Greifers are getting bad!

[BassZ1890]

So my tribe mate told that some dbag went around our area (about 7-8 clans around us) and killed everyone outside their safe zones and then proceeded to cut down every tree, destroy every log, and remove every stump in our area! The place is now completely barren. I asked what his name was but no one got a good look :/ The most info I got was that his name started with Xyc and was really really long.

Anyway most of our neighbors are thinking about quitting :/ along with some of my tribe mates... Its not the ganking that's gay its the mutilation of land that's getting bad. I love the ability to fight anyone anywhere! But going into peoples land and destroying all their trees in the entire area is just sickening!

This game has so much potential but there are so many dbags just going around sabotaging people. And in turn its pushing people away from the game. The game already feels barren from all the people who left due to the lag in the first week. I love this game and im still going to tough it out but I really do not want this game to die because of greifers...

[Haphazard]

What you describe doesn't sound like Greifing (sic).

You have obviously never beef griefed, it sounds unfortunate that your neighbors and tribemates can't stomach actually playing the game and removing the offending player. I assume the offender did this because they were either very bored, or you all did something to piss them off. Without being able to burn down their home you are helpless to this kind of activity.

[blake378]

ive seen this happen in other areas also people just cutting down trees and removing stumps for no reason other than griefing and hazard i agree with you if they were in the area they should have just killed him but if they werent online then they couldnt. i think that they should make trees grow back because of whats happening.

[ocoma]

Gods get over it, it is not "griefing" to scorched earth the area around other tribes. This is tactically restricting those tribes access to resources. Limiting the available resources of enemy tribes makes it harder for them to complete fortifications, and limits their ability to produce weapons/tools ect. Defending and managing your own resources while limiting access to the same for your enemy is warfare 101.

Edit: Additionally this makes resources more valuable and stimulates trade.

[blake378]

griefing


1. Purposefully shooting or otherwise sabotaging your teammates in an online game.

2. In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual or individuals over and over again, or camping their corpse to prevent them from retrieving it, or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game.

3. In online gaming, someone who takes pleasure in creating grief for an opponent via various "cheap" tactics.

[ocoma]

Blake if you are suggesting that no.2 in your definition of griefing equates to denying resources to enemy tribes then by that same definition all toolcrafters are griefers to me because they limit my ability to sell my crafted tools.

Yes I know that is a bit of a stretch but it still applies.

I stand by my original post. By removing all the trees from around tribes close to our own we strengthen our own position and now have the option of selling our own wood stockpiles, which we would not have been able to do if they had easy access to wood themselves.

[orious13]

Yeah... "scorched earth" seems to be a valid form of pvp imo.

[Kinslayer]

Forestry is a feature that really needs to be brought up the list of priorities in my books.

[bodangly]

Calling this a legitimate scorched earth tactic is more than a stretch, I can't help but see it as fanboy gibberish. I'd say it was a legitimate wartime tactic if we could actually, you know, go to war. As it stands "war" is hoping you catch your enemies outside of their safe zone. People aren't destroying resources to tactically limit their enemies, they are destroying resources because they can do so with no repercussions. Half the time its one guy going around doing it. This isn't about war, its about flawed mechanics.

[boomer0901]

@Bo agreed

@Haphazard, you mentioned something that was key here, bored. If it's for a reason is one thing, on purpose wrecking a game out of boredom is most certainly a form of griefing, go do something else if you're bored, read a book, watch a movie, play another video game until this one fits your needs, but doing stuff like wrecking a game, because of a bad mechanic or boredom fits no ones needs except the selfish douch bag.


What you describe doesn't sound like Greifing (sic).

You have obviously never beef griefed, it sounds unfortunate that your neighbors and tribemates can't stomach actually playing the game and removing the offending player. I assume the offender did this because they were either very bored, or you all did something to piss them off. Without being able to burn down their home you are helpless to this kind of activity.

[AlexTaldren]

Here's my suggestion to the OP and anyone who is in a similar situation. Go out and stop him! Geez. We've had a number of people attempt to do the same thing to us, and if we notice they are planning to take every tree for themselves, we try to talk to them first, and if they don't respond we take action. The safe zones already protect any resources from outsiders, so anything outside of that border is fair game, period. And, that's how it should be.

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. If you don't want to get walked over, get out there and do something to stop them.

[vorg]

Those who say they should have protected the trees clearly need to learn to read. The first line:
So my tribe mate told that some dbag went around our area (about 7-8 clans around us) and killed everyone outside their safe zones
Crafters are not generally set up for combat. points are put into areas needed more for crafting. So unless they can get a group to outnumber the attackers by several, they don't have a chance.

