Item Decay & Skill Decay

[Saolite]

Been trading up and down the northern and eastern zones, and aside from the rare materials and high-value resources that everyone and every tribe is trying to get their hands on, it seems like there's less and less demand for more mundane items.

Tools, baskets, clothes, etc seem to be deteriorating in value extremely quickly, to the point people are just handing them out to get rid of them.

Part of the blame for this is probably because of how easy it is to simply grind Toolcraft, for tools, but the rest of the bigger issue at hand is that there isn't any item decay.

While the PvPing crowd is helping, somewhat, with this -- it doesn't solve the issue at hand that the supply is going ridiculously up and the demand is practically withering away. Eventually, when people begin to craft those higher-end items from ultra rare resources and they don't deteriorate, the world will become flooded with them ( both because of their extremely high quality and the fact that they do not decay as quickly as low-quality parts ).

Even the PvPers are eventually just going to start tossing the items they loot from people.

What item decay directly ties into is Skill Decay. I've got about 30 in almost every craft with a good bit of recipes in all of them ( except Architecture ) -- not because I want to try and jack of all trades it, but simply because I haven't decided what to specialize in.

For the sake of not making specializations obsolete as well as flooding the world with high-end items ( because that's quickly going to happen at this rate ), Skill Decay and Item Decay need to be turned back on.

Not at the cost of performance, but something needs to be done.

I'd just like to get a feel of what everyone else thinks about this, and if they've begun to notice those same trends.

[Niburu]

ofc, item decay and a character system were you have to specialize is needed. However i think they keep this on for a while now so the world gets flooded with first basic tools

[mrcalhou]

Yeah, it kinda sucks. One more area that Eve gets right and most other games get wrong.

[jumpshot]

Not at the cost of performance, but something needs to be done.

Within your question lies the answer.

I would imagine this will be one of the earlier features turned on.

[Saolite]

ofc, item decay and a character system were you have to specialize is needed. However i think they keep this on for a while now so the world gets flooded with first basic tools

The poblem is though I've already seen a few Master Craft items floating around. A few tools that use obsidian already, too ( granted those are still very, very rare ). But the point is that the longer item decay is off, the more these items will begin to show up and the less they will be worth in the long run.

On the one hand, yes, I think basic tools should be fairly widespread. But considering some toosl only require a rock and/or some twine, I'd say the world is nicely saturated with tools and won't "run out" any time soon.

Though more than tools, the rest of the craftable items need decay just as much. Armor ( even if cosmetic only right now ) needs decay. Clothing. Weapons. Tools would be, initially, the biggest to be impacted by item decay. But all crafts would benefit from item decay -- more demand all around. Architecture.....does that deacy? Will that decay? That might be good, too, if there was some type of "upkeep" possible.



Yeah, it kinda sucks. One more area that Eve gets right and most other games get wrong.


I greatly enjoy the way EVE handles it's crafting and economy, in general. But that is sometimes not possible in other games.

[mrcalhou]

I greatly enjoy the way EVE handles it's crafting and economy, in general. But that is sometimes not possible in other games.

I don't see why not.

[Phazaar]

Could a mod close one of these threads? We don't need people clammering to stabilise an economy that doesn't exist yet in a game that's still barely playable half the time... Lag fixes first, then craft+combat (secondary skills too) fixes so there's a purpose in having items at all, THEN we can talk about decay. Get your priorities right guys.

[redrazor]

Altough you might have a point, Phazaar, perhaps one day you'll log into a lag free game where every player/tribe has everything he actually needs.

What will play be like when that happens? Stable and lag free yes, but what else? People just sitting at their completed camps looking through their baskets full of top level gear/weapons/tools.

Then you'll see people demanding that new stuff be added, and that takes time and effort and another roll of server isnatbility as new systems and features are implemented.

I do think lag is a priority, but I also believe that right now the game is stable enough to welcome both item decay and skill decay...both absolutly essential features to make Xsyon work.

[Delvie]

Decay and quality to items cause a hit to database performance. Requires that much more information be communicated back and forth. Though you would think that my crafting knife would disintegrate the first time I carve a tool out of granite with it.

[Mizzlexx]

there is going to be item decay and skill decay etc. they just havent turned it on yet givem time theres more pressing issues like the lag during primetime and some fps issues

[Quavis]

Lack of item decay (aka no items ever leave the system) means that there are more items that the game must constantly track, which doesn't do anything to help performance.

The major issue I see with decay not being turned on is the economy. Right now in-game there is very little supply/demand for anything, and that will only get worse. Once a games economy crashes, it is close to impossible to fix. Right now the only thing keeping the economy stable long term is the fact that most people leveling up their skills atm are DESTROYING everything that they make (because there is nothing else to do with it all).

