Virtus can we get an official responce about bins?

[coca]

Virtus can you or any other guides and devs take a look at "The-problem-with-private-bins-outside-of-homes" topic and give us an official explaination of bin mechanics and inteded functions.

Or atleast give us a heads up if it is something you guys are looking into. I was told ingame that I needed to get help outside of the game concerning these questions.. so this is my plee..


Thanks very much !


The main discussion is found here:
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6389-The-problem-with-private-bins-outside-of-homes

[xyberviri]

do you know that item decay for bins that are not protected by shelter are going to nuke most of those random bins people find.

once that is turned on the bins being left in world wont be a issue, the dropping stuff for pvp will

please stop making posts outside of that thread about that thread

[dxwarlock]

with the issues of:
lag, zones desyncs, tress not regrowing, none working tooltips, no decay on items, no tribe size auto adjust, the new stats and what they effect issues, and numerous other 'big' issues.

not being able to get into someones random bag in the wild is the biggest game breaker for you?

[Tandarie]

with the issues of:
lag, zones desyncs, tress not regrowing, none working tooltips, no decay on items, no tribe size auto adjust, the new stats and what they effect issues, and numerous other 'big' issues.

not being able to get into someones random bag in the wild is the biggest game breaker for you?

lol Agreed

[fatboy21007]

tribe size auto adjust works fine for me, gaining +10m per member. I know this for a fact as i check out my borders everytime i gain a member.

[dxwarlock]

tribe size auto adjust works fine for me, gaining +10m per member. I know this for a fact as i check out my borders everytime i gain a member.

I mean the auto changing sizes..from band to clan to tribe. disbanding and having to reform to gain your new size to get your new radius is painful. they are suppose to be worknig on that also.

wasnt a complain on my part for them to rush it, just stating that it is one, of a much bigger community complaint list, than a locked bag.

[coca]

do you know that item decay for bins that are not protected by shelter are going to nuke most of those random bins people find.

once that is turned on the bins being left in world wont be a issue, the dropping stuff for pvp will

please stop making posts outside of that thread about that thread

WHEN ????

Have you seen how long stuff has been proposed without even the slightest bit of added content. Nothing has been added or implemented since 4 months before beta ended.


with the issues of:
lag, zones desyncs, tress not regrowing, none working tooltips, no decay on items, no tribe size auto adjust, the new stats and what they effect issues, and numerous other 'big' issues.

not being able to get into someones random bag in the wild is the biggest game breaker for you? by your own arguement deleting random bags not being used all over the world would help to solve some of your other noted problems.. lag and loading issues. It would help the economy and clean up the map as well.

I don't care about the loot .. I have everything in this game I care to have.


I mean the auto changing sizes..from band to clan to tribe. disbanding and having to reform to gain your new size to get your new radius is painful. they are suppose to be worknig on that also.

wasnt a complain on my part for them to rush it, just stating that it is one, of a much bigger community complaint list, than a locked bag.

It's about game mechanics.. is this game going to cave to people that want easy mode... going directly against the games premise of being a fight for survival... a side benifit is what I've stated above about lag and less items to lead.. but it is relevant. You guys act like I am crying over a specific basket or like I am in need of items.. It has nothing to do with my intrests or wants of ingame items. this should also be a very easy fix.

I am nore intrested if this is actually intended.. a bug.. or an unforseen action due to quick programing. I want an official responce. I am not demanding an instant fix.
I want clarification.

I cannot beleive you guys... no one in their right mind, would think a wallet dropped in the world would have a chance in hell of sitting out in the open for day and day with your green back protected.... hell no someone is probably goingt o grab your cash and run like hell.. if your lucky they will leave the wallet behind.

Can you give me any real argueement as to why you think the devs inteded on random items in the world being secure.. or how that enhances game play. I feel like I am always spoon feeding you guys and all your replies are always shut up make it easy..

[dxwarlock]

by your own argueement deleting random bags not being used all over the world would help to solve some of your other noted problems.. lag and loading issues. It would help the economy and clean up the map as well.

