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VeryWiiTee
06-07-2011, 06:17 AM
A lot of people are screaming for new content. I'm still incredibly curious.
What. Name the content that this game is missing, that other games have.

It got teh quests, it got the mobs, it got the crafting and the fighting. The only thing it is actually missing is the major quest hubs and the dungeons, but as far as I've understood, then that is our job to produce in this world. So really.

Is it just more options to the content already there?
Do you lack imagination to create the content?
Or can you name the content missing?
Or try at least to mention the core content missing.

I'm curious, because it has been one of the most repeated sentences: "When does more content come/when will you add more content etc"

So?

Have fun killing each other xD.

NorCalGooey
06-07-2011, 06:30 AM
It certainly lacks a lot of things and that is evident. All I do is train my skills so I can level up and have more hit points or I work on the city. Both are becoming less and less fun each day without any player conflict

VeryWiiTee
06-07-2011, 06:41 AM
NAME the things.. What is missing, if you can throw the word content around, you can certainly put a name tag on what this 'content' is.

'Cos as I see it, your example isn't different from other games.. Not really, well most can't build their city so that is different. All you do as a crafter is to craft all day levelling up, not necessarily leaving the safety of the town to get materials or likewise as you can just buy that from the local Auction House. Why is it bad in Xsyon then, why is that a lack of content?

Jadzia
06-07-2011, 07:05 AM
I miss a working economy and purpose to build things. Whenever I try to buy something and ask for the price I get 'well I don't really know what I need...actually you can get that stuff for free'. This is very nice in a way, it shows how helpful and kind most of the players are and makes me happy, but at the same time it shows that nothing has a price and hard to figure out one. This makes crafting kinda useless too, there is no trading between tribes since tribes are usually self-sufficient.

There is no reason to build walls and buildings. I admire players' dedication to build great structures, but they are no doubt useless and pointless. As a solo player I enjoy my safe zone, and I don't build any wall (terraformed or built) since it only makes it harder to run back to safety in case I'm chased. I don't build tents since they do nothing.

There is PvE (somewhere) but very hard to find an animal, and I can't fight at all due to desync. Animals keep teleporting away when I try to hit them :p

MrDDT
06-07-2011, 07:07 AM
Content for me are things like.

More animals, stronger animals, ones that takes a group of people to kill. AI is really bad in game right now.
More skills like cooking and other things.
Things on ways to heal yourself
Bonuses to building a town, or tribe land faster healing, bonuses to crafting, rare resources to protect.
Rare resources and local resources.
Pack animals, carts and other ways to export these rare resources for trading.
New combat styles, special moves, special attacks.
New weapon types like polearms and staves, and archery.
Magic.
Open up the map (really I dont think this is needed yet because of the 50 people currently playing isnt much).

Thats just some content.

unclean666
06-07-2011, 07:09 AM
I think its more about the features that are missing not sure if people consider it the same thing.Taming,cooking,arch needs more recipes.

People are hung up on the whole conflict part but this is prelude so that comes later IMA.It could realy use metal works.Then a whole bunch of small tweaks.

Other then that cant really think of anything but im fine with the game so.

Oh people really want zombies!

Plague
06-07-2011, 07:23 AM
Working economy base. Too many resources and nothing has real value
All items have same status.
Combat (its as if there is none atm)
Hunt
Gates

Vandal
06-07-2011, 07:36 AM
I would like to see more purpose for combat. Right now, it's pretty much just predators and preys. But the fact that you can't even loot their inventory makes it pointless.

I would like to see more detail in crafting. Right now, crafting is very dry and also, we are all waiting on the skill cap to kick in. So what am I suppose to do meanwhile? Even though I max out every single craft skills, I wil eventually lose a lot of the work I put in because of the cap? That's just stupid.

I don't really care about NPC questing. Tribe questing is... unnecessary. If you communicate, everyone knows what they have to do.

I want the wars to be eligible. So that we can conquer each other for a purpose, either it be territories or ressources.

I've been crafting the same weapon over 5000 times. If that doesn't scream lack of content, I dont know what does.

Instead of asking for what kind of content we want, let's talk about what kind of content we have.

- We have a poor combat system atm.
- We can build a city, all depending of the amount of dedication you put in and how big you make it, doesn't take that long.
- We have mindnumbing crafting.
- We have some roaming animals that takes me 2 hits to kill.

That's pretty much it that I can think of.

Dubanka
06-07-2011, 07:48 AM
A lot of people are screaming for new content. I'm still incredibly curious.
What. Name the content that this game is missing, that other games have.

It got teh quests, it got the mobs, it got the crafting and the fighting. The only thing it is actually missing is the major quest hubs and the dungeons, but as far as I've understood, then that is our job to produce in this world. So really.

Is it just more options to the content already there?
Do you lack imagination to create the content?
Or can you name the content missing?
Or try at least to mention the core content missing.

I'm curious, because it has been one of the most repeated sentences: "When does more content come/when will you add more content etc"

So?

Have fun killing each other xD.

The 'missing content' is not some silver bullet set of items on a to-do list. The missing content is more the fabric that links everything together.

1. Combat. Was fubar. Devs are making strides to unscrew it. Great. This is a mechanics correction, not a content creation. But if they get this done correctly, it's a pretty huge step. Combat is merely a means to an end, not the end itself. Combat settles conflict, but the conflict itself should be primarily driven by political and economic concerns.

2. Crafting. You craft to craft. While there is a lot of 'content' here, it's pretty pointless because there is really very little value associated with it. Because...

3. Resources. The world is oversaturated with resources. There is no rarity, thus there is no value. Without value there is no economy. There is very little we can't get for ourselves. There is very little reason to engage in trade, or warfare, to obtain resources.

4. Skills. Everyone can be everything, so there is no value on the individual crafter. IF i want to be something, i just have to grind it...this wouldnt be that bad except, i suffer no consequence for doing this. Game design where everyone can be everything is...bad design...If everyone can be a master crafter, on everything...meh. bad.

5. Accountability. Even if everything stated previously is addressed to a satisfactory degree, it's all pointless if there is not some degree of player accountability. The ability too hold a player accountable for their actions is paramount to the larger game. Accountability is the glue that holds the pieces together...you can't have politics without it. Your economy will stagnate without it (if you control/monopolize a resource 'we' need to be able to make a decision if we want to tolerate that...which in large part will be dictated by the controllers actions). Very simply, without accountability, every gameplay item is really artificial...the moment you make players accountable for each and every action is when you start to see real drama unfold, as players seek to protect and expand their interests.

so while the game is a sandbox [insert meaning], and yes, the players ultimately should determine what happens in it, the game design should assist by channeling players to some type of crucible that serves to ignite gameplay.

Mactavendish
06-07-2011, 07:56 AM
I'm with you on this one VeryWiiTee.

This IS a sandbox game. WE make part of the content, that's the way it's designed, and was fully explained from the start.

There are so many things I can do here that I cannot do in any other game...

I can design and put up my own quests. I don't have to depend on pre-made one that I would truly get bored with.
I can terraform our area and even place roads out to needed resources. What other game gives you this? And please don't mention minecraft, as that game is more a childs game in my mind with its huge blocks you can modify.
I have to search for animals, which is good since I love to explore. Some of the animal AI is quite surprising, like deer that will keep trying to avoid you until cornered.

and a ton of things I won't mention because the mindless will just use them to justify blindness.

If you think that there is NO conflict, then just try and keep the tree in your area safe from roving loggers.

Besides, why MUST there be constant conflict? To me the reason is that folks want it easy and are hiding behind the concept of conflict. If there is "conflict" ( I.E. Reason to fight each other ) then they don't have to think very much. "uh, bad man over there me bash'um... now world safe."

I will agree that there is way more resources than the current population needs.

I maintain that what we really need... are ... well, NEEDS Not conflicts per say.

Introduce something we need to make progress, rare resource, make food or clothing mean something so we NEED to eat and wear clothes, have zombies raid camps and require us to build fortifications... you get the picture

VeryWiiTee
06-07-2011, 08:15 AM
See now this was awesome!

Jadzia. I always require pay from my stuff. The working economy is up to us to create. The problem, I think, are players. Who knows how to barter with items. How do you set the price with different resources at hand.. Economy is more our own doing. But adding a localized action house might get it started. You can expand your auction house by 'buying/collecting materials' for upgrades to the auction house (so that the auction house influence extends over more land - allowing it to contact new auction houses) etc.

Except for vandal that completely missed the point.
- I crafted the same kind of items thousands of times in WoW, Vanguard, EQ, Aion and I could keep on going for the purpose of levelling too, which is why I take it you kept using the same weapon recipe.
- Loot an animal of what items?.. Really.. I mean.. Really.. I'm sure (I know) it is mentioned somewhere what you see is most likely what you can loot.
- It isn't a discussion on what sucks or not.

Content for me are things like.

I love this, though I'd divert it into content/more options

More animals, stronger animals, ones that takes a group of people to kill. AI is really bad in game right now.
More skills like cooking and other things.
Things on ways to heal yourself
Bonuses to building a town, or tribe land faster healing, bonuses to crafting, rare resources to protect.
Rare resources and local resources.
Pack animals, carts and other ways to export these rare resources for trading.
New combat styles, special moves, special attacks.
New weapon types like polearms and staves, and archery.
Magic.
Open up the map (really I dont think this is needed yet because of the 50 people currently playing isnt much).

Thats just some content. Content:
More animals
More skills like cooking and other things (animal training ;), fire building?)
Things on ways to heal yourself
Rare resources to protect.
Pack animals, carts and other ways to export these rare resources for trading.
Magic.
Open up the map/New zones (I suspect)

More options: (It is still content, but more of addition to existing content already)
stronger animals, ones that takes a group of people to kill. (AI is really bad in game right now.)
Bonuses to building a town, or tribe land
bonuses to crafting,
Faster healing
New combat styles, special moves, special attacks.
New weapon types like polearms and staves, and archery.

Added after 17 minutes:


The 'missing content' is not some silver bullet set of items on a to-do list. The missing content is more the fabric that links everything together.

1. Combat. Was fubar. Devs are making strides to unscrew it. Great. This is a mechanics correction, not a content creation. But if they get this done correctly, it's a pretty huge step. Combat is merely a means to an end, not the end itself. Combat settles conflict, but the conflict itself should be primarily driven by political and economic concerns.

