The problem with private bins outside of homes

[ColonelTEE3]

Someone brought this up in local and i believe in this problem too, but its rarely brought up.

Right now bins can be set to private, and you can throw them down anywhere in the wilderness and no one can do anything about it, except for drop a totem down on it to claim it. This seems a little bit broken.

Another problem that comes along with this is dropping your bags before you die in pvp.

About to lose a duel and all your tools and scavenged rares are on you? No worries, just click and drag your private bin on the ground and die. Come back to pick it up later.

What the hell is this?

If you successfully hide it behind rocks or trees, then great. But if some very perceptive explorer finds it, they shouldn't be stopped by a white texted message of magic.

If you are about to lose a fight, you shouldn't get away scot free. You lost because of the choices leading up to that fight, and because of your inability to defend yourself, so you have to pay a price for that.

Bins outside of tribal or homestead territory SHOULD BE PUBLIC ACCESS TO ALL.

[Armand]

100% agreed.

[meissner61]

I agree but not something they should just brashly deal with, this type of decision requires some thought.

[orious13]

All they have ta do is add locks/lockpicking/thievery.

tooltip~ "The owner of this bag was a boyscout, therefore, you cannot understand how to get passed these freaking knotts. Use your knowledge of thievery? *pulls out some knife* If you cut the bag you might damage some of the items. Proceed? *BONG (can't forget that noise)*"

[ColonelTEE3]

All they have ta do is add locks/lockpicking/thievery.

tooltip~ "The owner of this bag was a boyscout, therefore, you cannot understand how to get passed these freaking knotts. Use your knowledge of thievery? *pulls out some knife* If you cut the bag you might damage some of the items. Proceed? *BONG (can't forget that noise)*"

Or... just publicize all bins outside of territories. Of these two ideas, which do you think is easier, faster, and more likely to be implemented to solve this problem?

[JCatano]

You don't even need a basket.

Jump off of a cliff when people are chasing you and get an instant respawn to totem. Lame.

- All deaths need to leave a corpse behind with loot on it.

- Items need a 5 minute timer after deletion like DF. That way, people can't delete their gear when they know they're going to die. Deleted gear would instantly disappear from the character, but stay in the DB for 5 minutes, so people have a chance to loot after deletion if the person is killed.

[orious13]

Or... just publicize all bins outside of territories. Of these two ideas, which do you think is easier, faster, and more likely to be implemented to solve this problem?

was kidding

[KeithStone]

you shouldn't be able to lock a bin out in the world without a lock period!

[ColonelTEE3]

You don't even need a basket.

Jump off of a cliff when people are chasing you and get an instant respawn to totem. Lame.

- All deaths need to leave a corpse behind with loot on it.

- Items need a 5 minute timer after deletion like DF. That way, people can't delete their gear when they know they're going to die. Deleted gear would instantly disappear from the character, but stay in the DB for 5 minutes, so people have a chance to loot after deletion if the person is killed.

THIS.

It is so bullshit that because of buggy bag mechanics bags close on you when you loot people and wont reopen, and then they just get to keep whatever you were never able to loot. Worst "full loot" ive ever heard of.

[Kinslayer]

100% agree. Vote 1 for no magical bags.

[DocEllis]

This is my first post. I've lurked on here for w/ever amount of time who cares. This I am in 100% agreement on. As a solo player I often run great distances and come across many containers, not just baskets. It seems that using this for PvP combat should be considered an exploit, as an exploit is using a game mechanic to gain an unfair advantage over another player also.

TLDR
+1

[Plague]

You don't even need a basket.

Jump off of a cliff when people are chasing you and get an instant respawn to totem. Lame.

- All deaths need to leave a corpse behind with loot on it.

- Items need a 5 minute timer after deletion like DF. That way, people can't delete their gear when they know they're going to die. Deleted gear would instantly disappear from the character, but stay in the DB for 5 minutes, so people have a chance to loot after deletion if the person is killed.

Oh and do you want a bazooka with that that shoots people around the corner? Just LOL.

Give us traps before you give us open bins. When someone naked tries to open my bin he should be pierced with a knife in the eye or bitten by 5 snakes or smashed by a rockslide.

You want realism but only when it suits you, right?

[joexxxz]

Someone brought this up in local and i believe in this problem too, but its rarely brought up.

Right now bins can be set to private, and you can throw them down anywhere in the wilderness and no one can do anything about it, except for drop a totem down on it to claim it. This seems a little bit broken.

Another problem that comes along with this is dropping your bags before you die in pvp.

About to lose a duel and all your tools and scavenged rares are on you? No worries, just click and drag your private bin on the ground and die. Come back to pick it up later.

What the hell is this?

If you successfully hide it behind rocks or trees, then great. But if some very perceptive explorer finds it, they shouldn't be stopped by a white texted message of magic.

If you are about to lose a fight, you shouldn't get away scot free. You lost because of the choices leading up to that fight, and because of your inability to defend yourself, so you have to pay a price for that.

Bins outside of tribal or homestead territory SHOULD BE PUBLIC ACCESS TO ALL.
1000 % AGREE WITH U!!!
NOT 100%, BUT A 1000% ;)

[Drevar]

Been wondering about the containers outside of tribal lands, mostly for performance reasons. I am pretty sure they add to the Entities problem.

How the game handles those containers could also be an issue. Is the client aware of the contents of every container even before it is opened, or does the timer bar when attempting to access it actually allow the contents to be fetched from the server? Hopefully it is the latter, else it is a waste of bandwidth and client memory to "know" what is in every container even when we don't have access to them. Once accessed, the contents can be cached locally so subsequent accesses don't have to hit the DB.

[joexxxz]

You don't even need a basket.

Jump off of a cliff when people are chasing you and get an instant respawn to totem. Lame.

- All deaths need to leave a corpse behind with loot on it.

- Items need a 5 minute timer after deletion like DF. That way, people can't delete their gear when they know they're going to die. Deleted gear would instantly disappear from the character, but stay in the DB for 5 minutes, so people have a chance to loot after deletion if the person is killed.

+1, Good point ;)


Oh and do you want a bazooka with that that shoots people around the corner? Just LOL.

Give us traps before you give us open bins. When someone naked tries to open my bin he should be pierced with a knife in the eye or bitten by 5 snakes or smashed by a rockslide.

You want realism but only when it suits you, right?

First. Comes, no magical bins,
Second. Then whatever you want ;)

[JCatano]

Oh and do you want a bazooka with that that shoots people around the corner? Just LOL.

Give us traps before you give us open bins. When someone naked tries to open my bin he should be pierced with a knife in the eye or bitten by 5 snakes or smashed by a rockslide.

You want realism but only when it suits you, right?

o.O

I wasn't even talking about bins.

Latin.

[savageasf]

agreed. Everything not in a tribe radius should be public

[ColonelTEE3]

I dont think theres a single reasonable person in this game who wont agree to this.

[coca]

I got into a long heated arguement last night about this "feature" I was told by 3 different devs this was an intended function..I could hardly believe it and thought I was going to be banned becuase I wouldn't let up on them. ... I was told it wasn't an exploit and was working as intended. It utterly pissed me off at the lack of concern or simple ignorance of who this is detrimental to the game. I asked the guides to please talk with devs for a definative answer on if this was an overlooked problem that might get future attention or if indeed it was intentional. I was told they have went over it with me already to basically stop asking about it.

Essentially no one has any reason to make a tribe if they can drop private baskets where ever they want. I understand that basket permissions are required and a good idea.. however all baskts carried outside of a tribal area should auto defualt themselves to public property.

It is blatently manipulating the game mechanics and in my opinion a true exploit. I was told that to combat this all I have to do is drop a totem and claim it as mine. Well thats horse shit. Why should I risk my property to gain access to items that are in unclaimed lands. How is making safezones ouside of you tribe a good thing?

