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Jeopardy
03-21-2010, 05:08 PM
I have read quite a bit of the conversation on the potential PvP and PK that will be available. I have paid for the game as well, but am a bit concerned.

My experience's in ATITD and WURM online are much more related to what this game is, rather than these other MMO's (which I have played as well) that players are discussing.

ATITD had no PK, but it had plenty of griefing. WURM has both issues.

To me, PvP and PK is all about loss. Loss of what is the question. It's based on a perspective of what is important to each individual player. If I spend 4 hours mining, and I get PK'd and lose everything I worked on, then nope, I don't want to play. It's NOT fun.

If I build a camp (or a house or whatever) and someone comes over and builds garbage cheap buildings all around it so I can no longer even enjoy being there...then nope, I don't want to play.

It's about value, it's about what we individually value. Each of us finds different things important. It has GOT to be balanced or this game will simply turn into a different type of gank or grief-fest. Some folks like those kind of games, but many of us, do not.

ATITD has a law system, that allows players to define the laws...the issue with it is, it's slow. Too slow to be useful or effective. I really appreciate the law system they have and would love to have something like that here, but it would have to be a much faster process for it to do the job properly.

In a game like this (town building etc), any form of PK that allows loss of items will be rough. Nobody wishes to spend hours on anything and have it lost in a moment.

No place in the real world would a murderer be allowed to rampage for days on end. It shouldn't be like that in a game either, all that leads to is corpse camping and alot of angry players.

PvP is player vs player and is generally something that is ASKED. PK on the other hand is player killing and it's usually more of a free for all environment...and not something that is chosen. It just happens and has a more out of control feel.

Personally, I can deal with PvP. I can even get involved in it. PK on the other hand just has a bad reputation (and to most of us, it's an earned reputation) and gives me a really bad feeling if any games allows it.

I have seen many systems use locks (in this game we could build them) and lock down each piece of gear and box that we don't wish to lose if we are killed (that we are carrying). But nothing like that would solve repeat offenders from just pounding someone over and over when they try to collect supplies, or build something.

I have a suggestion that might help. Each time a player kills another one (I am hoping it won't be PK, but rather PvP...but either way this might work)...

1. He receives a chain link attached to his ankle. Each link he wears slows his movement speed down. He can have a maximum of 10 before he can no longer walk at more than crawl speed. He can have a blacksmith remove the links, one per RL hour. However, the blacksmith would earn some form of bad reputation for each link removed and thus, also earn links after so many are removed for others. Once the player is maxed out (10 links) that player can also be captured easily and placed in jail.

or...

2. Players are limited as to how many they can kill in one day. The cost of being captured should be high. So, for example...they killed someone and stole a ton of ore. That player would be required to collect 1.5x the amount of ore stolen before he would be released. So maybe during his jail time, his spirit can exit the jail (not interact with anyone) but can collect the retribution payment. The goal of course, would be to not get caught.

***Just ideas, and I don't have a clue if any would work. But PK or PvP needs cost. Cost EQUAL (or higher) to the losses they give to other players. 4 hours of real life time and work, should cost the pk'r that as well if they are caught. THAT would be fair.

There are way too many games that just let the gank fests ruin the game. This game has SO much potential.

I prefer choice...if I want to PvP or not, I say yes or no. But if that can't be here, then please...make sure the cost to the PK'r equals the loss of the player being pk'd.

Bottom line, I don't want to lose hours of work. In fact, I can say that I won't do it for long if it happens.

Just my thoughts. :S

Largion
03-21-2010, 05:15 PM
Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?


If I build a camp (or a house or whatever) and someone comes over and builds garbage cheap buildings all around it so I can no longer even enjoy being there...then nope, I don't want to play.

What if they think your house is the ugly one? You cant controle outhers in a mmorpg.

To me, PvP and PK is all about loss. Loss of what is the question. It's based on a perspective of what is important to each individual player. If I spend 4 hours mining, and I get PK'd and lose everything I worked on, then nope, I don't want to play. It's NOT fun.


If you mine for 4 hours and dont bank your items you deserve to lose them.

Jadzia
03-21-2010, 05:21 PM
Jeopardy wrote:



1. He receives a chain link attached to his ankle. Each link he wears slows his movement speed down. He can have a maximum of 10 before he can no longer walk at more than crawl speed. He can have a blacksmith remove the links, one per RL hour. However, the blacksmith would earn some form of bad reputation for each link removed and thus, also earn links after so many are removed for others. Once the player is maxed out (10 links) that player can also be captured easily and placed in jail.

I prefer choice...if I want to PvP or not, I say yes or no. But if that can't be here, then please...make sure the cost to the PK'r equals the loss of the player being pk'd.

Bottom line, I don't want to lose hours of work. In fact, I can say that I won't do it for long if it happens.

Just my thoughts. :S
I love your idea #1 :laugh: It would just be great to see those gankers to crawl around with huge chains on their ankle...the best feature ever ! And I agree with what you wrote, I think every player should have the freedom to chose if they want to PvP or not.

Jeopardy
03-21-2010, 05:24 PM
Largion wrote:

Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?

PvP done right is fun, and adds challenges. Done wrong, destroys the game.


What if they think your house is the ugly one? You cant controle outhers in a mmorpg.

Actually, if you are willing to PK, then you should be willing to have a price as well if you are caught. Something equal to the cost of what you took. Control should be based on player laws or developer rules. So yes, you can control.


If you mine for 4 hours and dont bank your items you deserve to lose them.

Sounds to me like you havent played may building style games. You can't mine a piece of ore, run to town and bank it. It takes time to collect and craft (or at least it should).

This is a brand spankin' new game. It's up to the developer to decide what type of player base he wants. It's up to us to let him know what we want.

Largion
03-21-2010, 05:31 PM
Jeopardy wrote:


Sounds to me like you havent played may building style games. You can't mine a piece of ore, run to town and bank it. It takes time to collect and craft (or at least it should).

This is a brand spankin' new game. It's up to the developer to decide what type of player base he wants. It's up to us to let him know what we want.

I played UO for 6 something years SWG, and latest was Darkfall.

Im not talking about banking every minute but if you have been mining for 10 min its most likerly time too. Just be smart about it and you will be fine.

masic
03-21-2010, 05:32 PM
Also if your pk'ed, ruining your rep to the point of not being able to deal with the NPC merchants, being KOS to NPC's. is nice as well..PROVIDED its a single toon server, if its not you can bypass all negatives cause the bad toon will never really be punished.

Your #1 idea is a nice touch i have to say, slow you down and stick out like a soar thumb..nice

masic

PANZERBUNNY
03-21-2010, 06:01 PM
It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

I agree that if you are going to risk mining for 4 hours straight(probably unattended), without banking, thats your fault. Not the games or the player that happens to stumble across a weighted down opponent.

If you feel you're in danger. Bank. If you have reached a certain limited of wealth that would really suck to lose. Bank. See someone/hear someone coming? Hide/Run until you find out who they are.

I think there is a difference between me pvping your ass down in the wilds and pking. Pking to me is someone that runs around "searching" for people to jump and would gladly kill you over and over if he came back to the same area 20 minutes later and saw you mining again.

Wrekkoning
03-21-2010, 06:15 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:


I think there is a difference between me pvping your ass down in the wilds and pking. Pking to me is someone that runs around "searching" for people to jump and would gladly kill you over and over if he came back to the same area 20 minutes later and saw you mining again.


you would blame a player who returned to a place where he knew he could collect 20 minutes of mining in a few seconds of pvp? That still seems like the harvesters spot. Get hit where you are, change locations next time.

comestible
03-21-2010, 06:29 PM
Jeopardy wrote:

Largion wrote:

Why do you even want to play a game that have pvp options or even a online game?

PvP done right is fun, and adds challenges. Done wrong, destroys the game.

So far it looks like your two suggestions are an example of it done wrong.



What if they think your house is the ugly one? You cant controle outhers in a mmorpg.

Actually, if you are willing to PK, then you should be willing to have a price as well if you are caught. Something equal to the cost of what you took. Control should be based on player laws or developer rules. So yes, you can control.
You worded it that "Each time a player kills another one" NOT whenever they are caught. This is confusing, can you explain how somebody would be 'caught'.



If you mine for 4 hours and dont bank your items you deserve to lose them.

Sounds to me like you havent played may building style games. You can't mine a piece of ore, run to town and bank it. It takes time to collect and craft (or at least it should).

This is a brand spankin' new game. It's up to the developer to decide what type of player base he wants. It's up to us to let him know what we want.
This is a team oriented game. If you don't want to be ganked for your goods then work as a team with some like minded folks. In the event you run into some PVP or it runs into you, you'll have better chances of keeping your goods.

hawkwood70
03-21-2010, 06:31 PM
Or do like Eve and mine with one toon and run resources to the bank with another :P

Jadzia
03-21-2010, 06:34 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

Many of us would do that with pleasure. Just please convince Jordi to give us a PVE only server. We won't miss PKers there...but the PvP players are going to cry that their server became empty. If PvPers are confident enough that their playstyle is the better and more enjoyable one, why are they against server split ?

shadowlz
03-21-2010, 06:50 PM
Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

Many of us would do that with pleasure. Just please convince Jordi to give us a PVE only server. We won't miss PKers there...but the PvP players are going to cry that their server became empty. If PvPers are confident enough that their playstyle is the better and more enjoyable one, why are they against server split ?

They arnt against a split because of PvP, they don't want a split because thats stupid. So you would have 1 server that just builds towns, and one server that just ganks each other with their fists, naked.

PK isnt hard to avoid, unless your brain dead or something. If you are in a dangerous area, then watch your back. If your to stupid for that, then find a better spot to mine/chop/w/e

Jadzia
03-21-2010, 07:06 PM
shadowlz wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

Many of us would do that with pleasure. Just please convince Jordi to give us a PVE only server. We won't miss PKers there...but the PvP players are going to cry that their server became empty. If PvPers are confident enough that their playstyle is the better and more enjoyable one, why are they against server split ?

They arnt against a split because of PvP, they don't want a split because thats stupid. So you would have 1 server that just builds towns, and one server that just ganks each other with their fists, naked.

Or they would have 2 servers where everyone plays the game in the way they like ?

Palo god
03-21-2010, 07:09 PM
Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

Many of us would do that with pleasure. Just please convince Jordi to give us a PVE only server. We won't miss PKers there...but the PvP players are going to cry that their server became empty. If PvPers are confident enough that their playstyle is the better and more enjoyable one, why are they against server split ?

I don't think this game is for you.

Jadzia
03-21-2010, 07:15 PM
Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

Many of us would do that with pleasure. Just please convince Jordi to give us a PVE only server. We won't miss PKers there...but the PvP players are going to cry that their server became empty. If PvPers are confident enough that their playstyle is the better and more enjoyable one, why are they against server split ?

I don't think this game is for you.
I'm fighting for equal rights for PvPers and carebears :P

MrDDT
03-21-2010, 07:48 PM
Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

Many of us would do that with pleasure. Just please convince Jordi to give us a PVE only server. We won't miss PKers there...but the PvP players are going to cry that their server became empty. If PvPers are confident enough that their playstyle is the better and more enjoyable one, why are they against server split ?

Because you are right having 1/2 or so people leave to a PVE only server would cause major problems for BOTH servers.

Plus it would cause major problems for people that are on the fence about where to go. Best friend like PVE only, I like PVP. Now Im forced to join a PVE server OR him forced to join a PVP server.

Having more than 1 server has many reasons that causes problems.

You will find that all the more populated games have PVP of some form or another.

I dont know what game you are coming from but if its an MMO, it has PVP. The diff is FFA PVP. Sandbox missing a lot of sand without FFA PVP.

comestible
03-21-2010, 08:08 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

Many of us would do that with pleasure. Just please convince Jordi to give us a PVE only server. We won't miss PKers there...but the PvP players are going to cry that their server became empty. If PvPers are confident enough that their playstyle is the better and more enjoyable one, why are they against server split ?

I don't think this game is for you.
I'm fighting for equal rights for PvPers and carebears :P
No, you're fighting to have a white fountain and a black fountain when there should only be one checkerboard fountain. Or dare I say a gray fountain!

Xx1327
03-21-2010, 08:12 PM
comestible wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

Many of us would do that with pleasure. Just please convince Jordi to give us a PVE only server. We won't miss PKers there...but the PvP players are going to cry that their server became empty. If PvPers are confident enough that their playstyle is the better and more enjoyable one, why are they against server split ?

I don't think this game is for you.
I'm fighting for equal rights for PvPers and carebears :P
No, you're fighting to have a white fountain and a black fountain when there should only be one checkerboard fountain. Or dare I say a gray fountain!\\

sweet Jesus man whats up with all the common sense

Jadzia
03-21-2010, 08:17 PM
MrDDT wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

Many of us would do that with pleasure. Just please convince Jordi to give us a PVE only server. We won't miss PKers there...but the PvP players are going to cry that their server became empty. If PvPers are confident enough that their playstyle is the better and more enjoyable one, why are they against server split ?

Because you are right having 1/2 or so people leave to a PVE only server would cause major problems for BOTH servers.

Plus it would cause major problems for people that are on the fence about where to go. Best friend like PVE only, I like PVP. Now Im forced to join a PVE server OR him forced to join a PVP server.

Having more than 1 server has many reasons that causes problems.

You will find that all the more populated games have PVP of some form or another.

I dont know what game you are coming from but if its an MMO, it has PVP. The diff is FFA PVP. Sandbox missing a lot of sand without FFA PVP.
You are right, the server split is not the best solution. I have no problem with PvP, I have problem with FFA PvP. And my problem is not that I'm scared of being killed or loosing stuffs. My problem is that if I pay to play a game, i want it to be fair. PvPers want non-PvPers to be around as victims...I'm fine with this if you can tell me whats the benefit in it for me. If I get no benefit out of that that means I'm paying for the game to give fun to another player, not for myself. I'm not unselfish enough to pay for another person's fun.
If you can convince me that having FFA PvP in a game benefits for non-PvP players too, then i have no more problems with it. But arguments like 'its realistic', 'its more immersive', 'its fun' are not acceptable, I don't find PvP realistic or fun or anything like that. I like PvP (not FFA) because it freshens up the economy, so good for my business :P
I'm looking forward to see arguments that why FFA PVP is good for non-PvP players...and I really mean it, I've been thinking a lot on it lately. And please don't tell me to go to find another game...Xsyon sounds like my dream MMO, apart of FFA PvP, so I won't give up on it that easy.
And I'm glad to get opinions and ideas from everyone, but please answer the original question and dont get distracted :P
What's the benefit of FFA PVP for non-PvP players ?

necoo
03-21-2010, 08:52 PM
Jeopardy wrote:

If I spend 4 hours mining, and I get PK'd and lose everything I worked on

Just my thoughts. :S

if you are going to waist away 4 hours gathering materials the you had better have an escape rout lad out less someone like me comes up and takes it all away... not like there are not any ways to avoid me attacking you to begin with, first find a well hidden spot to avoid contact with pll with ill-intentions wile at the same time be able to gather materials, then you can always run when you see someone coming however please note that in this game you become slower the more stuff you have with you, then it would be advised to have a few tribe-mates with you to watch your back or perhaps remain in your tribes territory so that you can easily get some backup when problems arise, and then there is always the classic as in fighting back, assuming you can fight back, in which case if it becomes apparent that the pker is most likly to lose the fight the pker will most likely retreat rather then loose his stuff in the attack.

MrDDT
03-21-2010, 10:11 PM
Jadzia wrote:

What's the benefit of FFA PVP for non-PvP players ?

An Econ that works very well. Wars break out, and trades and politics happen.

Other things are, crafting for building a defense city. The better your crafters are and work, the better your defense will be. Need a wall built? Crafters help you a lot there.

Crafters are very needed. I look at other sandbox games like Wurm, and Roma Victor, and without crafters those guilds would be up a creek. They need solid crafters to support their war efforts and for basics.

NON PvP players are not just crafters either, they are also PVE people. PVE in Xsyon (and other sandbox games) are not just to go out and kill the 'bestest' and baddest thing out there. You need to harvest resources, and acquire rare items, from PVE and exploring.
What NON FFA PVPers get in an FFA PVP world is the fact that when they do get something, it has more of a use than "Oh that looks so cool" you come back with rare resources or techs that your clan/guild/tribe can use, and use well. You gain respect for being someone that helps the team not just in defense of your tribe, but because you are willing to help with rare and support your tribe.

Without FFA PVP, there is no risk, players dont have that drive, that need to defend or attack. Its done where places are so protected that there is no fear thus its worth less.

sisler86
03-21-2010, 10:45 PM
What is Xsyon?

Xsyon is a massively multiplayer online role playing game (MMORPG), an online community, a virtual world and an adventure.

Set in the near future, Xsyon is an apocalyptic fable. The world draws its inspiration from history, mythology, and prophecies of the Apocalypse. Most aspects of modern life are now gone. The leaders of the new world, under the guidance of the reinvigorated once forgotten gods, have hidden traces of the scientific progress that led to the devastation of the earth. Modern vehicles, weapons, appliances, computer and even the books that describe these things are practically nowhere to be found.

The world will be released in a series of installments. Each release will further expand the online world to locations across the planet. the myths, beliefs and culture of these locations, both past and present will augment the Xsyon experience, as new skills, crafts, artifacts, creatures and landscapes are introduced. The storyline will advance based on the prophetic revelations and the players settlers of Xsyon who influence and determine the current state of the world.


Xsyon is Dynamic:

Xsyon is an ever changing dynamic world. Players affect the environment by gathering resources, chopping down trees, hunting animals, building towns and developing trade. Players hold the power to create and destroy, to maintain a balance with nature or to cultivate a new civilization.

The game is built around environmental, natural, economic, questing, and social systems. These systems are in constant flux and it's the players interacting with these systems that determine the current state of the virtual world.


Xsyon is Educational:

Xsyon is a fantasy world, but is heavily based on reality. Set in an uncertain apocalyptic future, the virtual world draws upon real life geography, history, science and medicine, fauna and geology are slightly twisted versions of what is real. Whether you are ascertaining which wood is sturdy enough for construction and which is flexible enough for a bow, gathering information on the local geography or uncovering historical facts and trivia, there is always something new and real you can learn from the Xsyon world.


Xsyon is Flexible:

As a player, explorer and settler of this new virtual world you have many choices. You can play as a warrior, a trader, a crafter, or a cultivator of crops. You can specialize your skills or become a jack of all trades. You can play as a clan leader or town offical, socially involved with many other players, or you can explore the world as a lone adventurer. Xsyon is a game for all kinds of players from casual to hard core. The path you take is up to you.


Xsyon is Fun:

Whether you are a first day scavenger or a grizzled veteran, Xsyon should be fun. Players begin with a decent set of statistics rather than evolve from a weakling to a super human. You enter the world inexperienced and lacking skill, with strengths and weaknesses, but still as a hero. Rather than grind levels to reach predictable goals, Xsyon is based on change, interactions and consequences. As new quests, lands and features are constantly introduced, there is always something new for you to discover.


Xsyon is Unique:

By combining elements of different game genres and social worlds and by blurring the line between fantasy and reality we have created a unique online world. We hope you will find the Xsyon experience fresh, enjoyable, rewarding and full of surprises.

Explore, learn, make friends and enjoy! Are you with us?


What is the Prelude?

The Prelude is a limited first release of the Xsyon virtual world. An isolated basin surrounded by mountains in a future American wilderness serves as a launching point for the ever expanding world. This setting provides a pristine environment for players to develop a new world.

During the Prelude, Xsyon will continuously evolve and expand. Denizens will uncover remnants of lost technology, discover new crafts and skills and encounter new creatures. A deadly fog which surrounds the basin will slowly recede to expose new lands, more affected and ravaged by the ongoing apocalypse.

The players of the Prelude begin as scavengers, hunters and gatherers. By uniting as clans and building towns, they will cultivate civilizations, establish trade, forge alliances and develop enmities. They lay the foundations for future generations of Xsyon dwellers.

Join us now in the Prelude and help determine the future of Xsyon!

I'm just wandering why everyone is so hell-bent on forcing FFA PvP into this game. No where in the games description do I see this being the games focus. I see this being a game focused on building and forging civilizations rather than the typical run around killing everyone MMO. This is not Darkfall. It also worries me a bit that the game hasn't even come out yet and people are already worried about this being a giant PvP fest.

Taylor999
03-21-2010, 10:53 PM
wars will happen buddy , weather its not pvp focused or not , wars are what keeps shit interesting , if nothing could happen to ur progress and all u did was build build build , not very many people would play

necoo
03-21-2010, 10:59 PM
sisler86 wrote:


I'm just wandering why everyone is so hell-bent on forcing FFA PvP into this game. No where in the games description do I see this being the games focus. I see this being a game focused on building and forging civilizations rather than the typical run around killing everyone MMO. This is not Darkfall. It also worries me a bit that the game hasn't even come out yet and people are already worried about this being a giant PvP fest.

a few things here it has already been made clear that there will be FFA PvP weather we like it or not... these conversations are more like how we as a community will deal with the PvP system however it is true that this will unlikely be the focus of the game... anyway this is most likely the reason that the game was purposely under-hyped was to avoid tens of thousands of PvP madmen (like me) from swarming the game from the vary beginning and to allow the game to develop a form of "government" to ensure the safety and further development of the game world as a whole

sisler86
03-21-2010, 11:04 PM
I would proudly label myself as what many people on here refer to as a "carebear" type. :) I do not enjoy a lot of PvP unless I choose to get involved. My point is that everyone who says to me that "this game is not for you" ends up ruining every game non PvP'rs finally find that isn't like that (by its description, this being one of them) The game description says nothing about waging wars or battling different factions. It says things like explore, build, and expand. When I first discovered this game, I thought that it was going to be my dream MMO, but I am starting to become very concerned that the immature PvP'rs (not all of them) are gonna ruin this one for me too. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this concern.

Dominus
03-21-2010, 11:19 PM
Without conflict and pvp there is no incentive to progress. You just build, craft, hunt, advance...and then what? Brag to your friends that you're some epic shit crafter with max skill?

Might aswell go play Oblivion or Command & Conquer.

That's my opinion. I do like PvE and some crafting/gathering, but without a purpose I'll get bored.

necoo
03-21-2010, 11:22 PM
sisler86 wrote:

I would proudly label myself as what many people on here refer to as a "carebear" type. :) I do not enjoy a lot of PvP unless I choose to get involved. My point is that everyone who says to me that "this game is not for you" ends up ruining every game non PvP'rs finally find that isn't like that (by its description, this being one of them) The game description says nothing about waging wars or battling different factions. It says things like explore, build, and expand. When I first discovered this game, I thought that it was going to be my dream MMO, but I am starting to become very concerned that the immature PvP'rs (not all of them) are gonna ruin this one for me too. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this concern.

rest assured this game can still be a "carebears" dream game and at the same time a "PvP madmans" dream game, for example i (the PvP madman) already think of this game as my dream game, as this is the most excited i have been about a game, because of all of its awesome features which are planed to be in this game, for example its great crafting system, wile at the same time it's PvP system... to get into more detail from what i have seen although the PvP system is indeed free for all the game world will undoubtedly be community driven, due to it be a sandbox game, and thus the rules and laws of the world would make it increasingly difficult to be a pker... and i think that PvP should be monitored and hindered less it over run the game and submerge any other great features in a sea of blood never to be seen again... and i like it that way as i like to be challenged, wile you "carebears" can go about your business relatively safe as long as someone like me isn't trying to kill you

PANZERBUNNY
03-21-2010, 11:23 PM
Jadzia wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

Many of us would do that with pleasure. Just please convince Jordi to give us a PVE only server. We won't miss PKers there...but the PvP players are going to cry that their server became empty. If PvPers are confident enough that their playstyle is the better and more enjoyable one, why are they against server split ?

They arnt against a split because of PvP, they don't want a split because thats stupid. So you would have 1 server that just builds towns, and one server that just ganks each other with their fists, naked.

Or they would have 2 servers where everyone plays the game in the way they like ?

Everyone gets to play the game they like too. Just so happens that people enjoy running along and smacking you over the head with their stone club.

I'm sorry, but this game has been described as having PVP and an open sandbox environment.
Splitting the server would be stupid and detrimental to the game. Stop being selfish and thinking about your own playstyle while letting everyone elses die.

Everything will have its place in the game.

sisler86
03-22-2010, 12:00 AM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

It sounds like you dont like consequence gaming and should stick to a mostly PVE game.

Many of us would do that with pleasure. Just please convince Jordi to give us a PVE only server. We won't miss PKers there...but the PvP players are going to cry that their server became empty. If PvPers are confident enough that their playstyle is the better and more enjoyable one, why are they against server split ?

They arnt against a split because of PvP, they don't want a split because thats stupid. So you would have 1 server that just builds towns, and one server that just ganks each other with their fists, naked.

Or they would have 2 servers where everyone plays the game in the way they like ?

Everyone gets to play the game they like too. Just so happens that people enjoy running along and smacking you over the head with their stone club.

I'm sorry, but this game has been described as having PVP and an open sandbox environment.
Splitting the server would be stupid and detrimental to the game. Stop being selfish and thinking about your own playstyle while letting everyone elses die.

Everything will have its place in the game.

I agree. I think we are all being too quick to say one way or another how this game is going to pan out. I say we just play the game and see where it goes. Who knows? They may have a great system that will continually work for both PvPr's and nonPvP'rs.

Jeopardy
03-22-2010, 12:25 AM
Taylor999 wrote:

wars will happen buddy , weather its not pvp focused or not , wars are what keeps shit interesting , if nothing could happen to ur progress and all u did was build build build , not very many people would play

Um, not even close to true. Games like ATITD do just fine and there is not one single ounce of fighting in that game. It's all about building and politics. It keeps interest and is quite fun. There are still MANY ways to be devious, it's just not that...jump someone cause you can, attitude. People use their brains, not their muscles. I would really like to see more of that style in this game.

Many people would rather solve social and political puzzles than run around fighting each other for no real reason.

You want a straight PK war game, go play an MMO that goes for that. Honestly, when I paid for this game, I did not see this attitude in the posts from the developer. I don't think that PK is even close to being a focus for this game. It may be a part of the game, but certainly not a focus. IF I am wrong, I would love to hear that from the dev.

Come on folks, there are more than one type of person that plays games. Just how many games are out there to PK in? TONS. How many are there that actually allow players to build, create and enjoy. Only a very few.

I am NOT saying PvP isnt ok. It's not my preference, but it can be interesting if implemented properly.

I AM saying PK is NOT ok for me. ONLY with very well balanced ways to manage it, is it even tolerable.

And I have to agree with those that brought this up...I would love a choice. PvP or PvE server. Especially if it's going to be a FFA PK environment.

:blink:

PANZERBUNNY
03-22-2010, 01:18 AM
Jeopardy wrote:

Taylor999 wrote:

wars will happen buddy , weather its not pvp focused or not , wars are what keeps shit interesting , if nothing could happen to ur progress and all u did was build build build , not very many people would play

Um, not even close to true. Games like ATITD do just fine and there is not one single ounce of fighting in that game. It's all about building and politics. It keeps interest and is quite fun. There are still MANY ways to be devious, it's just not that...jump someone cause you can, attitude. People use their brains, not their muscles. I would really like to see more of that style in this game.

Many people would rather solve social and political puzzles than run around fighting each other for no real reason.

You want a straight PK war game, go play an MMO that goes for that. Honestly, when I paid for this game, I did not see this attitude in the posts from the developer. I don't think that PK is even close to being a focus for this game. It may be a part of the game, but certainly not a focus. IF I am wrong, I would love to hear that from the dev.

Come on folks, there are more than one type of person that plays games. Just how many games are out there to PK in? TONS. How many are there that actually allow players to build, create and enjoy. Only a very few.

I am NOT saying PvP isnt ok. It's not my preference, but it can be interesting if implemented properly.

I AM saying PK is NOT ok for me. ONLY with very well balanced ways to manage it, is it even tolerable.

And I have to agree with those that brought this up...I would love a choice. PvP or PvE server. Especially if it's going to be a FFA PK environment.

:blink:

Right.
A post disaster apoc. themed game where people have to hunt, skin and use everything they can get their hands on to make armour and weapons to survive....but lets use politics? 0_o. Does anyone else seem to think that this theme is geared towards murdering that stranger across the way that has something you need?

And many people would rather solve social and political puzzles? 0_o. right. you keep on believing that.

sisler86
03-22-2010, 01:23 AM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jeopardy wrote:

Taylor999 wrote:

wars will happen buddy , weather its not pvp focused or not , wars are what keeps shit interesting , if nothing could happen to ur progress and all u did was build build build , not very many people would play

Um, not even close to true. Games like ATITD do just fine and there is not one single ounce of fighting in that game. It's all about building and politics. It keeps interest and is quite fun. There are still MANY ways to be devious, it's just not that...jump someone cause you can, attitude. People use their brains, not their muscles. I would really like to see more of that style in this game.

Many people would rather solve social and political puzzles than run around fighting each other for no real reason.