[Larsa]

Here's my suggestion to the OP and anyone who is in a similar situation. Go out and stop him! Geez. We've had a number of people attempt to do the same thing to us, and if we notice they are planning to take every tree for themselves, we try to talk to them first, and if they don't respond we take action. The safe zones already protect any resources from outsiders, so anything outside of that border is fair game, period. And, that's how it should be.

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. If you don't want to get walked over, get out there and do something to stop them.Would be nice if you would also tell the OP what to do in place of only to say to do "something". And no, killing the offender is not something that helps, he will just be back 5 minutes later - or when you're not online.

[Kinslayer]

If there are 7-8 clans in the area, you think you cant defend again one "dbag"? My guild had a similar problem, so we engaged the offending tribe, and our neighbours engaged the offending tribe, and we kicked their ass all the way back to their totem. And yeh, now we know where THEY live. Can't say we've had the problem since. Theres a whole thread about it in the flame wars forum, but it may make your eyes bleed reading it, lmao.

7-8 clans should seriously grow some and just kill the "dbag", I would suggest repeatedly. Just stop whining on the forum and do something about it in game.

To remove the problem though, so it cant be a grief tactic anymore, a forestry mechanic would be good, so we can plant our own plantations for harvesting timber.

[Plague]

Just make trees re-grow faster. You can not be online 24/7 to stop those guys from cutting down your trees if they want to.

Apart from that that form of griefing is allowed in Xsyon as confirmed by guides and devs talking through guides. It is a legitimate tactis to cut down trees and terraform the place around those you want to grief.

But the world is very large so moving somewhere else unless you want to fight them is an option (just fight them back with few friends, griefers have durability of dead butterfly and tend to give up as soon as there is any kind of resistance, even verbal one)

[clangedon]

my god back to world of warcraft guys this game is not for you

[joexxxz]

Easy solution. If i cut down a tree, i should NOT, have the option to delete a log. Period. To delete a log, you only should do it on your TRIBE LAND. So if i went outside my tribe to cut down a tree. I should take that log and bring it back to the tribeland to delete. Thats a real reasonable behaviour.

Its all about balance, balance, balance.
Cutting down trees, should take alot of energy. So if the person cut down 2-3 trees right now, the bar is still at full.

[d1g1talbuddha]

Why doesn't your tribe have hunter/protectors? We have a few, and they are more then useful for this role, along with say... terraforming, logging, etc. If you end up with just crafters and no one to protect, it sounds like a failure in your recruitment, more then anything else.

[Jadzia]

Easy solution. If i cut down a tree, i should NOT, have the option to delete a log. Period. To delete a log, you only should do it on your TRIBE LAND. So if i went outside my tribe to cut down a tree. I should take that log and bring it back to the tribeland to delete. Thats a real reasonable behaviour.


Now thats a very good idea, the best one so far for this issue. Well done joe ;)

[xyberviri]

Alex and his bunch did come over to Apache and cut down all the trees around our tribe, they didn't cut them into logs and destroy them but they did cut them down so i guess that's allowed.

Thats cause Hopi is bored from what has been whispered.

the cutting to logs and destroy them is considered griefing.

Cutting down logs to stock pile the resources isn't griefing btw so if there actually using them you have no valid argument.

[AlexTaldren]

Just make trees re-grow faster. You can not be online 24/7 to stop those guys from cutting down your trees if they want to.

Apart from that that form of griefing is allowed in Xsyon as confirmed by guides and devs talking through guides. It is a legitimate tactis to cut down trees and terraform the place around those you want to grief.

But the world is very large so moving somewhere else unless you want to fight them is an option (just fight them back with few friends, griefers have durability of dead butterfly and tend to give up as soon as there is any kind of resistance, even verbal one)

Again, they aren't YOUR trees. YOUR trees are only those within your safe zone. All other trees are free game. If someone comes along, cuts down a tree outside your border, and hauls the logs back to their camp, it is theirs. Get it? You aren't entitled to everything inside your safe zone and everything just outside it as well. The same applies for junk piles, grass, and anything else that is finite. When the developers code in a tree regrowth system or allow us to plant our own trees, things will be just fine. Until then, I suggest you grow a pair and take it to this so-called "griefer."


Alex and his bunch did come over to Apache and cut down all the trees around our tribe, they didn't cut them into logs and destroy them but they did cut them down so i guess that's allowed.

Thats cause Hopi is bored from what has been whispered.

the cutting to logs and destroy them is considered griefing.

Cutting down logs to stock pile the resources isn't griefing btw so if there actually using them you have no valid argument.

Cut down all the trees? Wrong. A homesteader named Krimara cut down a single, solitary tree, which you guys promptly cut into long logs and stored away in your resource area. So, if anything, Krimara helped you out. Other than that, none of the trees in your area were logged by Hopi. We don't play that way, sorry.


