Why is firewood in the game if it has no use?

[NorCalGooey]

Either make us have to maintain fires (please very slowly, its a little tedious) or remove it from the game IMO.

Edit:

I can confirm chopping firewood gives XP. That's its use as of now.

Added after 7 minutes:

PLEASE, chop fire wood and delete it for XP instead of felling every tree you can find.

It's actually faster.

[TrackerEcanus]

To my knowledge campfires will need fuel one day.

[thurgond]

At 75 woodworking and 20 logging, I get HQ firewood from LQ logs. My guess from this is that chopping firewood uses the woodworking skill instead of logging skill.

Has anyone done more extensive test or gained skill after chopping firewood?

Ravelli

[Willowhawk]

At 75 woodworking and 20 logging, I get HQ firewood from LQ logs. My guess from this is that chopping firewood uses the woodworking skill instead of logging skill.

Has anyone done more extensive test or gained skill after chopping firewood?

Ravelli
Yes, Firewood now raises logging. I spent all day yesterday cutting up all the clear cut trees that have been lying around our zone and did pretty well leveling up logging. I also have 96 woodworking and 76 logging and still only get high and very high quality firewood. So I don't think woodworking is affecting the end result quality of firewood. I did leave a lot of high quality and some very high quality logs for folks to stumble on if they need them for tools etc.

[NorCalGooey]

If you read post above I say chopping firewood is now giving xp. it's also the fastest way to level logging now. Sorry mrDDT :(

[MrDDT]

No worries. Its like everything in game. You do the easiest and get the same exp. It just shows another broken system in game.

So instead of getting more exp/skill for making something that takes 3+ hard to get resources, you are rewarded equal for making something that takes 1 easy to get item. Makes no sense. Should be based on how hard the item is to make.
Also balancing based on higher level items should be done.

[VeryWiiTee]

Dudes.. It's like this in any game.

You always make the easiest to make item. Nothing more.
In World of Warcraft, I can never recall myself levelling Alchemy using the hard to get materials, only the easy to get materials. Regardless of what you crafted it still rewarded you with the same amount of skill exp if they were both orange/yellow/green or both had the same required skill level.

The -ONLY- game where I've seen a difference in how much skill exp you got from a skill would be Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. They rewarded you with experience depending on the quality of the finished product.
You can hardly call it a broken system. More likely you can call it 'MrDDT not satisfied.' but then MrDDT wouldn't be satisfied with all that many crafting systems ;).
- The main difference is, that instead of having to move up from recipes once every few skill levels (usually 20-25 for some reason) you'd had to make the next skill area's easiest to make item. In Xsyon you don't have to. That might be the 'broken' part in this system, but that is about all I can spot.

[MrDDT]

Dudes.. It's like this in any game.

You always make the easiest to make item. Nothing more.
In World of Warcraft, I can never recall myself levelling Alchemy using the hard to get materials, only the easy to get materials. Regardless of what you crafted it still rewarded you with the same amount of skill exp if they were both orange/yellow/green or both had the same required skill level.

The -ONLY- game where I've seen a difference in how much skill exp you got from a skill would be Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. They rewarded you with experience depending on the quality of the finished product.
You can hardly call it a broken system. More likely you can call it 'MrDDT not satisfied.' but then MrDDT wouldn't be satisfied with all that many crafting systems ;).
- The main difference is, that instead of having to move up from recipes once every few skill levels (usually 20-25 for some reason) you'd had to make the next skill area's easiest to make item. In Xsyon you don't have to. That might be the 'broken' part in this system, but that is about all I can spot.

How could you be more wrong?

Try making a low level item in WOW and see how that does for your skill. Thanks. Fact you cant even level your skill past a certain point using low level items they turn grey and you get 0 skill off them.

Try again? Or are you just done being a fanboi today?

[NorCalGooey]

Even WoW mother of all carebears knows its not good to let people grind to max level off of newbie recipes.

[L0rd0fIvIetal]

How could you be more wrong?

Try making a low level item in WOW and see how that does for your skill. Thanks. Fact you cant even level your skill past a certain point using low level items they turn grey and you get 0 skill off them.

Try again? Or are you just done being a fanboi today?

omg nice to see that its not just me that thinks this guy is a bloody troll always craping on about stuff he has no clue about

[goodayve]

He did clearly say easy to get materials. Not low level potions.

Some potions probably are made with basic materials and some with harder to get stuff.(each level has basic and harder stuff)

Which would be alittle like toolcrafting now.

