Safe Zones: Here To Stay, Beyond Prelude

[Robhood]

NOTE: I edited this post to make more sense by placing the Xsyon posts in order that they appeared.

The misconception on dropping safe zones after Prelude came from here, where people thoughht at some point during or after Prelude, they would be dropped:

"2) The game will start with two game servers: War and Peace.

The War server will have safe zones removed during the Prelude. The plan is to evolve this server to focus more on tribal warfare and conquest as quickly as possible.

The Peace server will retain its safe zones with tribes having the options to engage in tribal warfare or allow PvP on tribal lands. This server will evolve more for the crafting and building community." Xsyon

This post then followed:

"Regarding the future of safe zones and conquest as brought about by the discussion of War and Peace servers:

What I imagine is:
- Tribes choosing to become warring on non-warring, not as an on / off switch but as a permanent or difficult to reverse decision, likely based on tribal actions.
- Warring tribes would be able to conquer and raid others, but they will also become susceptible to war. Non warring tribes would keep their area safe, but don’t gain the ability to raid or conquer other tribes.
- Both warring and non-warring tribes could claim resources that would be up for contest by both types of tribes.
- Some expansion zones being open to more conquest without safe zones, while in others tribes would retain the choice to war or not." -Xsyon

The misconception on dropping safe zones after Prelude came from here, where people thoughht at some point during or after Prelude, they would be dropped:

2) The game will start with two game servers: War and Peace.

"The War server will have safe zones removed during the Prelude. The plan is to evolve this server to focus more on tribal warfare and conquest as quickly as possible.

The Peace server will retain its safe zones with tribes having the options to engage in tribal warfare or allow PvP on tribal lands. This server will evolve more for the crafting and building community." Xsyon

[JCatano]

The "misconception" came from Jordi himself a year ago. He stated safe zones would only be during Prelude. Obviously, he backpedaled.

[Andius]

I fully support permanent safezones but as small as this games population is I don't think it is wise to divide them between two servers. Also I think having a "War" server will have some serious downsides. New players will be forced to join a war-ready tribe as soon as they join or be utterly destroyed. I really like the idea of "inner and outer territories" I posted here:

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/5864-Rare-resources-and-inner-outer-territories

With a system like this, all the server population will be kept together, which will both negate the need for buying another server, and allow people to move into the outer territories as they got more confident in their fighting abilities. They do so at the penalty of not having direct access to outer territory resources but they can always trade for the resources out there, or make a long distance trip for a dangerous but rewarding adventure.

I fear if you divided the two servers though, the war server would have almost no population. After it loses all the people living on the safe servers, which will be expanded because some who might have wanted to fight some day will want to stay on the safe servers where they have a chance to really learn the game, it will take additional losses to the fact that given the entire server is filled with PKers and there is no protection, new players will be slaughtered repeatedly until they rage quit.

I personally really would like to live on a PVP server, but at the same time it would be nice to be able to go to a base where I can just relax and build.

We know from safe zone poles that people who want a system of complete chaos is the minority of this game. If they are shoved over onto a new no-safezone server, soon there will be nobody left to fight.

[Dubanka]

im curious to see how/if this discussion has evolved now that the game is kinda live.

is crafting and terraforming without purpose still 'awesome'?
Do the proponents of the 'forever safe' environemnt still feel that way, having now experienced a game largely devoid of purpose and motivation (that being there is no reason to do an activity, besides the activity itself)?

Don't get me wrong, personnally i don't think the safe zones should be removed until a) we have an ability to secure our towns and b) combat mechanics gets a revamp and fnally c) PO weapons are made to disintigrate after 10 hits :p

but 'forever safe' seems to be a moniker for 'forever boring'.

[orious13]

With this single server deal we have now...

I seriously doubt that it'll be safe zones after prelude. You might have safe areas (as in protected with gates or pets or something and indestructable).

But that's a ways away from now and it has been proven that things can always change.

[Andius]

I fully agree Dubanka. Thats a large reason why I think splitting forever safe servers from PVP servers is a really, really, bad idea. The PVP servers will die fast and the forever safe servers will die slow. Put together in an environment where higher risk means higher reward, they have the ability to enhance each other.