You want a straight PK war game, go play an MMO that goes for that. Honestly, when I paid for this game, I did not see this attitude in the posts from the developer. I don't think that PK is even close to being a focus for this game. It may be a part of the game, but certainly not a focus. IF I am wrong, I would love to hear that from the dev.

Come on folks, there are more than one type of person that plays games. Just how many games are out there to PK in? TONS. How many are there that actually allow players to build, create and enjoy. Only a very few.

I am NOT saying PvP isnt ok. It's not my preference, but it can be interesting if implemented properly.

I AM saying PK is NOT ok for me. ONLY with very well balanced ways to manage it, is it even tolerable.

And I have to agree with those that brought this up...I would love a choice. PvP or PvE server. Especially if it's going to be a FFA PK environment.

:blink:

Right.
A post disaster apoc. themed game where people have to hunt, skin and use everything they can get their hands on to make armour and weapons to survive....but lets use politics? 0_o. Does anyone else seem to think that this theme is geared towards murdering that stranger across the way that has something you need?

And many people would rather solve social and political puzzles? 0_o. right. you keep on believing that.

Why would you murder someone for some resources when you can just get it yourself. That's not fun that is lazy :P

VowOfSilence
03-22-2010, 02:00 AM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Right.
A post disaster apoc. themed game where people have to hunt, skin and use everything they can get their hands on to make armour and weapons to survive....but lets use politics? 0_o. Does anyone else seem to think that this theme is geared towards murdering that stranger across the way that has something you need?

And many people would rather solve social and political puzzles? 0_o. right. you keep on believing that.

IF you really need to fight someone to survive, it's entirely ok to so, because there is a real ingame reason to act this way. But a post-apoc game also includes ambitions to rebuild a civilized society, so there you got the "social and political puzzles".

But if someone plans to grief and kill others no matter what, simply because "FU, that's my playstyle and i enjoy it, go play another game carebear!" - well, i hope Xsyon won't be geared towards these people. These people don't really care about reasons, acting in-character, the game world, or other players.

sisler86
03-22-2010, 02:22 AM
VowOfSilence wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Right.
A post disaster apoc. themed game where people have to hunt, skin and use everything they can get their hands on to make armour and weapons to survive....but lets use politics? 0_o. Does anyone else seem to think that this theme is geared towards murdering that stranger across the way that has something you need?

And many people would rather solve social and political puzzles? 0_o. right. you keep on believing that.

IF you really need to fight someone to survive, it's entirely ok to so, because there is a real ingame reason to act this way. But a post-apoc game also includes ambitions to rebuild a civilized society, so there you got the "social and political puzzles".

But if someone plans to grief and kill others no matter what, simply because "FU, that's my playstyle and i enjoy it, go play another game carebear!" - well, i hope Xsyon won't be geared towards these people. These people don't really care about reasons, acting in-character, the game world, or other players.

That's more or less where I am at on this. I'm not opposed to PvP as a whole, I just don't want to have to watch my back every five seconds for an immature PK just to go out and get a piece of wood for a house. PvP is obviously intended to be a smaller aspect of this game and I hope that the way things work out, it will be very inconvenient, if not completely pointless to "gank" someone.

VowOfSilence
03-22-2010, 08:08 AM
necoo wrote:

anyway this is most likely the reason that the game was purposely under-hyped was to avoid tens of thousands of PvP madmen (like me) from swarming the game from the vary beginning and to allow the game to develop a form of "government" to ensure the safety and further development of the game world as a whole

btw: define "PvP madmen"? I mean, in order to ensure safetly, PvPers are needed as well. Lots of, actually. Officially declare yourself "protector of all carebears", and you'll get more PvP than you can handle, that's for sure ='D
And it's honorable and challenging combat too, unlike blantant backstabbing.

Sophist
03-22-2010, 08:09 AM
In sandbox games you typically have to worry about PK. PKing isn't 'immature' necessarily, you have something they want, so they take it. Being a PK should be a very big decision so there isn't random PKing constantly, but there shouldn't be any reason some guy in a sandbox game is unable to attack you.

To fully disclose I'm a PK/griefer in about every game I play. Honestly though, I think most of the people that do it are complete idiots and have no sense of making it funny or interesting. Most of it is 'LULZ I SPAWN CAMP U' type of stuff. PKers should have to make a pretty big decision to be a PKer and live with some fairly tough consequences. Death penalties for reds ought to be fairly steep for example.

And it isn't pointless to 'gank' people necessarily. The whole point of this game is interactions with others in game, and you should be able to interact with people meaningfully. I PK/grief for a bit of fun, look at 'Belan the Looter' from Ultima Online or some Something Awful members. Others do it because they don't feel like spending 10 hours chopping trees, and honestly, if some guy is chopping trees a whole bunch and not being careful why not? Its a sandbox game and its meant to let the player make as many decisions as possible, and have to live with them.

Leave yourself vulnerable while chopping trees? Well, there are potential consequences. Be a PKer? Consequences.

*EDIT*

Let me do mention though that this game should not be ABOUT PvP/PK. UO PKing was so great because it wasn't about that stuff. Recent 'sandbox' MMOs like Darkfall/Mortal Online have forgotten this and really made it just a PvP game rather than a sandbox game. There should be heavy enough punishments so it isn't just about PvP, but the freedom for some to do so anyway.

Sophist
03-22-2010, 08:13 AM
Haha, anti-PKs get WAY more PvP than PKs do by a long shot. In UO the antis were typically better equipped because they were protecting all of the crafters, and they didn't have to worry quite so much about death as the PKs did. Good post.

sisler86
03-22-2010, 08:29 AM
I'm just worried that this game is going to turn out like the t.v. show "Lost." It started out good as a bunch of people building shanties and trying to survive, but just ended up turning into an "others fighting others" killing fest.

The whole meaning behind the term "sandbox" means that the game world is shaped and formed by the players. Let's not form this into something that will end up destroying itself. I'm ok with PvP, but Darkfall and other faction vs faction games already exists, lets Xsyon be Xsyon.

necoo
03-22-2010, 10:58 AM
VowOfSilence wrote:

necoo wrote:

anyway this is most likely the reason that the game was purposely under-hyped was to avoid tens of thousands of PvP madmen (like me) from swarming the game from the vary beginning and to allow the game to develop a form of "government" to ensure the safety and further development of the game world as a whole

btw: define "PvP madmen"? I mean, in order to ensure safetly, PvPers are needed as well. Lots of, actually. Officially declare yourself "protector of all carebears", and you'll get more PvP than you can handle, that's for sure ='D
And it's honorable and challenging combat too, unlike blantant backstabbing.

"PvP madmen" are like the guys that go into a game only to fight other players and continually fight through out the day... wile i admit i'm not quite at that point i do enjoy a good fight though im not so holy as to protect random "carebears" even if that means ill get to fight... and its not as though i won't kill you without a reason i will always have a reason even if the only reason is "im bored" in which case i most likely will just leave you unconscious and not kill you and might just leave you will all your stuff unless you have something good

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 12:50 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


Or they would have 2 servers where everyone plays the game in the way they like ?

Everyone gets to play the game they like too. Just so happens that people enjoy running along and smacking you over the head with their stone club.

I'm sorry, but this game has been described as having PVP and an open sandbox environment.
Splitting the server would be stupid and detrimental to the game. Stop being selfish and thinking about your own playstyle while letting everyone elses die.

Everything will have its place in the game.
Read the feature list of the game on the site, it says NOTHING about PvP. And excuse me, how can my selfish playstyle destroys others' ?If its only me who want to build and play in peace then obviously I'll be alone on the PVE server...not destroying your PVP game. If the majority of the players go to the PVE server that means you were the selfish one...you wanted to use other players as the source of your own fun, and you were the one who ignored they didn't want to take part of it.
And about having server split :

Xsyon wrote:

Re: Server Selection? 3 Weeks, 5 Days ago
We will have one server at start.

We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 12:58 PM
For all of us who are concerned about FFA PvP I've collected Xsyon's posts about the topic. For me his posts show that the game won't be the PvPers dream game :)
All of the following posts were written by Xsyon.

Re: Server Selection? 3 Weeks, 5 Days ago
We will have one server at start.
We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment.

Re:Server Selection? 3 Weeks, 3 Days ago
Thanks for the discussion so far.
I think a big problem with the UO two world implementation is that with the 'dark' world it seemed to encourage, not just allow, ganking and non stop PVP.

Ideally, we would have one well balanced world, where most PVP is friendly sparring (not resulting in death) and where evil players really feel like game 'monsters' but with better, unpredictable AI.

Re:Attack enemy tribe's village ? 3 Weeks, 3 Days ago
Rutaq wrote:Can enemy tribes siege villages ?

In the early Prelude, no. This is something we want to fully implement that will be worked out with the player community.
In particular we will be discussing how to deal with villages when all players are offline.

Re:Alignment and the Never Ending Nerf Cycle 2 Weeks, 5 Days ago
Vessol wrote:
I'd love an alignment system that made PKs rare and actually badass and the hardest of the hardcore, not well, everybody. Like it was in UO. PKing is boring when everyone and their sister is doing it.


Yes, this is the goal and if things don't seem balanced enough at first, we will adjust the system to achieve this goal.

Re:FFA PVP? 2 Weeks, 3 Days ago
Jadzia wrote:
i think player feedbacks are important for him, and might make him to give some second thoughts of this feature.

Yes it is! I will pay special attention to the actual player community once the Prelude is launched.

There should be enough in place for the game to not turn into a gankfest. The intention of Xsyon is to be a fun, open, sandbox game with possibilities for all kinds of players. If the game starts to get thrown off balance by gankers, the balance will shift. Simple as that.

JCatano
03-22-2010, 01:30 PM
Jadzia -

Obviously, I don't know exactly how the system will play out, but the developers have included open-PvP as a mechanic. That only happens if they really enjoy that playstyle themselves. It's not a half-assed decision.

There is big possibility that you will not be happy with Xsyon, since you clearly do not enjoy PvP.

And if they make being "evil" so harsh that it's incredibly rare, then they need to stop layering the code with that system. There definitely has to be consequences, but there also has to be balance for all 3 styles... Good, neutral, and evil.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 01:34 PM
JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -
There is big possibility that you will not be happy with Xsyon, since you clearly do not enjoy PvP.


Xsyon wrote:
We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment.

Seeing the feature list and Xsyon's posts it may happen that it will be the PvPers who won't be happy with the game.

JCatano
03-22-2010, 01:42 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -
There is big possibility that you will not be happy with Xsyon, since you clearly do not enjoy PvP.


Xsyon wrote:
We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment.

Seeing the feature list and Xsyon's posts it may happen that it will be the PvPers who won't be happy with the game.

Yes, I've seen the "considering" part...

Not sure why I wouldn't be happy. There is definitely going to be a normal server, and I won't be choosing a PvE server if they even have enough cash-flow to pay for the infrastructure of one. They aren't going to spend tens-of-thousands-of-dollars to make a PvE server for a few hundred people. It would have to be a very large number of subscribers interested in one. That's why he said "if we have enough".

Dominus
03-22-2010, 01:42 PM
If they make 2 separate servers, I'm gone.
Hopefully they stick to their original ideas and don't let the carebears influence(ruin) their game like UO did. Listening to the community for feedback is fine and dandy, but if you steer way off course on your ideas, it'll be a trainwreck.

necoo
03-22-2010, 01:53 PM
i for one do not like the idea of a PvE only world because it would take away such a large part of the game with no hope of getting it back.... how would you even be able to be evil in that not to mention it would be imposable to be a bounty hunter because you would have to openly challenge the "evil" guy which in that world it would be imposable to be evil... and with evil gone there will no longer be any purpose of being good so now there is only a neutral alignment... the free for all player vs player system adds so much to the game that if you took it away you would have to take many other systems away because they would be pointless

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 01:53 PM
JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -
There is big possibility that you will not be happy with Xsyon, since you clearly do not enjoy PvP.


Xsyon wrote:
We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment.

Seeing the feature list and Xsyon's posts it may happen that it will be the PvPers who won't be happy with the game.

Yes, I've seen the "considering" part...

Not sure why I wouldn't be happy. There is definitely going to be a normal server, and I won't be choosing a PvE server if they even have enough cash-flow to pay for the infrastructure of one. They aren't going to spend tens-of-thousands-of-dollars to make a PvE server for a few hundred people. It would have to be a very large number of subscribers interested in one. That's why he said "if we have enough".
I didn't say you personally wouldn't be happy, I meant the PvP gankers who hope for mindless player killing. And they won't be happy on a normal server because the developers aren't willing to turn the game into a gankfest, so they probably will be crying about the severe PK punishments. And they will have to realise that this is not a PvP game, this is a building-crafting-surviving-exploring game with PvP option. I have no problem with meaningful PvP, it should be mutual, and not like 'I killed u noob coz i was bored !'

And about having enough players who wish a safer environment...I'd love to see a survey about it after the game launch. If I belong to the minority (wanting PvP zones and PvP without FFA) I'm willing to accept I was wrong and to stay on the normal server.

Dominus
03-22-2010, 01:56 PM
There's no such thing as "mutual" PvP. It's called a duel at best.

I'm all for meaningful PvP, most likely Tribe vs. Tribe. But I wouldn't mind a few pk's here and there if they are worth it and challenging for a reason.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 01:56 PM
Dominus wrote:

If they make 2 separate servers, I'm gone.

I would be sorry to see you leaving, but why would you ? If there are 2 servers, you have your PvP one with your like-minded fellow PvPers...whats wrong with it ? Its nice to see you guys would miss us 'carebears' so much :P

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 01:58 PM
Dominus wrote:

There's no such thing as "mutual" PvP. It's called a duel at best.

I'm all for meaningful PvP, most likely Tribe vs. Tribe. But I wouldn't mind a few pk's here and there if they are worth it and challenging for a reason.
I thought of mutual Pvp as a PvP-flagged system, players can flag themselves for PvP.

JCatano
03-22-2010, 02:02 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -
There is big possibility that you will not be happy with Xsyon, since you clearly do not enjoy PvP.


Xsyon wrote:
We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment.

Seeing the feature list and Xsyon's posts it may happen that it will be the PvPers who won't be happy with the game.

Yes, I've seen the "considering" part...

Not sure why I wouldn't be happy. There is definitely going to be a normal server, and I won't be choosing a PvE server if they even have enough cash-flow to pay for the infrastructure of one. They aren't going to spend tens-of-thousands-of-dollars to make a PvE server for a few hundred people. It would have to be a very large number of subscribers interested in one. That's why he said "if we have enough".
I didn't say you personally wouldn't be happy, I meant the PvP gankers who hope for mindless player killing. And they won't be happy on a normal server because the developers aren't willing to turn the game into a gankfest, so they probably will be crying about the severe PK punishments. And they will have to realise that this is not a PvP game, this is a building-crafting-surviving-exploring game with PvP option. I have no problem with meaningful PvP, it should be mutual, and not like 'I killed u noob coz i was bored !'

As I said... You don't make an open-pvp game without PvP being a large part of the entire system. It's not an "option" and won't be "mutual" as you stated. If it was, there wouldn't be open-pvp. We're all going to get PK'd. We'll probably get PK'd a whole lot while PK'ing others. I have no problem with that. :)

Dominus
03-22-2010, 02:08 PM
Jadzia wrote:

I would be sorry to see you leaving, but why would you ? If there are 2 servers, you have your PvP one with your like-minded fellow PvPers...whats wrong with it ? Its nice to see you guys would miss us 'carebears' so much :P
Well, separating the community is never a good idea. Especially if the game is a niche sandbox that caters to a very certain few.
Having 2 different worlds would force me to become something I don't want to be.
I need someone besides me, who can craft me my gear, build my house and cook me dinner when I come home from war all bloody and tired.

Jadzia wrote:


I thought of mutual Pvp as a PvP-flagged system, players can flag themselves for PvP.
I don't like that system. Doesn't feel sandboxy :P
It would spring alot of turtles who'd never fight or only when it suits them.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 02:12 PM
JCatano wrote:


As I said... You don't make an open-pvp game without PvP being a large part of the entire system. It's not an "option" and won't be "mutual" as you stated. If it was, there wouldn't be open-pvp. We're all going to get PK'd. We'll probably get PK'd a whole lot while PK'ing others. I have no problem with that. :)
I understand you enjoy that kind of fun, and you have no problem with that. But why should I be forced to take part of it if I don't like it ? A flagging system would work for me too, since you guys seem to hate PvP zones...who want to PvP flag themselves for it, peaceful players flag themselves for non-PvP. In this way everyone get what they want. And of course there has to be a control system, like you can't unflag yourself from PvP as long as you are red named.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 02:19 PM
Dominus wrote:


Jadzia wrote:


I thought of mutual Pvp as a PvP-flagged system, players can flag themselves for PvP.
I don't like that system. Doesn't feel sandboxy :P
It would spring alot of turtles who'd never fight or only when it suits them.
Being bugged by PKers while I'm minding my own business doesn't feel sandboxy to me :P And why those slow turtles bother you ? Just ignore them, and enjoy your game.

JCatano
03-22-2010, 02:22 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


As I said... You don't make an open-pvp game without PvP being a large part of the entire system. It's not an "option" and won't be "mutual" as you stated. If it was, there wouldn't be open-pvp. We're all going to get PK'd. We'll probably get PK'd a whole lot while PK'ing others. I have no problem with that. :)
I understand you enjoy that kind of fun, and you have no problem with that. But why should I be forced to take part of it if I don't like it ? A flagging system would work for me too, since you guys seem to hate PvP zones...who want to PvP flag themselves for it, peaceful players flag themselves for non-PvP. In this way everyone get what they want. And of course there has to be a control system, like you can't unflag yourself from PvP as long as you are red named.

Because that system destroys the dynamics. How am I supposed to keep you from supplying your Tribe with gear if you never turn on your PvP flag? How am I supposed to conquer your town if you all refuse to go to war by keeping your safe-flag on and saying "Neener neener!". It would undermine the entire game. Conflict is a large part of the game. That's why there is open-pvp, tribe wars, allies, conquering of areas, etc. I love to explore, craft, etc., too... But I also love meaningful PvP.

You cannot have a game with all of the proposed mechanics plus a PvP-flag system. While this is similar to SWG in a number of aspects, it is not SWG.

Dominus
03-22-2010, 02:30 PM
JCatano wrote:

Because that system destroys the dynamics. How am I supposed to keep you from supplying your Tribe with gear if you never turn on your PvP flag? How am I supposed to conquer your town if you all refuse to go to war by keeping your safe-flag on and saying "Neener neener!". It would undermine the entire game. Conflict is a large part of the game. That's why there is open-pvp, tribe wars, allies, conquering of areas, etc. I love to explore, craft, etc., too... But I also love meaningful PvP.

You cannot have a game with all of the proposed mechanics plus a PvP-flag system. While this is similar to SWG in a number of aspects, it is not SWG.
+1. Very wise words. *strokes beard*

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 02:35 PM
JCatano wrote:


Because that system destroys the dynamics. How am I supposed to keep you from supplying your Tribe with gear if you never turn on your PvP flag?
This is the first good argument i read about FFA PvP.


How am I supposed to conquer your town if you all refuse to go to war by keeping your safe-flag on and saying "Neener neener!". It would undermine the entire game. Conflict is a large part of the game. That's why there is open-pvp, tribe wars, allies, conquering of areas, etc. I love to explore, craft, etc., too... But I also love meaningful PvP.

I'm not sure about this. I think conflict should be an interesting, but small part of the game. To be honest if I was a real survivor after an apocalyps, I would be very happy to find other survivors, and the natural way would be to work together and establish our life again. And about sieges...towns will be safe areas during Prelude, and its not decided yet how that will work after Prelude.
In the feature list I haven't seen the feature conquering areas, but claiming areas.

necoo
03-22-2010, 02:44 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


Because that system destroys the dynamics. How am I supposed to keep you from supplying your Tribe with gear if you never turn on your PvP flag?
This is the first good argument i read about FFA PvP.


How am I supposed to conquer your town if you all refuse to go to war by keeping your safe-flag on and saying "Neener neener!". It would undermine the entire game. Conflict is a large part of the game. That's why there is open-pvp, tribe wars, allies, conquering of areas, etc. I love to explore, craft, etc., too... But I also love meaningful PvP.

I'm not sure about this. I think conflict should be an interesting, but small part of the game. To be honest if I was a real survivor after an apocalyps, I would be very happy to find other survivors, and the natural way would be to work together and establish our life again. And about sieges...towns will be safe areas during Prelude, and its not decided yet how that will work after Prelude.

after an apocalypse society would break down and there would be no law or government or order to protect you... the people that you meet would be more likely to strip you of everything you have then leave you for dead that is where tribes come in to restore order or to bring about something for a "higher cause" then just surviving so although you might be happy to see someone you can't just approach them and say "hi guys" less you meet your doom if you are going to meet up with someone it would have to be on your terms if you are going to survive

in other words there will be conflict and a lot of it after an apocalypse it will hardly be a "small part" of the world

JCatano
03-22-2010, 02:47 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


Because that system destroys the dynamics. How am I supposed to keep you from supplying your Tribe with gear if you never turn on your PvP flag?
This is the first good argument i read about FFA PvP.


How am I supposed to conquer your town if you all refuse to go to war by keeping your safe-flag on and saying "Neener neener!". It would undermine the entire game. Conflict is a large part of the game. That's why there is open-pvp, tribe wars, allies, conquering of areas, etc. I love to explore, craft, etc., too... But I also love meaningful PvP.

I'm not sure about this. I think conflict should be an interesting, but small part of the game. To be honest if I was a real survivor after an apocalyps, I would be very happy to find other survivors, and the natural way would be to work together and establish our life again. And about sieges...towns will be safe areas during Prelude, and its not decided yet how that will work after Prelude.

With all due respect, take those rose-colored glasses off. The "Prelude" is obviously a sort of beta/stress test stage whether they admit it or not. I'm sure they do want a tight community, but this game has had no large stress testing done at all. That's why they are going to let people in by stages. That tactic sounds familiar, doesn't it (Beta)?

It's all very controlled, so testing is obviously going to be a big part of Predule. We'll have to pay for it, unfortunately, but a few particular MMOs started the pre-access/paid beta rage, so it is what it is. I guess you can't blame a small independent team, though.

And we already know how the PvP system will work throughout the game:

PVP is open, but it has severe consequences. - Xsyon

Players from enemy tribes at war can fight to the death with full looting (Potentially tribe leaders can come to a looting agreement for this as well). - Xsyon

Entire post in link:

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-features/232-conflict-death-consequences-and-decisions

Personally, I think the system has way too many layers to it. The devs need to simplify it.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 02:52 PM
necoo wrote:


after an apocalypse society would break down and there would be no law or government or order to protect you... the people that you meet would be more likely to strip you of everything you have then leave you for dead that is where tribes come in to restore order or to bring about something for a "higher cause" then just surviving so although you might be happy to see someone you can't just approach them and say "hi guys" less you meet your doom if you are going to meet up with someone it would have to be on your terms if you are going to survive

in other words there will be conflict and a lot of it after an apocalypse it will hardly be a "small part" of the world
I think we got too much of the Mad Max type movies...honestly, I have more faith in people...perhaps I'm just naiv. But I think its not only law what keeps people back from murdering...most of us simply don't have a criminal mind. Moral is more than law...its deep inside, you don't need anyone to force it on you. But this is more like philosophy and kind of off topic I guess :)

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 02:54 PM
Dominus wrote:


I need someone besides me, who can craft me my gear, build my house and cook me dinner when I come home from war all bloody and tired.

This really sounds like you wanted a carebear wife ;)

Dominus
03-22-2010, 02:54 PM
Jadzia wrote:

I'm not sure about this. I think conflict should be an interesting, but small part of the game. To be honest if I was a real survivor after an apocalyps, I would be very happy to find other survivors, and the natural way would be to work together and establish our life again. And about sieges...towns will be safe areas during Prelude, and its not decided yet how that will work after Prelude.
Then you're very gullible :)
I agree with Thomas Hobbes's "Leviathon" and it's view on human nature when they would be without a government and in a "state of nature".

In that state, each person would have a right, or license, to everything in the world. This inevitably leads to conflict, a "war of all against all".
We are not essentially ethical or "good" people. For Hobbes, ethics is only something that comes with politics, and politics is rooted in selfishness and the desire for self-preservation.
Men have a natural tendency to be selfish and will hurt anyone to get what they want. That is why the social contract(tribe) is formed, because of this continuous fear of death, that at any moment you could be killed.
Considering this is a post-apoc themed game and all :P
There's also quite a few movies that portray that nature.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 03:03 PM
JCatano wrote:


With all due respect, take those rose-colored glasses off. The "Prelude" is obviously a sort of beta/stress test stage whether they admit it or not. I'm sure they do want a tight community, but this game has had no large stress testing done at all. That's why they are going to let people in by stages. That tactic sounds familiar, doesn't it (Beta)?

It's all very controlled, so testing is obviously going to be a big part of Predule. We'll have to pay for it, unfortunately, but a few particular MMOs started the pre-access/paid beta rage, so it is what it is. I guess you can't blame a small independent team, though.

You might be right, though Xsyon and Virtus both insisted that Prelude is the launch, not any kind of Beta. I wouldn't mind to pay for a Beta if there is no server wipe after it :)



And we already know how the PvP system will work throughout the game:

PVP is open, but it has severe consequences. - Xsyon

Players from enemy tribes at war can fight to the death with full looting (Potentially tribe leaders can come to a looting agreement for this as well). - Xsyon

Entire post in link:

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-features/232-conflict-death-consequences-and-decisions

Personally, I think the system has way too many layers to it. The devs need to simplify it.
I agree, it sounds way too complicated, perhaps it works better in game, that looting agreement sounds kind of confusing in an FFA PvP system.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 03:10 PM
Dominus wrote:


Then you're very gullible :)
I'm probably naiv but not gullible ( if that word means what I think it does :P )

Dominus wrote:


I agree with Thomas Hobbes's "Leviathon" and it's view on human nature when they would be without a government and in a "state of nature".

In that state, each person would have a right, or license, to everything in the world. This inevitably leads to conflict, a "war of all against all".
We are not essentially ethical or "good" people. For Hobbes, ethics is only something that comes with politics, and politics is rooted in selfishness and the desire for self-preservation.
Men have a natural tendency to be selfish and will hurt anyone to get what they want. That is why the social contract(tribe) is formed, because of this continuous fear of death, that at any moment you could be killed.
Considering this is a post-apoc themed game and all :P
There's also quite a few movies that portray that nature.
I hope you are wrong...and lets hope we never have to test it :)

necoo
03-22-2010, 03:13 PM
Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:


after an apocalypse society would break down and there would be no law or government or order to protect you... the people that you meet would be more likely to strip you of everything you have then leave you for dead that is where tribes come in to restore order or to bring about something for a "higher cause" then just surviving so although you might be happy to see someone you can't just approach them and say "hi guys" less you meet your doom if you are going to meet up with someone it would have to be on your terms if you are going to survive

in other words there will be conflict and a lot of it after an apocalypse it will hardly be a "small part" of the world
I think we got too much of the Mad Max type movies...honestly, I have more faith in people...perhaps I'm just naiv. But I think its not only law what keeps people back from murdering...most of us simply don't have a criminal mind. Moral is more than law...its deep inside, you don't need anyone to force it on you. But this is more like philosophy and kind of off topic I guess :)

you are vary naive humans are not as pure as you might like to think... hell i would like to think that humans are lovie lovie to each other that there is no war and never was and all of those things but these are foolish ideas... it is in our nature to be mean competition is in our blood... think of the gladiators of Rome or perhaps of modern day all the blood and gore movies and then boxing among other manly man sports then the less hostile foot ball, basket ball, hockey, and soccer constant competition in all things such is the world not all of us wish for the well being of others

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 03:19 PM
necoo wrote:


you are vary naive humans are not as pure as you might like to think... hell i would like to think that humans are lovie lovie to each other that there is no war and never was and all of those things but these are foolish ideas... it is in our nature to be mean competition is in our blood... think of the gladiators of Rome or perhaps of modern day all the blood and gore movies and then boxing among other manly man sports then the less hostile foot ball, basket ball, hockey, and soccer constant competition in all things such is the world not all of us wish for the well being of others
You are very right, you listed a man's nature pretty well...so if we want a better world, more power to women !!!

jk, don't jump on me lol :P

necoo
03-22-2010, 03:24 PM
Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:


you are vary naive humans are not as pure as you might like to think... hell i would like to think that humans are lovie lovie to each other that there is no war and never was and all of those things but these are foolish ideas... it is in our nature to be mean competition is in our blood... think of the gladiators of Rome or perhaps of modern day all the blood and gore movies and then boxing among other manly man sports then the less hostile foot ball, basket ball, hockey, and soccer constant competition in all things such is the world not all of us wish for the well being of others
You are very right, you listed a man's nature pretty well...so if we want a better world, more power to women !!!

jk, don't jump on me lol :P

lol but don't think that women are blameless either you the term "cat fights" and then the women that enter politics can be pretty aggressive there too

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 03:28 PM
necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:


you are vary naive humans are not as pure as you might like to think... hell i would like to think that humans are lovie lovie to each other that there is no war and never was and all of those things but these are foolish ideas... it is in our nature to be mean competition is in our blood... think of the gladiators of Rome or perhaps of modern day all the blood and gore movies and then boxing among other manly man sports then the less hostile foot ball, basket ball, hockey, and soccer constant competition in all things such is the world not all of us wish for the well being of others
You are very right, you listed a man's nature pretty well...so if we want a better world, more power to women !!!

jk, don't jump on me lol :P

lol but don't think that women are blameless either you the term "cat fights" and then the women that enter politics can be pretty aggressive there too
Yeah thats true, I think the women who are attracted to politics have a kind of mannish soul, competitive and agressive, or they became like that in that environment ? I don't know, but its sad both ways.

