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GuideRaguel
06-01-2011, 05:42 AM
Greetings Community,

The combat revision will be released today on the public test server.
Please direct any feedback or suggestions to this thread only.
Do not create discussions, if you would like to create a discussion about the combat system please do in The Barracks.
This is purely for feedback only.
Myself and the Developers will be monitoring this thread to take in the communities feedback while we continuously work on the combat revamp.

The updates can be found in the following link, this will also tell you what we would like your help in testing.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/1440-Xsyon-Updates

If you have any questions you would like answers to, regarding the new combat system that is currently being tested go to our new Q&A thread.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/7003-Combat-Q-amp-A-for-week-6-1

Thank you everyone.

Creator
06-01-2011, 01:07 PM
So i kept hearing from the dev's about this awesome combat system... its so cool, man going to change everything!!! ya know.. like ya know right!

So we patch today... all last week since the ground work for replanting patch which was fail... no new content... patch before that was decay... just like my mood today.

So we get the patch, and test server is up after the site has been fail for hours!!!

I login to see this amazing new combat system, only to find it is the same shit, with the same look and feel, cept knives ( my top skilled weapon is broken ) ah and I knew desync would be there... but... we waited weeks for this god forsaken... directional swing...... directional swing with... some pretty epic bugs.

Its a rage post, I know, its unsightly, and etc. But I really feel sorry for those today who have played this game for over a year... and the reason we and they or anyone else isn't seeing new content is for FAIL... directional swing.

So I am going to rage log for about a week.. catch you all next Wed. if I don't see some new decent content before my first month is up, not going to be subscribing until launch.

Note: the players here and guides, devs.. your all grand guys.. love you all will miss you but.. really.. just damn kids are we serious here about this patch? See ya wed.

MrDDT
06-01-2011, 01:16 PM
Great job on M&B combat swinging.

Desync is still issues. (Not nearly as bad, and can kill people on the run now)
Knives are totally not working.
Attacking with a knife in your left hand from right to left causes the animation of the right hand to attack.

Parry does not stop damage (not even a little).



***More to come as more is tested*****

Axes work very well, huge damage.
Armor is working, not hit boxes.
Dodge works, but still needs major balancing. (You can dodge but doesnt help you in combat other than missing one attack, but people can attack faster than you can dodge).

New animal animations look cool. (Good job on the bears).
Animals are still lack luster (Killed an elder bear is 2 axe hits).

FYI for people testing, there is about a 6 day roll back.

orious13
06-01-2011, 01:20 PM
Eh... It's on the test server for a reason, Creator.

And the servers not online for me?<--- Nevermind read the update.

NorCalGooey
06-01-2011, 01:38 PM
I think the parry should be directional aimed as well. And preferably a parry with the weapons instead of the fore arms.

Haven't got to test this much, but I am really liking the directional swings. Hopefully the hitbox is attached and is equal to the size of the weapon.

In the old combat system, you would have to click on the person to hit their hitbox. Now, if we dont click on the person to swing, but move our reticule onto their hitbox during the swing, will that still do damage like it does in MnB??

Or do you still have to actually land the click on the person to get the hit boxes to connect? Hopefully someone who's done some testing can answer this

Added after 11 minutes:


So i kept hearing from the dev's about this awesome combat system... its so cool, man going to change everything!!! ya know.. like ya know right!

So we patch today... all last week since the ground work for replanting patch which was fail... no new content... patch before that was decay... just like my mood today.

So we get the patch, and test server is up after the site has been fail for hours!!!

I login to see this amazing new combat system, only to find it is the same shit, with the same look and feel, cept knives ( my top skilled weapon is broken ) ah and I knew desync would be there... but... we waited weeks for this god forsaken... directional swing...... directional swing with... some pretty epic bugs.

Its a rage post, I know, its unsightly, and etc. But I really feel sorry for those today who have played this game for over a year... and the reason we and they or anyone else isn't seeing new content is for FAIL... directional swing.