[vorg]

He talked about going dual servers right after the botched launch as a way to reduce the load on the servers to reduce lag. But then he went back to single server and said that tribes will be able to set their tribe as a safe zone but it would be hard to switch back and forth. So you decide, set and leave it for the most part. Tribes would then also have the option of making their tribe a spawn point once the safe zone spawns are removed.

[Millstone]

Safe Zone will still be going away after prelude. Sorry.

[wulvgar]

The "misconception" came from Jordi himself a year ago. He stated safe zones would only be during Prelude. Obviously, he backpedaled.

wrong
they are here to say your behind. Never going happen this isn't open pvp game stated many many times

[Redus]

im curious to see how/if this discussion has evolved now that the game is kinda live.

is crafting and terraforming without purpose still 'awesome'?
Do the proponents of the 'forever safe' environemnt still feel that way, having now experienced a game largely devoid of purpose and motivation (that being there is no reason to do an activity, besides the activity itself)?

Don't get me wrong, personnally i don't think the safe zones should be removed until a) we have an ability to secure our towns and b) combat mechanics gets a revamp and fnally c) PO weapons are made to disintigrate after 10 hits :p

but 'forever safe' seems to be a moniker for 'forever boring'.

This has more to do with the fact there is no decay then the fact there is no war. If you have PvP those items would still be in the game! This only means that you will have a portion of player that would not have to buy gear and an other portion who would need to buy a lot of it.

[Jadzia]

This has more to do with the fact there is no decay then the fact there is no war. If you have PvP those items would still be in the game! This only means that you will have a portion of player that would not have to buy gear and an other portion who would need to buy a lot of it.

This. I still feel that the option to keep safe zones forever is a good and needed thing. What we need is item decay and item loss on death to keep the economy alive.

[Salvadore]

Giving the playerbase 2 options: War tribe and Peace tribe -

So easy to exploit.

Peace tribes may be peace, but will always rely on the crutch of their safezones (exploit). Gives much and/or same rewards with no risk.

War tribes will simply need to have an alt account that will be a Peace totem owner. Full benefit of peace tribe, switch tribes when needed or when wanting to war, switch tribes back. Use War status to gain land, drop totem/recreate peace -> new permanent peace land not able to be taken away. Abuse Abuse Abuse.

That is NOT balance. Doesn't matter who likes what, it simply will not work and will be extensively exploited by both sides.

[Chevron]

This. I still feel that the option to keep safe zones forever is a good and needed thing. What we need is item decay and item loss on death to keep the economy alive.

Laugh...there is no econemy nor a need for one..large tribes will have crafters of each type and not need to trade buy or sell to anyone and people like myself with a homstead can do the same lol. I have every type of tool...my junk pile...water resources and have unlocked everything needed atm and will continue to do so as i need new things....forever safe zones...an econemy....laugh

[Robhood]

Safe Zone will still be going away after prelude. Sorry.

You need to see a professional about your denial.

[JCatano]

wrong
they are here to say your behind. Never going happen this isn't open pvp game stated many many times

You might want to go back and read what I was replying to, then reread what I typed, Skippy.

[Andius]

Giving the playerbase 2 options: War tribe and Peace tribe -

So easy to exploit.

Peace tribes may be peace, but will always rely on the crutch of their safezones (exploit). Gives much and/or same rewards with no risk.

War tribes will simply need to have an alt account that will be a Peace totem owner. Full benefit of peace tribe, switch tribes when needed or when wanting to war, switch tribes back. Use War status to gain land, drop totem/recreate peace -> new permanent peace land not able to be taken away. Abuse Abuse Abuse.

That is NOT balance. Doesn't matter who likes what, it simply will not work and will be extensively exploited by both sides.

I fully agree if peace/war tribes share the same zones and same rewards.

If war tribes are pushed to the outer territories where the best rewards are though, then that changes things. You can't put down a peace tribe in the outer territories meaning if you want access to those greater rewards, you either have to maintain a fort in the outer territories or run all your goods back to the inner territories. Either method poses considerable risk, and the riskier method of maintaining the fort will allow you to gather faster. You can even wall off rare resource deposits within your fort. Peace tribes can't do that. If you ship your goods from a fort in the outer territories to the inner territories all the better. Hopefully by this point they have wagons or some such thing, and a fully loaded wagon would be a prime target for outer territory bandits.

