.

[jumpshot]

Two things at work here.

One, there's a semi common bug where people appear to be naked and swinging nothing when they are in fact geared.

Second, atm when we are "geared" it is pretty safe to say that it is pretty crappy gear! I'm willing to bet everything anybody is wearing is very low quality. That being said it does make a difference... maybe about 20% mitigation? This is not going to win a fight for you, though.

Third on my list of two things... if they are running around ganking and you are running around crafting, they probably have both a better character for combat and more experience with combat.

In closing, my tip to you is prioritize hitting them with your named weapon more than anything.

[Aramanu]

unarmed is way over-powered atm and it will be looked into, so i guess expect a nerf to unarmed soon.

[BigCountry]

The "combat" system we have right now is just a place holder really. All weapons except the pre-order axe are terrible. Fists are far & away the best combat option because they are 3x faster than pre-order weapons & still do good damage. Armor appears to be pointless right now. There are manual blocking & dodging actions, but trying to use those is akin to bending over.

/this

[Xidian]

I've tested low quality stuff and it did about 10-15% mitigation from fists and weapons.

[coca]

/this

+2

[mgilbrtsn]

+2

+3

[Dubanka]

I've tested low quality stuff and it did about 10-15% mitigation from fists and weapons.
= pointless when compared to the dps of a PO weapon.

when 4 hits = 130% of you're life, does 15% mean anything? nope.

[Sirius]

I have not found this to be a problem.

Nothing to see here.

[Zephyr]

See, the problem here is not necessarily the risk to crafters/gatherers, but the threat of boredom.

If naked punchers are the best way to pvp now, that's maybe not so bad, after all, we're all desperate survivors fighting over a few scraps.

If naked punchers are still the best way to pvp in three months, after crafters have skilled up and created decent weapons and armor for their tribes, then we have a serious problem. Then the game will always only be about naked punching, and that will get boring fast.

[Dubanka]

going to agree with the hopi here.

i feel dirty ;)

[mindtrigger]

Can we all agree that this game isn't finished yet? You can argue all day about what doesn't work in the game yet, or if the game is ready for release, but that depends on you. As people who are playing a very niche, indy game made by a small developer, we might want to understand that Prelude is basically a beta product by common measures.

I personally think it's cool that we get to be a part of the early process of a very neat game. I understand some stuff doesn't work and that other players will be exploiting it until it is fixed. I know I can leave and come back later in development if that becomes too much to deal with.

[Vicid]

Devs say they will Nurf unarmed but the PO weps aren't scheduled for nurfing

Unfortunately this means naked PvP with a PO wep is an easy and risk free way of killing someone and taking their hard earned gear.

[Dubanka]

Can we all agree that this game isn't finished yet? You can argue all day about what doesn't work in the game yet, or if the game is ready for release, but that depends on you. As people who are playing a very niche, indy game made by a small developer, we might want to understand that Prelude is basically a beta product by common measures.

I personally think it's cool that we get to be a part of the early process of a very neat game. I understand some stuff doesn't work and that other players will be exploiting it until it is fixed. I know I can leave and come back later in development if that becomes too much to deal with.

this is a fine explanation when you're volunteering to test a game in an admittedly alpha or beta state.

This is a fine explanation when you're talking about fleshing out the game, niche elemtns within the game, or 'end game' elements that would be a couple months of play time out anyway.

But...
We are talking about a game (cool concept, incredible potential, dedicated indi dev, blah blah) that we paid real money to play.
We are talking about the most basic of gameplay mechanics.
We are talking about th emost basic of balance elements.

So, rather than asking for a refund for being sold a bill of goods that was more than a few items short compared to what was on the bill of sale, they can keep my money as a deposit for GETTING THINGS FIXED IN A TIMELY MANNER. I understand that things like tribal warfare, seiging, advanced&improved combat mechanics are all features that they will be getting too as soon as possible...while the implementation of these things is the fundemental reason i purchased the game...the here and now REQUIRES that the existing situation be 'not broken'.

As an investor in this here product, I will holler and scream to the best of my ability when something seems wonky, broken, or just downright stupid. That's me as an investor trying to make this here product a certifiable success.

[Jasdemi]

See, the problem here is not necessarily the risk to crafters/gatherers, but the threat of boredom.

If naked punchers are the best way to pvp now, that's maybe not so bad, after all, we're all desperate survivors fighting over a few scraps.

