Poll for selective down time

[dezgard]

Poll for selective down time.

Vote here for what you prefer as maintenance times.

Saturday & Sunday (should the server have maintenance?)

[mmogaddict]

IF fixed then I would say something like the following would work out best for all the various timezones (other than the kiwis)

*** Northern Hemisphere Daylight/Summertime ***
PDT Midnight - 1am
EDT 3-4am
UTC 7-8am
BST 8-9am (London)
CEST 9-10am (Paris etc)
China 3-4pm
AEST 5-6pm
NZ 7-8pm

Note the hours would need to move during Southern Hemisphere Daylight/Summertime (Northern Winter)


The OTHER alternative for fixed times could be:

PDT 6-7am
EDT 9-10am
UTC 1-2pm
BST 2-3pm (London)
CEST 3-4pm (Paris etc)
China 9-10pm
AEST 11pm-Midnight
NZ 2-3am

[xyberviri]

IF fixed then I would say something like the following would work out best for all the various timezones (other than the kiwis)

*** Northern Hemisphere Daylight/Summertime ***
PDT Midnight - 1am
EDT 3-4am
UTC 7-8am
BST 8-9am (London)
CEST 9-10am (Paris etc)
China 3-4pm
AEST 5-6pm
NZ 7-8pm

Note the hours would need to move during Southern Hemisphere Daylight/Summertime (Northern Winter)


you know SWG does all there Daily maint at 4:00am PST even on the euro servers.

[mmogaddict]

you know SWG does all there Daily maint at 4:00am PST even on the euro servers.

That's great for the 3 people still playing SWG.

Also SOE is kinda known for some of the worst levels of customer service in the industry. Hence why WoW kinda crapped all over EQ2 and why SOE is struggling and has just sacked 1/3rd their workforce.

[Book]

Found this post helpful in reaching a decision : http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6345-Server-downtime

The server downtime could just as easily one day interrupt prime time in my neck of the woods consistently and I'd be bummed. Would rather have it interrupted once in a while now, across the board, than face the prospect of continual interruptions in the future as these folks are facing now.

[Armand]

I think everyone should have to bear with the inconvenience equally. Shift the times.

[MrDDT]

Set it to whatever hour is has the least amount of people online. Its pretty simple.

I would hate to see it rotating and for 4 days in a row, its set at the peak hours of prime time. Doesnt make sense to me at all.

Yes we have 5k people online at 8pm PST, and only 50 people online at 3am PST. Lets have it rotate so that 5k people are upset vs 50 people. Makes no sense.

[jokhul]

I'd have to vote for a downtime that inconveniences the least amount of players, even though that will probably be to my detriment as an euro player. It just makes the most sense, and besides, it's democratic :D

[coca]

Why no persistant saves? Ultima would (pause.) The game would save itself and then you would (unpause) without ever having to log back in. It would take about 2 minutes several times a day. It would give you plenty of notification before that happened. You also had some longer save events that the server would stop recording data but still be playable while it backed itself up.. this usually resulted in an hour or two of complete pvp madness becuase no matter what you did it didn't happen.

People would log in just for the free for all fighting.

[Delvie]

IF fixed then I would say something like the following would work out best for all the various timezones (other than the kiwis)

*** Northern Hemisphere Daylight/Summertime ***
PDT Midnight - 1am
EDT 3-4am
UTC 7-8am
BST 8-9am (London)
CEST 9-10am (Paris etc)
China 3-4pm
AEST 5-6pm
NZ 7-8pm

Note the hours would need to move during Southern Hemisphere Daylight/Summertime (Northern Winter)


The OTHER alternative for fixed times could be:

PDT 6-7am
EDT 9-10am
UTC 1-2pm
BST 2-3pm (London)
CEST 3-4pm (Paris etc)
China 9-10pm
AEST 11pm-Midnight
NZ 2-3am

Personally the Other alternative looks best to me. Also I would be sure to schedule it so it doesn't affect Friday or Saturday night for anyone. Not sure how that works with the Other alternative though as there is a date line involved which totally screws with my head.

[xyberviri]

PDT(PST what ever its call in the us now) 6 or 7 AM would be fine and im here in the states. but that would piss of players from France.

[Mitsarugii]

i voted for fixed times aslong as they stay as they are for this week all the time

[xyberviri]

personally the issue i see with alternate times is thats really hard on the devs, i know most players dont care, cause if you have to get up one day at 1 to restart the server then tomorrow its 4 then next day its 7 then back to 1 then 5 then 3 then 12 then 10 your going to loose your mind.

I voted for fixed times how ever we could comprimise also and rotate the fixed times on a weekly basis. one week it could be 2am PSt next week it could be 2PM PST

[JCatano]

Poll for selective down time.

Vote here for what you prefer as maintenance times.

Saturday & Sunday (should the server have maintenance?)

That shouldn't even be a question that needs to be asked. A game with a large, seamless map and lots of processes needs daily maintenance.

Go with fixed maintenance. Trying to cater a rolling maintenance to the playerbase is dumb, especially when most of the people asking for it (Aussies atm) are likely a small percentage of the subscribers. Also, you'd constantly be trying to adjust a rolling maintenance, since subscriber numbers always change.

3am-4am PST. It is an NA-based game after all.

[wolf_rt]

it doesnt have to rotate into prime time, just not smack in the middle of my play time every day..

A poll? obviously the prime time players dont want it in there play time, and obviously there are more of them....

the fact that the majority of players want to stick Aust with the DT doesnt mean myself and many ausies wont leave if we cop it every day.

[JCatano]

It's always going to be in the middle of someone's playtime. I don't really know of a game that caters to Aussie players with regard to downtime. There is no reason to base something on a small % of the playerbase.

I also don't know of a game that does a rolling maintenance. That's just inefficient and waste of manpower that Xsyon doesn't have. The rolling maintenance would always need to be monitored and adjusted because of subscription numbers.

NA-based game. NA-based maintenance. (Seems to be a good amount of EU people, though).


By the way... Love the loaded poll:

"stagarded maintenance times (they change to keep most people happy)"

Haha

Staggered maintenance would upset your largest concentration of population the most.

[Sabina]

I am an Aussie player and maintenance happens right in the middle of my prime time, but you know what. It doesnt really matter - we were told it would be one hour last night, but it was only 40 minutes, they are going to try and get those times even lower. Its no big deal, if people are kicking up because they are missing an hour or less of gaming them then they have some serious problems. I voted to keep the time at the same time every day, if you stagger it around then you are going to get tonnes of posts moaning why are the servers down! I dont care when it is done as long as it keeps the game running smoothly.

[dezgard]

Thank you for all your reply's, the poll is mostly to catch the general feeling of the players and to give us a better idea of what we should plan for in the future.

So relax sit back post your opinion.


(Click here for a nice cool/ice beer)

[wolf_rt]

Sabina, its about immersion not play time.

last night my partner played for 45 min and myself for 18 min before DT. After DT we did not log back on, we were doing other things.

Obviously, theres no point, and i dont believe anyones sujesting that DT should be in prime (game) time, but can it not be moved 3-4 hours either side of its current location on a periodic schedule? even if it was a monthly change that would be fine by me.. but as it stands it is smack in the middle of my play time every weekday.

Xsyon, is a slow paced game, and time is required to enjoy playing it. I feel that it takes me about 20min to become immersed in the game. this leaves me with 40min (make that 25 min if i log off 15min early as requested) of productive play time (its hard to be productive in xsyon in 40min) before DT, and 1h 40min after, before i have to go to bed to get up and go to my crappy job. so i can get home, just start to unwind and the server goes down... this is why i have a problem with the fixed downtime, not because i loose an hour a day.

Also the poll is fairly badly flawed. The wording sujests that it would be rotated around the entire 24hr period..I dont believe anyone believes that DT should be when there are MAX players on..lol

Also, im assuming that the majority of players are american? thus fairly happy with the current arangement?

i feel that the fact that nearly 40% of people have voted to stagger the times is telling, im sure nowhere near 40% of the population of the game is affected by the current DT.

That means many people who are currently unaffected, are voting to possibly end up having DT in there play hours. these people must understand what a game wrecking experiance it can be to have DT in the middle of your after-work gaming. I would like to thank these people very much for voting the way they did.

[dna13]

As an Aussie I don't expect DT to be in prime US play time, however I think it could be moved around on a rotating basis. Not a different time everyday as this would be confusing to players, but surely there are other low user times that could take a share of the DT on a weekly/fortnightly/monthy basis. Being so far from the server we already deal with higher ping but still want to play and contribute to our tribes. I know we have a small number of players, we are, after all a small country as far as populations go. I have quit several games because DT was always in the middle of prime play time. It isn't becasue I miss out on an hour of play but because my play is interrupted and I find something else to do. I realy enjoy this game and less than 1 hour of play a day is not worth a paid subscription (once we start paying).
I understand that DT will always be an inconvenience to some players, whether from a particular time zone or because of their work roster, however it would be nice if it wasn't the same people everyday forever. I would feel this way if it was moved out of my prime time and another group of people were getting it all the time. I would still have voted for it to be rotating as I don't want to see anyone leaving or not enjoying the game because of DT.

[Plague]

You are missing "no downtime" option. This is like chosing to be hit by a bat or by a hammer. I would rather not get hit at all. No vote from me.

