Idea for SAFE ZONES

[joexxxz]

I have a suggestion how to make it better.
Let say the person moves in to his/her the tribe area. The counter(A) starts countdown from 30 mins. When the counter reaches 0, the players save zone removed. Now he/she can be attacked. Once the person moves out of tribe area, the other counter(B) starts countdown from 15 min.
The counter(B) is to keep track time outside the tribe area. Once the counter(B) goes 0, it will add 30 mins for the tribe area counter(A). Now the tribe area counter(A) is above 0, this means when the person goes back to tribe area, the area will be safe zone again.
That way players wont spend all the time on tribe area, and if they do, they are open for PVP.

EDIT: One more thought.
Let say, the evil player came to someone's tribe area. and that evil player spends about 3 min on that tribe area without leaving the tribe area. Now for that evil player the tribe area opens up for PVP. Its your fault that you didnt killed him or asked him to leave within that time frame.
Once the evil player leaves the tribe area, the counter is reset in 3 min.

Everyone is happy now


Player A outside the someone's tribe area. Counter=3min
Player A moves into the someones tribe area. Counter=3min and decreasing
If Player A moves out tribe area. Counter=3min again
Player A moves back to tribe area. Counter=3min and decreasing
Player A stays on tribe area. counter decreasing, reached 0 min
Player A now can attack that tribe members.
Player A, scared, runs out of tribe area. Counter(b) counts upto 3mins.
When counter(b) reached 3mins , player A counter(a) resets back to 3min, Player A, no longer can attack members on tribe area, counter(b)=0, resets;

Anyone have any comments???

[Dirt]

reminds me of algebra. i failed.

[Jadzia]

Ok, my comment just to please you.

Brilliant ideas. Would make a lot of opportunities for griefing.

1. I would love to be chased to my safe zone, then stay there for 30 mins while the PKers are standing outside and I would love to tease them. Then when the clock shows 29 mins I would log off and hope that they get a heart attack :)

2. Even more brilliant. So 20 evil players run into a homestead area, wait for 3 mins then kill the owner. If he try to run away then they kill him outside. This is really what we need, thanks for bringing it up.

/sarcasm off

Just forget all this madness, and leave it as it is.

[maelwydd]

Ther is always logging on to find someone has been sitting in your zone for 30 mins already and they kill you as you spawn....

[joexxxz]

@Jadzia.
1. If you being chased to your safe zone, call your bodies for help, instead of standing there and tease them ;)
Because you still have 30 mins of safety.

2. If 20 evil players run into your homestead, try to kill at least half of them, because you are still invincible for 3 minutes.
Protect your homestead by having fenses, walls etc,..

There is always ways around a problem, only if u are the solution ;)

@ maelwydd. The timer only actives for those who is online. ;)

[Jadzia]

@Jadzia.
1. If you being chased to your safe zone, call your bodies for help, instead of standing there and tease them ;)
Because you still have 30 mins of safety.

2. If 20 evil players run into your homestead, try to kill at least half of them, because you are still invincible for 3 minutes.
Protect your homestead by having fenses, walls etc,..

1. No way, I don't want to entertain them but to make suffer and waste time :p If they find a good fight they might develop the habit to come back and bug me ! I have to teach them that attacking me is a waste of time, that 30 mins delay is a perfect way to do so. Really a very bad idea, lol.

2. If the homestead owner kills 10 of the 20, there is still 10 more who will kill him in a second. There are fences and walls, but there are no gates so how to protect the area ?