So I am going to rage log for about a week.. catch you all next Wed. if I don't see some new decent content before my first month is up, not going to be subscribing until launch.

Note: the players here and guides, devs.. your all grand guys.. love you all will miss you but.. really.. just damn kids are we serious here about this patch? See ya wed.


I'm sorry, but you didn't really test it. You're hopes were too high, like expecting a graphics rework with it to be an exact MnB replica. Of course the characters and weapons are still going to look the same.

Desync has improved yes

MrDDT
06-01-2011, 01:42 PM
Swing style is just like M&B/Warband for anyone that has played those.

There are some issues with desync.
IE I was behind the target on my screen, yet they saw me in front of them the whole time.

Only directional parry we tested was over top, which did not work at all. Even with weapons in hands.

Combat sounds are lagging, and are not sounding off correctly.
Hit sounds are VERY light.
Lacking any type of display that you are being hit when you are in middle of attacking. (You can be hit right before an attack, and it starts to look like you getting hit, but then you attack and it does that animation so no way for you to know you are hit. Needs blood, or other effects. Sound helps a ton.)

Aiden
06-01-2011, 01:50 PM
Sound and perhaps a screen flash when you get hit...red around the edge or something...

then a contact sound for when you score a hit...something anyway

MrDDT
06-01-2011, 02:25 PM
Very quick video of the test server before it went down.

Naked DDT vs Big black bear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muQBUaK1-j0

ColonelTEE3
06-01-2011, 02:31 PM
Glad to see desync is being improved on, but obviously theres a little more room for improvement.

I agree some way of knowing you're being hit is very needed. A consistent way, at that. Red around the edge of the screen is a good idea, or a little basic blood animation, sounds are important as well.

Good job to devs for making big improvements in the right direction. I think the next priorities for combat on the list would be a consistent and alerting hit-notification (for attacker and defender), and finishing the desync fixes.

MrDDT
06-01-2011, 02:38 PM
Hiding on the test server is 100% useless due to some gamma changes with it.
Is this intended or a bug or what is going on there?

MrDDT
06-01-2011, 02:39 PM
Hiding on the test server is 100% useless due to some gamma changes with it.
Is this intended or a bug or what is going on there?

orious13
06-01-2011, 02:47 PM
I haven't fought anything yet, so I can only comment on the Aesthetics. I like what I see and how air boxing feels.

Animations:
Axes
All hits seem to animate correctly.
Dodge seems to animate correctly.
Parry only looks to animate for the left side of the body.

Clubs
Left Mouse Button Thrust attack spends avatar around all crazy-like. All other hit animations seem to look correct.
Parry only looks to animate for the left side of the body.
Dodge seems to animate correctly.

Picks
Parry is backwards. Moving mouse left then parries right etc.
Left Mouse Button Thrust attack spends avatar around all crazy-like. All other hit animations seem to look correct.
Dodge seems to animate correctly.

Blades
Very little love for blades atm :(.
Parry only 1 side. Dodge correct.
No combat revisions are seen in terms of directional swing or hold on mouse button.

Unarmed
Fist Parry is backwards. Moving mouse left then parries right etc. Everything else looks correct.

treyu
06-01-2011, 02:48 PM
VERY nice changes, it is a very very solid foundation for what is to come with some more tweaks etc. I really liked it.

But I found the camera to be a problem now while in combat, as you have to move the mouse to make directional swings, and that makes the camera also move (for example if I want to do a down to center attack, the camera ends up on top of you which is not good while in combat as I can't see what I have in front of me). I think a fixed camera while in combat mode is the way to go, so that directional swings doesn't make your camera angle change too.

orious13
06-01-2011, 02:50 PM
VERY nice changes, it is a very very solid foundation for what is to come with some more tweaks etc. I really liked it.

But I found the camera to be a problem now while in combat, as you have to move the mouse to make directional swings, and that makes the camera also move (for example if I want to do a down to center attack, the camera ends up on top of you which is not good while in combat as I can't see what I have in front of me). I think a fixed camera while in combat mode is the way to go, so that directional swings doesn't make your camera angle change too.