Picumnus
03-22-2010, 03:35 PM
Sorry this is so long, I got carried away by the desire to avoid working :)

Let me start off by saying I tend towards the carebear style of game... I am not opposed to PvP but HATE gankers/griefers.

PvP should be driven by a significant dispute or a "higher purpose". That may be dispute over a land, a resource, a route of travel, or whatever. PvP can also be driven by the need to capture resources (ie., pirates)but those who choose this method for "gathering" resources should, eventually, face the same consequences as all pirates do... the law.

Keeping in mind that this is a post-apocalyptic game it is not responsible to have firmly established rules or laws early in the game and these need to be shaped by us, the players. One way this can be done by the carebears and carebear protectors is through large tribes or alliances of tribes. So that when the pirates start being a problem in an area they are quickly and harshly dealt with by these groups of protectors. Overtime, these groups of carebear protectors should become the law enforcement branch of our society, geared and cared for by those of us who need/want their protection.

It is also my hope that as the game evolves their will be penalty systems in place, which have been created by the players, to reduce the amount of crime (ie., pirates, PKers, griefers, etc). This could include stronger (much stronger imo) for repeat offenders (this would be controlled by developers settings and should probably be started early if it is the plan) or perhaps player driven punishments like prisons or jails... potentially including such things as the death penalty.

So imagine this... you a neutral/good tribe and as part of a larger alliance you work together to build and guard a prison. Then when "red" toons are killed/knocked out by the "carebear protectors" (= law enforcement) the red toon is place in prison for some amount of time. The amount of time should be based upon some established law (again established by the players... and since red toons can't really vote without being killed/arrested if recognized, their voice of lawlessness is lessened). With each time the "red toon" is imprisoned, the length of the imprisonment should increase, but only if "crimes" have been committed since previous arrests.

This in theory would represent the evolution of a legal system with penalties for those who wiling break the law. In the beginning this could simply be a bounty system where "red toons" are hunted for money/resources... over time it will hopefully evolve with laws and prisons.

Another issue is the size of the "red" tribes... if they are substantially more red players than neutral or good than the system is doomed to begin with, the law will never have a chance. So with that in mind, there should be a natural (developer specified) limit to the maximum size of the evil tribes. Furthermore, evil tribes should not be able to establish alliances either (or at least not for very long) with each other. Lets face it, no two warlords really work together for that long in RL, so why would they in a game. Look at gangs... most violence is gang on gang and in parallel if the law of the neutral/good punish those who are red when they are caught then wouldn't red on red violence be safer... sure they might kill you but they are much less likely to have established prisons so the long-term punishment is less.

Lastly, red tribes should be able to bust their red mates out of the prisons, which is why it is important that prisons we well guarded, both from the toons inside and the tribal mates outside trying to free their comrades.

Ok... sadly back to work, again, if you made it this far sorry for the long post.

JCatano
03-22-2010, 03:40 PM
The prison idea will never, ever work. I will never pay to spend my gametime in prison, unless you want to spend your gametime being a hostage. :)

It's just an unrealistic mechanic towards a "red".

PANZERBUNNY
03-22-2010, 03:44 PM
Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


Or they would have 2 servers where everyone plays the game in the way they like ?

Everyone gets to play the game they like too. Just so happens that people enjoy running along and smacking you over the head with their stone club.

I'm sorry, but this game has been described as having PVP and an open sandbox environment.
Splitting the server would be stupid and detrimental to the game. Stop being selfish and thinking about your own playstyle while letting everyone elses die.

Everything will have its place in the game.
Read the feature list of the game on the site, it says NOTHING about PvP. And excuse me, how can my selfish playstyle destroys others' ?If its only me who want to build and play in peace then obviously I'll be alone on the PVE server...not destroying your PVP game. If the majority of the players go to the PVE server that means you were the selfish one...you wanted to use other players as the source of your own fun, and you were the one who ignored they didn't want to take part of it.
And about having server split :

Xsyon wrote:

Re: Server Selection? 3 Weeks, 5 Days ago
We will have one server at start.

We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment.

"If they have enough players". which they wont.

If they split the servers at start with such a small amount of people, its like shooting themselves in the foot with a cannon.
Its their choice though.

Honestly, you need to be playing offline games because a game about mutants, waring tribes and struggling to survive seems to be a little TOO dangerous for your playstyles.

Lets think "Book of Eli" here.

The first town you see him come across is full of murderers and cut throats.
At the end you see there is a light at the end of the tunnel because some people actually want to rebuild civilisation. Others want it built in their image.(hence the rampant murder and thievery.

Oh and for the record, I've never stated what playstyle I prefer so dont jump to conslusions about what I'm after in this game. I've never been a rabid pker and prefer crafting and gathering aswell.

Unlike some people I can look at the game for what it is and pursue my own intentions without stomping my foot because I think I should be able to skin a rabbit without someone whacking me over the head. (because I want to do it in "peace". QQ)

necoo
03-22-2010, 03:48 PM
Picumnus wrote:

Sorry this is so long, I got carried away by the desire to avoid working :)

Let me start off by saying I tend towards the carebear style of game... I am not opposed to PvP but HATE gankers/griefers.

PvP should be driven by a significant dispute or a "higher purpose". That may be dispute over a land, a resource, a route of travel, or whatever. PvP can also be driven by the need to capture resources (ie., pirates)but those who choose this method for "gathering" resources should, eventually, face the same consequences as all pirates do... the law.

Keeping in mind that this is a post-apocalyptic game it is not responsible to have firmly established rules or laws early in the game and these need to be shaped by us, the players. One way this can be done by the carebears and carebear protectors is through large tribes or alliances of tribes. So that when the pirates start being a problem in an area they are quickly and harshly dealt with by these groups of protectors. Overtime, these groups of carebear protectors should become the law enforcement branch of our society, geared and cared for by those of us who need/want their protection.

It is also my hope that as the game evolves their will be penalty systems in place, which have been created by the players, to reduce the amount of crime (ie., pirates, PKers, griefers, etc). This could include stronger (much stronger imo) for repeat offenders (this would be controlled by developers settings and should probably be started early if it is the plan) or perhaps player driven punishments like prisons or jails... potentially including such things as the death penalty.

So imagine this... you a neutral/good tribe and as part of a larger alliance you work together to build and guard a prison. Then when "red" toons are killed/knocked out by the "carebear protectors" (= law enforcement) the red toon is place in prison for some amount of time. The amount of time should be based upon some established law (again established by the players... and since red toons can't really vote without being killed/arrested if recognized, their voice of lawlessness is lessened). With each time the "red toon" is imprisoned, the length of the imprisonment should increase, but only if "crimes" have been committed since previous arrests.

This in theory would represent the evolution of a legal system with penalties for those who wiling break the law. In the beginning this could simply be a bounty system where "red toons" are hunted for money/resources... over time it will hopefully evolve with laws and prisons.

Another issue is the size of the "red" tribes... if they are substantially more red players than neutral or good than the system is doomed to begin with, the law will never have a chance. So with that in mind, there should be a natural (developer specified) limit to the maximum size of the evil tribes. Furthermore, evil tribes should not be able to establish alliances either (or at least not for very long) with each other. Lets face it, no two warlords really work together for that long in RL, so why would they in a game. Look at gangs... most violence is gang on gang and in parallel if the law of the neutral/good punish those who are red when they are caught then wouldn't red on red violence be safer... sure they might kill you but they are much less likely to have established prisons so the long-term punishment is less.

Lastly, red tribes should be able to bust their red mates out of the prisons, which is why it is important that prisons we well guarded, both from the toons inside and the tribal mates outside trying to free their comrades.

Ok... sadly back to work, again, if you made it this far sorry for the long post.

this is a fairly good idea however somethings must be added to it for this to work and that is... the carebear guy would have to drag the criminal all the way to the prison and the unconscious guy can still gain consciousness wile you are doing so... it would be rather annoying if i respawned in the prison to say the least and it would allow my buddies to help me out in case i fall unconscious... further more this is a game of freedom any and all consequences must only happen by involving other players and not be completely tied into the game mechanics, for example the game integrates reputation as a consequence however this reputation involves the players around you, furthermore the game mechanics must not be made to protect only the carebear guys but also the pkers

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 04:12 PM
The jail idea sounds interesting, I'd love to see epic battles around the jail as the evil tribe try to rescue their jailed members. That would be fun, and meaningful PvP. There should be some feature though, what could keep the jailed player entertained, since you can't expect a paying customer to spend his time in jail being bored :) I don't know , perhaps digging tunnels and finding treasure, or pickpocketing the jail guard for the cellkey...

Jeopardy
03-22-2010, 05:19 PM
Please forgive me if I mixed up the who quoted what statement. I do believe they are correct.


Jadzia wrote:
Or they would have 2 servers where everyone plays the game in the way they like ?


Xsyon wrote:

Re: Server Selection? 3 Weeks, 5 Days ago
We will have one server at start.

We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment.[/b]


Panzerbunny wrote:

"If they have enough players". which they wont.

Oh and for the record, I've never stated what playstyle I prefer so dont jump to conslusions about what I'm after in this game. I've never been a rabid pker and prefer crafting and gathering as well.


They could have enough players. I have spoken to quite a few that stated they wouldn't even look at this game based on the PvP. While there many not be millions of players (like WoW) there are thousands of players that play games that have no PvP and are quite content. Lots of which are looking for something new and fresh to play.

As I stated early on, there are games that do just fine without an ounce of PvP. They still have struggles, but it's based on other factors, not just the simple sword. After all, the mind is mightier than the sword...and I have to say, some of the politics that can happen would blow your mind. So, it's by NO MEANS boring to play those style games.

I am also not against PvP. But I AM against gankfests, griefing and PK.

The ONLY players to ever benefit in a PK game, are the PK'ers. It becomes the type of game that ONLY that type of player show up to play (over time). And from lots of experience, it's not those type of of players that stick with games either. They get bored and move on. Which leaves the developer without income.

I think this game has a solid basis to be a truly unique and have a solid community. But the community has to start right here...in these conversations.

We need to work through this, not fight through it. We are going to disagree, but we need to find something that would work. Otherwise, this game will be very one-sided and those wanting new gear might find themselves truly struggling to find anyone who cares to help.

I have played many games where the players say over and over, don't worry...we will protect you so you can gather or create, or whatever. Hmmm, well that lasts a very short time. You can just feel the *yawns* as they stand there. Even if they do get attacked, it's like blah to them. It just doesn't give them the excitement they thrive for...even though it does give them the gear.

It's a certain style of play. It's like asking a roleplayer to start playing an FPS game. They can, and do, but if it's not their thing, they won't stay long.

The question really is...how many do we have of each type of player? Crafters? Harvesters? PK'ers? Builders? Warriors (protectors of towns)? Etc...

And out of those, how many are serious about the game and have already pre-paid?

Personally, I would like a non-pk environment. OR a consensual PvP environment. I want to craft, build and grow things. I don't want to throw my keyboard across the room after I lose all I have done.

The mindset of a PK player is I will kill what I want, when I want.
So, the PK players get what they want? What about what I want...I do NOT want to die unless I choose to play that way. I don't want to spin my wheels trying to collect or build the same thing over and over cause I was killed.

I HAVE LOSS. I lose hours of work. What does the PK player lose? In most games, nothing...or in some games...time and a piece of gear.

The LOSS does not balance.

Till it does, no game will keep either type of player for long.

A choice of server would matter to me. Plus, there are other players reading this right now that want a choice as well.

I would love it if this game could make all sides happy, but that's unlikely to be done, on one server. But, it IS possible. One step at a time.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 05:32 PM
Well put. The interesting thing is that not any non-PvP player is scared of server split...but the PvP players get upset even if we mention it. Where is their confidence that they are the majority of the playerbase ? I'd like 1 server without forced PvP...if its not possible for any reason, the next best choice is a PVE only server.

PANZERBUNNY
03-22-2010, 05:48 PM
Jeopardy wrote:

Please forgive me if I mixed up the who quoted what statement. I do believe they are correct.


Jadzia wrote:
Or they would have 2 servers where everyone plays the game in the way they like ?


Xsyon wrote:

Re: Server Selection? 3 Weeks, 5 Days ago
We will have one server at start.

We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment.[/b]


Panzerbunny wrote:

"If they have enough players". which they wont.

Oh and for the record, I've never stated what playstyle I prefer so dont jump to conslusions about what I'm after in this game. I've never been a rabid pker and prefer crafting and gathering as well.


They could have enough players. I have spoken to quite a few that stated they wouldn't even look at this game based on the PvP. While there many not be millions of players (like WoW) there are thousands of players that play games that have no PvP and are quite content. Lots of which are looking for something new and fresh to play.

As I stated early on, there are games that do just fine without an ounce of PvP. They still have struggles, but it's based on other factors, not just the simple sword. After all, the mind is mightier than the sword...and I have to say, some of the politics that can happen would blow your mind. So, it's by NO MEANS boring to play those style games.

I am also not against PvP. But I AM against gankfests, griefing and PK.

The ONLY players to ever benefit in a PK game, are the PK'ers. It becomes the type of game that ONLY that type of player show up to play (over time). And from lots of experience, it's not those type of of players that stick with games either. They get bored and move on. Which leaves the developer without income.

I think this game has a solid basis to be a truly unique and have a solid community. But the community has to start right here...in these conversations.

We need to work through this, not fight through it. We are going to disagree, but we need to find something that would work. Otherwise, this game will be very one-sided and those wanting new gear might find themselves truly struggling to find anyone who cares to help.

I have played many games where the players say over and over, don't worry...we will protect you so you can gather or create, or whatever. Hmmm, well that lasts a very short time. You can just feel the *yawns* as they stand there. Even if they do get attacked, it's like blah to them. It just doesn't give them the excitement they thrive for...even though it does give them the gear.

It's a certain style of play. It's like asking a roleplayer to start playing an FPS game. They can, and do, but if it's not their thing, they won't stay long.

The question really is...how many do we have of each type of player? Crafters? Harvesters? PK'ers? Builders? Warriors (protectors of towns)? Etc...

And out of those, how many are serious about the game and have already pre-paid?

Personally, I would like a non-pk environment. OR a consensual PvP environment. I want to craft, build and grow things. I don't want to throw my keyboard across the room after I lose all I have done.

The mindset of a PK player is I will kill what I want, when I want.
So, the PK players get what they want? What about what I want...I do NOT want to die unless I choose to play that way. I don't want to spin my wheels trying to collect or build the same thing over and over cause I was killed.

I HAVE LOSS. I lose hours of work. What does the PK player lose? In most games, nothing...or in some games...time and a piece of gear.

The LOSS does not balance.

Till it does, no game will keep either type of player for long.

A choice of server would matter to me. Plus, there are other players reading this right now that want a choice as well.

I would love it if this game could make all sides happy, but that's unlikely to be done, on one server. But, it IS possible. One step at a time.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Its shortsighted and naive to think that "everything" you've worked for can be destroyed. They've even stated that when you Pk someone, you have the choice to take an item from them etc. I doubt this will be a full loot system, though it MAY have full loot in certain circumstances?(All out war etc)

Frankly, in a game where they've said that perma death and stat loss exist, complaining that someone may bash you over the head every now and then is a SMALL SMALL issue.

again, this is a game where teamwork will pay off. If you want to solo whatever you choose, it will be more difficult. Having territory that is guarded by the members of your tribe and other allies helps protect you from pkers.

Consequence gaming is on the rise. Wheres the joy in gaining something without the possibility of loss? Wheres the sense of achievement?

Picumnus
03-22-2010, 05:57 PM
necoo wrote:


this is a fairly good idea however somethings must be added to it for this to work and that is... the carebear guy would have to drag the criminal all the way to the prison and the unconscious guy can still gain consciousness wile you are doing so... it would be rather annoying if i respawned in the prison to say the least and it would allow my buddies to help me out in case i fall unconscious... further more this is a game of freedom any and all consequences must only happen by involving other players and not be completely tied into the game mechanics, for example the game integrates reputation as a consequence however this reputation involves the players around you, furthermore the game mechanics must not be made to protect only the carebear guys but also the pkers

I am a little confused on why we need to protect the PKers more than having a legal system with appeals, etc. In RL no one says, "I'm sorry we got to protect the murders.... it is tough being a murder and no one ever looks out for them". The point is, we are developing a society and jI can't see how a society can function if crime (especially PKing) is let unpunished. There must be a MUCH stiffer punishment for PKer's went caught/killed than the regular joeblow or else why doesn't everyone PK... There would be no builders, no crafters, no gathers... wait if that were the case, what are we fighting for??? After all there would be nothing to steal from the victim :).

As far as your buddies rescuing you, on the way to the prison, I could see this being the case but it would have to be a fairly quick response... and how would you contact them? After all, you only get one phone call :) I don't think that
you should be allowed to spam your factions channel with where you are or any of that... but I can see gaining consciousness and shouting for help etc. I agree though that you should not get knocked out and then wake up in prison... but you shouldn't have forever and a day to actually "call" for help either.

Jadzia did point out one real problem... what do the criminals do in jail... no one wants to pay real money to have their toon unplayable for X period of time. Maybe just like in real jails you can work on your strengt, stamina, etc so that you toon is still "growing" while in jail. I could also see prison riots where groups of prisons try to escape. or as he/she pointed out, try to dig tunnels. Also, the carebears would have to provide food (if such a think exist in the game, I guess/think it does?) for the prisoners which puts a burden on the carebears for capturing people. Much like taxes for prison put a burden on us in RL.

Bottom line... there ultimately has to been a long term decrease in the PKing or else I cannot see how an society that is stable in the mid- to long term can exist.

JCatano
03-22-2010, 06:00 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Well put. The interesting thing is that not any non-PvP player is scared of server split...but the PvP players get upset even if we mention it. Where is their confidence that they are the majority of the playerbase ? I'd like 1 server without forced PvP...if its not possible for any reason, the next best choice is a PVE only server.

I don't care about a server-split, but you are not going to get one with a very small playerbase. Xsyon will be small, especially from the start.

- Deploying the servers. This can also be millions of dollars, believe it or not. For one thing, the boxes needed tend to be pricier than the kind you probably have at home, because you want lots of redundancy, the ability to hot-swap parts out, all that jazz. You're writing to disk constantly, you need a hefty RAID array, tape backups, etc. - Raph Koster (Lead Developer/Creative Director UO/EQ/SWG)

Obviously, Xsyon won't be investing millions, but it's not going to be cheap, unless they are going to run it out of someone's basement. Infrastructure is not cheap and neither are solution companies that host infrastructure plans. Only way you're going to get a split is if Xsyon gets thousands and thousands of subscriptions or a hefty investor that is willing to take a risk.

I think you may need to simply understand that PvP is going to be part of your game experience, unless they can afford a PvE server. It's not optional or mutual on the "normal" server.

JCatano
03-22-2010, 06:03 PM
Picumnus wrote:

necoo wrote:


this is a fairly good idea however somethings must be added to it for this to work and that is... the carebear guy would have to drag the criminal all the way to the prison and the unconscious guy can still gain consciousness wile you are doing so... it would be rather annoying if i respawned in the prison to say the least and it would allow my buddies to help me out in case i fall unconscious... further more this is a game of freedom any and all consequences must only happen by involving other players and not be completely tied into the game mechanics, for example the game integrates reputation as a consequence however this reputation involves the players around you, furthermore the game mechanics must not be made to protect only the carebear guys but also the pkers

I am a little confused on why we need to protect the PKers more than having a legal system with appeals, etc. In RL no one says, "I'm sorry we got to protect the murders.... it is tough being a murder and no one ever looks out for them". The point is, we are developing a society and jI can't see how a society can function if crime (especially PKing) is let unpunished. There must be a MUCH stiffer punishment for PKer's went caught/killed than the regular joeblow or else why doesn't everyone PK... There would be no builders, no crafters, no gathers... wait if that were the case, what are we fighting for??? After all there would be nothing to steal from the victim :).

As far as your buddies rescuing you, on the way to the prison, I could see this being the case but it would have to be a fairly quick response... and how would you contact them? After all, you only get one phone call :) I don't think that
you should be allowed to spam your factions channel with where you are or any of that... but I can see gaining consciousness and shouting for help etc. I agree though that you should not get knocked out and then wake up in prison... but you shouldn't have forever and a day to actually "call" for help either.

Jadzia did point out one real problem... what do the criminals do in jail... no one wants to pay real money to have their toon unplayable for X period of time. Maybe just like in real jails you can work on your strengt, stamina, etc so that you toon is still "growing" while in jail. I could also see prison riots where groups of prisons try to escape. or as he/she pointed out, try to dig tunnels. Also, the carebears would have to provide food (if such a think exist in the game, I guess/think it does?) for the prisoners which puts a burden on the carebears for capturing people. Much like taxes for prison put a burden on us in RL.

Bottom line... there ultimately has to been a long term decrease in the PKing or else I cannot see how an society that is stable in the mid- to long term can exist.

Hyperbole in bold. If that was true, nobody in DF would craft/build/gather, but many do (just about everyone, actually).

Picumnus
03-22-2010, 06:07 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Its shortsighted and naive to think that "everything" you've worked for can be destroyed. They've even stated that when you Pk someone, you have the choice to take an item from them etc. I doubt this will be a full loot system, though it MAY have full loot in certain circumstances?(All out war etc)

Frankly, in a game where they've said that perma death and stat loss exist, complaining that someone may bash you over the head every now and then is a SMALL SMALL issue.

again, this is a game where teamwork will pay off. If you want to solo whatever you choose, it will be more difficult. Having territory that is guarded by the members of your tribe and other allies helps protect you from pkers.

Consequence gaming is on the rise. Wheres the joy in gaining something without the possibility of loss? Wheres the sense of achievement?

I agree that there must be the possibility of losing the things we have been working for (ie., or towns, resources, etc) but this should be done largely through wars and large scale invasions. I will even admit that a "criminal element" that steals items from individuals should exist (even be expected) but those that choose that way of life should face HARSH (IMO almost excessive) penalties. Otherwise, what are they risking by stealing instead of building?

Also, I believe that perma deaths and so forth was something to expect in the distant future, so what are the PKers, risking ATM? What if, those who are caught PKing lose half of everything in their bank, and everything on them if caught? After all, if a bank robber is caught after robbing 5 banks, we don't let him keep the spoils of the first 4. We take all of that plus a significant period of his life.

Picumnus
03-22-2010, 06:11 PM
JCatano wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

necoo wrote:


this is a fairly good idea however somethings must be added to it for this to work and that is... the carebear guy would have to drag the criminal all the way to the prison and the unconscious guy can still gain consciousness wile you are doing so... it would be rather annoying if i respawned in the prison to say the least and it would allow my buddies to help me out in case i fall unconscious... further more this is a game of freedom any and all consequences must only happen by involving other players and not be completely tied into the game mechanics, for example the game integrates reputation as a consequence however this reputation involves the players around you, furthermore the game mechanics must not be made to protect only the carebear guys but also the pkers

I am a little confused on why we need to protect the PKers more than having a legal system with appeals, etc. In RL no one says, "I'm sorry we got to protect the murders.... it is tough being a murder and no one ever looks out for them". The point is, we are developing a society and jI can't see how a society can function if crime (especially PKing) is let unpunished. There must be a MUCH stiffer punishment for PKer's went caught/killed than the regular joeblow or else why doesn't everyone PK... There would be no builders, no crafters, no gathers... wait if that were the case, what are we fighting for??? After all there would be nothing to steal from the victim :).

As far as your buddies rescuing you, on the way to the prison, I could see this being the case but it would have to be a fairly quick response... and how would you contact them? After all, you only get one phone call :) I don't think that
you should be allowed to spam your factions channel with where you are or any of that... but I can see gaining consciousness and shouting for help etc. I agree though that you should not get knocked out and then wake up in prison... but you shouldn't have forever and a day to actually "call" for help either.

Jadzia did point out one real problem... what do the criminals do in jail... no one wants to pay real money to have their toon unplayable for X period of time. Maybe just like in real jails you can work on your strengt, stamina, etc so that you toon is still "growing" while in jail. I could also see prison riots where groups of prisons try to escape. or as he/she pointed out, try to dig tunnels. Also, the carebears would have to provide food (if such a think exist in the game, I guess/think it does?) for the prisoners which puts a burden on the carebears for capturing people. Much like taxes for prison put a burden on us in RL.

Bottom line... there ultimately has to been a long term decrease in the PKing or else I cannot see how an society that is stable in the mid- to long term can exist.

Hyperbole in bold. If that was true, nobody in DF would craft/build/gather, but many do (just about everyone, actually).

Admittedly a bit of an exaggeration but I think the point I was trying to make still stands... there must be penalties if caught PKing or else there is no balance. At least that is the way I look at it.

JCatano
03-22-2010, 06:14 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:
Its shortsighted and naive to think that "everything" you've worked for can be destroyed. They've even stated that when you Pk someone, you have the choice to take an item from them etc. I doubt this will be a full loot system, though it MAY have full loot in certain circumstances?(All out war etc)

Frankly, in a game where they've said that perma death and stat loss exist, complaining that someone may bash you over the head every now and then is a SMALL SMALL issue.

again, this is a game where teamwork will pay off. If you want to solo whatever you choose, it will be more difficult. Having territory that is guarded by the members of your tribe and other allies helps protect you from pkers.

Consequence gaming is on the rise. Wheres the joy in gaining something without the possibility of loss? Wheres the sense of achievement?

"Players from an evil tribe are free to loot and pillage and will gain reputation within their own tribe for doing so, but they will also be vulnerable to attacks from all players who will be able to attack evil players without negative consequences."
---
"Players from enemy tribes at war can fight to the death with full looting (Potentially tribe leaders can come to a looting agreement for this as well)."

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-features/232-conflict-death-consequences-and-decisions

JCatano
03-22-2010, 06:16 PM
Picumnus wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Picumnus wrote:

necoo wrote:


this is a fairly good idea however somethings must be added to it for this to work and that is... the carebear guy would have to drag the criminal all the way to the prison and the unconscious guy can still gain consciousness wile you are doing so... it would be rather annoying if i respawned in the prison to say the least and it would allow my buddies to help me out in case i fall unconscious... further more this is a game of freedom any and all consequences must only happen by involving other players and not be completely tied into the game mechanics, for example the game integrates reputation as a consequence however this reputation involves the players around you, furthermore the game mechanics must not be made to protect only the carebear guys but also the pkers

I am a little confused on why we need to protect the PKers more than having a legal system with appeals, etc. In RL no one says, "I'm sorry we got to protect the murders.... it is tough being a murder and no one ever looks out for them". The point is, we are developing a society and jI can't see how a society can function if crime (especially PKing) is let unpunished. There must be a MUCH stiffer punishment for PKer's went caught/killed than the regular joeblow or else why doesn't everyone PK... There would be no builders, no crafters, no gathers... wait if that were the case, what are we fighting for??? After all there would be nothing to steal from the victim :).

As far as your buddies rescuing you, on the way to the prison, I could see this being the case but it would have to be a fairly quick response... and how would you contact them? After all, you only get one phone call :) I don't think that
you should be allowed to spam your factions channel with where you are or any of that... but I can see gaining consciousness and shouting for help etc. I agree though that you should not get knocked out and then wake up in prison... but you shouldn't have forever and a day to actually "call" for help either.

Jadzia did point out one real problem... what do the criminals do in jail... no one wants to pay real money to have their toon unplayable for X period of time. Maybe just like in real jails you can work on your strengt, stamina, etc so that you toon is still "growing" while in jail. I could also see prison riots where groups of prisons try to escape. or as he/she pointed out, try to dig tunnels. Also, the carebears would have to provide food (if such a think exist in the game, I guess/think it does?) for the prisoners which puts a burden on the carebears for capturing people. Much like taxes for prison put a burden on us in RL.

Bottom line... there ultimately has to been a long term decrease in the PKing or else I cannot see how an society that is stable in the mid- to long term can exist.

Hyperbole in bold. If that was true, nobody in DF would craft/build/gather, but many do (just about everyone, actually).

Admittedly a bit of an exaggeration but I think the point I was trying to make still stands... there must be penalties if caught PKing or else there is no balance. At least that is the way I look at it.

Of course, but most of the suggestions I've seen on here are simply outrageous. "Red" doesn't always mean "immature griefer". There are just as many dolts who play as "blue". There has to be balance along the entire spectrum.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 06:21 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:



Its shortsighted and naive to think that "everything" you've worked for can be destroyed.
I guess he thought of loosing a town in siege.


