PDA

View Full Version : Will the carebears ruin xsyon...



Palo god
04-09-2010, 07:25 PM
...with their carebear stare?


I’ve recently noticed a huge influx of carebears coming into the forum community. If a large chunk of the player base gradually and eventually just becomes crafters that want to be completely safe at all times, crafters that just grind crafting items they’re never going to use 24/7, will the xsyon team change the core game mechanics and the original image of the game to cater to these people? Or will they continue with their original game ideas regardless of what the carebears say?

Wrekkoning
04-09-2010, 07:31 PM
I'm pretty sure, all the crafters watched in horror as the Darkfallers came over as well.

Diocletian
04-09-2010, 07:32 PM
Well the game is not going to be a gank fest.
I surmise the crafters therefore will still be safe most of the time.
That is, a gank fest is when your safe none of the time.

Kitsume
04-09-2010, 07:35 PM
Same argument goes the other way.

But since we don't know yet how the killing penalties will work, it is hard to say which group will feel at home in Xsyon.

CoolStoryBro
04-09-2010, 07:39 PM
What you dont realize is that carebears are what make the world go round, without them you wouldnt get that nice shiny new helmet, or timber stack.

that was part of the reason df economy failed so much, to much gank fest, so all the squishy lil crafters left.

tis better to gank less and get more gears then to gank more and only find nakeds

Ikisis
04-09-2010, 07:41 PM
CoolStoryBro wrote:

What you dont realize is that carebears are what make the world go round, without them you wouldnt get that nice shiny new helmet, or timber stack.

that was part of the reason df economy failed so much, to much gank fest, so all the squishy lil crafters left.

tis better to gank less and get more gears then to gank more and only find nakeds

I agree, The more they craft the more they sell the more people that have good gear so the more likely us Red's will be well geared from everyone buying from them.

Crafting is important and even more important is killing crafter's when they are traveling to sell or are just merchants.

Cochran1
04-09-2010, 07:57 PM
I think the more important question is why play a sandbox if you only want to experience a very small portion of it? I for one plan to partake in some of everything.

Moderation: somewhere between too little and too much.

Palo god
04-09-2010, 08:08 PM
CoolStoryBro wrote:

What you dont realize is that carebears are what make the world go round, without them you wouldnt get that nice shiny new helmet, or timber stack.

that was part of the reason df economy failed so much, to much gank fest, so all the squishy lil crafters left.

tis better to gank less and get more gears then to gank more and only find nakeds

I don't equate all or even most crafters to carebears as I’m also going to craft in this game from time to time. I'm talking about the people that are going to want pvp nerfed, safe zones expanded, and their items made safer by whining to the devs that they just lost all their stuff transferring it to another tribe city via wagon and then getting pked.

MeritAmun
04-09-2010, 08:13 PM
I love crafting and I love pvp... I will have to find a balance however my focus will be in crafting however I generally do not shy away from a good fight either. I do not understand why people think crafters have to be care bears... just because I maxed crafting in every game with a worthwhile crafting system that I have played doesn't mean I have not spent at least as much or even more time in battlegrounds, in open pvp or whatever else the combat system had for pvp.
Yeah I must be a carebear... (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4014/4494273983_ae63968886_o.jpg)
If you clicked the link.. I am Naavari and my partner in crime depicted on that screen will be playing with me and we make a nice tag team with me as support.

So yeah I love pvp as much as I enjoy every other aspect of the game.

Palo god
04-09-2010, 08:15 PM
MeritAmun wrote:

I love crafting and I love pvp... I will have to find a balance however my focus will be in crafting however I generally do not shy away from a good fight either. I do not understand why people think crafters have to be care bears... just because I maxed crafting in every game with a worthwhile crafting system that I have played doesn't mean I have not spent at least as much or even more time in battlegrounds, in open pvp or whatever else the combat system had for pvp.
Yeah I must be a carebear... (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4014/4494273983_ae63968886_o.jpg)
If you clicked the link.. I am Naavari and my partner in crime depicted on that screen will be playing with me and we make a nice tag team with me as support.

So yeah I love pvp as much as I enjoy every other aspect of the game.

Read my last post. I think you and the vast majority of the people that posted missed the entire point of the thread and interpreted it as something else.

Cochran1
04-09-2010, 08:19 PM
Palo god wrote:

CoolStoryBro wrote:

What you dont realize is that carebears are what make the world go round, without them you wouldnt get that nice shiny new helmet, or timber stack.

that was part of the reason df economy failed so much, to much gank fest, so all the squishy lil crafters left.

tis better to gank less and get more gears then to gank more and only find nakeds

I don't equate all or even most crafters to carebears as I’m also going to craft in this game from time to time. I'm talking about the people that are going to want pvp nerfed, safe zones expanded, and their items made safer by whining to the devs that they just lost all their stuff transferring it to another tribe city via wagon and then getting pked.

So far we've had a chance to see Jooky's resolve. There were people posting left and right wanting vids and SC's, instead of caving he stuck to his guns. If that's any indication about how future decisions will be made I don't think you'll have anything to worry about.

r0ss0
04-09-2010, 08:21 PM
Palo god wrote:

MeritAmun wrote:

I love crafting and I love pvp... I will have to find a balance however my focus will be in crafting however I generally do not shy away from a good fight either. I do not understand why people think crafters have to be care bears... just because I maxed crafting in every game with a worthwhile crafting system that I have played doesn't mean I have not spent at least as much or even more time in battlegrounds, in open pvp or whatever else the combat system had for pvp.
Yeah I must be a carebear... (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4014/4494273983_ae63968886_o.jpg)
If you clicked the link.. I am Naavari and my partner in crime depicted on that screen will be playing with me and we make a nice tag team with me as support.

So yeah I love pvp as much as I enjoy every other aspect of the game.

Read my last post. I think you and the vast majority of the people that posted missed the entire point of the thread and interpreted it as something else.

Or perhaps you misinterpreted this game into something else?

Its all about balance , You get carebears. You get gankers.

deal with it

MeritAmun
04-09-2010, 08:22 PM
Naw i understand what you mean and I do not personally see it as a big or valid concern, I am pretty sure with a growing community the influx of pvp enthusiasts and those that would rather be safe will be kept in balance. And I think that is where the tribe will be very important. There will likely be those that love to pvp that can go out and protect their crafters. Or at least they should. I think most everyone would agree that a game that concentrates too heavy on any given side would get very boring very quickly. But I would also not call those that enjoy the less combative aspects of the game carebears just because their focus may be somewhere else and I am so tired of that stupid term.

Palo god
04-09-2010, 08:27 PM
r0ss0 wrote:

Palo god wrote:

MeritAmun wrote:

I love crafting and I love pvp... I will have to find a balance however my focus will be in crafting however I generally do not shy away from a good fight either. I do not understand why people think crafters have to be care bears... just because I maxed crafting in every game with a worthwhile crafting system that I have played doesn't mean I have not spent at least as much or even more time in battlegrounds, in open pvp or whatever else the combat system had for pvp.
Yeah I must be a carebear... (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4014/4494273983_ae63968886_o.jpg)
If you clicked the link.. I am Naavari and my partner in crime depicted on that screen will be playing with me and we make a nice tag team with me as support.

So yeah I love pvp as much as I enjoy every other aspect of the game.

Read my last post. I think you and the vast majority of the people that posted missed the entire point of the thread and interpreted it as something else.

Or perhaps you misinterpreted this game into something else?

Its all about balance , You get carebears. You get gankers.

deal with it

Not at all. I know what kind of game I want and what kind of game xsyon promises to be. The point of this thread was to see if the devs would change their core game mechanics to cater to certain players if those players with their play style become a large chunk of the game's player base.

