Exodus

[Mewmew]

I came into the world with a bright outlook. Even with lag and rollbacks, I was enjoying myself. I was here thinking it was a world builder. A game about creating. How mistaken I was.

PvP was re-enabled. This was the beginning of the end for me. People dying left and right, leaving their whole lot of items. Moving around to try to get resources became silly - I'm the moving target, a lone deer walking through the woods surrounded by giggling pimple faced hunters.

The game is not about building - it's more about tearing down what others build. Sure - our little patches are protected now, but it seems that it won't be like that in the future (from the FAQs). And even if it stayed where a person could have one small protected patch - to turn into a PvP free for all every time you try to explore, get resources, do any little thing, this isn't the least bit fun for me or others who came here thinking it would be a world builder.

I am not calling for the world to be changed. I only wanted a different shard, a different server for those of us who wanted to build.

You may call me whatever names you want to try to embarrass me - I don't care. I'm not a violent person. I'm not going to shut my mouth because you try to humiliate me by calling me negative names ("carebear" etc). The fact is 99% of you that call people Carebears have never been in a fight in your life and would pee your pants if you actually got in one - so in fact you are Carebears in real. So call me what you will.

Will the game survive as it is? Good question. There is an exodus happening. The second exodus. The first happened during the early lag days - they should have hung in there, but a lot left. The second is happening now. It's not fun to get killed by players and lose everything on you when all you're trying to do is build a little homestead. It's not fun to be griefed and have everything around you for resources wiped out because some person thinks it's a gas to do so. I'm not staying here to be the walking target. I am uninstalling the game after I write this post - and there are a great many that are leaving with me.

I don't understand why there can not be a second server. A lot of PvP players think that too many people would play on that server (and if that's the truth, WHY the heck not make it like that if that's how the majority of players want to play?!). And yet the truth is most people who want to play peacefully are going to leave here anyway - completely leaving the game instead of just moving to another server where the company still makes money. A PvE server would keep a huge amount of players here that are leaving, which in turn would keep a lot of money going into the company and keep BOTH servers alive.

I don't know what the whole vision of the game is - I thought it was a builder, not a griefer's paradise. If a PvE world ever appears I may be back (if another game doesn't come up to take this ones place by then). For now I bid this game adieu. I've seen no hints of thoughts of a PvE server and so there is no reason for me to stay.

Near the end of beta when people were killing each other so very much - others said "It's only because they're bored and there's nothing to do and the world is getting wiped and restarted soon." What a joke that was. The killing then was not as bad as it is now.

So here I go - joining the line of people walking off into the distance leaving these lands. The old Gods may have returned, but they must have forsaken me, as my God of protection should have returned as well.

I love the game and idea, I just hate the PKing, griefing, and such.

The ex-darkfall players may be saying "Good riddance" - and that's fine. There may come a day where you wish that this exodus of players didn't happen tho.

Bye bye everybody! Good luck to those of you peaceful types that are trying to hang in there.

[Andy06r]

I don't even understand why I'm trying to persuade you, but you do understand a PvE server wouldn't fix anything right? Sandbox MMO's are primarily driven by scarcity - scarcity for room, scarcity for resources, etc.

On a PvE server if you weren't the first person to a place, you're shit out of luck and would have to go elsewhere. What if where you live has 50 people harvesting trees and animals - how can you compete or encourage them to stop?

If all you want to do is build and build minecraft is a better game without a monthly fee for that - if you want to build and trade with other players you *have* to have pvp, otherwise what drives the demand in the economy? Sandbox games simply do not work without pvp - without the 0.0 wars in EVE the economic of EVE would collapse even though there is a way to play the game which involves minimal amount of combat. You ask us not to call you a carebear but treating pvp'ers as "PKers, griefers" is equally as biased. The fact you can't fathom why I want to stab you (personal gain, turf wars) and risk my assets to kill you is something you should reconsider.

Conflict encourages people to work together, try it sometime.

[pyrate]

A PVE server would not stop the resource "griefing", it would actually encourage it as it would become the only way to create demand. As for PvP, I have been playing since the first week and have not killed or been killed yet, mainly due to the distinct lack of PvP.

