AFK actions

[Shrimps]

I am already seeing people running afk into walls, etc. So is this allowed?

Is there a firm stance against this? Or for it?

Where is the /report function to report afk macroers/autorunners?

Should I start doing this now to not fall behind?

Also video evidence, is this accepted or not?

Need to have a Dev answer these questions completely and leave no grey areas.

[cod3r_]

as with most "laws" after the fact.. they don't stop the bad guys from doing it and many times getting away with it. It's better to start bitching now about how the game can be improved so that macroing doesn't give a clear advantage..

[xenoclix]

If you see a player running into a wall afk and out of their safe zone. Easy solution, kill them :D. Macroer down!

Saying that it would be nice to have a /report button for these kind of happenings.

[warmslumbers13]

the issue is most of them find a spot to do it in their safe zone.. even sen a guy doing it halfway up a water fall where the water would help conceal him afk grinding while in his safe zone..

[tredo]

Search is your friend.... you should talk to it more!!

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/2185-AFK-switch

[Aethaeryn]

Search is your friend.... you should talk to it more!!

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/2185-AFK-switch

Except they are completely different topics on the first page. . you changed your topic. . anyone starting to read the thread will not think it is about that.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

/h is the help command. Tell the GM about it. First you should watch them for a minute to make sure they are really afk. If they are clearly macroing tell the GM they will investigate.

[Saorlan]

If at all possible AFK macroers should be killed on sight. If there are any in your tribe then that is even better as you will be able to kill them easy.

[blackzilla]

This post made me warm and fuzzy in my pants....

PS. Happy saint patty's day folks

[Xidian]

I see nothing wrong with auto-running into a wall. 9 times out of 10 that guy you see is at his keyboard because you have to rest every once in awhile. Also the advantage they get in running isn't that much, all it does it make you fatigued less well running. Also, only time people really did this was when all features were turned off, now that their back on most people just go on with their regular stuff.

[Saorlan]

I see nothing wrong with auto-running into a wall. 9 times out of 10 that guy you see is at his keyboard because you have to rest every once in awhile. Also the advantage they get in running isn't that much, all it does it make you fatigued less well running. Also, only time people really did this was when all features were turned off, now that their back on most people just go on with their regular stuff.

I see lots wrong with AFK macroers - report em and then skin em is what I say. Darkfall was ruined because of them.

[Xidian]

I see lots wrong with AFK macroers - report em and then skin em is what I say. Darkfall was ruined because of them.

But most of the people aren't AFK OR Macroing.

[blackzilla]

But most of the people aren't AFK OR Macroing.

Exactly I sit at my keyboard talking for hours while I am running into a rock...

[Saorlan]

Exactly I sit at my keyboard talking for hours while I am running into a rock...

LOL if this is true - very sad ;)

[blackzilla]

LOL if this is true - very sad ;)

Lol, almost done running....

[Sirius]

Another possibility is that you do nothing because you recognize it would be ridiculous for the devs to discipline people for autorunning, and avoid wasting their time with it.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

Another possibility is that you do nothing because you recognize it would be ridiculous for the devs to discipline people for autorunning, and avoid wasting their time with it.

Spoken like an AFK macro'r... If you aren't AFK then running into walls is a perfectly acceptable waste of time. However like in darkfall the MAJORITY of people doing this are not there. So like I said. If you find one observe them for awhile, and make sure they are afk. Go poke them with a stick, and see if they move. THEN report them to not waste the Admins time.

[noiseed]

People can make a macro that does the resting and the running.

All i would like is that we have no macroers, and yes there are people who just run into a wall to LVL up and they are not AFK, but how do we differ?

If there were no safezones, Macroers would have some trouble ;] even though there should be some kind of a safezone that prevents players from griefing.

[joexxxz]

I have a solution. Running skill should only work/count, not on tribe territory. So if u running into a wall on your tribe territory, it should not increase your skill. Also when you run, your movement should be recorded for the last 5? steps. And if those steps are a certain amount of distance then count the running skill

[Sirius]

Spoken like an AFK macro'r... If you aren't AFK then running into walls is a perfectly acceptable waste of time. However like in darkfall the MAJORITY of people doing this are not there. So like I said. If you find one observe them for awhile, and make sure they are afk. Go poke them with a stick, and see if they move. THEN report them to not waste the Admins time.