[joexxxz]

@Jazdia. Hope something like gates will be implemented. Im sorry, but im not done with my logic.
Let say you want more safety, and i really think you do. So to solve something like this you can scavange, or search for a protection crystal. Once you find it, you might place/upgrade it some where in your tribe area, into a building, and that building will give you a 25% bonus in defense, plus %10 bonus for tribe area. You can put those cristals in many buildings. And your tribe area will be protected. That way you have an upperhand against your evil players. There is always ways to go around, so everyone can be happy. :)

Im saying you like crafting, and making your homestead protected would be your goal. And you will have something to do, and trade for. The game have to be challanging, fun, and easy for smart ones. ;)

[Jadzia]

@Jazdia. Hope something like gates will be implemented. Im sorry, but im not done with my logic.
Let say you want more safety, and i really think you do. So to solve something like this you can scavange, or search for a protection crystal. Once you find it, you might place it some where in your tribe area, into a building, and that building will give you a 25% bonus in defense, plus %10 bonus for tribe area. You can put those cristals in many buildings. And your tribe area will be protected. That way you have an upperhand against your evil players. There is always ways to go around, so everyone can be happy. :)

Im saying you like crafting, and making your homestead protected would be your goal. And you will have something to do, and trade for.
I don't want more safety, I'm really happy with the one I have right now :)
Its not clear what you mean by 10% bonus for tribe area, but generally I like the idea to work for safe zone. Not in a way like you said, but differently.

Say a new homestead gets a really small zone, like 3 m radius. Enough to drop you baskets but not enough to build anything. There should be a skill or even an item like the crystal you said which expands the safe zone around the homestead. Starting small but growing as big as possible would be much more interesting than a fixed safe zone from the beginning which we can't expand in any way (if you still want to stay solo).

[Book]

Only trouble I can think of with a 3m radius to start, while an interesting idea, would be for new players. One of the draws to this game (for me anyway) is the ability to create a homestead and experiment with crafts. This needs a certain amount of room from the beginning. Limiting a new player's ability to do this might hurt new player retention?

When I start the game, I notice I have to choose the character name, and then log in. This leads me to believe that there will be second, third, etc. characters sometime in the future. Perhaps a long time, but why else have that mechanic coded in?

One idea might be to allow for safe zones around homesteads, like we have now, for a new customer's first character. Subsequent characters do not get a safe zone.
Allows first time players a chance to chill out, learn the game, be able to enjoy what has brought many of us to this game. (Not all, I understand) By the time you make a second character, you've hopefully made some friends, or at the very least negotiated an agreement with your local castle for protection in return for a steady supply of eggs and vegetables.
Also, down the road, would encourage people to keep their first characters which by then would have become old coots (many seasons having passed), and we can kick back on pioneer rocking chairs complaining about the yoots of today.

Oh, and Joe, that is a beautifully complicated suggestion. You should be an engineer :D

[Jadzia]

Only trouble I can think of with a 3m radius to start, while an interesting idea, would be for new players. One of the draws to this game (for me anyway) is the ability to create a homestead and experiment with crafts. This needs a certain amount of room from the beginning. Limiting a new player's ability to do this might hurt new player retention?

When I start the game, I notice I have to choose the character name, and then log in. This leads me to believe that there will be second, third, etc. characters sometime in the future. Perhaps a long time, but why else have that mechanic coded in?

One idea might be to allow for safe zones around homesteads, like we have now, for a new customer's first character. Subsequent characters do not get a safe zone.
Allows first time players a chance to chill out, learn the game, be able to enjoy what has brought many of us to this game. (Not all, I understand) By the time you make a second character, you've hopefully made some friends, or at the very least negotiated an agreement with your local castle for protection in return for a steady supply of eggs and vegetables.
Also, down the road, would encourage people to keep their first characters which by then would have become old coots (many seasons having passed), and we can kick back on pioneer rocking chairs complaining about the yoots of today.

Oh, and Joe, that is a beautifully complicated suggestion. You should be an engineer :D

The 3m was only a guess, it can be anything that is big enough for a crafting station but not big enough to build upon :) And new players could expand their area just as the older ones.

The character selection screen is there because we had 3 characters for testing purposes during beta. I don't think they ever want to add an option to have more characters per account.

