Deforestation. When can we expect some timber?

[thalakos]

So i've been running around all over the unlocked landmass making note of potential locations suited for settling. I have noticed a trend. Clearcutting is a real problem ;) it seems anywhere there are people (with very few exceptions) all sign of usable timber has disappeared. Is there any clue as to when trees will populate? most places can't even gather twigs and branches its gotten so bad.

[Kinslayer]

It would be nice to have trees respawn, but even better if we could replant them ourselves.

[NorCalGooey]

I was thinking about that Kins and the only way I could see it working is with really small trees and even then they take a long time to grow.

But for the sake of more fun game play, maybe 100ft trees could grow from seed in 3 months REAL time?

Or an even better feature would be to have the trees grow in increments and as the trees reach certain height (10 ft, 20ft, 30ft, etc) the tree will change to that height and appearance may change as well such as branches and trunk getting wider and branches thicker)

We would have the option to cut down for 5 logs at 3 months or 20 logs at 6 months or however many logs would represent the trees mass at the time (10,20, 30ft tree height, etc)

[Drevar]

As soon as trees regrow they will immediately be cut down again by those needing to grind, hoard, or grief.

[NorCalGooey]

Yeah but that is natural. I don't like the grief part though.

Stops NEED to be implemented such as, LOGS and STUMPS can't be destroyed unless on tribal ground. Which makes sense because you can't build unless on tribal ground which is why people destroy stumps, to build there.

If people want to grind trees with the above implemented it won't be so bad. It will stop griefing too. But the world will still look barren from all the deforestation

[Malivius]

^ Agreed...either take away the ability to just destroy trees/logs for fun outside of tribal areas or make it extremely inconvenient to do (would prefer the first). Otherwise, a complete reforestation of the world would be negated in a week...

[Jadzia]

I was thinking about that Kins and the only way I could see it working is with really small trees and even then they take a long time to grow.

But for the sake of more fun game play, maybe 100ft trees could grow from seed in 3 months REAL time?

Or an even better feature would be to have the trees grow in increments and as the trees reach certain height (10 ft, 20ft, 30ft, etc) the tree will change to that height and appearance may change as well such as branches and trunk getting wider and branches thicker)

We would have the option to cut down for 5 logs at 3 months or 20 logs at 6 months or however many logs would represent the trees mass at the time (10,20, 30ft tree height, etc)

I don't get you. How is that more fun gameplay if we have to wait 3 real months for trees to regrow ?

[Hanover]

I don't get you. How is that more fun gameplay if we have to wait 3 real months for trees to regrow ?

LOL... Sounds like a blast NOT!!!

[NorCalGooey]

I don't get you. How is that more fun gameplay if we have to wait 3 real months for trees to regrow ?

3 months as opposed to decades that it actually takes for them to grow?

[Jadzia]

3 months as opposed to decades that it actually takes for them to grow?

3 months is better than decades. But 2 days is even better than 3 months.

[NorCalGooey]

3 months is better than decades. But 2 days is even better than 3 months.

But at being realistic its exponentially worse. Not many things grow to full in 2 days and trees certainly aren't one of them. Does grass grow an inch a day?

2 days would make the resource far too easy to get. 3 months seems long enough to make the resource still have some trade demand. trees are heavy id rather get the ones that spawn back in 2 days in my safe zone than run over to your zone and haul your stock piled trees back

which means trees lost their value

i gotta go tho. later

[Plague]

How about zombies and realism?

Give us trees that regrow in reasonable time pretty please. I don't have 3 months to wait for a "realistic" event, this is a game after all. And do give us zombies and magic also.

[Jadzia]

But at being realistic its exponentially worse. Not many things grow to full in 2 days and trees certainly aren't one of them. Does grass grow an inch a day?

2 days would make the resource far too easy to get. 3 months seems long enough to make the resource still have some trade demand. trees are heavy id rather get the ones that spawn back in 2 days in my safe zone than run over to your zone and haul your stock piled trees back

which means trees lost their value

i gotta go tho. later
We don't need a realistic game. As long as someone I've hit with an axe can still run like a rabbit, and a person I killed comes back in 1 min, if I can craft an armor in 3 secs which would take a week in real you really can't mention realism. What we need is a coherent and immersive world, not a realistic one.