2. Crafting. You craft to craft. While there is a lot of 'content' here, it's pretty pointless because there is really very little value associated with it. Because...

3. Resources. The world is oversaturated with resources. There is no rarity, thus there is no value. Without value there is no economy. There is very little we can't get for ourselves. There is very little reason to engage in trade, or warfare, to obtain resources.

4. Skills. Everyone can be everything, so there is no value on the individual crafter. IF i want to be something, i just have to grind it...this wouldnt be that bad except, i suffer no consequence for doing this. Game design where everyone can be everything is...bad design...If everyone can be a master crafter, on everything...meh. bad.

5. Accountability. Even if everything stated previously is addressed to a satisfactory degree, it's all pointless if there is not some degree of player accountability. The ability too hold a player accountable for their actions is paramount to the larger game. Accountability is the glue that holds the pieces together...you can't have politics without it. Your economy will stagnate without it (if you control/monopolize a resource 'we' need to be able to make a decision if we want to tolerate that...which in large part will be dictated by the controllers actions). Very simply, without accountability, every gameplay item is really artificial...the moment you make players accountable for each and every action is when you start to see real drama unfold, as players seek to protect and expand their interests.

so while the game is a sandbox [insert meaning], and yes, the players ultimately should determine what happens in it, the game design should assist by channeling players to some type of crucible that serves to ignite gameplay.

Sandbox, to shape and create in an enviroment that is filled with sand. Yay!

On to the real deal. So what you want are tweaks to the already in-place systems. Not more content. That is how I read it.
Again, some of it is more up to the player than it is to the dev team. Economy is our responsibility. That you don't price your wares. Neat, you can give them for free and I'll gladly sell it to others for items I can't be bothered to go look for (which is the deal in this system so long a soft cap isn't in yet).

Soft skill cap. I view it as content 'cos without it we can all be the best scavengers, foragers and crafters making high quality stuff that no one needs as all can do it. See. The problem is less of the economy and more of a 'you need to be able to reduce the amount of people doing a specific thing', doing that will create a demand/supply situation all of the sudden.

Uhm.. Have you actually been able to hold a single player accountable for stuff in a game world?.. I haven't and it would take the entire server to punish another player.. Hardly a feat that is going to happen..

Conflict will happen regardless of what we do.. It is human nature and I'm confident we don't even need rare resources to get into a fight.. A mere scrapyard might be enough.. (well it was for LA :))

Xsyon
06-07-2011, 08:20 AM
Thanks for this thread!

I've been having similar discussions with the team all night. What 'content' I think we need most is balance and improvements that will give meaning and use to what's already in game. Things like distributing resources, improving recipes and adding currency can be done fairly quickly.

For example something I was discussing with one of the artists regarding recipes: We go through all armor recipes and make sure they all have at least one interchangeable component. If you use standard components you get standard armor. Rare components could give bonuses to stats or armor properties.

We do have a lot of systems, like the quest system, that can be improved so that players create more 'content' for the game. My main goal is to provide the tools and systems, so that players create the interactions.

VeryWiiTee
06-07-2011, 08:30 AM
Oh no problem.. I was just tired of the 'NEED MOAR CONTENT' without actually adding what this content might be.. Other than a meh phrase you could throw into the public if not satisfied.
Do you need it listed for a better overview of what we think might help on the content area?

MrDDT
06-07-2011, 08:34 AM
Thanks for this thread!

I've been having similar discussions with the team all night. What 'content' I think we need most is balance and improvements that will give meaning and use to what's already in game. Things like distributing resources, improving recipes and adding currency can be done fairly quickly.

For example something I was discussing with one of the artists regarding recipes: We go through all armor recipes and make sure they all have at least one interchangeable component. If you use standard components you get standard armor. Rare components could give bonuses to stats or armor properties.

We do have a lot of systems, like the quest system, that can be improved so that players create more 'content' for the game. My main goal is to provide the tools and systems, so that players create the interactions.

Thanks Xsyon.

Im loving the idea with the armor, I think many things can be done like that when adding a few rare resources. Also making some of these resources local to regions would help greatly. So right now the north has a lot of animals compared to the south, thats kinda like a local resource. But the north doesnt need anything from the south.
Also without exporting system (like carts, packmules or sleds) its hard to even start any kinda of trading.

Xsyon
06-07-2011, 08:34 AM
Do you need it listed for a better overview of what we think might help on the content area?

Yes. We will move this thread to the Developer Zone. Along with the 5 small fixes thread it can give me ideas on things I can focus on this month while the other coders work primarily on combat and server improvements.

Dubanka
06-07-2011, 08:35 AM
Added after 17 minutes:

Sandbox, to shape and create in an enviroment that is filled with sand. Yay!

On to the real deal. So what you want are tweaks to the already in-place systems. Not more content. That is how I read it.
Again, some of it is more up to the player than it is to the dev team. Economy is our responsibility. That you don't price your wares. Neat, you can give them for free and I'll gladly sell it to others for items I can't be bothered to go look for (which is the deal in this system so long a soft cap isn't in yet).

Soft skill cap. I view it as content 'cos without it we can all be the best scavengers, foragers and crafters making high quality stuff that no one needs as all can do it. See. The problem is less of the economy and more of a 'you need to be able to reduce the amount of people doing a specific thing', doing that will create a demand/supply situation all of the sudden.

Uhm.. Have you actually been able to hold a single player accountable for stuff in a game world?.. I haven't and it would take the entire server to punish another player.. Hardly a feat that is going to happen..

Conflict will happen regardless of what we do.. It is human nature and I'm confident we don't even need rare resources to get into a fight.. A mere scrapyard might be enough.. (well it was for LA :))

sandbox def...i'm not gonna bite :p

Your point on the economy is just wrong :) You can sell your wares, but there is no reason for a player to 'buy' them...are rather there is no necessity, since given the proper time and motivation, (s)he can create the exact same product as you're trying to sell...without having to suffer a trade off. I mean I am all for a system that allows a player to say, 'screw you, ill make it myself rather than be robbed by you...' but at some point the character should have to either a) not be able to advance a skill further sacrificing something else or b) be capped at a value for 'non primary' skill...ie. i can get 3 skills to 100, 2 to 75, 1 to 50, and the highest any other can get to is 25. An economy is driven by scarcity of resources and, by the availability of those who can put those resources to use.

the single player thing...If a douche moves in next door, and starts cutting down all my trees, attacking me whenever i go out to do something, well, he needs to be able to be held accountable for those actions. I mean i only want to to pvp when I want to right :) This gets into the asset destruction/seige warfare/ territorial control discussion.

VeryWiiTee
06-07-2011, 08:59 AM
The problem is you can be everything.
A soft skill cap would still stop it. Unless you are hardcore, and I can't be bothered about them. They will always reach the end goal before anyone else and complain and can do most everything.
An aggressive soft skill cap would at least be a solution to some of the economy problem. It would also add to the realism. I can be very good at this, but when I've learned what I can without it degrading (the knowledge). Then I try to learn new stuff, this will put aside the old stuff. Meaning a) I can either choose this new path, seeing my other skills starting to decay faster and faster as I learn the new path only being able to retain those I still keep using frequently or b) I can stay with the old skills and stop the new skill, therefore not being very good at it but I retain my old ones. Both will affect the end product, people will need to start trading. If you want to survive the stronger animals (due to age, experience etc) you need better gear, since you focus woodworking, masonry and toolcrafting you can't make armor worth a damn, so you can't fight the stronger animals.
Rare resources are scarce, but common resources are grinded endlessly in every game, what makes the economy works are valuta sinks, we don't have these.
The only way of limiting it is by limiting the people that can get the resources and craft the items through a soft skill cap. It doesn't makes sense with a hard skill cap as you propose. (which is being worked on as I understand) and by limiting the amount of uses an item can have, which is present.

MrDDT
06-07-2011, 09:28 AM
This is what is needed IMO to make the system work correctly.

1)Softcap (Xsyon says its in but its way to high)
2)Rare resources (There are some of them in the game but still lacking, flint, chalk, quarts etc). Right now they make no real impact on crafting.
3)Local resources there is really no resources that are local to one area over another.
4)Exporting system, there is no way to export any goods because how hard it is to carry goods. You get overweight and cant move much at all. Wagons, carts, packmules etc
5)Decay for items stock piled not just used
6)Conflict, allowing tribes to war each other for rare resources, pushing a neighbor out of an area you are in or want to be in etc.
7)Recipes need to be WAY more rare I shouldnt have every tool recipe even though Im at master toolcrafter. Recipes shouldnt be gained through training it should be gained through trade/scaving.


All of this isnt just something one or two items can be put in and make it work. It needs to have all these. They are no brainers.
#6 is the one people are going to be most upset with, but I think if they do it in a way with the mist being pushed back and those areas are these rare resources that are local to those areas, while allowing any totem in that area to be "contested" for it will allow people to build there at a risk but also at a great reward.
Right now the plans are to push back the NW area of the mist, well what if they made that rare resource #1 which allowed special qualities. Maybe like added to a recipe it will increase the HP of the wearer (for armor / weapons) or for tools or other items it could slow decay usage. Or maybe take less energy while being used.
That area would be highly contested for as this rare resource #1 would be highly fought for and wanted.

In doing this type of thing most of the trading would be done around the lake, where its more safe.

Mactavendish
06-07-2011, 09:38 AM
One definition says:

"An economy consists of the economic system of a country or other area, the labor, capital and land resources, and the economic agents that socially participate in the production, exchange, distribution, and consumption of goods and services of that area."

From this we see that there are 3 main parts to a functioning economy.

1. Production.
In Xsyon, this is represented by anything we can craft, scavenge, forage, or fish. The real issue here is that although it take time, it does not take much time due to the over abundance of resources. This is an issue, because if getting basic resources is too tedious or takes to long players will just get bored and look for something more fun to do. Also, we all have the same resources. there is nothing rare and nothing we cannot get where we are. We curently over produce to such a degree that nothing have value...

2. Distribution.
This is represented here by trading and the quest system on a totem. There is NO way to easily distribute resources or service in Xsyon. For that matter, what services could I even offer that any player could not already do for themselves? This part of the economy has at best been an after thought as it appears that it was not planned for in advance.