They've even stated that when you Pk someone, you have the choice to take an item from them etc. I doubt this will be a full loot system, though it MAY have full loot in certain circumstances?(All out war etc)

Frankly, in a game where they've said that perma death and stat loss exist, complaining that someone may bash you over the head every now and then is a SMALL SMALL issue.
perma death is optional, Xsyon stated it, and did you read any official announcement about stat loss ? or you mean skill decay ?



again, this is a game where teamwork will pay off. If you want to solo whatever you choose, it will be more difficult. Having territory that is guarded by the members of your tribe and other allies helps protect you from pkers.

Consequence gaming is on the rise. Wheres the joy in gaining something without the possibility of loss? Wheres the sense of achievement?
I get the sense of achievement from reaching the goals I've set for myself. The possibility of loosing what I've worked for doesn't add anything for my joy or game experience, its simply irritating. I understand it gives bonus to your gameplay, but try to see the game from others' point of view...we are different people with different tastes.

And just for your information PvP is not dangerous or exciting or thrilling to me...its boring and bugging. Thats why i don't want to be forced to do it. Would you like to be forced to play hide and seek in a game with bored kids ? Wouldn't you cry that its boring to you and you want to do what you really like ?

JCatano
03-22-2010, 06:27 PM
Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:



Its shortsighted and naive to think that "everything" you've worked for can be destroyed.
I guess he thought of loosing a town in siege.


They've even stated that when you Pk someone, you have the choice to take an item from them etc. I doubt this will be a full loot system, though it MAY have full loot in certain circumstances?(All out war etc)

Frankly, in a game where they've said that perma death and stat loss exist, complaining that someone may bash you over the head every now and then is a SMALL SMALL issue.
perma death is optional, Xsyon stated it, and did you read any official announcement about stat loss ? or you mean skill decay ?



again, this is a game where teamwork will pay off. If you want to solo whatever you choose, it will be more difficult. Having territory that is guarded by the members of your tribe and other allies helps protect you from pkers.

Consequence gaming is on the rise. Wheres the joy in gaining something without the possibility of loss? Wheres the sense of achievement?
I get the sense of achievement from reaching the goals I've set for myself. The possibility of loosing what I've worked for doesn't add anything for my joy or game experience, its simply irritating. I understand it gives bonus to your gameplay, but try to see the game from others' point of view...we are different people with different tastes.

And just for your information PvP is not dangerous or exciting or thrilling to me...its boring and bugging. Thats why i don't want to be forced to do it. Would you like to be forced to play hide and seek in a game with bored kids ? Wouldn't you cry that its boring to you and you want to do what you really like ?

Why are you trying to change something that is obviously a fundamental choice with regard to Xsyon? I'm willing to bet the PvP system was one of the first mechanics thought of when the lead dev imagined the game.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 06:34 PM
JCatano wrote:


Why are you trying to change something that is obviously a fundamental choice with regard to Xsyon? I'm willing to bet the PvP system was one of the first mechanics thought of when the lead dev imagined the game.

Because its not fundamental. The PvP or town siege isn't mentioned on the feature list, if someone read that and buy the game probably will be very surprised with the open PvP system. And Xsyon said there might be another server with safer environment if there is a demand with enough players for that...how will he get to know there is a demand if we don't voice our opinion ?

necoo
03-22-2010, 06:35 PM
you ppl are quite irritating as what you want is just pure gain without any loss... without loss is there any point trying to gain something if there is no risk involved is there any point to continue to try... where is the point in that if all you do is build up and up and up will the tower really be able to hold such weight, would it not collapse. stop being so selfish if you want to gain something you must take the appropriate risk... less the purpose be lost

JCatano
03-22-2010, 06:39 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


Why are you trying to change something that is obviously a fundamental choice with regard to Xsyon? I'm willing to bet the PvP system was one of the first mechanics thought of when the lead dev imagined the game.

Because its not fundamental. The PvP or town siege isn't mentioned on the feature list, if someone read that and buy the game probably will be very surprised with the open PvP system. And Xsyon said there might be another server with safer environment if there is a demand with enough players for that...how will he get to know there is a demand if we don't voice our opinion ?

He made a long post about the PvP that I already posted a few times. I have no idea why it's not in the features, but the PvP is obviously open-PvP. That is definitely a fundamental design choice. It is probably the first decision you make since it affects so many mechanics.

As far as sieges not being in the features... My guess is that they don't even have the mechanics finished. Hence, my earlier statement about paid-beta. :P

I hope you get your PvE server. That would mean that Xsyon is doing well subscription-wise.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 06:40 PM
necoo wrote:

you ppl are quite irritating as what you want is just pure gain without any loss... without loss is there any point trying to gain something if there is no risk involved is there any point to continue to try... where is the point in that if all you do is build up and up and up will the tower really be able to hold such weight, would it not collapse. stop being so selfish if you want to gain something you must take the appropriate risk... less the purpose be lost
Honestly, I don't understand this selfish thing. Is it selfish if you work in real and you keep your salary and don't want thieves to steal it ? I don't want to cause any harm to any of the players...is that selfish ? If others want to steal what I've worked for their side seems to be selfish for me...

And I'm not trying to convince you that my playstyle is fun for you. Probably its not. You have the choice to play as you like, I'm not stopping you. Why do you want to stop me to play in the way I like ?

necoo
03-22-2010, 06:52 PM
Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:

you ppl are quite irritating as what you want is just pure gain without any loss... without loss is there any point trying to gain something if there is no risk involved is there any point to continue to try... where is the point in that if all you do is build up and up and up will the tower really be able to hold such weight, would it not collapse. stop being so selfish if you want to gain something you must take the appropriate risk... less the purpose be lost
Honestly, I don't understand this selfish thing. Is it selfish if you work in real and you keep your salary and don't want thieves to steal it ? I don't want to cause any harm to any of the players...is that selfish ? If others want to steal what I've worked for their side seems to be selfish for me...

And I'm not trying to convince you that my playstyle is fun for you. Probably its not. You have the choice to play as you like, I'm not stopping you. Why do you want to stop me to play in the way I like ?

you completely missed my point...
everytime you step out of your house for work you are taking a risk, there are those out there who would do you wrong for what you have, so why do you step out of your house... becuase you need money by any means you have at your disposal, why do you need money... to buy the food that feeds you and your family in order to live, and so you step outside and take the risk that someone out there might mug you or kill you or do unspeakable things to you... however the ppl who would do those things to you also need to make money to feed themselves and their family. and due to their circumstances the only way to make money for these things is to take money from whatever resources they have available and they take the risk that they might go to jail or worse.

what you want is to be able to get the money to get the food to feed yourself and your family without taking any risk... now that in and of itself isn't necessarily wrong however it is indeed unrealistic and so you are selfish in thinking that you can do these things without taking those risks

PANZERBUNNY
03-22-2010, 06:53 PM
Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:

you ppl are quite irritating as what you want is just pure gain without any loss... without loss is there any point trying to gain something if there is no risk involved is there any point to continue to try... where is the point in that if all you do is build up and up and up will the tower really be able to hold such weight, would it not collapse. stop being so selfish if you want to gain something you must take the appropriate risk... less the purpose be lost
Honestly, I don't understand this selfish thing. Is it selfish if you work in real and you keep your salary and don't want thieves to steal it ? I don't want to cause any harm to any of the players...is that selfish ? If others want to steal what I've worked for their side seems to be selfish for me...

And I'm not trying to convince you that my playstyle is fun for you. Probably its not. You have the choice to play as you like, I'm not stopping you. Why do you want to stop me to play in the way I like ?

Because the game is an "open concept game". We the players dictate the playing field, the political maneuvering and the towns/cities throughout the game world.

we build the world and we'll destroy it.(if it comes to that.)

I'm not trying to take away your fun from the game, I'm simply putting it out there that for this game to be open and truly evolve you'll have to take the lumps with the candy.
Whats that saying..something about cake and eating it too?

Jadzia it sounds like you want a full crafting and gathering system where you can help build a world without interference. Sorry to say, but that just isn't going to happen here. I'm even thinking that them "maybe" opening another server down the road for strictly PVE wont even happen. They'll have a hard time keeping everything else rolling.

Toss your lot in with a large tribe that can protect you etc and I'm sure open PVP etc wont effect you much.

Question: What would you do if we had to flag ourselves for PVP and another person comes along and starts griefing your spawn or knocking on your resource nodes while you are? What are your options? How do you protect the integrity of your gathering experience with NO way to deal with the "protected griefers/annoyances"?

Yours is only what you can claim with the length of your sword.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 07:13 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:


Because the game is an "open concept game". We the players dictate the playing field, the political maneuvering and the towns/cities throughout the game world.

we build the world and we'll destroy it.(if it comes to that.)

Thats your understanding about the game, but I'm not sure you are right. Xsyon's posts, the feature list and every official announcement shows that the developers' focus is not PvP, but world building, exploring, researching new technologies. But I really don't want to start another pointless fight on this, we obviously can't convince each others.


I'm not trying to take away your fun from the game, I'm simply putting it out there that for this game to be open and truly evolve you'll have to take the lumps with the candy.
Whats that saying..something about cake and eating it too?

Jadzia it sounds like you want a full crafting and gathering system where you can help build a world without interference. Sorry to say, but that just isn't going to happen here. I'm even thinking that them "maybe" opening another server down the road for strictly PVE wont even happen. They'll have a hard time keeping everything else rolling.

Toss your lot in with a large tribe that can protect you etc and I'm sure open PVP etc wont effect you much.

Question: What would you do if we had to flag ourselves for PVP and another person comes along and starts griefing your spawn or knocking on your resource nodes while you are? What are your options? How do you protect the integrity of your gathering experience with NO way to deal with the "protected griefers/annoyances"?

Yours is only what you can claim with the length of your sword.
I have played games with gathering, building and no FFA PVP. I've met the problem you mentioned a lot of times...and I can tell you you don't need a sword to reach your goals or to get your ore. Most of the times we became friends with those griefers...you underrate the power of diplomacy, humor, friendship. During 5 years of gaming I've met 1 player who weren't willing to listen.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

necoo
03-22-2010, 07:22 PM
Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:


Because the game is an "open concept game". We the players dictate the playing field, the political maneuvering and the towns/cities throughout the game world.

we build the world and we'll destroy it.(if it comes to that.)

Thats your understanding about the game, but I'm not sure you are right. Xsyon's posts, the feature list and every official announcement shows that the developers' focus is not PvP, but world building, exploring, researching new technologies. But I really don't want to start another pointless fight on this, we obviously can't convince each others.


I'm not trying to take away your fun from the game, I'm simply putting it out there that for this game to be open and truly evolve you'll have to take the lumps with the candy.
Whats that saying..something about cake and eating it too?

Jadzia it sounds like you want a full crafting and gathering system where you can help build a world without interference. Sorry to say, but that just isn't going to happen here. I'm even thinking that them "maybe" opening another server down the road for strictly PVE wont even happen. They'll have a hard time keeping everything else rolling.

Toss your lot in with a large tribe that can protect you etc and I'm sure open PVP etc wont effect you much.

Question: What would you do if we had to flag ourselves for PVP and another person comes along and starts griefing your spawn or knocking on your resource nodes while you are? What are your options? How do you protect the integrity of your gathering experience with NO way to deal with the "protected griefers/annoyances"?

Yours is only what you can claim with the length of your sword.
I have played games with gathering, building and no FFA PVP. I've met the problem you mentioned a lot of times...and I can tell you you don't need a sword to reach your goals or to get your ore. Most of the times we became friends with those griefers...you underrate the power of diplomacy, humor, friendship. During 5 years of gaming I've met 1 player who weren't willing to listen.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

it is nice to have the option to smack the guy a few times if it comes down to it doesn't it
oh and aren't you overestimating the potential of diplomacy... not everything can be solved with words...
on a side note would a world that never had any war really be so grand?

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 07:27 PM
necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


I have played games with gathering, building and no FFA PVP. I've met the problem you mentioned a lot of times...and I can tell you you don't need a sword to reach your goals or to get your ore. Most of the times we became friends with those griefers...you underrate the power of diplomacy, humor, friendship. During 5 years of gaming I've met 1 player who weren't willing to listen.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

1.it is nice to have the option to smack the guy a few times if it comes down to it doesn't it
2.oh and aren't you overestimating the potential of diplomacy... not everything can be solved with words...
3.on a side note would a world that never had any war really be so grand?

1.No, its not.
2.Much more than with swords.
3.In the game we are just trying to recover from an apocalyps what i bet was caused by a war, isn't it epic enough for you ?

Zarian
03-22-2010, 07:35 PM
A lot of what's being discussed isn't truly pvp but pking. Games which implement pvp typically have areas or situations in which pvp is allowed, if not encouraged. I personally love pvp, the competition, the adrenaline, and the teamwork aspects are all enjoyable and exciting. But that form of pvp includes me (a player geared for fighting) vs. another player (whom is also geared for fighting). Open world pvp a little different, implementing a risk feature that no matter where I go, I might be prey for a pker.

No one likes losing loot they've worked hard to get, but everyone likes getting rewards for their effort. If I'm out cutting down trees, I wouldn't mind the occasional thrill of someone sneaking up on me and having to fight to protect my spoils. But if I'm required to look over my shoulder every 5 seconds because people are out rampant pking everyone, there is no game.

The game has mentioned that there are definitely prices for pking people. And if that's held true, then there won't be too many murderers out there. There'll be enough to keep the spark of interest and danger fresh, but not enough to ruin the game. With this in mind we should be able to sleep knowing that basic mechanics have been put into play to keep ruthless pkers to a rarity and not the common player. And if the population of pkers rises to an alarming quantity, it'll be up to us, the players to fight back either with laws or rallied anti-pkers.

I'm definitely excited for this game, more so than probably any other game lately. And I know most of us are drawn to this game for the crafting, the building, the politics, exploring and towns. And that majority will fight back against those who are out to stop us from 'ruining' the game for us.

And it's not selfish for someone to pay for a game hoping that it'll be fun, and fighting for it to continue to entertain them. In fact, telling those people to stop fighting is what's selfish. These forums are for players, or in this case potential players, to discuss and disclose what it is that they enjoy from games, and what they hope that this game will and will not be.

Personally, PVP is good in my book if it's relatively controlled, but PK truly needs to be controlled so people won't lose everything they've worked hard for.


-Hoping for a fun Game where most of these concerns won't be as large as a hassle than what people have posted.

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 07:38 PM
necoo wrote:


you completely missed my point...
everytime you step out of your house for work you are taking a risk, there are those out there who would do you wrong for what you have, so why do you step out of your house... becuase you need money by any means you have at your disposal, why do you need money... to buy the food that feeds you and your family in order to live, and so you step outside and take the risk that someone out there might mug you or kill you or do unspeakable things to you... however the ppl who would do those things to you also need to make money to feed themselves and their family. and due to their circumstances the only way to make money for these things is to take money from whatever resources they have available and they take the risk that they might go to jail or worse.

what you want is to be able to get the money to get the food to feed yourself and your family without taking any risk... now that in and of itself isn't necessarily wrong however it is indeed unrealistic and so you are selfish in thinking that you can do these things without taking those risks

Now really, this sounds totally silly. Do you really mean this ? It sounds like you were supporting thieves and murderers in real, because those poor fellows have no choice and they have to feed their family. Weirdest thing I've ever heard. On the other side, do you find this in real life exciting ? interesting ? fun ? If so, I think something is wrong with you....everyone ( not counting the criminals) would LOVE to get rid of all of the crimes in real life. Our world would be a much better place then.

I tried to reply to the second part of your post...but I'm sorry, I can't, I'm simply not able to follow your thinking.

necoo
03-22-2010, 07:46 PM
Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:


I have played games with gathering, building and no FFA PVP. I've met the problem you mentioned a lot of times...and I can tell you you don't need a sword to reach your goals or to get your ore. Most of the times we became friends with those griefers...you underrate the power of diplomacy, humor, friendship. During 5 years of gaming I've met 1 player who weren't willing to listen.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

1.it is nice to have the option to smack the guy a few times if it comes down to it doesn't it
2.oh and aren't you overestimating the potential of diplomacy... not everything can be solved with words...
3.on a side note would a world that never had any war really be so grand?

1.No, its not.
2.Much more than with swords.
3.In the game we are just trying to recover from an apocalyps what i bet was caused by a war, isn't it epic enough for you ?

1. think of this scenario some guy is beating the crap out of your girlfriend and raping her... wouldn't it be nice if you could deck the guy once and get away... as it isn't exactly the time to play the diplomat

2 diplomacy can indeed solve more things then swords can however the things that diplomacy can't solve are the most important ones such as the example above and these scenarios can be solved with swords

3 being able to rebuild after an apocalypse is better then being ravaged by disease and hunger due to lack of resources to go around the 15 billion ppl of the world.

now that last one might be a bit confusing so let me explain (you can skip over this if you already understand)

first in a world that never had any war there would be far more people than there is today because no one ever killed them and we are at the top of the food chain so no animal kills us meaning 15 billion people and not the 6.5 billion today

next war has motivated millions (yes millions) of advances in every part of our lives with out it we would be looking at a far less developed world then our own

third with the 15 billion people in the world the amount of space available for agriculture among other things would be dwindled to nearly nothing so there would be less resources like food to go around to the 15 billion ppl

with that in mind there is already not enough food with what the world has now to feed everyone (although there might be if everyone shared [which by the way they don't]) so you take less food then right now and then split it up in 3 times smaller portions then today and you get starvation on a global scale

fourth with the lack of technology medicine would be even further less developed then today so the would would be further rampaged by disease

and this is just to name a few problems that comes up just because there was never war

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 08:02 PM
necoo wrote:


1. think of this scenario some guy is beating the crap out of your girlfriend and raping her... wouldn't it be nice if you could deck the guy once and get away... as it isn't exactly the time to play the diplomat

Aren't we talking about the game ? On the side note I'm a woman so having a girlfriend is not likely :P



2 diplomacy can indeed solve more things then swords can however the things that diplomacy can't solve are the most important ones such as the example above and these scenarios can be solved with swords


Personally I believe if we had no option to solve problems with swords we would have way less problems.



3 being able to rebuild after an apocalypse is better then being ravaged by disease and hunger due to lack of resources to go around the 15 billion ppl of the world.

now that last one might be a bit confusing so let me explain (you can skip over this if you already understand)

first in a world that never had any war there would be far more people than there is today because no one ever killed them and we are at the top of the food chain so no animal kills us meaning 15 billion people and not the 6.5 billion today

next war has motivated millions (yes millions) of advances in every part of our lives with out it we would be looking at a far less developed world then our own

third with the 15 billion people in the world the amount of space available for agriculture among other things would be dwindled to nearly nothing so there would be less resources like food to go around to the 15 billion ppl

with that in mind there is already not enough food with what the world has now to feed everyone (although there might be if everyone shared [which by the way they don't]) so you take less food then right now and then split it up in 3 times smaller portions then today and you get starvation on a global scale

fourth with the lack of technology medicine would be even further less developed then today so the would would be further rampaged by disease

and this is just to name a few problems that comes up just because there was never war

The population of our planet has been affected by wars way less than by catastrophes, diseases. The spanish flu has killed way more people than World WarI. And if there were no wars, the humankind wouldn't waste so many lives and money on it...could have used it much better. Perhaps we could have conquered other planets ? ( I'm a sci-fi fan :P ) But to be serious, for me war as a population controlling system is totally unacceptable.

necoo
03-22-2010, 08:06 PM
Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:


you completely missed my point...
everytime you step out of your house for work you are taking a risk, there are those out there who would do you wrong for what you have, so why do you step out of your house... becuase you need money by any means you have at your disposal, why do you need money... to buy the food that feeds you and your family in order to live, and so you step outside and take the risk that someone out there might mug you or kill you or do unspeakable things to you... however the ppl who would do those things to you also need to make money to feed themselves and their family. and due to their circumstances the only way to make money for these things is to take money from whatever resources they have available and they take the risk that they might go to jail or worse.

what you want is to be able to get the money to get the food to feed yourself and your family without taking any risk... now that in and of itself isn't necessarily wrong however it is indeed unrealistic and so you are selfish in thinking that you can do these things without taking those risks

Now really, this sounds totally silly. Do you really mean this ? It sounds like you were supporting thieves and murderers in real, because those poor fellows have no choice and they have to feed their family. Weirdest thing I've ever heard. On the other side, do you find this in real life exciting ? interesting ? fun ? If so, I think something is wrong with you....everyone ( not counting the criminals) would LOVE to get rid of all of the crimes in real life. Our world would be a much better place then.

I tried to reply to the second part of your post...but I'm sorry, I can't, I'm simply not able to follow your thinking.

you are a fool, who does not understand the implications of what you speak. How many thousands of people do you think would be out of the job without crime, how many millions. and not everything should be handled with consideration to the law. the laws that are made to protect us can vary well get in our way.

would you really stand ideally by wile you and your family are forced out of a home live on the streets with no food as you die in your own filth just because you want to be considerate to the law. do you really have such a strong will to bare with the grief and agony of the loss of everything and the death of all you love just because you didn't want to commit a crime.... not everyone has such a strong will, as for me i would kill without hesitation if the situation ever arises... not that it has

necoo
03-22-2010, 08:11 PM
Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:


1. think of this scenario some guy is beating the crap out of your girlfriend and raping her... wouldn't it be nice if you could deck the guy once and get away... as it isn't exactly the time to play the diplomat

Aren't we talking about the game ? On the side note I'm a woman so having a girlfriend is not likely :P



2 diplomacy can indeed solve more things then swords can however the things that diplomacy can't solve are the most important ones such as the example above and these scenarios can be solved with swords


Personally I believe if we had no option to solve problems with swords we would have way less problems.



3 being able to rebuild after an apocalypse is better then being ravaged by disease and hunger due to lack of resources to go around the 15 billion ppl of the world.

now that last one might be a bit confusing so let me explain (you can skip over this if you already understand)

first in a world that never had any war there would be far more people than there is today because no one ever killed them and we are at the top of the food chain so no animal kills us meaning 15 billion people and not the 6.5 billion today

next war has motivated millions (yes millions) of advances in every part of our lives with out it we would be looking at a far less developed world then our own

third with the 15 billion people in the world the amount of space available for agriculture among other things would be dwindled to nearly nothing so there would be less resources like food to go around to the 15 billion ppl

with that in mind there is already not enough food with what the world has now to feed everyone (although there might be if everyone shared [which by the way they don't]) so you take less food then right now and then split it up in 3 times smaller portions then today and you get starvation on a global scale

fourth with the lack of technology medicine would be even further less developed then today so the would would be further rampaged by disease

and this is just to name a few problems that comes up just because there was never war

The population of our planet has been affected by wars way less than by catastrophes, diseases. The spanish flu has killed way more people than World WarI. And if there were no wars, the humankind wouldn't waste so many lives and money on it...could have used it much better. Perhaps we could have conquered other planets ? ( I'm a sci-fi fan :P ) But to be serious, for me war as a population controlling system is totally unacceptable.

if there was never war we would have never even have reach the moon... let alone other planets... it seems you completely skipped the explanations about the lack of technological advancement due to the motivation that is war..... oh and in such a world the Spanish flu may have killed off the entire planet because of the lack of medical know how... which was developed because of war

oh and excuse my double post i didn't notice till after i submitted it

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 08:19 PM
necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:
[quote]
you are a fool, who does not understand the implications of what you speak. How many thousands of people do you think would be out of the job without crime, how many millions. and not everything should be handled with consideration to the law. the laws that are made to protect us can vary well get in our way.

would you really stand ideally by wile you and your family are forced out of a home live on the streets with no food as you die in your own filth just because you want to be considerate to the law. do you really have such a strong will to bare with the grief and agony of the loss of everything and the death of all you love just because you didn't want to commit a crime.... not everyone has such a strong will, as for me i would kill without hesitation if the situation ever arises... not that it has

Those people would get a better job in a better word. What I really hope is that you are young...probably a teenager...thinking like this if you were an adult really showed problems. Everyone has a choice...the situation to die or to kill only happens when someone is threatening you with a weapon. Naturally you have the right to defend yourself and your family. But you don't have the right to take someone's life to fill your needs. If you think that you have the right for that then you are on the best way to finish your life in a jail.

necoo
03-22-2010, 08:26 PM
Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:

Jadzia wrote:
[quote]
you are a fool, who does not understand the implications of what you speak. How many thousands of people do you think would be out of the job without crime, how many millions. and not everything should be handled with consideration to the law. the laws that are made to protect us can vary well get in our way.

would you really stand ideally by wile you and your family are forced out of a home live on the streets with no food as you die in your own filth just because you want to be considerate to the law. do you really have such a strong will to bare with the grief and agony of the loss of everything and the death of all you love just because you didn't want to commit a crime.... not everyone has such a strong will, as for me i would kill without hesitation if the situation ever arises... not that it has

Those people would get a better job in a better word. What I really hope is that you are young...probably a teenager...thinking like this if you were an adult really showed problems. Everyone has a choice...the situation to die or to kill only happens when someone is threatening you with a weapon. Naturally you have the right to defend yourself and your family. But you don't have the right to take someone's life to fill your needs. If you think that you have the right for that then you are on the best way to finish your life in a jail.

these people would not get better jobs because there wouldn't be enough jobs to go around which is the stem of most crime to begin with...if you really want such a utopia there would have to be at least 4 billion less people in the world to share everything with and have plenty of jobs to go around... and of course everyone wants a utopia there is just too many people for such and ideal to become a reality

Jadzia
03-22-2010, 08:35 PM
necoo wrote:


these people would not get better jobs because there wouldn't be enough jobs to go around which is the stem of most crime to begin with...if you really want such a utopia there would have to be at least 4 billion less people in the world to share everything with and have plenty of jobs to go around... and of course everyone wants a utopia there is just too many people for such and ideal to become a reality

My last post before I'm off to bed :) 4 billion less people ? There are 6 billion people in the world now, if you take out 4 billions we're gonna have an empty planet. This planet can feed 6 billion people without problem, lol farmers in Europe get paid NOT to graw corn and wheat, and NOT to keep cows and sheep. I agree a world without war is an utopia, but as long as you think that war is not something awful but necessary and good, we will never get rid of it.

necoo
03-22-2010, 08:47 PM
Jadzia wrote:

necoo wrote:


these people would not get better jobs because there wouldn't be enough jobs to go around which is the stem of most crime to begin with...if you really want such a utopia there would have to be at least 4 billion less people in the world to share everything with and have plenty of jobs to go around... and of course everyone wants a utopia there is just too many people for such and ideal to become a reality

My last post before I'm off to bed :) 4 billion less people ? There are 6 billion people in the world now, if you take out 4 billions we're gonna have an empty planet. This planet can feed 6 billion people without problem, lol farmers in Europe get paid NOT to graw corn and wheat, and NOT to keep cows and sheep. I agree a world without war is an utopia, but as long as you think that war is not something awful but necessary and good, we will never get rid of it.

yes i do mean 4 billion less people if this world could support 6 billion people without stress without crime without competition and without war this would have already been the case... however in this world there is hundreds of millions if not billions of people who have to strive to survive, do underhanded things just to get there next meal, and even go without food for days to the point where there bodies start eating there organs just to live. even though this would can support such a vast amount of people the wealthy are selfish and keep everything they have for them selves which is the way the world has been and always will be.

also please note that scientist predict that without fossil fuels there world not be enough energy to produce all the essentials of the world for 6 billion people and the earth would most likely only be able to have a mere 1 billion people

oh and to further emphasis my point war is not good but it is necessary... competition is the core of evolution you know the whole "survival of the fittest thing" all of nature revolves around this... if it is thrown out of balance then the entire world suffers much like how we humans being the dominate species are diminishing the planet of all its resources causing the countless species of the world becoming extinct at a faster rate then ever before in human history... (not that i care about the crappy little animals)... the point is that if we continue our endless expansion there will come a time when we can no longer expand without consequence... and then the amount of resources will diminish until there is nothing left and at that point everyone will die... think of it as a version of the apocalypse without war

shadowlz
03-22-2010, 09:50 PM
Wow, someone >_> has a one track mind ill tell you that. A part of this game is risk and survival, if you don't like its probably not the best game for you. You want to carebear? Join a tribe that will protect you.

In EvE online if you want to mine out of high sec, in low sec you get someone guard (usually an alt sadly). In null sec you stay within your alliances territory, keep intel channel up, and your perfectly safe(as long as your not somewhere stupid)

If the carebears in this game are at least as smart as the ones in EvE, they will do the same thing.

Jadzia, your in one of the biggest, if not the biggest, tribe on the forums, so if you just stay near your town and harvest with your tribe, you'll be fine. If its dangerous, then ask the tribe leader for some protection. Learn to adapt ffs. Don't mine 10000 miles from your town, if you see a red, run and tell tribe in chat. This isnt rocket science.


Carebears will be the lifeline of the tribes, provide everything for the tribe and town. The Combatards will protect it and the carebears. As a crafter yes, you probably will get ganked, because your the most valuable target, and if your tribe cant protect you, then you join a different one.