I don't care about the loot .. I have everything in thhis game I care to have times about 100.

depends, has it been proven that the bags are a large contributing factor to the zone desyncs and lag? if not, then starting 2 threads demanding a timeline on fixing issues that quite possibly aren't related to the biggest issue driving people off comes across as both misleading on the intent, and causing the shift of whats making the playerbase leave seems skewed as a small issue is portrayed as a higher priority.

the reason behind why you wish bags lootable is no concern of mine. its no more or less valid than the complaints I have against other mechanics.

but to convey it in a manner to agree with me in as "if they fix X, for me they fix Y for you so its in your best interest to agree with my request" when X and Y have not been proven related beyond theorycraft by armchair programmers isn't needed.

not once in your thread about lootable bags has lag, or lack, of been a driving force behind your request.
Random thieving inside an tribal area, taking abandoned bags, being able to take from bags found, and the cheap tactic people use of dropping when dying to lock it, has been the reasoning. Stay with with motivation behind your request you dont need to adapt it to appeal to the ones on the other side of the fence each time they bring a counter offer:)

I'm merely stating they have bigger fish to fry than bag issues.

also


It's about game mechanics.. is this game going to cave to people that want easy mode... going directly against the games premise of being a fight for survival... a side benifit is what I've stated above about lag and less items to lead.. but it is relevant. You guys act like I am crying over a specific basket or like I am in need of items.. It has nothing to do with my intrests or wants of ingame items. this should also be a very easy fix.

I am nore intrested if this is actually intended.. a bug.. or an unforseen action due to quick programing. I want an official responce. I am not demanding an instant fix.
I want clarification.

I cannot beleive no one in their right mind would think a wallet dropped in the world would have a chance in hell of sitting out in the open for day and day with your green back protected.... hell no someone is probably goingt o grab your cash and run like hell.. if your lucky they will leave the wallet behind.

Can you give me any real argument as to why do you think the devs inteded on random items in the world being secure.. or how that enahances game play.

no i agree, its an issue that needs looking into, but your determination on getting it looked into is a personal endeavor..in the light of all the bugs, its a much smaller issue than getting the game running correctly to start with.

which is what leads us to believe its a gamebreaking issue to you personally, as in your mind it requires 2 threads, and a hijack of a unrelated thread about polls to get it marked as "emergency fix needed!"

Im not downplaying the need to fix it in anyway..again Im merely stating on the scale of big game killing issues that people are leaving over, I seriously doubt that its even in the top 10 of the reasons.

let them fix the top 10, then move down the list.

its equal to making multiple posts in rift about how you think the PvP random drop rate of items is too low, when the game has crash to desktop issues, lag issues, and people loosing character soul layouts to bugs.

[xyberviri]

also your able to drop tribe at any time and drop a totem to get rid of the bags if there that much of a issue to you.

[coca]

It is a fundamental issue that bring several issues together. Items in the world directly correleates to loading lag (loading entitites tag)

I have mentioend the need for clarification if this was intended or not hopeing to find an official responce. I think personally it is an exploit and I have yet to hear an official word about
it one way or another.

If it isn't an exploit is it working 100% as intended and is it going to change or not. I offer reason to why I think it shouldn't be that way.. all you two are offering is forum trolling.

If the game is pandering to a few crafters that dont want to lose crafted items in the wilderness.. I am afaird to invest much more time and effort and feel alot better about making a decision before our subscription time runs out. I've raised alot of concern over permissions.. as it relates to bag permissions being exploited to prevent being looted.
I've also mentioned premissions being exploited by dropping your main pack while fighting to aviod possible loss. As well as dropping a totem to avoid pvp alltogether in the middle of a fight. These things need to be fixed or your giving no reason to pvp at all.. so in turn alot of player like myself leave.. the game gets even more boreing and eventually fails.

This game needs all kinds of players and play styles.. I am looking out for other people besides crafters intrests. Crafters already have working system... safe zones and things to stay busy with.. pvpers have broken weapons.. broken mechanics and no reason to fight currently.. and this is VIRTUS's own words "this is a pvp game, if you are out of the safe zone you are free game." It would seem like your left loot would be the same.

And I would vote for loot decaying after a few hours in the wilderness .. that would be fine with me as well.

You can't be serious xerb thinking that dropping a totem to look into a bag in the world is an intended mechanic.

[dxwarlock]

I wasnt arguing that point coca, I agree it needs to be looked into. but as far as IF its the lag causer, or even a major part of it (it could be related, but say 10%, so wouldnt you want to look at the 90% of the issue first?)

either way, until its found and verified by devs that bags cause all/none/some of the lag, that argument point is invalid for either of us to use as a reason to expedite the bag looting fixes.

if you are truly concerned about it, quietly create a bug submission for it, and wait for a response. sure you might say "but that takes forever to get a reply to".

sure it might, but no longer than posting on the forums.
for the mods to see, to direct to the guides, to direct to the devs..for the devs to reply to the mods, to let you know (if that chain of communication even makes it the full round trip).