3. Consumption.
Here is part that needs the most work as both other parts depend on it. With over abundance, we have no need to consume to the point of need. We also have no need to distribute anything since nobody has anything we need that we cannot get our selves. If your plumming backs up you call a plummer because you NEED to use the bathroom. We have NO needs. We don't need to do anything at all. Even eating and drinking here is not really necessary. You get very skinny looking and tire our a bit faster, but not enough to prevent you from doing anything at all.

So I agree with the other posters that we have no economy. To fix it requires the dev's to take a few risks.

It is such a gamble to make big changes. Piss off enough of your players and you game could fold. Please the wrong group and you change the dynamics of the entire game and could lose the vision you had for it.

BUT...

It may be necessary. So, what would I do?

1. Reduce the junk piles by 80%.
2. Introduce roaming NPC's that can either destroy gathered resources or fortifications. ( zombies maybe? depending on players to do this defines the types of player that will be playing here
... if you really want MO/DF tpye of players then thats what you will get. if you want more intelegent player you need to go further.)
3. DO NOT introduce currency, let the players barter and trade for the time being.
4. Introduce a water bottle and a 100 slot backpack, but make eating and drinking have real effects like you temporarly get weak from not eating and dizzy from not drinking.
5. Introduce something we all MUST have to survive, and make it rare or hard enough to get that players simply have to interact. for instance salt. With salt our fish dont decay with out salt they do, without salt we get thirsty faster with salt we last longer without water. Maybe salt weeds near marshy areas that can be crafted into rock salt that can be traded.
6. think of things that to some degree force players to interact. Maybe make general chat be 1 zone only.

Jadzia
06-07-2011, 09:49 AM
Right now the plans are to push back the NW area of the mist, well what if they made that rare resource #1 which allowed special qualities. Maybe like added to a recipe it will increase the HP of the wearer (for armor / weapons) or for tools or other items it could slow decay usage. Or maybe take less energy while being used.
That area would be highly contested for as this rare resource #1 would be highly fought for and wanted.

I agree that rare resources are needed but I hope they won't make the new land a contested area. The starting area (the one we have now) is crowded, not with players but with abandoned totems, and since they don't decay and won't decay for a while there are no good free spots out there.

I hope the next land extension will be a contested area not the first one.

MrDDT
06-07-2011, 10:04 AM
I agree that rare resources are needed but I hope they won't make the new land a contested area. The starting area (the one we have now) is crowded, not with players but with abandoned totems, and since they don't decay and won't decay for a while there are no good free spots out there.

I hope the next land extension will be a contested area not the first one.


It will be the same way for the new areas also, it will just take a couple of months again. They should just put in totem decay and be done with it.
Plus there are many areas in the current map where people can build where people are not near.

We need contested areas much more than we need more NON contested safe areas. I dont know why you always want more and more and more. I see no reason to push back the release of contested areas. You have your safe areas its pretty big, yet you want MORE area before we can have contested area? I dont get.
We need contested areas that's what people are saying in this thread why would you want more safe zones? Clearly safe zones is not making people play the game.

Contested areas, and things to fight for is what is majorly needed. Not more of what we already have.

Jadzia
06-07-2011, 10:39 AM
It will be the same way for the new areas also, it will just take a couple of months again. They should just put in totem decay and be done with it.
Plus there are many areas in the current map where people can build where people are not near.

We need contested areas much more than we need more NON contested safe areas. I dont know why you always want more and more and more. I see no reason to push back the release of contested areas. You have your safe areas its pretty big, yet you want MORE area before we can have contested area? I dont get.
We need contested areas that's what people are saying in this thread why would you want more safe zones? Clearly safe zones is not making people play the game.

Contested areas, and things to fight for is what is majorly needed. Not more of what we already have.

I don't want 'more' safe areas, its not even possible, since everyone can only have one, his/her own tribe zone.
Contested areas are the areas where tribe zones (not expansion totems) are not safe and can be taken over, aka tribe war. Tribe wars won't be in for a long while, so it wouldn't make sense to dedicate a huge area for that while its simply can't happen. There will be a lot of time to create new areas for contest when combat is fixed and while tribe war system is under development.

There is no sense in opening lands up for contest while the contest system itself is not in game.

Vandal
06-07-2011, 10:43 AM
Tribe wars has to happen everywhere at once and not in a specific area.

We spent hundred of hours terraforming our land and preparing it for tribe wars. We are not going to let it go to waste and move to a new area. That wouldn't make any sense.
So many people would simply quit the game if that was the case (me included).

Jadzia
06-07-2011, 11:06 AM
Tribe wars has to happen everywhere at once and not in a specific area.

We spent hundred of hours terraforming our land and preparing it for tribe wars. We are not going to let it go to waste and move to a new area. That wouldn't make any sense.
So many people would simply quit the game if that was the case (me included).

Oh I didn't mean that. Tribe wars will happen everywhere if a tribe decide to be a warring one. Xsyon said in an old update that there will be areas which will be up for contest more than the normal ones, as in no one can place a totem with safe zone there. That was what I referred to.

- Some expansion zones being open to more conquest without safe zones, while in others tribes would retain the choice to war or not.

Vandal
06-07-2011, 11:16 AM
Ah! Thank you for clearing that out.

Another issue I was thinking about regarding the skill cap.

So what happen when the devs put in more craft skills? You will need to give something up in order to start being a master on a new one?
To me, it seems like it's going to be totally pointless to spend sooooooo much time grinding skills out when eventually you will simply lose them all.

We need to figure something out that would make it perfect.
Personally, I would opt for something like everyone can be master in anything, ALTHOUGH it would take 10 times more effort to reach 100 than it does right now and only the ones that are truly dedicated to that profession would achieve.

Sure that over time, people might have multiple ones at 100 but they would have earned it through time and efforts, and therefore would be deserved.

MrDDT
06-07-2011, 11:26 AM
I don't want 'more' safe areas, its not even possible, since everyone can only have one, his/her own tribe zone.
Contested areas are the areas where tribe zones (not expansion totems) are not safe and can be taken over, aka tribe war. Tribe wars won't be in for a long while, so it wouldn't make sense to dedicate a huge area for that while its simply can't happen. There will be a lot of time to create new areas for contest when combat is fixed and while tribe war system is under development.

There is no sense in opening lands up for contest while the contest system itself is not in game.

You have no idea if the contest system is working or not, who says it has to be contest where you take over totems at all. How about just make it so there isnt safe areas in it?

You say you dont want more safe areas but then you just asked for more area for safe totems, because you dont want this area to be contested. A little mixed up in what you are saying?
You dont know when tribe wars will be in. Xsyon does. Again tribe wars does not have to be some huge plan to be put into place, it can simply be 2 tribes that war each other.

There will be a lot of time for you to build in your safe area too once the in active totems are removed.
Right now we (as you can see by this thread) want contested areas with rare local resources. Not more safe totems where people have everything can do everything and want nothing.



Oh I didn't mean that. Tribe wars will happen everywhere if a tribe decide to be a warring one. Xsyon said in an old update that there will be areas which will be up for contest more than the normal ones, as in no one can place a totem with safe zone there. That was what I referred to.


Yes that's what Im talking about also. Dont forget just because Xsyon says something doesnt mean its always going to be put in like that either. He also said that once prelude is over he would remove safe areas.


Ah! Thank you for clearing that out.

Another issue I was thinking about regarding the skill cap.

So what happen when the devs put in more craft skills? You will need to give something up in order to start being a master on a new one?
To me, it seems like it's going to be totally pointless to spend sooooooo much time grinding skills out when eventually you will simply lose them all.

We need to figure something out that would make it perfect.
Personally, I would opt for something like everyone can be master in anything, ALTHOUGH it would take 10 times more effort to reach 100 than it does right now and only the ones that are truly dedicated to that profession would achieve.

Sure that over time, people might have multiple ones at 100 but they would have earned it through time and efforts, and therefore would be deserved.

I think once soft cap is in, people will focus on the skills they want to keep.
Like you might want to be a weaponcrafter with a little in scaving, and farming.
While someone like me might want to be full combat, with a little logging.
Instead of being everything in the game.
Sure you will lose some of the hard earned skills you have now, but soft cap was always planned.

Jadzia
06-07-2011, 11:40 AM
MrDDT, there is no contest system in game right now. Contest as in fighting over tribe areas, expanded or not. You can't debate that.

We need new land now because the old one is crowded. Combat is not fixed yet, tribe war is not in, expansion totems are not in. If you want tribe areas not to be safe the easy fix would be to allow tribes to switch off their safe zone, you don't need a huge land for that.

The best solution would be for now to add new land with rare resources, but don't allow players to place totem on them, or even close to them. That way the resources can create PvP hubs even if the tribe war system is not implemented.

MrDDT
06-07-2011, 12:05 PM
MrDDT, there is no contest system in game right now. Contest as in fighting over tribe areas, expanded or not. You can't debate that.

We need new land now because the old one is crowded. Combat is not fixed yet, tribe war is not in, expansion totems are not in. If you want tribe areas not to be safe the easy fix would be to allow tribes to switch off their safe zone, you don't need a huge land for that.

The best solution would be for now to add new land with rare resources, but don't allow players to place totem on them, or even close to them. That way the resources can create PvP hubs even if the tribe war system is not implemented.


Thats not going to fix anything have you been reading this thread?
Lets put more resources that have no meaning? Clearly not, there shouldnt be any rare resources where safe totems are period.

Resources where safe totems are will create 0 pvp just like you have now. Do you see people fighting over chalk? I dont mostly 2 things 1)Safe areas and 2) No reason because everyone can have everything.

You talk about "too crowed" I have no idea what game you are playing but this game is not crowed at all. Its lacking players BIG time.

You are right there is no contested areas right now, which is why there is no fighting. Which is WHY the contested areas need to be put in, its only one of the major things missing in this game. So yes I can debate that. You made my point. There is NO contested areas right now, thus why they need to add it.

I dont know how you get to the "best solution" is to add new safe totem areas. Yes rare resources, that are CONTESTED. Which would make things a reason to build protect destroy attack control etc.

