What is xsyon?

[PrinceReaper]

Well, I kinda knew how xsyon was going to turn out, I said it from day 1 I bought this game, crafting is not going to keep people busy and restricting players in what they can and can not do is killing the fun. The game is meant to focus on the player vs player aspect, in terms of player controlling lands, resources and whatever, but what we have here is sims online with a tribal theme in hardcore mode.

I lol'ed at people who said crafting will keep them busy for 6 months? you finding it fun still?..that pointless grind, with the only reasoning behind it, is to get better at it, but for what purpose does it serve? why would you need it?

the game should have not released if it was not going to focus on pvp for six months (or that's what the developers or the majority say) I don't believe it till i see it, and also looking at the track record of the promises, it not looking good in my eyes.

Its like, once that buzz is gone, then what? if there is no motive driving you then what will you do? xsyon is a game that could be great but bad implementation holds it back.

1. its a game that is meant to be pvp focused, so where the hell is that pvp? you don't release a game attracting pvpers then let them find out its not going to have any sort of tribal warfare for six whole months lol.

like really, I had fun watching the development of this game, I even bought it even doe I knew where it was heading, I just wanted to dream that it pull though, i guess sometimes you never learn right but to be truthful I wasn't expecting much when I bought it (kinda a past experience with niche games :P)

xsyon is like a softcore porn, it got safe zones...another major killer, and not to mention the developer saying that safe zones are optional after six months....right, seriously? lol who in their right mind is going to say no to a safe zone?

I have a question for the community of xsyon...what is xsyon?

some say its a sandbox, I say it has sandbox elements, but its no true sandbox in my opinion.

is it a pvp game? wheres the pvp?

is it a pve game? wheres the pve?

is it a survival simulation game?

also last note, the world sure doesn't look like it went though a major event that wiped out most of humanity! ...what was it a robot invasion that kicked off because the robots felt that they needed to protect the forests from humans cutting them down.

anyway Hope you guys enjoy cutting down forests for the next six months and just randomly grieving each other out of safe zones for no apparent reason with the spam known as combat.

one more thing that makes this game unpleasant for me is the fact that the area of your tribe is decided by numbers, like not even wealth or power, but by numbers lol.

like maybe you could extend your land by building forts, which have a radius of control....

I guess that little plot of land we all get is going to keep us busy for six months.....

so yeah I pretty much given up on xsyon now and I am ready for "this game is not for you" ....yeah thats why your community is so small now and also I hate all the people who support putting restrictions in the game, your the ones killing it.

[dezgard]

Love and let love that's what i say :P

World has too many armchair blogger we need more heroes :P

Maybe we will see you again in 6+ months.

No hate to you buddy :P

[PrinceReaper]

fix game and make it more friendly to people who like other play styles other then chopping down trees and sorting though scrap piles as its main feature and you have a extra sub.

Just make sure to have a free trial in six months time so I can test the siege mechanic and war system.

build a empire, conquer your enemies and expand, I like to do that but xsyon won't even let you expand ;( so I am left with sitting in a little ditch for six months, building a sand castle.

[dezgard]

I wish NASA would hurry up and make spaceships so i can see mars.....:P

It takes time my friend..i think virgin is beating nasa on that front though.

[PrinceReaper]

well lets just hope my little investment pays off then....until then, see you in six months or when you guys get this game in working order, and im talking about existing features, not the ones coming.

[Aethaeryn]

fix game and make it more friendly to people who like other play styles other then chopping down trees and sorting though scrap piles as its main feature and you have a extra sub.

Just make sure to have a free trial in six months time so I can test the siege mechanic and war system.

build a empire, conquer your enemies and expand, I like to do that but xsyon won't even let you expand ;( so I am left with sitting in a little ditch for six months, building a sand castle.

I am willing to bet you will be playing MO. . where the expansion is delayed . . think of what was added there in the year since release. One has good building with tribe areas only as safe zones. . the other has some territory control with most towns as safe zones and well no real territory control. Slight differences but I am guessing you will bounce back and forth (as I am likely to do) until game C comes out. . whoever gets it done first wins really. You are one of those people who think the focus of the game was PvP though and that was the mistake. PvP is a feature on a list of many. The problem is that that aspect has to work correctly (gates etc.) for that feature to make the rest useful and interesting.

You can't just turn on PvP with no safe zones etc. without something in place if, as you say, you want to add a play style for people to enjoy. . .that way you are taking another playstyle away from others, the Build-a-Bear crowd . .which is at this point the only group likely to resub with the given content.

Sadly as mentioned. . you will have to wait. . how long do devs expect people to wait though? First one out of the game wins. . . and will get popular and will start to soften as it grows and the profits come in. . man. . join the bitter and jaded club with the rest of us!

There is only one solution (http://www.sca.org/) .. wonder if they have safe zones. . .

[Hanover]

blah blah blah

Go back to MO

[Azhog]

It is pretty frustrating to be playing an Alpha (and yes, this IS an Alpha. Beta implies that the software is feature complete (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta))! Those of us who were willing to shell out $40 this early should get free accounts until such a time that the game is more complete.

Snide comments from the 'Head Test Developer' certainly aren't good for PR either!

[unzubaru]

It is pretty frustrating to be playing an Alpha (and yes, this IS an Alpha. Beta implies that the software is feature complete (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta))! Those of us who were willing to shell out $40 this early should get free accounts until such a time that the game is more complete.

Snide comments from the 'Head Test Developer' certainly aren't good for PR either!

And I expect that you think developers are sub-human and require no sustenance.

[dezgard]

Snide comments from the 'Head Test Developer' certainly aren't good for PR either!

Was just a little fun nothing 'Snide' intended.

(runs to the corner and cries)

[Hanover]

It is pretty frustrating to be playing an Alpha (and yes, this IS an Alpha. Beta implies that the software is feature complete (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta))! Those of us who were willing to shell out $40 this early should get free accounts until such a time that the game is more complete.

Snide comments from the 'Head Test Developer' certainly aren't good for PR either!

I applaud dezgards remarks...

FYI...PrinceReaper is fully vested in Starvault(aka MO)

[Jadzia]

@PrinceReaper:

what we have here is sims online with a tribal theme in hardcore mode.
This sounds really good.

I still enjoy the game a lot. Crafting and buildings is fun, but we need a working economy to give it purpose. PvP is pointless without economy too, so what we needs is item decay, item quality and rare stuffs.

The game was never meant to be PvP focused. Slap your friends who fooled you with that.

I'd like to ask that why did you buy the game on the first place. You knew it would have safe zones for more than 6 months, you knew that tribal warfare and sieges wouldn't be implemented anytime soon, it was clearly stated by the devs.

If that are the features you are interested in then why did you buy it ? To suffer and complain for minimum 6-9 months, but probably much more ? ( they didn't say tribal warfare will be implemented in 6 months. They said it will be implemented after Prelude, which will last 6-9 months minimum. And after Prelude can mean anything, even 2 years from now. I'm not saying it will take that much time, only pointing out the correct semantic.)

[Azhog]

And I expect that you think developers are sub-human and require no sustenance.

That's an inane comment. The guys who stand on the street corners with cardboard signs need sustenance also, but you don't see me handing them $40.


Notorious Games is a company, not a charity case. They get paid for providing a service. If they want more than a literal handful of players to pay them $15 a month, then they need something more robust and interesting than a fancy ditch digging simulator. I doubt that's going to happen within the next month, so when that 2nd free month expires, the number of active accounts will plummet, resulting in Empty Game Syndrome. To try and avoid this fate, I suggested that they do whatever they can to keep their already small playerbase, which at this point in development, requires letting their customers continue to play without an additional monetary burden. At least that's my opinion on the matter.


EDIT: I just looked at my account status and it says I'm good until 6/1/2011, which is nice, but contradicts what the order page says. Glad to know that I'm getting more for my money than I expected, but they should really update their webpage to avoid this sort of confusion.

[dezgard]

Quote Originally Posted by unzubaru View Post
And I expect that you think developers are sub-human and require no sustenance.

We got classed as sub-human...yeah upgrade.

[Dubanka]

Snide comments from the 'Head Test Developer' certainly aren't good for PR either!

I disagree 100%.

'Snide comments' in a thread mean that the devs are actually reading the forums which is a huge positive. Obviously they typically wont give real or concrete information regarding 'stuff'...other than occasional clarification...but forum feedback means they are actually reading the community chatter, which is a very good thing

[dezgard]

Why thank you i do try to keep up with chatter as much as i can and also interact when i can too.

[LennyLeak]

... forum feedback means they are actually reading the community chatter, which is a very good thing

I totally agree. I have played very few games, where devs would actually reply to regular threads on the forum. People shouldnt discourage that... As for the "snide", you have to have a pretty negative view to interpret what dezgard was saying as 'snide' imo. Like Dubanka I view it as very positive indeed, and an indication that the devs care. Please do keep on posting on the forums - that makes good PR in my book.

[Jadzia]

dezgard, since you read this thread I'd like to ask something here...Jordi said that new lands will be opened up in April. Is this still in plan ?

[dezgard]

I'm in IRC almost 24/7 hehe I'll be happy to answer any questions.

[Jadzia]

I'm in IRC almost 24/7 hehe I'll be happy to answer any questions.

IRC usually doesn't work for me correctly, it lags big time, just like now. And if you answer here all of us will know it not only me :)

[Sirius]

Please don't add a single additional feature until you fix melee sync :P

[Sirius]

I LOL'd (then cried) at "no pvp for 6 months".

[Jadzia]

Just let it go, Jadzia. No one — except perhaps a few delusional freaks you've brainwashed — likes the game in its current state. There's nothing there. Simple item decay and rare items isn't going to fix it, either.

You keep falling back on: "WELL WHY DID YOU BUY THE GAME? YOU KNEW THERE WAS GOING TO BE NO PVP FOR SIX MONTHS!!!!!"

That isn't an excuse for the shitty state in which the game was released. There needs to be a PURPOSE to doing things. And right now it's not even close to a rewarding gaming experience for the players. Simply put — the game is boring.

Hey Illamculate, nice to see you again. I almost (ALMOST) missed your kind trolling self. I know you don't enjoy the game. But no matter how hard you try to push it on others, there are players (including me) who do enjoy it.

And my question is very valid. I do wonder why did he buy the game. I'd never buy a game which lacks the features I'm interested in.
We all know that crafting and PvP need purpose. Thats why I said : but we need a working economy to give it purpose. PvP is pointless without economy too, so what we needs is item decay, item quality and rare stuffs.

[Soulwanderer]

The game was never meant to be PvP focused. Slap your friends who fooled you with that.


This game is so PvP based that it's unbelievable they haven't actually implemented a fun PvP system yet.

1) You loot resources to craft.

2) You craft:
a. Storage
b. Tools to craft with
c. Cosmetics (a few, like campfires, clothes, buildings, etc)
d. Armor
e. Weapons

Evereything up there revolves around Armor and Weapons save for the cosmetics.

3) You build up your city with walls to protect it... from PvPers.

4) You PvP to control territory and what are supposed to be limited resources.


That's the cycle. Harvest resources to craft, craft to prepare for PvP, PvP to protect resources. Without fun and important player vs player conflicts there is no point to the rest of the cycle, which sounds curiously like where we're at right now. The player made quests fit in with any of those stages, adding to the cycle. The only other option the game would have would be to go sim cityesque, and there are no where near enough sim customizable options to believe that's a route they're heading.

This game was always designed to be PvP focused. Slap your friends who fooled you with that. ;)

[Jadzia]

Read this again and you might begin to understand why a massive chunk of the population originally interested in this game are getting out of here.

Perhaps you should read it again. Why did they buy it if it was lacking the features they were interested in ? I don't mean buying it then complaining about missing features which has never been promised for Prelude.

[Sirius]

And my question is very valid. I do wonder why did he buy the game. I'd never buy a game which lacks the features I'm interested in.

Sure you would – if it had those features prominently listed on its "Features" page. <3

[Jadzia]

This game is so PvP based that it's unbelievable they haven't actually implemented a fun PvP system yet. That alone shows that the game is not build around PvP. I'm surprised there are still people who deny that.

1) You loot resources to craft. No, lol , you gather.

2) You craft:
a. Storage
b. Tools to craft with
c. Cosmetics (a few, like campfires, clothes, buildings, etc)
d. Armor
e. Weapons

Evereything up there revolves around Armor and Weapons save for the cosmetics.
And you can use those armors and weapons for PvE too. Cool :)

3) You build up your city with walls to protect it... from PvPers. Or from mobs. Since the walls are not necessary for your protection from PvPers...you have a safe zone, remember ? Only the animals can attack you inside your zone.

4) You PvP to control territory and what are supposed to be limited resources. You can't PvP to control territory, haven't you noticed that yet ?


That's the cycle. Harvest resources to craft, craft to prepare for PvP, PvP to protect resources. Without fun and important player vs player conflicts there is no point to the rest of the cycle, which sounds curiously like where we're at right now. The player made quests fit in with any of those stages, adding to the cycle. The only other option the game would have would be to go sim cityesque, and there are no where near enough sim customizable options to believe that's a route they're heading.

This game was always designed to be PvP focused. Slap your friends who fooled you with that. ;)

This is only your very limited view of the game. You are focused on PvP, not the game :) There is nothing wrong with that, only that you will find the game boring for you.

And no, it wasn't my friends who said that Xsyon is not PvP focused. It was the devs :)

[Dubanka]

Thats why I said : but we need a working economy to give it purpose. PvP is pointless without economy too, so what we needs is item decay, item quality and rare stuffs.

This has been discussed in another thread, but after the mechanics are ironed out, the game really needs purpose...purpose beyond a village building sym. Purpose to interact with other players. Purpose to drive events and actions. here is where the 'its a sand box, make your own purpose' comes out. But it doesn't really work that way...most of us require some degree of 'real' feedback from our actions. If i do this, something else occurs, which i then have to deal with. Cause and effect. Consequence. Call it what you will. We need reasons for doing things, and ramifications for doing them.

Item decay/quality is a subset of a system that will help create this, but on its own, it doesnt do anything. The world is flooded with resources and you can craft at a rate that far exceeds any degree of decay. Then of course you have the PITA factor...too much decay, and the game becomes sim replace (imagine having to upkeep walls to the toon 5% decay per 24 hr period, per wall...4 bricks, per wall section, per day...keeping the walls up becomes a full time job...who plays that game? Too little decay, and you might as well not have it in there. Anyway, Item decay and quality is a feature, not a solution.