[galagah]

People need to realise that the Safezones themselves are a small portion of the gameworld . As the mist recedes , do you really think people will sit in safezones all the time ? or go out exploring .

That exploring and looking for more / better resources along with animal hunting is where the PvP comes in .

Also , don't forget , the mechanics aren't in yet for tribes to claim " extended " land elsewhere , which i'm guessing won't have the same safety as their " home " areas .

Tribal safezones should stay on the current areas / first area claimed.


Lets not forget , Jordi wants to cater to both sides , those that enjoy PvP anywhere , AND those that wish to be able to step into a safe area for a break from PvP when they want to without having to log off .

[Redus]

Laugh...there is no econemy nor a need for one..large tribes will have crafters of each type and not need to trade buy or sell to anyone and people like myself with a homstead can do the same lol. I have every type of tool...my junk pile...water resources and have unlocked everything needed atm and will continue to do so as i need new things....forever safe zones...an econemy....laugh

You do realise that will skill decay on you would not be able to maintain all your skills? Anyhow save zones might be here to stay, but having a save zone should be restrictive. I personally like the idea that the current area is "save" and everything behond that would not have a save zone and that area will also have some interesting things not found in the current area. Something that is also a must is that if you attack someone then for a minute or so you can be attack regardless if your in your save zone or not! This would surly fix what people call an exploit.

EDIT: We also need regional items! Certain items that can only be found in certain areas and not anywhere else! This would make trading more important.

[Zenmaster13]

Giving the playerbase 2 options: War tribe and Peace tribe -

So easy to exploit.

Peace tribes may be peace, but will always rely on the crutch of their safezones (exploit). Gives much and/or same rewards with no risk.

War tribes will simply need to have an alt account that will be a Peace totem owner. Full benefit of peace tribe, switch tribes when needed or when wanting to war, switch tribes back. Use War status to gain land, drop totem/recreate peace -> new permanent peace land not able to be taken away. Abuse Abuse Abuse.

That is NOT balance. Doesn't matter who likes what, it simply will not work and will be extensively exploited by both sides.

This is a major bit of fear-mongering right there. How many people do you think will actually invest the time and money in an alt account, just to grief and exploit? Very few people, if any at all. Just so you know, people can have alt accounts in any online game, regardless of the companies rules about it. So basically, with your fear of exploit through this method, you should not play any online game.

Safezones are not an exploit, no matter how you try to spin it.

Right now, there is almost zero risk to a ganker. The crafter is not going to win a fight with a fighter who jumps them, thus no risk. If the ganker does happen to lose, all they will lose is some items they ganked from some other crafter. Also, there is no current penalty for randomly killing other players, so what is the problem here? Not enough crafter death?

The no safe zone argument goes like this "Oh no, look at that crafter all in their safe zone, boy they make me mad being all safe. Why can't I go there and flex my pixels, and kill them for being so crafty. Don't they know the way they are playing is boring and meaningless? I'm mad, I need to teach them a lesson on how to have fun in a game MY WAY." Quite pathetic really.

[YamiOkami]

Flogging a dead horse

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_LO3mQp-Y_JY/S-hTlYdzkII/AAAAAAAABUg/jApX6MvpH9E/s1600/flogging-dead-horse.jpg

Also a quote from spiderman.

"With boredom comes great idiocy."

[joexxxz]

Safe Zone will still be going away after prelude. Sorry.

Love it, cant wait for it. lol


This. I still feel that the option to keep safe zones forever is a good and needed thing. What we need is item decay and item loss on death to keep the economy alive.

Just because u want a safe zone forever, now you trying to create unrealistic balance in game. So u want me to craft a new weapon after each hit?? Lol please get real.

[Salvadore]

This is a major bit of fear-mongering right there. How many people do you think will actually invest the time and money in an alt account, just to grief and exploit? Very few people, if any at all. Just so you know, people can have alt accounts in any online game, regardless of the companies rules about it. So basically, with your fear of exploit through this method, you should not play any online game.

