PDA

View Full Version : Feedback Request: carts/mounts transport



dezgard
07-07-2011, 12:10 AM
Hello Xsyonians!

I would like some feedback on this subject "carts/mounts transport" give as much details as you can.

Carts what should they do?
How should they do it?
Do you ride in it?
Is it faster or slower?
Do they carry more items?
Do they carry more items and move faster?
Is it a wheel barrow (people powered) or horse (animal powered)?
Should it be faster or slower thank running or walking?
What happens when you die does it stay behind or or do you lose it?
And what type of transport would you expect to see?
So basically what you think carts/mounts transport should be.

Please be as detailed as possible.

Thanks.

Shaggy
07-07-2011, 12:15 AM
Woodcrafters / metalworkers should make them. Need to make wheels, the cart bay itself, etc. Different bays will allow the cart to transport different things (log cart, scrap cart, general trade cart, etc). Different wheels might be better for certain terrain. The recipe to build the thing and have it appear on the ground in front of you is the same but based on the types of materials you put in, you see that represented in the cart. Maybe some can be horse, cow, or ox drawn?

fatboy21007
07-07-2011, 12:17 AM
Woodcrafters / metalworkers should make them. Need to make wheels, the cart bay itself, etc. Different bays will allow the cart to transport different things (log cart, scrap cart, general trade cart, etc). Different wheels might be better for certain terrain. The recipe to build the thing and have it appear on the ground in front of you is the same but based on the types of materials you put in, you see that represented in the cart. Maybe some can be horse, cow, or ox drawn?

pretty much this fellas idea., i mean only other way to do is have a player pulling the cart or some magical engine to run it. It should be able to carry a very large amount of stuff and it should be about id say 60% the speed of a player runing ingame at full speed. Should be able to go over any terrain cept up steep mountains and should be able to float across rivers or atleast have a way for them to cross it

Shaggy
07-07-2011, 12:47 AM
There should be player drawn carts as well, but you should definitely have to take breaks now and then. Carrying a cart should also increase your strength.

I was also thinking about special little one or two person carts that are drawn by wolves or something to that effect that are meant for pure human transport, nothing more.

dezgard
07-07-2011, 12:57 AM
Carts: Wheel barrow

Pushed by the player.
Same speed as walking.
Holds maybe total weight of players carry weight X 3.
If you die its left where it is.
Pushing it adds to strength.

Mounts: Bear Cart

Pulled by a bear.
Same as player walking speed.
Holds maybe 500-100kg.
If you die bear cart is left where it is (maybe the bear can wander a little).
Using it costs meat for the bear (bear will follow you).
limited to roads and maybe grass.

mrwooj
07-07-2011, 02:28 AM
I think Dezgard was on the right track. I tweaked his general ideas abit and came up with this.........

Carts: Wheel barrow

Pushed by the player
Same speed as walking
Holds maybe total weight of players carry weight X 3 and can stack timber in it
If you die its left where it is and can be fully looted or the whole thing taken by another player
Pushing it adds to strength

Mounts: Wild Horse

Ridden by players
Faster than running and consume stamina slower than running
Can be killed by animals and other players but regen health as per players
Can carry an almost encumbered player plus have 2 packs on their back with the same carrying capacity as 2 pouches
If you die horse is left where it is (maybe can wander a little).
Can feed them grass but can also eat grass from the ground (this does not deplete the grass though) - this way they can be corraled in pens on your land
Not limited by terrain but are slower when not on roads in the same way players are
Raises Agility

dezgard
07-07-2011, 05:49 AM
OK to clear it up a little.

1) Why do you want carts/mounts?.
2) What purpose do you need them for?.
3) For hauling large loads or faster travel or both
4) Be realistic about what you request i.e something that can be done in 1-2 weeks.
5) If you had to choose from both carts and mounts what would you choose? hauling carts or fast mounts (note mounts would hold little in the way of resources)

Jadzia
07-07-2011, 06:15 AM
I'd like them for both reasons, carrying large amount of stuffs and faster travel. Running is slow in the game, with the new lands it may take 1-2 hours to get from one point to another, or even more.
Why do we have to choose ? Can't a fast mount carry a good amount of resources ?
I'd prefer mounts over carts, a mount which can carry many resources and runs faster than a player. If the player dies the mount should stay at that spot.

Later on different mounts with different carrying capacity and speed...bears can carry more but deers run faster.

VeryWiiTee
07-07-2011, 06:32 AM
I think the horse idea might be a bit too overpowered. I don't know.

1) I would like a mount so it is possible to travel across the map and trade/explore/hunt/gather without it taking half a day.
2) I need them to carry more stuff and to get from point a to b faster.
3) both
4) Request will go below this.
5) I can't choose between those two.

Carts:
- Able to have both people and animals pushing it. (people to begin with)
- If a person is hauling the cart, the cart can only go by walking speed. It can carry twice the amount a person otherwise would be able to carry and you would be able to fill up bundles in it.
- Make different kinds. Metal Wheels increases the durability, but it makes the cart heavier thus it travels a bit slower, a wooden cart doesn't last as long, but on the other side it is lighter and thus travel a bit faster.
- Let it increase strength.
- Can be left behind or is left behind when a player dies.

Mounts:
- Can only carry an extra bag and a resource stack. (gives you a total of two bags and two resource stacks). (Can be depend on the mount - bears can carry more, but runs slower, mules can run faster but carry less.)
- Runs a lot faster then a normal person (Can be depend on the mount)
- Needs to be fed or it will run wild.
- Can graze when the player is dead.

AndyI
07-07-2011, 07:05 AM
OK to clear it up a little.

1) Why do you want carts/mounts?.
2) What purpose do you need them for?.
3) For hauling large loads or faster travel or both
4) Be realistic about what you request i.e something that can be done in 1-2 weeks.
5) If you had to choose from both carts and mounts what would you choose? hauling carts or fast mounts (note mounts would hold little in the way of resources)

Why not a phased feature set targetting the common aspects of both in 1-2 weeks and then additional features every 1-2 weeks thereafter until we have both?

