Armors - test, conclusion and proposals

[Plague]

I have tested all 4 types of armor, here are the results for everyone to ponder on (if you care):


No armor = I die to 8 hits fro pre-order axe from my friend who has lvl 27 axe and lvl28 armed combat. (I'm very high in skills due to heavy grind in all skills)

1. Grass - Daogwa assault (lvl60) - very high quality - I die in 12 hits
2. Cloth - lvl50 armors (any) - very high quality - I die in 13-14 hits (really minor difference)
3. Leather armor (castle rock, lvl70) - very high quality - 17-18 hits
4. Bone armor (Washoe Dearbone, lvl55) - moderate to high quality (thanks to Rambo for providing this armor in a nice trade against some vhq tools) - 30-31 hits

So I can draw following conclusion for each armor:

- Grass and cloth have around 1.5x multiplier on your HP
- Leather has around 2x multiplier on your HP
- Bone has 3.75, I guess even 4 at higher qualities (this needs confirmation)

************************************************** ******

Right now, using these numbers, everyone will want bone armor due to it being much better compared to anything else. In fact no other armor makes sense at all considering that it is the same pain in the arse making any high level armor. Even moderate bone will give you awesome protection.

I propose adding some perks to other armors to help the economy and don's screw all who went some other way then bone.

- Grass - good for hiding (there are some rumours around this one but nothing confirmed yet). Example: When you hide you are invisible (regardless of your skill) as long as you don't move so you can set ambush or wait until someone pases you so you can continue on your way.
- Cloth - Light with some extra protection, adds to comfort in the future
- Leather - Medium protection, medium weight, adds to comfort in the winter
- Bone - Best protection, heaviest of all

I hope this helps someone, post your tests (if you like sharing info that is).

[MrDDT]

I agree with they need MORE reasons, but they already do have a reason.
Weight.
I'm pretty sure comfort will go into these effects also later. Plus other skill types, like dodge parry and block. Once the combat revamp is done we will know more.

I would like to seen bonuses and negs to each.
I think one major bonus to things like grass and cloth are they are super super easy to get the resources for them.

[Larsa]

It looks like there's also a limit on maximum durability for the different types of armour.

Grass: Low
Cloth: Moderate Low
Leather: Moderate High
Bones: Very High

These limits can be upped one step with the tools giving a bonus to durability.

[GuideMihr]

It's useless to make test combat now till new combat system is ready :)

[jeru]

Nice testing results Plague. Besides bone being the most heavy and most protective, it also looks the coolest in my opinion :)

[meissner61]

It's useless to make test combat now till new combat system is ready :)

Dont say that youre getting me excited!

[mrcalhou]

It's useless to make test combat now till new combat system is ready :)

I wouldn't call it useless, because it still gives feedback that can be used while they are in the process of developing new combat.

My take on equipment: Every piece of equipment should be useful in game even if you are a maxed out character fighting other maxed out characters and high level mobs. All equipment should have positives and negatives to promote players having to make a choice of what to use, but the negatives should never be so bad that players wouldn't want to use them at all. Since balance is so difficult to achieve, the developers should pay attention to the community and rebalance as needed.

If you play Eve, you will start in a frigate class ship. Frigate class ships have low hit points and low damage; however, they are fast (which makes them hard to hit by larger, more powerful, ships) and they are still good at fulfilling support roles or for taking out the enemies "support" ships if fitted to deal damage. So while you start with one, you can still use a frigate and be useful in a mixed group.

Tl;dr: Even starter equipment should have some usefullness at "end-game" but higher tier equipment should also be useful despite the costs.

[NorCalGooey]

Plague what level is your character?

Someone should test this kind of stuff on a high level character and fresh character...to see if leveling up actually increases hit points or not.

30 hits with a pre order axe? I found that damn hard to believe i get 3 or 4 shotted by a pre order axe

you must have a lot of health

[Zarin]

I hope the devs create a spreadsheet that clearly lays out the different level ranges and different types of armors in those ranges. Each item should have their own pros and cons that that compare to the others in: weight, protection, comfort, etc.

[NorCalGooey]

Encumbrance should effect damage done...just saying.

[ColonelTEE3]

Encumbrance should effect damage done...just saying.

That would be a cool idea. Then you might see those lightly geared barbarian / savage / glass cannon types that risk their health to be heavy hitters. Would add a nice bit of variety to combat.

[Plague]

Plague what level is your character?