The solution is...something (things?) that everybody needs, that nobody has, that exists in very finite quantities in limited and defined geographical areas.

Rare timber stands? Rare metal deposits? Rare plant species? Again, balance between good enough to 'need' but not so good that your completely screwed if you're a have not.

PVP and economy is a chicken/egg argument in this type of environment. Sorry, but you really cant have one without the other.

[Jadzia]

You are so out to lunch. Jordi said the feature list, except for the very bottom section (I forget what it's called), would be in for prelude. I'll find the post if you want.

You don't understand english so it's impossible to have a reasonable conversation with you. You can't even understand the point I'm making. The features the game is missing are advertised on the FEATURES page. lol
The feature list doesn't even mention PvP. Nor tribal warfare. Nor sieges. That is what the OP was complaining about. It do mention protected player owned housing and protected player owned storage.

[Soulwanderer]

This is only your very limited view of the game. You are focused on PvP, not the game :) There is nothing wrong with that, only that you will find the game boring for you.

And no, it wasn't my friends who said that Xsyon is not PvP focused. It was the devs :)

Regardless of what the devs may have said at some point in the past, the game was designed around PvP. This isn't a 'Second Life' clone. Games, even sandboxes, have a gist of what players are supposed to do built in. If the only thing they programmed in to do is engage in combat... guess what. It's a PvP focused game, as designed by the devs. And really... their actions speak much louder than words that were pandering to, at the time, a largely anti-PvP forum crowd.

Although, to be fair, their words could as easily be interpretted to mean that PvP isn't the only thing to do in the game which is true. If you don't care for it much, you can engage in resources harvesting and crafting and only PvP when you run into that situation... but ultimately you're still part of the PvP oriented cycle because everything you're doing and making feeds into it.

[Jadzia]

This has been discussed in another thread, but after the mechanics are ironed out, the game really needs purpose...purpose beyond a village building sym. Purpose to interact with other players. Purpose to drive events and actions. here is where the 'its a sand box, make your own purpose' comes out. But it doesn't really work that way...most of us require some degree of 'real' feedback from our actions. If i do this, something else occurs, which i then have to deal with. Cause and effect. Consequence. Call it what you will. We need reasons for doing things, and ramifications for doing them.

Item decay/quality is a subset of a system that will help create this, but on its own, it doesnt do anything. The world is flooded with resources and you can craft at a rate that far exceeds any degree of decay. Then of course you have the PITA factor...too much decay, and the game becomes sim replace (imagine having to upkeep walls to the toon 5% decay per 24 hr period, per wall...4 bricks, per wall section, per day...keeping the walls up becomes a full time job...who plays that game? Too little decay, and you might as well not have it in there. Anyway, Item decay and quality is a feature, not a solution.

The solution is...something (things?) that everybody needs, that nobody has, that exists in very finite quantities in limited and defined geographical areas.

Rare timber stands? Rare metal deposits? Rare plant species? Again, balance between good enough to 'need' but not so good that your completely screwed if you're a have not.

PVP and economy is a chicken/egg argument in this type of environment. Sorry, but you really cant have one without the other.
I agree with everything you said apart of the last sentence, but I guess when you say 'purpose' we don't think of the same thing. Rare stuffs are essential, that are the ones which really drives an an economy.

In another thread I wrote my points why PvP is not needed to drive an economy. No one argued my points there. Perhaps they missed the thread, perhaps they just didn't have any good counter arguments.


Regardless of what the devs may have said at some point in the past, the game was designed around PvP.
Oh dear...at this point I guess we can't help you. Such a denial makes every argument useless. And you say its designed around PvP after I point out that everything you mentioned as a PvP proof is not designed for PvP. Come on :)

[Book]

Somehow I knew coming in that a number of features were not yet in the game. I knew there was the potential for lag, server crashes, the things you'd generally find in most new games, mmo, fps, or otherwise.

People really had no idea what they were getting into when they bought the game? I'm not sure I understand how that's possible... I'm not that adept a researcher...

For example, Illmaculate, your join date is March, 2010. You didn't know the state of the game when you bought it? If that's the case, you might want to put that breathing apparatus in your signature down for a few :D
People in largish tribes who joined real life friends didn't know what the reality was when they followed their friends in? Presumably they all speak the same language, or at least use a translator.

Whatever the case may be, still baffles me that people who clearly don't like the game feel the need to post many times a day to say they don't like the game... I don't think it's going to speed up the development cycle, the cycle is what it is. I'd bet a metal handle the Devs themselves would love to have the resources to implement their vision faster.

If you're bored inside the game, and consider it an interactive chat room, how are you not bored expressing discontent so repetitively on the forums? Isn't there even less to do here? I just don't get the motivation, I'd like to though.

[Sirius]

this is a pvp game, if you are out of the safe zone you are free game.

Jadzia, you're simply in denial. Sorry hon.

The fact that you can look at the feature list and say "it doesn't even mention PVP" says it all.

[Jadzia]

The game was designed around PVP. Prove us wrong.

Ok.
There are safe zones where no one can touch you and they will stay in game.

Its easy to run away from attacks. The system is planned to 'flee if you don't want to fight'. Most of the PvP is planned to be a friendly fight.

The buildings you build can't be destroyed, the walls you build are not needed to protect you from PKers, only from animals.

You can't fight for land. There is no territory control. When it will be in it will be optional.

They payed a lot of attention on the non-combat features of the game, while combat is broken. I'm not saying this is good, but shows the precedences.

[Soulwanderer]

Oh dear...at this point I guess we can't help you. Such a denial makes every argument useless.

Blah blah blah... and failure to read the entire post is just turning blinders on to what you don't want to see. Your board warrioring is outdated.

Setting aside the debate about what the game is and is not designed to be for a moment, there are more than enough indicators that it is supposed to be PvP based in the features and planned updates to direct those thinking about playing for PvP to buy. After all... they weren't offering pre-order harps and huggable trees. They were offereing Mutilators, Defilers, and Massacres. You know... weapons mean to mutilate, massacre, and defile. Regardless of if you do or do not believe the game to be about PvP, your arguement that people interested in it shouldn't have bought the game is invalid. A lot of information points to it.

[Jadzia]

Jadzia, you're simply in denial. Sorry hon.


This game, while it has PVP, is not PVP focused. The idea is to form a balance for the two.
This is from Virtus too :)

And this is from Jordi:

Ideally, we would have one well balanced world, where most PVP is friendly sparring (not resulting in death) and where evil players really feel like game 'monsters' but with better, unpredictable AI.

Am I in denial ? I'm not complaining about the game not giving me the promised features. Its you guys who find it lacking :) YOu keep saying its built around PvP and at the same time keep complaining that its missing the features needed for good PvP lol. So who is in denial ?

[Sirius]

this is a pvp game, if you are out of the safe zone you are free game.

Still in denial, Jad.

[jokhul]

Regardless of what the devs may have said at some point in the past, the game was designed around PvP. This isn't a 'Second Life' clone. Games, even sandboxes, have a gist of what players are supposed to do built in. If the only thing they programmed in to do is engage in combat... guess what. It's a PvP focused game, as designed by the devs. And really... their actions speak much louder than words that were pandering to, at the time, a largely anti-PvP forum crowd.

Although, to be fair, their words could as easily be interpretted to mean that PvP isn't the only thing to do in the game which is true. If you don't care for it much, you can engage in resources harvesting and crafting and only PvP when you run into that situation... but ultimately you're still part of the PvP oriented cycle because everything you're doing and making feeds into it.

Ah, so you're saying that Jordi's vision for the game is to have PVP as the most important focus, even though he never actually said so ?

And the fact that the PVP systems in the game at launch were the least developed (crafting being the most developed), supports your argument that the game is actually PVP-centric ?

It would seem that Jordi's "secret plan" for the game was executed extremely poorly then. Or else your wishfull thinking has gotten the better of your logic :D

[darkbladed]

Was just a little fun nothing 'Snide' intended.

(runs to the corner and cries)

It's ok I didn't think your comment was anything bad.

Look we have 3 guys (or close to it) working thier arses off.
Best thing to do it wait, quietly, until your sub is over and decide then if the game is what you want.
If it is not unsub and go play another game for a bit.
Hopefully then in 6 months or a year you will check on the game again and like what you see; if you do resub, if you don't don't.

But truthfully unless you are willing to work for free coding and creating content you are not going to speed up anything.

If I won 200 million in the lotto I would give these guys 5 million and then they would be able to hire a slew of devs and artists and other fun stuff and make leaps and strides in a few weeks; so everyone please hope me, or one of the other players, win the lotto and donate.

Otherwise the amount of devs and thier time is limited and it is something we will have to live with.
I have already decided that I will buy another month or two when my sub runs out; but I do not expect that this will be a AAA game by then as they are not funded as well as a AAA game.

Now the more people who stay and maybe give them a bone of a month or 2's subs will help them at least have a chance of making things better.

[Jadzia]

Blah blah blah... and failure to read the entire post is just turning blinders on to what you don't want to see. Your board warrioring is outdated.

Setting aside the debate about what the game is and is not designed to be for a moment, there are more than enough indicators that it is supposed to be PvP based in the features and planned updates to direct those thinking about playing for PvP to buy. After all... they weren't offering pre-order harps and huggable trees. They were offereing Mutilators, Defilers, and Massacres. You know... weapons mean to mutilate, massacre, and defile. Regardless of if you do or do not believe the game to be about PvP, your arguement that people interested in it shouldn't have bought the game is invalid. A lot of information points to it.

Like what informations ?
And you know you can use weapons in PvE too, don't you ? I'm amazed that you think a game having armors and weapons indicates its PvP focused, lol.

[Soulwanderer]

Ah, so you're saying that Jordi's vision for the game is to have PVP as the most important focus, even though he never actually said so ?

And the fact that the PVP systems in the game at launch were the least developed (crafting being the most developed), supports your argument that the game is actually PVP-centric ?

It would seem that Jordi's "secret plan" for the game was executed extremely poorly then. Or else your wishfull thinking has gotten the better of your logic :D

Jordi said that he wanted balance, not for the game not to have PvP as a focus. It's a three stage cycle, and if you pull any of the three stages out it fails. Resources (limited, necessary items) to harvest, crafting to make use of the resources is obviously focused around combat as nearly every item you can make that has a use feeds into PvP, and PvP that focuses its efforts on territory control and obtaining/maintaining resources which takes you back to stage one.

At this point none of the stages works very well. Resources are plentiful and not rare at all, this makes crafting easy but pointless, and PvP is implemented but very very poorly and there is no point to it as there are plenty of resources for everyone. The framework of the cycle is there though. It just needs to be vastly built up for the game to become competetive in the market.

[Jadzia]

Still in denial, Jad.

Ok :) Ignoring the 2 quotes I gave will help you I guess :)
I'm not stopping you to enjoy your PvP focused game, actually I hope you will. Since its PvP focused, I'm sure you will find everything in it that you need to have fun. At the same time I'll keep enjoying my crafting-building focused game which already works well for me.

[Sirius]

I think we can all agree on the following:

1) The features page indicates that PVP, including tribal warfare has always been intended to be a significant part of them game, though not necessarily the central feature
2) Players had every right to rely on the feature page as an accurate description of the game, should not be blamed for any misleading information on that page, and have every right to expect that the listed features are available
3) Numerous comments by the devs indicate that PVP is a basic feature of this game
4) The game would be pretty pointless and silly if it never developed a decent PVP system
5) That said, basic PVP (fighting) is supposed to already be in-game (but with melee sync problems, it's impossible)
6) It's pretty obnoxious that some players feel the need to rationalize the dev's failures and blame them on players, who are told they should have known that the game was very different than what the features page said

[Soulwanderer]

Like what informations ?
And you know you can use weapons in PvE too, don't you ? I'm amazed that you think a game having armors and weapons indicates its PvP focused, lol.

Because hunters historically went out to kill deer in full plate armor? In hunting it's common mutilate, massacre, and defile your dinner? You need safe zones to protect you from dinner wandering in and attacking you in your camp... oh wait, they can do that through the safe zones anyway. I'd say I'm amazed that you can keep your blinders this firmly in place, but really you're looking more like a troll than some one who can't see the obvious at this point.

[Jadzia]

I think we can all agree on the following:

1) The features page indicates that PVP, including tribal warfare has always been intended to be a significant part of them game, though not necessarily the central feature
Please point out which sentences on the feature page indicates PvP and tribal warfare. Quote it please.

[Soulwanderer]

Please point out which sentences on the feature page indicates PvP and tribal warfare. Quote it please.

Combat combines manual targeting and clicking with the final blow success based on the many factors – statistics, skills, weapon type, defense skills, armor and the opponents stance.

Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings.

Combat will be revised during the Prelude and improved to match combat oriented games.


The portion about tribal warfare was talked about in the forums rather than the features page, but it was there for those that wanted to research the game before buying it.

[Jadzia]

Combat combines manual targeting and clicking with the final blow success based on the many factors – statistics, skills, weapon type, defense skills, armor and the opponents stance.

Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings.

Combat will be revised during the Prelude and improved to match combat oriented games.


The portion about tribal warfare was talked about in the forums rather than the features page, but it was there for those that wanted to research the game before buying it.

Seriously, why you keep confusing PvP with combat ? Combat means PvE too, have you never played a PvE game ?
The word PvP doesn't exist on the feature page. Not to mention tribal warfare.

And don't talk about the forum now. Sirius said the feature page, so stick to it.

[jokhul]

Because hunters historically went out to kill deer in full plate armor? In hunting it's common mutilate, massacre, and defile your dinner? You need safe zones to protect you from dinner wandering in and attacking you in your camp... oh wait, they can do that through the safe zones anyway. I'd say I'm amazed that you can keep your blinders this firmly in place, but really you're looking more like a troll than some one who can't see the obvious at this point.

Yes, balance is the all important thing. You seem focused on the starter items and their names: Massacre, Defiler and Mutilator... very combat-orientated indeed... but then there's also the Extractor, Prospector, Excavator and Harvester, which don't sound quite as evil, do they ?

[PrinceReaper]

The reason why the game is failing is because there is no major purpose to your actions.