Initial energy use to start pulling it will be high but then reduced as inertia and momentum reduce the energy use. Could be as simple as a cargo variant of the hand taxi's you see in Asia. Beneficial effects of fulcrums etc. for reducing effort, friction, weight etc. Physics. Should take more energy downhill on steep inclines due to preventing it from rolling away and more uphill but much less on flat land and roads and much less on roads than flat land as no bumps etc.

Ideally therefore you would need to take a break after pulling it up a steep incline before you then get moving again so you'd have to plan your route. It would also prevent the over use of carts as they would be most practical between tribe settlements that have connecting roads. Basically people have to think about their use.

The cart should be as detailed a crafting experience as possible, broken up into lots of recipes so it can be extended into a rich crafting experience as more and more varieties of wheels etc. are added.
i.e. Wheels would be spokes, hub, rim, rim plate (metal strip that prevents the wheel rim wearing out quickly)
Body, axels etc.
Better types and materials would add to weight allowance and durability but start with a basic set that can be extended. Then adding mounts and more advanced features later on will be easier.

Larsa
07-07-2011, 07:46 AM
OK to clear it up a little.

1) Why do you want carts/mounts?.
2) What purpose do you need them for?.
3) For hauling large loads or faster travel or both
4) Be realistic about what you request i.e something that can be done in 1-2 weeks.
5) If you had to choose from both carts and mounts what would you choose? hauling carts or fast mounts (note mounts would hold little in the way of resources)

1. I do not care much for mounts. Terrain in Xsyon is too rugged to make fast travel on mounts believeable. I like carts for transporting goods.
2. Transporting goods, let me get 10 logs or 100 bricks from somewhere to my camp.
3. In my opinion: only for hauling large loads.
4. I like your wheel barrow and bear cart suggestion. I'd be happy if we only got the wheel cart for a start because I assume that for the beer (nice typo :) cart we would need taming.
5. Carts, carts, carts!

MrDDT
07-07-2011, 10:46 AM
Hello Xsyonians!

I would like some feedback on this subject "carts/mounts transport" give as much details as you can.

Carts what should they do?
How should they do it?
Do you ride in it?
Is it faster or slower?
Do they carry more items?
Do they carry more items and move faster?
Is it a wheel barrow (people powered) or horse (animal powered)?
Should it be faster or slower thank running or walking?
What happens when you die does it stay behind or or do you lose it?
And what type of transport would you expect to see?
So basically what you think carts/mounts transport should be.

Please be as detailed as possible.

Thanks.

Carts: Wheel barrow

Pushed by the player.
Same speed as walking.
Holds maybe total weight of players carry weight X 3.
If you die its left where it is.
Pushing it adds to strength.

Mounts: Bear Cart

Pulled by a bear.
Same as player walking speed.
Holds maybe 500-100kg.
If you die bear cart is left where it is (maybe the bear can wander a little).
Using it costs meat for the bear (bear will follow you).
limited to roads and maybe grass.

OK to clear it up a little.

1) Why do you want carts/mounts?.
2) What purpose do you need them for?.
3) For hauling large loads or faster travel or both
4) Be realistic about what you request i.e something that can be done in 1-2 weeks.
5) If you had to choose from both carts and mounts what would you choose? hauling carts or fast mounts (note mounts would hold little in the way of resources)


My ideas for carts.

There should be a few types of carts.

*Animal pulled carts
*Human pulled carts
*Animal pulled with human rider* Later
*Wagon types which would be used for transport of humans* Later

Wagons should be faster than running, but not faster than sprinting.
All other carts should be UP TO running speed but not faster. (Even if human pulled and sprinting).
Wagons should be limited to types of terrain they can run over. Roads, grass, dirt, rock.
Other carts should be best on Roads, but also able to go over anything other than water. Being there isnt a lot of options for bridges, right now they all should cross water until we can build bridges better.
Carts should be based on ratio of weight to speed. Meaning more weight slower you go up til you point where you cant go anymore. There should be a wide range of how much it should hold and be at normal speed. Right now say we can carry 50kg without slowing us down. Animal carts should beable to pull 10x that, while human ones should only pull 5x that. If it has 2 animals pulling it, then it would be 1.5x per animal. Meaning 2 would be 1.5x, 3 would be 2x, 4 would be 2.5x.
Animals should be based off a certain type. Meaning, say basic pulling animal = deer. So a deer would be 1x, while a bear would be 1.5x, a dog would be .5x. As more animals come into the game you can put a x to them.

So if you have (1) deer pulling a cart, it would be 1x10x50kg. = 500kg, (2) deer would be 1.5x1x10x50kg = 750kg. (1) bear would be 1x1.5x10x50kg = 750kg, while (2) bears would be 1.5x1.5x10x50kg 1125kg.

These numbers can be tweaked but you see how the math would work. You can have different types of carts limited by # of animals able to pull. Also fast carts vs big slow carts.
So maybe fast carts max out at 500kg, while a large one would max out at 2000kg BUT a fast one can go = to running speed, while a large can only go up to 30% running speed max. Also put minimum base speeds. Like the range they care normally moved.
So maybe a fast cart normally travels at 75% running speed under 50kg to 400kg weight. While a large one would normally go 40% while under 100kg to 1500kg.

Carts should carry more items than a human basket.

Of course if you die the cart should stay behind.
Later would be nice if carts had locks on them.


I dont want to see mounts until we get ranged attacking. Else there would never be any type of PVP.

Dubanka
07-07-2011, 11:45 AM
human pulled cart..a la rickshaw.
http://www.princeton.edu/~lsilver/photosindia/1218humrickshaw.jpg
moderate holding capacity before triggering additional encumberance.
basically would function as a basket with wheels.
use: transporting moderate amounts of materials (ie. 2-3x what would normally be required to trigger movement penalty) rapidly (ie. no movement penalty)
not for: transportation of large bulk items (ie. large logs)
crafted using wood working.

