xsyon has it become a ghost town?

[STAR_GOD]

So when was last time you saw more then 4 people around in same zone? It seems not only animals are becoming hard to track down but also players... whats going on? I am wondering how many peolpe are playing ^^..

You see soo many totems everywhere but all areas are just filled with emptiness and silence its like pandemic has broken out and wiped everyone off the face of xsyon loool...

[NexAnima]

Seems like we are all waiting for more to come.

[Jadzia]

So when was last time you saw more then 4 people around in same zone? It seems not only animals are becoming hard to track down but also players... whats going on? I am wondering how many peolpe are playing ^^..


Today. There are always players online in my zone. See this happens when you bug your neighbours too much....they move and you feel bored and lonely. Lol. Learn to be nice ? :p

[Larsa]

Today. There are always players online in my zone. See this happens when you bug your neighbours too much....they move and you feel bored and lonely. Lol. Learn to be nice ? :pTo be honest, to me it seems that there really are fewer people playing, and in our zone it has little to do with PvP.

We settle in zone 777 and there are few excessive PK-ers around but still people play less. There are quite some abandoned homesteads from people who have practically left the game. I believe there's no doubt that the playing population has declined (also evident by the number of people on the forums).

Personally, I believe it has to do with the string of technical problems we had since the first launch. Additionally, and in my opinion, it's far too easy for even one or two dedicated players to build up their place and get everything they need. There's too much junk, too many resources, it's too easy to learn recipes, too easy to get to high skill levels, there's little reason to explore, to travel and to trade. Thus people think there's nothing left to do.

[orious13]

saw 5-6 people 500 meters from my home today and I live in no-man's-land. Ran to the 73X etc areas and saw no one, but there are large tribe areas there. Large tribes burning through content real fast compared to solo or small tribe.

[Armand]

Zone switch lag, low animal population, short sighted crafting system & no new content... can't blame 'em.

Working on major projects is keeping our tribe busy, but I pray something comes up soon.

[Mizzlexx]

I took a walk around the other night went all the way from 938 to the 700s ish walked around for hours. I saw lot of construction going on an totems everywhere but the entire time I was out i ran into absolutely no people.

It is odd, because it wasn't at peak time sure but it was only around 8:30 CST not very late in other-words. Still the pop sure has taken a hit, a couple weeks ago I had done the same thing and found dozens of people in my adventures.

[Xidian]

My tribe has about 6 people on in peek hours and 3 in all other hours, there are quiet a few people on during peak hours. My tribe has been pretty busy with building our walls and such. After that I think I'll focus on my own crafts besides Architecture like basketry and LW. After that I might get a little bored, but I might move on to other crafts.

[AlexTaldren]

With the lag being terrible when traveling between zones I think a lot of people are staying home. I know we haven't been leaving our area lately because of it.

[santoclawz]

4 out of the 4 people i got to play dont play anymore...

[Xidian]

With the lag being terrible when traveling between zones I think a lot of people are staying home. I know we haven't been leaving our area lately because of it.

Yeah, we live right on the border of a zone, and it becomes impossible to move logs inbetween our log pile and our camp.

[fatboy21007]

i went roaming tonight. seen around 7 players. But then again where i live is generally active. But i beleave all tribes taken a hit. i went from 20 active all hours of the day down to 2-6 active a day and 15 at odd hours throughout the week. So i hope things get fixed soon.

[grimben]

I would say we lost about a third of our members due to the Launch fiasco. After that, they slowly bled away until I think we may have 1 or 2 people logging in every once in a while to work on stuff.

Most of our tribe has moved on due to 2 main factors:

1. Crafting is incredibly painful. After a couple hours of dragging, clicking, selecting, clicking etc etc etc my wrist and hand are screaming at me to stop and find something (ANYTHING) else to do.

2. There is nothing to do but Craft (see #1). There are no mobs and no meaningful PvP. What little PvP there is is ruined by stupid looting bugs (bag permissions and the water exploit), and a crappy combat system.

Fix these things and people may return. Without something to do besides the painful crafting system, this game is not worth playing for free. If these things are not fixed before our preorder time is done I think Xsyon will change from a ghost town to a huge empty graveyard.

[YamiOkami]

I log in now and then, but am just waiting for Xsyon to start going.

Not dissapointed with the game or anything though, i just dont want to burn through everything to do.

As for less people on the forums, I imagine it is half people not playing the game and three quarters the fact that nearly all the threads on the forums are whiners/trolls/flamers/doomsayers etc.

I read possibly one thread a day, sometimes not even that.

[ayhanket]

The reason you can't see people in game is PvP.

It is broken to hell and not fun to kill or be killed now.

I been killed while i couldn't fight back. Because i was laughing.

Things in game now are for construction, but i see people try to play this game as a PvP game now.

Go try something else (there are many games with meaningful PvP), let people who understand "PvP sucks now" to play. And next time you come you'll see more people.

[xaradt]

My hubbie and myself wont be bothering to play until there's something for us to actually do that doesnt give us RSI. If that doesn't happen until after the free time is up, we wont be resubbing.

[grimben]

Go try something else (there are many games with meaningful PvP), let people who understand "PvP sucks now" to play. And next time you come you'll see more people.

This is horrible advice for any game. Most people that leave a game (myself included) to "try something else" never come back.

I really like Xsyon and think it could become something great. I just hope there is someone left here to notice when that happens.

[furanku]

I've been on every single day expect for days here and there where I was busy with other things. (maybe 3 or so days since launch) and I've seen 904 and 864 go from extremely active daily local chat to .. well chatting here and there to... ha.. well this nothing. I logged on last night for most of the night while I was doing work and from 11am to 5am nothing.. no chatter nor did I see anyone.

So to me at least my in area it is already a ghost town, its like those days when you don't want to get dressed and lay down naked all day well thats how I feel when I log on to Xsyon.

[coca]

I dont see anyone in 699 anymore.

I see a LOT of big tribe areas that are completely terraformed just sitting now. Most have even taken down their totems.

We need some MOBS to fight until the pvp system is fixed.

Added after 6 minutes:

i forgot to metntion out of around 20 members we currently have 3 playing.. the other guys have moved on

[furanku]

I dont see anyone in 699 anymore.

I see a LOT of big tribe areas that are completely terraformed just sitting now. Most have even taken down their totems.

We need some MOBS to fight until the pvp system is fixed.

Added after 6 minutes:

i forgot to metntion out of around 20 members we currently have 3 playing.. the other guys have moved on

hugs I know the feeling I had over 30 peope in beta and I found out after launch all 23 people quit :( and got refunds.

[STAR_GOD]

Wow talk about huge response ^^.. This is intresting to know... xsyon claims there are around 200 people online at most times and they have taken hit in numbers since launch but things are going good.. I really hope they fix pvp frame and lag issues so at least we get our pvpers back in game and do soemthing else appart of terraforming..

keep these comments comming people

[outfctrl]

I havent logged on for about 2 weeks now. I get frustrated and bored, between the lag, constant clicking and poor UI.
I am sure my tribe is wondering where I am at. It just doesn't seem fun. The graphics and animations are very dated and are not up to par with the times.

I really dont think I will subscribe once my free time runs out.
Oh, and the massive patches that take forever to download frustrates me also.
Maybe I will come back after a few months or a year and see if the game improved, but at this rate, to put it simply, It's not fun to play.

[notintime]

It's very simple, most of ppl finished building their homestands, castles, villiges, etc, or died at the keyboard from grinding crafts ;) There is really nothing else to do in game. And if you are in a big tribe that means there is even less to do.
Crafting? mostly pointless, all you need is baskets, and tools(if ya have somebody in tribe to take basketry and somebody to take toolcrafting then you are set).
Trading is nonexisted tbh, there is a lot of everythign everywhere, beside few rare scavengable items.
And im not even gonna start with pvp or hunting ;)

I am in 15 ppl tribe where actually only around 4-5 are really active, 5 log in from time to time and rest probably wont enter xsyon ever again. And maybe its good cos if all members were active we would already finish our little "castle" we are building and probably all left the game.
Its supouse to be a survival type game? That brings stupid smile to my face when i look at my tribe camp and i wonder where we will squizze another basket ;P.
2 weeks after release and semi active, average tribe like mine have tons of stuff and im not sure what exacly do with it, hundrets of weapons, tools, scavengable stuff etc.
Survival? My char lives in luxury ;)

Crafting is terribly boring and and seems not rewarding, fighting is basically in alpha stage, so when you will finish building your ingame "home" you basically reached the current prelude "endgame"content(many ppl already did).
Thats why its becoming so empty.
And dont forget about all those ppl who only bought this game for pvp, i bet most of them already forgot what xsyon is.

I knew that due to small dev team with limited founds and slow development the playerbase will be decreasing slowly but i didnt expected whats happening now. Maybe im exaggerating but if devs wont speed up on adding content to the game or fixing some stuff at least than by the end of free 2 months there will be no more than 50 ppl still playing this game.

[Sirius]

I've seen zone 700 go from very active /general chat to total silence. Last night I went looking for someone to kill and wound up committing suicide in the green mist after about an hour, having not found a single player.

As depressing as that is, some of the responses in this thread boggle the mind.




As for less people on the forums, I imagine it is half people not playing the game and three quarters the fact that nearly all the threads on the forums are whiners/trolls/flamers/doomsayers etc.



The reason you can't see people in game is PvP. Go try something else (there are many games with meaningful PvP), let people who understand "PvP sucks now" to play. And next time you come you'll see more people.

News flash, kids: people aren't quitting because of mean ole PVPers and criticism on the forums. They're quitting because of the reasons you're seeing criticism on the forums. There's nothing to do in this game at present, and many of the things that are in-game are broken. After insisting on "launching" the game before it was ready, the devs now have very little time left to impress the remainder of the playerbase into staying.

[darkbladed]

my tribe has about 4 very actives and maybe 3-4 semi actives and the other 22 are away at the moment. But my area has a nice group of allied tribes (all have been hit by lowering numbers) but still a nice population overall if you get to know your neighbors. We dont take kindly to pk greifers so beware; we actually have a group that patrols the area for us led by Blackzilla that keeps most of the riffraff away.



News flash, kids: people aren't quitting because of mean ole PVPers and criticism on the forums. They're quitting because of the reasons you're seeing criticism on the forums. There's nothing to do in this game at present, and many of the things that are in-game are broken. After insisting on "launching" the game before it was ready, the devs now have very little time left to impress the remainder of the playerbase into staying.

Yeah but where is this lack of content you are talking about?
Has your tribe gotten all the architectural recipes (24 i beleive)?
Has your tribe built its sprawling metropolis (80 bricks and 20 mortar per 10ft wall section)?
Has your tribe stockpiled enough resources for once the content starts flowing?
Has your tribe taken part in a tribe-wide huge terraforming project?
Or are you just mad that there are not enough people actively PVPing?

I agree combat, decay, and all things that will make PVP work needs to be fixed.
And weird load time issues and bugs need to be too.
But there is still plenty of stuff to do; even if you hardcore rushed the content I'm sure your city doesn't look as good as some of the amazing works of art ive seen.

[Hellaciouss]

Well combined with new things coming out too slow, animals not being fixed, lag between zones, bad combat, and having to completely disband your tribe to upgrade totem (just to name a few)...me and my friends can't find the motivation to log in. We'll check back in a couple weeks to see how it's going.

[Sirius]

my tribe has about 4 very actives and maybe 3-4 semi actives and the other 22 are away at the moment. But my area has a nice group of allied tribes (all have been hit by lowering numbers) but still a nice population overall if you get to know your neighbors. We dont take kindly to pk greifers so beware; we actually have a group that patrols the area for us led by Blackzilla that keeps most of the riffraff away.

Zone and coords please?




(responses in bold)

Yeah but where is this lack of content you are talking about?
Has your tribe gotten all the architectural recipes (24 i beleive)? Are you kidding? No. Boring.
Has your tribe built its sprawling metropolis (80 bricks and 20 mortar per 10ft wall section)? Yes
Has your tribe stockpiled enough resources for once the content starts flowing? Yes
Has your tribe taken part in a tribe-wide huge terraforming project? Yes and since there was nothing else to do, that helped bore people into quitting
Or are you just mad that there are not enough people actively PVPing? Did you misread my post? I can't even find people in-game and the pvp is broken so it matters little whether people are participating in it "actively

I agree combat, decay, and all things that will make PVP work needs to be fixed.
And weird load time issues and bugs need to be too.
But there is still plenty of stuff to do (like what?); even if you hardcore rushed the content I'm sure your city doesn't look as good as some of the amazing works of art ive seen. (it looks great, but there is still nothing to do)

[Delvie]

Yeah, we live right on the border of a zone, and it becomes impossible to move logs inbetween our log pile and our camp.

Hehe, we live in a corner, thankfully the four zones involved are not heavily populated. Basically we've gotten good at planning our efforts but it definitely bites into your play time to travel much of anywhere.

[Drevar]

In our area I see the same folks every night. Spent the last few peaceful days (our PK fiend neighbors haven't been on in a while) crafting and stocking up and trading. Even did some roadbuilding, fun! Best time I've had actually, without the jerks trying to gank me at every turn. I did die once but was way out of my area; totally different people in local chat. Was travelling and working on woodworking (got to 100!) as all our local trees have been butchered. I don't blame the guys, as I was a total stranger in thier area. It was a long run back, so free ticket home FTW!

As a solo homesteader, the last few days have been great for me. No complaints except for the load times and zoning lag.

YMMV

[Cracky69]

I haven't played since the maps were posted.

I had wanted an exploring game but the community wrecked it by effectively hacking the map data.

That and all the Macroing.


I actually liked the game - pity.

Now I'm back playing Civilisation IV again.

[Roxout]

I haven't played since the maps were posted.

I had wanted an exploring game but the community wrecked it by effectively hacking the map data.

That and all the Macroing.


I actually liked the game - pity.

Now I'm back playing Civilisation IV again.

There are shit loads of reasons to quit playing, but these are some of the lamest I've seen. LOL.

[Yuyito]

I havent logged on for about 2 weeks now. I get frustrated and bored, between the lag, constant clicking and poor UI.
I am sure my tribe is wondering where I am at. It just doesn't seem fun. The graphics and animations are very dated and are not up to par with the times.

I really dont think I will subscribe once my free time runs out.
Oh, and the massive patches that take forever to download frustrates me also.
Maybe I will come back after a few months or a year and see if the game improved, but at this rate, to put it simply, It's not fun to play.

I am on the same boat. Game is just not fun hence very little motivation to log in. I won't be subbing after free time runs out. I'll come back and take a look in a year or so and see if it has improved...

[Dirt]

I live up in the hills and have seen people twice here since latest landgrab. This is probably good because i and my many many accounts have been doing terrible things.
No lag up here, i assume because of low pop.. Went down to lake valley a couple times and it was like walking into whatever town that was in warcraft years ago where lag is bad, buggers a guy all up, cant hardly move or nothin. Oh, and theres a freakin tonne of junk up here, but stay away because its mine. So is the tar. Many bear heads in my basket. No one around, i kind of like it.

[xyberviri]

Yeah, we live right on the border of a zone, and it becomes impossible to move logs inbetween our log pile and our camp.

