Macroers

[Dontaze_Mebro]

So I've already heard from one person who will remain nameless that they have 99 axe/87 armed/100 running/100 terraforming/100 fishing... probably more if their combat is so high.

Sounds to me like they are macroing. I know they are in fact because I've caught their fellow tribesmen doing it several times. These are nothing but griefers mind you. Doing all they can to have an edge over the defenseless brand new players that they actively hunt in large groups.

Guess I will have recording video instead of screenshots. I suggest you all do the same, and rid the game of this scum. We really don't need this becoming Darkfall 2.

[Zarin]

Yeah, I see that macroing will be a big problem in the future. Their really needs to be a better system in place to prevent this.

This dude was probably macroing, either that or he was just really good at multitasking

[caaahl]

Coming from Darkfall this was one of the first things i thought after logging in to Xsyon the first time:

"This skill system has macro written all over it"

At least you need food and water here and it might be a bit more challanging to include this in your macroes; but then again, i dont know yet how much it impacts your char if you macro through the night without food or water.

[Armand]

Seeing as combat and weapon skills require being fed by leveling points, I'm tempted to call BS. That or he really is 24/7 macroing; in which case staff should probably start waking up to reality.

[caldrin]

iwas gonna say im sure the only way to lvl combat skills at the moment is by putting points into it when you lvl.. Saying that tho I have lvled probally 5 times so far and im not playing much due to all the issues.. i guess if i had put al lthose points into my axe skills its would be a lot higher than the 35 it is as the moment.

Running is qutie a easy one to lvl maybe he has just explored a lot of the world? Also terrforming lvls realyl fast mine is at 60 just from building a load fo roads..

[Niburu]

bahabahab macroing bahabahba


The problem is not macroing the problem is a broken character system. It seems character wise is NOTHING enabled otherwise he wouldn't be a master axe user and a master terraformer+master fisher.......and other open darkfall skill system without restrictions. i fail to see why a Developer would make the same mistake

bahabahab macroing bahabahba


The problem is not macroing the problem is a broken character system. It seems character wise is NOTHING enabled otherwise he wouldn't be a master axe user and a master terraformer+master fisher.......and other open darkfall skill system without restrictions. i fail to see why a Developer would make the same mistake

[esudar]

if you report him and gm comes to see, he will ban him for 3 days

[Phazaar]

Macroing or not, I call BS. You're talking THOUSANDS of SP to do that to a character; far more than even grinding terraforming 24/7 will do for you in this time. Also, you can't hit 100 in these skills from what I have tried, or anyone I know for that matter. I'm also under the impression (though I ahven't tried) that SP can't be used to push a skill passed 90 anyway.

As has been stated in a really good thread that I'd link if I was awake enough, the problem isn't macroing, it's the game mechanic favouring play time doing repetitive stuff over play skill doing fun stuff. Thus, players want to grind for 'the end game' where they can make an item if they need it and be PvP competitive without having the 8 hours a day some of us have to play. Bans are not the solution for macroing. A better game is.

[NexAnima]

...

As has been stated in a really good thread that I'd link if I was awake enough, the problem isn't macroing, it's the game mechanic favouring play time doing repetitive stuff over play skill doing fun stuff. Thus, players want to grind for 'the end game' where they can make an item if they need it and be PvP competitive without having the 8 hours a day some of us have to play. Bans are not the solution for macroing. A better game is.


Perhaps but since nothing of value would be lost, I don't see why they still shouldn't ban macroers. You cheat and are caught...buh bye...

[cod3r_]

lol.. the fact that he's got those up to that level so fast means that there is not going to be a horrible grind to get those skills up. so calm down.. you'll catch him in a few weeks.. some guy would rather let a computer play the game and risk getting banned for a very short window of advantage.. seems perfect.. you can't even compare that to darkfall..

[coca]

I'm just glad my macro pole doesn't have item decay on it.

erm.. fishing pole..

[wulvgar]

Seeing as combat and weapon skills require being fed by leveling points, I'm tempted to call BS. That or he really is 24/7 macroing; in which case staff should probably start waking up to reality.

we had hoped MO and Darkfail Dev would wake up to reality, they never did. Seems we following the same path again

[VeryWiiTee]

Which gamer isn't under the influence of macros today..?
Even the freaking Theme Park MMO's are subjugated to macros.

[jumpshot]

they have 99 axe/87 armed

sounds like lies to spread the macrophobia further.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

The constant murdering of brand new helpless players are what have pushed his attack skills over the 90's It could be total BS everything else the guy says is complete lies, but I have witnessed them macroing and watched it go on for several rest cycles.
It is true he may have the advantage now but with a softcap instated hopefully catching up won't be a problem.

I still suggest that you report people who are macroing. They aren't helping the lag any.

[kalseth]

sounds like lies to spread the macrophobia further.

Everything else Warmonger said that night was just garbage to rile people up, so I see no reason why that wouldn't be the case about those stats as well.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

Everything else Warmonger said that night was just garbage to rile people up, so I see no reason why that wouldn't be the case about those stats as well.

Because I've seen them macroing EVERYTIME I go to their tribe... It's true he is a troll, but does that mean he doesn't macro? I never said the name but it's obviously everyone knows who we're talking about.

[jokhul]

Macro's are bad for the game, because they spam the server with endless commands. That will inevitably contribute to lag for everyone who is actually trying to actively play.

The so-called "attended" macro's are just as bad. Running a macro while watching TV or browsing the 'net is just as bad as leaving the keyboard, because if you weren't running the macro, you'd most probably not be playing anyway.

The argument that Xsyon "cannot afford to ban players for macroing" because the playerbase is so small, is shortsighted. If those running the macro's go around with wtfpwn skills killing all the "honest" players, people will leave the game of their own accord.

There is no real defense against macroing other than vigorous enforcement by the GM's and guides. The dev's can pull character stats on all players, and those that seem far ahead of the XP-curve can be monitored ingame.

[Sirius]

Macro's are bad for the game, because they spam the server with endless commands. That will inevitably contribute to lag for everyone who is actually trying to actively play.

The so-called "attended" macro's are just as bad. Running a macro while watching TV or browsing the 'net is just as bad as leaving the keyboard, because if you weren't running the macro, you'd most probably not be playing anyway.

The argument that Xsyon "cannot afford to ban players for macroing" because the playerbase is so small, is shortsighted. If those running the macro's go around with wtfpwn skills killing all the "honest" players, people will leave the game of their own accord.

There is no real defense against macroing other than vigorous enforcement by the GM's and guides. The dev's can pull character stats on all players, and those that seem far ahead of the XP-curve can be monitored ingame.

Notice that your post was packed to the brim with unsupported assumptions?

[jokhul]

Notice that your post was packed to the brim with unsupported assumptions?

Such as ? ;)

[Sirius]

Such as ? ;)

1. A macroing player send more commands to the server than a live player.
2. Excessive commands sent to the server will inevitably cause lag that degrades the experience of other players.
3. A player who is denied the privilege of attended macroing will simply go do something else with his time, instead of playing.
4. More people will leave as a result of being PK'd by macro'ers than will leave as a result of banning macro'ers.
5. Macro activity can be reliably identified by the devs, both in theory and in practice.
6. Enforcement of macro policy is the only way to prevent macro's.

House of cards, amigo.

[jokhul]

1. A macroing player send more commands to the server than a live player.
Of course. A player gets tired, bored or needs sleep. Macro's suffer none of these drawbacks.
2. Excessive commands sent to the server will inevitably cause lag that degrades the experience of other players.
Self evident.
3. A player who is denied the privilege of attended macroing will simply go do something else with his time, instead of playing.
Undeniably speculative.
4. More people will leave as a result of being PK'd by macro'ers than will leave as a result of banning macro'ers.
See the history of Darkfall.
5. Macro activity can be reliably identified by the devs, both in theory and in practice.
Inaccurate summary. However, "on the spot" verification is the easiest way to check.
6. Enforcement of macro policy is the only way to prevent macro's.
Only practical way. Adding global monitoring and reporting routines to the code will slow the game down noticeably.


What would you suggest to counter the evil of macroing ? ;)

[Sirius]

1. I thought we were talking about attended macroing..
2. Not self-evident.
3. You seem to agree with me
4. I left DF because of the grind and the fact that it begged for macroing, not because of advantages held by players who macro'd longer or better
5. My point was that you are assuming that devs have ANY ability whatsoever to reliably identify someone who is macroing. How, exactly, does an "on the spot check" somehow magically make the devs able to tell someone macroing from someone who's not?
6. First, without monitoring/reporting code, I imagine enforcement is not going to be very reliable -- it will fail to catch many macro'ers and it will produce many "false positives" where people are actually not macroing. Second, my point was that striving to eliminate the gameplay mechanics that encourage macroing is a better, cheaper way to limit macroing.

[jumpshot]

my point is that those stats are made up and exagerated, I don't think there's nearly as much to gain from macro'ing in this game or that it gives anyone nearly that much advantage.

I hope!

[Niburu]

What would you suggest to counter the evil of macroing ? ;)

a leveling speed and character system that doesn't need macros. A ressource system that forces you to explore and travel/trade to get all the rare ressources and not a 80+ scavange skill that you gain by clicking........that were only examples. Macroing has nearly no influenece in combat because everyone dies with 3 hit to pre order weapons anyways.......seriously the guys who see macroing as a source for every evil are only jealous because they are not able to do it, not macroing is the problem, bad design is...

[coca]

a leveling speed and character system that doesn't need macros. A ressource system that forces you to explore and travel/trade to get all the rare ressources and not a 80+ scavange skill that you gain by clicking........that were only examples. Macroing has nearly no influenece in combat because everyone dies with 3 hit to pre order weapons anyways.......seriously the guys who see macroing as a source for every evil are only jealous because they are not able to do it, not macroing is the problem, bad design is...

although I agree with you.. I also wanted to point out not one game has ever gotten away without having macroers... even ultima and early mmos had a system that macroers could take advantage of.