Not sure it works to compare logging to this, but what he said was not wrong.

[L0rd0fIvIetal]

hes still a troll lol

[VeryWiiTee]

He did clearly say easy to get materials. Not low level potions.

Some potions probably are made with basic materials and some with harder to get stuff.(each level has basic and harder stuff)

Which would be alittle like toolcrafting now.

Not sure it works to compare logging to this, but what he said was not wrong.

This dude has brains! OMG.

The only one that actually understood my point. It was never about levelling on recipe. It was every craft in other crafting games has easy to skill recipes. It is just the way it is.
If I couldn't do skill 5, I'd just do the easiest skill 25, 50 or 75 - IT WOULD STILL BE EASY TO SKILL THE CRAFT COMPARED TO USING HARD TO GET MATERIAL RECIPES. The main difference is I don't have to bother doing that I'm not saying I'm a fan of it either. Just saying it isn't all that different in other games.

You guys are the sad pair of people thinking as soon as someone does not defend or like your idea they are a) a fanboy, b) a troll.
Fact is I'm neither of those. I do troll, I am a bit of a fanboy, I'm also against trolling and I hate emo fags just as much as you do.. It's called - being human.. You should try it sometime :)

[L0rd0fIvIetal]

This dude has brains! OMG.

The only one that actually understood my point. It was never about levelling on recipe. It was every craft in other crafting games has easy to skill recipes. It is just the way it is.
If I couldn't do skill 5, I'd just do the easiest skill 25, 50 or 75 - IT WOULD STILL BE EASY TO SKILL THE CRAFT COMPARED TO USING HARD TO GET MATERIAL RECIPES. The main difference is I don't have to bother doing that I'm not saying I'm a fan of it either. Just saying it isn't all that different in other games.

You guys are the sad pair of people thinking as soon as someone does not defend or like your idea they are a) a fanboy, b) a troll.
Fact is I'm neither of those. I do troll, I am a bit of a fanboy, I'm also against trolling and I hate emo fags just as much as you do.. It's called - being human.. You should try it sometime :)

whatever makes you sleep better fool at level 50 the mats are all hard to get espesialy if you play on a pvp server

[VeryWiiTee]

... No they are not. I never played anything but PvP servers.. Normal servers were way to easy.. So easy that you could probably have an infant playing the game and succeed.

So, I take it you played World of Warcraft, you would know that pretty much anyone can level a skill from 1 - 375 in a few days say 3 days power levelling tops. I never spend more than 1 or 2 days power levelling -ANY- craft and for my skill range I would NEVER do the hard recipes. They were just a waste of gold. A very much developed game, where it is even easier than it is in Xsyon to level your craft to maximum (3 expansions. The game is even easier than it started out to be - at least elites were elites that required a group back in Vanilla.)

(I stopped in WotLK simply got way to boring with instant collected mats when you eg. mined a vein and mini-instance raids with gear that surpassed most of their raid dungeons.)

[L0rd0fIvIetal]

im almost tempted to sub to wow again just to prove you wrong even if you run around the map all day long you would not get enough mats to lvl you profession unless you buy all the mats then no you would not be leving your skills in 3 days and current level is 525 i think

[MrDDT]

... No they are not. I never played anything but PvP servers.. Normal servers were way to easy.. So easy that you could probably have an infant playing the game and succeed.

So, I take it you played World of Warcraft, you would know that pretty much anyone can level a skill from 1 - 375 in a few days say 3 days power levelling tops. I never spend more than 1 or 2 days power levelling -ANY- craft and for my skill range I would NEVER do the hard recipes. They were just a waste of gold. A very much developed game, where it is even easier than it is in Xsyon to level your craft to maximum (3 expansions. The game is even easier than it started out to be - at least elites were elites that required a group back in Vanilla.)

(I stopped in WotLK simply got way to boring with instant collected mats when you eg. mined a vein and mini-instance raids with gear that surpassed most of their raid dungeons.)

You are calling them "hard" how about using the correct term. High level. Try leveling off a level 1 or 10 recipe or material in wow. Try level to 375 off first tier mats.
Then come talk to me. See how far you can get.

Stop trolling and stop trying to straight up lie about stuff you have no idea about. You are a fanboi and its not helping anything. In wow, if I could level up off the 1copper cloth items to max level people wouldnt even take but hours to level to max.
Yes you can level to 375 in 3 days prolly on a level 85 or twinked out toon. Try doing it with a level 1.