Player vs player is a fundamental part of this game, I am not talking about just killing players, I do not know why everyone sums it up like that.

Building up your land (check)
expanding (can not do unless you have zergy numbers)
gathering resources (check)
using those resources for a meaningful purpose (impossible)

the biggest problem I have is the fact that there is nothing else to do aside from crafting stuff, which is pointless, because how many baskets do I need to make? do I just grind up my crafting skills and stock up on resources for the next six months?

it would have been really cool, if there was a system in place, that allowed you to build a structure that extended your tribes land.

Another thing is, the restrictions, safe zones, can't do this etc, sure safe zones can be in the game, but we have to wait six months to even fight players and i would not be surprised if it was optional.

I would be content with just expanding my lands, but this little plot of land needs no more work, I sit there and im like, what to do now?

the developers must be nuts if they think they could keep people content with senseless ganking.

another fact I don't like, is that the developers are trying to force grieving to the min but what they are doing is give people santuary which allows them to go grief people and still be safe.

If i had a bunch of grievers near me, I would just clean them up and teach them a lesson, but I am unable to do this.

I am unable to build more towns, or anything and also the interaction between players in xsyon is barely existent, its like isolated communities of zulu warriors who only know how to zerg each other with spears.

But what ever yes I am the OP and reading some of the comments just made me have to post and clear up what i mean.

[Book]

Combat combines manual targeting and clicking with the final blow success based on the many factors – statistics, skills, weapon type, defense skills, armor and the opponents stance.

Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings.

Combat will be revised during the Prelude and improved to match combat oriented games.


The portion about tribal warfare was talked about in the forums rather than the features page, but it was there for those that wanted to research the game before buying it.



@Sirius yes, I'm obnoxious :D Probably not enough coffee... sorry :)

I was actually about to quote the:
"Combat will be revised during the Prelude and improved to match combat oriented games."

Straight from the features page as well. Was this not on the features page when you guys bought the game? Honestly wondering, maybe it was a later addition in response to player concerns... which could be viewed by the more positively inclined as a good thing imho.

If research was done prior to buying the game, was it selective research? Though it's apparently obnoxious to suggest research would have been a good idea to begin with :)

[Sirius]

Please point out which sentences on the feature page indicates PvP and tribal warfare. Quote it please.

*The fact that stealth gives a camouflage effect which makes it harder for other players to see immediately demonstrates that it is intended to be used for PVP purposes.
*The existence of safe zones also shows that PVP is intended outside those safe zones.
*Protected player housing and storage imply something to be protected from (and no, I'm not thinking of bears rummaging through baskets and stealing fish).



Resources can be claimed by tribes.
Resources can be controlled and destroyed to reduce supply.
Character actions are tracked for Good and Evil and hidden stats such as Luck.

Weapon types versus armor types. [animals don't use weapons and armor; thus weapons and armor only go up against weapons and armor IN PVP]

Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings.

Combat will be revised during the Prelude and improved to match combat oriented games.

Player owned protected housing/storage.

[And last but not least:]
Religion.
[Planned inclusion of this last item obviously indicates we were intended to bitterly tear each other's faces off.]


And, Book, I'm only saying it's obnoxious to tell players they should have known the feature page was very different from what the game was planned to be. As I said, players were well within reason, and had every right, legal or otherwise, to believe that the advertising was accurate.

[Mactavendish]

Too many of the more vocal posters on the forums want this to be a newer MO or DF. Those that didn't find this in xsyon have basically left.

The ones playing the game now seem to be the very ones the game was intended for.

To most I have spoken with personally, they enjoy the building up of their tribes and settlements. Some enjoy pvp but most say it should have a purpose. All agree that making resources more scarce would improve many aspects of the game including pvp and trading.

It is quite a stretch to conclude from the names of pre-order weapons that the entire game was SUPPOSED to be focused on PVP. It is simply not true.

[Jadzia]

Book, that sentence wasn't on the feature page when I bought the game, they added it not a long ago to indicate that they will try to implement a Mount and Blade type combat system.

[Mactavendish]

same for me Jadzia.

Also notice that it says "will be revised during prelude". It is being worked on atm and we will help them test and tweak it. Thats what we are doing. It is NOT intended to be a completed game since it is in a constant state of evolution. lets all stop the wishing and get back to helping it become.

[Book]

Book, that sentence wasn't on the feature page when I bought the game, they added it not a long ago to indicate that they will try to implement a Mount and Blade type combat system.

Okay thanks. Honestly, I think that shows the devs are listening and responding to what players are saying...

Probably not going to help those determined to hang on to their disappoinments but I'm not really sure, realistically speaking, what more can be expected... again, based on the realistic constraints of development cycles and resource management of real life companies.

Never played Mount and Blade... Hope it's a fun system :).

[Soulwanderer]

Seriously, why you keep confusing PvP with combat ? Combat means PvE too, have you never played a PvE game ?
The word PvP doesn't exist on the feature page. Not to mention tribal warfare.

I figured I'd have to spell this out for you.

Combat combines manual targeting and clicking with the final blow success based on the many factors – statistics, skills, weapon type, defense skills, armor and the opponents stance.

There has never been any conversation about Tae Kwon Do brown bear or Judo deer, so that naturally indicates a player's stance. Since it specifically says opponent's stance, that means PvP. It pretty much also conveys that Player combat is a given in the rest of the area specifying combat.

Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings

Again, this isn't talking about whether or not dinner can come into your homeland and attack.

Combat will be revised during the Prelude and improved to match combat oriented games.

Combat oriented games is much more likely to mean PvP than PvE, especially given the context of the prior notations... and the fact that Darkfall and Mount and Blade were both reviewed for their combat systems. ;)


And don't talk about the forum now. Sirius said the feature page, so stick to it.

Yeah... don't look at things that are directly at the heart of the discussion because... because Jadzia said so!

[jokhul]

It will probably take a year before most of the things on the feature page are implemented (to some degree) and working well together.

No amount of ranting and complaining will change that, the dev team and the playerbase are simply too small to change that fact.

Jordi is walking a very tight rope atm, trying to be all things to all players. Perhaps that is not a realistic goal, as both sides may be dissatisfied with the outcome. Only time will tell...

[Jadzia]

*The fact that stealth gives a camouflage effect which makes it harder for other players to see immediately demonstrates that it is intended to be used for PVP purposes. Stealth is not mentioned on the feature page.
*The existence of safe zones also shows that PVP is intended outside those safe zones. Safe zones are not mentioned on the feature page.
*Protected player housing and storage imply something to be protected from (and no, I'm not thinking of bears rummaging through baskets and stealing fish). Actually protected player owned housing means that there will be no tribal warfare and sieges, since player built structures can't be destroyed.



The stuffs you listed in the quote doesn't indicate PvP and especially doesn't indicate tribal warfare/sieges. Religion has nothing to do with PvP.

I'm not saying that the game is not supposed to have PvP. All I'm saying that by simply reading the feature page no one would get the impression that this game is PvP focused, would never think that it has open world PvP and would never even think of tribal warfare. Just be honest, if you read a list like that about a new game and wouldn't know anything else about it, would you think it was about tribal wars ?

[Sirius]

The stuffs you listed in the quote doesn't indicate PvP and especially doesn't indicate tribal warfare/sieges.

Yeah, actually, yes it does. Is English your second language?

Ill, the feature page actually doesn't mention full loot so please retract that comment before Jadzia illogically concludes that this cancels out all the other crap on the feature page that DOES indicate PVP and tribal warfare. We have to know our audience here.

[Soulwanderer]

Yes, balance is the all important thing. You seem focused on the starter items and their names: Massacre, Defiler and Mutilator... very combat-orientated indeed... but then there's also the Extractor, Prospector, Excavator and Harvester, which don't sound quite as evil, do they ?

It was an indicator of a PvP slant that went hand in hand with the Features page and discussions on the forums. They did say they wanted balance between PvP and the other areas (required for a successful game imo) so it's no surprise that some of the weapons were given more craft oriented names. Jadzia seems to be on the bend that this game gave no indication that it might be PvP based at all and so people who wanted that had no reason to purchase it, so we're just having fun slapping him around with how wrong he is. ;)

[Trenchfoot]

Too many of the more vocal posters on the forums want this to be a newer MO or DF.

A newer WURM with MnB combat.

[Sirius]

Jadzia seems to be on the bend that this game gave no indication that it might be PvP based at all and so people who wanted that had no reason to purchase it, so we're just having fun slapping him around with how wrong he is. ;)

Dude, based on the sheer level of irrationality it's pretty clear she's a woman. <3

[Jadzia]

Yes, English is my second language. But that doesn't change the fact that tribal warfare is not mentioned on the feature page, nor is PvP. If they were core features they would have clearly state that. You didn't answer my question :)

2) Players had every right to rely on the feature page as an accurate description of the game, should not be blamed for any misleading information on that page, and have every right to expect that the listed features are available
As an accurate description of the game the feature page doesn't mention tribal warfare. Actually protected player owned housing indicates the opposite.

Illmaculate, we are talking about the feature page only.

[Jadzia]

But the feature page is an inaccurate mess. Why in the fuck are we talking about the feature page? Eighty per cent of the feature page isn't in the game or doesn't work.

You keep preaching for people to do their research before they buy the game. If they did their research they would come across the "Conflict, consequences and decisions" thread. If they read that thread they would deduce Xsyon is a PVP game featuring tribal warfare involving full loot pvp.
Because Sirius relied on the feature page in his argument. He based it on it.

[Sirius]

The feature page also clearly indicates that both PVP and tribal warfare are supposed to be part of the game. Your limited English skills do not change what the words mean to a full-blown English speaker.

[fatboy21007]

alright ima add my 2 cents. the game from reading the fourms and features page and chating with the dev's/guides. It is 100% clear on the future of the game. PvP will be the game half focus but not yet. This game was mad to be 50/50 with more interest being toward pve. PvP is ingame as something to do. Also their will be tribal warefare. with options to op out of it not to mention options to keep your safe zone. This is the balance jordi speaks of. If im not mistake i beleave jordi stated once he want the mount and blade combat system (he thought is was cool). Anyhow you all can keep fighting but the games main focus is pve however it isnt all of the games focus and another part is on pvp also. Remember hes doing the systems to prevent greifing. This u all know is a pain in the ass to do. this is his current vision and just by reading fourms and updates youll see that. However future ideas are unclear and atm seems dev's are focused on getting features working new lands opened up and the combat system fixed. But dont bitch or complain when u dont see the tribal warefare ingame for atleast 1year+. they have alot to catch up on and add. atm dev's focus is geting the features page to match ingame and fix all issues. After that your guess is good as mine. How bout we just roll with that n do it day by day. You all can bicker and fight all ya want. still wont change the dev's vision or speed up the process. Cya ingame :-P

[Jadzia]

The feature page also clearly indicates that both PVP and tribal warfare are supposed to be part of the game. Your limited English skills do not change what the words mean to a full-blown English speaker.

Lol, come on. So protected player housing, protected player storage and 'Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings' indicates tribal warfare to you ? Good, I will set combat permission inside my tribe zone to 'OFF' :) Try to siege then lol.
Its a bit cheap to talk about my English skills when you can't prove your point. But nvm, seems you can't admit when you were wrong :)

Added after 5 minutes:


I like how you ignored the second paragraph in my post.

Oh lol ok. That thread doesn't talk about tribal warfare. And if they did some research they would find the newest info from Jordi, which he said in January:

Yes, the goal is to create a virtual world that acts much as the NPC world and towns of a themepark MMORPG. Combat should be part of this world, but not the sole focus. We will soon introduce our quest system, which, along with the tribe mechanics, are meant to keep players entertained who are not interested in PvP combat.

Recently there seems to be a bit of a trend toward independently produced open-world games with sandbox elements and a heavy focus on PVP. What sets your game apart from titles like Darkfall or Mortal Online? Do you see PvP conflict as the driving force behind Xsyon?

What sets Xsyon apart is a focus on building and creating a new world and not relying on PvP as the driving force.

In Xsyon, tribe zones are safe zones. While wilderness areas will be mostly anything goes, encumbrance limits will prevent extensive looting and mechanisms are in place to prevent camping spawn locations. The goal is to have open PvP in general but not cater to griefer types.
And they would find the tribal warfare is not supposed to be in game during Prelude.

[fotuenti]

Religion has nothing to do with PvP.

i'm pretty sure religion has everything to do with pvp ;D

[Book]

i'm pretty sure religion has everything to do with pvp ;D

nah... just because my God is better than your God doesn't mean we can't get along :D We can just call your God "miniGod", and have him/her/it report to my God on Sunday mornings... see? No biggie.

[Dubanka]

this thread has gone pure lol.

and for those arguing for the pure pve experience...well you have it now. Game's a blast eh? Your own private building sym.

and yes, i'm sure 2 or 3 people enjoy the current experience, but the economic viabilty of that model...well, isn't.

PVP, Resource Gathering/Harvesting and Crafting/Building should each hold equal focus...it's the xsyon circle of life. Without one, the circle falls apart...Whether the fact that pvp is only 30% of the equation is somewhat meaningless, as both of the other thirds lose their point, and thus their value without it.

So no, i don't think any of us pvp folk are angling for another darkfall (70% pvp), or else we'd be playing it (especially since it is, comparatively, a superior product at this point)...but that doesn't mean the pvp experience is any less important than it is in the 'pure pvp' games...i'd argue that its more important; since ideally, there is actual 'stuff' at stake.

MOnth or so back i did a whole page on feature page and faq excerpts that clearly showed the game designs intended focus on pvp. The fact that these issues weren't pushed to a point where a clear vision emerged prior to this...well, can't answer that...this is all pretty obvious and basic stuff that should have been explored, addressed, and implemented during an alpha/beta stage. For such a debate/discussion to be occurring at this juncture is really kind of a head scratcher.

Now would be a great time for Mr. Dev to chime in and address the issue so we can have a definitive response to the issue...so we can all stfu about it. Personally i'm tired of having this argument. It's either a basic, core, component of the game, or its not...

[Sirius]

Jadzia, since you are playing the part of the child with its fingers stuck in its ears, demanding I post with specific reference to the features list and then ignoring the results that show you to be wrong, I'll repeat it all for you and waste my time adding notes for people who don't understand English so well, or don't reach logical conclusions so well.