[mrcalhou]

This kind of leveling/skill/progression system just screams "macro-me." It's sad, but it's just the way it is. People bitch and moan about Eve's real-time skill-progression system, myself included, but you can't say someone macroed their skills in that game and bitch about them having an "unfair advantage."

If macroing is a "problem" in a skill-based system, then their are systems that can be designed to limit the effectiveness of macroing such as putting a heavier emphasis on weapon stats and weapon abilities. Another thing that could help some is limiting the number of active stats/skills a person can use at anyone time. Since everyone has access to a totem, they can equip their skills at their totem, as if it was equipment.


although I agree with you.. I also wanted to point out not one game has ever gotten away without having macroers... even ultima and early mmos had a system that macroers could take advantage of.This type of system is effectively a clone of Ultima's skill progression system. Just like Darkfall and Mortal Online.

[Dirt]

ban the retards please. no cheaters.

[bodangly]

although I agree with you.. I also wanted to point out not one game has ever gotten away without having macroers... even ultima and early mmos had a system that macroers could take advantage of.

So true. I haven't played an MMO that wasn't possible to macro or bot in some way.

I think the larger question that I'd pose to macroers of Xsyon is - why? If there was a need to reach a certain skill level to accomplish things I may understand, but that isn't necessary. As someone else said you die in a few hits regardless, any edge in combat skills is basically negligible. As for crafting skills, I just don't get the rush.

Now if this was an established game and you wanted to be useful to a tribe that is well established I can sort of understand the desire to macro a new character, but now? What is the point, what are these macroers planning to even do when they are "finished" that they cannot do right now?

If I was going to play a UO free shard, then yes for the love of God I'd macro. If this was Darkfall, I'd HAVE to macro. But Xsyon? WHY? What advantage are you even really gaining that justifies this?

[kergan]

The constant murdering of brand new helpless players are what have pushed his attack skills over the 90's It could be total BS everything else the guy says is complete lies, but I have witnessed them macroing and watched it go on for several rest cycles.
It is true he may have the advantage now but with a softcap instated hopefully catching up won't be a problem.

I still suggest that you report people who are macroing. They aren't helping the lag any.

This makes no sense. What does macroing have to do with the 'murdering of brand new helpless players' anyway? How would one macro that? Sounds like legitimate skill gain to me (if it were true). Or is the point "They kill noobs AND they macro!"?

[Sirius]

Kergan, I don't think that particular poster was making a connection between the two, though I could be wrong.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

This makes no sense. What does macroing have to do with the 'murdering of brand new helpless players' anyway? How would one macro that? Sounds like legitimate skill gain to me (if it were true). Or is the point "They kill noobs AND they macro!"?

You take the xp you gain from macroing and put it into combat. That is why macoring is so important to these people. Without animals to fight or killing your own tribesmen over and over it's simply the only way to gain any real skill in combat. I don't believe for one second anyone has 90 axes from ANYTHING legitimate at this point.

[jumpshot]

You take the xp you gain from macroing and put it into combat. That is why macoring is so important to these people. Without animals to fight or killing your own tribesmen over and over it's simply the only way to gain any real skill in combat. I don't believe for one second anyone has 90 axes from ANYTHING legitimate at this point.

I thought you stopped getting XP from Terraforming and Fishing when they get 100.

I don't believe anyone has 90 axes, period.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

I guess the devs should look into some people's skills and go from there.

[Jadzia]

I guess the devs should look into some people's skills and go from there.

Good idea.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

Good idea.

I thought so, and anyone who says otherwise I suggest the devs look at first.

[Weeks]

there will be a soft cap soon

[Phazaar]

You take the xp you gain from macroing and put it into combat. That is why macoring is so important to these people. Without animals to fight or killing your own tribesmen over and over it's simply the only way to gain any real skill in combat. I don't believe for one second anyone has 90 axes from ANYTHING legitimate at this point.

Once again, you were lied to. You cannot use SP to push a skill passed 90, you would also need literally thousands of sp to do what he's claiming he's done. Taking the fastest rate of xp gain possible here, this still isn't realistic. Thus, he's lying, or you are.

Also combat does not improve with usage currently, or if it does it is beyond slow. I'm standing at around 30-50 kills with a weapon I don't have any skill points invested in and I have got no level xp nor a single skill up. More importantly, the only way to gain real skill in combat at the moment is to learn to multitask your w, s, a, d, x and MB2 faster, in more and more unpredictable ways. Combat is non-existant, everyone dies in more or less the same number of hits, and their chance of landing said hits is just as good as your chance of landing them, so stop your worrying. These people aren't ub3rpvpg0dz preying on all the poor n00bies.


I thought so, and anyone who says otherwise I suggest the devs look at first.

ROFLMFAO. I hope this one was a bit of a joke, really. At least then we'd be able to confirm your humanity... If not, thanks for the lols anyway, I needed that :)

[GuideEzekiel]

Macroing is against the ToS (section 5.3).

If you see anyone macroing please report them to the guides.

[Deacon]

there will be a soft cap soon

The problem with this is, by time it gets implemented, the macroers will have already leveled all they could, and not need to worry about an already maxed out skill decaying. They cant really gain exp from it any more, and it can be ignored, in favor of skills they want to maintain, and keep high. So only those legitimately skilling, will be hurt

[Plague]

You get points from combat skill usage. But you need to combat, right?

I have seen many macroes around where I am (823), most are runners against hills and walls, some fish into eternity and I have seen some single spot terraformers (lower, raise, lower, raise, lower, raise ...). I agree with people here who claim that current skill system is macro inviting but I still can blame those who macro for misusing it. I also know of few guys with extremly high combat skills (80+), all thanks to macroing.

The problem is that macroing is hard to prove yet so easy to set up. Instead of baning macro users devs should think how to prevent it by overhauling skilling system. I would not mind getting rid of leveling at all, and have skills be only affetced by direct use. It's too late now for some guys but better late then never. Imho.

[FPrime]

a leveling speed and character system that doesn't need macros. A ressource system that forces you to explore and travel/trade to get all the rare ressources and not a 80+ scavange skill that you gain by clicking........that were only examples. Macroing has nearly no influenece in combat because everyone dies with 3 hit to pre order weapons anyways.......seriously the guys who see macroing as a source for every evil are only jealous because they are not able to do it, not macroing is the problem, bad design is...

Nobody is jealous because they are not able to macro... Anyone can do it.

That's like pissing in a pool and saying that everyone who wishes you wouldn't do it is jealous because they don't know how to pee. :rolleyes:

[ifireallymust]

Nobody is jealous because they are not able to macro... Anyone can do it.

That's like pissing in a pool and saying that everyone who wishes you wouldn't do it is jealous because they don't know how to pee. :rolleyes:

And saying macroing shouldn't be a cause for concern or a ban is like saying swimming in a piss-filled pool is no problem, really. Better to drag the ones doing the pissing out of the pool and stick them in their own special kiddy pool. I'll donate an old Dell for a macro server. It's not like gameplay and graphics will mean anything on that server, anyway, since no one is actually playing! Just let their numbers scroll up every so often and they'll be happy, right?

[Niburu]

Nobody is jealous because they are not able to macro... Anyone can do it.

That's like pissing in a pool and saying that everyone who wishes you wouldn't do it is jealous because they don't know how to pee. :rolleyes:

You will be surprised how few people are able to make a simpel script. In your example everyone learns as a baby how to piss :)

And i can only smile when people say that some players already have 80+ combat skill while in fact EVERYONE which 25 skill can 3 hit other players with pre order weapons........

[caldrin]

The thing is with this game is most skills seem to lvl up really fast anyway so it wont take people long to max out skills from jsut normal play.. I mean the skills like running, terrforming, and others that dont need you to have any resources and stuff and even most crafting skills lvl fast.. so even if people do macro everything up in a couple of days it wont take long for people actually playing the game to catch up.. unlike in Darkfall and similar games where playing normally things take a very long time. I dont like Macroing i have never done it as i liek to play the game for what it is.. in Darkfall that does leave me at a disadvantage but in group combat it dont matter too much.. Anyway i dont think it will have a big impact in this becasue the things that you can macro lvl realyl fast anyway.

[MrsCat]

On the other hand, click fish click fish click is boring and repetitive. I won't macro unattended; simply because I don't want to die and have my stuff taken over and over again. Let them macro in silence; just kill them and take their stuff lol.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

Attended macroing is ok. Who really wants carpal tunnel?

[coca]

Someone asked why people are macroing in Xsyon right now.
I could easily see how someone would rather macro now while there isn't much else to do if you weren't into crafting and you were just waiting on combat to be fixed..

I could easily see someone not wanting to have to waste time in the future to gain levels that could easily be done now. So when combat and other things are implemented they can concentrate on playing and not have to worry about skill and stat levels.


Currently there is no benefit to macroing.. you guys are right... Thats not to say one day there wont be.

I think alot of people learned in Darkfall that you better keep up with the Jones' or you wont ever be able to catch back up.


This game is already on that same slope. Allowing everyone to spec every fighting style and crafting style.. learn every recipe with only the fear of possible skill decay one day. That Is the EXACT same thing darkfall talked about implementing and never did anything about.

The current "everything is do-able by each character" mechanic encourages macroing and ruined the game for alot of people.

[Surly]

Someone asked why people are macroing in Xsyon right now.
I could easily see how someone would rather macro now while there isn't much else to do if you weren't into crafting and you were just waiting on combat to be fixed..

I could easily see someone not wanting to have to waste time in the future to gain levels that could easily be done now. So when combat and other things are implemented they can concentrate on playing and not have to worry about skill and stat levels.


Currently there is no benefit to macroing.. you guys are right... Thats not to say one day there wont be.

I think alot of people learned in Darkfall that you better keep up with the Jones' or you wont ever be able to catch back up.