If naked punchers are still the best way to pvp in three months, after crafters have skilled up and created decent weapons and armor for their tribes, then we have a serious problem. Then the game will always only be about naked punching, and that will get boring fast.
Your name in your sig is wrong.

[mindtrigger]

this is a fine explanation when you're volunteering to test a game in an admittedly alpha or beta state.

This is a fine explanation when you're talking about fleshing out the game, niche elemtns within the game, or 'end game' elements that would be a couple months of play time out anyway.

But...
We are talking about a game (cool concept, incredible potential, dedicated indi dev, blah blah) that we paid real money to play.
We are talking about the most basic of gameplay mechanics.
We are talking about th emost basic of balance elements.

So, rather than asking for a refund for being sold a bill of goods that was more than a few items short compared to what was on the bill of sale, they can keep my money as a deposit for GETTING THINGS FIXED IN A TIMELY MANNER. I understand that things like tribal warfare, seiging, advanced&improved combat mechanics are all features that they will be getting too as soon as possible...while the implementation of these things is the fundemental reason i purchased the game...the here and now REQUIRES that the existing situation be 'not broken'.

As an investor in this here product, I will holler and scream to the best of my ability when something seems wonky, broken, or just downright stupid. That's me as an investor trying to make this here product a certifiable success.

Well, I guess I can expect to see your flame post on the 15th then. Might as well start writing it now, save it in Notepad so you can post it when the time comes. ;)

[Dubanka]

Well, I guess I can expect to see your flame post on the 15th then. Might as well start writing it now, save it in Notepad so you can post it when the time comes. ;)

nah, gonna wager i'd just get lost in that sea of hate :) I can actually deal with that type of problem...it is expected at any launch...no one's hardware is typically spec'd for the peak pop to be all on, all doing peak processing type stuff...you ahve to assume it will be ugly, and that it will get better.

now basic mechanics those are elements that SHOULD be working, and working correctly, since their are fundemental to game play. Those are more deserving of repeated flameage...squeaky wheel hypothesis and all that.

[orious13]

now basic mechanics those are elements that SHOULD be working, and working correctly, since their are fundemental to game play. Those are more deserving of repeated flameage...squeaky wheel hypothesis and all that.

When I bought this game my first thought was that I'm paying for the pre-game. The devs have "never" hided the fact that the game was not complete. We bought the product "as is" as stated in the TOS with the ability to figure out what all of that "as is" incorporated.

[Dubanka]

When I bought this game my first thought was that I'm paying for the pre-game. The devs have "never" hided the fact that the game was not complete. We bought the product "as is" as stated in the TOS with the ability to figure out what all of that "as is" incorporated.

not to derail much more :p but the adverts was 'head start' to launch, not 'paid beta'.

all the board traffic was 'runs great'

every mmo is in a perpetual state of development, so tweakage is a fact of life.

but when basic mechanics are broken, that can't be any anybody's best interest, and letting someone think that its 'all right' that their broken, really isn't in there best interest either...since not many people are going to play a broken game.

[Haphazard]

I got to side with Dubanka on this one. The basically broken combat system IS a "feature" which absolutely needs to be addressed as quickly as possible. It has already caused a few folks to decide to ask for a refund, and the longer it remains unaddressed, the more folks who will quit in disgust, or never join at all. To say that the cards were on the table in terms of "Prelude" versus the next expansion, the combat system is table stakes, and needs to be fixed now. Its not a feature which can be added later. Its a feature which is in the current product which is broken.

[mindtrigger]

I don't disagree with him at all, and I think it is everyone's right to ask for a refund if they don't get what they paid for. I just don't see it as a big deal during the first month of the game, personally. I understand what I paid for.

[orious13]

The only thing that I am saying is that we weren't left in the dark about the state of the game systems. Yet we chose to buy it anyway.

[BigCountry]

We are talking about the most basic of gameplay mechanics.

I agree here 100%. How can armor not do a damn thing? That is just too basic to be missing....

[Sirius]

The only thing that I am saying is that we weren't left in the dark about the state of the game systems. Yet we chose to buy it anyway.

What Dubanka is saying is that this game will be largely worthless and probably DOA unless this very crucial and basic game feature is fixed in a timely manner. He's also being quite constructive about it and raving about the potential this game obviously has. He's not asking for a refund.

[orious13]

I agree here 100%. How can armor not do a damn thing? That is just too basic to be missing....

Some people have tested it and say they've had 15-20% mitigation with the poor/junk quality they could make and wearing incomplete sets. Truth or not I don't know.


