No dev team can seem to pull it off

[NorCalGooey]

Here's an article I just read about sandbox MMO's and how there is ZERO true sandbox MMO's in existence. Wurm comes close but its animations and graphics and combat system is just terrible so it has no chance at being the first large sandbox (IMO).


http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-to-make-sandbox-mmorpg-with-half.htm





The first dev team to create this sandbox MMO is going to be very successful in terms of subscriber base. Xsyon is the exact idea this article touches on, it's just way too unfinished for positive word of mouth to start spreading.

BUT I will say that Xsyon even in it's unfinished state is the closest thing to true sandbox than anything on the market.

We just need a lot more tools, rarer resources (of all kinds, everything right now is far too easy to get), extremely rare resources, and then of course a good warfare and fun combat system.

I actually think a sandbox game will be much easier to maintain in the long run.

You won't have to do many content updates as the players create the content.

You will just have to give us more tools as the game evolves. I can think of so many things, it's so easy to give a game like this depth

Why not add blacksmith and mining? Mine ores, place ores into furnace, take hot metal out, hammer it, let it cool for 2 days REAL TIME. Log back in and your armor/weapon whatever is completed ( something for the future perhaps, when we discover how to mine and smith again)

There are more steps than that in creating a piece of armor, but you catch my drift.

Give the skill systems more depth and then add more skills.





I started creating my own game in Unity but realized if Xsyon can't pull off a game like this I definitely can't.


I have plenty of great ideas but am not too good at code. I think I'm just going to compile a huge suggestions list.

After all, Jordi and the other devs coded changes to the physical world via terraforming, which seems difficult enough...I'm sure they can throw together the rest of these features if they could figure that part out...



Good luck to you guys on getting this game off the ground. I'll be making a large post here with some suggestions soon.

[Azhul_NS]

Interesting.

I think the devs made a mistake WRT to the graphics. Something between MineCraft and this would have been less demanding on the engine. That, or having only certain areas as terraformable. Also, have a limit on the number of interactable items each player can have on the map. Well, there probably IS a limit, but it is excessive to have dozens of bags, fires, and uncompleted building projects out there for each player. Stuff should decay fairly quickly for players/tribes that haven't logged on recently.

I agree that mining and smithing would be a lot more satisfying than digging through a scrap pile.

[Ferigad]

Yeah but from what i see at the moment in the game...

If we got allready woodcrafting, its only a small step to metal crafting. If we got allready patterns with "Small Metal Blocks" and so on, its only a small step to a Metal Ingot.

All we would need would be a rock-type as example , like iron-ore or somethin, a architecture building like a forge or a smith, and then the skill and somebody who simply combines the Ore with somethin else and tools, and create ingots out of them.

From there it´s the good old basics to craft forward to all you need. I still see the Junkyards at the moment just at the beginnin point. Think about it...for a small tribe its maybe easyer to create tools/Weapons etc...out of old Junk. And Junk will be no unlimited resource.

Later when you got basic tools, architecture stuff and so on and your tribe is big enough to support it , you could settle over for real blacksmith work. I personly have no doubt that there will be a Ore-System with smelting, forging and blacksmith. The engine and the craftsystem could allready support it. If you could now get the system to aknowledge a "Need" type so you can only smelt ores at a Forge-Building, it would be perfect.

We got Wood and Stonecrafting. Metalcrafting is a matter of time. But at the moment we got still plenty junk ressources. Still cool it would be introduced in prelude. It´s a basic.

[MrDDT]

I think ATITD is the closest thing. Its just lacking combat.

Toss in combat and it would be full on sandbox.

[Saorlan]

Yes Mr DDT but do you play it? No.

So therefore it problably not a good game at all :(

[Cunk]

EVE is quite successful and easily counts as a sandbox MMO. It certainly isn't a theme park. The entirety of what makes EVE enjoyable is player-generated content. Sure it has missions and "dungeons" but they are completely peripheral to the main game and are ignored by the majority of the players.

edit: And even with all the problems Wurm has it's still more enjoyable than Xsyon in its current state. Due to basic design differences I don't see Xsyon ever reaching a point where exploring the map is nearly as interesting as it is in Wurm. Those poor graphics people complain about? Well that's what enables those extremely dense forests that you can actually get lost in. I don't see Xsyon's engine supporting thick forests with those nice-looking but graphically expensive trees.