This game is already on that same slope. Allowing everyone to spec every fighting style and crafting style.. learn every recipe with only the fear of possible skill decay one day. That Is the EXACT same thing darkfall talked about implementing and never did anything about.

The current "everything is do-able by each character" mechanic encourages macroing and ruined the game for alot of people.
Too true. I believe people are deluded if they think macroing can be stopped by anything short of features which make it unimportant.

Take hiding, for instance. As it is right now, the skill gain on it has been nerfed so dramatically (purportedly to combat macroing) that it is only accessible to hardcore macroers. I don't think the developers of this game understand how to stop macroing at all, particularly when their solution to macroing is to do exactly what makes macroing beneficial. A floating skill system with decay, and a minimal "grind" to max out your skills... those things together are all that can stop macroing.

In the mean time, I run a macro every night when I go to bed to grind up something or another. Jumping, terraforming, axe skill, hiding, running, swimming, brickmaking, etcetera... I've got most of those up to 100 now. Do I have an "unfair" advantage? Not so long as the developers of Xsyon make good on their promise. I could have just completely wasted my time. On the other hand, if they don't get rid of the grind and implement skill decay then I've got a permanent leg up on everyone else. Especially if they keep doing what they did to hiding, just by making the grind "harder" (e.g. more macro-friendly).

[Commissar123]

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li45dswWcT1qdulb5o1_400.gif

[jokhul]

<snip>
In the mean time, I run a macro every night when I go to bed to grind up something or another.
<snip>

I hope the GM's don't notice that remark... :D

If the skill system makes it possible for a player to have 100 (or more) in multiple skills, then people will try their utmost to achieve that, just because they can.

And if it's do-able with macro's, it's no hassle for the player, so why not max out every possible skill while sleeping or watching TV ? Besides, being a Master Crafter in all crafting disciplines is very handy, it makes the character entirely self-sufficient.

Of course, skills that your character uses regularly will increase by themselves over time, but everyone wants "Max levels NAO!!1!", because the common perception is that "you can only start playing properly when you've reached the level cap".

We should just do away with skill increases entirely. Pick your character stats/skills at creation and that's it. That way, we'll only have the harvesting macro's to contend with...

[Commissar123]

Why because this is a serious matter of serious urgency that needs urgent attention immediately?

The entire AFG macro, why don't you come find us and report us all, actually I think I just found you bunch of gibbering simpletons a new task so I no longer need to hear you all drone on about your mundane existance. Yes the server is lagging, thanks for being simpleton number 201 to report this fact.

Here is a red armband. I want you to wear this armband and report every macroer you can find. There's no reward other than the feeling you're important and actually making a difference.

Good luck.

[jokhul]

Why because this is a serious matter of serious urgency that needs urgent attention immediately?

The entire AFG macro, why don't you come find us and report us all, actually I think I just found you bunch of gibbering simpletons a new task so I no longer need to hear you all drone on about your mundane existance. Yes the server is lagging, thanks for being simpleton number 201 to report this fact.

Here is a red armband. I want you to wear this armband and report every macroer you can find. There's no reward other than the feeling you're important and actually making a difference.

Good luck.

You're right, of course :D

Macro's are totally unimportant and have no effect on the game at all. Silly of the dev's to even bother listing macro use as a violation of the ToS. They probably only put that in there because they saw other games have it too...

Nothing to see here, move along...

[Andar]

You're right, of course :D

Macro's are totally unimportant and have no effect on the game at all. Silly of the dev's to even bother listing macro use as a violation of the ToS. They probably only put that in there because they saw other games have it too...

Nothing to see here, move along...

Move along

Move along

Move along

No meaningful penalty will be assessed

So, the rhetorical question becomes:

How high is the bleed rate of what are now former subscribers?

Not high yet; the game just isn't old enough

But it soon will be

[Phazaar]

You're right, of course :D

Macro's are totally unimportant and have no effect on the game at all. Silly of the dev's to even bother listing macro use as a violation of the ToS. They probably only put that in there because they saw other games have it too...

Nothing to see here, move along...

:D Read the ToS some time. Lol @ trying to sound intelligent using bits of misheard and miscommunicated information...

The PROBLEM is that macros CAN have an effect on the game. The character system literally begs for it, because everything is doable and everything is repetitive (AND BORING). Macroing in itself is not a problem in any sense; a recruitment macro or dance macro is not really going to 'break the game.' Making the emphasis on a grind, and making that grind easy to macro is what is going to 'break the game.'

[Mystais]

:D Read the ToS some time. Lol @ trying to sound intelligent using bits of misheard and miscommunicated information...

The PROBLEM is that macros CAN have an effect on the game. The character system literally begs for it, because everything is doable and everything is repetitive (AND BORING). Macroing in itself is not a problem in any sense; a recruitment macro or dance macro is not really going to 'break the game.' Making the emphasis on a grind, and making that grind easy to macro is what is going to 'break the game.'

I am pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

[Phazaar]

I am pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

To me, that sarcasm seems to suggest he thinks macroing is gamebreaking, and that it WASN'T stupid of the devs to put it in the ToS... In which case, I stick by my original ridicule. If it's not sarcastic and he means it, good man :)

[Dirt]

buncha retarded cheaters everywhere i go

[Redus]

They probably only put that in there because they saw other games have it too...

welll....funny that you mention this...

I would say it might be possible!

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/85-CCP-is-not-liable-to-us

Anyhow I personally think simple Macro's should be allowed. Those that do not make you play the game faster, but just take away mundane task of pressing the same sequence of buttons over and over again. Clearly you have to be at the PC while running such a macro. However at the end, it is the Dev's game and it his call and clearly in the TOS it states you can not use it.

[jumpshot]

Jumping, terraforming, axe skill, hiding, running, swimming, brickmaking, etcetera... I've got most of those up to 100 now. Do I have an "unfair" advantage?

Maybe a head start, everyone will get these raised before too long.

More importantly though, how do you raise axe skill?

[Dontaze_Mebro]

Maybe a head start, everyone will get these raised before too long.

More importantly though, how do you raise axe skill?

By dumping all your macro xp into it.

[jumpshot]

By dumping all your macro xp into it.

I was aware of that option, and I'm pretty sure you'd never get it near 100 like that. Not until they add a few dozen more skills to get XP from.

He said he was macro'ing the skill itself.

[Dirt]

and if you macro your dumping you also gain a significant advantage.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

I was aware of that option, and I'm pretty sure you'd never get it near 100 like that. Not until they add a few dozen more skills to get XP from.

He said he was macro'ing the skill itself.
Could have an alt that runs in front of him over and over to be murdered I guess.

[redrazor]

Im just gonna start an MMO. You gguys inspired me to it.

Its not gonna have any graphics. You pay a fee, I throw in some bonus time and a special "headstart" to the race to get to top level and win the game. You actually dont win anything when you get to top level tough, and the game doesnt finish either, you just dont level anymore.

All you have to do is login in, create your character picking a few skills and then hit a "Start Leveling button". Your skills will start raising over time wether you are there or not. You can login back to check on those from time to time but you're not required to do so.

Now, before you dismiss it, here's the catch. Im going to have a chat system implemented where you can login and brag about your stats and skills while you're online. You can also claim to be the top character with the highest skill in "X" (choose any skill you'd like to see here). You can also claim to be a 10 year Veteran PKer and PvP expert, or Master Crafter, altough you wont get any title if you have maxed out anything skillwise related to that (remember, you still dont get anything from maxing out any skill).

I'll also thrw in a Forum. You can go to that forum and brag about beeing bad ass and your character owning every other character, or about having an advantage or 80+ combat. Hell, I'll even throw in a no cap skill limit, so you can just level up forever...and pay me forever.

By my experience with MMO's and most of the stuff I've read on these forums and in-game I think it will be a huge sucess. It'll even have a board with top players.

I'll of course allow any type of macros. You can temper with my code or script new routines on top of it, so instead of say, gain 1 skill point every minute, you can actually get a skill point every 0.00000000000000000122334754 seconds. Then you'll be a Great person. Well known over the net. Your miserable life wont look so miserable either.

What do you say? Who's up for a 30$ pre-order? Grinders, attended macroars, unettended, self atended and mommy-atended macroars too.

Come to Grind Online.

P.S. Some people are already logged in raising their skills...so you're all missing the race...

[Shaggy]

Without reading through all the idiotic bantering, I'm just going to throw out my simple suggestion for a temporary macroing fix, because we all know macroing is going to break this game:

Implement a simple captcha style popup that comes up every 10, 15, 20, or X minutes that if you fail a certain number of times (maybe 3-5 times) you're booted off the game. I wouldn't make it some big window or some long exhaustive captcha.. maybe 5-7 characters. Since captchas are sometimes hard to decipher, give the ability to refresh the image.

[Archangel]

Im just gonna start an MMO. You gguys inspired me to it.

Its not gonna have any graphics. You pay a fee, I throw in some bonus time and a special "headstart" to the race to get to top level and win the game. You actually dont win anything when you get to top level tough, and the game doesnt finish either, you just dont level anymore.

All you have to do is login in, create your character picking a few skills and then hit a "Start Leveling button". Your skills will start raising over time wether you are there or not. You can login back to check on those from time to time but you're not required to do so.

Now, before you dismiss it, here's the catch. Im going to have a chat system implemented where you can login and brag about your stats and skills while you're online. You can also claim to be the top character with the highest skill in "X" (choose any skill you'd like to see here). You can also claim to be a 10 year Veteran PKer and PvP expert, or Master Crafter, altough you wont get any title if you have maxed out anything skillwise related to that (remember, you still dont get anything from maxing out any skill).

I'll also thrw in a Forum. You can go to that forum and brag about beeing bad ass and your character owning every other character, or about having an advantage or 80+ combat. Hell, I'll even throw in a no cap skill limit, so you can just level up forever...and pay me forever.

By my experience with MMO's and most of the stuff I've read on these forums and in-game I think it will be a huge sucess. It'll even have a board with top players.