Just move your camera back. You don't have to keep the camera point to the right or down after you have clicked the mouse button. Click and hold is working atm except for blades. You also don't have to change the camera too crazy at all... only need moderate movement. It's pretty much exactly like MnB except I need higher sensitivity on mouse...

NorCalGooey
06-01-2011, 02:51 PM
VERY nice changes, it is a very very solid foundation for what is to come with some more tweaks etc. I really liked it.

But I found the camera to be a problem now while in combat, as you have to move the mouse to make directional swings, and that makes the camera also move (for example if I want to do a down to center attack, the camera ends up on top of you which is not good while in combat as I can't see what I have in front of me). I think a fixed camera while in combat mode is the way to go, so that directional swings doesn't make your camera angle change too.

Completely agree with this. Maybe it's the fact that this games camera can zoom so far out compared to MnB, that is throwing me off. But this camera and swing system is just like MnB. You have to to flick right to swing right, then as you are holding the swing right down (right click) you h ave to move the mouse back left to get centered on your target again. It makes sense because in real life if you were to attack someone you would turn to either side and put your hips into it, for more power.

Creator
06-01-2011, 04:54 PM
Just me or did part of my feed back just get removed? I had valid points, and wasn't insulting anyone, please put it back... NOW

GuideRaguel
06-01-2011, 04:55 PM
Keep this thread free from Discussions.

This is for feedback only, so that developers can quickly decipher and implement.

The previous posts were moved here - http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/6995-Discussion-from-Dev-zone-Combat-revamp-feedback

Thnak you.

MrDDT
06-01-2011, 04:56 PM
Also, the desync is still an issue, the weapon arc is not factored by weapon types (IE knives are the same range as clubs and axes).
Energy use is 0 for attacking, it needs balancing.
Hit boxes for small people vs large people is a huge imbalance. There is no reason to go tall at all in this game. (I saw this being addressed).

Where are the special moves doing different damage? Thrust is very very hard to hit, yet it does equal damage as swing attacks and over head.

Attack swings should be bigger animations. Hard to tell when you are normally zoomed out so far.
Also being able to change attack swing direction type while holding the attack is a big key. AKA like mount and blade.

The swings directions provide arcs of combat, which are working very well.
Holding attacks does NOT do more damage after more testing, block and dodge do NOT work.

NorCalGooey
06-01-2011, 08:40 PM
Also, the desync is still an issue, the weapon arc is not factored by weapon types (IE knives are the same range as clubs and axes).
Energy use is 0 for attacking, it needs balancing.
Hit boxes for small people vs large people is a huge imbalance. There is no reason to go tall at all in this game. (I saw this being addressed).

Where are the special moves doing different damage? Thrust is very very hard to hit, yet it does equal damage as swing attacks and over head.

Attack swings should be bigger animations. Hard to tell when you are normally zoomed out so far.
Also being able to change attack swing direction type while holding the attack is a big key. AKA like mount and blade.

The swings directions provide arcs of combat, which are working very well.
Holding attacks does NOT do more damage after more testing, block and dodge do NOT work.

100% agree with all of this

MrDDT
06-02-2011, 07:43 AM
Special attack moves. IE snare, stuns, knockdowns, power attacks, area sweeps, lunges, temp disarms, feint, expose, debuffs, etc

Hit sounds, and his displays. IE flash of red when you get hit, when you score a hit, it should show blood. Things like that.

Balance weapons. Axes attack slower doing more damage yet use no energy while attacking, they should use the most, while knives should use the least because you do less damage. Range of weapons should change based on the type of weapon. IE Bats should have a longer range than a blade.

Height weight balance. Taller people are much easier to hit and see in combat/hiding, they should have longer reach, slower attacking and more damage. Fatter people are much easier to hit, they should be slower attacking and moving yet do more damage. Shorter people are harder to hit in combat, they should be faster attacking but have shorter reach do less damage and run slower.
All this would need balancing but it should be done so you dont have midgets running all over the map.