[Sionate]

"As an Aussie I don't expect DT to be in prime US play time, however I think it could be moved around on a rotating basis. Not a different time everyday as this would be confusing to players, but surely there are other low user times that could take a share of the DT on a weekly/fortnightly/monthy basis. Being so far from the server we already deal with higher ping but still want to play and contribute to our tribes. I know we have a small number of players, we are, after all a small country as far as populations go. I have quit several games because DT was always in the middle of prime play time. It isn't becasue I miss out on an hour of play but because my play is interrupted and I find something else to do. I realy enjoy this game and less than 1 hour of play a day is not worth a paid subscription (once we start paying).
I understand that DT will always be an inconvenience to some players, whether from a particular time zone or because of their work roster, however it would be nice if it wasn't the same people everyday forever. I would feel this way if it was moved out of my prime time and another group of people were getting it all the time. I would still have voted for it to be rotating as I don't want to see anyone leaving or not enjoying the game because of DT. "


As an Aussie aswell I agree altinating times would be best but i do acept that we are the minority when it comes to players should we suffer just because of our position in the world? As for one of the above comments i will ignore it for now .

A good compromise i think is needed i dont need another EVE online where my main play times are taken up purley by maintaince.Though

"how ever we could comprimise also and rotate the fixed times on a weekly basis. one week it could be 2am PSt next week it could be 2PM PST "

Is a good idea .

I dont mind having Maintaince arround my normal play time just as long as its not every time during my normal play time.

[JCatano]

"As an Aussie I don't expect DT to be in prime US play time, however I think it could be moved around on a rotating basis. Not a different time everyday as this would be confusing to players, but surely there are other low user times that could take a share of the DT on a weekly/fortnightly/monthy basis. Being so far from the server we already deal with higher ping but still want to play and contribute to our tribes. I know we have a small number of players, we are, after all a small country as far as populations go. I have quit several games because DT was always in the middle of prime play time. It isn't becasue I miss out on an hour of play but because my play is interrupted and I find something else to do. I realy enjoy this game and less than 1 hour of play a day is not worth a paid subscription (once we start paying).
I understand that DT will always be an inconvenience to some players, whether from a particular time zone or because of their work roster, however it would be nice if it wasn't the same people everyday forever. I would feel this way if it was moved out of my prime time and another group of people were getting it all the time. I would still have voted for it to be rotating as I don't want to see anyone leaving or not enjoying the game because of DT. "


As an Aussie aswell I agree altinating times would be best but i do acept that we are the minority when it comes to players should we suffer just because of our position in the world? As for one of the above comments i will ignore it for now .

A good compromise i think is needed i dont need another EVE online where my main play times are taken up purley by maintaince.Though

"how ever we could comprimise also and rotate the fixed times on a weekly basis. one week it could be 2am PSt next week it could be 2PM PST "

Is a good idea .

I dont mind having Maintaince arround my normal play time just as long as its not every time during my normal play time.

Yeah, it's a great idea to interrupt the playtime of an NA-based game anywhere from 2PM-6PM (depending on zone), especially when it's very likely that the majority of the playerbase is NA. "Not."

I've had a home office for the past 10 years and have played all times of the day in many MMOs. The afternoon is not necessarily a light time of day with regard to population.

[reonhato]

as an aussie player i use the downtime to have dinner.

ive played many MMOs and most will have downtime during what is considered aussie primetime simply because it is when all the yanks are in bed. i much prefer having it the same time every night so i can plan my night around it. i dont want to have to keep track of server downtimes, especially since even if they did vary chances are it would be over a 6-12 hour period, not 24 so id still end up having the downtime during my play hours 8 out of 10 times anyway... just now i have 8 times to keep track of instead of 1

[blackzilla]

Poll for selective down time.

Vote here for what you prefer as maintenance times.

Saturday & Sunday (should the server have maintenance?)

Your original suggested times were fine. There is no need to cater this much to the community. The proposed time is not primetime anywhere. Most individuals should be working from 6am-6pm. Also an hour is not game breaking for the couple people who sit home all day playing this game. They are the same vocal minority on these boards, don't be fooled.

[Sionate]

Well as this seems to have been a slinging match cause the yanks will complain just have them fixed us Aussies in the minority will adapt like we always do and work arround d.t god forbid we upset the majority.

By the way Devs thanks for trying and we do apreasate it. though it seems dt doesnt really effect me cause i am a west aussie its my last hour at work . but i would still like to see it shared arround.

[mmogaddict]

That's why I suggested just changing the downtime a little to this:

PDT Midnight - 1am
EDT 3-4am
UTC 7-8am
BST 8-9am (London)
CEST 9-10am (Paris etc)
China 3-4pm
AEST 5-6pm
NZ 7-8pm

It's outside pretty much everyones Primetime (6pm to Midnight local) except for the Kiwis. Not only that but it also be handy for logging off any bots that some players might leave running overnight.

[wolf_rt]

Your original suggested times were fine. There is no need to cater this much to the community. The proposed time is not primetime anywhere. Most individuals should be working from 6am-6pm. Also an hour is not game breaking for the couple people who sit home all day playing this game. They are the same vocal minority on these boards, don't be fooled.

Im not saying im in a majority, just that im leaving if the downtime stays where it is.. It IS game breaking for me..

many australians can no doubt deal with having there game interupted every day, forever.. i can not
you may say that many games have there DT in australian prime time.. i don't play them. The persistant inturuption to my game in EVE was one of the major reasons i no longer play that game.

surely some arangement can be reached so the same people don't experiance DT at a game wrecking time continuiously. These people WILL leave the game, when there is no call for them to.. even swapping the DT back and fowards 2-3 hours on a weekly basis, would make it worthwile for those people to play the game, as there weekday gaming experiance would only be ruined 1/2 the time.

[JCatano]

Im not saying im in a majority, just that im leaving if the downtime stays where it is.. It IS game breaking for me..

many australians can no doubt deal with having there game interupted every day, forever.. i can not
you may say that many games have there DT in australian prime time.. i don't play them. The persistant inturuption to my game in EVE was one of the major reasons i no longer play that game.

surely some arangement can be reached so the same people don't experiance DT at a game wrecking time continuiously. These people WILL leave the game, when there is no call for them to.. even swapping the DT back and fowards 2-3 hours on a weekly basis, would make it worthwile for those people to play the game, as there weekday gaming experiance would only be ruined 1/2 the time.

Who are all of these people that will quit? Make a poll! Let's see the faux threats...? :)

If Jordi is going to change his original downtime for a few Aussies... The guy will be labeled with Try To Make Everyone Happy syndrome. That never works out, especially in this case.


mmogaddict -

Your table almost seems most convenient to Aussies. I'm sure no CST/PST NA people play on the weekends at midnight. Or... College students during the week and/or weekend. ;)


Business sense comes into play here. Not just, "Well, a small percentage of players are threatening to quit if we don't change or rotate downtime, so let's keep them happy by upsetting the larger percentage of the playerbase". There is a reason why Australia gets the short end of the stick when talking about downtimes in many MMOs, and it's not about hurting feelings. It's business.

Now, if Jordi does some research and most of the current playerbase is being interrupted in their main play times, then I'd be fine with changing it. Why? Because, it would make sense business-wise.

[joexxxz]

Is there is a reason why the downtime have to be everyday? Can it be 2 times a week? Or 1 time a week?

[JCatano]

Is there is a reason why the downtime have to be everyday? Can it be 2 times a week? Or 1 time a week?


Games with large, seamless maps are the ones that usually need daily maintenance, although ones with zones still need it if they have large clusters. Not having a daily maintenance for these games would be like refusing to defrag your home PC for about 5 years.

..........

[Kinslayer]

All I can say is that I will be pretty pissed off if it stays at the time it is now, every night. I only get to play a few hours a day, like 2-3, 3 if Im lucky, and to lose 1 hr out of that, really just isnt on. I will have to seriously question whether its worth my $15/mth if I cant play when I want, every day of the week.

If the time was staggered so that I only have to put up with this interruption for say 2 nights per week, then I wouldnt be so pissed off, and could learn to live with it. I dont see why a select group of players should be punished for server maintenance endlessly, it should be shared around to other off peak times as well. There's not that many of us playing constantly afterall, so spread the love.

[joexxxz]

..........
Games that have bad design......, is that what you ment???
The reason why u need to defrag is because of this kind of design.


All I can say is that I will be pretty pissed off if it stays at the time it is now, every night. I only get to play a few hours a day, like 2-3, 3 if Im lucky, and to lose 1 hr out of that, really just isnt on. I will have to seriously question whether its worth my $15/mth if I cant play when I want, every day of the week.

If the time was staggered so that I only have to put up with this interruption for say 2 nights per week, then I wouldnt be so pissed off, and could learn to live with it. I dont see why a select group of players should be punished for server maintenance endlessly, it should be shared around to other off peak times as well. There's not that many of us playing constantly afterall, so spread the love.
Good point +1 ;)

[Sirius]

Is there is a reason why the downtime have to be everyday? Can it be 2 times a week? Or 1 time a week?

I think that if they don't bring the server down every day, the server will bring itself down every day. So it's better this way :)

[joexxxz]

I think that if they don't bring the server down every day, the server will bring itself down every day. So it's better this way :)

Lol. You made me laugh.

[MrDDT]

All I can say is that I will be pretty pissed off if it stays at the time it is now, every night. I only get to play a few hours a day, like 2-3, 3 if Im lucky, and to lose 1 hr out of that, really just isnt on. I will have to seriously question whether its worth my $15/mth if I cant play when I want, every day of the week.

If the time was staggered so that I only have to put up with this interruption for say 2 nights per week, then I wouldnt be so pissed off, and could learn to live with it. I dont see why a select group of players should be punished for server maintenance endlessly, it should be shared around to other off peak times as well. There's not that many of us playing constantly afterall, so spread the love.


I will say this again clearly people have no clue as to what it will do.
PUT THE SERVER DOWNTIME AT WHATEVER TIME THE LEAST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE PLAY!

Using your own data. Lets just say 1000 people are playing at your time. If they move it back 1 hour, 1500 people are playing then, if they move it forward, 1500 people are playing then.

They have a choice. Piss off 1500 people, or piss of 1000 people. Hmm let me think what would be better for the game?