We live on the border of 4 zones. imagine what happens when moving around the city :p

[Delvie]

I live up in the hills and have seen people twice here since latest landgrab. This is probably good because i and my many many accounts have been doing terrible things.
No lag up here, i assume because of low pop.. Went down to lake valley a couple times and it was like walking into whatever town that was in warcraft years ago where lag is bad, buggers a guy all up, cant hardly move or nothin. Oh, and theres a freakin tonne of junk up here, but stay away because its mine. So is the tar. Many bear heads in my basket. No one around, i kind of like it.

We also live in the hills, manage to kill an animal every day. For some reason racoons are scarce up here but bears are plentiful. I want the ability to hang stuff on walls - all our animal heads would make nice decorations, and give me a reason to build walls. Where we are located is not a great defensive location (because of cliffs around us) but except for the junk pile is not a highly desireable location, so figure we would concentrate on other stuff for now.

In the area around us it's busy with chat every night. There again lots of homesteads and small clans moving in from other areas. We've had our share of folks disappear in our area, some due to burn out and some due to tribal politics. Actually pretty surprising to me we've also had quite a few brand new players in the area in the last week. I think the game is just going through a natural shakeout as folks determine if it's for them or not.

[blackzilla]

My zone is dead now too.

[xyberviri]

retention rate for most MMO's is only 20% btw. if we had 500 players join at launch only 100 of them will be here now, thats even with a initial trial period.

[Dirt]

I dont get alot of chat in my zone really, theres a tribe somewhere around me, could be i've/ignored a bunch of them. If you have a shovel you can wall yourself in at base of cliffrock, but i suppose that might limit your size. I would like to be able to hang heads on posts for decoration.

[Yuriohs]

I'm a new player, been only playing for a few days, but I've ran into atleast 5 different people. But to be honest, I don't know how Xsyon is advertising. I found this game out because to me it seems like a decent enough sand box game that I can build mess in.

I mean you show this to anyone who's played minecraft, and they will flip squares over.

[Sirius]

retention rate for most MMO's is only 20% btw. if we had 500 players join at launch only 100 of them will be here now, thats even with a initial trial period.

Let's hope those aren't the actual numbers, because that would be $1500/month in subscription fees, which is roughly what someone making minimum wage earns (before taxes) and roughly equal to the U.S. poverty line for a family of 3.

[jumpshot]

This is why those of us that like to fight should pick an area and move to it. That way at least part of the game will seem populated and we will be able to find fights without crossing 15+ zones.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6289-What-zone-has-the-most-people-who-want-to-fight

[AlexTaldren]

It's very simple, most of ppl finished building their homestands, castles, villiges, etc, or died at the keyboard from grinding crafts ;) There is really nothing else to do in game. And if you are in a big tribe that means there is even less to do.
Crafting? mostly pointless, all you need is baskets, and tools(if ya have somebody in tribe to take basketry and somebody to take toolcrafting then you are set).
Trading is nonexisted tbh, there is a lot of everythign everywhere, beside few rare scavengable items.
And im not even gonna start with pvp or hunting ;)

I am in 15 ppl tribe where actually only around 4-5 are really active, 5 log in from time to time and rest probably wont enter xsyon ever again. And maybe its good cos if all members were active we would already finish our little "castle" we are building and probably all left the game.
Its supouse to be a survival type game? That brings stupid smile to my face when i look at my tribe camp and i wonder where we will squizze another basket ;P.
2 weeks after release and semi active, average tribe like mine have tons of stuff and im not sure what exacly do with it, hundrets of weapons, tools, scavengable stuff etc.
Survival? My char lives in luxury ;)

Well, I can't speak for all the other big tribes out there, but we have actually managed to keep ourselves rather busy, even with the latest zone lag issues. Basically, we come up with large-scale projects that require a lot of man power to do. If everyone in your tribe is crafting separately and just grinding their skills, then things will get boring fast. The key is for the tribe's leadership to motivate their members and give them something to work toward. Of course, our active members number has taken a hit, but considering our size, it doesn't impact us as much as other tribes for sure.

We all knew Prelude was going to be a building/crafting period, and that it would last for a while (months). Honestly, people who leave now without getting a refund are jumping the gun. If you have the free two months, I'd just continue playing until the end of it to get my money's worth, which I'm sure is what sensible people who place value on their money are doing.

[STAR_GOD]

Let's hope those aren't the actual numbers, because that would be $1500/month in subscription fees, which is roughly what someone making minimum wage earns (before taxes) and roughly equal to the U.S. poverty line for a family of 3.

that is actualy scary thought that dont cover game expenses nor other ones

[Sirius]

This is why those of us that like to fight should pick an area and move to it. That way at least part of the game will seem populated and we will be able to find fights without crossing 15+ zones.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6289-What-zone-has-the-most-people-who-want-to-fight

Zone 700.

Bring it.

We're moved too much dirt to start all over <3

[STAR_GOD]

Zone 700.

Bring it.

We're moved too much dirt to start all over <3


Everyone move to 904!

[Sorakin]

Yea, maybe we will have to just all move to the same area to force conflicts... but that seems sort of lame. My tribe has a handful of people still waiting for specific features to be implemented, or lag/framerate issues to be resolved. But so far I've been fairly happy leveling up random crafts or a few random pvp fights in my area. Sometimes it does feel like a ghost town though... maybe if they beefed up bears we would be forced to create large town areas for mutual protection from the bears :P Instead of any Tom Dick and Harry able to slaughter bears on a whim. Take a trip to your local zoo and see how you fare against a bear with just a baseball bat.

[Jadzia]

Let's hope those aren't the actual numbers, because that would be $1500/month in subscription fees, which is roughly what someone making minimum wage earns (before taxes) and roughly equal to the U.S. poverty line for a family of 3.

Virtus said that there were 2k+ subscribers in December, and a lot of people joined in February. So the number of subscribers most likely was around 3-5k by launch or even more.

[STAR_GOD]

Virtus said that there were 2k+ subscribers in December, and a lot of people joined in February. So the number of subscribers most likely was around 3-5k by launch or even more.

true taht was around that time now u have around 300 active subscrubers that doesnt account inactive

[xyberviri]

allot of people have active subs but aren't playing because of the lag and issues in pvp. thats specifically from first hand what players have told me or have told me there about to do.

[Jadzia]

true taht was around that time now u have around 300 active subscrubers that doesnt account inactive

Lol ok and where is this info coming from ? virtus, Jordi, IRC or what ?

[Sirius]

Lol ok and where is this info coming from ? virtus, Jordi, IRC or what ?

The forums are dead. General chat is dead. My tribe chat is dead. People everywhere are saying their whole tribe is dead.

You got a better estimate?

[Jadzia]

The forums are dead. General chat is dead. My tribe chat is dead. People everywhere are saying their whole tribe is dead.

You got a better estimate?

Forum is not an indicator when the game is live.

The general chat is very alive where I'm settled. Tribes are active as well I see them daily. I'm sure there are people who left but that happens with every single MMO after launch.

He said a number, he made it sound like he got an insider information, so I'd like to know where did it come from. If it was only a guess then its better to say so, otherwise it may mislead people.

[Sorakin]

The forums are dead. General chat is dead. My tribe chat is dead. People everywhere are saying their whole tribe is dead.

You got a better estimate?

I remember back at the "2nd launch" the 18th of March there was typically 400-500 people browsing the forums, now it's only 150-200. Granted the game was fairly unplayable so more people might have been on the boards than in the game, but as an estimate that would be 60% of people quitting.

"Most users ever online was 699, 02-18-2011 at 03:47 PM."

[Sirius]

The general chat is very alive where I'm settled. Tribes are active as well I see them daily.

What zone is that?

[Jadzia]

No thanks, I don't want to invite bored PKers there.

[Sirius]

Eh, it's probably a 60 minute hike anyway... don't be such a nervous nellie. Not like you couldn't use the excitement.

[Ven_Jance]

I belong to one of the "bigger" nomadic tribes- at launch we looked to have 60-70 people? We have less than a handful logging in now.

Heard DHoV left already

I have logged in twice and based on our forum activity- which was VERY active, this game was THRIVING in Feb was those anxious, ready and waiting through several failed launches.

When I paid and got ready for launch, I did so with information that there would be an update- feature wise from what existed in Jan/Feb- like "20 new species" of animals.

So besides the horrific lag, lack of features, poor mechanics that encourage macroing, horrible PvP and ridiculous, vague one paragraph updates from the dev that you all eat up to keep you going to the next week - can't see where any upside is currently

I would file this game done and over, actually spiraling down the drain currently, the niche has gotten even tinier- down to those who don't care bout playing in a vast empty world.

End of this month will be my litmus test about continuing, good luck all

[notintime]

If everyone in your tribe is crafting separately and just grinding their skills, then things will get boring fast.

Actually we try to mix it, we work together on building our small castle but everybody takes break from time to time to do some crafting, hunting or whatever they wanna do(not many things to pick from).


The key is for the tribe's leadership to motivate their members and give them something to work toward.

Hmmm... I always thought its a game developers job to keep players interested in game, especially if you paid for the game.
But ok, lets say its community job to keep each other motivated to keep playing ;)
How to motivate?


Basically, we come up with large-scale projects that require a lot of man power to do.

Nice. Unfortunatelly thats the only thing you can do, order to build a Minas Tirith for example ;)
And that exacly sums up what i said in my original post. Only thing that is actually interesting and works correctly(more or less) in this game is terraforming/building. But how long you can do that?
Well look at irc, forums or local chat in game. It seems for me that the numbers are dropping really fast, too fast :( And it has been how long? 3 weeks from release?

[AlexTaldren]

Hmmm... I always thought its a game developers job to keep players interested in game, especially if you paid for the game.
But ok, lets say its community job to keep each other motivated to keep playing ;)
How to motivate?

Not in an open-world, sandbox game, at least, it isn't entirely up to game developers. They shouldn't be releasing more quests, raids, dungeons or instanced battlegrounds, for example. Instead, they can help keep us interested by optimizing the game and adding new features for us, but these are just tools for us to further play with. The developers aren't/shouldn't give us a goal or "end game" in a sandbox MMO. And, at the end of the day, the conflict, in-game events, politics, and economies have to be driven by the players.

[Sirius]

Eh, simply chanting the word "sandbox" like a mantra doesn't excuse bugs, unplayable server conditions, and general lack of anything to do.

The poster didn't ask for an "endgame"... he just asked for something to do, circling back to his question, which you didn't answer: How do you motivate people to play when there's nothing to do?

[STAR_GOD]

Lol ok and where is this info coming from ? virtus, Jordi, IRC or what ?

jordi got mail from him

[dxwarlock]

300? so my tiny clan takes up 1/20th of the entire game population? the guys near us has 20 members..so count that as 35 people. in one zone.
so us and the other people in our zone are more than a 1/10 of everyone? doesnt sound right.

[xyberviri]

I'm a new player, been only playing for a few days, but I've ran into atleast 5 different people. But to be honest, I don't know how Xsyon is advertising. I found this game out because to me it seems like a decent enough sand box game that I can build mess in.

I mean you show this to anyone who's played minecraft, and they will flip squares over.

i think a post on the minecraft forums would get deleted pretty quick, also most mine craft players are solo players and dont like playing on the SMP servers

[Jadzia]

jordi got mail from him

And what did he exactly say in that mail ?

[dxwarlock]

i think a post on the minecraft forums would get deleted pretty quick, also most mine craft players are solo players and dont like playing on the SMP servers

eh, we had 100+ people on my MC server, and tons of people trying joining everyday , we had to go whitelist because of it. everyone I know that got MC (my friends online and in real life) prefers SMP to single.

judging by the MC forums, and the highest post count of all sections being "Beta - Survival Servers-495586" id say its more popular than you think

[AlexTaldren]

Eh, simply chanting the word "sandbox" like a mantra doesn't excuse bugs, unplayable server conditions, and general lack of anything to do.

The poster didn't ask for an "endgame"... he just asked for something to do, circling back to his question, which you didn't answer: How do you motivate people to play when there's nothing to do?

The problem with your question is that it assumes there is nothing to do, which is obviously subjective considering we're finding plenty to do. You reason that because you don't have anything to do, that means the rest of us must be in the same boat.

As for me not answering his question, it's not my responsibility to give him something to do. If he was in Hopi, he'd have plenty to do, but otherwise it's not my place to give other tribes and their members ideas on how to keep themselves happy and entertained. I just merely point out that it can be done and is being done by those of us who realized and continue to realize that this is Prelude.


300? so my tiny clan takes up 1/20th of the entire game population? the guys near us has 20 members..so count that as 35 people. in one zone.
so us and the other people in our zone are more than a 1/10 of everyone? doesnt sound right.

Yeah, that seems off to me. We have 106 members in-game right now and I doubt Hopi makes up 1/3 of the game's population.

[notintime]

Not in an open-world, sandbox game, at least, it isn't entirely up to game developers. They shouldn't be releasing more quests, raids, dungeons or instanced battlegrounds, for example. Instead, they can help keep us interested by optimizing the game and adding new features for us, but these are just tools for us to further play with.
Yeah i totally agree, problem is that we have no "tools" beside teraforming and building do we? Crafting is poorly implemented, too many easly accesable resources = no trading, no economy at all, you need few man tribe to cover everything and have more than you could ever possibly need. There is no chellenge in anything, everything comes too easy. Even those players quests you can set on totems are pointless at this moment. What can you do for example? "Create 1000 limestone bricks. Reward: 50 leather armor sets"? lol ;) Nobody will cba about player quests as everything is so easly accesable and in such quantity. Escpecially if you are in tribe. Only hermits can find some thing challenging as they will have to try to get some tools from others.

Its like they give us a Lego box and said "go and build stuff for months". ;) Thats all. Its fun for a while but as we see its just noth enough.



And, at the end of the day, the conflict, in-game events, politics, and economies have to be driven by the players.
There wont be anybody to drive the world left when all of this will be possible im afraid :(
Hope im wrong! :)

[Dubanka]

The forums are dead. General chat is dead. My tribe chat is dead. People everywhere are saying their whole tribe is dead.

You got a better estimate?

It's just us.

We are obviously in the minority, in that our active tribe population has shrunk by abou 80%.
I am pretty positive this is due entirely to my lack of effective leadership. I should have developed a more ambitious city building plan...more ditches to dig, walls to build, area to raise.

I am sure, also, that i somehow managed to turn off general zone chat, which is why it's mostly quiet. Can someone please tell me how to turn it back on? Same with tribe chat. Altho, they may just not be talking back to me. It gets lonely.

Also, our choice of zone settlement (another indication of my shitty leadership) was/is obviously wrong, since I was unable to predict that everyone has obviously packed up and moved elsewhere (i mean we know they didn't just stop playing, right? so they most have moved someplace...i should have seen that coming).

I'm sorry. I've failed you all. *walks into the green mist*

[furanku]

I think that everyone who plays the game has posted in this thread...

IRC even only had 17 people on earlier... lol

[maelwydd]

I still have loads to do...probably got at least another 4 weeks worth of work to get my homestead plan finished and then I can actually start with all the stuff surrounding that. I am not bored and look forward to the next 3-6 months of development.