I also have seen people using this tactic to aviod being killed while harvesting.. again this is blatantly manipulating game mechanics to avoid the possibility of being killed with items on you while in an open setting.



Along those notes I have also had people that I've faught drop a totems in the middle of a fight to give them self invulnerability when we are both low... then I have to run like hell away becuase I cannot hit them any longer.


Oh and do you want a bazooka with that that shoots people around the corner? Just LOL.

Give us traps before you give us open bins. When someone naked tries to open my bin he should be pierced with a knife in the eye or bitten by 5 snakes or smashed by a rockslide.

You want realism but only when it suits you, right?

Added after 6 minutes:

If you find a basket in the wilderness are you saying it should be locked in unable for anyone to pick up? I'll be damned.. If I'm out in the world and I find something.. I found it.. there is no mysterious force around that object that disallows me from opening it or moving it. Go put a random container in your street full of stuff and see how long it is before someone grabs it.
To prevent this from happening, you keep your shit in your house or yard you don't leave it out. Iif you do leave it out in the public you have abandoned it.....

[Aramanu]

So much for a full loot game then.. I guess they did this as many people would feel compelled to quit if they had everything stolen off them.

[ColonelTEE3]

I got into a long heated arguement last night about this "feature" I was told by 3 different devs this was an intended function..

3 Devs said this? Wow.

So basically it looks like, based on this sample of responses, that the developers are just going to ignore the vast majority of the player's desires? Do the devs want to play by themselves?

[orious13]

If the vast majority wants it changed it will change...
This thread doesn't make up the vast majority, yet.

[r0ss0]

Should have a time limit, To make them public regardless would be a right pain in the arse while scavenging. Put the bin to around 2 hours or so , After that its public

[Plague]

No problem, lets make baskets public. But first lets make pre-order weapons lootable and have decay. Then lets make people runing around naked in the snow die of cold. Then lets make people in leather armors that stand in the rain or go for a swim soak up so much water that it affects their encumeberance. Then lets introduce decay on every single item in the game.

You want reality? You can not handle reality. You just want to bend one little piece of game so you can steal from others. And it is always the same group that moans against safe zones, against baskets, against not being able to loot all items, blah blah blah. Suck it up, it ain't changing. If you don't like it Hello Kitty Online is thadaway.

[coca]

Come on Plague.. (be careful about the hello kitty reference I have gotten two warnings from mods for inciting people)
Nobody here is saying all baskets should be public. we are saying baskets shouldn't be able to be locked and unmovable outside of your tribe land.

You should be able to stash one on the ground and use it but you shouldn't have any rights to a secure bin in the wilderness.

[Jadzia]

Baskets outside of tribe areas should decay in a day or two imo and be safe during this time, and when they break they should be public for 1 more day then should disappear. But before they implement anything like this I'd like to see the aligment system in place.

[Aramanu]

make pre-order weapons lootable and have decay. Then lets make people runing around naked in the snow die of cold. Then lets make people in leather armors that stand in the rain or go for a swim soak up so much water that it affects their encumeberance. Then lets introduce decay on every single item in the game.

If i'm correct i'm not sure though but i think it was stated somewhere by the devs that most of what you said in that quote is in the making anyway, apart from lootable pre-order weapons and maybe clothes satuaration.. but it is a good idea.

edit: it has to happen anyway eventully because otherwise the land will just fill up with sh*t everywhere, remember all the dead houses/towns in SWG back in the day? you couldn't go anywhere without houses everywhere until they introduced the demolition thing.

I also like Jadzia's idea.

[biophazer242]

A little embarrassed to say this, but when I created my first character and I decided to move my location I did not know once I abandoned the totem the basket would stay private. I moved it outside my area and put it in a dark spot I thought was tough to see so no one would take the stuff in it till I could come back. Of course I learned later that day the bin was still set to private. Live and learn. That being said, the private function on bins feels almost like an option that was made to keep tribe members out of each others bins. Does feel unrealistic to have some lock no one can break on a bin outside a safe zone. If a bin lock system was introduced, what about a lock on the bin on your back? People could kill someone out in the world but than only loot the bin if they could unlock it with their skill. Just a thought.

[Plague]

Come on Plague.. it sounds like your so worried about losing your pixels you should check out hello kitty online.

Nobody here is saying all baskets should be public. we are saying baskets shouldn't be able to be locked and unmovable outside of your tribe land.

You should be able to stash one on the ground and use it but you shouldn't have any rights to a secure bin in the wilderness.

Scared for your pre-order weapon? And runing around naked is also your sacred cow?

[SlightlyEvil]

Just adds another reason not to explore, knowing you'll never be able to loot any of the bins you come across is just plain stupid.

As of now you pretty much gain nothing but exploring other than the random animal, all you're doing is risking losing your armor/weapons by leaving your tribe area.

At least if you could loot bins it would give a reason to go explore around other tribes/homesteads for treasures.

[Plague]

This is clearly a discussion between looters and creators, crafters and griefers. You do realize that right now there is NO (ZERO, NADA, NULL) punishment for theft? And you want to add more theft tools in here? A balance must exist yet all who want lootable bins are not those who seek a balanced game.

There are 40 public bins in front of my homstead full of tools and random crap I crafted and left there for possible explorers to pick up. In 7 days only ONE person ever came over and that was my neighbour. Not even local griefers didnt bother with my public bins. And you complain about not having lootable bins? What you need is a reality check.

[orious13]

This is clearly a discussion between looters and creators, crafters and griefers. You do realize that right now there is NO (ZERO, NADA, NULL) punishment for theft? And you want to add more theft tools in here? A balance must exist yet all who want lootable bins are not those who seek a balanced game.

There are 40 public bins in front of my homstead full of tools and random crap I crafted and left there for possible explorers to pick up. In 7 days only ONE person ever came over and that was my neighbour. Not even local griefers didnt bother with my public bins. And you complain about not having lootable bins? What you need is a reality check.

This is why Jadzi says to make an alignment system first.

I didn't care either way, but with the punishment thought I guess keep them until alignment is in. (none of this why alignment penalties wahh crap...alignment is used to create a fake moral compass that gamers don't have when playing a game).

[AlexTaldren]

This is clearly a discussion between looters and creators, crafters and griefers. You do realize that right now there is NO (ZERO, NADA, NULL) punishment for theft? And you want to add more theft tools in here? A balance must exist yet all who want lootable bins are not those who seek a balanced game.

There are 40 public bins in front of my homstead full of tools and random crap I crafted and left there for possible explorers to pick up. In 7 days only ONE person ever came over and that was my neighbour. Not even local griefers didnt bother with my public bins. And you complain about not having lootable bins? What you need is a reality check.

I agree with the OP and most of the people in this thread. Bins outside of safe zones should not be private and locked. I'd love to see a more interesting lock/lock-picking system added eventually, but for the time being, I'd be happy with bins outside of safe zones being public.

As for Plague, can we please get this guy a translator? I get the impression that he misunderstands a majority of the posts and threads he responds to.

[biophazer242]

There are 40 public bins in front of my homstead full of tools and random crap I crafted and left there for possible explorers to pick up. In 7 days only ONE person ever came over and that was my neighbour. Not even local griefers didnt bother with my public bins. And you complain about not having lootable bins? What you need is a reality check.

Where is this pile of free tools at man... 40 public bins is a lot.

[Plague]

I agree with the OP and most of the people in this thread. Bins outside of safe zones should not be private and locked. I'd love to see a more interesting lock/lock-picking system added eventually, but for the time being, I'd be happy with bins outside of safe zones being public.