What Dubanka is saying is that this game will be largely worthless and probably DOA unless this very crucial and basic game feature is fixed in a timely manner. He's also being quite constructive about it and raving about the potential this game obviously has. He's not asking for a refund.

Yes, but it's not a low priority fix. It's a high priority one. They said (early this month) combat fixes would be scheduled for within the first month after release, but as it stands now I'm not sure if it'll be that quick. I also took that into consideration when buying.

[Sirius]

I confess I'm confused as to what you're saying then. Aren't you in agreement with Dubanka?

[Shukano]

Some people have tested it and say they've had 15-20% mitigation with the poor/junk quality they could make and wearing incomplete sets. Truth or not I don't know.

Confirmed against PO axe. Took about 2/3 of total hp on average with a hit while naked, and about 1/2 of total hp with mix/match leather armor (no helmet).

Weapon is still pretty OP though lol....

[orious13]

I confess I'm confused as to what you're saying then. Aren't you in agreement with Dubanka?

lol...
I'm more along the lines of trigger. I don't disagree with him, but it's not like the devs are clueless. They already have mechanics in mind. I'm just pretty chill about it I guess and don't see any cause to worry............yet.

[Sirius]

But, there's currently no endgame whatsoever.

Set up tribe --> craft --> do nothing

[baka77]

But, there's currently no endgame whatsoever.

Set up tribe --> craft --> do nothing

HELLO?!??! Role-playing!!!!

Maybe we could get everyone together on Founder's Island for a fashion show or maybe host our own "Amazing Race" where the winner gets fame & glory!!!

ZOMG...that will be so much better than destroying villages & drinking the tears of dead noobs.

/giddy

[Dubanka]

Confirmed against PO axe. Took about 2/3 of total hp on average with a hit while naked, and about 1/2 of total hp with mix/match leather armor (no helmet).

Weapon is still pretty OP though lol....

this was about the same conclusion we came up with.

bottom line you die in 2 or 3 hits vs. a po weapon, armor or no armor...Except armor makes you easier to kill because it slows you down considerably.

speed kills

of course combat needs to be slowed down in general, but that's another discussion.

and yes, we found armor to have some effect, just not a meaningful one compared to the weapons being used, hence a couple posts on bringing down the level of the PO weapons a little bit.
- they can still hit harder, be faster, be more efficient, and look cooler, than anything in game, and still be somewhat balanced compared to what we'll be wearing on our bodies for the first 30-45 days.

[MrKrueak]

But, there's currently no endgame whatsoever.

Set up tribe --> craft --> do nothing

There is no end game in a sandbox

[Roxout]

Here's an idea. How about we let the game launch and let som crafters start making better quality stuff THEN make an assesment.

[Sirius]

There is no end game in a sandbox

Uhm. WTF is this supposed to mean, exactly? Yes there is.

[BigCountry]

There is no end game in a sandbox

Sure there is. lol what kind of statement is that?

[Dubanka]

the endgame should be a perpetual loop...so there is 'no end', but there is a point where your focus has to be placed on something that can repeated, and still be interesting.

ie.
gather resources
conflict over resources
craft gear
craft seige equip
decare war
conquer city
lose city to counter offensive,

so, rather than call it an end game...it's, what do you do once you've maxed out everything you care to max out? The answer to that question is 'the end game' ;)

[Sirius]

I just want to help clarify something for players who might get confused by what you're saying. This phenomenon you referred to as "the end game" is known by most players as simply the "end game". It's what you do when you've done everything else.

[WARNING! This doesn't mean the game is actually going to end! It only refers to a stage of the game that occurs after everything else. Hence it is referred to as the "end game".]

Anyway, this game currently lacks one. It's a problem.

[Zephyr]

There is no endgame in this style of play, there is simply getting bored. When people get bored with a sandbox mmo, they decide they've reached the endgame. As long as they keep finding new and interesting things to do, they don't see an endgame.

[Sirius]

Eh, what is this pseudo-Zen crap? There most certainly is an endgame to this type of game. It's called conquest and politics. Everything else is instrumental.

This ain't The Sims.

[jumpshot]

1) can we not base our opinions on what happens when we have the shittiest armor in the game? I'm not sure this is the most intelligent basis for an argument. Armor HAS mitigation, so it's not "broke." It's not MUCH mitigation because ITS CRAP ARMOR.

2) can we stop taking the term "end-game" so literally? This has derailed more than one thread... its like saying "but when I'm high level I'm not actually 50 feet above someone! wtf!?"