I remember hearing often "players make the content in a Sandbox FFA PvP game" but it seems those same people are actually expecting the game to do it for them. Ironic really...

[Sirius]

I don't see people complaining that things aren't "being done for them".

I see people complaining that the "sandbox" is 2 feet long, 2 feet wide, and 2 inches deep. That's why the game is empty right now. Congrats being satisfied making mud pies in a game that currently lacks any depth, challenge, or competitiveness.

[maelwydd]

I don't see people complaining that things aren't "being done for them".

I see people complaining that the "sandbox" is 2 feet long, 2 feet wide, and 2 inches deep. That's why the game is empty right now. Congrats being satisfied making mud pies in a game that currently lacks any depth, challenge, or competitiveness.

Well when people say "there is nothing to do" in a game where " players make the content" then it is the player who has the problem. Perhaps they expect too much, lack imagination or simply bought the wrong game.

I personally am happy with the game currently as I knew what I was getting....3-6 months of prep work then progressing into the next stage. Now if in 3-6 months the game isn't where it should be then that is something to worry about but for now, it isn't any less then I was expecting and I am enjoying building my homestead, forging aliances, trading for things I need and basically getting ready for the next stage.

[Book]

Congrats being satisfied making mud pies in a game that currently lacks any depth, challenge, or competitiveness.

Right, because it's absolutely necessary to belittle people for enjoying something that you clearly are not enjoying at the moment... :D

There must be something about them mud pies, as I do seem to be having a good amount of fun in-game. I don't see a high quantity of people, that's true, but the ones I do see are pretty high quality. I wouldn't personally want to balance that equation any other way.

Cheers.

[jokhul]

<snip> Congrats being satisfied making mud pies in a game that currently lacks any depth, challenge, or competitiveness.

Hmmmm... pie ! :D

[notintime]

I remember hearing often "players make the content in a Sandbox FFA PvP game" but it seems those same people are actually expecting the game to do it for them. Ironic really...
Yeah but you need first some features(tools) to be able to "create the content". You cant do something from nothig. Pure imagination isnt enough.
You are the one of few ppl who really enjoy the "building your place to live" part of the game, and you dont need anything else for now. Thats good for you but for most ppl it isnt enough, especially for more hardcore players who already accomplished building their ingame "home" cos beside that there is nothing to to tbh.

[maelwydd]

... ingame "home" cos beside that there is nothing to to tbh.

Well I can think of plenty but I guess that is just me...and all the others who are not bitching and just enjoying the game for what it is.

And sorry but "pure imagination" IS enough. In fact, it seems to be the ones without any imagination who actually seem to be having the problems.

[Dubanka]

Well when people say "there is nothing to do" in a game where " players make the content" then it is the player who has the problem. Perhaps they expect too much, lack imagination or simply bought the wrong game.

I personally am happy with the game currently as I knew what I was getting....3-6 months of prep work then progressing into the next stage. Now if in 3-6 months the game isn't where it should be then that is something to worry about but for now, it isn't any less then I was expecting and I am enjoying building my homestead, forging aliances, trading for things I need and basically getting ready for the next stage.
Things to do:

City Building- Really cool. Terraform. Build walls. Building models are pointless (they lack function) and locking gates would be nice, but currently building your sand castle is the most developed part of the game.

Crafting- Lots to do. Lots to grind rather. No item explanation gives you no feedback on whether this piece is better than a previous one. Very little value /use of lower quality items means massive grinding is required to get skill level high enough to be not worthless. Right now you craft for the sake of crafting, as your effort has very little functional value and is thus not something that is tradeworthy.

Trade- Most trading is in raw materials. with crafted items being of dubious value, the main purpose here is grind fodder or vanity. Because of the post launch junk expansion, there is very little need for trade to occur.

Hunt- I know there are some animals out there...just not nearly enough of them.

Fish/Gather/Scavenge- click. wait. walk 5 feet. Repeat.

PVP- Notwithstanding any of the oddities of the pvp 'system', there is simply very little reason to do it. Resources are plentiful (except for lumber ;) ) and thus do not fuel any conflict. There is no mechanism that rewards territorial control. There is no mechanism that rewards or penalizes players for pvp activity.

Events/Competitions- I've never been a big fan of them (in any game) but i know some folks enjoy them. The problem we currently have is what's the motivation? usually there is a prize...with most stuff being without value, how do you motivate players to race/fight/swim/whatever.

The best player made content is the kind that occurs when players encounter other players and then have the freedom to determine the outcome of that encounter. The game currently does not exist at that level. The mechanics of the game do not currently reward, require, or even penalize a player for interacting with another player. There is no reason for a player to be outside of his/her tribal area. There is no ability for players to create drama by making hostile visits to other players area (assuming the mechanics existed for this to be even partially enjoyable from either sides perspective).

So yes, you are perfectly happy playing Sim Hermit. Sim Hermit an MMO not make.

[mgilbrtsn]

Hmmmm, interesting discussion. The population drop for the game really can't be disputed, so that discussion is taken care of. Why is One of the big questions.

1st: standard drop after launch
2nd: lack of content
3rd: Lag issues all around

The really big question in my mind is whether this drop in population is permanent or can rebound. I firmly believe it will. The devs made no bones about the fact that content would be rolled out slowly over 6 months. As this happens word will get out to start coming back. In fact I've been telling ppl to hold off a bit until I give the word that things have improved. I'm still enjoying it, although I'm not logging in as much as I used to. I guess we'll see.

[AlexTaldren]

I don't see people complaining that things aren't "being done for them".

I see people complaining that the "sandbox" is 2 feet long, 2 feet wide, and 2 inches deep. That's why the game is empty right now. Congrats being satisfied making mud pies in a game that currently lacks any depth, challenge, or competitiveness.

If there's one thing this entire community could agree on, it's that you seem to have a hard-on of hate for people who enjoy this game despite its incomplete state. Whether it's a result of jealousy, boredom, or low self-esteem is unclear and irrelevant. All I can tell you, homeslice, is that you may want to find something that makes you happy, video game or otherwise.

[biophazer242]

Props for using the word homeslice.

I myself have taken to the hills for a private homestead and find I have TO MUCH to do! Granted, I am trying to fill with one account the roles that a tribe can easily fill with many. Just gathering the logs to build a damn section of wall can take a long time, let alone terraforming my spot. I suppose it is all just a matter of how you play the game. Someone like myself, I can see a few months of value in the title as it is now just for how long it will take me to get anything done. I do however understand how a large tribe can feel meh at this point. You guys dove in fast, gathered and sorted everything and probably have a ton of tools and gear you do not have any use for and just find yourself saying what now. It is understandable. I would say if that is the case though, take a break.

One question I wonder about up here in the hills overlooking the lake is what will happen to all the places that are left behind when people quit. Be nice to have the ability to not only destroy but salvage from a structure, or just be able to loot from an abandoned camp.

[notintime]

Well I can think of plenty but I guess that is just me...
Please enlighten me, whats else to do beside building, and mostly poitless and boring crafting and maybe occasional hunting if you get lucky to find any animal after 3 hours sightseeing?




And sorry but "pure imagination" IS enough. In fact, it seems to be the ones without any imagination who actually seem to be having the problems.
Oh right, i could imagine that this tree next to my camp is a bear and i could imagina hunting it. I could imagine that i actually need some items so i will go and trade (you dont need to trade anything if you are in tribe with at least few ppl) maybe with some imaginary players too.
I could also destroy 499 axes that my tribemate made in 3 hours and leave only one and imagine that it was actually hard to create it so i could imagine a satisfaction feeling ;)
Seriously...?

Dont get me wrong i have enjoyed the first 2 weeks of this Xsyon jurney. But it feels like I have seen it all(especially when you are in a tribe). Im sure that playing as a hermit can give you maybe better game experience as its harder to make everything by yourself,but not that much harder. It will just postpone a bit the situation that most players are in now (seen everything, done everything). And that has been only 3 weeks since release.

[Dubanka]

If there's one thing this entire community could agree on, it's that you seem to have a hard-on of hate for people who enjoy this game despite its incomplete state. Whether it's a result of jealousy, boredom, or low self-esteem is unclear and irrelevant. All I can tell you, homeslice, is that you may want to find something that makes you happy, video game or otherwise.

Straight for the personal attack. Nice. Stay classy.

It's very easy to see why the game is the way it is, with the systems in their current state...
As a tester, did you do anything besides tell the devs how wonderful the game was?
I mean did you even contemplate what players who might play differently than you would react to the environment?

Every time someone posted a critique, did it get the 'stfu man, this stuff is great. I'm sorry you dont like it. Maybe this game just isn't for you.' treatment?

I'm happy that you can appreciate an incomplete product.
I'm even happier that you can appreciate a product that is even more incomplete than was advertised.
Most of all, i'm absolutely thrilled that you have surrounded yourself with a group of people who are perfectly content to play house.

But you see, I have a problem.
While I actually kind of enjoy, in a put you to sleep medidative kinda way, the tedium of the city building building process...There interest level of my guildies is a bit more diverse. I've got hunters, killers, explorers, builders, healers, politicians and warlords...And i convinced about 20 of them to pay for this incomplete product.
My hunters don't have anything to hunt...people or animals.
My killers don't have a lot to kill (safe zones baby) and no reason to do it if they could.
My explorers kinda lost interest with the lag.
Woot i've got a couple builders active!
Healers? heal what?
My politicians, well without conflict there is no need for diplomacy, thus now politic to rabble.
My warlords, my generals, while readyy and willing to wait out the prelude for the things to come, at this point see no reason to do anything but wait.

So, i'm going to bitch, moan, cajole, and scream to whatever degree I care to, because the devs need to deliver what we paid for. They need to deliver, so I can tell my folks that they didn't waste their money. That this is in fact a great game...they just need to get their ass back in it and play. I can't currently sayy that with a straight face.

[niccoli00]

Refunds are a good way to avoid having wasted your money. NG has been good about giving them out, for the reasons you mention. I hope that in a few months, it's something I might actually enjoy playing. Or perhaps this fall Wurm 2.0 will actually be decent. Time will tell.

[Sirius]

These cats launch a barrage of insults at anyone who criticizes the game or the devs, even if it's someone whose join date is 24 hours old.

They cry (and report player to the mods) when someone insults them back, even in cases where that person is careful to keep the arguments and the tit-for-tat name-calling separate.

They dish more insults when their ridiculous arguments are systematically demolished by someone who speaks English as a first language and can follow a logical discussion.

Then they have the nerve to complain that the critic's comments are motivated by personal animosity (note: that's the same animosity that was never in the picture to begin with until the fanboys responded to legitimate criticism with irrational insults).

We're through the looking glass, people...


Refunds are a good way to avoid having wasted your money. NG has been good about giving them out, for the reasons you mention. I hope that in a few months, it's something I might actually enjoy playing. Or perhaps this fall Wurm 2.0 will actually be decent. Time will tell.

I'd respond to that with an analogy. Suppose you buy a horse. The horse had a top stud and a top mare for parents. His potential is off the charts. But when you buy him (for a reasonable price), he just doesn't work as advertised.

Do you:

1. Get your money back, because nothing else can be done?
2. Whip that horse into shape?

Your answer to this question may or may not offer a profound insight into what type of person you are. You may also find that there are lots of relevant possibilities besides #1 and #2.

But #2 is still a perfectly good option.. and for my money, it's worlds better than #1.

[Aethaeryn]

Here is what I have been doing:

Started solo as I wanted to experience the "struggle" to survive.

Joined a tribe once I realized it was a huge grind to even get a tent on my own etc.

Once I joined the tribe, which already had walls, tents etc. I realized there was not much for me to do. I chose bonecrafting because I wanted to run around, kill animals and scavenge. There are few to no animals to kill. The randomness of scavenging still has me interested - like a lottery etc.

I decided to head off into no-mans land to start over again on my own so I would have something to do. It still seems grindy for me as far as skill point gain. I log in almost every day and sometimes play for hours lugging trees around etc. I am not sure I am having fun. . but I keep doing it. I enjoy it somewhat. . once in awhile though I think about. . okay once I get all of this done (just slower on my own) I am back to square 1 when I joined the tribe.

I am just hoping that at least animals are in by the time I am finished.

I still find the game refreshing and it is all I am really interested. I logged into Darkfall and logged out. . logged into EVE. . logged out. . considered buying Rifts. The only thing I have actually enjoyed playing lately is Meridian 59. . at least it is free while I wait.


Stargod: You are in a pretty PvP centric location. I would think your area would get bored the quickest with the lack of animals and the PvP being so basic. The area I am in is still pretty busy.. . it is mostly people that like to build and mostly homesteaders who have to trade etc.

[ac1dtrip]

I cannot beleive anyone is asking for a refund. No one has paid for a monthly fee yet. Even if you ordered yesterday you still have 6 free weeks. Only thing anyones paid for is the initial game. Way i see it you were given a crappy cheese burger and 10 things of fries and you want your money back. Talk about greedy and unethical.

[Jadzia]

But you see, I have a problem.
While I actually kind of enjoy, in a put you to sleep medidative kinda way, the tedium of the city building building process...There interest level of my guildies is a bit more diverse. I've got hunters, killers, explorers, builders, healers, politicians and warlords...And i convinced about 20 of them to pay for this incomplete product.
My hunters don't have anything to hunt...people or animals.
My killers don't have a lot to kill (safe zones baby) and no reason to do it if they could.
My explorers kinda lost interest with the lag.
Woot i've got a couple builders active!
Healers? heal what?
My politicians, well without conflict there is no need for diplomacy, thus now politic to rabble.
My warlords, my generals, while readyy and willing to wait out the prelude for the things to come, at this point see no reason to do anything but wait.

So, i'm going to bitch, moan, cajole, and scream to whatever degree I care to, because the devs need to deliver what we paid for. They need to deliver, so I can tell my folks that they didn't waste their money. That this is in fact a great game...they just need to get their ass back in it and play. I can't currently sayy that with a straight face.

I understand your frustration about the game, but I don't understand why you convinced your friends to buy it by false advertising. It seems its not the developers' fault but yours.

Hunters and explorers will get their fun soon when they open up new lands with more animals and hopefully fixed zone-crossing lag.

Healers ? What healers ? There won't be healers in game during Prelude, and we don't know if they will be in after Prelude.

Killers are bored by safe zones ? You knew there would be safe zones in Xsyon.
Politicians, warlords, generals...the Prelude was always announced as a phase of rebuilding the world, not destroying it again.

So it seems to me that you complain mainly over things that weren't promised for you.

You shouldn't have told your friends that these things would be in game anytime soon. If they knew what they were getting into they wouldn't be disappointed now.

If you were complaining about the lack of item decay, crafting requiring too much clicking, the missing taming skill, cooking, lack of comfort and so on I'd agree with you, since these ones were promised. But healers and warlords...sounds like you think you are in another game.

[Aethaeryn]

I cannot beleive anyone is asking for a refund. No one has paid for a monthly fee yet. Even if you ordered yesterday you still have 6 free weeks. Only thing anyones paid for is the initial game. Way i see it you were given a crappy cheese burger and 10 things of fries and you want your money back. Talk about greedy and unethical.