Why would you not want players to place a totem over rare resources? It sounds like a great way to spark PVP. I think you mean dont allow players to place a SAFE totem over it.
Live in your safe totem area, stop trying to break the game for the people that know what is going on.

More safe areas, geez. Clearly that's what the game needs MORE safe areas, because this one we have now (all we have now) is just FULL of people just wanting MORE safe areas.


Great so right now I've got over 10 skills at 100 and that's all going to go to waste. /cheers

This game is becoming more ridiculous to put up with, until they set things in stone, we are just bound to get fucked at some point.


First its not going to waste. They will decay but doesnt mean you cant make stuff using those skills.
Second is I have no idea why you didnt know they were going to have a softcap its on the features page, and been said MANY times.

Dubanka
06-07-2011, 12:54 PM
a regional resource system would be cool because it would promote trade and conflict across the zones...the caveat is, there would have to be a point, ie. i need [resource] to make [armor variant] and i want that armor because it does [cool shit] that the [other armor styles] don't do.

also a change to the crafting system that might be beneficial...2 layers of crafting, the skill, and the item type. This adds diversity and specialization to character production.

inhabit
06-07-2011, 01:09 PM
Any of you guys played Perpetuum?
It basically had 6 islands 3alpha (safe no PvP unless u flagged yourself for it) and 3 beta (PvP flagged automatically) now i believe they have 12 islands but anyway.
On alpha islands you had resourses to mine/harvest but in much lower quantities, one day you would mine a spot and next day or so if u went back it could potentially have gone and it would regenerate over time not necesseraly in the same spot. On beta you had same materials but in much larger quantities but also special resourses only found on beta. all these were used to build robots, weapons, ammo etc etc
I think something similar to this would work quite well obviously adapted to suit this game slightly. Corporations could also base themselves on beta island in a terminal but could be attacked by other corps (at a set period) where both would fight it out and the terminal would be up for grabs.

VeryWiiTee
06-07-2011, 02:17 PM
Enforcer Dezgard!

Can you two keep it civilized!?.. I know I hardly can but anyway..

There is no need for a system. Just the simple action of letting an opposing force destroy the expansion totem. (We're not talking log destruction or stump destruction. We're talking hit point destruction.) It is just a matter of adding hitpoints to an object.
And I got to agree with MrDDT. Combat is dead because there is no incentive to fight over resources that are common. We need some resources that gives better crafted items, but also are scarce in an area where totems can be destroyed and control of the area fought for. That alone would add quite a lot of content to the game for people -not- seeking to craft/build/terraform through the entire game.

Book
06-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Interesting thread. Content? hmm.

Didn't get a chance to read every word, skimmed a lot, so sorry if some of this is repetitive.
I'll throw a big ole' IMHO out now so I don't have to repeat it later.

Revenants: Didn't use to like the idea. I thought it was kind of meh, overdone in an apocalypse context. Having seen the screenshots, I like how they're represented though. To me, I don't much enjoy individualized PvP so something like revenants would give a chance for PvE combat with maybe a small loot. This is different than animals, as I would rather fight animals just as self-defense or a resource need rather than fulfilling a wish to fight something.

Large-scale, cooperative PvP: This can't really be just "created", but it's the kind of PvP I was looking forward to when I bought the game. Again, I don't like the individualized PvP at all. Maybe the occasional robber or something, I'll deal with that, but I get more excited about being a peon in an army and the thrill of a well executed battle plan.
That's why I enjoy games like BC2, I'm always in a squad, like support roles or spotting for my team. In WoW PvP (take it easy, just to make a point), same idea, I like it best when a team is working together.
People who know more about developing than I do will have input on how to make it happen. I'm just saying that's what I like.

New Lands? I would personally rather see totem decay on the current land, even rapid decay. I'm not currently active which means I would likely lose my stuff, but I'm ok with that. I think it's better for the game to have that happen than to use the land expansion prematurely. Save that for when more is polished and the population truly calls for expansion. Don't expand until you have the resources to start working on the next expansion.

Survival: This is a big one for me. It may sound like SimWorld to some, sorry, just stating my opinion without wanting to knock yours.
The need for Comfort (shelter, heat, etc.), Thirst, Hunger, etc. was a huge draw for me from the beginning. Even if it doesn't have a tremendous effect at the moment, I always used to take care of those needs from a make-believe standpoint. The content is already there, just not necessarily on, and is one part of this world I like. It's not a buff, it doesn't add temporary stats, it's a survival simulation and I take that with me when going on a hike. Since this game, I look for water sources, where I'd build a lean-to, evidence of animals, etc. I like that a lot. More focus on individual survival would be great. Kind of a Jeremiah Johnson Simulation.

Make it worthwhile to know this:
http://www.equipped.org/fm21-76.htm

ps. I'd like to thank Dub for the editorial idea of bold titles.

Jadzia
06-07-2011, 04:12 PM
Can you two keep it civilized!?.. I know I hardly can but anyway..

There is no need for a system. Just the simple action of letting an opposing force destroy the expansion totem. (We're not talking log destruction or stump destruction. We're talking hit point destruction.) It is just a matter of adding hitpoints to an object.
And I got to agree with MrDDT. Combat is dead because there is no incentive to fight over resources that are common. We need some resources that gives better crafted items, but also are scarce in an area where totems can be destroyed and control of the area fought for. That alone would add quite a lot of content to the game for people -not- seeking to craft/build/terraform through the entire game.

I agree that we need rare resources. And we need areas where totems can be destroyed....WHEN totems can be destroyed. Till then dedicating an area to destroyable totems (while they are not even in game ) is a waste.

I really don't believe it would be so simple as to add hitpoints to totems. Perhaps that would work for expansion totems but not for tribe totems. There are no gates in game, tribes wouldn't be able to protect their area 24/7. The system needs a lot of balancing and planning.

Thats why I said that they should add rare resource hubs, which players can fight over. Not the ownership of the resource, but the ability to gather it. It doesn't need any new system, so its a quick fix to have something to fight for.

We don't even know how expansion totems will work. Will other players be able to gather on another tribe's expanded area ? Will they be able to open containers there and steal ? Or the only difference will be that its not a safe zone ?

MrDDT
06-07-2011, 04:18 PM
I agree that we need rare resources. And we need areas where totems can be destroyed....WHEN totems can be destroyed. Till then dedicating an area to destroyable totems (while they are not even in game ) is a waste.

I really don't believe it would be so simple as to add hitpoints to totems. Perhaps that would work for expansion totems but not for tribe totems. There are no gates in game, tribes wouldn't be able to protect their area 24/7. The system needs a lot of balancing and planning.

Thats why I said that they should add rare resource hubs, which players can fight over. Not the ownership of the resource, but the ability to gather it. It doesn't need any new system, so its a quick fix to have something to fight for.

We don't even know how expansion totems will work. Will other players be able to gather on another tribe's expanded area ? Will they be able to open containers there and steal ? Or the only difference will be that its not a safe zone ?


Using your own thoughts in this, right now we cant do that at all either because combat is broken. So adding a new system would need to be done either way. Adding HP to a contested totem is very very easy thing to do, its not needing a whole system for it. Why would it need to be protected 24/7? In your own system it wont be protected 24/7.

You are thinking like these totems are totems going to be now, where people build them up. People can choose to build them up, but they will know what they are getting into.

We dont know a lot of stuff. That doesnt mean we want more safe totem areas in this new push back of the mist. We have tons of room for that already.

Jadzia
06-07-2011, 04:35 PM
Using your own thoughts in this, right now we cant do that at all either because combat is broken. So adding a new system would need to be done either way. Adding HP to a contested totem is very very easy thing to do, its not needing a whole system for it. Why would it need to be protected 24/7? In your own system it wont be protected 24/7.

You are thinking like these totems are totems going to be now, where people build them up. People can choose to build them up, but they will know what they are getting into.

We dont know a lot of stuff. That doesnt mean we want more safe totem areas in this new push back of the mist. We have tons of room for that already.

It would be nice if you talked for yourself...or are you referring to yourself as 'we' ? Its kind of confusing. I don't remember the playerbase electing you as their spokesman. You assume that your opinion is everyone's opinion, which is very clearly wrong.

The combat system is already in work. I agree, it has to be completed first, till then we can't even talk about combat. Another point not to dedicate the new zones for contest.
Adding a siege system is a very different question.

Who will build in an area where there is no way to protect his territory when he is offline, and his totem can simply be destroyed by running there and hitting it ? If you meant expansion totem that may work, but in that case there is no reason not to allow safe tribe totems to be placed in the new area (not on the rare resources).

We don't have tons of room. Every land was taken on the first day after launch when the population was very high, and these totems are still there. There are no good free spots in the game.

xyberviri
06-07-2011, 04:55 PM
Enforcer Dezgard!

I really hope if/when a skill cap is implented a hard total skill cap is put in above that soft cap so that you can't have more than X number of skill points in Everything.

Furthermore your stats need to come into play when skill caps come in, like if your 10 dex and 10 int you should not be able to raise your crafting skills very high.

Dubanka
06-07-2011, 05:05 PM
Dude no Offense but your part of the problem, nobody said oh, Go out on Grind as many crafting skills as possible so you can get those extra skill points to dump into a combat skill line so you can be OP when your pvp another player..... all the power gamers kinda figured that out on there own.

I really hope if/when a skill cap is implented a hard total skill cap is put in above that soft cap so that you can't have more than X number of skill points in Everything.

Furthermore your stats need to come into play when skill caps come in, like if your 10 dex and 10 int you should not be able to raise your crafting skills very high.

yeah i would have liked the system better without the leveling...skill based period would be the way to go. And you are correct, your stats should definitely impact your max skill level on any given ability...i mean should you really be able to be a master tool crafter with 10 dex? i'd think not.


There are no good free spots in the game.

The simple answer to this is totem decay...not territorial expansion. more world without more players just makes an emptier world.


If you meant expansion totem that may work, but in that case there is no reason not to allow safe tribe totems to be placed in the new area (not on the rare resources).
If there is a rare resource in the zone, very simply, you should only be able to place a destructible expansion totem in that zone. Why? It is an unfair advantage for someone to have an invuln safe zone in close proximity to a competive resource.


