How do you know if you are seeing a macro or not?

[mindtrigger]

I'm seeing a lot more discussion about reporting macroers as cheaters and this is going to lead to people being falsely reported, and hundreds of players crying wolf and blaming macros for everything negative that happens to them.

For example, how do you know if someone who is doing a simple routine such as RUN, JUMP, FORAGE, HIDE over and over again is a player running a macro program, or if they are just sitting there at the keyboard grinding?

In that question lies the method for attempting to detect macroers, and also the way for smart macroers to defeat detection. Programmers and tech savvy players already know the answer to this, and they know why macroing can't really be defeated through simple client/server checks. The best thing you can do is MINIMIZE the reasons people would want to macro in the first place.

The real problem behind macros is THE GAME itself. If your game has elements that are grindy, repetitive, and boring, people will want to macro them. If you make it so your systems, such as crafting, have an element of variable interaction to them, not only will macroing be difficult or nearly impossible, but players won't want to macro as much. If they don't feel like a key smashing monkey while playing your game, macroing won't enter most people's minds.

If an exploit impacts the economy, then it hurts the game. People who macro just to level faster aren't really doing any damage to the game. They are simply getting there faster than other players, and really the same thing can be said about people who have 8+ hours of game time each day when compared to casual players. If you have a gameplay system that can impact the economy, and can also be automated via macro, then you have what amounts to a game-breaking bug in your game software. Blame the players all you want, but that will not fix the problem.

There are other ways to reduce outside macro use besides making the game more interactive in general as well. One example is putting a macro system right into the game that allows players to script gameplay elements that will not give them some kind of economic advantage. Star Wars Galaxies had a nice little built-in macro system that people used for all kinds of things, and none of them were considered cheats. An example would be a macro that switches all of your inventory over from one set of armor to another at the click of a button. Incidentally, having a built in macro-system had the effect of defining what was legal macroing and what wasn't.

Yet another way games have slowed the use of macroing is by having GUI scripting features such as the LUA standard that WoW and other games use, so that players can create, download and install "legal" modifications to the User Interface which customize their game play experience.

No matter what anyone thinks about macros, the main question that should be asked when trying to defeat them is WHY a player wants to macro in the first place. There will always be a small percentage of the population that will do this type of thing. However, if macroing becomes so common that average players are doing it, then the game is the problem, not the players.

[Dubanka]

good post.

macro mandate occurs when the delta between default skill and max skill is too large. In an environment where a 'normal' non macro player has no chance against a macro player, expect the norm to be macro.

[jumpshot]

I feel like Xsyon has already done a lot to combat macro'ing.

Not from macro detection, but reducing the need to macro.

That is, there's is not a ton to gain from macroing (50 more fishing skill isn't going to win a fight) and there is stuff to lose from macro'ing (stat loss, hunger, etc).

Hiding might be the exception, but meh you can't win them all.

I agree that the main problem with any macro'ing is that then players blame macros for anything bad that happens to them.

[Commissar123]

I agree, very fabulous post.

[mrcalhou]

Excellent post.

[Robhood]

Macroing is not a problem. There may be more fishing macros right now because there is nothing else to do. Start the game, macros are pretty usless. So someone gets maxed on hiding a few days sooner, not a game breaker. This game isn't like other games where ya macro farm gold/loot or honor, or macro magic or weapon skills. You have to play this game to enjot it.

[Dweetybyrd]

People use the macros to level up.... if you level up fishing to 100, great! but when you can take those 10XP points you just cheated your way to by Macro/Bot leveling your character, and apply them to axes..... that’s an unfair advantage over a player who didn’t cheat. Then, you use all of those leveling points gained from cheating, and 2 weeks later you have a macro user who has 100 additional points to apply to combat.

Long story short, this it is not a victimless crime :) The cheaters exploit the 'small' things and it gives them a huge and unfair advantage against other players.

That’s my view.

[jumpshot]

People use the macros to level up.... if you level up fishing to 100, great! but when you can take those 10XP points you just cheated your way to by Macro/Bot leveling your character, and apply them to axes..... that’s an unfair advantage over a player who didn’t cheat. Then, you use all of those leveling points gained from cheating, and 2 weeks later you have a macro user who has 100 additional points to apply to combat.