What I keep seeing in posts like this is "I" "I" "I". Remove yourself from the problem and think for a min. What is best for the game? Best is to put it at the time the LEAST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE ARE PLAYING!.

If that's at 8PM EST then put it at 8PM EST. If thats at 7AM EST, then put it at 7AM EST.

What part of this dont you understand? I can cry all day "OMG I come home from work at XYZ time and I only can play XYZ+1hour, if this doesnt change Im quiting" SO WHAT??? Its better than having MORE people quit because you put it at THEIR TIME!!!

[joexxxz]

@MrDDT. Why are u a guest and not a Subscriber???

[MrDDT]

@MrDDT. Why are u a guest and not a Subscriber???

Because Im special.

[JCatano]

Games that have bad design......, is that what you ment???
The reason why u need to defrag is because of this kind of design.

No, although it could be part of the issue. Here is fact:

Even the best developed MMO code would need a daily when the map/cluster/system is seamless/dynamic/huge. All of the processes going on are being swapped around at massive rates. They will get disorganized even with the best code. Go tell CCP their code sucks and they just might tell you to fuck yourself. :P

[Book]

Okay, so let's say we completely disregard the compassionate/empathetic standpoint and focus on the business standpoint only.

Perhaps there are fewer players at the current downtime, which appears to be Australian prime time, than at any other time. Business logic would tell some to do it then since it will anger the fewest.

On the other hand, it appears that this is what many game companies are doing currently. Perhaps it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There are the fewest number of players at that time because the downtimes are organized in such a way that wouldn't facilitate there being more customers at this time.

Again, purely from a business standpoint, might it not make sense for an indie game company to buck the trend? Would NG attract a greater number of players in Australia and other locations in that part of the world if it offered a service that did not interrupt their prime time? I would imagine any company willing to try this approach may in fact attract more players from the region in question.

I'm not suggesting NG should accommodate a single individual working the night shift. I'm merely pointing out that we're talking about an entire demographic. A demographic that seems to have been overlooked by bigger game companies that have numbers allowing them to do so. If one is to make the argument that this is purely a business question, all variables should be taken into consideration and opportunities not overlooked by jumping at the simplest and quickest thought that comes to mind.

[joexxxz]

No, although it could be part of the issue. Here is fact:

Even the best developed MMO code would need a daily when the map/cluster/system is seamless/dynamic/huge. All of the processes going on are being swapped around at massive rates. They will get disorganized even with the best code. Go tell CCP their code sucks and they just might tell you to fuck yourself. :P
Yes their code sucks. Let me tell you something. One of the reason is when creating small memory chunks, it becomes scattered all over the place. This is why the game slows down dramatically. Instead allocating small chunks, you can pre allocate a huge memory chunk. Like for example, a scroll window. Each line of text can be allocated at input, or you can create a buffer to hold 20 lines at each allocation. ;)

[JCatano]

Book, this is why:

http://www.gamesindustry.com/about-newzoo/todaysgamers_graphs_MMO

That doesn't even include Canada. It's not a suprise that an indie company (or any MMO company) based in the United States would work downtime around that particular area.

The Asia-Pacific market is large, but dominated by China and Korea. Australia is way down the list, and I don't notice too many Asians playing Xsyon, either.

So, yeah... Purely business.

[Kinslayer]

I will say this again clearly people have no clue as to what it will do.
PUT THE SERVER DOWNTIME AT WHATEVER TIME THE LEAST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE PLAY!

Using your own data. Lets just say 1000 people are playing at your time. If they move it back 1 hour, 1500 people are playing then, if they move it forward, 1500 people are playing then.

They have a choice. Piss off 1500 people, or piss of 1000 people. Hmm let me think what would be better for the game?

What I keep seeing in posts like this is "I" "I" "I". Remove yourself from the problem and think for a min. What is best for the game? Best is to put it at the time the LEAST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE ARE PLAYING!.

If that's at 8PM EST then put it at 8PM EST. If thats at 7AM EST, then put it at 7AM EST.

What part of this dont you understand? I can cry all day "OMG I come home from work at XYZ time and I only can play XYZ+1hour, if this doesnt change Im quiting" SO WHAT??? Its better than having MORE people quit because you put it at THEIR TIME!!!Fuckin oath its "I" "I" "I". What makes you think that just cos Im thinking about number one, means I dont understand something? There is something your opinion does not take into account. If your constantly pissing off 1000 people, like your scenario suggests, thats 1000 people that will leave, not the 1 "I". Instead, you can stagger it, so that everyone is put at a slight inconvenience, rather than constantly pissing a whole group off every day.

So here's an idea... back the fuck off and let people have their say, and put their input into the discussion, without crucifying it straight away. Its not all about you either pal.

[JCatano]

Yes their code sucks. Let me tell you something. One of the reason is when creating small memory chunks, it becomes scattered all over the place. This is why the game slows down dramatically. Instead allocating small chunks, you can pre allocate a huge memory chunk. Like for example, a scroll window. Each line of text can be allocated at input, or you can create a buffer to hold 20 lines at each allocation. ;)

Yes, we know it needs work. That doesn't mean if it's improved the game won't need a daily. Many MMOs have a daily for a reason, and it's not because they all have shitty code.

[joexxxz]

Yes, we know it needs work. That doesn't mean if it's improved the game won't need a daily. Many MMOs have a daily for a reason, and it's not because they all have shitty code.

One reason, 1 hour * 31 days, thats 31 hours off the grid a month. A server needs rest and to cooldown also ;)

[JCatano]

I hope you mean 31 hours. ;)

[joexxxz]

I hope you mean 31 hours. ;)
Thats right ;)

[wolf_rt]

Fuckin oath its "I" "I" "I". What makes you think that just cos Im thinking about number one, means I dont understand something? There is something your opinion does not take into account. If your constantly pissing off 1000 people, like your scenario suggests, thats 1000 people that will leave, not the 1 "I". Instead, you can stagger it, so that everyone is put at a slight inconvenience, rather than constantly pissing a whole group off every day.

So here's an idea... back the fuck off and let people have their say, and put their input into the discussion, without crucifying it straight away. Its not all about you either pal.

+1


exactly... why loose 1000 people or 100 or 1 when you dont need to, when a system could be implemented, so that ***NONE*** leave?

i dont have a huge intrest in mmo gaming.. i have played EVE and this game.. i would consider playing Darkfall or MO, however, MO is broken from all accounts, and darkfall has DT in aussie prime time too.. so if i leave this game then NOBODY will have my money.

How is it considered good business sense to alienate your customers when a simple change could be implemented to appease them?

People like Kinslayer, myself and my partner WILL leave if there 3-4hr window of playtime is interuped EVERY DAY FOREVER...

JCatano, MrDDT, why do you care?? the DT is NEVER going to be in 'your' prime time.. and has likley never been for any game you may have played, how do you feel yourself qualified to judge how this affects peoples gaming?

[MrDDT]

+1


exactly... why loose 1000 people or 100 or 1 when you dont need to, when a system could be implemented, so that ***NONE*** leave?

i dont have a huge intrest in mmo gaming.. i have played EVE and this game.. i would consider playing Darkfall or MO, however, MO is broken from all accounts, and darkfall has DT in aussie prime time too.. so if i leave this game then NOBODY will have my money.

How is it considered good business sense to alienate your customers when a simple change could be implemented to appease them?

People like Kinslayer, myself and my partner WILL leave if there 3-4hr window of playtime is interuped EVERY DAY FOREVER...

JCatano, MrDDT, why do you care?? the DT is NEVER going to be in 'your' prime time.. and has likley never been for any game you may have played, how do you feel yourself qualified to judge how this affects peoples gaming?


You should look at my posts on here, and you will see my prime time is 24/7.
All the downtimes would effect me.

You cant please everyone, unless you never take the servers down (Then again then everyone would be unhappy when it crashes or lags).

Someone was saying about an untapped market. Sure that could be possible save for one thing, why are they not playing it before when there wasnt a downtime? Point is why people forget about AUS is because there are so few players there.

Kinslayer, Im not stopping you from having your say. You can have your say. Im pointing out facts. Fact is few people play during your prime time. Thats when the downtime should be. If I were running a company thats what I would do. I wouldnt want to put it during another time when it would piss off MORE people that makes NO sense.

If you rotate the times, you still have the problem only its pissing even MORE people off.

[mmogaddict]

This WILL make the difference between whether I renew or not.

I come home around 6pmish, start play around 6:30pm normally, now with an hours break at 7pm till 8pm, that pretty much makes it not worth logging on till at least 8pm or later.

If that is going to be the case for 5 days a week, I am certainly not going to subscribe with either of my accounts.

And frankly at the moment, NG needs all the subscribers it can get.

Also I think you find people grossly exaggerate the population difference between peak time and offpeak time.

The best example to look at is EVE that actually publishers it's online numbers though out the day. http://www.eveonline.com/

Look at the server graph.

The offpeak population is 22,000 just before and after shutdown. The peak population is 47,000.

It is NOT the case that you have 5000 people on at peak time and 50 at off as some people seem to think. It is around the line of 1000 at peak and 450 at offpeak. (Mind you I don't EITHER populations are that high at this present time. Probably half those.)

[orious13]

Doesn't matter to me. It's only ~1 hour.

[JCatano]

This WILL make the difference between whether I renew or not.

Will you take all 25 Aussies with you?

[wolf_rt]

my tribe is made up of mainly aussies, its the only tribe with over 10 members in our zone.. the same applies for the zone below us.. the largest tribe is majority aussie. (the 2 americans in our tribe play the same times as the aussies, mostly because if we're not on the zone is deserted 24hr a day)

if 'all 25' aussies left (they must all be in those two zones) then there is 2 more zones with NO active players....