[orious13]

Having "buffs" from buildings while in your tribe is a great idea. It not only makes buildings more useful than "storage" and "comfort" later, but also makes it so that warring tribes later on have to scout out and see what buildings people have and what they need to attack in order to obtain the best victory possible. If the devs wanted to, they could make them scale towards zergs.... you know... hometeam advantage spiritually, mentally, and physically.

Not sure what I think about the time thing...
Half of me says it can turn into some bad harassment.
Half of me thinks it can give pvpers something to do.
All of me thinks it should wait until combat is "fixed".

[Book]

The 3m was only a guess, it can be anything that is big enough for a crafting station but not big enough to build upon :) And new players could expand their area just as the older ones.

There was another thread started recently about possibly having grass buildings. I remember the first time I logged in, I didn't entirely realize I would literally be in the middle of nowhere, getting hungry and thirsty without a single thing around. I then realized naked people with clubs wanted to kill me and take the few belongings I had... Did I mention they were naked?
I know there'll be tribes near starter areas, and some of them may be friendly, but it would still be nice for a new player to put up maybe a small grass lean-to or something "relatively" quickly so they can let their heart-rate drop and process what the heck just happened to them :D

Also, what types of activities would allow the expansion of a soloer's land? Would you limit the size they can grow to?


The character selection screen is there because we had 3 characters for testing purposes during beta. I don't think they ever want to add an option to have more characters per account.

Ah. Was not aware of this, thanks for the info.

@Orious and Joe: far as the buffs, I love the idea of adding value to having reconnaissance missions prior to an attack. How bout making it so you could only tell what kind of crystal/buff a certain building has by getting very close to it? Meaning some specialized member of your tribe would have to hide and infiltrate the enemy camp to gather the intel.
This would also be a good reason not to show a character's tribe affiliation on screen... "we are but friendly traders delivering this beautiful wooden horse crafted by Trojans..."

[vorg]

As someone not interrested in the pvp side, I would like to see a way to opt out. For example, if your tribe is set to good, you can not be attack by other players. You could not attack good or neutral. You could attack evil, but they could fight back and maybe anyone from their tribe could also attack for the next 10 minutes or something.

Or at least give players who are part of good tribe/homestead the option to be non-pvp. Or make it a tribe setting. Also would need a one time option at least to change tribe to good. I went with neutral and can't change it now without loosing my spot because of near by tribes that came after.

[Jadzia]

There was another thread started recently about possibly having grass buildings. I remember the first time I logged in, I didn't entirely realize I would literally be in the middle of nowhere, getting hungry and thirsty without a single thing around. I then realized naked people with clubs wanted to kill me and take the few belongings I had... Did I mention they were naked?
I know there'll be tribes near starter areas, and some of them may be friendly, but it would still be nice for a new player to put up maybe a small grass lean-to or something "relatively" quickly so they can let their heart-rate drop and process what the heck just happened to them :D

Also, what types of activities would allow the expansion of a soloer's land? Would you limit the size they can grow to?


To expand it to a size where a player is able to build a single tent should be easy, something that is possible on the first day. And the homestead area protects the new player even if there aren't any buildings :)

I wouldn't limit the size, but would make it like any other skill, with a soft cap. It could expand to a fairly big size but after that it would be very hard to make it grow.

[mrcalhou]

I have a suggestion how to make it better.
Let say the person moves in to his/her the tribe area. The counter(A) starts countdown from 30 mins. When the counter reaches 0, the players save zone removed. Now he/she can be attacked. Once the person moves out of tribe area, the other counter(B) starts countdown from 15 min.
The counter(B) is to keep track time outside the tribe area. Once the counter(B) goes 0, it will add 30 mins for the tribe area counter(A). Now the tribe area counter(A) is above 0, this means when the person goes back to tribe area, the area will be safe zone again.
That way players wont spend all the time on tribe area, and if they do, they are open for PVP.