Long story short, this it is not a victimless crime :) The cheaters exploit the 'small' things and it gives them a huge and unfair advantage against other players.

That’s my view.

I think you are right, but it's not as bad as it sounds. Eventually you stop getting XP at all from Fishing or Terraforming or whatever... so like the previous guy said, it may give you a slight advantage right out of the gate, that advantage won't last.

[maelwydd]

How to tell if someone is using a macro?

Send then a whisper, if they don't reply report them.

[Kordesh]

Having gradual progression of something does not automatically=grindy. The only people that believe such are min/maxers who bring it on themselves. The nature of the whole sandbox genre is about slow meaningful progression, but the problem is people want "max everything now!" so they macro, exploit, and cheat their way to the top and then blame the devs because "it was too hard" instead of playing as it was intended and letting those skills increase as you naturally used them during your play time.

[Lily]

How to tell if someone is using a macro?

Send then a whisper, if they don't reply report them.

So if I don't reply to a random stranger I have no desire to speak to, I get reported? Great.

[mindtrigger]

People use the macros to level up.... if you level up fishing to 100, great! but when you can take those 10XP points you just cheated your way to by Macro/Bot leveling your character, and apply them to axes..... that’s an unfair advantage over a player who didn’t cheat. Then, you use all of those leveling points gained from cheating, and 2 weeks later you have a macro user who has 100 additional points to apply to combat.

Long story short, this it is not a victimless crime :) The cheaters exploit the 'small' things and it gives them a huge and unfair advantage against other players.

That’s my view.

I don't agree with this. By your logic, people who have the ability to play the game 12 hours per day are "cheating" because they have an unfair advantage over someone like me who might only play the game 12 hours per week.

The other misconception about macros is that people think a player can just start a macro and walk away for hours or a whole day. That is very rarely the case. Most of the time the macroer still needs to be sitting at their computer to steer the player once in a while, stop and start the macro if there is an issue, to clean inventory, etc. Mostly what a macro does in a game like this is make it so the player doesn't have to hit so many buttons to complete repetitive functions. I personally couldn't care less if people do this, and I don't see it as cheating at all. I see it as 1) Smart or 2) A situation where the game should be more fun and less repetitive.

The only exception to this for me is if a macro allows a player to perform the function much faster than your average human could. By faster, I mean faster than a human can even move. This is one place where detection code comes into play. These are known as a "velocity check", among other names in programming lingo. Systems like VAC or Punkbuster work, in part, with checks like these. However, if a macro is moving at normal human speed, who cares? Your opinion that this is cheating, is just that; an opinion.

Added after 5 minutes:


Having gradual progression of something does not automatically=grindy. The only people that believe such are min/maxers who bring it on themselves. The nature of the whole sandbox genre is about slow meaningful progression, but the problem is people want "max everything now!" so they macro, exploit, and cheat their way to the top and then blame the devs because "it was too hard" instead of playing as it was intended and letting those skills increase as you naturally used them during your play time.

This is your opinion. You are basically telling me what should constitute my gameplay based on your own idea of what constitutes "fair" gameplay. I'm no min/maxer, nor do I care to macro, but my opinion stands that as long as macroing doesn't hurt the economy or give people some type of inhuman ability, such as performing tasks at computer speeds rather than human speeds, then I personally don't care if others macro.

To me it is no different than telling people they shouldn't use voice com programs such as Vent, just because Xsyon doesn't have built in voice comms. It could be said that I have an unfair advantage using Vent that non-Vent using players don't have, but that doesn't mean I am cheating.

[maelwydd]

So if I send you a whisper asking "hey, you there?" why wouldn't you reply?

I mean, if I see you jumping continually or going in and out of hide I would expect you to be there. If you don't reply not my problem.

[Dweetybyrd]

I don't agree with this. By your logic, people who have the ability to play the game 12 hours per day are "cheating" because they have an unfair advantage over someone like me who might only play the game 12 hours per week.