Human pushed cart...
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/148/347087112_22e6198541.jpg
High carry capacity with moderate encumberance penalty.
table with wheels. pushed.
because it is pushed using this would cause the char to incur a moderate movt penalty (ie. 40% encumbered).
allows 8-10x normal inventory space...including large items (like logs)
use: transporting large quantities of bulk materials. Incurs movement penalty but does not incur stamina penalty.

mrwooj
07-07-2011, 12:01 PM
1) Why do you want carts/mounts?.
2) What purpose do you need them for?.
3) For hauling large loads or faster travel or both
4) Be realistic about what you request i.e something that can be done in 1-2 weeks.
5) If you had to choose from both carts and mounts what would you choose? hauling carts or fast mounts (note mounts would hold little in the way of resources)

1. mounts = faster travel carts = large carrying capacity
2. mount - to get from a to b much faster cart - to gather large amounts of resourses
3. one for each
4. fast mounts with a little extra capacity are my first priority
5. fast mounts

VeryWiiTee
07-07-2011, 12:44 PM
Why not a phased feature set targetting the common aspects of both in 1-2 weeks and then additional features every 1-2 weeks thereafter until we have both?

Initial energy use to start pulling it will be high but then reduced as inertia and momentum reduce the energy use. Could be as simple as a cargo variant of the hand taxi's you see in Asia. Beneficial effects of fulcrums etc. for reducing effort, friction, weight etc. Physics. Should take more energy downhill on steep inclines due to preventing it from rolling away and more uphill but much less on flat land and roads and much less on roads than flat land as no bumps etc.

Ideally therefore you would need to take a break after pulling it up a steep incline before you then get moving again so you'd have to plan your route. It would also prevent the over use of carts as they would be most practical between tribe settlements that have connecting roads. Basically people have to think about their use.

The cart should be as detailed a crafting experience as possible, broken up into lots of recipes so it can be extended into a rich crafting experience as more and more varieties of wheels etc. are added.
i.e. Wheels would be spokes, hub, rim, rim plate (metal strip that prevents the wheel rim wearing out quickly)
Body, axels etc.
Better types and materials would add to weight allowance and durability but start with a basic set that can be extended. Then adding mounts and more advanced features later on will be easier.

Mounts would be much easier to add I believe. It would just require animal training (which should be in the works). Animals already possess much of the features requested (their own inventory etc.) as far as I understood when I asked which would be the easiest to implement fast :P.

Added after 6 minutes:


My ideas for carts.

There should be a few types of carts.

*Animal pulled carts
*Human pulled carts
*Animal pulled with human rider* Later
*Wagon types which would be used for transport of humans* Later

Wagons should be faster than running, but not faster than sprinting.
All other carts should be UP TO running speed but not faster. (Even if human pulled and sprinting).
Wagons should be limited to types of terrain they can run over. Roads, grass, dirt, rock.
Other carts should be best on Roads, but also able to go over anything other than water. Being there isnt a lot of options for bridges, right now they all should cross water until we can build bridges better.
Carts should be based on ratio of weight to speed. Meaning more weight slower you go up til you point where you cant go anymore. There should be a wide range of how much it should hold and be at normal speed. Right now say we can carry 50kg without slowing us down. Animal carts should beable to pull 10x that, while human ones should only pull 5x that. If it has 2 animals pulling it, then it would be 1.5x per animal. Meaning 2 would be 1.5x, 3 would be 2x, 4 would be 2.5x.
Animals should be based off a certain type. Meaning, say basic pulling animal = deer. So a deer would be 1x, while a bear would be 1.5x, a dog would be .5x. As more animals come into the game you can put a x to them.

So if you have (1) deer pulling a cart, it would be 1x10x50kg. = 500kg, (2) deer would be 1.5x1x10x50kg = 750kg. (1) bear would be 1x1.5x10x50kg = 750kg, while (2) bears would be 1.5x1.5x10x50kg 1125kg.

These numbers can be tweaked but you see how the math would work. You can have different types of carts limited by # of animals able to pull. Also fast carts vs big slow carts.
So maybe fast carts max out at 500kg, while a large one would max out at 2000kg BUT a fast one can go = to running speed, while a large can only go up to 30% running speed max. Also put minimum base speeds. Like the range they care normally moved.
So maybe a fast cart normally travels at 75% running speed under 50kg to 400kg weight. While a large one would normally go 40% while under 100kg to 1500kg.

Carts should carry more items than a human basket.

Of course if you die the cart should stay behind.
Later would be nice if carts had locks on them.


I dont want to see mounts until we get ranged attacking. Else there would never be any type of PVP.

The ranged might be a bit of a long shot, but I gotta agree ;)..

I really get the idea and agree with it. T'is basicly what I imagined, just more.. Complex described. Except two animals don't pull the weight of 1 animal, but twice the pulling no (1 horse = 1 horse power, 2 horses = 2 horse powers.) Meaning two horses can carry twice the amount of goods at the same speed of 1 horse (actually I have no clue, but quite shure this was how it got explained to me when I was a kid and still curious about the world :P) That is just if you want a realism factor in it.
2 Bears could pull double of what 1 bear would be able to do (think OX :P it helps..)

stonedogg1
07-07-2011, 01:02 PM
You want something realistic that can be put in in 1-2 weeks:

Wheel Barrow
1) need to modeled
2) need recipe (and new wheel recipe(s) that can be used later for other things) - Dev's choose skill craft(s) & materials
3) Capacity = same as storage bin (Note: resources CAN be stacked in wheel barrow - use same coding as the UI for the toon carrying resources on back - 1 storage bin equivallent can hold 50 stacks of 4 resources, 50 logs cut short, NO logs cut long, NO branches)
4) Fully Loaded Movement - same as running with minimal/no stamina drain (terrain should SERIOUSLY affect speed)
5) Right click asks "open" or "use"
6) Wheel Barrow contents should be full loot at player death (wheelbarrow could have modified basket coding for permission on "use", but public access for "open") - this can be changed, I'm not sure how I feel about this.
7) Can float across water with above average movement/stamina penalties to player using it.