Not this again. . the $40 was for the "service" not the box or the software. . clearly stated in the TOS. . so yes. . people have paid a fee for the time they have been playing. . also if your cheeseburger includes cheese. . you paid for the cheese. . includes does not mean free.

[Sirius]

Yup, and it's not hard to figure out why it has to be like that with a game that can't be played without service and servers.

[Morgan]

posting to prove there are some who play who haven't posted yet.

Jadzia, what do you do for fun in this game? So far, all you've done is told dubanka he's dumb because he's not having fun.

Dubanka, As much as I admire you for telling it like it is, trying to convince the Hopi that there's a problem is probably futile.

At this point I only log into the forums to look for some word from Jordi. Either that things are getting fixed, or that he's closing shop. Which will happen first in the next 3 months?

[darkbladed]

Well it all comes down to this;
There are only so many hours in a day and Jordi and crew are using them all.
So unless you can:
A. Make it so there are more hours in a day, or
B. Donate enough money to them, probably a few thousand dollars, to hire a new guy or two for a while.
There is really nothing you can do but wait, take a short break, or leave.
When things get fixed they will get fixed.

I know it is frustrating, for everyone, but there is no use complaining here.
All complaining here is gunna do is scare off any new subscribers that may be checking out the forum buzz for the game.
And if you are genuine, Sirius I am talking to you, about being in it for the long haul and wanting the game to succeed you will leave it be and let them work in peace.

[Jadzia]

Jadzia, what do you do for fun in this game? So far, all you've done is told dubanka he's dumb because he's not having fun.

Where did I said he was dumb ? Actually he said he enjoys the game in a way. I said he advertised the game to his friends with features that weren't even promised for the next 6-9 months.

And I craft, trade, gather for fun, and having fun with friends. I don't really understand why people get mad at players who enjoy the game. Why do you want everyone to be that frustrated as you are...

[Sirius]

And if you are genuine, Sirius I am talking to you, about being in it for the long haul and wanting the game to succeed you will leave it be and let them work in peace.

Er.. no.. it's clear that this dev's dev process involves a lot of player feedback so I'm here to dilute the influence of the pathological peaceniks amongst this playerbase by making suggestions that are sane and reminding them to keep focus on the more.. ahem.. worthwhile gameplay aspects ;)


I said he advertised the game to his friends with features that weren't even promised for the next 6-9 months.

It's been pretty implicit that there would be a basic, functional PVP system from the getgo, but there isn't. I'll wager that if there were, you wouldn't be hearing as much far-sighted griping because people would be more interested in playing the game as it actually is.

[digdug]

My hubbie and myself wont be bothering to play until there's something for us to actually do that doesnt give us RSI. If that doesn't happen until after the free time is up, we wont be resubbing.

+1

I really enjoy playing this game, but theres a reason I waited till beta was over before I bought it. Now Im finding most of the listed features on the companies website are NOT actually implemented yet. I supposed that would be the reason for the free game time. I'm assuming they will extend the free game time until the games fgeatures and its servers stability is fixed. Otherwise I may have to unsubscribe and wait until they've fixed the issues and implement the ADVERTISED FEATURES.

game is awesome and ground breaking. True Next Gen MMORPG.
still I'm a little dissapointed.

[darkbladed]

Thats what I do too; I have grinded 3 trades to 70+ and am working on architecture and I have done a fair bit of terraforming.
That is all still fun for me.
I have also done a lot of trading, helping new people, and socializing with people in my area.
This is also fun for me.

Now if this isn't what you would consider fun then this is not the game for you.

Making a tent is supposed to be tough; ever watch the show "Survivor Man"?
It takes him hours to build a lean-to and get enough berries to survive that night.
You will not have a city over night and this is a good thing; it will lead to longevity
Not every person in our town has a tent; We have cabin tents that 2 senior members share and we have branch stalls for new recruits.

I love how things are hard; if I cut down a tree a block from my house in real life and tried to drag it back it would take me a few hours.
This is simulation the restart of civilizations.

If you want to be able to put a 5 room house up in 20 minutes there are other games you can play; this game is what it is and truthfully it will be hard for homesteaders to survive.
Which brings people together into social groups and villages

Added after 6 minutes:


Er.. no.. it's clear that this dev's dev process involves a lot of player feedback so I'm here to dilute the influence of the pathological peaceniks amongst this playerbase by making suggestions that are sane and reminding them to keep focus on the more.. ahem.. worthwhile gameplay aspects ;)

What I was saying is that right now they are working on redoing pvp, fixing bugs, fixing load times and lag, fixing animals that run off into the mists.
Are these things not things that benefit us all and nothing else can really be done, be it to please peaceniks like me or warhawks like you, until we have a firm foundation?

You can blather on about removing safe zones or anything you want once those things are done; I disagree with you on a lot of your positions but I do think you should have the same voice as your opposition.

What I am saying now is that what they are doing today, right this minute, is beneficial to everyone (especially you) and going off about how things arent perfect is just making things worse for us all in the long run

[Aethaeryn]

Making a tent is supposed to be tough; ever watch the show "Survivor Man"?
It takes him hours to build a lean-to and get enough berries to survive that night.
You will not have a city over night and this is a good thing; it will lead to longevity
Not every person in our town has a tent;

I agree with you on this. The reason I personally mentioned the tent in my post was that this is what drove me to a tribe. . which was a good thing. My complaint about it being a grind was related to the actual mechanics of the game.. . right clicking the tools every time I don't even mind. . it is deleting single objects from my backpack that I don't like.

Survivorman knows how to make a leanto. . so do I. I would start on it right away. . not make 100 wooden barricades first. I understand that it is a game and that progression has to be dealt with in some manner and I am find with that.

What would make the entire process better for me would be the simple addition of a "practice" button like in SWG. You click the box and when you hit start the items are used up and you might gain skill but you do not get the item dropped in your backpack. Metal spikes are okay. . they stack in 20s. . . foragers paddles. . . man.

I should also add that I am still playing the game and plan to. . the only thing that will give it longevity though is not grinding to make a tent. . but more "random" elements or item decay etc.

What keeps me playing right now is the hope that the animal AI will be fixed sooner rather than later and the social element.

[Mitsarugii]

this game is not dying !

most if not all of the pk tribe3s/clans/bands whatever have made themselves very well known in their setup locations, and that has then casued most of the ppl trying to settle in that area or even near it pack up shop and move off into new areas tobe able to gather esources etc in peace ( this is from my experience of the game so far )

my band has been silly busy since launch day trying to get our Fort with a keep inside built and finished, i myself have been keeping busy the last week building a raised beach front property on our tribe land tobe used as a sort of "hunters terrace" ready for when animal taming etc is released as thats what i p;an todo with my time ingame

it all comes down to whether you have any 1. Drive and 2. imagination

if your getting bored 2-3 weeks after release with what you CAN do so far ingame then in the long run this game aint gonna be for you imho. Ive got my long term plan sorted for this game, and so do all of my Band. Can anyone who is complaining say the same thing ?

[Koll]

I think what really makes me smile is all those folks that were whining for their perfect spots with a junkpile nearby, and with a water, more sands and everything next to them and so on...

Now most of these people are gone.

As for our tribe we have been kept busy by the building of our Citadel and city and after this is done well, we will have to find ourselves a new building project to entertain ourselves. Lets hope by then there is PvP or someone that will dare to attack our Mighty Sandfortress...

I kinda feel sorry for the pvp folks right now because even if I didnt do much right PvP in game yet... it seems there isnt much to do with the state of pvp as it is.

Can we get a mutant or Zombie invasions please ? (gives us gates first thought please)

[SlightlyEvil]

Well, apparently we're suppose to "build, trade and explore" for the 6 month prelude too bad we've:

Built an entire city with out 60+ members.
Have 5000+ of every resource.
Explored the entire game inside and out during the like 3 year alpha/beta.

At least SWToR beta will be here soon.

[jefferysauto]

The problem is also a fair amount of us did all of this for almost a year since beta and now again so people are bored as there is the same stuff to do and did not take long to do it as much knew what to do, so people are bored, which I knew would happen, for those that are new I see why its fun to you as it was for us a year ago, but the game does not have anything new for vets that played through beta .

[Drevar]

The problem the big tribes seem to be having is that they used their accumulated knowledge in Alpha/Beta and planned and optimized their course of action...and then blew through it all in the first week. Those of us who homestead/solo are still working on getting settled, so we have much to do still.

I am still a bit puzzled by some comments, though. Jordi has repeatedly stated that the game is centered around rebuilding civilization and societies after an apocalypse (especially in Prelude) with a minor focus on PvP, yet people are complaining that there is "nothing to do but build and craft" and very little chance or reason for PvP......well, duh.

[fatboy21007]

id also like to point out this week i have been gaining 1 new member per day. So id say the game is still growing.

[Kinslayer]

Ahh Jadzia, always looking at Xsyon through rose coloured glasses :)

I have experienced the same thing as the OP, cos Im in the same zone, but numbers in this game have seriously, seriously dropped to an alarming level. I can give you some numbers from my own guild. Before we started actively recruiting, we had around 10 members that were interested in starting Xsyon, members we had from MO, about 4 of those members survived past the first bungled release. Since we started actively recruiting, we have had 75+ applicants, we now have a total of 40 members on our totem, give or take 1 or 2, and currently have around 10 active members. If this game lived up to all it has promised, and was bug free, or even just had its bugs squashed quickly and efficiently, we would currnently have about 80 members on the totem, most of which would be playing actively. Sadly, this is not the case.

IRC numbers have dropped from having around 300 at first release date, to around 200 or so on 2nd release, to 150 about 3 weeks ago, to a grand total of no more than 30 or so in the past week. Again, these numbers are very alarming.

Now dont get me wrong, I like the game, and I still play, though I would prefer if a lot of things were fixed, first and foremost, and that we had more content coming in a little quicker. So far, we are a month into Prelude, and the bugs havent even been sorted. Prelude was originally only supposed to last 6mths, and we were to see a tonne of content added during this time. We are 1/6th of the way into Prelude then, and not one bit of new content, and still we see the devs needing to spend endless hours on fixing bugs, that they just cant seem to fix. How are they working on agriculture or religion, or tribe expansion, or combat overhaul, if they are only working on bugs they cant seem to fix? Again, alarm bells are ringing.

My account is currently set to renew sub, and I wont be changing that at this point, but we really need to start seeing some stuff happen from the dev team. Apparently a new programmer has been put on, yet nothing seems to be happening any quicker, and still Jooky has no time to have a look at the forums and respond to concerns like this one, like he used to in beta. We need more comms from the devs, but at the same time, more progress in the fixing of bugs and the adding of content, and the reviewing of GUI's and mechanics. The list remains very long and grows day by day, of things that need to be done. All of these things combined, make it extremely hard, as a guild co-leader, to keep members interested and still logging in. We do the best we can, but we need some help from the devs to keep people interested and playing also.

Hopefully they sort this shit out soon, and everyone will start logging in again, and we wont feel constantly pressured in trying to keep our members somehow interested, which just seems impossible atm if they arent actually liking the game how it currently is, or have that same immense hope that some of us have.

[STAR_GOD]

Ahh Jadzia, always looking at Xsyon through rose coloured glasses :)


This is so going into my quotes section

[esudar]

you naive cute carebears really thought this was enough, didnt you

[darkbladed]

Well, apparently we're suppose to "build, trade and explore" for the 6 month prelude too bad we've:

Built an entire city with out 60+ members.
Have 5000+ of every resource.
Explored the entire game inside and out during the like 3 year alpha/beta.

At least SWToR beta will be here soon.

Wow you have 5000 white polyester cloth, 5000 cobalt acrylic cloth, 5000 black bear round bones, 5000 large metal sheets, etc etc?
Wow!

Of do you mean you have 5000 of each currency?
Because my tribe has over twice that and we are nowhere close to finished building.

And also if you do in fact have 5000 of all the cloths etc; if you leave, can I have your stuff? :)

[scambammer]

Evil_Inq what happened to your band of merry basketball oddities?

[coca]

I have a problem.
My hunters don't have anything to hunt...people or animals.
My killers don't have a lot to kill (safe zones baby) and no reason to do it if they could.
My explorers kinda lost interest with the lag.
Healers? heal what?
My politicians, well without conflict there is no need for diplomacy, thus now politic to rabble.
My warlords, my generals, while readyy and willing to wait out the prelude for the things to come, at this point see no reason to do anything but wait.

So, i'm going to bitch, moan, cajole, and scream to whatever degree I care to, because the devs need to deliver what we paid for. They need to deliver, so I can tell my folks that they didn't waste their money. That this is in fact a great game....

.... Dubanka is solid. Our guilds are very similar.

VD and HH both took a beating from haters when we tried to point out all the flaws of the game. It was rather amusing to me and still is.

Headhunters have been around for YEARS.. we have alot of experience in games and offered help through the discussions and suggestion forums. Both HH and VD saw this coming. We got flamed for having constructive critisism about Xyson.


I've advocated for alot of things and aspects of the game that I could give two shits about... I am a PK. However I do understand All aspects of the game are needed to keep the sandbox populated and a fun place to play. It's a shame the carebears wanted everything to be easy and are burnt out already. The Devs' caved..

They can make it up by releasing new content and by working on pvp and mob spawns. But they dont have long.. this game is slipping away.

[Sirius]

Gradually, *some* (but not all, or even most) of the pathological peaceniks in this game will realize that without meaningful PVP, there will be:

No competition, no challenge, no economy, no trade, no politics; nothing to do; nothing to talk about


All there will be is:

*Making a sandcastle because it looks pretty
*Exploring the landscape because it looks pretty
*Making weapons and armor because they look pretty
*Taming pretty animals and teaching them to behave peacefully
*Using stealth to play hide-and-seek
*"Trading" for pretty stuff that you already have in infinite supply (because trading is fun!)
*The prettiest stuff will be the most sought-after, and everyone will have it because resources, recipes, etc, are unlimited, and access to them is not restricted by competition
*Talking on the forums about how pretty things are
*Starting a religion strictly for the awesome fashion options it brings to the table
*Building additional pretty stuff
*Looking forward to pretty stuff that will be added to the game in the future


Resources, logistics, politics, trade -- these are all tools, not goals. You use them to work towards overcoming a challenge. If there's no challenge to overcome, they're worse than window-dressing... they're just busy work for the sake of busy work. Take away that challenge, that competition, and you are playing The Sims.

[xyberviri]

We have 106 members in-game right now and I doubt Hopi makes up 1/3 of the game's population.
+apache and pandemic would be about 180/190ish

[Jadzia]

The Sims is the most popular PC game. Just saying. I bet the devs would be happy if they got the same size of playerbase, lol.

[AlexTaldren]

you naive cute carebears really thought this was enough, didnt you

Sounds like someone needs to take a deep breath and remember that this is just a video game. The vitriol coming out of your mouth is laced with self-loathing and a hatred for complete strangers you've never met in real life. Chill, mighty PvP man, chill.

[xyberviri]

The problem the big tribes seem to be having is that they used their accumulated knowledge in Alpha/Beta and planned and optimized their course of action...and then blew through it all in the first week. Those of us who homestead/solo are still working on getting settled, so we have much to do still.