I don't macro, afk or otherwise, in this game, because it's against the rules. And I don't autorun into walls either -- not because it's against any rules (it's not) but because it's boring and when the server is actually available, I want to actually play. Further, your method for "making sure" someone is AFK is quite a stretch, even if anyone agrees with you that people should be banned for (OMG!) autorunning.

In sum, your attempt at character assassination was pointless, and your suggestion unhelpful.

[Mactavendish]

Have you ever heard the phrase... "Me thinks he protests too much"?

Many time the very ones shouting the loudest about macroing are the ones that have been doing it all along, and now that they have finished macroing a skill, the want it to be unavailable to others... thus giving THEM an advantage.

Running against a wall or rock will indeed level your running, but running around on roads will do it much faster.

Just feel sorry for those that have no life and like to watch their toon running in place.

[blackzilla]

Have you ever heard the phrase... "Me thinks he protests too much"?

Many time the very ones shouting the loudest about macroing are the ones that have been doing it all along, and now that they have finished macroing a skill, the want it to be unavailable to others... thus giving THEM an advantage.

Running against a wall or rock will indeed level your running, but running around on roads will do it much faster.

Just feel sorry for those that have no life and like to watch their toon running in place.

Found a rock in the middle of the road, we called it the running rock club. We ad about 10 of us all using it and we could all high 5 each other was an awesome night.

[Sirius]

Have you ever heard the phrase... "Me thinks he protests too much"?

Many time the very ones shouting the loudest about macroing are the ones that have been doing it all along, and now that they have finished macroing a skill, the want it to be unavailable to others... thus giving THEM an advantage.

Running against a wall or rock will indeed level your running, but running around on roads will do it much faster.

Just feel sorry for those that have no life and like to watch their toon running in place.

"Lol, you're macro'ing, because I said so."

"No, actually I'm not."

"Uhm, yeah you are. And now you're lying about it, too."

This is pure comedy. Some people are so sure that everyone who disagrees with their silly ideas is a cheater.

You can rest assured that (1) I don't macro in this game, because it's against the rules; (2) I don't autorun to skillup, because it's boring; (3) the idea of banning people for skilling by autorunning is silly.

[Jadzia]

I see lots wrong with AFK macroers - report em and then skin em is what I say. Darkfall was ruined because of them.

Agree. AFK macroing should be dealt with asap.

[cod3r_]

I see lots wrong with AFK macroers - report em and then skin em is what I say. Darkfall was ruined because of them.

no dude.. the horrible grind killed darkfall.. and the fact that you need every single skill maxed out to compete.. which is a balance issue.. People just macroed to keep up..

as i said earlier.. if the game requires macros that is a fundamental flaw with the game. if a macroer can afk run against a wall and skill his run to max in a week but it takes a normal person playing the game 10 weeks.. that is a serious flaw.. that's what needs to be balanced.. can't just ban off everyone who macros if the game is such a boring grind that you gota macro..

[Zenmaster13]

no dude.. the horrible grind killed darkfall.. and the fact that you need every single skill maxed out to compete.. which is a balance issue.. People just macroed to keep up..

as i said earlier.. if the game requires macros that is a fundamental flaw with the game. if a macroer can afk run against a wall and skill his run to max in a week but it takes a normal person playing the game 10 weeks.. that is a serious flaw.. that's what needs to be balanced.. can't just ban off everyone who macros if the game is such a boring grind that you gota macro..

No game requires you to macro. If it did, it would advertise it. "You need macros to play this game it's Macro Online". If a game is so boring to you, that you feel you must macro, then you really need to find a more exciting game, otherwise you are just a masochist.

I would like to hear your suggestion on how to balance a game against macroing.

Why people would pay a monthly sub to have macros running is beyond reasoning. It is just a gimme response from the instant gratification crowd.

[redrazor]

I can answer that altough I never macroed in my life.

People macro because they want to be "The Top Dog"

They play just to be able to bolster sentences like "I capped my toon's running in 2 hours" or "I got the greatest PK combat toon build ever and I built him in 3 days. I pawnz U!"

Thats how people have fun these days. Their real lifes are so intensilly miserable that the only escape from the idea of just killing yourself is hiding in a game and pretending to be something you'll never be out there: Someone that matters to anyone.

So they do everything possible to capture atention. Because they lack imagination, they see capping and beeing "The Top Dog" as the only viable way of capturing any atention whatsoever, so they go for it.