[VeryWiiTee]

Yeah, isn't it harder skilling something that is less common than something that is common?

If I'm so wrong, how come even levelling guides give you the easy to make recipes for that appropriate levelling range. All I was saying. It's not that different from Xsyon and you two go emo rage. It's quite hilarious to say the least.



This is skill lvl 1:
Elixir of Lion's Strength - 1 earth root, 1 silverleaf.
Minor Elixir of Defense - 2 silverleaf
Minor Health Potion - 1 silver leaf, 1 peace bloom.

Now you're telling me, that Elixir of Lion's Strength would be just as easy to make as Minor Health Potion?
- Even though that Earthroot is NOT common to any of the WoW starter zones. Is just brilliant.
I'd be doing the last two. Saving Earth Root for later when it becomes more common.

Let's jump up to skill 400 (even though they are mostly just discovered)
Elixir of Waterwalking - 3 Ethereal oils (takes 2 pygmy fish to make 1-2 bottles)
Elixir of Armor Piercing - 2 Tiger Lily
Elixir of Accuracy - 2 Tiger Lilies and 1 Talandra's Rose.

Again, which one is more easy to make. I'd be going for Armor Piercing if any to skill on.
Shall I continue? I mean, I have the proof that you would always go for the easiest to make item in your repertoire.

Corrupted by underline.. Great.

Like in Xsyon, I'm doing what is easiest to level a skill. I'm not going to do anything else, why would I waste resources on skilling something that is going to turn out as crap since I don't have the appropriate skill level.

[L0rd0fIvIetal]

god you are such a cluless turd and whats with you calling ppl emo's(i personaly hate emo's they whine all the time) tiger lily is hard to come by an its located in lvl68-80 zones there for making it hard to lvl up unless you buy from the market just stop making such a damn fool out of your self you wont win :)

[MrDDT]

Yeah, isn't it harder skilling something that is less common than something that is common?

If I'm so wrong, how come even levelling guides give you the easy to make recipes for that appropriate levelling range. All I was saying. It's not that different from Xsyon and you two go emo rage. It's quite hilarious to say the least.



This is skill lvl 1:
Elixir of Lion's Strength - 1 earth root, 1 silverleaf.
Minor Elixir of Defense - 2 silverleaf
Minor Health Potion - 1 silver leaf, 1 peace bloom.

Now you're telling me, that Elixir of Lion's Strength would be just as easy to make as Minor Health Potion?
- Even though that Earthroot is NOT common to any of the WoW starter zones. Is just brilliant.
I'd be doing the last two. Saving Earth Root for later when it becomes more common.

Let's jump up to skill 400 (even though they are mostly just discovered)
Elixir of Waterwalking - 3 Ethereal oils (takes 2 pygmy fish to make 1-2 bottles)
Elixir of Armor Piercing - 2 Tiger Lily
Elixir of Accuracy - 2 Tiger Lilies and 1 Talandra's Rose.

Again, which one is more easy to make. I'd be going for Armor Piercing if any to skill on.
Shall I continue? I mean, I have the proof that you would always go for the easiest to make item in your repertoire.

Corrupted by underline.. Great.

Like in Xsyon, I'm doing what is easiest to level a skill. I'm not going to do anything else, why would I waste resources on skilling something that is going to turn out as crap since I don't have the appropriate skill level.


Thanks for proving my point.

In Xsyon you jump to level 99, and you are still making minor health potions.
Why am I not making Elixirs of Armor Piercing? Instead of STILL making minor health potions. For equal skill gain as Elixirs of Armor Piercing.

You dont see a problem here?

[VeryWiiTee]

Mmkay it wasn't in the first post, but in the second post.

"I don't have to bother doing that, but I'm not saying I'm a fan of it either." I missed the but, shit happens.
So, I'm stating that I don't like the system.. I'm just saying it's not different from other games. You make the easiest recipe to skill, you don't take the hardest or most complicated. You do the one that is easiest to gather ingredients for, you don't do the recipe with hard-to-get ingredients (whether they are high levelled or low levelled does not matter. You usually have easy-to-get ingredients and hard-to-get materials.

You still haven't understood my point. It's not that WoW actually has skilling restriction or any other game for that matter. It is the fact that you use the easiest to make recipe and level with that. You level with it until you can no longer level with it, then you take the next recipe that you can skill on which is the easiest to make (sometimes you do a hard-to-get material recipe because you just happen to have the mats.), when you can't skill on that recipe any longer you pick the next recipe that is the easiest to skill with. If you don't do that, you are seriously wasting money and time.