Someone should test this kind of stuff on a high level character and fresh character...to see if leveling up actually increases hit points or not.

30 hits with a pre order axe? I found that damn hard to believe i get 3 or 4 shotted by a pre order axe

you must have a lot of health

I have 120 points I have not spents yet. And I have spent at least 150 so far on different issues. As I cant see what level I am I must guess that I'm around 30 or more.

Added after 1 23 minutes:

Encumberance should not affect damage, it makes no sense. There are havy armored knights with huge swords and when they hit you you die. But it should affect attack speed instead, this would be more realistic.

[mrcalhou]

Encumbrance should effect damage done...just saying.


I have 120 points I have not spents yet. And I have spent at least 150 so far on different issues. As I cant see what level I am I must guess that I'm around 30 or more.

Added after 1 23 minutes:

Encumberance should not affect damage, it makes no sense. There are havy armored knights with huge swords and when they hit you you die. But it should affect attack speed instead, this would be more realistic.

I disagree with both of you on the grounds that I don't care what affects what. I just care that it's balanced. I would think having heavier armor affect swing speed would be the better way to balance rather than damage, but at this point in time I'm not sure a proper call could be made on this yet. In reality it could affect both and still be balanced.

[thurgond]

Xsyon isn't a class based game where the classes need to be balanced. Everyone can wear what ever armor they can obtain. The difference is in the effort required to obtain the armor. The harder armor is to get, the more benefits it should provide.

In addition, in PvP you are risking the armor you are wearing. If I'm wearing full bone armor and you are naked, I'm risking my armor and you are risking nothing. I should have a huge advantage in the damage I can absorb. With the latest change, the damage absorption seems about right.

The additional encumbrance of bone means it will be harder to catch a lightly armored foe to do damage, but once in range it doesn't (and shouldn't) mean that less damage should be dealt.

Ravelli

[Jadzia]

Xsyon isn't a class based game where the classes need to be balanced. Everyone can wear what ever armor they can obtain. The difference is in the effort required to obtain the armor. The harder armor is to get, the more benefits it should provide.

In addition, in PvP you are risking the armor you are wearing. If I'm wearing full bone armor and you are naked, I'm risking my armor and you are risking nothing. I should have a huge advantage in the damage I can absorb. With the latest change, the damage absorption seems about right.

The additional encumbrance of bone means it will be harder to catch a lightly armored foe to do damage, but once in range it doesn't (and shouldn't) mean that less damage should be dealt.

Ravelli
Xsyon has no classes, but it does has different crafts. If bone armors have only benefits over all the other types then no one will train leathercraft, and every single player will wear bone armor. You can as well delete cloth and leather armors then since they will be useless.

[NorCalGooey]

Xsyon has no classes, but it does has different crafts. If bone armors have only benefits over all the other types then no one will train leathercraft, and every single player will wear bone armor. You can as well delete cloth and leather armors then since they will be useless.

Exactly. These will probably be used by archers though.

[thurgond]

Xsyon has no classes, but it does has different crafts. If bone armors have only benefits over all the other types then no one will train leathercraft, and every single player will wear bone armor. You can as well delete cloth and leather armors then since they will be useless.

Bone has the best benefits for combat and will be preferred when you know there will be heavy combat. As the game stands, that will be fairly rare. Due to the encumbrance of bone (both the armor and the bear bones) and the ease of killing bears, it would foolish for a single hunter to wear bone. If you have to chase prey like deer, it would be foolish to wear bone or leather. Certainly, if you are hauling logs or wood, there is no reason to wear bone.

If this was a combat only game like most MMORPG's, then everyone would go for bone, but Xsyon is much more and there is plenty of room for different types of armor and clothing.

Ravelli

[NorCalGooey]

Bone has the best benefits for combat and will be preferred when you know there will be heavy combat. As the game stands, that will be fairly rare. Due to the encumbrance of bone (both the armor and the bear bones) and the ease of killing bears, it would foolish for a single hunter to wear bone. If you have to chase prey like deer, it would be foolish to wear bone or leather. Certainly, if you are hauling logs or wood, there is no reason to wear bone.

If this was a combat only game like most MMORPG's, then everyone would go for bone, but Xsyon is much more and there is plenty of room for different types of armor and clothing.

Ravelli

Bone armor's only downfall shouldn't be that it is heavier. I get what you are saying though. Bone armor will be used by heavy infantry to defend or attack a city. PKers probably don't want to be using a full bone set because it takes up 1/4 encumberance on a player with max base combat stats (90,90,90). It's far too easy to run away for that to be effective.