As for Plague, can we please get this guy a translator? I get the impression that he misunderstands a majority of the posts and threads he responds to.

Obvious troll is obvious. When you cant bring any more arguments to the table just start attacking the other side. Love your trolls tears as bins will stay private. Translate that to your trollish language.

My bins are in 823, be carful of SOTA, they don't really care about tools and bins but do care abour ganking people who pass by.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

You shouldn't be able to lock a basket made of grass EVER. It's made of grass... I have an axe... I can understand it being locked inside your safezone but outside is completely ridiculous, and part of the reason I am not playing this game anymore until some MAJOR changes are made.


Obvious troll is obvious. When you cant bring any more arguments to the table just start attacking the other side. Love your trolls tears as bins will stay private. Translate that to your trollish language.

My bins are in 823, be carful of SOTA, they don't really care about tools and bins but do care abour ganking people who pass by.

Sounds like everything that's wrong with kids today. Don't care about playing the game just want to make everyone as miserable as they are. Give me the exact coords of your baskets I'll come drop a homestead on them. Then I will continue to not play.

[Plague]

So you want to lock my public baskets????

Why are people with IQ less then 50 allowed in Xsyon I wonder.

[Aramanu]

Clearly there are alot of issues still, but since everyone can place a totem safezone, safe bins in the wilderness is clearly not right. Now i could understand the current mechanics if there were no such thing as homesteads.

[ColonelTEE3]

Im considering forming a bin taskforce to litter the world of xsyon with private-only bins... with nothing in them.

Hundreds. Thousands. Everywhere. People can homestead them and be disappointed. Explorers will be disappointed. Im just going to abuse the ever living shit out of this until its fixed and i advise everyone in support of this to do the same. Everyone will realize how very fucking stupid this broken feature of the game is.

When the problem is so fully in the face of people it can't be ignored... then maybe the devs will wake up.

[Aethaeryn]

3 Devs said this? Wow.

So basically it looks like, based on this sample of responses, that the developers are just going to ignore the vast majority of the player's desires? Do the devs want to play by themselves?

Maybe he meant guides. . .

[Aramanu]

if we all place hundreds of thousands of bins maybe the server will crash and they can do somthing about it. >_>

[r0ss0]

This is clearly a discussion between looters and creators, crafters and griefers. You do realize that right now there is NO (ZERO, NADA, NULL) punishment for theft? And you want to add more theft tools in here? A balance must exist yet all who want lootable bins are not those who seek a balanced game.

There are 40 public bins in front of my homstead full of tools and random crap I crafted and left there for possible explorers to pick up. In 7 days only ONE person ever came over and that was my neighbour. Not even local griefers didnt bother with my public bins. And you complain about not having lootable bins? What you need is a reality check.

That was me! (neighbour) Thanks again :)

[Book]

If I understand correctly, I think there are two separate issues here:
1) Public storage bins left just about anywhere remaining private forever (unless that player character is deleted which currently resets those bins to public... EDIT: right so now I can't reproduce how this happened last time... but I was able to access my old bags with a different toon so... workin' on it.)
2) Bags a player carries being completely lootable upon death, no matter what.

These are two different issues are they not? Perhaps there is something within the code that makes it the same issue programatically, that I don't know.

1) sure, storage bins left outside could have limited time on them to allow someone to get some work done, but not forever.

2) making bags someone is carrying completely lootable, I think, would have very bad consequences for the game in the long run. Players will be less likely to go out to trade their items if there is a high chance they will lose the product on the way, or the profit on the way back. Those with greater strength would essentially never really have to work for anything. Wait by an open junkpile for someone else to do all the work. Bash over head, collect, rinse, repeat. Soon few people will scavenge. In the long run, while perhaps being realistic, it would get tiresome, unfun(it should be a word), and resulting in further population loss in general.

Please don't assume that just because some people wouldn't want to invite being flamed and insulted by disagreeing with #2 means you have the majority. It's unfun :) to anticipate being lambasted for one's legitimate opinion, and most folks wouldn't undertake the unfun.

oh, one other note, you'd be amazed how strong grass based products can be. I think it's was at the Met Museum in New York where I saw Samurai (or ancient Japanese at least) armor made of grass. Highly recommend checking out that exhibit if you're ever in the city. Back to topic, sorry... :)

[coca]

Baskets outside of tribe areas should decay in a day or two imo and be safe during this time, and when they break they should be public for 1 more day then should disappear. But before they implement anything like this I'd like to see the aligment system in place.

this does not adress the problem of combat dumping a locked box to prevent loss outside of your tribal area.. it also fails to prevent anyone from simply picking up the basket and dropping it right down to reset the timer ...

Sorry.. this just isn't acceptable.

[joexxxz]

agreed. Everything not in a tribe radius should be public
+1 Great point ;)

[AlexTaldren]

If I understand correctly, I think there are two separate issues here:
1) Public storage bins left just about anywhere remaining private forever (unless that player character is deleted which currently resets those bins to public... tested)
2) Bags a player carries being completely lootable upon death, no matter what.

These are two different issues are they not? Perhaps there is something within the code that makes it the same issue programatically, that I don't know.

1) sure, storage bins left outside could have limited time on them to allow someone to get some work done, but not forever.

2) making bags someone is carrying completely lootable, I think, would have very bad consequences for the game in the long run. Players will be less likely to go out to trade their items if there is a high chance they will lose the product on the way, or the profit on the way back. Those with greater strength would essentially never really have to work for anything. Wait by an open junkpile for someone else to do all the work. Bash over head, collect, rinse, repeat. Soon few people will scavenge. In the long run, while perhaps being realistic, it would get tiresome, unfun(it should be a word), and resulting in further population loss in general.

Please don't assume that just because some people wouldn't want to invite being flamed and insulted by disagreeing with #2 means you have the majority. It's unfun :) to anticipate being lambasted for one's legitimate opinion, and most folks wouldn't undertake the unfun.

oh, one other note, you'd be amazed how strong grass based products can be. I think it's was at the Met Museum in New York where I saw Samurai (or ancient Japanese at least) armor made of grass. Highly recommend checking out that exhibit if you're ever in the city. Back to topic, sorry... :)

To address #2, you are aware the game was conceptualized and designed to be a full loot PvP system, right? The private pouches and packs are a bug, not a gameplay feature. The argument that population loss would occur if player-carried packs were lootable isn't completely invalid, but you have to understand the other side. If going outside of your area is "too risky" what's the difference between there being no risk? Either way, a player isn't motivated to do it.

Risk is the basic underlying factor for this game. Surviving after the apocalypse, scavenging for food and water, fighting of wild animals, mutants, and people who want to kill you for your stuff. Games like this are similar to profit/loss systems. If the system is all profit or all loss, it fails to be fun.

The risk is also what encourages player interaction. For example, if you have to haul a lot of heavy items, or plan to scavenge a lot, it would make sense to bring someone to help watch your back. And, even if you're a homesteader, you could reach out to nearby homesteader and see if they'd be willing to accompany you. That sounds way more fun then knowing that no matter what someone else does, they can't get the stuff I'm carrying in my pack.

[joexxxz]

I got into a long heated arguement last night about this "feature" I was told by 3 different devs this was an intended function..I could hardly believe it and thought I was going to be banned becuase I wouldn't let up on them. ... I was told it wasn't an exploit and was working as intended. It utterly pissed me off at the lack of concern or simple ignorance of who this is detrimental to the game. I asked the guides to please talk with devs for a definative answer on if this was an overlooked problem that might get future attention or if indeed it was intentional. I was told they have went over it with me already to basically stop asking about it.

Essentially no one has any reason to make a tribe if they can drop private baskets where ever they want. I understand that basket permissions are required and a good idea.. however all baskts carried outside of a tribal area should auto defualt themselves to public property.

