Destruction should be limited to Tribal Lands

[mmogaddict]

The ability to destroy items should be limited to tribal lands. That is, the actual destruction of property.

Trees should still be able to be cut down, roads can still be paved (yes, including junkpiles though that is a dicky move).

Logs can still be processed via woodworking outside of tribal lands.

Logs and Stumps however cannot simply be destroyed unless on tribal lands.

Items cannot be dropped/destroyed except on tribal lands (at least until the creation of junk piles is enabled)

You make it, cut it, work it, process it, scav it, fish it - you take it with you or you leave it in containers.

The current containers should be lootable outside tribal land.

High level either basketry or architecture can be used to make higher level storage devices (need new recipies) that are locakable but cannot contain as much as storage bins (10 slots for example). They should also be heavy (around 25%~50% enc) to prevent people from carrying too many and certainly from carrying them into combat.

Just my 2 bottlecaps worth.

[Plague]

Agreed on destruction.

I would also add that buildings and walls someone build and left the area should also stand. Imagine someone investing a lot of time building a bridge that is nicely planned and created and some dick walks by and just destroys it is since he has a small epeen. At leats that moron should be required to drop a totem.

[warmslumbers13]

I agree with this new motion.. It would make people with small e-peens have to try harder to rage about people that are having more fun then them in game. If people want to destroy trees outside their area for the sole purpose of trying to grief other players then they will have drag a new totem around every six hours. Most people would quickly tire having to wait six hours to do a single task.

[mmogaddict]

Or if they do want to have a resource war, they have to drag the stuff back to camp and/or make stuff out of it to drag back (which currently is rather easy due to the enc bug, but eventually that will be fixed) or leave the stuff behind for people to salvage/haul back etc.

It means that a resource war isn't just 1 guy logging in offpeak deforesting an entire zone in a couple of hours.

[dezgard]

Must admit i like the basic idea.

[Malivius]

Must admit i like the basic idea.

Indeed! Go with it! (or at least a variation of it). I find it amusing that we can't delete rocks (which are useless) outside of our tribal areas, but we can deforest entire zones if we want.

[KeithStone]

i agree that trees/logs should not be able to be destroyed - however unless they add decay to structures they don't need to be blocked.

only bridges when they are added to the game should be blocked for destroying them unless they are inside a totem range.

[Dubanka]

I can agree that you shouldnt be able to destroy stumps...but not being able to destroy logs, but being able to craft them, is really a question of semantics. And again, this whole deforestation thing wouldn't be that big ofa deal if the supposed existing systems actually worked. Trees are supposed to regrow. They don't. or at least havent. Instead of arbitrary 'protection' mechanisms, how about just making the designed systems work? and put the reforestation in the hands of the players.

and the no-drop thing would be kind of ridiculous...talk about making players PK bait...so i'm out scavenging, i'm not heavily encumbered, maybe 40%...i see a char approaching me in a not friendly way. Currently, i'd drop my pack (not to save my stuff, because i'm wearing it...but because it's heavy), and move to engage. If players were unable to drop items, there is no way to shed load before fighting which puts that toon at a massive disadvantage...as compared to the pk toon who is coming expressly to fight. You mention containers being lootable and all (which would be good), but if you can't drop anything, how do you put the container on the ground?

In general...adding mechanisms to compensate for existing mechanisms not working correctly is typically a bad thing.

[Nafiti]

I agree with the trees/stumps. Stumps should not be destroyable outside tribal territory.

[jokhul]

I fully support the OP's ideas :D

It's a bit silly to have a game which is supposedly about "rebuilding the world", when at the same time it is possible to wantonly destroy large parts of it. Especially if much of this destruction has as it's motivation the simple justification of "because I can". Destruction is always easier than building, and especially so in MMO's. It would be a breath of fresh air to actually have a set of rules that would balance things out a bit more.

In MO a favourite tactic of PK'ers was to kill miners and loggers and then take all their materials.... and delete it on the spot. The killer didn't want the loot and it encumbered him, but he did want to cause as much damage as possible to his victim.