But beeing very good at something, even in a game takes time, and needs effort put into it. So people look for a way to work around this. Hence, they use macros. If thats not enough, they bitch to the devs for more junk/more sand/more baskets/faster skill leveling/faster bar when using a skill/better drops/more drops/easier terraforming/basket recipes for everyone/whatever facies you today. Im even surprised I havent seen anyone ask a dev for a fully built capped character...oh wait...tahts where Gold Farmer companies come in...because of course...if people werent buying that level capped super dupper character, they wouldn't be selling it, now would they.

Sad, but true...

EDITED: Concerning Lag..
Perhaps...just perhaps, Devs should be looking into how people are macroiing in Xsyon. Maybe if a few folks get banned the lag could possible and magically improve...just maybe.

I dont know, if actions are causing lag...maybe if an action gets sent to the server every 7 seconds...that might cause some choking...no?

[Sirius]

I don't suppose you actually played Darkfall, eh?

Regardless, I'd imagine that balancing the game against macroing would be a lot easier than effectively and reliably identifying macro'ers... and the playerbase would benefit as a whole, because instead of having a mindless grind that's just begging to be macro'd, there might be a more interesting system that actually provides some feedback and interaction (you know -- something to do).

This, I think, is more or less the same point Coder was making.

Added after 7 minutes:


Maybe if a few folks get banned the lag could possible and magically improve...just maybe.

I dont know, if actions are causing lag...maybe if an action gets sent to the server every 7 seconds...that might cause some choking...no?

Very difficult to pay serious attention to commenter who says something like this. You realize that half the game is clicking the same action button over and over again, right? At most you'd be talking about a flat increase of activity for a few players, not some game-changing lag bomb. The ping problems you're seeing are due to the need for optimization, not the crushing impact of macro'ers.

[Rutaq]

No game requires you to macro. If it did, it would advertise it. "You need macros to play this game it's Macro Online". If a game is so boring to you, that you feel you must macro, then you really need to find a more exciting game, otherwise you are just a masochist.

I would like to hear your suggestion on how to balance a game against macroing.

Why people would pay a monthly sub to have macros running is beyond reasoning. It is just a gimme response from the instant gratification crowd.

Hmm, I think you are looking at the Macroing the wrong way. The majority of players do not macro because they enjoy it. They do it for power.


Let me break it down for you...

Xsyon Character advancement:

1) In skill point based systems the higher your skill rating the more powerful or useful the skill.
2) Skill points are gained through a repetitive use of an action.
3) Most game actions are a simple key press followed by waiting a couple seconds. They are not very engaging and not very fun.


So now that we have defined the basic systems of play / advancement lets move on to how a player would macro.

1) Most game controllers and even gaming mice have the ability to run a simple macro that presses a key ever X seconds.
2) For more complex actions programs like AutoIt or AutoHotKey can let you build complex macros that can even track variables, analyze screen pixels and replicate mouse movements.


Ok, so we know How your character becomes more powerful, We know how to set up a macro and the last thing to cover is the Why a player would macro ?


Players are by nature competitive, they want their character to be better, richer, tougher than everyone else. Skill advancement is not engaging and not fun.

Macros are tempting because:

1) Macros give them ability to make their character better without having to give 100% of your focus to the repetitive tasks in the game. You can watch a movie, make dinner, do laundry and just check in on your character once in a while.

2) Complex Macros can automate much of the simple character building game play. This can be handy when you are sleeping , at school or at work. Imagine playing for 6 hours with your friends but then your character continues gains skill points for 18 hours while you are sleep and at work.



At the end of the day it is important for the Developers of a game to acknowledge Marcos and define their policy. Macros are not new they have been around since UO and it is unfortuante that the Xsyon launched without a clearly defined policy around them.

So now we have a PvP sandbox game with players looking to get an edge over each other and players that dislike Macroing feeling like they will fall behind if they don't use them. Suddenly Marcoing becomes the norm and the players that dislike Macroing feel forced to do it and can even develop a dislike for the game itself for the encouragement of skill advancement by Macroing.


The Devs have some work to do...

1) They need to clearly state what the official policy is regarding Macroing.
2) If they forbid Macroing or at least unattended Macroing. Then they need to devise a system to enforce the rules.

One of the easiest systems to design is a /report function players can use, that can help flag accused player activity and who /reported them. Sadly unless there is extensive logging or a force Captcha system a GM or In game staff person will have to do the leg work to investigate reported macroing. The /report function tied to a secret in game reward for players that successfully identify players breaking can be a quick and relatively effective system.