It only takes 1 to abuse it. The tribe that does will not only get TWICE the benefit of yours, but they can make sure they take and secure whatever resource they want, either by sheer numbers or skill, doesnt matter. Take another warring tribes totem location, place a peace one over it as an alt, never be able to take it back. My tribe has a community alt account already specifically for mule crafts like fishing and placing homestead totems. Its benefits are already realized. I personally have 2 accounts that I plan to use as well (one was given to me).

You being naive and believing the fact that nobody will exploit it is simply mind boggling. If someone CAN do it in game, they WILL. I've seen it in every MMO i've ever played.

*Id address the rest of your post, but like Yami posted a picture of it- You can simply scroll back or read a few other threads and you'll see vast amounts of arguments addressing it already.

[Zenmaster13]

It only takes 1 to abuse it. The tribe that does will not only get TWICE the benefit of yours, but they can make sure they take and secure whatever resource they want, either by sheer numbers or skill, doesnt matter. Take another warring tribes totem location, place a peace one over it as an alt, never be able to take it back. My tribe has a community alt account already specifically for mule crafts like fishing and placing homestead totems. Its benefits are already realized. I personally have 2 accounts that I plan to use as well (one was given to me).

You being naive and believing the fact that nobody will exploit it is simply mind boggling. If someone CAN do it in game, they WILL. I've seen it in every MMO i've ever played.

*Id address the rest of your post, but like Yami posted a picture of it- You can simply scroll back or read a few other threads and you'll see vast amounts of arguments addressing it already.

Again, this is based on your own perceptions of what you and your friends do. There are many things you can do in life that are considered wrong by others. Do you have to do them? No.

I never stated that no one would exploit, but that the numbers that would, certainly do not warrant rampant fear mongering.

If players have alt accounts, it is their own choice. I have nothing against it. I don't care if you have chars in good tribes, neutral tribes, and evil tribes. It is your money to do with as you please. That is one of the great things aboput mmorpgs. You can play good/neutral/evil all in the same game if you have the time and money. However, if people are going to worry and complain about possibly percieved unethical game play by other players (when every online game allows for this), then they should probably re-examine and add new information to their narrow-minded view.

[joexxxz]

Salvadore is right, and Zenmaster13 is wrong. Thats all im going to say. Zenmaster13 you just got mad because your exploit was found. lol

[Haunt]

We have safezones now so that we can construct our homes. Once Prelude is over we are supposed to have created our own safezone, by putting up walls and such. The game is based on realism. Walls, gates, and barricades keep the bad guys out, not invisible magical zones. It would be too insane if safezones were off now. No one could get the building done they need to, I get that. But after the Prelude, you better have constructed yourself your own safezone, if not, prepare to get a beatdown.

[Zenmaster13]

Salvadore is right, and Zenmaster13 is wrong. Thats all im going to say. Zenmaster13 you just got mad because your exploit was found. lol

Is that the best argument you can put forward "you are wrong because I say so". Many years of programming experience here. I am not mad at all. What exploit are you speaking of? If you are going to discuss something, at least try to be intelligable.

[joexxxz]

Just read the previous post from mine, which is your post. I replied to that.

Ok, grrr here it go
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6074-Safe-Zones-Here-To-Stay-Beyond-Prelude?p=72468&viewfull=1#post72468

[Zenmaster13]

We have safezones now so that we can construct our homes. Once Prelude is over we are supposed to have created our own safezone, by putting up walls and such. The game is based on realism. Walls, gates, and barricades keep the bad guys out, not invisible magical zones. It would be too insane if safezones were off now. No one could get the building done they need to, I get that. But after the Prelude, you better have constructed yourself your own safezone, if not, prepare to get a beatdown.

I hear what you are saying, but you are forgetting about other plyers besides yourself. The main hole in your perception is the lack of consideration for new players after prelude. How are they supposed to get started without some kind of safe zone for building? Please don't refer to tribes or friends as defense or protection.

If this game was based on more realism (you can only go so far with realism btw), then you would not be able to go around and kill everyone in their area because in a REAL world, crimes are punished(sometimes quite severely). Right now, there is no punishment, just reward.