Easy solution. If i cut down a tree, i should NOT, have the option to delete a log. Period. To delete a log, you only should do it on your TRIBE LAND. So if i went outside my tribe to cut down a tree. I should take that log and bring it back to the tribeland to delete. Thats a real reasonable behaviour.

Its all about balance, balance, balance.
Cutting down trees, should take alot of energy. So if the person cut down 2-3 trees right now, the bar is still at full.

Great idea.

[xyberviri]

My Mistake, i was under the impression Kimara was one of your guys since he seemed so buddy buddy with you all.
That player that poped up on the scrap pile and started terraforming wasn't one of your either right?

I just want to be clear what peeps are doing what for the big tribes.

[AlexTaldren]

My Mistake, i was under the impression Kimara was one of your guys since he seemed so buddy buddy with you all.
That player that poped up on the scrap pile and started terraforming wasn't one of your either right?

I just want to be clear what peeps are doing what for the big tribes.

Most of the homesteaders in the area of 896, 897, 936, and 937 like Hopi because we don't threaten to kill them and take their stuff. They help us because we stand up for them, plain and simple. Although, this is just another example of how we need some kind of tribe identification system for players--if to simply avoid confusion.

Also, Hopi doesn't terraform scrap piles for two reasons. 1) It's a waste of resources! 2) It's a waste of time and we consider it to be a cheap tactic.

[Dubanka]

Would be nice if you would also tell the OP what to do in place of only to say to do "something". And no, killing the offender is not something that helps, he will just be back 5 minutes later - or when you're not online.

kill the offender.
then take your friends to his house.
cut down all his trees.
Plant a homstead on his border and start digging
kill him every time he walks out of his house.

i mean jeeze...send one of yours to the hospital send to of theirs to the morgue.

i'm sorry, but at some point you have to stick up for yourself..whether that means knowing your neighbors to help fight against interlopers, huddling up to someone bigger and stronger that will benevolently protect you, hiring some mercs, or just summoning up the intestinal fortitude to go carve someone up yourself.

[Rheanon]

Anarchy is the core of this game. It is supposed to represent a post-apocalyptic era where the world is experiencing a new beginning. There is no order. There is no government. Lawlessness is rampant and criminal elements roam and pillage the land.

Given this scenario, there are no set rules for dealing with issues that arise in the course of simply living in this chaotic environment. Each individual and/or tribe must find the most effective method for dealing with a variety of situations. In the example that started this thread, some may decide to resolve the problem by repeatedly killing the character that is irritating them, others may come up with other ways to deal with the problem. There are no right or wrong answers. Everyone is free to handle it in the way that works best for them.

There is an issue with trees in particular which I feel should be addressed by the developers. That is reforestation. If this game is supposed to emulate the natural state of things, then trees should regrow after they are cut down. There should be new trees growing all over the world. They are not. Wood is a very important resource in this game. If it is finite, it kills the opportunity for character growth.

People subscribe to this game because they have expectations. They expect to be able to develop their tribal lands, make tools, etc and to do so they need wood. Restrict this resource to the point of creating no opportunities for growth and you kill the game. I suggest that the developer address this issue since it impacts greatly on the ability of the subscriber community to grow and flourish.

Finally on the issue of "safe zones"..... they are essential for the future of this game. Each player needs a safe haven to develop their skills. Other game developers have addressed this issue by providing towns, banks, etc. Xsyon is devoid of all these ammenities, as is fitting based on its theme. However, if a player is going to develop skills they need a safe zone to do it in. They need a place that they can be in when they want to just craft, roleplay or whatever without engaging in hack and slash. Tribal lands provide this and they are very important to the success of this game.

Some people may and will disagree with me on this but if safe zones are not available, the game will not be enjoyable to a lot of players. If there is 0 opportunity to grow, people will unsubscribe. Xsyon cannot succeed financially with just a handful of hardcore pvp subpscribers. I am new and am not aware of the direction planned for the game. I do know that I enjoy it the way it is now, with reforestation on my wish list.

Just my 2 cents on the subject.

[xyberviri]

- the pissed off gamer


Glade to know Ill actually cares about others opinion of him....

And he is still a pissed off gamer.

[Mewmew]

So my tribe mate told that some dbag went around our area (about 7-8 clans around us) and killed everyone outside their safe zones and then proceeded to cut down every tree, destroy every log, and remove every stump in our area! The place is now completely barren. I asked what his name was but no one got a good look :/ The most info I got was that his name started with Xyc and was really really long.

Anyway most of our neighbors are thinking about quitting :/ along with some of my tribe mates... Its not the ganking that's gay its the mutilation of land that's getting bad. I love the ability to fight anyone anywhere! But going into peoples land and destroying all their trees in the entire area is just sickening!