It is blatently manipulating the game mechanics and in my opinion a true exploit. I was told that to combat this all I have to do is drop a totem and claim it as mine. Well thats horse shit. Why should I risk my property to gain access to items that are in unclaimed lands. How is making safezones ouside of you tribe a good thing?

I also have seen people using this tactic to aviod being killed while harvesting.. again this is blatantly manipulating game mechanics to avoid the possibility of being killed with items on you while in an open setting.



Along those notes I have also had people that I've faught drop a totems in the middle of a fight to give them self invulnerability when we are both low... then I have to run like hell away becuase I cannot hit them any longer.



Added after 6 minutes:

If you find a basket in the wilderness are you saying it should be locked in unable for anyone to pick up? I'll be damned.. If I'm out in the world and I find something.. I found it.. there is no mysterious force around that object that disallows me from opening it or moving it. Go put a random container in your street full of stuff and see how long it is before someone grabs it.
To prevent this from happening, you keep your shit in your house or yard you don't leave it out. Iif you do leave it out in the public you have abandoned it.....

100 % AGREE WITH YOU.
The reason why baskets are private on public property is of Shinra tribe. Which is no longer exists. They asked the DEV to temporary fix this way back in JUL 2010. When the game was still being tested, someone was messing around with baskets, and few of the people spoke with Jordi about fixing it temporary.

[Jadzia]

this does not adress the problem of combat dumping a locked box to prevent loss outside of your tribal area.. it also fails to prevent anyone from simply picking up the basket and dropping it right down to reset the timer ...

Sorry.. this just isn't acceptable.
Xsyon was never meant to be full loot without limitation. Only evil players are supposed to be allowed to full loot others but in return they get several penalties for being evil. So the private baskets outside of safe zones are totally acceptable till they implement the aligment system. These 2 things are connected, while one of them is not working the other one shouldn't work either.

[joexxxz]

This is clearly a discussion between looters and creators, crafters and griefers. You do realize that right now there is NO (ZERO, NADA, NULL) punishment for theft? And you want to add more theft tools in here? A balance must exist yet all who want lootable bins are not those who seek a balanced game.

There are 40 public bins in front of my homstead full of tools and random crap I crafted and left there for possible explorers to pick up. In 7 days only ONE person ever came over and that was my neighbour. Not even local griefers didnt bother with my public bins. And you complain about not having lootable bins? What you need is a reality check.

You probably live in a cave. lol lol ;)

[coca]

Scared for your pre-order weapon? And runing around naked is also your sacred cow?

I do not understand your refrences to pre-order weapons. and being naked? I never travel naked and although I do use a preorder dagger in one hand the other hand usually has a combat shanks or a bear tooth blade. I don't worry about fighting or possibly being killed its a fun part of the game.

[joexxxz]

Im considering forming a bin taskforce to litter the world of xsyon with private-only bins... with nothing in them.

Hundreds. Thousands. Everywhere. People can homestead them and be disappointed. Explorers will be disappointed. Im just going to abuse the ever living shit out of this until its fixed and i advise everyone in support of this to do the same. Everyone will realize how very fucking stupid this broken feature of the game is.

When the problem is so fully in the face of people it can't be ignored... then maybe the devs will wake up.

1000% AGREE. AGREEEEEEE ;)

[coca]

This is clearly a discussion between looters and creators, crafters and griefers. You do realize that right now there is NO (ZERO, NADA, NULL) punishment for theft? And you want to add more theft tools in here? A balance must exist yet all who want lootable bins are not those who seek a balanced game.

There are 40 public bins in front of my homstead full of tools and random crap I crafted and left there for possible explorers to pick up. In 7 days only ONE person ever came over and that was my neighbour. Not even local griefers didnt bother with my public bins. And you complain about not having lootable bins? What you need is a reality check.

No, this is a conversation between people that enjoy all aspects of the game and some that just want to craft for no reason other than to look at pretty things that want complete easy mode with no fear of ever losing anything.

I pvp like crazy but I also enjoy crafting. I do not use baskets in junk piles.. I think it is crappy. I have almost 75 leathercrafting. Sure im not a leet crafter but I do understand its importance and I do enjoy crafting occasionally.

I don't like the fact that people are using a broken game mechanics to make your items unlootable when out in the world.. if everything was off limits to loot looting shouldn't be int he game and shouldn't be refered to as a full loot open world pvp game.. as it is on the official pages.

the fact that people leave locked baskets all over the world with no way to remove them also cuases the world to be cluttered with crap. I know of a spot that has been abandoned for weeks that still has 15 or 20 baskets around just sitting there in the open. Eventually the world will be so cluttered you can't load in. nothing prevents me from placing 123984120984120938 baskets around your homestead locked just to lag your load times. If this is inteded I think I am going to work on my weaving skills.


Maybe he meant guides. . .

I meant guides.. I asked 3 guides specifically if the DEVS intended this or if they were giving me a guide answer of we're not sure.. and they told me at was intended for sure 100% okay.

[joexxxz]

Right now im not placing my bins outside of my area, even i could. I just stongly believe whats outside of your area is public. Simple as that. So why stop on baskets? Lets make all items outside of tribe, private??? logs, grass, twigs, etc..... (sarcasm)

[Jadzia]

I don't like the fact that people are using a broken game mechanics to make your items unlootable when out in the world.. if everything was off limits to loot looting shouldn't be int he game and shouldn't be refered to as a full loot open world pvp game.. as it is on the official pages.

I did mean guides.. and I asked specifically if the DEVS intended this or if they were giving me a guide answer of were not sure.. and they told me at was intended for sure 100% okay.
Your 2 sentences seems to contradict each others. If its working as intended then its not a broken game mechanics and its not an exploit. And the game is not referred as a full loot open world pvp game. If you have seen any official announcement or advert from the devs saying that, then link, please.

[orious13]

Eventually everything will decay even in your tribe just not as fast as outside it (maybe including buildings...maybe terraformed areas may level themselves if tribeless??). So the world won't be cluttered in the long run.

[coca]

[QUOTE=Book;75955]If I understand correctly, I think there are two separate issues here:
1) Public storage bins left just about anywhere remaining private forever (unless that player character is deleted which currently resets those bins to public... tested)
2) Bags a player carries being completely lootable upon death, no matter what.


2) making bags someone is carrying completely lootable, I think, would have very bad consequences for the game in the long run. Players will be less likely to go out to trade their items if there is a high chance they will lose the product on the way, or the profit on the way back. Those with greater strength would essentially never really have to work for anything. Wait by an open junkpile for someone else to do all the work. Bash over head, collect, rinse, repeat. Soon few people will scavenge. In the long run, while perhaps being realistic, it would get tiresome, unfun(it should be a word), and resulting in further population loss in general.

Please don't assume that just because some people wouldn't want to invite being flamed and insulted by disagreeing with #2 means you have the majority. It's unfun :) to anticipate being lambasted for one's legitimate opinion, and most folks wouldn't undertake the unfun.


Well... if you want to craft without the possibility of being killed go with a partner as this wasn't ever supposed to be a solo game.. do it close to your tribe... or.. take a risk...
When does everything have to be protected or easy. this same thought leads to the "burnt out" syndrom where these guys do every crafting they can without consequence or lost and in a month have nothing to do.

And to the last remark I've recived two infractions for calling people out. I don't mind someone messing with me or tearing apart my words or comeing at me.. I thrive on it and enjoy it.
I like tossing around ideas and hearing other opinions. However some people that oppose my view reported my posts.. 4 diffren't times 2 landed me infraction points. I haven't been disrepectful.. I have been pationate and offered up direct reposnces to questions related exactly to this thread. the thread that refering to me and in game conversation inwhich I, COCA, started. No one has to participate.. but I do appreciate all the input.