I'll of course allow any type of macros. You can temper with my code or script new routines on top of it, so instead of say, gain 1 skill point every minute, you can actually get a skill point every 0.00000000000000000122334754 seconds. Then you'll be a Great person. Well known over the net. Your miserable life wont look so miserable either.

What do you say? Who's up for a 30$ pre-order? Grinders, attended macroars, unettended, self atended and mommy-atended macroars too.

Come to Grind Online.

P.S. Some people are already logged in raising their skills...so you're all missing the race...

I see you've played Korean MMOs too eh?

[dxwarlock]

Im just gonna start an MMO. You gguys inspired me to it.

Its not gonna have any graphics. You pay a fee, I throw in some bonus time and a special "headstart" to the race to get to top level and win the game. You actually dont win anything when you get to top level tough, and the game doesnt finish either, you just dont level anymore.

All you have to do is login in, create your character picking a few skills and then hit a "Start Leveling button". Your skills will start raising over time wether you are there or not. You can login back to check on those from time to time but you're not required to do so.

Now, before you dismiss it, here's the catch. Im going to have a chat system implemented where you can login and brag about your stats and skills while you're online. You can also claim to be the top character with the highest skill in "X" (choose any skill you'd like to see here). You can also claim to be a 10 year Veteran PKer and PvP expert, or Master Crafter, altough you wont get any title if you have maxed out anything skillwise related to that (remember, you still dont get anything from maxing out any skill).

I'll also thrw in a Forum. You can go to that forum and brag about beeing bad ass and your character owning every other character, or about having an advantage or 80+ combat. Hell, I'll even throw in a no cap skill limit, so you can just level up forever...and pay me forever.

By my experience with MMO's and most of the stuff I've read on these forums and in-game I think it will be a huge sucess. It'll even have a board with top players.

I'll of course allow any type of macros. You can temper with my code or script new routines on top of it, so instead of say, gain 1 skill point every minute, you can actually get a skill point every 0.00000000000000000122334754 seconds. Then you'll be a Great person. Well known over the net. Your miserable life wont look so miserable either.

What do you say? Who's up for a 30$ pre-order? Grinders, attended macroars, unettended, self atended and mommy-atended macroars too.

Come to Grind Online.

P.S. Some people are already logged in raising their skills...so you're all missing the race...

so your making EvE online?

[MastaKane]

People will macro, there is nothing a small company like this can do about it. Either accept it or stop playing independent developer's sandbox styled games. You can ban a player but they will probably just make a new account and do it all over again.

It's sad little people who don't like even playing fields. The fact that commissar said that all of AFG macros is just pathetic. I wish people didn't have to cheat on video games but apparently that's how they get their kicks. They ruin it for everyone else, but there is nothing we can do about it except report them and delay their efforts and waste their money as they purchase the game all over again.

This being said, so far I don't see that big of an advantage to macroing in Xsyon. You have a set stat amount and pre order weps kill people in 3 hits anyway in pvp. Sure it gives them a slight advantage, but its not game breaking.

[Redus]

People will macro, there is nothing a small company like this can do about it. Either accept it or stop playing independent developer's sandbox styled games. You can ban a player but they will probably just make a new account and do it all over again.

It's sad little people who don't like even playing fields. The fact that commissar said that all of AFG macros is just pathetic. I wish people didn't have to cheat on video games but apparently that's how they get their kicks. They ruin it for everyone else, but there is nothing we can do about it except report them and delay their efforts and waste their money as they purchase the game all over again.

This being said, so far I don't see that big of an advantage to macroing in Xsyon. You have a set stat amount and pre order weps kill people in 3 hits anyway in pvp. Sure it gives them a slight advantage, but its not game breaking.

Really I never have a macro person ruin my game....ever! In fact they ruin there game. So your now the best at everything....and then what?

[jumpshot]

This being said, so far I don't see that big of an advantage to macroing in Xsyon. You have a set stat amount and pre order weps kill people in 3 hits anyway in pvp. Sure it gives them a slight advantage, but its not game breaking.

THIS THIS

Honestly I don't understand how these threads get so long. I assume people are just still heartbroke from Darkfall but c'mon man you can't just keep bringin up your last girls shortcomings to your new one...

[redrazor]

dxwarlock:

You either have no idea what EvE is, or you felt heart broken when your macro didnt run there and left.

Either way, wanna pre-order grind Online?

[ifireallymust]

If you macro, I hope you get banned. If you don't get banned, I at least hope you never, ever get any pvp anywhere you go. You don't deserve it. You deserve to have nothing to do with your combat skills, and I for one will be sure to give you nothing to do with those skills. If I know you macro, or your tribe macros, I won't fight you, and I'll stay far away from you when you're out looking for a fight. Enjoy your boredom, cheaters.

[HyBrasil]

Don't worry about it. People usually get what is coming to them in some way, some day. Karma seldom, if ever, fails.

[Lily]

All though human history we've been constantly finding new ways to avoid doing boring laborious jobs and automating them to give us more time to do the things we enjoy.

If you give benefits for having a higher skill, people will naturally want to raise it. Especially since there's limited other things to do right now. It's only to be expected that they'll use technology to run into a wall, while they go to bed and do something far more enjoyable.

[FPrime]

Im just gonna start an MMO. You gguys inspired me to it.

Its not gonna have any graphics. You pay a fee, I throw in some bonus time and a special "headstart" to the race to get to top level and win the game. You actually dont win anything when you get to top level tough, and the game doesnt finish either, you just dont level anymore.

All you have to do is login in, create your character picking a few skills and then hit a "Start Leveling button". Your skills will start raising over time wether you are there or not. You can login back to check on those from time to time but you're not required to do so.

Now, before you dismiss it, here's the catch. Im going to have a chat system implemented where you can login and brag about your stats and skills while you're online. You can also claim to be the top character with the highest skill in "X" (choose any skill you'd like to see here). You can also claim to be a 10 year Veteran PKer and PvP expert, or Master Crafter, altough you wont get any title if you have maxed out anything skillwise related to that (remember, you still dont get anything from maxing out any skill).

I'll also thrw in a Forum. You can go to that forum and brag about beeing bad ass and your character owning every other character, or about having an advantage or 80+ combat. Hell, I'll even throw in a no cap skill limit, so you can just level up forever...and pay me forever.

By my experience with MMO's and most of the stuff I've read on these forums and in-game I think it will be a huge sucess. It'll even have a board with top players.

I'll of course allow any type of macros. You can temper with my code or script new routines on top of it, so instead of say, gain 1 skill point every minute, you can actually get a skill point every 0.00000000000000000122334754 seconds. Then you'll be a Great person. Well known over the net. Your miserable life wont look so miserable either.

What do you say? Who's up for a 30$ pre-order? Grinders, attended macroars, unettended, self atended and mommy-atended macroars too.

Come to Grind Online.

P.S. Some people are already logged in raising their skills...so you're all missing the race...

It's been done. Progress Quest (http://progressquest.com/)

[robofriven]

It's been done. Progress Quest (http://progressquest.com/)

Wow man, you beat me to it. Though I have to admit I can't run Linux without having Progress Quest running in the background. I think I'm a level 20 Land Squid Robot Monk. :P

[Risk]

Nobody is jealous because they are not able to macro... Anyone can do it.

That's like pissing in a pool and saying that everyone who wishes you wouldn't do it is jealous because they don't know how to pee. :rolleyes:

HAHAHA That is fuckin hilarious...but aye..anyone can do it till they get cought...got some great pics of a guide pelvic thrusting into a Macro stuck on a rock before sending them to the green....

If ya see em and they dont respond...casually post in /h Macro and yer loc...the devs will watch...think the pelvic thust is the last test heh...and they will send them to the green...they also log the account too...

[MrDDT]

Macroing is against the ToS (section 5.3).

If you see anyone macroing please report them to the guides.

Can you do attended macroing? or what?

Ive heard you could do it as long as you were able to reply to a Guide or a dev.

[temur]

@MrDDT i know that name ...and that avatar ...damn i know you from somewehre

[dxwarlock]

Can you do attended macroing? or what?

Ive heard you could do it as long as you were able to reply to a Guide or a dev.

last I heard, it seems you can unfortunately.
so macro your butt off, just make sure to be close enough doing other activities to see the light green text.

Just waiting to hear an official word on it other than that one post..if they are going to allow it, might as well take full advantage of it.

got my VM setup with xyson installed in preperation if it gets a green light i guess. we need 4000 bricks for walls? no worries, 8 hours of working for me, with VM on second screen mouse macroing in its own little ESXI window..we will have more than enough bricks, and a maxed toolmaker/tailor/mason. all without me touching a thing:P

edit: not that I condone macroing in games thats its not allowed. not my thing. but if they say macroing is a perfectly legit gameplay mechanic and encourage it to stop "repetitive tasks" might as well use it.

[MrDDT]

last I heard, it seems you can unfortunately.
so macro your butt off, just make sure to be close enough doing other activities to see the light green text.

Just waiting to hear an official word on it other than that one post..if they are going to allow it, might as well take full advantage of it.

got my VM setup with xyson installed in preperation if it gets a green light i guess. we need 4000 bricks for walls? no worries, 8 hours of working for me, with VM on second screen mouse macroing in its own little ESXI window..we will have more than enough bricks, and a maxed toolmaker/tailor/mason. all without me touching a thing:P

edit: not that I condone macroing in games thats its not allowed. not my thing. but if they say macroing is a perfectly legit gameplay mechanic and encourage it to stop "repetitive tasks" might as well use it.


Same here, Ive known how to macro since day 2 in UO. Do I macro unattended? No. Ive used macros in games that have allowed it. Even Darkfall online (not for skill gains) where I would macro skills and weapons to be able to change and attack without having to wait for user delay. (Nothing that is breaking any rules FYI). It would make it easier to play due to a poor gui system.

Im wondering if something like that will be done here. I can see where some of this could be done up using macroing allowing me to stay sane.