The other misconception about macros is that people think a player can just start a macro and walk away for hours or a whole day. That is very rarely the case. Most of the time the macroer still needs to be sitting at their computer to steer the player once in a while, stop and start the macro if there is an issue, to clean inventory, etc. Mostly what a macro does in a game like this is make it so the player doesn't have to hit so many buttons to complete repetitive functions. I personally couldn't care less if people do this, and I don't see it as cheating at all. I see it as 1) Smart or 2) A situation where the game should be more fun and less repetitive.

The only exception to this for me is if a macro allows a player to perform the function much faster than your average human could. By faster, I mean faster than a human can even move. This is one place where detection code comes into play. These are known as a "velocity check", among other names in programming lingo. Systems like VAC or Punkbuster work, in part, with checks like these. However, if a macro is moving at normal human speed, who cares? Your opinion that this is cheating, is just that; an opinion.

1. Having a life outside a videogame is normal. Having 23 hours a day to play is not. People who have the time to play don’t have an unfair advantage, nor are they cheating.. come on... that is a stupid argument. I am talking about unfairly manipulating the game.. good old fashion time and manpower is not that.
2. You need a better Macro maker in your tribe if you believe this. There are dudes that have completely self sustaining Macros, eating, drinking and everything.
3. The use of 3rd party software is prohibited, there is a reason for this. It does not allow for a level playing field. Justify it however you want, you are obviously a fan.

[Armand]

Obviously we should just let everyone macro to their heart's content. It worked so well for so many other games.

[jumpshot]

So if I send you a whisper asking "hey, you there?" why wouldn't you reply?

I mean, if I see you jumping continually or going in and out of hide I would expect you to be there. If you don't reply not my problem.

Two possible reasons could be that there is no reply function and I don't want to spell out your ridiculous name (not yours in particular, just any long ridiculous name)

Another is that I missed it while blinking and global chat swept your message away.

And a bonus reason, because the person in question doesn't care what the self appointed macro police think.

[mrcalhou]

Two possible reasons could be that there is no reply function and I don't want to spell out your ridiculous name (not yours in particular, just any long ridiculous name)

Another is that I missed it while blinking and global chat swept your message away.

And a bonus reason, because the person in question doesn't care what the self appointed macro police think.

This.

Also, why can't games become more fun. I mean, I know some people enjoy just clicking their mouse over and over again, but practically every MMO that has ever come out uses click and wait crafting and harvesting. I think it's getting pretty old now.

[mindtrigger]

1. Having a life outside a videogame is normal. Having 23 hours a day to play is not. People who have the time to play don’t have an unfair advantage, nor are they cheating.. come on... that is a stupid argument. I am talking about unfairly manipulating the game.. good old fashion time and manpower is not that.
2. You need a better Macro maker in your tribe if you believe this. There are dudes that have completely self sustaining Macros, eating, drinking and everything.
3. The use of 3rd party software is prohibited, there is a reason for this. It does not allow for a level playing field. Justify it however you want, you are obviously a fan.

You don't know me, so don't make yourself sound like a fool by pretending you do. I play sandbox games because I like being a part of a real living breathing game community. I didn't come here to min/max or macro myself to glory. In addition, my opinion on this matter has nothing at all to do with my tribe. We don't have a tribe "macro maker". Interesting you should bring something like that up...

I am a programmer, and I tend to look at things logically. What is "normal" play time in an MMO? I think you would be surprised how many people play these games 8 hours per day or more. I'm a casual player with many hobbies and interests outside of gaming, and I will be lucky if I get 12 hours per week including weekend sessions.

Playing the Devil's advocate, what difference does it make to you if I am a casual player who runs a crafting macro for 4 hours per day, or if I am a standard player who crafts for 4 hours per day? The end result is basically the same if we have a crafting system that is made up of nothing but repetitive button clicking. Throw in some type of variable "mini-game" feature to crafting, and you just eliminated the ability to macro it.

You can make closed macros, but I haven't seen any situations in this game yet where doing so impacts other players more than someone who has 8-12 hours per day of gaming time at their disposal. If it does, then Notorious needs to address this because the game is broken in that area. What do you care if someone is sitting at their desk clicking buttons, or if they have a program doing it for them? What is the impact on you or other players directly? Is it that you will have to stop to rest your hands once in a while, and the macroer won't?

