Something positive

[Threndor]

So decided it is time for a positive word. If I look back and think about the days after the final wipe then today's game works like sunshine. Back then if I wanted to pick up a log I had to wait 5 minutes before it appeared on my back. Okay we still have server crashes but I'm pretty sure that will be resolved soon. Most people probably don't realise how much effort went into the last patch that solved the zone to zone lag. I am here to stay. :)

[Hanover]

Keep lowering that bar so we can perpetuate the cycle...:mad:

[Armand]

lol. Good show.

[d3m0nd0]

So decided it is time for a positive word. If I look back and think about the days after the final wipe then today's game works like sunshine. Back then if I wanted to pick up a log I had to wait 5 minutes before it appeared on my back. Okay we still have server crashes but I'm pretty sure that will be resolved soon. Most people probably don't realise how much effort went into the last patch that solved the zone to zone lag. I am here to stay. :)

Hmm, the something positive thread of this game consists of two lines of text......... Now someone list the negatives and compare!

[Hanover]

Hmm, the something positive thread of this game consists of two lines of text......... Now someone list the negatives and compare!

I wouldn't call it positive... Its like saying my new car doesn't stall as much as it did when I first got it.:rolleyes:

[Threndor]

Mr. Hanover when you bought your car the manufacturer told you that the engine still needed to be tuned. And now your car is running smoothly, you keep blaming the manufacturer. So much negativity here, get a reality check.

[d3m0nd0]

Of course theres alot of negativity, even you, king of positiveness, lord of the brightside, could only write 2 patheticly semi-positive lines about this game.

[Threndor]

I started this thread so people can write down the positive things they encounter in game. Just now I am doing some fishing and see the sun setting, the lake becomes green (I am close to the green mist). Today I learned a great deal about woodworking and right now I have to feed myself. Life is good.

[Hanover]

Mr. Hanover when you bought your car the manufacturer told you that the engine still needed to be tuned. And now your car is running smoothly, you keep blaming the manufacturer. So much negativity here, get a reality check.

So how is that worthy of note or praise? I think it's rather absurd applauding the game finally being in a playable state. (technically) Wasn't that to be expected?

[Threndor]

It was to be expected and now it is. So what's eating you?

[Hanover]

It was to be expected and now it is. So what's eating you?

BRB... I have to go congratulate my Mailman for actually putting the letters in my mailbox this time, rather than tossing them all over the yard.

[Threndor]

I sincerely thank the teachers that taught you so I can understand your English.

[Kinslayer]

A positive thread...

Last week there was one day they didnt shut the server down on me in the middle of trying to play, so we're down to 4 nights there.

How's that?

[Book]

A positive thread...

Last week there was one day they didnt shut the server down on me in the middle of trying to play, so we're down to 4 nights there.

How's that?

Not sure if you noticed this Kinslayer...

Quoted from Dezgard in the following thread : http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/1457-Xsyon-Main-Server-Status
"Come Monday maintenance will be staggered (More details will follow shortly)."

:D

I know, there's potential negative in the coming details but without concrete knowledge of those details, positive or negative is strictly a matter of choice.

[Hanover]

A positive thread...

Last week there was one day they didnt shut the server down on me in the middle of trying to play, so we're down to 4 nights there.

How's that?

Was it during the scheduled down times? If so, that would be a positive.;)

[TehNick]

I love how ppl are trying to destroy every single possitive piece of this game

[xyberviri]

its not this game its every MMO, the Forums are were people come to complain and vent, there the vocal minority that actually go and register, how ever in this game that was automatic, so they have a place to go troll and what not.

Tons of angry threads going way back to Feb 4th:
http://forum.play-earthrise.com/index.php?/forum/8-general-game-discussion/page__prune_day__100__sort_by__Z-A__sort_key__last_post__topicfilter__all__st__60
That game had a team of 60 or something making that game, it costed 78.00 USD(49.99 Euro) and had nothing to do but hunt animals/mobs to get resources to craft grind with to make more armor and weapons to gank off of other people that were out grinding mobs/animals to get more resources to craft grind with.
There is no city building, they just added territory warfair and you still need a SSD in order to get good frame rates, the game uses about 2.6GB of Ram so if your on a 32bit system your pretty much just going to be SoL. I think the forums had around 10 people posting by the end of feburary. Here the forums are allot more alive than that game, in fact i played 10 hours total in Earth Rise versus here i have already beaten that record several times over.


Face of Mankind had 1 person doing almost everything for about the past two years, there was no developers, it was this is 1 person working on the game period, some work was contracted out but for the most part that same person was the person that would ban you from the forums and anwser the support email, oh he was also the GM in the game.