If macroing is not on the table, I believe there will be major issues with boredom (even if macroing is allow attended, I can see this being a major issue). Like you said making bricks is currently so boring, I cant see any sane person doing it. But thats for another topic.

I want a guide or a dev, or someone with a special name colour to tell me I can do it while attending, or no all macroing programs (even the keyboards) are not allowed. One way or the other. I dont want to see a text saying "All third party programs are breaking TOS" because thats 100% crap. If thats the cause, I cant use IE, Firefox, Voice chat, or even IRC.

[China]

I want a guide or a dev, or someone with a special name colour to tell me I can do it while attending, or no all macroing programs (even the keyboards) are not allowed. One way or the other. I dont want to see a text saying "All third party programs are breaking TOS" because thats 100% crap. If thats the cause, I cant use IE, Firefox, Voice chat, or even IRC.

Strawmen arguments are the weakest form of debate, used by small minded people inorder to prop up one's biased point of view; as in your effort to compare 'IE, Firefox, Voice chat, or even IRC.' with a macro program that does tasks for you ingame. <-----------------Stupid, just plain ol' stupid. There is really no other way to say it.

In an earlier post you even posted what the forum Mod's have already said (see quote below), yet you have the nerve to come on and ask for them to say it again. Well got news for you DDT, they actually ban macroers in this game, unlike DF.

Btw, it doesn't matter if you think it is 100% crap - in fact it doesn't really matter what you think. It's in the TOS and if you decide to play and macro, more than likely you will suffer the consequences.

[dxwarlock]

Strawmen arguments are the weakest form of debate, used by small minded people inorder to prop up one's biased point of view

actually as fallible as it is as an augmentative type, its used by scientist, physicists, and even you at the end of your thread. its not merely a "small minded" tactic, many people fall into its use without knowing..calling it a small minded tactic is in and of itself a strawman, insulting the debator to discredit him by his own argument, not the subject of said argument.

"in fact it doesn't really matter what you think. It's in the TOS and if you decide to play and macro, more than likely you will suffer the consequences."

changing the topic to state the TOS when the TOS wasnt called into the debate at hand, it was about what the counteractive post deemed allowable (which was the debate, the counter confusing statements by the devs.)

going to one extreme example of "macroers get banned, so you in your attempt to macro has invalidated your argument for the debating of it" leading him into defending his views of macroing, not the current position of it, you yourself used is strawman in nature :)

[MrDDT]

Strawmen arguments are the weakest form of debate, used by small minded people inorder to prop up one's biased point of view; as in your effort to compare 'IE, Firefox, Voice chat, or even IRC.' with a macro program that does tasks for you ingame. <-----------------Stupid, just plain ol' stupid. There is really no other way to say it.

In an earlier post you even posted what the forum Mod's have already said (see quote below), yet you have the nerve to come on and ask for them to say it again. Well got news for you DDT, they actually ban macroers in this game, unlike DF.

Btw, it doesn't matter if you think it is 100% crap - in fact it doesn't really matter what you think. It's in the TOS and if you decide to play and macro, more than likely you will suffer the consequences.

Its not a strawmen's argument.
I mean what about fraps?
What about maps outside the game?

DF bans macros also just FYI. I have no idea why you think they dont. There is a far cry from unattended macroing to making a macro program that works while you are using it. Anyways thats not the debate here. My point is simple this yes or no. Is attended macroing allowed in this game?

Its not for you to give your opinion, nor me. Im asking waiting for someone to reply that has some weight to it, not a player, but a guide, or a dev, or a mod.

To me saying that all 3rd party programs that give an unfair advantage is so loose it can be used for all those things I just talked about. Which is why I want it CLEAR whether or not you can or cant use macros attended.

Like DF they have the same statement but they ALLOW macroing while attended. They DO ban people for unattended macroing. Same verbiage.

Nevermind I found it.

(Thanks Tryste from IRC)

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6252-So-it-seems-my-thread-about-a-hacker-was-deleted..?p=74817&viewfull=1#post74817

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e107/MrDDT/AtttenedMacroing.png

[China]

actually as fallible as it is as an augmentative type, its used by scientist, physicists, and even you at the end of your thread. its not merely a "small minded" tactic, many people fall into its use without knowing..calling it a small minded tactic is in and of itself a strawman, insulting the debator to discredit him by his own argument, not the subject of said argument.

"in fact it doesn't really matter what you think. It's in the TOS and if you decide to play and macro, more than likely you will suffer the consequences."

changing the topic to state the TOS when the TOS wasnt called into the debate at hand, it was about what the counteractive post deemed allowable (which was the debate, the counter confusing statements by the devs.)

going to one extreme example of "macroers get banned, so you in your attempt to macro has invalidated your argument for the debating of it" leading him into defending his views of macroing, not the current position of it, you yourself used is strawman in nature :)

You obviously need to look up the definition of 'strawman argument'. There is not one in my reply to DDT.

You also perhaps neglected to read a prior post in this thread by DDT - he is the one who brought up the TOS in post #79, as well he should since he does not equate "attended macroing" with "unattended macroing". :rolleyes:

As far as your last paragraph, after having read it 3 times, I'm inclined to say, "what in the H are you talking about? It makes no sense. I simply stated that macroers get banned in Xsyon.

[GuideRaguel]

Greetings Community,

I would like to shed a little light on this current situation for the community members that 'demand' it.

The following is a direct copy from the Notorious Games / Xsyon Terms of Service.


TOS:
You will not display inappropriate conduct while you have access to the game and its content. Such conduct includes but is not limited to:

Section 5 - Rules of conduct
Subsection 3

Use of third party software that would give you or anyone else an advantage of any form.

I would also like to quote....

Failure to follow these rules will result in temporary or permanent ban from Xsyon. A ban will result in a Termination of Service as outlined below. enforcement of these rules is at the discretion of Notorious Games and it's representatives.

So to summarise, If you use a 3rd party program to 'Macro' Attended or Unattended it is against our terms of service.

And the punishment for breaking this Terms of Service is outlined as I stated above.

We investigate all Terms of Service Violations and the appropriate action is taken.


I hope this has answered some of your questions.

Thank you.

[MrDDT]

Best way to report these cheaters?
Also what type of proof should we be looking for? I know there are people out there doing this now.

[dxwarlock]

You obviously need to look up the definition of 'strawman argument'. There is not one in my reply to DDT.

You also perhaps neglected to read a prior post in this thread by DDT - he is the one who brought up the TOS in post #79, as well he should since he does not equate "attended macroing" with "unattended macroing". :rolleyes:

As far as your last paragraph, after having read it 3 times, I'm inclined to say, "what in the H are you talking about? It makes no sense. I simply stated that macroers get banned in Xsyon.

and I'm simply stating that that in itself is a strawman 'absolute'. as its the flaw of strawman of "debating in absolutes without fact or references" to drive home a point.

strawman doesn't only cover calling upon vaguely connected items to change the debate in your favor by linking a negative to the opponents argument when the negative wasn't called into question. its also calling into absolutes to make the defender deviate from his debate to argue your claim on "always/never/certainly" on a negative you attach to his side of the argument.

its been shown time and time again, that macro'ers dont 'always' get banned. its like claiming drunk drivers get caught. for every case that it shows one that gets caught there is witness of 1 that doesnt..so the "macro'ers get banned" absolute is a red herring to make your side more solid with no foundation behind it. unless you have inside information on the total macro'ers and the number banned..your absolute if guesswork offered as a fact.

Im glad you managed to find a wiki page or whatever it was you found what a strawman fallacy was. but I can assure you, that your statement of "your argument is invalid because macroer=ban, therefore its impossible to be allowed by said rules" is strawman in the textbook definition sense.

[GuideRaguel]

Best way to report these cheaters?
Also what type of proof should we be looking for? I know there are people out there doing this now.

Hello,

The best way to report violations of the Terms of Service is either to Support@notorious-games.com or abuse@notorious-games.com

The best way a player can evidence violations is to Screen Shot and/or capture videos.
However all reports are investigated and we conduct our own means to determine if a player is violating the Terms of Service.
The means in which we do this, I can not disclose for obvious reasons.

Thank you.

[oneyedwang]

Greetings Community,

I would like to shed a little light on this current situation for the community members that 'demand' it.

The following is a direct copy from the Notorious Games / Xsyon Terms of Service.


TOS:
You will not display inappropriate conduct while you have access to the game and its content. Such conduct includes but is not limited to:

Section 5 - Rules of conduct
Subsection 3

Use of third party software that would give you or anyone else an advantage of any form.

I would also like to quote....

Failure to follow these rules will result in temporary or permanent ban from Xsyon. A ban will result in a Termination of Service as outlined below. enforcement of these rules is at the discretion of Notorious Games and it's representatives.

So to summarise, If you use a 3rd party program to 'Macro' Attended or Unattended it is against our terms of service.

And the punishment for breaking this Terms of Service is outlined as I stated above.

We investigate all Terms of Service Violations and the appropriate action is taken.


I hope this has answered some of your questions.

Thank you.

See I find this quote funny seeing as how virtus said this


Obviously it is hard to tell/catch someone macroing but we do have ways.

Attended macroing is allowed since that person is taking the time to stay at the computer and "saving yourself some pain and probably carpal tunnel"

if it appears you were unattended macroing action will be taken against you.

I cannot go into detail about how we check for macroers as people could make a work around for it.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6252-So-it-seems-my-thread-about-a-hacker-was-deleted../page4

So who are we to believe ? you because you say so?
But virtus said so? If virtus is in charge of the forums and you of the guides. I would be more likely to believe the guy posting policy on the forums that he's in charge of.
What we need is confirmation from jordi since the two of them disagree on the matter.

[MrDDT]

Hello,

The best way to report violations of the Terms of Service is either to Support@notorious-games.com or abuse@notorious-games.com

The best way a player can evidence violations is to Screen Shot and/or capture videos.
However all reports are investigated and we conduct our own means to determine if a player is violating the Terms of Service.
The means in which we do this, I can not disclose for obvious reasons.