[Redus]

If this game was based on more realism (you can only go so far with realism btw), then you would not be able to go around and kill everyone in their area because in a REAL world, crimes are punished(sometimes quite severely). Right now, there is no punishment, just reward.

That is incorrect. You can go running around killing people in real life, but yes you get hunted down and judged. These actions are all done by other people not some sort of machine. This could easily translate to this game using KoS lists.

Anyhow I love the Wurms System. Having NPC gaurds. It works well and avoids random gankers ganking folks in the areas of the tribe.

[Mystais]

I hear what you are saying, but you are forgetting about other plyers besides yourself. The main hole in your perception is the lack of consideration for new players after prelude. How are they supposed to get started without some kind of safe zone for building? Please don't refer to tribes or friends as defense or protection.

If this game was based on more realism (you can only go so far with realism btw), then you would not be able to go around and kill everyone in their area because in a REAL world, crimes are punished(sometimes quite severely). Right now, there is no punishment, just reward.

And realistically, tribe members would not just go >poof< when logging off but would still be there doing their thing or on watch, ready to defend their tribe.

Ex. You go up against a fifty member tribe and there would be fifty tribe members there ready to defend... not waiting until 4am with only two online.

I think the safe zones simulate this... sorta.

[Zenmaster13]

That is incorrect. You can go running around killing people in real life, but yes you get hunted down and judged. These actions are all done by other people not some sort of machine. This could easily translate to this game using KoS lists.

Anyhow I love the Wurms System. Having NPC gaurds. It works well and avoids random gankers ganking folks in the areas of the tribe.

How am I wrong? You stated exactly what I did. You can go around killing people in real life, but you are severely punished for the crime. Right now there is no punishment in game.

[Haunt]

I hear what you are saying, but you are forgetting about other plyers besides yourself. The main hole in your perception is the lack of consideration for new players after prelude. How are they supposed to get started without some kind of safe zone for building? Please don't refer to tribes or friends as defense or protection.

If this game was based on more realism (you can only go so far with realism btw), then you would not be able to go around and kill everyone in their area because in a REAL world, crimes are punished(sometimes quite severely). Right now, there is no punishment, just reward.

In a Post-Apocalyptic world crimes would be punished by no one, the strong would survive. Since Xsyon is set in a world based on society and not after the Apocalypse I have to agree with you... wait, no Xsyon is based in a lawless end of the world setting.

See, that is where your logic is wrong.

I don't even know what the argument is about. The question isn't IF the safezones go away, the question is WHEN. Prelude was supposed to last about 6 to 9 months.


How am I wrong? You stated exactly what I did. You can go around killing people in real life, but you are severely punished for the crime. Right now there is no punishment in game.

If you want punishment, you have to create it yourselves. Make a band of law enforcers if you want. With no safezones you would be able to camp the bad guys and take care of them, over and over again.

[joexxxz]

I have one thing to add to this Redus. If the player is running around and killing good players, what kind of mechanism you can inforce in this cituation. What will the Real Life will have done??? Well if I saw the crime in RL, and I report it, then the perpetrator can be cut. What if no one saw the crime. Then the crime can countinue.
Same here, if let say player G1, player G2, and player B. If player B kills player G1, and player G2 saw the crime, then player G2 can give the information to tribe members. Now the player B is on wanted list. This mechanism can be coded into the game.

So how the game mechanics can see the crime. If player G2 is within visible range from crime, and facing in the direction of a crime, then the player G2 is getting the crime information and saving in a record to be shared by anyone that the player G2 is willing to share. For crime flag to be set, the Player B have to attack first/or comit crime.

This all can be done by game mechanics.

[Zenmaster13]

In a Post-Apocalyptic world crimes would be punished by no one, the strong would survive. Since Xsyon is set in a world based on society and not after the Apocalypse I have to agree with you... wait, no Xsyon is based in a lawless end of the world setting.

See, that is where your logic is wrong.

I don't even know what the argument is about. The question isn't IF the safezones go away, the question is WHEN. Prelude was supposed to last about 6 to 9 months.

My logic would be wrong if your opinion was right. It is just an opinion though. You are clinging to safe zones going away. I don't know if they will or will not go away. You are assuming that Xsyon is a lawless world. I see nothing to state if it is or is not, just guesses. If it were a real apoc., most people playing this game would already be dead, so the point is kinda moot.