3) if you are standing still letting someone punch you enough times to kill you before you hit them 2-3 times with your PO weapon... then I dunno man. You are probably AFK and/or wouldn't of won the fight anyway.

[BigCountry]

1) can we not base our opinions on what happens when we have the shittiest armor in the game? I'm not sure this is the most intelligent basis for an argument. Armor HAS mitigation, so it's not "broke." It's not MUCH mitigation because ITS CRAP ARMOR.

2) can we stop taking the term "end-game" so literally? This has derailed more than one thread... its like saying "but when I'm high level I'm not actually 50 feet above someone! wtf!?"

3) if you are standing still letting someone punch you enough times to kill you before you hit them 2-3 times with your PO weapon... then I dunno man. You are probably AFK and/or wouldn't of won the fight anyway.



So what does one have to do in order to get armor with mitigation?

Could your clarify?

So far everything I have tested/worn does pretty much nothing. From grass to leather, to even bone.

[jumpshot]

Pretty much nothing and nothing are different.

I would imagine making something better than "junk quality" would be a good place to start.

[BigCountry]

So 25-30 skill is worthless? Why even put it in then? Start us at 0, if 0 = 25?

I have worn a full set of Daogwa assault. And it did the same as me being naked. How is that possible? It's either not implemented, or implemented very half/ass, shitty.
lol

[jumpshot]

I don't know what effects armor quality, be it skill or material or luck or tools. Seems like a different subject to me.

But while we're on it, I since you can start with 25 skill i wouldn't imagine 25 skill is giving "endgame" results.



Full set of junk quality grass armor?


... lol is right.

[Dubanka]

I don't know what effects armor quality, be it skill or material or luck or tools. Seems like a different subject to me.

But while we're on it, I since you can start with 25 skill i wouldn't imagine 25 skill is giving "endgame" results.



Full set of junk quality grass armor?


... lol is right.

you will have a bunch of naked people with po axes running around for the first 45-60 days of the game.
3 hits with a po axe does ~140% of your total hps. 15% mitigagion means nothing, you're still dead in 3 hits.
junk quality, poor quality, whatever. it still does not provide a material benefit that outweighs being slowed down considerable (still die in 3 hits.

if the armor isn't broken, then the po weapon is...putting a 'near end game' weapon in the hands of people who cant make gear to mitigate that damage for quite a whiel = recipe for naked gank syndrome. It completely destroyes the point of crafting, except for just grinding it. I don't think that's the intent of the system.

[Burnt]

Did everyone forget pvp at the moment is just a placeholder? I'm not surprised people are complaining, but why not wait till they actually work on the pvp before complaining about it? While I am on the topic, safe-zones are there because of this as well. pvp/tribal-warfare/protection is just not there yet, so worry more about building up your tribe and less about place-holder mechanics :P

[Dubanka]

pvp/tribal-warfare/protection is just not there yet, so worry more about building up your tribe and less about place-holder mechanics :P

following this advice leads to things not getting prioritized correctly. pvp is a significant portion of this game. the mechanics that drive the pvp are hugely important. 'Not worrying' about a significant portion of the game that is broken, would be a bad thing.

[MrKrueak]

Uhm. WTF is this supposed to mean, exactly? Yes there is.


Sure there is. lol what kind of statement is that?

just poking fun at some here, people worry to much and take things too seriously when in the end this is just a game and will continue to evolve as time passes. It was widely know that not all the features were in game yet including the combat system. What is here now is simply a place holder. Yes it may drive some off the game but personally i think this game will benefit from a small community. bigger is not always better.

[Chavoda]

following this advice leads to things not getting prioritized correctly. pvp is a significant portion of this game. the mechanics that drive the pvp are hugely important. 'Not worrying' about a significant portion of the game that is broken, would be a bad thing.

getting prioritized correctly acording to you and some others, ..stop setting priorities and let the devs sort it out eh..

-pvp placeholder
-armor has migration /stats
-nobody in game has decent armor
-come back when you tested it serious, and testing is, grinding a toon up to make all the armor sets at highest craft level , then you know what your talking about.

[Sirius]

1) can we not base our opinions on what happens when we have the shittiest armor in the game? I'm not sure this is the most intelligent basis for an argument. Armor HAS mitigation, so it's not "broke." It's not MUCH mitigation because ITS CRAP ARMOR.

Just a suggestion: no armor should be utterly worthless. Saying "it's the worst armor, what do you expect?" is hardly a sensible or intelligent response. Armors should be tweaked to the point where they are useful.