Now if you split the server into PvE only and PvP only, the PvE server will do just fine, build their houses with no interference or conflict.
But the PvP will suffer and die, it would force every PvPer to a playstlye they dont like, and also gimp their combat skills.

Its like, what if there was a server where, carebears had to train PvP skills along with the skills that you like. And if that skill was to low, you would die, all the time. You could never craft everything you want, or chop everything you want.

Picumnus
03-22-2010, 10:11 PM
So it seems that there are a number of different things happening in this thread.

1) some people think murder(PKing) is a good "means to an end" and should have no real punishment

2) some people think that PKing should be disallowed entirely without both parties agreeing.

3) then there are a few of us who say PKing is fine, as long as there are SEVERE penalties to the PKers that get caught (ie., captured through combat losses).

Necoo (I think it was) is talking about the necessity of crime and murder and how because some choose that lifestyle that makes it necessary. I would say that is not true, they choose that lifestyle out of ease, ignorance, most commonly, greed. In RL there are real penalties to this lifestyle... you get caught and go to jail or get killed along the way.

So which penalties do you choose in the game... should PKers suffer stronger death penalties than non-PKers? Should they lose more if caught?

To me, crime should be allowed, stealing, killing and the likes but those that choose that way to make a living should have a much higher risk attached to it. After all, it is likely that PKers/griefers will be cleaning up until tribes get well established warrior squads. So since they are gaining more though less work shouldn't they face the chance of losing more?

Now that being said I am going to go back to building my wall to keep your killing and stealing arse out of my area :)

sisler86
03-22-2010, 10:23 PM
Just a few thing here:

1. No one should have to stick close to their tribe and worry about PK'rs in a building, scavenging, crafting, and exploring game, which is exactly what this is. This game promises to appeal to ALL player types. Well, I am a non-PvP explorer type so how is that going to work if I have to worry about getting ganked all the time?

2. Ganking is not a playstyle, it's downright childish and bullying, because it is not wanted on the receiver's end.

3. I think people are reading WAY too much into a game that is not even out yet. All we can do is look at the information that has been given to us already. That being said, this game says very very little about PvP and a whole lot about crafting, building, trading, and the process of growing as a society. It will include some minor PvP elements, but it is incredibly obvious that it will not be the focus of this game and even borderline sounds like it is discouraged. Anyone who says that a game that offers PvP will have PvP is absolutely right, but don't turn the sandbox into an arena. Keep the balance.

4. History has repeatedly shown time and again that when there are tough times and turmoil in the world, people will band together, not split apart. This mentality that a real post-apocalyptic world would be anything like Mad Max, Fallout, or any other dare I say "Hollywood" depiction is complete fiction. Chaos and anarchy will always fail because structure is a human need. Otherwise government would have never existed in the first place.

5. I find it very interesting that those who are trying to tell us that the "carebear's dream MMO" is not for carebears and should play single player games are the same people who freak out at the mention of a PvE only server addition.

Personally I would love to see the game split into two separate servers, I would rather see this game fail because of a server split and have fun than to see it fail because all the non-PvP players left. I do not mind PvP in a game, but it just feels to me like people are trying to force that to be the games focus. I want to build and explore in this world like the game's intention, not be forced to fight in it every five minutes.

necoo
03-22-2010, 10:23 PM
Picumnus wrote:

So it seems that there are a number of different things happening in this thread.

Necoo (I think it was) is talking about the necessity of crime and murder and how because some choose that lifestyle that makes it necessary. I would say that is not true, they choose that lifestyle out of ease, ignorance, most commonly, greed. In RL there are real penalties to this lifestyle... you get caught and go to jail or get killed along the way.


since my name was mentioned i feel a need to respond to this

i must clear things up a little i wasn't saying that crimes is necessary because they chose to do it but rather they were forced to do it and without crime there would be no need for police, detectives, and whatever other anti-criminal jobs that are available in which case many would be out of the job and have to find new ones which there wouldn't be enough to go around and that being jobless is what causes people to be force to go into criminal activities... to support this unemployment rate is at an all time high since the great depression and crime rate is at an all time high, coincidence, i think not... but the rest of what you are saying i agree with as in the most commonly it being greed in this case the greedy deserve quick and harsh punishment

shadowlz
03-22-2010, 11:46 PM
Jesus christ...

1) well then they need to learn to suck it up, stop sucking so much ass, and learn to avoid players. Go exploring, but dont expect it to be a cake fking walk, there will be mobs programed to kill you, also highwaymen and bandits (gankers) that will try to kill you the same way. I could go exploring Baltimore city, but I know i should keep away from dark alleyways and strange looking people.
If your some death prone, fails to adapt to hostile environment carebear, then you stay near your town. If your smart, know how to avoid danger, thinks out situations kind of crafter PvEer then youll be fine.

2) Ganking is a playstlye weather you like it or not. Is it stupid? Yes. If they roleplayed it would be a lot more fun, but dont expect that from clans like myrmidon. Theres a lot of things you dont want to be on the receiving end of (your wifes pms) but it just happens.

3) Obviously. The carebears came in here trying to split up servers and gimp all the pvp aspects of the game, I'm just defending it.

4) Unrelated, this is game.

5) Again, carebears started this debate. This isnt a carebears dream mmo, its just a great looking sandbox game, where you should beable to play the way you want to on one persistent world.


The carebears need to stop whining. We havent even played the game yet and your whining about gankers, your gonna love myrmidon...
The games hardly PvP focused, but your trying to take every last ounce of blood out of it. What if the combatards went around and made threads about how much they hate crafting, and how crafters are always cutting down our trees they hide in.

Last I checked xsyon is trying to attract more than one type of player.

sisler86
03-22-2010, 11:56 PM
shadowlz wrote:

Jesus christ...

1) well then they need to learn to suck it up, stop sucking so much ass, and learn to avoid players. Go exploring, but dont expect it to be a cake fking walk, there will be mobs programed to kill you, also highwaymen and bandits (gankers) that will try to kill you the same way. I could go exploring Baltimore city, but I know i should keep away from dark alleyways and strange looking people.
If your some death prone, fails to adapt to hostile environment carebear, then you stay near your town. If your smart, know how to avoid danger, thinks out situations kind of crafter PvEer then youll be fine.

2) Ganking is a playstlye weather you like it or not. Is it stupid? Yes. If they roleplayed it would be a lot more fun, but dont expect that from clans like myrmidon. Theres a lot of things you dont want to be on the receiving end of (your wifes pms) but it just happens.

3) Obviously. The carebears came in here trying to split up servers and gimp all the pvp aspects of the game, I'm just defending it.

4) Unrelated, this is game.

5) Again, carebears started this debate. This isnt a carebears dream mmo, its just a great looking sandbox game, where you should beable to play the way you want to on one persistent world.


The carebears need to stop whining. We havent even played the game yet and your whining about gankers, your gonna love myrmidon...
The games hardly PvP focused, but your trying to take every last ounce of blood out of it. What if the combatards went around and made threads about how much they hate crafting, and how crafters are always cutting down our trees they hide in.

Last I checked xsyon is trying to attract more than one type of player.

Every response you gave (except for #5 which was a legitimate response to something that was talked about on this thread and was referring to ppl using the "realism" excuse) along with your heated tone and language further proves every point I was trying to make.

JCatano
03-23-2010, 12:52 AM
sisler86 -

Here is an entire post about PvP from the developer. Like it or not, this game is going to be very PvP involved (thankfully), but it won't be the only thing to do (thankfully x2):

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-features/232-conflict-death-consequences-and-decisions

Virtus
03-23-2010, 12:59 AM
/me hands out chill pills.

sisler86 is correct. While there will be PVP it should not be the main element. PvP will come into play if tribes are fighting over a resource or to defend a resource.

The consequences for becoming evil should deter most from mindless ganking.

Before nay saying, or even agreeing with the current setup try it out, see how it plays out. If you don't like it after trying it then by all means speak your mind.

Currently it is pointless arguing over such little known facts, it's like saying the earth is flat when you have only see your backyard.

sisler86
03-23-2010, 01:01 AM
The dev. in this post said nothing about this game being "very PvP involved." He was simply stating the rules and answering some questions about the PvP elements to this game. If you want to know what kind of game this will be then read the "about" section and you will find that in all those paragraphs of text, I think there may be like three references to PvP. Will it exist? Yes. Is this a PvP focused game? Absolutely not. and the devs have even stated that if it starts leaning that way then they will take measures to make things more balanced for the non-PvP players out there.

JCatano
03-23-2010, 01:52 AM
sisler86 wrote:

The dev. in this post said nothing about this game being "very PvP involved." He was simply stating the rules and answering some questions about the PvP elements to this game. If you want to know what kind of game this will be then read the "about" section and you will find that in all those paragraphs of text, I think there may be like three references to PvP. Will it exist? Yes. Is this a PvP focused game? Absolutely not. and the devs have even stated that if it starts leaning that way then they will take measures to make things more balanced for the non-PvP players out there.

Do you really think a game with open-PvP, player looting, and tribe warfare is not going to heavily involve PvP?

Read what Virtus wrote...

"PvP will come into play if tribes are fighting over a resource or to defend a resource."

"If"? More like a guarantee. The only way they can tone down PvP is to make it optional. I'm 90% confident they will not do that, but if they do, a large piece of the current followers will be gone. Many of us started looking at this game because of open-PvP/loot, along with the other mechanics (twitch gameplay, skill decay, diverse crafting, etc.) that seem to be very deep with regard to gameplay.

As far as "evil" or "red"... Consequences are fine. What isn't fine is trying to make "evil" so harsh that it is obsolete. That wouldn't even be logical, since that playstyle is being coded into the game. Why waste time layering that code into the game if you're trying to discourage it to the point of being nonexistent?

I haven't seen them say they'd make it more balanced towards non-pvp'ers when talking about PvP, but I have seen them say they won't allow mindless, repetitive ganking. There's a difference.

The compromise was already stated, anyway:

We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment. - Xsyon

As I said before, open-PvP is a fundamental design choice, because it affects many mechanics. The initial choice is... Open-PvP. If they start caving to a few vocal people who speak against their fundamental choice, then it's a doomed game from the start.

Virtus
03-23-2010, 02:06 AM
I also said

Before nay saying, or even agreeing with the current setup try it out, see how it plays out. If you don't like it after trying it then by all means speak your mind.

Currently it is pointless arguing over such little known facts, it's like saying the earth is flat when you have only see your backyard.

sisler86
03-23-2010, 02:09 AM
Virtus wrote:

I also said

Before nay saying, or even agreeing with the current setup try it out, see how it plays out. If you don't like it after trying it then by all means speak your mind.

Currently it is pointless arguing over such little known facts, it's like saying the earth is flat when you have only see your backyard.

I couldn't agree more, and I've also made that point several times. We won't know anything for sure until we play the game and see how things pan out. All we have right now are a few gameplay facts given to us as a teasers.

JCatano
03-23-2010, 02:30 AM
Virtus wrote:

I also said

Before nay saying, or even agreeing with the current setup try it out, see how it plays out. If you don't like it after trying it then by all means speak your mind.

Currently it is pointless arguing over such little known facts, it's like saying the earth is flat when you have only see your backyard.

It only takes a bit of common sense to realize that a whole lot of PvP is going to happen because of the resources (which is a great thing). Gear/buildings/etc. will need resources. Resources dynamically move around and can be depleted. That will create a lot of exciting competition.

If you don't compete with a weapon, you better have the money to compete with in the market. But, where will that $$ come from? I don't think you're going to type in /givemefreemoney. You're going to have to go out into the world and earn it with all of the other people who may be sizing you up.

VowOfSilence
03-23-2010, 02:32 AM
I don't really like the idea of a PvE/PvP server split, either - i actually like some open PvP, i just don't like random PKs while i'm doing mundane tasks like chopping or fishing... If there's a server split, you'll indeed have to watch your back every 5sec on the PvP server, while the PvE server will have no PvP at all. Neither would be fun for me.

JCatano wrote:

It only takes a bit of common sense to realize that a whole lot of PvP is going to happen because of the resources
It only takes a bit of common sense to realize that this will depend on the scarity of resources...

JCatano
03-23-2010, 02:44 AM
VowOfSilence wrote:

I don't really like the idea of a PvE/PvP server split, either - i actually like some open PvP, i just don't like random PKs while i'm doing mundane tasks like chopping or fishing... If there's a server split, you'll indeed have to watch your back every 5sec on the PvP server, while the PvE server will have no PvP at all. Neither would be fun for me.

JCatano wrote:

It only takes a bit of common sense to realize that a whole lot of PvP is going to happen because of the resources
It only takes a bit of common sense to realize that this will depend on the scarity of resources...

I think I'll give the devs the benefit of the doubt when talking about resource competition.

There will also be players coming here for PvP. Many will be opportunist, along with being very competitive. That is going to lead to an environment where resources will be fought over no matter how many are out there. It's not a bad thing.

sisler86
03-23-2010, 02:58 AM
Fighting over resources is one thing and that is fine. It brings a sense of depth to the game. It's when years down the road new non-PvP players can't even get a good start because the game is overrun by FFA PK's. That is my only concern. I want PvP in this game even though I, for the most part, won't participate. I just don't want the game be increasingly less fun for those of us who choose to build, scavenge, explore, etc.

Lardocrul
03-23-2010, 03:03 AM
Time will tell how PVP will work and the dev-team probably will balance the game so that all players have fun and not only a part of them.

JCatano
03-23-2010, 03:07 AM
sisler86 wrote:

Fighting over resources is one thing and that is fine. It brings a sense of depth to the game. It's when years down the road new non-PvP players can't even get a good start because the game is overrun by FFA PK's. That is my only concern. I want PvP in this game even though I, for the most part, won't participate. I just don't want the game be increasingly less fun for those of us who choose to build, scavenge, explore, etc.

Yes, meaningful PvP is great, but you are going to have to participate at times whether you like it or not. You will probably have to keep looking over your shoulder, too, especially if you're planning on exploring everywhere. That's the open-PvP part.

That can be dampened somewhat by having allies and controlling territory. It will also help if the devs give us a large enough world, so players can "get lost". While a lot of PK'ing happens in DF, the map is very large, so you can "get lost". I've been mining/chopping/gathering the whole time I have been posting the past few hours. Haven't seen a soul.

PANZERBUNNY
03-23-2010, 01:22 PM
JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Fighting over resources is one thing and that is fine. It brings a sense of depth to the game. It's when years down the road new non-PvP players can't even get a good start because the game is overrun by FFA PK's. That is my only concern. I want PvP in this game even though I, for the most part, won't participate. I just don't want the game be increasingly less fun for those of us who choose to build, scavenge, explore, etc.

Yes, meaningful PvP is great, but you are going to have to participate at times whether you like it or not. You will probably have to keep looking over your shoulder, too, especially if you're planning on exploring everywhere. That's the open-PvP part.

That can be dampened somewhat by having allies and controlling territory. It will also help if the devs give us a large enough world, so players can "get lost". While a lot of PK'ing happens in DF, the map is very large, so you can "get lost". I've been mining/chopping/gathering the whole time I have been posting the past few hours. Haven't seen a soul.

Everyones gonna get in on it someway or another.

Any self respecting tribe would DEMAND that in times of war or attack on their city, EVERYONE gets onto the walls and grabs and axe, club, Sharp pokey Antler to "do their part".
Saying, "nah man, I want to fish for the next few hours, hope the city doesn't burn to the ground", wont cut it.
I can see some people wanting to stay out of it altogether, but in the end, if you want the freedom to craft and gather in relative peace, you'll have to fight for it.

Virtus
03-23-2010, 02:22 PM
^ Amen

darkrounge
03-23-2010, 02:39 PM
Well done on you 500 posts Virtus.

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 02:44 PM
I don't know if I should go on this debate, since some of you guys seem to keep missing my point. I'm not native english, perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly enough ?

I'm a member of a big and strong tribe, and my tribemates are really very protective...so I'm personally not really worried about being ganked. Its the freedom of choice I'm talking about.

PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun. PK is not fun, dangerous or whatever to me...its childish, bugging, and makes me feel being used. As I said, I don't want to play hide and seek with bored kids.

I've read through the posts, and I saw even PvP players were admitting their server would die without non-PvPers, one of them even said he would leave if a server split happened (thanks, Dominus, your post really made me feel wanted ;) ) If you guys need us so bad, why don't you give some respect to our playstyle? Why do you keep saying 'stay in town if you are scared', 'watch your back if you are too stupid to fight', 'you are a carebear, QQ more' ? Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

To be honest my bigest concern about FFA PvP that it attracts the worst kind of immature playerbase.

Virtus's post gave me a peace in mind. We don't know yet how the game will work, but the developers clearly stated that they don't want PvP to be main element of the game. You can try to read more into it than what its there, but it would be better to accept the stated features. Virtus said PvP will take part when players fight over resources...that sounds good, meaningful PvP. He didn't mention town sieges, the feature list says 'Protected player owned houses', this goes right against the opportunity of destroying villages. Tribe villages will be protected during Prelude, and its not announced how it will work after that.

This thread was useful for me anyway, I was glad to see so many like-minded non-PvP players, though they usually don't post on forums :)

Again, I'd like to state I'm not against PvP, it freshens up the economy and gives thrill to players who like that. I'm against FFA PvP, so PvP flagging, PvP zones, very strict PvP punishment or anything like that what stops and keeps away mindless gankers will do for me.

Virtus
03-23-2010, 02:57 PM
Jadzia wrote:


He didn't mention town sieges, the feature list says Protected player owned houses, this goes right against the opportunity of destroying villages. Tribe villages will be protected during Prelude, and its not announced how it will work after that.

I didn't mention this for two reasons.

1.) It will not be in game for awhile so no one will have to worry about it for now.
2.) I do not know how this feature will work.

and as Jooky has stated ganking and griefing will not be tolerated.

sisler86
03-23-2010, 03:00 PM
Jadzia wrote:

I don't know if I should go on this debate, since some of you guys seem to keep missing my point. I'm not native english, perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly enough ?

I'm a member of a big and strong tribe, and my tribemates are really very protective...so I'm personally not really worried about being ganked. Its the freedom of choice I'm talking about.

PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun. PK is not fun, dangerous or whatever to me...its childish, bugging, and makes me feel being used. As I said, I don't want to play hide and seek with bored kids.

I've read through the posts, and I saw even PvP players were admitting their server would die without non-PvPers, one of them even said he would leave if a server split happened (thanks, Dominus, your post really made me feel wanted ;) ) If you guys need us so bad, why don't you give some respect to our playstyle? Why do you keep saying 'stay in town if you are scared', 'watch your back if you are too stupid to fight', 'you are a carebear, QQ more' ? Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

To be honest my bigest concern about FFA PvP that it attracts the worst kind of immature playerbase.

Virtus's post gave me a peace in mind. We don't know yet how the game will work, but the developers clearly stated that they don't want PvP to be main element of the game. You can try to read more into it than what its there, but it would be better to accept the stated features. Virtus said PvP will take part when players fight over resources...that sounds good, meaningful PvP. He didn't mention town sieges, the feature list says 'Protected player owned houses', this goes right against the opportunity of destroying villages. Tribe villages will be protected during Prelude, and its not announced how it will work after that.

This thread was useful for me anyway, I was glad to see so many like-minded non-PvP players, though they usually don't post on forums :)

Again, I'd like to state I'm not against PvP, it freshens up the economy and gives thrill to players who like that. I'm against FFA PvP, so PvP flagging, PvP zones, very strict PvP punishment or anything like that what stops and keeps away mindless gankers will do for me.

We seem to have the same mindset on this. I totally agree.

PANZERBUNNY
03-23-2010, 03:39 PM
Jadzia wrote:

I don't know if I should go on this debate, since some of you guys seem to keep missing my point. I'm not native english, perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly enough ?

I'm a member of a big and strong tribe, and my tribemates are really very protective...so I'm personally not really worried about being ganked. Its the freedom of choice I'm talking about.

PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun. PK is not fun, dangerous or whatever to me...its childish, bugging, and makes me feel being used. As I said, I don't want to play hide and seek with bored kids.

I've read through the posts, and I saw even PvP players were admitting their server would die without non-PvPers, one of them even said he would leave if a server split happened (thanks, Dominus, your post really made me feel wanted ;) ) If you guys need us so bad, why don't you give some respect to our playstyle? Why do you keep saying 'stay in town if you are scared', 'watch your back if you are too stupid to fight', 'you are a carebear, QQ more' ? Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

To be honest my bigest concern about FFA PvP that it attracts the worst kind of immature playerbase.

Virtus's post gave me a peace in mind. We don't know yet how the game will work, but the developers clearly stated that they don't want PvP to be main element of the game. You can try to read more into it than what its there, but it would be better to accept the stated features. Virtus said PvP will take part when players fight over resources...that sounds good, meaningful PvP. He didn't mention town sieges, the feature list says 'Protected player owned houses', this goes right against the opportunity of destroying villages. Tribe villages will be protected during Prelude, and its not announced how it will work after that.

This thread was useful for me anyway, I was glad to see so many like-minded non-PvP players, though they usually don't post on forums :)

Again, I'd like to state I'm not against PvP, it freshens up the economy and gives thrill to players who like that. I'm against FFA PvP, so PvP flagging, PvP zones, very strict PvP punishment or anything like that what stops and keeps away mindless gankers will do for me.

We also need to realize that ganking to the point of griefing etc isn't a playstyle the majority of the playerbase prefers. Its usually always isolated and we can assume that it will be even MORE isolated due to the small scale of the community.

I think there is alot of doom and gloom going on here in regards to PVP.
I enjoy good PVP and will attack people if its warranted, but I have sympathy for the lone harvester because I know how long it takes to gather that stuff.

In darkfall I was riding past a "red" harvesting wood. I stop....ponder...ride back..stab him in the back. take his 130 wood.
If he wasn't red I would have let him live, but he happened to be a wolf and I'm a dwarf. Thats just how that game works. Kill the opposing "evil" races.

Obviously the only factions from launch will be Tribes.(from what we know) All this means is that the political machines of each tribe need to secure the protection of their members and hold other tribes accountable for unprovoked attacks etc.

sisler86
03-23-2010, 04:00 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

I don't know if I should go on this debate, since some of you guys seem to keep missing my point. I'm not native english, perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly enough ?

I'm a member of a big and strong tribe, and my tribemates are really very protective...so I'm personally not really worried about being ganked. Its the freedom of choice I'm talking about.

PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun. PK is not fun, dangerous or whatever to me...its childish, bugging, and makes me feel being used. As I said, I don't want to play hide and seek with bored kids.

I've read through the posts, and I saw even PvP players were admitting their server would die without non-PvPers, one of them even said he would leave if a server split happened (thanks, Dominus, your post really made me feel wanted ;) ) If you guys need us so bad, why don't you give some respect to our playstyle? Why do you keep saying 'stay in town if you are scared', 'watch your back if you are too stupid to fight', 'you are a carebear, QQ more' ? Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

To be honest my bigest concern about FFA PvP that it attracts the worst kind of immature playerbase.

Virtus's post gave me a peace in mind. We don't know yet how the game will work, but the developers clearly stated that they don't want PvP to be main element of the game. You can try to read more into it than what its there, but it would be better to accept the stated features. Virtus said PvP will take part when players fight over resources...that sounds good, meaningful PvP. He didn't mention town sieges, the feature list says 'Protected player owned houses', this goes right against the opportunity of destroying villages. Tribe villages will be protected during Prelude, and its not announced how it will work after that.

This thread was useful for me anyway, I was glad to see so many like-minded non-PvP players, though they usually don't post on forums :)

Again, I'd like to state I'm not against PvP, it freshens up the economy and gives thrill to players who like that. I'm against FFA PvP, so PvP flagging, PvP zones, very strict PvP punishment or anything like that what stops and keeps away mindless gankers will do for me.

We also need to realize that ganking to the point of griefing etc isn't a playstyle the majority of the playerbase prefers. Its usually always isolated and we can assume that it will be even MORE isolated due to the small scale of the community.

I think there is alot of doom and gloom going on here in regards to PVP.
I enjoy good PVP and will attack people if its warranted, but I have sympathy for the lone harvester because I know how long it takes to gather that stuff.

In darkfall I was riding past a "red" harvesting wood. I stop....ponder...ride back..stab him in the back. take his 130 wood.
If he wasn't red I would have let him live, but he happened to be a wolf and I'm a dwarf. Thats just how that game works. Kill the opposing "evil" races.

Obviously the only factions from launch will be Tribes.(from what we know) All this means is that the political machines of each tribe need to secure the protection of their members and hold other tribes accountable for unprovoked attacks etc.

I also agree with this. I like the option of PvP even though I rarely participate. I typically have the "live and let live" mindset and would probably not have killed that wolf even though he was red. I only defend myself, which is the reason I do not play darkfall. I understand that I may be forced to defend myself at times and that is fine. I can accept that and I expect that. I don't think that all the arguments against the FFA PvP system are as serious as a lot of us "myself included" have made them out to be, but we do have some legitimate concerns and just don't want this game to turn out like some other sandbox MMORPG's have in the past.

necoo
03-23-2010, 04:00 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

I don't know if I should go on this debate, since some of you guys seem to keep missing my point. I'm not native english, perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly enough ?

I'm a member of a big and strong tribe, and my tribemates are really very protective...so I'm personally not really worried about being ganked. Its the freedom of choice I'm talking about.

PvP players want to force their playstyle into others, only seeing their own fun. PK is not fun, dangerous or whatever to me...its childish, bugging, and makes me feel being used. As I said, I don't want to play hide and seek with bored kids.

I've read through the posts, and I saw even PvP players were admitting their server would die without non-PvPers, one of them even said he would leave if a server split happened (thanks, Dominus, your post really made me feel wanted ;) ) If you guys need us so bad, why don't you give some respect to our playstyle? Why do you keep saying 'stay in town if you are scared', 'watch your back if you are too stupid to fight', 'you are a carebear, QQ more' ? Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

To be honest my bigest concern about FFA PvP that it attracts the worst kind of immature playerbase.

Virtus's post gave me a peace in mind. We don't know yet how the game will work, but the developers clearly stated that they don't want PvP to be main element of the game. You can try to read more into it than what its there, but it would be better to accept the stated features. Virtus said PvP will take part when players fight over resources...that sounds good, meaningful PvP. He didn't mention town sieges, the feature list says 'Protected player owned houses', this goes right against the opportunity of destroying villages. Tribe villages will be protected during Prelude, and its not announced how it will work after that.

This thread was useful for me anyway, I was glad to see so many like-minded non-PvP players, though they usually don't post on forums :)

Again, I'd like to state I'm not against PvP, it freshens up the economy and gives thrill to players who like that. I'm against FFA PvP, so PvP flagging, PvP zones, very strict PvP punishment or anything like that what stops and keeps away mindless gankers will do for me.

We also need to realize that ganking to the point of griefing etc isn't a playstyle the majority of the playerbase prefers. Its usually always isolated and we can assume that it will be even MORE isolated due to the small scale of the community.

I think there is alot of doom and gloom going on here in regards to PVP.
I enjoy good PVP and will attack people if its warranted, but I have sympathy for the lone harvester because I know how long it takes to gather that stuff.

In darkfall I was riding past a "red" harvesting wood. I stop....ponder...ride back..stab him in the back. take his 130 wood.
If he wasn't red I would have let him live, but he happened to be a wolf and I'm a dwarf. Thats just how that game works. Kill the opposing "evil" races.

Obviously the only factions from launch will be Tribes.(from what we know) All this means is that the political machines of each tribe need to secure the protection of their members and hold other tribes accountable for unprovoked attacks etc.

racist...

VowOfSilence
03-23-2010, 04:05 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

You don't know carebears?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPjzh73IHk&feature=related
this ^^

sisler86
03-23-2010, 04:06 PM
It's not racism. It's genocide! There's a difference. :P

Reynolds
03-23-2010, 04:06 PM
VowOfSilence wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

You don't know carebears?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPjzh73IHk&feature=related
this ^^

Carebear stare hits you for 137854321. You die.

necoo
03-23-2010, 04:08 PM
VowOfSilence wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

You don't know carebears?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPjzh73IHk&feature=related
this ^^
AHHH! MY EYES! MY EYES! LOOK AWAY! LOOK AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JCatano
03-23-2010, 04:18 PM
Jadzia -

You decided to get involved with a game that stated open-PvP is the mechanic. I think the problem for some people is that you're basically saying you want to change that fundamental decision to where PvP is optional/mutual. Well, you do have an option... Play or don't play.

You've expressed that PvP is not fun for you, so why think about playing a game with open-PvP?

When LoTRO was being developed, I didn't run over to their forums and ask for open-PvP. I simply looked for another game. No MMO will ever be able to cater to the needs of every playstyle on the same server. MMOs have to find their niche and make that group happy. Separate server rulesets would be the only way to try and make everyone happy, but there has to be a substantial playerbase and adequate funding to support extra infrastructure.

You keep talking about "PK'ers" forcing a playstyle onto you... Well, isn't that a bit ironic? Should they be forced to deal with your safe-flag? Your PvP zones? There is an immersion factor involved. It's not only about ganking Jadzia simply because they can, although that can happen.