[Jadzia]

I think ATITD is the closest thing. Its just lacking combat.

Toss in combat and it would be full on sandbox.

Not really. Atitd is way too linear and limited to be a good sandbox. Not to mention that it resets in like every 2 years.

[Ferigad]

Mankind! And Beyond Protocole. By the way, a silent minute for all who liked Beyond Protocol MMORTS. The Company has closed door last month, the game was shut down :(
Out of money....

Both are RTS, Mankind had mh...still NPC Bases, a 80% sandbox..beyond protocole however was completly player driven economy and no NPC`s at all.

[MrDDT]

Not really. Atitd is way too linear and limited to be a good sandbox. Not to mention that it resets in like every 2 years.

Im not sure what you mean by it being linear. Do you mean that you have to train x skill before you can do Y? All sandboxes are like that because that's how it would be. Doesnt make sense to be able to do everything without learning other things first.

[shadowlz]

eve did it right, thats why the are one of the biggest independent devs in the world. Shores of hazeron it pretty damn good to and once the update the graphics it could become a bit popular. Wurm is the best land sandbox i think, stuff takes time and effort, the world is huge its just a bit ugly.

[Plague]

EVE is far away from sandbox since CCP started fuckin up with stupid ideas. This is why I'm here.

[Jadzia]

Im not sure what you mean by it being linear. Do you mean that you have to train x skill before you can do Y? All sandboxes are like that because that's how it would be. Doesnt make sense to be able to do everything without learning other things first.

No. I mean that you are forced to do the tests you are not interested in even a little bit, otherwise you can't learn the skills you like. If I want to learn lvl 4 cooking then I have to do tests which are nothing but a huge grind (not all of them but some are) and those tests have no reward at all only some title and ability to learn next level skills. And since the game resets and it has a goal it is very linear, at the beginning everyone works to unlock skills and technology, then everyone works to gather materials for the tests, and when all of the tests are unlocked and done and pyramids are built the game ends.
There is no player housing, you can't build a house only a workshop, there is hardly any character customization and there is no terraforming.

[Ferigad]

Eve didnt do it right, eve had money like hell to there use.

Eve did just very early saw a good opportunity and took it. And the Goverment of Iceland sponsored CCP, otherwise they wouldnt had the money to run with that mutch devolopers to push the game.
I think it was in the first 2 or 3 years. Had somethin to do with Economical financing for improve the job marked and the IT devolopment made in iceland. CCP had a very very big advancement there in compare to any other company. After CCP had enough players and enough + on there bankvallets, they turned away from there goverment, fusioned with whitewolf and got now locations all over the world.

In there initial time CCP wasnt mutch bigger then Notorius Games or any other stand-alone devoloper that has no big company in there back for cashflow.

[Trusin]

No. I mean that you are forced to do the tests you are not interested in even a little bit, otherwise you can't learn the skills you like. If I want to learn lvl 4 cooking then I have to do tests which are nothing but a huge grind (not all of them but some are) and those tests have no reward at all only some title and ability to learn next level skills. And since the game resets and it has a goal it is very linear, at the beginning everyone works to unlock skills and technology, then everyone works to gather materials for the tests, and when all of the tests are unlocked and done and pyramids are built the game ends.
There is no player housing, you can't build a house only a workshop, there is hardly any character customization and there is no terraforming.


This guy is correct, the idea of a sandbox is that there is no end. The reason ATITD has to reset every few years is because there is a clear beginning middle and end. They could add combat and redesign the skill system and I think it could be considered a decent Sandbox game, the problem is the way the engine is designed I am not sure you could have a decent combat system, point and click interfaces with no clip planes on characters I am not sure how you would implement a combat system.

[NorCalGooey]

Yup, still seeing no evidence for other games as a true sandbox. It just doesn't exist yet.