[JCatano]

my tribe is made up of mainly aussies, its the only tribe with over 10 members in our zone.. the same applies for the zone below us.. the largest tribe is majority aussie. (the 2 americans in our tribe play the same times as the aussies, mostly because if we're not on the zone is deserted 24hr a day)

if 'all 25' aussies left (they must all be in those two zones) then there is 2 more zones with NO active players....

I can play that game.

I'll have my tribe of 9 quit, and we'll bring a few more with us if Jordi changes an NA-based downtime. Sounds silly, yeah? Yep.

[Kinslayer]

Im just curious why anyone needs to be pissed off? All Im saying is that I wont stand for all 5 days to be shutdown in my playtime. Would you sub if you were put in that position? There is no reason why the downtimes cant be staggered, and still keep it out of the precious yankee primetime.

Just FYI though, I play every night in my primetime with mostly US guys, so its not a case of just forgetting about the Aussies. This is an international game, it was sold to people worldwide, but now all of a sudden its all about the yanks? Sorry, that doesnt cut it. This is a simple customer service issue. Why piss off any of your customers when you dont need to? By putting the downtime at the same time everyday, you WILL lose customers. By moving it and making each group only have to deal with 2 days of downtime each week, Im sure we can all live with that.

But fuck it, I wont be paying for a game I cant play. If you think thats whinging, so be it, but ask yourself if you would put up with it.

[JCatano]

Im just curious why anyone needs to be pissed off? All Im saying is that I wont stand for all 5 days to be shutdown in my playtime. Would you sub if you were put in that position? There is no reason why the downtimes cant be staggered, and still keep it out of the precious yankee primetime.

Just FYI though, I play every night in my primetime with mostly US guys, so its not a case of just forgetting about the Aussies. This is an international game, it was sold to people worldwide, but now all of a sudden its all about the yanks? Sorry, that doesnt cut it. This is a simple customer service issue. Why piss off any of your customers when you dont need to? By putting the downtime at the same time everyday, you WILL lose customers. By moving it and making each group only have to deal with 2 days of downtime each week, Im sure we can all live with that.

But fuck it, I wont be paying for a game I cant play. If you think thats whinging, so be it, but ask yourself if you would put up with it.

Staggering will piss off more. Think about it. Pretty sure it's already been partially explained by someone.

Saying they will lose customers because of having the same downtime... Yeah, I guess the fact that all MMOs have a set downtime makes your threat 100% meaningful.

Bottom line: Downtime is set when the least amount of population is on. Jordi obviously (assuming he has a bit of common sense) examined his logs and that's why it was set at the current time. It's a smart business move.

[Kinslayer]

Staggering will piss off more. Think about it. Pretty sure it's already been partially explained by someone.

Saying they will lose customers because of having the same downtime... Yeah, I guess the fact that all MMOs have a set downtime makes your threat 100% meaningful.

Bottom line: Downtime is set when the least amount of population is on. Jordi obviously (assuming he has a bit of common sense) examined his logs and that's why it was set at the current time. It's a smart business move.K, Im not going to go around in circles in this conversation. You really should think about it too, it's an easy thing to see that shutting down an international game every single day at the same time is simply bad business. Im actually shocked to hear of other "big" games doing it, cos Ive never come across it in any other game Ive ever played, and I've been MMO'ing for many years.

I cant help but wonder though... do you even play JCatano? I know DDT generally doesnt, he's been here for all of about 2 days in the past 3mths, so... I dont recall ever seeing you in game either, so... Just curious, cos I've seen it so many times before, where the most vocal people in a subject like this, dont even play the fucking game. This poll should honestly be run in game, not in these forums that a fraction of the player base read.

[JCatano]

K, Im not going to go around in circles in this conversation. You really should think about it too, it's an easy thing to see that shutting down an international game every single day at the same time is simply bad business. Im actually shocked to hear of other "big" games doing it, cos Ive never come across it in any other game Ive ever played, and I've been MMO'ing for many years.

I cant help but wonder though... do you even play JCatano? I know DDT generally doesnt, he's been here for all of about 2 days in the past 3mths, so... I dont recall ever seeing you in game either, so... Just curious, cos I've seen it so many times before, where the most vocal people in a subject like this, dont even play the fucking game. This poll should honestly be run in game, not in these forums that a fraction of the player base read.

Shocked? Haha. List some single server MMOs that have a rotating downtime. Also, list MMOs with multiple country servers that rotate downtime within that particular country. Furthermore, find some NA-based servers that are set, or rotate, into populated NA windows.

Star Wars Galaxies servers are restarted on a regular basis. The current schedule is:

Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday at 4 AM PST for all US servers (ABL & SDK)
Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday at 8 PM PST for all European servers (AMS)

Normal restarts can take about 2 hours to complete.

When maintenance or a game update is scheduled to be deployed, all servers (US and European) will be brought down at the same time and the downtime may be extended.

---

DAoC -

During what hours will server maintenance be performed?

We strive to start maintenance at the least impactful time of day for all of our players. This usually results in midday GMT maintenance windows.

(I played DAoC for 3 years and maintenance was always started between 4am-5am PST.)

---

EVE -

When is the daily server downtime, how does it affect my gameplay and why is it necessary?

As a result of CCP's attempt to create one large server for everyone to play on, the EVE server requires a certain amount of periodic maintenance. As a result, there is an official daily downtime from 11:00 to 12:00 GMT every day (though it may at times be shorter).

---

WoW -

Rolling restart:

The servers are restarted and are generally available again within 15 minutes. This typically occurs at 5am Pacific Time for US servers, and 2pm Pacific time for Oceanic.

Realm Maintenance:

The realms are brought down for up to 6 hours, usually commencing at 5am Pacific Time for US and Oceanic realms.

Extended Realm Maintenance:

The realms are brought down for up to 8 hours, commencing at 3am Pacific Time for US and Oceanic realms.

---

AION:

Wed 13th April
11:00AM BST

Wed 13th April
03:00AM PST

Wed 13th April
21:00PM EST (Australia)

---

Darkfall NA and EU servers go down at 4am PST.

---

It's such bad business that they all do it, anyway...!...? Even in some MMOs that have country dedicated servers, the downtime still lies within NA off-peak hours.

Zone 702 | 430-700

Bought this game back in February '10.

Maybe, you don't "see" me ingame because of local chat. *light bulb*

[wolf_rt]

well, if all the other mmo's that i don't play have fixed DT it MUST be good business sense.

how is the DT being moved a few hours either side of the current position on occasion going to affect you 'JC'? not a bit i should expect...

so since it will likley never be an issue for you either way, why not let the '25' people who are badly affected by the current situation have an occasional break?

Edit: remembering also that 25 people could well be 5% of the game population come subscription time.


Even in some MMOs that have country dedicated servers, the downtime still lies within NA off-peak hours.

Mate, i dont think one single person thinks the downtime should be in NA prime time.. why do you keep coming back to this?

[Jadzia]

What about a regular maintenance from 7am-8am PST ? Americans are in bed-work by then, euros are on the way home from work. Would it be a good timing for aussies ?

[dxwarlock]

didnt read the entire 6 pages of posts, but is one hour of not being able to play an avatar in a game THAT big a deal? it still has 95% uptime for you to play each day.
that 5% downtime is a dealbreaker for you?

and no its not a defense of the time they do it, hell they could decide "we will wait until dxwarlock logs in, THEN announce downtime everyday". I played eve for 3 years, and worked nights..downtime was during my primetime for my schedule. that hour wasn't that big a loss..really. gave me time to get some food, a drink, catch up on mail, chat on TS to corpmates about the day and whats going on ingame.

I just think if loosing 5% of the day to downtime is a dealbreaker for you, then your interest in the game isn't that high to start with. (in my opinion.)

[Jadzia]

Well, a lot of players have only 3-4 hours to play daily, and usually at the same time, say from 7pm-11pm. Losing 1 hour would mean losing 25-30% of their playtime, so I can understand if that upsets them. (And no, I'm not Australian :) )

[dxwarlock]

Well, a lot of players have only 3-4 hours to play daily, and usually at the same time, say from 7pm-11pm. Losing 1 hour would mean losing 25-30% of their playtime, so I can understand if that upsets them. (And no, I'm not Australian :) )

oh I understand that part, I really do.
but if its rotation downtime...dont see how it will help.

you leave it one set time, you loose say, 10% of players from one timezone...
you make it rotating, less will leave but some will still not like downtime in thier zone (say 5%) from each timezone its in.
so you loose 10% of people..or 2 sets of 5%. the end result is the same.

[Jadzia]

True, thats why it would be nice to find a fixed time which is out of everyone's prime time...if there is such a time. Thats why I asked if 7am-8am PST could work.

[dxwarlock]

as rude as it sounds, and careless for your userbase as individual players...its best to follow the model all the others do purely from a business standpoint. if not having a downtime is not an option.
its best to place the downtime in the primetime of an area where your playerbase is the lowest, so your losses that are inevitable, are as minimized as much as possible.

[Jadzia]

as rude as it sounds, and careless for your userbase as individual players...its best to follow the model all the others do purely from a business standpoint. if not having a downtime is not an option.
its best to place the downtime in the primetime of an area where your playerbase is the lowest, so your losses that are inevitable, are as minimized as much as possible.

Or to a time which isn't primetime for anyone :) Right now its 7 35am PST, the time that I suggested for maintenance....hardly anyone is on on the forum, and probably they are browsing the forum from work :P Its midnight or later for the most part of Australia.

[dxwarlock]

yea, same thing I was trying to say..but a nicer way to put it :)

[MrDDT]

K, Im not going to go around in circles in this conversation. You really should think about it too, it's an easy thing to see that shutting down an international game every single day at the same time is simply bad business. Im actually shocked to hear of other "big" games doing it, cos Ive never come across it in any other game Ive ever played, and I've been MMO'ing for many years.