What if the ancient gods felt sorry for the wasteland and decided to give everything a shorter growing cycle ? Or the radiation from the apocalypse has changed the plants and trees and now they grow much faster ? Its very easy to come up with a good explanation for a faster regrow.

About the economy, we don't need very basic resources to be limited, that would only create an annoying game. What we need is rare recipes, high level rare resources, not rare trees. We don't live in a desert, we live in a forest area, branches and trees aren't supposed to be rare. Logs are not good for trading anyway, since you can only carry 1 log at once.

[xyberviri]

for a game that's a sandbox some times artificial exceptions need to be added for the ass holes that like to kick sand in everyones face. like the cutting trees down thing.


There should be a ass hole gauge for things you do, like cutting down a tree makes it go up but cutting it into logs makes it go down then it lowers with time since after all, normal people cut down the tree turn it into logs and then haul that one pile back to camp. ass holes on the other hand cut the tree down and move on.

[HyBrasil]

Just make it take a good minute and several actions to (depending on your atrributes and logging ability of course) to chop a tree down. It takes me longer to drink water from a river than it does for someone to chop a tree down and cut it into logs.

Increasing the number of trees, and adding actual forests wouldn't hurt either. You should not be able to see the sky very well in certain areas.

If trees will be so few in number and so easy to chop down, then yes, respawn them every 2 days please.

[SAbbath]

What we need is a second radius around your totem where resources are protected unless your in that tribe. That way people that want to chop trees around thier totem can and keep the griefers out.
Trees should be done something like wurm online where they can be planted from a sprout but depending on your skill they may fail to grow with a higher skill they grow and grow faster. I think in wurm it takes about a week for a tree to grow from sprout to full grown tree.
Then trees outside that radius are free for all to chop and grind.

[Hanover]

What we need is a second radius around your totem where resources are protected unless your in that tribe.
Then trees outside that radius are free for all to chop and grind.


That's a horrible idea.


1. We dont need any more restricted areas
2. Tribal areas are already established with no room for the "buffer zone"


If cutting trees took more time/effort people would be less inclined to do it for kicks. If you cant protect your resources, you don't deserve to keep them.


You might as well start calling Totems...BIOSPHERES

[Book]

I would have thought it would be tied to the seasons?

Plant in the spring, harvest in the fall. If you wait til the second fall to harvest, you get more logs. Would encourage sound forestry of culling a bit at a time and allowing some old growth. Might take too long though.

Doesn't help protect against griefers, or the "if I'm stronger than you I can do whatever" brutes, but those types will presumably act on their supposed boredom one of these days and find something more to their liking.

[Lorentz]

Realism is nice, but 3 months ridiculous. Those coming into the game later, ie, not those of us now playing, will come in without any access to basic resources...this will result in one month no resubs. I mean no one wants to play their first day wandering a barren land without the ability to build up a small house at minimum.

I say this. Trees grow naturally, at say a week to large size. Perhaps the addition of a farming type skill, you can accelerate growth by tending the trees, fertilizer made from nitric dirt anyone? This would be in conjunction with food resource growing as a skill. This way those who need the supplies and put the time in will have more than those who run about cutting down the naturally grown trees, adding a small incentive economic value to farming trees while allowing natural gatherers to not be left in the dust by extended growth times of forests.

Another option, well rather a conjunctive option, as I'd like to see both; perhaps a proximity to trees growing would increase the chance of more trees growing (think seeds falling from the trees) so leaving a few natural trees rather than clear cutting would lead to larger and thicker forest growth adding the incentive to not clear cut.

This could be taken further in perhaps trees do not regrow naturally, rather you have to plant them if the land is barren, add tree seeds to the foraging list, people plop a few down, even without farming skill to tend the trees, and the trees can begin to natural reforest an area after laying just a few down in a location. This would both appeal to the realism addicts and ensure that trees are a renewable resource for everyone, even if the land is farmed barren.