EDIT: One more thought.
Let say, the evil player came to someone's tribe area. and that evil player spends about 3 min on that tribe area without leaving the tribe area. Now for that evil player the tribe area opens up for PVP. Its your fault that you didnt killed him or asked him to leave within that time frame.
Once the evil player leaves the tribe area, the counter is reset in 3 min.

Everyone is happy now


Player A outside the someone's tribe area. Counter=3min
Player A moves into the someones tribe area. Counter=3 and decreasing
Player A moves out tribe area. Counter=3min again
Player A moves back to tribe area. Counter decreasing
Player A stays on tribe area. counter decreasing, reached 0
Player A now can attack that tribe members.
Player A, scared, runs out of tribe area. Counter(b) counts upto 3mins.
When counter(b) reached 3mins , player A counter(a) resets back to 3min, Player A, no longer can attack members on tribe area, counter(b)=0;

Anyone have any comments???

That's way too complicated.

After they add more area, I'd like to see some areas where there's no PvP at all, but with very common resources and then other places that have no protection, but have region and zone specific resources so that there's a good reason to PvP.

[Trenchfoot]

After they add more area, I'd like to see some areas where there's no PvP at all, but with very common resources and then other places that have no protection, but have region and zone specific resources so that there's a good reason to PvP.

See? It's happening already. We've gone from safe zones to designated non-pvp areas including resources. Want much lately? Why even have safe zones?

Just designate an entire zone for non-pvp. Or better yet, designate 4 whole zones to pvp and the rest of the map is a safe zone? I mean we're feeling generous right? They can have 4 WHOLE ZONES! It fits nicely on the map....

Or we could even have non-pvp roads that go thru 'the pvp zone' so you can get to and from work, arranging your hedges.

[Jadzia]

See? It's happening already. We've gone from safe zones to designated non-pvp areas including resources. Want much lately? Why even have safe zones?

Just designate an entire zone for non-pvp. Or better yet, designate 4 whole zones to pvp and the rest of the map is a safe zone? I mean we're feeling generous right? They can have 4 WHOLE ZONES! It fits nicely on the map....

Or we could even have non-pvp roads that go thru 'the pvp zone' so you can get to and from work, arranging your hedges.

mrcalhou somewhere suggested this system, he wanted the split the map like 60% PvP zone, 40% safe zone. I'd prefer 50%-50%, its more fair :P

[vorg]

Just leave safe zones as planed where tribes will later be able to set their land as a safe zone and optionally make it a spawn point. And for those that want to be able to step off their land and explore a bit without getting ganked, good tribes ar5e non-pvp. Seems like there was something already planed about going safe not doing something or other. And since some are pvp crazed, they can go evil and risk having a good attack them at the risk of that good tribe being open to pvp attacks by evil tribe members for a LIMITED time after.

[Trenchfoot]

I favor colonels idea so far.

[joexxxz]

@Book,
Thank you for your comments :) And yes, the reason i wrote like that, is because i know C++ programming language.

About crystals i would like to add more:
There can be all kinds of crystals, in colors, in different shape, for all reasons.

For example let say a blue crystal with diamond shape can be placed in a building. Now that building boots up the protection of a radius let say (3)meters, gives the tribe members a bonus in defense %200 , which is double what their usually defense. Let say the crystals also have a life span.
Another crystals can do damage to enemy players when in radius.
It should also be possible to steal, or get the crystals from buildings, but it should be difficult and it should depends if tribe members are logged in, and what percentage of tribe members online.

Buildings should have a meaning in the game. With certain attributes.

And that will make more fun for crafters, and pkers.

Another crystal might be the informer, if someone gets on tribe area, and you are away scavanging. the crystal that in your backpack starts to vibrate and give off certain sound to inform you that enemy is on your tribe area.

[mrcalhou]

mrcalhou somewhere suggested this system, he wanted the split the map like 60% PvP zone, 40% safe zone. I'd prefer 50%-50%, its more fair :P

Trench is just one of those people that thinks a game MUST have ffa-pvp everywhere or it breaks the game. I'd like to cite Darkfall as a reason why ffa-pvp everywhere is a bad idea. I'd like to cite Eve-online as a reason why having such severe consequences for attempting to PvP in the designated safe areas is a good idea.