Push Cart
1) need to modeled
2) need recipe(s) - Dev's choose skill craft(s) & materials
3) Capacity = same as 4 storage bins (Note: resources CAN be stacked in cart - use same coding as the UI for the toon carrying resources on back - 1 storage bin equivallent can hold 50 stacks of 4 resources, 50 logs cut short, (some number of) logs cut long, (some number of) branches)
4) Fully Loaded Movement - same as walking with minimal/no stamina drain (terrain should SERIOUSLY affect speed) - 2 people could use at same time for 1.5x speed bonus (1st person controls until 2nd person stops using or 1st stops using transferring use to the 2nd person)
5) Right click asks "open" or "use"
6) Cart contents should be full loot at player death (cart/sled could have modified basket coding for permission on "use", but public access for "open") - this can be changed, I'm not sure how I feel about this.
7) Can float across water with above average movement/stamina penalties to player(s) that are using it.

Pull Sled
1) need to modeled
2) need recipe(s) - Dev's choose skill craft(s) & materials
3) Capacity = same as 2 storage bins (Note: resources CAN be stacked in sled - use same coding as the UI for the toon carrying resources on back - 1 storage bin equivallent can hold 50 stacks of 4 resources, 50 logs cut short, (some number of) logs cut long, (some number of) branches)
4) Movement - normal 40% encumbered player movement with normal stamina drain (terrain affects speeds normally)
5) Right click asks "open" or "use"
6) Sled contents should be full loot at player death (sled could have modified basket coding for permission on "use", but public access for "open") - this can be changed, I'm not sure how I feel about this.
7) Cannot float across water (but can be carried across by player (in backpack space) while empty.

Boats
1) need to modeled
2) need recipe(s) - Dev's choose skill craft(s) & materials - there are tons of "boat" options that can be added later (bigger, more capacity, faster, multiple players using, etc...)
3) Capacity = same as 6 storage bins (Note: resources CAN be stacked in sled - use same coding as the UI for the toon carrying resources on back - 1 storage bin equivallent can hold 50 stacks of 4 resources, 50 logs cut short, (some number of) logs cut long, (some number of) branches)
4) Movement - running speed with no stamina loss
5) Right click asks "open" or "use"
6) Boat contents should be full loot at player death (boat could have modified basket coding for permission on "use", but public access for "open") - this can be changed, I'm not sure how I feel about this.
7) Can only be used on water, but can be carried across land (same coding as long logs) by player while empty.

Having listed these with the death penalty comment, I am loath to see these items get stolen, but am a big fan of realism. What to do, what to do...

I think the hardest part of incorporating all 4 in the next 2 weeks would be the modelling & animation.

Each item has it's advantages & disadvantages.

Added after 7 minutes:

ALSO...

I would like to see mounts, but I would like to see mounts done correctly (not possible in 2 weeks).

I do not want to see people riding bears, deer, cyotes, moose, wombats, etc... That's just not realistic.

Horses, donkeys, cows, oxen - domestic creatures found around Lake Tahoe.

I'll wait until the developers say "We have mounts modeled, coded, animated & ready to go in game in 2 weeks. Do you have any suggestions on using mounts/beasts of burden?" before I post my 2 cents on that.

MrDDT
07-07-2011, 04:32 PM
Nice post stonedogg1 (Dave).

I would love to see this.

VeryWiiTee
07-07-2011, 05:17 PM
I would like to see mounts, but I would like to see mounts done correctly (not possible in 2 weeks).

I do not want to see people riding bears, deer, cyotes, moose, wombats, etc... That's just not realistic.

Horses, donkeys, cows, oxen - domestic creatures found around Lake Tahoe.

I'll wait until the developers say "We have mounts modeled, coded, animated & ready to go in game in 2 weeks. Do you have any suggestions on using mounts/beasts of burden?" before I post my 2 cents on that.

Why can't we ride bears, mule deers and native animals already in-game. They are coded already as models, you would have to do new animations and perhaps some recoding and mount coding, but that should be about it?

I mean, in Asia you rode Elephants.. In desert countries and north Africa you used Camels. In the Andes you used Llamas. It's mostly the European countries that has used Horses extensively (and north American Indians - to some extent).
- I don't see the problem in riding a Mule Deer, at all, a bear might be more tricky realism wise, but if you think of it as an aggressive animal, you're quite wrong. They're quite peaceful if you leave them to themselves and they're not with cubs.
Of course you don't ride a Coyote or Raccoon, they simply don't have the body mass for your weight.
They'd be squeezed kittens..

Book
07-07-2011, 06:29 PM
I'd have to agree that rather than seeing a rushed job to push it out in 1 or 2 weeks with what is available... I'd rather it take the time that it takes to do it right.

Bears as mounts doesn't feel right to me.
I think some Scandinavian cultures really did use reindeer as rides... but I dunno, I'd very much like to see horses.

I can see what Larsa is saying about the ruggedness of the terrain, but there are solutions. No thoroughbreds... broken leg before you get out of your tribe land, BUT!

Icelandic horses. Great for these conditions. Very very strong for their size (rode some in Vermont), and the small size makes them great for rugged environments with unstable footing.

Morgan Horses. Bred especially for the rugged areas of Vermont. May not compare in scale to Tahoe, never been to Tahoe, but those horses do well for themselves in the Vermont mountains. Would still prefer an Icelandic horse though in that kind of terrain.

I had kind of been thinking that in the very long term, it would be nice to have different horse breeds so traders can differentiate themselves. A trusty all-around quarter horse... a Belgian to pull goods... an Oldenburg to rule the battlefield.

That's probably going too far though :) Quarter horses would likely be most accurate to the wild horses in the areas... Icelandic horses would get my vote.

I'd also like the ability (someday) of pulling one horse while riding another. Good for when we have to go retrieve a mount, and as pack horse.

Not too much more to add to the things that have already been said. Some great ideas here.

Aiden
07-07-2011, 07:25 PM
Carts and other forms of transportation should be implemented for both trade and travel. I like the ideas people are coming up with so far.