PvP with a purpose is obviously ideal, but in an open-PvP game you're going to get "ganked". You have to come in knowing it will happen.

And to the people who keep saying this website doesn't really talk about PvP, click "Home" and the read the first paragraph:

Jan 1st 2012.

War has destroyed life as we know it. The Apocalypse is at hand!
Will you fight for justice to stop the chaos or will you join in the ranks of evil to bring upon the ultimate destruction of the earth?

And near the end:

Your path is one of choice. Will your actions help heal the planet or will you play a part in its ultimate doom?

While it doesn't necessarily say "PvP", I don't think it's very hard to understand that it's part of the equation.

Again, I am 100% for meaningful PvP and more things to do than just PK. I'm bored in Darkfall, because that's all there is. It's stale. Someone linked Xsyon in the forums and many of us were happy to see that the mechanics were much deeper, but also to see that it still had twitch-gameplay and open-PvP.

So... Here I am.

comestible
03-23-2010, 04:20 PM
VowOfSilence wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

You don't know carebears?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPjzh73IHk&feature=related
this ^^

Carebears are awesome. They ruin pvp though. Ever played lazer tag with em? All the guns get rainbow zapped into nothing, and the carebears start singing and shit. They really don't get the point of the game.

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 04:29 PM
VowOfSilence wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

You don't know carebears?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPjzh73IHk&feature=related
this ^^
No, never seen them...its not on TV in my country...but they are cute !!

necoo
03-23-2010, 04:30 PM
comestible wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

You don't know carebears?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPjzh73IHk&feature=related
this ^^

Carebears are awesome. They ruin pvp though. Ever played lazer tag with em? All the guns get rainbow zapped into nothing, and the carebears start singing and shit. They really don't get the point of the game.

how dare such blasphemous creatures be brought to this world!

sisler86
03-23-2010, 04:33 PM
comestible wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

You don't know carebears?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPjzh73IHk&feature=related
this ^^

Carebears are awesome. They ruin pvp though. Ever played lazer tag with em? All the guns get rainbow zapped into nothing, and the carebears start singing and shit. They really don't get the point of the game.

Hell yeah Care Bears! lol Not as cool as Gumby though. :P

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 04:51 PM
JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

You decided to get involved with a game that stated open-PvP is the mechanic. I think the problem for some people is that you're basically saying you want to change that fundamental decision to where PvP is optional/mutual. Well, you do have an option... Play or don't play.


You are wrong. I got involved with this game when its site didn't even have forum. I read the feature list and i was amazed...it sounded too good to be true. There was no mention at all about PvP, especially not about open PvP. I'm more and more sure that its not me who got the wrong impression about the game, but you. You keep saying that PvP is fundamental here, and Xsyon keep refute you. Still it seems you somehow don't get it...why ? I got involved with a great sandbox game with minor PvP, but you try to turn it into an FFA PvP focus game...why ?



You've expressed that PvP is not fun for you, so why think about playing a game with open-PvP?

As I said, I have no problem with open PvP as long as its rare and severely punished, and the developer said it will be like that here.



You keep talking about "PK'ers" forcing a playstyle onto you... Well, isn't that a bit ironic? Should they be forced to deal with your safe-flag? Your PvP zones? There is an immersion factor involved. It's not only about ganking Jadzia simply because they can, although that can happen.

Why would it be ironic ? They need me as a victim...I don't need them at all to enjoy the game. So I don't force anything on them. And whats wrong with the immersion in outlaw areas ? Its much more realistic too.



Again, I am 100% for meaningful PvP and more things to do than just PK. I'm bored in Darkfall, because that's all there is. It's stale. Someone linked Xsyon in the forums and many of us were happy to see that the mechanics were much deeper, but also to see that it still had twitch-gameplay and open-PvP.

So... Here I am.

Yes...and since you got to know the game through other players whit the same mindset as yours, you got the impression that this game has a focus on open PvP...you were looking for a game like that, so you read into it what wasn't written there.
If this game was the one you are saying it is, open PPV would be clearly announced on the feature page. And Virtus stated that PvP is NOT the MAIN ELEMENT of the game...I simply can't understand how can you overlook these informations.

comestible
03-23-2010, 05:14 PM
sisler86 wrote:

comestible wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Even that carebear word, some people use it as an insult...what does it really mean ? A bear who cares lol ? Bears care about their cubs, but otherwise they are really dangerous animals.

You don't know carebears?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPjzh73IHk&feature=related
this ^^

Carebears are awesome. They ruin pvp though. Ever played lazer tag with em? All the guns get rainbow zapped into nothing, and the carebears start singing and shit. They really don't get the point of the game.

Hell yeah Care Bears! lol Not as cool as Gumby though. :P

You strike me as somebody with a lot of brownie points.

PANZERBUNNY
03-23-2010, 05:24 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

You decided to get involved with a game that stated open-PvP is the mechanic. I think the problem for some people is that you're basically saying you want to change that fundamental decision to where PvP is optional/mutual. Well, you do have an option... Play or don't play.


You are wrong. I got involved with this game when its site didn't even have forum. I read the feature list and i was amazed...it sounded too good to be true. There was no mention at all about PvP, especially not about open PvP. I'm more and more sure that its not me who got the wrong impression about the game, but you. You keep saying that PvP is fundamental here, and Xsyon keep refute you. Still it seems you somehow don't get it...why ? I got involved with a great sandbox game with minor PvP, but you try to turn it into an FFA PvP focus game...why ?



You've expressed that PvP is not fun for you, so why think about playing a game with open-PvP?

As I said, I have no problem with open PvP as long as its rare and severely punished, and the developer said it will be like that here.



You keep talking about "PK'ers" forcing a playstyle onto you... Well, isn't that a bit ironic? Should they be forced to deal with your safe-flag? Your PvP zones? There is an immersion factor involved. It's not only about ganking Jadzia simply because they can, although that can happen.

Why would it be ironic ? They need me as a victim...I don't need them at all to enjoy the game. So I don't force anything on them. And whats wrong with the immersion in outlaw areas ? Its much more realistic too.



Again, I am 100% for meaningful PvP and more things to do than just PK. I'm bored in Darkfall, because that's all there is. It's stale. Someone linked Xsyon in the forums and many of us were happy to see that the mechanics were much deeper, but also to see that it still had twitch-gameplay and open-PvP.

So... Here I am.

Yes...and since you got to know the game through other players whit the same mindset as yours, you got the impression that this game has a focus on open PvP...you were looking for a game like that, so you read into it what wasn't written there.
If this game was the one you are saying it is, open PPV would be clearly announced on the feature page. And Virtus stated that PvP is NOT the MAIN ELEMENT of the game...I simply can't understand how can you overlook these informations.


ummm.....considering that NOTHING is clearly stated...I dont think anyone can say shit about whats in it or how it should be.

But since its a game based after world destruction, humanity being thrown back into the dark ages and tribes WILL be able to war against each other, take cities and gain control over territory.... WITH an EVIL system with drastic consequences....there WILL be open PVP. Hence the entire evil concept for your character.

Stop running on the spot with this conversation. Your argument about "its not clearly stated" is kiddy at best.

PVP isn't the MAIN element in Darkfall either. Its an important one, but there are many other features in that game that stand out.
Same with this one.

This game will not be "Mad Max Meets the Sims".

sisler86
03-23-2010, 05:33 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

You decided to get involved with a game that stated open-PvP is the mechanic. I think the problem for some people is that you're basically saying you want to change that fundamental decision to where PvP is optional/mutual. Well, you do have an option... Play or don't play.


You are wrong. I got involved with this game when its site didn't even have forum. I read the feature list and i was amazed...it sounded too good to be true. There was no mention at all about PvP, especially not about open PvP. I'm more and more sure that its not me who got the wrong impression about the game, but you. You keep saying that PvP is fundamental here, and Xsyon keep refute you. Still it seems you somehow don't get it...why ? I got involved with a great sandbox game with minor PvP, but you try to turn it into an FFA PvP focus game...why ?



You've expressed that PvP is not fun for you, so why think about playing a game with open-PvP?

As I said, I have no problem with open PvP as long as its rare and severely punished, and the developer said it will be like that here.



You keep talking about "PK'ers" forcing a playstyle onto you... Well, isn't that a bit ironic? Should they be forced to deal with your safe-flag? Your PvP zones? There is an immersion factor involved. It's not only about ganking Jadzia simply because they can, although that can happen.

Why would it be ironic ? They need me as a victim...I don't need them at all to enjoy the game. So I don't force anything on them. And whats wrong with the immersion in outlaw areas ? Its much more realistic too.



Again, I am 100% for meaningful PvP and more things to do than just PK. I'm bored in Darkfall, because that's all there is. It's stale. Someone linked Xsyon in the forums and many of us were happy to see that the mechanics were much deeper, but also to see that it still had twitch-gameplay and open-PvP.

So... Here I am.

Yes...and since you got to know the game through other players whit the same mindset as yours, you got the impression that this game has a focus on open PvP...you were looking for a game like that, so you read into it what wasn't written there.
If this game was the one you are saying it is, open PPV would be clearly announced on the feature page. And Virtus stated that PvP is NOT the MAIN ELEMENT of the game...I simply can't understand how can you overlook these informations.

Don't worry Jadzia, I'm with ya but there's no point. I have tried as well.

JCatano
03-23-2010, 05:34 PM
Jadzia -

Please explain how open-PvP plays a minor role in a game. Any game with open-PvP will have a lot of if going on. Not only that, but any game with tribe wars is going to have a lot of PvP. Xsyon has both. I'm not sure if they ever said PvP wasn't going to be a big part, but I know they said that ganking/griefing was not going to be.

If you really think that PvP is going to be minor part of the game, then you're not being realistic. And I'm not trying to turn this game into FFA-PvP. It already had it before I knew this MMO existed.

So, I think the real question is... Why are you trying to change the focus with regard to the PvP portion of the game?

I'm glad the devs do not want continuous/mindless ganking, but that is different than meaningful PvP (tribe wars, fighting over resources, etc.).

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 05:38 PM
sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

You decided to get involved with a game that stated open-PvP is the mechanic. I think the problem for some people is that you're basically saying you want to change that fundamental decision to where PvP is optional/mutual. Well, you do have an option... Play or don't play.


You are wrong. I got involved with this game when its site didn't even have forum. I read the feature list and i was amazed...it sounded too good to be true. There was no mention at all about PvP, especially not about open PvP. I'm more and more sure that its not me who got the wrong impression about the game, but you. You keep saying that PvP is fundamental here, and Xsyon keep refute you. Still it seems you somehow don't get it...why ? I got involved with a great sandbox game with minor PvP, but you try to turn it into an FFA PvP focus game...why ?



You've expressed that PvP is not fun for you, so why think about playing a game with open-PvP?

As I said, I have no problem with open PvP as long as its rare and severely punished, and the developer said it will be like that here.



You keep talking about "PK'ers" forcing a playstyle onto you... Well, isn't that a bit ironic? Should they be forced to deal with your safe-flag? Your PvP zones? There is an immersion factor involved. It's not only about ganking Jadzia simply because they can, although that can happen.

Why would it be ironic ? They need me as a victim...I don't need them at all to enjoy the game. So I don't force anything on them. And whats wrong with the immersion in outlaw areas ? Its much more realistic too.



Again, I am 100% for meaningful PvP and more things to do than just PK. I'm bored in Darkfall, because that's all there is. It's stale. Someone linked Xsyon in the forums and many of us were happy to see that the mechanics were much deeper, but also to see that it still had twitch-gameplay and open-PvP.

So... Here I am.

Yes...and since you got to know the game through other players whit the same mindset as yours, you got the impression that this game has a focus on open PvP...you were looking for a game like that, so you read into it what wasn't written there.
If this game was the one you are saying it is, open PPV would be clearly announced on the feature page. And Virtus stated that PvP is NOT the MAIN ELEMENT of the game...I simply can't understand how can you overlook these informations.

Don't worry Jadzia, I'm with ya but there's no point. I have tried as well.
You are probably right, but I'm optimistic :laugh:

sisler86
03-23-2010, 05:42 PM
JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

Please explain how open-PvP plays a minor role in a game. Any game with open-PvP will have a lot of if going on. Not only that, but any game with tribe wars is going to have a lot of PvP. Xsyon has both. I'm not sure if they ever said PvP wasn't going to be a big part, but I know they said that ganking/griefing was not going to be.

If you really think that PvP is going to be minor part of the game, then you're not being realistic. And I'm not trying to turn this game into FFA-PvP. It already had it before I knew this MMO existed.

So, I think the real question is... Why are you trying to change the focus with regard to the PvP portion of the game?

I'm glad the devs do not want continuous/mindless ganking, but that is different than meaningful PvP (tribe wars, fighting over resources, etc.).

If you seriously have never seen it stated that PvP will play a minor role in this game then you obviouly haven't read this entire post. It has been said more than once here and in other threads as well. If you really want I can copy and paste links for you.

JCatano
03-23-2010, 05:42 PM
By the way Jadzia... The open-PvP statement comes directly from the developer himself via a post explaining how PvP works. Just because it's not on the feature page doesn't mean it's not in.

I'm not sure why you're trying to convince yourself that it isn't a part of the game.

necoo
03-23-2010, 05:45 PM
this has got to be the fastest growing topic on this forum... well whatever

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 05:58 PM
JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

Please explain how open-PvP plays a minor role in a game. Any game with open-PvP will have a lot of if going on. Not only that, but any game with tribe wars is going to have a lot of PvP. Xsyon has both. I'm not sure if they ever said PvP wasn't going to be a big part, but I know they said that ganking/griefing was not going to be.

If you really think that PvP is going to be minor part of the game, then you're not being realistic. And I'm not trying to turn this game into FFA-PvP. It already had it before I knew this MMO existed.

So, I think the real question is... Why are you trying to change the focus with regard to the PvP portion of the game?

I'm glad the devs do not want continuous/mindless ganking, but that is different than meaningful PvP (tribe wars, fighting over resources, etc.).

PvP will be minor, if there are so sever consequences that people will only PvP with a very good reason. Tribe wars, fights for resources aren't open PvP in my book, they are organized PvP with mutual agreement ( Read Xsyon's post about loot agreements between tribe leaders)

I think the problem is that you can't imagine that a game can be fun without the fighting part dominating...I guess you have never played a game which wasn't built around combat. And I agree, if combat is the focus, that game better have good PvP. But if the focus is not combat, and the gameplay is planned and presented well, you won't feel the need of PvPing to have fun...I have played a game where I haven't worn my armor for 2 months, I was so busy with other activities.

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 06:00 PM
JCatano wrote:

By the way Jadzia... The open-PvP statement comes directly from the developer himself via a post explaining how PvP works. Just because it's not on the feature page doesn't mean it's not in.

I'm not sure why you're trying to convince yourself that it isn't a part of the game.

I'm not saying its not the part of the game...I'm saying it has a minor part.

JCatano
03-23-2010, 06:09 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

Please explain how open-PvP plays a minor role in a game. Any game with open-PvP will have a lot of if going on. Not only that, but any game with tribe wars is going to have a lot of PvP. Xsyon has both. I'm not sure if they ever said PvP wasn't going to be a big part, but I know they said that ganking/griefing was not going to be.

If you really think that PvP is going to be minor part of the game, then you're not being realistic. And I'm not trying to turn this game into FFA-PvP. It already had it before I knew this MMO existed.

So, I think the real question is... Why are you trying to change the focus with regard to the PvP portion of the game?

I'm glad the devs do not want continuous/mindless ganking, but that is different than meaningful PvP (tribe wars, fighting over resources, etc.).

PvP will be minor, if there are so sever consequences that people will only PvP with a very good reason. Tribe wars, fights for resources aren't open PvP in my book, they are organized PvP with mutual agreement ( Read Xsyon's post about loot agreements between tribe leaders)

I think the problem is that you can't imagine that a game can be fun without the fighting part dominating...I guess you have never played a game which wasn't built around combat. And I agree, if combat is the focus, that game better have good PvP. But if the focus is not combat, and the gameplay is planned and presented well, you won't feel the need of PvPing to have fun...I have played a game where I haven't worn my armor for 2 months, I was so busy with other activities.

No, the problem is that when I say "open-PvP" you automatically start thinking about ganking/griefing even when I've explained that the latter and "PvP" are 2 different things. I even said how I'm bored in Darkfall, because that's all there is to do for the most part, but you completely ignore that and still make the bold statement.

Open-PvP is simply a mechanic. Remember that.

I never said PvP was the sole focus. Maybe you need to read my posts and pay attention to what I'm saying and not the phrases you have defined in your own head. What I did say is that PvP will not be minor or an aftethought. You will be involved with PvP at times whether you like it or not. That's what the open-PvP mechanic does.

Your only safe-spot will be in within a village during early Prelude:

Xsyon:

Here's the current set up for the early Prelude:

Tribes can set the level of PVP in their town. It can be set to
protected and not allow PVP at all within the village, so villages will likely be safe zones until they have time to build walls and we implement more safe guards that players can control.

Evil tribes can't be set to protected, so evil players are open to being attacked at all times.

Perma death is something for the future, but it's not just from old age. This will have to be explained later.

The overall goal will be to constantly balance things so that both good and evil can enjoy the game. A PVP gankfest will definitely not be allowed if that starts to happen.

I hope that answers the question. I know I'm a bit vague about some planned features, but that's the fun of the game.

---

See the red? "Gankfest". That's what they hope to make a minor occurrence... Not "PvP". They want PvP with a purpose, and that's a good thing.

Dominus
03-23-2010, 06:31 PM
Jadzia wrote:

I've read through the posts, and I saw even PvP players were admitting their server would die without non-PvPers, one of them even said he would leave if a server split happened (thanks, Dominus, your post really made me feel wanted ;) ) If you guys need us so bad, why don't you give some respect to our playstyle? Why do you keep saying 'stay in town if you are scared', 'watch your back if you are too stupid to fight', 'you are a carebear, QQ more' ?
Don't flatter yourself, honey. I only said that because I need someone who'd craft me stuff.
I'm not a crafter/gatherer nor will I ever be. Splitting the community into 2 servers would literally kill the game and I don't fancy playing a dead game.
You need us warriors/hunters as much as we need you carebears, be it either for gear or cannon fodder(victims). We provide you with the materials and you craft the products. And we provide protection.

Jadzia wrote:

My last post before I'm off to bed :) 4 billion less people ? There are 6 billion people in the world now, if you take out 4 billions we're gonna have an empty planet. This planet can feed 6 billion people without problem, lol farmers in Europe get paid NOT to graw corn and wheat, and NOT to keep cows and sheep. I agree a world without war is an utopia, but as long as you think that war is not something awful but necessary and good, we will never get rid of it.
Are you ignorant or just uneducated? I'm slowly beginning to see a pattern in your bigoted behavior.
The planet can't sustain 7bil people and it's needs for much longer. To produce food, you need energy and more food(grain that goes into livestock feed and biofuels).
Once the fossil fuels/waters run out and all the major rivers/lakes dry up we're gonna be screwed very soon.
As it stands, the poor people are starving and the rich get richer. There might be enough food for everyone, but there isn't.
Right now, ~5000 people a day die because of dirty drinking water.
Another 1bil people don't even have access to safe drinking water.
And another 1bil are suffering from hunger.

Do us a favor and leave your fantasy world at home and smell the air outside.


tl;dr - We're all basicly speculating about the game mechanics.
But we know for certain there's going to be PvP.
Tribes are going to war each other and you will be caught in the middle of it, even when you don't want to fight. And there will be times when you'll be ganked mercilessly. But that's not gonna happen very often due to harsh consequences.
And I'll be damned if I let a bunch of carebears ruin yet another potentially great game like Ultima Online with their whine and great ideas(prison? lolz).

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 06:32 PM
JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

Please explain how open-PvP plays a minor role in a game. Any game with open-PvP will have a lot of if going on. Not only that, but any game with tribe wars is going to have a lot of PvP. Xsyon has both. I'm not sure if they ever said PvP wasn't going to be a big part, but I know they said that ganking/griefing was not going to be.

If you really think that PvP is going to be minor part of the game, then you're not being realistic. And I'm not trying to turn this game into FFA-PvP. It already had it before I knew this MMO existed.

So, I think the real question is... Why are you trying to change the focus with regard to the PvP portion of the game?

I'm glad the devs do not want continuous/mindless ganking, but that is different than meaningful PvP (tribe wars, fighting over resources, etc.).

PvP will be minor, if there are so sever consequences that people will only PvP with a very good reason. Tribe wars, fights for resources aren't open PvP in my book, they are organized PvP with mutual agreement ( Read Xsyon's post about loot agreements between tribe leaders)

I think the problem is that you can't imagine that a game can be fun without the fighting part dominating...I guess you have never played a game which wasn't built around combat. And I agree, if combat is the focus, that game better have good PvP. But if the focus is not combat, and the gameplay is planned and presented well, you won't feel the need of PvPing to have fun...I have played a game where I haven't worn my armor for 2 months, I was so busy with other activities.

No, the problem is that when I say "open-PvP" you automatically start thinking about ganking/griefing even when I've explained that the latter and "PvP" are 2 different things. I even said how I'm bored in Darkfall, because that's all there is to do for the most part, but you completely ignore that and still make the bold statement.

Open-PvP is simply a mechanic. Remember that.

I never said PvP was the sole focus. Maybe you need to read my posts and pay attention to what I'm saying and not the phrases you have defined in your own head. What I did say is that PvP will not be minor or an aftethought. You will be involved with PvP at times whether you like it or not. That's what the open-PvP mechanic does.

Your only safe-spot will be in within a village during early Prelude:

Xsyon:

Here's the current set up for the early Prelude:

Tribes can set the level of PVP in their town. It can be set to
protected and not allow PVP at all within the village, so villages will likely be safe zones until they have time to build walls and we implement more safe guards that players can control.

Evil tribes can't be set to protected, so evil players are open to being attacked at all times.

Perma death is something for the future, but it's not just from old age. This will have to be explained later.

The overall goal will be to constantly balance things so that both good and evil can enjoy the game. A PVP gankfest will definitely not be allowed if that starts to happen.

I hope that answers the question. I know I'm a bit vague about some planned features, but that's the fun of the game.

---

See the red? "Gankfest". That's what they hope to make a minor occurrence... Not "PvP". They want PvP with a purpose, and that's a good thing.

Lol I think we really don't understand each other. I say open PvP will have minor part, you start to argue like I've said it won't even exist. I say you can't imagine enjoying a non-combat focused game, you say you are bored if you have nothing to do but combat.
Its not the same... And at the same time you complain too that I don't read or don't understand your post. So I guess our debate is pointless, we say the same words but still we don't have an understanding about what they mean.

All I can say is that we will see...I hope the game will fill your hopes, and I hope it will fill mine too. I won't disturb you enjoying your game...and I expect the same from you :)

PANZERBUNNY
03-23-2010, 06:49 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

Please explain how open-PvP plays a minor role in a game. Any game with open-PvP will have a lot of if going on. Not only that, but any game with tribe wars is going to have a lot of PvP. Xsyon has both. I'm not sure if they ever said PvP wasn't going to be a big part, but I know they said that ganking/griefing was not going to be.

If you really think that PvP is going to be minor part of the game, then you're not being realistic. And I'm not trying to turn this game into FFA-PvP. It already had it before I knew this MMO existed.

So, I think the real question is... Why are you trying to change the focus with regard to the PvP portion of the game?

I'm glad the devs do not want continuous/mindless ganking, but that is different than meaningful PvP (tribe wars, fighting over resources, etc.).

PvP will be minor, if there are so sever consequences that people will only PvP with a very good reason. Tribe wars, fights for resources aren't open PvP in my book, they are organized PvP with mutual agreement ( Read Xsyon's post about loot agreements between tribe leaders)

I think the problem is that you can't imagine that a game can be fun without the fighting part dominating...I guess you have never played a game which wasn't built around combat. And I agree, if combat is the focus, that game better have good PvP. But if the focus is not combat, and the gameplay is planned and presented well, you won't feel the need of PvPing to have fun...I have played a game where I haven't worn my armor for 2 months, I was so busy with other activities.

No, the problem is that when I say "open-PvP" you automatically start thinking about ganking/griefing even when I've explained that the latter and "PvP" are 2 different things. I even said how I'm bored in Darkfall, because that's all there is to do for the most part, but you completely ignore that and still make the bold statement.

Open-PvP is simply a mechanic. Remember that.

I never said PvP was the sole focus. Maybe you need to read my posts and pay attention to what I'm saying and not the phrases you have defined in your own head. What I did say is that PvP will not be minor or an aftethought. You will be involved with PvP at times whether you like it or not. That's what the open-PvP mechanic does.

Your only safe-spot will be in within a village during early Prelude:

Xsyon:

Here's the current set up for the early Prelude:

Tribes can set the level of PVP in their town. It can be set to
protected and not allow PVP at all within the village, so villages will likely be safe zones until they have time to build walls and we implement more safe guards that players can control.

Evil tribes can't be set to protected, so evil players are open to being attacked at all times.

Perma death is something for the future, but it's not just from old age. This will have to be explained later.

The overall goal will be to constantly balance things so that both good and evil can enjoy the game. A PVP gankfest will definitely not be allowed if that starts to happen.

I hope that answers the question. I know I'm a bit vague about some planned features, but that's the fun of the game.

---

See the red? "Gankfest". That's what they hope to make a minor occurrence... Not "PvP". They want PvP with a purpose, and that's a good thing.

Lol I think we really don't understand each other. I say open PvP will have minor part, you start to argue like I've said it won't even exist. I say you can't imagine enjoying a non-combat focused game, you say you are bored if you have nothing to do but combat.
Its not the same... And at the same time you complain too that I don't read or don't understand your post. So I guess our debate is pointless, we say the same words but still we don't have an understanding about what they mean.

All I can say is that we will see...I hope the game will fill your hopes, and I hope it will fill mine too. I won't disturb you enjoying your game...and I expect the same from you :)

It wont have a minor part though.

That is wishful thinking on YOUR part.

I have a feeling you will be severly let down when you actually get in game and see how things will flow.

p.s Tribe wars and fighting for resources is open PVP.

And SINCE they are including an evil alignment...you'll be able to whack on womever you want and take the consequences.

JCatano
03-23-2010, 06:49 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia -

Please explain how open-PvP plays a minor role in a game. Any game with open-PvP will have a lot of if going on. Not only that, but any game with tribe wars is going to have a lot of PvP. Xsyon has both. I'm not sure if they ever said PvP wasn't going to be a big part, but I know they said that ganking/griefing was not going to be.

If you really think that PvP is going to be minor part of the game, then you're not being realistic. And I'm not trying to turn this game into FFA-PvP. It already had it before I knew this MMO existed.

So, I think the real question is... Why are you trying to change the focus with regard to the PvP portion of the game?

I'm glad the devs do not want continuous/mindless ganking, but that is different than meaningful PvP (tribe wars, fighting over resources, etc.).

PvP will be minor, if there are so sever consequences that people will only PvP with a very good reason. Tribe wars, fights for resources aren't open PvP in my book, they are organized PvP with mutual agreement ( Read Xsyon's post about loot agreements between tribe leaders)

I think the problem is that you can't imagine that a game can be fun without the fighting part dominating...I guess you have never played a game which wasn't built around combat. And I agree, if combat is the focus, that game better have good PvP. But if the focus is not combat, and the gameplay is planned and presented well, you won't feel the need of PvPing to have fun...I have played a game where I haven't worn my armor for 2 months, I was so busy with other activities.

No, the problem is that when I say "open-PvP" you automatically start thinking about ganking/griefing even when I've explained that the latter and "PvP" are 2 different things. I even said how I'm bored in Darkfall, because that's all there is to do for the most part, but you completely ignore that and still make the bold statement.

Open-PvP is simply a mechanic. Remember that.

I never said PvP was the sole focus. Maybe you need to read my posts and pay attention to what I'm saying and not the phrases you have defined in your own head. What I did say is that PvP will not be minor or an aftethought. You will be involved with PvP at times whether you like it or not. That's what the open-PvP mechanic does.

Your only safe-spot will be in within a village during early Prelude:

Xsyon:

Here's the current set up for the early Prelude:

Tribes can set the level of PVP in their town. It can be set to
protected and not allow PVP at all within the village, so villages will likely be safe zones until they have time to build walls and we implement more safe guards that players can control.

Evil tribes can't be set to protected, so evil players are open to being attacked at all times.

Perma death is something for the future, but it's not just from old age. This will have to be explained later.

The overall goal will be to constantly balance things so that both good and evil can enjoy the game. A PVP gankfest will definitely not be allowed if that starts to happen.

I hope that answers the question. I know I'm a bit vague about some planned features, but that's the fun of the game.

---

See the red? "Gankfest". That's what they hope to make a minor occurrence... Not "PvP". They want PvP with a purpose, and that's a good thing.

Lol I think we really don't understand each other. I say open PvP will have minor part, you start to argue like I've said it won't even exist. I say you can't imagine enjoying a non-combat focused game, you say you are bored if you have nothing to do but combat.
Its not the same... And at the same time you complain too that I don't read or don't understand your post. So I guess our debate is pointless, we say the same words but still we don't have an understanding about what they mean.