Secretly rewarding a player that reports an AFK Marcoer with some token like a handful of free skill points is key. You would be surprised how often players will report others for Macroing when the get even a token reward and can be anonymous.



Personally, I dislike Marcoing and I think it puts useless strain on the server. But if Xsyon doesn't take a stand on it soon, then it will fall victim to it just like Darkfall did where 1 year after launch they finally tried to address the problem and in the end had to redesign and re-balance the skill advancement to deal with the Hyper skill point inflation the Marcoing caused.

[Sirius]

2) If they forbid Macroing or at least unattended Macroing. Then they need to devise a system to enforce the rules.


Quoted for emphasis. And, the CAPTCHA idea is intriguing -- perhaps the only thing that could reliably work? (Or at least, potentially a very cheap and easy mechanism that would produce few or no false positives.)

I'd envision a reporting system where a flagged player can be confronted by a Guide, who will then lock down that player's conduct with a CAPTCHA. No ban occurs, but the player can't do anything else until he answers the CAPTCHA. Sounds to me like that might work like a charm.

[coca]

The pixel detection feature is easily set up using auto-it the most common macro program being used.
Captcha will only slow anyone down for 15-20 mnutes to figure out how to write the next skript to get around it.

[Sirius]

You can break a new CAPTCHA in 20 minutes?

[jumpshot]

The thing about AFK running in to rocks, and even AFK macro'ing MOST stuff..

... is it doesn't matter.

This isn't Darkfall. There are systems in place ALREADY to limit the viability, necessity, and usefulness of macro'ing.

In this game, you may reach 75 Fishing a week faster than someone who doesn't macro. This isn't going to be game breaking, in fact it probably won't win you a fight.

Eventually you stop getting XP for skills after you've done them too much.



My point is just... yes, it's less than ideal that people macro. However, it's not game breaking. In a week or two any hardcore player will be caught up to any macro'er, and probably have less stat loss to show for it.

[Brilliant]

no dude.. the horrible grind killed darkfall.. and the fact that you need every single skill maxed out to compete.. which is a balance issue.. People just macroed to keep up..

Agreed.

For the first few weeks of Darkfall most of my clan spent all of their in-game time actually out playing and PvPing, and would set macroes just when they went to sleep or work. Gankers would come by in the middle of the night and explore all the nooks of our city to gank the AFKers, sometimes defended by Euros who were still up. Nice little balance.

...Then people started coming out of the woodwork from other clans who had spent every minute of active playing, as well as AFK, macroing. They were doing 2-3x as much damage blow-for-blow as we were, and with no skill cap in sight, even people from my clan slowly started spending their at-keyboard time macroing just to try and catch up. It was pathetic.

Edit:

My point is just... yes, it's less than ideal that people macro. However, it's not game breaking. In a week or two any hardcore player will be caught up to any macro'er, and probably have less stat loss to show for it.
Exactly. Skill caps are good thing!

[cod3r_]

No game requires you to macro. If it did, it would advertise it. "You need macros to play this game it's Macro Online". If a game is so boring to you, that you feel you must macro, then you really need to find a more exciting game, otherwise you are just a masochist.

I would like to hear your suggestion on how to balance a game against macroing.

Why people would pay a monthly sub to have macros running is beyond reasoning. It is just a gimme response from the instant gratification crowd.

my suggestion would be don't make all things a terribly long skill up.. running for example.. say a guy runs day and night against a wall and he gets it to max in 1 week. People playing the game (as in running around normally) should be able to get there in just a few weeks.

So the guy who broke the rules only has an advantage for a very short time.

Some skills should go faster than others.. maybe top notch crafting should be slow but something as key as running and combat should be reatively fast so that people can play the game and enjoy themselves and get there in a resonable amount of time.. while the macroer only gains an advantage for a very short amount of time.. meanwhile risking his account..

it's all about risk vs reward.. don't make it worth the risk to macro..

[Morgan]

Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one:

You see them running about 5-10 seconds after they have been by.

We were experiencing that last night. We had instant communication thanks to skype and there was a noticeable 5-10 lag between what someone told me they were doing, and what I saw on my screen.

This is no doubt due to the lag problems Jordi is working on rather than some conspiracy.

Next thing I know, you guys are going to start a post about how ancient aliens used to play xsyon and Jordi just stole their code.