[Malivius]

I can agree that you shouldnt be able to destroy stumps...but not being able to destroy logs, but being able to craft them, is really a question of semantics. And again, this whole deforestation thing wouldn't be that big ofa deal if the supposed existing systems actually worked. Trees are supposed to regrow. They don't. or at least havent. Instead of arbitrary 'protection' mechanisms, how about just making the designed systems work? and put the reforestation in the hands of the players.

and the no-drop thing would be kind of ridiculous...talk about making players PK bait...so i'm out scavenging, i'm not heavily encumbered, maybe 40%...i see a char approaching me in a not friendly way. Currently, i'd drop my pack (not to save my stuff, because i'm wearing it...but because it's heavy), and move to engage. If players were unable to drop items, there is no way to shed load before fighting which puts that toon at a massive disadvantage...as compared to the pk toon who is coming expressly to fight. You mention containers being lootable and all (which would be good), but if you can't drop anything, how do you put the container on the ground?

In general...adding mechanisms to compensate for existing mechanisms not working correctly is typically a bad thing.

Concerning the bold sections, it's more than semantics. There is some difference in requiring said individual to carry their tools (to craft from the logs) with them, craft the items, and then decide whether to keep or throw away the pieces and that same individual systematically deleting hundreds of logs in such a short amount of time. In a game that focuses a lot on realism, I would expect, at the least, the destruction of an entire tree worth of logs to take a significant amount of time.

I do agree that when all of the systems are working, this may (based on regrowth times and the persistence of griefers) not be an issue. In the spirit of remaining consistent in the game-world, I refer back to my earlier statement...there is apparently some otherworldly force keeping me from destroying rocks that are not in my tribal area (though they serve no function in the game), but I'm free to destroy a usable resource until my heart's content!

I do support the idea that an individual should only be able to destroy logs on their own tribal area. It takes nothing away from the game except the griefing behavior which is so prevalent at the moment.

[xyberviri]

Concerning the bold sections, it's more than semantics. There is some difference in requiring said individual to carry their tools (to craft from the logs) with them, craft the items, and then decide whether to keep or throw away the pieces and that same individual systematically deleting hundreds of logs in such a short amount of time. In a game that focuses a lot on realism, I would expect, at the least, the destruction of an entire tree worth of logs to take a significant amount of time.

I do agree that when all of the systems are working, this may (based on regrowth times and the persistence of griefers) not be an issue. In the spirit of remaining consistent in the game-world, I refer back to my earlier statement...there is apparently some otherworldly force keeping me from destroying rocks that are not in my tribal area (though they serve no function in the game), but I'm free to destroy a usable resource until my heart's content!

I do support the idea that an individual should only be able to destroy logs on their own tribal area. It takes nothing away from the game except the griefing behavior which is so prevalent at the moment.

specifically for resources: having to haul them back to tribe land to destroy is a acceptable mechanic that would slow or discourage griefing in some respect.

how ever im not seeing issues with trees being cut down and destroyed, im seeing issues with just trees being cut down period.

There should be a timer that is like 4-5 minutes before you can cut down another tree unless you process a tree into logs. in which case it would drop to something like 1 minute

[mmogaddict]

Currently, i'd drop my pack (not to save my stuff, because i'm wearing it...but because it's heavy), and move to engage. If players were unable to drop items, there is no way to shed load before fighting which puts that toon at a massive disadvantage...as compared to the pk toon who is coming expressly to fight. You mention containers being lootable and all (which would be good), but if you can't drop anything, how do you put the container on the ground?

Obviously containers can still be dropped, as can logs and bundles, you just can't drop items to destroy them, I.E dropping tools or processed goods to the ground to destroy them.

This means if your out scavaging you can drop your basket (which can be opened unless it was one of the new lockable ones - which are both limited in size and heavy) and fight. If you win pickup your shit and go on your merry way, or die and risk the attacker taking it.

The added benefit of this is it will help stop macroing crafting (though a little late for that).

[Haphazard]

So, you gather some metal looking for some screws, and all you get is large metal plates, and the suggested mechanic is you have to drag them to your totem to delete?

Ugh.

Just increase the stamina requirement for destroying stuff, and the problem will be solved. if it took a full stam bar to destroy a tree, that will pretty much get rid of the "griefing" issue, without inconveniencing the small number of people who are legitimately destroying one.

I think its a very slick mechanic if the trash piles do regenerate from the stuff which is tossed - lets get that implemented.