When you have ffa-pvp everywhere then people aren't even going to give the game a second glance. When you give players the option of choosing where they want to play at, and especially when you give the players the option to continually choose this without having to completely start over, then you open your game up to a lot more people.

I see it a lot on game forums. People don't like to play MMOs that have low populations, so they don't play, so the population never increases, so fewer people play. Does anyone else see the catch-22?

Now giving players a toggle that they can turn on or off anywhere is a bad design decision because it leads to so many possible abuses. Like plopping a safe zone over a super-rare resource. Grant it we don't have any of that in the game yet--the game is just one giant homogenous mass of resources, which is another problem in itself. Oh, and as I've predicted would happen many moons ago, there's an overabundance of crafted goods.

Honestly, I'm just tired of developers copying all the bad ideas from other games and leaving the good ones behind. Having ffa-pvp everywhere, the same resources everywhere, the same stats on crafted goods, and extremely resilient items doesn't make a game more balanced or realistic. It just makes it boring and stagnate.

[joexxxz]

Well there is a problem if crafters can make 100 gear in less than an hour. And the crafters are just seat there and click click click click. Now multiply that by 10 players, thats like 1000 gear in a hour. Do u see the problem? And for whom are they making the gear, if they are for safe zones, Lol for zombies? If a crafter not in a secure zone, (and I mean not a hard coded secure zone), he/she should worry about being attacked. Second, the items needs to be more difficult to craft. its to way easy right now. There have to be a mini game for crafters. In the real life, it takes days/weeks for someone to craft a rug or something.

[mrcalhou]

Well there is a problem if crafters can make 100 gear in less than an hour. And the crafters are just seat there and click click click click. Now multiply that by 10 players, thats like 1000 gear in a hour. Do u see the problem? And for whom are they making the gear, if they are for safe zones, Lol for zombies? If a crafter not in a secure zone, (and I mean not a hard coded secure zone), he/she should worry about being attacked. Second, the items needs to be more difficult to craft. its to way easy right now. There have to be a mini game for crafters. In the real life, it takes days/weeks for someone to craft a rug or something.

I really dislike realism arguements for a game, but despite that, I do agree with your post. Pvp, resources, territory, crafting, all of these things are connected yet rarely does a developer get it right. It's not even that difficult to find a working example--it's only the largest emergent gameplay MMO.

[joexxxz]

Thanks for agreeing (mrcalhou) with me i guess for the first time ;) The reason why i compare real life, cuz this is the one known reality that make sense for us humans. In this reality everything depends on each other, time, physics, gravity, ect,...
What if i would told u, that i can run at 100mph, would you believe me, or would u say its impossible. Probably not believe me and i hope. Samething with the game, there have to be some logic in the game, and balance, or else it would make no sense and fun. Im not saying that every detail have to be based on realism, but it should base on some principals and logic. One example of, games based on magic, they are not real but when it make sense, then its fun to play.

[vorg]

Eve's version of "safe zones" works only to a degree. Players who like to explore are still confined to small areas compared to the size of the game world. And the explores are less likely to have an armada or army to escort them everywhere to protect them from those who think they have to kill everything that moves to have fun. Xsyon is suposed to have trade. But that doesn't work if the traders and crafters have to stay confined to a "safe zone". It makes the game get boring quick and leave. The way games like SWG and Jumpgate handled it are better. (yes starwars galaxy was a major botch up over all. But it came from sony games. what do you expect?) In these games you can choose pvp. You set a pvp flag and after a timer you can set it back. A group is already setup for it here. You have good, neutral and evil. Make good mainly non-pvp. There is already a system in place to lower the standing from good based on player action. Could even make good limited pvp with the option to attack evil players that have engaged in pvp in the last 24-48 hours opening up that good tribe to pvp with the evil tribe for a an hour. Players who want to go around killing mindlessly will be open to attacks from a larger player base making the mindless pk'ers the hunted for a change.