In short I don't want to see promises cut short because a big chunk of the player base doesn't want something to be added/removed like promised(like the removal of safe zones in good and neutral tribe cities after prelude or the removal of a soft cap and skill decay so no life grinders can become the super powers of the game).

r0ss0
04-09-2010, 08:34 PM
What you say is spot on, People that whine about small things need to actually realise the big impact they could cause , Lets say a bunch of people complain that pvp is to overpowered some how , Then the Devs decide to put some kind of immunity in place.
that alone can destroy the games well being.

I want it to be dangerous out in the wild , I want it to be tough. Whats the point in building villages if they cant be attacked or you cant be killed due to something that gets put in place.

But its the ones who cause the grief also, I dont mind a fight , But those that wish to camp over and over will cause a bigger impact than those complaining.

so like i said there needs to be a balance between the two , And people should really think about what they say before complaining , This is community game not a singleplayer game , What you whine about could ruin the game for many others.

but im sure the Devs know what they are doing , Yes there will be teething bugs , And i can see pvp being way overpowered , But give them time to find the right balance and all is golden.

CoolStoryBro
04-09-2010, 08:53 PM
They could create safe zones for lesser materials and the rarer materials would not have a safe zone.
Or
They could introduce guards of some type too.

By the way, I didn't mean all crafters are carebears, I meant the crafters and resource gatherers that are carebear like in expression. IE QQers

If I kill someone and take their stuff I dont want them QQing me cause the smart crafter/gatherer would have a couple friends come out of hiding, kill me, take all my gear while laughing at me. :laugh:

Reynolds
04-09-2010, 09:34 PM
Ultimately "carebears" aren't looking to ruin the game experience for anyone.

Conversely, the hardcore griefers do want to ruin the game experience for as many people as possible.

I'm more worried by a huge influx of griefers than of "carebears".

Hopefully the game will be balanced for neither. Yes the game should have pvp. No it shouldn't be a case of as soon as anyone leaves town a horde of reds descends of them to grief them repeatedly. Getting the balance right to ensure it suits as many parts of the community as possible is not a bad thing. Alienating people

Having game mechanics to ensure a large section of the population continue to enjoy the game without being driven from the game will have far less of an impact than creating a game where griefing is encouraged.

So ultimately, will the care bears ruin Xsyon? Obviously not. Will griefers ruin Xsyon? Remains to be seen but ultimately I hope not else sandbox game will become synonymous with "gankfest"

Ciik
04-09-2010, 10:19 PM
Reynolds wrote:

Ultimately "carebears" aren't looking to ruin the game experience for anyone.

Conversely, the hardcore griefers do want to ruin the game experience for as many people as possible.

I remember reading that article in O Magazine too. I propose that weapons can only be used on npc's and creatures, and if a player makes an aggressive move toward another player, their weapon turns into a feather, and a big tickle-fight ensues.

jessebfox
04-09-2010, 10:35 PM
Palo god wrote:

r0ss0 wrote:

Palo god wrote:

MeritAmun wrote:

I love crafting and I love pvp... I will have to find a balance however my focus will be in crafting however I generally do not shy away from a good fight either. I do not understand why people think crafters have to be care bears... just because I maxed crafting in every game with a worthwhile crafting system that I have played doesn't mean I have not spent at least as much or even more time in battlegrounds, in open pvp or whatever else the combat system had for pvp.
Yeah I must be a carebear... (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4014/4494273983_ae63968886_o.jpg)
If you clicked the link.. I am Naavari and my partner in crime depicted on that screen will be playing with me and we make a nice tag team with me as support.

So yeah I love pvp as much as I enjoy every other aspect of the game.

Read my last post. I think you and the vast majority of the people that posted missed the entire point of the thread and interpreted it as something else.

Or perhaps you misinterpreted this game into something else?

Its all about balance , You get carebears. You get gankers.

deal with it

Not at all. I know what kind of game I want and what kind of game xsyon promises to be. The point of this thread was to see if the devs would change their core game mechanics to cater to certain players if those players with their play style become a large chunk of the game's player base.

In short I don't want to see promises cut short because a big chunk of the player base doesn't want something to be added/removed like promised(like the removal of safe zones in good and neutral tribe cities after prelude or the removal of a soft cap and skill decay so no life grinders can become the super powers of the game).

See, I had a hard time getting a feel for what kind of game Xsyon was going to be. That is why I made the thread here (http://www.xsyon.com/forums/7-public-support/16083-very-long-4-questions-for-jooky) to try to get a feel on what the devs were aiming for. I have to say I had no dog in the fight, although I generally only stick with games that have pvp in them (in fact I can't remember the last game I played that had no pvp. Passed on Lotro entirely due to no pvp). But this looks like the devs intend it to be a fairly carebearish game. I kinda suspected this which is why I made that thread to get their input. Take their response as you will, but I have stopped gearing for Xsyon as a serious hardcore pvp game. In fact I think warhammer will end up being a more serious pvp game than Xsyon from those results.

Take that as you will, but it looks like what kind of game you want is not what the devs want, and you may want to brace yourself for disappointment. But don't blame the carebears if it turns out just like they said in that thread, it's the devs design. Blame either them for not making the game you want or blame yourself for expecting something other than what they said.

Reynolds
04-09-2010, 10:52 PM
Ciik wrote:

Reynolds wrote:

Ultimately "carebears" aren't looking to ruin the game experience for anyone.

Conversely, the hardcore griefers do want to ruin the game experience for as many people as possible.

I remember reading that article in O Magazine too. I propose that weapons can only be used on npc's and creatures, and if a player makes an aggressive move toward another player, their weapon turns into a feather, and a big tickle-fight ensues.

Er, what article, what magazine?

There is a big difference between applying consequences so those who want to grief have consequences for doing so to create a balance for all players and removing pvp entirely from the game.

It seems that most people intent on griefing (A vocal, but still significant minority from my perception) here want to have no/trivial consequences for their actions. They claim any penalty for going evil would be a restriction on them. You can still choose to go evil and take consequences or not to go evil, there will still be pvp both ways.

Going evil you gain the advantage that you can attack anyone, anytime, anywhere. In the interest of balance there should be consequences for such actions, nothing severely punitive, but enough so that evil tribes remain rare, yet still are a threat.

Overall I have decided it's fairly pointless getting into debates over this issue as the two sides are so entrenched that no resolution between the Asshole and the Carebear will ever be possible. Most gamers (myself included) lie well in the middle of the two sides and are a lot less vocal about the issues.

Although tickle fights do sound pretty awesome, I must agree with you there.

/me tickles you with a feather for 0 points of damage.

CoolStoryBro
04-09-2010, 11:15 PM
Hopefully it will be harder to run from ambushes by the time the games fully started jesse.

Also I'm completely fine with penalties for pking however is should definitely be equal. If I try and kill someone they shouldn't be able to run way faster then me, maybe moderately. And if they pull out their weapon then they lose said bonus for say 30 seconds (to avoid people doing hit and runs).

kiwibird
04-09-2010, 11:41 PM
A game can run without any PvP to support it, so if it ruins it for anyone, it will simply be the PvP come PKers that will be sad and out. So when you cry "Carebears ruined the game" there are more carebears that could very easily support the game than PvP come PKers realise.

So for once a carebear can laugh in your face while you wiggle on the ground talking to your friends.

I have one simple statement for you PvP come PKers. Control your lusts, you want a balanced game then control yourself, just like you control yourself (hopefully) in real life. No control or responsibility will see a outrage forming, likewise will there be outrage on the other sides if it swings to far in that direction.

Is 10% of players enough to change the game? How much revenue is lost if that amount of people leave? If it is 13usd a month to play, that's 650usd a month in lost revenue and that's just the cap on Prelude.

7800usd a year lost if they don't return.

We don't even know anything about the games PvP and PKing repercussions. This is a world building game! Can PvP and PKing support a building game?

Veldern
04-09-2010, 11:47 PM
From what I've read/seen (devs saying they're going to work with the best of the best crafters to introduce new items into the game) they will be focusing more with crafting and rebuilding the world then with killing and destroying it. You'll have to be a VERY dedicated crafter to ever become one of the specialized people, which means less pvp for those working with the devs.