I realize I'm coming from a crafting perspective (I could care less about pvp), but unless something happens soon, nothing short of a wipe will fix Xsyons economy (and that of course would make people quit). Ultimately that will cause the game to fail. Don't believe me? Take a walk around a bit. How many "Trading Post" tribes/homesteads did you find? Without a working economy, all of those people are gone. At current pace, by the time decay is implemented, everyone will be max skill and have recipes for everything. At that point, item decay is pretty meaningless as everyone can create anything.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

Yes please let's all keep stockpiling everything until the world is covered in bins, and you have a 10 minute delay in opening them.

[bruisie159]

Yes please let's all keep stockpiling everything until the world is covered in bins, and you have a 10 minute delay in opening them.

im getting totally bored now, i have bins full of stuff, nobody wants/needs including me. There is nothing i need to trade for. Once you skilled upo a craft u realise it was pretty pointless. Nothing left to do just a big pointless grind!

[redrazor]

I agree with Quavis. That was my point exactly. Thank you.

[Phazaar]

Altough you might have a point, Phazaar, perhaps one day you'll log into a lag free game where every player/tribe has everything he actually needs.

Unlikely... If there was that little lag I'd have stolen everything from any player stupid enough to venture outside with it :)

What will play be like when that happens? Stable and lag free yes, but what else? People just sitting at their completed camps looking through their baskets full of top level gear/weapons/tools.

Hence why they need gameplay mechanics that aren't about GETTING SOMEWHERE, but are about DOING SOMETHING. Preferably something fun and unique, not disinteresting and repetitive.

Then you'll see people demanding that new stuff be added, and that takes time and effort and another roll of server isnatbility as new systems and features are implemented.

Have you not noticed people have been calling for new stuff to be added since day -500?

I do think lag is a priority, but I also believe that right now the game is stable enough to welcome both item decay and skill decay...

Pick a random guy out of his safe zone and try and hit him. The game is NOT stable enough yet. Sorry.

both absolutly essential features to make Xsyon work.

I couldn't agree more. I'm not sure why you're trying to infer that I said we shouldn't have decay. I simply said that the game should be fun first. Making it an endless craftfest to 'keep us busy' until they implement actual gameplay mechanics is prioritising the wrong way entirely. I'd much rather have a game that's fun to play on EZ mode with undying items whilst they code and balance decay, than have decay implemented when so much of the game still doesn't work properly just so you can justify your chosen crafting profession...


(I could care less about pvp)

So you do care about it then?... Seriously, I don't even know how this grammar fail came about (let alone, became the norm), but there's a serious problem with the apathy of the american people, and I feel it might stem from their constant ability to care less about things...

;)

[Dontaze_Mebro]

im getting totally bored now, i have bins full of stuff, nobody wants/needs including me. There is nothing i need to trade for. Once you skilled upo a craft u realise it was pretty pointless. Nothing left to do just a big pointless grind!
Try being in a 30+ man tribe. Aside from one or two things that are uber rare at the moment we have large stockpiles full of everything we'd probably ever need.

Glad I'm a scout and not a crafter. At least till every tribe is mapped out... Then hopefully the lag will be gone, and pvp will not be a game for e-peen retards to feel important with.

[Andius]

Skill decay is a crap answer for anything. A player should be able to dabble in skills other than their main skill, run around exploring and pvping, or just leave their character sitting afk at a totem while they use the bathroom and not have to worry about skill decay. Skill decay is a punishment for not grinding your main skills 24/7, and it does not add to the fun of the game AT ALL. I almost quit this game on the spot after hearing about it, and would have if I hadn't remembered recipes probably won't decay. Likewise when I was telling a friend about this game and told him there would be skill decay eventually, he lost all interest in it whatsoever.

The answer to grinding too fast is either increasing the time it takes to max a skill, adding a soft level cap, or both. Anyone supporting skill decay is quite frankly supporting a system that will keep this game from ever gaining any real popularity as skill decay is probably the most hated feature any MMO can contain, and rightly so.

Item decay on the other hand is fine. I think the fact your items slowly dwindle to nothing on Darkfall really increased the need for crafters, and gave full looting a real purpose. I would support the exact same system here for weapons, tools, and armor, in that they degrade to nothing as they are used. However I don't think items sitting around in bins should decay, or bins sitting in structures should decay. Structures themselves should decay, but be repairable, and the repairs shoudn't take too much of a players time. At max 30 minutes a week to repair a couple structures and a wall around a single player's homestead.

Added after 9 minutes:


nothing short of a wipe will fix Xsyons economy (and that of course would make people quit).

I would honestly rather deal with multiple more wipes than have the solution include skill decay. At least with wipes when they were finally over, and the last wipe passed, we would have a game I would be interested in playing long term. I'm mainly sticking with this game in the hopes people realize how horrible of a system skill decay is, and it either never gets implemented, or they end up turning it off like I heard they did in Wurm.

[Michse]

Skill decay is fine for me.