EVE could have done it, but they didn't.

Sandbox IMO = Video game equivalent of human life. Let me explain that.

Give us the world, give us all the abilities nature and physics give humans (or as many as able to be coded for) and let us create civilizations and eventually warfare will come out of it. It's inevitable.

Relating to Xsyon...here are my thoughts, again, on how to make this work in regards to the warfare system (which is the true meaning behind everything else, for most of the players I'm pretty sure...it's the thrill of the competition)

Allow each tribe for one Safe Haven totem and that is it. Resources on the Safe Haven land can still be taken by all players, but ability to terraform and build structures (plant trees, agriculture, etc) remains the sole right of the totem owners or tribe.

Then make it so there is certain parts of the map where Safe Haven totems cannot be placed. Only expansion totems can be placed there or if a tribe so chooses it's first totem to be placed in the PvP non Safe Totem lands so to speak, they must accept the consequences of potentially losing everything including the rights to terraforming the land. All that would remain from tribes doing this AND being conquered without any other totem...would be the tribe members items they currently had equipped and their stats they have leveled. They would then have to find a new home or disband or quit or whatever they want to do.

But I've said it many times, there must always be one safe haven area that one can always depend on, if they so choose to go that route. You have to accommodate that % of the player base. My thoughts have been very clear on this. My ideal vision of tribal warfare is that anything goes (including land capture) for NON Safe Haven (or expansion) totems and anything goes (which includes, damaging/destroying buildings, looting baskets, destroying resources, usable resources by all AND OF COURSE, everyone can damage everyone) EXCEPT for land capture for the Safe Haven Totems.

And I've also been clear on using the area the rollback the mist as the land capture able area where no one can place Safe Haven Totems.

I just don't see a better system when it comes to accommodating both types of players. Those who do want to own the world so to speak, can do so in the Non Safe Haven land. Hell why am I beating around the bush, it would work like EVE's low security space which can be captured and high security space which can't be captured. Except unlike that system, the high security space in Xsyon would be the Safe Haven Totem area, not the NPC area.

[Xaust]

Out of everything I would say that secondlife is a true sandbox. Why? well its simple, everything on secondlife is user-generated. And yes, a lot of people would say secondlife is not a game, but a more popular IMVU. But frankly these people are idiots for not actually trying to play secondlife. First off, at the moment I am playing in a Mech combat sim called MCM. The mechs are awesomely scripted and fight very well. The battle grounds to fight on are awesome. People even go out in a few gundam rip-offs or tanks they them-selfs have created, of course a GM would have to sign off and give them the OK so they are not OP. But this is what a true sandbox is. The ability to create millions of games inside one game. To create things for people that aren't already there and to create these vastly popular sims where people can do what the hell they want. Sure a lot of people also say that secondlife is full of sex-crazed people, but hell, they are so wrong. Sure they are there if you want them to be and try to find them. But go to the Final fantasy sim, you see people role playing and fighting and just chilling on a bench. Well! my opinion.

[Azhul_NS]

Im not sure what you mean by it being linear. Do you mean that you have to train x skill before you can do Y? All sandboxes are like that because that's how it would be. Doesnt make sense to be able to do everything without learning other things first.

True, but it also makes no sense that you would learn how to make saws and fishing rods from making metal stakes - which is exactly how I learned to make them in Xsyon.

[MrDDT]

True, but it also makes no sense that you would learn how to make saws and fishing rods from making metal stakes - which is exactly how I learned to make them in Xsyon.

I agree there are issues with the system in place dont get me wrong there.

I do believe in training X before Y though. Problem with Xsyon IMO is the fact you can train X all the way from 1 to 100, and be a master in the skill by only doing 1 type of recipe.

[Azhul_NS]

I agree there are issues with the system in place dont get me wrong there.

I do believe in training X before Y though. Problem with Xsyon IMO is the fact you can train X all the way from 1 to 100, and be a master in the skill by only doing 1 type of recipe.

That's ONE of the problems, for sure.

I'm pleased at least with the animal spawns currently. Spring has sprung, and the hungry bears are over my place.