The "use of third party software" clause is about as ambiguous a rule as anyone could ever make. Does this mean I can't use IM to Chat with fellow tribe members, or use voice comms like Vent, or listen to music through Winamp while I play? Does it mean I can't use software to record my game play sessions to show on YouTube like so many people have already done? Sure Notorious can enforce whatever they want (or rather whatever they can detect), but banning people for such a stupid reason only serves to hurt their income as a company. This isn't WoW with millions of subscribers. This is an indy game where each player's $15 per month counts.

I already gave perfectly good examples for ways to minimize macroing, and it is on Notorious to implement them. I'm not advocating macroing here either except to say that as long as the game has the proper protections in place to make sure it is simple automation, and not a true "exploit" that impacts the economy, then I don't care if people macro.


Obviously we should just let everyone macro to their heart's content. It worked so well for so many other games.

My OP states ways Notorious could counter macroing. If you are expecting people not to macro out of the kindness of their heart, then you must be from some planet I have never visited before.

[SnowMiser]

How to tell if someone is using a macro?

Send then a whisper, if they don't reply report them.

If they dont reply? I dont reply to any wispers, 99% of the time I dont see it, and if i did, I dont care.
If your not in my vent, I really dont give a shit what you want by asking in a wisper.

[jumpshot]

This.

Also, why can't games become more fun. I mean, I know some people enjoy just clicking their mouse over and over again, but practically every MMO that has ever come out uses click and wait crafting and harvesting. I think it's getting pretty old now.

I didn't play it long, and I think they've since dumbed it down - but when EQ2 came out it had an active crafing system.

As the craft progressed, different "events" would happen that could affect the outcome. You would have to quicky react with some of your learned "moves" to either counter or encourage the events. It was neato.

Oops didn't mean to derail >.>

Gettum, WingChun!

[Dweetybyrd]

:You don't know me, so don't make yourself sound like a fool by pretending you do. I play sandbox games because I like being a part of a real living breathing game community. I didn't come here to min/max or macro myself to glory. In addition, my opinion on this matter has nothing at all to do with my tribe. We don't have a tribe "macro maker". Interesting you should bring something like that up...

Ok, I read your first paragraph, that’s about all I can handle. Your awesome, you’re smart, your cool, etc...etc..etc... I don’t know you, nor do I care to.

"because I like being a part of a real living breathing game community" I would not consider a video game that but hey, it’s obviously very close to your heart.

Cheating angers me. Thats all I have to say.

[Brilliant]

So if I send you a whisper asking "hey, you there?" why wouldn't you reply?

How about because whispers do not visibly show up in a separate chat tab in case you miss them before they get scrolled off, which Global chat will do in about 2 seconds.

Don't be so paranoid.


Also, why can't games become more fun. I mean, I know some people enjoy just clicking their mouse over and over again, but practically every MMO that has ever come out uses click and wait crafting and harvesting. I think it's getting pretty old now.
Agreed.

In Wurm, instead of grinding out a million crappy shortswords that you were just going to end up throwing away, you could instead skill up by slowly improving on one sword, and you couldn't predict what you were going to need to do next. Maybe it needed to be heated and hammered, maybe tempered in water, or sharpened, etc. etc.

Such a system both makes more sense, and would be very difficult to effectively macro.

Even more, what would be really cool would be the ability to make each part of the sword separately, and put together a sword handle with your own custom design with a blade made to a weight, length, and shape that you choose.

[Dubanka]

of course, as everything does, this comes right back to the safe zone / combat discussion.

How do you tell if someone's macroing?

Attack them. If they don't fight back and just die...they were macroing.

Of course, you have to be able to attack people on their homestead for this player policing to occur.

on the /w thing...if i'm autorunning into a wall (is that even a macro? i'm not using anything third party, just tools the game gives me), and zoned out, or surfing in another window, you can /tell me all you want, but i'm not going to see it because the wonderful all in one chat window is going to spam it righ up and out of the chat box.

witch hunts are great btw.

[Armand]

My OP states ways Notorious could counter macroing. If you are expecting people not to macro out of the kindness of their heart, then you must be from some planet I have never visited before.

How can you misconstrue both written English and sarcasm so badly?