CoolStoryBro
04-10-2010, 12:27 AM
there will probably be a large number of pvpers/pks in this though...
Also where are you getting these numbers?
The prelude caps 5000 and the subscription is 15usd a month

so 10% of the player base would be 7500usd a Month. honestly there's gonna be a higher pvp/pk player base for this game then crafter base in the beginning because that what sandlots do. whether it becomes a mainly crafting based game is of course totally up to the developer. however why should a pker live up to the standards of real world morals and law-system? This is a game man, the point of a game is the ability to do what you cant in a real world situation. Otherwise I would just walk around in tinfoil armor suit in pursuit of more resources at a Walmart a couple hours a day.

The game should be balanced not in favor of one way or another.

kiwibird
04-10-2010, 12:36 AM
...I thought it was 500. My bad.


This is a game man, the point of a game is the ability to do what you cant in a real world situation.For you perhaps, for me its to escape from Real World pressure, de-stress, to have an escape.

History seems to support that as well. It's only recently that the concept of "What I can't do in real life" became a reality, good ol' America... :angry:

CoolStoryBro
04-10-2010, 12:40 AM
Wasn't trying to ad hominem, just wondering if you misread.

kiwibird
04-10-2010, 01:59 AM
Oh please, I know how to cause grief and have been grieved without the requirements of PvP, I'm not noob when it comes to building sims.

Stncold
04-10-2010, 04:03 AM
Reynolds wrote:

Ultimately "carebears" aren't looking to ruin the game experience for anyone.
Conversely, the hardcore griefers do want to ruin the game experience for as many people as possible.


Carebears ruin the experience when they begin to whine en masse on the forums after being killed like twice and try to get the system changed so that they can do whatever in peace, often enough they succeed because very few dev teams have a pair these days.

Conversely, the "hardcore"(more like scrub) griefers that seek to ruin the experience for others rarely last very long, because they themselves get griefed off by a combination of APK's and the real PK's that get pissed off they're scaring off all the targets/competition.

Funnily enough, the "griefers" will often provide you with much more delicious butthurt and tears than the carebears do.

Reynolds
04-10-2010, 04:56 AM
Stncold wrote:

Reynolds wrote:

Ultimately "carebears" aren't looking to ruin the game experience for anyone.
Conversely, the hardcore griefers do want to ruin the game experience for as many people as possible.


Carebears ruin the experience when they begin to whine en masse on the forums after being killed like twice and try to get the system changed so that they can do whatever in peace, often enough they succeed because very few dev teams have a pair these days.


I'd say the "carebears" were probably less vocal than the average "asshole" and probably have little influence, if the devs want to make the game a griefers paradise, they will and any "carebear" won't even consider the game (along with a large proportion from the gamers in between). If "carebears" are 10% of the market, and "assholes" are another 10% with everyone else in the spectrum between, aiming the game toward the 80% rather than either extreme makes sense?

I don't think anyone expects to go weeks without having to fight/flee from combat.

Equally I don't think many want to play in a game where "Assholes" will harrass you every 10 minutes from the second you log in.

Ultimately balancing and monitoring the playerbase is in the hands of the devs. If it's too carebear friendly toughen up the ruleset. If griefers are ruining the game for the bulk of the population, increase the consequences for going evil and make evading combat slightly easier.

I'm sure there will be enough tears from carebears and assholes alike that the game doesn't perfectly suit them, as long as it suits the people in the middle and the mechanic provide a good balance, the devs will have done their job well.

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 05:17 AM
Palo god wrote:

...with their carebear stare?


I’ve recently noticed a huge influx of carebears coming into the forum community. If a large chunk of the player base gradually and eventually just becomes crafters that want to be completely safe at all times, crafters that just grind crafting items they’re never going to use 24/7, will the xsyon team change the core game mechanics and the original image of the game to cater to these people? Or will they continue with their original game ideas regardless of what the carebears say?

I'm sure the developer will stick to his original idea and core mechanics of the game. The problem is that it is not what you thought it would be.

I don't know who advertised this game on Darkfall forums as a hardcore Pker paradise, but that person fooled a lot of people.

The developers of Xsyon stated clearly from the very beginning that this game isn't a PvP focused one, and ganking-griefing will never be tolerated. Its not their fault if you misread that.

Still, I wouldn't be worried if I were you. There will be a lot of PvP in the game, you will always be able to find likeminded people who are happy to take part in challenging fights. What would you loose with the so-called carebear features ? Only the easy preys, but what is fun about killing an unprepared person with 3 hits who carries 10 logs ? If they can flee from you, let it be...you won't loose anything, nor fun neither real loot.

And I understand why are you worried, in most of the games only combat which can keep players entertained...crafting is added only as a timesink feature, usually meaningless and boring. But this game has the focus on building-crafting-exploring...hopefully you (and all of us) will find it a lot of fun.

Here you will be able to see your tribe's village to grow into a town, to see it grow and prosper...isn't it more satisfying and fun than to be able to destroy it (or other tribe's one) in half an hour ?

Don't think of 'carebears' like your enemies...they never want to ruin your fun, they only want to keep theirs.

jessebfox
04-10-2010, 06:12 AM
CoolStoryBro wrote:

Hopefully it will be harder to run from ambushes by the time the games fully started jesse.

Also I'm completely fine with penalties for pking however is should definitely be equal. If I try and kill someone they shouldn't be able to run way faster then me, maybe moderately. And if they pull out their weapon then they lose said bonus for say 30 seconds (to avoid people doing hit and runs).

I don't think you get my point. Those numbers are the long term goal, the vision of the devs for Xsyon. In other words, the carebears can't get them to change TO that, because that is what they WANT. They being the devs. If you are hoping the devs change the game to not be a carebear game then it is you ruining it for them. Carebears can't ruin the game because it is slated to be a carebear game.

They don't want the game balanced between hard core pvp players/open pvp players and carebears (pvp avoiding crafters), read that thread. They want to make the rules favor the carebears so much that only 20% of the population is evil once everything settles down.

I believe off the bat the % will be much higher evil, because the hard core pvp players have no real home/game right now. That means the "consequences" for out of warfare pvp will stiffen and stiffen until the number is right around 20% red.

When this happens don't blame the carebears. From the sounds of it, blame your self for not realizing this is what the devs wanted in the first place. It was stated clear enough now. If that's not the kind of game you want, find another. Whining here about it is as bad as carebears whining in the DF forums.

Cradlejoe
04-10-2010, 06:21 AM
I couldn't be bothered to read anyones posts or even the OP, I'm justing writing from reading the title.
I think that carebears make these sorts of games, as if everyone was a combat char then it would be constant war and more like an ongoing deathmatch rather than an MMO. We need the carebears to be our crafters and gatherers. But then again if the carebears start to whine and ask for a seperate server then that would kill it :)

Ciik
04-10-2010, 06:31 AM
jessebfox wrote:

CoolStoryBro wrote:

Hopefully it will be harder to run from ambushes by the time the games fully started jesse.

Also I'm completely fine with penalties for pking however is should definitely be equal. If I try and kill someone they shouldn't be able to run way faster then me, maybe moderately. And if they pull out their weapon then they lose said bonus for say 30 seconds (to avoid people doing hit and runs).

I don't think you get my point. Those numbers are the long term goal, the vision of the devs for Xsyon. In other words, the carebears can't get them to change TO that, because that is what they WANT. They being the devs. If you are hoping the devs change the game to not be a carebear game then it is you ruining it for them. Carebears can't ruin the game because it is slated to be a carebear game.

They don't want the game balanced between hard core pvp players/open pvp players and carebears (pvp avoiding crafters), read that thread. They want to make the rules favor the carebears so much that only 20% of the population is evil once everything settles down.

I believe off the bat the % will be much higher evil, because the hard core pvp players have no real home/game right now. That means the "consequences" for out of warfare pvp will stiffen and stiffen until the number is right around 20% red.