I am still a bit puzzled by some comments, though. Jordi has repeatedly stated that the game is centered around rebuilding civilization and societies after an apocalypse (especially in Prelude) with a minor focus on PvP, yet people are complaining that there is "nothing to do but build and craft" and very little chance or reason for PvP......well, duh.

^ this, yet people dont understand, get the minecraft folks to join, i know everyone knows at least one person that plays that game on peaceful.

[darkbladed]

Sirius as much as I am a peacenik and am not going to PvP myself does not mean I don't want PvP.
To avoid confussion I'll lay out what I personally want:
1. The ability to tag your tribe semi-permanently/permanently either warring or peaceful;
Peaceful tribes would have totem safe zone but cannot attack on others lands, warring would not have totem safe zone and will be able to attack on all non-safe lands

2. I want PVP, without PVP I can only sell so many pieces of armor before the market is flooded

3. Decay, gradually on use, heavy on death. I want all armor and weapons to get 10-20% decay on death; from bears and PVP and a 3% per day when worn, 2% when stored in outside, 1% when stored in a building.

4. I want Totems (10 damage points) of warring, and undeclared, tribes to be destroyable, they can take up to 2 damage points per day (by an opposing PVPer using the totem - with a bar on use like opening baskets) and let tribe members heal their totem at the rate of once per day; this will cause abandoned totems to be destroyed within a week.

5. I want more clothing options especially regular pants, shirts, skirts, and dresses (doesn't have to be from sets, maybe skill lvl bound)

Do these sound good to you Sirius?
Tell me what you want; don't just say "you peaceniks are ruining the game" can PVPers that are overly aggressive also ruin the game for those that don't like to be spawn camped (hence the need for safe zones)

[Armand]

Sounds like someone needs to take a deep breath and remember that this is just a video game. The vitriol coming out of your mouth is laced with self-loathing and a hatred for complete strangers you've never met in real life. Chill, mighty PvP man, chill.

Internet Warriors are men among men, the epitome of virility, the champions of masculinity. Women flock to them, and common men wish to be them. Please do remember this when addressing them Alex, for the fervor and tempered courage they exhibit online is a direct representation of those behind the keyboard.

[Sirius]

Darkbladed, the things you posted sound more or less fine. To clarify, I'm not exactly saying that you "peaceniks" are ruining the game, just predicting that many of you come to feel that this is all pointless without a solid foundation of PVP to make it all interesting and worthwhile, and will rethink your approach to this game. And additionally, the comments were intended partly as a response to people who seem to be saying that the game should be fine as-is for all of prelude, 6+ months, even if that means no meaningful PVP.



you naive cute carebears really thought this was enough, didnt you
Sounds like someone needs to take a deep breath and remember that this is just a video game. The vitriol coming out of your mouth is laced with self-loathing and a hatred for complete strangers you've never met in real life. Chill, mighty PvP man, chill.

If that counts as "vitriol", brosef, you may be the most plentiful source of vitriol around. Calling someone "naive" and "cute" does not evince hatred, but you certainly seem to go off the deep end on a regular basis.


Internet Warriors are men among men, the epitome of virility, the champions of masculinity. Women flock to them, and men wish to be them. Please do remember this when addressing them Alex, for the fervor and tempered courage they exhibit online is a direct representation of those behind the keyboard.

Jeez, you people certainly are fond of ad hominem attacks.

BTW, women do flock to me IRL, but that's because I am tall, good-looking, well-built, smart, and well-educated, and not because of my online internet gaming persona, which I generally keep somewhat hidden from normal people :P

[xyberviri]

with the servers being worked on daily for maintenance your going to have animals re spawning faster. so all that about not having anything to hunt is going to go away.

when players go out hunting its going to give the Pkers something to do and they will go out hunting.

When the PKers start killing the hunters its going to give the politicians something to do.

Being political and having diplomacy is going to give the tribe something to RP about

The problem revolves around hunting animals because that's the PvErs food and with out there food there population is slowing which is causing issues with the food chain.

Food chain of Xsyon:

Animals>PvErs>PvP&Crafters&Traders>Diplomats&RPers&Tribes

See with out animals the big fish can't eat and grow to be eaten by the bigger fish.

Of course the city builders are fine because usually you just need fish which isn't really in the food chain. (figuratively not literally)

[Armand]

Jeez, you people certainly are fond of ad hominem attacks.

I sing only the praises of the Keyboard Champions, "brosef".


The testosterone fueled passion is blinding many to the undisputed fact that the current product is incomplete and under development. Everyone and his dog knows that PvP (in all its shapes and forms) is an integral part of any successful online game.

Some are simply fanatical in their assertions and propaganda of their "hardcore" image.

[Dubanka]

Sirius as much as I am a peacenik and am not going to PvP myself does not mean I don't want PvP.
To avoid confussion I'll lay out what I personally want:
1. The ability to tag your tribe semi-permanently/permanently either warring or peaceful;
Peaceful tribes would have totem safe zone but cannot attack on others lands, warring would not have totem safe zone and will be able to attack on all non-safe lands

2. I want PVP, without PVP I can only sell so many pieces of armor before the market is flooded

3. Decay, gradually on use, heavy on death. I want all armor and weapons to get 10-20% decay on death; from bears and PVP and a 3% per day when worn, 2% when stored in outside, 1% when stored in a building.

4. I want Totems (10 damage points) of warring, and undeclared, tribes to be destroyable, they can take up to 2 damage points per day (by an opposing PVPer using the totem - with a bar on use like opening baskets) and let tribe members heal their totem at the rate of once per day; this will cause abandoned totems to be destroyed within a week.

5. I want more clothing options especially regular pants, shirts, skirts, and dresses (doesn't have to be from sets, maybe skill lvl bound)

Do these sound good to you Sirius?
Tell me what you want; don't just say "you peaceniks are ruining the game" can PVPers that are overly aggressive also ruin the game for those that don't like to be spawn camped (hence the need for safe zones)

from a loose conceptual standpoint...i'd agree. I'd disagree with some of the details you have, but as a starting point, it's a 1000% better than what we have now.

I think what sirius means when he's saying that peacniks are ruining the game...is that those who are espousing that the current situation is wonderful, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current state of the game...that attitude is troublesome.

I stood outside several large tribes areas last ngiht for about 2 hours, gathering sand (in 740). I ran about a zone and a half to get there(from mid 700). I didn't see single player there. While on the outskirts of these other tribes areas gathering their sand, i did not see, hear, much less be approached by another player (either in friendship or with ill intent). I killed 2 coyotes in the area. Which would lead me to believe that not too many people have been hanging around those townships. I didn't see another player on the run back. There were dozens of tribes and homesteads that i ran through.

The world is empty.

it needs a defib, stat.

[Sirius]

I sing only the praises of the Keyboard Champions, "brosef".


The testosterone fueled passion is blinding many to the undisputed fact that the current product is incomplete and under development. Everyone and his dog knows that PvP (in all its shapes and forms) is an integral part of any successful online game.

Some are simply fanatical in their assertions and propaganda of their "hardcore" image.

You're repeatedly asserting that other people's comments are based on their hatred, "hardcore image", and other purported personality defects, rather than sensible gameplay observations and suggestions. That's character assassination, the most dishonest of all dishonest debate tactics, in its purest form – and no amount of jaded sarcasm will change that.

[darkbladed]

Dubanka I dont think anyone is saying that the game is perfect as is; what I think they are saying is that they are still having fun right now .
I am still having a lot of fun; if it is like it is now in 3-6 months I will not be.
Everyone wants more content; more for everyone to do.

I think the problem is on both sides is that we see our selves as sides.
Both "peaceniks" and "PVP douches" (I'm using offensive terms on purpose) need to come together as neither of us can survive alone.
If there are no peace loving crafters PVPers won't have armor, weapons, or anyone to kill and take from.
Without PVPers peaceful crafters mean nothing cause who will use our gear also taking out PVPers makes resources too common which eliminates trade.

Also personally I like the fear I get when my 30 in all combat stats self out to visit/find resources; it is exciting.
I think most of the "peace crowd" is just afraid that they will be surrounded by douches that kill them over and over for hours on end and grief them.

So let's stop all of this bickering and come together to assist the developers.

[Armand]

You're repeatedly asserting that other people's comments are based on their hatred, "hardcore image", and other purported personality defects, rather than sensible gameplay observations and suggestions. That's character assassination, the most dishonest of all dishonest debate tactics, in its purest form – and no amount of jaded sarcasm will change that.

Well if it walks like a duck...

There is general consensus among the community that the game needs to be "fleshed out" immensely, and that the driving forces behind expansion and retention of the population are simply not present yet. Too many are deaf to this due to their own incessant chest pounding. That is my point.

Separation from one's infallible persona might provide much needed perspective and clarity.

[Sirius]

Dubanka I dont think anyone is saying that the game is perfect as is; what I think they are saying is that they are still having fun right now .


For what it's worth, DB (::immature giggle::), a lot of people seem to be insulting players who are bored with the current state of play, saying they're short-sighted or unimaginative if they're not satisfied with what's already available.

[Jadzia]

Ahh Jadzia, always looking at Xsyon through rose coloured glasses :)

Maybe :) Or maybe I knew what I was getting into, thats why I'm not frustrated.

I was here when they first announced the launch day...15th of March. In 2010. Then they modified it to 15th of April. Then to 20 of May. Then to 15th of Jun. Then to 25th of August. Then in August they said it will be launched 'when ready'. I've been here for more than a year now and saw the development speed. Yes, it was (and still is) very slow. It took months to implement basic features.

When Jordi said that the game will launch in March 2011 he was honest and admitted that its necessary to keep the development going. I accepted the fact that the game has to launch in an unfinished state otherwise it may never ever launch.

As I said I saw the development pace. I expect Prelude to go for 12 month MINIMUM. It won't end after 6-9 months. I never expected any new content in the first 3-4 month after launch, if we get anything I'll be surprised. I hope they will switch decay and item quality on soon, since it was working during beta only got switched off because of the lag issues. With these 2 things the economy may survive.

If we get cooking and perhaps taming in like 4 months I'll be glad.

Is the state of the game good ? No, not really, but its still fun for many of us. Would it be better if it was full with new features ? Of course. Can we do anything about it ? No. We can wait patiently or leave. Complaining on forums doesn't help even a tiny little bit. The devs are working day and night, they just can't do more. I accepted this in May, thats why I'm still here. Anyone who expect a faster development will be disappointed. Will we see a big drop of the numbers of players ? For sure. Will there be enough players to help the game survive ? I hope so, but we will see.

Is it correct business to launch an unfinished game ? It is if they were honest about it. Were they honest enough ? No, I don't think so. It would have been much better to be more frank about the state of the game. Though the devs hardly advertised the game, or they didn't advertise it at all, so we can't blame them for that. It were the players who started the hype in February, and I was worried when I saw that. Its never good to promise non-existent features to people to get them to buy a game. And the word 'potential' makes me want to scream, lol. Who buys a game for potential ? I buy a game for what it is not what it might become one day.

And I see another problem. Players simply don't like to believe some facts if they don't like it. So they are like 'ok they said so but we will see', they keep living in denial and when they actually get to see that they were wrong they start complaining. This is plain stupid imo.

Its not about PvP pr peace. Its about accepting the game as it is now, being able to wait and have fun meanwhile or choosing to complain. I understand everyone who is upset about the promised but still missing features like comfort, item and skill decay, taming, archery, animals, better combat. But I have no sympathy toward anyone who complains about features that were never promised.

[Kropos]

I understand where you coming from. But if nothing new, particularly a decent combat system, is introduced within the pre-order free time period very few people are going to stump up a monthly subscription fee to continue playing. I love the game, but cannot see myself continuing on with the at present limited content and abilities. I and a lot of other people want to see the game do well, but are not prepared to pay a subscription without concrete development of the game. At the moment, all we have had is stabilization and optimization of the game itself, which should have been done in the past year :(

[biophazer242]

We need an in game PVP system if for no other reason than to cool off the forums :)

[xyberviri]

Just would like to mention when i bought this game i came into it expecting nothing what so ever. i had zero hopes and ambitions for it and decided to try it. so far going from not expecting anything from the game i have grown to like it for what it does have and throw that word potential around a bunch.

this game is like the spiritual successor to UO, if the lag issue and animal problem are solved in this month then they can move on to other issues. thats all we need right now to tied a major part of the player population, if they can turn on item decay in the next month that will stimulate the economy.

[Sirius]

Maybe :) Or maybe I knew what I was getting into, thats why I'm not frustrated.

I was here when they first announced the launch day...15th of March. In 2010. Then they modified it to 15th of April. Then to 20 of May. Then to 15th of Jun. Then to 25th of August. Then in August they said it will be launched 'when ready'. I've been here for more than a year now and saw the development speed. Yes, it was (and still is) very slow. It took months to implement basic features.

When Jordi said that the game will launch in March 2011 he was honest and admitted that its necessary to keep the development going. I accepted the fact that the game has to launch in an unfinished state otherwise it may never ever launch.

As I said I saw the development pace. I expect Prelude to go for 12 month MINIMUM. It won't end after 6-9 months. I never expected any new content in the first 3-4 month after launch, if we get anything I'll be surprised. I hope they will switch decay and item quality on soon, since it was working during beta only got switched off because of the lag issues. With these 2 things the economy may survive.

If we get cooking and perhaps taming in like 4 months I'll be glad.


In fairness Jadzia, it sounds like you did not, at any point, know what you were getting into, until after you had experienced a full calendar year of disappointment. Instead, the rug was repeatedly pulled out from under you, and you're now desensitized to the frustration that comes along with being treated that way.

Back when VD was still active, we used to joke in vent that playing Xsyon is like being in an abusive relationship. There's that temptation to think, "it's not that bad... things are probably like this for everyone... he only hits me because he loves me so much!"

It was funny because it was true. :(

[Jadzia]

In fairness Jadzia, it sounds like you did not, at any point, know what you were getting into, until after you had experienced a full calendar year of disappointment. Instead, the rug was repeatedly pulled out from under you, and you're now desensitized to the frustration that comes along with being treated that way.

Back when VD was still active, we used to joke in vent that playing Xsyon is like being in an abusive relationship. There's that temptation to think, "it's not that bad... things are probably like this for everyone... he only hits me because he loves me so much!"

It was funny because it was true. :(
Back in last March I didn't know. But after 2 delayed launch I did know. I had the option to ask for a refund or to wait and I knew that if I decide to wait I'll need a lot of patience. I'm not saying that players HAVE to be patient, I chose to be.

I'm glad that the game launched and I'm having fun. Don't know how long, but I can only play 2-3 hours a day, my highest skill is like 40, and I haven't touched terraforming and arch yet, so I still have a lot to do. Its sad that you don't enjoy the game, but its not a reason to think that others don't :)

[AlexTaldren]

Back in last March I didn't know. But after 2 delayed launch I did know. I had the option to ask for a refund or to wait and I knew that if I decide to wait I'll need a lot of patience. I'm not saying that players HAVE to be patient, I chose to be.