My post wasn't a stab at your op at all.

[mindtrigger]

:You don't know me, so don't make yourself sound like a fool by pretending you do. I play sandbox games because I like being a part of a real living breathing game community. I didn't come here to min/max or macro myself to glory. In addition, my opinion on this matter has nothing at all to do with my tribe. We don't have a tribe "macro maker". Interesting you should bring something like that up...

Ok, I read your first paragraph, that’s about all I can handle. Your awesome, you’re smart, your cool, etc...etc..etc... I don’t know you, nor do I care to.

"because I like being a part of a real living breathing game community" I would not consider a video game that but hey, it’s obviously very close to your heart.

Cheating angers me. Thats all I have to say.

Great, another genius who wants to start an argument, but can't be arsed to read follow-up posts or come up with a coherent reply. The 'TL;DR' generation at its best.

[billpaustin]

We should separate the two types of macroing:
1) creating a "shortcut" that typically collapses several keystrokes into one. This is acceptable and actually should be expected in games.
2) creating a routine where the game is being played without a human. I consider this an exploit, along with terrain exploits, etc.

For example, a simple terrain exploit is to find a place that you cannot be hit, and you can hit the enemy. Easier with a pet in the game, just stand on top of a big, inaccessible rock next to a spot you know a single creature spawns on, and park your pet there. Then when the creature spawns, your pet kills it, and you watch TV or go fishing.

A macro exploit in Xsyon might be for fishing. Your character patiently fishes using a looped macro, and when you come back tomorrow, you're full of fish and have levelled.

So, how could you tell if someone is running an automated looping macro? You probably can't. Not a good one, anyway.

I've seen two problematic results from looping macros: characters that leveled this way sometimes are very inept for the level they are at, and the economy can be ruined.

[orious13]

I really think that everyone grinding/macroing away on running/swimming/jumping/foraging/fishing right now is kind of burning themselves out. There's nothing in my mind that says those that have 100 in these skills will be leaps and bounds better off than most players. Maybe a little better, but since I can I fish fine with 30 fishing, run for a long long time with 20 run etc. I don't see a need to actually grind them except for raising my character's level. That being said, I'm not going to even use those skill points until they complete most of combat and add more weapon styles. That's just me, though. I feel like macroing a lot of things in this game won't be a game killer like other games, which is good development.

I do think that hide shouldn't level up unless you're around non-friends and/or gain xp per distance traveled or per step.

[mindtrigger]

How can you misconstrue both written English and sarcasm so badly?

My post wasn't a stab at your op at all.

The sarcasm I read in your post sounded like it was anti-macro. Unfortunately your tone does not come out well from what you wrote. If it wasn't anti-macro in nature, then I still don't know what it meant.

[Dweetybyrd]

Great, another genius who wants to start an argument, but can't be arsed to read follow-up posts or come up with a coherent reply. The 'TL;DR' generation at its best.

no argument hero....

Just dont feel like continually reading how cool you are in the virtual world.

Have a great day.


The sarcasm I read in your post sounded like it was anti-macro. Unfortunately your tone does not come out well from what you wrote. If it wasn't anti-macro in nature, then I still don't know what it meant.

Tone? from a text? get out and socialize with some real people, itll do a body good ;)

[billpaustin]

Also, why can't games become more fun. I mean, I know some people enjoy just clicking their mouse over and over again, but practically every MMO that has ever come out uses click and wait crafting and harvesting. I think it's getting pretty old now.

The best harvesting and crafting is when it is a mini-game. For example, in Ryzom (a good sandbox game), you harvest by first prospecting for mats, and then harvesting them. Except, mats can explode when you harvest them, and you die. You have to watch the danger bar, and quickly react by using a placate skill before going back to digging. That could not be automated. Harvesting is essentially like fighting a mob for it's mats.

Vanguard had a good crafting mini-game system: as each action is performed, there is a chance of an error, and you have to quickly apply the correct counter-measure. Again, not easy to automate.

[mindtrigger]

We should separate the two types of macroing:
1) creating a "shortcut" that typically collapses several keystrokes into one. This is acceptable and actually should be expected in games.
2) creating a routine where the game is being played without a human. I consider this an exploit, along with terrain exploits, etc.