When this happens don't blame the carebears. From the sounds of it, blame your self for not realizing this is what the devs wanted in the first place. It was stated clear enough now. If that's not the kind of game you want, find another. Whining here about it is as bad as carebears whining in the DF forums.

Thats interesting. I missed the the thread or faq where Xsyon said they want 80% of the population non-evil, non-combative in a sense of not consenting to solo pvp.

Sincerely, please provide the link. Because last I read was Xsyon posting that they do not want the game to be out of balance in favor of ganking all the time, rather than un-balanced in favor of pve and crafting all the time. I understand the communicated purpose of prelude and progression of game-stages from more safe in prelude to more open as the game progresses, so again, this is just an interest to see the information by Xsyon about reported 80% you referred to.

jessebfox
04-10-2010, 07:10 AM
I linked it in my first post, but I will link it again here. I made the thread because I got the distinct impression from their posts they were aiming for a game that was light on the pvp. So I asked for answers. The original question is very long but the answers are concise.

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/7-public-support/16083-very-long-4-questions-for-jooky

Ciik
04-10-2010, 07:42 AM
I saw that. I hadn't played Virtus in the dev department so maybe I mistakenly didnt take his answer as Xsyon. But if he's confident in that answer, I'd like to see the FAQ updated. We dont need players with a "misconception" of what Xsyon isn't.

kiwibird
04-10-2010, 07:48 AM
Virtus as a Admin for the forums must have some nice information, after all this is the forum on Xsyon, not Xsyon unofficial forum.

Stingraey
04-10-2010, 07:57 AM
Nothing stops you from declaring war on the carebear tribe and stabbing em in their happy rainbow spot.

Ciik
04-10-2010, 07:57 AM
Yea, so lets get the faq updated with the fact that the game-play will be governed so that no more than 20% of open game-play will be influenced by combative player vs player. It'll help keep out those that the game isn't for.

killswitch
04-10-2010, 08:44 AM
i have no problem with people living out of a safe NPC city....if the noobs want to pay $15 a month just to craft then by all means go ahead....i only play these games for the group PvP dynamic so thats where you are going to find me

jessebfox
04-10-2010, 08:57 AM
Ciik wrote:

Yea, so lets get the faq updated with the fact that the game-play will be governed so that no more than 20% of open game-play will be influenced by combative player vs player. It'll help keep out those that the game isn't for.

I agree something should be put in the faq. 20% is their goal, I don't take it so that it will be governed so that 'no more' than 20%. Semantics I know, but still.

The features list nothing (that I can recall) about pvp being a feature of the game so that doesn't need to be changed, but maybe a new question added to faq something like "how common will evil players be?" or "how common is pvp going to be outside of tribal warfare?"

Because I think you are 1000% right, we don't need more players with a misconception of what the game is. Especially if it is a critical aspect of the game for them, and for many this is.

Jhael
04-10-2010, 09:09 AM
Sorry to burst your little bubble here, but...

...if the "regulation" is strong enough to make PKing not viable will kill all of it
...if the "regulation" is weak enough people who want to be evil will be evil

There is no third option.

By the way, have to note that regulating a population in a sandbox, well, sounds like a sandbox only by name to me.

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 09:47 AM
Jhael wrote:


By the way, have to note that regulating a population in a sandbox, well, sounds like a sandbox only by name to me.
Sandbox game doesn't mean there are no rules. Sandbox means a non-linear gameplay, a player-driven economy, an ability to terraform and build, and a lot of activities apart of combat. Its not the same as anarchy.

Jhael
04-10-2010, 09:52 AM
Jadzia wrote:

Jhael wrote:


By the way, have to note that regulating a population in a sandbox, well, sounds like a sandbox only by name to me.
Sandbox game doesn't mean there are no rules. Sandbox means a non-linear gameplay, a player-driven economy, an ability to terraform and build, and a lot of activities apart of combat. Its not the same as anarchy.I suggested anarchy? Well if I didn't (I didn't) before I would now. :silly:

Palo god
04-10-2010, 10:18 AM
Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

...with their carebear stare?


I’ve recently noticed a huge influx of carebears coming into the forum community. If a large chunk of the player base gradually and eventually just becomes crafters that want to be completely safe at all times, crafters that just grind crafting items they’re never going to use 24/7, will the xsyon team change the core game mechanics and the original image of the game to cater to these people? Or will they continue with their original game ideas regardless of what the carebears say?

I'm sure the developer will stick to his original idea and core mechanics of the game. The problem is that it is not what you thought it would be.

I don't know who advertised this game on Darkfall forums as a hardcore Pker paradise, but that person fooled a lot of people.

The developers of Xsyon stated clearly from the very beginning that this game isn't a PvP focused one, and ganking-griefing will never be tolerated. Its not their fault if you misread that.

Still, I wouldn't be worried if I were you. There will be a lot of PvP in the game, you will always be able to find likeminded people who are happy to take part in challenging fights. What would you loose with the so-called carebear features ? Only the easy preys, but what is fun about killing an unprepared person with 3 hits who carries 10 logs ? If they can flee from you, let it be...you won't loose anything, nor fun neither real loot.

And I understand why are you worried, in most of the games only combat which can keep players entertained...crafting is added only as a timesink feature, usually meaningless and boring. But this game has the focus on building-crafting-exploring...hopefully you (and all of us) will find it a lot of fun.

Here you will be able to see your tribe's village to grow into a town, to see it grow and prosper...isn't it more satisfying and fun than to be able to destroy it (or other tribe's one) in half an hour ?

Don't think of 'carebears' like your enemies...they never want to ruin your fun, they only want to keep theirs.

A lot of developers come off strong on their core values when they just start their mmos. The problem is a lot of the devs for successful mmos get bored with their game eventually and later just see the game as a way to make money, and nothing else. At that point they just cater to casual players that want to be completely safe 100% of the time that just grind all day and then the game slowly dies as the game turns into a shell of it‘s former self.

I know exactly what this game is aiming to be because I’ve been on these forums longer then most people and actually read what the devs post. My goal in this game isn’t to watch copious amounts of villages grow into industrialized cities. If this game is good my goal will be to destroy entire villages(if they have worthwhile tech and resources) with a like minded tribe and take them for all their worth. The only crafting I’m planning to specialize in is metal work and herblore if they add illicit irl drugs, but I’m mostly going to be a pker if I actually decide to play this game.

No, carebears do want to ruin my fun. “Carebears” are the people that whine to the devs to get everything involving pvp nerfed or extremely restricted after they lose their items as a result of their stupid decisions.

r0ss0
04-10-2010, 11:00 AM
The carebears QQ
You the PK QQ

So what is the diffrence? :)

Palo god
04-10-2010, 11:04 AM
r0ss0 wrote:

The carebears QQ
You the PK QQ

So what is the diffrence? :)

The ones that get game mechanics nerfed.

Wingnut
04-10-2010, 11:38 AM
Hope the pvpers don't ruin the game either. Player should have to keep a look out around them for danger. Creature and player. Player should not be able to turn invisible to gank at will. Dumbest mechanic ever. Sneak up using natural cover and brains? Go for it. Rediculous mechanic so ganking is an easy task? Never!

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 11:49 AM
Palo god wrote:

r0ss0 wrote:

The carebears QQ
You the PK QQ

So what is the diffrence? :)

The ones that get game mechanics nerfed.

Its nerfed from your point of view, but it makes the game more enjoyable and playable for others.



I know exactly what this game is aiming to be because I’ve been on these forums longer then most people and actually read what the devs post. My goal in this game isn’t to watch copious amounts of villages grow into industrialized cities. If this game is good my goal will be to destroy entire villages(if they have worthwhile tech and resources) with a like minded tribe and take them for all their worth. The only crafting I’m planning to specialize in is metal work and herblore if they add illicit irl drugs, but I’m mostly going to be a pker if I actually decide to
play this game.

In this case get ready to be disappointed...I'm not saying you won't be able to do so, I'm saying we haven't got any information about destroying other tribe's villages.

