Rethink twitch if it doesn't work performance-wise

[Sirius]

If the development process leads to a dead end in which sync/lag/fps can't be properly smoothed out, consider adopting non-twitch PVP mechanics.

Non-twitch PVP system with depth and real consequences > twitch PVP that can't be given consequences because it's too random

[JCatano]

Hell no. Well, I'll agree to it as long as Jordi confirms I can get a refund if that's ever implemented.

By the way... Non-twitch means dice roll. "Random".

[jokhul]

Hell no. Well, I'll agree to it as long as Jordi confirms I can get a refund if that's ever implemented.

By the way... Non-twitch means dice roll. "Random".

You will get no refund.

MMO's change constantly, and a glimpse at the past history of some AAA games will show that radical changes do happen from time to time. Entire character classes have been removed (or added) in some games. Changes to the way systems work ingame are not unusual.

[d3m0nd0]

Yes lets make this game have turned based pvp for the three carebears that want it. Im sure the other 50 or so non-carebear, twitch pvp loving guys still stay and continue the game.

[Armand]

A complete graphical overhaul would help here as well. I propose Tibia style graphics so that we can branch out and cater to the 486/56kb crowd.

A wise business move that would be.

[d3m0nd0]

While were at it might as well, add raiding dungeons, masses of instances, put pvp into instances called battlegrounds, and make the loot system tier'd and static. And then call it World of Warcraft.

Xsyon is Xsyon. It will be, what it is, And No more.

[Kropos]

Erm....what exactly is twitch and non-twitch pvp??

[d3m0nd0]

Twitch, basically means you have to aim, and time skills, like in a 3rd person/first person shooter.
The alternative being turn based, like FF series, or Traditional tab fix'd target mmo. Where you click and a person and hit and miss's are decided witha dice roll instead of actually aiming.
People believe that the turnbased style, reduces the amount of skill ingame, this is because everything is controlled by dice rolls, which can usually either be increased by talent trees/gear/skills trained/weapons/other factors that are simply grinded for.
This often ends up making the game balanced to "who ever grinds the most, WINS!".
Twitch is the opposite, or rather, SHOULD be the opposite, requiring the player to manually aim, and critical dmg/hitbots dmg, dodging blows, is down the the players reaction time and his positioning. The problem with Twitch Pvp, its affected heavily, by things such as lag, and cheats. Such as aimbots/speedhacks. What people in this game are mainly complaining about is the Lag. As it makes it impossible to hit someone with good timing, dodging hits with timing etc. And often ends up as a button mash fest.

The Solution? Clever, and Innovative Programming. Who has the Solution? Bill Gates. But he keeps it for personal use only.

[Belchonok]

Xsyon is Xsyon. It will be, what it is, And No more.

Bugged , laggy , boring piece of broken promises? Way to go.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

In SWG the automatic targeting did less damage than a person who was clicking on you manually.

[KeithStone]

twitch combat is not the problem, they'll get it worked out- it's just a matter of time.

[Sirius]

Yes lets make this game have turned based pvp for the three carebears that want it. Im sure the other 50 or so non-carebear, twitch pvp loving guys still stay and continue the game.

I'm not saying they should just ditch twich. But if they can't get it to work,* and they have to either ditch twitch, or just keep twitch but make PVP utterly meaningless, the former > the latter.

Carebear = no-consequences PVP, or no PVP at all
Broken twitch PVP that is so random that the devs have to keep sieging off and safe zones on = crappy carebear twitch PVP, probably enjoyable only by ppl who suck at shooters :P

But, by all means, twitch > non-twitch if they can get twitch working..

*Note: it's not crazy to suggest they may never be able to get the performance to support twitch in the live gameplay environment, which is very complex and gives players the ability to drastically alter the game-world in real time, presenting serious technical challenges that are possibly insurmountable given the time and resources available to NG.


A complete graphical overhaul would help here as well. I propose Tibia style graphics so that we can branch out and cater to the 486/56kb crowd.

Again, people with very high-end systems are having the same sync problems in some geographical areas of the game. But, since you seem to want to continue a debate you've already lost, I've used my sig to commemorate your hopeless inability to reach logical conclusions. See below, friend.

[d3m0nd0]

So your saying Random Twitch Pvp, vs A system that uses DICE Rolls. Last time i checked, unless the dice are loaded.... there pretty damn random too.

[Sirius]

Having a random component to the mechanics (hitrolls) >> total randomness of outcome because the system is buggy and doesn't work

[NexAnima]

Or instead of creating an entire new system...they could just fix the problems...