Instead of limiting the cart/vehicle usage, why not boost the speed of movement if on roads (natural or player-made)...so carts are 60% everywhere except roads..where they're 90%.
(This provides not only the necessary transportation options, but many opportunities for player interaction - bandits, mercenaries, guards, etc...and organized caravans).

Wheel barrows or small player-powered carts should be able to transport 3x player limit...and/or a solid stack of small logs...

Large carts can be customized for certain things...some move faster (pack mules/bears/horses) but carry less...some slower (wagons, etc) but carry much more...

I would DEFINITELY choose some form of cart/vehicle over mounts at this point....travel is fast enough on foot at the moment...unless you're trying to carry stuff..

Thanks!

ivolta
07-07-2011, 09:34 PM
I think we need to keep it simple. I don't think we need mounts at this point. There are too many decisions with mounts and for me the issue is carrying heavy loads, not faster travel. I would like to see some form of cart or pack animal for carrying heavy loads. I would like to be able to get 200 bricks, five long logs, or 20 short logs back to my place in a reasonable amount of time. I have no problem with the cart or animal being fully lootable if I die, and I am not looking for faster than running travel, in fact I wouldn't mind if speed was reduced, say to 60% of running speed. A cart, a harness, a travois, a wheel barrow; any of these items would work. I do think whatever we come up with needs to be able to handle rough terrain, because there is so much of it, at least in my area. Limiting the method to roads or grass would do me no good.

Dubanka
07-07-2011, 09:35 PM
Why can't we ride bears, mule deers and native animals already in-game. They are coded already as models, you would have to do new animations and perhaps some recoding and mount coding, but that should be about it?

I mean, in Asia you rode Elephants.. In desert countries and north Africa you used Camels. In the Andes you used Llamas. It's mostly the European countries that has used Horses extensively (and north American Indians - to some extent).
- I don't see the problem in riding a Mule Deer, at all, a bear might be more tricky realism wise, but if you think of it as an aggressive animal, you're quite wrong. They're quite peaceful if you leave them to themselves and they're not with cubs.
Of course you don't ride a Coyote or Raccoon, they simply don't have the body mass for your weight.
They'd be squeezed kittens..

uh have you seen a mule deer?
a large muley is 250 pounds. you're not going to ride it...unless you're like 50 pounds.

now you could ride an elk or a moose...

you're not going to ride a bear...their body just isn't shaped right. You might use one as a pack animal (just like you might a deer...as llamas are used in that manner as well) but riding one? not gonna happen.
and black bears are fairly docile...grizzlies and the like...completely different story there.

MrDDT
07-07-2011, 10:22 PM
I think we need to keep it simple. I don't think we need mounts at this point. There are too many decisions with mounts and for me the issue is carrying heavy loads, not faster travel. I would like to see some form of cart or pack animal for carrying heavy loads. I would like to be able to get 200 bricks, five long logs, or 20 short logs back to my place in a reasonable amount of time. I have no problem with the cart or animal being fully lootable if I die, and I am not looking for faster than running travel, in fact I wouldn't mind if speed was reduced, say to 60% of running speed. A cart, a harness, a travois, a wheel barrow; any of these items would work. I do think whatever we come up with needs to be able to handle rough terrain, because there is so much of it, at least in my area. Limiting the method to roads or grass would do me no good.


Why would roads and grass do you no good?

Osirrus
07-10-2011, 05:53 PM
Carts what should they do?
Carts should be for moving bulk materials like large amounts of bricks long logs and multiple baskets all full of various stuff

How should they do it?
there should be a flat space on the cart where you can place items (so others can see if you are carry logs, baskets. brick piles w/e)

Do you ride in it?
i would love to see various types of "cart" ranging from
1. a simple wheel barrow/drag sled that everyone can make and use if they desire.
2. a larger four wheeled human powered wheel barrow that multiple people can push

there should be several different version of the hand carts some with wheel move faster but carry less others with sled carry more but move slow etc

the first two^ everyone should have access to but the following should be rare

3. a dog sled (eventually when we get animal taming) high taming skill means more dogs can be added? more dogs = sled travels faster?
4. a slow speed heavy goods wagon pulled by horse/ox capable of hauling very heavy loads again same as dog sled more animal pulling = capable of carrying more weight
5. a high speed light goods wagon. more animal = more speed
6. a stage coach that can carry multiple people over long distance

Is it faster or slower?
carts should allow you to move larger amounts of materials so the humsn powered ones dont neccassarily need to be faster. but the ones pulled by animals see above^

Do they carry more items?
yes this is the reason everyone want carts. but with a flat stackable area on the cart people can chose to stack a load of logs or several baskets for example

Do they carry more items and move faster?
some of the very rare ones should. but should reqiure hard to get parts multiple animals pulling etc

Is it a wheel barrow (people powered) or horse (animal powered)?
both. many and varied

Should it be faster or slower thank running or walking?
they should have encumberance levels like characters do now. load too much and you slow them down.

there should always be ways of catching up to a cart to pvp it

What happens when you die does it stay behind or or do you lose it?
when you die the items on the cart should become lootable in exactly the same way as the items on a player character becomes lootable on death. but once the timer has counted down the player and the cart should respawn back at the totem with whatever was on the cart - in order for that not to be exploited death penalties have to be in place at same time

And what type of transport would you expect to see?
horses oxen bears donkeys etc anything big enough to be ridden and all should be able to be filled up with items and lead on foot as a pack mule

would be cool to see chariots, stage coaches etc

So basically what you think carts/mounts transport should be.
in a nutshell a way to move either the player character. groups of players and large amounts of heavy good around the map quicker.

but should also at the same time provide PvP opportunities

risk and reward

do you risk moving everything on a cart/sled all at once by yourself or with your tribe protecting you. a cart could/should be a viable pvp target. and could help create pvp hotspots, stimulate tribal warfare etc

China
07-10-2011, 07:11 PM
Excellent ideas Osirrus - this is the way I invision it also.

I think that the terrain should affect the carts in the same manner that it does the character. They should be able to traverse the world on roads and the rest of the terrain, but just like a charater does, ie manuever around rocks and trees, would crash & burn if driven off a cliff, faster on roads, much slower up slopes and mountains.