I'm ready to be disappointed by this after Prelude as well, it may happen that the village fighting methods won't turn out in a way I would like. As I say, we just simply don't know.
My personal opinion is that if you only want to fight and craft a bit in this game you will miss out a lot...but its up to you of course. If I were a game developer, my goal would be to attract players who want to enjoy all of the features of my game, not only 1.

jessebfox
04-10-2010, 12:06 PM
Palo god wrote:

r0ss0 wrote:

The carebears QQ
You the PK QQ

So what is the diffrence? :)

The ones that get game mechanics nerfed.

So just to clarify:

If a game is designed to be pretty much catering to what many call 'carebears', by designing evil/pvp to be so rare that only 20% of the population become evil, and make it so that it is easy for the carebears to avoid fights, and then the PK QQ's to get the protection game mechanics nerfed, then you are saying it is the PK who is "ruining xsyon"?

Are you championing for the thread to be renamed "Will the PKers ruin Xsyon?"??

Or are you saying that what Virtus posted about the overall direction of the game as the devs want it is incorrect?

Reynolds
04-10-2010, 12:14 PM
Palo god wrote:

No, carebears do want to ruin my fun. “Carebears” are the people that whine to the devs to get everything involving pvp nerfed or extremely restricted after they lose their items as a result of their stupid decisions.

It sounds like you are looking for a completely unbalanced, unregulated grief fest. Where ever you find it, it will be a tiny niche community.

Hopefully Xsyon will be more of a game than that and you find a game more suited to your needs of a game. If Xsyon does become the game you want, I suspect it will become virtually empty within 6 months.

Most of the posts seem to be people asking for balanced gameplay, with a few rabid pvp players wanting the game to revolve around them and be a total grieffest and expect "carebears" to play ball and be easy targets for players like them.

Games that revolve around FFA griefing are very limited in scope and therefore only interest one fraction of the market. By balancing the gameplay so everyone has more fun than having "not fun" you'll reach a wider audience.

Of course some players want everything to revolve about their desire to grief.

Zarma
04-10-2010, 12:14 PM
I refuse to read this thread. The answer is:

Not if we kill em' first :D.

Vypre
04-10-2010, 12:22 PM
Carebear power baby! We dont want Xsyon to have anymore than 20% pvp. And if you do attack me, I can walk away from you while your stuck in a combat stance, doing a crab-walk while trying to keep up with me. But that wont even really matter because the prelude is one big safety-net, and where in the off-chance I might be in a remote location where it isn't, you'll need a declaration of war, which I wont agree to, in order to attack me.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 12:28 PM
jessebfox wrote:

Palo god wrote:

r0ss0 wrote:

The carebears QQ
You the PK QQ

So what is the diffrence? :)

The ones that get game mechanics nerfed.

So just to clarify:

If a game is designed to be pretty much catering to what many call 'carebears', by designing evil/pvp to be so rare that only 20% of the population become evil, and make it so that it is easy for the carebears to avoid fights, and then the PK QQ's to get the protection game mechanics nerfed, then you are saying it is the PK who is "ruining xsyon"?

Are you championing for the thread to be renamed "Will the PKers ruin Xsyon?"??

Or are you saying that what Virtus posted about the overall direction of the game as the devs want it is incorrect?


It's not catering to them. The 20% is to make a balance as 50% would make the game into one giant gank fest. Making the game playable isn't catering to "carebears". I can guarantee you that if this game doesn't get pvp right that it will fail harder and faster then MO and Dark fall. The direction of the game isn't to get no life crafters that grind making bows 24 hours a day that want pvp to only be allowed in certain areas.

Zarma
04-10-2010, 12:30 PM
On a more serious note, the game is supposed to have open pvp. It works in games like Wurm and Darkfall, and it's the way I like it. When I get killed I don't off and cry, I just either get stronger or get some strong friends, either way it worked out for the best. I honestly have to wonder why people enjoy walking about the world and picking berries without having so much as a mosquito biting their ass, it's much more entertaining when you have to worry about defenses. Whats the point of building some massive fortress if no ones going to attack it? And then, what's the point of having good gear and weapon and such with a strong character if no one ever attacks you? It really siphons the point of the game away if you never have to worry about getting killed. A lot of the fun of Dark Fall is in knowing that if you want to explore you have the risk of being castrated out on one of your hunting trips, or that some one is going to come up from behind and shove a sword through your gut while you're wood cutting. I like having choices, and when I feel like lodging an arrow in my enemies face I think I will do just that.

Open pvp opens possibilities to a lot of things that would other wise not exist. You say it will be a grief fest, but in Wurm it's the way we stop people from griefing. Some one comes over and starts digging down your farm, without open pvp you sit down and watch them, yelling various profanities and wishing they'd go away. With it, you walk over and stab them in their kidney, then watch them drag their mutilated corpse away and eventually bleed out over yonder hill. One is so much more satisfying.

If all you want to do is build stuff and craft you've got plenty of choices in games. Try habbo hotel, I think it'll be more to your taste.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 12:35 PM
Reynolds wrote:

Palo god wrote:

No, carebears do want to ruin my fun. “Carebears” are the people that whine to the devs to get everything involving pvp nerfed or extremely restricted after they lose their items as a result of their stupid decisions.

It sounds like you are looking for a completely unbalanced, unregulated grief fest. Where ever you find it, it will be a tiny niche community.

Hopefully Xsyon will be more of a game than that and you find a game more suited to your needs of a game. If Xsyon does become the game you want, I suspect it will become virtually empty within 6 months.

Most of the posts seem to be people asking for balanced gameplay, with a few rabid pvp players wanting the game to revolve around them and be a total grieffest and expect "carebears" to play ball and be easy targets for players like them.

Games that revolve around FFA griefing are very limited in scope and therefore only interest one fraction of the market. By balancing the gameplay so everyone has more fun than having "not fun" you'll reach a wider audience.

Of course some players want everything to revolve about their desire to grief.


No, I’m looking for a game where my pvp isn’t restricted because of oversized safe zones where people trying to avoid all pvp and craft 24/7 can safely do everything the game has to offer in. You obviously have no idea about the kind of game I want.

Zarma
04-10-2010, 12:37 PM
I think the only safe zones there should be are the ones people make and the few provided by developers, and even those shouldn't be completely safe. If you build a guard tower and it fights off monsters and players, that's fine. You had to make it, so it's fair game. If the player is strong enough to go through the guard tower and kill you, then that's fair game as well. So what do you do? You make stronger fortifications. You shouldn't be able to sit in the wilderness and expect to be completely safe.

I agree with Palo god.

Krux
04-10-2010, 12:38 PM
Palo god wrote:

jessebfox wrote:

Palo god wrote:

r0ss0 wrote:

The carebears QQ
You the PK QQ

So what is the diffrence? :)

The ones that get game mechanics nerfed.

So just to clarify:

If a game is designed to be pretty much catering to what many call 'carebears', by designing evil/pvp to be so rare that only 20% of the population become evil, and make it so that it is easy for the carebears to avoid fights, and then the PK QQ's to get the protection game mechanics nerfed, then you are saying it is the PK who is "ruining xsyon"?

Are you championing for the thread to be renamed "Will the PKers ruin Xsyon?"??

Or are you saying that what Virtus posted about the overall direction of the game as the devs want it is incorrect?


It's not catering to them. The 20% is to make a balance as 50% would make the game into one giant gank fest. Making the game playable isn't catering to "carebears". I can guarantee you that if this game doesn't get pvp right that it will fail harder and faster then MO and Dark fall. The direction of the game isn't to get no life crafters that grind making bows 24 hours a day that want pvp to only be allowed in certain areas.

Like EVE failed...ohh, wait. Lets be honest. This is the first time i've actually seen someone try to rationalize that 20%=balanced game-play.

Lets be honest. The devs are leaning toward pve instead of pvp with the hidden number of 20% many just learned about.