*The fact that stealth gives a camouflage effect which makes it harder for other players to see immediately demonstrates that it is intended to be used for PVP purposes.


*The existence of safe zones also shows that PVP is intended outside those safe zones.
[This is so obvious no further explanation is needed.]

*Protected player housing and storage imply something to be protected from (and no, I'm not thinking of bears rummaging through baskets and stealing fish).
[Again, too obvious for further explanation.]



Resources can be claimed by tribes. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare]
Resources can be controlled and destroyed to reduce supply. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare]
Character actions are tracked for Good and Evil and hidden stats such as Luck. [It's extremely obvious that the primary "evil" action is supposed to be murdering other players]

Weapon types versus armor types. [animals don't use weapons and armor; thus weapons and armor only go up against weapons and armor IN PVP]

Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare.. your suggestion that this isn't supposed to mean PVP since everyone could theoretically turn PVP "off" is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. You can turn anti-aliasing off too, but that doesn't mean it isn't in the game.]

Combat will be revised during the Prelude and improved to match combat oriented games. [Notice the words MATCH COMBAT-ORIENTED GAMES. It's pretty far-fetched to suggest that this [I]DOES NOT include PVP.]

Player owned protected housing/storage. [again, this implies something to be protected FROM]




Jadzia, I'm starting to suspect the reason your posts make so little sense is that you are speaking in a foreign language that you don't properly understand. For example, you quoted the interview comments by Jordi:


Yes, the goal is to create a virtual world that acts much as the NPC world and towns of a themepark MMORPG. Combat should be part of this world, but not the sole focus. We will soon introduce our quest system, which, along with the tribe mechanics, are meant to keep players entertained who are not interested in PvP combat.

Recently there seems to be a bit of a trend toward independently produced open-world games with sandbox elements and a heavy focus on PVP. What sets your game apart from titles like Darkfall or Mortal Online? Do you see PvP conflict as the driving force behind Xsyon?

What sets Xsyon apart is a focus on building and creating a new world and not relying on PvP as the driving force.

In Xsyon, tribe zones are safe zones. While wilderness areas will be mostly anything goes, encumbrance limits will prevent extensive looting and mechanisms are in place to prevent camping spawn locations. The goal is to have open PvP in general but not cater to griefer types.

And you conclude that this is what it says!


And they would find the tribal warfare is not supposed to be in game during Prelude.

It doesn't even come close to saying that. It says that PVP is "not the sole focus", it says they want to entertain those players "who are not interested in PVP", it says PVP is "not the driving force"; it says "the goal is to have open PvP in general but not cater to griefer types".

NONE OF THAT SAYS OR EVEN IMPLIES THERE WILL BE NO TRIBAL WARFARE IN PRELUDE. It merely says that there won't be ONLY PVP, and that there will be plenty for non-PVPers to do. Nor does it say there isn't supposed to be PVP. It says there will be open PVP in general.

It's not just that this "research" is beyond what a customer is ordinarily expected to do regarding an entertainment product purchase -- on top of that, the interviews, forum posts, and features page all indicate that PVP, including tribal conflict, is a basic feature.

[jokhul]

A proper study of the Features list reveals the following:

There are 17 feature "sections", of which ONE deals with Combat (and 1 for Armour)
There are 122 bullet-points listing features, of which 9 deal directly with Combat-related features
The word "Combat" appears 8 times.
The word "Craft" or "Crafting" appears 27 times !
The word "Kill" does not appear, but the word "Skill" or "Skills" appears 33 times !
"Full Loot" is not mentioned ANYWHERE
There is no mention of the words "War", "FFA", "PVP", "Conquer", "Defeat" or "Siege"


So Xsyon is combat-centric FFA-PVP game, is it ?

The Feature Page sure makes a good job of hiding that, lol

My reading and comprehension skills are obviously sorely lacking, because many other posters in this thread can clearly find the justification for their interpretation of Xsyon as a brutal game of full-loot warfare...

[Book]

This.

The problem is, as you point out, Jordi has no idea how the mechanics will work. Months ago he turned to a small group of vocal forum posters who were adamant about not being griefed (waaaah) and didn't want pvp and territory control to be Xsyon's main focus. They stated everyone would be happy playing bob-the-builder online, crafting in the peaceful confines of their safe tribal zones. They stated Xsyon's community didn't want another Darkfall, or another Mortal Online.

Now that the game's been released and it's a massive pile of garbage, people are beginning to see it for what it really is — a shallow sandbox with no purpose, no direction and no functionality.

He's flip-flopped back and forth on the issue for months, seeming to provide both the 'pvp' and 'pve' crowd with a few carrots here and there. With the game released in the state it's in I think it's time the community received some concrete information from the devs about a final 'vision' for the product.

The "small group of posters not wanting to be griefed" is only small because most of those folks don't post. They don't choose to complain incessantly, most just leave and go to another game where they don't have to deal with infantile little bullies plopped in front of a computer because Mom and Dad wanted some time off. I'm sure you have enough experience playing MMORPG's to comprehend this basic fact and to have noticed that trend. I presume you're a "full-blown English speaker," and thus have superior analytical skills enabling you to wrap your head around it.

If you're looking for a "final" vision, again, a small amount of experience would tell you that the very nature of MMORPG development is dynamic.

@Sirius: your ethnocentrism is evolutionarily archaic. We live in an increasingly global society. If you can't handle that, the internet is probably not for you.

[Jadzia]

You know, Sirius, that you are ignoring the answers I already gave you. But I think I can see where is the problem...you have always played PvP games, so when you see something you interpret it in a PvP way. I played a lot of games without PvP so my thinking is not limited to that.

Resources can be claimed by tribes. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare] Oh no, not at all, in Atitd you can claim resources and there is no combat.
Resources can be controlled and destroyed to reduce supply. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare] Again, same in Atitd, and it doesn't mean tribal warfare there.

Character actions are tracked for Good and Evil and hidden stats such as Luck. [It's extremely obvious that the primary "evil" action is supposed to be murdering other players] I give you this one. The best explanation for this point is PvP.

Weapon types versus armor types. [animals don't use weapons and armor; thus weapons and armor only go up against weapons and armor IN PVP] There are a lot of games where animals have armors. Zombies can use weapons as well.

Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare.. your suggestion that this isn't supposed to mean PVP since everyone could theoretically turn PVP "off" is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. You can turn anti-aliasing off too, but that doesn't mean it isn't in the game.] This may mean duelling too. It can mean PvP, but not tribal warfare.

Combat will be revised during the Prelude and improved to match combat oriented games. [Notice the words MATCH COMBAT-ORIENTED GAMES. It's pretty far-fetched to suggest that this DOES NOT include PVP.] I'm not saying that it can't include PvP. But clearly doesn't prove it.

Player owned protected housing/storage. [again, this implies something to be protected FROM] This actually says that there will be no siege system, since houses can't be destroyed.And in some games you have to protect your stuffs from NPCs.

In my post to Illmaculate I wrote Jordi's interview as one of the sources, people would know that tribal warfare won't be in during Prelude from other places, since it was stated like thousand times.

No interview, post or whatever from the developers ever said that tribal warfare will be in game during Prelude. They always said that it will be implemented after Prelude.
Jordi's interview doesn't mention tribal warfare at all.

[Sirius]

Holy crap. Yeah, your reading and comprehension skills are obviously sorely lacking.

[Sirius]

LOL school's out, kids. I'm done trying to educate the illiterate.

Word of advice: don't ever rely on your English ability if anything important, such as money, is involved. Make sure the convo is in a language you demonstrably understand.

[jokhul]

Holy crap. Yeah, your reading and comprehension skills are obviously sorely lacking.

You, on the other hand, see what you want to see, not what is on the page.

99% of your "proof" is deductive, based on what you WANT the text to mean. You quote from the feature list, and then you "explain" what the text "actually means", lol

[Jadzia]

That's my point. He turned to them for advice and then did a 180-degree-spin on the game's core mechanics midway through the pre-order alpha test. Now people are leaving a result of the game these monsters have created.

As for my comment about a final vision, I'm not talking about specifics — just a general outline regarding what people can expect in terms of gameplay styles and options, including pvp and tribal conflict mechanics.

Jordi already said it, Illmaculate.
Sirius: When out of arguments, its time to insult ? :)

[Sirius]

Actually was responding to jokhul, but the shoe also fits Jad just fine. I'm not sure why I even respond to such idiotic comments. And hey, look! The next post down has Book accusing me of "ethnocentrism", thus clearly demonstrating he doesn't even know what that word means, much less how to use it correctly. It sure had a lot of syllables and SOUNDED intelligent, though!



Sirius: When out of arguments, its time to insult ?

When someone insists that 2 + 2 = 5, they're not "arguing" and you'd be wasting your time to continue "arguing" with them. As ILL so poignantly puts it: "words have meanings". Some basic grasp of logic is also a prerequisite to putting up a legitimate argument. For example, you'd have to realize that even a single item on the features page implying PVP is enough to utterly demolish your position that Xsyon is not supposed to have PVP.

You simply don't get it, either at the language level or the logic level. Thus this is a waste of my time.

[Dubanka]

jadzia consistently ignores Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one

instead creating hypothesis based on what would be possible, but unlikely.

[jokhul]

Actually was responding to jokhul, but the shoe also fits Jad just fine. I'm not sure why I even respond to such idiotic comments. And hey, look! The next post down has Book accusing me of "ethnocentrism", thus clearly demonstrating he doesn't even know what that word means, much less how to use it correctly. It sure had a lot of syllables and SOUNDED intelligent, though!

So, your response to my summary of facts from the feature page is a one-line insult ? :D

How about another try ? Why would YOU say that only 10% of the Feature page is devoted to Combat features, and has no reference to FFA-PVP ?

Surely, if the game is FFA-PVP focused, we could expect some heavy punting of that side of the game in the Features List ?

[Soulwanderer]

So, your response to my summary of facts from the feature page is a one-line insult ? :D

How about another try ? Why would YOU say that only 10% of the Feature page is devoted to Combat features, and has no reference to FFA-PVP ?

Surely, if the game is FFA-PVP focused, we could expect some heavy punting of that side of the game in the Features List ?

I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make here... the game clearly HAS FFA-Full Loot-PvP. Crafting items are clearly geared toward combat. Resources are clearly needed to craft. As tribal areas are safe zones, resource piles are clearly the primary area where players will fight. PvP is clearly a large part of the game. Why are you babbling about percentages of words?

[Jadzia]

He didn't say anything. You constantly interpret and spout nonsensical drivel about how the game will pan out.


Regarding the future of safe zones and conquest as brought about by the discussion of War and Peace servers:

What I imagine is:
- Tribes choosing to become warring on non-warring, not as an on / off switch but as a permanent or difficult to reverse decision, likely based on tribal actions.
- Warring tribes would be able to conquer and raid others, but they will also become susceptible to war. Non warring tribes would keep their area safe, but don’t gain the ability to raid or conquer other tribes.
- Both warring and non-warring tribes could claim resources that would be up for contest by both types of tribes.
- Some expansion zones being open to more conquest without safe zones, while in others tribes would retain the choice to war or not.

As always, Xsyon will evolve with its community to provide balance and choices. What exactly game will become 6-9 months from now will depend on how players drive the world.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/590-Xsyon-Updates-Archive/page21/#205

[Sirius]

So, your response to my summary of facts from the feature page is a one-line insult ? :D

How about another try ? Why would YOU say that only 10% of the Feature page is devoted to Combat features, and has no reference to FFA-PVP ?

Surely, if the game is FFA-PVP focused, we could expect some heavy punting of that side of the game in the Features List ?

Hi, a "summary of facts" from the feature page is only useful if the "facts" are somehow relevant.

Here are some "facts" for you. The U.S. Constitution does not include the words "separation of Church and state", nor does it say "it shall be unconstitutional and unlawful to deny African-Americans the right to attend public school, or to use public highways, or to be served in privately-owned restaurants, hotels, movie theaters, or other places where the public routinely gathers". But guess what? The Constitution says those things, even if it doesn't take the trouble to make a convenient soundbite and embroider it on a little pillow for you.

Nor does the fact that the words "freedom of speech" make up less than 0.01% of the total words in the Constitution mean that those words are not incredibly important.

In short, you picked out a few utterly meaningless statistics that do nothing to advance your argument or detract from mine. Get yourself an education.



JADZIA: I'm confused, how does a post by Jordi talking about tribal warfare, tribal raiding, and tribal conquest support your firm position that the game is not supposed to have PVP, let alone tribal warfare?? RIDDLE ME THAT PLZ KTHX

[Dubanka]

OK...found it...twas my 'GO TO WAR' speech for when the two server thing was going on...my premise was, it was how the game was designed, and meant to be played. For your reading pleasure :p

This is a post to lobby for players to play on War.
If you're already of this mindset, please help me out with anything i missed.
If you're on the fence about which server to play on, please read on to help make an informed decision.
If your feet are firmly planted on Peace soil, please take a gander so you can understand what you're missing.


Will you fight for justice to stop the chaos or will you join in the ranks of evil to bring upon the ultimate destruction of the earth?
First paragraph of the game description. Good versus evil. Fight for the right to control a post apocolyptic future of the planet. The very premise of this game is conflict. Embrace it. Conflict gives the PLAYER the ability to ENFORCE peace, or to INCITE chaos. There is is no conflict when there are rules to control it. The game's concept was to be a wide open, choose your destiny, choose the fate of the world game. Sometimes others wont agree with your vision. The question is, do you want to be able to do something about it without their express permission and approval?


The new world hangs in a moment of uncertainty. Though the rift in reality has called forth many benevolent gods and creatures, this truly is the time of the Apocalypse. The seven seals are about to be broken. The Four Horsemen loom over the land awaiting their chance to spread destruction and chaos. Devils and angels vie for control of their earthly battlefield.
Pick a side. Fight for your beliefs. Bring allies to your aid. Lay waste to those who would oppose you. See your world vision brought to life. Without the freedom to act of your own accord, at your own whim and according to your own vision, you will not be able to play out this battle.


Your path is one of choice. Will your actions help heal the planet or will you play a part in its ultimate doom? What will be the destiny of the Xsyon, the promised land?
Or will yo sit back behind your invulnerable walls, in your invulnerable tribe lamenting the fact that your neighbors are taking more than their agreed upon share of resources in the area...You'd like to be able to do something about it, they are jerks most of the time, but alas, they are not agreeable to a battle so..well the campfire sure is perty.