For example, a simple terrain exploit is to find a place that you cannot be hit, and you can hit the enemy. Easier with a pet in the game, just stand on top of a big, inaccessible rock next to a spot you know a single creature spawns on, and park your pet there. Then when the creature spawns, your pet kills it, and you watch TV or go fishing.

A macro exploit in Xsyon might be for fishing. Your character patiently fishes using a looped macro, and when you come back tomorrow, you're full of fish and have levelled.

So, how could you tell if someone is running an automated looping macro? You probably can't. Not a good one, anyway.

I've seen two problematic results from looping macros: characters that leveled this way sometimes are very inept for the level they are at, and the economy can be ruined.

I agree with this.

The issue of the game being "played" while someone walks away is a bit of a gray area though, and it is very rare to create a macro where this would work for any long length of time. Fishing works (I assume, I don't have a fishing pole in the game) because it is a very simple movement that is easily programmed into a macro.

Other game developers have defeated macros with Fishing by adding an interactive element and/or variable timing element. Where macros shine is when the clicks are exactly the same (or near it) every time. This is why I believe it is up to the developers to make the game more interactive in the first place.

[orious13]

Tone? from a text? get out and socialize with some real people, itll do a body good ;)

lol... People do read books don't they?
Writing can definitely have emotion within it. I say "can" because a lot of people use internet speak and no grammar, which makes it harder to analyze.

[mindtrigger]

no argument hero....

Just dont feel like continually reading how cool you are in the virtual world.

Have a great day.



Tone? from a text? get out and socialize with some real people, itll do a body good ;)

My player name is WingChun in the game, which is the martial art I practice in real life and one of the main reasons I will be a casual player in this game. My body is doing just fine. ;)

[Dweetybyrd]

Right on, well said!

Point was to get some fresh air, thanks for clearing that up ;)

[billpaustin]

of course, as everything does, this comes right back to the safe zone / combat discussion.

How do you tell if someone's macroing?

Attack them. If they don't fight back and just die...they were macroing.


They should implement a "shove" action, that doesn't do damage, but interrupts the task being done. Put a 2 hour timer on it or something, to keep from incessant griefing. That can be done even on tribal lands. (Hmm, I can see all kinds of fun with this :) )

[Dweetybyrd]

great job man! A ninja!

It really is amazing what some people put in forums.

I dont want to get in a forum war man. Your a virtual god, and a ninja in real life. I am a professional eater.... time to go train, more hotdogs...grrrrrrrr.

[billpaustin]

I agree with this.

The issue of the game being "played" while someone walks away is a bit of a gray area though, and it is very rare to create a macro where this would work for any long length of time. Fishing works (I assume, I don't have a fishing pole in the game) because it is a very simple movement that is easily programmed into a macro.

That applies to many things in this game. Take foraging, how hard to write a simple script that walks a perimeter? Time it to maximize coverage, rest if you have to, and wait for it to regrow. Repeat.

The good news for Xsyon is that these resources don't affect much. Creating more complicated things, like buildings, armor, weapons, etc, probably cannot be profitably automated.

[mindtrigger]

great job man! A ninja!

It really is amazing what some people put in forums.

I dont want to get in a forum war man. Your a virtual god, and a ninja in real life. I am a professional eater.... time to go train, more hotdogs...grrrrrrrr.

A couple things:

1) I'm not even remotely angry. I love a good debate, and I can have one without nerd rage. I also don't mind being proven wrong if someone can do it.

2) Ninjas practice Japanese arts, the most well known being Ninjitsu, among others. Wing Chun is Chinese Kung Fu, and has nothing to do with ninjas. (I realize you were likely just being a smart ass, but I figured I would educate you for the hell of it.)

[Dweetybyrd]

A couple things:

1) I'm not even remotely angry. I love a good debate, and I can have one without nerd rage. I also don't mind being proven wrong if someone can do it.

2) Ninjas practice Japanese arts, the most well known being Ninjitsu, among others. Wing Chun is Chinese Kung Fu, and has nothing to do with ninjas. (I realize you were likely just being a smart ass, but I figured I would educate you for the hell of it.)