I do not know what area you are in, but chances are you are being killed by the same small group over and over and over again. Believe it or not most PvPers actually PvP for a purpose, whether its to get a reward, for loot or for RP. As it stands there is no reward for killing players and there is no loot that you cannot just get yourself easier then spending 4 hours finding someone to kill. My guess is you are setup next to one of the larger tribes who have groups of players who go around and "protect" their borders and nearby resources.

When you look at it from that point of view it is you that is intruding on their territory and taking their resources. The smart thing to do would have been to simply get up and move away from the borders of a large tribe.

[clangedon]

when you bought the game that you read through the content there was open pvp what did you expect pink flowers and a world where no one kills you and steals all?.
the world is full of resources without wear for items you will find yourself full of stuff soon
be killed every time I do not think so if you wanted a serious game pve the market is full of them.
and in the sandbox pvp is the engine of the economy if not the game itself.
and because the pvp is no way this game is dying.

[Jadzia]

PvPers are leaving because there is not enough PvP. Non-PvPers are leaving because there are too much PvP. Jordi, its hight time to separate the 2 type of players...with different servers or which is better, with different zones.

[pyrate]

PvPers are leaving because there is not enough PvP. Non-PvPers are leaving because there are too much PvP. Jordi, its hight time to separate the 2 type of players...with different servers or which is better, with different zones.

Like other posters have said, whether they like it or not, in crafting games PvEers rely on PvPers to create demand for goods and services. PvPers kill everyone. PvEers PvE for their gear back, PvPers buy their gear from PvEers. Without both neither can survive.

[joexxxz]

Like other posters have said, whether they like it or not, in crafting games PvEers rely on PvPers to create demand for goods and services. PvPers kill everyone. PvEers PvE for their gear back, PvPers buy their gear from PvEers. Without both neither can survive.

Well said.

And Jazdia you told me before that you dont want 2 servers??? What you changed your mind so fast???

[Larsa]

... Sandbox MMO's are primarily driven by scarcity - scarcity for room, scarcity for resources, etc.Then, by your own words, Xsyon isn't a sandbox. There's nothing scarce in Xsyon.


... Sandbox games simply do not work without pvp ... There are sandbox games that don't have any combat at all, there are sandbox games that do not have any PvP. Never assume that the recent wargames like Darkfall or MO are in any way typical sandbox games cause they're not - they're practically wargames with a persistent world and a tiny amount of sand thrown in.

[boomer0901]

Seriously in a game like this you have to pick your locations wisely. And why would you load up on stuff going out or coming in, carry less than half full loads and make sure you more than enough energy to run if you have too. I mean come on ppl it's not all that hard to evade, stick by the green mists if you have too, it's hard to track someone in the mist. There is all sorts of way to hide, if you see someone approaching you, actually go to guns or defensive stance and find a hiding spot, don't wait for someone to get right next to you before you decide what to do, work on your hiding skill and find trees (if you have any left in your zone). As long as you don't have a pre-order weapon in your backpack you can drop your basket at anytime (as long as it's not on someone elses land). There really is nothing to fear from pussy crafter gankers. And if all that fails then hire someone to grief them.

If you can't do any of these simple things then yes you probably shouldn't be playing any MMO's

These pussy gankers and griefers are only looking for easy targets, don't present yourself as an easy target and they will not attack, because pvp to a ganker/griefer is an easy win not an even match. If they think there is a chance to lose they probably won't attack. But I can list some guilds that are like this, and I can't really give them credit for an abundance of brains, so you never know :)

Possible solutions:
1. Hire someone to come out with you for protection.
2. Find a few homesteaders that are in the same plight to join up with and salvage, cut down trees together.
3. When doing the above, set down a few baskets to drop loot in occassionally. Just don't leave them there as they are ripe for the pickings if someone places a totem down. More like a temp thing.

I'm sorry, I'll try and not tell anyone how to play, but did you think going solo in a social group game was going to be easy???? Did you think maybe you're doing something wrong, gathering junk with large PK guilds around, not paying attention to your surrondings, could be a lot of stuff, but don't blame the design, the design is the way it was meant to be. Maybe you just have to try something different to get it to work.

