It wasn't the map is too small, it's the junk pile

[vorg]

The problem isn't the map is too small, It's that everyone will need junk piles. There was room, without the latest totem screw up if there where better access to junk through out the map so everyone didn't need to crowd around a few small spots.

[NexAnima]

The problem isn't the map is too small, It's that everyone will need junk piles. There was room, without the latest totem screw up if there where better access to junk through out the map so everyone didn't need to crowd around a few small spots.

If there was room and everyone had everything they needed...it wouldn't be an apocalypse, it'd be tuesday night at suburbia.

[orious13]

Once they open mist there will be a true land grab.. with pvp and everything.

Starting out with a somewhat limited land-to-man ratio and then opening up something huge sounds interesting to me.

[yoori]

There is plenty of unused scrap, but not enough place aroud for big tribes. But that's not the problem. There is too many tribes and homsteads, NOT players.
Animals have AI that keeps them away from settlements, that's where they live and breed. They need areas with no players, but since every "100m" there's homestead or tribe. they move into the mist and that is the problem.

[mgilbrtsn]

Once they open mist there will be a true land grab.. with pvp and everything.

Starting out with a somewhat limited land-to-man ratio and then opening up something huge sounds interesting to me.

I agree, initially the area will be very crowded, then it will be opening up. All roads will lead to Rome ( or in this case the lake)

[Shukano]

Will be interesting to see what happens when the junk piles start running out. Big tribes are going to run out relatively fast...

[SpeechMan]

I plan to keep my homestead relatively small, easy to move away. As soon as we get mining I'll grab all my stuff and move up to the mountains, try to find myself a nice enough spot with good ore and start digging away.

[unclean666]

no theres enough junk.

[pendergraft]

If there was room and everyone had everything they needed...it wouldn't be an apocalypse, it'd be tuesday night at suburbia.

It doesn't exactly feel like a post-apocalyptic world. In a post-apocalyptic world I don't think I'd be running into people every hundred feet. Apocalypses tend to have drastic people-reducing tendencies, unless, of course, we're talking about one of those fruity religious apocalypses, in which case TV sensation Kirk Cameron is probably lurking about here somewhere.

No, as it is, it feels a bit like we're all tourists on vacation and we all drank the lake water and went batty. Then one of us killed a bear and made a tent out of it and the delusion spread like wildfire. I'm pretty sure we'll see planes fly over soon. Most of us will throws spears, while others will drop to their knees and worship the giant flying metal beasts.

As for the green mist, I don't know, maybe that's just how it is in Lake Tahoe. I've never been there, and I certainly don't get the Lake Tahoe weather channel. "Also, there's a slight chance of toxic green mist surrounding the lake tonight, so I'd suggest you don't go, because it's, uh, well, it's toxic and a mist so it's hard to see in and you'll probably die. It's our understanding that people are actually trapped at the lake right now, but our attempts to rescue them have been fruitless as our last three pilots have been senselessly murdered by roving bands of naked men."

[orious13]

It doesn't exactly feel like a post-apocalyptic world. In a post-apocalyptic world I don't think I'd be running into people every hundred feet. Apocalypses tend to have drastic people-reducing tendencies, unless, of course, we're talking about one of those fruity religious apocalypses, in which case TV sensation Kirk Cameron is probably lurking about here somewhere.


Seeing how there's 500-1000 people (my assumption). I don't think you can consider that "a lot".

[Dubanka]

this will present an interesting dilemma for some of the community and devs.

as supplies become increasingly rare, groups (especially the larger tribes who will run out the fastest) will be forced to travel farther afield to find 'stuff'.

This will, of course, expose them to danger, as the increased scarcity of resources will also make tribes more posessive of supplies with their immediate area.

The dilemma...if the resource model is allowed to play...is...do you allow the the model to play out, which forces groups to coelesce, and then conflict? or do you just repopulate the world with stuff to keep some folks happy.

Stay away from my junk.

[mindtrigger]

Did anyone else assume getting junk wouldn't always be easy, or that there wouldn't be junk on every tribe or homestead land, or that I might have to risk my life now and then to get resources I need?

[orious13]

Exactly... rare resources is what everyone's wanted. They just forget that a junk pile is a resource.

[pendergraft]

Seeing how there's 500-1000 people (my assumption). I don't think you can consider that "a lot".