[jumpshot]

oops duplicate like 5 min later

[Rutaq]

Morgan are you claiming that players don't / won't Macro ?

Lag is lag but the advantages gained by Marco'ing are something completely different and you would be in serious denial to claim won't happen in Xsyon.

MMO 101... No matter how little the power difference, how fast skill gains are while actively player, players will always want to gain an advantage against others and to find the fastest and easiest way to get there.

[Morgan]

Morgan as you claiming that players don't / won't Macro ?

Lag is lag but the advantages gained by Marco'ing are something completely different and you would be in serious denial to claim won't happen in Xsyon.

MMO 101... No matter how little the power difference, how fast skill gains are while actively player, players will always want to gain an advantage against others and to find the fastest and easiest way to get there.



congratulations, you were able to fabricate a statement, ask me if I made it, and then argue against it, you have now argued against your own made up microcosm, winning.

I said no such thing.

If you're looking for an implication I'll give you one:

"Out of all possible motivation/causality which could explain current on-screen observation, the plurality of the behavior can be explained by a far simpler solution than abusing game mechanics." -- Morgan

[redrazor]

I agree with Jumpshot. It doesnt really matter...

But stat loss must be in. If the system is complex enough you have a penalty for straining yourself. Do too much of something without a break and suffer the consequences.

I mean, if we spent 18 hours running and if we werent much of a runner would we become a marthonist? No, we would probably strain a muscle and get a permanent injury.

The game has stat loss, and this can be explored more conviniently to stop this type of thing.

As for me honestly, I dont really care who's out there with caped skills. This is not a PvP game, it just has pvP. its not an exclusive activity and people may stay away from it if it gets too unbalanced.
Contrary to some I actually have fun doing stuff. The action in itself is fun for me, not the end result.

I can asure you, if the only interest I had was having maximum skill and not the enjoyment of getting there, I wouldnt play this game.

[Morgan]

Jumpshot is correct, that's for sure.

[Shrimps]

Let me elaborate on the subject a bit.

It was not in fact lag, I was playing at around 6AM when there was no lag. I was gathering and could see him for 15+ minutes running into the same rock while his clan mates ran around him and performed other tasks. I went into their camp to fraps what he was doing their leader killed me in an attempt to cover up what was going on. I was naked at the time so I didn't lose anything though and I still got the footage while in ghost mode.

Macroing is very damaging to the game. I could spend all night using a fishing macro and wake up with 30+ points to put into whatever skill I wanted. Or running into a rock to get my running skill up and reduce stam loss by a large amount.

A CAPTCHA system or any in game automated system wouldn't work. A dedicated macroer would be able to code around it. In Darkfall there were macros around that would even answer GM's when they PM'd you and would click out of any system boxes that appeared.

There needs to be a firm stance taken against it now or honestly I see no reason why we shouldn't just start posting macros to the forums so at least everyone has a fair chance at it.

[Sirius]

A CAPTCHA system or any in game automated system wouldn't work. A dedicated macroer would be able to code around it. In Darkfall there were macros around that would even answer GM's when they PM'd you and would click out of any system boxes that appeared.


You do realize that a decent CAPTCHA is going to be much harder to get around than a tell from a GM, right? Do you know what CAPTCHA stands for?

A couple other points:

(1) Do you have any evidence that this guy was macroing? Or even a good reason to think it was macroing instead of just AFK autorun?

(2) Have you considered that when you run into the middle of someone's camp uninvited, you might be killed for reasons other than what you seem to think is "covering up cheating"?

[thosler3]

im autorunning into a wall during primetime cause its too laggy ;)

[ColonelTEE3]

no dude.. the horrible grind killed darkfall.. and the fact that you need every single skill maxed out to compete.. which is a balance issue.. People just macroed to keep up..

as i said earlier.. if the game requires macros that is a fundamental flaw with the game. if a macroer can afk run against a wall and skill his run to max in a week but it takes a normal person playing the game 10 weeks.. that is a serious flaw.. that's what needs to be balanced.. can't just ban off everyone who macros if the game is such a boring grind that you gota macro..

First sensible post in this thread. He's right.

If its a grind, it will be macroed, because not everyone is content playing casually. Many people in this game are competitive, and this is an edge.

The rest of you can troll yourselves all you want about how "macroing isn't needed, lets all just agree not to macro!" because you're afraid to be competitive or you just want everyone else to be as uncompetitive as you. That way, when you get rocked in a fight you can use the excuse "im not bad, they're macroer cheaters!"