I'm not certain about rivers and streams - perhaps slowly float? or at least slower than a character swimming.

MrDDT
07-10-2011, 09:24 PM
What happens when you die does it stay behind or or do you lose it?
when you die the items on the cart should become lootable in exactly the same way as the items on a player character becomes lootable on death. but once the timer has counted down the player and the cart should respawn back at the totem with whatever was on the cart - in order for that not to be exploited death penalties have to be in place at same time


For the love of god NO.

This would be so exploited. I mean geez, I can see it now alts could take back like 5x what they take now haha.

NorCalGooey
07-10-2011, 10:29 PM
Exactly, alts you dont care about the death penalty.

b_ulam
07-12-2011, 10:51 AM
Rothschilds Carts
I know the following wall of text is intimidating, but please read on and post suggestions, because im sure i didn't get everything right
IMO
Carts should be composed of wheels and hulls which are built seperately then combined.

-A wheel would be an item which fits into a back slot, hence one can carry up to 4 of the same wheel.

-A hull would be a project which is build and has wheels added after it is built.

-Each hull will have a number of wheel spots based on its design.

-Wheels break and need to be replace periodically. A cart must have all whells the same type.

-The wheels used will affect how and where the cart moves.

-The hull used will affect what and how much can be carried.

-Each Hull with have a number of slots in which either a basket or a group of items which stack into the 'back' slot may be carried

There should be multiple different wheel types. Unless specified, The wheels only travel on road and grey road safely. You can drive your cart anywhere, but if you drive it onto the wrong terrain too much the wheels will break and need to be replaced. Even shallow water will damages wheels unless otherwise specified.

-Where wheels breakdown will be Poisson distributed over how far you've gone with normal mean breakdown at 1024 meters.

- Foragers Stone Wheel
- Tools: Hammer, Chisel, craft knife
- Materials: 1Rock, 1twigs / wheel
- Advantage: Ability to travers Grass/Branches (1/2 break frequency on grass/ branches)
- Handicap: Slow (3/4 run speed)

- Scrappers Metal Wheel
- T: Pliers, Wrench, Hammer
- M: 2mediummetalsheets 1metalrod 4bolts / wheel
- A: Wheel Durability, Ability to travel on Stone most efficiently (1/2 norm break frequency on stone)
- D: slow (3/4 run speed)

- Scavengers Plastic Wheel
- T: Pliers, Bevel, screwdriver
- M: 2mediumplasticsheets, 1plasticrod, 4screws, 2 junk plastic / wheel
- A: Ability to travel through shallow water (1/2 norm break frequency in water)
- D: Fragile (breaks 4/3 as often)

- Scavengers Rubber Wheel
- T: CraftKnife, punch, bevel
- M: 4Rubber scrap, 1 plastic rod, 2 junk plastic / wheel
- A: Can traverse all terain, high durability (3/4 break frequency)
- D: very very slow (1/2 run speed)

- Pioneers Wooden Wheel
- T: Hammer, Chisel, Plane, Screwdriver
- M: 4mediumwoodsheets, 1mediumwoodpole, 4screws
- A: best Speed (1 run speed)
- D: fragile (4/3 break frequency)

- Weavers Heavy Grass Plate Wheel
- T: Weaver, Lasher
- M: 1HeavyGrassPlate, 2twine, 1branch /wheel
- A: Easily repaired in the field, the damaged wheel can be repaired as opposed to replaced
- D: fragile, slow (3/4 run speed, 4/3 break frequency)

- the hulls should vary in amount and type of materials they can carry.
The cart will not prevent you from loading too much onto it, but overburdening your cart will increase the rate at which your wheels decay.

-Wheelbarrow Hulls (Faster, 1 man, 1 wheel)

-Metal Wheelbarrow Hull (1 wheel)
-T: Pliers, Wrench
-M: 20 bolts, 4 medium metal Sheets, 2 medium metal handles
-4 back/pack slots

-PLastic Wheelbarrow Hull (1wheel)
-T: Craft KNife, Scredriver
-M: 10 screws, 4 medium plastic sheets, 2 medium plastic handles
-4 back/pack slots

-Wooden Wheelbarrow Hull (1wheel)
-T: Plane, Saw, Scredriver
-M: 20 screws, 4 medium wood sheets, 2 medium wood handles
-4 back/pack slots

-WeaversHEavyGrassWheelbarrowHull (1wheel)
-T: Weaver, Lasher
-M: 4heavygrassplate 4grasstwine, 2 branches
-4 back/pack slots

-RickshawHulls (Moderate Speed 1 man, 2wheels)
**********I know rickshaws carry people but im not sure what to call something that looks like that, with two handles which you pull behind you.*************

-Metal Rickshaw Hull (2 wheel)
-T: Pliers, Wrench
-M: 40 bolts, 4 large metal Sheets, 2LongMetalHandle
-8 back/pack slots

-PLastic Rickshaw Hull (2wheel)
-T: Craft KNife, Scredriver
-M: 20 screws, 4 large plastic sheets, 2 longPLasticHandle
-8 back/pack slots

-Wooden Rickshaw Hull (2wheel)
-T: Plane, Saw, Scredriver
-M: 40 screws, 4 large wood sheets, 2longwoodhandle
-8 back/pack slots

-WeaversHEavyGrassRickshawHull (2wheel)
-T: Weaver, Lasher
-M: 16heavygrassplate, 8grasstwine, 2branches
-8 back/pack slots

Just these items will yield 42 different carts which we can construct

Additionally I would Like to see watergoing crafts. In order to move your craft you will need to be on it with a paddle equiped in your hands (a paddle would be a two handed item).

-kayaks and Canoes would be 1 and 2 man watergoing vessles respectively, which work like finished carts. rafts would work like floating platforms.

-In order to move a raft, canoe or kayak one will need to equip a paddle.

-As IRL kayak paddles can be used to paddle any canoes kayaks or rafts, these will be the only type of paddle make.