It would be nice if you talked for yourself...or are you referring to yourself as 'we' ? Its kind of confusing. I don't remember the playerbase electing you as their spokesman. You assume that your opinion is everyone's opinion, which is very clearly wrong.
/hiss that wasn't very constructive.

Jadzia
06-07-2011, 05:35 PM
The simple answer to this is totem decay...not territorial expansion. more world without more players just makes an emptier world.
It would be nice...but Xsyon said totem decay won't be in for a while, and even when he implement it it will take like 6 months or more. If he added it now and it took like 2 weeks to decay a totem of an unsubscribed player then it could help.



If there is a rare resource in the zone, very simply, you should only be able to place a destructible expansion totem in that zone. Why? It is an unfair advantage for someone to have an invuln safe zone in close proximity to a competive resource.
Thats why I said not to allow to place a safe totem on rare resources or not even close to it.


/hiss that wasn't very constructive.
Yeah....but true :)

xyberviri
06-07-2011, 05:38 PM
Personally i would like to see more tools to create content in the game, I can't make dungeons for other players to go into, we can't dig caves, We can't create spawns for Mobs, we cant lure animals/mobs, we can't make our money we just find it by scavaging and its currently infinite in and very little out. There is also a bunch of resources at this time that are very easy to get, which kills trade, even then you can't transport items to other cities, There is really no reward for building a large city other than just ooo Wow effect.

If there is a way to crowd source content generation then it would greatly help.

In SWG players can make Quests, these quests have triggers and spawns and stuff that appears, theres also stories and the abiltiy to rate the player created quest. I doubt that would be possible here.

Also i think that Unfortunatly the Sandbox needs some themepark rides for the players that dont want to change the world:

What i would like to see is the Zombies taking over abandoned homesteads, Ie you leave, your totem decays and instead of it just going poof some zombies move in and take it over, then you could kill them to get rid of the totem which would keep them from coming back.

Book
06-07-2011, 06:25 PM
It would be nice...but Xsyon said totem decay won't be in for a while, and even when he implement it it will take like 6 months or more. If he added it now and it took like 2 weeks to decay a totem of an unsubscribed player then it could help.


What i would like to see is the Zombies taking over abandoned homesteads, Ie you leave, your totem decays and instead of it just going poof some zombies move in and take it over, then you could kill them to get rid of the totem which would keep them from coming back.

Yup. Free up land, pretty much recycling content. Might tweak it up to a month instead of two weeks, just to make it one full payment cycle. I'd also make it retroactive though. Any account that's been unsubscribed a month goes into the revenant phase immediately. Send emails to every account you have in your database announcing the new and exciting revenant incursions and consequences, no surprises.

Xyber's idea means that while it's unfortunate you're losing a customer, the loss of that customer increases the likelihood of others staying as they're getting more content.

I presume Xsyon is coming from the hopes of getting those customers back by keeping their stuff around but... I'm not sure that would be the determining factor. Allow people coming back to rejoin with anything they had on them. They can always make arrangements to keep things at a friend's, or a storage business, if they're just taking a break and think they might come back.

I recently went back to Eve for a bit and some of my stuff was so old, I either couldn't remember what it was, or it was just irrelevant at this point. Glad to have my cash and maybe a couple of ships... but those arrangements shouldn't require a non-customer to have a 6 month hold on land over an actively paying customer.

MrDDT
06-07-2011, 06:32 PM
It would be nice if you talked for yourself...or are you referring to yourself as 'we' ? Its kind of confusing. I don't remember the playerbase electing you as their spokesman. You assume that your opinion is everyone's opinion, which is very clearly wrong.

The combat system is already in work. I agree, it has to be completed first, till then we can't even talk about combat. Another point not to dedicate the new zones for contest.
Adding a siege system is a very different question.

Who will build in an area where there is no way to protect his territory when he is offline, and his totem can simply be destroyed by running there and hitting it ? If you meant expansion totem that may work, but in that case there is no reason not to allow safe tribe totems to be placed in the new area (not on the rare resources).

We don't have tons of room. Every land was taken on the first day after launch when the population was very high, and these totems are still there. There are no good free spots in the game.


Yet what you propose is just a free for all of whatever amount of rare resource you want to farm, if combat isnt working, you cant place a totem to protect it from being jacked.

Talking in "we" is common English, you should try learning it. When its more than 1 person wanting it (see this thread).

I dont think combat has to be "completed" I would love if it were, but it surely doesnt have to be finished. I dont understand either why you feel something has to be protected 24/7. So what if someone cant protect a rare resource 24/7 sounds like a great system, I would hate to see a group have a rare resource 24/7.

There are already tons of areas for safe totems, why would you want to hinder the gamer with more of them? Every land wasnt taken first day after launch. Heck I started building just about 2 weeks ago. I know others have moved 3+ times since launch. I have no idea who you are fooling here.
Good free spots? So the only way you plan to get more "good" spots is to have MORE safe area that cant be taken? That doesnt make sense at all, according to you, they will be taken on the first day of the expansion (AKA mist being pushed back), that would mean they would have to push the mist back daily just to keep up with this need to build these safe totems only to have them never decay.
Or we could try what they said was planned. Contested areas with rare resources. Wow what a concept. Its only been stated many times and clearly what the players want.

Jadzia
06-07-2011, 07:10 PM
Enforcer Dezgard!

Rare resources don't need to be protected 24/7. I was talking about tribe areas with buildings, terraforming, read it again if you didn't understand.
There won't be more safe areas. Every player can only have one, so if (s)he moves to the new land the old totem has to be removed.

The new land won't be taken fast since there aren't such a huge amount of players as they were at launch. Much less, and most of them are already settled and don't want to move.

They planned new areas, both contested and normal. All I said was that this first expansion shouldn't be a contested area, since the contest system is not in place yet.

Xsyon said he will open up 5 new zones. He can even divide it, 2 for contest (still doesn't make sense since you can't take over lands but oh well perhaps this helps you) and 3 more for new lands to settle.

Added after 8 minutes:


Yup. Free up land, pretty much recycling content. Might tweak it up to a month instead of two weeks, just to make it one full payment cycle. I'd also make it retroactive though. Any account that's been unsubscribed a month goes into the revenant phase immediately. Send emails to every account you have in your database announcing the new and exciting revenant incursions and consequences, no surprises.

Xyber's idea means that while it's unfortunate you're losing a customer, the loss of that customer increases the likelihood of others staying as they're getting more content.

I presume Xsyon is coming from the hopes of getting those customers back by keeping their stuff around but... I'm not sure that would be the determining factor. Allow people coming back to rejoin with anything they had on them. They can always make arrangements to keep things at a friend's, or a storage business, if they're just taking a break and think they might come back.

I recently went back to Eve for a bit and some of my stuff was so old, I either couldn't remember what it was, or it was just irrelevant at this point. Glad to have my cash and maybe a couple of ships... but those arrangements shouldn't require a non-customer to have a 6 month hold on land over an actively paying customer.

Perhaps it could help if everything a player owns were stored in the database and he would get the opportunity to place his items again in the game world when he comes back. He would lose his spot and the terraformed stuffs, but still could keep some valuable things.

Book
06-07-2011, 07:14 PM
Hmm, well yeah, I guess that's right Jadzia :) Stuff could be saved and just put back down somewhere else when they come back. My ideas can be a bit draconian at times...

I just noticed the expansion is going forward. Not 5 zones... but 50 zones?!

Just when I thought I was out, they're gonna pull me back in! darnit.

Jadzia
06-07-2011, 07:22 PM
Hmm, well yeah, I guess that's right Jadzia :) Stuff could be saved and just put back down somewhere else when they come back. My ideas can be a bit draconian at times...

I just noticed the expansion is going forward. Not 5 zones... but 50 zones?!

Just when I thought I was out, they're gonna pull me back in! darnit.

Wow you are right 50 zones !! Now thats a huge land to explore :)

Vandal
06-07-2011, 07:39 PM
50 Zones is almost more than what is currently available.
And if it's really NW of the map, I'm pretty happy about it. The Templar's Temple will be right in the middle of it. ;)

MrDDT
06-07-2011, 08:57 PM
Lol, not again. Stop this please if you can't support your 'facts' with official polls. 11 players posted in this thread, and only you and Dub voted for new areas to be contested. 4 more want rare resources to fight over, but they don't care if there are other safe totems as well. The rest don't even care if there is combat content update.
Don't base your opinion on 11 players' posts. We don't represent anyone.

Rare resources don't need to be protected 24/7. I was talking about tribe areas with buildings, terraforming, read it again if you didn't understand.
There won't be more safe areas. Every player can only have one, so if (s)he moves to the new land the old totem has to be removed.

The new land won't be taken fast since there aren't such a huge amount of players as they were at launch. Much less, and most of them are already settled and don't want to move.

They planned new areas, both contested and normal. All I said was that this first expansion shouldn't be a contested area, since the contest system is not in place yet.

Xsyon said he will open up 5 new zones. He can even divide it, 2 for contest (still doesn't make sense since you can't take over lands but oh well perhaps this helps you) and 3 more for new lands to settle.



My poll is in game. How is that doing? Pretty good huh? Oh wait its not. Then come here and read the posts and wow here they are also asking for things to fight for and contested area. On top of that Xsyon already said he was going to add contested area with pushing back the mist.


It certainly lacks a lot of things and that is evident. All I do is train my skills so I can level up and have more hit points or I work on the city. Both are becoming less and less fun each day without any player conflict



Combat (its as if there is none atm)



I would like to see more purpose for combat.
I want the wars to be eligible. So that we can conquer each other for a purpose, either it be territories or ressources.




1. Combat. Was fubar. Devs are making strides to unscrew it. Great. This is a mechanics correction, not a content creation. But if they get this done correctly, it's a pretty huge step. Combat is merely a means to an end, not the end itself. Combat settles conflict, but the conflict itself should be primarily driven by political and economic concerns.

5. Accountability. Even if everything stated previously is addressed to a satisfactory degree, it's all pointless if there is not some degree of player accountability. The ability too hold a player accountable for their actions is paramount to the larger game. Accountability is the glue that holds the pieces together...you can't have politics without it. Your economy will stagnate without it (if you control/monopolize a resource 'we' need to be able to make a decision if we want to tolerate that...which in large part will be dictated by the controllers actions). Very simply, without accountability, every gameplay item is really artificial...the moment you make players accountable for each and every action is when you start to see real drama unfold, as players seek to protect and expand their interests.

so while the game is a sandbox [insert meaning], and yes, the players ultimately should determine what happens in it, the game design should assist by channeling players to some type of crucible that serves to ignite gameplay.