[Jadzia]

Like other posters have said, whether they like it or not, in crafting games PvEers rely on PvPers to create demand for goods and services. PvPers kill everyone. PvEers PvE for their gear back, PvPers buy their gear from PvEers. Without both neither can survive.

This is such a bad argument. PvP doesn't create any more demand that PvE couldn't create.

Let's see it.
Say player A wants an armor. Player B wants the same type of armor.
PvE game : Both of them buy it from a crafter. So there is a demand for 2 crafted items.

PvP game: Player A buys the armor. Player B kills player A and takes the armor from him. Player A buys the armor again. So there is a demand for 2 crafted items.

How exactly this boost the economy ??

PvP doesn't create any plus demands, items only shift ownership. If there was item loss on PvP then perhaps yes, but not as it works now. But you can implement item loss on PvE death as well, so no need for PvP for that either.

Only a system which takes items out of the game could boost the economy. It has NOTHING to do with PvP.

@joexxxz:
with different servers or which is better, with different zones.
I didn't change my mind.

[Book]

Sorry to see you go MewMew... it's true that the giggling pimple faced hunters can get a bit annoying, and having to babysit them is not much incentive to log in.

That said, there are also some very cool people in game. It's a shame you didn't get a chance to meet many of them from the sounds of it. I hope you'll give the game another chance down the road. Builders like you often can help create a more relaxed atmosphere which is why many hard working adults choose to play video games.

I understand you're not branding all PvP'ers... just pointing out that without the right mechanics in place, it only takes a handful of little bully wannabes... seen it happen in other games as well. Shame we have to design for the lowest common denominator but that's how it is.

Best of luck in whatever game you try next!

[pyrate]

This is such a bad argument. PvP doesn't create any more demand that PvE couldn't create.

Let's see it.
Say player A wants an armor. Player B wants the same type of armor.
PvE game : Both of them buy it from a crafter. So there is a demand for 2 crafted items.

PvP game: Player A buys the armor. Player B kills player A and takes the armor from him. Player A buys the armor again. So there is a demand for 2 crafted items.

How exactly this boost the economy ??

PvP doesn't create any plus demands, items only shift ownership. If there was item loss on PvP then perhaps yes, but not as it works now. But you can implement item loss on PvE death as well, so no need for PvP for that either.

Only a system which takes items out of the game could boost the economy. It has NOTHING to do with PvP.

@joexxxz:
I didn't change my mind.

PvE - PvE players want Armour, either make armour themself or buys it. PvE players have Armour, do not need new Armour.
PvP - PvPer and PvEer want Armour, PvEer either buys armour or makes it, PvPer buys armour. PvPer kills other PvPers and PvEers, those PvPers and PvEers have to buy new armour. Loop continues.

With no PvP there is limited loss. Demand cannot be sustained with every player buying something once, eventually you get to a point where every PvE player can either make the goods themselves or have everything they want.

[Jadzia]

PvE - PvE players want Armour, either make armour themself or buys it. PvE players have Armour, do not need new Armour.
PvP - PvPer and PvEer want Armour, PvEer either buys armour or makes it, PvPer buys armour. PvPer kills other PvPers and PvEers, those PvPers and PvEers have to buy new armour. Loop continues.

With no PvP there is limited loss. Demand cannot be sustained with every player buying something once, eventually you get to a point where every PvE player can either make the goods themselves or have everything they want.
Seems you didn't understand what I wrote. There is no item loss with PvP, only ownership shifts. Its exactly the same as with PvE. Both system need item decay, that is the only thing that can create demand, when the armors break and can't be repaired.

Say there is 1000 players in a PvP games. They need 1000 armors. If a PvPer kills another player and takes his armor then the PvPer will have 2 of the same armor. So he sells one to another player, who won't buy it from a crafter. The 1000 players will need 1000 armor, no matter if its a PvE system or a PvP one. There is no more demand for armors in a PvP system then in a PvE one.