All I can say is that we will see...I hope the game will fill your hopes, and I hope it will fill mine too. I won't disturb you enjoying your game...and I expect the same from you :)

You don't like PvP. You said it many times, already. You don't want to take part in it, even though you later veil that by saying you don't mind purposeful PvP. So, forgive me for being confused.

If you're chopping wood, and I want it, then PK you... Is that disturbing your enjoyment? It's part of "open-PvP", and I need that wood for my tribe... Meaningful PvP. ;)

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 06:57 PM
Dominus wrote:


Don't flatter yourself, honey. I only said that because I need someone who'd craft me stuff.
I'm not a crafter/gatherer nor will I ever be. Splitting the community into 2 servers would literally kill the game and I don't fancy playing a dead game.
You need us warriors/hunters as much as we need you carebears, be it either for gear or cannon fodder(victims). We provide you with the materials and you craft the products. And we provide protection.

Materials ? I don't need any materials from you...I can get all what I need myself. And protection ? I don't need any protection on a PVE server.



Are you ignorant or just uneducated?

I can email my diploma of programming mathematician if you wish.



I'm slowly beginning to see a pattern in your bigoted behavior.
The planet can't sustain 7bil people and it's needs for much longer. To produce food, you need energy and more food(grain that goes into livestock feed and biofuels).
Once the fossil fuels/waters run out and all the major rivers/lakes dry up we're gonna be screwed very soon.
As it stands, the poor people are starving and the rich get richer. There might be enough food for everyone, but there isn't.
Right now, ~5000 people a day die because of dirty drinking water.
Another 1bil people don't even have access to safe drinking water.
And another 1bil are suffering from hunger.

Do us a favor and leave your fantasy world at home and smell the air outside.


Do you live in the USA ? So far I've only seen people from there with such a narrow-minded thinking. Thats the excuse you use to set your mind at ease ? This planet IS able to feed not only 6 billion, but even more. There is enough food right now on the Earth for everyone, still Americans are fat, Africans are starving...wonder why ? Again, there IS enough food...the problem
its not distributed equally. Don't pick on this now though, I admit I have no idea how it could be equal...but that doesn't change the fact we have enough food for everyone. The huge health problem with fat people in USA and Europe turned up because there is much more food there than needed. And you need only human energy to produce food, if you have ever seen films of the economy in the poor part of Africa or India you will see people don't use tractors there.

Read any article about the economy in Europe, and you will see the problem here is the over-production in the farming sector. Farmers in my country goes to the Parliament every year and pour out potato and tomato on the ground, because they protest against that no one wants to buy it.

Forget the preconceptions and excuses you have, and see the facts.

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 07:05 PM
JCatano wrote:


You don't like PvP. You said it many times, already. You don't want to take part in it, even though you later veil that by saying you don't mind purposeful PvP. So, forgive me for being confused.

If you're chopping wood, and I want it, then PK you... Is that disturbing your enjoyment? It's part of "open-PvP", and I need that wood for my tribe... Meaningful PvP. ;)

I don't mind meaningful PvP, since it freshens up the economy, but I don't want to take part in it. I love PvPers loosing their gears in fights, since they will have to buy a new one :P

If you try to kill me to get my wood ( you might be surprised though if you try :P ) that doesn't disturb me so much...though I'd think you are such a lazy one lol. If you tried to kill me because you were bored that would disturb me a lot.

PS. Why you guys are soo lazy ?? Its always me who have to edit out these extremely long posts :angry:

PANZERBUNNY
03-23-2010, 07:11 PM
Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:


You don't like PvP. You said it many times, already. You don't want to take part in it, even though you later veil that by saying you don't mind purposeful PvP. So, forgive me for being confused.

If you're chopping wood, and I want it, then PK you... Is that disturbing your enjoyment? It's part of "open-PvP", and I need that wood for my tribe... Meaningful PvP. ;)

I don't mind meaningful PvP, since it freshens up the economy, but I don't want to take part in it. I love PvPers loosing their gears in fights, since they will have to buy a new one :P

If you try to kill me to get my wood ( you might be surprised though if you try :P ) that doesn't disturb me so much...though I'd think you are such a lazy one lol. If you tried to kill me because you were bored that would disturb me a lot.

You seem like you dont want to take part in ANYTHING besides what YOU want to do. why not leave it at that and stop the QQing about people being able to walk along and smack you with a club and take your rabbit feet.

Lets not bring political and economical bullshit into a topic that should have nothing to do with such things.

This conversation has run its course. Please lock it.

sisler86
03-23-2010, 07:11 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Dominus wrote:


Don't flatter yourself, honey. I only said that because I need someone who'd craft me stuff.
I'm not a crafter/gatherer nor will I ever be. Splitting the community into 2 servers would literally kill the game and I don't fancy playing a dead game.
You need us warriors/hunters as much as we need you carebears, be it either for gear or cannon fodder(victims). We provide you with the materials and you craft the products. And we provide protection.

Materials ? I don't need any materials from you...I can get all what I need myself. And protection ? I don't need any protection on a PVE server.



Are you ignorant or just uneducated?

I can email my diploma of programming mathematician if you wish.



I'm slowly beginning to see a pattern in your bigoted behavior.
The planet can't sustain 7bil people and it's needs for much longer. To produce food, you need energy and more food(grain that goes into livestock feed and biofuels).
Once the fossil fuels/waters run out and all the major rivers/lakes dry up we're gonna be screwed very soon.
As it stands, the poor people are starving and the rich get richer. There might be enough food for everyone, but there isn't.
Right now, ~5000 people a day die because of dirty drinking water.
Another 1bil people don't even have access to safe drinking water.
And another 1bil are suffering from hunger.

Do us a favor and leave your fantasy world at home and smell the air outside.


Do you live in the USA ? So far I've only seen people from there with such a narrow-minded thinking. Thats the excuse you use to set your mind at ease ? This planet IS able to feed not only 6 billion, but even more. There is enough food right now on the Earth for everyone, still Americans are fat, Africans are starving...wonder why ? Again, there IS enough food...the problem
its not distributed equally. Don't pick on this now though, I admit I have no idea how it could be equal...but that doesn't change the fact we have enough food for everyone. The huge health problem with fat people in USA and Europe turned up because there is much more food there than needed. And you need only human energy to produce food, if you have ever seen films of the economy in the poor part of Africa or India you will see people don't use tractors there.

Read any article about the economy in Europe, and you will see the problem here is the over-production in the farming sector. Farmers in my country goes to the Parliament every year and pour out potato and tomato on the ground, because they protest against that no one wants to buy it.

Forget the preconceptions and excuses you have, and see the facts.

Hey now Jadzia. Don't be hating on the U.S. I'm a proud American, but I'm definitely not narrow minded. :P

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 07:22 PM
sisler86 wrote:


Hey now Jadzia. Don't be hating on the U.S. I'm a proud American, but I'm definitely not narrow minded. :P

I'm no way hating on them, I've got great friends there :) I didn't say everyone is like that there, only that so far I've only met people from USA with that narrow minded view of the world. But in no way I mean all of them. If you check the rest of the post you will see I mentioned Europe as a bad example too (I'm European myself).

sisler86
03-23-2010, 07:26 PM
Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:


Hey now Jadzia. Don't be hating on the U.S. I'm a proud American, but I'm definitely not narrow minded. :P

I'm no way hating on them, I've got great friends there :) I didn't say everyone is like that there, only that so far I've only met people from USA with that narrow minded view of the world. But in no way I mean all of them. If you check the rest of the post you will see I mentioned Europe as a bad example too (I'm European myself).

lol, It's all good. I was just giving you crap. I know all too well how we Americans can be sometimes. :laugh:

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 07:28 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:


Lets not bring political and economical bullshit into a topic that should have nothing to do with such things.

I totally agree with that, I have no idea how we got here lol.



This conversation has run its course. Please lock it.

I don't mind it being closed, but really, anyone is forcing you to read it ?

PANZERBUNNY
03-23-2010, 07:31 PM
Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:


Lets not bring political and economical bullshit into a topic that should have nothing to do with such things.

I totally agree with that, I have no idea how we got here lol.



This conversation has run its course. Please lock it.

I don't mind it being closed, but really, anyone is forcing you to read it ?

You've made your point, but fail to acknowledge or even bend when people make a counter point.
Its useless in debating at this point as all that will come of this is a flame war..so..yes. It should be locked and no..I'm not being forced.

sisler86
03-23-2010, 07:35 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:


Lets not bring political and economical bullshit into a topic that should have nothing to do with such things.

I totally agree with that, I have no idea how we got here lol.



This conversation has run its course. Please lock it.

I don't mind it being closed, but really, anyone is forcing you to read it ?

You've made your point, but fail to acknowledge or even bend when people make a counter point.
Its useless in debating at this point as all that will come of this is a flame war..so..yes. It should be locked and no..I'm not being forced.

By that logic (which I happen to agree with) debating is pointless period. When you debate, you rarely ever convince others of your view. I know the irony is that I have been part of this debate, but there is just something fun about a good old fashion argument. :P

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 07:36 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:


You've made your point, but fail to acknowledge or even bend when people make a counter point.
Its useless in debating at this point as all that will come of this is a flame war..so..yes. It should be locked and no..I'm not being forced.

I don't know what counter point means, dictionary is clueless too.
I kind of agree with you, and on the former page I said this debate is pointless and tried to finish it...but you replied lol and JCatano did too, so we just kept going.

PANZERBUNNY
03-23-2010, 07:38 PM
sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:


Lets not bring political and economical bullshit into a topic that should have nothing to do with such things.

I totally agree with that, I have no idea how we got here lol.



This conversation has run its course. Please lock it.

I don't mind it being closed, but really, anyone is forcing you to read it ?

You've made your point, but fail to acknowledge or even bend when people make a counter point.
Its useless in debating at this point as all that will come of this is a flame war..so..yes. It should be locked and no..I'm not being forced.

By that logic (which I happen to agree with) debating is pointless period. When you debate, you rarely ever convince others of your view. I know the irony is that I have been part of this debate, but there is just something fun about a good old fashion argument. :P

ya, but in a debate you must make a sensible counter or you LOSE the debate. Lets think debate team here folks hehe.

All I've read is alot of QQ. Thats about it. I see it from both angles and neither form of gameplay will be "minor", ESPECIALLY when it comes to PVP.

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 07:41 PM
sisler86 wrote:


By that logic (which I happen to agree with) debating is pointless period. When you debate, you rarely ever convince others of your view. I know the irony is that I have been part of this debate, but there is just something fun about a good old fashion argument. :P

Yeah, perhaps we are too bored while waiting for the game :P But anyway, I find it useful, I can get to know people through debates...even if that has nothing to do with the the main goal of the debate. But the way people argue, as they get personal and rude or not shows a lot. So I will know where to look for like-minded people in game :)

sisler86
03-23-2010, 07:42 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:


Lets not bring political and economical bullshit into a topic that should have nothing to do with such things.

I totally agree with that, I have no idea how we got here lol.



This conversation has run its course. Please lock it.

I don't mind it being closed, but really, anyone is forcing you to read it ?

You've made your point, but fail to acknowledge or even bend when people make a counter point.
Its useless in debating at this point as all that will come of this is a flame war..so..yes. It should be locked and no..I'm not being forced.

By that logic (which I happen to agree with) debating is pointless period. When you debate, you rarely ever convince others of your view. I know the irony is that I have been part of this debate, but there is just something fun about a good old fashion argument. :P

ya, but in a debate you must make a sensible counter or you LOSE the debate. Lets think debate team here folks hehe.

All I've read is alot of QQ. Thats about it. I see it from both angles and neither form of gameplay will be "minor", ESPECIALLY when it comes to PVP.

well if we gave in then it wouldn't be much of a debate now would it :P

In any case, I truly believe that no one has anything to worry about because I think we will all find our place as the community expands and evolves.

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 07:44 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:


ya, but in a debate you must make a sensible counter or you LOSE the debate. Lets think debate team here folks hehe.

All I've read is alot of QQ. Thats about it. I see it from both angles and neither form of gameplay will be "minor", ESPECIALLY when it comes to PVP.

Again, I don't know what is counter...dictionary says its the bottom part of kitchen furniture but i guess you didn't mean that...

And I don't want to start all over again...but you have closed mind for my arguments, so no wonder you only see QQ.

sisler86
03-23-2010, 07:47 PM
Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:


ya, but in a debate you must make a sensible counter or you LOSE the debate. Lets think debate team here folks hehe.

All I've read is alot of QQ. Thats about it. I see it from both angles and neither form of gameplay will be "minor", ESPECIALLY when it comes to PVP.

Again, I don't know what is counter...dictionary says its the bottom part of kitchen furniture but i guess you didn't mean that...

And I don't want to start all over again...but you have closed mind for my arguments, so no wonder you only see QQ.

lol, Jadzia........................... You are awesome! :lol:

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 07:51 PM
sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:


ya, but in a debate you must make a sensible counter or you LOSE the debate. Lets think debate team here folks hehe.

All I've read is alot of QQ. Thats about it. I see it from both angles and neither form of gameplay will be "minor", ESPECIALLY when it comes to PVP.

Again, I don't know what is counter...dictionary says its the bottom part of kitchen furniture but i guess you didn't mean that...

And I don't want to start all over again...but you have closed mind for my arguments, so no wonder you only see QQ.

lol, Jadzia........................... You are awesome! :lol:

Ty ty B)

PANZERBUNNY
03-23-2010, 08:20 PM
Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:


ya, but in a debate you must make a sensible counter or you LOSE the debate. Lets think debate team here folks hehe.

All I've read is alot of QQ. Thats about it. I see it from both angles and neither form of gameplay will be "minor", ESPECIALLY when it comes to PVP.

Again, I don't know what is counter...dictionary says its the bottom part of kitchen furniture but i guess you didn't mean that...

And I don't want to start all over again...but you have closed mind for my arguments, so no wonder you only see QQ.


I dont have a closed mind for your argument at all. I know what you're trying to say and I know that its not going to end up that way.
More than a few people were trying to explain how and why pvp is important, even for a game that will have MANY MANY MANY PVP features.
Whatever though.

I'm sure I'll be seeing your QQ in "global chat" when your "bears tongues" are being looted by a red.

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 08:37 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:


I'm sure I'll be seeing your QQ in "global chat" when your "bears tongues" are being looted by a red.

I never talk on global chat, only if I want to trade or LFG. I hope there won't even be global chat here, I think somewhere I've read about it. And just to let you know lol...I've played an FFA PvP game for 1 and half years because of a friend ( I was bored out of my mind after half a year). Never complained because it was my choice to play that game. And QQing...it shows your mindset so well, thinking in schemas...if I get PKed in a game, I take revenge if I feel so ( almost never), I call a friend to kill the PKer ( often), I ignore it (often if I didn't loose anything and getting killed was only a free teleport to the town). QQing in global chat is totally pointless and useless, its for children.

sisler86
03-23-2010, 08:41 PM
Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:


I'm sure I'll be seeing your QQ in "global chat" when your "bears tongues" are being looted by a red.

I never talk on global chat, only if I want to trade or LFG. I hope there won't even be global chat here, I think somewhere I've read about it. And just to let you know lol...I've played an FFA PvP game for 1 and half years because of a friend ( I was bored out of my mind after half a year). Never complained because it was my choice to play that game. And QQing...it shows your mindset so well, thinking in schemas...if I get PKed in a game, I take revenge if I feel so ( almost never), I call a friend to kill the PKer ( often), I ignore it (often if I didn't loose anything and getting killed was only a free teleport to the town). QQing in global chat is totally pointless and useless, its for children.

I don't mean to sound all dare I say "noobish" here, but what exactly is QQing? :blush:

Bedouin
03-23-2010, 08:43 PM
crying, complaining, having a fit .. that sort of thing

I'm guessing its because QQ looks like eyes with tears perhaps?

sisler86
03-23-2010, 08:48 PM
Bedouin wrote:

crying, complaining, having a fit .. that sort of thing

I'm guessing its because QQ looks like eyes with tears perhaps?

I see...................... :huh:

Silly people and their clever little lingo.

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 08:55 PM
sisler86 wrote:

Bedouin wrote:

crying, complaining, having a fit .. that sort of thing

I'm guessing its because QQ looks like eyes with tears perhaps?

I see...................... :huh:

Silly people and their clever little lingo.

True :) QQ and carebear...these two has always been mysterious for me, until I looked up QQ once, and today I got to know where that carebear came from...Yay ! I still don't understand though, why some people use it as an insult, those bears looked cute.

Bedouin
03-23-2010, 08:58 PM
Yeah, i'm waiting for the My Little Ponies and the Strawberry Short Cakes to come into play.

I think anyone who calls people that don't game with stark lunacy and frenzy a "carebear" should be referred to as a power ranger.

sisler86
03-23-2010, 09:02 PM
Bedouin wrote:

Yeah, i'm waiting for the My Little Ponies and the Strawberry Short Cakes to come into play.

I think anyone who calls people that don't game with stark lunacy and frenzy a "carebear" should be referred to as a power ranger.

Dude! I love it! From now on, all hardcore PvP's are called Power Rangers :laugh:

Jadzia
03-23-2010, 09:03 PM
sisler86 wrote:

Bedouin wrote:

Yeah, i'm waiting for the My Little Ponies and the Strawberry Short Cakes to come into play.

I think anyone who calls people that don't game with stark lunacy and frenzy a "carebear" should be referred to as a power ranger.

Dude! I love it! From now on, all hardcore PvP's are called Power Rangers :laugh:

LOL :woohoo: Good night guys, see you all tomorrow :)

PANZERBUNNY
03-23-2010, 09:04 PM
Bedouin wrote:

Yeah, i'm waiting for the My Little Ponies and the Strawberry Short Cakes to come into play.

I think anyone who calls people that don't game with stark lunacy and frenzy a "carebear" should be referred to as a power ranger.

I think people refer to certain players as "carebears" because all they do is whine whine whine about losing some stuff, getting killed etc

Wanting to be a crafter doesn't make you a carebear, but someone who thinks that they should be protected in an open sandbox environment is.

sisler86
03-23-2010, 09:06 PM
Nite Jadzia

sisler86
03-23-2010, 09:08 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Bedouin wrote:

Yeah, i'm waiting for the My Little Ponies and the Strawberry Short Cakes to come into play.

I think anyone who calls people that don't game with stark lunacy and frenzy a "carebear" should be referred to as a power ranger.

I think people refer to certain players as "carebears" because all they do is whine whine whine about losing some stuff, getting killed etc

Wanting to be a crafter doesn't make you a carebear, but someone who thinks that they should be protected in an open sandbox environment is.

Here's the $1,000,000 question though. Which is worse? Whining or name calling? :laugh:

Bedouin
03-23-2010, 09:09 PM
sisler86 wrote:

Bedouin wrote:

Yeah, i'm waiting for the My Little Ponies and the Strawberry Short Cakes to come into play.

I think anyone who calls people that don't game with stark lunacy and frenzy a "carebear" should be referred to as a power ranger.

Dude! I love it! From now on, all hardcore PvP's are called Power Rangers :laugh:

Heh. Just those funky gankers with names like EyEpwnJ00mama and LeGG0lass0111. The kind of ppl that would take being called a Power Ranger as a compliment. Lol.

I personally like FFA pvp as long as there are consequences. And I have to admit, i'm guilty of a bit of griefing ... though I try to limit it to more of a vigilante type of thing and it's always in RP. Y'know like the hooker with a heart of gold.

necoo
03-23-2010, 10:49 PM
Bedouin wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Bedouin wrote:

Yeah, i'm waiting for the My Little Ponies and the Strawberry Short Cakes to come into play.

I think anyone who calls people that don't game with stark lunacy and frenzy a "carebear" should be referred to as a power ranger.

Dude! I love it! From now on, all hardcore PvP's are called Power Rangers :laugh:

Heh. Just those funky gankers with names like EyEpwnJ00mama and LeGG0lass0111. The kind of ppl that would take being called a Power Ranger as a compliment. Lol.

I personally like FFA pvp as long as there are consequences. And I have to admit, i'm guilty of a bit of griefing ... though I try to limit it to more of a vigilante type of thing and it's always in RP. Y'know like the hooker with a heart of gold.

vigilante huh... if that is the case im sure you'll find yourself at the wrong side of my sword... ah this will be fun when it comes out

sisler86
03-24-2010, 01:22 AM
I'm going to start a new trend called PKK (Player Killer Killers) :laugh:

PANZERBUNNY
03-24-2010, 04:30 AM
sisler86 wrote:

I'm going to start a new trend called PKK (Player Killer Killers) :laugh:

Not a new trend at all.

There are more than a few players in Darkfall who make rounds of the starter cities or who make it their business to hunt people down who pick on newbs.
(Their alignment system is a joke though. If Xsyons "evil" system has the penalties they have been hinting at, we wont be seeing that problem as much.)

sisler86
03-24-2010, 05:03 AM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

I'm going to start a new trend called PKK (Player Killer Killers) :laugh:

Not a new trend at all.

There are more than a few players in Darkfall who make rounds of the starter cities or who make it their business to hunt people down who pick on newbs.
(Their alignment system is a joke though. If Xsyons "evil" system has the penalties they have been hinting at, we wont be seeing that problem as much.)

lol, I know, I was more or less joking. :laugh:

I'd be my own worst enemy if I went around killing people, considering that is the complete opposite of my play style.

VowOfSilence
03-24-2010, 09:33 AM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

There are more than a few players in Darkfall who make rounds of the starter cities or who make it their business to hunt people down who pick on newbs.

Did that actually make the areas more secure?

sisler86
03-24-2010, 10:05 AM
VowOfSilence wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

There are more than a few players in Darkfall who make rounds of the starter cities or who make it their business to hunt people down who pick on newbs.

Did that actually make the areas more secure?

Fed-up carebears vs Power Rangers? Not sure how that would make things more secure, but who knows :lol:

shadowlz
03-24-2010, 11:13 AM
PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

VowOfSilence
03-24-2010, 12:23 PM
shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

sisler86
03-24-2010, 12:38 PM
VowOfSilence wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

I really don't see much of a point in random PKing in this game. I'm sure it will still happen, it always does, but really, there's not much of a point.

PANZERBUNNY
03-24-2010, 01:09 PM
People throw around the term "random" alot to explain Pks when its usually the opposite. They go around with a specific goal in mind: To find people and take their shit. Hardly random.

There are ways to lessen the impact.

If you are harvesting half afk with your sound off....you deserve to get a club to the face.

When you hear footsteps...you perk up, hide, take action. Some people want their hand held in these situations and will whine when they get jumped. Ask yourself..."what did I do to prevent this?"
If the answer is " Not much", its going to happen over and over.

Usually the tell tale sign of someone coming into your area is a short peak in lag. You feel that, good chance someone is running around on your grid area.

necoo
03-24-2010, 01:10 PM
Illmaculate wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

I really don't see much of a point in random PKing in this game. I'm sure it will still happen, it always does, but really, there's not much of a point.

Are you serious? What if I want your shiny weapon? What if you've been harvesting for hours and I want to take your shit?

Trust me, there's always a reason.

If I can get from you in 30 seconds what would take me hours to get, that seems like a pretty solid reason to me.
yep those are really good reasons that i will most likely act upon... though i sure what they mean is there is no real good reason to kill noobs who have absolutely nothing of particular value

Karasu
03-24-2010, 01:18 PM
necoo wrote:

Illmaculate wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

I really don't see much of a point in random PKing in this game. I'm sure it will still happen, it always does, but really, there's not much of a point.

Are you serious? What if I want your shiny weapon? What if you've been harvesting for hours and I want to take your shit?

Trust me, there's always a reason.

If I can get from you in 30 seconds what would take me hours to get, that seems like a pretty solid reason to me.
yep those are really good reasons that i will most likely act upon... though i sure what they mean is there is no real good reason to kill noobs who have absolutely nothing of particular value

i like the taste of blood?

VowOfSilence
03-24-2010, 01:20 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

People throw around the term "random" alot to explain Pks when its usually the opposite. They go around with a specific goal in mind: To find people and take their shit. Hardly random.


And if they kill a dozen newbies for a cup of water because they don't want to go the nearest river and get one themselves - that's so fucking random.

necoo
03-24-2010, 01:21 PM
Karasu wrote:

necoo wrote:

Illmaculate wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

I really don't see much of a point in random PKing in this game. I'm sure it will still happen, it always does, but really, there's not much of a point.

Are you serious? What if I want your shiny weapon? What if you've been harvesting for hours and I want to take your shit?

Trust me, there's always a reason.

If I can get from you in 30 seconds what would take me hours to get, that seems like a pretty solid reason to me.
yep those are really good reasons that i will most likely act upon... though i sure what they mean is there is no real good reason to kill noobs who have absolutely nothing of particular value

i like the taste of blood?
.... well i suppose that is a good enough reason as i have pked in games before for the sole reason of "im bored"

sisler86
03-24-2010, 01:38 PM
Illmaculate wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

I really don't see much of a point in random PKing in this game. I'm sure it will still happen, it always does, but really, there's not much of a point.

Are you serious? What if I want your shiny weapon? What if you've been harvesting for hours and I want to take your shit?

Trust me, there's always a reason.

If I can get from you in 30 seconds what would take me hours to get, that seems like a pretty solid reason to me.

If I have a "shiny" weapon that catches your interest then it is probably a better weapon than yours in which I will use to kill you with when you try to attack me. Plus, inventory space is going to be very limited in this game and the more you carry, the slower you move. That being said, people are going to stick close to home when gathering resources to shorten the trip. Is it really worth the time and the risk to camp out next to an enemy tribe just to get a few pieces of wood that you could have gotten yourself in much less time? It's not a very logical approach.

necoo
03-24-2010, 01:49 PM
sisler86 wrote:

Illmaculate wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

I really don't see much of a point in random PKing in this game. I'm sure it will still happen, it always does, but really, there's not much of a point.

Are you serious? What if I want your shiny weapon? What if you've been harvesting for hours and I want to take your shit?

Trust me, there's always a reason.

If I can get from you in 30 seconds what would take me hours to get, that seems like a pretty solid reason to me.

If I have a "shiny" weapon that catches your interest then it is probably a better weapon than yours in which I will use to kill you with when you try to attack me. Plus, inventory space is going to be very limited in this game and the more you carry, the slower you move. That being said, people are going to stick close to home when gathering resources to shorten the trip. Is it really worth the time and the risk to camp out next to an enemy tribe just to get a few pieces of wood that you could have gotten yourself in much less time? It's not a very logical approach.


first if your shinny weapon is better then mine then ill sneak up on you and finish you before you even know what hit you... next if i am going to kill for resources then i would kill you for harder to get resources then just wood... for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore, which by the way in this game you can tell because you move slower the more encumbered you are (supposedly of course)

PANZERBUNNY
03-24-2010, 01:56 PM
Sometimes the act of killing you before you get the thought in your head to kill me, is its own reward.

sisler86
03-24-2010, 02:01 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Sometimes the act of killing you before you get the thought in your head to kill me, is its own reward.

I'm not a fan of that philosophy. I am by no means a "carebear" as some like to call us, but killing someone in a game unprovoked just for your own satisfaction is childish enough to deserve its own clever little neckname, but that is just my opinion. ;)

sisler86
03-24-2010, 02:05 PM
necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Illmaculate wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

I really don't see much of a point in random PKing in this game. I'm sure it will still happen, it always does, but really, there's not much of a point.

Are you serious? What if I want your shiny weapon? What if you've been harvesting for hours and I want to take your shit?

Trust me, there's always a reason.

If I can get from you in 30 seconds what would take me hours to get, that seems like a pretty solid reason to me.

If I have a "shiny" weapon that catches your interest then it is probably a better weapon than yours in which I will use to kill you with when you try to attack me. Plus, inventory space is going to be very limited in this game and the more you carry, the slower you move. That being said, people are going to stick close to home when gathering resources to shorten the trip. Is it really worth the time and the risk to camp out next to an enemy tribe just to get a few pieces of wood that you could have gotten yourself in much less time? It's not a very logical approach.


first if your shinny weapon is better then mine then ill sneak up on you and finish you before you even know what hit you... next if i am going to kill for resources then i would kill you for harder to get resources then just wood... for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore, which by the way in this game you can tell because you move slower the more encumbered you are (supposedly of course)

lol, you guys are just awful :P

Ya know, you could just build your own mine and save yourself the time and hassle in the long run.

JCatano
03-24-2010, 02:23 PM
sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Illmaculate wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

I really don't see much of a point in random PKing in this game. I'm sure it will still happen, it always does, but really, there's not much of a point.

Are you serious? What if I want your shiny weapon? What if you've been harvesting for hours and I want to take your shit?

Trust me, there's always a reason.

If I can get from you in 30 seconds what would take me hours to get, that seems like a pretty solid reason to me.