This game has so much potential but there are so many dbags just going around sabotaging people. And in turn its pushing people away from the game. The game already feels barren from all the people who left due to the lag in the first week. I love this game and im still going to tough it out but I really do not want this game to die because of greifers...


I have to agree with you. I thought this was a game about building and creating, turns out it's a griefers paradise. Outside my tiny plot if I try to go get any resources I am just a walking target. I can't explore without being chased. It's not the least bit fun.

I'm going to uninstall the game actually. If they ever come out with a PvE world that's actually about building - I'll be back and be a long term player. As the game is it's just not fun for me at all.

[clangedon]

Except in this game you can be banned for griefing.
lol pathetic

[Plague]

Anarchy is the core of this game. It is supposed to represent a post-apocalyptic era where the world is experiencing a new beginning. There is no order. There is no government. Lawlessness is rampant and criminal elements roam and pillage the land.



Phail. WHat you descibe is chaos and not anarchy. Do some reading before you post lies like this one. CHAOS not ANARCHY. Anarchy is on top of things, even on top of democracy and chaos is on very bottom of things.

Semantics really.

[pyrate]

Phail. WHat you descibe is chaos and not anarchy. Do some reading before you post lies like this one. CHAOS not ANARCHY. Anarchy is on top of things, even on top of democracy and chaos is on very bottom of things.

Semantics really.

First of all "Chaos" is not a form of political structure, so how it can be ranked against Anarchism and Democracy is beyond me. Second of all Anarchy can be used (and often is) to imply lawlessness. Maybe you should do some reading.

Semantics really.

[SAbbath]

Actualy Alex 2 of your guys Armand and Rhodes came over to our new tribe spot and wiped out every single tree and deleted most of them. I consider it griefing they not only affected our tribe they affected all the tribes around us. Oh you say stop them? How can we stop them when they did it after we logged out for the night. So in my book it is a form of griefing. They were also killing us if we stepped out of our protected zones.The best part of this is none of us have ever killed anyone.

[darkbladed]

We had a douche team named Huck and Bluesands pave over all the Junkpiles in zones 780-781

Whether it is greifing or not I won't debate; what I will say is that if new players (like in 780 round hill) do not have access to the basic building blokcs of play they will be turned off and leave.
Also a lot of older players may leave if they can no longer enjoy the game.

Sucks that there isn't meaningful PvP but don't ruin our playstyle because your playstyle is shit
Hopefully PVPers will have something to do besides being asses in the near future...

[silverhaze]

Answer is simple go find out what tribe he's in or what area he lives in and do the same.
If you don't know what area he lives in just start doin it everywhere til there are no trees left on the map.(then maybe with enough people without trees n bitchin maybe the devs will look at it)

Scorched earth is not a tactic unless your at war and you do it to your own area leaving nothing for the enemy if they get your land. to do scorched earth on a clan you want to stay in the area to pvp with, or to land you want to take is just stupid tactics as your taking resources from yourself.To do it just because you can, your probably dealing with a weakling irl so they come into a game reverse the roles to be the bully and feel like a man.

[Koll]

Biggest problem AND avantage of online gaming is the lack of consequences or ways to fight back at someone. Cant tell ya how many times I wanted to beat the living shit out of some people I saw in MMORPGs.

At the moment since tribal warfare is not on there isnt much you can do to exact revenge on people being dickheads. Also pvp being in its current sorry state; fighting griefers back in pvp is kinda pointless as they can run around naked with specials weapons forever and ever, and ever. But once they change this the griefing will become much more harder for them and they will most likely leave you guys alone.

On another note, I agree that you should'nt be able to "attack" or "cause damage" to other players when they are offline. So they should be way for you to protect your land and resources even when offline.

[darkbladed]

Answer is simple go find out what tribe he's in or what area he lives in and do the same.
If you don't know what area he lives in just start doin it everywhere til there are no trees left on the map.(then maybe with enough people without trees n bitchin maybe the devs will look at it)

Scorched earth is not a tactic unless your at war and you do it to your own area leaving nothing for the enemy if they get your land. to do scorched earth on a clan you want to stay in the area to pvp with, or to land you want to take is just stupid tactics as your taking resources from yourself.To do it just because you can, your probably dealing with a weakling irl so they come into a game reverse the roles to be the bully and feel like a man.

Only problem with that ar many of these players are rerolling on alternate accounts; So if they set thier alt near your town and pave your junkpiles or stump your trees doing the same back to them would actually assist them in destroying more resources nearby

Lack of resources will destroy the game; especially for new players.

[ColonelTEE3]

So my tribe mate told that some dbag went around our area (about 7-8 clans around us) and killed everyone outside their safe zones and then proceeded to cut down every tree, destroy every log, and remove every stump in our area! The place is now completely barren. I asked what his name was but no one got a good look :/ The most info I got was that his name started with Xyc and was really really long.