Considering the significantly scaled down size of the region, I do believe I can. As I said, I've never been, but I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to say that I could travel off the beaten path now, pre-apocalypse, and not run into so much as a fart of another human presence.

And I don't believe you can say that Lake Tahoe is some mystical oasis what drew survivors from all over the country. How did they get through the mist? Gas masks? I'd like to know where we stockpiled them because there's some lovely filth just on the edge of the mist that I'm dying to get to.

What's more likely is that this is a product of an advanced homeless relocation program. All the states sent their homeless population to Lake Tahoe and told them the apocalypse was underway and to stay put until someone came and got them. Don't try to leave, they said, because the scary green mist will asphyxiate you within seconds. Why do you think you're able to magically ghost-walk yourself out of the mist? It's all delusion.

This explains why we have so many people with Napoleon complexes here.

[NexAnima]

Considering the significantly scaled down size of the region, I do believe I can. As I said, I've never been, but I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to say that I could travel off the beaten path now, pre-apocalypse, and not run into so much as a fart of another human presence.

And I don't believe you can say that Lake Tahoe is some mystical oasis what drew survivors from all over the country. How did they get through the mist? Gas masks? I'd like to know where we stockpiled them because there's some lovely filth just on the edge of the mist that I'm dying to get to.

What's more likely is that this is a product of an advanced homeless relocation program. All the states sent their homeless population to Lake Tahoe and told them the apocalypse was underway and to stay put until someone came and got them. Don't try to leave, they said, because the scary green mist will asphyxiate you within seconds. Why do you think you're able to magically ghost-walk yourself out of the mist? It's all delusion.

This explains why we have so many people with Napoleon complexes here.

Perhaps, now bare with me.. maybe, just maybe...this is all a game..And by some weird circumstance in the year 2011, we all shelled out 40 bucks to play it. It sounds crazy...but is it? Bum Bum Buuummmmm...

[vorg]

Junk piles are required for just about every craft etc maybe basketry. So junk can not be a rare item, it is a basic need, same as water and food.

[ifireallymust]

Perhaps, now bare with me.. maybe, just maybe...this is all a game..And by some weird circumstance in the year 2011, we all shelled out 40 bucks to play it. It sounds crazy...but is it? Bum Bum Buuummmmm...

Are you mad?

Someone get this one some medication.

Okay, back on topic. You guys know there will be a great and mournful howl of grief from the pvp crowd (and by then probably some who are currently living as carebears) if the new areas open up with safe zones around totems. So telling solo players and small tribes to get the hell away from the junk presently scattered around the lake and leave it for the tribes, and then telling us to stop crying about how there isn't enough in the mountains, and then justifying that by saying soon new, junk filled lands will open up is...let's be charitable and say it's ignorant, rather than just saying it's malicious.

[mindtrigger]

Are you mad?

Someone get this one some medication.

Okay, back on topic. You guys know there will be a great and mournful howl of grief from the pvp crowd (and by then probably some who are currently living as carebears) if the new areas open up with safe zones around totems. So telling solo players and small tribes to get the hell away from the junk presently scattered around the lake and leave it for the tribes, and then telling us to stop crying about how there isn't enough in the mountains, and then justifying that by saying soon new, junk filled lands will open up is...let's be charitable and say it's ignorant, rather than just saying it's malicious.

See, this is where you and I differ. If I was going to play solo in a game that was difficult and hostile toward soloers (which fits in the setting and lore of the game, by the way), then I would log on during hours when few people were on, and I would shop other tribes junk piles until I puked junk. There will be plenty of time when people will not be on this game. Furthermore, I might get to know the tribes around me to see exactly what their normal hours of play are, or I might just hide up in the woods and wait for them to leave so I could search their land. I might also get really damn good at combat before I even bothered to settle so that if I wanted shop tribe's junk piles and I don't care if they know it, I would be able to kill whoever tries to stop me.

If I wanted junk, but didn't want to piss of my local tribes, I would travel half way across the map on expeditions, and steal stuff from tribes I won't see very often.

I think you are expecting things to be handed to you when it isn't necessary. In fact, having it NOT handed to you creates some very fun game play ideas. The more I talk to you about playing solo, the more I want to try it. Sounds like a blast exactly how the game plays today, IMO.