[d3m0nd0]

Its the same thing. You click a button and you either hit or miss, and theres no way in which you can alter the outcome. The Method is different, but its the same outcome. The only difference is eventually Twitch Pvp will work,
like it does in DF and Various Hack and Slash Titles, Or the game would fail before they could make a whole new combat system, seriously they wont have time to implement a turnbased system now. This is a Twitch pvp game, Sorry if you dont like it/suck at it. Deal with it.

[JCatano]

You will get no refund.

MMO's change constantly, and a glimpse at the past history of some AAA games will show that radical changes do happen from time to time. Entire character classes have been removed (or added) in some games. Changes to the way systems work ingame are not unusual.

I know of two who have gotten refunds in the past week. Xsyon may hold the record for refund-giving.

Really? MMO's change? Who woulda thunk!

Think you completely missed the point of my post.

[Sirius]

This is a Twitch pvp game, Sorry if you dont like it/suck at it. Deal with it.

Yes, my intense dislike for twitch is the reason I said twitch > non-twitch. In fact, it's why I bought this twitch-PVP game! You're a regular Sherlock Holmes.

[Armand]

I understand and agree with OP.
Twitch > Click and run
Broken Twitch < Click and run

To argue using statements of future events is silly.

While I agree with that 100%, I feel the development team should be given the benefit of the doubt. Their patching efforts have been less than spectacular, but they have been consistent in making their improvements. After the next few hurdles are past, we should at least be left with a playable game. We've been told numerous times that the current form of combat will be totally revamped, and I personally am banking on that.

[dp3298]

I understand and agree with OP.
Twitch > Click and run
Broken Twitch < Click and run

To argue using statements of future events is silly.

Add:

I hope they do get twitch based pvp working as it was reason #2 for me to play this game. Im simply stating (as I believe the OP was stating) that if the developer realizes he cannot add twitch based pvp correctly, that he choose a tried and true method rather then ignoring it.

[meissner61]

I Think you guys are a bit over-reacting, Theres a few twitch based games out there today - MO< fallen earth, the latter having quite a large player base. They were able to work out their problems even if it did take MO Forever. The point is im pretty sure these professionals who understand servers and computer programming didn't choose a system they don't think they can tackle. Just give em some fricken time.

[mrcalhou]

I'll be the first to bash this game for design problems, but at some point you just have to realize that there's only so much two-three programmers can do in a day. I'm not a code-monkey (or whatever programmers call themselves jokingly), but I've seen code and it looks like a pain to sift through.

[dp3298]

Exactly, regardless if he agrees or disagrees with OP. This statement is the exact reason I feel that the dev may have bit off more then he could chew. If he can pull if off, great! Id understand either way.

[xyberviri]

Theres a few twitch based games out there today - MO< fallen earth, the latter having quite a large player base.

Actually i just left the later(FE) and the player base is dieing over there. the problem is that in pvp you have overpowered builds/abilities, in pvp theres only like 50 players left. So most of that game is pve stuff now. thats not really a major issue here, when i hit bears they usually are there. but they also suddenly teleport and are on top of you, when the pop though i can hit them.

how ever when you can actually aim and pullt he trigger you do hit them, you dont hit mid air, if your on target you hit your target.

the problem here is the desync issue with players that have bad connections. you hit them and there not really there, heck if they stop moving you probally are going to be dead once you see them start moving again. Last night i had players laying down next to me and they were in the next zone over, how ever i was synced with the server.

We also have issues with players that have high ping connections, if your sitting at 1-5k ping for more than 15 seconds you should be disconnected. but no the server keeps you connected and that creates a unfair advantage, its called a lag switch in WoW, you can even make a physical using a real light switch and a hacked ethernet cable. Maybe if we disconnected players that are sitting on a high ping/heartbeat/checkin then some of those bit lag spikes we have would go away.

[r4NGe]

Slow combat down.

Yes, fast is better but slower is easier on the server. Reduce run speed (side effect of making the world bigger, for better or worse). Then mount and blade this shit.

[Sirius]

the problem here is the desync issue with players that have bad connections

Pretty sure it has nothing to do with player connection speed. It's a problem with the server.

[blackzilla]

In SWG the automatic targeting did less damage than a person who was clicking on you manually.

lmao. This made my day...I hope this was a joke?

[xyberviri]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2127/1747917718_7d941b5441.jpg