Thats fine, but dont pretend that its balanced game-play when numerically it isn't, and when the most popular pvpve indie game is EVE, which has struck that balance, rather than 20/80.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 12:38 PM
Vypre wrote:

Carebear power baby! We dont want Xsyon to have anymore than 20% pvp. And if you do attack me, I can walk away from you while your stuck in a combat stance, doing a crab-walk while trying to keep up with me. But that wont even really matter because the prelude is one big safety-net, and where in the off-chance I might be in a remote location where it isn't, you'll need a declaration of war, which I wont agree to, in order to attack me.

You don't have to agree to a declaration of war for a war to start. If you agree to one it just means you can choose when the battle starts and the terms of the battle. If you don't agree it will just start after a certain time.

I'm also sure that they will fix the slow crab walk attack style.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 12:44 PM
Krux wrote:

Palo god wrote:

jessebfox wrote:

Palo god wrote:

r0ss0 wrote:

The carebears QQ
You the PK QQ

So what is the diffrence? :)

The ones that get game mechanics nerfed.

So just to clarify:

If a game is designed to be pretty much catering to what many call 'carebears', by designing evil/pvp to be so rare that only 20% of the population become evil, and make it so that it is easy for the carebears to avoid fights, and then the PK QQ's to get the protection game mechanics nerfed, then you are saying it is the PK who is "ruining xsyon"?

Are you championing for the thread to be renamed "Will the PKers ruin Xsyon?"??

Or are you saying that what Virtus posted about the overall direction of the game as the devs want it is incorrect?


It's not catering to them. The 20% is to make a balance as 50% would make the game into one giant gank fest. Making the game playable isn't catering to "carebears". I can guarantee you that if this game doesn't get pvp right that it will fail harder and faster then MO and Dark fall. The direction of the game isn't to get no life crafters that grind making bows 24 hours a day that want pvp to only be allowed in certain areas.

Like EVE failed...ohh, wait. Lets be honest. This is the first time i've actually seen someone try to rationalize that 20%=balanced game-play.

Lets be honest. The devs are leaning toward pve instead of pvp with the hidden number of 20% many just learned about.

Thats fine, but dont pretend that its balanced game-play when numerically it isn't, and when the most popular pvpve indie game is EVE, which has struck that balance, rather than 20/80.

So you're saying a game mechanic has to be at 50% to be balanced? That's a stupid argument. EVE is a completely different game then the one Xsyon is trying to pull off. Don't compare apples and oranges.

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 12:51 PM
Palo god wrote:

Reynolds wrote:

Palo god wrote:

No, carebears do want to ruin my fun. “Carebears” are the people that whine to the devs to get everything involving pvp nerfed or extremely restricted after they lose their items as a result of their stupid decisions.

It sounds like you are looking for a completely unbalanced, unregulated grief fest. Where ever you find it, it will be a tiny niche community.

Hopefully Xsyon will be more of a game than that and you find a game more suited to your needs of a game. If Xsyon does become the game you want, I suspect it will become virtually empty within 6 months.

Most of the posts seem to be people asking for balanced gameplay, with a few rabid pvp players wanting the game to revolve around them and be a total grieffest and expect "carebears" to play ball and be easy targets for players like them.

Games that revolve around FFA griefing are very limited in scope and therefore only interest one fraction of the market. By balancing the gameplay so everyone has more fun than having "not fun" you'll reach a wider audience.

Of course some players want everything to revolve about their desire to grief.


No, I’m looking for a game where my pvp isn’t restricted because of oversized safe zones where people trying to avoid all pvp and craft 24/7 can safely do everything the game has to offer in. You obviously have no idea about the kind of game I want.

Then this is not the game you want...this one is planned to let the players to avoid PvP if they choose so.


You don't have to agree to a declaration of war for a war to start. If you agree to one it just means you can choose when the battle starts and the terms of the battle. If you don't agree it will just start after a certain time

We have absolutely zero information about this, so this is only your guess, not an announced feature.

On the side note, Virtus stated that the modification of the current combat mode is not an option.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 01:00 PM
Jadzia wrote:

We have absolutely zero information about this, so this is only your guess, not an announced feature.

On the side note, Virtus stated that the modification of the current combat mode is not an option.

Where did virtus state that a modification of the current combat mode is not an option? I’m pretty sure he stated the exact opposite. Zero information about the war declaration feature? Xsyon posted that declared war won’t be optional and that agreeing to it will just let you choose the terms of the battle.

Jadzia wrote:

Then this is not the game you want...this one is planned to let the players to avoid PvP if they choose.

Lol, no it’s not.

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 01:02 PM
Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

We have absolutely zero information about this, so this is only your guess, not an announced feature.

On the side note, Virtus stated that the modification of the current combat mode is not an option.

Where did virtus state that a modification of the current combat mode is not an option? I’m pretty sure he stated the exact opposite. Zero information about the war declaration feature? Xsyon posted that declared war won’t be optional and that agreeing to it will just let you choose the terms of the battle.

Jadzia wrote:

Then this is not the game you want...this one is planned to let the players to avoid PvP if they choose.

Lol, no it’s not.

here:
http://xsyon.com/forums/10-game-balance/12975-combat-mode-and-other-requests-and-issues?limit=10&start=50

Edit:
"indeed, the idea of combat mode is to allow those who want to run away to do so." quoted from Virtus.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 01:04 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

We have absolutely zero information about this, so this is only your guess, not an announced feature.

On the side note, Virtus stated that the modification of the current combat mode is not an option.

Where did virtus state that a modification of the current combat mode is not an option? I’m pretty sure he stated the exact opposite. Zero information about the war declaration feature? Xsyon posted that declared war won’t be optional and that agreeing to it will just let you choose the terms of the battle.

Jadzia wrote:

Then this is not the game you want...this one is planned to let the players to avoid PvP if they choose.

Lol, no it’s not.

here:
http://xsyon.com/forums/10-game-balance/12975-combat-mode-and-other-requests-and-issues?limit=10&start=50

"You do not have access to this forum!"

Maybe virtus should make the preorder forums viewable by none preorders but just not let them post.

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 01:06 PM
Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

We have absolutely zero information about this, so this is only your guess, not an announced feature.

On the side note, Virtus stated that the modification of the current combat mode is not an option.

Where did virtus state that a modification of the current combat mode is not an option? I’m pretty sure he stated the exact opposite. Zero information about the war declaration feature? Xsyon posted that declared war won’t be optional and that agreeing to it will just let you choose the terms of the battle.

Jadzia wrote:

Then this is not the game you want...this one is planned to let the players to avoid PvP if they choose.

Lol, no it’s not.

here:
http://xsyon.com/forums/10-game-balance/12975-combat-mode-and-other-requests-and-issues?limit=10&start=50

"You do not have access to this forum!"

Maybe virtus should make the preorder forums viewable by none preorders but just not let them post.

Virtus wrote:

Just a note, removal or modification of the current combat mode is not an option.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 01:09 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

We have absolutely zero information about this, so this is only your guess, not an announced feature.

On the side note, Virtus stated that the modification of the current combat mode is not an option.

Where did virtus state that a modification of the current combat mode is not an option? I’m pretty sure he stated the exact opposite. Zero information about the war declaration feature? Xsyon posted that declared war won’t be optional and that agreeing to it will just let you choose the terms of the battle.

Jadzia wrote:

Then this is not the game you want...this one is planned to let the players to avoid PvP if they choose.

Lol, no it’s not.

here:
http://xsyon.com/forums/10-game-balance/12975-combat-mode-and-other-requests-and-issues?limit=10&start=50

"You do not have access to this forum!"

Maybe virtus should make the preorder forums viewable by none preorders but just not let them post.

Virtus wrote:

Just a note, removal or modification of the current combat mode is not an option.

So the devs are just going to leave it how it is where people can get away if they don't feel like fighting anymore at 1HP?