What is Prelude?

Prelude is the first chapter of Xsyon. It is a time of discovery, building, and exploration and will continue through summer as the game evolves to include more content and features.
The MOST glaring lack of content in the game is the lack of pvp mechanics. Will you be on the server that allows for it to be discovered, and explored to it's maximum potential? Or will you habitate a land where it is deemed an afterthought, an unnecessary marketing ploy to attract the more base game players? Player vs player, and guild vs. guild combat is the pinnacle of internet gameplay. Your opponents are real. Their tactics evolve to match and counter your own. They will seek to expose your every weakness so you must use every tool the game provides to ensure you do not yield or faulter. You must be constantly vigilant for you do not know when a hated enemy will choose to strike or a trusted friend deems you expendable and turns on you when yu are most vulnerable. Discover, Explore, Build. You will need every advantage you can find, because you do not know what your rival may bring to the party.
Or, you can just choose to play where you don't have to forced into any action that you'd choose not to engage in.


What type of combat system does Xsyon have?

Combat is twitch based with manual defense with left and right attacks and defense moves (dodging and parrying / blocking). Attack is both targeted and area based to specifically attack the highlighted target and part but also hit any secondary targets within weapon range.
Combat mechanics are currently horrible. Broken even. Not nearly to the level that a pvp community would expect in a game focused on pvp. I don't think it's meant to be this way. Be where you can make a real impact improving these mechanics so that this game becomes something we can recommend to our friends (http://www.playtocrush.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18968&page=4).
Current situation: Suck.
Future: Lets help them make it right.
Or you can choose to play on the server where pvp its viewed as an irritant.


Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones

Open PvP. PvP with consequence. There is no consequence if you can choose to avoid it. Play the game, not a sim.

Summary:
If there is going to be a ghost town, let it be the server where they really only care about playing with themselves and peacfully coexisting with their friends.

Let them experience the thrill of consensual pvp. Let them experience the agony of not really losing something because, well that wasn't in the war agreement. Let them fight heated political battles about why their tribe wont accept a war from another tribe.
If this if what you're after, please play THERE.

If you want to play where every moment is a potentially life or death. Where every seemingly meaningless death could be the straw that pushes nations and alliances into full fledged war. Where your efforts in crafting and city building have real meaning because they will be used and tested under the harshest of conditions. Where political slights and desires outside of the game have real impact on the course of events inside of it. Where you can truly fight for chaos or order. This is server where crafters, logisticians, strategists and tacticians will be fully engaged and able to prove their value to the highest degree. This is the server where LEADERS will emerge to bring war, or peace to the world.

If you truly want to play the game.

Play War.
/cue soundtrack

[jokhul]

I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make here... the game clearly HAS FFA-Full Loot-PvP. Crafting items are clearly geared toward combat. Resources are clearly needed to craft. As tribal areas are safe zones, resource piles are clearly the primary area where players will fight. PvP is clearly a large part of the game. Why are you babbling about percentages of words?

The OP asked "What is Xsyon ?", and many posters attempted to define it as a FFA-PVP focused game.

By looking at the emphasis of the planned Features, I attempted to answer that question. That analysis showed that at least according to the planned shape of the game, PVP is a very small feature, and hardly gets a mention at all. All of the references to "Combat" could just as easily apply to PVE fights, in fact. The game datafiles even list "Zombie Armour" as ingame items.

So, using the Feature List as a support for an argument painting Xsyon as a FFA-PVP focused game is a very weak support. There are other good reasons to promote that vision, but the "Planned Feature List" certainly is not one of them.

[Sirius]

The feature list was only being discussed in the first place because Jadzia has the nerve to sit there and claim it doesn't indicate that PVP and tribal war are supposed to be part of the game... as part of her campaign to blame all of Xsyon's problems on the players who bought it after being misled by the feature page.

Nobody is trying to say the features page represents the comprehensive, final discussion of Xsyon's gameplay vision. But it is the ADVERTISED ONE that players based purchase decisions off of.

[jokhul]

Hi, a "summary of facts" from the feature page is only useful if the "facts" are somehow relevant.

Here are some "facts" for you. The U.S. Constitution does not include the words "separation of Church and state", nor does it say "it shall be unconstitutional and unlawful to deny African-Americans the right to attend public school, or to use public highways, or to be served in privately-owned restaurants, hotels, movie theaters, or other places where the public routinely gathers". But guess what? The Constitution says those things, even if it doesn't take the trouble to make a convenient soundbite and embroider it on a little pillow for you.

Nor does the fact that the words "freedom of speech" make up less than 0.01% of the total words in the Constitution mean that those words are not incredibly important.

In short, you picked out a few utterly meaningless statistics that do nothing to advance your argument or detract from mine. Get yourself an education.



JADZIA: I'm confused, how does a post by Jordi talking about tribal warfare, tribal raiding, and tribal conquest support your firm position that the game is not supposed to have PVP, let alone tribal warfare?? RIDDLE ME THAT PLZ KTHX

Good try, but irrelevant, lol

You want to compare the wording of the Constitution to the "Planned Feature List" of Xsyon, both in content and purpose ? Jordi will be flattered :D

The Constitution does not deal with legal interpretation, the courts do that. And there you will find the long-winded interpretations of what the broad statements in the Constitution do and do not mean.

You continue to insist that your slanted "interpretation" of the clearly defined Features is actually the correct one ?

Remember, we're trying to determine what the FOCUS of the game is, not what you want it to be.

The passing mention of Combat, Weapons and Armour does not automatically imply that it is a FFA-PVP focused game. All themepark MMO's have those features too.

[Jadzia]

The feature list was only being discussed in the first place because Jadzia has the nerve to sit there and claim it doesn't indicate that PVP and tribal war are supposed to be part of the game... as part of her campaign to blame all of Xsyon's problems on the players who bought it after being misled by the feature page.

Nobody is trying to say the features page represents the comprehensive, final discussion of Xsyon's gameplay vision. But it is the ADVERTISED ONE that players based purchase decisions off of.

Sirius, you may find hints for PvP on the feature page. Its not clearly states it, but there are points which can be meant like that. But NOTHING points to tribal warfare, only you read it that way.


Nobody is trying to say the features page represents the comprehensive, final discussion of Xsyon's gameplay vision. But it is the ADVERTISED ONE that players based purchase decisions off of.
I agree with this. Thats why its important to notice that the fature page doesn't advertise PvP and tribal warfare. And its not only me, everyone who can read and not that biased as you are see that.


JADZIA: I'm confused, how does a post by Jordi talking about tribal warfare, tribal raiding, and tribal conquest support your firm position that the game is not supposed to have PVP, let alone tribal warfare?? RIDDLE ME THAT PLZ KTHX
Come on, you can do better than that. I've never said the game is not supposed to have tribal warfare after Prelude, I said tribal warfare is not mentioned on the feature page and its not supposed to be in during Prelude.

[Sirius]

The feature page also does not contain the exact words "This is a PVE game".

Thus, by your logic, since there is no such thing as implication and inference (a.k.a. common sense), it's not a PVE game.

The feature list also does not explicitly mention bears, so there are no bears.

When I go to the gas station, and the sign says $3.50 for Regular Unleaded, that means I get to fill my whole tank for $3.50, because the sign didn't explicitly say "NOTE: ALL POSTED PRICES ARE PER-GALLON".

That's exactly how much sense you kids are making.

[Book]

<snip. And hey, look! The next post down has Book accusing me of "ethnocentrism", thus clearly demonstrating he doesn't even know what that word means, much less how to use it correctly. It sure had a lot of syllables and SOUNDED intelligent, though! <snip>

Ethnocentrism, it's under 'E' in the dictionary, but I'll save you the trouble since you've done so much to teach others...

"belief in the intrinsic superiority of the nation, culture, or group to which one belongs, often accompanied by feelings of dislike for other groups "

You seem to feel your inability to speak multiple languages somehow makes you, and your arguments, superior. You pejoratively point to another not being of the same language group as you are as somehow making their point, unrelated to language, inferior to yours. You feel justified in belittling another's argument merely on the basis of their maternal tongue, which is not the same as yours. You hide behind your linguistic group as some sort of proof that you must clearly be more correct.

Hence, not the accusation, but the statement of fact that you are, indeed, ethnocentric. Centered upon your own ethnicity as somehow being more valid rather than considering the points made.

Is there anything else I've said you need me to simplify for you?

[jokhul]

The feature list was only being discussed in the first place because Jadzia has the nerve to sit there and claim it doesn't indicate that PVP and tribal war are supposed to be part of the game... as part of her campaign to blame all of Xsyon's problems on the players who bought it after being misled by the feature page.

Nobody is trying to say the features page represents the comprehensive, final discussion of Xsyon's gameplay vision. But it is the ADVERTISED ONE that players based purchase decisions off of.

Only about 20% of the Features Page is devoted to Combat and related systems, and fails to mention FFA-PVP or warfare and sieging in any way.

Yet you claim players were MISLED because they understood that the game was all about FFA-PVP, warfare and sieging ?

[Jadzia]

The feature page also does not contain the exact words "This is a PVE game".

Thus, by your logic, since there is no such thing as implication and inference (a.k.a. common sense), it's not a PVE game.

The feature list also does not explicitly mention bears, so there are no bears.

When I go to the gas station, and the sign says $3.50 for Regular Unleaded, that means I get to fill my whole tank for $3.50, because the sign didn't explicitly say "NOTE: ALL POSTED PRICES ARE PER-GALLON".

That's exactly how much sense you kids are making.

The feature page doesn't mention bears. Thus if there were no bears in game, you had no right to complain about them missing.

The feature page not mentioning tribal warfare doesn't mean it will never be in game. It only means you have no right to complain about being misled by it.

[Sirius]

Ethnocentrism, it's under 'E' in the dictionary, but I'll save you the trouble since you've done so much to teach others...

"belief in the intrinsic superiority of the nation, culture, or group to which one belongs, often accompanied by feelings of dislike for other groups "

You seem to feel your inability to speak multiple languages somehow makes you, and your arguments, superior. You pejoratively point to another not being of the same language group as you are as somehow making their point, unrelated to language, inferior to yours. You feel justified in belittling another's argument merely on the basis of their maternal tongue, which is not the same as yours. You hide behind your linguistic group as some sort of proof that you must clearly be more correct.

Hence, not the accusation, but the statement of fact that you are, indeed, ethnocentric. Centered upon your own ethnicity as somehow being more valid rather than considering the points made.

Is there anything else I've said you need me to simplify for you?

First, I do speak multiple languages.

Second, expecting people speaking a given language to actually understand it is not ethnocentrism. Thinking that your language and culture are superior is ethnocentrism. I'm not doing that. But where the features page is in English and the discussion about it is in English -- hell, even in IRC, you're only allowed to talk IN ENGLISH -- being able to clearly speak, write, and understand English is of critical importance. Demanding this has nothing to do with ethnocentrism. It has to do with making sure everyone is capable of using the same language, can communicate with each other, and can effectively understand the language as written.

And you know what? If I'm trying to engage in a debate in a foreign language, and the people who are native speakers tell me I'm not quite following the discussion properly, I'd accept that as genuine criticism... not fall back on some ridiculous argument that they're chauvinistic about their culture.

So like I said, your 100% incorrect use of the word absolutely demonstrates that you don't know what it means.



Yet you claim players were MISLED because they understood that the game was all about FFA-PVP, warfare and sieging ?

Nope, players were MISLED because the features page implied that the game INCLUDED FFA-PVP, warfare and sieging, when it actually doesn't.


The feature page doesn't mention bears. Thus if there were no bears in game, you had no right to complain about them missing.

The feature page not mentioning tribal warfare doesn't mean it will never be in game. It only means you have no right to complain about being misled by it.

The feature page does talk about PVP. And tribal warfare. QED. All this despite your earlier claim that "tribal warfare is not mentioned on the feature page, nor is PvP."

[darkbladed]

That's called a piss-poor investment. It also says wonders about your intelligence.

- the wall street journal

Funny cause I didn't mean it as a money making venture; more as a "for fun" thing.

[Book]

First, I do speak multiple languages.

Second, expecting people speaking a given language to actually understand it is not ethnocentrism. Thinking that your language and culture are superior is ethnocentrism. I'm not doing that. But where the features page is in English and the discussion about it is in English -- hell, even in IRC, you're only allowed to talk IN ENGLISH -- being able to clearly speak, write, and understand English is of critical importance. Demanding this has nothing to do with ethnocentrism. It has to do with making sure everyone is capable of using the same language, can communicate with each other, and can effectively understand the language as written.

So like I said, your use of the word absolutely demonstrates that you don't know what it means.



Nope, players were MISLED because the features page implied that the game INCLUDED FFA-PVP, warfare and sieging, when it actually doesn't.



The feature page does talk about PVP. And tribal warfare. QED. All this despite your earlier claim that "tribal warfare is not mentioned on the feature page, nor is PvP."

Which part was not clearly written or spoken? You assume they must not be understanding clearly because they do not agree with you. You only brought up the language barrier as your frustration mounted that not everyone sees it as you do. As I said, rather than sticking to the points made, you chose to belittle based on supposed language comprehension, which you continue to do. Your feeling of superiority almost matches my own. :cool:

Fact is, a majority of your posts resort to belittling people who don't agree with you. One would hope you are capable of more than that, but hopes, as you well know, do not make reality... which is why what you hope to see on the features page, does not make it reality... even if you are "a full-blown English speaker." Congratulations by the way.

This is not a language issue, you can hide behind that as long as you like, just as you can continually complain about a game you don't like. It really doesn't have much of a bearing, and yes, it is entirely a waste of your time.

[Sirius]

To be fair, it could well just be the language barrier. I'm sure she's brilliant in... I dunno... Dutch?

[Soulwanderer]

I agree with this. Thats why its important to notice that the fature page doesn't advertise PvP and tribal warfare. And its not only me, everyone who can read and not that biased as you are see that.

"Everybody who doesn't agree with me is wrong! Only I can be right! Everyone else who doesn't see that is biased which makes them wrong!"