I cant help but wonder though... do you even play JCatano? I know DDT generally doesnt, he's been here for all of about 2 days in the past 3mths, so... I dont recall ever seeing you in game either, so... Just curious, cos I've seen it so many times before, where the most vocal people in a subject like this, dont even play the fucking game. This poll should honestly be run in game, not in these forums that a fraction of the player base read.

I love the personal attacks.
So because I played only the last 2 days thats ok for you to disregard my comments?

Besides, I likely play just as much in the last 2 days as most people have played in a week. On top of that, once (or if) I were to start playing again. The downtime would effect me just as much as you. As my play times are off prime time for USA. (Normally 1pm EST, til about 9am EST. Yes I do play games that much).

[JCatano]

well, if all the other mmo's that i don't play have fixed DT it MUST be good business sense.

how is the DT being moved a few hours either side of the current position on occasion going to affect you 'JC'? not a bit i should expect...

so since it will likley never be an issue for you either way, why not let the '25' people who are badly affected by the current situation have an occasional break?

Edit: remembering also that 25 people could well be 5% of the game population come subscription time.



Mate, i dont think one single person thinks the downtime should be in NA prime time.. why do you keep coming back to this?

List those MMOs with a rotating downtime that you've played, so we can look to see how they do it. Making sure the smaller percentage of your playerbase is the happiest is not good business. This isn't a business where you can tailor service to each group of people. Downtime is a straightforward operation.

Why do I keep coming back to it? Well, because I'm not speaking about only primetime. Most of NA off-peak hours would still likely make Australians the minority. Move it to midnight PST and you're cutting into playtime of 5 ½ states (4 ½ half of the year) with one being California; a very populated state. Toss in the late nighters from all the other states (and provinces).

If you use Jadzia's suggestion... Same deal. 7am-8am PST makes it anywhere from 8am-11am for the rest of NA. You don't think college students with afternoon classes aren't trying to play at those times? People working later hour service jobs (servers, bartenders, nightshift jobs)? What about weekends when pre-college/college students don't have class and many in the work force are off? Summertime when there isn't any class for 3 months? That isn't going add up to more than "25" Aussies?

This doesn't even include Canada, Mexico, and South America which have similar times to NA. Haven't noticed any players from the two latter, though. You can even throw Hawaii in there if needed. They are 3 hours behind PST at the moment.

Now, if by "a few" you really mean 2 or 3 hours, then it could work off the current time when talking about a later maintenance. That would put it at 4am or 5am. There is a reason why downtime for major games seem to fall around that 3am-5am PST range. It's not done by accident or coincidence. It's a study and practice. Those times must be the sweet spot, since so many operate maintenance around those times.

[Phazaar]

I literally get sick to death of the constant bull**** in these forums.

TL;DR: We all pay for the same access, we all want the same chances in game and the same stability on the gaming servers, necessitating these downtimes. We should therefore be happy to accept the downtimes being shared so we all have the same experience, rather than causing a MASSIVE detriment to a minority's experience in favour of the a minor detriment to all.

Before I start, this doesn't affect me. I'm not able to game in the affected hours, and I won't be able to for the foreseeable future :) I'm just a concerned onlooker!

There are two arguments people are thinly veiling their own self-righteous attempts to avoid disruption of their gaming time by disrupting other peoples here:

Utilitarianism. This is not an argument for democracy, for those of you getting patriotic about it. Though the two often go hand in hand, it is only their negative aspects that draw parallel: you are demanding mob rule. 'There are more of us than him, so what we want goes.' Aside from the fact that every civilisation ever has decided this (democracy nor utilitarianism) isn't a functioning model for society, we also have the fact that you commit a semantic fallacy in suggesting this argument.

The argument goes: '1000 people play at 5pm, and 5000 people play at 7pm. It's better that those 1000 people are pissed off than those 5000.' What we're saying here, is that 1000 people can suffer 100% of the time to assuage the suffering of 5000. Good if those were the only two options (and we couldn't give a shit about those 1000 people).

Let's try expanding the example, using some more arbitrary numbers (because as you'll notice, the numbers are irrelevant). Let's say everyone plays for one hour a day, logging on on the hour, and off at hour:59. People are online in a curve, 500 at 1am, 600 at 2am ...... 600 at 12am, 500 at 1am again.

What we can do is have a static time at 1am (lowest pop) and punish 500 people daily simply for being online when no one else is (an important element in immersion imho). 500 people take 100% of the suffering. Greater good for the greatest number of people, right? OR, we could have a rolling time, changing every hour; say, daily for now. One day it's 1am, next it's 2am, next it's 3am etc. This way, our 500 people now take 4.17% of the suffering. But oh wait, at 1pm, our ~2000 people now ALL get pissed off at the same time. 4.17% of the time. What we're saying is, we have two alternatives. 500 people suffer 100% of the time, or EVERYONE suffers EQUALLY 4.17% of the time.

The latter is, strictly speaking, a less utilitarian approach on the 'greatest number of people' bit, until you consider what we're talking about in terms of 'greatest good.' For me, 4.17% (higher because of extended hours of play, granted) of the days in the year, losing an hour of gaming time is a VERY minor inconvenience; especially if I know that I am not at any disadvantage because of it because everyone will have that same 4.17% (multiplied by however many hours they choose to play, granted). On the other hand, our aussie friends are facing losing that one hour -every- day, 100% of the time, during their prime time. For any casual user, this could easily be half if not more of their daily gaming time. This is far more than a minor inconvenience, and in my mind makes their case more merited than your 'WE R MANY' argument.

Business. This often goes hand in hand with the utilitarian argument (in the form of 'we MUST please the greatest number of people else we will be profit-less'). The clever bit here is the 'we's in that statement. You are not, nor should you be, a representative of the COMPANY YOU ARE PAYING. You should not defend them, their rights nor their choices. It is your job as their owner to regulate them into making the RIGHT choices for the CUSTOMERS, NOT their wallets. With indie games we all have this fear of them going under and us being left with nothing but the memory of 1's and 0's. This has the unfortunate effect of turning us all into 'fanbois', defending the interests of the people who take our money, instead of defending our rights as the people who line their pockets and should be receiving a fair and just service.

There is another logical fallacy at work here though. The NA camp seem to have this double standard, whereby them 'being pissed' once a week is equivocal to the Australian playerbase quitting because their gaming time is disrupted with perfect consistency. This seems to suggest the NA camp are saying that for 4.17% of the 'minor' inconvenience they're determined to set 100% of firmly on the AUS camp with some kind words to the effect of 'suck it up, you're a minority' (how very 21st century...), they'd leave. Then, in the same breath, we're seeing tonnes of 'let's see all the faux-quitting threads from AUS players.' Ignoring that hypocracy, the simple suggestion that they'd leave for suffering downtime once a week (or however often) is not only incredibly immature, but also completely detrimental to their point that 'it's just an hours downtime; the server needs it, so suck it up.'


Finally then, I've hinted at society, throughout this post. That's where the real argument here lies. If we consider 'us the players' to be the 'utilitarian' side of the argument, and Notorious to be the 'business' side, we both have a massive social responsibility, if this game is to succeed and we are to have the same relationship with it that no-doubt, most of us are attempting to preserve with our posts, recommendations etc. for years to come.

Notorious has a responsibility to us, the players, to make sure that every one of us has the same access and product for our money. We all pay the same $14.99, regardless of what currency it's converted from, so it simply isn't justifiable on their part of consistantly disadvantage their AUS playerbase.

We, though, have a responsibility that is much more optional. We have to decide what kind of community we want for OUR game, how inviting or uninviting we are to new-comers, how we treat those people outside of our peak times, and whether this is going to be a game 'by the players for the players' or 'by the players, for the developers wallets.' --Apologies to NG here, but there's a definite need for more 'sticking it to the man' in these forums; not because he's in the wrong, but because kicking and screaming is the only way to draw attention to oversights/falsehoods/mistakes/problems.

Once we've each made that decision, we need to behave that way in all senses, both in game and logistically with decisions like this. It strikes me that each and every one of us has an equal right to be here, and an equal right to have the servers run well, and an equal right to in-game time, so how on earth can we suddenly say that we don't each have an equal right to suffering downtime? It doesn't matter if it's 500 people we're inconveniencing; we should be happy to bear some of their burden if it means everyone's getting to play their fair share (given that they pay the same) and getting the same chance to fall in love with the game and the community.

The above is what a 3000 word 'industry essay' will cause by way of procrastination. If you don't like it, I suggest you petition my university to reduce word-counts drastically ;) Thanks for reading, if you have.

[Jadzia]

Wow. Impressive write-up, Phazaar ! I agree, we should take our share of the burden equally.

[JCatano]

The industry thinks your essay is poo. :)

If they didn't... They'd all having rolling downtimes.

P.S. -

We all have equal access to the game. Not having access to a game in an individual's preferred time slot doesn't make it otherwise.

[Phazaar]

The industry thinks your essay is poo. :)

If they didn't... They'd all having rolling downtimes.

P.S. -

We all have equal access to the game. Not having access to a game in an individual's preferred time slot doesn't make it otherwise.


That wasn't my essay hahaha, it was procrastination to avoid STARTING my essay ;)

My point was that we can choose how this community works, and since everything else in Xsyon is about going right where the industry has gone wrong, this is DEFINITELY not something I'd worry about breaking the trend with.

So clearly you'd have no problem then with downtime being placed in the middle of US prime-time, because they're all just PREFERRING to play then, but they can make other arrangements, right? No? Not even if this meant that everyone would get the same experience and the same disruption, so we all have the same chance to enjoy the game? Your community spirit is literally awful, sorry :/



Wow. Impressive write-up, Phazaar ! I agree, we should take our share of the burden equally.