I see if as if you truly have an issue, concern...just like at a job:
You can complain directly to the ones involved thought the correct channels, or you can complain at the water fountain to your co -workers (forums) and hope the boss catches a bit of it while passing by.

one gets the job done with little effort as possible, the other takes a lot more effort, but does work well to publicly gossip and announce to your co-workers your disdain for things out of their control.

but I compelety agree bags outside of totem area, should be fixed to have some mechanic to open them.
be it a timer, or after person that drops it leaves farther than X meters away (they cant guard it if they cant see it).

[MrDDT]

Im right there with you Coca.
Im of the opinion that it should take time to drop a totem, and time to remove one.
Im also of the opinion that containers in the wild off your totem should be public use.

[coca]

Here, I deicded to spend 2 hours searching old posts in order to get something official since everyone would rather say I was a dumbass or lazy or the guides would rather tell you what they thought instead of asking a dev for clarification.. this is what was stated in the past officially but hasn't worked since launch.



Xsyon Update July 26



Update July 26:

A new update has been patched out.

This update includes:

Container and object permissions. Currently these are set to what players can expect within their own tribal zone. Once tribes are set up, object permissions outside tribal zones will allow for stealing.

Improvements to Creature AI.

Fixes for over 50 bugs including collision failures across zones, problems with armor parts, slots in the 3rd and 4th belt pouches and minor interface problems.

Lots of other important secret stuff in progress.

Permissions for existing objects and container might not work correctly. I am planning on a full character wipe this week so that we can make sure the permission settings are working properly.

Patch oct 8

Notes:

The tribe panel is very basic at the moment. You can create a tribe totem and claim territory.

Leaders can not abandon their tribe. This will be changed in the next feature update which will include more tribe and rank settings.

Tribes require only 5 members right now.

You should be safe from attacks and being looted if you are in your own tribe territory. You are not safe in other tribe's territories. We will change this soon based on tribe settings to allow allies to be safe.


Oct 19

Deleting a character should properly free objects in containers

Nov 10

Tribes are removed if the last player abandons tribe.

[AngelusDD]

LOL, funny. again. interesting opinions about why people leave that game.
and both coca and dxwarlock are wrong somehow....or at least not fully correct.

1. why should people leave the game just because the border zone crossing is a bit laggy? its annoying for sure, but no gamebreaker.

2.why are crafters needs satisfied with the current system? crafting is a pure joke. childrens play. i admit, its the only thing that can be done ingame, but it definately does not make any crafter stay ingame. its fubar, just as pvp is. even more. it ruined the economy, the value of things, yes even the purpose for looting. so crafting even affects pvp!

[Dubanka]

haven't you heard?

pvp is not a focus of prelude.

you will keep preparing...to see another player one day...and you will like it!

[Jadzia]

Container and object permissions. Currently these are set to what players can expect within their own tribal zone. Once tribes are set up, object permissions outside tribal zones will allow for stealing.
Seems the problem is that stealing is not implemented yet.


You are not safe in other tribe's territories. We will change this soon based on tribe settings to allow allies to be safe.
This sounds good, I forgot that this is planned.

I don't know if the bag permissions outside of tribe zones is a bug or not, if its intended or not. But to get rid of the bags we need an option to destroy them or a very fast decay (total break in like 1-2 days) outside of tribe zones, stealing from bags won't solve anything lag-wise.

[temur]

yeah coca guy, spends more time on forums then he does ingame ...
saw coca getting mad on local cuz he couldnt kill a guy that was scavenging , instantly called him a 'sploiter' followed up by more drama talk.

Whats your proof that the container thing is a lag issue ???

[Dubanka]

yeah coca guy, spends more time on forums then he does ingame ...
saw coca getting mad on local cuz he couldnt kill a guy that was scavenging , instantly called him a 'sploiter' followed up by more drama talk.

Whats your proof that the container thing is a lag issue ???

the forums are more entertaining than the game.

he doesn't need to give proof because YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE PROOF!

i like mud huts.
and hats.

[dxwarlock]

in true Dubanka fashion, +1 to post count with +0 to thread contribution. :D

[kaskas]

I have to agree with both, coca and dxwarlock. I only started playing this weekend, but pvp is idd broken and no real reward for it, whereas crafting has absolutelly no risk tied to it. Recieving some info on whether this will change at all to know if a person wants to spend more time ingame or not is a valid concern.
I agree that atm, the fact that there are no animals, a lack of trees, and massive lag/delay when switching zones is more of a gamebreaker atm for me. Ive explored around many areas, i started 4 different times in different areas and explored the mountains looking for some secluded area to setup my homestead (thats a LOT of hours exploring) and have yet to see an animal. As for the cointainers being a lag issue... i believe we can all agree that it is definetly not helping the issue.