I'm glad that the game launched and I'm having fun. Don't know how long, but I can only play 2-3 hours a day, my highest skill is like 40, and I haven't touched terraforming and arch yet, so I still have a lot to do. Its sad that you don't enjoy the game, but its not a reason to think that others don't :)

Exactly. This entire notion that the game isn't fun is just false. It is fun. And, while those who aren't having fun fill their time berating those of us who give our opinions about the current state of the game, they continue to forget that we submit gameplay suggestions and hope for a deeper combat system as much as the next person.

I do want a better combat system. I do want more features like animal taming, archery, smithing, and cooking. I want more recipes, weapons, and armor. I want a functioning tree regrowth, animal re-population, and comfort level system. But, just because I want those things, doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't be able to have fun with what is present and working in-game. Nor should it mean that me describing my fun on these forums should be met with irrational disbelief that can be summarized by saying, "I'm not having fun! So only an idiot could possible be having fun."

I mean, why so Sirius? :)

[Book]

A friend of mine had been playing this game for a bit during beta and telling me, rather enthusiastically, of the kinds of things he was working on in-game. It sounded like something I'd really enjoy doing as well. However, he did tell me I may want to hold off a few months to see how things shape up and develop. That was fair of him to do. I chose to dive in anyway, and I've been happy I did.

The fact that I'm having fun playing the game these days, and I'd like to emphasize playing (which should be fun by definition, otherwise, why play?), doesn't mean I'm blind to the fact that it is not complete as it stands. Of course it isn't. I don't really think anyone would say that it is. Not a single person having set foot in the server as it currently stands would make the argument that the game is complete and should remain as-is. Not one person.

On the other hand, my understanding of what the vision driving where the game is headed sounds really cool to me. Are we there yet? Of course not, see above, not one person would make the claim that we are. I would also imagine even the devs cannot be sure some pothole along the way won't throw them right off the road, but it's an ambitious project in scope taken on by a few people and I hope they have the opportunity to see it through.

Where I think, and thought when I bought the game, the vision for the future of this game is headed is quite realistic battle over resources. When I first read about it, I immediately thought of chimps and bonobos.
Bonobos are a type of "gracile" chimp that live south of the Zaire river. They live amongst gorillas who eat leaves, while the bonobos eat fruits. There's no competition for resources. The bonobos are the peaceniks of the ape tree, they literally make love, not war, literally. Drop a cardboard box inside a room full of bonobos and they don't fight over who is going to check out the box first. They release the social tension by dimming the lights and turning on the ole Barry White, so to speak.

Then, you've got the chimps as we (or perhaps just I) more commonly thought of them. They live north of the zaire river. They live amongst primates that also eat fruits, and thus have a lot more pressure on resources available. These chimps throw feces, break branches in wild displays of anger and intimidation. They seriously form bands of young male chimps that go around the forest murdering young male chimps of rival chimp factions.

We're not there yet. I've enjoyed pvp in just about every game I've played, except for the rare times when not pvping is not an option left to me on a day I'm tired and just feel like chilling out a bit. I'm sure I'd be put in the whole "peacenik" side of things right now but that's really only because I'm enjoying the chance to play with what is there currently. I don't see it remaining this way forever. I may grow tired of it at some point, when it may be time to fire up BC2 or something else and visit Xsyon as things progress. Again, having fun doesn't mean I'm blind :).

The point is, the underlying tenets driving development are probably quite true to what many people currently not having fun are actually looking for. We're just not there yet. You can whip a horse all you like, but there does come a point when said whipping is only going to tire your arm. The horse simply can't go any faster, jump any higher, and the option is either to keep whipping the poor thing to death or to accept this is the horse that it is, ride it for what it is, or get another horse.

[darkbladed]

Well here is what I see on page 14...
Peaceniks, like Jadzia, are frustrated by the game and what PVP douches are saying...
PVP douches, like Sirius, are frustrated by the game and what Peaceniks are saying...

Each group is frustrated for different but real reasons,
Each group is insulting the other group because they are different,
So in my book each group is trolling the forums because they are unhappy with some piece of the game;
If they weren't they would be playing the game and not forum trolling.

So can we just end this thread and those like it?
I am gunna report my own post to get some mod attention.
Hopefully they will close this thread so that people can cool off.
I think both sides have some VERY VALID points but I also think that both sides should be ashamed about how they are acting.
Myself included, because I have said things in this and other threads that maybe I shouldn't or were not entirely fair.

So hopefully some of you will start posting apologies before this thread is, hopefully, locked.

For me I would like to start;
Sorry for getting frustrated and calling Sirius an arsehat (I think that's what I called him - or whatever it was I am sorry for that) and I have come to see that he isn't just whining but is genuinely concerned for the game.

[Belight]

There are no appologise on the internet!!!!1

[jokhul]

<snip>
As I said I saw the development pace. I expect Prelude to go for 12 month MINIMUM. It won't end after 6-9 months. I never expected any new content in the first 3-4 month after launch, if we get anything I'll be surprised. I hope they will switch decay and item quality on soon, since it was working during beta only got switched off because of the lag issues. With these 2 things the economy may survive.

If we get cooking and perhaps taming in like 4 months I'll be glad.

Is the state of the game good ? No, not really, but its still fun for many of us. Would it be better if it was full with new features ? Of course. Can we do anything about it ? No. We can wait patiently or leave. Complaining on forums doesn't help even a tiny little bit. The devs are working day and night, they just can't do more. I accepted this in May, thats why I'm still here. Anyone who expect a faster development will be disappointed. Will we see a big drop of the numbers of players ? For sure. Will there be enough players to help the game survive ? I hope so, but we will see.

<snip>

That is about the most realistic post in this entire thread, and the bit I've quoted is exactly the way I see things going in Xsyon.

Things in Xsyon will be changing very slowly. Anyone who doesn't accept that is going to scream themselves hoarse and then leave anyway.

Many of the so-called "peaceniks" are generally more patient and able to amuse themselves with what little the game offers at the moment, but the "PvP-centered" players are highly frustrated because the opportunities for PvP are severely lacking.

Sadly for them, that is not going to change much in the next 4 months or more. Anyone that thinks the tiny Xsyon development team can build a brand new, engrossing PvP system in 4 months from scratch is severely deluded.

It is very unlikely that Xsyon will EVER have a PvP system that even approaches the quality of Darkfall or Mortal Online. Those 2 games both have a bigger dev team, and combat is their focus, whereas in Xsyon combat is merely a feature of the game, not it's reason for existence.

It will probably take at least another 4 weeks to get the lag, zone crossing bug and server stability sorted. We're still seeing little lag spikes, even with the population as low as it currently is. And we don't even have the basics (item quality/durability, decay, animal spawns, etc.) working yet. Without those features, NOBODY will stick around, not even the "peaceniks"...

[Saolite]

Maybe :) Or maybe I knew what I was getting into, thats why I'm not frustrated.

I was here when they first announced the launch day...15th of March. In 2010. Then they modified it to 15th of April. Then to 20 of May. Then to 15th of Jun. Then to 25th of August. Then in August they said it will be launched 'when ready'. I've been here for more than a year now and saw the development speed. Yes, it was (and still is) very slow. It took months to implement basic features.

When Jordi said that the game will launch in March 2011 he was honest and admitted that its necessary to keep the development going. I accepted the fact that the game has to launch in an unfinished state otherwise it may never ever launch.

As I said I saw the development pace. I expect Prelude to go for 12 month MINIMUM. It won't end after 6-9 months. I never expected any new content in the first 3-4 month after launch, if we get anything I'll be surprised. I hope they will switch decay and item quality on soon, since it was working during beta only got switched off because of the lag issues. With these 2 things the economy may survive.

If we get cooking and perhaps taming in like 4 months I'll be glad.

Is the state of the game good ? No, not really, but its still fun for many of us. Would it be better if it was full with new features ? Of course. Can we do anything about it ? No. We can wait patiently or leave. Complaining on forums doesn't help even a tiny little bit. The devs are working day and night, they just can't do more. I accepted this in May, thats why I'm still here. Anyone who expect a faster development will be disappointed. Will we see a big drop of the numbers of players ? For sure. Will there be enough players to help the game survive ? I hope so, but we will see.

Is it correct business to launch an unfinished game ? It is if they were honest about it. Were they honest enough ? No, I don't think so. It would have been much better to be more frank about the state of the game. Though the devs hardly advertised the game, or they didn't advertise it at all, so we can't blame them for that. It were the players who started the hype in February, and I was worried when I saw that. Its never good to promise non-existent features to people to get them to buy a game. And the word 'potential' makes me want to scream, lol. Who buys a game for potential ? I buy a game for what it is not what it might become one day.

And I see another problem. Players simply don't like to believe some facts if they don't like it. So they are like 'ok they said so but we will see', they keep living in denial and when they actually get to see that they were wrong they start complaining. This is plain stupid imo.

Its not about PvP pr peace. Its about accepting the game as it is now, being able to wait and have fun meanwhile or choosing to complain. I understand everyone who is upset about the promised but still missing features like comfort, item and skill decay, taming, archery, animals, better combat. But I have no sympathy toward anyone who complains about features that were never promised.

I personally agree with this post, almost completely. A few parts I disagree on, not so much out of viewpoint, but because of personal opinion -- but otherwise, the logical side of me agrees with this.

All the people I invited to Xsyon still play, as do I -- we, however, play only 3-4 hours a day as compared to the 10 hours a day we put in when we first arrived.

We're here until things get better, one way or another. Some people leave, some people stay. Just the way things are in every game.

I do agree with the above poster, though -- a few of the more basic features need to be enabled as soon as possible. Item Decay and tooltips, at the very least.

[jemmus]

Additionally, and in my opinion, it's far too easy for even one or two dedicated players to build up their place and get everything they need. There's too much junk, too many resources, it's too easy to learn recipes, too easy to get to high skill levels, there's little reason to explore, to travel and to trade. Thus people think there's nothing left to do.

I'd agree with this one. Meaningful challenge + reward for overcoming challenge = stimulation and satisfaction. Not too challenging if all the resources you need are too readily available. A little more scarcity or danger (danger not necessarily from PVP, could be from the environment) could improve the game I think.

[biophazer242]

A little more scarcity or danger (danger not necessarily from PVP, could be from the environment) could improve the game I think.

Tribe of cannibals could make for some good danger :)

[boomer0901]

I'm making a revolution around the game world atm, seen about 9 ppl thus far, travelled about 3/4 around so far, and not just in a straight line, any totem I see as I go, I go to it and check it out. Found about a 6 dozen or more abandoned homesteads and about a 7 completely abandoned homesteads with buildings still built

[jemmus]

Tribe of cannibals could make for some good danger :)

There you go. Make it a tribe of scrap-hogging cannibals and we might have all bases covered. :)

[coca]

Just would like to mention when i bought this game i came into it expecting nothing what so ever. i had zero hopes and ambitions for it and decided to try it. so far going from not expecting anything from the game i have grown to like it for what it does have and throw that word potential around a bunch.

this game is like the spiritual successor to UO, if the lag issue and animal problem are solved in this month then they can move on to other issues. thats all we need right now to tied a major part of the player population, if they can turn on item decay in the next month that will stimulate the economy.

Didn't read the features list... smart man.. I think *scratches head* Ignorance is bliss.

[Dirt]

I've seriously got no time to post in this one because im doing so much stuff in game, Gotta go. Please bring sand to me, thankyou.

[hrobertson]

I've seriously got no time to post in this one because im doing so much stuff in game, Gotta go. Please bring sand to me, thankyou.

I loled.

Off to play minecraft.

[Kinslayer]

Maybe :) Or maybe I knew what I was getting into, thats why I'm not frustrated.

I was here when they first announced the launch day...15th of March. In 2010. Then they modified it to 15th of April. Then to 20 of May. Then to 15th of Jun. Then to 25th of August. Then in August they said it will be launched 'when ready'. I've been here for more than a year now and saw the development speed. Yes, it was (and still is) very slow. It took months to implement basic features.

When Jordi said that the game will launch in March 2011 he was honest and admitted that its necessary to keep the development going. I accepted the fact that the game has to launch in an unfinished state otherwise it may never ever launch.

As I said I saw the development pace. I expect Prelude to go for 12 month MINIMUM. It won't end after 6-9 months. I never expected any new content in the first 3-4 month after launch, if we get anything I'll be surprised. I hope they will switch decay and item quality on soon, since it was working during beta only got switched off because of the lag issues. With these 2 things the economy may survive.

If we get cooking and perhaps taming in like 4 months I'll be glad.

Is the state of the game good ? No, not really, but its still fun for many of us. Would it be better if it was full with new features ? Of course. Can we do anything about it ? No. We can wait patiently or leave. Complaining on forums doesn't help even a tiny little bit. The devs are working day and night, they just can't do more. I accepted this in May, thats why I'm still here. Anyone who expect a faster development will be disappointed. Will we see a big drop of the numbers of players ? For sure. Will there be enough players to help the game survive ? I hope so, but we will see.

Is it correct business to launch an unfinished game ? It is if they were honest about it. Were they honest enough ? No, I don't think so. It would have been much better to be more frank about the state of the game. Though the devs hardly advertised the game, or they didn't advertise it at all, so we can't blame them for that. It were the players who started the hype in February, and I was worried when I saw that. Its never good to promise non-existent features to people to get them to buy a game. And the word 'potential' makes me want to scream, lol. Who buys a game for potential ? I buy a game for what it is not what it might become one day.

And I see another problem. Players simply don't like to believe some facts if they don't like it. So they are like 'ok they said so but we will see', they keep living in denial and when they actually get to see that they were wrong they start complaining. This is plain stupid imo.

Its not about PvP pr peace. Its about accepting the game as it is now, being able to wait and have fun meanwhile or choosing to complain. I understand everyone who is upset about the promised but still missing features like comfort, item and skill decay, taming, archery, animals, better combat. But I have no sympathy toward anyone who complains about features that were never promised.

Congratulations on being here for over a year. You know, I've been here for only 3mths less than yourself, and have seen most of these things also, but that doesn't mean its a bad thing to post our concerns on the forum. Forums are typically used for communication with the rest of the games community and the developers, and because of this, are usually viewed as the ideal place to voice ones concerns about the game, the games direction, and the development. It is a great shame to see, constantly, this division in the community, which is usually started by Pandemic vs Hopi. Perhaps Hopi need to stop pretending to be the innocent ones here, cos lets face it, you guys arent at all as carebear as you'd have everyone believe, and your tribes forum trolling backs that up. I'm pretty sure I'm yet to see a post by Pandemic that hasnt been jumped on by a Hopi troll. Im straying a little here though, this is not directed at your quote.

I have not stated anywhere in my post complaints about features that were never promised. All features I listed, agriculture, religion, were promised features for during Prelude. Im pretty sure some things Jooky even promised for early Prelude. But whatever, if new content takes longer, so be it. Main concerns derive from the fact that bugs just aren't getting fixed. In fact, it seems pretty clear most of the time, that they just dont seem to know how to fix them. Is this something youre okay with? Do you find it okay that if you walk for 5-10mins away from your totem you crash. Is it okay that the minute you hit 'c' that everything lags to hell and people seem to make movements by running on the spot followed by warping 10 meters? Is it okay with you that animals dont spawn by themselves? You already noted the fact that item decay and quality is turned off, so Ill refrain from posting that one.