Thanks for taking the time to read, Jadzia :)

[JCatano]

That wasn't my essay hahaha, it was procrastination to avoid STARTING my essay ;)

My point was that we can choose how this community works, and since everything else in Xsyon is about going right where the industry has gone wrong, this is DEFINITELY not something I'd worry about breaking the trend with.

So clearly you'd have no problem then with downtime being placed in the middle of US prime-time, because they're all just PREFERRING to play then, but they can make other arrangements, right? No? Not even if this meant that everyone would get the same experience and the same disruption, so we all have the same chance to enjoy the game? Your community spirit is literally awful, sorry :/

No, I wouldn't be ok with that. Why? Because the "greater good" stuff doesn't always relate to greater business. The latter is needed in order to even have a chance at any "good" at all. If you want to write a mini essay on why many, many MMOs have their downtimes in this 3am-5am PST window... Well, you see where I'm going with that. It's quite obvious why that is the case, though.

Maybe, the creators of Lost can move Australia closer to NA? ;)

[Phazaar]

No, I wouldn't be ok with that. Why? Because the "greater good" stuff doesn't always relate to greater business. The latter is needed in order to even have a chance at any "good" at all. If you want to write a mini essay on why many, many MMOs have their downtimes in this 3am-5am PST window... Well, you see where I'm going with that. It's quite obvious why that is the case, though.

Maybe, the creators of Lost can move Australia closer to NA? ;)

So you're back to the 'we'll all quit if we EVER have to see the servers down, but those guys? They should see them down every single day when they want to get online' argument. Are you seriously suggesting you feel the whole NA playerbase would quit for suffering 1/7th of the inconvenience you're suggesting the australians should? How pathetic. Do you not have even a slight element of community spirit for those people affected by this? Shouldering some of their burden seems to me to be the most natural human instinct, not least because of the overall intent of fostering a positive and diverse community (WAY more necessary to the success of this game than not interrupting your gaming once a week for an hour).

Once again, the fact that all of those developers do that is another reason that Xsyon can reap the rewards of leaving that direction altogether; so many people from time zones consistantly left out of events and burdened with downtime leave those other games. If we can treat everyone well and fairly here, we could foster a wider audience, keeping the world more populated round the clock and encouraging growth.

Lost references are Lost (see what I did there?) on me, sorry :)

[JCatano]

So you're back to the 'we'll all quit if we EVER have to see the servers down, but those guys? They should see them down every single day when they want to get online' argument. Are you seriously suggesting you feel the whole NA playerbase would quit for suffering 1/7th of the inconvenience you're suggesting the australians should? How pathetic. Do you not have even a slight element of community spirit for those people affected by this? Shouldering some of their burden seems to me to be the most natural human instinct, not least because of the overall intent of fostering a positive and diverse community (WAY more necessary to the success of this game than not interrupting your gaming once a week for an hour).

Once again, the fact that all of those developers do that is another reason that Xsyon can reap the rewards of leaving that direction altogether; so many people from time zones consistantly left out of events and burdened with downtime leave those other games. If we can treat everyone well and fairly here, we could foster a wider audience, keeping the world more populated round the clock and encouraging growth.

Lost references are Lost (see what I did there?) on me, sorry :)

Grasp at straws much? I'm talking business. You're talking about the "greater good", which obviously is at the expense of business, since most MMO downtimes are usually in the window already mentioned 9000 times.

Ask yourself a few questions:

- Why are most MMO downtimes usually around the current window? (Even many with multiple country servers)
- Why would an NA-based server use that same window?
- Was this window just a random choice that caught on; or is it a study related to market share, buying power demographics per location, and "least impactful time of day" (Mythic Entertainment quote)?
- How many MMOs use rolling downtimes?
- Which MMO is developed for the "greater good" and not business?

[Kinslayer]

Thank you Phazaar, you have put so eloquently into words what I have been trying to say.

Since his avoidance of my question, I'm still betting JCatano doesnt even play the game, but plays the forums every day. JC is all about asking questions, yet answering none. To answer one or two of your questions JC, MMO downtimes are never in the window currently used by Notorious in my experience. All MMO's I have played to date, have had their server downtime in the 7-9amPST bracket, which is the beginning of their usual work day, and a time when most normal gamers would be either at work or school. It puts it in the middle of the afternoon for most of Europe, and at about midnight for Australians, so this would be NOBODY's prime time. This would be the only solution to a permanent fixed server downtime in my books, and one that IS employed by other MMOs around the world. Perhaps you should research the downtimes of other MMO's a little better before mouthing off so freely.

If the downtime was placed in a time like this, where the real minimum amount of players were effected, then I wouldnt have a problem with a fixed downtime. If the downtime is continued to be placed in anyones primetime, then that is indeed bad business, and I fear NG will feel that before too long.

One last question for you JC. You argue so passionately for the business side of this subject, yet you personally have no interest in the business side of NG unless IM mistaken, so why do you feel the need to argue on Jooky's behalf then? I would be willing to bet that Jooky failed to check the timezones around the world before choosing this time, but we would only know that for sure if he were to have some input on the subject, same as we wouldnt know if he researched it at all like you say he did. I would be happy for you to show us your source for this information though if you can prove me wrong.

[JCatano]

Thank you Phazaar, you have put so eloquently into words what I have been trying to say.

Since his avoidance of my question, I'm still betting JCatano doesnt even play the game, but plays the forums every day. JC is all about asking questions, yet answering none. To answer one or two of your questions JC, MMO downtimes are never in the window currently used by Notorious in my experience. All MMO's I have played to date, have had their server downtime in the 7-9amPST bracket, which is the beginning of their usual work day, and a time when most normal gamers would be either at work or school. It puts it in the middle of the afternoon for most of Europe, and at about midnight for Australians, so this would be NOBODY's prime time. This would be the only solution to a permanent fixed server downtime in my books, and one that IS employed by other MMOs around the world. Perhaps you should research the downtimes of other MMO's a little better before mouthing off so freely.

If the downtime was placed in a time like this, where the real minimum amount of players were effected, then I wouldnt have a problem with a fixed downtime. If the downtime is continued to be placed in anyones primetime, then that is indeed bad business, and I fear NG will feel that before too long.

One last question for you JC. You argue so passionately for the business side of this subject, yet you personally have no interest in the business side of NG unless IM mistaken, so why do you feel the need to argue on Jooky's behalf then? I would be willing to bet that Jooky failed to check the timezones around the world before choosing this time, but we would only know that for sure if he were to have some input on the subject, same as we wouldnt know if he researched it at all like you say he did. I would be happy for you to show us your source for this information though if you can prove me wrong.

Go back and look at the post after you asked your irrelevant question. I answered you with an ingame location. I'm gathering branches as we speak.

I listed major MMOs with downtimes directly in that window. Maybe, you just chose to ignore them.

I want this game to succeed. In order to succeed, you follow a strong business plan. With most MMOs using that window you dislike so much, it's quite clear where the "least impactful time of day" area falls into.

If Xsyon were an EU or Oceanic server and/or the majority of the population were from those areas, I'd be 100% OK with downtime in NA primetime. Why? Because, it makes sense to initiate procedures that give you the best chance of success. All of these MMOs aren't interrupting Aussie primetime just because they think it's funny, ya know.

[mmogaddict]

What about a regular maintenance from 7am-8am PST ? Americans are in bed-work by then, euros are on the way home from work. Would it be a good timing for aussies ?

Yes, I've listed two 'better' options than the current downtime.

I'll relist here.

*** Northern Hemisphere Daylight/Summertime ***
PDT Midnight - 1am
EDT 3-4am
UTC 7-8am
BST 8-9am (London)
CEST 9-10am (Paris etc)
China 3-4pm
AEST 5-6pm
NZ 7-8pm

Note the hours would need to move during Southern Hemisphere Daylight/Summertime (Northern Winter)


The OTHER alternative for fixed times could be:

PDT 6-7am
EDT 9-10am
UTC 1-2pm
BST 2-3pm (London)
CEST 3-4pm (Paris etc)
China 9-10pm
AEST 11pm-Midnight
NZ 2-3am

For 7-8am PST add one hour to the times listed in the second option. The main goal of course is to keep it out of everyones 6pm - Midnight timeframe if possible.

[MrDDT]

I literally get sick to death of the constant bull**** in these forums.

TL;DR: We all pay for the same access, we all want the same chances in game and the same stability on the gaming servers, necessitating these downtimes. We should therefore be happy to accept the downtimes being shared so we all have the same experience, rather than causing a MASSIVE detriment to a minority's experience in favour of the a minor detriment to all.

Before I start, this doesn't affect me. I'm not able to game in the affected hours, and I won't be able to for the foreseeable future :) I'm just a concerned onlooker!

There are two arguments people are thinly veiling their own self-righteous attempts to avoid disruption of their gaming time by disrupting other peoples here:

Utilitarianism. This is not an argument for democracy, for those of you getting patriotic about it. Though the two often go hand in hand, it is only their negative aspects that draw parallel: you are demanding mob rule. 'There are more of us than him, so what we want goes.' Aside from the fact that every civilisation ever has decided this (democracy nor utilitarianism) isn't a functioning model for society, we also have the fact that you commit a semantic fallacy in suggesting this argument.

The argument goes: '1000 people play at 5pm, and 5000 people play at 7pm. It's better that those 1000 people are pissed off than those 5000.' What we're saying here, is that 1000 people can suffer 100% of the time to assuage the suffering of 5000. Good if those were the only two options (and we couldn't give a shit about those 1000 people).

Let's try expanding the example, using some more arbitrary numbers (because as you'll notice, the numbers are irrelevant). Let's say everyone plays for one hour a day, logging on on the hour, and off at hour:59. People are online in a curve, 500 at 1am, 600 at 2am ...... 600 at 12am, 500 at 1am again.