You even agreed with Sirius that one of the copy and pastes he made referenced PvP. Therefore it is on the feature page which means... you are wrong and are now just trolling. :cool:

[Book]

I thought we already established you have the reading comprehension of a small child. Why can you not admit that? You can't read English and you can't write English. Engaging in a battle of wits with people who clearly have more command and understanding of the language probably isn't your best option.

How original.

[jokhul]

<snip>
Nope, players were MISLED because the features page implied that the game INCLUDED FFA-PVP, warfare and sieging, when it actually doesn't.

Implied ?

How ?

How on earth did the Feature List imply that the game "INCLUDED FFA-PVP, warfare and sieging" ? Please quote the relevant part that implies the above ?

Or did you extrapolate that from the fact that there is Combat mentioned in the Feature List ?

Nobody that read ONLY the Feature List could possibly be misled about the nature of Combat in Xsyon, except perhaps in expecting there to be MUCH LESS of it than there actually is.

However, anyone that read the forums would have gotten an entirely different picture from the one painted in the Feature List, I'll grant you that. But most of the forum posts were player opinion and arguments about what shape Combat SHOULD take in Xsyon. Hell, "full-loot" isn't even mentioned in the Features, lol

[Book]

"Everybody who doesn't agree with me is wrong! Only I can be right! Everyone else who doesn't see that is biased which makes them wrong!"

You even agreed with Sirius that one of the copy and pastes he made referenced PvP. Therefore it is on the feature page which means... you are wrong and are now just trolling. :cool:

Come on man, and the whole "Everybody who disagrees has a lack of reading comprehension!!" holds water for you?

I'm pretty sure I'm trolling at this point but it's evidently gotten under my skin. It don't belong there, yo.

[Hanover]

How original.

So you get this type of thing often?

[Jadzia]

To be fair, it could well just be the language barrier. I'm sure she's brilliant in... I dunno... Dutch?

Of course its only the language barrier. Thats why I can find the words 'warfare', 'siege', 'PvP', 'player versus player', 'kill' etc on the feature page. It must be the lack of my English skills.

As I said, the only problem is that you've never played games which had these features without PvP, thats why you think that they can't be achieved without a warfare system.

[Soulwanderer]

Come on man, and the whole "Everybody who disagrees has a lack of reading comprehension!!" holds water for you?

I'm pretty sure I'm trolling at this point but it's evidently gotten under my skin. It don't belong there, yo.

Hey, he said it. No one can disagree with him and be right because they're biased.

[Book]

So you get this type of thing often?

lol

I hear people resort to that when they can't handle someone disagreeing with them, yes. It's been done quite a bit in this post actually, and Illma certainly didn't come up with the rather sad little tactic on his own.

Which leads me to say... how original.

[Malivius]

Just to chime in, I have to say...I've read the Features page several times through now and I see absolutely NO mention of PvP or Tribal Warfare...

I see ONE mention of combat directly and several indirection mentions...nothing else.

I don't mind PvP and will enjoy it from time to time, but I think a huge portion of the unhappy, vocal playerbase now on the forums is expecting something that was never supposed to be the focus of the game.

Personally (IMHO) I don't see needing anything more than a smooth, working system very similar to what's already in place...clear the lag up, fix any desync issues, and quality/tooltips/etc for armor and weapons will do the rest...

(not getting into the necessity of a reason to fight [read interact] with other players...that is a whole other *valid* argument

[orious13]

Ok this thread is a joke I stopped at page 6.

1) The game is not working as intended for a complete game. One thing everyone agrees on. If the point of this time frame was ONLY to build, then yes the game kind of is as it should be. The unclarity of this makes it so that Xsyon will win any argument. Neither the disgruntled nor the happy player will win.
2) It is unclear whether the feature page refers to Prelude or does not. The fact that it isn't clearly stated should instill doubt into anyone who reads that and sees that the game's build is refereed to as "prelude".
3) One cannot "read between the lines" and force their own facts. If there was a "court case", you would lose pretty bad because you are reading things how you want to. That is an emotional attachment.

Bottom Line:
The only problem is the lack of clarity. People can read however they want to and say whatever they think is "correct", but none of that matters. You're just beating yourself up. Best read it emotionless and take it as direct as it is "displayed". Direct...either clear or cloudy, is all that matters in the end. This isn't a bible Mad Lib. You can't fill in the blanks and expect it to still resemble "God's word".

The devs. should see this thread (amongst others) and realize (if they have not yet realized) that while they may consider the presentation of their game as clear, it is not. It could also be unclear for a reason.

[Book]

Hey, he said it. No one can disagree with him and be right because they're biased.

Fair enough, but at least call out your own tribesman as well. Apparently anyone who wasn't born to the english language can't disagree, because, well you know, they spoke another language before speaking english... that makes more sense to you?

[Sirius]

Which part was not clearly written or spoken? You assume they must not be understanding clearly because they do not agree with you. You only brought up the language barrier as your frustration mounted that not everyone sees it as you do. As I said, rather than sticking to the points made, you chose to belittle based on supposed language comprehension, which you continue to do. Your feeling of superiority almost matches my own. :cool:

Fact is, a majority of your posts resort to belittling people who don't agree with you. One would hope you are capable of more than that, but hopes, as you well know, do not make reality... which is why what you hope to see on the features page, does not make it reality... even if you are "a full-blown English speaker." Congratulations by the way.

This is not a language issue, you can hide behind that as long as you like, just as you can continually complain about a game you don't like. It really doesn't have much of a bearing, and yes, it is entirely a waste of your time.

Actually, I noted several points on the feature page that either directly indicate PVP/tribewar or indirectly imply it. Jadzia even admitted that at least one of these bullet points obviously refers to PVP. Thus her insistence that the feature page "tribal warfare is not mentioned on the feature page, nor is PvP" can only be chalked up to a language failure or a logic failure. To be honest, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that it's a language failure.

[jokhul]

"Everybody who doesn't agree with me is wrong! Only I can be right! Everyone else who doesn't see that is biased which makes them wrong!"

You even agreed with Sirius that one of the copy and pastes he made referenced PvP. Therefore it is on the feature page which means... you are wrong and are now just trolling. :cool:

So ONE out of the 122 bullet-points on the Feature List refers directly to a feature that probably has no use outside of PVP ?

And that proves that the game is PVP-focused ?

I'm not trying to prove there's no PVP intended, I'm just trying to establish the FOCUS of Xsyon...

[Sirius]

Eh, this thread is a feces exposition being put on by expert excrement expeditors.

[Book]

Eh, this thread is a feces exposition being put on by expert excrement expeditors.

:D
Thank you, that made me laugh...
It seems I can't stop staring at this thread. I'm considering asking more experienced trollers for advice on getting the heck out of here because the dishes ain't getting done and I want to play the game...
argh.

[Dubanka]

Implied ?

How ?

How on earth did the Feature List imply that the game "INCLUDED FFA-PVP, warfare and sieging" ? Please quote the relevant part that implies the above ?

Or did you extrapolate that from the fact that there is Combat mentioned in the Feature List ?

Nobody that read ONLY the Feature List could possibly be misled about the nature of Combat in Xsyon, except perhaps in expecting there to be MUCH LESS of it than there actually is.

However, anyone that read the forums would have gotten an entirely different picture from the one painted in the Feature List, I'll grant you that. But most of the forum posts were player opinion and arguments about what shape Combat SHOULD take in Xsyon. Hell, "full-loot" isn't even mentioned in the Features, lol

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.
thats in teh faq.

Little do you know you are destined to become a hero.

Your path is one of choice. Will your actions help heal the planet or will you play a part in its ultimate doom? What will be the destiny of the Xsyon, the promised land?
that's from the home page...kinda sets the stage for a control the future of the world type scenario...I guess you could do that as an individual if your a big enough bad ass. More likely it is alluding to tribal conflict. I guess it could mean that the bears are the real enemy, spawn of satan, and your goal as a survivor is to resist their repeated attempts to enslave the remainder of humanity.

I'm seriously not sure how you could read the home page and not infer a major good vs. evil pvp clash set up. I mean it would be one thing if there was a factional evil npc ai that presses against you, makes incursions from the mist, etc. but there isn't. and it has been stated that evil players are the games 'mobs'. so good vs. evil is obviously a player vs. player clash. I mean that is the backkdrop of the game. Good vs. Evil. Creator or Destroyer. Who controls its evolution.

first paragraph on the home page:

Will you fight for justice to stop the chaos or will you join in the ranks of evil to bring upon the ultimate destruction of the earth?


i want to join the ranks of the pacifists, sit in my magically protected dome of impenetrability, make baskets and stare across the lake at sunset. Don't make me break out my crafting knife. And those evil racoons better keep their diistances, their plots of world domination shall not come to pass!!! (because i have no problem harming a cute furry critter BECAUSE IT HAS A MASK!!)

[Soulwanderer]

Fair enough, but at least call out your own tribesman as well. Apparently anyone who wasn't born to the english language can't disagree, because, well you know, they spoke another language before speaking english... that makes more sense to you?

Well I do lean more toward Jadzia being a troll at this point than it being a language barrier. As Sirius mentioned in the post right after yours he's chalking her failure to see what's in front of her as a language issue or a logic (intelligence) issue. Language is likely the more polite way to go. ;) Really though, as Jadzia has already mentioned that it is there her arguement now that it is not is really just baiting the conversation to continue. I don't have a problem participating as I'm home sick with nothing to do, and troll bashing can be a fun past time.

The really sad part is that the devs could have easily stepped in quite a while ago and said "Here is the general direction we want to go with this at this time..." to not only put this conversation to rest, but the next several that are going to take place in the coming weeks. They're going to have to do it anyway toward the end of May if they want June to see much of a subscriber base.


So ONE out of the 122 bullet-points on the Feature List refers directly to a feature that probably has no use outside of PVP ?

And that proves that the game is PVP-focused ?

I'm not trying to prove there's no PVP intended, I'm just trying to establish the FOCUS of Xsyon...

Doesn't really matter what you're trying to prove. The conversation was with Jadzia who is trying to say that it isn't mentioned anywhere. ;)

[Sirius]

i want to join the ranks of the pacifists, sit in my magically protected dome of impenetrability, make baskets and stare across the lake at sunset.

Yet you won't come over to my parents' house and have dinner JUST ONCE.

::runs off crying::

[Jadzia]

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.
thats in teh faq.

Little do you know you are destined to become a hero.

Your path is one of choice. Will your actions help heal the planet or will you play a part in its ultimate doom? What will be the destiny of the Xsyon, the promised land?
that's from the home page...kinda sets the stage for a control the future of the world type scenario...I guess you could do that as an individual if your a big enough bad ass. More likely it is alluding to tribal conflict. I guess it could mean that the bears are the real enemy, spawn of satan, and your goal as a survivor is to resist their repeated attempts to enslave the remainder of humanity.

I'm seriously not sure how you could read the home page and not infer a major good vs. evil pvp clash set up. I mean it would be one thing if there was a factional evil npc ai that presses against you, makes incursions from the mist, etc. but there isn't. and it has been stated that evil players are the games 'mobs'. so good vs. evil is obviously a player vs. player clash. I mean that is the backkdrop of the game. Good vs. Evil. Creator or Destroyer. Who controls its evolution.

first paragraph on the home page:


i want to join the ranks of the pacifists, sit in my magically protected dome of impenetrability, make baskets and stare across the lake at sunset. Don't make me break out my crafting knife. And those evil racoons better keep their diistances, their plots of world domination shall not come to pass!!! (because i have no problem harming a cute furry critter BECAUSE IT HAS A MASK!!)
Dub, no one is arguing about the game having PvP. We are arguing about the feature page only, not other threads or homepage. We all know that Xsyon has PvP (though it hasn't got tribal warfare yet), the questions is that someone who reads the feature page only could figure it out of it. And if anyone can claim that he was misled by the feature page since he thought it advertised tribal warfare.


Soulwanderer, I said that tribal warfare is not mentioned on the feature page, not anywhere.

Malivius, are you native English ? Since it seems that no one with English as a second language can have a word here :)

[Sirius]

You're losing track of your own arguments, Jad.

You said the features page doesn't mention tribal war OR pvp.

Thus, even if someone accepts the crazy mental backflips that you had to go through to interpret the language to mean there is NO tribal war, you're still stuck with the fact that the features page clearly indicates PVP is part of the game.

Furthermore, you're presenting a false dilemma. Since I said that anyone who reads only the features page (and not the many forum posts) will be misled, you challenged me to show feature-page language indicating PVP is part of the game (which I did).

That's all well and good. But you're missing a crucial point: Players were entitled to rely on ANYTHING ANYWHERE where the devs said there would be PVP. But the only thing they were OBLIGATED to look at, in order to know what they were getting into, was the features page. But this still means that the devs can be held to what they said in interviews, on their web forums, etc... YET players cannot be faulted for basing their purchase decision SOLELY on the feature page.

The obligation to advertise a product accurately, unfortunately for your argument, is a single-edged sword. Thus, while mention of PVP on the feature page is sufficient to justify players' expectations that the game would have PVP, it is not necessary. QED.

[jokhul]

11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.
thats in teh faq.

Little do you know you are destined to become a hero.

Your path is one of choice. Will your actions help heal the planet or will you play a part in its ultimate doom? What will be the destiny of the Xsyon, the promised land?
that's from the home page...kinda sets the stage for a control the future of the world type scenario...I guess you could do that as an individual if your a big enough bad ass. More likely it is alluding to tribal conflict. I guess it could mean that the bears are the real enemy, spawn of satan, and your goal as a survivor is to resist their repeated attempts to enslave the remainder of humanity.

I'm seriously not sure how you could read the home page and not infer a major good vs. evil pvp clash set up. I mean it would be one thing if there was a factional evil npc ai that presses against you, makes incursions from the mist, etc. but there isn't. and it has been stated that evil players are the games 'mobs'. so good vs. evil is obviously a player vs. player clash. I mean that is the backkdrop of the game. Good vs. Evil. Creator or Destroyer. Who controls its evolution.

first paragraph on the home page:


i want to join the ranks of the pacifists, sit in my magically protected dome of impenetrability, make baskets and stare across the lake at sunset. Don't make me break out my crafting knife. And those evil racoons better keep their diistances, their plots of world domination shall not come to pass!!! (because i have no problem harming a cute furry critter BECAUSE IT HAS A MASK!!)