Healing: There should be some combat healing, out of combat healing, and resting way out of combat healing. Things like, potions or food you can eat while in combat that help give you both insta healing and healing regen. Out of combat healing can be used with magics, bandages, herbs, and maybe even building healing. Way out of combat can be done with resting, magics, locations, and buildings.

Swing attacks in game are much to fast for the planned blocking/parry reactions. Slow the swings down about 1/2 the speed.

Allow use to hold an attack but change it while its held. (See mount and blade for this). So you would swing left to right holding the attack. But if you wanted to change you would could change while still holding from right to left (it takes a second) it doesnt force you to let go and pull back again.

Better "health" window. Right now I have to stop moving left click a target and get REALLY close. It should be seen like Darkfall's maybe make the range based on perception. (Darkfall's is where while in combat mode move your target cursor over the target and it will display the health of the target and name of the target right at the location of the target cursor)

Remove the stamina bar being seen, its too much info and shouldnt be seen that well.

Held attacks should do more damage based on how long you hold them. Reason for this, is if you dont want something to be parried/dodged, you attack fast but not a lot of power behind it. If you hold it, it will do more damage but much easier to be dodged or parried.

Parry and dodge stamina use: these need to be balanced so they use very little stamina, and even cause the attacker to lose extra stamina per parried or dodged attack. Dodge should cause less damage loss than parry. Higher your parry/dodge skill more drain on the target when you do these actions. Balanced as needed. Reason for this is because parrying an attack should give more advantages than avoiding damage. Else why parry other than the 1 case of "holding out" for support. Same with dodge.
These actions need to be easier to see, and working better in regards to how they are used. More testing will need to be done BUT right now you dont dodge out of the way, only the top part of your body, so its worthless. Parry doesnt even work lowering damage unless its because of our low parry skills (I would say that test server should have 1000x skill gain speed to test these things).

Dubanka
06-02-2011, 08:07 AM
holding an attackk should 'charge' it...longer it's held the more power it delivers.

attack power should decrease if you're moving...ie you need to be set to deliver a full power swing.

attacks to different parts of the body should have different affects (besides just damage)

weapons should have different affects when hit to different parts of the body.

successful defensive measures (ie. a parry or dodge) shoudl have an adverse affect on the attcker...ie. balance loss for a dodge, big stam hit for a parry

stats need to have some play in combat abilities...ie. str = combat damage, agi = swing speed, etc.

armors need to have str's and weaknesses...heavy armor shouldnt be 'the best'...it shoudl be the best vs. a certain type/range of weaponry...or it shoudl restrict abilities...ie. heavy armor reduces weapon speed.

positional attacks...flanking, attacking form the rear, should have additional benefit/affect.

the list goes on and on.

treyu
06-02-2011, 11:44 AM
Special attack moves. IE snare, stuns, knockdowns, power attacks, area sweeps, lunges, temp disarms, feint, expose, debuffs, etc

Hit sounds, and his displays. IE flash of red when you get hit, when you score a hit, it should show blood. Things like that.

Balance weapons. Axes attack slower doing more damage yet use no energy while attacking, they should use the most, while knives should use the least because you do less damage. Range of weapons should change based on the type of weapon. IE Bats should have a longer range than a blade.

Height weight balance. Taller people are much easier to hit and see in combat/hiding, they should have longer reach, slower attacking and more damage. Fatter people are much easier to hit, they should be slower attacking and moving yet do more damage. Shorter people are harder to hit in combat, they should be faster attacking but have shorter reach do less damage and run slower.
All this would need balancing but it should be done so you dont have midgets running all over the map.

Healing: There should be some combat healing, out of combat healing, and resting way out of combat healing. Things like, potions or food you can eat while in combat that help give you both insta healing and healing regen. Out of combat healing can be used with magics, bandages, herbs, and maybe even building healing. Way out of combat can be done with resting, magics, locations, and buildings.