CoolStoryBro
04-10-2010, 01:34 PM
Why would they say they are changing the combat system on one thread and then say they weren't on another? :S

20% of the population is still a lot of people btw, however if they make it so anyone can get away from an ambush most pvpers would probably leave. No ones gonna sit and be killed for the "challenge" of it when they can just run away at 10 hp.

Also human nature incurs change, even developers?!?!
telling someone to leave this game because your hypothesis say this game isn't for them is retarded.

Krux
04-10-2010, 02:07 PM
Palo god wrote:


So the devs are just going to leave it how it is where people can get away if they don't feel like fighting anymore at 1HP?

Yes. The way the system works in Xsyon, it appears, by actual developer & beta player input is that.

>open world
>everything is craftable
>open pvp
>a minority may only engage in open pvp as there is a 20% governor
>a defender can always get away b/c combat mode place an assailant in a limited mobility stance

Wrekkoning
04-10-2010, 02:13 PM
Right now only melee combat is implemented. Not ranged.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 02:22 PM
Wrekkoning wrote:

Right now only melee combat is implemented. Not ranged.

So? If it's kept the way it is now melee combat will be worthless.

jessebfox
04-10-2010, 02:33 PM
CoolStoryBro wrote:

Why would they say they are changing the combat system on one thread and then say they weren't on another? :S

20% of the population is still a lot of people btw, however if they make it so anyone can get away from an ambush most pvpers would probably leave. No ones gonna sit and be killed for the "challenge" of it when they can just run away at 10 hp.

Also human nature incurs change, even developers?!?!
telling someone to leave this game because your hypothesis say this game isn't for them is retarded.

If you check the thread I have linked twice they stated that they want it easy to avoid the fight, but that they want to make changes so that someone can't run away even at low hps.

I think the interesting thing here is that this thread started by a pker qq'ing about carebears who want to change the game and how the devs shouldn't listen to them and is now slowly evolving into pk'ers qqing about how the game already is and how the devs should not stick to their guns and should listen to the pkers. It's not there yet but it is pretty safe to say that is where it is heading.

btw they said they are tweaking the combat system but have also said part of those tweaks will NOT be removing of 'combat mode' that it is here to stay. They have stated they want to get it so that someone who stays and fights won't be able to easily run away when things go south, but they want it easy for people to avoid the fights in the first place.

jessebfox
04-10-2010, 02:38 PM
Palo god wrote:

Wrekkoning wrote:

Right now only melee combat is implemented. Not ranged.

So? If it's kept the way it is now melee combat will be worthless.

Unless melee combat does a whole bunch more damage than ranged, you may be right. but then again that may be the design. The combat may be designed to be sort of a shooter with some melee elements. Who knows? I didn't ask about these things and we can only hypothesize what the devs want.

(btw I am assuming you mean melee combat worthless compared to ranged. if you mean worthless for pvp, remember they stated that they want it pretty easy for people to avoid the pvp if they want.)

Really we need to wait for more combat to be implemented to really get an idea of what it is going to be like, but the part where pvp will be fairly easy to avoid is already stated what they want. If they change that, it will be because of the pvp people whining not the carebears.

For me, as long as the tribal warefare is interesting enough that prolly will be enough. It's hard to tell at this stage how entertaining the combat will be at all.

Krux
04-10-2010, 02:40 PM
Palo god wrote:

Wrekkoning wrote:

Right now only melee combat is implemented. Not ranged.

So? If it's kept the way it is now melee combat will be worthless.

If we're lucky, ranged combat will be as inefficient if I need to flee since you'd need line-of-site, firstly. Secondly, I can scoot between a tree or 2, and your inability to maneuver will be all i need to keep the trees between me and you.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 02:44 PM
Krux wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Wrekkoning wrote:

Right now only melee combat is implemented. Not ranged.

So? If it's kept the way it is now melee combat will be worthless.

If we're lucky, ranged combat will be as inefficient if I need to flee since you'd need line-of-site, firstly. Secondly, I can scoot between a tree or 2, and your inability to maneuver will be all i need to keep the trees between me and you.

Really weak trolling.

pid73
04-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Palo god wrote:



So? If it's kept the way it is now melee combat will be worthless.

Not at all. It would be perfect to defend yourself.
Only because it is useless to your intentions doesn't mean it is so from an objective viewpoint.

Cunk
04-10-2010, 02:50 PM
Palo god wrote:


So you're saying a game mechanic has to be at 50% to be balanced? That's a stupid argument. EVE is a completely different game then the one Xsyon is trying to pull off. Don't compare apples and oranges.
I agree you can't really compare EVE to Xsyon but I think that the balance EVE has accomplished (not going to apply a silly percentage to it) is something to strive for.

The biggest problem, however, is that EVE has several things going for it that help it accomplish that goal. Obviously the huge size of the map and the massive population contribute to an environment where PVE players have a reasonable expectation of safety if they're smart and conversely PVP players have plenty of targets to go after. Also, navigating around EVE requires you to move through chokepoints which is nice for pirates and PVP players.

The problem Xsyon will have is the small population and the likely lack of mechanics that allow careful PVE players to provide for their own safety (for example, in EVE, safe scanning spots for examining gates for bubbles). Conversely, I doubt there will be any serious chokepoints that can be used to trap careless PVE players.

In other words it's going to be hard to strike the balance in this game and will probably require a lot of trial and error. No one wants a pure PVE game but neither do we want the chaos that is Darkfall or Mortal Online. I'd say wait until we see how the game feels before writing it off.

r0ss0
04-10-2010, 02:51 PM
jessebfox wrote:

Palo god wrote:

r0ss0 wrote:

The carebears QQ
You the PK QQ

So what is the diffrence? :)

The ones that get game mechanics nerfed.

So just to clarify:

If a game is designed to be pretty much catering to what many call 'carebears', by designing evil/pvp to be so rare that only 20% of the population become evil, and make it so that it is easy for the carebears to avoid fights, and then the PK QQ's to get the protection game mechanics nerfed, then you are saying it is the PK who is "ruining xsyon"?

Are you championing for the thread to be renamed "Will the PKers ruin Xsyon?"??

Or are you saying that what Virtus posted about the overall direction of the game as the devs want it is incorrect?#
Wow. I've said neither . The game is not complete and only 20 or so have gotten in.

Wait for it to be more stable is the best thing anyone can do. What ever anyone says, Without no solid evidence the point is null and void.

Just because there is an evil side does not mean you are classed that out of the game , The evil side is also there to make the game work. So why are people assuming carebears are here to ruin it?

Just because they dont want another DF?

Palo god
04-10-2010, 02:52 PM
jessebfox wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Wrekkoning wrote:

Right now only melee combat is implemented. Not ranged.

So? If it's kept the way it is now melee combat will be worthless.

Unless melee combat does a whole bunch more damage than ranged, you may be right. but then again that may be the design. The combat may be designed to be sort of a shooter with some melee elements. Who knows? I didn't ask about these things and we can only hypothesize what the devs want.

(btw I am assuming you mean melee combat worthless compared to ranged. if you mean worthless for pvp, remember they stated that they want it pretty easy for people to avoid the pvp if they want.)

Really we need to wait for more combat to be implemented to really get an idea of what it is going to be like, but the part where pvp will be fairly easy to avoid is already stated what they want. If they change that, it will be because of the pvp people whining not the carebears.

For me, as long as the tribal warefare is interesting enough that prolly will be enough. It's hard to tell at this stage how entertaining the combat will be at all.

The damage it inflicts won’t mater if you can’t hit the person because they can flee too fast. If you’ve noticed in the videos the player speed while in combat mode is way too slow to be viable for anything. Combat shouldn’t be easy to avoid and literally moving at crawling speed while in melee combat is completely unrealistic.


pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:



So? If it's kept the way it is now melee combat will be worthless.

Not at all. It would be perfect to defend yourself.
Only because it is useless to your intentions doesn't mean it is so from an objective viewpoint.