Thank you.

Thanks for the quick reply. I will do this.

oneyedwang,
Dont get upset. Its the way it is man. The rules are rules. Virtus was old news. I would follow the person that posted it for sure. If you look at Virtus its more like he is just talking. This was more of a planned post. Also GuideRaguel is in charge of the people that will be enforcing this rule.

[oneyedwang]

Thanks for the quick reply. I will do this.

oneyedwang,
Dont get upset. Its the way it is man. The rules are rules. Virtus was old news. I would follow the person that posted it for sure. If you look at Virtus its more like he is just talking. This was more of a planned post. Also GuideRaguel is in charge of the people that will be enforcing this rule.

lol 50k key clicks for one skill point with caps going up soon? I wan't confirmation from a higher source for two reasons. First raguel made the post at the request of another guide was getting laughed at in irc on the matter and secondly the two clearly have conflicting opinions on the matter. I have np banning UNattended macro'ers and botters but there is no advantage from this.

Rag is an unpaid child... he has cleaned up the guides to some degree but still makes snaps decisions I'm more inclined to beleive this was a matter that he decided to defend a guide rather than something jordi has signed off on. We'll wait and see

[MrDDT]

lol 50k key clicks for one skill point with caps going up soon? I wan't confirmation from a higher source for two reasons. First raguel made the post at the request of another guide was getting laughed at in irc on the matter and secondly the two clearly have conflicting opinons on the matter. I have np banning attended macro'ers and botters but there is no advantage from this.

Rag is an unpaid child... he has cleaned up the guides to some degree but still makes snaps decisions I'm more inclined to beleive this was a matter that he decided to defend a guide rather than something jordi has signed off on. We'll wait and see

Sorry my bad Im a noob. I had no idea about this background.

I guess we will see what we will see.
I dont macro either way, but I would hate to see people macroing attending, allowed to do it while others think you cant so they dont.

[oneyedwang]

Sorry my bad Im a noob. I had no idea about this background.

I guess we will see what we will see.
I dont macro either way, but I would hate to see people macroing attending, allowed to do it while others think you cant so they dont.

I agree with this completely!

there needs to be a concise response from a paid employee not a guide. Guides should enforce policy or pass along complaints to people who can.

Guides are unpaid players acting on behalf of notorious to ease the transition to more in house paid cs gm's. Why they are creating policy or announcing it that contradicts a paid employee of notorious is beyond me.

[MrDDT]

I agree with this completely!

there needs to be a concise response from a paid employee not a guide. Guides should enforce policy or pass along complaints to people who can.

Guides are unpaid players acting on behalf of notorious to ease the transition to more in house paid cs gm's. Why they are creating policy or announcing it that contradicts a paid employee of notorious is beyond me.

Im not disagreeing with you, I would like to see what happens from this. Clearly this is a pretty important post on this, Im sure we will be hearing something from others as time goes on.

[GuideRaguel]

I agree with this completely!

there needs to be a concise response from a paid employee not a guide. Guides should enforce policy or pass along complaints to people who can.

Guides are unpaid players acting on behalf of notorious to ease the transition to more in house paid cs gm's. Why they are creating policy or announcing it that contradicts a paid employee of notorious is beyond me.

Greetings,

You would like a response from a paid member of staff?

Well you have one... Although I do have a 'Guide' Title, my job role is the Community Manager for Xsyon and Notorious Games, and for the time being I am also the Head Guide.

The fact remains, that the Quoted Terms Of Service that every single player agreed to on entering the game clearly states that, any use of 3rd party software to give an advantage over other players is in direct violation of the agreed Terms of Service.

As for what you stated here...


Why they are creating policy or announcing it that contradicts a paid employee of notorious is beyond me.

This is not a random creation, this has been in the Terms of Service since Players were aloud access to the game.

Follow the Terms of Service, and if you do not go against it then you are abiding by the rules, and have nothing to worry about.

For those who do go against the Terms of Service then the consequences have also been stated in the Terms of Service.

Thank you.

[MrDDT]

Greetings,

You would like a response from a paid member of staff?

Well you have one... Although I do have a 'Guide' Title, my job role is the Community Manager for Xsyon and Notorious Games, and for the time being I am also the Head Guide.

The fact remains, that the Quoted Terms Of Service that every single player agreed to on entering the game clearly states that, any use of 3rd party software to give an advantage over other players is in direct violation of the agreed Terms of Service.

As for what you stated here...



This is not a random creation, this has been in the Terms of Service since Players were aloud access to the game.

Follow the Terms of Service, and if you do not go against it then you are abiding by the rules, and have nothing to worry about.

For those who do go against the Terms of Service then the consequences have also been stated in the Terms of Service.

Thank you.

Again thank you for the quick replies and keeping this thread open for comments. I think its important for people to understand that this is an issue in game and the rumors have been around (likely due to that post I linked) that macroing attended was ok. Clearly that is not the case anymore.

Im very glad to see staff respond to this, I will be even more happy once I see it starting to take effect in game.

We have asked before what safeguards were in place to prevent this type of 3rd party programs. (I surely hope you dont mean ALL 3rd party programs because, as I said before what about IRC? or voice comms etc)
I hope there is some type of anti macro detection software in place (which currently I dont think there is), to prevent people from doing this.

[oneyedwang]

Greetings,

You would like a response from a paid member of staff?

Well you have one... Although I do have a 'Guide' Title, my job role is the Community Manager for Xsyon and Notorious Games, and for the time being I am also the Head Guide.

The fact remains, that the Quoted Terms Of Service that every single player agreed to on entering the game clearly states that, any use of 3rd party software to give an advantage over other players is in direct violation of the agreed Terms of Service.

As for what you stated here...



This is not a random creation, this has been in the Terms of Service since Players were aloud access to the game.

Follow the Terms of Service, and if you do not go against it then you are abiding by the rules, and have nothing to worry about.

For those who do go against the Terms of Service then the consequences have also been stated in the Terms of Service.

Thank you.

So if you both work for the same company why are we getting two different answers?

Secondly, what exactly is the unfair advantage? By attending a macro I reserve the right to have functioning hands and wrists ten years for now?

Sacrifice your body for the game man!

LOL i don't think a lot of people realize what just 99-100 requires in this game and this policy seems childish and short sighted.

Again due to the discrepancy I would still like confirmation from jordi


I would also like to point out that from what you listed above a voip is against the tos? it certainly gives us an unfair advantage over typers? Are we not allowed to talk over vent or ts?

Our concern from our tribe is that we knew of rule 3 and assumed it was meant for botters,sniffers and hacks. From you interpretation I could be banned for using vent or just having a g15 nvm using it.

[MrDDT]

So if you both work for the same company why are we getting two different answers?

Secondly, what exactly is the unfair advantage? By attending a macro I reserve the right to have functioning hands and wrists ten years for now?

Sacrifice your body for the game man!

LOL i don't think a lot of people realize what just 99-100 requires in this game and this policy seems childish and short sighted.

Again due to the discrepancy I would still like confirmation from jordi

That post that Virtus said was months ago. Things have been changed and the game even released since then.
Even the TOS is new.

I do happen to agree with you that attended macroing should be allowed, you should start a new thread about it. Where you can discuss whether or not it should be. I dont really think this is the best place for it.

[Cyrianna]

that post from virtus was from 4/3/2011... so 8 days ago makes it old news? The game was released far before he made that posting. I agree, we need Xsyon clarification on this subject.

3rd party programming is such a BROAD spectrum, i mean, just because i have a keyboard/mouse that has the ability to run macroes, regardless of whether i do or do not macro, i can be banned (by your wording) just for owning the software that goes along with the hardware. What about Ventrilo/TS/Mumble? Many of us have used and will continue to use such VOIP's when gaming, and just cause youre telling me i cant... doesnt mean i wont. And frankly the only way you can stop me from doing so is to install spyware software into my files, which i would like to point out is illegal...

[Dade512]

Said a bunch of stuff. Not happy with the answer he got from the paid employee he wanted an answer from.

Is there a nice way to say "Stop being a tool, you got your answer. Sorry it's not the one you were looking to get." FFS, you asked for an answer from a paid employee, you got one man. He's the head Guide, they're the ones that enforce the rules on the GAME SERVER. I would say he'd be the one you want to listen to about IN GAME things, such as macroing. o.O

So if Jordi gives you an answer it's not the one you want, who you gonna ask to hear from then?


that post from virtus was from 4/3/2011... so 8 days ago makes it old news? The game was released far before he made that posting. I agree, we need Xsyon clarification on this subject.

3rd party programming is such a BROAD spectrum, i mean, just because i have a keyboard/mouse that has the ability to run macroes, regardless of whether i do or do not macro, i can be banned (by your wording) just for owning the software that goes along with the hardware. What about Ventrilo/TS/Mumble? Many of us have used and will continue to use such VOIP's when gaming, and just cause youre telling me i cant... doesnt mean i wont. And frankly the only way you can stop me from doing so is to install spyware software into my files, which i would like to point out is illegal...

It's not by his wording...it's the TOS. And seriously, are you gonna feign ignorance enough to act like Vent or TS is 3rd party software that you can get banned fo? Well shit, I'm on vent with a clanmate, I just told him where to find tar. Better ban me!!! Everyone who has sense enough to make toast knows what the hell that clause is talking about.
You macro, just say it. You're trying to justify your macroing program. Suck it up. Yes, you can get banned for macroing...what a novel concept in a game!

Jesus people...

[Cyrianna]

I do happen to agree with you that attended macroing should be allowed, you should start a new thread about it. Where you can discuss whether or not it should be. I dont really think this is the best place for it.

So we're supposed to create a new thread about macroing, because the macroing thread isnt good enough for it?