Anyway most of our neighbors are thinking about quitting :/ along with some of my tribe mates... Its not the ganking that's gay its the mutilation of land that's getting bad. I love the ability to fight anyone anywhere! But going into peoples land and destroying all their trees in the entire area is just sickening!

This game has so much potential but there are so many dbags just going around sabotaging people. And in turn its pushing people away from the game. The game already feels barren from all the people who left due to the lag in the first week. I love this game and im still going to tough it out but I really do not want this game to die because of greifers...

I know playing a game with real people and real conflict can be hard. Especially when you've never had to deal with anyone or anything difficult in real life.

I think instead of changing this game to suit you, however, you should try playing this (http://freeflashwebgames.com/game/21944/My-Little-Pony.htm) instead. Might be a little easier to handle

[darkbladed]

I know playing a game with real people and real conflict can be hard. Especially when you've never had to deal with anyone or anything difficult in real life.

I think instead of changing this game to suit you, however, you should try playing this (http://freeflashwebgames.com/game/21944/My-Little-Pony.htm) instead. Might be a little easier to handle

Keep being a smart-arse Colonel. When everyone leaves cause they are sick of dealing with immature griefers then who will you be able to PVP? Also thats a pretty good game.

[Jadzia]

Keep being a smart-arse Colonel. When everyone leaves cause they are sick of dealing with immature griefers then who will you be able to PVP?

Exactly. Thats why all of the open PvP games are empty. The griefers kill the game for themselves. I hope Jordi will take some measures soon, like the promised alignment penalties. Or split the server for 2 zones...please !!

[Armand]

Actualy Alex 2 of your guys Armand and Rhodes came over to our new tribe spot and wiped out every single tree and deleted most of them. I consider it griefing they not only affected our tribe they affected all the tribes around us. Oh you say stop them? How can we stop them when they did it after we logged out for the night. So in my book it is a form of griefing. They were also killing us if we stepped out of our protected zones.The best part of this is none of us have ever killed anyone.

Careful who you call a griefer, Mr Second Strike.

We stalked you guys down, killed you a few times and then leveled our woodworking (I'm up to 49, tyvm). Our own area is depleted of trees, and we are still very active players, so sue us.

[Jadzia]

We stalked you guys down, killed you a few times and then leveled our woodworking (I'm up to 49, tyvm). Our own area is depleted of trees, and we are still very active players, so sue us.
And why did you kill them, Armand ?

[aliksteel]

Easy solution. If i cut down a tree, i should NOT, have the option to delete a log. Period. To delete a log, you only should do it on your TRIBE LAND. So if i went outside my tribe to cut down a tree. I should take that log and bring it back to the tribeland to delete. Thats a real reasonable behaviour.

Its all about balance, balance, balance.
Cutting down trees, should take alot of energy. So if the person cut down 2-3 trees right now, the bar is still at full.

Like all you said Joe, And I would add it should take way more time to cut down a tree.

To everone else, Balance is not just a word for people who like pvp. Balance should work for all of the game, Not just the few!

[Armand]

And why did you kill them, Armand ?

I'll PM you the details. I'm surprised he has the audacity to complain in public.

[ColonelTEE3]

Exactly. Thats why all of the open PvP games are empty. The griefers kill the game for themselves. I hope Jordi will take some measures soon, like the promised alignment penalties. Or split the server for 2 zones...please !!

Split the server into two zones, with this low a population? Really?

[Jadzia]

Split the server into two zones, with this low a population? Really?

Yes, why not ? It would still be one server, you could trade, chat and interact with everyone.

[Sirius]

Well, if one thing is clear, it's that a lot of players want 100% total safety at all times. I have trouble imagining why they want to actually play a "massively multiplayer" game. Single-player games plus an IRC chat channel seem to be what they are after.

[ColonelTEE3]

Yes, why not ? It would still be one server, you could trade, chat and interact with everyone.

Actually never mind. I read that wrong. I thought you wanted to split the server into two servers.

[alyvia]

You know in Asherons Call they had PVP where you chose whether you wanted to fight or be be peaceful with fighting only animals. SWG had the alignment system as well. This kept those protected who didn't want to engage in fighting and those who wanted to could and they could still be in the same guilds.

Those were just two games but there were others too. So why couldn't we have that here. Those who are PVP ready had names in red so you always knew.

[Jadzia]

Well, if one thing is clear, it's that a lot of players want 100% total safety at all times. I have trouble imagining why they want to actually play a "massively multiplayer" game. Single-player games plus an IRC chat channel seem to be what they are after.
The social interactions with other players are not restricted to killing in my book :) I play MMOs to trade, fight together (against mobs), make friends, help out others and so on. If all you can do with others is to kill or to be killed then I think an FPS game would fit you better.