[joexxxz]

If i can drop bags while being attacked, and then killed. The attacker have no way accessing my basket. THATS A HUGE ERROR. If i drop a basket, at least the default permission should be public.

[coca]

Your 2 sentences seems to contradict each others. If its working as intended then its not a broken game mechanics and its not an exploit. And the game is not referred as a full loot open world pvp game. If you have seen any official announcement or advert from the devs saying that, then link, please.

I think the guides didn't have a real answer and viewed me as a trouble maker for questioning them.. and told me to buzz off without consulting the devs specifically about this issue.
No contridiction.. I think you are hearing or reading my words how you want me to sound.

[Jadzia]

I think the guides didn't have a real answer and viewed me as a trouble maker for questioning them.. and told me to buzz off without consulting the devs specifically about this issue.
No contridiction.. I think you are hearing or reading my words how you want me to sound.
I see. I read a comment from Virtus a while ago which seemed to indicate that this mechanic is indeed intended. If you have doubts perhaps you should ask about it from support ?

And again, if you have seen any advert from the devs where they referred their game as a full loot open world pvp game, link please, I would really like to see that.

[Chavoda]

Once decay is enabled bins will decay, they will also decay in your homestead/tribe area, under roofs they will decay slower.
This is a confirmed fact.

Anyone dropping bins around in game to make their point clear that currently they cant be removed is just waisting a lot of their time but eh..if they like making bins and dropping them around and see that as a good means to spent their time..*shrug*

Also note that it was at least at one point in the planning to make all bins loot able by use of a stealing skill. this no doubt will be in game far after decay is enabled but as far im aware its still in the plans.

that character bags cant be always looted is a unintended bug to do whit the permissions for open world storage containers, no doubt it will be fixed to but as we are all well aware (or should be if you keep yourself informed) they are working on the "last"big server issue's currently and then will start trowing out the bug fixes.

[Plague]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

I bet none of you whiners have basketry rolled, you were too busy rolling 5 intel and 90 fortitude so you can steal stuff around. Tough luck, my baskets stay locked. I'll be happy to sell you baskets to litter the world to prove a point. 10 nails a baskets and we got a deal. LOL!

[mgilbrtsn]

All they have ta do is add locks/lockpicking/thievery.

tooltip~ "The owner of this bag was a boyscout, therefore, you cannot understand how to get passed these freaking knotts. Use your knowledge of thievery? *pulls out some knife* If you cut the bag you might damage some of the items. Proceed? *BONG (can't forget that noise)*"

I like this idea!! It fixes the problem while at the same time adding another dimension to the game

[ColonelTEE3]

Once decay is enabled bins will decay, they will also decay in your homestead/tribe area, under roofs they will decay slower.
This is a confirmed fact.

Anyone dropping bins around in game to make their point clear that currently they cant be removed is just waisting a lot of their time but eh..if they like making bins and dropping them around and see that as a good means to spent their time..*shrug*

Also note that it was at least at one point in the planning to make all bins loot able by use of a stealing skill. this no doubt will be in game far after decay is enabled but as far im aware its still in the plans.

that character bags cant be always looted is a unintended bug to do whit the permissions for open world storage containers, no doubt it will be fixed to but as we are all well aware (or should be if you keep yourself informed) they are working on the "last"big server issue's currently and then will start trowing out the bug fixes.

Decay is "in the plans". Stealing is "in the plans".

Look at how long its taken just to get the game to a normal running state. How long do you think it will be before we get any new content or features? Xsyons population wont survive waiting around for things like decay and stealing to be implemented, the vast majority of the 30+ in my tribe have already refunded. They dont need to add anything to fix this, all they need to do is change the rules on bins and - just like that - they've solved a fairly significant game flaw.

We're going to be waiting until winter IRL before "stealing" gets put in, if it ever does.

[Book]

I did preface my statement by saying, "if I understand correctly." :D Perhaps there are some things about the game that I didn't realize were unintended bugs, but rather that I thought were good ideas... go figure.

Admittedly, I'm even more confused now :) That's okay though, I'm enjoying the game and will continue to until, well until I don't, which is okay too.

I'm not suggesting this should be a solo game, I've met a number of really cool people in game I enjoy hanging out with! I also have solo games installed if that were my preference.

I'm just remembering other games I've played and trying to apply what I learned from their eventual failures and thus, I worry about the completely-lootable-all-the-time model that gives immense power to one segment of the population over another segment's enjoyment. I've heard the "you should get protection" argument in other games. They're empty servers now.

That may not happen here. No worries. I do personally continue to think that heading in that direction will make a lot of silent folks head out the door, and others not enter it to begin with. I'm not even saying that's necessarily a bad thing at this point since maybe that's what people want in the long run but... I do think it should be acknowledged and mentioned :).

Sometimes people have a lower tolerance for risk than you might imagine as it causes a certain degree of frustration in real life which makes the experience less of a break from reality.

[ColonelTEE3]

I did preface my statement by saying, "if I understand correctly." :D Perhaps there are some things about the game that I didn't realize were unintended bugs, but rather that I thought were good ideas... go figure.

Admittedly, I'm even more confused now :) That's okay though, I'm enjoying the game and will continue to until, well until I don't, which is okay too.

I'm not suggesting this should be a solo game, I've met a number of really cool people in game I enjoy hanging out with! I also have solo games installed if that were my preference.

I'm just remembering other games I've played and trying to apply what I learned from their eventual failures and thus, I worry about the completely-lootable-all-the-time model that gives immense power to one segment of the population over another segment's enjoyment. I've heard the "you should get protection" argument in other games. They're empty servers now.

That may not happen here. No worries. I do personally continue to think that heading in that direction will make a lot of silent folks head out the door, and others not enter it to begin with. I'm not even saying that's necessarily a bad thing at this point since maybe that's what people want in the long run but... I do think it should be acknowledged and mentioned :).

Sometimes people have a lower tolerance for risk than you might imagine as it causes a certain degree of frustration in real life which makes the experience less of a break from reality.

Neither this game in its current state, nor the suggestions being mentioned here, are in the hopes of a "completely lootable all the time model" game.

If you're inside your safezone, you cant be killed or looted.
If your bin is inside your safezone, it can't be looted.

What we want is for bins -outside- safezones to be lootable. No one here is asking for complete anarchy, ffa looting and killing at will or any of that. Thats a different topic.

[JCatano]

I just wish Jordi should start turning stuff on. Even it causes issues, at least it's something to delve into. At this point, there aren't going to many people at all starting a monthly subscription. If that ends up being the case... This game is dead.

[joexxxz]

Jordi needs to stop listen to people who dont know crap about gaming. Few carebears ruining this game.
That all!!!

[Flatlander]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

I bet none of you whiners have basketry rolled, you were too busy rolling 5 intel and 90 fortitude so you can steal stuff around. Tough luck, my baskets stay locked. I'll be happy to sell you baskets to litter the world to prove a point. 10 nails a baskets and we got a deal. LOL!

Players without basketry have zero problem putting permissions on baskets. I hope this helps you with your problems.

[Book]

Neither this game in its current state, nor the suggestions being mentioned here, are in the hopes of a "completely lootable all the time model" game.

If you're inside your safezone, you cant be killed or looted.
If your bin is inside your safezone, it can't be looted.

What we want is for bins -outside- safezones to be lootable. No one here is asking for complete anarchy, ffa looting and killing at will or any of that. Thats a different topic.

Yeah, I think I see what you're saying. I'm drawing a distinction between the bins that people are placing on the ground versus the pouches I carry on my person.