You are quoting from the FAQ, not the Feature List. Some posters here have been arguing that players were misled by the Feature List into believing the game was all about PVP.

This thread asks "What is Xsyon ?", and I take that to mean "what is the game supposed to be about". What it IS right now is not something I really want to talk about, lol

We all know Xsyon has FFA-PVP, and that the actual combat system needs major work. But that does not imply that PVP should neccessarily become the driving force in the game. EVE has an interesting mix of brutal FFA-PVP and PVE, "safe" zones and FFA-zones. It keeps a large portion of non-PVP'ers as loyal subscribers. I would not say EVE is PVP-focused. It can be, if you want that, but you can also live there with very little risk of getting ganked.

Does that "ruin the game" for the PVP'ers ? Evidently not, because there are loads of them as well.

[Book]

It's never going to stop :D

Dub, go have dinner at the man's house already. Sure, he's wearing a gas mask and holding a torch, but you have a gas mask with glowing green eyes, you'll be fine.

My hunger and thirst bar have been depleted, and in my lack of foresight, I didn't install my office in the loo.

I fail you all and take my leave :).

[Sirius]

The game has pvp: fact


I call BS one that one -- last time I checked, the game only had random-teleportation-based country square-dancing while holding weapons.

[darkbladed]

Truthfully I cannot wait until the free period is over and everyone who just bitches leaves to go back to darkfall or something with oodles of pvp

[Soulwanderer]

Truthfully I cannot wait until the free period is over and everyone who just bitches leaves to go back to darkfall or something with oodles of pvp

Why's that, you looking for the game to tank due to lack of funding?

[Jadzia]

You're losing track of your own arguments, Jad.

You said the features page doesn't mention tribal war OR pvp.

Thus, even if someone accepts the crazy mental backflips that you had to go through to interpret the language to mean there is NO tribal war, you're still stuck with the fact that the features page clearly indicates PVP is part of the game.

Furthermore, you're presenting a false dilemma. Since I said that anyone who reads only the features page (and not the many forum posts) will be misled, you challenged me to show feature-page language indicating PVP is part of the game (which I did).

That's all well and good. But you're missing a crucial point: Players were entitled to rely on ANYTHING ANYWHERE where the devs said there would be PVP. But the only thing they were OBLIGATED to look at, in order to know what they were getting into, was the features page. But this still means that the devs can be held to what they said in interviews, on their web forums, etc... YET players cannot be faulted for basing their purchase decision SOLELY on the feature page.

The obligation to advertise a product accurately, unfortunately for your argument, is a single-edged sword. Thus, while mention of PVP on the feature page is sufficient to justify players' expectations that the game would have PVP, it is not necessary. QED.

Sirius, this is where the debate started:


I think we can all agree on the following:

1) The features page indicates that PVP, including tribal warfare has always been intended to be a significant part of them game, though not necessarily the central feature
2) Players had every right to rely on the feature page as an accurate description of the game, should not be blamed for any misleading information on that page, and have every right to expect that the listed features are available
You simply ignore the fact that you failed to prove that the feature page advertise PvP and tribal warfare. Everything you mentioned can be meant in a PvE system too. There is only 1 hint that is more logical in a PvP system (though it can be meant in PvE too, just imagine a player killing angels makes him evil, while killing demons makes him good), but NOTHING indicates warfare.

The devs did talk about PvP in interviews, but never mentioned tribal warfare. It was only brought up on forum, and it was always promised after Prelude. PvP is in, combat is under rework, tribal warfare will be in later just as they said. So how did they say misleading informations ?

[jokhul]

Truthfully I cannot wait until the free period is over and everyone who just bitches leaves to go back to darkfall or something with oodles of pvp

Well, I can't see NG rolling out a totally overhauled combat system before the end of the "free-period", so anyone that wants to wait for that will either have to subscribe on "good faith" or leave and come back in 6 months or so...

[Jadzia]

For about the thousandth time — most of the bullet points listed on the feature list don't work, aren't in game, or are broken. Can you agree with that? Probably not, because you wear rose-colored glasses.

I like my rose glasses, a queen deserve nothing less :p

Illmaculate, let me ask something. Try to put your personal feelings toward me aside. I'm honestly interested in your opinion ( no idea why though lol) and hope that you will answer frankly and honestly...when you first read the feature page, you thought it mentioned tribal warfare ?

[Phazaar]

To clear everything up:

Jadzia, (and VD+Ill) more poignant is that it's not -just- about the features list, it's about the whole website, most importantly the home page and the FAQ. The FAQ definitely states PvP+Tribal warfare, the homepage sets the user up to expect this with talk of conflict and good and evil. I for one read those three pages and bought the game, and I know dozens of others who did too (and have since left, unsurprisingly). Ignoring this though, you still lost the features page argument, so let it lie before they begin beating you round the head with quotes from this thread.

Jokhul, they're not arguing about what the game is meant to be about. I realise it's basically off-topic, but they're arguing about perceptions of a potential buyer on reading the website, because Jadzia somehow believes it couldn't lead a person to believe there is a PvP aspect.

Book, STFU. Nah, jokes, I just can't remember anything of value you've said in order to comment on it... Jokes again ;) Okay, musn't troll. The ethnocentric card was stupid; his point was that the IMPLICATIONS of the features page were as he stated originally, and missing that is either a logical error (harsh) or more likely (and politely) a simple linguistic misunderstanding. As the son of a multi-lingual translator (14 languages, last I checked), this was the FIRST thing I was taught to expect when trying my languages out with mother-tongue speakers. It's not insulting, it's a fact of life. Just like I don't understand German/French/Scandinavian humour and everyone thinks the Turkish are creepy; translations don't often capture sentiments and implications. Hell, even the difference between US and UK english dialects can be insurmountable for native speakers! Simple anthropology/linguistics studies will tell you all you need to know that there was no ethnocentrism here; merely politeness.

VD+Ill: Great forum-warrioring in the face of adversity. You have won though, even if your opponents aren't aware of it (think of yourselves as the NVA and your opponents as the USA and you'll see what I mean ;) ), and now we can steer this topic back on track at least a little bit.

My two cents: Xsyon isn't what it could have been, nor what it should be, yet. I hope that changes, but in the mean time, it needs to be -MUCH- clearer on the homepage that you are purchasing to support the development of a game that will be released in 6+ months. Saying 'more content added' through the 'prelude' I took to mean new technological advances as new things were rediscovered and new areas being unlocked once we had home bases set up. It is not made clear ANYWHERE just how much there is to go before the features list is even half full. In fact, for that matter, the features list -definitely- needs to be updated to say 'subject to change' and more importantly 'Supposed features'. Maybe even do a SWGEMU with it and put 'Features in' and 'Features on their way' or one step further, a rating system for how complete and 'working as intended' each feature is. It would only take an hour of dev time to do this, and would stop more people purchasing under the wrong impressions.

[Jadzia]

When I first read the feature list it wasn't the same as it is now. I'm pretty sure tribal warfare, pvp and looting were all mentioned. I don't even remember. All I know is this game was advertised with full loot pvp, territorial warfare and conquest. That's why I came here in the first place.

I wouldn't have even considered playing this game if I never got that impression.
That part of the feature page has never changed. Ok, then tell me, if you read it now as a new player, would you think it mentions tribal warfare ? This is a serious question.

[Dubanka]

Dub, no one is arguing about the game having PvP. We are arguing about the feature page only, not other threads or homepage. We all know that Xsyon has PvP (though it hasn't got tribal warfare yet), the questions is that someone who reads the feature page only could figure it out of it. And if anyone can claim that he was misled by the feature page since he thought it advertised tribal warfare.


Soulwanderer, I said that tribal warfare is not mentioned on the feature page, not anywhere.

Malivius, are you native English ? Since it seems that no one with English as a second language can have a word here :)

The features page specifically? really? ok. By section:

Landscape- all listed items appear to be working more or less as designed.

Resoursces- not good:
Constantly changing resources can be renewed or depleted. - depleted yes. renewed no.
Availability dependent on season and weather conditions. - Not really. grass was still grass during winter.
Resources can be claimed by tribes. - not sure of intent. Would seem to imply some degree of territorial control. currently can only claim within tribal footprint.
A large variety of resources with individual properties. Different woods, cloths and metals have properties that affect crafted items. - variety yes. affect? not sure, not way to tell...some affect color.
Scavenged items such as books can introduce knowledge of new crafts and skills. in.

Environment - items in except for:
Terrain surface affects movement.
Creatures react to adverse and favorable weather.
Weather conditions affect player actions and item durability - if these are in, i havent noticed them.

Character:
Customizable body, face and hair system.- sure.
Characters visibly gain or lose weight and muscle. - only at creation
Characters age visibly. Ageing affects character statistics.- only at creation
Statistics increase or decrease based on actions, experience injuries and age. - by action only. hardly noticeable.
Skill based system. Skills increase and decrease based on actions and experience. - sure.
Experience is gained for most player actions, not only combat, but crafting, questing, gathering and social activities. - Sure.
Levels gained will give additional points for the character to boost skills and statistics. These are in addition to normal action based skill and statistic gains and reflect what a character would be doing when not actively being played. - Sure.
Characters possess different gauges that affect the performance outcome of actions: Health, Faith, Energy, Hunger, Thirst and Encumbrance. Additional gauges including Comfort and Adrenaline boosts will be added as the game evolves. - Not complete. Gauges track, but only encumberance appears to have affect.
Character actions are tracked for Good and Evil and hidden stats such as Luck. - Not in.

Basic Actions - more or less, sure...you could potentially argue on running or strokes or whatever...but whatever. It's functional.

SKills:
Skills increase with use. - yes.
Skills decrease over time if not used. - No
Skills can be maintained and increased by using experience points. - Yes
Skills are affected by many external factors. - Not that i've noticed.
Many actions are dependant on several skills. - I guess this is referring to crafting requirign woodworking, leatherworking and weaponcraft to make a weapon. Altho it should read, many skills are dependent upon other skills...since it is the skill not the action...but ill give it a sure.
Skill increase is dependant on the character’s current level of similar skills. - not sure what that means. don't know if its in.
Over 50 skills in Combat, Physical Actions, Trade Skills, Crafts and Resource Gathering.- sure. altho combat is misleading (since combat skills are primarily just your weapon skills).

Crafts - mostly in except:
Supreme Master level of craftsmanship for those characters whose achievements top their peers.
Characters achieving the Supreme Master level of craftsmanship work with the Xsyon team to introduce a crafted item of their own design.
As they advance, craftsmen gain the abilities to repair, reinforce and improve objects.

Armor- misleading section because it's more or less marginalized by the level of the PO weapon.
Part based armor system. All parts can be crafted and customized. - sure.
Layered armor system for many possible combinations. - 2 layers. cloths and armor. really only one layer of armor. wouldnt really call it a system but sure.
Armor bulk and material affects player comfort, speed and actions. - comfort not in. speed yes. actions, not really.
Variable armor quality and durability for the same armor type. - Sure. I guess. When we can see it again. So no now, but i know it's there.
Armor parts can be enhanced based on materials used. - No.
Weapon types versus armor types. - Our testing did not support this. No.
Colored materials can be used to create thousands of different looks. - Kinda. Sometimes. Depends upon the piece and armor type.

Objects.
Found objects can be sorted for material and color - Yes. It's a hassle not a feature.
Skilled scavengers have a greater chance of uncovering rare and useful items - Sure.
Discarded objects build up to restock scrap piles. - No
Different areas yield different found objects - I haven't experienced this.
Objects degrade and decay with use and the ravages of weather and time - No.

Creatures.
No set creature spawns or re-spawns. Animals multiply based on the current creature population. Undead never truly die, or do they? - there are definite respawn points. fail.
Creatures gain experience and power, potentially evolving into legendary beings. - sure
Creatures can overrun areas or be depleted. - lol. overrun. depleted yes. only overrun occurred with guide involvement.
Creatures gravitate towards different areas based on mood and weather. - no.
Creatures driven to the outer reaches of the world mutate. - no
Creatures possess realistic loot. If you see armor or a weapon on a creature you can take it. Animals can be carved up for raw materials. - loot no. carve, yes.
Creatures are a primary resource for crafters. - yes.

Communication.
General chat based on hearing range. - no. Unless 9 zones is hearing range.
Whisper directed to specific players within range. - yes.
Town and player group chat channels. - tribe yes. group no. there is no grouping.
Help channel to contact in game Guides. - yes.
Town markets where players can place items for sale. - lol no.

Combat
Skill and statistic based combat. - not noticeable
Manual targeting, affected by abilities. - no.
Manual defense tactics including dodging, parrying and blocking. - no. or utterly pointless.
Body part targeting for critical attacks. - no.
Weapon types versus armor types. - no.
Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings. - no.
Combat will be revised during the Prelude and improved to match combat oriented games. - we'll see.

Tribes.
Players become registered members of a tribe. 10 players or more must come together to form a town. - numbers have changed but sure.
As towns increase in membership, they can claim more land and gain town abilities. - land? to a point. Town abilities? no.
Player owned protected housing. - no
Player owned protected storage. - yes
Flexible part based construction system. - yes
Custom rank system. Ranks consist of a power level and set of permissions and abilities.- yes. have not tested if ability limitations work.
Hierarchical political systems can be formed based on the rank system. - sure.
Bonuses to stats and skills when in native town. - no.
Bonuses to stats and skills for town leaders. - no.
Bonuses to players wearing tribal colors. - i wish. no.
Towns serve as centers for quests, trade, crafting, storage and interaction. - sure.
Tribes can choose tribal colors and emblems to be displayed in tribal clothing, banners and flags. - limited options. only displayed within totem selection. no.

im outta time. gotta run. based on this player's objective review of the feature list, compared to in game actions...assuming the game is runnign smoothly, without the lag spikes of release, zone crashing, sync errors, etc....based purely on list to in game, it's the game's feature advertising is misleading.

[Sirius]

Jadzia, your most recent post addressed to me is utter BS and does not merit a response, but I'll indulge one last time. The features page clearly indicates that PVP is part of the game and strongly implies that tribal warfare is as well. You have to stretch the imagination and make improbable interpretations of the language in order to come up with the mere possibility that this is not what was intended. Clearly Dubs' comment on Occam's Razor went straight over your head, or you would realize that far-fetched interpretations don't trump obvious ones. It's the other way around.