[Mitsarugii]

a game that has the option to full loot pvp attracts those kind of ppl unfortunately jadzia =(

[Sirius]

If all you can do with others is to kill or to be killed then I think an FPS game would fit you better.

Or an MMO that promised working PVP and actually delivered on that promise.

And, not wanting to trade for trading's sake, explore for exploration's sake, grind mobs just for the sake of grinding mobs, helping people who don't need to be helped just for fun, is not the same as not wanting to trade/explore/grind/help at all. A lot of players, myself included, are only interested in such activities when there is some kind of goal to work towards.

Saying "you have to make up your own goals because it's a sandbox" is a facile and useless response when there is nothing in the game to make worthwhile goals out of. In this game there is no competition because land and resources are endless; there are no challenges, no threats, no reasons to explore, no reasons to hunt. The allegedly harsh reality of the apocalypse actually turned out to be a safe and happy land of plenty and infinite leisure. Thus this grind is appealing only to those who enjoy grinding for grinding's sake, and people who are satisfied with having completed a grind even where there was no challenge or competition from other human beings involved.

[SAbbath]

Armand-Well since you brought it up,i guess you guys laughing about griefing Apache was not griefing? Cause i sat right there and heard you say it. We wiped out all the trees around apache and we are killing them anytime they get out of the protected zone. You your self admited it was griefing.We are not the only ones you have done this to. You have done this to others as well.You are Griefing by game definition or not.

[silverhaze]

Armand-Well since you brought it up,i guess you guys laughing about griefing Apache was not griefing? Cause i sat right there and heard you say it. We wiped out all the trees around apache and we are killing them anytime they get out of the protected zone. You your self admited it was griefing.We are not the only ones you have done this to. You have done this to others as well.You are Griefing by game definition or not.

Post the co-ords of his city i'll chop down everything within 3 miles of it i hate idiots like that

[Dubanka]

Exactly. Thats why all of the open PvP games are empty. The griefers kill the game for themselves. I hope Jordi will take some measures soon, like the promised alignment penalties. Or split the server for 2 zones...please !!

i really can't believe you're still trying to pin the games impending demise on 'griefers'.
the only griefers are the devs...and it's their ship to sync.

[Sirius]

it's their ship to sync.

pun intended?

[SAbbath]

Thats the thing Silverhaze.I really dont think it should be done to anyone,and by doing it to them it not only affects them, it affects anyone close to them. So i will leave it at that. I really have no ill will towards the hopi tribe. I was just saying they to are doing what i consider as many of you have agreed to is griefing.

[Aethaeryn]

How about turning off the ability to delete trees. If you don't want them where they are.. move them. . realism and fixes the problem :)

Question though for SAbbath: You said they chopped down the trees when everyone had "left for the night" and also said that the "2" of them killed anyone who stepped out of your tribal territory. It can't truly be both. Just looking for clarity there. (EDIT: SAbbath did explain how this worked to me and it makes sense to me)

It is obvious people are bored... .bored people = grief squads (intended or not) and grief squads + boredom = less players.

[Malivius]

It is obvious people are bored... .bored people = grief squads (intended or not) and grief squads + boredom = less players.

I've never liked this argument. Many of the people doing the griefing (not PvPing, but actual griefing) don't care what features are available. They're doing what they're doing because it's what they do. Using "I'm bored" is as good an excuse for making others miserable as it is for robbing a store or killing someone.

[Sirius]

I've never liked this argument. Many of the people doing the griefing (not PvPing, but actual griefing) don't care what features are available. They're doing what they're doing because it's what they do. Using "I'm bored" is as good an excuse for making others miserable as it is for robbing a store or killing someone.

What's your point? You don't like the boredom explanation because it doesn't apply in every single case?

[Malivius]

What's your point? You don't like the boredom explanation because it doesn't apply in every single case?

It's not exactly that. I'm willing to bet that most of the "boredom" comments are actually coming from non-griefing individuals who are trying to explain the actions of others. For those people that are griefing and using the excuse "I'm Bored", it's a cop out...

[Aethaeryn]

I've never liked this argument. Many of the people doing the griefing (not PvPing, but actual griefing) don't care what features are available. They're doing what they're doing because it's what they do. Using "I'm bored" is as good an excuse for making others miserable as it is for robbing a store or killing someone.

You are right. I should have said. . increases the number or likely hood or "typical" players displaying undesirable tendencies.

[Sirius]

It's not exactly that. I'm willing to bet that most of the "boredom" comments are actually coming from non-griefing individuals who are trying to explain the actions of others. For those people that are griefing and using the excuse "I'm Bored", it's a cop out...