[KidCracken]

deforestesation is natural when people are settling.. ofc some way that trees grow back will probably be needed, but if it's like 2 days later and everything is a forest again it would be stupid.. I wan't to see the consequences of people raping nature in this game :) would be cool if people could plant trees but it should take a bit of time.. probably not months though :)

as it is now, and I've only run through about half the map (not explored half the map, just run through the zones), I don't really see a problem.. In some areas all trees are gone, but there's still plenty of places with every resource near and no direct neighbours.. I've spotted at least 3 places where I kinda wished we made our camp.. And if they expand the map at some point, that will help a lot too..

[aliksteel]

Speed up tree growth, Slow down how long it takes to cut a tree down, And make it take a lot more energy.

No one no mater how they have there stat spect out should be able to clear cut an area in ten minutes. We are working with the axe, Not a chainsaws. Even if we had chainsaws it should take lot longer to cut down a tree.

Hoping what we have now is the basic tree cuting skill and Jooky is going to redo the way we cut down tree's. Even if it's adding more time to the process.

[MrDDT]

Speed up tree growth, Slow down how long it takes to cut a tree down, And make it take a lot more energy.

No one no mater how they have there stat spect out should be able to clear cut an area in ten minutes. We are working with the axe, Not a chainsaws. Even if we had chainsaws it should take lot longer to cut down a tree.

Hoping what we have now is the basic tree cuting skill and Jooky is going to redo the way we cut down tree's. Even if it's adding more time to the process.



I agree with you fully.
Using an axe with low skill cutting down HUGE trees should take 10 or 15x longer than it does now per tree.
Chopping it up should take 10x longer.

Skill gain should be 5x faster if it takes that long also.

I would like to see added steps in the process also. Maybe like your axe is stuck, and going from tree - long logs - short logs. Instead of choice to go straight to short logs.

[xyberviri]

that and multiple attempts to cut down a tree. i dont think one round of logging should cut down a tree. esp not those sugerpines.

[Dubanka]

that and multiple attempts to cut down a tree. i dont think one round of logging should cut down a tree. esp not those sugerpines.
You fail to cut down a tree.
comedy. that would be like the most annoying thing ever.
I can see it taking longer, based upon your skill (or rather lack there of) or based upon the type of axe you have...
But failing to cut down a tree?
You don't fail at cutting down a tree. YOu might screw up and cut it down so it falls on you. But if you have an axe, you will cut it down.

but failing? not.

[xyberviri]

You fail to cut down a tree.
comedy. that would be like the most annoying thing ever.
I can see it taking longer, based upon your skill (or rather lack there of) or based upon the type of axe you have...
But failing to cut down a tree?
You don't fail at cutting down a tree. YOu might screw up and cut it down so it falls on you. But if you have an axe, you will cut it down.

but failing? not.

not really failing at cutting down but more like cutting down the tree after taking multiple breaks.
Similar to how you have to drink multiple times to get full instead of drinking your fill all at once

Heres a idea, swap the mechanic for drinking and cutting down trees so that drinking takes as long as it does to cut down a tree to get full.
and cutting down a tree takes as long as it does to get full of drinking.

[Dubanka]

not really failing at cutting down but more like cutting down the tree after taking multiple breaks.
Similar to how you have to drink multiple times to get full instead of drinking your fill all at once

Heres a idea, swap the mechanic for drinking and cutting down trees so that drinking takes as long as it does to cut down a tree to get full.
and cutting down a tree takes as long as it does to get full of drinking.

for the record i think having to drink multiple times to fill up is a stupidly annoying 'feature' i'd rather drink once and have it take however long it does to fill up the tank...stopping if i break the action. having to drink. drink. drink drink drink drink drink drink to get full...well does that process actually add any value to you? it just annoys me.

I could see different types of trees taking longer to cut down than others (ever try to cut a fresh oak log with an axe? not easy...pine actually cuuts much easier)...but the whole multiple attempts to accomplish an action 'feature'...meh. button clicking purely for the sake of button clicking is a fail imo.

[darkbladed]

for the record i think having to drink multiple times to fill up is a stupidly annoying 'feature' i'd rather drink once and have it take however long it does to fill up the tank...stopping if i break the action. having to drink. drink. drink drink drink drink drink drink to get full...well does that process actually add any value to you? it just annoys me.
Totally Agree!