Swing attacks in game are much to fast for the planned blocking/parry reactions. Slow the swings down about 1/2 the speed.

Allow use to hold an attack but change it while its held. (See mount and blade for this). So you would swing left to right holding the attack. But if you wanted to change you would could change while still holding from right to left (it takes a second) it doesnt force you to let go and pull back again.

Better "health" window. Right now I have to stop moving left click a target and get REALLY close. It should be seen like Darkfall's maybe make the range based on perception. (Darkfall's is where while in combat mode move your target cursor over the target and it will display the health of the target and name of the target right at the location of the target cursor)

Remove the stamina bar being seen, its too much info and shouldnt be seen that well.

Held attacks should do more damage based on how long you hold them. Reason for this, is if you dont want something to be parried/dodged, you attack fast but not a lot of power behind it. If you hold it, it will do more damage but much easier to be dodged or parried.

Parry and dodge stamina use: these need to be balanced so they use very little stamina, and even cause the attacker to lose extra stamina per parried or dodged attack. Dodge should cause less damage loss than parry. Higher your parry/dodge skill more drain on the target when you do these actions. Balanced as needed. Reason for this is because parrying an attack should give more advantages than avoiding damage. Else why parry other than the 1 case of "holding out" for support. Same with dodge.
These actions need to be easier to see, and working better in regards to how they are used. More testing will need to be done BUT right now you dont dodge out of the way, only the top part of your body, so its worthless. Parry doesnt even work lowering damage unless its because of our low parry skills (I would say that test server should have 1000x skill gain speed to test these things).

TOTALLY agree with everything. If this is implemented, we have a winner here. Seriously, this is exactly how the combat will be great and will catter to pvpers and also make some fun pve moments.

MrDDT
06-02-2011, 04:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaElVJITwrk

Link of todays combat issues.
As you can see / hear. Combat is really messed up on how it looks, the person attacked 1 time, and it does many attacks that the defender cant see.

Also people look like they are floating around.

Trenchfoot
06-02-2011, 05:05 PM
Agree with DDT.

Add Shields.
Add Knockdowns/KOs.

The only potential use I see in dodge is possibly against projectiles.

EDIT: Dittos on what Dub said. We desperately need the specific gear relationships. No 'one size kills all'.

Aiden
06-02-2011, 05:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaElVJITwrk

Link of todays combat issues.
As you can see / hear. Combat is really messed up on how it looks, the person attacked 1 time, and it does many attacks that the defender cant see.

Also people look like they are floating around.

Yeah....I experienced this first hand earlier...guy was standing near me...thought were were going to chat about dueling/testing things out...then I twitched around for a bit and was dead....

As they continue to work on desync/lag/etc, this will get better I believe

GuideRaguel
06-02-2011, 06:07 PM
Greetings all,

Any Questions regarding the combat system that is currently being tested, please go here...
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/7003-Combat-Q-amp-A-for-week-6-1

Aiden
06-04-2011, 07:15 AM
With limited testing so far this morning, parrying seems to be MUCH faster and more responsive...

Waiting for some fellow testers to do more and check out the desync, etc

Jadzia
06-04-2011, 08:13 AM
Is it possible to turn global chat on on the test server ? That would help a lot.

GuideRaguel
06-04-2011, 09:48 AM
Is it possible to turn global chat on on the test server ? That would help a lot.

This will be enabled very soon, 1 of the programmers is working on it.

Aiden
06-04-2011, 09:18 PM
With limited testing so far this morning, parrying seems to be MUCH faster and more responsive...

Waiting for some fellow testers to do more and check out the desync, etc

Also, desync *appears* to be much much better today. Combat felt much more like combat... Excellent progress IMHO :)

Vandal
06-04-2011, 10:06 PM
BTW guys, I believe it was Raguel that did say that people will accounts, even though they might not be subbing atm. Can still log on the test server to check out the new combat system.