[joexxxz]

Yes, if the player is evil and that player dont like to craft, that player wont have the best gear there is. And if the crafters are on a good side, they wont trade with the evil player, making that player have less in defense.
If the evil player like to attack everything that moves, his/her equipment is going to be damage much quicker, meaning he/she will only have the basic items all the time, unless the player will find a crafter that is willing to trade for safety from others or his/hers.

[Trenchfoot]

Trench is just one of those people

Glad to see I have a label now.


I'd like to cite Darkfall

Darkfall is a pvp arena masquerading as a world building sandbox. If I wanted that I'd be there. Same goes for MO. Eve is a different beast than this game entirely which we could go on about all day.

I want crafting and world building just as much as I want to experience the dangers of living in a post-apoc world. So let's stop pretending everyone who wants an open pvp environment is also against everything non-pvp related.


When you have ffa-pvp everywhere then people aren't even going to give the game a second glance.

Correction. Some people. And that's good. You don't invite someone who wants to play blackjack to sit down at the roulette table. Please everyone, end up pleasing no one.


and especially when you give the players the option to continually choose this without having to completely start over, then you open your game up to a lot more people.

Of course you do, because everyone wants to win! Always. All the time. Every time.

People like me just want a game where we can have the opportunity to loose. But that frightens some of you.

We just want a game where the players have the freedom to make the game what it is.

If you leave it to the players to make their own safe zones, by building walls and cities, and protecting the non-pvp element, guess what? THEY WILL! And subsequently there WILL be safe zones.

But that isn't safe enough for some of you. In fact, you don't want a 'game (competition)' at all. You want a sim.


Honestly, I'm just tired of developers copying all the bad ideas from other games and leaving the good ones behind.


I really dislike realism arguements for a game

You and me both.

Not for nothin', but I don't tow an FFA party line. I already admitted here and elsewhere that some of the suggestions about warlike/peaceful safe zones sounded like they are worth at least more discussion if not an attempt.

[joexxxz]

I want crafting and world building just as much as I want to experience the dangers of living in a post-apoc world. So let's stop pretending everyone who wants an open pvp environment is also against everything non-pvp related.


Good point +5 :)

Im happy that Jadzia is sleeping right now, or else she would be complaining how our ideas are so bad ;)

[Jadzia]

Good point +5 :)

Im happy that Jadzia is sleeping right now, or else she would be complaining how our ideas are so bad ;)

I'm not sleeping :p

[Trenchfoot]

To get back to my original point it is this:

When you designate a pvp area and implement non-pvp areas, you are basically sending players to the smokers lounge. That's what it is.

Our(open worlders) hope is this: if they get things right, non-pvp players will be our most valuable asset as pvprs, which by necessity makes their protection of vital interest and prime importance.

And this what what I personally am hoping they get right, that no one else has come close to since UO.

Yes I am arguing for open pvp with no safe zone mechanics. But on the same token, I'm also arguing for a higher importance/value for crafters and world builders. If THEY are a dime a dozen with no real effect, then I will like this game about as much as I like DF or MO.

In fact, we should have master craftsmen that are so rare they become famous for their works. So, like the famous sword makers of Japan, their crafted items become highly prized and the stuff of legends.

Also, magic always sounds flakey to me so I'm biased in that regard. Some home field advantage does sound like a neat idea though.

[d3m0nd0]

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6108-PvP-Protection?p=72404#post72404 Wouldnt this be easier and less complicated to programme?

[MGStewart]

that reminds me off runescape d3m0nd0 and it works well on there.

ON that its if you hit them your skulled and if you die you lose everything.
IF they hit you and your not skulled and you die you keep 3 items.

Also if your in lvl 1 wild attack someone and run back out theres a 10 second timer till they can stop attacking you so it stops annoying noobs which is good.