I'm doing the exact (and by exact I mean I follow the same principals) same thing in Xsyon, except I don't have to change recipe because there is no restrictions. I don't like that, I find it somewhat strange, but it doesn't remove the fact that you do the same procedure in any other game. And when/if Xsyon gets restriction I'd be doing the exact same thing as I were in WoW not just following the principal. Choose the easiest recipe to skill on.

I never meant to compare this to logging. I meant to compare it to this statement "You do the easiest and get the same exp."

[MrDDT]

Mmkay it wasn't in the first post, but in the second post.

"I don't have to bother doing that, but I'm not saying I'm a fan of it either." I missed the but, shit happens.
So, I'm stating that I don't like the system.. I'm just saying it's not different from other games. You make the easiest recipe to skill, you don't take the hardest or most complicated. You do the one that is easiest to gather ingredients for, you don't do the recipe with hard-to-get ingredients (whether they are high levelled or low levelled does not matter. You usually have easy-to-get ingredients and hard-to-get materials.

You still haven't understood my point. It's not that WoW actually has skilling restriction or any other game for that matter. It is the fact that you use the easiest to make recipe and level with that. You level with it until you can no longer level with it, then you take the next recipe that you can skill on which is the easiest to make (sometimes you do a hard-to-get material recipe because you just happen to have the mats.), when you can't skill on that recipe any longer you pick the next recipe that is the easiest to skill with. If you don't do that, you are seriously wasting money and time.

I'm doing the exact (and by exact I mean I follow the same principals) same thing in Xsyon, except I don't have to change recipe because there is no restrictions. I don't like that, I find it somewhat strange, but it doesn't remove the fact that you do the same procedure in any other game. And when/if Xsyon gets restriction I'd be doing the exact same thing as I were in WoW not just following the principal. Choose the easiest recipe to skill on.

I never meant to compare this to logging. I meant to compare it to this statement "You do the easiest and get the same exp."


First its not true like that in ANY game.

You could make stuff you use to level also. Of course you will make items that are easiest to use IF you are not making stuff you can use and it happens to level the skill.

The point is you are not using the EASIEST one forever. Meaning, in WOW it would be like skinning level 1 mobs until you are 400 skinning skill.
Or you make crappy level 1 items until you are level 400, and make level 85 items to use. That makes no sense. WOW doesnt do it, NO game does it that I know of, not even UO.

[Willowhawk]

Not to fan the flames, :D but most of these comparisons don't work because the mechanics are different in each game. Xsyon uses a quality scale for existing items where most other games give you new higher level items as you level up and make the lower level items obsolete with little or no skill gain. So in this respect the "New Recipes" in Xsyon are still low level items until you increase your skill level there by rewarding you with a better quality (new) item. As a consequence the difficulty of gaining higher level skill increases as you get higher level. So in practical terms it works quite well.
Example is logging. Cutting firewood seems simple enough however at level 50 it only requires approximately 50 logs for a skill increase while at level 90 it requires approximately 210 logs cut into firewood for a single skill increase. I'd be lucky to get one or two skill gains in an evening. Now the question of weather cutting firewood is easier than cutting trees I can't say since I've only been cutting the felled logs. Perhaps there is more skill gain in felling the tree? But even if that were true it isn't harder than cutting firewood. So the question is, if people think cutting logs into firewood is the easiest way to level for the same experience, I don't see the difference.:confused: And I am not sure what skill method could be used to improve this.

[MrDDT]

Not to fan the flames, :D but most of these comparisons don't work because the mechanics are different in each game. Xsyon uses a quality scale for existing items where most other games give you new higher level items as you level up and make the lower level items obsolete with little or no skill gain. So in this respect the "New Recipes" in Xsyon are still low level items until you increase your skill level there by rewarding you with a better quality (new) item. As a consequence the difficulty of gaining higher level skill increases as you get higher level. So in practical terms it works quite well.
Example is logging. Cutting firewood seems simple enough however at level 50 it only requires approximately 50 logs for a skill increase while at level 90 it requires approximately 210 logs cut into firewood for a single skill increase. I'd be lucky to get one or two skill gains in an evening. Now the question of weather cutting firewood is easier than cutting trees I can't say since I've only been cutting the felled logs. Perhaps there is more skill gain in felling the tree? But even if that were true it isn't harder than cutting firewood. So the question is, if people think cutting logs into firewood is the easiest way to level for the same experience, I don't see the difference.:confused: And I am not sure what skill method could be used to improve this.