Global Agenda went from P2P to Fremium to F2P

APB is back in beta testing after a failed launch and crash

There are plenty of other MMO's that are on life support and still going, there are a couple of failed launches like the earth rise one that just started.


So Yes continue with the "Blah Blah, this sucks that suck this game sucks, but yet some how i just can't leave the forums or irc channel and have to log in everyday to complain about how much i hate the game but yet some how have not left because of the reasons i have incoherently listed in my previous posts" threads beause again,

Forums = Vocal minority

Piss on the game all you want, there are plenty of other games that have just as many issues during the launch, there are plenty of reasons you all have listed why you should quit how ever most of you stay because you either like complaining on forums of games you no longer play or you still like playing the game in some way.

If you are going to stay at least post some useful feedback to fix all the stuff that makes you hate the game so much or just STFU its not like your posting anything we dont all aready know, your not Rosa Parks the community doesn't need you to stand up for things we all already know is broken.

Useful feedback:
This game is unplayable when i cross from zone 937 to 938 9/10 times i get a ping spike and then my client crashes.
When equiping the warped branch knife my client crashes when tring to skin a deer.
When using the Massacar preorder axe to cut down a tree my client crashes

unuseful feedback:
You Game F%$#!g sucks because its always crashing and i died because of lag....


Be angry all you like but dont come on the forums pissing all over the place because you are made X feature doesn't work properly.....
/flameon

[Jadzia]

Very well said, xyberviri.

[Kinslayer]

I was just being facetious. Positive or negative, I agree its time to lighten up a bit, and yes, myself included. I have just been very frustrated over having the server shut down on me every time I want to play, I doubt anyone else would be any less frustrated.

I am well aware of the staggering of the times for maintenance now, but I will reserve my judgment until the finer points are made public.

[orious13]

--- Legit words ---

That must be heard by all.

[alyvia]

Wow! *Applaud*

xyberviri, very well said!

[Hanover]

Very well said, xyberviri.

Its a lovely rant indeed, but seems rather random.

[mgilbrtsn]

lol, ppl don't wanna hear anything positive about the game. thousands of negative threads, and a very few positive threats and the negative ppl have to come and bring this one down. Let it be, some ppl are enjoying the game. I'll get into the spirit of the thread and list what I consider positive. I'll get flamed for it, cause i'm saying something I I I view as positive, but hey here goes.

I like the terraforming, I've been able to build some neat structures, hope they add more options so that I can build even neater ones.

I like the variety of crafted items. I've been in a few games where everyone looks the same. In Xsyon I see more ppl with different looks, that its fun to see what ppl are gonna cobble together

I like the fact that I believe the devs are actually trying to improve things and listening to the community. I've been in many indie games where I didn't feel that was the case.

I enjoy this community more than most. Usually you can discuss things without too much flaming or ppl being @##@$@# @#$#@@$# 5@$@$#. (whatever those symbols mean, I see them sometimes when ppl are trying to say bad stuff ;)

I enjoy the fact that I know (faith) that more features are upcoming and I'll be here when they first hit.

I enjoy the prospect of the economy beginning to develop as tribes set monetary systems and politics are already starting to happen.

I like that quests are player generated. They aren't used much at this time, but I like the capability.

thats all for now. Now if someone starts a thread on 'some negative things about Xsyon, I can add some stuff there also.

[Sirius]

The refund policy contributes greatly to the presence of people complaining on the forums.

The way the policy currently works, you can't refund your account unless you're really sure you will never want to play Xsyon, even months down the road when it might actually be working, because they delete your character if you refund.

Thus there really is no "Give me my money back and I will pay for the game when it is actually working" option. If you find the game worthless or unplayable as it stands now, you're either stuck waiting around in "Xsyon jail", so to speak, or you can take a freaking hike and never come back, as far as the devs are concerned.

This policy craps all over the players who invested tons of time based on the (advertised) expectation that the game was basically ready, playable, and stable, and that only small, short-term roadblocks remained. Those players invested time that they can never really get back, and it's frankly insulting for them to be told they have to PAY for the privilege of waiting around and seeing if this game ever gets off the ground.

[Kinslayer]

The refund policy contributes greatly to the presence of people complaining on the forums.

The way the policy currently works, you can't refund your account unless you're really sure you will never want to play Xsyon, even months down the road when it might actually be working, because they delete your character if you refund.

