PvP vs. PK and some general impressions

[Tradeprawn]

I was just thinking of true consequences. I like fighting. If a person wants to fight me i'll agree. Players should be able to fight with out consequences if agreed. I'm proposing that players who prey on others(ruin others gaming experience) be punished when beat(caught).If i'm gaming and trying to accomplish something, I don't want a bunch of griefers chasing me around stabbing me. People not wanting to pay to not get to play is the exact thing i'm talking about. Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.

[sisler86]

Tradeprawn wrote:

I was just thinking of true consequences. I like fighting. If a person wants to fight me i'll agree. Players should be able to fight with out consequences if agreed. I'm proposing that players who prey on others(ruin others gaming experience) be punished when beat(caught).If i'm gaming and trying to accomplish something, I don't want a bunch of griefers chasing me around stabbing me. People not wanting to pay to not get to play is the exact thing i'm talking about. Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.

Alright. I'll buy this. You do make a point. Even though a lot of people say that we should "expect" this, mindless Pking does ruin the experience of some and drive them away. That goes along with a lot of what I have been saying on here. I hope there won't be a lot of that going on though. fair and balanced PvP is just fine though.

[Jhael]

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.

[VowOfSilence]

necoo wrote:

let the world crumble behind me as i stand on this street, let the bodies fall as i walk through a red mist, let blood fall like rain from the tip of my crimson blade, let the moon be dimmed by the stench of death, let me fade into darkness as i walk into the abyss, may the masses curse my name and, in turn, i shall curse theirs, as my hart beats faster and the adrenaline rushes throughout my body may those around fall victim to fear, and let those who don't strike out at me understand my path, and only then may a fleeting bond of friendship be formed. at the end of the day may my hands be shaking in victory, and let i not fall in defeat.

but... why?
*insert sad carebear face*

You hate Lake Tahoe that much? Because that's all there's really left of the old world. You sound like someone planning to bomb Ground Zero because he hates the world trade center. Dear terrorist: The WTC is no more. You can go build something nice there, tho. If you don't like it, you can still bomb it later on. But right now, there's no point to any of this.

[Picumnus]

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.

I gotta say it is sad that I am still following this thread; but, I am so here it goes.

From what you wrote above I assume you feel there should be no consequences for "Crime" (ie., killing, stealing, etc). This is not to say that your tribe cannot declare war on mine (I expect all "red" tribes to pretty much declare war on everyone just to make it easy), but you, an individual member of a tribe, should not be allowed to kill me, a member of a tribe you are not at war with, without severe penalties. After all you can't just go randomly kill someone in RL without real consequences.

The rules should not be so severe as to completely exclude the "evil" players but should limit the number that choose that style to those that are willing to run the risks, much as organized crime, gangs, etc do in RL. They know that everyday they face prison or death and yet they choose that lifestyle, those that choose the same role in the game should face similar threats.

Alright back to work :(

[Tradeprawn]

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

[necoo]

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

so you are talking about protecting the community huh... well let me fill you in on a little secret... pkers are as much a part of the community as the rest of you carebears and the game mechanics must not be made to protect only one part but rather the entire community of the players including the most ruthless and evil of them. the game mechanics will be made to protect the community regardless of what the ppl do, much like the laws of physics govern our world... it is up to the ppl of the world to obey the laws that we make for ourselves as we deal with whatever comes our way be it good or bad. such is fate for there is nothing more then that.

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

so you are talking about protecting the community huh... well let me fill you in on a little secret... pkers are as much a part of the community as the rest of you carebears and the game mechanics must not be made to protect only one part but rather the entire community of the players including the most ruthless and evil of them. the game mechanics will be made to protect the community regardless of what the ppl do, much like the laws of physics govern our world... it is up to the ppl of the world to obey the laws that we make for ourselves as we deal with whatever comes our way be it good or bad. such is fate for there is nothing more then that.

That may be true, but you gotta look at it from both angles. Your rights as a player end where my rights begin. If I don't want to be ganked over and over, then by your own definition of being protected as a part of the community, you should respect that. Else, there should be consequences.

[Tradeprawn]

necoo wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

so you are talking about protecting the community huh... well let me fill you in on a little secret... pkers are as much a part of the community as the rest of you carebears and the game mechanics must not be made to protect only one part but rather the entire community of the players including the most ruthless and evil of them. the game mechanics will be made to protect the community regardless of what the ppl do, much like the laws of physics govern our world... it is up to the ppl of the world to obey the laws that we make for ourselves as we deal with whatever comes our way be it good or bad. such is fate for there is nothing more then that.
If your neighbor(in game or out) whoomped you over the head and took your stuff everytime you stepped out of the house would you want them to be a part of the community? I personnly wouldn't mind them being gone. If you want pvp there seems to be plenty interested so you'll be able to get fights. If you want to gank, get good or spend most of your time not being able to log in.

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

so you are talking about protecting the community huh... well let me fill you in on a little secret... pkers are as much a part of the community as the rest of you carebears and the game mechanics must not be made to protect only one part but rather the entire community of the players including the most ruthless and evil of them. the game mechanics will be made to protect the community regardless of what the ppl do, much like the laws of physics govern our world... it is up to the ppl of the world to obey the laws that we make for ourselves as we deal with whatever comes our way be it good or bad. such is fate for there is nothing more then that.

That may be true, but you gotta look at it from both angles. Your rights as a player end where my rights begin. If I don't want to be ganked over and over, then by your own definition of being protected as a part of the community, you should respect that. Else, there should be consequences.

by my own definition you make your own laws to protect you within your tribe... much like the federal laws that govern the US but once you leave the country the laws no longer protect you and you are but a subject to the laws that affect the country you are in... perhaps the last part didn't clearly enplane that but... that is what following up is for.

[sisler86]

Tradeprawn wrote:

necoo wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

so you are talking about protecting the community huh... well let me fill you in on a little secret... pkers are as much a part of the community as the rest of you carebears and the game mechanics must not be made to protect only one part but rather the entire community of the players including the most ruthless and evil of them. the game mechanics will be made to protect the community regardless of what the ppl do, much like the laws of physics govern our world... it is up to the ppl of the world to obey the laws that we make for ourselves as we deal with whatever comes our way be it good or bad. such is fate for there is nothing more then that.
If your neighbor(in game or out) whoomped you over the head and took your stuff everytime you stepped out of the house would you want them to be a part of the community? I personnly wouldn't mind them being gone. If you want pvp there seems to be plenty interested so you'll be able to get fights. If you want to gank, get good or spend most of your time not being able to log in.

That is actually a very good analogy.

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

so you are talking about protecting the community huh... well let me fill you in on a little secret... pkers are as much a part of the community as the rest of you carebears and the game mechanics must not be made to protect only one part but rather the entire community of the players including the most ruthless and evil of them. the game mechanics will be made to protect the community regardless of what the ppl do, much like the laws of physics govern our world... it is up to the ppl of the world to obey the laws that we make for ourselves as we deal with whatever comes our way be it good or bad. such is fate for there is nothing more then that.

That may be true, but you gotta look at it from both angles. Your rights as a player end where my rights begin. If I don't want to be ganked over and over, then by your own definition of being protected as a part of the community, you should respect that. Else, there should be consequences.

by my own definition you make your own laws to protect you within your tribe... much like the federal laws that govern the US but once you leave the country the laws no longer protect you and you are but a subject to the laws that affect the country you are in... perhaps the last part didn't clearly enplane that but... that is what following up is for.

Alright, I'll buy that. However, in real life, you aren't paying a monthly subscription to be alive. In a game you are paying for your fun. If we are going to pay for a game then there should be rules in place to ensure that we are getting our money's worth. Getting ganked over and over isn't worth the cost, but shouldn't we have the right to play without getting ganked all the time if we have to, in turn, accept those gankers as part of the community?

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

so you are talking about protecting the community huh... well let me fill you in on a little secret... pkers are as much a part of the community as the rest of you carebears and the game mechanics must not be made to protect only one part but rather the entire community of the players including the most ruthless and evil of them. the game mechanics will be made to protect the community regardless of what the ppl do, much like the laws of physics govern our world... it is up to the ppl of the world to obey the laws that we make for ourselves as we deal with whatever comes our way be it good or bad. such is fate for there is nothing more then that.

That may be true, but you gotta look at it from both angles. Your rights as a player end where my rights begin. If I don't want to be ganked over and over, then by your own definition of being protected as a part of the community, you should respect that. Else, there should be consequences.

by my own definition you make your own laws to protect you within your tribe... much like the federal laws that govern the US but once you leave the country the laws no longer protect you and you are but a subject to the laws that affect the country you are in... perhaps the last part didn't clearly enplane that but... that is what following up is for.

Alright, I'll buy that. However, in real life, you aren't paying a monthly subscription to be alive. In a game you are paying for your fun. If we are going to pay for a game then there should be rules in place to ensure that we are getting our money's worth. Getting ganked over and over isn't worth the cost, but shouldn't we have the right to play without getting ganked all the time if we have to, in turn, accept those gankers as part of the community?
true enough however it is unlikely you will be ganked over and over again... at least not in your own territory as the laws of your tribe would (at least should) protect you from that... it is when you wonder out that the danger begins to peak... of course exploration is part of the game, but if you wish to explore you must take the appropriate risk that is going away from the protection and comfort your tribe would give you.

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

so you are talking about protecting the community huh... well let me fill you in on a little secret... pkers are as much a part of the community as the rest of you carebears and the game mechanics must not be made to protect only one part but rather the entire community of the players including the most ruthless and evil of them. the game mechanics will be made to protect the community regardless of what the ppl do, much like the laws of physics govern our world... it is up to the ppl of the world to obey the laws that we make for ourselves as we deal with whatever comes our way be it good or bad. such is fate for there is nothing more then that.

That may be true, but you gotta look at it from both angles. Your rights as a player end where my rights begin. If I don't want to be ganked over and over, then by your own definition of being protected as a part of the community, you should respect that. Else, there should be consequences.

by my own definition you make your own laws to protect you within your tribe... much like the federal laws that govern the US but once you leave the country the laws no longer protect you and you are but a subject to the laws that affect the country you are in... perhaps the last part didn't clearly enplane that but... that is what following up is for.

Alright, I'll buy that. However, in real life, you aren't paying a monthly subscription to be alive. In a game you are paying for your fun. If we are going to pay for a game then there should be rules in place to ensure that we are getting our money's worth. Getting ganked over and over isn't worth the cost, but shouldn't we have the right to play without getting ganked all the time if we have to, in turn, accept those gankers as part of the community?
true enough however it is unlikely you will be ganked over and over again... at least not in your own territory as the laws of your tribe would (at least should) protect you from that... it is when you wonder out that the danger begins to peak... of course exploration is part of the game, but if you wish to explore you must take the appropriate risk that is going away from the protection and comfort your tribe would give you.

I think you and I have finally come to agree, lol :P

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

so you are talking about protecting the community huh... well let me fill you in on a little secret... pkers are as much a part of the community as the rest of you carebears and the game mechanics must not be made to protect only one part but rather the entire community of the players including the most ruthless and evil of them. the game mechanics will be made to protect the community regardless of what the ppl do, much like the laws of physics govern our world... it is up to the ppl of the world to obey the laws that we make for ourselves as we deal with whatever comes our way be it good or bad. such is fate for there is nothing more then that.

That may be true, but you gotta look at it from both angles. Your rights as a player end where my rights begin. If I don't want to be ganked over and over, then by your own definition of being protected as a part of the community, you should respect that. Else, there should be consequences.

by my own definition you make your own laws to protect you within your tribe... much like the federal laws that govern the US but once you leave the country the laws no longer protect you and you are but a subject to the laws that affect the country you are in... perhaps the last part didn't clearly enplane that but... that is what following up is for.

Alright, I'll buy that. However, in real life, you aren't paying a monthly subscription to be alive. In a game you are paying for your fun. If we are going to pay for a game then there should be rules in place to ensure that we are getting our money's worth. Getting ganked over and over isn't worth the cost, but shouldn't we have the right to play without getting ganked all the time if we have to, in turn, accept those gankers as part of the community?
true enough however it is unlikely you will be ganked over and over again... at least not in your own territory as the laws of your tribe would (at least should) protect you from that... it is when you wonder out that the danger begins to peak... of course exploration is part of the game, but if you wish to explore you must take the appropriate risk that is going away from the protection and comfort your tribe would give you.

I think you and I have finally come to agree, lol :P

so it seams...

[Jhael]

Picumnus wrote:

I gotta say it is sad that I am still following this thread; but, I am so here it goes.

From what you wrote above I assume you feel there should be no consequences for "Crime" (ie., killing, stealing, etc). This is not to say that your tribe cannot declare war on mine (I expect all "red" tribes to pretty much declare war on everyone just to make it easy), but you, an individual member of a tribe, should not be allowed to kill me, a member of a tribe you are not at war with, without severe penalties. After all you can't just go randomly kill someone in RL without real consequences.

The rules should not be so severe as to completely exclude the "evil" players but should limit the number that choose that style to those that are willing to run the risks, much as organized crime, gangs, etc do in RL. They know that everyday they face prison or death and yet they choose that lifestyle, those that choose the same role in the game should face similar threats.

Alright back to work :(Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

Tradeprawn wrote:

We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.Exactly, we are not talking about real life. Stop trying to push the laws and ethics of real life.

People should enjoy it. But what you enjoy is not necessarily what everyone else enjoys. Your enjoyment is not more important then someone elses. Stop being such an egomaniac :p

By your zerg-whining big tribes should be severely penalized and made to quit because the small and the weak can't handle them. But that's not right is it.

We are talking about a whole new society here. One without countries or kingdoms (at least initially). In any such new and barely starting societies Might is Right - just have a good look at earth history. It should be up to that society to evolve past the point where might is right to a point where right is right :silly:
It shouldn't be a lawful environment from the get-go, it should earn that right by evolving to it naturally.

We can argue here endlessly, but in the end it will be up to the fact if the developers want this to be a sandbox, where players are given their own choices and paths or have their paths paved out for them like themeparks...or worse, Hello Kitty Online.

[Ciik]

I cant think of a conflict encounter, a fight, where one party doesn't have something to lose or gain.

[sisler86]

Jhael wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

I gotta say it is sad that I am still following this thread; but, I am so here it goes.

From what you wrote above I assume you feel there should be no consequences for "Crime" (ie., killing, stealing, etc). This is not to say that your tribe cannot declare war on mine (I expect all "red" tribes to pretty much declare war on everyone just to make it easy), but you, an individual member of a tribe, should not be allowed to kill me, a member of a tribe you are not at war with, without severe penalties. After all you can't just go randomly kill someone in RL without real consequences.

The rules should not be so severe as to completely exclude the "evil" players but should limit the number that choose that style to those that are willing to run the risks, much as organized crime, gangs, etc do in RL. They know that everyday they face prison or death and yet they choose that lifestyle, those that choose the same role in the game should face similar threats.

Alright back to work :(Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

Tradeprawn wrote:

We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.Exactly, we are not talking about real life. Stop trying to push the laws and ethics of real life.

People should enjoy it. But what you enjoy is not necessarily what everyone else enjoys. Your enjoyment is not more important then someone elses. Stop being such an egomaniac :p

By your zerg-whining big tribes should be severely penalized and made to quit because the small and the weak can't handle them. But that's not right is it.

We are talking about a whole new society here. One without countries or kingdoms (at least initially). In any such new and barely starting societies Might is Right - just have a good look at earth history. It should be up to that society to evolve past the point where might is right to a point where right is right :silly:
It shouldn't be a lawful environment from the get-go, it should earn that right by evolving to it naturally.

We can argue here endlessly, but in the end it will be up to the fact if the developers want this to be a sandbox, where players are given their own choices and paths or have their paths paved out for them like themeparks...or worse, Hello Kitty Online.

I love how you agreed that this isn't real life and then you gave a lot of real life examples. I'm not discrediting you or the points you made, I just thought I would point that out. :P

[Jhael]

sisler86 wrote:

I love how you agreed that this isn't real life and then you gave a lot of real life examples. I'm not discrediting you or the points you made, I just thought I would point that out. :PThey're no better.

But also, I'm not pushing the laws the real life has but push for the option of players making their own laws and how mechanics work. What is "right" in real life shouldn't automatically be right in the game unless the players choose and make it so EDIT: through INGAME methods, not some arbitrary pre-set method before you go there :p.

[sisler86]

Jhael wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

I love how you agreed that this isn't real life and then you gave a lot of real life examples. I'm not discrediting you or the points you made, I just thought I would point that out. :PThey're no better.

But also, I'm not pushing the laws the real life has but push for the option of players making their own laws and how mechanics work. What is "right" in real life shouldn't automatically be right in the game unless the players choose and make it so.

You do have a point. As long as people aren't abusing the system then I'll go with this.

[Picumnus]

Jhael wrote:

Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.


I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

Jhael wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

I love how you agreed that this isn't real life and then you gave a lot of real life examples. I'm not discrediting you or the points you made, I just thought I would point that out. :PThey're no better.

But also, I'm not pushing the laws the real life has but push for the option of players making their own laws and how mechanics work. What is "right" in real life shouldn't automatically be right in the game unless the players choose and make it so.

You do have a point. As long as people aren't abusing the system then I'll go with this. people will always find ways the abuse the system...

[Jhael]

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jhael wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

I love how you agreed that this isn't real life and then you gave a lot of real life examples. I'm not discrediting you or the points you made, I just thought I would point that out. :PThey're no better.

But also, I'm not pushing the laws the real life has but push for the option of players making their own laws and how mechanics work. What is "right" in real life shouldn't automatically be right in the game unless the players choose and make it so.

You do have a point. As long as people aren't abusing the system then I'll go with this. people will always find ways the abuse the system...In fact, there would be no loopholes to abuse if there was no system. :ohmy:

[sisler86]

Picumnus wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.


I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.

There are several other ways to go about seeking justice.

-Create a bounty board
-Keep track of what tribes are doing this behavior, sever ties with them if necessary
-War is always an option, but does not come without further consequence
-Create patrols to keep your territory safe, etc.

[necoo]

Picumnus wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.


I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.

... i don't think that is what he is saying... what he is saying is that there shouldn't be a, what was it now..."magical "hand of god"" as it were... and we have already discussed the jail topic... i know this topic i long but look back a bit and you'll find it... im pretty sure i said something about not wanting to magically respawn in a jail cell and that if you want me to go to jail you'll have to knock me out and drag me to jail...

[Jhael]

Picumnus wrote:

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.But handing the option of deciding for a punishment to the victim would be "unfair" as well, don't you think. That's why there s a need for "due process" in our own little society.

Also, it should more be like a medium between the two because people are still selfish and the "victims" would make their opponents as severely crippled as possible to ease their lives and vice versa.

Picumnus wrote:

I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.Exactly what I am arguing for here. Players to make their own laws and enforce the laws themselves too not have safety handed to them on a silver plate. Naturally they need to have the possible tools they need to make these happen.

And yes, building a society we are, not inheriting it from "real life".

[necoo]

Picumnus wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.


I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.

ahhh... this always happens... right when we are about to come to an agreement some random guys comes along and brings up points that have already been discussed and dismissed needlessly furthering the conversation into even more dismay and chaos.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

That's true, but unfortunately I think the opposing force is sleeping. :)

I just don't understand them and their violent ways. :laugh:

I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

Jadzia. You aren't funny.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

An equal opportunity ganker picks on ALL sizes. No need to leave anyone out of the fun.

[necoo]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

That's true, but unfortunately I think the opposing force is sleeping. :)

I just don't understand them and their violent ways. :laugh:

I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

Jadzia. You aren't funny.

lol anyway since this involves me i shall explain a little about me since you guys seam so interested

first... yes im a teenager and a boy i am 17 but contrary to what you said i don't watch to many action movies and i live in a fairly carefree area with little violence... further more i have had fairly good experiences as i am in collage because when i was 16 i took a test similar to a GED but you get it before you are 18 in doing so i was able to skip the last 2 years of high school and am now in collage

[PANZERBUNNY]

necoo wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

That's true, but unfortunately I think the opposing force is sleeping. :)

I just don't understand them and their violent ways. :laugh:

I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

Jadzia. You aren't funny.

lol anyway since this involves me i shall explain a little about me since you guys seam so interested

first... yes im a teenager and a boy i am 17 but contrary to what you said i don't watch to many action movies and i live in a fairly carefree area with little violence... further more i have had fairly good experiences as i am in collage because when i was 16 i took a test similar to a GED but you get it before you are 18 in doing so i was able to skip the last 2 years of high school and am now in collage

Oh. you fail. You gave in under their failure at witty replies. heh.

[Tradeprawn]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

An equal opportunity ganker picks on ALL sizes. No need to leave anyone out of the fun.
yeah 5 on one maybe. I put in my 2 cents. My vote is for 1 week game ban for gankers/griefers. RP is jail time. Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time. Challenge somebody if you want pvp. I'm excited Xsyon is coming soon and i can't wait to play. See ya'll on the battlefield. ;) *out*

[PANZERBUNNY]

Tradeprawn wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

An equal opportunity ganker picks on ALL sizes. No need to leave anyone out of the fun.
yeah 5 on one maybe. I put in my 2 cents. My vote is for 1 week game ban for gankers/griefers. RP is jail time. Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time. Challenge somebody if you want pvp. I'm excited Xsyon is coming soon and i can't wait to play. See ya'll on the battlefield. ;) *out*

Ganking and griefing is tossed around too much. To some people, losing their "Deer Gizards" to someone that ran them down is griefing.
The way that some of that avid anti-pvpers act, looking at someone for a prolonged period of time should flag them as evil.

[necoo]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

necoo wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

That's true, but unfortunately I think the opposing force is sleeping. :)

I just don't understand them and their violent ways. :laugh:

I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

Jadzia. You aren't funny.

lol anyway since this involves me i shall explain a little about me since you guys seam so interested

first... yes im a teenager and a boy i am 17 but contrary to what you said i don't watch to many action movies and i live in a fairly carefree area with little violence... further more i have had fairly good experiences as i am in collage because when i was 16 i took a test similar to a GED but you get it before you are 18 in doing so i was able to skip the last 2 years of high school and am now in collage

Oh. you fail. You gave in under their failure at witty replies. heh.

not as thou i was hiding something... if i noticed that post earlier i would have said this then...not that it matters

[necoo]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Only the the most skilled or truly "bad" players would continue to become the monsters of the game. The run of the mill griefer will either stop playing Xsyon, or will change their ways to fighting others who want to fight or hunt said player monsters.You know that argument has been used about a fluffing million times by now and it NEVER works out like that.
Why? Nobody is willingly going to play the bluntly penalized playstyle in a competitive environment because people like to stay competitive. What this creates is just that, an environment of only good players. It's not natural, it's not sandbox, it's not a CHOICE.

Also, not all fights are consensual nor should they be. That's like saying a country in real life should not be allowed to declare war on another unless the other accepts. I'm sure you can see how fluffing ridiculous that is and sounds like.

Also also :D, PvP is more then just about the fight. It's also about what happens before and after the fight. PvP also encompasses tactics rather then a blunt 1 on 1 fight (if that's how the "consensual" fight is set up). It also involves sneaking and getting away without losing in the slightly longer run through unforeseen causes.
We're not talking about real world here pal. We're talking about a game. People should enjoy it. If your a ganker and don't like the penalty go play another game. Xsyon has so much potential, I don't want it to turn in to groups of gankers wondering around killing every lone player walking around. Want to fight? Pick on someone your own size or face the consequences. I would think there wouldn't be many who would choose to play that way. That's the point.

An equal opportunity ganker picks on ALL sizes. No need to leave anyone out of the fun.
yeah 5 on one maybe. I put in my 2 cents. My vote is for 1 week game ban for gankers/griefers. RP is jail time. Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time. Challenge somebody if you want pvp. I'm excited Xsyon is coming soon and i can't wait to play. See ya'll on the battlefield. ;) *out*

Ganking and griefing is tossed around too much. To some people, losing their "Deer Gizards" to someone that ran them down is griefing.
The way that some of that avid anti-pvpers act, looking at someone for a prolonged period of time should flag them as evil.
i would rather rely on stealth rather then gangin up on ppl the only reason why i would do a 3 on 1 would be if i was the 1... i would still come out on top anyway ha! ha!

[shadowlz]

Stupid onesided discussion hellbent on ruining the game. Why don't you wait for the game then bring these worthless discussions.

[necoo]

shadowlz wrote:

Stupid onesided discussion hellbent on ruining the game. Why don't you wait for the game then bring these worthless discussions.
because the anticipation is killing us

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

Stupid onesided discussion hellbent on ruining the game. Why don't you wait for the game then bring these worthless discussions.
because the anticipation is killing us

lol, this discussion isn't one sided, it's completely divided hence the longevity of this thread. Each side has their own perspective of "ruining" the game, again, hence why this thread continues.

[PANZERBUNNY]

ganking doesn't mean "ganging up on". Its a terms used for kill, or kill over and over.(for the most part.)

People are just being scared. I dont see it being such a problem.

[sisler86]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

ganking doesn't mean "ganging up on". Its a terms used for kill, or kill over and over.(for the most part.)

People are just being scared. I dont see it being such a problem.

Me neither, but I do understand some people's concern and I will back them on it. I don't see this game having most of those issues though.

[Jhael]

shadowlz wrote:

Stupid onesided discussion hellbent on ruining the game. Why don't you wait for the game then bring these worthless discussions.Because these are things that need to be considered before the game is finished. They aren't some things you just smack on a game, they are fundamental to the game and make it what it is.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Jhael wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

Stupid onesided discussion hellbent on ruining the game. Why don't you wait for the game then bring these worthless discussions.Because these are things that need to be considered before the game is finished. They aren't some things you just smack on a game, they are fundamental to the game and make it what it is.

As we stated pages ago, the PVP aspect was probably one of the first things they dug their teeth into because its a focus of the game and the most game breaking feature. If its bad...its over. If its good, everything else will follow.

[VowOfSilence]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

ganking doesn't mean "ganging up on". Its a terms used for kill, or kill over and over.(for the most part.)

no -.-
it means using lame/unfair tactics only to farm other players for loot.

[Ciik]

VowOfSilence wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

ganking doesn't mean "ganging up on". Its a terms used for kill, or kill over and over.(for the most part.)

no -.-
it means using lame/unfair tactics only to farm other players for loot.

Actually, It's an overly used term by people that are out-gamed in a combative situation by another player that doesnt act as predictably as a computer-controlled mob that is tethered to a leash.

[sisler86]

Ciik wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

ganking doesn't mean "ganging up on". Its a terms used for kill, or kill over and over.(for the most part.)

no -.-
it means using lame/unfair tactics only to farm other players for loot.

Actually, It's an overly used term by people that are out-gamed in a combative situation by another player that doesnt act as predictably as a computer-controlled mob that is tethered to a leash.

Trying to define an opinion is like trying to tell a color blind person that a banana is yellow.

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

Ciik wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

ganking doesn't mean "ganging up on". Its a terms used for kill, or kill over and over.(for the most part.)

no -.-
it means using lame/unfair tactics only to farm other players for loot.

Actually, It's an overly used term by people that are out-gamed in a combative situation by another player that doesnt act as predictably as a computer-controlled mob that is tethered to a leash.

Trying to define an opinion is like trying to tell a color blind person that a banana is yellow.

yeah regardless of what it means it has something to do with killing players that we can all agree on

[VowOfSilence]

Ciik wrote:

Actually, It's an overly used term by people that are out-gamed in a combative situation by another player that doesnt act as predictably as a computer-controlled mob that is tethered to a leash.

Actually, you are simply wrong.
the internets don't agree with you.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gank
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ganking
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gank
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gank

[Picumnus]

necoo wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.


I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.

ahhh... this always happens... right when we are about to come to an agreement some random guys comes along and brings up points that have already been discussed and dismissed needlessly furthering the conversation into even more dismay and chaos.

Just to clarify.... I am the guy who originally brought up the article and the guy who brought it up again... because the point still stands.

Without having in-game methods for punishing (including getting knocked out and dragged to jail) there is no balance. Players cannot establish rules or laws if the system itself does not allow for this flexibility.

Besides, PVP is not sneaking up behind someone who is gathering wood and stabbing in the back while they are busy with the task at hand... that is murder.

PVP is great... slaughtering unsuspecting people when they have no realistic chance of fighting back is not so good

[necoo]

Picumnus wrote:

necoo wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.


I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.

ahhh... this always happens... right when we are about to come to an agreement some random guys comes along and brings up points that have already been discussed and dismissed needlessly furthering the conversation into even more dismay and chaos.

Just to clarify.... I am the guy who originally brought up the article and the guy who brought it up again... because the point still stands.

Without having in-game methods for punishing (including getting knocked out and dragged to jail) there is no balance. Players cannot establish rules or laws if the system itself does not allow for this flexibility.

Besides, PVP is not sneaking up behind someone who is gathering wood and stabbing in the back while they are busy with the task at hand... that is murder.