If I have a "shiny" weapon that catches your interest then it is probably a better weapon than yours in which I will use to kill you with when you try to attack me. Plus, inventory space is going to be very limited in this game and the more you carry, the slower you move. That being said, people are going to stick close to home when gathering resources to shorten the trip. Is it really worth the time and the risk to camp out next to an enemy tribe just to get a few pieces of wood that you could have gotten yourself in much less time? It's not a very logical approach.


first if your shinny weapon is better then mine then ill sneak up on you and finish you before you even know what hit you... next if i am going to kill for resources then i would kill you for harder to get resources then just wood... for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore, which by the way in this game you can tell because you move slower the more encumbered you are (supposedly of course)

lol, you guys are just awful :P

Ya know, you could just build your own mine and save yourself the time and hassle in the long run.

Why build your own when sisler's mine could be camped by a group who wants to borrow it for awhile, and have some PvP fun in the process?

sisler86
03-24-2010, 02:30 PM
JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Illmaculate wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

I really don't see much of a point in random PKing in this game. I'm sure it will still happen, it always does, but really, there's not much of a point.

Are you serious? What if I want your shiny weapon? What if you've been harvesting for hours and I want to take your shit?

Trust me, there's always a reason.

If I can get from you in 30 seconds what would take me hours to get, that seems like a pretty solid reason to me.

If I have a "shiny" weapon that catches your interest then it is probably a better weapon than yours in which I will use to kill you with when you try to attack me. Plus, inventory space is going to be very limited in this game and the more you carry, the slower you move. That being said, people are going to stick close to home when gathering resources to shorten the trip. Is it really worth the time and the risk to camp out next to an enemy tribe just to get a few pieces of wood that you could have gotten yourself in much less time? It's not a very logical approach.


first if your shinny weapon is better then mine then ill sneak up on you and finish you before you even know what hit you... next if i am going to kill for resources then i would kill you for harder to get resources then just wood... for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore, which by the way in this game you can tell because you move slower the more encumbered you are (supposedly of course)

lol, you guys are just awful :P

Ya know, you could just build your own mine and save yourself the time and hassle in the long run.

Why build your own when sisler's mine could be camped by a group who wants to borrow it for awhile, and have some PvP fun in the process?

Except that we are nomads..... why would we have a mine? B)

JCatano
03-24-2010, 02:35 PM
sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Illmaculate wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

I really don't see much of a point in random PKing in this game. I'm sure it will still happen, it always does, but really, there's not much of a point.

Are you serious? What if I want your shiny weapon? What if you've been harvesting for hours and I want to take your shit?

Trust me, there's always a reason.

If I can get from you in 30 seconds what would take me hours to get, that seems like a pretty solid reason to me.

If I have a "shiny" weapon that catches your interest then it is probably a better weapon than yours in which I will use to kill you with when you try to attack me. Plus, inventory space is going to be very limited in this game and the more you carry, the slower you move. That being said, people are going to stick close to home when gathering resources to shorten the trip. Is it really worth the time and the risk to camp out next to an enemy tribe just to get a few pieces of wood that you could have gotten yourself in much less time? It's not a very logical approach.


first if your shinny weapon is better then mine then ill sneak up on you and finish you before you even know what hit you... next if i am going to kill for resources then i would kill you for harder to get resources then just wood... for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore, which by the way in this game you can tell because you move slower the more encumbered you are (supposedly of course)

lol, you guys are just awful :P

Ya know, you could just build your own mine and save yourself the time and hassle in the long run.

Why build your own when sisler's mine could be camped by a group who wants to borrow it for awhile, and have some PvP fun in the process?

Except that we are nomads..... why would we have a mine? B)

Because it's a computer game, so guild names don't really mean anything. My DF clan is called Ten. We have six people. :P

And if gathering is as tedious as you think... You'll want a mine.

sisler86
03-24-2010, 02:36 PM
JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Illmaculate wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

PKKs have been around for a long time. There were PKK clans in Diablo. Nothing new.

Yeah, but in my experience, that never really changes anything.
PKers will continue to randomly kill other players either way. Only game rules can stop that kind of behaviour.

I really don't see much of a point in random PKing in this game. I'm sure it will still happen, it always does, but really, there's not much of a point.

Are you serious? What if I want your shiny weapon? What if you've been harvesting for hours and I want to take your shit?

Trust me, there's always a reason.

If I can get from you in 30 seconds what would take me hours to get, that seems like a pretty solid reason to me.

If I have a "shiny" weapon that catches your interest then it is probably a better weapon than yours in which I will use to kill you with when you try to attack me. Plus, inventory space is going to be very limited in this game and the more you carry, the slower you move. That being said, people are going to stick close to home when gathering resources to shorten the trip. Is it really worth the time and the risk to camp out next to an enemy tribe just to get a few pieces of wood that you could have gotten yourself in much less time? It's not a very logical approach.


first if your shinny weapon is better then mine then ill sneak up on you and finish you before you even know what hit you... next if i am going to kill for resources then i would kill you for harder to get resources then just wood... for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore, which by the way in this game you can tell because you move slower the more encumbered you are (supposedly of course)

lol, you guys are just awful :P

Ya know, you could just build your own mine and save yourself the time and hassle in the long run.

Why build your own when sisler's mine could be camped by a group who wants to borrow it for awhile, and have some PvP fun in the process?

Except that we are nomads..... why would we have a mine? B)

Because it's a computer game, so guild names don't really mean anything. My DF clan is called Ten. We have six people. :P

And if gathering is as tedious as you think... You'll want a mine.

lol, I know. I'm just bustin your chops man :laugh:

JCatano
03-24-2010, 02:52 PM
On a serious note...

We need a video. My vaporware senses are starting to function.

sisler86
03-24-2010, 03:11 PM
JCatano wrote:

On a serious note...

We need a video. My vaporware senses are starting to function.

Agreed. I saw that they said they weren't going to make one, but come on. We need something to keep feeding our interest.

necoo
03-24-2010, 03:48 PM
sisler86 wrote:

JCatano wrote:

On a serious note...

We need a video. My vaporware senses are starting to function.

Agreed. I saw that they said they weren't going to make one, but come on. We need something to keep feeding our interest.
yeah they want use to make a video when it comes out... i would do it but... i don't have the software

shadowlz
03-24-2010, 03:52 PM
Im sure there will be a video on April first. Maybe like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

necoo
03-24-2010, 03:55 PM
shadowlz wrote:

Im sure there will be a video on April first. Maybe like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
damn i lost the game

sisler86
03-24-2010, 03:58 PM
shadowlz wrote:

Im sure there will be a video on April first. Maybe like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

lol, you know that's right. Anyway, by the time the game comes out, we won't need a video of it. We can just play the damn thing. :laugh:

necoo
03-24-2010, 04:01 PM
sisler86 wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

Im sure there will be a video on April first. Maybe like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

lol, you know that's right. Anyway, by the time the game comes out, we won't need a video of it. We can just play the damn thing. :laugh: yeah but other ppls need the video... as in the noobs that don't play the game

sisler86
03-24-2010, 04:09 PM
necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

shadowlz wrote:

Im sure there will be a video on April first. Maybe like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

lol, you know that's right. Anyway, by the time the game comes out, we won't need a video of it. We can just play the damn thing. :laugh: yeah but other ppls need the video... as in the noobs that don't play the game

That is true, but even so. I feel like we would be doing the developers' work for them. If they claim that they do not have time to make a video because they are making the game then why can't they just make a game play video after the release? I mean, I'm all for helping out, but it just sounds kind of lazy to me. What difference would it make?

VowOfSilence
03-24-2010, 05:20 PM
necoo wrote:

for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore

Or, you could be a carebear and go like, "Hi, can i have some of that ore, please?" and then i'm all carebear, like, "Sure, take it all, I'll just get some new ore from the mine. It's right over there btw, come by any time if you need more. There's tons of that stuff in there!"

necoo
03-24-2010, 05:43 PM
VowOfSilence wrote:

necoo wrote:

for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore

Or, you could be a carebear and go like, "Hi, can i have some of that ore, please?" and then i'm all carebear, like, "Sure, take it all, I'll just get some new ore from the mine. It's right over there btw, come by any time if you need more. There's tons of that stuff in there!"
unfortunately not everyone would just freely give away something like ore... and besides where is the fun in getting it like that.

sisler86
03-24-2010, 11:36 PM
necoo wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

necoo wrote:

for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore

Or, you could be a carebear and go like, "Hi, can i have some of that ore, please?" and then i'm all carebear, like, "Sure, take it all, I'll just get some new ore from the mine. It's right over there btw, come by any time if you need more. There's tons of that stuff in there!"
unfortunately not everyone would just freely give away something like ore... and besides where is the fun in getting it like that.

Not everyone, just the majority. Do note that the largest tribe in this game is peaceful like that. If someone came up to me and asked me if they could use some of my ore or wood than I would be more than happy to let them. It's not as you call "carebear" it's called being a good neighbor and not a child. The mentality of "If I want something, I will take it" will only get you so far before eventually everyone is looking to kill you on sight. I'm playing this game to build, explore and make friends doing so. I just don't understand the childish name calling going around.

shadowlz
03-25-2010, 01:23 AM
sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

necoo wrote:

for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore

Or, you could be a carebear and go like, "Hi, can i have some of that ore, please?" and then i'm all carebear, like, "Sure, take it all, I'll just get some new ore from the mine. It's right over there btw, come by any time if you need more. There's tons of that stuff in there!"
unfortunately not everyone would just freely give away something like ore... and besides where is the fun in getting it like that.

Not everyone, just the majority. Do note that the largest tribe in this game is peaceful like that. If someone came up to me and asked me if they could use some of my ore or wood than I would be more than happy to let them. It's not as you call "carebear" it's called being a good neighbor and not a child. The mentality of "If I want something, I will take it" will only get you so far before eventually everyone is looking to kill you on sight. I'm playing this game to build, explore and make friends doing so. I just don't understand the childish name calling going around.

You would love A Tale in the Desert 4. All that game is is building and crafting and gathering. No combat. You can smoke a hookah too.

PANZERBUNNY
03-25-2010, 01:44 AM
sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

necoo wrote:

for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore

Or, you could be a carebear and go like, "Hi, can i have some of that ore, please?" and then i'm all carebear, like, "Sure, take it all, I'll just get some new ore from the mine. It's right over there btw, come by any time if you need more. There's tons of that stuff in there!"
unfortunately not everyone would just freely give away something like ore... and besides where is the fun in getting it like that.

Not everyone, just the majority. Do note that the largest tribe in this game is peaceful like that. If someone came up to me and asked me if they could use some of my ore or wood than I would be more than happy to let them. It's not as you call "carebear" it's called being a good neighbor and not a child. The mentality of "If I want something, I will take it" will only get you so far before eventually everyone is looking to kill you on sight. I'm playing this game to build, explore and make friends doing so. I just don't understand the childish name calling going around.

0_o How is playing an evil character that wishes to raid your tribes resources being childish?
Its called playing with what the game gives us.

I'll hold you to that though. Everytime I need ore I'm going to come and ask you for it. We'll see how long that lasts.

necoo
03-25-2010, 01:49 AM
sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

necoo wrote:

for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore

Or, you could be a carebear and go like, "Hi, can i have some of that ore, please?" and then i'm all carebear, like, "Sure, take it all, I'll just get some new ore from the mine. It's right over there btw, come by any time if you need more. There's tons of that stuff in there!"
unfortunately not everyone would just freely give away something like ore... and besides where is the fun in getting it like that.

Not everyone, just the majority. Do note that the largest tribe in this game is peaceful like that. If someone came up to me and asked me if they could use some of my ore or wood than I would be more than happy to let them. It's not as you call "carebear" it's called being a good neighbor and not a child. The mentality of "If I want something, I will take it" will only get you so far before eventually everyone is looking to kill you on sight. I'm playing this game to build, explore and make friends doing so. I just don't understand the childish name calling going around.
a good neighbor huh... im guessing your the kind of guy that seeks peace and tranquility... sittin back with a bear in hand building up from a peaceful suburb, ah that kind of life can be good... however not all of us want such a life... "take want you want" eh "a child's mentality" perhaps... its not so simple as that, at least not for me. if i had a nick name it would be far from "carebear" and "power ranger" would be far to simplistic. let the world crumble behind me as i stand on this street, let the bodies fall as i walk through a red mist, let blood fall like rain from the tip of my crimson blade, let the moon be dimmed by the stench of death, let me fade into darkness as i walk into the abyss, may the masses curse my name and, in turn, i shall curse theirs, as my hart beats faster and the adrenaline rushes throughout my body may those around fall victim to fear, and let those who don't strike out at me understand my path, and only then may a fleeting bond of friendship be formed. at the end of the day may my hands be shaking in victory, and let i not fall in defeat.

sisler86
03-25-2010, 01:49 AM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

necoo wrote:

for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore

Or, you could be a carebear and go like, "Hi, can i have some of that ore, please?" and then i'm all carebear, like, "Sure, take it all, I'll just get some new ore from the mine. It's right over there btw, come by any time if you need more. There's tons of that stuff in there!"
unfortunately not everyone would just freely give away something like ore... and besides where is the fun in getting it like that.

Not everyone, just the majority. Do note that the largest tribe in this game is peaceful like that. If someone came up to me and asked me if they could use some of my ore or wood than I would be more than happy to let them. It's not as you call "carebear" it's called being a good neighbor and not a child. The mentality of "If I want something, I will take it" will only get you so far before eventually everyone is looking to kill you on sight. I'm playing this game to build, explore and make friends doing so. I just don't understand the childish name calling going around.

0_o How is playing an evil character that wishes to raid your tribes resources being childish?
Its called playing with what the game gives us.

I'll hold you to that though. Everytime I need ore I'm going to come and ask you for it. We'll see how long that lasts.

lol, haha. Within reason man, within reason. :laugh:

I wasn't referring to evil characters as being childish. I was referring to someone who continually just kills other players unprovoked for their own enjoyment. It's just the way I see it and I understand not everyone has that mindset.


Shadowlz:

I have played A Tale in the Desert 4. I honestly wasn't a fan. As much as you can do on that game, it didn't have much depth to it. It just felt like it was missing something, sort of unfinished. Plus I didn't like the UI layout and that can sometimes be a game breaker for me.

sisler86
03-25-2010, 01:52 AM
necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

necoo wrote:

for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore

Or, you could be a carebear and go like, "Hi, can i have some of that ore, please?" and then i'm all carebear, like, "Sure, take it all, I'll just get some new ore from the mine. It's right over there btw, come by any time if you need more. There's tons of that stuff in there!"
unfortunately not everyone would just freely give away something like ore... and besides where is the fun in getting it like that.

Not everyone, just the majority. Do note that the largest tribe in this game is peaceful like that. If someone came up to me and asked me if they could use some of my ore or wood than I would be more than happy to let them. It's not as you call "carebear" it's called being a good neighbor and not a child. The mentality of "If I want something, I will take it" will only get you so far before eventually everyone is looking to kill you on sight. I'm playing this game to build, explore and make friends doing so. I just don't understand the childish name calling going around.
a good neighbor huh... im guessing your the kind of guy that seeks peace and tranquility... sittin back with a bear in hand building up from a peaceful suburb, ah that kind of life can be good... however not all of us want such a life... "take want you want" eh "a child's mentality" perhaps... its not so simple as that, at least not for me. if i had a nick name it would be far from "carebear" and "power ranger" would be far to simplistic. let the world crumble behind me as i stand on this street, let the bodies fall as i walk through a red mist, let blood fall like rain from the tip of my crimson blade, let the moon be dimmed by the stench of death, let me fade into darkness as i walk into the abyss, may the masses curse my name and, in turn, i shall curse theirs, as my hart beats faster and the adrenaline rushes throughout my body may those around fall victim to fear, and let those who don't strike out at me understand my path, and only then may a fleeting bond of friendship be formed. at the end of the day may my hands be shaking in victory, and let i not fall in defeat.

I guess we can't all be a "good guy" at heart. Fair enough.

necoo
03-25-2010, 01:56 AM
sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

necoo wrote:

for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore

Or, you could be a carebear and go like, "Hi, can i have some of that ore, please?" and then i'm all carebear, like, "Sure, take it all, I'll just get some new ore from the mine. It's right over there btw, come by any time if you need more. There's tons of that stuff in there!"
unfortunately not everyone would just freely give away something like ore... and besides where is the fun in getting it like that.

Not everyone, just the majority. Do note that the largest tribe in this game is peaceful like that. If someone came up to me and asked me if they could use some of my ore or wood than I would be more than happy to let them. It's not as you call "carebear" it's called being a good neighbor and not a child. The mentality of "If I want something, I will take it" will only get you so far before eventually everyone is looking to kill you on sight. I'm playing this game to build, explore and make friends doing so. I just don't understand the childish name calling going around.
a good neighbor huh... im guessing your the kind of guy that seeks peace and tranquility... sittin back with a bear in hand building up from a peaceful suburb, ah that kind of life can be good... however not all of us want such a life... "take want you want" eh "a child's mentality" perhaps... its not so simple as that, at least not for me. if i had a nick name it would be far from "carebear" and "power ranger" would be far to simplistic. let the world crumble behind me as i stand on this street, let the bodies fall as i walk through a red mist, let blood fall like rain from the tip of my crimson blade, let the moon be dimmed by the stench of death, let me fade into darkness as i walk into the abyss, may the masses curse my name and, in turn, i shall curse theirs, as my hart beats faster and the adrenaline rushes throughout my body may those around fall victim to fear, and let those who don't strike out at me understand my path, and only then may a fleeting bond of friendship be formed. at the end of the day may my hands be shaking in victory, and let i not fall in defeat.

I guess we can't all be a "good guy" at heart. Fair enough.
well at least you understand that much

anyway its 2 am here so night ppls

sisler86
03-25-2010, 02:03 AM
To be honest, I think the main reason I would never take someone else's resources is because I am one of those people that has to do everything myself. One of those "If you want something done right, do it yourself" kind of people.

Jadzia
03-25-2010, 04:46 AM
sisler86 wrote:

necoo wrote:

VowOfSilence wrote:

necoo wrote:

for example perhaps my tribe doesn't have a mine well then ill head to an enemies tribe mine and take out whatever sucker that seems to have a good amount of ore

Or, you could be a carebear and go like, "Hi, can i have some of that ore, please?" and then i'm all carebear, like, "Sure, take it all, I'll just get some new ore from the mine. It's right over there btw, come by any time if you need more. There's tons of that stuff in there!"
unfortunately not everyone would just freely give away something like ore... and besides where is the fun in getting it like that.

Not everyone, just the majority. Do note that the largest tribe in this game is peaceful like that. If someone came up to me and asked me if they could use some of my ore or wood than I would be more than happy to let them. It's not as you call "carebear" it's called being a good neighbor and not a child. The mentality of "If I want something, I will take it" will only get you so far before eventually everyone is looking to kill you on sight. I'm playing this game to build, explore and make friends doing so. I just don't understand the childish name calling going around.

I totally agree. necoo, perhaps you should try cooperative playstyle, it may surprise you. Its fun and it gives much more meaning for gathering and skilling...helping out a friend or even a stranger is a nice feeling. Even with your bloodthirsty mindset you could be surprised how nice it can be :)

sisler86
03-25-2010, 04:52 AM
Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Jadzia
03-25-2010, 04:52 AM
necoo wrote:


a good neighbor huh... im guessing your the kind of guy that seeks peace and tranquility... sittin back with a bear in hand building up from a peaceful suburb, ah that kind of life can be good... however not all of us want such a life...

I'm imagining sisler laying back in peace, seeking for tranquility...with a bear in his hand !! Now thats a strong man and a brave one too B) No wonder not all of us want such a lifestyle !

( no offense, necoo, I know it was a typo, I'm not picking on your spelling, it was only funny :) )

Jadzia
03-25-2010, 04:52 AM
sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

sisler86
03-25-2010, 04:55 AM
Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

That's true, but unfortunately I think the opposing force is sleeping. :)

I just don't understand them and their violent ways. :laugh:

Jadzia
03-25-2010, 04:58 AM
sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

That's true, but unfortunately I think the opposing force is sleeping. :)

I just don't understand them and their violent ways. :laugh:

I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

sisler86
03-25-2010, 05:00 AM
Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

That's true, but unfortunately I think the opposing force is sleeping. :)

I just don't understand them and their violent ways. :laugh:

I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

I don't like making assumptions of people so I won't, but if that is indeed the case then I hope so too.

Jadzia
03-25-2010, 05:06 AM
sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

That's true, but unfortunately I think the opposing force is sleeping. :)

I just don't understand them and their violent ways. :laugh:

I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

I don't like making assumptions of people so I won't, but if that is indeed the case then I hope so too.

Well I just hope an adult wouldn't have such a bad experience about life. If he has, thats more than sad :(

sisler86
03-25-2010, 05:09 AM
Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

That's true, but unfortunately I think the opposing force is sleeping. :)

I just don't understand them and their violent ways. :laugh:

I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

I don't like making assumptions of people so I won't, but if that is indeed the case then I hope so too.

Well I just hope an adult wouldn't have such a bad experience about life. If he has, thats more than sad :(

Agreed. Like I was saying earlier. In this game it seems like it would be way more efficient to work together and get things on your own then to waste time and take the risk to kill someone and loot them, hoping they have something good on them.

Jadzia
03-25-2010, 05:16 AM
sisler86 wrote:


Agreed. Like I was saying earlier. In this game it seems like it would be way more efficient to work together and get things on your own then to waste time and take the risk to kill someone and loot them, hoping they have something good on them.

Exactly. And I think its more realistic too, after loosing a huge part of the population in an apocalypse I'm sure the survivors would try to work together, and the main goal wouldn't be to destroy the remaining part of the humanity :P

sisler86
03-25-2010, 05:20 AM
Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:


Agreed. Like I was saying earlier. In this game it seems like it would be way more efficient to work together and get things on your own then to waste time and take the risk to kill someone and loot them, hoping they have something good on them.

Exactly. And I think its more realistic too, after loosing a huge part of the population in an apocalypse I'm sure the survivors would try to work together, and the main goal wouldn't be to destroy the remaining part of the humanity :P

I've tried to make that point many times, but they all seem to have no faith in humanity.

Jhael
03-25-2010, 05:39 AM
Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:


Agreed. Like I was saying earlier. In this game it seems like it would be way more efficient to work together and get things on your own then to waste time and take the risk to kill someone and loot them, hoping they have something good on them.

Exactly. And I think its more realistic too, after loosing a huge part of the population in an apocalypse I'm sure the survivors would try to work together, and the main goal wouldn't be to destroy the remaining part of the humanity :PI think you give humankind too much credit. They are still selfish.

Further, can this "oh those evil people are stupid!" quote-game your playing be over already? It certainly doesn't help. Either side of the argument.

sisler86
03-25-2010, 05:42 AM
Jhael wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:


Agreed. Like I was saying earlier. In this game it seems like it would be way more efficient to work together and get things on your own then to waste time and take the risk to kill someone and loot them, hoping they have something good on them.

Exactly. And I think its more realistic too, after loosing a huge part of the population in an apocalypse I'm sure the survivors would try to work together, and the main goal wouldn't be to destroy the remaining part of the humanity :PI think you give humankind too much credit. They are still selfish.

Further, can this "oh those evil people are stupid!" quote-game your playing be over already? It certainly doesn't help. Either side of the argument.

lol, I'm more or less just poking the fire, looking for that spark to ignite the debate again. Sometimes there is just nothing like a good argument :P

Jadzia
03-25-2010, 05:47 AM
Jhael wrote:

I think you give humankind too much credit. They are still selfish.


Very selfish, but hopefully not that suicidal.

sisler86
03-25-2010, 05:51 AM
Jadzia wrote:

Jhael wrote:

I think you give humankind too much credit. They are still selfish.


Very selfish, but hopefully not that suicidal.

Selfish we may be, but stubborn enough to survive.

Lily
03-25-2010, 05:51 AM
Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

That's true, but unfortunately I think the opposing force is sleeping. :)

I just don't understand them and their violent ways. :laugh:

I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

I really hope you don't think all PKers are teenage boys.

Jadzia
03-25-2010, 05:58 AM
Lily wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

sisler86 wrote:

Jadzia! Nice to see you on here. I was outnumbered. :P

Hi there, you're not alone anymore ;)

That's true, but unfortunately I think the opposing force is sleeping. :)

I just don't understand them and their violent ways. :laugh:

I'm pretty sure necoo is a teenager boy, who is watching too much action movies, and probably he lives in an area where he see way too much violence... I hope he will get better experience about life when he grows up :)

I really hope you don't think all PKers are teenage boys.
No. But i think most of the random PKers are teenage boys. Well at least I hope so...

Tradeprawn
03-25-2010, 07:02 AM
What's wrong with a game ban associated with being "caught" killing for no reason but to loot. The evil player would have to keep his/her acct. paid up until their "release".None paid up accts. don't tick down towards release. How's that for consequence. I like PvP as much as the next guy but those who are just in the game to spoil others enjoyment will have to pay the piper when "caught". Wars any disputes are the exception. Fighting for a reason is ok. But those who kill just to kill will only be playing once a week, unless they are really good at it.

Jadzia
03-25-2010, 07:10 AM
Tradeprawn wrote:

What's wrong with a game ban associated with being "caught" killing for no reason but to loot. The evil player would have to keep his/her acct. paid up until their "release".None paid up accts. don't tick down towards release. How's that for consequence. I like PvP as much as the next guy but those who are just in the game to spoil others enjoyment will have to pay the piper when "caught". Wars any disputes are the exception. Fighting for a reason is ok. But those who kill just to kill will only be playing once a week, unless they are really good at it.

Thats an interesting idea, can you elaborate how "being caught" would work ? PKers would hate to be banned for a week for killing, but if it doesn't happen always only if they don't do their job well, then its a real challenge. It would add a nice amount of thrill to them, not only the killing part, but to try to get away with it.

Tradeprawn
03-25-2010, 07:45 AM
Probably becoming incapacitated i would think. I think it would filter out novices and career "griefers". They would get mad at not being able to play and either quit playing or change their ways.Leaving room for truely "bad" guys to become the monsters of the game.

Jhael
03-25-2010, 08:38 AM
Tradeprawn wrote:

Probably becoming incapacitated i would think. I think it would filter out novices and career "griefers". They would get mad at not being able to play and either quit playing or change their ways.Leaving room for truely "bad" guys to become the monsters of the game.Your signature picture suits you.

a) Nobody is going to pay for a game in which they can't do something they were allowed to but will get punished by not being able to spend game time they paid for if they do it. Whoa that's a mouthful.

b) Chaosticians.

c) This game, for all intents and purposes, sounds like a sandbox to me. And that name or category demands that the player is allowed to make their own choices. If something like this was actually in the game it would no longer be up to the player to decide what or how they want to be but be dictated by what they are allowed to be. Can play some good old regular World of Warcraft for that.

d) A game needs a variety of people. One group can not survive alone. This would practically eliminate the group that has it's uses. I forgot where a very nice freaking article regarding this was, but whatever.

e) Further, as a sandbox, the game is supposed to be fully "made" by the players in it, not some arbitrary system that TELLS you what you are or are not allowed to do. Laws - players in a sandbox should be allowed to make their own.

sisler86
03-25-2010, 08:43 AM
Jhael wrote:

Tradeprawn wrote:

Probably becoming incapacitated i would think. I think it would filter out novices and career "griefers". They would get mad at not being able to play and either quit playing or change their ways.Leaving room for truely "bad" guys to become the monsters of the game.Your signature picture suits you.

a) Nobody is going to pay for a game in which they can't do something they were allowed to but will get punished by not being able to spend game time they paid for if they do it. Whoa that's a mouthful.

b) Chaosticians.

c) This game, for all intents and purposes, sounds like a sandbox to me. And that name or category demands that the player is allowed to make their own choices. If something like this was actually in the game it would no longer be up to the player to decide what or how they want to be but be dictated by what they are allowed to be. Can play some good old regular World of Warcraft for that.

d) A game needs a variety of people. One group can not survive alone. This would practically eliminate the group that has it's uses. I forgot where a very nice freaking article regarding this was, but whatever.

e) Further, as a sandbox, the game is supposed to be fully "made" by the players in it, not some arbitrary system that TELLS you what you are or are not allowed to do. Laws - players in a sandbox should be allowed to make their own.

At least you understood what he was talking about. :blush:

Ciik
03-25-2010, 08:50 AM
Bring on the sandboxy player-driven and influenced ecosystem.

Choices abound, that also means that along with those choices, there needs to be balanced and tangible character and game-play risk/reward and action/reaction for each factions acts of being good and evil.

So if the game-play is as shallow as a third-person shooter, one's attention-span to continue in such a mmorpg environment is going to be as shallow.

sisler86
03-25-2010, 08:52 AM
Ciik wrote:

Bring on the sandboxy player-driven and influenced ecosystem.

Choices abound, that also means that along with those choices, there needs to be balanced and tangible character and game-play risk/reward and action/reaction for each factions acts of being good and evil.

So if the game-play is as shallow as a third-person shooter, one's attention-span to continue in such a mmorpg environment is going to be as shallow.

I think we can all agree though that this game seems to have a bit more depth to it than just a TPS.