Thus there really is no "Give me my money back and I will pay for the game when it is actually working" option. If you find the game worthless or unplayable as it stands now, you're either stuck waiting around in "Xsyon jail", so to speak, or you can take a freaking hike and never come back, as far as the devs are concerned.

This policy craps all over the players who invested tons of time based on the (advertised) expectation that the game was basically ready, playable, and stable, and that only small, short-term roadblocks remained. Those players invested time that they can never really get back, and it's frankly insulting for them to be told they have to PAY for the privilege of waiting around and seeing if this game ever gets off the ground.What you are saying doesnt make a great deal of sense. You dont have to pay to wait around, you just cancel your sub.

Also, I would take another look at the "refund policy" if I were you. It is pretty clear that no refunds will be given and that the service that is Xsyon is purchased "AS IS", and that it is an ever changing world. Not sure where you got the rest of that stuff from. In fact, I'm not sure how people have managed to get a refund at all in the past having read that refund policy.

[Sirius]

What you are saying doesnt make a great deal of sense. You dont have to pay to wait around, you just cancel your sub.

Also, I would take another look at the "refund policy" if I were you. It is pretty clear that no refunds will be given and that the service that is Xsyon is purchased "AS IS", and that it is an ever changing world. Not sure where you got the rest of that stuff from. In fact, I'm not sure how people have managed to get a refund at all in the past having read that refund policy.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. My previous post already explained why it's not as simple as just "canceling your sub", but I will explain it again since you seem to have missed it.

You basically have three "choices":

1) Let them keep your money and wait around to see if the game ever becomes playable
2) Get your money back, and never come back because they delete your character if you leave
3) Get your money back, and if the game ever becomes worthwhile, come back and start all over from scratch, repeating the most mindless 100/200/300-hour grind you've ever experienced.

Needless to say, choice #3 isn't really a "choice".


Also, I would take another look at the "refund policy" if I were you. It is pretty clear that no refunds will be given and that the service that is Xsyon is purchased "AS IS", and that it is an ever changing world. Not sure where you got the rest of that stuff from. In fact, I'm not sure how people have managed to get a refund at all in the past having read that refund policy.

Refund policies and terms of service are not automatically legally enforceable. Just saying "we will not give out any refunds" does not mean they are allowed to refuse refunds. This is why hundreds of people have actually gotten refunds, and this is why credit card companies WILL do a chargeback if they refuse the refund. Your loopy fanboy reasoning is utterly meaningless in the real world, where money is involved.

The details about what happens when you actually get a refund were provided to me by the game's support staff. If you think no refunds are given then you're just willfully ignoring reality. FYI.

[Jadzia]

The refund policy contributes greatly to the presence of people complaining on the forums.

The way the policy currently works, you can't refund your account unless you're really sure you will never want to play Xsyon, even months down the road when it might actually be working, because they delete your character if you refund.

Thus there really is no "Give me my money back and I will pay for the game when it is actually working" option. If you find the game worthless or unplayable as it stands now, you're either stuck waiting around in "Xsyon jail", so to speak, or you can take a freaking hike and never come back, as far as the devs are concerned.

This policy craps all over the players who invested tons of time based on the (advertised) expectation that the game was basically ready, playable, and stable, and that only small, short-term roadblocks remained. Those players invested time that they can never really get back, and it's frankly insulting for them to be told they have to PAY for the privilege of waiting around and seeing if this game ever gets off the ground.
What you actually want is a free trial. Its clearly stated in the EULA that buying the game can't be used as a trial, they even say that by signing the EULA you agree that you have no right for asking for refund. Still they do give your money back, but you are still not happy. Lol.

[Sirius]

What a silly comment. The fact that I plunked down $40 back in February is all you need to know to see that I didn't ask for, and didn't expect, a free trial.

But since then, all I have heard is "the game is currently broken but we think it will be working tomorrow!" Tomorrow comes, and it's the same story: "Check back later and the game will be working!"

I know they didn't expect the server would basically be down/unplayavble for 6 weeks, or they wouldn't have released. But I didn't expect it either, or I wouldn't have paid any money and wouldn't have worked on leveling my character. But instead of being honest and realistic and telling people that the game was not going to work as advertised, they kept stringing everyone along. "It'll be fixed very soon! We just have a couple minor bugs to iron out." Nothing but apologies and empty promises.

So players kept investing their time, thinking that the light at the end of the tunnel would come soon. But it didn't. Now the game is dead and the devs are even farther from delivering the promised service, which is no longer even really "massively multiplayer".