PVP is great... slaughtering unsuspecting people when they have no realistic chance of fighting back is not so good
so you are agents mindless murder huh... well i can see why... but is it really so bad, the only reason murder is such a grand crime is because life is the one thing that cannot be regain after it has been lost... but can the same be said in a game... no it cannot and so the crimes weight is lessened and is no longer as grand a crime as it once was.

[JCatano]

Picumnus wrote:

necoo wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.


I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.

ahhh... this always happens... right when we are about to come to an agreement some random guys comes along and brings up points that have already been discussed and dismissed needlessly furthering the conversation into even more dismay and chaos.

Just to clarify.... I am the guy who originally brought up the article and the guy who brought it up again... because the point still stands.

Without having in-game methods for punishing (including getting knocked out and dragged to jail) there is no balance. Players cannot establish rules or laws if the system itself does not allow for this flexibility.

Besides, PVP is not sneaking up behind someone who is gathering wood and stabbing in the back while they are busy with the task at hand... that is murder.

PVP is great... slaughtering unsuspecting people when they have no realistic chance of fighting back is not so good

That is one side of PvP.

What if that gatherer is someone you're at war with? What if that gatherer is evil?

And if that person is just a random player minding his own business, well... Guess what? The "murder" you speak of already has consequences. You eventually turn evil, which means everyone can attack you without alignment loss, and it seems that everyone can fully loot you.

All if this "jail" and being "banned" talk from some people is absolutely ridiculous. Thankfully, they do not develop MMOs.

It's an open-PvP game. If you don't like being randomly PK'd at times... It's not the game for you.

[Brutix]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

ganking doesn't mean "ganging up on". Its a terms used for kill, or kill over and over.(for the most part.)

People are just being scared. I dont see it being such a problem.Actually ganking does mean "ganging up on" it is short for gang attack. Thats what it's original usage was irl but like all words the meaning will change given enough time

[necoo]

JCatano wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

necoo wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.


I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.

ahhh... this always happens... right when we are about to come to an agreement some random guys comes along and brings up points that have already been discussed and dismissed needlessly furthering the conversation into even more dismay and chaos.

Just to clarify.... I am the guy who originally brought up the article and the guy who brought it up again... because the point still stands.

Without having in-game methods for punishing (including getting knocked out and dragged to jail) there is no balance. Players cannot establish rules or laws if the system itself does not allow for this flexibility.

Besides, PVP is not sneaking up behind someone who is gathering wood and stabbing in the back while they are busy with the task at hand... that is murder.

PVP is great... slaughtering unsuspecting people when they have no realistic chance of fighting back is not so good

That is one side of PvP.

What if that gatherer is someone you're at war with? What if that gatherer is evil?

And if that person is just a random player minding his own business, well... Guess what? The "murder" you speak of already has consequences. You eventually turn evil, which means everyone can attack you without alignment loss, and it seems that everyone can fully loot you.

All if this "jail" and being "banned" talk from some people is absolutely ridiculous. Thankfully, they do not develop MMOs.

It's an open-PvP game. If you don't like being randomly PK'd at times... It's not the game for you.

just to clarify on the looting thing full loot will only happen when you kill the player if you just knock them unconscious you can take only one item... supposedly that is

with that aside the jail idea needs some work if it is to go into fruition... for example instead of a jail how about a dungeon that you are thrown into that you have to escape that the tribe that captured you made and depending on the severity of your crime is how far you have to go to get out. either way i still don't think one should just magically respawn there you would have to bring then to a hoop or something like that that brings them to the appropriate aria of the dungeon

[JCatano]

necoo wrote:

just to clarify on the looting thing full loot will only happen when you kill the player if you just knock them unconscious you can take only one item... supposedly that is

with that aside the jail idea needs some work if it is to go into fruition... for example instead of a jail how about a dungeon that you are thrown into that you have to escape that the tribe that captured you made and depending on the severity of your crime is how far you have to go to get out. either way i still don't think one should just magically respawn there you would have to bring then to a hoop or something like that that brings them to the appropriate aria of the dungeon

Who isn't going to give an evil player a deathblow (besides their allies)?

No jail. No dungeon crawls. Nobody pays $$ for that, and it could be horribly abused.

[necoo]

JCatano wrote:


necoo wrote:

just to clarify on the looting thing full loot will only happen when you kill the player if you just knock them unconscious you can take only one item... supposedly that is

with that aside the jail idea needs some work if it is to go into fruition... for example instead of a jail how about a dungeon that you are thrown into that you have to escape that the tribe that captured you made and depending on the severity of your crime is how far you have to go to get out. either way i still don't think one should just magically respawn there you would have to bring then to a hoop or something like that that brings them to the appropriate aria of the dungeon

Who isn't going to give an evil player a deathblow (besides their allies)?

No jail. No dungeon crawls. Nobody pays $$ for that, and it could be horribly abused.
perhaps they would be too busy to give the deathblow...

[JCatano]

necoo wrote:

JCatano wrote:


necoo wrote:

just to clarify on the looting thing full loot will only happen when you kill the player if you just knock them unconscious you can take only one item... supposedly that is

with that aside the jail idea needs some work if it is to go into fruition... for example instead of a jail how about a dungeon that you are thrown into that you have to escape that the tribe that captured you made and depending on the severity of your crime is how far you have to go to get out. either way i still don't think one should just magically respawn there you would have to bring then to a hoop or something like that that brings them to the appropriate aria of the dungeon

Who isn't going to give an evil player a deathblow (besides their allies)?

No jail. No dungeon crawls. Nobody pays $$ for that, and it could be horribly abused.
perhaps they would be too busy to give the deathblow...

o.O

Then, they'd be too busy to loot in general.

That has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Picumnus wrote:

necoo wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.


I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.

ahhh... this always happens... right when we are about to come to an agreement some random guys comes along and brings up points that have already been discussed and dismissed needlessly furthering the conversation into even more dismay and chaos.

Just to clarify.... I am the guy who originally brought up the article and the guy who brought it up again... because the point still stands.

Without having in-game methods for punishing (including getting knocked out and dragged to jail) there is no balance. Players cannot establish rules or laws if the system itself does not allow for this flexibility.

Besides, PVP is not sneaking up behind someone who is gathering wood and stabbing in the back while they are busy with the task at hand... that is murder.

PVP is great... slaughtering unsuspecting people when they have no realistic chance of fighting back is not so good

This is a terrible post with terrible ideas in how to "balance" pvp.

Jail time? wtf!! haha.
Basically people saying that they cant protect themselves so they want people to be punished BEYOND being evil and being restricted and fully lootable.

You kill people you aren't supposed too, you become evil and you deal with all the conquences they give us.

Sneaking up on people is part of the game. If you play afk with the sound off or playing music, that is your fault, not mine. Pay attention and you can hear when someone is coming up on you.
Bang on the rock 10 times. Stop. Look around. Relocate or bang some more.
People are just f-ing lazy.

p.s There will be ingame methods to punish people. We'll see what they are, but from what we've been told, its going to be severe. Be happy you get that.
No amount of consequences are going to stop people from sneaking up on you and taking your goodies though, so deal with it.

[Jadzia]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

Jadzia. You aren't funny.

I didn't even try to be.

[Jadzia]

necoo wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

Jadzia. You aren't funny.

lol anyway since this involves me i shall explain a little about me since you guys seam so interested

first... yes im a teenager and a boy i am 17 but contrary to what you said i don't watch to many action movies and i live in a fairly carefree area with little violence... further more i have had fairly good experiences as i am in collage because when i was 16 i took a test similar to a GED but you get it before you are 18 in doing so i was able to skip the last 2 years of high school and am now in collage

Thanks :) Nice to get to know you a bit better. And I didn't mean my post in any offensive way. I guessed you were a teenager because that kind of rebel thinking is normal in that age...not really normal if you were a 30 year old guy. And I guessed the movies and violent area because you seemed to think that the only way to reach your goals in your life is violence...if its not because you have experienced so in your real life than I'm glad to hear that.

[Jadzia]

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

[shadowlz]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

necoo wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.


I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.

ahhh... this always happens... right when we are about to come to an agreement some random guys comes along and brings up points that have already been discussed and dismissed needlessly furthering the conversation into even more dismay and chaos.

Just to clarify.... I am the guy who originally brought up the article and the guy who brought it up again... because the point still stands.

Without having in-game methods for punishing (including getting knocked out and dragged to jail) there is no balance. Players cannot establish rules or laws if the system itself does not allow for this flexibility.

Besides, PVP is not sneaking up behind someone who is gathering wood and stabbing in the back while they are busy with the task at hand... that is murder.

PVP is great... slaughtering unsuspecting people when they have no realistic chance of fighting back is not so good

This is a terrible post with terrible ideas in how to "balance" pvp.

Jail time? wtf!! haha.
Basically people saying that they cant protect themselves so they want people to be punished BEYOND being evil and being restricted and fully lootable.

You kill people you aren't supposed too, you become evil and you deal with all the conquences they give us.

Sneaking up on people is part of the game. If you play afk with the sound off or playing music, that is your fault, not mine. Pay attention and you can hear when someone is coming up on you.
Bang on the rock 10 times. Stop. Look around. Relocate or bang some more.
People are just f-ing lazy.

p.s There will be ingame methods to punish people. We'll see what they are, but from what we've been told, its going to be severe. Be happy you get that.
No amount of consequences are going to stop people from sneaking up on you and taking your goodies though, so deal with it.

Thank god theres another person who believes in this idea. Im guess our carebears don't feel like moving their heads unless there's an ingame mechanic to do it for them.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

Thankfully, you are not a developer, either.

Pay to play a game where PvP is part of the game, where open PvP is part of the game, yet be punished in a way where you can't take part in a mechanic that is part of the game?

How about this idea:

I PK you 5 times and turn evil, but you cannot participate in PvE, gathering or trading for 5 days, since I PK'd you 5 times.

Oh, and let's not forget that your idea is abusable to infinity and beyond.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

Thankfully, you are not a developer, either.

Pay to play a game where PvP is part of the game, where open PvP is part of the game, yet be punished in a way where you can't take part in a mechanic that is part of the game?

How about this idea:

I PK you 5 times and turn evil, but you cannot participate in PvE, gathering or trading for 5 days, since I PK'd you 5 times.

Oh, and let's not forget that your idea is abusable to infinity and beyond.
Well your post doesn't make much sense. There will be a punishment anyway, so why not turn it into a challenge ?

Being a victim doesn't harm other players so punishment is stupid in that case. You should have said something like I tried to scam you in a trade, and that's why I get the punishment not being able to trade for 5 days. I would say its fair.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

Thankfully, you are not a developer, either.

Pay to play a game where PvP is part of the game, where open PvP is part of the game, yet be punished in a way where you can't take part in a mechanic that is part of the game?

How about this idea:

I PK you 5 times and turn evil, but you cannot participate in PvE, gathering or trading for 5 days, since I PK'd you 5 times.

Oh, and let's not forget that your idea is abusable to infinity and beyond.

Well your post doesn't make much sense. There will be a punishment anyway, so why not turn it into a challenge ?

Being a victim doesn't harm other players so punishment is stupid in that case. You should have said something like I tried to scam you in a trade, and that's why I get the punishment not being able to trade for 5 days. I would say its fair.

It makes plenty of sense. Both of our "ideas" were incredibly stupid and shortsighted based on "me me me me". That was my point.

Exactly.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

Thankfully, you are not a developer, either.

Pay to play a game where PvP is part of the game, where open PvP is part of the game, yet be punished in a way where you can't take part in a mechanic that is part of the game?

How about this idea:

I PK you 5 times and turn evil, but you cannot participate in PvE, gathering or trading for 5 days, since I PK'd you 5 times.

Oh, and let's not forget that your idea is abusable to infinity and beyond.

Well your post doesn't make much sense. There will be a punishment anyway, so why not turn it into a challenge ?

Being a victim doesn't harm other players so punishment is stupid in that case. You should have said something like I tried to scam you in a trade, and that's why I get the punishment not being able to trade for 5 days. I would say its fair.

It makes plenty of sense. Both of our "ideas" were incredibly stupid and shortsighted based on "me me me me". That was my point.

Exactly.

When you are out of arguments, you start calling names ? Smart. Every debate is pointless this way.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

Thankfully, you are not a developer, either.

Pay to play a game where PvP is part of the game, where open PvP is part of the game, yet be punished in a way where you can't take part in a mechanic that is part of the game?

How about this idea:

I PK you 5 times and turn evil, but you cannot participate in PvE, gathering or trading for 5 days, since I PK'd you 5 times.

Oh, and let's not forget that your idea is abusable to infinity and beyond.

Well your post doesn't make much sense. There will be a punishment anyway, so why not turn it into a challenge ?

Being a victim doesn't harm other players so punishment is stupid in that case. You should have said something like I tried to scam you in a trade, and that's why I get the punishment not being able to trade for 5 days. I would say its fair.

It makes plenty of sense. Both of our "ideas" were incredibly stupid and shortsighted based on "me me me me". That was my point.

Exactly.

When you are out of arguments, you start calling names ? Smart. Every debate is pointless this way.

Calling your idea stupid and my "idea" intentionally stupid isn't name-calling. Stop grasping at straws. I never called you stupid.

Your suggestion is just plain ridiculous, because it's not even a realistic mechanic to use against a paying customer when open-PvP is in the game.

[Ciik]

VowOfSilence wrote:

Ciik wrote:

Actually, It's an overly used term by people that are out-gamed in a combative situation by another player that doesnt act as predictably as a computer-controlled mob that is tethered to a leash.

Actually, you are simply wrong.
the internets don't agree with you.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gank
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ganking
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gank
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gank

Actually your response is invalidated by being a sheep to the WoW mentality of adolescent entitlement by referencing one of the most fundamentally carebearish mmorpgs of children available; WoW, and the others that reference WoW. Now drink your warm milk and go to bed for you will be ganked in Xsyon soon due to your inadequate combative skills. But then you will come back here and cry as to why it is unfair that the real player didnt telegraph her aggression towards you can give you a chance to make like a chicken and run.

[Bedouin]

Ciik wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

Ciik wrote:

Actually, It's an overly used term by people that are out-gamed in a combative situation by another player that doesnt act as predictably as a computer-controlled mob that is tethered to a leash.

Actually, you are simply wrong.
the internets don't agree with you.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gank
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ganking
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gank
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gank

Actually your response is invalidated by being a sheep to the WoW mentality of adolescent entitlement by referencing one of the most fundamentally carebearish mmorpgs of children available; WoW, and the others that reference WoW. Now drink your warm milk and go to bed for you will be ganked in Xsyon soon due to your inadequate combative skills. But then you will come back here and cry as to why it is unfair that the real player didnt telegraph her aggression towards you can give you a chance to make like a chicken and run.

Congratulations you have achieved:
Argumentum ad logicam

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

necoo wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

Jhael wrote:

Consequences, sure. But playermade consequences, not an arbitrary system. Just like real life - the "players" have made their laws and the "players" enforce them - there is no magical "hand of god" to "smite" those who do wrong.

You can't kill anyone in real life without severe consequences period. :silly:

Completely agree that rules should not be severe, but since I'll most probably be on the receiving end I perceive the acceptable severity a lot lower then you, who is on the end that never has to face it most probably. Should this not be up to those who actually play this sort of playstyle to say what is and what is not severe enough since you wouldn't exactly know or ever even feel it?

So maybe I am wrong but this sounds like you want to allow criminals to choose their punishment?

The judge says "Well sir you have killed six people for their wallets, what do you think your punishment should be?" PKer says "Well gee judge, I sure am sorry (that I go caught). I really didn't want to actually get a job to make the money when it is so easy to kill people and take their wallets. How about I promise to behave and give you half of what I took from the last guy and we call it even, KK?"

If I am not mistaken that is basically what you just asked for. Seems a little f'ed up IMO.


I agree that the penalties should be established by the player community. But lets say that if you are caught (through losing a fight), where is the prison that I can throw you in? Where are the stockades? The gallows? Since it is a game and not RL I can only work within the boundaries of the game environment. So for the players to be able to enforce the laws that they establish there has to be at least some ability to have punishments.

That is all I want... the ability for players to enforce the laws tat we establish. After all, we are trying to build a society and a society has to have some form of law to succeed, at least in my view.

ahhh... this always happens... right when we are about to come to an agreement some random guys comes along and brings up points that have already been discussed and dismissed needlessly furthering the conversation into even more dismay and chaos.

Just to clarify.... I am the guy who originally brought up the article and the guy who brought it up again... because the point still stands.

Without having in-game methods for punishing (including getting knocked out and dragged to jail) there is no balance. Players cannot establish rules or laws if the system itself does not allow for this flexibility.

Besides, PVP is not sneaking up behind someone who is gathering wood and stabbing in the back while they are busy with the task at hand... that is murder.

PVP is great... slaughtering unsuspecting people when they have no realistic chance of fighting back is not so good
so you are agents mindless murder huh... well i can see why... but is it really so bad, the only reason murder is such a grand crime is because life is the one thing that cannot be regain after it has been lost... but can the same be said in a game... no it cannot and so the crimes weight is lessened and is no longer as grand a crime as it once was.

wow..... people are are shooting at some far of targets with this topic.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

/facepalm
The only reason I even continue reading posts by you Jadzia, is because its worth a laugh.
Honestly, your thoughts on "punishment for pking" and the others you agree with would do nothing more than hamstring the game.
Stop with this halfwit crap. Its like I'm watching diarhea spill all over the thread topics.

ABOUT GETTING SCAMMED:
IF you get scammed in a trade thats YOUR fault. Theres a reason why you join a tribe. Sell and trade within your tribe and other allied tribes to avoid this from happening.

Honestly, you are starting to sound like you want a pair training wheels. someone to hold your hand.

TIP: Dont trade with "reds" outside your city. Dont trade alone if you are doing it with someone you've never traded before. Basically, use your fucking head when it comes to playing the game.


You wonder why certain people decide to grief others? Its because we see this stupid crap all over the place and say to ourselves..."enough is enough".
I'm seriously considering giving you a KOS coupon to my Merc Org.(if I get anyone else haha)
The coupon reads:
"Free ganks whenever they are required(which will be always). No billing necessary.
Sincerly, "Desert Rats".end

[sisler86]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

/facepalm
The only reason I even continue reading posts by you Jadzia, is because its worth a laugh.
Honestly, your thoughts on "punishment for pking" and the others you agree with would do nothing more than hamstring the game.
Stop with this halfwit crap. Its like I'm watching diarhea spill all over the thread topics.

ABOUT GETTING SCAMMED:
IF you get scammed in a trade thats YOUR fault. Theres a reason why you join a tribe. Sell and trade within your tribe and other allied tribes to avoid this from happening.

Honestly, you are starting to sound like you want a pair training wheels. someone to hold your hand.

TIP: Dont trade with "reds" outside your city. Dont trade alone if you are doing it with someone you've never traded before. Basically, use your fucking head when it comes to playing the game.


You wonder why certain people decide to grief others? Its because we see this stupid crap all over the place and say to ourselves..."enough is enough".
I'm seriously considering giving you a KOS coupon to my Merc Org.(if I get anyone else haha)
The coupon reads:
"Free ganks whenever they are required(which will be always). No billing necessary.
Sincerly, "Desert Rats".end

Dude....seriously?

I hate using the stupid Forum lingo, but "trolling" is the only word that fits here. She's just voicing her opinion on a topic that she didn't even bring up. If you disagree with her, that's fine, but don't belittle her or her opinions. Have at least some respect.

[PANZERBUNNY]

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

/facepalm
The only reason I even continue reading posts by you Jadzia, is because its worth a laugh.
Honestly, your thoughts on "punishment for pking" and the others you agree with would do nothing more than hamstring the game.
Stop with this halfwit crap. Its like I'm watching diarhea spill all over the thread topics.

ABOUT GETTING SCAMMED:
IF you get scammed in a trade thats YOUR fault. Theres a reason why you join a tribe. Sell and trade within your tribe and other allied tribes to avoid this from happening.

Honestly, you are starting to sound like you want a pair training wheels. someone to hold your hand.

TIP: Dont trade with "reds" outside your city. Dont trade alone if you are doing it with someone you've never traded before. Basically, use your fucking head when it comes to playing the game.


You wonder why certain people decide to grief others? Its because we see this stupid crap all over the place and say to ourselves..."enough is enough".
I'm seriously considering giving you a KOS coupon to my Merc Org.(if I get anyone else haha)
The coupon reads:
"Free ganks whenever they are required(which will be always). No billing necessary.
Sincerly, "Desert Rats".end

Dude....seriously?

I hate using the stupid Forum lingo, but "trolling" is the only word that fits here. She's just voicing her opinion on a topic that she didn't even bring up. If you disagree with her, that's fine, but don't belittle her or her opinions. Have at least some respect.

This whole thread is a fucking troll now. Just because its someones "opinion" doesn't mean its not stupid.

[sisler86]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

/facepalm
The only reason I even continue reading posts by you Jadzia, is because its worth a laugh.
Honestly, your thoughts on "punishment for pking" and the others you agree with would do nothing more than hamstring the game.
Stop with this halfwit crap. Its like I'm watching diarhea spill all over the thread topics.

ABOUT GETTING SCAMMED:
IF you get scammed in a trade thats YOUR fault. Theres a reason why you join a tribe. Sell and trade within your tribe and other allied tribes to avoid this from happening.

Honestly, you are starting to sound like you want a pair training wheels. someone to hold your hand.

TIP: Dont trade with "reds" outside your city. Dont trade alone if you are doing it with someone you've never traded before. Basically, use your fucking head when it comes to playing the game.


You wonder why certain people decide to grief others? Its because we see this stupid crap all over the place and say to ourselves..."enough is enough".
I'm seriously considering giving you a KOS coupon to my Merc Org.(if I get anyone else haha)
The coupon reads:
"Free ganks whenever they are required(which will be always). No billing necessary.
Sincerly, "Desert Rats".end

Dude....seriously?

I hate using the stupid Forum lingo, but "trolling" is the only word that fits here. She's just voicing her opinion on a topic that she didn't even bring up. If you disagree with her, that's fine, but don't belittle her or her opinions. Have at least some respect.

This whole thread is a fucking troll now. Just because its someones "opinion" doesn't mean its not stupid.

No need for a response to that because you proved your own point.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Sure thing cowboy. Luv you.

[sisler86]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Sure thing cowboy. Luv you.

I'm not discrediting you or your opinion on the matter, I just think you should at least show the same respect.

[PANZERBUNNY]

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Sure thing cowboy. Luv you.

I'm not discrediting you or your opinion on the matter, I just think you should at least show the same respect.

I haven't seen many opinions in this thread. I've seen alot of ideas. Stupid ones.

A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: "The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion" (Elizabeth Drew).
A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
The prevailing view: public opinion.
Law A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.

[sisler86]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Sure thing cowboy. Luv you.

I'm not discrediting you or your opinion on the matter, I just think you should at least show the same respect.

I haven't seen many opinions in this thread. I've seen alot of ideas. Stupid ones.

A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: "The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion" (Elizabeth Drew).
A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
The prevailing view: public opinion.
Law A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.

An idea is an imaginative vision formulated by an opinion of something. They are not the exact same thing, but they are closely related and they rely on one another.

All of that is irrelevant anyway and you completely dodged my point. No one's opinion or "ideas" are stupid. You may disagree with them, but I assure you that for every idea that you disagree with there is someone out there who does. This is a debate. There will be a difference in opinion...that is the point, but to belittle somebody and claim their idea or opinion is stupid is not only ironically hypocritical, but just plain childish. Especially when that person isn't even present to defend themselves.

My point: Grow up and show some respect. Not only for other's views, but for yourself and the tribe that you are representing.

[JCatano]

sisler -

You aren't getting into Jadzia's pants. :P


P.S. -

Hurry up and prove to me you have a real game, Xsyon. Today's Darkfall announcement made me want to cancel ASAP.

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

sisler -

You aren't getting into Jadzia's pants. :P


P.S. -

Hurry up and prove to me you have a real game, Xsyon. Today's Darkfall announcement made me want to cancel ASAP.

Seriously? C'mon people.... :huh:

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler -

You aren't getting into Jadzia's pants. :P


P.S. -

Hurry up and prove to me you have a real game, Xsyon. Today's Darkfall announcement made me want to cancel ASAP.

Seriously? C'mon people.... :huh:

No, not "seriously". Well, maybe a little.

Thin skin?

[PANZERBUNNY]

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Sure thing cowboy. Luv you.

I'm not discrediting you or your opinion on the matter, I just think you should at least show the same respect.

I haven't seen many opinions in this thread. I've seen alot of ideas. Stupid ones.

A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: "The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion" (Elizabeth Drew).
A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
The prevailing view: public opinion.
Law A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.

An idea is an imaginative vision formulated by an opinion of something. They are not the exact same thing, but they are closely related and they rely on one another.

All of that is irrelevant anyway and you completely dodged my point. No one's opinion or "ideas" are stupid. You may disagree with them, but I assure you that for every idea that you disagree with there is someone out there who does. This is a debate. There will be a difference in opinion...that is the point, but to belittle somebody and claim their idea or opinion is stupid is not only ironically hypocritical, but just plain childish. Especially when that person isn't even present to defend themselves.

My point: Grow up and show some respect. Not only for other's views, but for yourself and the tribe that you are representing.

Declaring someone stupid doesn't mean I'm acting childish. I dont tolerate half wit, half retarded conversation in real life, why would I tolerate it here?
I've had it with all the "me me me", as has already been pointed out in this thread.

Contrary to popular belief, opinions can be dumb....very dumb...so stupid as to rot my faith in people.
Also, I dont HAVE to respect anyone and I most certainly dont have to respect someone just because YOU tell me too.
Maybe you should grow up. I'm not the one forcing my "opnions" of respect on other people.

p.s Shes a big girl and can take care of herself. She doesn't need a white knight to play daddy for her.(Not unless its the weekend already.)
If someone cant take harsh critcism, they shouldn't be posting on a public forum.

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler -

You aren't getting into Jadzia's pants. :P


P.S. -

Hurry up and prove to me you have a real game, Xsyon. Today's Darkfall announcement made me want to cancel ASAP.

Seriously? C'mon people.... :huh:

No, not "seriously". Well, maybe a little.

Thin skin?

Nah, I'm good. B)

That was a bit rude though. Not to me, but to her.

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler -

You aren't getting into Jadzia's pants. :P


P.S. -

Hurry up and prove to me you have a real game, Xsyon. Today's Darkfall announcement made me want to cancel ASAP.

Seriously? C'mon people.... :huh:

No, not "seriously". Well, maybe a little.

Thin skin?

Nah, I'm good. B)

That was a bit rude though. Not to me, but to her.

Nevermind. I was being totally serious. ;)

[sisler86]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Sure thing cowboy. Luv you.

I'm not discrediting you or your opinion on the matter, I just think you should at least show the same respect.

I haven't seen many opinions in this thread. I've seen alot of ideas. Stupid ones.

A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: "The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion" (Elizabeth Drew).
A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
The prevailing view: public opinion.
Law A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.

An idea is an imaginative vision formulated by an opinion of something. They are not the exact same thing, but they are closely related and they rely on one another.

All of that is irrelevant anyway and you completely dodged my point. No one's opinion or "ideas" are stupid. You may disagree with them, but I assure you that for every idea that you disagree with there is someone out there who does. This is a debate. There will be a difference in opinion...that is the point, but to belittle somebody and claim their idea or opinion is stupid is not only ironically hypocritical, but just plain childish. Especially when that person isn't even present to defend themselves.

My point: Grow up and show some respect. Not only for other's views, but for yourself and the tribe that you are representing.

Declaring someone stupid doesn't mean I'm acting childish. I dont tolerate half wit, half retarded conversation in real life, why would I tolerate it here?
I've had it with all the "me me me", as has already been pointed out in this thread.

Contrary to popular belief, opinions can be dumb....very dumb...so stupid as to rot my faith in people.
Also, I dont HAVE to respect anyone and I most certainly dont have to respect someone just because YOU tell me too.
Maybe you should grow up. I'm not the one forcing my "opnions" of respect on other people.

p.s Shes a big girl and can take care of herself. She doesn't need a white knight to play daddy for her.(Not unless its the weekend already.)
If someone cant take harsh critcism, they shouldn't be posting on a public forum.

How can you possibly read what you just typed out in anger and say that you are not being childish? And the whole making me feel like I'm giving her special treatment thing is not working. If it were anyone else then I'd have done the same. And if Jadzia was online right now then we wouldn't be having this conversation because you are right, she is a big girl and she can fight her own battles, but she is not here to defend herself, so I stepped in.

[VowOfSilence]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

I haven't seen many opinions in this thread.

Well, here's my opinion summed up once again:

1) Xsyon is a sandbox RPG (duh). Thus, the focus is on creating a living, breathing roleplaying world. PvP is possible in this world, as it should be, but it's not the focus in any way.