[MrDDT]

I have to agree with both, coca and dxwarlock. I only started playing this weekend, but pvp is idd broken and no real reward for it, whereas crafting has absolutelly no risk tied to it. Recieving some info on whether this will change at all to know if a person wants to spend more time ingame or not is a valid concern.
I agree that atm, the fact that there are no animals, a lack of trees, and massive lag/delay when switching zones is more of a gamebreaker atm for me. Ive explored around many areas, i started 4 different times in different areas and explored the mountains looking for some secluded area to setup my homestead (thats a LOT of hours exploring) and have yet to see an animal. As for the cointainers being a lag issue... i believe we can all agree that it is definetly not helping the issue.


Its planned to change, but whats planned doesnt always work out. Dont forget Prelude is the time to build up towns. Which is why there is protections, later their will be no protections like this. You will also be able to take tribe lands from people by force.

[Dubanka]

in true Dubanka fashion, +1 to post count with +0 to thread contribution. :D
content is over rated.

you're just envious of the post count.

but for content:
a bin left astray, should be vulnerable to all kinds of things.
if it's locked (how do you lock a grass bin?) you should be able to pick it.
if you cant pick it, you should be able to cut it open, at risk of it's contents being all or partially destroyed.
if you let it sit, it should decay.

if you want to craft in the peace, quiet, and safety, bring that crap back to you mud hut and have a blast.

but...this conversation is so 2 months ago, and probably a year ago before that as well.

like i said, content is over rated.

[ColonelTEE3]

yeah coca guy, spends more time on forums then he does ingame ...
saw coca getting mad on local cuz he couldnt kill a guy that was scavenging , instantly called him a 'sploiter' followed up by more drama talk.

Whats your proof that the container thing is a lag issue ???

Irony.

I'm the one he got mad at and had an argument with, but im completely on the same page with him about this and most other aspects of how the game is and should be.

[dxwarlock]

content is over rated.

you're just envious of the post count.

some small number on a random webpage forum among the millions of them stating how much time I spend prowling them to people I dont know is no major concern of mine :)

I just like poking fun at you, your of the few that doesnt get that "OMGWTF, you just dishonored me on a site? I take that as a personal and invasive challenge to my very moral fiber, and I shall with teen rage angst defend my online honor!" mentality about it on here.

[NexAnima]

yeah coca guy, spends more time on forums then he does ingame ...
saw coca getting mad on local cuz he couldnt kill a guy that was scavenging , instantly called him a 'sploiter' followed up by more drama talk.

Whats your proof that the container thing is a lag issue ???

Really? You seem to ignore MMO 101.) More items in the world = more lag/server stress. Items left outside of a tribe zone should last no more then 24 hours and be completely loot-able. Bins and bags held should not have any permissions on it if the player is killed. Anything otherwise is an exploit, If you can defend this then please do.

[Dade512]

Really? You seem to ignore MMO 101.) More items in the world = more lag/server stress. Items left outside of a tribe zone should last no more then 24 hours and be completely loot-able. Bins and bags held should not have any permissions on it if the player is killed. Anything otherwise is an exploit, If you can defend this then please do.

That would make more sense. Hopefully item decay will be in before long.
I was pretty disappointed to find that bags could end up non-lootable when wearing them. I was dueling a guy so I put an item in my pack for him to get if/when he won. Cept he couldn't get it because our basketweaver had forgot to set permissions to something other than private. =\ haha

[GoralPL]

some small number on a random webpage forum among the millions of them stating how much time I spend prowling them to people I dont know is no major concern of mine :)

I just like poking fun at you, your of the few that doesnt get that "OMGWTF, you just dishonored me on a site? I take that as a personal and invasive challenge to my very moral fiber, and I shall with teen rage angst defend my online honor!" mentality about it on here.

Thy choice of words amuses me. 2 years ago I would of had to use a translator to figure out what the hell you just said :P

(and I think everyone likes to make fun of Dubanka :O)

[coca]

Seems the problem is that stealing is not implemented yet.


This sounds good, I forgot that this is planned.

I don't know if the bag permissions outside of tribe zones is a bug or not, if its intended or not. But to get rid of the bags we need an option to destroy them or a very fast decay (total break in like 1-2 days) outside of tribe zones, stealing from bags won't solve anything lag-wise.

Jad I think your taking that as him suggesting a "stealing skill." I believe he used that word meaning to pick up off the ground and haul ass type of stealing.....


yeah coca guy, spends more time on forums then he does ingame ...
saw coca getting mad on local cuz he couldnt kill a guy that was scavenging , instantly called him a 'sploiter' followed up by more drama talk.

Whats your proof that the container thing is a lag issue ???