What we can do is have a static time at 1am (lowest pop) and punish 500 people daily simply for being online when no one else is (an important element in immersion imho). 500 people take 100% of the suffering. Greater good for the greatest number of people, right? OR, we could have a rolling time, changing every hour; say, daily for now. One day it's 1am, next it's 2am, next it's 3am etc. This way, our 500 people now take 4.17% of the suffering. But oh wait, at 1pm, our ~2000 people now ALL get pissed off at the same time. 4.17% of the time. What we're saying is, we have two alternatives. 500 people suffer 100% of the time, or EVERYONE suffers EQUALLY 4.17% of the time.

The latter is, strictly speaking, a less utilitarian approach on the 'greatest number of people' bit, until you consider what we're talking about in terms of 'greatest good.' For me, 4.17% (higher because of extended hours of play, granted) of the days in the year, losing an hour of gaming time is a VERY minor inconvenience; especially if I know that I am not at any disadvantage because of it because everyone will have that same 4.17% (multiplied by however many hours they choose to play, granted). On the other hand, our aussie friends are facing losing that one hour -every- day, 100% of the time, during their prime time. For any casual user, this could easily be half if not more of their daily gaming time. This is far more than a minor inconvenience, and in my mind makes their case more merited than your 'WE R MANY' argument.



Key here to note is that using your own info here is what you would be doing.

500 1am
1200 Midnight and 2am
1400 11pm and 3am
1600 10pm and 4am
1800 9pm and 5am
2000 8pm and 6am
2200 7pm and 7am
2400 6pm and 8am
2600 5pm and 9am
2800 4pm and 10am
3000 3pm and 11am
3200 2pm and Noon
1700 1pm

26400 people total.

So instead of upsetting 500 people 100% of the time. You are going to upset 26400 people 4.17% of the time, which really with math is 1,100 people.

Thats how it would really work. Using your own numbers of course. Which I think its worse than these numbers show. I wouldnt doubt if its something like 10x more people during peak than off peak hours.

Dont forget also that a scrolling downtime in hours would cause at peak hours 3x more people to be upset for almost a week, before they could play again.

[Kinslayer]

Go back and look at the post after you asked your irrelevant question. I answered you with an ingame location. I'm gathering branches as we speak.

I listed major MMOs with downtimes directly in that window. Maybe, you just chose to ignore them.

I want this game to succeed. In order to succeed, you follow a strong business plan. With most MMOs using that window you dislike so much, it's quite clear where the "least impactful time of day" area falls into.

If Xsyon were an EU or Oceanic server and/or the majority of the population were from those areas, I'd be 100% OK with downtime in NA primetime. Why? Because, it makes sense to initiate procedures that give you the best chance of success. All of these MMOs aren't interrupting Aussie primetime just because they think it's funny, ya know.TBH, I skipped a couple of your posts, because, well, I just couldnt stand reading the same thing again written a different way. What you dont get, which is our main point, that it doesnt need to be in ANYONE's prime time. There are plenty of times that can be used that are not primetimes, afterall, there are 3 main primetimes.

@mmoaddict: I would happily agree to your 2nd timeslot, not the 1st, cos 5-6pm is still in Aust/NZ primetime. Your 2nd is perfect, and has now been put forward by a few of us.

So as I said, if it were at that time, 7-9am PST every week day, then that wouldnt cause a problem, and I think most of us could agree. So how about we steer the conversation in that direction rather than continuing to go around in circles. All Im after is a solution, not an ongoing argument, so lets turn this thread to be a little more positive and productive, rather than us all just digging in our heals further and further.

[JCatano]

TBH, I skipped a couple of your posts, because, well, I just couldnt stand reading the same thing again written a different way. What you dont get, which is our main point, that it doesnt need to be in ANYONE's prime time. There are plenty of times that can be used that are not primetimes, afterall, there are 3 main primetimes.

@mmoaddict: I would happily agree to your 2nd timeslot, not the 1st, cos 5-6pm is still in Aust/NZ primetime. Your 2nd is perfect, and has now been put forward by a few of us.

So as I said, if it were at that time, 7-9am PST every week day, then that wouldnt cause a problem, and I think most of us could agree. So how about we steer the conversation in that direction rather than continuing to go around in circles. All Im after is a solution, not an ongoing argument, so lets turn this thread to be a little more positive and productive, rather than us all just digging in our heals further and further.

Ditto to you.

Mine is the same because you refuse to acknowledge that most MMOs, including major ones that I listed, are using that window. There isn't anything different to say. They are not doing it by accident. If you think that you know more about it than they do... Go give them a lesson.

If Jordi doesn't think it would hurt business-wise, then go for a change. It's not up to you guys to come up with time slots, unless you want to research demographics and risk assessment for his business.

[Phazaar]

Ditto to you.

Mine is the same because you refuse to acknowledge that most MMOs, including major ones that I listed, are using that window. There isn't anything different to say. They are not doing it by accident. If you think that you know more about it than they do... Go give them a lesson.

If Jordi doesn't think it would hurt business-wise, then go for a change. It's not up to you guys to come up with time slots, unless you want to research demographics and risk assessment for his business.

Only have a few secs before I've gotta go so I'll reply here as this is the only point that you're still labouring, despite that it's been undermined continually here.

Jordi's business would do a HELL of a lot better if he turned OFF twitch-based PvP, brought in classes, levels, dungeons and raids. The idea of this is -not- to use pre-existing models, because they're alienating parts of their playerbase, either through carebearitis, ignorance or bad logistical decisions, like EVE's downtime placement. Yes, it is different, but so is everything else, and that's why we're all here. I don't see why a more community-minded decision here would not be a good thing. Business, after all, isn't just about profit margins, and spending time on neglected parts of your customer base will only foster a stronger longterm bond with the company/game.

[JCatano]

It's the only laboring point, because it's really the only one to labor in this particular thread. It is one piece of the puzzle that can determine success v. failure. Losing some pieces of a very small market is acceptable when it means your larger market is being retained at a high rate. The gains of the latter normally exceed any loss of a very small market. Business isn't nice. It's never fair. This is why you can probably Google something like "Aussies get screwed with MMO maintenance times" and find a bunch of links.

Regardless of the type of game <insert company> develops, they'll still want follow a gameplan that gives them the best chance of success. Maintenance time is included in that plan. Most MMOs are following a similar window, and as I've said... It's not by accident. Maintenance times and type of game are not comparable. Those are separate entities. A community minded decision is ludicrous when talking about when a company should execute their maintenance, because that solely plays to the wishes of people who simply want to play a game and not consider the business part. That isn't going to pay the bills.

If we found out that 500 Aussies were playing and only 50 people from NA had a subscription, I'd be the first person to tell Jordi to run maintenance at a time when Aussie population is the lightest. If that meant prime NA time... So be it. That's called a smart decision.

I don't think Jordi is running Xsyon to break even.

[wolf_rt]

To answer you question JC, i can't list any other mmo's i have played that have rolling downtime, because the only other online game i have played is EVE, which as has been perviously stated, has DT in the middle of my playtime, which was one of the factors that led me to leave that game.


Here is a question for everybody:

if DT was shifted back 2 hrs one week, at the current time for one week, then moved 2 hrs foward the next week, repeat...

is there anyone who feels that an arrangement like this would be a factor in causing them to leave the game?????

because this would greatly ease the burden of those who only have 3-4hours to play after work.

[JCatano]

Two hours forward is still a norm time. 5am wouldn't be out of that norm, either. Two hours back (Midnight) would be shakey. You aren't thinking of weekend playtime (later), summer (no school), and people who just play later in a few of the neighboring time zones. California alone has about 12 million (?) more people than Australia.

By the way... Didn't EVE pass 300k subscriptions a year or two ago and also get 63,170 players online simultaneously in January *edit*? That downtime isn't worrying them. ;)

[MrDDT]

The poll speaks for itself so far, and likely its the people that are pissed off the most able to reply about it. So even still you have more people want fixed than people that dont. Its pretty simple.

You dont see stores open at 3am, why? I mean I know a few people that work and are able to goto the store at 3am because of their work times. Does that mean stores should open at 3am? It doesnt make business sense.

It sucks for you but where you live is effecting your MMO play times. Just sucks, but not much you can do about it without moving. Because companies are not going to make changes based on the few people that live in an area where it effects them. They are going to make choices that best help game and them.

[wolf_rt]

if 2am is the quietest time, then surely 2hours either side of that time is also going to be very quiet? thats how the graph that EVE provided looked to me anyway.

If not then perhaps 1am, 3am, and 5am could be used...

EVE no longer gets my money.

There certianly ARE stores open at 3am...where do you live again????

The poll doesnt speak for much other than the wording of the poll.

[MrDDT]

if 2am is the quietest time, then surely 2hours either side of that time is also going to be very quiet? thats how the graph that EVE provided looked to me anyway.

If not then perhaps 1am, 3am, and 5am could be used...

EVE no longer gets my money.

There certianly ARE stores open at 3am...where do you live again????

The poll doesnt speak for much other than the wording of the poll.


I live in the USA. As it says on my "Location".

Im sure there is a store or 2 open, but very very few. Most likely those stores are open at that time for another reason, maybe like because they are a bar or something. I dont see stores or doctors offices or anything like that open at that time.

The wording of the poll is in favor of the first option. Which is still losing.

I agree might be better to have a 4 hour window where it changes during those 4 hours. Maybe like 2am PST, 3am PST, 4am PST, and 5am PST. Would likely be a good option if you dont want to see people like you whine, but still like I said, it would be best to have it the same hour everyday whichever is the lowest amount of people on avg playing.

[Kinslayer]

Since when is an MMO a fucking Doctors surgery? LMAO. It's only the 2 of you arguing for the cause, I wonder if you really give a shit or just argue for the hell of it.