Doing firewood is WAY better than doing felling. First felling a tree at lower skill levels takes 30 seconds. Doing firewood takes 5s. For the same skill gain.
Plus you can do firewood until you are level 100. Thats the problem there is no need to train on harder stuff.

Its better expressed by say, toolcrafting.
I could make wood needles 100000 of them and be a MASTER TOOLCRAFTER in all tools now. Yet the only thing Ive ever made was wood needles. Does that make any sense? Sure not everything can be real in game, but it also hurts econ, and make the game seem more of a grind.

[VeryWiiTee]

Of course you will make items that are easiest to use IF you are not making stuff you can use and it happens to level the skill.

And that was just my point really. I never use a skill to create something I can use while levelling. It is waste of materials as you can find way better items - regularly in instances provided the game runs with instance system and not an open dungeon system as EQ did/does.
So in my case it is just a simple I use the cheapest recipe, as I would do in Xsyon and I level on it till I no longer can. The difference is that in Xsyon I can keep levelling it whereas most games will put up a levelling restriction. Both ways are equally boring to me.

If you want a fun crafting system it needs to be a tiny mini-game in itself.
Vanguard did a relatively fun one. You collected the resources needed, depending on your skill level you had different enhancement methods, some would give huge boosts to quality some would give lesser boosts to quality, same went for crafting progress it would give you. You had a bar, your hp for the crafting, a progress bar and a quality bar.
You wanted A quality goods and that wasn't always easy to get. Different items liked different enhancement methods more than others.

But it was time consuming. REALLY time consuming. That would be my ideal crafting system. I hate click'n'craft a perfect item crafting systems.
Like logging in this game should be done as FFXIV. Directional swings to control the fall, the quality, amount etc.

Actually Willowhawk got a good explanation for the crafting system. It is based on raising quality, less skill restrictions whereas most other MMO games do a set quality and then you gain better items.

[MrDDT]

And that was just my point really. I never use a skill to create something I can use while levelling. It is waste of materials as you can find way better items - regularly in instances provided the game runs with instance system and not an open dungeon system as EQ did/does.
So in my case it is just a simple I use the cheapest recipe, as I would do in Xsyon and I level on it till I no longer can. The difference is that in Xsyon I can keep levelling it whereas most games will put up a levelling restriction. Both ways are equally boring to me.



I put in bold the problem. Right there is the problem. It breaks econ, and it makes it more of a grind. So instead of striving to get higher level recipes, and doing higher level items. Im sitting here going "Yeah Im going to log in today and do another 3000 needles so I can level up my tool-craft" instead of thinking what recipes you going to get today that are higher level and better, what types of new materials will they require, what can I make that might be useful in these new levels.

Vanguard has a good system. I dont see that happening anytime soon. What I said to do can be done, I explained how it can be done. Its a much better system, and does a lot of good things. And yes it would make crafting a LOT less boring just doing that simple thing of making it so you need to use higher level stuff to level up faster. It gives people better choices to make.
I can make 3000 needles that take handles. OR I can make these hammers which will give me 3x the skill but are harder to make.

At least people will be rewarded for items they DO make that are harder. I make tools all the time for trade and for my clan. I should be rewarded better for doing things that are harder and needed like that.

[VeryWiiTee]

See such a system, where reward is based on difficulty would be appropriate! And it wouldn't be that hard to code no.

Yeah, but Willowhawk set it perfectly.
You shouldn't be thinking in levels and getting better items the higher you are. You should be thinking in quality and the higher level you are (the?!) better quality.

[MrDDT]

See such a system, where reward is based on difficulty would be appropriate! And it wouldn't be that hard to code no.

Yeah, but Willowhawk set it perfectly.
You shouldn't be thinking in levels and getting better items the higher you are. You should be thinking in quality and the higher level you are (the?!) better quality.

I am thinking of it, and the fact its still a bad idea to make needles 10000. Then POOF Im master toolcraft and I can make screwdrivers and saws just as well as I can make wood needles. Even though Ive only ever made wood needles.

I dont need it to be 100% real, my point is just that its not good for econ, fun factor, and skilling to have it so you can train off 1 tool from 5 to 100 skill.