So yeah, your attempt to paint players like me, who have been patiently waiting for the game to succeed, as jerks who are just trying to secure a free ride, is demonstrably wrong and utterly without class. If the game becomes playable, I'll pay the $40. Heck, if the game finally becomes stable and the playerbase returns, I might even pay for the time I spent leveling my character, even though it was supposed to be "free".

But I'll be damned if I am letting them keep my money for this empty, unplayable game, just because they threaten to delete my characters if I demand my money back until they can actually deliver the service. And I am by no means alone. Hence, if the devs want disgruntled customers to one day come back and become satisfied, paying customers, and if the players are sick of hearing from players who aren't interested in playing the crappy game but are allowed to post on the forums because they purchased accounts for $40, the devs should change their refund policy and stop deleting characters when they refund an account. It should be painfully obvious that the character deletion is a way of saying "you'd better not leave, and if you do, don't come back".

[orious13]

@ Sirius-> Just go make a negative thread.

@ Everyone...

People keep bickering about the same stuff every time. The people who like the game know what's wrong just as much as the people who don't (both sides have some people with no clue wth is going on). There are positive things as well as negative things. Don't force your dislike for Xsyon on people who already like it for whatever reason. Don't force your like for Xsyon on people who already don't like it for whatever reason.

By now there is no changing anyone's opinion.

[Book]

If they refund the $40, there's really no reason they should have to maintain the data on their servers. It's not meant to be a slap in the face, it's just reality... common sense really.

Perhaps some folks are Very Disappointed and just looking for a reason to argue? Life is short. Find something you enjoy (doesn't have to be Xsyon, cool if it is), and then go enjoy it. Fairly simple.

[Sirius]

Yeah, because storing the character data is really burdensome (what is it, about 1 megabyte, maybe two?). And why should they have to do anything for their customers, just because they repeatedly lied and misrepresented the status of the game? Players who were stupid enough to believe that BS deserved to have all their time wasted, rite?

I'm also sure it makes plenty of business sense to burn bridges whenever a customer asks for a refund. It would be stupid to try to give people any reason to come back to the game in the future if they get the bugs and gameplay issues ironed out. But it is very smart to make sure people have no reason to come back. Rite?

If they maintain the data on the servers, players who quit might actually come back. THAT is the point.

[LennyLeak]

Stuff about refunds.

I'm not claiming anything about your motives, but the way I see it, your trying to reverse a transaction while keeping part of the product.
It seems to me that the point in question is, that they delete your character if you refund. Like with other products, you refund because you regret buying the product at all. Therefor - to underline your regret - you usually give back the (remaining) product, and then get reimbursed. If you claim a refund, it seems imho only fair that they delete your character. I mean, you are somehow claiming that the game is so broken, that you did not recieve the promised enjoyment/utility from the product. Now, if you have leveled your character so much that you care about it getting deleted, I find it fair to presume that you must have gotten some kind of fun out of it. Enough to question the legitimacy of the refund imo.

BTT:
I still got more positive than negative to say about this game.
One thing that comes to mind is, that this game reminds me very much of an offline SP First Person game called "Stranded", that I used to enjoy playing and moding. In the game you were stranded on a desolate island, and had to survive by making tools and building shelter. You had to gather food and water, and you could farm the land. It was very primitive but I found it very entertaining. I really like how Xsyon makes me feel stranded (3.0). I like that I do not feel stressed to reach "the endgame". Rather I'm content trying to survive while fishing, building shelter etc. and exploring the vast areas around me.

EDIT:


If they maintain the data on the servers, players who quit might actually come back. THAT is the point.
Yeah, but you're not talking about quitting, you are talking about refunding. If you quit (i.e. stop paying) they will keep your character safe, right?

[Sirius]

Now, if you have leveled your character so much that you care about it getting deleted, I find it fair to presume that you must have gotten some kind of fun out of it. Enough to question the legitimacy of the refund imo.

This is where your argument falls flat and fails. I leveled my character because I was expecting to play the game as it was advertised – preparation for a supposedly fun gameplay experience that has yet to materialize, nearly 2 months after I made the purchase.

It was a miserable, lag-infested experience. (Does clicking a button and waiting up to 5 minutes for the server to start a 10-20 second countdown timer sound fun to you? Does it become more fun when you have to do it again, 10,000 more times?)

I put down my cash and put in the time and legwork to enjoy a product that still has yet to be delivered. I understand that they can't refund my time, so it only seems fair for them to let me keep my character progress if I ever decide to give this game a chance again. Furthermore, if they do let me keep my character progress, I have an even stronger incentive to come back. But if they delete the character, they delete most of the incentive for me to come back. And whose fault is it that it's come to this? No matter how you slice it, the fault lies with Notorious Games. So not only is it the right thing to do, but it would also help them quite a bit with customer retention. They need money, so this should be welcome advice.