Added: Haunt, I see many people like you saying that it is up to players to police the world. Many problems with this, if you open up your view. Examples: Players cannot be on 24/7, players want to play for fun, most people do not considering working as a police force in a game that you pay for as fun, never worked effectively in any game yet (even though some people have tried).

[Haunt]

My logic would be wrong if your opinion was right. It is just an opinion though. You are clinging to safe zones going away. I don't know if they will or will not go away. You are assuming that Xsyon is a lawless world. I see nothing to state if it is or is not, just guesses. If it were a real apoc., most people playing this game would already be dead, so the point is kinda moot.

Added: Haunt, I see many people like you saying that it is up to players to police the world. Many problems with this, if you open up your view. Examples: Players cannot be on 24/7, players want to play for fun, most people do not considering working as a police force in a game that you pay for as fun, never worked effectively in any game yet (even though some people have tried).

The cities are now JUNK PILES. There is nothing left but wildreness and JUNK. The people playing this game are the SURVIVORS. I will not hold a conversation with you if you are going to deny the BASIC ground PRINCIPLES of the game. Nothing I said was based on opinion. It is the APOCALYPSE. They did STATE that safezones were only for PRELUDE. In that setting, the only laws would be what the survivors decided to enforce. I guess you can call that an opinion, but it is based on logic.

We can continue this once you can come to grips on the facts I stated above.

[Zenmaster13]

The cities are now JUNK PILES. There is nothing left but wildreness and JUNK. The people playing this game are the SURVIVORS. I will not hold a conversation with you if you are going to deny the BASIC ground PRINCIPLES of the game. Nothing I said was based on opinion. It is the APOCALYPSE. They did STATE that safezones were only for PRELUDE. In that setting, the only laws would be what the survivors decided to enforce. I guess you can call that an opinion, but it is based on logic.

We can continue this once you can come to grips on the facts I stated above.

You are treating this much too seriously. I understand the game and concept, that is why I am playing, because I am aware of what it is and like it.

You are leaving out a statement made by the dev where the choice to be warring or not would be made. You can ignore this fact all you want, and clearly you keep ignoring it in every post you make.

Once you get a grip on this reality, your smugness will subside.

How you perceive this game, may not be how others perceive it. This is something you personally struggle with. Get over it. The game cannot be everything YOU want it to be and only what you want it to be.

[Jadzia]

Just because u want a safe zone forever, now you trying to create unrealistic balance in game. So u want me to craft a new weapon after each hit?? Lol please get real.

What are you talking about ? So you don't want item decay ? You want the game being flooded by items, making crafting/looting useless ?

Try to think a bit before you post something, that might help :)

And yes, I want you to craft a new weapon after each hit ! Everyone should get a normal item decay but you, that would be hilarious seeing you hitting and using a new weapon after each hit :p

[joexxxz]

Lol. I never been against item decay, but it has to have a real reason how long it should last ;)
I know Jadzia you probably want that. But someday i might see you getting something from scrap piles, outside of your area. Thats would be a joyfull moment. ;)

[Salvadore]

I don't really get what argument (if any) that Zen is trying to get at. He appears to be talking in circles and wants to argue without purpose. It is sad, however, that a huge amount of active forum posters are also as naive as he.

Joexxx and Haunt both get it, what are you missing Zen?

It will be extensively exploited whenever a player is given the ability to do so. Insert "X" value here. Giving the playerbase the ability to choose peace/war tribes is simply another "crutch" mechanic intended to pacify but creates imbalance. Doesn't matter who/how/if they implement this or not, it will still be easily circumvented. It doesnt matter how anyone "perceives" the post apocalyptic game we are playing, its what the MECHANICS of the game allow that dictates how it will be played.

Prelude/Safezones - if this game truly was intended to "evolve", waiting 6-9 months to add gates/remove safe zones is NOT IT. People are already leaving the game en masse or simply not logging in due to the "sandcastle complete - do what now?" scenario. Not addressing it VERY soon will simply fuel stagnation even more, until the game is virtually dead. We ALL want a healthy population, of all types of players, dont we?