Is there a nice way to say "Stop being a tool, you got your answer. Sorry it's not the one you were looking to get." FFS, you asked for an answer from a paid employee, you got one man. He's the head Guide, they're the ones that enforce the rules on the GAME SERVER. I would say he'd be the one you want to listen to about IN GAME things, such as macroing. o.O

So if Jordi gives you an answer it's not the one you want, who you gonna ask to hear from then?

Its not about getting an answer that you or i want, its about getting an answer thats not in direct conflict with something another paid employee said.

If
EMPLOYEE A says one thing and
EMPLOYEE B says something different then
EMPLOYEE C needs to confirm with either A or B to create fact of policy

[oneyedwang]

Is there a nice way to say "Stop being a tool, you got your answer. Sorry it's not the one you were looking to get." FFS, you asked for an answer from a paid employee, you got one man. He's the head Guide, they're the ones that enforce the rules on the GAME SERVER. I would say he'd be the one you want to listen to about IN GAME things, such as macroing. o.O

So if Jordi gives you an answer it's not the one you want, who you gonna ask to hear from then?

Lol, I'm sorry but I don't share your logic. Raguel said something another employee disagrees, we would like clarification ? I don't find this unreasonable. The fact that threats are being made towards ventrillo and g15 users is a bit concerning for us I don't see why you're not concerned.

[MrDDT]

that post from virtus was from 4/3/2011... so 8 days ago makes it old news? The game was released far before he made that posting. I agree, we need Xsyon clarification on this subject.

3rd party programming is such a BROAD spectrum, i mean, just because i have a keyboard/mouse that has the ability to run macroes, regardless of whether i do or do not macro, i can be banned (by your wording) just for owning the software that goes along with the hardware. What about Ventrilo/TS/Mumble? Many of us have used and will continue to use such VOIP's when gaming, and just cause youre telling me i cant... doesnt mean i wont. And frankly the only way you can stop me from doing so is to install spyware software into my files, which i would like to point out is illegal...

Im sorry, I thought it was 4/3/10 not 4/3/11.

Yes, I dont know why such a short amount of time there would be a difference of Staff posting this then.

Clearly we need someone posting this. As right now, I dont know who to believe now.

[Dade512]

The fact that threats are being made towards ventrillo and g15 users is a bit concerning for us I don't see why you're not concerned.

Here, I'll help clear part of this up for you.

Mods, Guides, hell, Jordi...I use vent in game. I will go and type it into the help channel if need be. I use Vent, if this is against the TOS, please, ban my account because I've been cheating all this time.

There, I'll let you know the outcome asap.

[MrDDT]

Is there a nice way to say "Stop being a tool, you got your answer. Sorry it's not the one you were looking to get." FFS, you asked for an answer from a paid employee, you got one man. He's the head Guide, they're the ones that enforce the rules on the GAME SERVER. I would say he'd be the one you want to listen to about IN GAME things, such as macroing. o.O

So if Jordi gives you an answer it's not the one you want, who you gonna ask to hear from then?



It's not by his wording...it's the TOS. And seriously, are you gonna feign ignorance enough to act like Vent or TS is 3rd party software that you can get banned fo? Well shit, I'm on vent with a clanmate, I just told him where to find tar. Better ban me!!! Everyone who has sense enough to make toast knows what the hell that clause is talking about.
You macro, just say it. You're trying to justify your macroing program. Suck it up. Yes, you can get banned for macroing...what a novel concept in a game!

Jesus people...

I can see where he is coming from now.
2 people paid by the game makers are telling you 2 totally different things that can get you banned. Wouldnt you want to know which one is correct?

Also, where does this 3rd party issue goto? I mean I run fraps. Can I get banned for that? Some games dont allow it. Some games do. TS3, and Ventrilo are 3rd party programs, I doubt you can get banned for them but when he says "ALL" in bold. You have to wonder what the heck he is talking about now.

I think if Jordi gives him the answer and its not the one he wants likely he is going to leave, or not leave. Its simple as that. Or maybe he will cheat until he is forced to leave. Really the only 3 options.


Here, I'll help clear part of this up for you.

Mods, Guides, hell, Jordi...I use vent in game. I will go and type it into the help channel if need be. I use Vent, if this is against the TOS, please, ban my account because I've been cheating all this time.

There, I'll let you know the outcome asap.

That doesnt work because you have people on the forums still playing "DIRT" that have said they use in game macros to play more than 1 account. Yet none of their accounts are banned.

[oneyedwang]

Here, I'll help clear part of this up for you.

Mods, Guides, hell, Jordi...I use vent in game. I will go and type it into the help channel if need be. I use Vent, if this is against the TOS, please, ban my account because I've been cheating all this time.

There, I'll let you know the outcome asap.

Sure would love to hear your opinion on this matter when you get above 40 weaponcraft and find out at minimum it takes 20k key clicks from 99-100

[Dade512]

Seems to me the better of the two options would be to listen to the guy in charge of those who moderate in game activities. This is, of course, unless you're looking for a way around the very common ban on third party macros.

Oneeyedwang, honestly, I'm in no hurry to get to the "top". To be honest, I was pretty disappointed to see some people were maxing crafts like a week and a half after the release. I mean, why race to the top? I'll get there when I get there. If I plan on playing for a long period of time, on a single character, then I have plenty of time to worry about capping skills.

I mean, I'm working on leatherworking, weaponcrafting, terraforming and do a bit of logging. I've got things enough to keep me occupied. I'm not worried about how many "clicks" it takes to reach max in a skill, I'm more worried about my enjoyment level. I've not been grinding anything, and you're a pretty good guesser that I'm at about 40 WC. haha =P

[Jadzia]

If I remember well Virtus stated somewhere that he is not a paid employee. What if he is a volunteer site admin ?

[Dubanka]

Question on definition:

Use of third party software that would give you or anyone else an advantage of any form.


I, and most players of organized games, utilize teamspeak, or ventrillo, as a means of voice communication.
The ability to coordinate actions outside of game is THE biggest advantage a team can have...
Seeing as xsyon does not have an integrated voice chat mechanism, am i to then assume that utilization of such software is prohibited?

[Dade512]

You're late Dub, that discussions already going on! =P

[oneyedwang]

If I remember well Virtus stated somewhere that he is not a paid employee. What if he is a volunteer site admin ?

If this was handled appropriately and they had good lines of communication and a means to put forward policy to their subscribers would we be having this conversation at all?

I can play the if game too....

[NexAnima]

Questioning TS, vent or other chat programs seems like a strawman argument to me. We all know the focus of the 3rd party tool rule is about macroing, to claim otherwise is feigning ignorance. That said, The current skill system is flawed, there is no argument about that. I'm all for the higher you are, the harder is gets but quantity doesn't equal difficulty. It is a nostalgic method meant for nostalgic games. What is required is a (I hate to use the term) mini game for crafting. Technology has advanced far enough to create is puzzle like system that gets harder as players progress. This would a.) take away the point-click-point-click drull that is the majority MMO crafting and b.) take away the need or ability to macro these skills.

You want to stop macroing, take away the repetitive 30k same clicks needed to master a skill. Otherwise, reap what you sow.

[MrDDT]

Questioning TS, vent or other chat programs seems like a strawman argument to me. We all know the focus of the 3rd party tool rule is about macroing, to claim otherwise is feigning ignorance. That said, The current skill system is flawed, there is no argument about that. I'm all for the higher you are, the harder is gets but quantity doesn't equal difficulty. It is a nostalgic method meant for nostalgic games. What is required is a (I hate to use the term) mini game for crafting. Technology has advanced far enough to create is puzzle like system that gets harder as players progress. This would a.) take away the point-click-point-click drull that is the majority MMO crafting and b.) take away the need or ability to macro these skills.

You want to stop macroing, take away the repetitive 30k same clicks needed to master a skill. Otherwise, reap what you sow.

Pretty sure the reason most companies put in no 3rd party blah blah, is for hacking. Not macroing. Pretty much every game has that line in there, even ones with allow unattended macroing, and attended macroing.

[Dubanka]

Questioning TS, vent or other chat programs seems like a strawman argument to me. We all know the focus of the 3rd party tool rule is about macroing, to claim otherwise is feigning ignorance. That said, The current skill system is flawed, there is no argument about that. I'm all for the higher you are, the harder is gets but quantity doesn't equal difficulty. It is a nostalgic method meant for nostalgic games. What is required is a (I hate to use the term) mini game for crafting. Technology has advanced far enough to create is puzzle like system that gets harder as players progress. This would a.) take away the point-click-point-click drull that is the majority MMO crafting and b.) take away the need or ability to macro these skills.

You want to stop macroing, take away the repetitive 30k same clicks needed to master a skill. Otherwise, reap what you sow.

it was meant to be :p

and your absolutely correct. macroing only exists in an environment where there is a reason to macro :p

dude we got this great concept. we're going to make the players click this button...no, these 4 buttons, in this specific order...100 billion times...yeah thats right 100 billion...and only then will they be the most awesome they can be. yeah man, it's going to totally rock it will be like crazy hard core carpal tunnal man, strong survive and all that.
theres a macro for that.

[oneyedwang]

Pretty sure the reason most companies put in no 3rd party blah blah, is for hacking. Not macroing. Pretty much every game has that line in there, even ones with allow unattended macroing, and attended macroing.

no, as a rule of thumb unattended macroing is almost always illegal. Attended macroing is not, this is a deviation from the norm among similar games and is a new policy being used under a standard TOS clause that is usually directed at hacks,bots,sniffers and general cheats.

[MrDDT]

no, as a rule of thumb unattended macroing is almost always illegal. Attended macroing is not, this is a deviation from the norm among similar games and is a new policy being used under a standard TOS clause that is usually directed at hacks,bots,sniffers and general cheats.

I thought thats what I said.

[Phazaar]

no, as a rule of thumb unattended macroing is almost always illegal. Attended macroing is not, this is a deviation from the norm among similar games and is a new policy being used under a standard TOS clause that is usually directed at hacks,bots,sniffers and general cheats.