[LennyLeak]

This is where your argument falls flat and fails.(...)

I dont disagree with everything you are saying. And seeing that the storage of the char is prolly not gonna strain the server (guessing) I will give you, that in some way they might as well keep the chars on storage and hope for people to come back. However, I still disagree with you on the issue of refunds. I do see your point, and I was making mere assumptions that you were enjoying leveling. However I am not sure what was advertized that you were not given? The game "just" launched, and to state the obvious, we are still in Prelude and waiting for the promised features to be implemented. I give you, that I have my doubts about that happening, but in my book that is the risk you take jumping into an MMORPG from the get go... I do feel that if you forced yourself to play a game that you did not enjoy, then it is somewhat on you. I'm not trying to make you out to be the bad guy, I just do not think that NG are displaying bad business ethics with that refund policy. But I am sorry to hear that you feel that you have waisted your time - and feeling lied to obviously does not help.

Regards,
Lenny

[Book]

Hey Sirius,

It seems I'm not bright enough to find the positive in the things you're saying. Surely you're not just hijacking the thread as an opportunity to vent, that's just my faulty perception.

Can you spell out the positive in a more obvious way?

Thanks.

[China]

Yeah, because storing the character data is really burdensome (what is it, about 1 megabyte, maybe two?). And why should they have to do anything for their customers, just because they repeatedly lied and misrepresented the status of the game? Players who were stupid enough to believe that BS deserved to have all their time wasted, rite?

I'm also sure it makes plenty of business sense to burn bridges whenever a customer asks for a refund. It would be stupid to try to give people any reason to come back to the game in the future if they get the bugs and gameplay issues ironed out. But it is very smart to make sure people have no reason to come back. Rite?

If they maintain the data on the servers, players who quit might actually come back. THAT is the point.

Oh please. You have had your say over and over and over ad nauseum. Go stomp your foot elsewhere. The dirt here is worn out. You bore me.

China

[Sirius]

However I am not sure what was advertized that you were not given? The game "just" launched, and to state the obvious, we are still in Prelude and waiting for the promised features to be implemented. I give you, that I have my doubts about that happening, but in my book that is the risk you take jumping into an MMORPG from the get go...

Being able to log in is not a "feature", nor is movement sync. The game simply is not working... and it "just" launched over a month ago. Additionally, the "Features" page is inexplicably mislabeled as a "Features" page rather than a "Planned Features" page.

Do you really think that I'm asking for a lot? That my character be saved in case I come back to the game? I sincerely doubt there is any technical reason whatsoever for this policy. It's just a strong-arm "sales tactic" -- they're hoping that people will keep their account, rather than seek a refund, just in case the game is one day playable and worth playing.

[LennyLeak]

Being able to log in is not a "feature", nor is movement sync. The game simply is not working... and it "just" launched over a month ago. Additionally, the "Features" page is inexplicably mislabeled as a "Features" page rather than a "Planned Features" page.

Do you really think that I'm asking for a lot? That my character be saved in case I come back to the game? I sincerely doubt there is any technical reason whatsoever for this policy. It's just a strong-arm "sales tactic" -- they're hoping that people will keep their account, rather than seek a refund, just in case the game is one day playable and worth playing.

Point taken. But I must assume that you are having more tech issues than me. I have had some issues, but not so severe that I would call it broken or "simply not working". In my experience this (server crashes and log offs) is to be expected of a fresh MMORPG. But again, I have not been at your computer playing, so I must assume you are getting it worse than me.
Also, I agree about the features page. It does actually give a distorted impression of the current game-state. I havent looked at it for a while though, so wont say for sure. But I do recognize the point. I still feel that it is a rather drastic step to demand a refund, and my experience with the game does not merit such a claim. That is not to say that yours does not. I'm just saying that there are other options, like: cancel you account, consider the money spend, and wait to see if the game deserves your money again one day. But in the end I guess it boils down to the fact that I do not feel ripped off, and therefor see demands for a refund as a bit excessive.

EDIT: Sorry for stearing further off topic. I guess I've said what I had to say about the subject, and hope that we can "agree to disagree".

[warmslumbers13]

lol, ppl don't wanna hear anything positive about the game. thousands of negative threads, and a very few positive threats and the negative ppl have to come and bring this one down. Let it be, some ppl are enjoying the game. I'll get into the spirit of the thread and list what I consider positive. I'll get flamed for it, cause i'm saying something I I I view as positive, but hey here goes.