The "new" player coming to the game - You realize that, in the current state of affairs, this is only a temporary thing IF things do not get changed/evolved/addressed asap! New players DONT get 2+ free months, PO overpowered weapons, and various other perks. Safe zones, here or gone, are completely eclipsed by these facts.

[Zenmaster13]

I don't really get what argument (if any) that Zen is trying to get at. He appears to be talking in circles and wants to argue without purpose. It is sad, however, that a huge amount of active forum posters are also as naive as he.

Joexxx and Haunt both get it, what are you missing Zen?

It will be extensively exploited whenever a player is given the ability to do so. Insert "X" value here. Giving the playerbase the ability to choose peace/war tribes is simply another "crutch" mechanic intended to pacify but creates imbalance. Doesn't matter who/how/if they implement this or not, it will still be easily circumvented. It doesnt matter how anyone "perceives" the post apocalyptic game we are playing, its what the MECHANICS of the game allow that dictates how it will be played.

Prelude/Safezones - if this game truly was intended to "evolve", waiting 6-9 months to add gates/remove safe zones is NOT IT. People are already leaving the game en masse or simply not logging in due to the "sandcastle complete - do what now?" scenario. Not addressing it VERY soon will simply fuel stagnation even more, until the game is virtually dead. We ALL want a healthy population, of all types of players, dont we?

The "new" player coming to the game - You realize that, in the current state of affairs, this is only a temporary thing IF things do not get changed/evolved/addressed asap! New players DONT get 2+ free months, PO overpowered weapons, and various other perks. Safe zones, here or gone, are completely eclipsed by these facts.

It is easy to say someone "does not get it" when their opinion is different than yours. I do get it. I get it quite easily. In fact anyone with a brain would get it.

Again, you can make any assumption you want about a player base, but until it is a proven fact, it is an assumption. Do you get that?

I have already stated that people will exploit. I have also stated that many people do not exploit. Do you get that?

Your statements about prelude and new players are opinions and assumptions at best. New players will need safe zones even more so than we do now, because all the old players will be established and skilled up. Do you get that?

If you need further clarity on anything I say, just ask. I am not narrow-minded or closed-minded to other peoples views, but I will consider them and discuss them, especially if I see a really poor, baseless, fear-mongering, or presumtious post.

[joexxxz]

Salvadore you have a really good point. Perhaps you one of those people who like to glimpse into the feature. On the other hand, certain people just like to defend their position even it make a null one.

For example: 12367853678945823678995736578 Does anyone can figure what this means?

[niccoli00]

Flogging a dead horse

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_LO3mQp-Y_JY/S-hTlYdzkII/AAAAAAAABUg/jApX6MvpH9E/s1600/flogging-dead-horse.jpg

Also a quote from spiderman.

"With boredom comes great idiocy."

Keeping with the theme.

http://i.imgur.com/s4Xbi.gif

[Dubanka]

new players wont need a safe zone if the mechanics are available to secure a town.

which is the exact same dynamic we'd have now if we didnt' have them.

step 1. secure your spot. quickly. drop your homestead, but a fence around it. Lock it. Voila, anyone without seige equipment is locked out.

If you're hell bent on having safe zone it should be a very very small radius around the totem. like 10 feet. so only a small portion of the footprint is actually 'safe'.

but yeah, dead horse...unfortunatly that rotting corpse is all we've got until we get some new meat.

[Salvadore]

Salvadore you have a really good point. Perhaps you one of those people who like to glimpse into the feature. On the other hand, certain people just like to defend their position even it make a null one.

Thanks, as shown here. I've seen it too many times in too many games. We obviously all want this to succeed, thus why we are still posting here!


new players wont need a safe zone if the mechanics are available to secure a town.

The exact point I was getting at.

[cliff]

I keep reading that it is possible to punish criminals in this game. I disagree - one death, or a hundred deaths, is not punishment.

You want to make it so the folks would accept the ability to punish criminals? Give us the ability to capture someone who has committed a crime and lock them in a cell and KEEP THEM THERE FOR MONTHS.

THAT would be punishment. As it currently stands, I'm sorry, there is no real ability to punish people for crimes and as long as they are paying customers, there never will be, because nobody will pay to sit in prison.