2) However, some people will abuse this sandbox RPG as a huge Unreal Tournament arena. They only care about killing and dominating other players, and maybe some trolling now and then. To them, that's the whole point of the game. Their actions are mostly unrelated to the gameworld, backstory, immersion, their own character, or - god forbid - a basic sense of ethics and compassion.

3) Naturally, this playstyle is incompatible with what other players want. The PKer's "playstyle" will ultimately indeed turn the game world into Unreal Tournament, with a similar amount of depth. To keep that from happening, the game rules need to keep the PKers in check, because keeping a sandbox RPG from turning into Unreal Tournament just isn't the players' job.

4) Both the players and the devs need to make up their minds on what kind of game they really want, because you can't have both.

[PANZERBUNNY]

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Sure thing cowboy. Luv you.

I'm not discrediting you or your opinion on the matter, I just think you should at least show the same respect.

I haven't seen many opinions in this thread. I've seen alot of ideas. Stupid ones.

A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: "The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion" (Elizabeth Drew).
A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
The prevailing view: public opinion.
Law A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.

An idea is an imaginative vision formulated by an opinion of something. They are not the exact same thing, but they are closely related and they rely on one another.

All of that is irrelevant anyway and you completely dodged my point. No one's opinion or "ideas" are stupid. You may disagree with them, but I assure you that for every idea that you disagree with there is someone out there who does. This is a debate. There will be a difference in opinion...that is the point, but to belittle somebody and claim their idea or opinion is stupid is not only ironically hypocritical, but just plain childish. Especially when that person isn't even present to defend themselves.

My point: Grow up and show some respect. Not only for other's views, but for yourself and the tribe that you are representing.

Declaring someone stupid doesn't mean I'm acting childish. I dont tolerate half wit, half retarded conversation in real life, why would I tolerate it here?
I've had it with all the "me me me", as has already been pointed out in this thread.

Contrary to popular belief, opinions can be dumb....very dumb...so stupid as to rot my faith in people.
Also, I dont HAVE to respect anyone and I most certainly dont have to respect someone just because YOU tell me too.
Maybe you should grow up. I'm not the one forcing my "opnions" of respect on other people.

p.s Shes a big girl and can take care of herself. She doesn't need a white knight to play daddy for her.(Not unless its the weekend already.)
If someone cant take harsh critcism, they shouldn't be posting on a public forum.

How can you possibly read what you just typed out in anger and say that you are not being childish? And the whole making me feel like I'm giving her special treatment thing is not working. If it were anyone else then I'd have done the same. And if Jadzia was online right now then we wouldn't be having this conversation because you are right, she is a big girl and she can fight her own battles, but she is not here to defend herself, so I stepped in.

The beauty of a thread is that she can go back and read it herself. After that she can choose to respond.
You are such a hero.

Just because YOU think I was writting in anger, doesn't mean it was. I'm actually a very calm and collective person. I just wont pander to bullshit.
Again, put your words out on the int3rwebs and expect that some people wont like your dribbling ideas.

Well

[Jadzia]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

/facepalm
The only reason I even continue reading posts by you Jadzia, is because its worth a laugh.
Honestly, your thoughts on "punishment for pking" and the others you agree with would do nothing more than hamstring the game.
Stop with this halfwit crap. Its like I'm watching diarhea spill all over the thread topics.

ABOUT GETTING SCAMMED:
IF you get scammed in a trade thats YOUR fault. Theres a reason why you join a tribe. Sell and trade within your tribe and other allied tribes to avoid this from happening.

Honestly, you are starting to sound like you want a pair training wheels. someone to hold your hand.

TIP: Dont trade with "reds" outside your city. Dont trade alone if you are doing it with someone you've never traded before. Basically, use your fucking head when it comes to playing the game.



I'm honestly getting the feeling that you guys do have some problem with reading. Who said I was worried about being scammed ? In my example I said that what if I scam him.
Thanks for your kind tips, I suggest you to use your head yourself ( I just leave the bad words, its not my style...), especially when it comes to reading and understanding posts.

[PANZERBUNNY]

VowOfSilence wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

I haven't seen many opinions in this thread.

Well, here's my opinion summed up once again:

1) Xsyon is a sandbox RPG (duh). Thus, the focus is on creating a living, breathing roleplaying world. PvP is possible in this world, as it should be, but it's not the focus in any way.

2) However, some people will abuse this sandbox RPG as a huge Unreal Tournament arena. They only care about killing and dominating other players, and maybe some trolling now and then. To them, that's the whole point of the game. Their actions are mostly unrelated to the gameworld, backstory, immersion, their own character, or - god forbid - a basic sense of ethics and compassion.

3) Naturally, this playstyle is incompatible with what other players want. The PKer's "playstyle" will ultimately indeed turn the game world into Unreal Tournament, with a similar amount of depth. To keep that from happening, the game rules need to keep the PKers in check, because keeping a sandbox RPG from turning into Unreal Tournament just isn't the players' job.

4) Both the players and the devs need to make up their minds on what kind of game they really want, because you can't have both.

Remember, opinions are usually educated or from experience.(not saying you aren't educated)
These are assumptions. They've stated there will be huge penalties for being evil. What more do people want? Seriously...

Even darkfall is a far cry from "unreal tournament with swords".(and that game is a pking cluster fuck!!!.)

Its all alot of doom and gloom.

There will be abuse in every system. That much I'm sure of and that much I can agree on. Its the price of doing business really.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

/facepalm
The only reason I even continue reading posts by you Jadzia, is because its worth a laugh.
Honestly, your thoughts on "punishment for pking" and the others you agree with would do nothing more than hamstring the game.
Stop with this halfwit crap. Its like I'm watching diarhea spill all over the thread topics.

ABOUT GETTING SCAMMED:
IF you get scammed in a trade thats YOUR fault. Theres a reason why you join a tribe. Sell and trade within your tribe and other allied tribes to avoid this from happening.

Honestly, you are starting to sound like you want a pair training wheels. someone to hold your hand.

TIP: Dont trade with "reds" outside your city. Dont trade alone if you are doing it with someone you've never traded before. Basically, use your fucking head when it comes to playing the game.



I'm honestly getting the feeling that you guys do have some problem with reading. Who said I was worried about being scammed ? In my example I said that what if I scam him.
Thanks for your kind tips, I suggest you to use your head yourself ( I just leave the bad words, its not my style...), especially when it comes to reading and understanding posts.

I may has misread about the scamming thing(sorry abotu that), but it still shows that certain people think "training wheels for my barbie sims character" is a good thing. Its not. The more restraints that are in place the more that the player base will bleed out.

Pkers know what reasonable punishment is and when its not enough they "LOL all the way to the bank with your stuff".
Pkers wont quit the game with reasonable punishment and non pkers wont leave either. Theres a balance and it wont favour either side.

[sisler86]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

/facepalm
The only reason I even continue reading posts by you Jadzia, is because its worth a laugh.
Honestly, your thoughts on "punishment for pking" and the others you agree with would do nothing more than hamstring the game.
Stop with this halfwit crap. Its like I'm watching diarhea spill all over the thread topics.

ABOUT GETTING SCAMMED:
IF you get scammed in a trade thats YOUR fault. Theres a reason why you join a tribe. Sell and trade within your tribe and other allied tribes to avoid this from happening.

Honestly, you are starting to sound like you want a pair training wheels. someone to hold your hand.

TIP: Dont trade with "reds" outside your city. Dont trade alone if you are doing it with someone you've never traded before. Basically, use your fucking head when it comes to playing the game.



I'm honestly getting the feeling that you guys do have some problem with reading. Who said I was worried about being scammed ? In my example I said that what if I scam him.
Thanks for your kind tips, I suggest you to use your head yourself ( I just leave the bad words, its not my style...), especially when it comes to reading and understanding posts.

I may has misread about the scamming thing(sorry abotu that), but it still shows that certain people think "training wheels for my barbie sims character" is a good thing. Its not. The more restraints that are in place the more that the player base will bleed out.

Pkers know what reasonable punishment is and when its not enough they "LOL all the way to the bank with your stuff".
Pkers wont quit the game with reasonable punishment and non pkers wont leave either. Theres a balance and it wont favour either side.

I'm sure that there are more than one of those far left "extremist" Pk's that would disagree. I'm not saying I am by any means one of those, but I have encountered them more than once. :P

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

Thankfully, you are not a developer, either.

Pay to play a game where PvP is part of the game, where open PvP is part of the game, yet be punished in a way where you can't take part in a mechanic that is part of the game?

How about this idea:

I PK you 5 times and turn evil, but you cannot participate in PvE, gathering or trading for 5 days, since I PK'd you 5 times.

Oh, and let's not forget that your idea is abusable to infinity and beyond.

Well your post doesn't make much sense. There will be a punishment anyway, so why not turn it into a challenge ?

Being a victim doesn't harm other players so punishment is stupid in that case. You should have said something like I tried to scam you in a trade, and that's why I get the punishment not being able to trade for 5 days. I would say its fair.

It makes plenty of sense. Both of our "ideas" were incredibly stupid and shortsighted based on "me me me me". That was my point.

Exactly.

Ok, let's try again. Try to be open-minded, and forget your preconception about my thinking. If you read my post, the goal wasn't the punishment part. I said the penalty can be 3 days or whatever...whatever as in 3 days, 1 day, 1 hour or 1 min.

My personal opinion is that the penalty should be at least 1 day to give a thrill to the PKers, to give a meaning to avoid being caught. But if you don't like this kind of challenge, thats fine too. Thats why I said the penalty should be fined down in game...regarding to the players feedback. The PKers should tell what is the amount of penalty time what adds to their game experience, and what amount is bugging.
The goal of my idea was to create an opportunity to became a world famous bandit...like 'wow that guy haven't been caught for 3 months !'. So again...my idea can even work without a penalty, but would be less challenging that way.

I hope you and PANZER understand it now....if still not, go ahead and ask, but please try to act like you were civilized men. We are not in the game yet. But if you have an intention to roleplay an asshole, thats fine too, I understand if you say it fits well to your personality :)

[Jadzia]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Sure thing cowboy. Luv you.

I'm not discrediting you or your opinion on the matter, I just think you should at least show the same respect.

I haven't seen many opinions in this thread. I've seen alot of ideas. Stupid ones.

A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: "The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion" (Elizabeth Drew).
A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
The prevailing view: public opinion.
Law A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.

An idea is an imaginative vision formulated by an opinion of something. They are not the exact same thing, but they are closely related and they rely on one another.

All of that is irrelevant anyway and you completely dodged my point. No one's opinion or "ideas" are stupid. You may disagree with them, but I assure you that for every idea that you disagree with there is someone out there who does. This is a debate. There will be a difference in opinion...that is the point, but to belittle somebody and claim their idea or opinion is stupid is not only ironically hypocritical, but just plain childish. Especially when that person isn't even present to defend themselves.

My point: Grow up and show some respect. Not only for other's views, but for yourself and the tribe that you are representing.

Declaring someone stupid doesn't mean I'm acting childish. I dont tolerate half wit, half retarded conversation in real life, why would I tolerate it here?
I've had it with all the "me me me", as has already been pointed out in this thread.

Contrary to popular belief, opinions can be dumb....very dumb...so stupid as to rot my faith in people.
Also, I dont HAVE to respect anyone and I most certainly dont have to respect someone just because YOU tell me too.
Maybe you should grow up. I'm not the one forcing my "opnions" of respect on other people.

p.s Shes a big girl and can take care of herself. She doesn't need a white knight to play daddy for her.(Not unless its the weekend already.)
If someone cant take harsh critcism, they shouldn't be posting on a public forum.

How can you possibly read what you just typed out in anger and say that you are not being childish? And the whole making me feel like I'm giving her special treatment thing is not working. If it were anyone else then I'd have done the same. And if Jadzia was online right now then we wouldn't be having this conversation because you are right, she is a big girl and she can fight her own battles, but she is not here to defend herself, so I stepped in.

The beauty of a thread is that she can go back and read it herself. After that she can choose to respond.
You are such a hero.

Just because YOU think I was writting in anger, doesn't mean it was. I'm actually a very calm and collective person. I just wont pander to bullshit.
Again, put your words out on the int3rwebs and expect that some people wont like your dribbling ideas.

Well

You are right, I can read back, and I did. It was really funny sometimes ! When you said you are a very calm man I laughed out loud :) Seeing adult men acting like kids in a kindergarten..honestly...:)
And it was nice that there are people, who knows that arguing doesn't mean name calling, insulting and intentional offending. Sisler didn't act like he was trying to get into my pants ( come on kids, I used this argument last time when I was 6 ) but as someone who doesn't like brainless arguments and childish behavior.

PANZER, perhaps your life is hard and it eases your mind if you can be rude through the net without being responsible for your words...but don't belittle yourself this much. If you have something to say, say it with real arguments, and don't get personal and offending, that only makes people feel that you are owned but too coward to admit it. If you feel a debate is pointless, close it normally, and you will gain much more respect.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

About the jailed-banned debate...Someone had a nice idea I really liked, he said the PKers should be banned from the game for 1 week, but only if he get caught.

Well I think the banning is too harsh...we can't expect a paying customer to accept that. The problem is the same with the jail. But the other part of the idea is nice, I mean PvPers are competitive type players, they do want to be better or even the best. So what if the game has a counter for every player, which counts the PK kills and how many days has passed since he got caught last time.
If the player get caught after a PK action, his kill counter restarts from 0, and he isn't jailed or banned, but he can't take part in PvP for a week. He can play the game normally, only the PvP part is restricted. The week-long penalty can be 3 days or whatever, it can be fined down in the game, based on players' feedback.

I'm really interested in the PvPers opinion, would they like a system where they can see who is the best one or better one, where they can keep a track on their PKing and escaping skills with a penalty what is not that harsh but still gives you the feeling you made something wrong ? ( wrong as in you got caught, not the PK )

Thankfully, you are not a developer, either.

Pay to play a game where PvP is part of the game, where open PvP is part of the game, yet be punished in a way where you can't take part in a mechanic that is part of the game?

How about this idea:

I PK you 5 times and turn evil, but you cannot participate in PvE, gathering or trading for 5 days, since I PK'd you 5 times.

Oh, and let's not forget that your idea is abusable to infinity and beyond.

Well your post doesn't make much sense. There will be a punishment anyway, so why not turn it into a challenge ?

Being a victim doesn't harm other players so punishment is stupid in that case. You should have said something like I tried to scam you in a trade, and that's why I get the punishment not being able to trade for 5 days. I would say its fair.

It makes plenty of sense. Both of our "ideas" were incredibly stupid and shortsighted based on "me me me me". That was my point.

Exactly.

Ok, let's try again. Try to be open-minded, and forget your preconception about my thinking. If you read my post, the goal wasn't the punishment part. I said the penalty can be 3 days or whatever...whatever as in 3 days, 1 day, 1 hour or 1 min.

My personal opinion is that the penalty should be at least 1 day to give a thrill to the PKers, to give a meaning to avoid being caught. But if you don't like this kind of challenge, thats fine too. Thats why I said the penalty should be fined down in game...regarding to the players feedback. The PKers should tell what is the amount of penalty time what adds to their game experience, and what amount is bugging.
The goal of my idea was to create an opportunity to became a world famous bandit...like 'wow that guy haven't been caught for 3 months !'. So again...my idea can even work without a penalty, but would be less challenging that way.

I hope you and PANZER understand it now....if still not, go ahead and ask, but please try to act like you were civilized men. We are not in the game yet. But if you have an intention to roleplay an asshole, thats fine too, I understand if you say it fits well to your personality :)

A time penalty does not give a thrill. It gives an annoyance factor. One that would even make people cancel. The thrill would be me PK'ing your Tree Chopping Master character, then trying to battle your tribe while they are chasing after me for doing so.

Get it?

There are punishments. 5 kills = Evil. Everyone is allowed to attack you without consequence. I would guess they will be able to fully loot an evil person, too.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:


A time penalty does not give a thrill. It gives an annoyance factor. One that would even make people cancel. The thrill would be me PK'ing your Tree Chopping Master character, then trying to battle your tribe while they are chasing after me for doing so.

Get it?

There are punishments. 5 kills = Evil. Everyone is allowed you attack you without consequence. I would guess they will be able to fully loot an evil person, too.

Time penalty would only take effect if you are caught after the PK, not every time so its not a penalty for PKing. And i doubt anyone would quit if he can't PK for 1 hour after getting caught. Thats a good opportunity to try out other game features. But if you don't like it thats fine and one vote for no, I'm interested
in other PvPers opinion too.

[NearlyDeparted]

i don't think its a good idea to block a paying customer access to a game for using ingame features. In my opinion, a worth while 'thrill' would be that the PK'er would get a kill location ping sent out on whatever regional chat is available. Call it a cry for help by the person PK'ed. Run away, camp the corpse, or hide in wait for those coming to help.

That would make it fun for both sides.

As a note: I am not a PK'er, but I would join a hunting party.

[sisler86]

NearlyDeparted wrote:

i don't think its a good idea to block a paying customer access to a game for using ingame features. In my opinion, a worth while 'thrill' would be that the PK'er would get a kill location ping sent out on whatever regional chat is available. Call it a cry for help by the person PK'ed. Run away, camp the corpse, or hide in wait for those coming to help.

That would make it fun for both sides.

As a note: I am not a PK'er, but I would join a hunting party.

How about this? If a PK attacks someone and wins then they should be flagged (marked on everyone's map) for a certain period of time identifying him as a PK. This would only occur in an unprovoked attack between two non-warring tribes. This would alert any other players of his/her status for that certain period to allow them to prepare, evade, or go after him/her.

[shadowlz]

I would take a better Approch a few games have taken, but it would require a bit more work.

Basically all crimes (Theft, Murder, Assault) would all give you bad evilman points. Lets say murder is 10 points, so you go kill some tool mining, then his buddy comes and you kill him too. That makes 20 points against the tool's tribe. Now if the tools tribe catches you (Knocks you unconscious) and drags your stupid ass back to camp, they can put you in some kind of lul prison where you sit and mine and chop down trees for the tool tribe, T3 (No relation) for how every many points that would account for.

So 20 points could equal idk, fucking 50 logs or 20 carebear ore or w/e everything would have a value, then when you pay your debt you deposit the carebear ore and/or Morning wood, and that tribe gets it transfers to their carebear guild bank.

Obviously they take your 1 item when they knock your stupid ass out too.


And all the PKers will bitch now b/c they have to do something they dont wanna do, well to bad, the carebears didnt wanna die, dont get caught next time.



This will also prevent killing the same person over and over again, because you'll amass a huge Carebear Prison Points (CPP) and once they knock your dumbass out, you'll be in there for ages. So they would leave you alone while their CPP degrades.

[Jadzia]

sisler86 wrote:

NearlyDeparted wrote:

i don't think its a good idea to block a paying customer access to a game for using ingame features. In my opinion, a worth while 'thrill' would be that the PK'er would get a kill location ping sent out on whatever regional chat is available. Call it a cry for help by the person PK'ed. Run away, camp the corpse, or hide in wait for those coming to help.

That would make it fun for both sides.

As a note: I am not a PK'er, but I would join a hunting party.

How about this? If a PK attacks someone and wins then they should be flagged (marked on everyone's map) for a certain period of time identifying him as a PK. This would only occur in an unprovoked attack between two non-warring tribes. This would alert any other players of his/her status for that certain period to allow them to prepare, evade, or go after him/her.

I'm off to watch Battlestar Galactica now, but I'm looking forward to see how these ideas turn out after some debate, both sound interesting !

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


A time penalty does not give a thrill. It gives an annoyance factor. One that would even make people cancel. The thrill would be me PK'ing your Tree Chopping Master character, then trying to battle your tribe while they are chasing after me for doing so.

Get it?

There are punishments. 5 kills = Evil. Everyone is allowed you attack you without consequence. I would guess they will be able to fully loot an evil person, too.

Time penalty would only take effect if you are caught after the PK, not every time so its not a penalty for PKing. And i doubt anyone would quit if he can't PK for 1 hour after getting caught. Thats a good opportunity to try out other game features. But if you don't like it thats fine and one vote for no, I'm interested
in other PvPers opinion too.

You are not going to get a mechanic implemented where a feature is blocked for a paying customer.

And where do you get the idea that a "PK'er" only likes PvP?

sisler -

How about anyone who chops a tree has their icon flash on a map for a certain period of time? This would only happen if you chop a tree that isn't within your town's sphere of influence......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............................................

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


A time penalty does not give a thrill. It gives an annoyance factor. One that would even make people cancel. The thrill would be me PK'ing your Tree Chopping Master character, then trying to battle your tribe while they are chasing after me for doing so.

Get it?

There are punishments. 5 kills = Evil. Everyone is allowed you attack you without consequence. I would guess they will be able to fully loot an evil person, too.

Time penalty would only take effect if you are caught after the PK, not every time so its not a penalty for PKing. And i doubt anyone would quit if he can't PK for 1 hour after getting caught. Thats a good opportunity to try out other game features. But if you don't like it thats fine and one vote for no, I'm interested
in other PvPers opinion too.

You are not going to get a mechanic implemented where a feature is blocked for a paying customer.

And where do you get the idea that a "PK'er" only likes PvP?

sisler -

How about anyone who chops a tree has their icon flash on a map for a certain period of time? This would only happen if you chop a tree that isn't within your town's sphere of influence......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............................................

I understand where you are coming from, but it wouldn't be an unfair advantage to the good players. It would only happen if the PK won the fight and only in an unprovoked attack. Basically a "gank" as some would call it.

In my opinion it would be a reasonable downside to committing an evil act. At least more so than you spending time in a prison. I gotta say, I think that idea is too biased towards the good side.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:


You are not going to get a mechanic implemented where a feature is blocked for a paying customer.

I've played a subscription based game with jail system, where the PKer ( if he got caught) had to spend time in the jail. The more he killed the more time he was locked up, but again, only when he was caught. Some of my friends who did Pk loved this feature, they said it made the game very immersive.



And where do you get the idea that a "PK'er" only likes PvP?

Really, your questions always surprise me. They make me feel that you don't reply to my posts, but to someone else's. Where did I say that I think PvPers don't enjoy other activities ? I assumed the opposite, saying they can try out other features in the game when they can't take part in PvP, so they won't feel this time was wasted, as they were having fun doing other things. Thats why I said banning from the game or even jail system is too harsh, they would be bored...but if they can play the game apart of PvPing for a short amount of time, they won't be bored. Seems its you who think a PvPer can only have fun by PKing...you said a PKer would quit if he wasn't able to PK for a day or an hour.

[necoo]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


You are not going to get a mechanic implemented where a feature is blocked for a paying customer.

I've played a subscription based game with jail system, where the PKer ( if he got caught) had to spend time in the jail. The more he killed the more time he was locked up, but again, only when he was caught. Some of my friends who did Pk loved this feature, they said it made the game very immersive.



And where do you get the idea that a "PK'er" only likes PvP?

Really, your questions always surprise me. They make me feel that you don't reply to my posts, but to someone else's. Where did I say that I think PvPers don't enjoy other activities ? I assumed the opposite, saying they can try out other features in the game when they can't take part in PvP, so they won't feel this time was wasted, as they were having fun doing other things. Thats why I said banning from the game or even jail system is too harsh, they would be bored...but if they can play the game apart of PvPing for a short amount of time, they won't be bored. Seems its you who think a PvPer can only have fun by PKing...you said a PKer would quit if he wasn't able to PK for a day or an hour.
is this conversation still going on.... shouldn't it have already been established that the game mechanics cannot be made to hurt a player but simply act like the laws of physics and only govern what we can do and not prevent use from doing anything that is physically possible... a jail system is fine but it cannot be integrated into the game mechanic because it would be unfair if one all of a sudden respawed in jail.... the only way such a thing would be possible would be if another player were to drag the player that caused the crime to the jail, or some sort of other "arresting" system that would make the player that is arresting the other player to take the time to manually bring the player to jail.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


You are not going to get a mechanic implemented where a feature is blocked for a paying customer.

I've played a subscription based game with jail system, where the PKer ( if he got caught) had to spend time in the jail. The more he killed the more time he was locked up, but again, only when he was caught. Some of my friends who did Pk loved this feature, they said it made the game very immersive.



And where do you get the idea that a "PK'er" only likes PvP?

Really, your questions always surprise me. They make me feel that you don't reply to my posts, but to someone else's. Where did I say that I think PvPers don't enjoy other activities ? I assumed the opposite, saying they can try out other features in the game when they can't take part in PvP, so they won't feel this time was wasted, as they were having fun doing other things. Thats why I said banning from the game or even jail system is too harsh, they would be bored...but if they can play the game apart of PvPing for a short amount of time, they won't be bored. Seems its you who think a PvPer can only have fun by PKing...you said a PKer would quit if he wasn't able to PK for a day or an hour.

Care to name the game where your friends loved not actually playing it?


Jadzia wrote:

Time penalty would only take effect if you are caught after the PK, not every time so its not a penalty for PKing. And i doubt anyone would quit if he can't PK for 1 hour after getting caught. Thats a good opportunity to try out other game features. But if you don't like it thats fine and one vote for no, I'm interested in other PvPers opinion too.

The bold doesn't imply that a PK'er would only be PvP'ing if he wasn't banned from the mechanic?

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


You are not going to get a mechanic implemented where a feature is blocked for a paying customer.

I've played a subscription based game with jail system, where the PKer ( if he got caught) had to spend time in the jail. The more he killed the more time he was locked up, but again, only when he was caught. Some of my friends who did Pk loved this feature, they said it made the game very immersive.



And where do you get the idea that a "PK'er" only likes PvP?

Really, your questions always surprise me. They make me feel that you don't reply to my posts, but to someone else's. Where did I say that I think PvPers don't enjoy other activities ? I assumed the opposite, saying they can try out other features in the game when they can't take part in PvP, so they won't feel this time was wasted, as they were having fun doing other things. Thats why I said banning from the game or even jail system is too harsh, they would be bored...but if they can play the game apart of PvPing for a short amount of time, they won't be bored. Seems its you who think a PvPer can only have fun by PKing...you said a PKer would quit if he wasn't able to PK for a day or an hour.

Care to name the game where your friends loved not actually playing it?


Jadzia wrote:

Time penalty would only take effect if you are caught after the PK, not every time so its not a penalty for PKing. And i doubt anyone would quit if he can't PK for 1 hour after getting caught. Thats a good opportunity to try out other game features. But if you don't like it thats fine and one vote for no, I'm interested in other PvPers opinion too.

The bold doesn't imply that a PK'er would only be PvP'ing if he wasn't banned from the mechanic?

I may be completely wrong, I haven't played it in years, but didn't Ultima Online have a prison system like that?

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


A time penalty does not give a thrill. It gives an annoyance factor. One that would even make people cancel. The thrill would be me PK'ing your Tree Chopping Master character, then trying to battle your tribe while they are chasing after me for doing so.

Get it?

There are punishments. 5 kills = Evil. Everyone is allowed you attack you without consequence. I would guess they will be able to fully loot an evil person, too.

Time penalty would only take effect if you are caught after the PK, not every time so its not a penalty for PKing. And i doubt anyone would quit if he can't PK for 1 hour after getting caught. Thats a good opportunity to try out other game features. But if you don't like it thats fine and one vote for no, I'm interested
in other PvPers opinion too.

You are not going to get a mechanic implemented where a feature is blocked for a paying customer.

And where do you get the idea that a "PK'er" only likes PvP?

sisler -

How about anyone who chops a tree has their icon flash on a map for a certain period of time? This would only happen if you chop a tree that isn't within your town's sphere of influence......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............................................

I understand where you are coming from, but it wouldn't be an unfair advantage to the good players. It would only happen if the PK won the fight and only in an unprovoked attack. Basically a "gank" as some would call it.

In my opinion it would be a reasonable downside to committing an evil act. At least more so than you spending time in a prison. I gotta say, I think that idea is too biased towards the good side.

So, being red and having a big ol' target on your back because of it isn't enough of a penalty? It's not like all reds are the elite PvP'ers. They'll get their ass handed to them as much as anyone. Possibly even moreso, since they are attackable without penalty (even by other reds).

[JCatano]

Not, sure. I never played UO.

*Edit*

Actually, I think there was one. No idea if it lasted, since I never played.

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


A time penalty does not give a thrill. It gives an annoyance factor. One that would even make people cancel. The thrill would be me PK'ing your Tree Chopping Master character, then trying to battle your tribe while they are chasing after me for doing so.

Get it?

There are punishments. 5 kills = Evil. Everyone is allowed you attack you without consequence. I would guess they will be able to fully loot an evil person, too.

Time penalty would only take effect if you are caught after the PK, not every time so its not a penalty for PKing. And i doubt anyone would quit if he can't PK for 1 hour after getting caught. Thats a good opportunity to try out other game features. But if you don't like it thats fine and one vote for no, I'm interested
in other PvPers opinion too.

You are not going to get a mechanic implemented where a feature is blocked for a paying customer.

And where do you get the idea that a "PK'er" only likes PvP?

sisler -

How about anyone who chops a tree has their icon flash on a map for a certain period of time? This would only happen if you chop a tree that isn't within your town's sphere of influence......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............................................