Make sure to pass it on those your tribemates that might not be playing right now.

Jadzia
06-06-2011, 05:49 PM
I'm experiencing a really odd bug with the new combat. When I click left or right mouse button my character doesn't swing but plays some animation. I've seen 3 different animations so far, it plays one when I log in, and changes to another one after a while.

Videos about it: http://s834.photobucket.com/albums/zz265/Jadzi12/

Xsyon
06-06-2011, 05:55 PM
Thanks Jadzia,

It looks like the female animations haven't been fully finished and uploaded yet. I will check with the animator to see what's still not complete.

Osirrus
06-07-2011, 01:11 PM
ok finally got on the test server when the new combat is working today.

tested with a tribe friend we are both playing from UK with 125-140 Ms ping if that makes any difference )

desync does seem to be improved when fighting someone else, however still get that running on spot animation when your opponent taps a side step. that has gotta go. a couple of other instances where my tribe mate i was with jumped accross my screen, bizarely that wasnt in combat tho


loving the new contols for using weapons. can use nice small sharp directions and i really like that you can now hold a primed attack and release when ready, that really is awesome.

and i like that we now get a visable animation when you hit your opponent.

i couldnt go from primed hold to block without releasing the swing 1st. are you planning to make that possible?

other than that, block seems to work well

however i still really dislike the dodge control and animation.

would you consider letting us side step via a double tap on the A or D (left or right direction double tap)
i would also like to see a proper side step from the start, not just the upper body swerve.
if necassary ony thing that should increase with higher skill is reaction time and distance jumped sideways


also if i block or dodge an attack does it cause a penatly to my opponent? ie a block should stun for a second or two and a dodge should over balance them for a second or two. the affect of this could be lessoned with a higher appropriate weapon skill etc


holding a primed attack should deplete stamina

Great work so far guys. loving what youve achieved in a week or so :)

NorCalGooey
06-07-2011, 03:54 PM
If you switch between left and right click, you can switch block directions really fast.

Not that it matters because blocking is so difficult. I may just have to change my block keybind alt is really difficult to press. But blocking still doesn't seem more effective. Perhaps a block should make it so whoever attacked cannot swing again for twice the amount of time as normal. Therefore giving bigger reward for the block and a chance to counter attack


Has anyone tested to see if blocking (parrying?) correctly stops damage now?

Also, I say we get some sort of base stamina boost and then you can add in multiple different ways to lose stamina (like swinging, parrying)

ColonelTEE3
06-07-2011, 04:28 PM
Im having an issue where if i hold two directional buttons (such as "W+A"), and then hold "alt" (trying to move and block at once), i get that sound in my computer where it makes a repeating bell sound indicating im doing something 'wrong' with my keys, and it just keeps going until i stop moving. I know this isnt a game issue but does anyone know what setting i need to change on my end to remove this sound?

Also, maybe for the just the test server we can all congregate to one area for the explicit purpose of testing more and more people in combat at once, and seeing how the server handles desync issues.

xyberviri
06-07-2011, 05:27 PM
I belive the way your describeing how blocking should be is more how Parrying should be, Ie if you Parry then the attacker would be knocked off balance with there weapon and it should give them a penalty to there next attack Ie I parry you, it stuns your attack for a split second allowing me to counter.

Blocking should just simply be blocking, nothing fancy just a way to protect your self.

orious13
06-07-2011, 10:04 PM
On day one in February (before the launch), I re-binded dodge and parry to R and F. Why on earth would people keep it as alt etc. :). Just seems like... self-inflicted pain. :P.


I belive the way your describeing how blocking should be is more how Parrying should be, Ie if you Parry then the attacker would be knocked off balance with there weapon and it should give them a penalty to there next attack Ie I parry you, it stuns your attack for a split second allowing me to counter.

Blocking should just simply be blocking, nothing fancy just a way to protect your self.

Blocking= parrying at the moment. You can technically parry with a shield so just think of all of it as being parry.