Some other things that were supposed to be done by now... local chat is supposed to be earshot distance, not 2-2.5 boards, the option to be a warring tribe is supposed to be in, so tribes can fight one another if they wish, why havent griefer "neutral" tribes turned evil?, trees aren't re-spawning cos it seems world update isn't even on, again, item decay/quality. This is not shit I'm making up, this is all stuff that was supposed to be in in the first few weeks of Prelude, if not release. I realise they have had to concentrate on bugs and lag, but that isnt getting fixed either. In my experience in my 9+ months here, bugs were typically fixed very quickly, and then development could concentrate on new features, and Jooky always had time to browse these forums and respond to concerns such as these, and other ideas players had. Now, since the first bungled release, we haven't seen the bugs fixed, perhaps improved, but not fixed, we have not seen any of the basic features that were supposed to be implemented, and we haven't seen Jooky on the forums bar one, maybe two posts apart from the vague updates.

So these are people's concerns, and mine. This doesnt mean Im not playing the game, and not enjoying what is currently in place, but they are concerns nonetheless, and rather than stewing on them, I for one would rather air my concerns in a place where Jooky may have the chance to see them. As far as I can tell, they are all legitimate concerns, cos these are all problems within the game, and all contributing factors to the reasons people are leaving the game.

You obviously dont lead Hopi, and are not responsible to try and keep your members interested and logging in. This is a very frustrating and time consuming job, which quite frankly, at the moment, is an impossible job. One of your members posted a few pages back stating Hopi had 106 members currently logged in, my answer to that is... bullshit! You may have 106 people on your totem as members, but I would be willing to take a bet to say that of those 106, at least 50 would be inactive, or log in no more than once a week. But anyway, if your having fun, good for you, but dont deny people their right to voice their concerns.

[mindtrigger]

As a member of NoX, we had something over 80 people apply around launch time, and we got enough people on our totem for Tribe land status, but I think I heard someone in my tribe say in-game that only about 16 people are logging in regularly. Lots of people straight up bailed, and maybe they will come back later when there is some gameplay. Right now it's a construction game. No meaningful crafting, war/pvp, trade, pve or anything else to keep people interested beyond building stuff. In fact, I quit crafting and building stuff when I realized there was NO FUNCTION for anything I was creating. I hope the game makes it in the long run, but I certainly don't blame people for bailing.

Even crafting is a nightmare if you need any kind of wood at all, which is many of us.

[Jadzia]

@Kinslayer: Though my post started with a quote from you, it wasn't addressed to you at all, I meant it in general, and partly as an answer to Dubanka's comments. I apologize, it wasn't clear from my side. You are not one who complain just for the sake of complaining. I meant it to players who start new threads every day in the same doomsaying manner, as the OP in this thread.

As I said I do have concerns and problems with the game, I just don't see how complaining on forums could help. If the devs were lazy then perhaps, but I guess we all know that they work their asses off to get the game into a correct shape. I enjoy the game just as you do, with all of its bugs and problems and hoping that they will be fixed soon.

And just to clear it up, I'm not a Hopi member, I started as a solo player right after launch.

[Dubanka]

@Kinslayer: Though my post started with a quote from you, it wasn't addressed to you at all, I meant it in general, and partly as an answer to Dubanka's comments. I apologize, it wasn't clear from my side. You are not one who complain just for the sake of complaining. I meant it to players who start new threads every day in the same doomsaying manner, as the OP in this thread.

As I said I do have concerns and problems with the game, I just don't see how complaining on forums could help. If the devs were lazy then perhaps, but I guess we all know that they work their asses off to get the game into a correct shape. I enjoy the game just as you do, with all of its bugs and problems and hoping that they will be fixed soon.

And just to clear it up, I'm not a Hopi member, I started as a solo player right after launch.

I am not, by any means complaining for the sake of complaining.

I want this game to succeed, quite a lot actually. It has enormous potential.
In every post i make, i am trying to be factual, and in most cases constructive in my analysis and critique.

The forums exist as a means for players to provide the game developers feedback.

It is important for devs to get all kinds of feedback...the good, teh bad, the ugly.

One thing i've found with my many years of wasting time on a computer, is that the devs are not always in touch with their game...bugs, exploits, balance...they may think they get it (because they made it) but often times they never envisioned mechanics being used/abused in the manner they are...Smart devs read their forums, and let the players help them sort out if things are working as intended.

Case in point. How many times have we 'fixed' the lag in the last 6 weeks? It was the host. then it was the terraforming, tool tips, then it was fixed, then it wasnt, then it was terraforming again, then it was 'players doing stuff'...etc. etc. etc. My point is, that i'm sure they were certain the 'fixed' it each and every time they said they did...or else they wouldnt have committed otherwise.

Anyway. Saying 'it sucks' has no value to anyone. Saying, 'it sucks for these reasons...' has value. Pretending that it doesnt suck, has no value. Villifying others for explaining why it sucks for them detracts from value because it bullies folks from posting their opinions (not everyone likes these little back and forth pseudo flame fests :) )

Lastly. If i think it sucks, and you disagree, please feel free to argue and point out my lackk of logic or flawed analysis. Good discussion is great. It serves as a resources to both devs and players alike for how things work, are being viewed, or are being abused. It is unfortunate when good threads degenerate into pointless name calling and epeen waving (now threads that start out that way can be epic ;) )

[AlexTaldren]

You obviously dont lead Hopi, and are not responsible to try and keep your members interested and logging in. This is a very frustrating and time consuming job, which quite frankly, at the moment, is an impossible job. One of your members posted a few pages back stating Hopi had 106 members currently logged in, my answer to that is... bullshit! You may have 106 people on your totem as members, but I would be willing to take a bet to say that of those 106, at least 50 would be inactive, or log in no more than once a week. But anyway, if your having fun, good for you, but dont deny people their right to voice their concerns.

In defense of Jadzia, I don't see how she is denying anyone their right to voice their concerns. Is she a moderator? Is she deleting posts? Is she locking threads? Considering your view that those who are frustrated with the game have a right to sound off, surely you believe those of us who are having fun with the game have the same right?

As for your interest in Hopi's member count and activity. You can guess all you want.

[Jadzia]

I am not, by any means complaining for the sake of complaining.

I want this game to succeed, quite a lot actually. It has enormous potential.
In every post i make, i am trying to be factual, and in most cases constructive in my analysis and critique.

The forums exist as a means for players to provide the game developers feedback.

It is important for devs to get all kinds of feedback...the good, teh bad, the ugly.

One thing i've found with my many years of wasting time on a computer, is that the devs are not always in touch with their game...bugs, exploits, balance...they may think they get it (because they made it) but often times they never envisioned mechanics being used/abused in the manner they are...Smart devs read their forums, and let the players help them sort out if things are working as intended.

Case in point. How many times have we 'fixed' the lag in the last 6 weeks? It was the host. then it was the terraforming, tool tips, then it was fixed, then it wasnt, then it was terraforming again, then it was 'players doing stuff'...etc. etc. etc. My point is, that i'm sure they were certain the 'fixed' it each and every time they said they did...or else they wouldnt have committed otherwise.

Anyway. Saying 'it sucks' has no value to anyone. Saying, 'it sucks for these reasons...' has value. Pretending that it doesnt suck, has no value. Villifying others for explaining why it sucks for them detracts from value because it bullies folks from posting their opinions (not everyone likes these little back and forth pseudo flame fests :) )

Lastly. If i think it sucks, and you disagree, please feel free to argue and point out my lackk of logic or flawed analysis. Good discussion is great. It serves as a resources to both devs and players alike for how things work, are being viewed, or are being abused. It is unfortunate when good threads degenerate into pointless name calling and epeen waving (now threads that start out that way can be epic ;) )
I think it doesn't suck :) Its hard to have a logical argument on this since it depends on taste. What I find fun you may find it boring and vica versa.

As long as you complain about lag, lack of promised features (which were promised for launch), desync problems, economy etc I'll agree that you have the right to complain. But in your post you were complaining about features that were never promised or were promised for like 9 months from now...this is where I disagree with you. You can say that it would be nice to have those features right now, but you can't say that the devs have let you down by not giving them.

And unfortunately this thread is not about constructive criticism. Just read the OP again...that post is nothing but doomsaying. It has no use at all, doesn't help for the devs, if someone knows exactly the number of players then its them, so they really don't need threads about the number of players.

Again, I understand if people have concerns. Some of these concerns are valid and serious. I myself have a lot about the economy. But I don't see how these threads could help...the devs just can't work any faster.

[Armand]

It is a great shame to see, constantly, this division in the community, which is usually started by Pandemic vs Hopi. Perhaps Hopi need to stop pretending to be the innocent ones here, cos lets face it, you guys arent at all as carebear as you'd have everyone believe, and your tribes forum trolling backs that up. I'm pretty sure I'm yet to see a post by Pandemic that hasnt been jumped on by a Hopi troll.

I pray that the ignorance you display on the forums does not taint the positive relations we have with some of your members in game.

On the subject at hand, I believe the distinction has been made between those offering constructive criticism as opposed to unintelligible, infantile fits of rage.

Is the current state of the game acceptable? No.

Should people continue to be patient and understanding? Completely up to them.

The most effective method of displaying one's contempt and distaste for the way things are: Vote with your wallet.

[Sirius]

Armand, do you have ANYTHING TO SAY AT ALL that isn't a childish insult? Yeah, I thought not.


Well if it walks like a duck...

There is general consensus among the community that the game needs to be "fleshed out" immensely, and that the driving forces behind expansion and retention of the population are simply not present yet. Too many are deaf to this due to their own incessant chest pounding. That is my point.

Separation from one's infallible persona might provide much needed perspective and clarity.

Taken in the context of you, e.g. insulting players complaining about sync problems and incorrectly blaming the players' hardware for server side problems, calling people names when they object to your clearly incorrect suggestions, and then apparently dropping in on this thread solely for the purpose of insulting other players who observe that even the most basic combat system is non-functional, pardon me if I don't take as Gospel your explanation that personal insults are a legit form of discussion when coming from you because your personal insults are accurate...

If you walk into a discussion and dish insults, don't be surprised when you get insults back. You are, of course, free to complain and report the player you attacked to the mods when he responds to your attack.




Nor should it mean that me describing my fun on these forums should be met with irrational disbelief that can be summarized by saying, "I'm not having fun! So only an idiot could possible be having fun."

Funny, by looking at the post history it's clear that you came into this thread with unnecessary and irrelevant insults. Jadzia and others, meanwhile, have sat there and told players that they're stupid or unimaginative if they're not enjoying what's in game now. [Further comments revealed this is not quite what she thinks, but you can see how the discussion looked to us at that point.]

This is becoming a surreal pattern on these forums: insult someone, complain/insult/mod report when insulted back.

On a subtantive note, I'm glad you are able to be patient about waiting for tree regrowth, other new features, and expansion of existing features. But you should probably take care to notice that PVP is much more basic and essential than any of what you mentioned, even if you don't consider yourself a PVPer. It's a basic feature of the game, and any MMO really, and it's just not working at all. (Not just "a crappy combat system"; not just "not the way we like it"; it's actually not even functional.



Sadly for them, that is not going to change much in the next 4 months or more. Anyone that thinks the tiny Xsyon development team can build a brand new, engrossing PvP system in 4 months from scratch is severely deluded.

Not sure if I said it here in this thread, but I personally am complaining only that the existing PVP system is utterly broken. I could deal with the state of play a lot better if the basic functionality required for PVP (i.e. sync) were working. Again, I think you would hear a lot less complaint about the current lack of sieging, etc., if only players just had the opportunity to go out and scalp someone.



Its sad that you don't enjoy the game, but its not a reason to think that others don't

I'm certainly not suggesting there aren't people currently enjoying Xsyon the way it is. But imagine this: what if fishing, gathering, scavenging, crafting, etc., were all turned off, and the only thing to do was run around whacking people with your Pre-Order weapon. I think you would not be enjoying yourself at all, and you would rightly feel cheated by the fact that all of this very basic game functionality (your favorite parts of the game, no less) were turned off and unavailable. And wouldn't it just add insult to injury if you posted on the forums asking when that would be fixed, and people piled on to call you an idiot and tell you to STFU and just enjoy what was in the game?

Unfortunately, that seems to be where PVPers are left right now.

[Jadzia]

I'm certainly not suggesting there aren't people currently enjoying Xsyon the way it is. But imagine this: what if fishing, gathering, scavenging, crafting, etc., were all turned off, and the only thing to do was run around whacking people with your Pre-Order weapon. I think you would not be enjoying yourself at all, and you would rightly feel cheated by the fact that all of this very basic game functionality (your favorite parts of the game, no less) were turned off and unavailable. And wouldn't it just add insult to injury if you posted on the forums asking when that would be fixed, and people piled on to call you an idiot and tell you to STFU and just enjoy what was in the game?

Unfortunately, that seems to be where PVPers are left right now.
You are right about this. The factor that makes it hard for you to enjoy the game is that you only like 1 of the features. As you listed, they would have to turn off a lot of features to make the game boring for many of us. One feature is not working and you are bored. I don't mean that this is your fault, but perhaps it indicates that the game is not for you. I hope I'm wrong, and I really mean it, I wouldn't like anyone to leave the game. ( Well, perhaps 2 players, but you are not one of them :p )

I'd like to point out that I never said to anyone that he/she is stupid, unimaginative or whatever if not enjoying the game. If I did so I'd like to ask you to quote it please.

If they fix the combat ( I mean purely the mechanics, animation, the desync problem, weapons and armor effects) but will leave everything else as it is now, will you enjoy the game ?

[JCatano]

Turn off crafting (and only crafting) and these same people would understand without saying "this game isn't for you" every other post.

[d1g1talbuddha]

My hubbie and myself wont be bothering to play until there's something for us to actually do that doesnt give us RSI. If that doesn't happen until after the free time is up, we wont be resubbing.

This. I enjoy our tribe, or what is left of it... however, it has become tedious to spend the time to log on, look around for animals for 1hr, and find none.... NONE!!!! 6-7 or more zones, and not a damned one! I want to at least be able to hunt... critters, humans... aliens... something!

This is a sandbox alright... but an empty one.

Worst part is, I wish for the success of Xsyon, but can not, in good faith, recommend this game to anyone.

[Armand]

Worst part is, I wish for the success of Xsyon, but can not, in good faith, recommend this game to anyone.

^

Ten chars.

[Kinslayer]

In defense of Jadzia, I don't see how she is denying anyone their right to voice their concerns. Is she a moderator? Is she deleting posts? Is she locking threads? Considering your view that those who are frustrated with the game have a right to sound off, surely you believe those of us who are having fun with the game have the same right?I refer more to the instant trolls from mostly your members, everytime someone posts something critical about the bugs and lack of performance of the game. I was not meaning to single Jadzia out. As you would see by reading what you quoted from my post, I was under the impression Jadzia was still a Hopi member.