I understand where you are coming from, but it wouldn't be an unfair advantage to the good players. It would only happen if the PK won the fight and only in an unprovoked attack. Basically a "gank" as some would call it.

In my opinion it would be a reasonable downside to committing an evil act. At least more so than you spending time in a prison. I gotta say, I think that idea is too biased towards the good side.

So, being red and having a big ol' target on your back because of it isn't enough of a penalty? It's not like all reds are the elite PvP'ers. They'll get their ass handed to them as much as anyone. Possibly even moreso, since they are attackable without penalty (even by other reds).

No no, I think you're misunderstanding me. People have been worrying about the "gankers" and mindless unprovoked PKing that has taken over other MMO's out there and I was offering up my suggestion on a method that may deter people from that. Just throwing in my two cents. I personally think that this game will have a pretty good balance by itself, but if it ever got to the point where the devs needed to add more of a restriction on out of hand PKing then I just think that is one thing they can do that isn't completely unreasonable. No amount of restriction on PKing is going to be "fair" to the PvP's but if they do decide to do it then they can at least come up with something that isn't ridiculously crippling. I think a prison would be taking it way too far.

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

No no, I think you're misunderstanding me. People have been worrying about the "gankers" and mindless unprovoked PKing that has taken over other MMO's out there and I was offering up my suggestion on a method that may deter people from that. Just throwing in my two cents. I personally think that this game will have a pretty good balance by itself, but if it ever got to the point where the devs needed to add more of a restriction on out of hand PKing then I just think that is one thing they can do that isn't completely unreasonable. No amount of restriction on PKing is going to be "fair" to the PvP's but if they do decide to do it then they can at least come up with something that isn't ridiculously crippling. I think a prison would be taking it way too far.

But, what is your definition of "unprovoked" as far as a computer game (I understand the real definition, of course)? Simply a person killing a blue who is chopping wood? Bind-camping? The former isn't a problem with me. Someone is going to want the wood. That spurs the action of the attack. The attack has a purpose: To get the wood for use. It's not griefing like a few people have implied, or flat out said, that it is.

Turning red after 5 attacks of that nature seems completely fair to me, especially when I haven't read of a way to get back to blue.

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:


sisler86 wrote:

No no, I think you're misunderstanding me. People have been worrying about the "gankers" and mindless unprovoked PKing that has taken over other MMO's out there and I was offering up my suggestion on a method that may deter people from that. Just throwing in my two cents. I personally think that this game will have a pretty good balance by itself, but if it ever got to the point where the devs needed to add more of a restriction on out of hand PKing then I just think that is one thing they can do that isn't completely unreasonable. No amount of restriction on PKing is going to be "fair" to the PvP's but if they do decide to do it then they can at least come up with something that isn't ridiculously crippling. I think a prison would be taking it way too far.

But, what is your definition of "unprovoked" as far as a computer game (I understand the real definition, of course)? Simply a person killing a blue who is chopping wood? Bind-camping? The former isn't a problem with me. Someone is going to want the wood. That spurs the action of the attack. The attack has a purpose: To get the wood for use. It's not griefing like a few people have implied, or flat out said, that it is.

Turning red after 5 attacks of that nature seems completely fair to me, especially when I haven't read of a way to get back to blue.

I do agree with that to an extent. Every kill is situational which makes it hard if not impossible for a game mechanic to determine the intent of the kill. The thing that I do agree with Jadzia on though is that I would not consider killing someone who is minding their own business and chopping wood "okay" behavior, but that is a personal opinion.

The bottom line is this (and has been mentioned before). In a world where open PvP exists, one side is never going to be happy. Either, the game is not going to be fun for the active PvP's because the PvP system has been so nerf'd or the game is not going to be fun for the non active PvP's because they are getting killed while chopping wood.

And you can't just tell the non-PvP's to get over it because to them, getting killed while chopping wood is just as "unfun" as it is for a PvP'er to spend time not being able to play the way they want because of a stupid prison or something. It'll be an ongoing battle that eventually will drive one side or the other away from playing the game like it always does. It just depends on who the devs side with on the issue.

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:


sisler86 wrote:

No no, I think you're misunderstanding me. People have been worrying about the "gankers" and mindless unprovoked PKing that has taken over other MMO's out there and I was offering up my suggestion on a method that may deter people from that. Just throwing in my two cents. I personally think that this game will have a pretty good balance by itself, but if it ever got to the point where the devs needed to add more of a restriction on out of hand PKing then I just think that is one thing they can do that isn't completely unreasonable. No amount of restriction on PKing is going to be "fair" to the PvP's but if they do decide to do it then they can at least come up with something that isn't ridiculously crippling. I think a prison would be taking it way too far.

But, what is your definition of "unprovoked" as far as a computer game (I understand the real definition, of course)? Simply a person killing a blue who is chopping wood? Bind-camping? The former isn't a problem with me. Someone is going to want the wood. That spurs the action of the attack. The attack has a purpose: To get the wood for use. It's not griefing like a few people have implied, or flat out said, that it is.

Turning red after 5 attacks of that nature seems completely fair to me, especially when I haven't read of a way to get back to blue.

I do agree with that to an extent. Every kill is situational which makes it hard if not impossible for a game mechanic to determine the intent of the kill. The thing that I do agree with Jadzia on though is that I would not consider killing someone who is minding their own business and chopping wood "okay" behavior, but that is a personal opinion.

The bottom line is this (and has been mentioned before). In a world where open PvP exists, one side is never going to be happy. Either, the game is not going to be fun for the active PvP's because the PvP system has been so nerf'd or the game is not going to be fun for the non active PvP's because they are getting killed while chopping wood.

And you can't just tell the non-PvP's to get over it because to them, getting killed while chopping wood is just as "unfun" as it is for a PvP'er to spend time not being able to play the way they want because of a stupid prison or something. It'll be an ongoing battle that eventually will drive one side or the other away from playing the game like it always does. It just depends on who the devs side with on the issue.

I agree, but people who aren't ok with unprovoked PvP should not play a game that states open-PvP as a mechanic. I think that shows the vision the devs have for PvP.

You don't go to a Ford dealership and ask for a Chevy. You look for a Ford dealership.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


You are not going to get a mechanic implemented where a feature is blocked for a paying customer.

I've played a subscription based game with jail system, where the PKer ( if he got caught) had to spend time in the jail. The more he killed the more time he was locked up, but again, only when he was caught. Some of my friends who did Pk loved this feature, they said it made the game very immersive.



And where do you get the idea that a "PK'er" only likes PvP?

Really, your questions always surprise me. They make me feel that you don't reply to my posts, but to someone else's. Where did I say that I think PvPers don't enjoy other activities ? I assumed the opposite, saying they can try out other features in the game when they can't take part in PvP, so they won't feel this time was wasted, as they were having fun doing other things. Thats why I said banning from the game or even jail system is too harsh, they would be bored...but if they can play the game apart of PvPing for a short amount of time, they won't be bored. Seems its you who think a PvPer can only have fun by PKing...you said a PKer would quit if he wasn't able to PK for a day or an hour.

Care to name the game where your friends loved not actually playing it?

Bounty Bay Online.

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


Time penalty would only take effect if you are caught after the PK, not every time so its not a penalty for PKing. And i doubt anyone would quit if he can't PK for 1 hour after getting caught. Thats a good opportunity to try out other game features. But if you don't like it thats fine and one vote for no, I'm interested in other PvPers opinion too.

The bold doesn't imply that a PK'er would only be PvP'ing if he wasn't banned from the mechanic?
It does imply that, but doesn't imply I had an idea that PKers only like PvP. What I meant was that people have preferences, and probably a PKer will prefer killing to other activities. But that doesn't mean he can't or won't enjoy building or crafting when he gets there. You know, its like when you are playing a game on the computer, and a power-failure turns up which takes long. You are like 'dang I can't play...' but some minutes later you are like 'Oh well nevermind, at least I can finish the book I was reading.'

[Jadzia]

necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


You are not going to get a mechanic implemented where a feature is blocked for a paying customer.

I've played a subscription based game with jail system, where the PKer ( if he got caught) had to spend time in the jail. The more he killed the more time he was locked up, but again, only when he was caught. Some of my friends who did Pk loved this feature, they said it made the game very immersive.



And where do you get the idea that a "PK'er" only likes PvP?

Really, your questions always surprise me. They make me feel that you don't reply to my posts, but to someone else's. Where did I say that I think PvPers don't enjoy other activities ? I assumed the opposite, saying they can try out other features in the game when they can't take part in PvP, so they won't feel this time was wasted, as they were having fun doing other things. Thats why I said banning from the game or even jail system is too harsh, they would be bored...but if they can play the game apart of PvPing for a short amount of time, they won't be bored. Seems its you who think a PvPer can only have fun by PKing...you said a PKer would quit if he wasn't able to PK for a day or an hour.
is this conversation still going on.... shouldn't it have already been established that the game mechanics cannot be made to hurt a player but simply act like the laws of physics and only govern what we can do and not prevent use from doing anything that is physically possible... a jail system is fine but it cannot be integrated into the game mechanic because it would be unfair if one all of a sudden respawed in jail.... the only way such a thing would be possible would be if another player were to drag the player that caused the crime to the jail, or some sort of other "arresting" system that would make the player that is arresting the other player to take the time to manually bring the player to jail.

I agree with you, a jail system is absurd if a PKer respawn in a jail after a kill,he should be caught by other players (or perhaps NPC if he goes to a city or something).

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:


sisler86 wrote:

No no, I think you're misunderstanding me. People have been worrying about the "gankers" and mindless unprovoked PKing that has taken over other MMO's out there and I was offering up my suggestion on a method that may deter people from that. Just throwing in my two cents. I personally think that this game will have a pretty good balance by itself, but if it ever got to the point where the devs needed to add more of a restriction on out of hand PKing then I just think that is one thing they can do that isn't completely unreasonable. No amount of restriction on PKing is going to be "fair" to the PvP's but if they do decide to do it then they can at least come up with something that isn't ridiculously crippling. I think a prison would be taking it way too far.

But, what is your definition of "unprovoked" as far as a computer game (I understand the real definition, of course)? Simply a person killing a blue who is chopping wood? Bind-camping? The former isn't a problem with me. Someone is going to want the wood. That spurs the action of the attack. The attack has a purpose: To get the wood for use. It's not griefing like a few people have implied, or flat out said, that it is.

Turning red after 5 attacks of that nature seems completely fair to me, especially when I haven't read of a way to get back to blue.

I do agree with that to an extent. Every kill is situational which makes it hard if not impossible for a game mechanic to determine the intent of the kill. The thing that I do agree with Jadzia on though is that I would not consider killing someone who is minding their own business and chopping wood "okay" behavior, but that is a personal opinion.

The bottom line is this (and has been mentioned before). In a world where open PvP exists, one side is never going to be happy. Either, the game is not going to be fun for the active PvP's because the PvP system has been so nerf'd or the game is not going to be fun for the non active PvP's because they are getting killed while chopping wood.

And you can't just tell the non-PvP's to get over it because to them, getting killed while chopping wood is just as "unfun" as it is for a PvP'er to spend time not being able to play the way they want because of a stupid prison or something. It'll be an ongoing battle that eventually will drive one side or the other away from playing the game like it always does. It just depends on who the devs side with on the issue.

I agree, but people who aren't ok with unprovoked PvP should not play a game that states open-PvP as a mechanic. I think that shows the vision the devs have for PvP.

You don't go to a Ford dealership and ask for a Chevy. You look for a Ford dealership.

I understand what you're getting at, and the best I can do is offer up my personal experience and opinion. First, the devs have said that yes, there is an open PvP system, but PvP will be a smaller part of the game and they said that they would even go as far as making changes to ensure that it stays that way. That being said, that is one of the things that drew me to this game (and I'm sure other non-PvP's). I saw this as a game that focuses on the building, crafting, and exploring aspects of an MMO which you don't find too often. I don't mind a bit of PvP, but I do not want to be forced into a fight if I decide that I want to spend the day gathering materials for a house or something. Just because you can go up to someone and attack them, doesn't mean you should. They may not want to PvP that day and you just ruined their game experience.

Now if the game was just full of people like you and myself, then I wouldn't be too worried, but when every day there is another new tribe popping up that even labels themselves as PK's and are recruiting people to do nothing but go around and "gank" people...that worries me a bit. It's a post-apocalyptic sandbox, not the thunderdome. We should all be entitled to play how we want to play. If a sandbox RPG didn't offer open PvP would you still call it a sandbox? No, because in a sandbox, you play how you want. You shape the world. Well, that appeals very much to non-PvP's as well.

I hope, if nothing else, that little story there at the very least helps you to understand why non-PvP's would like to play this game too.

[Wrekkoning]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:


sisler86 wrote:

No no, I think you're misunderstanding me. People have been worrying about the "gankers" and mindless unprovoked PKing that has taken over other MMO's out there and I was offering up my suggestion on a method that may deter people from that. Just throwing in my two cents. I personally think that this game will have a pretty good balance by itself, but if it ever got to the point where the devs needed to add more of a restriction on out of hand PKing then I just think that is one thing they can do that isn't completely unreasonable. No amount of restriction on PKing is going to be "fair" to the PvP's but if they do decide to do it then they can at least come up with something that isn't ridiculously crippling. I think a prison would be taking it way too far.

But, what is your definition of "unprovoked" as far as a computer game (I understand the real definition, of course)? Simply a person killing a blue who is chopping wood? Bind-camping? The former isn't a problem with me. Someone is going to want the wood. That spurs the action of the attack. The attack has a purpose: To get the wood for use. It's not griefing like a few people have implied, or flat out said, that it is.

Turning red after 5 attacks of that nature seems completely fair to me, especially when I haven't read of a way to get back to blue.

I do agree with that to an extent. Every kill is situational which makes it hard if not impossible for a game mechanic to determine the intent of the kill. The thing that I do agree with Jadzia on though is that I would not consider killing someone who is minding their own business and chopping wood "okay" behavior, but that is a personal opinion.

The bottom line is this (and has been mentioned before). In a world where open PvP exists, one side is never going to be happy. Either, the game is not going to be fun for the active PvP's because the PvP system has been so nerf'd or the game is not going to be fun for the non active PvP's because they are getting killed while chopping wood.

And you can't just tell the non-PvP's to get over it because to them, getting killed while chopping wood is just as "unfun" as it is for a PvP'er to spend time not being able to play the way they want because of a stupid prison or something. It'll be an ongoing battle that eventually will drive one side or the other away from playing the game like it always does. It just depends on who the devs side with on the issue.

I agree, but people who aren't ok with unprovoked PvP should not play a game that states open-PvP as a mechanic. I think that shows the vision the devs have for PvP.

You don't go to a Ford dealership and ask for a Chevy. You look for a Ford dealership.


I do not want to be forced into a fight if I decide that I want to spend the day gathering materials for a house or something. Just because you can go up to someone and attack them, doesn't mean you should. They may not want to PvP that day and you just ruined their game experience.


Translation: I want to kill other people when its easy for me, and want to be completely safe the rest of the time. Just Because they could kill me when I'm AFK logging doesnt mean I want them to. I may want to harvest all day, and by not being killed, it makes the game better for me.

This is what makes a sand box game bub. EVERYONE gets to play how they want, and they live with the consequences of their actions.

[sisler86]

Wrekkoning wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:


sisler86 wrote:

No no, I think you're misunderstanding me. People have been worrying about the "gankers" and mindless unprovoked PKing that has taken over other MMO's out there and I was offering up my suggestion on a method that may deter people from that. Just throwing in my two cents. I personally think that this game will have a pretty good balance by itself, but if it ever got to the point where the devs needed to add more of a restriction on out of hand PKing then I just think that is one thing they can do that isn't completely unreasonable. No amount of restriction on PKing is going to be "fair" to the PvP's but if they do decide to do it then they can at least come up with something that isn't ridiculously crippling. I think a prison would be taking it way too far.

But, what is your definition of "unprovoked" as far as a computer game (I understand the real definition, of course)? Simply a person killing a blue who is chopping wood? Bind-camping? The former isn't a problem with me. Someone is going to want the wood. That spurs the action of the attack. The attack has a purpose: To get the wood for use. It's not griefing like a few people have implied, or flat out said, that it is.

Turning red after 5 attacks of that nature seems completely fair to me, especially when I haven't read of a way to get back to blue.

I do agree with that to an extent. Every kill is situational which makes it hard if not impossible for a game mechanic to determine the intent of the kill. The thing that I do agree with Jadzia on though is that I would not consider killing someone who is minding their own business and chopping wood "okay" behavior, but that is a personal opinion.

The bottom line is this (and has been mentioned before). In a world where open PvP exists, one side is never going to be happy. Either, the game is not going to be fun for the active PvP's because the PvP system has been so nerf'd or the game is not going to be fun for the non active PvP's because they are getting killed while chopping wood.

And you can't just tell the non-PvP's to get over it because to them, getting killed while chopping wood is just as "unfun" as it is for a PvP'er to spend time not being able to play the way they want because of a stupid prison or something. It'll be an ongoing battle that eventually will drive one side or the other away from playing the game like it always does. It just depends on who the devs side with on the issue.

I agree, but people who aren't ok with unprovoked PvP should not play a game that states open-PvP as a mechanic. I think that shows the vision the devs have for PvP.

You don't go to a Ford dealership and ask for a Chevy. You look for a Ford dealership.


I do not want to be forced into a fight if I decide that I want to spend the day gathering materials for a house or something. Just because you can go up to someone and attack them, doesn't mean you should. They may not want to PvP that day and you just ruined their game experience.


Translation: I want to kill other people when its easy for me, and want to be completely safe the rest of the time. Just Because they could kill me when I'm AFK logging doesnt mean I want them to. I may want to harvest all day, and by not being killed, it makes the game better for me.

This is what makes a sand box game bub. EVERYONE gets to play how they want, and they live with the consequences of their actions.

That was quite possibly the worst translation I have seen yet on these forums... good try though. :P

You also missed the entire point of what I was trying to say. I understand that there are people out there who think that PK is fair, and I support that even if I disagree, but I was speaking on behalf of the non-PvP's out there and explaining why this game and the sandbox world as a whole appeals to them as well.

And for the record, the statement, "I want to kill other people when its easy for me, and want to be completely safe the rest of the time." is completely untrue and biased. This game allows tribes to declare war for a reason. That would be PvP that I would like to get involved in. PvP because someone else is too busy killing players to collect their own wood and selfishly wants mine is not. That is laziness and childish. (again, just my opinion)

Oh and I never gather resources while AFK, that is just dumb and defeats the entire purpose of playing a video game.

and did you just call me "Bub?" :huh:

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:


I agree, but people who aren't ok with unprovoked PvP should not play a game that states open-PvP as a mechanic. I think that shows the vision the devs have for PvP.

You don't go to a Ford dealership and ask for a Chevy. You look for a Ford dealership.

Open PvP as a game mechanic means that anyone can attack anyone anywhere, no safe zones or level ranges, but it doesnt say anything about the penalties it may be followed by.Thats a decision the developers made.

Another decision what they have made that this PK action will have severe consequences. What all this debate is about how severe and what those consequences should be. We know they are already coded, but we hardly have any information...so we are playing with ideas and guessing how the actual system may work.

What will you do, if it turns out there is a jail system in the game, and if you PK someone you have to spend 2 hours in the jail ? ( I'm not saying it should be this way, I'm asking what your reaction would be....since open PvP doesn't mean that there is no jail, so it may happen.)

[Twosock]

Been trying to read true this wall of text that is this topic so might have missed something.

Think you missed a few points.
As far as i know red is monsters of the world. does that mean attackable by all other tribes (including evil?)
Sounds like evil vs evil tribe as option in this game as well this is a tribe based faction system is it not.
Would one evil tribe stand another one? Friction?!
Sure you can make alliances and wars with any tribe with limits we dont know.

Know that good vs good can happen as well. But not wars only rivals as most as they said. if i remeber correctly.

[necoo]

meradin wrote:

Been trying to read true this wall of text that is this topic so might have missed something.

Think you missed a few points.
As far as i know red is monsters of the world. does that mean attackable by all other tribes (including evil?)
Sounds like evil vs evil tribe as option in this game as well this is a tribe based faction system is it not.
Would one evil tribe stand another one? Friction?!
Sure you can make alliances and wars with any tribe with limits we dont know.

Know that good vs good can happen as well. But not wars only rivals as most as they said. if i remeber correctly.
yeah... srry about the "wall of text"... this may be the most controversial topic but... that is only because every now and then some ultra carebear want's to impose exceedingly harsh and dumb punishments, or means of protection (such as a flag system), that keeps this topic going

[sisler86]

meradin wrote:

Been trying to read true this wall of text that is this topic so might have missed something.

Think you missed a few points.
As far as i know red is monsters of the world. does that mean attackable by all other tribes (including evil?)
Sounds like evil vs evil tribe as option in this game as well this is a tribe based faction system is it not.
Would one evil tribe stand another one? Friction?!
Sure you can make alliances and wars with any tribe with limits we dont know.

Know that good vs good can happen as well. But not wars only rivals as most as they said. if i remeber correctly.

lol, there is a lot of useless conversation in this thread. Someone should start a fresh thread solely for this debate. I think that this is a little off-topic from the OP's intention anyway.

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

meradin wrote:

Been trying to read true this wall of text that is this topic so might have missed something.

Think you missed a few points.
As far as i know red is monsters of the world. does that mean attackable by all other tribes (including evil?)
Sounds like evil vs evil tribe as option in this game as well this is a tribe based faction system is it not.
Would one evil tribe stand another one? Friction?!
Sure you can make alliances and wars with any tribe with limits we dont know.

Know that good vs good can happen as well. But not wars only rivals as most as they said. if i remeber correctly.

lol, there is a lot of useless conversation in this thread. Someone should start a fresh thread solely for this debate. I think that this is a little off-topic from the OP's intention anyway.
or perhaps a summary of past conversations of this thread to base all further conversations on

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

meradin wrote:

Been trying to read true this wall of text that is this topic so might have missed something.

Think you missed a few points.
As far as i know red is monsters of the world. does that mean attackable by all other tribes (including evil?)
Sounds like evil vs evil tribe as option in this game as well this is a tribe based faction system is it not.
Would one evil tribe stand another one? Friction?!
Sure you can make alliances and wars with any tribe with limits we dont know.

Know that good vs good can happen as well. But not wars only rivals as most as they said. if i remeber correctly.

lol, there is a lot of useless conversation in this thread. Someone should start a fresh thread solely for this debate. I think that this is a little off-topic from the OP's intention anyway.
or perhaps a summary of past conversations of this thread to base all further conversations on

It shall be named: Red vs Blue, And Your Opinions Too! :laugh:

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

meradin wrote:

Been trying to read true this wall of text that is this topic so might have missed something.

Think you missed a few points.
As far as i know red is monsters of the world. does that mean attackable by all other tribes (including evil?)
Sounds like evil vs evil tribe as option in this game as well this is a tribe based faction system is it not.
Would one evil tribe stand another one? Friction?!
Sure you can make alliances and wars with any tribe with limits we dont know.

Know that good vs good can happen as well. But not wars only rivals as most as they said. if i remeber correctly.

lol, there is a lot of useless conversation in this thread. Someone should start a fresh thread solely for this debate. I think that this is a little off-topic from the OP's intention anyway.
or perhaps a summary of past conversations of this thread to base all further conversations on

It shall be named: Red vs Blue, And Your Opinions Too! :laugh:
reb vs blue huh... ok everyone off to that topic when sisler makes it

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

meradin wrote:

Been trying to read true this wall of text that is this topic so might have missed something.

Think you missed a few points.
As far as i know red is monsters of the world. does that mean attackable by all other tribes (including evil?)
Sounds like evil vs evil tribe as option in this game as well this is a tribe based faction system is it not.
Would one evil tribe stand another one? Friction?!
Sure you can make alliances and wars with any tribe with limits we dont know.

Know that good vs good can happen as well. But not wars only rivals as most as they said. if i remeber correctly.

lol, there is a lot of useless conversation in this thread. Someone should start a fresh thread solely for this debate. I think that this is a little off-topic from the OP's intention anyway.
or perhaps a summary of past conversations of this thread to base all further conversations on

It shall be named: Red vs Blue, And Your Opinions Too! :laugh:
reb vs blue huh... ok everyone off to that topic when sisler makes it

Or how about The Gr8 Db8! (The great debate for all of you who have no imagination) lol

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


I agree, but people who aren't ok with unprovoked PvP should not play a game that states open-PvP as a mechanic. I think that shows the vision the devs have for PvP.

You don't go to a Ford dealership and ask for a Chevy. You look for a Ford dealership.

Open PvP as a game mechanic means that anyone can attack anyone anywhere, no safe zones or level ranges, but it doesnt say anything about the penalties it may be followed by.Thats a decision the developers made.

Another decision what they have made that this PK action will have severe consequences. What all this debate is about how severe and what those consequences should be. We know they are already coded, but we hardly have any information...so we are playing with ideas and guessing how the actual system may work.

What will you do, if it turns out there is a jail system in the game, and if you PK someone you have to spend 2 hours in the jail ? ( I'm not saying it should be this way, I'm asking what your reaction would be....since open PvP doesn't mean that there is no jail, so it may happen.)

Ah yes... That blockbuster MMO: Bounty Bay Online ;)

There is a penalty. You turn evil and everyone can attempt to beat the hell out of you all day without alignment hits. That's not a light penalty when we don't even know if we can turn back to blue. Any other penalties? Who knows.

What would I do if there was jail for PK'ing a blue I wasn't at war with? I wouldn't play Xsyon. First, because I'm not going to play a game where I have to sit and do nothing or manipulate some minigame to have the content opened back up, and second... It would be exploited like crazy. I could have an alt account as bait and put people in jail on a daily basis.

sisler -

A sandbox doesn't have to have open-PvP. Pre-NGE SWG was a very good sandbox and it was faction-PvP. If anything, you and Jadzia should be asking for that... Not prison, time-bans, etc.

I probably wouldn't play Xsyon if it was faction-based, but it's better than the other suggestions.

[necoo]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


I agree, but people who aren't ok with unprovoked PvP should not play a game that states open-PvP as a mechanic. I think that shows the vision the devs have for PvP.

You don't go to a Ford dealership and ask for a Chevy. You look for a Ford dealership.

Open PvP as a game mechanic means that anyone can attack anyone anywhere, no safe zones or level ranges, but it doesnt say anything about the penalties it may be followed by.Thats a decision the developers made.

Another decision what they have made that this PK action will have severe consequences. What all this debate is about how severe and what those consequences should be. We know they are already coded, but we hardly have any information...so we are playing with ideas and guessing how the actual system may work.

What will you do, if it turns out there is a jail system in the game, and if you PK someone you have to spend 2 hours in the jail ? ( I'm not saying it should be this way, I'm asking what your reaction would be....since open PvP doesn't mean that there is no jail, so it may happen.)

Ah yes... That blockbuster MMO: Bounty Bay Online ;)

There is a penalty. You turn evil and everyone can attempt to beat the hell out of you all day without alignment hits. That's not a light penalty when we don't even know if we can turn back to blue. Any other penalties? Who knows.

What would I do if there was jail for PK'ing a blue I wasn't at war with? I wouldn't play Xsyon. First, because I'm not going to play a game where I have to sit and do nothing or manipulate some minigame to have the content opened back up, and second... It would be exploited like crazy. I could have an alt account as bait and put people in jail on a daily basis.

sisler -

A sandbox doesn't have to have open-PvP. Pre-NGE SWG was a very good sandbox and it was faction-PvP. If anything, you and Jadzia should be asking for that... Not prison, time-bans, etc.

I probably wouldn't play Xsyon if it was faction-based, but it's better than the other suggestions.

it is too late for that open-pvp is already part of the game there is no more point to debate this.... in fact i do believe i have already said something refuting this already... but im not going through 373 post just to find out when

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


I agree, but people who aren't ok with unprovoked PvP should not play a game that states open-PvP as a mechanic. I think that shows the vision the devs have for PvP.

You don't go to a Ford dealership and ask for a Chevy. You look for a Ford dealership.

Open PvP as a game mechanic means that anyone can attack anyone anywhere, no safe zones or level ranges, but it doesnt say anything about the penalties it may be followed by.Thats a decision the developers made.

Another decision what they have made that this PK action will have severe consequences. What all this debate is about how severe and what those consequences should be. We know they are already coded, but we hardly have any information...so we are playing with ideas and guessing how the actual system may work.

What will you do, if it turns out there is a jail system in the game, and if you PK someone you have to spend 2 hours in the jail ? ( I'm not saying it should be this way, I'm asking what your reaction would be....since open PvP doesn't mean that there is no jail, so it may happen.)

Ah yes... That blockbuster MMO: Bounty Bay Online ;)

There is a penalty. You turn evil and everyone can attempt to beat the hell out of you all day without alignment hits. That's not a light penalty when we don't even know if we can turn back to blue. Any other penalties? Who knows.