-Canoes and Kayaks will have slots in which filled bins or back-slot-items can be placed.

-Canoes/Kayaks/Rafts will not break down, but paddles will with use.

Paddles
Weavers Grass kayak Paddle
-T: Lasher, Weaver, Craft KNife
-M: 1Heavy grass plate, 1 branch, 4grass twine

Scrappers Metal kayak Paddle
-T: pliers, wrench
-M: small metal sheet, long metal handle, 2bolts

Scavengers Plastic kayak Paddle
-T: craft knife, bevel,
-M: small plastic sheet, long plastic handle, 2 rivets

Pioneers Wooden kayak Paddle
-T: PLane, CraftKNife, hammer
-M: Small Wood Sheet, long wood handle, 2 nails

Trappers Bone kayak Paddle
-T: Hammer, Chisle, Screwdriver
-M: 4 flatbone, 2 roundbones, 4 small bones, 10 screws

Kayaks (1man)
Scavengers plastic kayak (1man,2 slots, 4x swim speed)
-T: screwdriver, craftknife, pliers
-M: 4 large Plastic Sheet, 40 screws,

Scrappers metal kayak (1man,3 slots, 2.5x move speed)
-T: wrench, pliers
-M: 4 large metal sheets, 60 bolts,

Pioneers Wooden kayak (1man,2slots, 4x move speed)
-T: PLane, CraftKNife, screwdriver
-M: 4 Large wood PLate, 40 screws

Canoes (2men paddling, a third can sit in the middle. This will not move with only 1 man paddling. Only the person in the back seat has the ability to steer.)

Scavengers plastic canoe (2man, 8 slots, 4x swim speed)
-T: screwdriver, craftknife, pliers
-M: 8 large Plastic Sheet, 40 screws, 2 medium plastic poles

Scrappers metal canoe (2man, 12 slots, 2.5x move speed)
-T: wrench, pliers
-M: 8 large metal sheets, 60 bolts, 4 medium metal poles

Pioneers Wooden canoe (2man, 8 slots, 4x move speed)
-T: PLane, CraftKNife, screwdriver
-M: 8 Large wood sheets, 40 screws, 2 medium wood poles

Rafts (1 man to paddle)
-Rafts would be like platforms and you would place items on them as you do on the ground now.
-Anyone can stand on it and you can move as much as you can squeeze on
-Rafts would be the same size as floors are now.

-Grass Raft (0.9 swim speed)
-T: LAsher, Weaver,
-M: 16 light grass plate, 20 grasstwine

-Branch raft (0.9 swim speed)
-T: Craft Knife
-M: 10 branches, 10 twigs, 20 cloth or grass twine.


-If you die your cart or boat remains where you were when you died and is fully lootable. Your attacker can pick up your vehicle and continue using it if he/she wishes.
-These are all human powered vehicles.
- The ground based vehicles carry more but do not move faster. they may move slower depending on the cart
-The water based vehicles carry more and move faster

MrDDT
07-12-2011, 11:35 AM
These are good ones Roth.
But as I said before many issues.
Like foragers dont use things like woodenhandles. They use rock, grass, twigs etc

Also the types of tools used.
Things like cloth sheets, but no scissors or needle used.

Also balancing issues. 4x the speed of swimming? WOW that is really fast.

Anyways, I would like to see these ideas in game, balanced and put in. But first I think we should stick with slow carts rather than mounts and boats for fast travel. Then as things get put into place come back and look at fast mounts and faster travel.

b_ulam
07-12-2011, 01:38 PM
These are good ones Roth.
Also balancing issues. 4x the speed of swimming? WOW that is really fast.


If youve ever used a kayak youd probably say 4x is reasonable. Im not michael phelps, but i sure can kayak fast with my scronny arms. These boats will never take you exactly where you want to go so youll need to unload once you reach shore and continue on foot. Boats are secondary. Not nearly as important as carts, but imo boats would be essential for trading with ppl across the lake.

MrDDT
07-12-2011, 01:45 PM
I agree, love the boats idea.

If its about a matter of time, and choosing which to put in first.

Carts (slow for carrying heavy stuff)
Wagons (semi slow to carry people and stuff with animals)
Boats (barge types, slow carries a lot)
Mounts (fast, or pack mules)
Fast small boats.

In that order of need. I would also like to see ranged weapons working in game before we see fast mounts and fast boats.

b_ulam
07-12-2011, 02:31 PM
IMO
1. Carts (slow for carrying heavy stuff)
2. Rafts (slow, carry relatively large amount, behaves like a platform on which items/bins may be placed)
<insert ranged weapons>
3. Fast small boats.
4. Mounts (fast, or pack mules) <<<requires animal taming
5. Wagons (semi slow to carry people and stuff with animals) <<<requires animal taming
6. Large Boats (barge types, slow carries a lot)

Larsa
07-12-2011, 05:27 PM
I want a zeppelin.

Okay, okay, couldn't resist. :)

b_ulam
07-12-2011, 05:29 PM
I want a zeppelin.

Okay, okay, couldn't resist. :)

and hot air balloons and a hang glider? maybe after the world gets converted to 3D, after we can swim underwater and tunnel.

Book
07-12-2011, 06:32 PM
Lots of waterfalls out there for boats.

I can see the idea having to travel across the lake, but would still rather see mounts and pack mules come in first.

Prefer those modes of travel from a playing perspective (rather than purely utilitarian) and also think they really will one day open up some expansion zones at which point lake becomes closer to moot.

I know, I know, you disagree... don't mean I ain't gonna say it so it's at least been said :).

Ixnay on the boats, yay for horses.

When they eventually do have canoes though, would be cool to paddle with each mouse button. Same mechanic could be implemented with horses and pulling reins (doesn't have to mean split rein though, could apply to western style as well).

VeryWiiTee
07-13-2011, 07:47 AM
uh have you seen a mule deer?
a large muley is 250 pounds. you're not going to ride it...unless you're like 50 pounds.

now you could ride an elk or a moose...

you're not going to ride a bear...their body just isn't shaped right. You might use one as a pack animal (just like you might a deer...as llamas are used in that manner as well) but riding one? not gonna happen.
and black bears are fairly docile...grizzlies and the like...completely different story there.