As for how you can really sit there with a straight face and look at the interviews that talk about "open PVP" and the forum notes discussing "warring tribes" and "conquest" that were put up to describe what things were going to be like on the "live" servers... with posts indicating the safezones would be removed "DURING PRELUDE", "as soon as possible, possibly within a month or two" ... and just say that all of this was OBVIOUSLY supposed to take place "after prelude", is beyond me. While the exact details of server launch changed a bit, it has been clear from the start that both PVP and tribal war have been planned from the start.. they've just had trouble figuring out how to let warlike and peaceful ppl coexist on the same server without ruining things for either.

You also seem ignorant of the fact that the interviews and forum posts are also things that players are entitled to rely on when deciding whether to purchase the game (see my above discussion about the "single-edged sword" of truthful advertising, as well as the discussion of what would be "necessary" vs. "sufficient" to justify players' expectations that pvp and tribewar would be in the game (recap: a mention of those topics on the features page is sufficient, but not necessary, to justify the expectation).

I consider this conversation to be over. You are incapable of playing ball.

[Phazaar]

You simply ignore the fact that you failed to prove that the feature page advertise PvP and tribal warfare. Everything you mentioned can be meant in a PvE system too. There is only 1 hint that is more logical in a PvP system (though it can be meant in PvE too, just imagine a player killing angels makes him evil, while killing demons makes him good), but NOTHING indicates warfare.

The devs did talk about PvP in interviews, but never mentioned tribal warfare. It was only brought up on forum, and it was always promised after Prelude. PvP is in, combat is under rework, tribal warfare will be in later just as they said. So how did they say misleading informations ?

He didn't fail, but since you're still missing the point, you need to consider context. The features page ISN'T the home page. People have already read all of the 'good versus evil', 'shaping the future' stuff, then read the Features AND THE FAQ (which DOES mention both FFA PVP and Tribal Warfare). Frankly, any 2 of those 3 will guarantee the impression of PvP to -MOST- people (this is how advertising is decided; its effects on MOST people), and considering the current dynamic within game development, any ONE of those three does more than enough to imply it.

To the rest of your post, see my 2 cents part on my previous post. It -really- isn't made clear how under-featured the game is ANYWHERE on the website. THAT is the real travesty, and that is the real reason we should not be paying.

[HyBrasil]

"World has too many armchair blogger we need more heroes"

Well said.

[Jadzia]

He didn't fail, but since you're still missing the point, you need to consider context. The features page ISN'T the home page. People have already read all of the 'good versus evil', 'shaping the future' stuff, then read the Features AND THE FAQ (which DOES mention both FFA PVP and Tribal Warfare). Frankly, any 2 of those 3 will guarantee the impression of PvP to -MOST- people (this is how advertising is decided; its effects on MOST people), and considering the current dynamic within game development, any ONE of those three does more than enough to imply it.

To the rest of your post, see my 2 cents part on my previous post. It -really- isn't made clear how under-featured the game is ANYWHERE on the website. THAT is the real travesty, and that is the real reason we should not be paying.
I'm not arguing about other features being in the game or not.

Its Sirius who insists that the feature page alone should be responsible to show such core contents as PvP and tribal warfare, and I agree with him. All I'm saying is that it doesn't contains it.

The FAQ does mention open PvP. Where does it talk about tribal warfare ?

Sirius, no idea what are you talking about. Tribal warfare has always been planned after Prelude.

When will we be able to raid other tribes? And what systems are you planning for that?
Not for a while. This was planned for after the Prelude, which will last at least 6 months. When a raiding system is implemented I will first look at what other games do and what systems have had success.


Yes. This is a serious answer.

Thank you.

[Sirius]

Jad: you're just dead wrong. QED. Thanks for playing.

[Jadzia]

Jad: you're just dead wrong. QED. Thanks for playing.

Now thats an argument. Lol.

[Sirius]

Now thats an argument. Lol.

The argument was already made. That's what "QED" means.

Hope this helps.

[Jadzia]

The argument was already made. That's what "QED" means.

Hope this helps.

QED stands for 'quod erat demonstrandum', and usually used at the end mathematical demonstrations when the original theory is proved. You proved nothing.

[Jadzia]

Just want to say thanks for providing me hours of unintentional comedy while I worked today. rofl

You're welcomed, a little correction though, it was intentional. :) I'm having great fun myself, too bad I have to go soon lol.

[Sirius]

Congratulations on your ability to look things up on Wikipedia.

My condolences on your inability to recognize that your argument was soundly defeated approximately 10 pages ago.

Everyone else is just waiting for you to catch up <3

[Jadzia]

Congratulations on your ability to look things up on Wikipedia.

My condolences on your inability to recognize that your argument was soundly defeated approximately 10 pages ago.

Everyone else is just waiting for you to catch up <3

My maths prof used to use it at the university. But he did prove his thesis, not only claimed it.
But anyway, I g2g now for a while, have fun :)

[Book]

Book, STFU. Nah, jokes, I just can't remember anything of value you've said in order to comment on it... Jokes again ;) Okay, musn't troll. The ethnocentric card was stupid; his point was that the IMPLICATIONS of the features page were as he stated originally, and missing that is either a logical error (harsh) or more likely (and politely) a simple linguistic misunderstanding. As the son of a multi-lingual translator (14 languages, last I checked), this was the FIRST thing I was taught to expect when trying my languages out with mother-tongue speakers. It's not insulting, it's a fact of life. Just like I don't understand German/French/Scandinavian humour and everyone thinks the Turkish are creepy; translations don't often capture sentiments and implications. Hell, even the difference between US and UK english dialects can be insurmountable for native speakers! Simple anthropology/linguistics studies will tell you all you need to know that there was no ethnocentrism here; merely politeness.


/sigh

I had tried to STFU, as you so eloquently put it, but then you just had to drag me back in... your parents sound fascinating, 14 languages! That's great.
far as the other stuff, thank you for blessing us with your brilliance. I had tried to simply pm you but doesn't appear in my sent items so I presume it's not working. Are pm's on the features list?

[Dubanka]

not sure what you said was any worse/troll worthy than what anyone else (From either side of the arguement) said. all you can do is chuckle.

[Jadzia]

I got a point in infraction ball from this thread. Yeaaaa boi.

Which one of you bribble babies reported me?

Not a good question if you want replies, since whatever the answer is at the same time it means that the person answering let him/herself to be called bribble baby :p But still, it wasn't me.

[Koll]

It is pretty frustrating to be playing an Alpha (and yes, this IS an Alpha. Beta implies that the software is feature complete (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta))! Those of us who were willing to shell out $40 this early should get free accounts until such a time that the game is more complete.
!

All of you are cheap asses. $40 and $18 a month is cheaper than 5 mins at the strippers :P

[Hanover]

All of you are cheap asses. $40 and $18 a month is cheaper than 5 mins at the strippers :P

Some of us need more than 5 minutes.

[NorCalGooey]

That's called a piss-poor investment. It also says wonders about your intelligence.

- the wall street journal

Reading the Wall Street Journal says wonders about yours.

If he won 200 million it wouldn't be for investment purposes, it would simply be so he (and the rest of the world) can play the game we have always wanted to play and because 5 million is nothing to a man who has everything his money desires.

Dumb ass.

You are from a tribe called Bad As Can and you think you have any credibility. That right there just shows the kind of person you are.




Of course the game isn't PvP based. However, PvP is one of the larger features because most of us play MULTI PLAYER GAMES for COMPETITION vs other humans. If PvP is all you want, go play Mount and Blade. If you want a game with PvP that has a PURPOSE to the PvP other than just the sheer fun of killing, then please, let them complete their game.

I see no purpose in playing in PvP just for the sake of PvP UNLESS it is the most fun hand to hand combat game out there, Mount and Blade. I wouldn't log on Xsyon to PvP even if it was fixed UNLESS there was reason for it. Because Mount and Blade combat is more fun and skillful.

Once there is purpose to the full loot PVP (besides the fun of the combat system itself if there is any) is when the fun will truly come in. When I can kill you and loot that sword that took you 48 hours of REAL TIME mat gathering, smelting, etc to build.



The game isn't based on either, but rather the two go hand and hand. Full loot PvP cannot work without the rest of the game working first. Other wise you are just killing for the sake of killing which only brings the fun into play from the combat system alone. Not the reward for winning the battle.

[fatboy21007]

Their, i am going to solve all of your isses i have personally emailed jordi with a few questions to end all your damn bickering. I'll post it moment he sends me a reply.

[Sirius]

Dumb ass.

You are from a tribe called Bad As Can and you think you have any credibility. That right there just shows the kind of person you are.


Leading off an argument with a personal attack based on random minutiae gleaned from someone's web forum profile is both sensible and classy.

Kind of reminds me of the kid who said I was obviously an idiot because my "Location" tag read "All up in yo grillz".

[Zenmaster13]

Leading off an argument with a personal attack based on random minutiae gleaned from someone's web forum profile is both sensible and classy.

Kind of reminds me of the kid who said I was obviously an idiot because my "Location" tag read "All up in yo grillz".

Haha. I caused you to change your tag. Hit you where it hurt did I? Go ahead call anyone who disagrees with you a "kid" or an "idiot". Then proceed to act all butt hurt, and come back with "all the bad forums people are personally attacking me and not my baseless arguements".

Oh btw quoting Macbeth, lol, real high level stuff right there.

Sirius, you know what your problems is? It's you, and all you. Everyone in here agrees. Maybe someday you will wake up, or get a good smack in the head to do the waking for you. You have to leave the house with your brave forum chops though. See how far it get's you. Good luck lil fella.

[Sirius]

LOL, I need a new pair of pants after the inexplicable leg-humping this guy just gave me. I think you have anger issues, pal.. you seem to talk quite a bit about people getting punched/smacked in real life, whenever you get furious about something on teh internet game forums. Nerd rage much?

[Salvadore]

Sad sad thread...

It pains me to see a game with such potential circle the drain in the crapper the way this one is ;[

The game needs to be:

33% combat oriented (this involves all aspects of PVP, PVE, gear, tools, resources used to get aforementioned, skills to variate between players/abilities, and ALL means to aquire/enjoy the aforementioned.)

33% craft oriented (this is all crafting, resource acquisition, food/buildings/etc, and anything else that can be dubbed as "creating".)

33% logistics (this is tribe locations, fighting over it with FULL tribal warfare, resource acquisition, tribe relocation due to resources/war/whatever, city building (ties in with crafting), as well as ALL forms of trading/mercantilism.)

Denying any of the 3 main 1/3'rds is simply killing the point of this game. Debate ALL YOU WANT about semantics on the features list, or false/misleading promises from devs, or even flat out inability to comprehend OR misconstrued comprehension...ITS ALL NULL. There isn't SHIT to do in this game to keep it alive when it comes time to pay. Sure, there will always be a small population of SPECIAL PEOPLE that actually define "fun" as playing HIDE AND SEEK (most recent event) or RACCOON INVASION/UNPLAYABLE (like previous), but the majority of the MMO playerbase of THE WORLD see that as simply embarrassing...almost to "Hello Kitty Online" status.

IF the game was not intended for pvp as a driving force, it would NOT have made any form of PVP (consensual or not) possible. It would NOT have had a safe zone because the entire word would be one. /THE END.

The reality of the matter is that you CANNOT implement pvp in a game WITHOUT CAUSING it to be a driving force for the game itself. No reason to deny this. Even if it had "consensual pvp only" it would still be a driving force to "do it" thus dictate a players actions/reasons for playing said game.

/END

*p.s. Anyone else notice that Jadzia has more posts than Xsyon himself? That is either trolling hard, or flat out not being able to comprehend anything IMO. Or just this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPBhFdlGupU

[xyberviri]

pvp does not have to be the main driving force of any game that has it, infact most games that include pvp are not specifically focused on it, but more so on how to prevent it.

The game is intended to be a sand box, what is needed is the tools for the players to create the content them selves. there needs to be more procedurally generated content that players can initiate from some point and let the system take over from there.

[Salvadore]

pvp does not have to be the main driving force of any game that has it, infact most games that include pvp are not specifically focused on it, but more so on how to prevent it.


You attempting to prevent the pvp in a game involving pvp is still proving my point: PVP is a driving force for the game, thus you are trying to prevent it from happening. If it mattered nothing at all, it would not be a driving force.

Doesnt matter if it is the "main" or even a "non intended aspect" of the game...it is still a DRIVING FORCE of the game.

[Drevar]

PvP should NOT be a driving force. It should be other other forces that drive PvP. The poor devs are stuck in that if they focus on the non-PvP stuff, they get called out for a broke-ass combat system. If they focus on combat balance and a fighting system, they get called out for meaningless PvP; nothing to fight over.

[Armand]

What happens when you try to push PvP in this game.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf3nFz4xzNE&feature=related

[Drevar]

I recognize that little crap head from the last 20 times I tried to enjoy a meal at a sit-down restaurant.

[Salvadore]

PvP should NOT be a driving force. It should be other other forces that drive PvP. The poor devs are stuck in that if they focus on the non-PvP stuff, they get called out for a broke-ass combat system. If they focus on combat balance and a fighting system, they get called out for meaningless PvP; nothing to fight over.

How about they just remove it then? Im sure they wouldn't have put it in if they didnt intend to have it and ALL of the extra-curricular aspects of it. Why would they (devs) make posts about Mount and Blade style combat, tribal warfare, and etc IF they did not intend for it to be a driving force?

*At this point, I dont feel sorry for the "poor" devs. They've obviously listened to the wrong people since beta...ya know...the ones that actually seem to LIKE this game the way it currently is.

[Dubanka]

PvP should NOT be a driving force. It should be other other forces that drive PvP. The poor devs are stuck in that if they focus on the non-PvP stuff, they get called out for a broke-ass combat system. If they focus on combat balance and a fighting system, they get called out for meaningless PvP; nothing to fight over.

again, its semantics on whether pvp is the driving force. PVP is a component of the circle. you remove it, the circle fails. whether crafting drives gathering which drives pvp or pvp drives gathering and crafting, doesnt matter.

It all has to work, for it to work at all.

[Trenchfoot]

If we can only figure out some way to make something rooted in competition less competitive...

[d3m0nd0]

If we can only figure out some way to make something rooted in competition less competitive...

You mean like turning the Olympics into the Special Olympics? Sounds good to me bro.