I like the terraforming, I've been able to build some neat structures, hope they add more options so that I can build even neater ones.

I like the variety of crafted items. I've been in a few games where everyone looks the same. In Xsyon I see more ppl with different looks, that its fun to see what ppl are gonna cobble together

I like the fact that I believe the devs are actually trying to improve things and listening to the community. I've been in many indie games where I didn't feel that was the case.

I enjoy this community more than most. Usually you can discuss things without too much flaming or ppl being @##@$@# @#$#@@$# 5@$@$#. (whatever those symbols mean, I see them sometimes when ppl are trying to say bad stuff ;)

I enjoy the fact that I know (faith) that more features are upcoming and I'll be here when they first hit.

I enjoy the prospect of the economy beginning to develop as tribes set monetary systems and politics are already starting to happen.

I like that quests are player generated. They aren't used much at this time, but I like the capability.

thats all for now. Now if someone starts a thread on 'some negative things about Xsyon, I can add some stuff there also.

Agree, I like having new players still appear and helping them. I have two accounts and probly would get a third if more features open up in game

[ocoma]

We have had a number of our people get refunds and the devs have NOT deleted the characters. Its easy to test this cause deleted toons no longer appear on the tribal rooster and cause the tribal borders to shrink. Everyone of our people who have gotten refunds are still listed as tribe members and our border remains the same size.


Edit: I would guess this is for exactly the reasons you stated Sirius...the devs know the game was released to early. Those that bought the game once may be willing to come back when things get to where they should be and the devs dont seem to want to "burn any bridges" by simply deleting the toons and ensuring those that left never return.

[Sirius]

I'm glad to hear that Ocoma, and it makes sense that they would warn people that their characters will be deleted upon refund but then not actually do it.

Thanks.

[d3m0nd0]

lol, ppl don't wanna hear anything positive about the game. thousands of negative threads, and a very few positive threats and the negative ppl have to come and bring this one down. Let it be, some ppl are enjoying the game. I'll get into the spirit of the thread and list what I consider positive. I'll get flamed for it, cause i'm saying something I I I view as positive, but hey here goes.

I like the terraforming, I've been able to build some neat structures, hope they add more options so that I can build even neater ones.

I like the variety of crafted items. I've been in a few games where everyone looks the same. In Xsyon I see more ppl with different looks, that its fun to see what ppl are gonna cobble together

I like the fact that I believe the devs are actually trying to improve things and listening to the community. I've been in many indie games where I didn't feel that was the case.

I enjoy this community more than most. Usually you can discuss things without too much flaming or ppl being @##@$@# @#$#@@$# 5@$@$#. (whatever those symbols mean, I see them sometimes when ppl are trying to say bad stuff ;)

I enjoy the fact that I know (faith) that more features are upcoming and I'll be here when they first hit.

I enjoy the prospect of the economy beginning to develop as tribes set monetary systems and politics are already starting to happen.

I like that quests are player generated. They aren't used much at this time, but I like the capability.

thats all for now. Now if someone starts a thread on 'some negative things about Xsyon, I can add some stuff there also.

I can do all those things in Minecraft Davros brah :) And minecraft has more people playing it! lulz.

[datagoblin]

The refund policy contributes greatly to the presence of people complaining on the forums.

The way the policy currently works, you can't refund your account unless you're really sure you will never want to play Xsyon, even months down the road when it might actually be working, because they delete your character if you refund.

Thus there really is no "Give me my money back and I will pay for the game when it is actually working" option. If you find the game worthless or unplayable as it stands now, you're either stuck waiting around in "Xsyon jail", so to speak, or you can take a freaking hike and never come back, as far as the devs are concerned.

This policy craps all over the players who invested tons of time based on the (advertised) expectation that the game was basically ready, playable, and stable, and that only small, short-term roadblocks remained. Those players invested time that they can never really get back, and it's frankly insulting for them to be told they have to PAY for the privilege of waiting around and seeing if this game ever gets off the ground.

Your point is rife with inexplicable lack of understanding and logic. I am going to use a 'just bought a new car' analogy so hopefully it makes sense in deciphering what you are saying. So, you bought a new car, drove it all over the place and were happy to show it off to others. It got you where you were going, but along the way you hit some speedbumps, potholes and someone put a scratch in your new paint. So now the car isnt shiny anymore, yet it still drives you around and hopefully, down the road you can get some repairs fixed...But thats not good enough. You want a refund for the price of your car that you bought AND money back for the mileage as well? It doesnt work like that. When you ask for a refund, you get your money back, the company gets the car back. If you want to drive that car again in the future, you take the refund back to the dealer and get another one.