Nope, never seen a mule deer in the real world as I've never been in that part of America.. yet.
Yeah the Mule Deer might be a bit far stretched, but given that this is RPG I think we can bend the rules.. Just a bit (We can always say that Mule Deers have grown in size :D!). Other wise no, in the real world a Mule Deer would prolly succumb to the weight of an adult person just as an icelandic pony would (those are the miniature horse, right or is it just the one that runs funneh?).
We could ride a trophy-sized Mule Deer Buck (they weight around 500 pounds, equal to a horse bred for riding.)

If I can sit on an elephant with left leg down its left side and my right leg down its right side I can sure as hell sit on a bear too - no offense meant. (It hurts like crap and you have no feeling left in your legs, but trust me it is possible to ride an elephant without a saddle, I did it in San Diego Zoo as my little sister really... REALLY wanted to try it, they have some cool elephants there :).)

What happens next is just a matter of domesticating the animal. If bears had provided other things than just meat (and people hadn't been afraid of the poor thingies) they would have been domisticated too. I'm sure of it.
We like to domisticate animals that can provide us several things at once. (Common ones) Horses - Work animal and meat, Ox - Work animal and meat, Chicken - Eggs + meat, Cows - Milk + Meat + Leather, Pigs (as one of the few) - just meat but they'll eat almost anything so, so to speak, your cleaning lady/guy, dogs - pets, hunting animals and somewhat protection/alert system. Cats just found it +1 to hang around xD I'm joking with the cat and I'm sure they all have more benefits than what I can remember without looking up in wiki.

Technically a bear in-game would provide us with, 'horse power/BEAR power' making it possible to move greater loads. It would be able to provide us with meat, be a nice pet against intruders and we could in theory ride it (Hell if I can stretch my legs across the back of an elephant which is wider than a bear, I sure as hell can stretch my legs across the back of a bear. I even think it would be more comfortable sitting on a bear. If you catch my drift).

I'd still prefer to see:
Mounts
Carts
Wagons

I'm not into what would ruin PvP. I'm into what they need to code less of and therefore make less new problems and that is mounts (I think, I'm not entirely sure, but they win 'cos I like mounts). Either way, introducing completely new coding only brings along more problems than before it was introduced.

Nay on boats for my part. They are only beneficial to certain people and wouldn't benefit the entire population. Once they actually have a good way or multiple ways on how to transport goods on land, can we begin with the more specific stuff.

Xx1327
07-13-2011, 09:22 PM
I'm a bit late but in response to below


Hello Xsyonians!

I would like some feedback on this subject "carts/mounts transport" give as much details as you can.

Carts what should they do?
How should they do it?
Do you ride in it?
Is it faster or slower?
Do they carry more items?
Do they carry more items and move faster?
Is it a wheel barrow (people powered) or horse (animal powered)?
Should it be faster or slower thank running or walking?
What happens when you die does it stay behind or or do you lose it?
And what type of transport would you expect to see?
So basically what you think carts/mounts transport should be.

Please be as detailed as possible.

Thanks.


Carts Should be something, of various sizes, that carries a lot of objects at the same speed a person moves, Unless it is being pulled by an animal. It carries more than what a person could carry, can still become encumbered though depending on cart size. Different cart sizes should require a minimum level for strength, add a fun level of realism to it. Different carts(which wouldn't be carts then) consist of: wheel barrows, wagons, shopping carts, push carts, animal-drawn wagons and carts; all of which consist of different versions.

Animal drawn carts should of course be faster than walking and hold twice as much, Its the advantage of using animals as opposed to pulling your own cart. carts should be able to be stolen, along with their animals if attached to one, if the owner leaves them unattended or if they are killed.

It would be pretty fun and useful if people could be carried in any of the carts. imagine having jousting tournaments in shopping carts.

Another Very interesting concept would be to allow the carts to be customized/improved, both aesthetically and in usefulness. An example would be putting better wheels on a shopping cart or adding armor to the sides of it to protect people and goods in it.

Deacon
08-03-2011, 10:41 PM
I'd like to see horses first thing AFTER ballistics too. At first, just one type, but later different types...draft horses for heavier pulling, arabian types for less pulling but swifter, more agile. Leathercrafters could make harnesses and saddles of varying types, which would require metal parts and leather of course :)

.Minimum requirement would be bridal..and can ride bareback....less comfort for rider though.
.Adding a saddle would be better for rider...more comfort...
.Adding saddlebags can give more carry capacity, would be like adding a pair of the smaller baskets.
.Would be good for using sabers/swords/long bladed weapons while attacking. (loved how darkfall did it)

later harnesses can be made to hook up horses to large trailers... for carrying logs and other resources...or just carry people, like a buckboard with many seats. Other types of wagons can be added later as well....chariots.....surreys....


just my 2 cents

aliksteel
08-06-2011, 06:10 AM
1) Why do you want carts/mounts?
I'm lost here to be honest with you, Carts/Mounts? Really, We don't have taming ingame nor has anyone found a wheel, Much less learned to make one.
I think unless we are going to throw all Jookys plans out the window and add what ever we wish. At best we can only have sled's for now. One man powered old timey wooden hauling sleds.


2) What purpose do you need them for?
Double or quadruple the amount of items and/or weight you can carry


3) For hauling large loads or faster travel or both
For hauling large loads, If anything it should slow you down some for now


4) Be realistic about what you request i.e something that can be done in 1-2 weeks.
One item, One recipe, Three actions for sled, open, use, drop[allowing items like long logs, grass, and other's to be added on/in sled])


5) If you had to choose from both carts and mounts what would you choose? hauling carts or fast mounts (note mounts would hold little in the way of resources)
NA

tomduril
11-11-2011, 08:57 AM
Feedback:

I like the carts on the test server.

Comment: Move the rotation point between the 2 wheels, and during rotation playback the sidemove animation on the char. if you adjust the rotation speed it should look nicely.