I pray that the ignorance you display on the forums does not taint the positive relations we have with some of your members in game. I find it interesting that you label my pointing out that your members are not controlled on the forum, and that some are incessant trolls, to be ignorance. As for our relations in game, at current, I believe are very limited. I have only had a very brief report from our Senators. Nonetheless, whatever diplomacy is being discussed or asked for, this has no bearing on the fact that I find constant trolling by certain people on this forum extremely tiring, and negative. Perhaps you should address your members rather than throw words like "ignorance" at other people.

@Jadzia - I wasn't aware you left Hopi, good for you. I would like to mention though, I think you and I read two very different OP's here. I read an OP that was saying that he has seen a very limited number of people in game, and asking if anyone else has experienced the same. Personally, I dont see anything wrong with bringing up that conversation, and judging by the other 16 pages, it has been quite an interesting conversation.

[Armand]

I find it interesting that you label my pointing out that your members are not controlled on the forum, and that some are incessant trolls, to be ignorance. As for our relations in game, at current, I believe are very limited. I have only had a very brief report from our Senators. Nonetheless, whatever diplomacy is being discussed or asked for, this has no bearing on the fact that I find constant trolling by certain people on this forum extremely tiring, and negative. Perhaps you should address your members rather than throw words like "ignorance" at other people.


If you can't read the nuances between retaliation and instigation, then I'll happily stand by my judgment. I'll leave it at that.

[2tone]

I do not believe Xsyon is a ghost town, I've been playing for a while and haven't seen any ghosts.
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.
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Thanks, you've been a great audience, don't forget to tip your waitress.

[orious13]

I do not believe Xsyon is a ghost town, I've been playing for a while and haven't seen any ghosts.
.
.
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Thanks, you've been a great audience, don't forget to tip your waitress.

lol...

/thread

he/she wins.

[Delvie]

I do not believe Xsyon is a ghost town, I've been playing for a while and haven't seen any ghosts.
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.
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Thanks, you've been a great audience, don't forget to tip your waitress.

Ok that was good. Now I'm picturing my White fabric bin and wondering which type of cloth would work best to dress up as a ghost for halloween and go spook zone 699.

Edit: And can you tell I've spent way too much time lately sorting cloth?

[grimben]

Worst part is, I wish for the success of Xsyon, but can not, in good faith, recommend this game to anyone.

+1

(10 chars)

[Jizel]

Honest answer here, the game play it's self is a bit tedious. Wondering when my hands are going to give out. A lot of point and click and the windows/baskets/containers constantly moving around personally drives me bonkers. Many a time I have just walked away from the computer out of fustration. Lag is a bit rough right now. Also if I was in a tribe that just gave me everything I wouldn't find that very fun or exciting half the fun right now is seeing if I can make it on my own. My 3 pennies take em or not :)

[Bigdaddy2292]

Worst part is, I wish for the success of Xsyon, but can not, in good faith, recommend this game to anyone.

While i somewhat agree with what is stated above, you have to understand what goes into a game like this. Not to say you are by any means ignorant i think most people do not give enough credit to this understaffed team and how fast they are accomplishing progress in this game. Wurmonline i played for 4 years and there effort into progress i wouldn't even rate at an 1/8 of what these guys put in and it took them many many years to even accomplish what this team has in less then a year, months even. Not to mention how responsive there team is in cooperating with the community and actually listening to what there player base suggest while relentlessly spending sleepless nights coding fixes and on top of that spending the time to go skim through forums and respond to player questions and needs.

Most people from what i have seen are loving what xsyon has to offer and hoping the best for the finished product, i can only hope that the hindered population returns once they begin to tweak things like combat and crafting (because IMHO that is where the replay value is in a game such as this), i am personally a 70+ weapon crafter in game and feel that craft has nothing left to offer currently for example simply because i cannot tell the difference from one blades damage or speed compared to any other. Whats personally kept me returning in the game so far is my love to terraform land sit back and enjoy what i have accomplished most of all playing the game with a great group of people while doing so. Given combat is IMO completely broken atm and crafting is lacking due to rarity of high ql recipes and ql of items/armor itself. I still have faith that they will make them work in a timely manner once they have tended some of the more pressing and time consuming necessary fixes such as zone lag, animals and loading times.

Long story short i guess im trying to say i think people should probably do other things to kill time if there looking for a more finished product so to speak and not give up on xsyon so easily due to unfinished features at the prime of there release. Wouldn't you agree?

[JCatano]

Sell it before it's too late, Jordi!

[Sirius]

The factor that makes it hard for you to enjoy the game is that you only like 1 of the features. As you listed, they would have to turn off a lot of features to make the game boring for many of us. One feature is not working and you are bored. I don't mean that this is your fault, but perhaps it indicates that the game is not for you.

The "feature" I am talking about is playability at a stable ping. The absence of this "feature" would be considered a game-breaking bug in any real-time game. It is something that was working before, but is now not. So I don't really find your response to be convincing.

Armand, your comments are almost uniformly hostile personal attacks and off-topic recommendations such as "vote with your wallet", a glib and facile response that can be directed at any gameplay criticism without contributing anything to the discussion. Your conduct publicly shames Hopi tribe. Proud of yourself?

[Jadzia]

The "feature" I am talking about is playability at a stable ping. So I don't really find your response to beconvincing.

Convincing ? About what ?

But my question is if they fix the combat (ping and everything-wise), will you enjoy the game ? This is a serious question.

[Sirius]

By "convincing", I mean, e.g., "persuasive".

I'll rephrase, then. You're suggesting that since the lack of one "feature" is so troubling to me, whereas they'd have to turn multiple "features" off to upset you, that shows "this game isn't for me" [though I can't say I'm thrilled with this dead-end response constantly being trotted out...].

But that response confuses core gameplay functionality with mere "features". As an illustration, note that if the "inventory feature" were broken, so that you couldn't hold or use any items (but could go around punching people endlessly), you wouldn't really be able to do any of the things you've said you enjoy. Having player sync be completely out of whack is that basic and essential to the functioning of a real-time game, especially one with twitch combat elements. See what I mean?

As to your question, I'd say that if they fixed the sync and nothing more, I'd be happy with the progress for a couple weeks. Of course, I can't promise I'd like the game – all sorts of further annoyances, like being unable to find a player willing to leave his/her safe zone, could conceivably rear their heads.

[Bigdaddy2292]

seems to me that you may looking for a quick band aid to certain features to make it more tolerable would i be correct to assume so?

[Sirius]

Not quite sure what you mean. Yes, fixing sync would make other things more tolerable. Yes, I'd like that fix to be quick like a band-aid, but no, I wouldn't want that fix to be temporary like a band-aid. So, I am saying that I'd probably be happy with the current PVP system for at least a while if they would just fix the sync. Not sure if that is what you meant.

[clangedon]

game is empty for a reason no combat system no contents now we can only build and craft.
a lot of ppls have quit i think only 10% accounts are playing now.
my tribe have 20 ppls and i'am the only one are play, a lot of tribe near me is empty.

[Chevron]

This game is fail.

[Book]

Not quite sure what you mean. Yes, fixing sync would make other things more tolerable. Yes, I'd like that fix to be quick like a band-aid, but no, I wouldn't want that fix to be temporary like a band-aid. So, I am saying that I'd probably be happy with the current PVP system for at least a while if they would just fix the sync. Not sure if that is what you meant.

Is the sync issue related to lag? I'm just curious... if two players are in the middle of a zone and have been there a while, so that the server and their clients have had a chance to catch up, is there still a sync problem?

Would it be feasible to build an arena somewhere in the middle of a zone, remove the totem, and have exhibition fights in said arena?

Not a long term solution by any stretch but wondering if that would work.

[jemmus]

Whatever. People can be sheep and follow the crowd out toward some MMORPG that provide instant gratification and will dangle carrots in front of your nose so to keep you "immersed." Don't think they'll find anything as innovative as Xyson out there, though. I'm going to stick around and see where they can go with a game world that has navigable, player-morphable 3D terrain rendered to the horizon. It's only been 3 weeks since launch, FFS.

[Atmos]

do other things to kill time if there looking for a more finished product so to speak and not give up on xsyon so easily due to unfinished features at the prime of there release.

Nothing wrong at all with this. right? wrong.

[xyberviri]

Whatever. People can be sheep and follow the crowd out toward some MMORPG that provide instant gratification and will dangle carrots in front of your nose so to keep you "immersed." Don't think they'll find anything as innovative as Xyson out there, though. I'm going to stick around and see where they can go with a game world that has navigable, player-morphable 3D terrain rendered to the horizon. It's only been 3 weeks since launch, FFS.
there are other games that had far worse issues in the first month, EarthRise was completely unplayable for the first month and had a larger development team that Xsyon, yet Xsyon manged to fix most of the issues in about 2.

[AngelusDD]

1. the xsyon dev team did an excellent job fixing the technical issues of the game, and that very quickly when compared to most or all other mmorpgs.

2. however, i would say Xsyon is more a niche game than most other mmorpgs. therefore customers running away in dozens per day is not that good. because these pre-order and early buyers are supposedly those who form the long term subscriber base.
they are the hardcore players! losing them early by mistakes like a destroyed economy (likely never to be repaired until a new full wipe) may be the first nail in the coffin.

[Morgan]

1. the xsyon dev team did an excellent job fixing the technical issues of the game, and that very quickly when compared to most or all other mmorpgs.

2. however, i would say Xsyon is more a niche game than most other mmorpgs. therefore customers running away in dozens per day is not that good. because these pre-order and early buyers are supposedly those who form the long term subscriber base.
they are the hardcore players! losing them early by mistakes like a destroyed economy (likely never to be repaired until a new full wipe) may be the first nail in the coffin.


^^This^^

This is the kind of game the Rift/WOW player asks his buddy the hardcore gamer about. If the hardcore gamer replies with "yeah I got it 2 weeks ago, but I'm done playing it. I'm pretty bored. There's not a lot of crafting, and combat is kind of boring, and there's nothing to fight for or to accomplish by trading" Do you think that mainstream gamer is gonna make the switch? So there are many times when it's not just one player you're losing, you're losing that one player and his 3 friends he would have hyped up to get the game.

[JCatano]

Lag spike monster is back right now. It's not totally empty.

[Kinslayer]

1. the xsyon dev team did an excellent job fixing the technical issues of the game, and that very quickly when compared to most or all other mmorpgs.The problem is though, not all the technical issues have been fixed, and this is what a lot of the community is having trouble with. Tracking is off so combat is impossible, animals wont respawn, so hunting is impossible, lag spikes are still constant, crashes on zone crossings are still common, collision on some things dont work, exploits that are apparently known but havent been fixed, I wont list them here of course. Thats just off the top of my head, so I'm sorry, but no, the technical issues of the game have not been fixed quickly. Some may have been improved, but certainly not fixed.

I think a big problem is Jooky's lack of reading threads like this. I can understand he is busy with the coding, but I fear he may have lost touch with the community over the past month or two. I just hope his mod team are reporting back to him the general consensus and concerns of the majority of the player base.

[Ven_Jance]

this game has peaked already

Our once tribe of near 80, who posted all day long about the game in Feb and into March hasn't had a post on it's general forum in 2 days.

This game once had the interest of other MMO sites as well - now?

Sure, you don't care you say, you have your niche sandbox with noone to play with
It bums me out that there will be no growing population in a game that is driven by players - I have been there and done that, except in some cases that took years - in this case, it is far too quick.

What I see is a game that is still - the same- if not worse off than when it was in beta. I always come back to the word potential.

Really- it would take one major feature addition since early Feb to prove or show this game is worth continuing to follow, let alone pay for.

How about adding the species of animals, or 1/2 of the ones that were supposed to be at launch?

[AngelusDD]

Tracking is off so combat is impossible, animals wont respawn, so hunting is impossible, lag spikes are still constant, crashes on zone crossings are still common, collision on some things dont work, exploits that are apparently known but havent been fixed,
- in my fights i was very able to hit and got hit. and i log in with a standard 125ms ping from europe. kills included....but i know what you mean. there is the odd chance for tracking being off.
- animals do respawn. only a few days ago i hunted and got hunted by animals.... yet i admit the spawn at very odd places and not really realistic.
- lag spikes are rare. if they hit then only for a few seconds and not very often. and i have literally visited all boards.
- zone crossing lags are horrible! but game does no longer crash at all after they fixed that direct x issue
- never noticed wrong collisions.
- dont know anything about exploits.



I think a big problem is Jooky's lack of reading threads like this. I can understand he is busy with the coding, but I fear he may have lost touch with the community over the past month or two. I just hope his mod team are reporting back to him the general consensus and concerns of the majority of the player base.
i really hope the mods do report about these threads.

overall i have much more problems with the lack of content.
whole house valerius stopped playing. and some here know that we are quite hardcore.

[Aethaeryn]

- in my fights i was very able to hit and got hit. and i log in with a standard 125ms ping from europe. kills included....but i know what you mean. there is the odd chance for tracking being off.
- animals do respawn. only a few days ago i hunted and got hunted by animals.... yet i admit the spawn at very odd places and not really realistic.


I think you must be pretty lucky then honestly. Or maybe when you log in the animals have been reset. Who knows. I know there was a guide on talking about running some in game content / events. . maybe playing as a creature etc. That at least might be something for the time being. Even item decay would help with the social aspect.

[Kinslayer]

- in my fights i was very able to hit and got hit. and i log in with a standard 125ms ping from europe. kills included....but i know what you mean. there is the odd chance for tracking being off.
- animals do respawn. only a few days ago i hunted and got hunted by animals.... yet i admit the spawn at very odd places and not really realistic.As Aeth says, you are extremely lucky, or perhaps it depends on where in the world you are, cos I know in our neck of the woods, even a 1v1 is impossible due to the desync and lag as soon as you hit the 'c' button.
Animals dont respawn, Guides have been placing them for us. Just last night GuideZadkiel was in game asking who wanted animals spawned in their area.

[Armand]

Armand, your comments are almost uniformly hostile personal attacks and off-topic recommendations such as "vote with your wallet", a glib and facile response that can be directed at any gameplay criticism without contributing anything to the discussion. Your conduct publicly shames Hopi tribe. Proud of yourself?

Are you going to program the game yourself? Oh wait, I suppose you mean to tell me that the criticism you've posted here is something that hasn't been regurgitated ad nauseam.

Really, Sirius, I apologize to you and everyone else I've vexed. Keep up the good fight.
As the wailing of children draws attention from parents, I'm sure your efforts will bear fruit in equal measure.

Instead of organizing projects which foster community, or trying to be creative in game to encourage interaction while the world is being fleshed out and improved, let's all focus on doomsaying and circular arguments. Brilliant.

[ModMunkir]

Let's keep the thread on topic, for those of you who are essentially having a discussion, please take it private
the thread will remain open as long as the topic is discussed, any further back and forth discussions will be deleted and the thread will be locked


thank you

Munkir

[coca]

You should remove offensive parts of a post dont delete the whole post that explains information directly associated with the topic.

[Sirius]

You can only post offensive stuff if you are a member of a certain tribe.

[dxwarlock]

You can only post offensive stuff if you are a member of a certain tribe.

your better than this sirius, dont stoop to mud slinging one liners

[Sirius]

Everything else I post gets deleted, hence little incentive to make a long or thoughtful response.