I dont see how anyone would pay you for your time 'invested'. If your time is so precious that you are investing it into a video game and that investment works out to some sort of real world loss of money, you dont need to play video games. Obviously your time is worth more than the rest of us that play video games at our leisure and for fun.

As for 'advertised expectation' of game play, you need to re-read the TOS. The game play is subject to change, your mileage may vary.

Stugots

[xyberviri]

I'm glad to hear that Ocoma, and it makes sense that they would warn people that their characters will be deleted upon refund but then not actually do it.

Thanks.

Actually Every MMO out there uses the "We reserve the right to delete your character at our discretion" clause in all ToS to protect against accidental deletion as well. Same with inactive/canceled accounts. but i have yet to find one mmo that has ever actually deleted any player characters stored in the dbase.

How ever, if you quit and ask for money i really do think you hold no ownership of that character anymore since you basically played the game and then decided you didn't want this product anymore so your returning it to the store. If your a fence sitter then you should just keep it installed and wait a couple of months.

[mgilbrtsn]

I can do all those things in Minecraft Davros brah :) And minecraft has more people playing it! lulz.

I'm just trying to say the things that I think are positive in the game. There are many elements that can be played in many other games. I could say that I don't like WoW because I can kill things in WAR... or I don't like WAR because I can kill things in Everquest... or I don't like Everquest because I can kill things in UO.... etc. None of these games have a monopoly on gameplay as far as I can tell. Instead, its how the elements are implemented that make it fun or not fun. In this case I am discussing the positive elements I see in this game so far. As I said in my original post, I can talk about the negatives as well as the positives in this game as well as any other game (minus those I haven't played).

Is minecraft any good? I've heard alot of ppl talk about it.

[Sirius]

Your point is rife with inexplicable lack of understanding and logic.

How you were able to write that and then post the drivel that followed is beyond me. The "analogy" is utterly false. It's a car that never started. It never got me anywhere, although I sunk a bunch of time into it expecting it would run when that critical part arrived in the mail. And I'm clearly not asking for compensation for damage that occurred after I bought the car, but rather flaws existing at the time of sale which the seller made efforts to hide. The rest of the analogy is just utter failure and can't even be properly expressed with the car metaphor because the character data is not something that is of use to anyone else, can't be resold, is of no value to anyone other than me and Notorious Games (it's valuable to them because it gives them leverage over a single customer --me--to possibly make a future sale of service). I'm not "giving" them anything back if I get a refund for a service not conforming to the sale agreement.

The comments on my time investment and "real world loss of money", which I never mentioned or even hinted at, are utterly irrelevant and their presence in your comment can only be explained by logic failure on your own part. I'm not asking for compensation for the time in any way – only that the product of the investment not be gratuitously deleted when the company whose own questionable sales practices put me in this position, who would suffer no appreciable loss by preserving the data which could potentially make the game worth coming back to and paying for if it is ever fixed, go ahead and do so, and save that couple megs of data so I can come back later if I want without some stupid repeat of the painful grind.

How you can liken this simple request not to delete my character to actually demanding money back, with a straight face, is absolutely incredible.

Finally, your instruction that I just "read the TOS" simply shows ignorance of the law. Customers are not automatically bound by TOS included with products and services they buy, case law prevents the enforcement of unreasonable terms, and thus attempting to enforce questionable provisions presents a litigation hazard that is cheaper to avoid than to defend against. And that's all without the protection which a credit card company provides its own customers; I'm sure if a Visa customer is asking for a chargeback against a company, perhaps 30% or more of whose customer base have also demanded chargebacks, they're not going to question the customer. The consequences of a chargeback are doubtless much worse to the vendor (Notorious) than the consequences of issuing a refund, which is the only way NG can avoid the credit co., with whom they need a credit merchant account in order to accept payments via CC, from seeing the chargeback requests and seeing what is up when customers are demanding their money back.

So, yeah. Invent crazy BS more.


Actually Every MMO out there uses the "We reserve the right to delete your character at our discretion" clause in all ToS to protect against accidental deletion as well. Same with inactive/canceled accounts. but i have yet to find one mmo that has ever actually deleted any player characters stored in the dbase.

How ever, if you quit and ask for money i really do think you hold no ownership of that character anymore since you basically played the game and then decided you didn't want this product anymore so your returning it to the store. If your a fence sitter then you should just keep it installed and wait a couple of months.