See, thing is, in the real world when someone gets punished for a crime, they are not then free to go commit that crime again for quite some time - possibly ever, if they are executed. It's real nice that the folks who want safe zones to go away have this fantasy whereby killing them back is a deterrent, but it is just that - fantasy. There is no criminal punishment that can be executed in a game without the criminals becoming a bunch of whiney *bleep*s.

[orious13]

See, thing is, in the real world when someone gets punished for a crime, they are not then free to go commit that crime again for quite some time - possibly ever, if they are executed. It's real nice that the folks who want safe zones to go away have this fantasy whereby killing them back is a deterrent, but it is just that - fantasy. There is no criminal punishment that can be executed in a game without the criminals becoming a bunch of whiney *bleep*s.

Yeah...that's one of the problems with making players of a game the policemen/women. The only way to make players care about being criminals or not is to put some in-immersive game mechanic in to make them stop every now and then.

However, I think that having no actual safe zones in the sense of "you can't attack because the gods say so" will probably be gone. New players will start out in Good or Neutral towns...where those players in those towns will be willing to help. Will those be safe zones? Maybe, maybe not. I seriously think the only way to really accomplish safety and hostility balance is to have an outside area with higher quality resources (including creatures/scavenging and foraging returns) and something like a 72 hour safe-zone period on totem placement with a week long cooldown on totem removal. <--don't take that 100% seriously. That or make the whole area free build and no designated totem.

[cliff]

I could live with that, it sounds like an adaptation of EvE's nullspace concept... higher risk for higher reward.

[orious13]

Dawntide (in open ....alpha) right now already has that in a medieval/fantasy setting. I just haven't played it in forever because of the fact that combat syncing is almost non-existant.

[Dubanka]

Yeah...that's one of the problems with making players of a game the policemen/women. The only way to make players care about being criminals or not is to put some in-immersive game mechanic in to make them stop every now and then.

However, I think that having no actual safe zones in the sense of "you can't attack because the gods say so" will probably be gone. New players will start out in Good or Neutral towns...where those players in those towns will be willing to help. Will those be safe zones? Maybe, maybe not. I seriously think the only way to really accomplish safety and hostility balance is to have an outside area with higher quality resources (including creatures/scavenging and foraging returns) and something like a 72 hour safe-zone period on totem placement with a week long cooldown on totem removal. <--don't take that 100% seriously. That or make the whole area free build and no designated totem.

Thats pretty reasonable...altho the temp totem cooldown thing is, while great at first blush, at a second glance pretty abuseable.

Late player behavior be channeled...if the risk/reward is out yonder, there is very little reason for players to be hanging back in the rear with the new joins...except fora few dedicated asshats, but they'll always be there (doing some type of asshattery) whether it's pvp related or not.

The problem with the game in its current state is that there is simply nothing to do, nothing to focus player attention on once they build their sand castle.

and there is no risk for pvp because gear is mostly worthless. In most games, a gearless tone is laughable...and to be gearless is to be impotent. Here, being geared is like being a midievil knight...sans horse...a lumbering object waiting to die.


Dawntide (in open ....alpha) right now already has that in a medieval/fantasy setting. I just haven't played it in forever because of the fact that combat syncing is almost non-existant.

i lasted for 15 minutes in that game a couple months back. not an example for anything positive imo.

[orious13]

i lasted for 15 minutes in that game a couple months back. not an example for anything positive imo.

lol....yeah. But they already have risk and reward and reason for pvp and gear working etc... magic. Archery maybe. Just unplayable last time I tried. That and combat is classic turn-based style.

[cliff]

That and combat is classic turn-based style.

It doesn't look turn based to me. Darkwind, now THAT'S turn based... post apocalyptic turn based vehicular combat. Crunchy.

[orious13]

It doesn't look turn based to me. Darkwind, now THAT'S turn based... post apocalyptic turn based vehicular combat. Crunchy.

I meant press 1 -0 to use a skill. It's not click attacking. It's the classic mmo activate and wait tactic. however I just loaded it back up and it's a little different now. It was auto-attack, but it isn't any more. Anyways. xsyon's combat is actually more responsive lol.