So you are denying that anyone is actually going around killing other people as a result of the total lack of anything else to do in the game? And if anyone claims that's why they're doing it, they're just lying?

[Malivius]

So you are denying that anyone is actually going around killing other people as a result of the total lack of anything else to do in the game? And if anyone claims that's why they're doing it, they're just lying?

No No! Not at all. I think our source of contention at the moment is the oddly undefinable term "griefing". Going around killing other people (regardless of the motivation) to me is...PvP. On the other hand, terraforming entire junkpiles or deforesting entire zones (with the sole intent to deprive another individual of said resources), falls under the somewhat agreed upon (at least in this thread) actions of a "griefer".

PvP is good, healthy even! :)

[Armand]

Post the co-ords of his city i'll chop down everything within 3 miles of it i hate idiots like that

Cudos to you if you believe the words of a guy who left our tribe because we reported him for macroing.

[AlexTaldren]

Actualy Alex 2 of your guys Armand and Rhodes came over to our new tribe spot and wiped out every single tree and deleted most of them. I consider it griefing they not only affected our tribe they affected all the tribes around us. Oh you say stop them? How can we stop them when they did it after we logged out for the night. So in my book it is a form of griefing. They were also killing us if we stepped out of our protected zones.The best part of this is none of us have ever killed anyone.

Interesting. Did you see them delete the trees because what they probably did was cut them down, and then do some woodworking. And, the last I heard, that was considered a legitimate practice. Unless you can prove they were in fact deleted, then your accusation of griefing is void. Besides, Hopi members understand the value of wood as a resource. We wouldn't destroy the logs if we could use them.

[Sirius]

Cudos to you if you believe the words of a guy who left our tribe because we reported him for macroing.

Why wouldn't we believe the words of a guy who left your tribe because you reported him for macroing?

[mrcalhou]

No No! Not at all. I think our source of contention at the moment is the oddly undefinable term "griefing". Going around killing other people (regardless of the motivation) to me is...PvP. On the other hand, terraforming entire junkpiles or deforesting entire zones (with the sole intent to deprive another individual of said resources), falls under the somewhat agreed upon (at least in this thread) actions of a "griefer".

PvP is good, healthy even! :)

As far as I'm concerned, denying someone access to resources is a viable strategic option. Real people have been doing it in real life for millenia and in RTS games for the better part of a decade. Personally, I think it's fine to do so, just that it's currently much too easy and too quick to do so in this game.

[ColonelTEE3]

Cudos to you if you believe the words of a guy who left our tribe because we reported him for macroing.

As an outsider looking in, id be more likely to trust someone in this game who macros than someone who reported their own tribe member for macroing...

[AlexTaldren]

As an outsider looking in, id be more likely to trust someone in this game who macros than someone who reported their own tribe member for macroing...

Armand wasn't the one who actually reported him. Sabbath apparently fished his character into exhaustion over and over again until someone made a joke about it in general chat. The joke in general chat prompted a guide to teleport to Sabbath's location, verify that he was AFK, and then dump him in the lake. After that, Sabbath left the tribe voluntarily.

We in know way forced him out, nor did we ask him to leave.

[silverhaze]

Cudos to you if you believe the words of a guy who left our tribe because we reported him for macroing.

more looking for a reason to log in than anything else

[Sirius]

So in other words, he left the tribe after you reported him for macroing? I thought that was already said?

[AlexTaldren]

So in other words, he left the tribe after you reported him for macroing? I thought that was already said?

I was just clarifying for that guy. He seemed to think Armand reported Sabbath for AFK macroing, but he didn't. And, nobody whispered a guide to come get him either, so he wasn't technically "reported." He got caught, plain and simple.

[mrcalhou]

Tribe drama.

[Armand]

Tribe drama.

Whatever it takes to keep people entertained.

[Sirius]

I was just clarifying for that guy. He seemed to think Armand reported Sabbath for AFK macroing, but he didn't. And, nobody whispered a guide to come get him either, so he wasn't technically "reported." He got caught, plain and simple.

I see. I think that this confusion can be traced all the way back to an hour ago, when Armand said that Sabbath "left our tribe because we reported him for macroing".

Somehow, people took the words "left our tribe because we reported him for macroing" to mean that Sabbath left your tribe because you reported him for macroing.

Those readers who were confused by this turn of phrase must not have been paying attention to your subsequent post, in which you pointed out that your tribe members merely announced in the public channel that he was macroing. Obviously, that's not the same as reporting someone, and the guide's involvement was in no way connected to public announcement – as you said, "he got caught, plain and simple".

[Armand]

He sure thinks one of us did. I should have thrown an "allegedly" in there. Bottom line is he left the tribe with a hard on against us and now he's spreading his lies.

DO enjoy the show people, we're here all week.