[mrcalhou]

See, this is where you and I differ. If I was going to play solo in a game that was difficult and hostile toward soloers (which fits in the setting and lore of the game, by the way), then I would log on during hours when few people were on, and I would shop other tribes junk piles until I puked junk. There will be plenty of time when people will not be on this game. Furthermore, I might get to know the tribes around me to see exactly what their normal hours of play are, or I might just hide up in the woods and wait for them to leave so I could search their land. I might also get really damn good at combat before I even bothered to settle so that if I wanted shop tribe's junk piles and I don't care if they know it, I would be able to kill whoever tries to stop me.

If I wanted junk, but didn't want to piss of my local tribes, I would travel half way across the map on expeditions, and steal stuff from tribes I won't see very often.

I think you are expecting things to be handed to you when it isn't necessary. In fact, having it NOT handed to you creates some very fun game play ideas. The more I talk to you about playing solo, the more I want to try it. Sounds like a blast exactly how the game plays today, IMO.

This. Except, you can't defend yourself on other's land.

[ifireallymust]

This. Except, you can't defend yourself on other's land.

This too, but more important as far as I'm concerned is that relying on the /unstuck exploit to go over fences that any tribe with any sense will quickly build around their precious junk is first of all, cheesy, and second of all, bound not to work for long.

And third, that whole rant of yours, mindtrigger, was a strawman.

I wasn't making a point about ease or difficulty, I was pointing out the obvious logic failure in telling solo players and small groups of players to be patient, to stay off the lake junk, and to not ask for more junk anywhere else SOLELY BECAUSE NEW AREAS WILL OPEN UP WITH JUNK IN THEM. Since many of those who are saying this would scream the house down if the new areas allowed solo players and small groups to place a totem with any protection at all around it, they are ignorant and malicious for trying to reassure us in this manner, since obviously this won't solve our problems, and either they should know it, or they do know it but they're hoping we're stupid.

How easy or difficult the entire thing is or will be had nothing to do with my point.

[orious13]

Simply dig a hole/empty moat inside your wall so they unstuck through and fall so far down that they die :).

[NexAnima]

This too, but more important as far as I'm concerned is that relying on the /unstuck exploit to go over fences that any tribe with any sense will quickly build around their precious junk is first of all, cheesy, and second of all, bound not to work for long.

And third, that whole rant of yours, mindtrigger, was a strawman.

I wasn't making a point about ease or difficulty, I was pointing out the obvious logic failure in telling solo players and small groups of players to be patient, to stay off the lake junk, and to not ask for more junk anywhere else SOLELY BECAUSE NEW AREAS WILL OPEN UP WITH JUNK IN THEM. Since many of those who are saying this would scream the house down if the new areas allowed solo players and small groups to place a totem with any protection at all around it, they are ignorant and malicious for trying to reassure us in this manner, since obviously this won't solve our problems, and either they should know it, or they do know it but they're hoping we're stupid.

How easy or difficult the entire thing is or will be had nothing to do with my point.

They should treat /unstuck as they do death. Just teleport them back to the totem or starting point after having to remain frozen for 2 minutes or so (time debatable). Lets face it the land and terraforming will always lead to being stuck at some point. They just need to take away the ability to functionally use it to their advantage.

[billpaustin]

I like the idea of opening up new areas that have no safe zones:
-- your tribe has been in the same spot for months, picked the junk clean
-- scouts have found a new area with new junk, but dangerous
-- some of the tribe decides to try to move to the new area

I don't think junk should renew; instead, new abilities, like mining and blacksmithing, can substitute for finding things. Need a screw? We can make one now.

[NexAnima]

I like the idea of opening up new areas that have no safe zones:
-- your tribe has been in the same spot for months, picked the junk clean
-- scouts have found a new area with new junk, but dangerous
-- some of the tribe decides to try to move to the new area

I don't think junk should renew; instead, new abilities, like mining and blacksmithing, can substitute for finding things. Need a screw? We can make one now.

Exactly, I see junk as a starter boost to get the ball rolling. Once All the junk is gone (or right before), enable further crafting skills so we can take over from there.

[Saolite]

I like the idea of opening up new areas that have no safe zones:
-- your tribe has been in the same spot for months, picked the junk clean
-- scouts have found a new area with new junk, but dangerous
-- some of the tribe decides to try to move to the new area

I don't think junk should renew; instead, new abilities, like mining and blacksmithing, can substitute for finding things. Need a screw? We can make one now.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that was the original intention. Not the no safe zone part, but the junk being only a stepping stone to tide players and tribes over until the rest of the crafting skills came into play, such as blacksmithing, mining, and agriculture.