Thats just from the first page of people, without me listed on there btw.

I dont know why you think its only me and Dub.


Why does contested have to mean over tribe areas? Did you NOT see the post about adding HP to a totem and poof its contested? It doesnt even have to be anymore more than that. It doesnt have to be about buildings and stuff.
Heck why cant it just be over outposts? What I dont want to see is more safe totem areas. Because its NOT helping, its NOT needed and its where most people that I know have got bored and left the game. Economy is in the crapper. There are many reason for this, but mostly its due to the lack of strife for anything.

I wouldnt call "Launch" huge. Plus with the new combat changes and contested areas, you have no idea how many people will be playing, so your theory-crafting is failing here.
The combat system is in place. Its not a great one, its broken but there is a combat system. If these new areas have rare resources that are worth a damn, I can see lots of people moving and living in these areas for the better access to something in the game that means a damn.
Plus the combat system is likely to be put out very very soon. Adding more puffy carebear safe totem areas is going to make the combat system next to worthless. I guess maybe we can use it on the bears, oh wait I kill those in 1 to 2 hits now.

He shouldnt divide it at all. You have 50+ zones of safe totem area already heck you have that many and you still want to take the lions share of new lands, we have been waiting over a year for contested areas. Stop trying to get your carebear world pushed on to a game where its a sandbox.
We want contested areas, we have been waiting for them. Pushing back contested areas is a bad idea. Please get out of here with your carebear safe totems everywhere. Stop trying to CHANGE the game to how you want it. Yes YOU. This game had features and listed a guideline of that system. Its people like you trying to warp it into some carebear land with all your crying about "Im being griefed because he killed me".

Strife is what makes the economy work, these goals are there for a reason. You have your safe areas now. Stop trying to take the whole map.

Xsyon
06-07-2011, 10:35 PM
Reading this discussion gives me an idea regarding resources that would be fairly easy to implement.

1) Normal resources, including scavenged resources, are distributed by areas. This will make even some common scavenged resources scarce in some areas.

This is already implemented for plants and fish and somewhat for creatures who should be defining their own areas by avoiding or chasing off other creatures and selecting home locations.

2) Rare resources will be distributed by area as welll.

3) The frequency of rare resources will be higher on undeveloped land and land claimed by expansion totems. I could even set it up so that once scrap pile is claimed by a town totem, it will no longer yield rare resources at all.

I think this will give more incentive and meaning for players to trade and create quests (which I plan to improve as well, by adding XP gain and additional quest variables).

Any opinions on this?

inhabit
06-08-2011, 12:21 AM
Like the ideas Xsyon, and it should hopefully help promote trading between players.
However as said before we need a method for transporting goods as the current "death warp" isn't a viable solution.
In my opinion I think this needs to be made a higher priority especially if your are opening up 50 more zones next week.
Also with the zones expansion are you going to think about opening up world wide chat temporarily as even at the moment its hard to get in touch with people.

VeryWiiTee
06-08-2011, 04:40 AM
I specifically said: "Expansion totems" would be easy to add hitpoints to without it being a major problem.
Just because the main totem cannot be destroyed shouldn't prevent them, Jooky and all the others, from making totems that can be destroyed.

I seriously doubt a land expansion would arrive earlier than expansion totems (in which case new land will be pointless as all the 'new' and possibly rare resources will be jacked and you can't suddenly start shutting off areas because a resource is beneath it. That would require millions of checks and frustrated players not being able to find a totem spot - AND that wasn't the original idea. They probably arrive around the same patch :).
An expansion totem is supposed to be contested area.. I don't think you have much more than the warning 'you are encroaching on tribe land.'

Added after 15 minutes:

It is supposed to be hard.
If you open up Global again we'll have a spam-o-rama regardless of what you say, do or try to limit it.

Do it do it do it do it.. AALL of it. Even though players might complain that rare resource goes *POOF* should they place their Town totem on the spot, it is still worth it.. Creates a little bit of risk. Forces people to interact and to fight.

and Jadzia, I'm still on MrDDT side, even though his carebear flip might be a bit too much because it was never intended for this game to go into full-blown PvP with sieges and major PvP fights. It was asked by most of the community and they listened... To begin with it was just to be minor conflicts that arose due to resources. Either way, both side needs to be taken care of and the carebears have had their time.. It founded a good base for the game, but it is still lacking some of that combat, something to fight over.


Reading this discussion gives me an idea regarding resources that would be fairly easy to implement.

1) Normal resources, including scavenged resources, are distributed by areas. This will make even some common scavenged resources scarce in some areas.

This is already implemented for plants and fish and somewhat for creatures who should be defining their own areas by avoiding or chasing off other creatures and selecting home locations.

2) Rare resources will be distributed by area as welll.

3) The frequency of rare resources will be higher on undeveloped land and land claimed by expansion totems. I could even set it up so that once scrap pile is claimed by a town totem, it will no longer yield rare resources at all.

I think this will give more incentive and meaning for players to trade and create quests (which I plan to improve as well, by adding XP gain and additional quest variables).

Any opinions on this?

Just remove the stupid need for quest rewards. I'm already giving them free exp in form of using skills and about a 5% exp gain from delivering the quest. Some objects are just not worth putting up a reward for, some should reward you enough just getting you that closer to a level and 10 free skill points.

MrDDT
06-08-2011, 04:42 AM
Reading this discussion gives me an idea regarding resources that would be fairly easy to implement.

1) Normal resources, including scavenged resources, are distributed by areas. This will make even some common scavenged resources scarce in some areas.

This is already implemented for plants and fish and somewhat for creatures who should be defining their own areas by avoiding or chasing off other creatures and selecting home locations.

2) Rare resources will be distributed by area as welll.

3) The frequency of rare resources will be higher on undeveloped land and land claimed by expansion totems. I could even set it up so that once scrap pile is claimed by a town totem, it will no longer yield rare resources at all.

I think this will give more incentive and meaning for players to trade and create quests (which I plan to improve as well, by adding XP gain and additional quest variables).

Any opinions on this?


Xsyon the problem with this is 2 things.

1) Why get 1 resource over another? Right now I can get 10 diff types of fish or something like that, but why would someone want to trade me for the type of fish I have? The effects are minor at best some are the same.
Foraging right now is all but worthless, you can eat some of the plants but eating plants is the worst way feed yourself. So foraging is really just bad.
Rare resources should be much more common in some areas appose to others. Things people really want. Like say metal buckles can be common in the south by like 100 to 1 than the north. While the north has metal decorations 100 to 1 compared to the south.

2) Exporting items. Like someone else said. Right now the death warping items is really the only effective way to export items and even that isnt fun and feels like exploiting. Really need a system where we can transport goods from places. Im not talking like an insta safe teleporting system either. Trade routes should form in the game with faster travel and also allow for exported goods. However, it shouldnt be 100% safe either. Even just sleds, carts or packanimals would go a LONG way for this.


About your player made quests for exp, I can see that being exploited because I doubt you are going to xfer the exp from the quest-giver to the questor.


With more zones coming we as players will also need faster modes of travel.

Vandal
06-08-2011, 06:34 AM
1) Normal resources, including scavenged resources, are distributed by areas. This will make even some common scavenged resources scarce in some areas.

I vote yes. How are you going to do that for trees?


2) Rare resources will be distributed by area as welll.

I vote yes.


3) The frequency of rare resources will be higher on undeveloped land and land claimed by expansion totems. I could even set it up so that once scrap pile is claimed by a town totem, it will no longer yield rare resources at all.

I vote yes, specially for the scrap pile totem part.

Jadzia
06-08-2011, 06:53 AM
Enforcer Dezgard!

We shouldn't be able to place safe totems on rare resources, but safe totems should be possible to be placed in the new land, not close to these resources. With this system there is the possibility to fight over valuable stuffs, still the new land won't be empty. If Xsyon didn't allow players to place safe totems in the new land who would go there ? Established tribes won't, since they put a lot of time in to build up their base. New players won't, because they won't get any safety till they build some defense. Since there are no gates, they can't even build it. With your system the new lands would be deserted for no reason, only because of the fact that YOU personally hate safe totems.
Safe totems have always been promised for the time while the built safety structures are not in game. They are still not here.

Players should be able to place safe totems in the new area but not close to rare resources, and they should be able to place expansion totems (when they get in game) on rare resources. There should be a distance where a safe totem can't be placed nearby a rare resource hub (like we have with tribe totems now, we get the message that a totem can't be placed since there is a tribe nearby). This way players can settle in the new zones and fight over the resources till expansion totems get in game, and after that they can fight over expansion totems.


Reading this discussion gives me an idea regarding resources that would be fairly easy to implement.

1) Normal resources, including scavenged resources, are distributed by areas. This will make even some common scavenged resources scarce in some areas.

This is already implemented for plants and fish and somewhat for creatures who should be defining their own areas by avoiding or chasing off other creatures and selecting home locations.

2) Rare resources will be distributed by area as welll.

3) The frequency of rare resources will be higher on undeveloped land and land claimed by expansion totems. I could even set it up so that once scrap pile is claimed by a town totem, it will no longer yield rare resources at all.

I think this will give more incentive and meaning for players to trade and create quests (which I plan to improve as well, by adding XP gain and additional quest variables).

Any opinions on this?

#1 and #2 is a good system if there is some way to transfer goods faster and and with bigger amount than we have now. If we have to run 2-3 hours (or even much more since the player is overweighted by goods) to trade regional resources that won't encourage players to trade. With the new 50 zones opening up the land will be huge....right now it takes like 1 hour to run from north to south. This will be like 2-3 hours from the new lands. We need some form of fast travel...

3. If every normal scrap pile gives rare resources in the new lands then its a good idea that town totems reduce the yielding rate of it. If the town totem is lifted then the rare resources should appear again in the normal yield rate, this would make exploiting harder ( as in dropping a town totem on scrap piles to destroy the rare resources).
If there are dedicated rare resource hubs ( like 3-4 in a zone) then we shouldn't be able to place a town totem on it at all. Players would just drop a totem on it to destroy the resource.