[pyrate]

Seems you didn't understand what I wrote. There is no item loss with PvP, only ownership shifts. Its exactly the same as with PvE. Both system need item decay, that is the only thing that can create demand, when the armors break and can't be repaired.

Say there is 1000 players in a PvP games. They need 1000 armors. If a PvPer kills another player and takes his armor then the PvPer will have 2 of the same armor. So he sells one to another player, who won't buy it from a crafter. The 1000 players will need 1000 armor, no matter if its a PvE system or a PvP one. There is no more demand for armors in a PvP system then in a PvE one.

You assume that the PvPer will sell back the armour they take, this is not the case. PvPers will stock pile what they get so they themselves will not have to ever buy armour again. Anything that is not really worth anything just gets thrown away. On top of that kill distribution is never equal, it is always a small group that make the majority of kills. The result is a small group of players with an endless supply of goods they take from others, while the majority have to make or buy the goods that the better PvP players take and stockpile.

Since you have a clear distaste for PvP you do not have a clear picture of what is actually involved with being a PvPer.

[Book]

You assume that the PvPer will sell back the armour they take, this is not the case. PvPers will stock pile what they get so they themselves will not have to ever buy armour again. Anything that is not really worth anything just gets thrown away. On top of that kill distribution is never equal, it is always a small group that make the majority of kills. The result is a small group of players with an endless supply of goods they take from others, while the majority have to make or buy the goods that the better PvP players take and stockpile.

Since you have a clear distaste for PvP you do not have a clear picture of what is actually involved with being a PvPer.

I think that model may be what the OP was talking about though. Clearly it works out for the small group that make the majority of the kills. They enjoy killing, they get rewarded for killing, they continue killing. They don't really need to take a break to trade or craft, since they get their needs filled by killing and thus must do more killing. I don't even think the small group in question would enjoy taking a break to trade and craft as the killing rewards the pleasure centers in their brain whereas the PVE/casual PVPers get the pleasure centers activated in a different way which is why it's nearly impossible to get the balance right on the same server, but anyway...

The problem I'm seeing with this is that the majority doesn't necessarily enjoy getting continually killed by the small group. It's just not fun after a while. It's one thing if it's occasional and adds a bit of spice but the small group doesn't generally let up since killing is their primary bread and butter. Again, the killing is rewarding their amygdala which makes them want to kill more. It's more than just the loot, it literally feels good.

It kind of makes the majority that gets killed sound like an elaborate AI-system for the small group to hunt... not really what the majority signed up for I don't think.

[xyberviri]

I think that model may be what the OP was talking about though. Clearly it works out for the small group that make the majority of the kills. They enjoy killing, they get rewarded for killing, they continue killing. They don't really need to take a break to trade or craft, since they get their needs filled by killing and thus must do more killing. I don't even think the small group in question would enjoy taking a break to trade and craft as the killing rewards the pleasure centers in their brain whereas the PVE/casual PVPers get the pleasure centers activated in a different way which is why it's nearly impossible to get the balance right on the same server, but anyway...

The problem I'm seeing with this is that the majority doesn't necessarily enjoy getting continually killed by the small group. It's just not fun after a while. It's one thing if it's occasional and adds a bit of spice but the small group doesn't generally let up since killing is their primary bread and butter. Again, the killing is rewarding their amygdala which makes them want to kill more. It's more than just the loot, it literally feels good.

It kind of makes the majority that gets killed sound like an elaborate AI-system for the small group to hunt... not really what the majority signed up for I don't think.


Right but the issue is really that you parked your totem in a spot that some one else does not want you to be and then you decide "No, i picked this spot because i like the tree right over there, im not going to leave" so you refuse to move and you refuse to fight but then complain when getting killed because they wont leave you alone.

You can even be warned "hey if you setup camp here we are going to kill you every chance there is, please move" but no you want to stay and you want to get killed because you know if you go over here they will attack you.

This is like living in a inner city versus a suburb. you move some where that has gang violence and are warned "dont wear those colors because rival gangs wear them" but "no, im going to wear my pink polo shirt because i shouldn't have to listen to these terrorists" then you go walk over to the quickey mark and then get shot by a gang member.....