Banning people for macroing is just banning competitive players for reacting competitively to a grindy aspect of the game.

Regardless, this is HARDLY the biggest issue in the game right now. If devs seriously waste their time hunting down macroers while they leave the game in the state it currently is in, then you can start to seriously be worried.

[jumpshot]

Macroing is very damaging to the game. I could spend all night using a fishing macro and wake up with 30+ points to put into whatever skill I wanted. Or running into a rock to get my running skill up and reduce stam loss by a large amount.

Thats right, you could. And after you do this 2-3 times you won't gain anything from it. A week later you won't be ahead of anyone. Seems like Jordi already adressed your concerns to me.


The rest of you can troll yourselves all you want about how "macroing isn't needed, lets all just agree not to macro!" because you're afraid to be competitive or you just want everyone else to be as uncompetitive as you. That way, when you get rocked in a fight you can use the excuse "im not bad, they're macroer cheaters!"

Banning people for macroing is just banning competitive players for reacting competitively to a grindy aspect of the game.

Regardless, this is HARDLY the biggest issue in the game right now. If devs seriously waste their time hunting down macroers while they leave the game in the state it currently is in, then you can start to seriously be worried.

Basically this. Not saying there's a shortcoming in peopel that aren't competitve or don't want to macro, obviously, but I don't see the macro complaints as much more than pre-emptive excuse making.

I guess I just disagree that macros are game breaking.*


im autorunning into a wall during primetime cause its too laggy ;)

I hope you're periodically relogging, or otherwise you're the reason it's too laggy!

[ac1dtrip]

First sensible post in this thread. He's right.

If its a grind, it will be macroed, because not everyone is content playing casually. Many people in this game are competitive, and this is an edge.

The rest of you can troll yourselves all you want about how "macroing isn't needed, lets all just agree not to macro!" because you're afraid to be competitive or you just want everyone else to be as uncompetitive as you. That way, when you get rocked in a fight you can use the excuse "im not bad, they're macroer cheaters!"

Banning people for macroing is just banning competitive players for reacting competitively to a grindy aspect of the game.

Regardless, this is HARDLY the biggest issue in the game right now. If devs seriously waste their time hunting down macroers while they leave the game in the state it currently is in, then you can start to seriously be worried.

I used to agree with you. Ok I'll stop lying. I've played games for countless hours a day and casually I've competed against many we all have. I have learned early on in gaming that the rabbit doesn't always beat the tortoise. As in playing the game your skills with said macroe'd content will usually be better than the macroer because you have spent more time using the skill instead of watching the bar move up. Although grind can always be an issue skill always beats stats when there is a stat cap.

[Shrimps]

Thats right, you could. And after you do this 2-3 times you won't gain anything from it. A week later you won't be ahead of anyone. Seems like Jordi already adressed your concerns to me.



Yes you're right, except that I could macro fishing one night, macro running the next, macro hide walking the next, macro terraforming level terrain the next, macro scavenging the next, etc. etc.

By the end of it all I' will have enough points to get a huge lead on everyone.

Also to whoever said they need to fix the game before worrying about macroers. That's the exact stance DF took and the macroers killed the game for a long time. The devs were way too late in implementing solutions to stop macroing and it was too late, everyone was already built up.

[Dubanka]

the leveling thing doesnt give you taht much of advantage.

1:1 pt ration at 5-9
2:1 pt ratio at 10 -19
3:1 pt ratio at 20-29
4:1 pt ratio at 30-39

I assume it keeps going but have not tried to use points above level 30 of a skill yet.

so while leveling gets you up the 20 pretty quickly, it's not a huge big deal.

and now, i don't macro, altho i have been known to run into a wall when you literally couldnt do anyting else.

also, running, jumping, i'd presume swiimming, don't make the xp bar move. so while you may be skilling up, your not actually getting the leveling points for it.

[Sirius]

Also to whoever said they need to fix the game before worrying about macroers. That's the exact stance DF took and the macroers killed the game for a long time. The devs were way too late in implementing solutions to stop macroing and it was too late, everyone was already built up.

Grind killed DF, bro. Macroing was a predictable consequence of that crapfest leveling system.

[cod3r_]

Yes you're right, except that I could macro fishing one night, macro running the next, macro hide walking the next, macro terraforming level terrain the next, macro scavenging the next, etc. etc.