[MrDDT]

Bone armor's only downfall shouldn't be that it is heavier. I get what you are saying though. Bone armor will be used by heavy infantry to defend or attack a city. PKers probably don't want to be using a full bone set because it takes up 1/4 encumberance on a player with max base combat stats (90,90,90). It's far too easy to run away for that to be effective.


No, there should be many factors into all armor.
Cost, Weight, Effectiveness, Looks, etc.

Like Bone armor are much harder to make with skills, and its much harder to get bones to make them, its also heavy, they also might decay faster than say leather.

Who knows all those are factors that need to be balanced out.

Grass armor is light, very cheap to make, very fast to make, and doesnt need a lot of skills (and the skill is very easy to train). Thus the protection is very low.

[Creator]

It's useless to make test combat now till new combat system is ready :)

Maybe true but it is good to see members giving information, sharing and helping eachother... plus honestly we do not know when your new combat system will be ready. Additionally I appreciate the information for the NOW while it is applicable to my current player experience.

thank you much plague.

[ColonelTEE3]

Exactly. These will probably be used by archers though.

"Archers". When you say it like that, it sounds like a class, or a profession. This is under the assumption, im guessing, that no one will be able to switch from bow to melee effectively after this combat revamp, categorizing armed forces into either "infantry" or "archers". I doubt that will be the case, though.

Regardless, i don't think the difference in weight between full bone and full leather is enough to deter players from choosing armor significantly more protective if at only slightly higher encumbrance. Its incredibly easy to get away in this game. If you don't want to die, you wont, unless you've just completely neglected your stamina to the worst extent possible and are caught panting.

[MrDDT]

I think he means people that choose to focus their toons on archery.
There is likely to be a skill cap (soft or hard) one day, and then people will likely focus. While some will be jack of all trades, but master of none. Some will tend to focus on what they like to do best, and be very good at it.

[xyberviri]

No, there should be many factors into all armor.
Cost, Weight, Effectiveness, Looks, etc.

Like Bone armor are much harder to make with skills, and its much harder to get bones to make them, its also heavy, they also might decay faster than say leather.

Who knows all those are factors that need to be balanced out.

Grass armor is light, very cheap to make, very fast to make, and doesnt need a lot of skills (and the skill is very easy to train). Thus the protection is very low.

actually grass protects better than cloth

[MrDDT]

actually grass protects better than cloth

Umm ok.
First Im not saying I agree with your statement. Second is I dont understand your point?
I didnt say grass was better did I? Or Maybe you thought I was asking? I didnt say anything like that.

Im saying there are many factors in how well something should be.
IE. Cost, Weight, Effectiveness, Looks, decay etc. I mean there are a lot of things to balance out there.
Dont think that just because something is 100x more effect than something else means its 100x better and the only option to wear.

[genlutz]

- Grass and cloth have around 1.5x multiplier on your HP
- Leather has around 2x multiplier on your HP
- Bone has 3.75, I guess even 4 at higher qualities (this needs confirmation)

Based on these results and making the assumption that one day agility will effect swing speed then i propose the following.

Swing speed is a equation based on agility. Agility suffers a penalty based on the armor a person is wearing.

Here comes the catch!!!!! The penalty is determined by a base reduction for armor type BUT Quality of the peice determines additional Penalties.

It would get to a point where poor quality armor would add additional agility penalty and Very high quality would add none. There would still exist a flat unchangeable penalty for a armor type but it would be clear who the novice armor crafter was versus the Grandmaster.

[MrDDT]

- Grass and cloth have around 1.5x multiplier on your HP
- Leather has around 2x multiplier on your HP
- Bone has 3.75, I guess even 4 at higher qualities (this needs confirmation)

Based on these results and making the assumption that one day agility will effect swing speed then i propose the following.

Swing speed is a equation based on agility. Agility suffers a penalty based on the armor a person is wearing.

Here comes the catch!!!!! The penalty is determined by a base reduction for armor type BUT Quality of the peice determines additional Penalties.

It would get to a point where poor quality armor would add additional agility penalty and Very high quality would add none. There would still exist a flat unchangeable penalty for a armor type but it would be clear who the novice armor crafter was versus the Grandmaster.


Really we should just wait for the combat revamp and then toss out ideas. Not saying these are good or bad. Just saying it is likely all to change a lot.