That guy was actually lagged so bad me or a guide couldn't figure out what was going on as we stood there and watched. later we both faught each other but the lag was so horrid we couldn't hit each other. I didn't raise hell.. I ribbed him a little and after we found it was a lag issue I never mentioned it again.

Oh and I am on the forums becuase the game is kinda dull right now and there wasn't anyone on to kill last night..

okay you got me there was three... *shouts out to Xenogant Versus and that other random scrub-a-dub* Atleast he had armor on and hadn't used a bag bug trick.. I didn't even loot the dude I was so impressed.

It's sad when people run to their safe zone, I stand outside doing the chicken cluck and no one will play with me .. I have to do something ..soooo I log onto the forums and kill punks here. Don't worry I can't loot your pixels here either...

Added after 5 minutes:


I have to agree with both, coca and dxwarlock. I only started playing this weekend, but pvp is idd broken and no real reward for it, whereas crafting has absolutelly no risk tied to it. Recieving some info on whether this will change at all to know if a person wants to spend more time ingame or not is a valid concern.
I agree that atm, the fact that there are no animals, a lack of trees, and massive lag/delay when switching zones is more of a gamebreaker atm for me. Ive explored around many areas, i started 4 different times in different areas and explored the mountains looking for some secluded area to setup my homestead (thats a LOT of hours exploring) and have yet to see an animal. As for the cointainers being a lag issue... i believe we can all agree that it is definetly not helping the issue.

KasKas some of us have done the play in the empty world and made due now for months.... those things haven't changed so I am making suggestions on other easier changes to see if they might get some attention.

[Mactavendish]

It really is all about decay and full looting.

When decay is in, even in a tent your bins will decay... just much faster out of protection.

When decay and quility works, its only logical they will do some of the things mentioned here like no permissions on bins in the wilds, totems of players that don't sub disappearing to open land, and who knows... maybe even no private permissions upon death.

It will make the game more fun for some and make most of the crafter only types weep do to making it harder on them or at the very least slowing down their progress.

My suggestion is take part in more aspects of the game and keep busy till those things happen.

[NexAnima]

It really is all about decay and full looting.

When decay is in, even in a tent your bins will decay... just much faster out of protection.

When decay and quility works, its only logical they will do some of the things mentioned here like no permissions on bins in the wilds, totems of players that don't sub disappearing to open land, and who knows... maybe even no private permissions upon death.

It will make the game more fun for some and make most of the crafter only types weep do to making it harder on them or at the very least slowing down their progress.

My suggestion is take part in more aspects of the game and keep busy till those things happen.

Source of the bolded?

[LennyLeak]

The accusations that people are wanting public bins because they're griefers that want to steal is so misguided, and kinda looks like trolling to me. As a crafter I am not having fun, if there is no risk involved. The risk of loosing stuff was one of the main reasons I bought this game.

There is a legitimate point in saying, that there are bigger issues out there, and that they should be looked at first.
However, there it also seems legitimate to point out, that some issues are more time consuming than others to fix. Adjusting the settings for baskets, seems to me to be fairly easy to change, and it would go along way for the PvPers. In that light, I would rather that they took a little time to change that, than working non-stop on other issues that wont be fixed for a month (guessing) anyway.

Also, while the lag-issues are a hassle, they are not nearly gamebreakers for me. I would much rather see more features implemented. And with that I agree with above posters, that 'trees' and 'animals' are above bins on my list.
My coding skills are very limited though, and I will leave it up to devs to figure out the optimal cost/benefit ratio of implementing different features. But I dont get why people get upset at others trying to adress the issue. The issue seems valid, and I dont see anything wrong with feeling out the community or devs on this problem. I would also like to know what the future plans are for this issue. Why is that so bad?

Regards,
Lenny

[Mactavendish]

I agree that all issues should be discussed calmly and rationally, but remember this is a forum.

You cannot expect rational communication when a players pet viewpoint seems threatened by anothers.

People just act that way.

Perhaps worry less about what you cannot change ( people and their attitudes ) and more about what you can help change ( feedback to the devs on how the current state of the game affects you personally and what you believe will make it better )

I mean really, do you actually care about the comments made towards others on a forum of anonymous people you don't know personally and that don't know you?

[Hanover]

The current bin mechanics are an absolute joke.

[coca]

Dev desgard takled to me directly today and assured me that bin permissions where being worked on and that Dev's are aware of the problem.

[LennyLeak]

Great news!

[ColonelTEE3]

Dev desgard takled to me directly today and assured me that bin permissions where being worked on and that Dev's are aware of the problem.

My hope for this game is increasing again.

[Hanover]

My hope for this game is increasing again.

I had assumed it was a simple oversight/bug.