Hi, I'm not claiming ownership of the character data. And I'm a fence sitter who's not paying until the game turns out to work. I never signed on to the alpha-stage early adopter thing.

[Dubanka]

in most other games, character data of expired subscriptions is not deleted...They don't delete it, because usually they'll do 'win back' promo's to try to suck you back in at regularly intervals, and you usually don't win someone back by telling them they have to start over again.

the character data deletion w/ quit, actually really has nothing to do with the craptacular release...even if the game was running flawlessly...and lets say i get shipped out to afghanistan, for what turns out to be a year...i'm prob not going to maintain that subscription. The odds of me resubbing when i got back would be pretty good upon return, if i knew my account was still intact...odds of me resubbing if I had to start over? II might, but i might also spend more time looking at what else is out there.

Summary: It's basic marketing. Don't piss off your customer base. If they do stop being customers, have a plan to get them back to being customers. I'm not sure whats with all the drama in this thread...this is pretty basic, industry standard stuff.

[xyberviri]

Hi, I'm not claiming ownership of the character data. And I'm a fence sitter who's not paying until the game turns out to work. I never signed on to the alpha-stage early adopter thing.

If your a fence sitter then you keep your account and decide to re sub when it becomes up to par with what you were expecting. if you not claiming ownership to the character data then ask for your refund and get one then when it becomes up to par you re buy the game again?


You probably would like to play the game when it works the way you though it was going to work, if that's the case you already paid the 40.00 a month ago, just wait until later when some one posts everything that you wanted to be fixed and resub then.

[Sirius]

I prefer to hang on to my own money until I want to purchase something rather than give the merchant money in advance.

[Jadzia]

in most other games, character data of expired subscriptions is not deleted...They don't delete it, because usually they'll do 'win back' promo's to try to suck you back in at regularly intervals, and you usually don't win someone back by telling them they have to start over again.

the character data deletion w/ quit, actually really has nothing to do with the craptacular release...even if the game was running flawlessly...and lets say i get shipped out to afghanistan, for what turns out to be a year...i'm prob not going to maintain that subscription. The odds of me resubbing when i got back would be pretty good upon return, if i knew my account was still intact...odds of me resubbing if I had to start over? II might, but i might also spend more time looking at what else is out there.

Summary: It's basic marketing. Don't piss off your customer base. If they do stop being customers, have a plan to get them back to being customers. I'm not sure whats with all the drama in this thread...this is pretty basic, industry standard stuff.
But Sirius doesn't talk about not paying subscription, he is talking about asking refund for the whole game. Thats different.

I have never asked for refund, but anyone who did...what is other games' policy about character data when a player asks for refund ?

[Sirius]

The whole point of his post was that whether it's the one situation or the other, keeping the characters intact is what makes the most sense for both increased sales and customer relations.

[Book]

in most other games, character data of expired subscriptions is not deleted...They don't delete it, because usually they'll do 'win back' promo's to try to suck you back in at regularly intervals, and you usually don't win someone back by telling them they have to start over again.

the character data deletion w/ quit, actually really has nothing to do with the craptacular release...even if the game was running flawlessly...and lets say i get shipped out to afghanistan, for what turns out to be a year...i'm prob not going to maintain that subscription. The odds of me resubbing when i got back would be pretty good upon return, if i knew my account was still intact...odds of me resubbing if I had to start over? II might, but i might also spend more time looking at what else is out there.

Summary: It's basic marketing. Don't piss off your customer base. If they do stop being customers, have a plan to get them back to being customers. I'm not sure whats with all the drama in this thread...this is pretty basic, industry standard stuff.

It's true, I've haven't encountered too many games where data gets deleted... but most of the time it's from someone cancelling the sub and moving on. I haven't heard of all that many outright refunds of all charges and don't know how other games handle that. I suppose if I go to Best Buy, get a copy of WoW, install, create, then return to Best Buy... I get my initial investment back without having Blizzard delete the data from the account I had created... I *think* that's how that would work, if they even take back open software... not sure.

However, I do get the feeling some customers are sometimes pissed off beyond possibility for reconciliation. Upon learning the data is in fact not deleted, they're still pissed off. Not saying they're wrong to be pissed, certainly their prerogative, but I'm not convinced much can really be done to win those customers back. There comes a point when one may have to let a customer go, and hope they do eventually move on rather than insisting on pissing everyone else off with them in a rather vindictive business practice.

Far as the drama, I agree, I don't really understand why some people have to meet any disagreeing point of view with such vehement vitriol. I don't think such continued stress can be very good for them in the long run.