Anyway, I emailed support before I even started taking part in this thread, and their response went missing, but got back one today, here is the direct quote...


The email that we sent explained, that we are not going to have the same maintenance times every week, we will be staggering them as to make it as fair as possible.

I guess that settles it then, the devs seem to understand the argument put forth here, and agree with the most sensible side of this argument. That should wrap up this thread now I would say.

[meissner61]

Now we can begin discussing exactly how MMO's are and aren't doctor surgeries! Speaking of which, we have doctorates working on the game

[orious13]

Now we can begin discussing exactly how MMO's are and aren't doctor surgeries! Speaking of which, we have doctorates working on the game

buh dum ching.

[JCatano]

if 2am is the quietest time, then surely 2hours either side of that time is also going to be very quiet? thats how the graph that EVE provided looked to me anyway.

If not then perhaps 1am, 3am, and 5am could be used...

EVE no longer gets my money.

There certianly ARE stores open at 3am...where do you live again????

The poll doesnt speak for much other than the wording of the poll.

EVE is doing fine without your money, I would guess. I already explained why you shouldn't rotate back to midnight. Don't need to rotate at all. A static 5am would work.

United States 39.30%
United Kingdom 14.40
Germany 8.30
Russia 5.70
Canada 5.00
Australia 3.20
France 2.50
Netherlands 2.40
Sweden 2.30
Denmark 2.30
Norway 1.40
China 1.34
Finland 1.06
Japan 1.00

Since, you want to use EVE "graphs". :P

[ordogg]

God, another winning thread about some self centered bull crap. Add more operating cost by staggering times. Leave it be.

[Flatlander]

Now we can begin discussing exactly how MMO's are and aren't doctor surgeries! Speaking of which, we have doctorates working on the game

Too bad the doctorates aren't in programming <3

FYI, countless PhD's are earned in relatively worthless 1-year programs. Just saying.

[meissner61]

I dunno i hear russian doctorates are even harder to earn than american ones.

2nd dude(phd) on their developer page is working on server and engine programming. And i imagine a game like xsyon where all players go around dicking with the terrain is pretty hard to manage programming wise, so ill give them props. They have a better game then Wurm in my eyes. *Cheers for developers* Now please give us an update about where we are in the game, you've been silent for 5 days.!

[Flatlander]

I dunno i hear russian doctorates are even harder to earn than american ones.

Just curious, where did you hear that exactly? Just idle party talk?

Anyway, my point was more along the lines of saying that it mostly depends on what the doctore is in. For example, a phd in mathematics, or even computer science, beats the living crap out of a phd in psychology.

[orious13]

Just curious, where did you hear that exactly? Just idle party talk?

Anyway, my point was more along the lines of saying that it mostly depends on what the doctore is in. For example, a phd in mathematics, or even computer science, beats the living crap out of a phd in psychology.

http://www.xsyon.com/developers

[MrDDT]

Since when is an MMO a fucking Doctors surgery? LMAO. It's only the 2 of you arguing for the cause, I wonder if you really give a shit or just argue for the hell of it.

Anyway, I emailed support before I even started taking part in this thread, and their response went missing, but got back one today, here is the direct quote...

I guess that settles it then, the devs seem to understand the argument put forth here, and agree with the most sensible side of this argument. That should wrap up this thread now I would say.

Yes because we all know that if the devs make a choice that must have been the most sensible one right?

I really hope they are not doing what they say in your post, because its one of the stupidest things I can think of for setting up a downtime. Instead of pissing a few people (yes VERY FEW) you are going to be pissing off everyone. Really smart there.

Dont worry it will change. Just watch the first time downtime rolls into the 8pm PST time frame. These boards will be filled with people saying just how stupid your idea is.

[Flatlander]

http://www.xsyon.com/developers

Uhh. since that page says nothing about Russian phds vs American phds, I'm not sure why you posted it.

[Kinslayer]

Yes because we all know that if the devs make a choice that must have been the most sensible one right?

I really hope they are not doing what they say in your post, because its one of the stupidest things I can think of for setting up a downtime. Instead of pissing a few people (yes VERY FEW) you are going to be pissing off everyone. Really smart there.

Dont worry it will change. Just watch the first time downtime rolls into the 8pm PST time frame. These boards will be filled with people saying just how stupid your idea is.Says you and one other guy :rolleyes: Tell you what, can you go over it one more time for us?

[Book]

Just curious, where did you hear that exactly? Just idle party talk?

Anyway, my point was more along the lines of saying that it mostly depends on what the doctore is in. For example, a phd in mathematics, or even computer science, beats the living crap out of a phd in psychology.

That's funny, I had actually been thinking "I hope they have at least one Anthropology or Psychology Phd in there." :)

Reason being, the best programming in the world doesn't necessarily address the social structure that can often make or break these types of games in the long run. I'm way off topic now though... sorry :).

[MrDDT]

Says you and one other guy :rolleyes: Tell you what, can you go over it one more time for us?


Me and one other guy? Have you read the poll? Or can you not understand the graph?

[wolf_rt]

Just watch the first time downtime rolls into the 8pm PST time frame.

WTF???????

[Kinslayer]

WTF???????Dont worry, DDT is just making shit up and being a drama queen.

[MrDDT]

Dont worry, DDT is just making shit up and being a drama queen.

I think you and wolf misunderstood what I was saying. I wasnt saying that the first downtime on the new system would be at 8pm PST. Im saying watch when the downtime is set for 8pm PST all the people on here coming out of the wood works upset about it is what Im saying.

See right now you have the wheels squeaking that are the ones who have been effected. (The few of you). Wait til the prime time hours are effected just how many people will be squeaking then.

I laugh at the thought that you think Im being a drama queen when its people like you saying "Im going home if I cant have it my way" attitude.

[Jadzia]

I think you and wolf misunderstood what I was saying. I wasnt saying that the first downtime on the new system would be at 8pm PST. Im saying watch when the downtime is set for 8pm PST all the people on here coming out of the wood works upset about it is what Im saying.

See right now you have the wheels squeaking that are the ones who have been effected. (The few of you). Wait til the prime time hours are effected just how many people will be squeaking then.

I laugh at the thought that you think Im being a drama queen when its people like you saying "Im going home if I cant have it my way" attitude.

No one suggested here to set the downtime to PST primetime. Just move it around in the 3am-11am PST timewindow.

[MrDDT]

No one suggested here to set the downtime to PST primetime. Just move it around in the 3am-11am PST timewindow.

There is more people playing at 11am PST than people from 3am.

I would bet about 10x more. Why? Because 3am PST is only a very very few amount of people able to even log in there.
Why would you want to piss off that many people? 11am PST is about when kids are getting out of school on EST. On top of that its SMACK in the middle of EU primetime.
So you believe its ok to put it when a lot more people are playing just to avoid pissing off the few people playing at 3am - 4am PST?

I can see maybe putting it from 3am PST, til about 5am PST, with it changing rotating between those 3 hours. But anything more than that is really really bad idea.

Really what you should do is stick it still at the least amount of people playing. Because moving it around will only piss off 3hours worth of people instead of 1 hour of the least amount of people. Everyone can move on in their merry way and understand when it will be and if this will be the game for them or not. If you change it over 3 hours, then you have 3 hours of people that will not want to play the game.

Doesnt matter, this is common sense to me. Clearly you have people like Kinslayer who is "Oh no its at my primetime" type of thought process that have no care about anyone else. As long as its not at their times they are ok. They dont care about the best for the game or anyone else.

I can see you are trying Jadzia, but you know what sometimes things dont work out and they just suck. Thats what happening here. You can only do so much. You have to limit the amount of damage done. There is no perfect option without pissing anyone off. Thus you have to limit how many people are pissed off. How do you do this? You put it at the time where the FEWEST amount of people are logging in. PERIOD.

[xyberviri]

how about one day a week the server is offline for 24 hours. every friday night is my vote :p well just piss everyone off.

When the US and EU folk argue about down time there is usually a good spot, but then you have to go and throw JAP/AU in the mix and all hell breaks loose.

[wolf_rt]

Soo.. the poll is finished, you have everyone's thaughts... Whats the Verdict?

[mmogaddict]

There is more people playing at 11am PST than people from 3am.

I would bet about 10x more. Why? Because 3am PST is only a very very few amount of people able to even log in there.

You'd be wrong, best thing to do to judge offpeak vs peak time player bases is look at the only game that actually publishers it's hourly numbers, EvE Online.

www.eveonline.com

As you can see from the server graph, the offpeak vs peak time difference is only around 2 ~ 2.5x. So if there is 1000 peak players then there are around 400~500 off peak players. (at a guess from currently playing the game I reckon it's around 300 peak vs 120 offpeak due to everyone waiting for some content/fixes)

This also correlates with census data from WoW before the oceanic servers were added which also showed the peak vs offpeak data was again around 2.5x.

[Kinslayer]

I think this needs to be discussed with the people its affecting, not forum loudmouths. DDT, time to pipe down, since this doesnt affect you, nor will it ever affect you.

9am PST is still the most sensible time, which avoids all prime times of all major gaming populations globally.

In any case, the jury is still discussing the outcome according to Dez, even though Jooky told me the times will be staggered, apparently he's changed his mind. I will wait for the official decision before deciding what to do, but they'd best hurry up, cos there's only so much a person can take of servers being shut down on them every fucking night.

[mmogaddict]

"The server will be down for regular maintenance Monday-Friday 2:00 AM to 3:00 AM PST. (10:00 AM to 11:00 AM UTC). Come Monday maintenance will be staggered (More details will follow shortly). "

We have our answer.

[Kinslayer]

Good, Im glad Jooky didnt go back on what he told be via email. Thanks Jooky.

[d3m0nd0]

Server Maint should be during the duration of american/european primetimes.