[Sirius]

1) can we not base our opinions on what happens when we have the shittiest armor in the game? I'm not sure this is the most intelligent basis for an argument. Armor HAS mitigation, so it's not "broke." It's not MUCH mitigation because ITS CRAP ARMOR.

Just a suggestion: no armor should be utterly worthless. Saying "it's the worst armor, what do you expect?" is hardly a sensible or intelligent response. Armors should be tweaked to the point where they are useful.

[Dubanka]

getting prioritized correctly acording to you and some others, ..stop setting priorities and let the devs sort it out eh..

-pvp placeholder
-armor has migration /stats
-nobody in game has decent armor
-come back when you tested it serious, and testing is, grinding a toon up to make all the armor sets at highest craft level , then you know what your talking about.

OK, so what you're saying is that you're cool with naked+po weapon pvp for the first 30-45 days, and you're totally good with anything you craft until [70?80?) skill being completely worthless in 'real world' application.

great.

[Chavoda]

ITs not worthless and yes thats how every single game works in case you dint know it yet..
You start whit crap and you use the crap to get better crap to make slightly ok stuff then in turn you use to make ok stuff and in turn you use that to make fine stuff and whit fine stuff you make slight better stuff and ..............

In a themepark you start at lvl one.. in a sandbox to , you just don't see fancy numbers. this ain't a fps.. things have to grow. that you find every other aspect of the game stupid and worthless is your own thing..

[Dubanka]

ITs not worthless and yes thats how every single game works in case you dint know it yet..
You start whit crap and you use the crap to get better crap to make slightly ok stuff then in turn you use to make ok stuff and in turn you use that to make fine stuff and whit fine stuff you make slight better stuff and ..............

In a themepark you start at lvl one.. in a sandbox to , you just don't see fancy numbers. this ain't a fps.. things have to grow. that you find every other aspect of the game stupid and worthless is your own thing..

Have you pvp'd?

because the entire point im making IS YOU SPAWN WITH A HI QUALITY HI DAMAGE WEAPON AND YOU HAVE NO ABILITY TO MITIGATE THAT DAMAGE FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

so yes, in a typical situation, you start out with nothing, and gradually get better. In this situation you start out a weapon that is vastly superior to any counter measures you'll be able to effectively employ for quite some time.

I just want to make sure, because i can see the tears rolling now for the legions of 'naked griefers' (15-20) roaming the world terrorizing the population with the rude immoral behavior..and their should be more consequence because they don't lose anything when the die...because they showed up naked to fight. I just don't want to hear those tears.

[temur]

naked gankers , 08/15 slapboxer whatever .....never join the brainless mainstream .

[Vicid]

I'm wondering if anyone who played before the preorder could tell us what combat was like back then... or did everyone just use unarmed?

[Chavoda]

Have you pvp'd?
Plenty


because the entire point im making IS YOU SPAWN WITH A HI QUALITY HI DAMAGE WEAPON AND YOU HAVE NO ABILITY TO MITIGATE THAT DAMAGE FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

so yes, in a typical situation, you start out with nothing, and gradually get better. In this situation you start out a weapon that is vastly superior to any counter measures you'll be able to effectively employ for quite some time.


For the next month 90% of the player base will have a weapon like that and everyone will be naked..so its not about fair fights here, is the omg i cant gank/hunt , its useless i cant loot them there all naked mentally at play here? .
the actual crafted weapons are better and yes I have some limited test done on that. its your assumption based on no test that you are "shouting" about.



I just want to make sure, because i can see the tears rolling now for the legions of 'naked griefers' (15-20) roaming the world terrorizing the population with the rude immoral behavior..and their should be more consequence because they don't lose anything when the die...because they showed up naked to fight. I just don't want to hear those tears.

Save zones, everyone lacks armor, everyone got a pre-order weapon of sort..

Your making a point about someting that is currently simply no point. even if armor was purely useless atm and dint got better. things wil chance for the better toward your beloved pvp, but not right now. right now is a simple skill based whit lag handicap limited pvp game were you wont find much lootz or reason to fight.

[Dubanka]

i am happy that you are happy with the system.

[jumpshot]

Looks like everyones happy.

I agree with the other guy, GSO

[Viper66]

I run around somewhat naked,, hat and weapon,, iam gathering for my tribe,, someone ganks me or comes at me wearing a full array of grass, (looks like some big bug ) i run away unhindered,, they are weighted down and can't chase me (as it should be) getting ones running and jumping abilites to peak is a good way to avoid the jack wagons roaming around ....lol