By the end of it all I' will have enough points to get a huge lead on everyone.

Also to whoever said they need to fix the game before worrying about macroers. That's the exact stance DF took and the macroers killed the game for a long time. The devs were way too late in implementing solutions to stop macroing and it was too late, everyone was already built up.

um no dude.. macroing in Darkfall TODAY is still better than not. They have the meditation system but it doesn't work for specific spells. With the respawn rate of mobs and the fact that you actually have to hit them.. Macroing is still the number one way to level your magic..

In other words after 2 years AV has done NOTHING to curb the need to macro..

They tried to start banning people for macroing but it didn't work because the game was still too huge of a grind. People would rather risk the ban than grind their skills on mobs.

[jumpshot]

um no dude.. macroing in Darkfall TODAY is still better than not. They have the meditation system but it doesn't work for specific spells. With the respawn rate of mobs and the fact that you actually have to hit them.. Macroing is still the number one way to level your magic..

In other words after 2 years AV has done NOTHING to curb the need to macro..

They tried to start banning people for macroing but it didn't work because the game was still too huge of a grind. People would rather risk the ban than grind their skills on mobs.

So what you're saying is you don't like Macro'ing in DFO. I agree, and it has nothing to do with this game.

[Sirius]

So what you're saying is you don't like Macro'ing in DFO. I agree, and it has nothing to do with this game.

You're trolling, right? What he's saying is that the design flaws of DF's character system make it more or less essential to macro, as he already said – a point that's potentially relevant to every MMO., including this one.

[ifireallymust]

AFK macroing is botting. That's what it really is. An anti-botting policy costs money. Detection and enforcement cost money that could be going to improve and expand the game. Botters should have their accounts deleted. If a botter wants to play Xsyon without cheating after that, the botter should have to buy the game again.

[Rutaq]

AFK macroing is botting. That's what it really is. An anti-botting policy costs money. Detection and enforcement cost money that could be going to improve and expand the game. Botters should have their accounts deleted. If a botter wants to play Xsyon without cheating after that, the botter should have to buy the game again.

I agree that an anti-botting policy will cost time, money and resources to enforce and It would be great is those time, money and resources could go into something else to expand the game.

But.. there is plenty of MMO history out there to show that lack of enforcement hurts the retention of your players based , specifically in an MMO that offers even the smallest amount of competitive PvP.

The least impactful way I can think of to deal with it is to enlist the playerbase to help police and identify afk macroing and offer some type of reward for offender that is caught. It will still require Xsyon staff or maybe Guides to investigate reported abuses but a reasonable reward and severe punishment I think the majority of the problems can be worked out quickly.


The Devs have made great strides dealing with the lag in the last week, I just hope they don't ignore the the impact of AFK Macroing, Botting,etc before it has a chance to unbalance things.

After doing some simple test with Hiding it is obvious there are many skills in the game that are time consuming to improve and have a significant advantage in PvP, the perfect things to improve with your trusty macro while you are at work or sleeping.

[Sirius]

Yet more reasons for the devs to reconsider character mechanics that reward macroing to sharply. This may be cheaper and have better results than playing cat and mouse with macro'ers.

[ifireallymust]

I agree that an anti-botting policy will cost time, money and resources to enforce and It would be great is those time, money and resources could go into something else to expand the game.

But.. there is plenty of MMO history out there to show that lack of enforcement hurts the retention of your players based , specifically in an MMO that offers even the smallest amount of competitive PvP.

The least impactful way I can think of to deal with it is to enlist the playerbase to help police and identify afk macroing and offer some type of reward for offender that is caught. It will still require Xsyon staff or maybe Guides to investigate reported abuses but a reasonable reward and severe punishment I think the majority of the problems can be worked out quickly.


The Devs have made great strides dealing with the lag in the last week, I just hope they don't ignore the the impact of AFK Macroing, Botting,etc before it has a chance to unbalance things.

After doing some simple test with Hiding it is obvious there are many skills in the game that are time consuming to improve and have a significant advantage in PvP, the perfect things to improve with your trusty macro while you are at work or sleeping.

One of the problems I've had because of lag is that when I do see something that looks wrong, I can't be sure it's not because I'm lagging, the other player is lagging, or both of us are lagging. Maybe when things smooth out and stay that way for a bit (been great the past two days for the most part, anyway) I'll be able to know it when I see it. I can usually tell in other games after I've played awhile.