From what I'm sort of understanding from what everyone here is saying, the pouches I carry on my person will become fully lootable as well... as opposed to the current scenario where only what I'm wearing is lootable. I had sort of eluded to it being an "either in the safe zone" or an "out of the safe zone" from a coding perspective at which point the bins on the ground and those on my person are inextricably linked... thus not allowing the distinction I'm trying to draw.

I don't know if bags lootable on the player is how it was in beta and was only recently (and temporarily) altered? Wasn't around in beta. I would feel better knowing that was the case and that had already proven sustainable.

I just have my doubts as to how that would work out for quite a few folks out there but again, perhaps the concept was already proven in beta, or perhaps my concerns are founded... I'll wait and see.

Thanks.

[Plague]

Jordi needs to stop listen to people who dont know crap about gaming. Few carebears ruining this game.
That all!!!

Jordi needs to stop listening to few wannabe gankers who want to switch everything off... oh wait... he doesn't. Cry me a river.

[treyu]

All they have ta do is add locks/lockpicking/thievery.

tooltip~ "The owner of this bag was a boyscout, therefore, you cannot understand how to get passed these freaking knotts. Use your knowledge of thievery? *pulls out some knife* If you cut the bag you might damage some of the items. Proceed? *BONG (can't forget that noise)*"

I also LOVE this idea. ;) ;)

[joexxxz]

Jordi needs to stop listening to few wannabe gankers who want to switch everything off... oh wait... he doesn't. Cry me a river.

Switching everything off is not being a ganker. Cry me a river?? No, I like to swim in the river ;)

[Redus]

This is clearly a discussion between looters and creators, crafters and griefers. You do realize that right now there is NO (ZERO, NADA, NULL) punishment for theft? And you want to add more theft tools in here? A balance must exist yet all who want lootable bins are not those who seek a balanced game.

Why would there be a need for an in-game mechanic that punishes me for taking stuff that is just laying around. I just find it odd and not fitting in this setting that these bins outside of save zone are secure. We scavage around in junk piles, but we leave around the most obvious source of resources, others people stuff. I am a crafter and I accept the fact that if I want to craft outside of my tribe area there should be risks. Right now in this game there balance between risk and reward are...well not balanced.

This is also what makes this game boring. If you craft there is just no need to do anything else but craft. This is also the reason you see so much macro's. There is just no need to keep an eye out for anyone or anything else out there. I accept we have save zones, although I prefer more of a system like in Wurm Online in with you have NPC gaurds with makes you pretty save from the random ganker.

I do however that they will remove private bins now or whenever we have a lock system and ways to unluck those.

[coca]

Thanks for the input Redus.

I think it is safe to say that everyone knows I would enjoy a full loot FFA style game... however I know that this isn't going to work for XSYON. I enjoy killing people far more than any other aspect in any ther game.
I get completely annoyed by folks that continue to slam my posts for being so "hardcore" or unrealistic when just about ever posted suggestion I have ever made was about compomise that would please crafter and pvper... all I get back is crap from the crafters saying its too tough. I wish everyone would try to think about aspects from different playstyles without being greedy or self serving. Offer up good solutions and conversations.. I'm not a forrum warrior.. I'm actually trying to help the game out by posting here.

[Plague]

So everyone here thinks that making bins public would revolutionalize the game? LOL! It will only make people make more turns to get resources home. That's it. None of you have given this ANY reasonable thought of how would that affect the game. Only thing you are interessted is to take stuff from others so you are not bored. Again LOL.

Decay is what you should aim for and you should all start working for a living. If you want realism looters should be hanged high each time when caught. My item is my item regardless of where I left it in the world. Until I have good mechanism protecting my property you should not have a good mechanism of stealing my stuff without any punishment.

Decay, locks and traps. Then we can talk. Why should stealing be made so easy? There is 0 reasons to allow griefers to rule this game. Now go and pave a junkpile if you don't like it.

[AngelusDD]

Funny enough: all here want the same. to make the game interesting by getting a feeling of reward while fulfilling their individual roles. Yet there are always two sides to a medal. And only few are accepting the risky side of the medal.

But when everybody posts here, or even join/buy the game, they should be aware of what game they have bought.
The setting of the game is to have a more or less violent struggle in a postapocalyptic world. Alone that should actually forbid safe-zones at all. However i can easily understand the opinion of many crafter players that safe-zones and private assets are necessary to ensure a fair gameplay. (being a crafter myself)

But to state that an item is someones possesion regardless of where it has been left in the game, is simply not the way it should be. Neither by the setting of the game nor by any realistic approach.
Such conviction is only borne of a historical processes which ultimatively led to the modern world. Possession vs. Ownership. Your legal ownership (right of property) is secured by laws. Yet your possession of something is secured by your physical ability. But the game`s setting it actually IS about the loss of laws and old structures. The player community has either to define AND enforce the rules/laws in that world, or accept the risk of having none.
Laws and rules are made by a society a player chooses to live in. Where in the real world every place on earth has a society, this game has not.

As you can read in that statement, i would actually vote for public stuff outside of tribe territory. But it is only fair, and logical, to give that supposedly public stuff a possibilty to lock up. (And lockpicking then of course)
I can accept the tribe-safe-zone as a minimum of player comfort (as it is still a game). But beyond that, everything should behave as the game´s intention and setting dictate. The devs still fail to deliver that, though it is promised for after prelude.

[Jadzia]

Thanks for the input Redus.

I think it is safe to say that everyone knows I would enjoy a full loot FFA style game... however I know that this isn't going to work for XSYON. I enjoy killing people far more than any other aspect in any ther game.
I get completely annoyed by folks that continue to slam my posts for being so "hardcore" or unrealistic when just about ever posted suggestion I have ever made was about compomise that would please crafter and pvper... all I get back is crap from the crafters saying its too tough. I wish everyone would try to think about aspects from different playstyles without being greedy or self serving. Offer up good solutions and conversations.. I'm not a forrum warrior.. I'm actually trying to help the game out by posting here.
If you want a full loot system implemented right now thats not a good solution since it would turn the game into a gankfest. The aligment system the devs planned have to be in place at first to avoid it. Once its implemented I'm all for full loot.

The public bins outside tribe areas are another question. You didn't suggest a compromise again, you only want the permissions to be removed. What do you suggest in return ? A locking system on the bins or a timer before they turn into public is a compromise.

If you want a compromise then you have to suggest something that has benefits for both types of players, the ones who want some safety and the ones who want free thieving-killing. If you suggest something that is good only to one type of players then don't be surprised when the other side resists.

[coca]

So everyone here thinks that making bins public would revolutionalize the game? LOL! It will only make people make more turns to get resources home. That's it. None of you have given this ANY reasonable thought of how would that affect the game. Only thing you are interessted is to take stuff from others so you are not bored. Again LOL.

Decay is what you should aim for and you should all start working for a living. If you want realism looters should be hanged high each time when caught. My item is my item regardless of where I left it in the world. Until I have good mechanism protecting my property you should not have a good mechanism of stealing my stuff without any punishment.

Decay, locks and traps. Then we can talk. Why should stealing be made so easy? There is 0 reasons to allow griefers to rule this game. Now go and pave a junkpile if you don't like it.

It would require people to actually leave their tribal areas more often and take up a risk instead of being able to craft their skills to max without the consequence of loss.

It would perhaps require you to have someone help you keep watch or patrol an area.. thus creating more a a community game.

I do no think this games intentions where to make it safe mode and easy for solo players to do everything the game has to offer without help from anyone or without fear of loss.


If you want a full loot system implemented right now thats not a good solution since it would turn the game into a gankfest. The aligment system the devs planned have to be in place at first to avoid it. Once its implemented I'm all for full loot.