Think you're misreading. He's saying that the line about 3rd party programs is included in the TOS of games that DO allow unattended macroing; it's generic and intended to cover hacks and bots, not necessarily macros.

[Zenmaster13]

it was meant to be :p

and your absolutely correct. macroing only exists in an environment where there is a reason to macro :p
.

This very weak argument has been used time and time again. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, it is still not true.

The onus is on you to prove it, but you can't.

Answer this question: How many mmorpgs exist, where you cannot macro?

[Dubanka]

This very weak argument has been used time and time again. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, it is still not true.

The onus is on you to prove it, but you can't.

Answer this question: How many mmorpgs exist, where you cannot macro?

You can macro anything.
the question is, does the macro give you a material advantage over someone who isn't.

[MrDDT]

You can macro anything.
the question is, does the macro give you a material advantage over someone who isn't.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

My thoughts on it also. If they didnt care if you macroed or not, but had systems in place to reward people for PLAYING the game, no one would care if you macroed.

If I macroed afk or at the keyboard for 24/7 but only gained 10% of what someone that was actively playing the game did. No one would care at all if I macroed.

[PeonSanders911]

if you have "Safezones" you will have macroer.............

[Foreseer]

Key binding, macroing, and scripting is a lot like speeding. You can go 5 - 9mph over the speed limit and a cop probably won't bother you, however, you go over 10 he'll likely pull you over, once over 20 you're in some...

Fail to follow the road signs and you risk getting caught. Simply follow the rules, and you're fine and dandy.

What I don't understand the whole retardation of questioning whether voip is an issue, for it is obviously not an issue. You people are some serious trolls. I cannot begin to comment on statements in regard. Now before I leave this thread never to turn back I would like to state some of you are in violation of:

Terms of Service
5. Rules of Conduct:
18. Encouraging others to break these rules.

[darkbladed]

maybe if they gave serious repercussions for not being fed/watered it would at least make macroing a bit harder. Maybe a button that pops up every hourish (with a random deviation to prevent macroing of that) that logs you off if you dont answer an easy math question (5+7=?). If you get it wrong (has a 5 minute time out) you get logged out.

[boomer0901]

I've never used a macro once in 30 years of gaming, I've lost a lot of pvp matches to marcroer's but I've never joined them. I do everything within the game mechanics, but thats not they way ppl see it these days. It's not so much that they want to cheat, they feel they need to cheat so that they can "be uber leet" or whatever the kids are calling it these days. Sure the game mechanics for sandbox's suck and yes it's tedious work, but you just do it.

I have a 100 terraforming, 99 running, 95 jumping, 99 scavenging, fishing 60 and like 25 swimming. Plus most of the my crafting skills are over 40, masonry 83 did it suck yes it did, but I didn't have to macro to do it either.

If you really want to macro, macro I don't really give a shit, but if you happen to beat me in pvp, doesn't make you the most skilled, just remember that when you are beating up on non-macroers. Talent is in the player mostly, but if you have 99armed and 99 blades, skill doesn't matter at that point 2 hits and the other guy is most likely dead, been killed by a few macroers myself already. Just remember you're not a skilled uber leet player, just a macroer on a power trip nothing more and nothing less.

Some say they do it because it hurts to click their mouse over and over again, if you don't have arthritis then it's not a really good excuse to me.


Which gamer isn't under the influence of macros today..?
Even the freaking Theme Park MMO's are subjugated to macros.

[cliff]

Answer this question: How many mmorpgs exist, where you cannot macro?

I know of one off the top of my head, Darkwind. There is no way you'd be able to come up with a macro to play that game - about the best you'd be able to do is a macro to assign gunners, maybe handle the looting for you, and even that would be pointless.

[clangedon]

macroers are the last problems of this game

[Shrimps]

I really can't believe the trolls in this thread. Even DDT is trolling it up, all we need now is BAC to pop in and we have ourselves a troll party.

I use Ventrilo, I use a software that allows me to bind keys to my mouse buttons, I consistantly use macros that let me assign keys etc. Will I get banned? No. How are they going to know whether or not you are using any of this short of coming to your house and inspecting your computer?

And more importantly why should they care? Sure these give advantages over others, but not anything permanent game wise.

Obviously the TOS is directed towards afk macroers and hackers.

If I want to automate the 70k key clicks it takes to make 5 limestone walls instead of wearing out my hand and mouse, then as long as I'm not afk then that's my buisiness. I still have to go out and gather the materials etc. etc.

Cannot believe this thread has gotten so long on such a stupid, stupid argument.

[MrDDT]

I really can't believe the trolls in this thread. Even DDT is trolling it up, all we need now is BAC to pop in and we have ourselves a troll party.

I use Ventrilo, I use a software that allows me to bind keys to my mouse buttons, I consistantly use macros that let me assign keys etc. Will I get banned? No. How are they going to know whether or not you are using any of this short of coming to your house and inspecting your computer?

And more importantly why should they care? Sure these give advantages over others, but not anything permanent game wise.

Obviously the TOS is directed towards afk macroers and hackers.

If I want to automate the 70k key clicks it takes to make 5 limestone walls instead of wearing out my hand and mouse, then as long as I'm not afk then that's my buisiness. I still have to go out and gather the materials etc. etc.

Cannot believe this thread has gotten so long on such a stupid, stupid argument.


Some people believe in the fact that even if they cant or wont get caught at some thing that they still shouldnt do it.
Problem is they are pretty much saying for anyone that has morals and follows the rules, that they cant macro even attended. While people like you will gain an advantage (however slight) by using macros just not getting caught. Because there is no real system to stop people like you.

I dont believe in what you are doing, I believe in following the rules. I will follow the rules even if I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I wouldnt get caught. Because thats just how I play games. I dont believe in cheating.

It is to the point where we are not allowed to use voice chat, IRC, or IM programs. I will quit the game. Likely Im quitting anyways unless macroing is either highly detected, or the 70k key clicks like you say are not changed. But there are people out there that follow the rules.

You are trying to say we are trolling, when all we are trying to get clear what we are allowed to do. Im pro marcos. I even dont care about unattended macroing because I believe the game system should make it sorta worthless to do either. Ive explained before how to do this, its done with rewarding players for actively playing.

[Shrimps]

Some people believe in the fact that even if they cant or wont get caught at some thing that they still shouldnt do it.
Problem is they are pretty much saying for anyone that has morals and follows the rules, that they cant macro even attended. While people like you will gain an advantage (however slight) by using macros just not getting caught. Because there is no real system to stop people like you.

I dont believe in what you are doing, I believe in following the rules. I will follow the rules even if I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I wouldnt get caught. Because thats just how I play games. I dont believe in cheating.

It is to the point where we are not allowed to use voice chat, IRC, or IM programs. I will quit the game. Likely Im quitting anyways unless macroing is either highly detected, or the 70k key clicks like you say are not changed. But there are people out there that follow the rules.

You are trying to say we are trolling, when all we are trying to get clear what we are allowed to do. Im pro marcos. I even dont care about unattended macroing because I believe the game system should make it sorta worthless to do either. Ive explained before how to do this, its done with rewarding players for actively playing.

People like me? so people like me that realize a mouse only has so many clicks before it starts to degrade and you must get a new one? Quite honestly I don't even log in anymore since there is nothing to do besides the glitchy warping fail excuse for PVP, but that's besides the point really.

I spent about 3 hours making bricks before I decided to automate it somewhat. That's about 5 clicks per second (You get really fast after the tenthousandth click) and about 54,00 clicks total with someone else gathering the stone to keep me constantly clicking as fast as I can.

I do NOT use the macro to do anything afk. I have to be there at the computer because I have to dump the bricks into a bag and pick up more rocks when I finish a pile. So no I do not feel I'm cheating since you cannot have the macro perform any faster or efficient than manually doing it because the UI messes up when you go too fast and my mouse will last much longer than if I were right clicking constantly. Oh and I save about 5 grand on carpal tunnel surgery, but other than that there aren't really any in game advantages.

But as I've said afk macroing is a completely different story and I even made a thread about it not too long ago which was mostly ignored by the Dev's and guides. So it's not like I'm pro macro, I didn't even macro in DF and I was at extreme disadvantages for it. AFK macroing is wrong we all know that, but improving gameplay ease by adding hotbar shortcuts etc. would be a stupid thing to ban for. Also any game that bans TS and Vent is dooming itself to failure before it even begins. They're not that stupid.



Enjoy your ban, cheater.

How's it been man? I've missed this.

[China]

You know Shrimps, you are not very bright, but that's okay sometimes people are just created without enough volts to light up the attic and it's not your fault.

You just admitted to macroing, and also stated that you will continue, even though a "paid" employee of Xsyon has said in this very thread that attended & unattended "marcoers" would suffer the consequences. He also stated those consequences. You are foolish to think that they don't know who your ingame character is and that they won't be watching and waiting.

But what the hell, some people just have a death wish, reminds me of the Darwin Awards.

Speed on toward that cliff my friend, I'll be passing out the popcorn......never could resist watching a train wreck.

China

[ocoma]

Seriously? There are like a whole 10 people left playing this game atm, and you guys are still going on about macroers. Get a freeken clue. Right now this game needs every paying customer it can get. Even if they are paying to autoplay the game while they sleep.

[Shrimps]

You know Shrimps, you are not very bright, but that's okay sometimes people are just created without enough volts to light up the attic and it's not your fault.

You just admitted to macroing, and also stated that you will continue, even though a "paid" employee of Xsyon has said in this very thread that attended & unattended "marcoers" would suffer the consequences. He also stated those consequences. You are foolish to think that they don't know who your ingame character is and that they won't be watching and waiting.

But what the hell, some people just have a death wish, reminds me of the Darwin Awards.

Speed on toward that cliff my friend, I'll be passing out the popcorn......never could resist watching a train wreck.

China

You are possibly the smartest person ever, in the history of ever.

[Risk]

amen...
many of them are...