This game is basically the wild west with the Land grab that happening, you had good guys, bad guys, griefers and pkers.

The Game is open world PVP your choices are simple, you either move some where, where there are no griefers, you join a tribe, you hire body guards, learn to fight or run. There will be no server splits, no pve only zones, none of that crap. you already have a safe zone, heck some zones are protected by tribes you just need to be social.

[Jadzia]

Right but the issue is really that you parked your totem in a spot that some one else does not want you to be and then you decide "No, i picked this spot because i like the tree right over there, im not going to leave" so you refuse to move and you refuse to fight but then complain when getting killed because they wont leave you alone.

You can even be warned "hey if you setup camp here we are going to kill you every chance there is, please move" but no you want to stay and you want to get killed because you know if you go over here they will attack you.

This is like living in a inner city versus a suburb. you move some where that has gang violence and are warned "dont wear those colors because rival gangs wear them" but "no, im going to wear my pink polo shirt because i shouldn't have to listen to these terrorists" then you go walk over to the quickey mark and then get shot by a gang member.....

This game is basically the wild west with the Land grab that happening, you had good guys, bad guys, griefers and pkers.

The Game is open world PVP your choices are simple, you either move some where, where there are no griefers, you join a tribe, you hire body guards, learn to fight or run. There will be no server splits, no pve only zones, none of that crap. you already have a safe zone, heck some zones are protected by tribes you just need to be social.
Hmm but what if you were on that spot first, settled down, built up your camp, and 3 weeks later a PKer tribe sets up their camp beside you ? Then its not you who has set up your camp at the wrong spot.

About server split:
We will have one server at start.

We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment.

This is something Jordi said a year ago. I wouldn't be so sure that it won't happen. One server with 2 big zones would benefit everyone imo.

[Book]

Right but the issue is really that you parked your totem in a spot that some one else does not want you to be and then you decide "No, i picked this spot because i like the tree right over there, im not going to leave" so you refuse to move and you refuse to fight but then complain when getting killed because they wont leave you alone.

You can even be warned "hey if you setup camp here we are going to kill you every chance there is, please move" but no you want to stay and you want to get killed because you know if you go over here they will attack you.

This is like living in a inner city versus a suburb. you move some where that has gang violence and are warned "dont wear those colors because rival gangs wear them" but "no, im going to wear my pink polo shirt because i shouldn't have to listen to these terrorists" then you go walk over to the quickey mark and then get shot by a gang member.....

This game is basically the wild west with the Land grab that happening, you had good guys, bad guys, griefers and pkers.

The Game is open world PVP your choices are simple, you either move some where, where there are no griefers, you join a tribe, you hire body guards, learn to fight or run. There will be no server splits, no pve only zones, none of that crap. you already have a safe zone, heck some zones are protected by tribes you just need to be social.

I'm not encountering a problem :D

Are you saying that's what happened to the OP?

There are definitely cases where the griefing is not for any of the reasons you suggested but rather because the griefing player(s) simply enjoy ruining someone else's day. They generally will choose someone without the resources to defend themselves because the sense of empowerment they get is not something they can experience in real life. In fact, they often are the victims of bullying in real life, in some way, which is why they resort to regaining the sense of power they've lost in RL by picking on people online.

I've mentioned Jumpgate Classic elsewhere but that's a good example of the majority deciding to leave a game where a small minority had decided to impose constant griefing. As I said, it's unfortunate games need to be designed for the lowest common denominator, but what makes them the lowest common denominator is a general lack of empathy and inability to negotiate/understand-the-need-for a compromise. They want to kill, they will find a target they can easily bully around, and they will continue to do so.

Not saying you're one of them, I don't know you or your tribe :) Just saying it's those types of folks that create the problem to begin with and wind up scratching their heads when the majority has left.

[xyberviri]

yes the griefer pkers are basically culling the heard too much if you will.

every now and then yes go out and kill some one but i think you are all afraid of that one ass hole that seems to kill every one and there only purpose is to login and rinse and repeat for 8 hours strait. yes that guy is a ass hole.

now normal people dont do that they kill you once or twice then move on to another area.