The public bins outside tribe areas are another question. You didn't suggest a compromise again, you only want the permissions to be removed. What do you suggest in return ? A locking system on the bins or a timer before they turn into public is a compromise.

If you want a compromise then you have to suggest something that has benefits for both types of players, the ones who want some safety and the ones who want free thieving-killing. If you suggest something that is good only to one type of players then don't be surprised when the other side resists.

I understand a FFA wouldn't work.. that is why I am no longer suggesting it.. I actually don't want safe tribal areas at all but have settled with it in its current form becuase so many people had others ideas...

Having locked bins inside IS ALREADY a compromise "WE" pvpers have made.

I wouldn't mind a lock pick and a pick pocket ability though since you asked. But I am more concerend with something being done now that is viable.. look at all the things that are promised and in the works by the devs own words.. versus whats actually been implemented and done. I am trying to think of the most simple and quickest form to fix this issue while we wait.

I wouldn't LOVE a timer but would rather a timer over the current system. Atleast the abadoned junk would properly be able to be removed by players since they devs haven't activated some sort of decay system to handle it.

[Jadzia]

It would require people to actually leave their tribal areas more often and take up a risk instead of being able to craft their skills to max without the consequence of loss.

It would perhaps require you to have someone help you keep watch or patrol an area.. thus creating more a a community game.

I do no think this games intentions where to make it safe mode and easy for solo players to do everything the game has to offer without help from anyone or without fear of loss.



I understand a FFA wouldn't work.. that is why I am no longer suggesting it.. I actually don't want safe tribal areas at all but have settled with it in its current form becuase so many people had others ideas...

Having locked bins inside IS ALREADY a compromise "WE" pvpers have made.

I wouldn't mind a lock pick and a pick pocket ability though since you asked. But I am more concerend with something being done now that is viable.. look at all the things that are promised and in the works by the devs own words.. versus whats actually been implemented and done. I am trying to think of the most simple and quickest form to fix this issue while we wait.

I wouldn't LOVE a timer but would rather a timer over the current system. Atleast the abadoned junk would properly be able to be removed by players since they devs haven't activated some sort of decay system to handle it.

Having locked bins can't really be called a compromise, since its a promised game feature. You bought the game by knowing that. The Feature page says 'Player owned protected storage.' This was one of the main reason I bought the game together with 'Player owned protected housing.'. I am willing to compromise with a timer on bins outside of tribal areas to make the game more interesting for you and others and to avoid mess on the ground.

[xyberviri]

aye, you go around finding random bins of stuff off totems and there full of stuff, maybe if some one else was able to pick that stuff up we would speed up the game slow downs.

also we need a totem removal system for all those homesteads that haven't been online in over a month.

[NexAnima]

I would rather just see a 5-10 minute timer on all items left outside of a tribe zone deleted. You may not see it as a problem now, but in the future item count is going to kill the stability of any game.

There's no reason to allow 10k bags and bins left scattered around the world, locked or not...

[coca]

Having locked bins can't really be called a compromise, since its a promised game feature. You bought the game by knowing that. The Feature page says 'Player owned protected storage.' This was one of the main reason I bought the game together with 'Player owned protected housing.'. I am willing to compromise with a timer on bins outside of tribal areas to make the game more interesting for you and others and to avoid mess on the ground.

I would argue that outside of your housing or tribal land a bin is no longer owned by anyone and isn't intended to be player protected.... it is has been abandoned.

You suggested lock picking and I agree it would be a good compromise..I wouldn't think it should be used inside of tribal areas... only out in the wild if it were to be implemented. A random "stealing skill " might could be done inside someone tribal area... it would have to be totally random without sight as to what the contents are in the bag.

[xyberviri]

I would rather just see a 5-10 minute timer on all items left outside of a tribe zone deleted. You may not see it as a problem now, but in the future item count is going to kill the stability of any game.

There's no reason to allow 10k bags and bins left scattered around the world, locked or not...

Item decay for bins not protected by shelter are the reason for this, if it was turned on all those bins would go poof after a while.

[ColonelTEE3]

Until I have good mechanism protecting my property you should not have a good mechanism of stealing my stuff without any punishment.

Homesteads.

There, you already have a good mechanism for protecting your property. Now go away you boring little troll.


Having locked bins can't really be called a compromise, since its a promised game feature. You bought the game by knowing that. The Feature page says 'Player owned protected storage.' This was one of the main reason I bought the game together with 'Player owned protected housing.'. I am willing to compromise with a timer on bins outside of tribal areas to make the game more interesting for you and others and to avoid mess on the ground.

A timer on bins outside tribe land, like you suggested, is a good compromise in my opinion. So would lockpicking/locking, but this latter idea will take way too long to implement like coca said, and we need a solution now, not in 6 months when this game is even more of a desert than it already is.

Right now it seems like a "timer-until-public" mechanism is the best compromise that can be made that is still simple enough that we can hope for it to be implemented sooner rather than later.

[kaskas]

I started playing this past weekend, and i have to say i am shocked to find out i can simply place a bag on the floor full of stuff and people cant actually take it.. Ive been running back and forth to my homestead, and making sure if i got something of value (or what i considered valuable) to return fast to my homestead and get it to safety...

I thought this game would be like felluca in Ultima Online, if you die outside a safe area, anything on you can be taken, and your homestead/tribe area you would be in trammel, ie safe..

Then not only can you place bags on the floor, you can throw your packpack on the floor during combat making it safe? Or is the bag safe even if u die with it on? I can already see people putting their weapons/armor into these bags when they see theyre going to die..

When i set my homestead and started going out in search for materials for crafting, i kept watching over my shoulder constantly, always ready to fight back (or most likely in my early stage, to make a run for it), now i see that theres no point to that, just let them kill me, they get nothing because its all in my backpack which they cant take if i drop... What do you know the pvp aspect just became even worse.. theres little to no benefit to it, other than to have fun. To have said fun you have to have people to fight against, if crafters can be just that, crafters, and have no need to defend themselves... no comment.. Im not really looking to become a "ganker" praying on the weak.. (for starters im the one thats weak atm) but i did hope for a challenge like in uo... i remember the days where crafters had to be able to defend themselves...

Ive read the 9 pages of this thread, and theres only really 1 person who is completely opposed to "public bags" outside of a safe zone...? and the person i have in mind has not mentioned a single viable or reasonable reason why this should stay as it is. Only "Book" has mentioned what i would consider actual reasons to not change the private bags issue (tho from what i understood he was neither for or against).
As has been mentioned atm, theres is no risk involved at all, since you can just run around naked while crafting, you dont even have to equip anything.. There arnt even any animals around atm to at least force u to carry a weapon to defend yourself against them..

Id sugest bags being set to public by default to avoid ppl droping their backpacks during combat to not get looted, a short timer for bags placed on the floor outside of your safe area.. and possibly a longer timer for bags placed within your homestead/tribe when the tribe is disbanded. What i mean is if i have a bunch of bags in my homestead and i want to move, let me place a new totem and give me a couple hours to move my stuff over, i guess a max amount of totems or tribe hops per certain amount of time would be required to avoid abuse, eg i leave tribe, setup homestead by the resource i want to be able to place private bags within it, disband when i finish and join my tribe again...

So atm, i consider myself to be a crafter, however without the risk of being killed and loosing everything i have with me, i find this is totally boring there was more risk in mining/herbing in wow, thats just sad.. (pvp server, getting attacked by opposing faction and somehow getting last hit by an npc which u had accidentally hit using aoe... yea fat chance but still seems riskier, or simply being corpse camped..), lets see which fanboi comes to tell me to go back to wow due to this comment, i can venture a guess following this threads pattern but i rather not be too rude.