As of right now, Junk does not regenerate ( though rollbacks obviously bring the junk back ), so it is a very finite resource. Considering how easily just 3-4 people can pick an entire decent sized junk pile apart, I imagine junk piles will be gone shortly after April begins, if not sooner. Four friends and I totally wiped down a junk pile in about 3 days of playing 5-6 hours a day. Granted it wasn't one of the giant cluster ones found at the lake, but still a fairly decent sized one. Three-ish mounds.

[NexAnima]

I believe that the Xsyon junkpile locations correlate with the real life Lake Tahoe's populated areas. As of recently I have been exploring using both the Xsyon map as well as the real world map of the lake. From what I have determined is highly populated areas of the real world result in large placement of junkpiles in Xsyon. While it is not perfect, it is very easy to find junk based on viewing the real world map.

Evidence:
Zone:863-864 There are very large piles here, in real life- there is a farm and a large neighborhood.
Zone:736, 737,697- No junk to be found (minus a few tiny piles), real life- state park
Zone 738-740, large junkpiles, real life- large neighborhood

This is pretty amazing if I'm right, that the devs would consider this level of detail to use in Xsyon.

[BigCountry]

/unstuck needs to move you AWAY from a tribe totem......not TOWARDS it.

Right now walls and such are meaningless.....you just type /unstuck and you teleport towards the totem, through everything...lol!

Take the geofence coordinates from the totem and move the character away from the totem radius please placing the person outside of the territory....wow....it's not rocket science...

[NexAnima]

/unstuck needs to move you AWAY from a tribe totem......not TOWARDS it.

Right now walls and such are meaningless.....you just type /unstuck and you teleport towards the totem, through everything...lol!

Take the geofence coordinates from the totem and move the character away from the totem radius please placing the person outside of the territory....wow....it's not rocket science...

If thats the only thing they change then the building strategy would be to terraform walls all around the tribe, deathshuttle into the tribe and /unstuck out of it.

[BigCountry]

Well deathshuttle is a different issue. That needs to be removed all together. Either you need to be ressed like in UO, or everyone just auto teleports back to a bind point (like 'Evil' aligned players do now).

But as it stands now, /unstuck is the most powerful exploit in the game. It renders tribal defenses utterly useless.....literally!
haha

[mindtrigger]

This too, but more important as far as I'm concerned is that relying on the /unstuck exploit to go over fences that any tribe with any sense will quickly build around their precious junk is first of all, cheesy, and second of all, bound not to work for long.

And third, that whole rant of yours, mindtrigger, was a strawman.

I wasn't making a point about ease or difficulty, I was pointing out the obvious logic failure in telling solo players and small groups of players to be patient, to stay off the lake junk, and to not ask for more junk anywhere else SOLELY BECAUSE NEW AREAS WILL OPEN UP WITH JUNK IN THEM. Since many of those who are saying this would scream the house down if the new areas allowed solo players and small groups to place a totem with any protection at all around it, they are ignorant and malicious for trying to reassure us in this manner, since obviously this won't solve our problems, and either they should know it, or they do know it but they're hoping we're stupid.

How easy or difficult the entire thing is or will be had nothing to do with my point.

Strawman...

All I'm tell you is to quit whining and be creative. That pretty much sums up my whole position. One thing you are doing with threads full of your rants, is assuring no one wants to listen to you after launch when it really matters.

[Bear5732]

I honestly do not see the point of this discussion. I spent several hours exploring and have gone through entire zones where no one was located - and yes there is plenty of junk everywhere - especially in and around the mist. The problem is that people want to get off the newb ferry on newb island and be handed a kingdom. You have to actually move away from the newbie starting zone and you will find very low population and tons of junk all around the edge of the map, in the mountains, etc.

This discussion is just a waste of time.

[vorg]

You can't compare exploring now to what it is really like. You have to look at the server during the failed start or before the wipe for that. Many have not logged in since waiting for them to get done wiping the server.

[ifireallymust]

You can't compare exploring now to what it is really like. You have to look at the server during the failed start or before the wipe for that. Many have not logged in since waiting for them to get done wiping the server.

Vorg speaks the truth. Even right after the most recent wipe, totems were placed everywhere. Then for whatever reason, players removed most of them. None of us will have any idea of the actual crowding problem until Friday.