What would I do if there was jail for PK'ing a blue I wasn't at war with? I wouldn't play Xsyon. First, because I'm not going to play a game where I have to sit and do nothing or manipulate some minigame to have the content opened back up, and second... It would be exploited like crazy. I could have an alt account as bait and put people in jail on a daily basis.

sisler -

A sandbox doesn't have to have open-PvP. Pre-NGE SWG was a very good sandbox and it was faction-PvP. If anything, you and Jadzia should be asking for that... Not prison, time-bans, etc.

I probably wouldn't play Xsyon if it was faction-based, but it's better than the other suggestions.

it is too late for that open-pvp is already part of the game there is no more point to debate this.... in fact i do believe i have already said something refuting this already... but im not going through 373 post just to find out when

I honestly really couldn't care less at this point, but we need something to talk about. No one posts up any other interesting topics so we all just flock to this one and continue on..

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:



A sandbox doesn't have to have open-PvP. Pre-NGE SWG was a very good sandbox and it was faction-PvP. If anything, you and Jadzia should be asking for that... Not prison, time-bans, etc.

At first I was asking for that...especially PvP zones, its realistic (outlaw area) and if its presented well the area attracts not only PvPers but potential victims too.

[sisler86]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:



A sandbox doesn't have to have open-PvP. Pre-NGE SWG was a very good sandbox and it was faction-PvP. If anything, you and Jadzia should be asking for that... Not prison, time-bans, etc.

At first I was asking for that...especially PvP zones, its realistic (outlaw area) and if its presented well the area attracts not only PvPers but potential victims too.

This was one of the first things that I had been asking for as well. Like put the best resources in those designated PvP areas, or neutral zones, but make them so that no one can officially "claim them" you just have to go in there and look for them. It would be a risk and I think it would be fun.

This didn't sit well with a lot of people either and actually started this whole debate.

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:



A sandbox doesn't have to have open-PvP. Pre-NGE SWG was a very good sandbox and it was faction-PvP. If anything, you and Jadzia should be asking for that... Not prison, time-bans, etc.

At first I was asking for that...especially PvP zones, its realistic (outlaw area) and if its presented well the area attracts not only PvPers but potential victims too.

This was one of the first things that I had been asking for as well. Like put the best resources in those designated PvP areas, or neutral zones, but make them so that no one can officially "claim them" you just have to go in there and look for them. It would be a risk and I think it would be fun.

This didn't sit well with a lot of people either and actually started this whole debate.
yeah and the reason it didn't sit well with me is, although it may seem realistic, it is unrealistic... for example if i felt like it i could just go out randomly stabbing people in my peaceful little neighborhood and nothing could stop me unless someone started fighting back in this case even a peaceful area could be come a PvP zone ( in this case person vs person)

[Jadzia]

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:



A sandbox doesn't have to have open-PvP. Pre-NGE SWG was a very good sandbox and it was faction-PvP. If anything, you and Jadzia should be asking for that... Not prison, time-bans, etc.

At first I was asking for that...especially PvP zones, its realistic (outlaw area) and if its presented well the area attracts not only PvPers but potential victims too.

This was one of the first things that I had been asking for as well. Like put the best resources in those designated PvP areas, or neutral zones, but make them so that no one can officially "claim them" you just have to go in there and look for them. It would be a risk and I think it would be fun.

This didn't sit well with a lot of people either and actually started this whole debate.

Exactly. PKing someone who is on treasure hunting in the outlaw area ( and perhaps has already found his-her treasure) is much more interesting and rewarding than PKing someone in a normal area who has a matchbox and 2 logs on him.

[necoo]

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:



A sandbox doesn't have to have open-PvP. Pre-NGE SWG was a very good sandbox and it was faction-PvP. If anything, you and Jadzia should be asking for that... Not prison, time-bans, etc.

At first I was asking for that...especially PvP zones, its realistic (outlaw area) and if its presented well the area attracts not only PvPers but potential victims too.

This was one of the first things that I had been asking for as well. Like put the best resources in those designated PvP areas, or neutral zones, but make them so that no one can officially "claim them" you just have to go in there and look for them. It would be a risk and I think it would be fun.

This didn't sit well with a lot of people either and actually started this whole debate.

Exactly. PKing someone who is on treasure hunting in the outlaw area ( and perhaps has already found his-her treasure) is much more interesting and rewarding than PKing someone in a normal area who has a matchbox and 2 logs on him.
fortunately for you guys i wouldn't kill you if all you had was a match book and 2 logs... i would rather go for the strong guys with the ultimate swords and shields that can sell for millions

[JCatano]

I don't like PvP zones/Safe zones, unless there were restrictions for the crafters in safe zones. You could just buy materials and supply your Tribe in complete safety. Not a fan of that.

Faction-PvP can also lead to that, because the person not in a Tribe would be safe, but still able to supply a Tribe (or Tribes) of their choice. This was actually a big gripe from many people in SWG.

It really depends on the game. As I said before, I had no problem with the way DAoC was set up, but their features and mechanics are not nearly as dynamic as Xsyon's list.

[Jadzia]

necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


Exactly. PKing someone who is on treasure hunting in the outlaw area ( and perhaps has already found his-her treasure) is much more interesting and rewarding than PKing someone in a normal area who has a matchbox and 2 logs on him.
fortunately for you guys i wouldn't kill you if all you had was a match book and 2 logs... i would rather go for the strong guys with the ultimate swords and shields that can sell for millions
If every PKer would think the same way as you do, we wouldn't have to be worried about mindless ganking and meaningless random PKs.I was never able to understand why is it fun to kill someone who is way lower level or not armed. Where is the challenge in that ?

[VowOfSilence]

Wrekkoning wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:


sisler86 wrote:

No no, I think you're misunderstanding me. People have been worrying about the "gankers" and mindless unprovoked PKing that has taken over other MMO's out there and I was offering up my suggestion on a method that may deter people from that. Just throwing in my two cents. I personally think that this game will have a pretty good balance by itself, but if it ever got to the point where the devs needed to add more of a restriction on out of hand PKing then I just think that is one thing they can do that isn't completely unreasonable. No amount of restriction on PKing is going to be "fair" to the PvP's but if they do decide to do it then they can at least come up with something that isn't ridiculously crippling. I think a prison would be taking it way too far.

But, what is your definition of "unprovoked" as far as a computer game (I understand the real definition, of course)? Simply a person killing a blue who is chopping wood? Bind-camping? The former isn't a problem with me. Someone is going to want the wood. That spurs the action of the attack. The attack has a purpose: To get the wood for use. It's not griefing like a few people have implied, or flat out said, that it is.

Turning red after 5 attacks of that nature seems completely fair to me, especially when I haven't read of a way to get back to blue.

I do agree with that to an extent. Every kill is situational which makes it hard if not impossible for a game mechanic to determine the intent of the kill. The thing that I do agree with Jadzia on though is that I would not consider killing someone who is minding their own business and chopping wood "okay" behavior, but that is a personal opinion.

The bottom line is this (and has been mentioned before). In a world where open PvP exists, one side is never going to be happy. Either, the game is not going to be fun for the active PvP's because the PvP system has been so nerf'd or the game is not going to be fun for the non active PvP's because they are getting killed while chopping wood.

And you can't just tell the non-PvP's to get over it because to them, getting killed while chopping wood is just as "unfun" as it is for a PvP'er to spend time not being able to play the way they want because of a stupid prison or something. It'll be an ongoing battle that eventually will drive one side or the other away from playing the game like it always does. It just depends on who the devs side with on the issue.

I agree, but people who aren't ok with unprovoked PvP should not play a game that states open-PvP as a mechanic. I think that shows the vision the devs have for PvP.

You don't go to a Ford dealership and ask for a Chevy. You look for a Ford dealership.


I do not want to be forced into a fight if I decide that I want to spend the day gathering materials for a house or something. Just because you can go up to someone and attack them, doesn't mean you should. They may not want to PvP that day and you just ruined their game experience.


Translation: I want to kill other people when its easy for me, and want to be completely safe the rest of the time. Just Because they could kill me when I'm AFK logging doesnt mean I want them to. I may want to harvest all day, and by not being killed, it makes the game better for me.

This is what makes a sand box game bub. EVERYONE gets to play how they want, and they live with the consequences of their actions.

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/implied_facepalm.jpg

[Jadzia]

Totally offtopic, but Palo God posted a video in 'The Sweeping Polearm of Justice' thread,
you should watch it guys, I'm getting addicted on it lol its great.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


Exactly. PKing someone who is on treasure hunting in the outlaw area ( and perhaps has already found his-her treasure) is much more interesting and rewarding than PKing someone in a normal area who has a matchbox and 2 logs on him.
fortunately for you guys i wouldn't kill you if all you had was a match book and 2 logs... i would rather go for the strong guys with the ultimate swords and shields that can sell for millions
If every PKer would think the same way as you do, we wouldn't have to be worried about mindless ganking and meaningless random PKs.I was never able to understand why is it fun to kill someone who is way lower level or not armed. Where is the challenge in that ?

Newbies carry loot, too. Sometimes a whole lot of it. And with a skill system, you can't always tell who is a newbie and who isn't. People bait PK's in Darkfall quite often by pretending to look like a newbie.

[sisler86]

Jcatano

You make a really good point. If there were safe zones then you shouldn't be able to trade/barter the items found in there once those items are taken out.

Necoo

The thing with this game though is a weapon is all you really have to go by in determining if a player is worth PK or not. (that and them being skinny, yet still moving very slow) They said that armor will be more of a cosmetic thing in this game so really all you have to look at is their speed and their weapon, but if they are wielding an axe and chopping wood then you won't even have that to go by. Only what lvl they are.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:


Newbies carry loot, too. Sometimes a whole lot of it. And with a skill system, you can't always tell who is a newbie and who isn't. People bait PK's in Darkfall quite often by pretending to look like a newbie.

Probably you are right in a sandbox game, the games I've played with open PvP weren't sandbox ones, so there a newbie was a newbie with worthless loot, and wasn't able to pretend anything.

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:


The thing with this game though is a weapon is all you really have to go by in determining if a player is worth PK or not. (that and them being skinny, yet still moving very slow) They said that armor will be more of a cosmetic thing in this game so really all you have to look at is their speed and their weapon, but if they are wielding an axe and chopping wood then you won't even have that to go by. Only what lvl they are.

if all they were doing was chopping wood i wouldn't even bother since wood can be gathered almost anywhere and if they are slow that means they have a lot of stuff hindering there movements (at least in this game) and that mean a good target... and finally if they have a shinny weapon it most likely wouldn't be a good idea to openly attack them... perhaps an ambush would be in order... and if i see a guy killing a legendary creature i would hide and watch the battle... afterwords i would take them out wile they are already in a weakened state ensuring a fair amount of good items to chose from... not to mention that legendary creature they took the energy to kill would most likely have good stuff in which case i can have those things as well which would come along with the "spoils of war"

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:


The thing with this game though is a weapon is all you really have to go by in determining if a player is worth PK or not. (that and them being skinny, yet still moving very slow) They said that armor will be more of a cosmetic thing in this game so really all you have to look at is their speed and their weapon, but if they are wielding an axe and chopping wood then you won't even have that to go by. Only what lvl they are.

if all they were doing was chopping wood i wouldn't even bother since wood can be gathered almost anywhere and if they are slow that means they have a lot of stuff hindering there movements (at least in this game) and that mean a good target... and finally if they have a shinny weapon it most likely wouldn't be a good idea to openly attack them... perhaps an ambush would be in order... and if i see a guy killing a legendary creature i would hide and watch the battle... afterwords i would take them out wile they are already in a weakened state ensuring a fair amount of good items to chose from... not to mention that legendary creature they took the energy to kill would most likely have good stuff in which case i can have those things as well which would come along with the "spoils of war"

So basically you are the type of person that likes to reap the benefits of other people's work and effort? :huh:

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:


The thing with this game though is a weapon is all you really have to go by in determining if a player is worth PK or not. (that and them being skinny, yet still moving very slow) They said that armor will be more of a cosmetic thing in this game so really all you have to look at is their speed and their weapon, but if they are wielding an axe and chopping wood then you won't even have that to go by. Only what lvl they are.

if all they were doing was chopping wood i wouldn't even bother since wood can be gathered almost anywhere and if they are slow that means they have a lot of stuff hindering there movements (at least in this game) and that mean a good target... and finally if they have a shinny weapon it most likely wouldn't be a good idea to openly attack them... perhaps an ambush would be in order... and if i see a guy killing a legendary creature i would hide and watch the battle... afterwords i would take them out wile they are already in a weakened state ensuring a fair amount of good items to chose from... not to mention that legendary creature they took the energy to kill would most likely have good stuff in which case i can have those things as well which would come along with the "spoils of war"

So basically you are the type of person that likes to reap the benefits of other peoples work and effort? :huh:

lets just put it this way, if the chance is given i would certainly indulge

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:


The thing with this game though is a weapon is all you really have to go by in determining if a player is worth PK or not. (that and them being skinny, yet still moving very slow) They said that armor will be more of a cosmetic thing in this game so really all you have to look at is their speed and their weapon, but if they are wielding an axe and chopping wood then you won't even have that to go by. Only what lvl they are.

if all they were doing was chopping wood i wouldn't even bother since wood can be gathered almost anywhere and if they are slow that means they have a lot of stuff hindering there movements (at least in this game) and that mean a good target... and finally if they have a shinny weapon it most likely wouldn't be a good idea to openly attack them... perhaps an ambush would be in order... and if i see a guy killing a legendary creature i would hide and watch the battle... afterwords i would take them out wile they are already in a weakened state ensuring a fair amount of good items to chose from... not to mention that legendary creature they took the energy to kill would most likely have good stuff in which case i can have those things as well which would come along with the "spoils of war"

So basically you are the type of person that likes to reap the benefits of other peoples work and effort? :huh:

lets just put it this way, if the chance is given i would certainly indulge

lol, at least you are an honest scumbag. :P (only joking)

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:


The thing with this game though is a weapon is all you really have to go by in determining if a player is worth PK or not. (that and them being skinny, yet still moving very slow) They said that armor will be more of a cosmetic thing in this game so really all you have to look at is their speed and their weapon, but if they are wielding an axe and chopping wood then you won't even have that to go by. Only what lvl they are.

if all they were doing was chopping wood i wouldn't even bother since wood can be gathered almost anywhere and if they are slow that means they have a lot of stuff hindering there movements (at least in this game) and that mean a good target... and finally if they have a shinny weapon it most likely wouldn't be a good idea to openly attack them... perhaps an ambush would be in order... and if i see a guy killing a legendary creature i would hide and watch the battle... afterwords i would take them out wile they are already in a weakened state ensuring a fair amount of good items to chose from... not to mention that legendary creature they took the energy to kill would most likely have good stuff in which case i can have those things as well which would come along with the "spoils of war"

So basically you are the type of person that likes to reap the benefits of other peoples work and effort? :huh:

lets just put it this way, if the chance is given i would certainly indulge

lol, at least you are an honest scumbag. :P (only joking)
lol indeed so

[PANZERBUNNY]

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:



A sandbox doesn't have to have open-PvP. Pre-NGE SWG was a very good sandbox and it was faction-PvP. If anything, you and Jadzia should be asking for that... Not prison, time-bans, etc.

At first I was asking for that...especially PvP zones, its realistic (outlaw area) and if its presented well the area attracts not only PvPers but potential victims too.

This was one of the first things that I had been asking for as well. Like put the best resources in those designated PvP areas, or neutral zones, but make them so that no one can officially "claim them" you just have to go in there and look for them. It would be a risk and I think it would be fun.

This didn't sit well with a lot of people either and actually started this whole debate.

Exactly. PKing someone who is on treasure hunting in the outlaw area ( and perhaps has already found his-her treasure) is much more interesting and rewarding than PKing someone in a normal area who has a matchbox and 2 logs on him.

Not a big deal if you die with only a matchbook and 2 logs, is it?

[Kitsume]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Not a big deal if you die with only a matchbook and 2 logs, is it?

This comment shows the true reason behind the PKers motives. Its not for acquiring stuff or for defense, but for the thrill of killing a unsuspecting human being. PKers only 'hunt' those they know they can easily kill and get away with little or no chance of retribution.

They are like the snipers who hide safely in an inaccessible area, picking off random people. They do it because they are addicted to the adrenaline rush. They are psychopaths, even in an online game. They want to be their own version of Zaroff from the story "The Most Dangerous Game."

It doesn't matter what the death penalty is in a game, whether it be stiff or non-existant. Death and killing should be taken seriously. If the PKers and Gank squads are not dealt with, then the game will descend to the lowest common denominator, eventually driving out everyone else. Then with no one left the PKers leave too and the game dies.

Pkers may be a small part of the population, but their actions can have a greater effect than their numbers. I hope there are real mechanics for keeping them under control in Xyson. I'm not anti-PvP, but I am anti random murder.

[Jadzia]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


Exactly. PKing someone who is on treasure hunting in the outlaw area ( and perhaps has already found his-her treasure) is much more interesting and rewarding than PKing someone in a normal area who has a matchbox and 2 logs on him.

Not a big deal if you die with only a matchbook and 2 logs, is it?

We have been arguing a lot still you didn't get my problem with PKing, did you :) I have never ever complained about loosing stuffs. As you said who cares about loosing a matchbox ? Not a big deal. And I don't walk out in the forest with expensive stuffs on me. What I was talking about is the freedom of choice. I have no problem with meaningful PvP, but I hate when some random asshole lets his frustration out on me after his boss or teacher made him feel miserable in his real life. I don't pay to play a game where people think I'm there for them as a boxing bag.

[necoo]

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


Exactly. PKing someone who is on treasure hunting in the outlaw area ( and perhaps has already found his-her treasure) is much more interesting and rewarding than PKing someone in a normal area who has a matchbox and 2 logs on him.

Not a big deal if you die with only a matchbook and 2 logs, is it?

We have been arguing a lot still you didn't get my problem with PKing, did you :) I have never ever complained about loosing stuffs. As you said who cares about loosing a matchbox ? Not a big deal. And I don't walk out in the forest with expensive stuffs on me. What I was talking about is the freedom of choice. I have no problem with meaningful PvP, but I hate when some random asshole lets his frustration out on me after his boss or teacher made him feel miserable in his real life. I don't pay to play a game where people think I'm there for them as a boxing bag.

so is your choice the only one that matters huh.... how about the pker is he not allowed to chose to kill some random guy... how about you think of it this way every choice has a consequence for example in your scenario your chose to go to that area where a pker just so happened to be... granted you might not have known that a pker was there but you still chose to go there, that was your decision... and the consequence of that decision was you getting pked by a pissed off pker

[Jadzia]

necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


Exactly. PKing someone who is on treasure hunting in the outlaw area ( and perhaps has already found his-her treasure) is much more interesting and rewarding than PKing someone in a normal area who has a matchbox and 2 logs on him.

Not a big deal if you die with only a matchbook and 2 logs, is it?

We have been arguing a lot still you didn't get my problem with PKing, did you :) I have never ever complained about loosing stuffs. As you said who cares about loosing a matchbox ? Not a big deal. And I don't walk out in the forest with expensive stuffs on me. What I was talking about is the freedom of choice. I have no problem with meaningful PvP, but I hate when some random asshole lets his frustration out on me after his boss or teacher made him feel miserable in his real life. I don't pay to play a game where people think I'm there for them as a boxing bag.

so is your choice the only one that matters huh.... how about the pker is he not allowed to chose to kill some random guy... how about you think of it this way every choice has a consequence for example in your scenario your chose to go to that area where a pker just so happened to be... granted you might not have known that a pker was there but you still chose to go there, that was your decision... and the consequence of that decision was you getting pked by a pissed off pker

Hmm I think what you are talking about is more like fate, not choice.

And we are talking about a game...with different activities, which are supposed to be fun. All of us pay to have fun. What I'm talking about is that if I pay to have fun, I want to be able to choose the way I'm going to have fun...and I want to be able to avoid the ways what are not fun for me. I'm not forcing anyone to chop wood for hours every day, because I understand most of the people wouldn't find it entertaining. All I want is that others wouldn't want to force me into something I don't like.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


Exactly. PKing someone who is on treasure hunting in the outlaw area ( and perhaps has already found his-her treasure) is much more interesting and rewarding than PKing someone in a normal area who has a matchbox and 2 logs on him.

Not a big deal if you die with only a matchbook and 2 logs, is it?

We have been arguing a lot still you didn't get my problem with PKing, did you :) I have never ever complained about loosing stuffs. As you said who cares about loosing a matchbox ? Not a big deal. And I don't walk out in the forest with expensive stuffs on me. What I was talking about is the freedom of choice. I have no problem with meaningful PvP, but I hate when some random asshole lets his frustration out on me after his boss or teacher made him feel miserable in his real life. I don't pay to play a game where people think I'm there for them as a boxing bag.

so is your choice the only one that matters huh.... how about the pker is he not allowed to chose to kill some random guy... how about you think of it this way every choice has a consequence for example in your scenario your chose to go to that area where a pker just so happened to be... granted you might not have known that a pker was there but you still chose to go there, that was your decision... and the consequence of that decision was you getting pked by a pissed off pker

Hmm I think what you are talking about is more like fate, not choice.

And we are talking about a game...with different activities, which are supposed to be fun. All of us pay to have fun. What I'm talking about is that if I pay to have fun, I want to be able to choose the way I'm going to have fun...and I want to be able to avoid the ways what are not fun for me. I'm not forcing anyone to chop wood for hours every day, because I understand most of the people wouldn't find it entertaining. All I want is that others wouldn't want to force me into something I don't like.

Is someone forcing you to play an open-PvP game?

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:



And we are talking about a game...with different activities, which are supposed to be fun. All of us pay to have fun. What I'm talking about is that if I pay to have fun, I want to be able to choose the way I'm going to have fun...and I want to be able to avoid the ways what are not fun for me. I'm not forcing anyone to chop wood for hours every day, because I understand most of the people wouldn't find it entertaining. All I want is that others wouldn't want to force me into something I don't like.

Is someone forcing you to play an open-PvP game?

Lol gosh, don't start it all over again. We have been here before.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:



And we are talking about a game...with different activities, which are supposed to be fun. All of us pay to have fun. What I'm talking about is that if I pay to have fun, I want to be able to choose the way I'm going to have fun...and I want to be able to avoid the ways what are not fun for me. I'm not forcing anyone to chop wood for hours every day, because I understand most of the people wouldn't find it entertaining. All I want is that others wouldn't want to force me into something I don't like.

Is someone forcing you to play an open-PvP game?

Lol gosh, don't start it all over again. We have been here before.

Well, I'm still trying to figure this out. You hate PvP, but you don't mind meaningful PvP, but you find PvP boring/not fun/etc. After all of that... You're choosing to play an open-PvP game and worry about getting PK'd. That's what happens in an open-PvP game. You're going to get "ganked". We will all get ganked... A lot.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:



Well, I'm still trying to figure this out. You hate PvP, but you don't mind meaningful PvP, but you find PvP boring/not fun/etc. After all of that... You're choosing to play an open-PvP game and worry about getting PK'd. That's what happens in an open-PvP game. You're going to get "ganked". We will all get ganked... A lot.

Ok, 1 more time, just for you ;)

I don't hate PvP. I hate random PK. By random I mean that the PKer doesn't want to get anything from me, his only reason to PK to let out his frustration, to make himself feel somewhat big. These are reasons I can't accept, if they are acceptable for you thats ok, but not for me.

I personally find PvP boring. I understand that others like the adrenalin rush, but I have enough adrenalin in my real life, so thanks, I don't want more in my game where I'm supposed to relax. I like to go to outlaws areas when I'm sleepy to wake up, but not to PK, more like to avoid PKing :) If you get what I mean. But thats rare, it happens only when I'm sleepy but still want to stay up.

I've chosen to play a sandbox game, which one I found at the end of January, without forum and only feature list. This feature hasn't mentioned ANYTHING about PKing. Hasn't even mention the opportunity of it, not even it being FFA PvP.

I fell in love in this game though I hardly knew anything about it. I'm a sandbox player, and there are no good sandbox games out there. Probably the only ones are Eve and Wurm, but Wurm doesn't work on my laptop, and Eve...its just not my thing to play a ship.

I can bear with random PK if its rare and not a daily routine. Open PvP doesn't mean that there is no severe penalty for PKing. The developers said that there WILL be severe consequences, and they stated they want Pking to be rare and really badass. That's what I'm looking for, that's why I'm still waiting for this game.

I hope you get it now, if not, I'm here to be asked, just call my name ;)

Ps:
Xsyon wrote:
There should be enough in place for the game to not turn into a gankfest. The intention of Xsyon is to be a fun, open, sandbox game with possibilities for all kinds of players. If the game starts to get thrown off balance by gankers, the balance will shift. Simple as that.

So no...we won't get ganked a lot. Time to realize it.

[Kwinkatopolis]

New here, you lose stuff if you die? :ohmy:

[Jadzia]

Kwinkatopolis wrote:

New here, you lose stuff if you die? :ohmy:

There is a full loot system in the game. The carrying capacity is limited though, but if you get ganked by not one but more PKers you will probably loose everything you had on you.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:



Well, I'm still trying to figure this out. You hate PvP, but you don't mind meaningful PvP, but you find PvP boring/not fun/etc. After all of that... You're choosing to play an open-PvP game and worry about getting PK'd. That's what happens in an open-PvP game. You're going to get "ganked". We will all get ganked... A lot.

Ok, 1 more time, just for you ;)

I don't hate PvP. I hate random PK. By random I mean that the PKer doesn't want to get anything from me, his only reason to PK to let out his frustration, to make himself feel somewhat big. These are reasons I can't accept, if they are acceptable for you thats ok, but not for me.

I personally find PvP boring. I understand that others like the adrenalin rush, but I have enough adrenalin in my real life, so thanks, I don't want more in my game where I'm supposed to relax. I like to go to outlaws areas when I'm sleepy to wake up, but not to PK, more like to avoid PKing :) If you get what I mean. But thats rare, it happens only when I'm sleepy but still want to stay up.

I've chosen to play a sandbox game, which one I found at the end of January, without forum and only feature list. This feature hasn't mentioned ANYTHING about PKing. Hasn't even mention the opportunity of it, not even it being FFA PvP.

I fell in love in this game though I hardly knew anything about it. I'm a sandbox player, and there are no good sandbox games out there. Probably the only ones are Eve and Wurm, but Wurm doesn't work on my laptop, and Eve...its just not my thing to play a ship.

I can bear with random PK if its rare and not a daily routine. Open PvP doesn't mean that there is no severe penalty for PKing. The developers said that there WILL be severe consequences, and they stated they want Pking to be rare and really badass. That's what I'm looking for, that's why I'm still waiting for this game.

I hope you get it now, if not, I'm here to be asked, just call my name ;)

The orange text makes it hard to take you seriously, since it's an overzealous generalization. Ever think that they just wanted your loot? (Meaningful PvP)

You have said you dislike "PvP" at least a few times.

"I don't find PvP realistic or fun or anything like that." - Jadzia

Going back and forth on the subject isn't going to give a very good explanation. You're pressing for a PvE, too, which shows how much you don't like it (which is fine).

You can't have an open-PvP MMO and not expect to be ganked pretty often. The dev said it will be balanced so that good and evil players have fun. That means there will be advantages and disadvantages for both sides. If you're too harsh to the evil players, then they are not going to have fun. Going evil is a penalty in itself, anyway.

What's going to happen if numerous tribes declare war on your tribe? Are you going to be upset if they just "randomly" PK you, even though it's not really random...? When you think about PK'ing in a game that has player-looting, you'll realize that most of it is not random. You're either at war, the PK'er wants your loot, or both.

It's not normally because they want to feel, as you say, "somewhat big".

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:



Well, I'm still trying to figure this out. You hate PvP, but you don't mind meaningful PvP, but you find PvP boring/not fun/etc. After all of that... You're choosing to play an open-PvP game and worry about getting PK'd. That's what happens in an open-PvP game. You're going to get "ganked". We will all get ganked... A lot.

Ok, 1 more time, just for you ;)

I don't hate PvP. I hate random PK. By random I mean that the PKer doesn't want to get anything from me, his only reason to PK to let out his frustration, to make himself feel somewhat big. These are reasons I can't accept, if they are acceptable for you thats ok, but not for me.

I personally find PvP boring. I understand that others like the adrenalin rush, but I have enough adrenalin in my real life, so thanks, I don't want more in my game where I'm supposed to relax. I like to go to outlaws areas when I'm sleepy to wake up, but not to PK, more like to avoid PKing :) If you get what I mean. But thats rare, it happens only when I'm sleepy but still want to stay up.

I've chosen to play a sandbox game, which one I found at the end of January, without forum and only feature list. This feature hasn't mentioned ANYTHING about PKing. Hasn't even mention the opportunity of it, not even it being FFA PvP.