Why?

Very simple, it prevents the community from beeing lazy and "uber".

You skilled every craft, you maxed everything? Fine for you.

But if u are lazy now, you aren't the hero of xsyon, cause u loosing stats...thats fine.

There is ever somebody, who is better/have more time/whatsoever.

But if u will spend ure ingame time for training this specific skill, then this skill will not drop. and thats the real meaning of it.

So i can't see a problem in skill decay and definatly is this not a reason to avert xsyons popularity.

[blackzilla]

there is going to be item decay and skill decay etc. they just havent turned it on yet givem time theres more pressing issues like the lag during primetime and some fps issues

OP listen to this guy, don't cry after a week of launch seriously...

[Andius]

Skill decay is fine for me.

Why?

Very simple, it prevents the community from beeing lazy and "uber".

You skilled every craft, you maxed everything? Fine for you.

But if u are lazy now, you aren't the hero of xsyon, cause u loosing stats...thats fine.

There is ever somebody, who is better/have more time/whatsoever.

But if u will spend ure ingame time for training this specific skill, then this skill will not drop. and thats the real meaning of it.

So i can't see a problem in skill decay and definatly is this not a reason to avert xsyons popularity.

Lazy? This is a game. How do you define lazy?

Do you define going out and hunting down PKers or helping guard merchant convoys, or fighting in wars as lazy? Because guess what, if you have skill decay, every minute you are not grinding a skill you'll be losing XP. If you actually try to sit back and enjoy the game, you'll be punished for that.

A game shouldn't be another job. With a soft cap you really have to work your butt off to get the skills in the first place, but you can enjoy the game without fear of losing them if you aren't constantly grinding. Personally for me at least. I like to grind a little, then go out, PVP, socialize, help people, etc. then grind some more. If I'm relearning the same skills rather than slowly progressing from this style of play.... I don't see how that is fun.

More importantly vast numbers of gamers don't see this as fun. Because people play games sandbox games too be lazy. Sure we do a lot of work, but we like to do what we want to do, and do it at our own pace. Sandbox games are all about making a character that can do anything you want and experience a wide variety of gameplay, as opposed to class based games where you create a character that does what the game designers think that class should be able to do, and you have to create many characters to experience wide variety in your gameplay.

I can understand that people don't want players having every stat because it will kill trade, but with a properly done soft cap, this won't be an issue. The vast majority of players will only have time to max a few crafting skills. If anyone can max every single skill it will be less than 1% of the game. Especially with new skills being released. That other 99% will have to trade to get things from skills they don't have be it their single missing skill, or all of their skills except one or two. There still will be a need for trade, especially with full loot PVP and item decay.

[Zarin]

Lack of item decay (aka no items ever leave the system) means that there are more items that the game must constantly track, which doesn't do anything to help performance.

The major issue I see with decay not being turned on is the economy. Right now in-game there is very little supply/demand for anything, and that will only get worse. Once a games economy crashes, it is close to impossible to fix. Right now the only thing keeping the economy stable long term is the fact that most people leveling up their skills atm are DESTROYING everything that they make (because there is nothing else to do with it all).

I realize I'm coming from a crafting perspective (I could care less about pvp), but unless something happens soon, nothing short of a wipe will fix Xsyons economy (and that of course would make people quit). Ultimately that will cause the game to fail. Don't believe me? Take a walk around a bit. How many "Trading Post" tribes/homesteads did you find? Without a working economy, all of those people are gone. At current pace, by the time decay is implemented, everyone will be max skill and have recipes for everything. At that point, item decay is pretty meaningless as everyone can create anything.

Yeah there needs to be several things for economy: Item Decay and Skill Decay, better combat system, worth and value to armor & weapons, and trading tools such as carts, stands, etc to showcase items for sale. A huge problem I see with trading tribes is that they are just a silent tribe in the mountains that has many baskets scattered around - would be nice for them to be able to transport the goods, have stands, or a simple rug that they can sell their items on.

I'm unsure about how the economy will go without an official currency, I feel that it will be difficult for currencies to have value when a tribe is only accepting one currency. It's a cool idea to have different currencies, but I feel that it will only discourage trading when one tribe ignores another tribe's currency. Right now not a lot of items have a clear value, to one person the items important for their skill and craft, but to another it's simply a piece of junk wasting space that can be destroyed.

[xyberviri]

People dont realize that Prelude means the build up to the start......

This isn't full on go time, this is time to work on stuff and build up to the begining of the game, they should have called it Prequel so people would understand. go build your home/town/tribe what not. work on the things you need so your not out destroying the forest around you because you need wood.

the scrap piles will go away, item decay will be turned on and the game will shift into hard mode from there.

were building the future world of the game right now.

I just wish some one would go and change the names of the cities out there with "LOL IM SO COOL TRIBE" but i guess thats the problem with player created worlds.