Also after 6 logging trips, where I cut down 15-25 trees per run, I have yet to get 1 lumberjacking skill point (5 skill).
Has anyone gotten a point? anyone started at 5 gotten a point; obviouslly level up points don't count.

[orious13]

I personally think that it should be impossible to make pristine gear without making the leather/metal/cloth from scratch (later updates). So like your axes should break after 1 huge tree or maybe even before then. Especially if all that's holding it together is...a strap. I've got extras...a dime-a-dozen.

Hey that's interesting, ay? You can't cut down huge trees because your axe breaks in the middle of cutting it down unless you've found a decent weaponcrafter. Same for picks...hunting really all you need is a knife blade, so gains should be freaking low if you have crappy blades. Then a toolcrafter making a rod? Some of those fish should break those in half...so you'll need a decent toolcrafter for that. Crappy clothes should break with movement, but still mildly wearable.

[Dubanka]

ii absolutely agree that crappy gear should degrade rapidly. hopefully not on one tree, but 3? 4 absolutely.

grass stuff should degrade rapidly.
leather should rot (degrade rapidly) if it gets wet

for now i'd be happy to see what condition stuff is in, and merely degrade on a flat curve over time.

[boomer0901]

Totally Agree!

Also after 6 logging trips, where I cut down 15-25 trees per run, I have yet to get 1 lumberjacking skill point (5 skill).
Has anyone gotten a point? anyone started at 5 gotten a point; obviouslly level up points don't count.

Yes I've leveled from 5 to 11 or 14 don't remember which one, it's a lot of trees per skill up never counted though

[MrDDT]

Totally Agree!

Also after 6 logging trips, where I cut down 15-25 trees per run, I have yet to get 1 lumberjacking skill point (5 skill).
Has anyone gotten a point? anyone started at 5 gotten a point; obviouslly level up points don't count.

Its about 30 trees per point til about 10, then its about 25 tress, til about 20, then its around 20 trees etc.

I dont know why you are still only at 5 after cutting down almost 100 trees.

[orious13]

Does he have many other high level skills? Maybe there is already a soft cap in place?

[xyberviri]

well at least we know who are the people cutting down over 100 trees.
I still have the trees that i initially cut down a month ago.

[jokhul]

Its about 30 trees per point til about 10, then its about 25 tress, til about 20, then its around 20 trees etc.

I dont know why you are still only at 5 after cutting down almost 100 trees.

Does that mean:
Level 5 to 10 - chop down 150 trees (30 per point)
Level 11 to 20 - chop down 250 trees (25 per point)
Level 21 to 30 - chop down 200 trees (20 per point)

So to get Logging from L5 to L30 you need to chop down 600 trees ? 0.o

[darkbladed]

I got to 6 and 7 today and yes I have lots of high skills
75ish in both leather and tailor
50 architecture
96 basketry
So maybe that is why

I would love to have confirmation on a soft cap

[orious13]

Does that mean:
Level 5 to 10 - chop down 150 trees (30 per point)
Level 11 to 20 - chop down 250 trees (25 per point)
Level 21 to 30 - chop down 200 trees (20 per point)

So to get Logging from L5 to L30 you need to chop down 600 trees ? 0.o

If someone wanted to make a character with 5 logging and level that with only logging (assuming you live near me where there are lots of trees ;)) and compare that to someone that has started with logging at 25 and compare that as well, we might be able to figure out how the cap works. I don't think the community will get a dev answer on how the cap works, but if this is part of the soft cap, it's much better than I thought it would be.

One also has to realize that if they have 90s in skills that they might think it takes billions of time to level them, but if the have all 25s and only 1 that's 90, it might be different.

This is all just something to consider.

[MrDDT]

Does that mean:
Level 5 to 10 - chop down 150 trees (30 per point)
Level 11 to 20 - chop down 250 trees (25 per point)
Level 21 to 30 - chop down 200 trees (20 per point)

So to get Logging from L5 to L30 you need to chop down 600 trees ? 0.o


That's about right for me.
Now I'm not sure others because there may or may not be a soft cap. I don't believe there is a soft-cap though.