I fell in love in this game though I hardly knew anything about it. I'm a sandbox player, and there are no good sandbox games out there. Probably the only ones are Eve and Wurm, but Wurm doesn't work on my laptop, and Eve...its just not my thing to play a ship.

I can bear with random PK if its rare and not a daily routine. Open PvP doesn't mean that there is no severe penalty for PKing. The developers said that there WILL be severe consequences, and they stated they want Pking to be rare and really badass. That's what I'm looking for, that's why I'm still waiting for this game.

I hope you get it now, if not, I'm here to be asked, just call my name ;)

The orange text makes it hard to take you seriously, since it's an overzealous generalization. Ever think that they just wanted your loot? (Meaningful PvP)

You have said you dislike "PvP" at least a few times.

"I don't find PvP realistic or fun or anything like that." - Jadzia

Going back and forth on the subject isn't going to give a very good explanation. You're pressing for a PvE, too, which shows how much you don't like it (which is fine).


I'm not going back and forth. I've stated many times I find PvP boring and not fun. And in this post I said the same. Not liking something is not the same as hating it. I don't hate PvP as long as it has meaning, I hate random PKing.



You can't have an open-PvP MMO and not expect to be ganked pretty often. The dev said it will be balanced so that good and evil players have fun. That means there will be advantages and disadvantages for both sides. If you're too harsh to the evil players, then they are not going to have fun. Going evil is a penalty in itself, anyway.

What's going to happen if numerous tribes declare war on your tribe? Are you going to be upset if they just "randomly" PK you, even though it's not really random...? When you think about PK'ing in a game that has player-looting, you'll realize that most of it is not random. You're either at war, the PK'er wants your loot, or both.

It's not normally because they want to feel, as you say, "somewhat big".

First, I added to my post during you were writing your reply, sorry about that. That added PS replies to your thoughts about ganking.

I give you an example about random PKing, the one I hate. It happened not in a sandbox game, so I'm not saying it would work the same way in Xsyon.

I was training in a game, fighting 3 mobs at the same time. I was white named, the game assured players with white names that they won't drop ANYTHING if they die. Another player was training nearby, he waited till my Hitpoints went under 50%, and attacked me. I still was fighting the 3 mobs, so I couldn't take care of him :P I died without even hitting back ( why to get red name anyway), I didn't loose anything, he didn't gain anything. ( No reputation gain, no loot, no exp).

Now tell me, what any other reason he might have had than feeling big or letting out frustration ? ( I was kind of new in that game, not a member of any clan, and never seen that guy before, he didn't know me either.)

If a tribe declare war on my tribe, every kill after that has a meaning, so not random at all.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:



Well, I'm still trying to figure this out. You hate PvP, but you don't mind meaningful PvP, but you find PvP boring/not fun/etc. After all of that... You're choosing to play an open-PvP game and worry about getting PK'd. That's what happens in an open-PvP game. You're going to get "ganked". We will all get ganked... A lot.

Ok, 1 more time, just for you ;)

I don't hate PvP. I hate random PK. By random I mean that the PKer doesn't want to get anything from me, his only reason to PK to let out his frustration, to make himself feel somewhat big. These are reasons I can't accept, if they are acceptable for you thats ok, but not for me.

I personally find PvP boring. I understand that others like the adrenalin rush, but I have enough adrenalin in my real life, so thanks, I don't want more in my game where I'm supposed to relax. I like to go to outlaws areas when I'm sleepy to wake up, but not to PK, more like to avoid PKing :) If you get what I mean. But thats rare, it happens only when I'm sleepy but still want to stay up.

I've chosen to play a sandbox game, which one I found at the end of January, without forum and only feature list. This feature hasn't mentioned ANYTHING about PKing. Hasn't even mention the opportunity of it, not even it being FFA PvP.

I fell in love in this game though I hardly knew anything about it. I'm a sandbox player, and there are no good sandbox games out there. Probably the only ones are Eve and Wurm, but Wurm doesn't work on my laptop, and Eve...its just not my thing to play a ship.

I can bear with random PK if its rare and not a daily routine. Open PvP doesn't mean that there is no severe penalty for PKing. The developers said that there WILL be severe consequences, and they stated they want Pking to be rare and really badass. That's what I'm looking for, that's why I'm still waiting for this game.

I hope you get it now, if not, I'm here to be asked, just call my name ;)

The orange text makes it hard to take you seriously, since it's an overzealous generalization. Ever think that they just wanted your loot? (Meaningful PvP)

You have said you dislike "PvP" at least a few times.

"I don't find PvP realistic or fun or anything like that." - Jadzia

Going back and forth on the subject isn't going to give a very good explanation. You're pressing for a PvE, too, which shows how much you don't like it (which is fine).


I'm not going back and forth. I've stated many times I find PvP boring and not fun. And in this post I said the same. Not liking something is not the same as hating it. I don't hate PvP as long as it has meaning, I hate random PKing.



You can't have an open-PvP MMO and not expect to be ganked pretty often. The dev said it will be balanced so that good and evil players have fun. That means there will be advantages and disadvantages for both sides. If you're too harsh to the evil players, then they are not going to have fun. Going evil is a penalty in itself, anyway.

What's going to happen if numerous tribes declare war on your tribe? Are you going to be upset if they just "randomly" PK you, even though it's not really random...? When you think about PK'ing in a game that has player-looting, you'll realize that most of it is not random. You're either at war, the PK'er wants your loot, or both.

It's not normally because they want to feel, as you say, "somewhat big".

First, I added to my post during you were writing your reply, sorry about that. That added PS replies to your thoughts about ganking.

I give you an example about random PKing, the one I hate. It happened not in a sandbox game, so I'm not saying it would work the same way in Xsyon.

I was training in a game, fighting 3 mobs at the same time. I was white named, the game assured players with white names that they won't drop ANYTHING if they die. Another player was training nearby, he waited till my Hitpoints went under 50%, and attacked me. I still was fighting the 3 mobs, so I couldn't take care of him :P I died without even hitting back ( why to get red name anyway), I didn't loose anything, he didn't gain anything. ( No reputation gain, no loot, no exp).

Now tell me, what any other reason he might have had than feeling big or letting out frustration ? ( I was kind of new in that game, not a member of any clan, and never seen that guy before, he didn't know me either.)

If a tribe declare war on my tribe, every kill after that has a meaning, so not random at all.

I read your addition to the last post. It means nothing, since we have no idea what his idea of a "gankfest" is.

I have no problem with the example you gave. It was part of the game. If it wasn't, he would not have been able to attack you. Did he gain XP? PvP points? Ladder stat? Did he just not like you? Who knows. It doesn't apply to Xsyon, anyway, because you will drop your loot. That alone has meaning.

[stanleyxd]

Lysette 2.0 if ya no what i mean

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:



I read your addition to the last post. It means nothing, since we have no idea what his idea of a "gankfest" is.

I have no problem with the example you gave. It was part of the game. If it wasn't, he would not have been able to attack you. Did he gain XP? PvP points? Ladder stat? Did he just not like you? Who knows. It doesn't apply to Xsyon, anyway, because you will drop your loot. That alone has meaning.

I think both of us knows what is gankfest. Arguing about words is really pointless.

And lol I know you have no problem with that example, why would you, you are a PKer yourself ? As I said he gained NOTHING...no XP, no PvP points, no stats, nothing. He didn't like me for what reason ? Never seen him, never talked to him, I didn't bother him in his training, there were a lot of mobs around us. It was a totally stupid, pointless kill, with no challenge and no skill.
A kill I would feel ashamed if it was done by me.

[Jadzia]

stanleyxd wrote:

Lysette 2.0 if ya no what i mean

No idea, lol.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:



I read your addition to the last post. It means nothing, since we have no idea what his idea of a "gankfest" is.

I have no problem with the example you gave. It was part of the game. If it wasn't, he would not have been able to attack you. Did he gain XP? PvP points? Ladder stat? Did he just not like you? Who knows. It doesn't apply to Xsyon, anyway, because you will drop your loot. That alone has meaning.

I think both of us knows what is gankfest. Arguing about words is really pointless.

And lol I know you have no problem with that example, why would you, you are a PKer yourself ? As I said he gained NOTHING...no XP, no PvP points, no stats, nothing. He didn't like me for what reason ? Never seen him, never talked to him, I didn't bother him in his training, there were a lot of mobs around us. It was a totally stupid, pointless kill, with no challenge and no skill.
A kill I would feel ashamed if it was done by me.

Yet, you still chose to play that game... And incorrect, I have no idea what his exact definition of a gankfest is. I can't read his mind, nor have I seen him post a definition.

And yes... Lysette 2.0 and Caella 2.0 (SWG Pre-Launch).

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:



Yet, you still chose to play that game...

I was giving you an example about random PKing. I wasn't complaining about that game. And yes, I've chosen that, I've been attacked once in 3 months...thats a bearable amount of random PK lol.

[JCatano]

Random PK or Tribe War... The end is still the same on your side.

You're dead. You get looted. There is no difference except:

The person you're at war with gets no penalty. The "random PK'er" gets an alignment hit (penalty), and after 5, goes red (penalty), which paints a big target on his/her back (penalty).

I don't think you should really have a problem with the mechanics.

[JCatano]

Jadzia -

Did you just log into Lysette's Darkfall account?!

[19:01:50] (Grace Rosalba): killing people mining ore is a favourit pastime of PK's

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Random PK or Tribe War... The end is still the same on your side.

You're dead. You get looted. There is no difference except:

The person you're at war with gets no penalty. The "random PK'er" gets an alignment hit (penalty), and after 5, goes red (penalty), which paints a big target on his/her back (penalty).

I don't think you should really have a problem with the mechanics.

You are simply not able to see this from my point of view. I don't care about looting. Gear can be crafted again, loosing 15 logs or ore isn't shocking really. What I hate is when I get the feeling that I'm playing with a bunch of assholes, who run around shouting 'pwned u noob !!'. That is what I want to avoid. Get it now ? And FFA PVP attracts exactly these type of players.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

Did you just log into Lysette's Darkfall account?!

[19:01:50] (Grace Rosalba): killing people mining ore is a favourit pastime of PK's

Is Lysette that cute blond girl from your clan ?

( No idea what you're talking about, lol :laugh: )

[necoo]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Random PK or Tribe War... The end is still the same on your side.

You're dead. You get looted. There is no difference except:

The person you're at war with gets no penalty. The "random PK'er" gets an alignment hit (penalty), and after 5, goes red (penalty), which paints a big target on his/her back (penalty).

I don't think you should really have a problem with the mechanics.

You are simply not able to see this from my point of view. I don't care about looting. Gear can be crafted again, loosing 15 logs or ore isn't shocking really. What I hate is when I get the feeling that I'm playing with a bunch of assholes, who run around shouting 'pwned u noob !!'. That is what I want to avoid. Get it now ? And FFA PVP attracts exactly these type of players.

all you have to do is avoid people you don't trust... how hard is that.... if you see someone coming run and hide like a little pansy and you will be perfectly fine

[Jadzia]

necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Random PK or Tribe War... The end is still the same on your side.

You're dead. You get looted. There is no difference except:

The person you're at war with gets no penalty. The "random PK'er" gets an alignment hit (penalty), and after 5, goes red (penalty), which paints a big target on his/her back (penalty).

I don't think you should really have a problem with the mechanics.

You are simply not able to see this from my point of view. I don't care about looting. Gear can be crafted again, loosing 15 logs or ore isn't shocking really. What I hate is when I get the feeling that I'm playing with a bunch of assholes, who run around shouting 'pwned u noob !!'. That is what I want to avoid. Get it now ? And FFA PVP attracts exactly these type of players.

all you have to do is avoid people you don't trust... how hard is that.... if you see someone coming run and hide like a little pansy and you will be perfectly fine

Hopefully its not hard. I think world of Xsyon will be big enough, without teleport option, so hopefully PKers will have to walk a LOT to find other tribes :laugh: But what is pansy ?

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Random PK or Tribe War... The end is still the same on your side.

You're dead. You get looted. There is no difference except:

The person you're at war with gets no penalty. The "random PK'er" gets an alignment hit (penalty), and after 5, goes red (penalty), which paints a big target on his/her back (penalty).

I don't think you should really have a problem with the mechanics.

You are simply not able to see this from my point of view. I don't care about looting. Gear can be crafted again, loosing 15 logs or ore isn't shocking really. What I hate is when I get the feeling that I'm playing with a bunch of assholes, who run around shouting 'pwned u noob !!'. That is what I want to avoid. Get it now ? And FFA PVP attracts exactly these type of players.

Those same people are the ones killing your mobs in a game without open-PvP... They are also the same ones who will say "pwned you noob!" in a tribe war (the type of PvP you say you don't have a problem with).

I've played DF since it's initial release and don't often see someone taunting in chat after they've killed me. And when it happens, just go along and troll them for more, then screenshot it for the forums. Turn it into some fun.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


You are simply not able to see this from my point of view. I don't care about looting. Gear can be crafted again, loosing 15 logs or ore isn't shocking really. What I hate is when I get the feeling that I'm playing with a bunch of assholes, who run around shouting 'pwned u noob !!'. That is what I want to avoid. Get it now ? And FFA PVP attracts exactly these type of players.

Those same people are the ones killing your mobs in a game without open-PvP... They are also the same ones who will say "pwned you noob!" in a tribe war (the type of PvP you say you don't have a problem with).

I've played DF since it's initial release and don't often see someone taunting in chat after they've killed me. And when it happens, just go along and troll them for more, then screenshot it for the forums. Turn it into some fun.

I've never met that mentality in games without open PvP. There are stupid people everywhere, but open PvP games is like heaven for them. And I'm not looking for that kind of fun you've mentioned...I don't post on forums when the game is up and running. Lol even Darkfall players say that their community sucks...noone denies that games what allow ganking have the worst community. But anyway, I'm off to bed, tty tomorrow.

[sisler86]

JCatano

I feel like you and a lot of the other PvP's are being a bit........hypocritical here and let me explain.

First, this is a sandbox game, that we can all agree on. A sandbox game is a game where the players shape the world and they play how they want to play. It should (and does) appeal to ALL play styles. That being said, you and some others on here have been telling people like us (that do not like to PvP a lot) that we should not play this game because it offers open PvP, yet when we talk about implementing consequences and restrictions for PK you retaliate by saying that this is a sandbox game so you should be able to play how you want. Well, we do not want to PvP all the time.

Let me ask you something. This game has a huge crafting system that allows you to create weapons, armor, structures, etc out of the materials that you have gathered, but should you be FORCED to take part in crafting if you do not want to? No. So in the same respect, this game does have an open PvP system, but players should not be FORCED into a fight if they are obviously doing something else and not taking part in PvP. In other words, random PK, or "ganking." Just because we have the option to fight anyone we choose in the game, does not mean that we have to play that way. Nor does it mean that people who do not want to play that way should be FORCED to defend themselves if they are minding their own business.

Now, with that I will say that there is a clear difference between minding one's own business, gathering materials around their camp and wandering too close to an enemy tribe.

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano

I feel like you and a lot of the other PvP's are being a bit........hypocritical here and let me explain.

First, this is a sandbox game, that we can all agree on. A sandbox game is a game where the players shape the world and they play how they want to play. It should (and does) appeal to ALL play styles. That being said, you and some others on here have been telling people like us (that do not like to PvP a lot) that we should not play this game because it offers open PvP, yet when we talk about implementing consequences and restrictions for PK you retaliate by saying that this is a sandbox game so you should be able to play how you want. Well, we do not want to PvP all the time.

Let me ask you something. This game has a huge crafting system that allows you to create weapons, armor, structures, etc out of the materials that you have gathered, but should you be FORCED to take part in crafting if you do not want to? No. So in the same respect, this game does have an open PvP system, but players should not be FORCED into a fight if they are obviously doing something else and not taking part in PvP. In other words, random PK, or "ganking." Just because we have the option to fight anyone we choose in the game, does not mean that we have to play that way. Nor does it mean that people who do not want to play that way should be FORCED to defend themselves if they are minding their own business.

Now, with that I will say that there is a clear difference between minding one's own business, gathering materials around their camp and wandering too close to an enemy tribe.

That's all there is to it. If Mr. Xsyon wants to force us to craft, he will. Then, people would make their decision about playing or not.

But... We know he won't. Trying to compare the two is a major stretch.

At this point, PvP is not going to be a choice. You're going to find it, or it's going to find you. If the world is big enough, it won't find you as often. If it does find you... Have fun with it, since you already know that open-PvP is a mechanic:

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

Do you like banging your head against a wall? Of course not. I'm going to assume you don't bang your head against a wall for that reason.

As I said before, I didn't go to the LoTRo forums and scream for PvP. I simply didn't play it.

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano

I feel like you and a lot of the other PvP's are being a bit........hypocritical here and let me explain.

First, this is a sandbox game, that we can all agree on. A sandbox game is a game where the players shape the world and they play how they want to play. It should (and does) appeal to ALL play styles. That being said, you and some others on here have been telling people like us (that do not like to PvP a lot) that we should not play this game because it offers open PvP, yet when we talk about implementing consequences and restrictions for PK you retaliate by saying that this is a sandbox game so you should be able to play how you want. Well, we do not want to PvP all the time.

Let me ask you something. This game has a huge crafting system that allows you to create weapons, armor, structures, etc out of the materials that you have gathered, but should you be FORCED to take part in crafting if you do not want to? No. So in the same respect, this game does have an open PvP system, but players should not be FORCED into a fight if they are obviously doing something else and not taking part in PvP. In other words, random PK, or "ganking." Just because we have the option to fight anyone we choose in the game, does not mean that we have to play that way. Nor does it mean that people who do not want to play that way should be FORCED to defend themselves if they are minding their own business.

Now, with that I will say that there is a clear difference between minding one's own business, gathering materials around their camp and wandering too close to an enemy tribe.

That's all there is to it. If Mr. Xsyon wants to force us to craft, he will. Then, people would make their decision about playing or not.

But... We know he won't. Trying to compare the two is a major stretch.

At this point, PvP is not going to be a choice. You're going to find it, or it's going to find you. If the world is big enough, it won't find you as often. If it does find you... Have fun with it, since you already know that open-PvP is a mechanic:

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

Do you like banging your head against a wall? Of course not. I'm going to assume you don't bang your head against a wall for that reason.

As I said before, I didn't go to the LoTRo forums and scream for PvP. I simply didn't play it.

Your response to my last post proves the very hypocrisy I am speaking of, but that aside, I'll leave you tonight with this:

LOTRO does have PvP, it just isn't open and I think they implemented it very well given the plot of the game. LOTRO also is not a sandbox rpg, this is.

Sandbox = people play how they want to play (that is your own argument) Not everyone wants to PvP all the time, and shouldn't be subject to it unwillingly if a sandbox does indeed incorporate all play styles.

We are not here demanding that PvP be taken out of this game, or even open PvP be removed. The devs have repeatedly said that PvP will be a lesser part of this game and that if it becomes like people are making that the focus then they will make changes to stop that. We are not worried about that. Our concern is for others like us that may be driven away from this wonderful game by people who are trying to do the very thing that the devs are trying to prevent.

As I have said before, this is a sandbox, not an arena, just don't make it one. That is all we are asking. We are not the one's trying to change the game. It's all those DF players who came here thinking that this is going to be just like that. Both may have open PvP, but they are two completely different games. Like, apples and oranges. Both are fruit, but that's about it.

[sisler86]

EDIT: Somehow this posted twice.

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano

I feel like you and a lot of the other PvP's are being a bit........hypocritical here and let me explain.

First, this is a sandbox game, that we can all agree on. A sandbox game is a game where the players shape the world and they play how they want to play. It should (and does) appeal to ALL play styles. That being said, you and some others on here have been telling people like us (that do not like to PvP a lot) that we should not play this game because it offers open PvP, yet when we talk about implementing consequences and restrictions for PK you retaliate by saying that this is a sandbox game so you should be able to play how you want. Well, we do not want to PvP all the time.

Let me ask you something. This game has a huge crafting system that allows you to create weapons, armor, structures, etc out of the materials that you have gathered, but should you be FORCED to take part in crafting if you do not want to? No. So in the same respect, this game does have an open PvP system, but players should not be FORCED into a fight if they are obviously doing something else and not taking part in PvP. In other words, random PK, or "ganking." Just because we have the option to fight anyone we choose in the game, does not mean that we have to play that way. Nor does it mean that people who do not want to play that way should be FORCED to defend themselves if they are minding their own business.

Now, with that I will say that there is a clear difference between minding one's own business, gathering materials around their camp and wandering too close to an enemy tribe.

That's all there is to it. If Mr. Xsyon wants to force us to craft, he will. Then, people would make their decision about playing or not.

But... We know he won't. Trying to compare the two is a major stretch.

At this point, PvP is not going to be a choice. You're going to find it, or it's going to find you. If the world is big enough, it won't find you as often. If it does find you... Have fun with it, since you already know that open-PvP is a mechanic:

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

Do you like banging your head against a wall? Of course not. I'm going to assume you don't bang your head against a wall for that reason.

As I said before, I didn't go to the LoTRo forums and scream for PvP. I simply didn't play it.

Your response to my last post proves the very hypocrisy I am speaking of, but that aside, I'll leave you tonight with this:

LOTRO does have PvP, it just isn't open and I think they implemented it very well given the plot of the game. LOTRO also is not a sandbox rpg, this is.

Sandbox = people play how they want to play (that is your own argument) Not everyone wants to PvP all the time, and shouldn't be subject to it unwillingly if a sandbox does indeed incorporate all play styles.

We are not here demanding that PvP be taken out of this game, or even open PvP be removed. The devs have repeatedly said that PvP will be a lesser part of this game and that if it becomes like people are making that the focus then they will make changes to stop that. We are not worried about that. Our concern is for others like us that may be driven away from this wonderful game by people who are trying to do the very thing that the devs are trying to prevent.

As I have said before, this is a sandbox, not an arena, just don't make it one. That is all we are asking. We are not the one's trying to change the game. It's all those DF players who came here thinking that this is going to be just like that. Both may have open PvP, but they are two completely different games. Like, apples and oranges. Both are fruit, but that's about it.

I'm not using the "sandbox" argument. You might have me mixed up with PANZER.

Fact: Xsyon has open-PvP. How can I ask him to change the game to open-pvp when it's already in? If anything, Jadzia (and you to a lesser degree) is asking the dev to change the game by making PvP zones and/or PvP flags.

Fact: You are basically asking others to let you play your way, while saying they cannot play their way.

You keep telling me I'm hypocritical? Read ^that^ again.

You know open-PvP is here. You are going to have to embrace it, unless the dev takes it out for the few vocal people here.

Just because someone PK's you doesn't mean they set out to ruin your day... They are using a game mechanic, will take an alignment hit, then go red if they reach 5. Consequence. Plus, it seems he's hinted at another type of penalty.

[necoo]

ok im getting a bit sick of this... the same argument over and over and over again... someone... just... think of something new for once

[JCatano]

necoo wrote:

ok im getting a bit sick of this... the same argument over and over and over again... someone... just... think of something new for once

No you aren't. You took the time to open it. You love it.

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano

I feel like you and a lot of the other PvP's are being a bit........hypocritical here and let me explain.

First, this is a sandbox game, that we can all agree on. A sandbox game is a game where the players shape the world and they play how they want to play. It should (and does) appeal to ALL play styles. That being said, you and some others on here have been telling people like us (that do not like to PvP a lot) that we should not play this game because it offers open PvP, yet when we talk about implementing consequences and restrictions for PK you retaliate by saying that this is a sandbox game so you should be able to play how you want. Well, we do not want to PvP all the time.

Let me ask you something. This game has a huge crafting system that allows you to create weapons, armor, structures, etc out of the materials that you have gathered, but should you be FORCED to take part in crafting if you do not want to? No. So in the same respect, this game does have an open PvP system, but players should not be FORCED into a fight if they are obviously doing something else and not taking part in PvP. In other words, random PK, or "ganking." Just because we have the option to fight anyone we choose in the game, does not mean that we have to play that way. Nor does it mean that people who do not want to play that way should be FORCED to defend themselves if they are minding their own business.

Now, with that I will say that there is a clear difference between minding one's own business, gathering materials around their camp and wandering too close to an enemy tribe.

That's all there is to it. If Mr. Xsyon wants to force us to craft, he will. Then, people would make their decision about playing or not.

But... We know he won't. Trying to compare the two is a major stretch.

At this point, PvP is not going to be a choice. You're going to find it, or it's going to find you. If the world is big enough, it won't find you as often. If it does find you... Have fun with it, since you already know that open-PvP is a mechanic:

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

Do you like banging your head against a wall? Of course not. I'm going to assume you don't bang your head against a wall for that reason.

As I said before, I didn't go to the LoTRo forums and scream for PvP. I simply didn't play it.

Your response to my last post proves the very hypocrisy I am speaking of, but that aside, I'll leave you tonight with this:

LOTRO does have PvP, it just isn't open and I think they implemented it very well given the plot of the game. LOTRO also is not a sandbox rpg, this is.

Sandbox = people play how they want to play (that is your own argument) Not everyone wants to PvP all the time, and shouldn't be subject to it unwillingly if a sandbox does indeed incorporate all play styles.

We are not here demanding that PvP be taken out of this game, or even open PvP be removed. The devs have repeatedly said that PvP will be a lesser part of this game and that if it becomes like people are making that the focus then they will make changes to stop that. We are not worried about that. Our concern is for others like us that may be driven away from this wonderful game by people who are trying to do the very thing that the devs are trying to prevent.

As I have said before, this is a sandbox, not an arena, just don't make it one. That is all we are asking. We are not the one's trying to change the game. It's all those DF players who came here thinking that this is going to be just like that. Both may have open PvP, but they are two completely different games. Like, apples and oranges. Both are fruit, but that's about it.

I'm not using the "sandbox" argument. You might have me mixed up with PANZER.

Fact: Xsyon has open-PvP. How can I ask him to change the game to open-pvp when it's already in? If anything, Jadzia (and you to a lesser degree) is asking the dev to change the game by making PvP zones and/or PvP flags.

Fact: You are basically asking others to let you play your way, while saying they cannot play their way.

You keep telling me I'm hypocritical? Read ^that^ again.

You know open-PvP is here. You are going to have to embrace it, unless the dev takes it out for the few vocal people here.

Just because someone PK's you doesn't mean they set out to ruin your day... They are using a game mechanic, will take an alignment hit, then go red if they reach 5. Consequence. Plus, it seems he's hinted at another type of penalty.

Perhaps I was mistaking you for PANZER with the sandbox argument.

On those two colored notes, I think you may have misunderstood me both times. I'll try to reword things a bit.

"just don't make it one. That is all we are asking" - I meant this as more of a compromise since neither party is happy unless the other seems to have to give up something. I just don't think the game should be totally aimed at PvP like some on here (not necessarily you) believe it should or is. This is not a PvP game, it just has open PvP in it.

"We are not the one's trying to change the game" - I did not mean that you were asking for open PvP, obviously that already exists. I just meant that there seem to be some here that are coming into this game thinking that it is going to be a huge PvP warzone and that's all they think about. That is just fine if that is their play style, but they also need to understand that this game is not a PvP focused game, just as (and I'll agree) we non-PvP's need to expect to have to fight once in a while whether we like it or not.

Basically, even though I do not appreciate getting killed randomly when I do not feel like PvP'ing, I do understand that this game does have an open PvP system.

I'm more about keeping the game fair and balanced. I do not want the game to become a giant battlefield, but at the same time, I do not want it to become unplayable for PvP's either. It is a sandbox, but there should be room for everyone.

Now I'm seriously going to bed this time... I have to work in a few hours.

[shadowlz]

Be a lot better if there was commentary.

In the 1st quarter Carebears opened strong with the thread OP and reasonable ideas.

By the 2nd quarter the combatards gained on the carebears, but still trailed by 7 by halftime.

And the 3rd quarter kickoff combatards lost some points with harshwording, but ended up tieing with the carebears who lost points due to their outrageous and increasingly insane PvP systems.

4th quarter is starting strong for the Combatards, useing colorful text, and exposing the carebears redundancy and hypocrisy during this quarter. Not a good start for the carebears bob.


`Well ted what do you think?
`Well bob, it seems like the carebears are at a slight disadvantage due to their temporary loss of their key poster jadiza. The combatards MVP JCatano seems to be dishing out some real punishment bob.
`Yeah he is, he seems to of changed his post style abit in this late game and it is definitely working for him. Well see how he does with his first encounter with jadiza MVP for the carebears in the 4th quarter and see how his post style will work for him ted.
`Now over to jim for the thread highlights, jim?

Well ted, we saw some really comedic trolling by panzer new the end of 3rd quarter around pages 32 and 33, accompanied by some misunderstanding on the carebears side.

Also a great wall of text on page 27, where the carebears bring up reallife. And the combatards backlash. Lots of tongue out faces too. Back to you ted.


In 4th it seems combatards have a good lead, but that can all change once jadiza logs on. Carebears can turn this into a perfectly good lead if they play their cards right.