Plus I suggest to increase the time when a town totem can be dropped again. Right now its 6 hours, and there is no reason for that, its only good for exploiting. Every players' first totem should be freely moveable for 2 days ( to help them settle down) but after that we should only be able to drop totems in like every 2 weeks. So if I placed a town totem, I'd have to wait 2 weeks to be able to place it in another place. When placing a totem its should work like when placing a building, a ghost totem which I can move around and a green circle showing the area border, and the totem is only dropped when the proper place is found.

MrDDT
06-08-2011, 07:20 AM
Enforcer Dezgard!

We shouldn't be able to place safe totems on rare resources, but safe totems should be possible to be placed in the new land, not close to these resources. With this system there is the possibility to fight over valuable stuffs, still the new land won't be empty. If Xsyon didn't allow players to place safe totems in the new land who would go there ? Established tribes won't, since they put a lot of time in to build up their base. New players won't, because they won't get any safety till they build some defense. Since there are no gates, they can't even build it. With your system the new lands would be deserted for no reason, only because of the fact that YOU personally hate safe totems.
Safe totems have always been promised for the time while the built safety structures are not in game. They are still not here.

Players should be able to place safe totems in the new area but not close to rare resources, and they should be able to place expansion totems (when they get in game) on rare resources. There should be a distance where a safe totem can't be placed nearby a rare resource hub (like we have with tribe totems now, we get the message that a totem can't be placed since there is a tribe nearby). This way players can settle in the new zones and fight over the resources till expansion totems get in game, and after that they can fight over expansion totems.



#1 and #2 is a good system if there is some way to transfer goods faster and and with bigger amount than we have now. If we have to run 2-3 hours (or even much more since the player is overweighted by goods) to trade regional resources that won't encourage players to trade. With the new 50 zones opening up the land will be huge....right now it takes like 1 hour to run from north to south. This will be like 2-3 hours from the new lands. We need some form of fast travel...

3. If every normal scrap pile gives rare resources in the new lands then its a good idea that town totems reduce the yielding rate of it. If the town totem is lifted then the rare resources should appear again in the normal yield rate, this would make exploiting harder ( as in dropping a town totem on scrap piles to destroy the rare resources).
If there are dedicated rare resource hubs ( like 3-4 in a zone) then we shouldn't be able to place a town totem on it at all. Players would just drop a totem on it to destroy the resource.

Plus I suggest to increase the time when a town totem can be dropped again. Right now its 6 hours, and there is no reason for that, its only good for exploiting. Every players' first totem should be freely moveable for 2 days ( to help them settle down) but after that we should only be able to drop totems in like every 2 weeks. So if I placed a town totem, I'd have to wait 2 weeks to be able to place it in another place. When placing a totem its should work like when placing a building, a ghost totem which I can move around and a green circle showing the area border, and the totem is only dropped when the proper place is found.


Enforcer Dezgard!

#1,#2 we agree on.
#3 I dont see why you would want to reduce nor the reasoning why it would reduce the rare resources. This is only a problem if you allow safe totem areas. Which 0 should be near rare resources at all. Rare resources could be random how they grow, also why would someone drop a totem only to destroy the rare resource? That makes no sense. They would harvest the resource. If the resource can be destroyed then there are more problems with the system than that. Heck I can destroy resources right now without dropping a totem.


I agree on the totem dropping issue. 6 hours is very short, its easy to exploit. I also think they should remove the safety to it. Meaning it should have a timer based on when you removed your last totem, not when you dropped it. So 2 timers.
1)Based on when you dropped it you must wait 2 weeks (I think 1 week is better avg)
2)You cant redrop a totem for like 1 hour after you pick up your old totem.

Reason for #2 is because this shouldnt be something you really want to do. So you would be risking your stuff. 1 hour isnt all that long, but if you are in the middle of a battle it can be a long time, which is how this can be used for exploiting the system.

Love the idea with the green/ghost radius.

Jadzia
06-08-2011, 07:37 AM
Enforcer Dezgard!

From Jordi's post its clear he will allow safe totems on the new land. That's why he mentioned #3.
Players would destroy rare resource hubs to make them even more rare. I know a player who do that regularly...don't you ? :p

I don't agree with waiting 1 hour to drop a new totem after you lifted your previous one. There is no risk in it, people would just stand around naked for an hour, their containers are safe anyway on the ground, they would log out and log back in after an hour. Its only waste of time.

Trenchfoot
06-08-2011, 09:20 AM
The end game (figuratively) for the conquest of rare resources should be in the conquest of your competition for said resource. Conquest of the rare resource itself should simply be the first step, not a treadmill.

Imagine two cities fighting over a rare resource that could never eliminate one another from the fight. You might as well make 'zones', because that's what this is anyway if you can't attack your competition for a rare resource directly. It's a player created pvp zone where no one is allowed to 'win'.

And by win I mean 'pacify' by:

a. keeping your competition so busy rebuilding/re-equipping at their home, that they don't have time to contest the resource anymore.
b. literally driving their totem so far away from the resource that it's no longer practical for them to contest it.
c. capture their totem and ransom it back in a treaty.

In these ways a tribe can firmly establish that a rare resource belongs to them, and thereby enter into a 'victory'. If they can't, then I see rare resources being nothing more than 'the pvp arena', where the benefit of winning is more of the same.

Dubanka
06-08-2011, 11:22 AM
Reading this discussion gives me an idea regarding resources that would be fairly easy to implement.

1) Normal resources, including scavenged resources, are distributed by areas. This will make even some common scavenged resources scarce in some areas.

This is already implemented for plants and fish and somewhat for creatures who should be defining their own areas by avoiding or chasing off other creatures and selecting home locations.

2) Rare resources will be distributed by area as welll.

3) The frequency of rare resources will be higher on undeveloped land and land claimed by expansion totems. I could even set it up so that once scrap pile is claimed by a town totem, it will no longer yield rare resources at all.

I think this will give more incentive and meaning for players to trade and create quests (which I plan to improve as well, by adding XP gain and additional quest variables).

Any opinions on this?

I'd like to respond to this and not the jad vs. ddt show :p

1. Great.

2. What kind of 'rare' resources...ie. if you only made chalk availble in the north, the folks in the south wouldnt be able to tailor. If you are going to introduce more rare resources to populate new patterns/recipes, great...just be careful about how it's implemented.

3. It would be nice to have static spawns of 'rare resources'...not just the randomly occuring model (like chalk, flint, etc)....like harvesting granite/limestone. Its rare because of its limited locations, not because of some timer. To keep from being overharvested it needs to have a 'respawn' timer on it...10 per hour, or whatever. Again, you do it this way because it pulls people to that spot...it creates a conflict node.

3b. The scrap pile thing, while great in concept is also horribly abuseable.

To go way back to the original point of the post...the content i want to see is that which drives a reason for doing this.
- I want a reason to craft different items...i want them to do different things, have different strengths, weaknesses, benefits.
- I want a reason to fortify a town
- I want a reason to patrol an area to keep interlopers out
- I want to have to trade with other people to get things that I don't have the abilty to make.
- etc. etc. etc.

dezgard
06-09-2011, 05:36 AM
Re-opened & re-enforced by your local enforcer Dezgard!

Keep it on topic please.

VeryWiiTee
06-09-2011, 05:47 AM
I vote yes. How are you going to do that for trees?



I vote yes.



I vote yes, specially for the scrap pile totem part.


I vote yes to @ll those things too. (Some of my keys died yesterd@y hench the signs :P)

MrDDT
06-09-2011, 07:35 AM
Thanks Dez, and sorry Xsyon and Jadzia.

Another thing about rare resources is that making them useful is needed. Why would I care if metal buckles are rare or not in the north? vs the south? So I wouldnt have a few items that take them. Not a big deal.

I like the idea that some ideas will be swappable with others of the same family to yield different results for bonuses and stuff. Also can we see the bonuses? Right now I wear tribal colors and I have no idea how its effecting me if any at all. Yet you say its in game. I dont need it saying "You gained .01 crafting success" but a message saying that I didnt fail because of tribal colors would be nice, or maybe when I put the tribal colors on it says something like "You feel more focused while wearing these colors" or something like that.


Also these resources being rare in the north vs south or east vs west etc. but without a transport system it will be very upsetting. Plus another problem is how training a craft is done. So you make metal buckles hard north vs south, but for me to train up leather crafting I dont need metal buckles so I will only need maybe like 20 of them to make a set of armor here or there. Its not really going to be traded all that much.
Giving rewards to people crafting higher level type stuff will help here causing people to train using more resources and harder to get ones. (Balance in the recipes need to be done too based on the mats used in them).
Take tool crafting. I can make a scrappers lasher 10000 times, and I will be 100 in tool crafting.
Or bone crafting, I can make 10000 bone stakes and I will be 100 in bone crafting. Without ever making a single piece of bone armor. So making deer rare in the north wouldnt effect me at all, because I would never craft something with deer bones being needed unless its 1 or 2 items for armor set I wanted to use.

Liquidblade
07-03-2011, 07:16 PM
-TRIBE messaging system.
-RIvers with Sand

mrwooj
07-03-2011, 11:14 PM
I vote a huge NO to number 1 in the strongest of terms.

This makes it impossible for new players to even make a decent set of tools without travelling across a pile of zones. This is going to scare a lot of players away from the game before they even get started properly. It also makes a mockery of the fact that you have said you want to cater to solo players.

Tribes have the luxury of sending out resourse collecting parties to bring in normal items for everyday crafting. Solo players do not want to waste such time doing menial tasks.

I dont see myself playing the game anymore if i have to spend so much effort just to get normal crafting items.

I would like a clear decision on this now so i can move on to another game if you are going to stick with this rediculous decision. I am not saying this to start another "im leaving Xsyon" post. I want to play the game, but refuse to play under those terms. I am 100% certain that i will not continue playing if we keep normal resourses zone-specific. Therefore would like to know either way so i can leave now or keep working on my land and toon.

I expect to see a lot of people flame me here, judging by the comments so far. Keep it civil and non-personal. I am a solo player who wants to play solo and i want resourse hotspots and pvp hotspots.