I was being a smart ass, thanks for the lesson sifu

[Chavoda]

Macro's are going to have a huge impact on gameplay if not enforced harshly.

xsyon has a soft cap, meaning you have to upkeep your skills. the more time you spent online training the skills you want the more skills you can keep up to max level.
macro's allow people to ignore any macro able skill in game during thier normal play time and keep those skills up by using macro's as they sleep.

Hiding,running,jumping,teraforming are the most easy to macro. but skills like foraging and scavenging can be used in a macro aswell.
A smart player would focus on two skills to macro , once they got max skill and all level points out of it , they switch to two other skills, letting the first two decay , getting max skill and level points again, repeat this and you have a never ending supply of level points you can use to upkeep more skills whit. all in all resulting in a heavy adv over player that do not use them.

[mindtrigger]

That applies to many things in this game. Take foraging, how hard to write a simple script that walks a perimeter? Time it to maximize coverage, rest if you have to, and wait for it to regrow. Repeat.

The good news for Xsyon is that these resources don't affect much. Creating more complicated things, like buildings, armor, weapons, etc, probably cannot be profitably automated.

Good reply!

Some people seem to have the impression that you can build a macro that will function as an artificial intelligence of sorts and play the game for you. They don't work that way.

Added after 7 minutes:


Actually, it's romanized as Ninjutsu, which you should know being so edumucated.

Romanization (or transliteration/transcription) is not an exact art. There are various romanizations for all kinds of Asian words. For example, the art I practice is romanized, depending on your preference, as 'Wing Chun', 'Ving Tsun', 'Wing Tsun', 'Weng Chun', etc. The spelling isn't the main feature of doing this. Being able to read and/or say the word in your native language is.

[mindtrigger]

Hey, don't blame me when ninjas poison your well water because you can't romanize correctly!

;) Duly noted.

[mantoe]

Take yer stinkin' kung hu huju talk and sit on it! NO one gives steaming, gold, turd about what "arts" you parc-tise. I got your art danglin'

[jumpshot]

How do you tell if someone's macroing?

Attack them. If they don't fight back and just die...they were macroing.

this !

[orious13]

Macro's are going to have a huge impact on gameplay if not enforced harshly.

xsyon has a soft cap, meaning you have to upkeep your skills. the more time you spent online training the skills you want the more skills you can keep up to max level.
macro's allow people to ignore any macro able skill in game during thier normal play time and keep those skills up by using macro's as they sleep.

Hiding,running,jumping,teraforming are the most easy to macro. but skills like foraging and scavenging can be used in a macro aswell.
A smart player would focus on two skills to macro , once they got max skill and all level points out of it , they switch to two other skills, letting the first two decay , getting max skill and level points again, repeat this and you have a never ending supply of level points you can use to upkeep more skills whit. all in all resulting in a heavy adv over player that do not use them.

Don't forget that the plan for skill degradation can be more than just "over time it gets lower". It could include "While maxing leather crafting 3/4 of all my crafting skills dropped down to 60 or 50." Soft cap or not, the decay system can balance a lot of things and make specialization actually occur in the game. Also you'll need a LOT of skill points to make any dent in higher skills. I would also assume you'd either cap character leveling or make that change exponentially as well or let age effect the rate or something.

[mrcalhou]

Don't forget that the plan for skill degradation can be more than just "over time it gets lower". It could include "While maxing leather crafting 3/4 of all my crafting skills dropped down to 60 or 50." Soft cap or not, the decay system can balance a lot of things and make specialization actually occur in the game. Also you'll need a LOT of skill points to make any dent in higher skills. I would also assume you'd either cap character leveling or make that change exponentially as well or let age effect the rate or something.

I used to not like the skill decay idea, but when it comes to crafting it does seem pretty good. For combat though, I'd prefer a system where you were given so many points and each skill (or ability) cost so many points and you could equip/change skills (or abilities) at a totem, now that anyone can place a totem.

[Sirius]

How do you tell if someone's macroing?

Attack them. If they don't fight back and just die...they were macroing.


You don't really believe this, do you Dubs?

Try again, sir :P

[Hopkins]

If it floats than it is a macro.

[jumpshot]

If it floats than it is a macro.

+10000000000