If theres going to be no risk at all, removing practically any possible gain from pvp i dont think this will be the game for me... i understand they need to implement the whole good/bad system thing? i assume this is a sort of red/blue system like they had in uo? (the only downside to being a red was not being able to access towns, however u were not limited to one single character, which i believe is another flaw in this game imo, i wanted to have a good and an evil character.. oh well) I heard something about refunds?

Anyway thats just my opinion...

TLDR : In favor (putting it lightly) of public bags outside homestead/tribe areas (not to mention fully lootable corpses outside safe areas) and private bags within safe areas..

[MrDDT]

Just note that they are not safe, they are sorta safe.

Someone can come along and drop a totem near your bins/bags/baskets and take the whole thing, even if they are set to private. Just FYI.

Having said that, they shouldnt be safe IMO as I have said before. Im with you on the UO fel issue.

[ColonelTEE3]

Just note that they are not safe, they are sorta safe.

Someone can come along and drop a totem near your bins/bags/baskets and take the whole thing, even if they are set to private. Just FYI.

Having said that, they shouldnt be safe IMO as I have said before. Im with you on the UO fel issue.

I know this, and i've done it, but we shouldn't have to respond to one broken game mechanic by using another broken game mechanic to get around it, thats just.... retarded.

[LennyLeak]

I totally agree with kaskas, and find myself in the exact same situation. However I am in favour of the limit of one character pr. account, but that is another issue.

I am mainly a crafter, and I am not planning to jump on peeps in the woods. But I find that the risk of beeing jumped is what makes the game exciting. I bought this game because it seemed to be 'FFA Full Loot PvP'. I'm not saying that devs have stated that, that is just what I thought. It would seem to me that people hiding all their stuff in 'private' bags and dropping them when attacked, is not 'full loot', and it at least feels like an exploit.
I am also in favour of the "no private bins outside homesteads". I understand that it is inconvenient for crafters such as myself, but once again it just feels like cheating to me.
As I am a crafter I am in luck. I simply choose not to pack my stuff in a private bag, and I do not put down private containers outside my homestead. That way I am still at risk. But with the current rules the PvP'ers have no real incentive to attack me, so alas I am de facto more or less safe from attack.

To sum up: With my first post on this forum I vote for no private containers outside homesteads.

Regards,
Lenny

PS: I need to say though - I am absolutely loving this game so far! Cant wait to see more features implemented.

[Plague]

Homesteads.

There, you already have a good mechanism for protecting your property. Now go away you boring little troll.



Acctually it is you who is trolling to get changes implemented that less then 20% of the population wants. Troll harder, maybe they will listen. Cry them a river and maybe you can flood them with your tears enough to get few public bins so you can feel big while stealing stuff.

[coca]

In my latest post to virtus concerning these issues I decided to go to the update pages and list all the official updates and stances on private bag to indeeed show you the intentions of bins and privlages. Please take a look. I think Plague and Xerbi might be surprised.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6436-Virtus-can-we-get-an-official-responce-about-bins

[ColonelTEE3]

Acctually it is you who is trolling to get changes implemented that less then 20% of the population wants. Troll harder, maybe they will listen. Cry them a river and maybe you can flood them with your tears enough to get few public bins so you can feel big while stealing stuff.

Look around, friend, you're pretty much alone on this one.

Even Jadzia, whom i am usually completely against on most topics about this game, could agree to a compromise that we both approved of. No one wants this system but you.

[Dirt]

In my opinion, private baskets in public areas are completely unrealistic. The game is already too easy at this point and without some challenges a guy just loses interest, does'nt he? How come a basket can be dropped out of safe zone and remain private? Why?
Maybe its a temporary thing? An earlier post mentioned thievery/lockpicking being implemented but even so, who could'nt smash and grab a frigging basket made of grass? Gives the crafter (i am one) another advantage beyond the safe zone he/she already has. The safe zone is a huge advantage in my opinion and should possibly be the only advantage given to us. It has already angered the pvp crowd and i think that this magic-basket deal only further alienates these guys, the guys who help keep the game interesting, or used to i should say.
After some more thinkings, i suppose there must be a reason they have these baskets in like they do. I just don't know what it is, someone does though. It was also stated earlier that "secure personal storage" would be a feature in game. Would this not be our safezones? I would assume so, and expect no more than my safe zone for secure storage. It turns out though, that because i totem hopped, i also have a magic basket! Totally unintentional, but there it sits, about 60 metres from my main post. Its completely full of Dirt. No one can touch it. What am i some sort of hypocrite? I better log in and empty it and move it home.

[MrDDT]

In my opinion, private baskets in public areas are completely unrealistic. The game is already too easy at this point and without some challenges a guy just loses interest, does'nt he? How come a basket can be dropped out of safe zone and remain private? Why?
Maybe its a temporary thing? An earlier post mentioned thievery/lockpicking being implemented but even so, who could'nt smash and grab a frigging basket made of grass? Gives the crafter (i am one) another advantage beyond the safe zone he/she already has. The safe zone is a huge advantage in my opinion and should possibly be the only advantage given to us. It has already angered the pvp crowd greatly and i think that this magic-basket deal is rediculous and only further alienates the pvp crowd, the guys who keep the game interesting, or used to i should say.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6436-Virtus-can-we-get-an-official-responce-about-bins?p=76663&viewfull=1#post76663

Pretty much the same topic.
Devs are working on it, and I know its not meant to be that way.

[Dirt]

O.k., thats right on. missed that thread.

[SnowMiser]

Someone brought this up in local and i believe in this problem too, but its rarely brought up.

Right now bins can be set to private, and you can throw them down anywhere in the wilderness and no one can do anything about it, except for drop a totem down on it to claim it. This seems a little bit broken.

Another problem that comes along with this is dropping your bags before you die in pvp.

About to lose a duel and all your tools and scavenged rares are on you? No worries, just click and drag your private bin on the ground and die. Come back to pick it up later.

What the hell is this?

If you successfully hide it behind rocks or trees, then great. But if some very perceptive explorer finds it, they shouldn't be stopped by a white texted message of magic.

If you are about to lose a fight, you shouldn't get away scot free. You lost because of the choices leading up to that fight, and because of your inability to defend yourself, so you have to pay a price for that.

Bins outside of tribal or homestead territory SHOULD BE PUBLIC ACCESS TO ALL.

Totally agree...this above everything needs to be fixed....this should be priority #1

[ColonelTEE3]

Totally agree...this above everything needs to be fixed....this should be priority #1

I dont know if its priority 1, but its something very simple i think could use a nice quick fix. Based on what Coca said the dev told him, it's in the works to be changed, which im very glad to hear.

[d3m0nd0]

Look around, friend, you're pretty much alone on this one.

Even Jadzia, whom i am usually completely against on most topics about this game, could agree to a compromise that we both approved of. No one wants this system but you.

Just ignore Plague, hes a fail troll, who spamms the suggestion thread with a million bad idea's no one likes, and shit talks everyone who has good idea's that everyone but him likes.

[Hanover]

Just ignore Plague, hes a fail troll, who spamms the suggestion thread with a million bad idea's no one likes, and shit talks everyone who has good idea's that everyone but him likes.

I do find its name rather fitting, looking forward to the rage quit.

[Plague]

LOL! Here you are trolling about private bins as if this will make or break a game and calling me a troll? Why don't you go and terraform some more in sea of your "whaaaa public bins now" tears.

How long is "solve bin problem" thread and how long are other threads that really require attention? PHAIL NOOBS! Now go cry to your momma that ebil Plague is keeping all his possesions in untouchable bins.

[d3m0nd0]

You really do fail as a troll. You should go back to carebear, posting retarded suggestions that no one likes, k brah?