[Sirius]

I wouldn't worry about using words like "allegedly" when your tribe-mate has already admitted your people were talking about it in general chat.

[Armand]

I'm hardly motivated to into the specifics. People with issues should present them in game. It'd give me something to do.

[Sirius]

If you're not concerned about it, you shouldn't feel the need to falsely deny that your tribe was responsible. Generally, people don't lie about things that they are indifferent to, because that doesn't make any sense at all.

[Rhodes]

It's true that no one reported Sabbath via the Help channel but, given the chance, I would have. He shouldn't feel special, he wouldn't be the first tribe mate I've reported for afk macroing.
I don't care if it's a tribe mate or not, if you're dumb enough to get caught using unattended macros, you deserve to get banned. None of this 3 strikes and you're out BS that the guides currently use.

Our tribe guidelines clearly state that we follow the Xsyon TOS regarding macro use (as well as Virtus comment regarding attended macro use). Members will be reported for doing it and leaving the tribe
thinking you can get away with it in a secluded location isn't reason enough for us to forget your existence. The best defense against that third strike is to just stop macroing like you should have done in the first place.

[SAbbath]

Well since you went there Armand i guess i should remind you about you yourself going to report a member for macroing when i clearly pointed out to you that Alex was macroing hiding under the waterfall and it would not be a good idea to report the other tribe member when the GUILD LEADER was afk macroing just 100ft away.
I have not told one Lie about any of this think what you will,im pretty sure any member that read my parting message both in chat and on the hopi forums can clearly see i was not in anyway blaming the tribe for the choice i made to use a mouse clicker that i had never used before at the advice of um Armand..... as he stated all the rest of them are macroing you might as well too. Now to make this perfectly clear Armand in noway ever told me to afk macro or fall asleep while macroing fishing,which is what exactly happened.

[Sirius]

See, Armand? That's how it's done: just admit it and stand firm by your convictions. No need for dishonesty.

[Armand]

If you're not concerned about it, you shouldn't feel the need to falsely deny that your tribe was responsible. Generally, people don't lie about things that they are indifferent to, because that doesn't make any sense at all.

You're absolutely right. Anytime you feel the urge to keep rambling about issues I'm indifferent to, do feel free to come see me in 896. I'll be glad to discuss them with you face to face.

I think we both realize now that forum trolling isn't the way to go, hmm?

[Sirius]

Well, the game now crashes whenever I try to login, so posting on the forums and calling out players such as yourself for their dishonesty and underhanded smear tactics is about the only thing I can currently do with my account.

[Armand]

Well, the game now crashes whenever I try to login, so posting on the forums and calling out players such as yourself for their dishonesty and underhanded smear tactics is about the only thing I can currently do with my account.

It's a shame that such a noble defender of righteousness and truth makes it his business to rack up forum infractions and get banned in his spare time.

[Sirius]

It's even more of a shame that systematically demolishing the witless and irrational forum postings of certain Hopi Tribe members leads to infractions and banning after those members complain to the mods.

That said, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I have ever received a forum infraction or been banned. My record is spotless.

[Armand]

It's even more of a shame that systematically demolishing the witless and irrational forum postings of certain Hopi Tribe members leads to infractions and banning after those members complain to the mods.

That said, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I have ever received a forum infraction or been banned. My record is spotless.

So you being banned for about a week was a figment of my imagination? Were you wrongfully convicted for being a benevolent vigilante?

[AlexTaldren]

Well since you went there Armand i guess i should remind you about you yourself going to report a member for macroing when i clearly pointed out to you that Alex was macroing hiding under the waterfall and it would not be a good idea to report the other tribe member when the GUILD LEADER was afk macroing just 100ft away.
I have not told one Lie about any of this think what you will,im pretty sure any member that read my parting message both in chat and on the hopi forums can clearly see i was not in anyway blaming the tribe for the choice i made to use a mouse clicker that i had never used before at the advice of um Armand..... as he stated all the rest of them are macroing you might as well too. Now to make this perfectly clear Armand in noway ever told me to afk macro or fall asleep while macroing fishing,which is what exactly happened.

I fell asleep.

[Sirius]

So you being banned for about a week was a figment of my imagination?

Correct. Never happened. Not sure where you got this idea.

[Armand]

Correct. Never happened. Not sure where you got this idea.


For a veteran forum warrior like yourself, a 10 day absence speaks volumes.

Look me up in game when you iron out the DirectX 4 compatibility issues. This is obviously getting us nowhere.

[Sirius]

I imagine that by this point in life you have gotten used to people just smiling and nodding in response to the nonsensical things you say...

[Armand]

I imagine that by this point in life you have gotten used to people just smiling and nodding in response to the nonsensical things you say...

Leaving us so soon? But you just got back...

[ColonelTEE3]

This is all just wonderful.