Certainly can ted, As long as Sisler can keep his defensive stance till carebears offense logs in, they could bring it home.

Ok and thats if for our quarterly report, turn in tomorrow for our update on the situation.

[JCatano]

Well, since it's in... You can't ask people to "play fair". They will play the way they want to play within the mechanics, just as you will do. If someone doesn't like it, they look for another game.

I think it's a bit naive to think that PvP won't be a big part of the game, especially with the mechanics that are involved with it. We all understand it isn't Quake, but it does offer extensive PvP mechanics, and as you can tell by the Tribe Recruitment section... Many are going to take part in PvP and focus heavily on it.

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:

Well, since it's in... You can't ask people to "play fair". They will play the way they want to play within the mechanics, just as you will do. If someone doesn't like it, they look for another game.

I think it's a bit naive to think that PvP won't be a big part of the game, especially with the mechanics that are involved with it. We all understand it isn't Quake, but it does offer extensive PvP mechanics, and as you can tell by the Tribe Recruitment section... Many are going to take part in PvP and focus heavily on it.

It isn't me who is saying PvP will be a small part of the game, it's the devs. Tell them that.

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Well, since it's in... You can't ask people to "play fair". They will play the way they want to play within the mechanics, just as you will do. If someone doesn't like it, they look for another game.

I think it's a bit naive to think that PvP won't be a big part of the game, especially with the mechanics that are involved with it. We all understand it isn't Quake, but it does offer extensive PvP mechanics, and as you can tell by the Tribe Recruitment section... Many are going to take part in PvP and focus heavily on it.

It isn't me who is saying PvP will be a small part of the game, it's the devs. Tell them that.

The players will decide that, unless you think the devs are going to take out PvP because everyone is doing too much of it... :huh:

"If you wish to stay safe best suggestion I can make is stay close to home or go out with an armed escort.

I do not mean to be brash but something like this will not change. Xsyon is making the game how he would like it, at least to a point. FFA PVP is included in the "my game" section. After he is happy with what he has then he will ask for player input on other aspects of the game.

Trying to make this game flagged PVP, PVP zones, or any other form of limited pvp simply won't happen." - Virtus

When that is the basis for PvP, we all need to accept that PvP will happen even when we rather it not. Many enjoy that dynamic value, many have accepted it, some are going to try and accept it, others will ask people to leave them alone each time they get PK'd.

I really think you're worrying too much at this time. We don't know what all of the penalties are, so wait and see what happens with that. But, don't forget that declaring war will obviously bypass those penalties, as it should. None of that means you can't world-build and explore. It just means you'll need more teamwork and awareness.

[Dread Rising]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Well, since it's in... You can't ask people to "play fair". They will play the way they want to play within the mechanics, just as you will do. If someone doesn't like it, they look for another game.

I think it's a bit naive to think that PvP won't be a big part of the game, especially with the mechanics that are involved with it. We all understand it isn't Quake, but it does offer extensive PvP mechanics, and as you can tell by the Tribe Recruitment section... Many are going to take part in PvP and focus heavily on it.

It isn't me who is saying PvP will be a small part of the game, it's the devs. Tell them that.

PVP will be just as big a part of the game as anything else. There will be however much PVP I desire in game as it is a do what you want game(SandBox). If I choose to go to an enemy tribe area and wait for them to come out of there little safe haven and then PK them relentlessly it will be my choice :)

[Zeranor]

If this game doesnt support PK'ing and highly risk vs reward pvp I will simply not play it - and I know im not alone on this.

Ppl who dont enjoy risk vs reward pvp can go play poker with playmoney or wow. There are plenty of those games.

[HamsterofDoom]

I enjoy both play styles, but there is a delicate balance to it all. In a game with meaningful pvp that offers tribal warfare, alignment based pvp, and dueling, I'm not sure how much pking (non-consensual pvp) will happen anyway. That being said... for me it's a dance between risk, reward, and entertainment.

1. Stat loss... yes two of the dirtiest four letter words in the english language. However, I think when properly implemented it can be fair to both sides. Since in games like this it is usually far more lucrative to kill a player than it is to pve(for combat professions). So it should carry it's own penalties. So for the crafter... his potential risk is losing an hour or more worth of "work", the pk should have their own risk...

I will touch on this subject in the entertainment section... but I do want to add this. I always wished there was differing levels of statloss in games where non combat characters had no means of escape or defense. So something like... you have 200 points in combat oriented skills and your victim has 0 it would be a harsh penalty. Where as, if both the attacker and the victim had 200 points... there would be minimal or no stat loss.

2.I do agree it seems like the game is drawing a heavily pvp focused following, at least it seems to have recently. I think the other games that offer FFA pvp are lacking in other areas... and even the most ardent pvp fanatic will agree, that there has to be more to a game than just skill grinds and pvp. Some will not like being pk'd and they will leave..... some will not like penalties for pking and they will leave. In the end, I hope it forms a solid community of people who love the game for what it is. With plenty of people being looted to supply my crafter with business.... and plenty of people TO slaughter to satisfy my blood thirst.

In UO, there was something missing... and that was "Carebear" incentive. That's why when Renaissance was launched Felucca became a virtual ghost town. Why risk going there if the rewards are just as good in the safe area? Furthermore, why craft? When pve loot is as good or better than crafted goods, it's much easier to form a group to go hunting together than it is to convince 3 people to just stand there for hours while you chop wood. Someone else put it well on the forums saying.."I want to be a wolf among sheep... not a wolf among wolves."

In order to keep a high enough population of "carebears" to keep the pk crowd entertained, and so that there are enough "carebears" that their odds of being a victim on an hourly basis are diminished....you really need to strike the balance I think Xsyon is shooting for. It certainly seems that both play styles have a HUGE incentive to play this game, which bodes well for the potential longevity of this game for all play styles.

3.Entertainment...What hooked me on UO (and mmo's in general)during beta and for several years beyond was "the Hunt" and "the Escape".

the Hunt- Stealthing up to an unwitting player, sinking my daggers into his back, mere steps away from his home. Or overhearing someone talking about farming a dungeon with some friends and getting on Icq to tell my guild. Formulating a plan to get the jump on them before they could make it to safety with their treasure.


the Escape- Whether it was narrowly escaping being killed on my Blacksmith by getting a lucky recall cast off....or trying to escape roving bands of anti-pks when I was trying to work off my stat loss... I think I may have actually had more fun escaping death than dealing it. If people who do not want non consensual pvp have some mechanism to potentially escape a would be killer, it makes them much more tolerant of pk's in general. But it's pretty fine line between the WoW Bubble Hearth of the Paladin class.... and making it so that non combat characters have to just stand there and be destroyed.

(I touched on this earlier, but it belongs here too. It's a common argument that you just need to get a protection group together. While this may work when you are working on a tribal project.... you simply cannot expect to get a few other combat oriented players to stand there with their fingers in their noses waiting for something to happen when you are gathering/harvesting for your own personal gain. Thus the differing level of stat loss.)


----At this moment it's all speculation, but one thing is for certain.... the number of replies to this thread... and the passion that people are showing in said replies shows that Xsyon MAY be on track to find the "Holy Grail" of play style balance.

[PANZERBUNNY]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Well, since it's in... You can't ask people to "play fair". They will play the way they want to play within the mechanics, just as you will do. If someone doesn't like it, they look for another game.

I think it's a bit naive to think that PvP won't be a big part of the game, especially with the mechanics that are involved with it. We all understand it isn't Quake, but it does offer extensive PvP mechanics, and as you can tell by the Tribe Recruitment section... Many are going to take part in PvP and focus heavily on it.

It isn't me who is saying PvP will be a small part of the game, it's the devs. Tell them that.

Quote/link or it didn't happen.

They've stated that there will be PLENTY of "other stuff" to do.( From what I've read, they've never stated that "PVP will be small potatoes". Infact, reading the features section tips the scale towards a very PVP oriented game, with consequences for douchery.

P.s PLEASE never call LOTRO PVP, PVP. Its called "Monster play". Its not pvp and no one that actually plays it would remotely defend its right to exist as a PVP option. Its a half baked afterbirth.
IF anyone is saying that PVP in THIS game should be hamstrung and caged off from the rest of the game....they deserve a repeated gank and spank.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Random PK or Tribe War... The end is still the same on your side.

You're dead. You get looted. There is no difference except:

The person you're at war with gets no penalty. The "random PK'er" gets an alignment hit (penalty), and after 5, goes red (penalty), which paints a big target on his/her back (penalty).

I don't think you should really have a problem with the mechanics.

You are simply not able to see this from my point of view. I don't care about looting. Gear can be crafted again, loosing 15 logs or ore isn't shocking really. What I hate is when I get the feeling that I'm playing with a bunch of assholes, who run around shouting 'pwned u noob !!'. That is what I want to avoid. Get it now ? And FFA PVP attracts exactly these type of players.

Lets not even get into what kind of people are attracted by a "training wheel system" and "hand holding" in a game..

No use JCatano. Those two that you have been attempting to mentally spar with are on a "doom and gloom" crusade.

This topic should actually be in the off topic section because MOST of the talk is about OTHER games and what THEY have and how THEY deal with it and how THOSE players gank and how THEY grief....and and and...run on...blah.

whatever.

[jessebfox]

First off I love PVP. It keeps the game interesting for me. Only good pvp games keep me around for any length of time really. But I dislike griefing, there is a difference. Anyhoo I just wanted to chime in to two things:

JCatano: You suggest if people don't want open pvp/griefing/ganking to find another game. If this game turns out to not have open pvp/griefing/ganking will you find another game? You seem to not know what Jooky means by gankfest but have "open pvp" pinned down. From what I read here what they consider "open pvp" is not what a lot of people consider "open pvp".

Also, links were requested.

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/6-general-discussion/196-ffa-pvp?limit=10&start=40#2337

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-features/9052-pvp-vs-pk-and-some-general-impressions?limit=10&start=110#9477

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/7-public-support/3328-question-to-devs-about-stat-loss-on-death-pvp#3774

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/5-announcements/5488-trolls-and-agitators#5488

Take these for what they are, but I believe these are the posts sisler and maybe some others have referenced. I do find it interesting that this thread has become so long that we have to link back to earlier in the thread.

I am of the mindset of Virtus here that it is pointless to argue about a system before we even try it. Maybe the "consequences" will be enough to cause gankers to find another game. Maybe it will be a good balance. Maybe it will make the game too safe. None of us know until we try it, it's only speculation.

[Jadzia]

shadowlz wrote:

Be a lot better if there was commentary.

In the 1st quarter Carebears opened strong with the thread OP and reasonable ideas.

By the 2nd quarter the combatards gained on the carebears, but still trailed by 7 by halftime.

And the 3rd quarter kickoff combatards lost some points with harshwording, but ended up tieing with the carebears who lost points due to their outrageous and increasingly insane PvP systems.

4th quarter is starting strong for the Combatards, useing colorful text, and exposing the carebears redundancy and hypocrisy during this quarter. Not a good start for the carebears bob.


`Well ted what do you think?
`Well bob, it seems like the carebears are at a slight disadvantage due to their temporary loss of their key poster jadiza. The combatards MVP JCatano seems to be dishing out some real punishment bob.
`Yeah he is, he seems to of changed his post style abit in this late game and it is definitely working for him. Well see how he does with his first encounter with jadiza MVP for the carebears in the 4th quarter and see how his post style will work for him ted.
`Now over to jim for the thread highlights, jim?

Well ted, we saw some really comedic trolling by panzer new the end of 3rd quarter around pages 32 and 33, accompanied by some misunderstanding on the carebears side.

Also a great wall of text on page 27, where the carebears bring up reallife. And the combatards backlash. Lots of tongue out faces too. Back to you ted.


In 4th it seems combatards have a good lead, but that can all change once jadiza logs on. Carebears can turn this into a perfectly good lead if they play their cards right.

Certainly can ted, As long as Sisler can keep his defensive stance till carebears offense logs in, they could bring it home.

Ok and thats if for our quarterly report, turn in tomorrow for our update on the situation.

Absolutely loved this, lol :laugh:

[Jadzia]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Well, since it's in... You can't ask people to "play fair". They will play the way they want to play within the mechanics, just as you will do. If someone doesn't like it, they look for another game.

I think it's a bit naive to think that PvP won't be a big part of the game, especially with the mechanics that are involved with it. We all understand it isn't Quake, but it does offer extensive PvP mechanics, and as you can tell by the Tribe Recruitment section... Many are going to take part in PvP and focus heavily on it.

It isn't me who is saying PvP will be a small part of the game, it's the devs. Tell them that.

Quote/link or it didn't happen.




Virtus wrote:


/me hands out chill pills.

sisler86 is correct. While there will be PVP it should not be the main element. PvP will come into play if tribes are fighting over a resource or to defend a resource.

The consequences for becoming evil should deter most from mindless ganking.

Quoted from this very thread, was written 1 week ago, page 12.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Well, since it's in... You can't ask people to "play fair". They will play the way they want to play within the mechanics, just as you will do. If someone doesn't like it, they look for another game.

I think it's a bit naive to think that PvP won't be a big part of the game, especially with the mechanics that are involved with it. We all understand it isn't Quake, but it does offer extensive PvP mechanics, and as you can tell by the Tribe Recruitment section... Many are going to take part in PvP and focus heavily on it.

It isn't me who is saying PvP will be a small part of the game, it's the devs. Tell them that.

The players will decide that, unless you think the devs are going to take out PvP because everyone is doing too much of it... :huh:

"If you wish to stay safe best suggestion I can make is stay close to home or go out with an armed escort.

I do not mean to be brash but something like this will not change. Xsyon is making the game how he would like it, at least to a point. FFA PVP is included in the "my game" section. After he is happy with what he has then he will ask for player input on other aspects of the game.

Trying to make this game flagged PVP, PVP zones, or any other form of limited pvp simply won't happen." - Virtus

When that is the basis for PvP, we all need to accept that PvP will happen even when we rather it not. Many enjoy that dynamic value, many have accepted it, some are going to try and accept it, others will ask people to leave them alone each time they get PK'd.

I really think you're worrying too much at this time. We don't know what all of the penalties are, so wait and see what happens with that. But, don't forget that declaring war will obviously bypass those penalties, as it should. None of that means you can't world-build and explore. It just means you'll need more teamwork and awareness.
Interesting how you quote only a part of a conversation which seems to prove your point. What you quoted was said by the site admin, who stated many times that he isn't a developer, and has only a very limited knowledge about the game's features.

Let's see what happened later in this conversation !

Jadzia wrote:

Virtus wrote:

if you wish to stay safe best suggestion I can make is stay close to home or go out with an armed escort.

I do not mean to be brash but something like this will not change. Xsyon is making the game how he would like it, at least to a point. Full PVP is included in the "my game" section. After he is happy with what he has then he will ask for player input on other aspects of the game.

Trying to make this game flagged PVP, PVP zones, or any other form of limited pvp simply won't happen

I know its up to him, but since he reads the forums, i think player feedbacks are important for him, and might make him to give some second thoughts of this feature. From your posts, Virtus, I figured that you like FFA PvP and i have no problems with that, but allow me to have and to voice my opinion :)

Xsyon wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

i think player feedbacks are important for him, and might make him to give some second thoughts of this feature.

Yes it is! I will pay special attention to the actual player community once the Prelude is launched.

There should be enough in place for the game to not turn into a gankfest. The intention of Xsyon is to be a fun, open, sandbox game with possibilities for all kinds of players. If the game starts to get thrown off balance by gankers, the balance will shift. Simple as that.

See ? Xsyon stepped in, and stated that he will pay attention on player feedback, and he won't allow the game to turn into a playground for gankers, he is even willing to change the game ("the balance will shift") to reach that goal.

JCatano you keep ignoring these informations which doesn't fit into your theory. I wonder why.

[Jadzia]

jessebfox wrote:

First off I love PVP. It keeps the game interesting for me. Only good pvp games keep me around for any length of time really. But I dislike griefing, there is a difference. Anyhoo I just wanted to chime in to two things:

JCatano: You suggest if people don't want open pvp/griefing/ganking to find another game. If this game turns out to not have open pvp/griefing/ganking will you find another game? You seem to not know what Jooky means by gankfest but have "open pvp" pinned down. From what I read here what they consider "open pvp" is not what a lot of people consider "open pvp".

Also, links were requested.

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/6-general-discussion/196-ffa-pvp?limit=10&start=40#2337

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-features/9052-pvp-vs-pk-and-some-general-impressions?limit=10&start=110#9477

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/7-public-support/3328-question-to-devs-about-stat-loss-on-death-pvp#3774

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/5-announcements/5488-trolls-and-agitators#5488

Take these for what they are, but I believe these are the posts sisler and maybe some others have referenced. I do find it interesting that this thread has become so long that we have to link back to earlier in the thread.

I am of the mindset of Virtus here that it is pointless to argue about a system before we even try it. Maybe the "consequences" will be enough to cause gankers to find another game. Maybe it will be a good balance. Maybe it will make the game too safe. None of us know until we try it, it's only speculation.

I'm a bit worried that I may give you a bad reputation by agreeing with you :laugh: Still I have to say I agree with all what you've said, and great links too, hope no one is too lazy to click on them.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Well, since it's in... You can't ask people to "play fair". They will play the way they want to play within the mechanics, just as you will do. If someone doesn't like it, they look for another game.

I think it's a bit naive to think that PvP won't be a big part of the game, especially with the mechanics that are involved with it. We all understand it isn't Quake, but it does offer extensive PvP mechanics, and as you can tell by the Tribe Recruitment section... Many are going to take part in PvP and focus heavily on it.

It isn't me who is saying PvP will be a small part of the game, it's the devs. Tell them that.

The players will decide that, unless you think the devs are going to take out PvP because everyone is doing too much of it... :huh:

"If you wish to stay safe best suggestion I can make is stay close to home or go out with an armed escort.

I do not mean to be brash but something like this will not change. Xsyon is making the game how he would like it, at least to a point. FFA PVP is included in the "my game" section. After he is happy with what he has then he will ask for player input on other aspects of the game.

Trying to make this game flagged PVP, PVP zones, or any other form of limited pvp simply won't happen." - Virtus

When that is the basis for PvP, we all need to accept that PvP will happen even when we rather it not. Many enjoy that dynamic value, many have accepted it, some are going to try and accept it, others will ask people to leave them alone each time they get PK'd.

I really think you're worrying too much at this time. We don't know what all of the penalties are, so wait and see what happens with that. But, don't forget that declaring war will obviously bypass those penalties, as it should. None of that means you can't world-build and explore. It just means you'll need more teamwork and awareness.
Interesting how you quote only a part of a conversation which seems to prove your point. What you quoted was said by the site admin, who stated many times that he isn't a developer, and has only a very limited knowledge about the game's features.

Let's see what happened later in this conversation !

Jadzia wrote:

Virtus wrote:

if you wish to stay safe best suggestion I can make is stay close to home or go out with an armed escort.

I do not mean to be brash but something like this will not change. Xsyon is making the game how he would like it, at least to a point. Full PVP is included in the "my game" section. After he is happy with what he has then he will ask for player input on other aspects of the game.

Trying to make this game flagged PVP, PVP zones, or any other form of limited pvp simply won't happen

I know its up to him, but since he reads the forums, i think player feedbacks are important for him, and might make him to give some second thoughts of this feature. From your posts, Virtus, I figured that you like FFA PvP and i have no problems with that, but allow me to have and to voice my opinion :)

Xsyon wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

i think player feedbacks are important for him, and might make him to give some second thoughts of this feature.

Yes it is! I will pay special attention to the actual player community once the Prelude is launched.

There should be enough in place for the game to not turn into a gankfest. The intention of Xsyon is to be a fun, open, sandbox game with possibilities for all kinds of players. If the game starts to get thrown off balance by gankers, the balance will shift. Simple as that.

See ? Xsyon stepped in, and stated that he will pay attention on player feedback, and he won't allow the game to turn into a playground for gankers, he is even willing to change the game ("the balance will shift") to reach that goal.

JCatano you keep ignoring these informations which doesn't fit into your theory. I wonder why.

What the devs have posted doesn't support ANYTHING that the "carebears" in this thread have been stomping about.
They will balance it and yes, I read the bold text from pages and pages ago, but nowhere does it say that PVP will be "minor". You guys have spun it that way, interpreted it that way OR as english isn't your first language, have mistook what that means.
PVP is an spect of the game. Its like saying crafting will be a minor part of the game.(compared to all the aspects of the game it is. everything is minor. All of them together make a whole.

They will offer a deterent to HOPEFULLY ward off players from running around ganking with glee.
Thing is, the people that want to do it, will do it. They wont give a rats ass about the negatives once they get in the swing of things.

And for the record, every MMO pays attention to players feedback to some degree. This isn't something new for Xsyon. What they wont pay attention to is the lonewolf crafter that whines constantly about getting "ganked" while chopping their wood and how they got an axe in the back of the head while using the "tanning" station in the middle of the city.

I dont see things evolving for PVP until after the prelude due to the protected cities at launch.
After launch we're going to see a new rash of threads about people saying they want their "safe cities back".
You heard it here first folks.

[VowOfSilence]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

You guys have spun it that way, interpreted it that way OR as english isn't your first language, have mistook what that means.
PVP is an spect of the game. Its like saying crafting will be a minor part of the game.(compared to all the aspects of the game it is. everything is minor. All of them together make a whole.

Exactly, compared to all the aspects of the game, crafting will be a minor aspect. So... what was your point again?


What they wont pay attention to is the lonewolf crafter that whines constantly about getting "ganked" while chopping their wood and how they got an axe in the back of the head while using the "tanning" station in the middle of the city.

And what makes you think that they won't pay attention those crafters? Because they are actually right - getting killed while woodchopping or tanning is indeed ganking/griefing. If they just crafted a masterpiece and THEN get killed and looted, then it wouldn't be ganking/griefing. I feel kinda stupid having to explain the difference, and maybe you are indeed just trolling - but it seems there are quite a few people who really don't see the difference -.-

[Jadzia]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:


What the devs have posted doesn't support ANYTHING that the "carebears" in this thread have been stomping about.
They will balance it and yes, I read the bold text from pages and pages ago, but nowhere does it say that PVP will be "minor". You guys have spun it that way, interpreted it that way OR as english isn't your first language, have mistook what that means.
PVP is an spect of the game. Its like saying crafting will be a minor part of the game.(compared to all the aspects of the game it is. everything is minor. All of them together make a whole.


Ok, some quotes from Xsyon to make it more clear for you.



Xsyon wrote:
Ideally, we would have one well balanced world, where most PVP is friendly sparring (not resulting in death) and where evil players really feel like game 'monsters' but with better, unpredictable AI.


Xsyon wrote:

MrDDT wrote:

Vessol wrote:

I'd love an alignment system that made PKs rare and actually badass and the hardest of the hardcore, not well, everybody. Like it was in UO. PKing is boring when everyone and their sister is doing it.

Totally, a good system will make it so there are a few evils, a bit more antis and everyone else in the middle.

Yes, this is the goal and if things don't seem balanced enough at first, we will adjust the system to achieve this goal.

What I said was that PvP won't be the main element. This game won't be a PvP focused one. Why you guys can't accept this fact is beyond me.

[Ciik]

What is so hard to understand that PvP can be a main element to this game while at the same time, not pigeon-holing a conversation about PvP into ganking combat?

There is no indication that this game will cater to rudimentary, overly glorified single-player rpg enthusiasts where their game-play amounts to being seat-belted into a Ferris-wheel, safely protected from the elements all the time.

If this game turns into some type of veiled / falsified attempt to blunt or prevent player-engagement in a supposed “open-world” where aggressive players can’t (tribe-less) combat innocents and aggressive players can’t combat sinful players, then enjoy another empty world of mediocrity.

However, if PvP transcends just combat with consequences, and develops into an acronym for a player-centric ecosystem, combat, building on preferred real-estate, compete for resources, crafting excellence, player-centric economy, etc. of which I hope Xsyon is heading for, at least by all indication with some limited input, then we might have something here.

[sisler86]

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

They will balance it and yes, I read the bold text from pages and pages ago, but nowhere does it say that PVP will be "minor".

You are right, they have not said the word "minor," but a glass half empty is a glass half full. If something isn't major than it is minor. Also, you completely contradicted yourself, when you said that PvP is not minor, but in the very next sentence said that everything is minor.

P.S. English may not be Jadzia's first language, but it is mine and I am VERY fluent in it.

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

They will balance it and yes, I read the bold text from pages and pages ago, but nowhere does it say that PVP will be "minor".

You are right, they have not said the word "minor," but a glass half empty is a glass half full. If something isn't major than it is minor. Also, you completely contradicted yourself, when you said that PvP is not minor, but in the very next sentence said that everything is minor.

P.S. English may not be Jadzia's first language, but it is mine and I am VERY fluent in it.
...it was someone else that said everything was miner.... anyway if they said that they would balance it out then they will balance it out... and balance is only achieved when it is equal to everything else

[jessebfox]

and balance is only achieved when it is equal to everything else

Only if the pivot point is in the center of the scale. If they choose to balance it to make the game heavy on pvp, they balance it another way.

And if they balance it to make pvp so that it is only viable for resource contestation, and put so many restrictions on the 'kill everyone' pvp player that most of them don't want to play, that still will be balanced for what they want.

In the end the devs balance things towards their vision, not mine or yours. Which is why I think this game will be disappointing to many who are expecting the holy grail. But balance does not mean, in any way shape or form, that they will make everything have equal parts in the whole of the game.

How it turns out, until we are in the game, is pure speculation. Why not wait and see? I have a feeling both the hardcore pvpers and the carebears will both be disappointed as it will be somewhere in the middle.

That of course is also speculation...

[Reynolds]

I think the real question is not whether random pking for the sake of pk will happen or not, but rather how often it happens. It's been stated that the penalties for choosing an evil play style will be enough to act as a deterrent so that evil players don't dominate the server.

Until it's revealed how stiff the penalties are, everything else is pure speculation. I expect game mechanics to be severe enough that the average griefer will think twice about choosing that path, while the dedicated pker will still go evil, and live with the consequences.

I suspect the penalties for being evil will have to be nontrivial to achieve this balance. My impressions are a dedicated pker will accept a fairly stiff penalty in exchange for the freedom that being a pk gives. The might moan about it but as long as the penalties are reasonable (Permadeath for evil players would be going too far) they will continue to pk as the rewards outweigh the additional risk they face.

If pvp is the only thing in the game that matters ALL the other features will be rendered meaningless as people who get tired of being griefed every few minutes will simply leave. Without any restrictions (or rather penalties for actions) random pking for the sake of pking will become the dominant pvp scenario.

Each person has their own rates that they will accept griefing after which point they will stop enjoying the game. Yes, I can accept a risk of encountering meaningless pvp that I was looking to avoid for each hour I open myself up to that risk. If the risk becomes a certainty it becomes a frustration and not a fun part of the game.

Random griefing severely affects anyone new to the game looking in for the first time, if they get killed 10 times in their first hour of play without a hope of fighting back, that will give a fairly catastrophic impression of the game to that prospective player.

The "This game is not for you" crowd is a pretty effective barrier when it comes to attracting new people. Ultimately it's the reason I have entirely dismissed considering Darkfall as a game to play.

Hopefully meaningful pvp with the objective of securing resources, resolving disputes and various other reasons will be the majority of pvp, yes there will be a few roving bands of people who pk for the sake of pk, as long as those are few and far between they won't be a disruptive influence of the rest of the server.

Ultimately it's the population in a sandbox game that will determine how "fun" this game is for most people, if it degenerates to the point it's full of assholes and the rest of the people are driven away, it sets a limit as to how large the game can grow as it will cater for only a niche of a niche population.

I have hopes that Xyson can offer something to more people than those interested in pvp for the sake of pvp. Time will tell.

[Ciik]

Reynolds wrote:

I think the real question is not whether random pking for the sake of pk will happen or not, but rather how often it happens. It's been stated that the penalties for choosing an evil play style will be enough to act as a deterrent so that evil players don't dominate the server.

I'd like to think that most aren't looking for a marathon of pvp or an exhausting time of always having to be on guard, but at the same time, for a player that wants to take on an evil role, shouldn't be prevented to the point where there is absolutely no sense of suspense of uncertainty in the world, or is dumbed-down to a level of participating on a tribe vs. tribe level at the invitation of some type of 'declaration' only or rvr.

PvP can’t be undermined in this game, unless the devs are shoveling a load of bumpkin to bait players.

The Four Horsemen loom over the land awaiting their chance to spread destruction and chaos. Devils and angels vie for control of their earthly battlefield.

That suggests that there is good and evil, and there are consequences for both. But it would seem ridiculous to believe that a good-aligned player is continuously penalized for combating repeatedly against the bad-aligned character; to the point where there's no sense in engaging in non-consensual, unplanned, uninvited, non-arena, non-dualing type combat at all.

There is a middle-ground, and it doesn't always have to involve good vs.evil, though.