Spreading normal materials over an entire zone does none of this. A zone is just too huge an area and will not create conflict centres. I have posted my ideas on this recently in another thread. Here it is again below..............

How to implement the resourse system


The resourse system should have gone more like this..................

1. NORMALLY SCROUNGED ITEMS FOUND EVERYWHERE AS PER PRE-PATCH
- this is essential otherwise new players won't be able to do any crafting, pretty much and will leave the game. They won't even be able to make tools without horrible amounts of travel.

2. RARE, MORE POWERFUL VERSIONS OF NORMALLY SCROUNGED ITEMS
- there could be something like "magical junkpiles" that cannot be built on within a certain radius. These should be the only place to get special versions of the scrounged items. They should deplete as per normal junk, but then regenerate at a slow rate (similar to the rare ore system of Darkfall). Using these parts in crafting should imbue special attributes to what you make.

- Alternately, these magic junkpiles could give some sort of "magical essence" instead of magical versions of the normal scrounged items. To implement this, every recipe page could have a slot for this "magical essence". It could be added optionally to the recipe at creation of the item and imbue random, special attributes relating specifically to the type of item being made - ie. stat bonuses to weapons, defence attributes to armours, durability to architecture.

This would be the better option imho, as it is exciting to have something cool, but semi-random happen at the item creation moment. Also, it reduces the need for the huge amount of items that you have just introduced to the game (poor to master for each item and special attibute). This is very important in my oppinion, because stacking and storing was rediculous enough already before the patch, but now we have another huge amount of items to deal with, sort and store. Im not a big fan of all these new items at all and i imagine many other people aren't either.

3. SOME ITEMS ONLY FOUND IN CERTAIN SPECIAL, NEW PILES
- perhaps as an example, the only place to find human skulls, other than a rare scavenge is to find a "bone pile". They could be similar to "magical junkpiles" in that they deplete and regenerate slowly.

- maybe these bone piles or something similar could pop up all over the land randomly and not be placed statically. Having certain special resourses pop up in random spots will encourage exploration.



These are just some ideas, but i think they would be a millionfold improvement on what was implemented in the last patch. Zone specific resourses does nothing to create "hotspots" of activity where players can expect some friction, PVP and excitement. A zone is just way to big for this to happen. Small, static regions for resourses will go a long way towards creating some life in the game. I would be very surprised if anyone who suggested the implementation of rare resourses and "hotspots" wanted or expected what has arrived in the last patch.

mrwooj
07-03-2011, 11:36 PM
Dezgard is in your quotez

Im not sure i understand your standing on my comments though DDT? Do you agree with me about zone-specific normal loot being pretty lame? And dont worry, i have sent a personal email to Jordi about this, but i do not intend to bitch and whine about it. I just to know either way where we are going so i can either move on or keep building.

VeryWiiTee
07-04-2011, 07:04 PM
I vote a huge NO to number 1 in the strongest of terms.

This makes it impossible for new players to even make a decent set of tools without travelling across a pile of zones. This is going to scare a lot of players away from the game before they even get started properly. It also makes a mockery of the fact that you have said you want to cater to solo players.

Tribes have the luxury of sending out resourse collecting parties to bring in normal items for everyday crafting. Solo players do not want to waste such time doing menial tasks.

I dont see myself playing the game anymore if i have to spend so much effort just to get normal crafting items.

I would like a clear decision on this now so i can move on to another game if you are going to stick with this rediculous decision. I am not saying this to start another "im leaving Xsyon" post. I want to play the game, but refuse to play under those terms. I am 100% certain that i will not continue playing if we keep normal resourses zone-specific. Therefore would like to know either way so i can leave now or keep working on my land and toon.

I expect to see a lot of people flame me here, judging by the comments so far. Keep it civil and non-personal. I am a solo player who wants to play solo and i want resourse hotspots and pvp hotspots.

Spreading normal materials over an entire zone does none of this. A zone is just too huge an area and will not create conflict centres. I have posted my ideas on this recently in another thread. Here it is again below..............

How to implement the resourse system
The resourse system should have gone more like this..................

1. NORMALLY SCROUNGED ITEMS FOUND EVERYWHERE AS PER PRE-PATCH
- this is essential otherwise new players won't be able to do any crafting, pretty much and will leave the game. They won't even be able to make tools without horrible amounts of travel.

2. RARE, MORE POWERFUL VERSIONS OF NORMALLY SCROUNGED ITEMS
- there could be something like "magical junkpiles" that cannot be built on within a certain radius. These should be the only place to get special versions of the scrounged items. They should deplete as per normal junk, but then regenerate at a slow rate (similar to the rare ore system of Darkfall). Using these parts in crafting should imbue special attributes to what you make.

- Alternately, these magic junkpiles could give some sort of "magical essence" instead of magical versions of the normal scrounged items. To implement this, every recipe page could have a slot for this "magical essence". It could be added optionally to the recipe at creation of the item and imbue random, special attributes relating specifically to the type of item being made - ie. stat bonuses to weapons, defence attributes to armours, durability to architecture.

This would be the better option imho, as it is exciting to have something cool, but semi-random happen at the item creation moment. Also, it reduces the need for the huge amount of items that you have just introduced to the game (poor to master for each item and special attibute). This is very important in my oppinion, because stacking and storing was rediculous enough already before the patch, but now we have another huge amount of items to deal with, sort and store. Im not a big fan of all these new items at all and i imagine many other people aren't either.

3. SOME ITEMS ONLY FOUND IN CERTAIN SPECIAL, NEW PILES
- perhaps as an example, the only place to find human skulls, other than a rare scavenge is to find a "bone pile". They could be similar to "magical junkpiles" in that they deplete and regenerate slowly.

- maybe these bone piles or something similar could pop up all over the land randomly and not be placed statically. Having certain special resourses pop up in random spots will encourage exploration.



These are just some ideas, but i think they would be a millionfold improvement on what was implemented in the last patch. Zone specific resourses does nothing to create "hotspots" of activity where players can expect some friction, PVP and excitement. A zone is just way to big for this to happen. Small, static regions for resourses will go a long way towards creating some life in the game. I would be very surprised if anyone who suggested the implementation of rare resourses and "hotspots" wanted or expected what has arrived in the last patch.

A zone isn't as huge as you might like to think. It roughly takes 10min travelling through one with decent agility and a decent running skill and what I've seen is it doesn't distribute by zone, but by area name.
Meaning some zones will carry the same items in one area and other items in another area. (I might be wrong - though that is from travelling to 4 different area names, and only then would it change what a scrap yard yielded.)
- It's not that I don't want solo players.. but god damnit. YOU ARE NOT GOD. Tribes only have the luxury of sending out gathering parties because they took the time to band together, something a homesteader would necessarily do.
If you don't want to travel great distances to might get lucky and find what you need, then trade for it. That was the deal with this system. Travel the distance you need to go or get them to come visit you.

The only negative thing I have to say about the new distribution system would be the fact that some items have become -incredibly rare- while still being a normal crafting item. Large Metal Plates have almost vanished from all the piles I've been at. These things are just tweakings.

Yes, for a solo player the new system is going to be a burden, but without it this game simply has no purpose coming to crafting.
Resource being spread across zones is not uncommon in games either. Just take World of Warcraft where certain crafting materials can only be found in certain zones and it was (at least in Classic) a hassle to get some ingredients as a solo player.
We tried the homestead way, loads of resources for everyone - zero trade going on. It didn't work and won't work for such (currently) crafting orientated game. There is nothing to do.

MrDDT
07-04-2011, 07:13 PM
My post was deleted because it told how crappy the patch was, and poorly done. Just FYI.
Test more, plan better, and better use of the ideas given.

Posting long essays are pointless as the devs only take it and mess it up. Much better to take the ideas they put in, and try to fix the problems.

These problems with this, are items have no meaning, bonuses dont work, and rares are way to rare and not in regions nor known regions.
Also will all the extra item types its a pain in the butt to sort anything out.

Can we stack stuff better? Do we really need 10 different types of screws? Great idea, but 10 different slots just on type, then you will need to have 2 to 6 slots for QL level. Thats 20 to 60 slots just for 1 item in the game. Not counting double stacks of items if they are small counts. Like try stacking small metal plates =P Good luck with that. You will likely have 10 baskets just for that.

Willowhawk
07-04-2011, 09:00 PM
Just take World of Warcraft where certain crafting materials can only be found in certain zones and it was (at least in Classic) a hassle to get some ingredients as a solo player.
We tried the homestead way, loads of resources for everyone - zero trade going on. It didn't work and won't work for such (currently) crafting orientated game. There is nothing to do.
I have to agree with VeryWiiTee, I'm sure there is still some areas that will need to be tweeked but for the most part this is what was needed and I believe requested and suggested by many people. Since the game revolves around survival and resources, this is a good way to give value to items both materials and crafted. Every game I've played with rare exception requires some or even extensive travel or trade to acquire thus giving the items needed value. And the harder to get (and the more needed), the more value. Simple economics, supply and demand.

inhabit
07-05-2011, 05:14 AM
So the main complaints before were that there are too many junks piles and things are too easy to get and that everone can make everything themselves therefore noone wants to trade and they are bored.
Now you are complaining that is too hard to get stuff and craft tools yourself sheesh.....

You dont need to run across multiple zones to get the basic stuff........there are other options you know be creative its what the game is about.

This game is different from others and its the type of game i want to play but i get the feeling some people like the "IDEA" of this sandbox but they would actually like the golden exclamation mark above each junk pile stating whats in it before they spend time scavenging. Think we were all spoiled when we first started the game, no decay and anything you want available within your safe zone.

Yes there are bugs and things that need fixed i agree with that but what items do you think you are currently missing nearby?

VeryWiiTee
07-06-2011, 03:15 AM
This patch didn't mess up ideas. None of the ideas we brought to the table was used in the resource distirbution, except. MAKE IT HARDER.
They did in fact make it harder.

Have you tested all the bonuses. Who says you get a lot of strength from a bear bone. What if you only get 1 Strength per item with a full suit maybe 8 strength?


My MMO experience tells me that people will always complain because there will always be misinterpretation, stupidity and egocentric people around :). Most people are even inclined to complain the second it is no longer to their favor.