[mrcalhou]

It's not griefing. It's just way too easy to do it. They need to greatly increase the time it takes to cut trees down and destroy stumps.

[NorCalGooey]

I can agree that you shouldnt be able to destroy stumps...but not being able to destroy logs, but being able to craft them, is really a question of semantics. And again, this whole deforestation thing wouldn't be that big ofa deal if the supposed existing systems actually worked. Trees are supposed to regrow. They don't. or at least havent. Instead of arbitrary 'protection' mechanisms, how about just making the designed systems work? and put the reforestation in the hands of the players.

and the no-drop thing would be kind of ridiculous...talk about making players PK bait...so i'm out scavenging, i'm not heavily encumbered, maybe 40%...i see a char approaching me in a not friendly way. Currently, i'd drop my pack (not to save my stuff, because i'm wearing it...but because it's heavy), and move to engage. If players were unable to drop items, there is no way to shed load before fighting which puts that toon at a massive disadvantage...as compared to the pk toon who is coming expressly to fight. You mention containers being lootable and all (which would be good), but if you can't drop anything, how do you put the container on the ground?

In general...adding mechanisms to compensate for existing mechanisms not working correctly is typically a bad thing.

Realistically how fast do 50-100 foot trees regrow (actually they don't regrow, but how fast do they grow?)

I can't see it working realistically. I'd say a 3 month timer on trees respawning is realistic enough for game play to not be ruined by it. Even though 3 month x 8 only puts it on a 2 year regrowth timer when it takes decades for trees to get that tall.

[Malivius]

Realistically how fast do 50-100 foot trees regrow (actually they don't regrow, but how fast do they grow?)

I can't see it working realistically. I'd say a 3 month timer on trees respawning is realistic enough for game play to not be ruined by it. Even though 3 month x 8 only puts it on a 2 year regrowth timer when it takes decades for trees to get that tall.

I think that would work, except that we'd have to start the cycle over with fresh forests and a change to the mechanics (no more deleting logs for fun, increased stamina/time factor to deforest, etc) to keep so much of the world from being empty again in a very short amount of time...

[NorCalGooey]

specifically for resources: having to haul them back to tribe land to destroy is a acceptable mechanic that would slow or discourage griefing in some respect.

how ever im not seeing issues with trees being cut down and destroyed, im seeing issues with just trees being cut down period.

There should be a timer that is like 4-5 minutes before you can cut down another tree unless you process a tree into logs. in which case it would drop to something like 1 minute

Great idea! I think 10 minutes until you can cut down would another would be better. After all, cutting down a tree manually is a lot of swings and very tiring.

It would take 10 tribe members to do 1 tree per minute. Would not be so bad then.

Combine your idea with the OPs...genius

[Dubanka]

Realistically how fast do 50-100 foot trees regrow (actually they don't regrow, but how fast do they grow?)

I can't see it working realistically. I'd say a 3 month timer on trees respawning is realistic enough for game play to not be ruined by it. Even though 3 month x 8 only puts it on a 2 year regrowth timer when it takes decades for trees to get that tall.

realistically, how many times can you get hit with an axe?
realistically how much dirt can you remove with a shovel?
realistically how long does it take to make a road (with only a shovel)?
realistically how long does it take to chop down a tree, then chop that tree into small logs?

It's a game. Grounding in realism is GREAT. However, at some point there need to be mechanics that facilitate enjoyable gameplay and not 'reality'.

I think haps solution would be very effective and the easiest to implement to deter the stump grinding. Instead of making new, potentially abuseable, mechanics (there is always and exploit somewhere with a new mechanic, or at the very least an unintended consequence), just make stump deletion take a full bar of stam. You slow down the process, and make the stump killer extremely vulnerable to attack. Someone killing your stumps? Hide, wait for him to destroy one, then swoop down and pummelate him while he's completely unable to defend himself (from lackk of stam).

[Sirius]

I made a similar suggestion a while back, except I was talking about stumps, not logs, and the only other difference was that the destruction timer would also be set to a minute or 2 minutes or something long to help ensure that people only destroy things they really want to destroy.

The no-drop idea is just crazy bad.

[Dubanka]

yeah a log would take a half bar of stam, stump full bar...makes clear cutting a risky and lengthy endeavor.