I happen to think that the EVE pvp rule set has been a very successful one that has enabled the sustainment of one of the most successful sandboxy games with the largest community of the sandboxy titles over recent years.

It doesnt force anything on a player that a player might not want to get involved with, but does offer the opportunity. You can pve as much as you want without fear of someone else interfering with your time.

The opposite is true for Darkfall, which I think is a correlation to their far lower player-base.

[VowOfSilence]

Reynolds wrote:

They might moan about it but as long as the penalties are reasonable (Permadeath for evil players would be going too far) they will continue to pk as the rewards outweigh the additional risk they face.

On a sidenote: No, permadeath wouldn't be going too far. In fact, i think it doesn't really change much.

From Haven & Hearth:
http://i46.tinypic.com/2qs6yk7.jpg
Fail indeed. Permadeath only matters if you actually die. You don't die ganking noobs, so noob gankers don't give a damn.

[JCatano]

Jadzia -

I didn't quote the other part, because absolutely nowhere does it say that PvP will take a backseat to other systems. PANZER is 100% correct about your spin on things.

What's going to stop me and 100 others from declaring war on your tribe and giving you dirtnap after dirtnap? Nothing, unless your tree-chopping tribe pulls an Ewok and kills us with logs. :P

What's going to stop me and 100 others from wandering around and PK'ing you without a wardec, because we want your resources, which is not "mindless ganking" (Xsyon quote)? Nothing, if we don't mind taking the alignment penalty.

So... Maybe the statement you should be making is: "PvP won't be the focus for me."

I like crafting, exploring, etc., but my focus will be PvP. The only way the devs are going to stop that focus is the take PvP out of the game. If that happens, you'll have about 10 people playing. But, I don't think we have to worry about that:

"If you wish to stay safe best suggestion I can make is stay close to home or go out with an armed escort.

I do not mean to be brash but something like this will not change. Xsyon is making the game how he would like it, at least to a point. FFA PVP is included in the "my game" section. After he is happy with what he has then he will ask for player input on other aspects of the game.

Trying to make this game flagged PVP, PVP zones, or any other form of limited pvp simply won't happen." - Virtus

If you wish to challenge a statement with strong conviction from someone who seems to know the dev well, then go ahead.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

I didn't quote the other part, because absolutely nowhere does it say that PvP will take a backseat to other systems. PANZER is 100% correct about your spin on things.

What's going to stop me and 100 others from declaring war on your tribe and giving you dirtnap after dirtnap? Nothing, unless your tree-chopping tribe pulls an Ewok and kills us with logs. :P

What's going to stop me and 100 others from wandering around and PK'ing you without a wardec, because we want your resources, which is not "mindless ganking" (Xsyon quote)? Nothing, if we don't mind taking the alignment penalty.

So... Maybe the statement you should be making is: "PvP won't be the focus for me."


You have closed your mind and your ears to the facts which you don't like. I've tried to get through of your blockade, but I can see its hopeless. I have no problem to leave you in your fantasy world where Xsyon is a PvP focused game...you will have to wake up on the first day when you log in the game.

I can tell you whats going to stop you PKing me or anyone others all the time...its the developer, who stated he wants the PvP to be RARE. I can't do anything else, its bold, capital letters, red color. If you still can't see it I give it up lol.

Here is a thread about server selection. Read the first 2 pages, and you will see that how different is Xsyon's opinion about PvP than Virtus's.

http://xsyon.com/forums/7-public-support/113-server-selection

[Ciik]

Jadzia wrote:


I can tell you whats going to stop you PKing me or anyone others all the time...its the developer, who stated he wants the PvP to be RARE. I can't do anything else, its bold, capital letters, red color. If you still can't see it I give it up lol.

Themepark craftastic game, here we come.

It already exists with a miniscule subscriber base with a game-play setting around a post apocalyptic world and consensual PvP; its called Fallen Earth.

[JCatano]

Still waiting for you to show me where he said:

"PvP is going to be rare".

[VowOfSilence]

Ciik wrote:

Themepark craftastic game, here we come.

It already exists with a miniscule subscriber base with a game-play setting around a post apocalyptic world and consensual PvP; its called Fallen Earth.

Being ridiculous doesn't make you hardcore.


edit:

JCatano wrote:

Still waiting for you to show me where he said:

"PvP is going to be rare".

Well, what makes the difference between PvP and PKs for you?
For me, PvP = focus on combat, PK = focus on killing.
There's usually not much combat happing during a PK.

[Ciik]

VowOfSilence wrote:

Ciik wrote:

Themepark craftastic game, here we come.

It already exists with a miniscule subscriber base with a game-play setting around a post apocalyptic world and consensual PvP; its called Fallen Earth.

Being ridiculous doesn't make you hardcore.

It's not my intention to be hardcore; don't know what that is in reference to. But Being honest makes me a realist.

[Reynolds]

VowOfSilence wrote:

Reynolds wrote:

They might moan about it but as long as the penalties are reasonable (Permadeath for evil players would be going too far) they will continue to pk as the rewards outweigh the additional risk they face.

On a sidenote: No, permadeath wouldn't be going too far. In fact, i think it doesn't really change much.

From Haven & Hearth:
http://i46.tinypic.com/2qs6yk7.jpg
Fail indeed. Permadeath only matters if you actually die. You don't die ganking noobs, so noob gankers don't give a damn.

So if evil people suffered permadeath and non evils suffered small skill decay for death you don't think that would affect the number of Evil people on the server?

[VowOfSilence]

Reynolds wrote:

So if evil people suffered permadeath and non evils suffered small skill decay for death you don't think that would affect the number of Evil people on the server?

Maybe there would be less evil players, but the amount of ganking and PKs won't change much. Fair fights would get even rarer, because nobody wants to lose their character. Instead, evil would start playing it safe and gank even worse, if they're allowed to. They'd mostly attack targets that can't fight back or retaliate. At least that's what happened in H&H, and it kinda makes sense.

[Whitehawk]

I dont understand how people can understand that this game will allow players to attack them, readily admit that it will upset them if that happens "for no reason," and expect not to be upset.

Most of you against pvp/pk'ing are going to have to get a little thicker skin. This game has a lot of great features that will should entertain us all, but as long as pvp CAN happen, it WILL happen. If pvp can happen, ganking/griefing WILL happen. The only thing up for debate will be the frequency that those things happen, and that's up to the community.

I enjoy pvp personally, but i really hope that there's enough other things in game to do that the "carebear" crowd will stick it out too. The goal is for both sides to enjoy themselves, despite opposing ideas of whats fun. Hopefully this game has a strong anti-pk crowd to facilitate that. That's really everyone's best hope.

[gemini]

If pvp is rare I wont make it past my initial investment. Reoccurring payments will be set to none

[HamsterofDoom]

Unless I missed it somewhere.... FFA Full Loot PVP isn't even listed in the Features or About sections. I would think that if that was the developer's main focus and a main selling point of the game it would be listed somewhere other than as an answer in a forum post buried.

For Example...

http://www.us.darkfallonline.com/default.php?pname=Challenge

http://www.mortalonline.com/feature/live-free-world

[JCatano]

HamsterofDoom wrote:

Unless I missed it somewhere.... FFA Full Loot PVP isn't even listed in the Features or About sections. I would think that if that was the developer's main focus and a main selling point of the game it would be listed somewhere other than as an answer in a forum post buried.

For Example...

http://www.us.darkfallonline.com/default.php?pname=Challenge

http://www.mortalonline.com/feature/live-free-world

As "over 9000!" people have said, PvP will not take a backseat. Nobody said it was going to the developer's main focus, but in reality, it's up to the player to decide what he/she will focus on.

Go look at the recruiting section and a lot of posts in general. It's clear that a lot of people want to focus on PvP, but that doesn't mean they won't enjoy the other mechanics that make it seem like a good game.

[Thorbrand]

I think people need to realize the PvP is in the game but not the main focus since the world has to develop running around with no purpose isn't going to allow that to happen.

Look at what Xsyon himself has said on the subject.

[Jadzia]

HamsterofDoom wrote:

Unless I missed it somewhere.... FFA Full Loot PVP isn't even listed in the Features or About sections. I would think that if that was the developer's main focus and a main selling point of the game it would be listed somewhere other than as an answer in a forum post buried.

For Example...

http://www.us.darkfallonline.com/default.php?pname=Challenge

http://www.mortalonline.com/feature/live-free-world

You are so right, I've been trying to explain this for 2 weeks but it seems some of the people can't get it.

[Siko]

JCatano wrote:

I like crafting, exploring, etc., but my focus will be PvP. The only way the devs are going to stop that focus is the take PvP out of the game. If that happens, you'll have about 10 people playing. But, I don't think we have to worry about that:
If that prediction is true, we can probably expect at most 2 people playing with FFA PVP. :p If you look at any game where you can choose between different rulesets, the vast majority of players choose the no pvp, or consensual pvp only option. I agree there's no reason to worry about pvp being removed, though. It wouldn't fit the vision presented for the game.

On a side note, I do hope they manage to make a game where pvp is one focus, not the only focus. Diversity in the playerbase is always a good thing for building a healthy community, and introducing different servers with different rulesets is the best way to ruin diversity. Discouraging random PK activity is a key to keep players mostly interested in non-combat and non-pvp activities playing alongside the pvp crowd. There needs to be enough opportunities to fight other players without severe consequences to keep the pvp crowd happy as well, though.

Creating game mechanics that can determine without a doubt what is murder/criminal activity and what is not, as well as balancing consequences with fun is incredibly tricky, though, and with the exception of EvE, most FFA pvp games fail to cater to anyone but the hardcore pvp'er/PK.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

HamsterofDoom wrote:

Unless I missed it somewhere.... FFA Full Loot PVP isn't even listed in the Features or About sections. I would think that if that was the developer's main focus and a main selling point of the game it would be listed somewhere other than as an answer in a forum post buried.

For Example...

http://www.us.darkfallonline.com/default.php?pname=Challenge

http://www.mortalonline.com/feature/live-free-world

You are so right, I've been trying to explain this for 2 weeks but it seems some of the people can't get it.

Still waiting for you to show me where he said:

"PvP will be rare."

Not PK, but... PvP. (Even though PK doesn't equate to "griefing" to me like it does to you. PK simply = Player Killer, which all PvP'ers do.)

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Still waiting for you to show me where he said:

"PvP is going to be rare".

Read that post again, I'm really tired of quoting things for you again and again,how come everyone can understand but you ?

[Thorbrand]

Noone said PvP will be rare, of course good and neutral tribes won't be killing each other unless they are at WAR and evil tribes are FFA kills!!!

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Still waiting for you to show me where he said:

"PvP is going to be rare".

Read that post again, I'm really tired of quoting things for you again and again,how come everyone can understand but you ?

You've posted about 5 things, and none of them say:

"PvP is going to be rare."

"Mindless ganking"? Sure, he wants to negate that as much as possible.

PvP? Still waiting...

[Reynolds]

Whitehawk wrote:

I dont understand how people can understand that this game will allow players to attack them, readily admit that it will upset them if that happens "for no reason," and expect not to be upset.

Most of you against pvp/pk'ing are going to have to get a little thicker skin. This game has a lot of great features that will should entertain us all, but as long as pvp CAN happen, it WILL happen. If pvp can happen, ganking/griefing WILL happen. The only thing up for debate will be the frequency that those things happen, and that's up to the community.

I enjoy pvp personally, but i really hope that there's enough other things in game to do that the "carebear" crowd will stick it out too. The goal is for both sides to enjoy themselves, despite opposing ideas of whats fun. Hopefully this game has a strong anti-pk crowd to facilitate that. That's really everyone's best hope.

It's not a question of how much there is to do outside pvp, but whether pkers would take up 90% of my time by forcing me to pvp every time I set foot outside the town, at that limit it'd just get frustrating and the game would be "Not Fun". If there was the occasional skirmish while out scavenging thats fine and expected. As long as I'm "Having Fun" a lot more than I'm being harassed overall the game is still fun.

I think the developers CAN have an influence on the numbers of Evil pkers by ratcheting up the penalties they face, reducing their numbers such that the rest of the population isn't continuously harassed by a negative element of the population. Xsyon has stated he doesn't want griefers to dominate the game.

Suggesting you leave it to the community to police, what happens if the griefers start to dominate the game, the rest of the population starts leaving, new players are driven away and finally the pkers get bored of noone to harass? What if the community doesn't stop this series of events occurring? Should the devs stand by watching the community shrivel and shrug their shoulders and not intervene? or should they develop mechanics to stop this potential catastrophe killing their game.

I have little faith in the community alone, left free of consequence, griefing is commonplace. The only solution is for there to be non trivial consequences for choosing the path of a murderer. That way, unprovoked random harassment should be kept to a minimum and the game is more fun for the majority of the server.

[Thorbrand]

I don't see what this is about there is PvP in the game. Might be rare unless you are evil that is about it.

[VowOfSilence]

JCatano wrote:


Still waiting for you to show me where he said:

"PvP will be rare."

Not PK, but... PvP. (Even though PK doesn't equate to "griefing" to me like it does to you. PK simply = Player Killer, which all PvP'ers do.)

What's the difference then? Not saying there isn't any, people just define it in various ways.

[sisler86]

Why do I keep coming back to this thread? This is the stupidest argument I have ever participated in, but for some reason I just can't get enough. :laugh:

Anyway, it seems as though some of us are arguing for the sole sake of the argument. PvP's and non-PvP's alike are both making really good points, but as I have said before (honestly I really don't think there isn't anything that hasn't been said before at this point) no matter which side you are in a debate taken this seriously, one side will always be unhappy. Don't believe me? Try getting a Democrat and a Republican to compromise on abortion.... it's not happening.

I'm formally joining the "this thread is pointless" party. B)

[HamsterofDoom]

I think there is PVP which has subsets... ganking, pking, and consensual pvp.

ganking- Killing of new and/or noncombat players.

pking-Hunting the top of the food chain... other combat oriented players. Without notice or knowing whether or not pvp will happen.

consensual pvp- both combatants have willingly made a decision to fight, with or without notice.

[JCatano]

VowOfSilence wrote:

JCatano wrote:


Still waiting for you to show me where he said:

"PvP will be rare."

Not PK, but... PvP. (Even though PK doesn't equate to "griefing" to me like it does to you. PK simply = Player Killer, which all PvP'ers do.)

What's the difference then? Not saying there isn't any, people just define it in various ways.

I'm using Jadzia's definition of PK. She thinks all "PK'ers" are teens who are angry at the world and only out to ruin her tree-chopping. She is now using PK and PvP as interchangeable phrases with regard to grief-style gameplay.

[JCatano]

HamsterofDoom wrote:

I think there is PVP which has subsets... ganking, pking, and consensual pvp.

ganking- Killing of new and/or noncombat players.

pking-Hunting the top of the food chain... other combat oriented players. Without notice or knowing whether or not pvp will happen.

consensual pvp- both combatants have willingly made a decision to fight, with or without notice.

Which is given once you pay for the game:

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

[sisler86]

Everyone is shooting at stars now.....

[HamsterofDoom]

I sure am! And pk's are agreeing to deal with the consequences.

[necoo]

is it just me or is this thread pointlessly long... i mean if everyone stopped repeating what was already said this thread would be half its size

[JCatano]

necoo wrote:

is it just me or is this thread pointlessly long... i mean if everyone stopped repeating what was already said this thread would be half its size

It would certainly be shorter if you stopped posting those types of responses.

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

is it just me or is this thread pointlessly long... i mean if everyone stopped repeating what was already said this thread would be half its size

you mean only 25 pages instead of 50? :laugh:

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

JCatano wrote:


Still waiting for you to show me where he said:

"PvP will be rare."

Not PK, but... PvP. (Even though PK doesn't equate to "griefing" to me like it does to you. PK simply = Player Killer, which all PvP'ers do.)

What's the difference then? Not saying there isn't any, people just define it in various ways.

I'm using Jadzia's definition of PK. She thinks all "PK'ers" are teens who are angry at the world and only out to ruin her tree-chopping. She is now using PK and PvP as interchangeable phrases with regard to grief-style gameplay.

Gosh. I've never said that. I said RANDOM PKers are people who are frustrated in real life, and they want to let out their frustrations on other players, or want to feel big that way. And I gave you an example about a random, totally meaningless PK...I won't repeat it again.

About the other questions, its really not my fault if you can't read.

[necoo]

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

is it just me or is this thread pointlessly long... i mean if everyone stopped repeating what was already said this thread would be half its size

you mean only 25 pages instead of 50? :laugh:
most likely.... about half way through the thread people stopped saying new things and just repeated what was already said

see like the guy above me with the "what i said" crap

[sisler86]

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

is it just me or is this thread pointlessly long... i mean if everyone stopped repeating what was already said this thread would be half its size

you mean only 25 pages instead of 50? :laugh:
most likely.... about half way through the thread people stopped saying new things and just repeated what was already said

see like the guy above me with the "what i said" crap

I love how this thread is so long that people are demanding links to things that were said on this very thread. :laugh:

[Jadzia]

necoo wrote:

is it just me or is this thread pointlessly long... i mean if everyone stopped repeating what was already said this thread would be half its size

I think you are absolutely right, but you know, JCatano can't understand things for the first read, so he keeps bringing up things again and again :unsure: We all have to be patient...but I'm running out of patiency for sure :side:

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

JCatano wrote:


Still waiting for you to show me where he said:

"PvP will be rare."

Not PK, but... PvP. (Even though PK doesn't equate to "griefing" to me like it does to you. PK simply = Player Killer, which all PvP'ers do.)

What's the difference then? Not saying there isn't any, people just define it in various ways.

I'm using Jadzia's definition of PK. She thinks all "PK'ers" are teens who are angry at the world and only out to ruin her tree-chopping. She is now using PK and PvP as interchangeable phrases with regard to grief-style gameplay.

Gosh. I've never said that. I said RANDOM PKers are people who are frustrated in real life, and they want to let out their frustrations on other players, or want to feel big that way. And I gave you an example about a random, totally meaningless PK...I won't repeat it again.

About the other questions, its really not my fault if you can't read.

So, in other words... He never said PvP was going to be rare, correct? I asked you to show me. I've looked through your "look at the posts" requests. I haven't seen anything, except that he doesn't want mindless ganking.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

JCatano wrote:


Still waiting for you to show me where he said:

"PvP will be rare."

Not PK, but... PvP. (Even though PK doesn't equate to "griefing" to me like it does to you. PK simply = Player Killer, which all PvP'ers do.)

What's the difference then? Not saying there isn't any, people just define it in various ways.

I'm using Jadzia's definition of PK. She thinks all "PK'ers" are teens who are angry at the world and only out to ruin her tree-chopping. She is now using PK and PvP as interchangeable phrases with regard to grief-style gameplay.

Gosh. I've never said that. I said RANDOM PKers are people who are frustrated in real life, and they want to let out their frustrations on other players, or want to feel big that way. And I gave you an example about a random, totally meaningless PK...I won't repeat it again.

About the other questions, its really not my fault if you can't read.

So, in other words... He never said PvP was going to be rare, correct? I asked you to show me. I've looked through your "look at the posts" requests. I haven't seen anything, except that he doesn't want mindless ganking.

Ok. This is really the last time. I have always said I have no problem with meaningful PvP, I have problem with random PKing and ganking. And Xsyon said he wants to keep random PKing RAAAAAAAAAAAAARE !
I'm a very patient person but you really put my patience to the test lol :laugh:

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

I can tell you whats going to stop you PKing me or anyone others all the time...its the developer, who stated he wants the PvP to be RARE.


Jadzia wrote:

Ok. This is really the last time. I have always said I have no problem with meaningful PvP, I have problem with random PKing and ganking. And Xsyon said he wants to keep random PKing RAAAAAAAAAAAAARE !

I'm a very patient person but you really put my patience to the test lol :laugh:

Maybe you just like to switch around terms when it fits your mean. ;)

[stanleyxd]

i will gladly randomly pk you because well i am just that frustrated IRL grrr!

how should we call the folks that play those games only for friendship and crafting? jobless people with no friends? comon now :)

[sisler86]

JCatano wrote:


Jadzia wrote:

I can tell you whats going to stop you PKing me or anyone others all the time...its the developer, who stated he wants the PvP to be RARE.


Jadzia wrote:

Ok. This is really the last time. I have always said I have no problem with meaningful PvP, I have problem with random PKing and ganking. And Xsyon said he wants to keep random PKing RAAAAAAAAAAAAARE !

I'm a very patient person but you really put my patience to the test lol :laugh:

Maybe you just like to switch around terms when it fits your mean. ;)

To be fair, reread all of your posts. You have done it as well.

[JCatano]

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:


Jadzia wrote:

I can tell you whats going to stop you PKing me or anyone others all the time...its the developer, who stated he wants the PvP to be RARE.


Jadzia wrote:

Ok. This is really the last time. I have always said I have no problem with meaningful PvP, I have problem with random PKing and ganking. And Xsyon said he wants to keep random PKing RAAAAAAAAAAAAARE !

I'm a very patient person but you really put my patience to the test lol :laugh:

Maybe you just like to switch around terms when it fits your mean. ;)

To be fair, reread all of your posts. You have done it as well.

Only in relation to her going back and forth. I know what they mean to me (as I posted already), but figured it would be easier to go along with her idea of it. Simpleton tactic.

[Jadzia]

stanleyxd wrote:

i will gladly randomly pk you because well i am just that frustrated IRL grrr!

how should we call the folks that play those games only for friendship and crafting? jobless people with no friends? comon now :)

Hmm do you PK someone when you know you won't get anything out of it ? No loot, no exp, no reputation, absolutely nothing. Whats the reason for the PK then ? ( lets say you have never seen that person before, not in war with his clan, nothing, a totally stranger)

If you are not tired even of the thoughts of it you can read back and you will see what did I mean by random PK :) But do it only if you have a good sense of humor, this thread really needs that :cheer:

[jessebfox]

Dear lord he is trolling you.

He has no desire to see your point of view nor open his mind up to alternatives. He is just using semantics to get you to keep going, you were right this thread is completely pointless. Everything has been said, and none of it matters, not from anyone. Just wait for the game, if it's not what you want so be it. They obviously have a plan, see what it is about complaining one way or another. No one here can concretely say what the game is going to be like yet.

but ffs stop feeding the troll, 50 pages is way too much. This thread should be on the Junk pile.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:


Jadzia wrote:

I can tell you whats going to stop you PKing me or anyone others all the time...its the developer, who stated he wants the PvP to be RARE.


Jadzia wrote:

Ok. This is really the last time. I have always said I have no problem with meaningful PvP, I have problem with random PKing and ganking. And Xsyon said he wants to keep random PKing RAAAAAAAAAAAAARE !

I'm a very patient person but you really put my patience to the test lol :laugh:

Maybe you just like to switch around terms when it fits your mean. ;)

To be fair, reread all of your posts. You have done it as well.

Only in relation to her going back and forth. I know what they mean to me (as I posted already), but figured it would be easier to go along with her idea of it. Simpleton tactic.

I'm not going back and forth. I keep saying the same thing lol what you don't want to understand so you start to pick on words :P Xsyon stated that PvP shouldn't be the main element of the game, and he stated that he wants ganking to be rare. These are the 2 facts what count for me, and clear it up for everyone who is willing to read it.

These are the facts you can't accept, thats why you start endless debates on words.

[Jadzia]

jessebfox wrote:

Dear lord he is trolling you.

He has no desire to see your point of view nor open his mind up to alternatives. He is just using semantics to get you to keep going, you were right this thread is completely pointless. Everything has been said, and none of it matters, not from anyone. Just wait for the game, if it's not what you want so be it. They obviously have a plan, see what it is about complaining one way or another. No one here can concretely say what the game is going to be like yet.

but ffs stop feeding the troll, 50 pages is way too much. This thread should be on the Junk pile.

I came to the same conclusion lol :laugh: No one can be that stupid so he is only trolling :P

[Ciik]

Jadzia wrote:

Gosh. I've never said that. I said RANDOM PKers are people who are frustrated in real life, and they want to let out their frustrations on other players, or want to feel big that way. And I gave you an example about a random, totally meaningless PK...I won't repeat it again.

About the other questions, its really not my fault if you can't read.

Whoa. This kind of gross and unsubstantiated generalization is what prolongs this circular discussion. As much of a generalization as me saying those that don't like to be surprisingly engaged in combat by another player without some type of 'approval switch' or 'harsh consequence' for not being a tethered mob on a leash, are nothing more than children that cry on the play-ground when their 'tagged' to be 'it', placing them in some inferiority category of being a loser; which is why players that don’t like non-consensual pvp look for pve games, they want to always be on the winning side of a game-play fight.

The reality is that in a more PvP environment (like EVE) where there is player interaction against players, the gaming environment become more dynamic, more alive, more engaging. Communities of like minded players flourish and gel more. There are unclear distinctions between safety and danger when you venture into a space that offers more reward of resources, but at the same time, more game-play risk.

Non-consensual PvP keeps the whole community awake. Evil roles should not be penalized and more or less than choosing a good role. There have got to be consequences and rewards for both. Again, consequences and rewards for being both good and evil.

So, non-consensual conflict matters. It is what drives communities to rally to get emotionally and intellectually involved. It’s not about a fight between Hard-Core PKs or PvP enthusiasts or PvE enthusiasts who think PvPers are out to get them…this issue is fundamental for the gaming in general, the longevity of the game…the replayability, immersiveness, unpredictability, suspenseful nature and contributes to the need to come into and belong to a community – not to mention the stimulation and progress in mmorpg gaming that it favors. EVE has done it best, and to me, Darkfall is the most exhausting.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

jessebfox wrote:

Dear lord he is trolling you.

He has no desire to see your point of view nor open his mind up to alternatives. He is just using semantics to get you to keep going, you were right this thread is completely pointless. Everything has been said, and none of it matters, not from anyone. Just wait for the game, if it's not what you want so be it. They obviously have a plan, see what it is about complaining one way or another. No one here can concretely say what the game is going to be like yet.

but ffs stop feeding the troll, 50 pages is way too much. This thread should be on the Junk pile.

I came to the same conclusion lol :laugh: No one can be that stupid so he is only trolling :P

Stupid?

A troll would be someone who asks for a PvE server, then asks for PvP zones/flags, then says they dislike PvP, then says they are "ok" with meaningful PvP, then says they do not like random PK's, then says "PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun" (actual quote), then says the dev stated PvP will be rare (which was incorrect), then says the dev stated PK's will be rare, and finally resorts to name-calling. ;)

All while wanting to play an open-PvP game.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

jessebfox wrote:

Dear lord he is trolling you.

He has no desire to see your point of view nor open his mind up to alternatives. He is just using semantics to get you to keep going, you were right this thread is completely pointless. Everything has been said, and none of it matters, not from anyone. Just wait for the game, if it's not what you want so be it. They obviously have a plan, see what it is about complaining one way or another. No one here can concretely say what the game is going to be like yet.

but ffs stop feeding the troll, 50 pages is way too much. This thread should be on the Junk pile.

I came to the same conclusion lol :laugh: No one can be that stupid so he is only trolling :P

Stupid?

A troll would be someone who asks for a PvE server, then asks for PvP zones/flags, then says they dislike PvP, then says they are "ok" with meaningful PvP, then says they do not like random PK's, then says "PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun" (actual quote), then says the dev stated PvP will be rare (which was incorrect), then says the dev stated PK's will be rare, and finally resorts to name-calling. ;)

All while wanting to play an open-PvP game.

I didn't ask for a PVE server first, it was Xsyon's own idea :) I'd like PvP zones, whats wrong with suggestions about a game ? All the rest I said means the same you just don't want to understand :)

And I didn't say you were stupid....I said the opposite :p Wish you had some Vulcan blood in you, your logic needs some improvement :P

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

jessebfox wrote:

Dear lord he is trolling you.

He has no desire to see your point of view nor open his mind up to alternatives. He is just using semantics to get you to keep going, you were right this thread is completely pointless. Everything has been said, and none of it matters, not from anyone. Just wait for the game, if it's not what you want so be it. They obviously have a plan, see what it is about complaining one way or another. No one here can concretely say what the game is going to be like yet.

but ffs stop feeding the troll, 50 pages is way too much. This thread should be on the Junk pile.

I came to the same conclusion lol :laugh: No one can be that stupid so he is only trolling :P

Stupid?

A troll would be someone who asks for a PvE server, then asks for PvP zones/flags, then says they dislike PvP, then says they are "ok" with meaningful PvP, then says they do not like random PK's, then says "PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun" (actual quote), then says the dev stated PvP will be rare (which was incorrect), then says the dev stated PK's will be rare, and finally resorts to name-calling. ;)

All while wanting to play an open-PvP game.

I didn't ask for a PVE server first, it was Xsyon's own idea :) I'd like PvP zones, whats wrong with suggestions about a game ? All the rest I said means the same you just don't want to understand :)

And I didn't say you were stupid....I said the opposite :p Wish you had some Vulcan blood in you, your logic needs some improvement :P

That is the most ironic thing you've said (so far).