Why defend yourself using melee and take damage when you can just flee in the beginning and take no damage? Again, it’s worthless how it currently is.

pid73
04-10-2010, 02:54 PM
remember that an empty village is easy to tear down. so the villagers will eventually have to defend themselves or their resources. you can run if you want but sometimes it's not a viable option.

to not be able to run away means that you only can play this game if you are on the correct side of the knife. in the end, everybody would necessarily gear up for pvp and soon there wouldn't be anything else you can enjoy, as all other activities would be impossible to enjoy...

r0ss0
04-10-2010, 02:54 PM
That part of it is to be reworked im sure

pid73
04-10-2010, 02:57 PM
Cunk wrote:


No one wants a pure PVE game but neither do we want the chaos that is Darkfall or Mortal Online.

Well said, my friend, well said.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 03:00 PM
pid73 wrote:

remember that an empty village is easy to tear down. so the villagers will eventually have to defend themselves or their resources. you can run if you want but sometimes it's not a viable option.

to not be able to run away means that you only can play this game if you are on the correct side of the knife. in the end, everybody would necessarily gear up for pvp and soon there wouldn't be anything else you can enjoy, as all other activities would be impossible to enjoy...

Not necessarily as I don't want to make it so people can't run away, but it shouldn't be easy, especially if it's an ambush and the target is surrounded by all sides. People shouldn't be able to stay and fight in an ambush against them and easily run out at 10% hp when they don't want to fight anymore. Running away from a battle and actually getting out alive should be hard.

There are other systems in place to make sure players can do other activities. Like the bounty system xsyon and virtus mentioned. If a player or tribe constantly attack and grief everyone they will eventually be destoryed as the number of the enemies and bounties against them grow.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 03:03 PM
jessebfox wrote:

CoolStoryBro wrote:

Why would they say they are changing the combat system on one thread and then say they weren't on another? :S

20% of the population is still a lot of people btw, however if they make it so anyone can get away from an ambush most pvpers would probably leave. No ones gonna sit and be killed for the "challenge" of it when they can just run away at 10 hp.

Also human nature incurs change, even developers?!?!
telling someone to leave this game because your hypothesis say this game isn't for them is retarded.

If you check the thread I have linked twice they stated that they want it easy to avoid the fight, but that they want to make changes so that someone can't run away even at low hps.

I think the interesting thing here is that this thread started by a pker qq'ing about carebears who want to change the game and how the devs shouldn't listen to them and is now slowly evolving into pk'ers qqing about how the game already is and how the devs should not stick to their guns and should listen to the pkers. It's not there yet but it is pretty safe to say that is where it is heading.

btw they said they are tweaking the combat system but have also said part of those tweaks will NOT be removing of 'combat mode' that it is here to stay. They have stated they want to get it so that someone who stays and fights won't be able to easily run away when things go south, but they want it easy for people to avoid the fights in the first place.

How am I QQing about the game? Stating flaws that you want fixed and asking how the devs will respond to later player base changes is QQing? Stop making retarded posts.

pid73
04-10-2010, 03:12 PM
Palo god wrote:



Not necessarily as I don't want to make it so people can't run away, but it shouldn't be easy, especially if it's an ambush and the target is surrounded by all sides.


If you manage to arrange an ambush of that scale then, in fact, the victim(s) should not be able to run.

and opposing factions should be able to block each other, so you can't run if you are surrounded.

but group-banging has to be compensated somehow or we are back to the old problem of a game-breaking mechanic that ruins the community and finally the game, just like in DFO and MO.

So if you want to have the run-mechanic "corrected" then a new error appears (no-choice to escape from pvp) that also needs to be "corrected". mind that both ways the gameplay would be broken. no-one wants extremes (only pve but also not only pvp).

so, to be really helpful, you should find a REAL way of balancing this and not just QQ as you are doing for days now.

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 03:25 PM
Palo god wrote:


How am I QQing about the game? Stating flaws that you want fixed and asking how the devs will respond to later player base changes is QQing? Stop making retarded posts.

Now this really made me laugh. When you are stating flaws and you want them fixed thats not QQing, if a non-PvP player does the same thats QQing. Lol. Nvm :)


So the devs are just going to leave it how it is where people can get away if they don't feel like fighting anymore at 1HP?

About this: they might leave it how it is right now, but most of the suggestions were about this question.I think everyone (including non-PvPers) agreed that a person shouldn't be able to run away when he is about to loose the fight, they suggested the HP should effect the running speed, a seriously wounded person shouldn't run as fast as a healthy one. But a healthy player who only got some hits will always be able to flee if he choose to do so.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 03:26 PM
pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:



Not necessarily as I don't want to make it so people can't run away, but it shouldn't be easy, especially if it's an ambush and the target is surrounded by all sides.


If you manage to arrange an ambush of that scale then, in fact, the victim(s) should not be able to run.

and opposing factions should be able to block each other, so you can't run if you are surrounded.

but group-banging has to be compensated somehow or we are back to the old problem of a game-breaking mechanic that ruins the community and finally the game, just like in DFO and MO.

So if you want to have the run-mechanic "corrected" then a new error appears (no-choice to escape from pvp) that also needs to be "corrected". mind that both ways the gameplay would be broken. no-one wants extremes (only pve but also not only pvp).

so, to be really helpful, you should find a REAL way of balancing this and not just QQ as you are doing for days now.

It's not my job to find fixes for every problem in a game. I'm merely pointing them out. The only people QQing are the people rushing to the defense of broken game mechanics. Kinda reminds me of dark fall when people would suggest fixes for problems and the fan boys would flame them to hell saying everything was fine how it was.

The changes won't break the game if there are other mechanics keeping them in order like the bounty system which will lead to later consequences for the constant griefers.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 03:31 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:


How am I QQing about the game? Stating flaws that you want fixed and asking how the devs will respond to later player base changes is QQing? Stop making retarded posts.

Now this really made me laugh. When you are stating flaws and you want them fixed thats not QQing, if a non-PvP player does the same thats QQing. Lol. Nvm :)


So the devs are just going to leave it how it is where people can get away if they don't feel like fighting anymore at 1HP?

About this: they might leave it how it is right now, but most of the suggestions were about this question.I think everyone (including non-PvPers) agreed that a person shouldn't be able to run away when he is about to loose the fight, they suggested the HP should effect the running speed, a seriously wounded person shouldn't run as fast as a healthy one. But a healthy player who only got some hits will always be able to flee if he choose to do so.

There is a difference between fine tuning a core mechanic and completely changing/removing it. You not being able to craft 24 hours a day while being 100% safe isn’t a flaw.

They should just make it so if you’re being attacked your running speed goes down added in with even greater lowered running speed if you have low hp. A healthy player shouldn't be able to flee easily unless he is a fair distance away from the pker. This is where stealth would come in to kill targets.

Krux
04-10-2010, 03:32 PM
Palo god wrote:

jessebfox wrote:

CoolStoryBro wrote:

Why would they say they are changing the combat system on one thread and then say they weren't on another? :S

20% of the population is still a lot of people btw, however if they make it so anyone can get away from an ambush most pvpers would probably leave. No ones gonna sit and be killed for the "challenge" of it when they can just run away at 10 hp.

Also human nature incurs change, even developers?!?!
telling someone to leave this game because your hypothesis say this game isn't for them is retarded.

If you check the thread I have linked twice they stated that they want it easy to avoid the fight, but that they want to make changes so that someone can't run away even at low hps.

I think the interesting thing here is that this thread started by a pker qq'ing about carebears who want to change the game and how the devs shouldn't listen to them and is now slowly evolving into pk'ers qqing about how the game already is and how the devs should not stick to their guns and should listen to the pkers. It's not there yet but it is pretty safe to say that is where it is heading.

btw they said they are tweaking the combat system but have also said part of those tweaks will NOT be removing of 'combat mode' that it is here to stay. They have stated they want to get it so that someone who stays and fights won't be able to easily run away when things go south, but they want it easy for people to avoid the fights in the first place.

How am I QQing about the game? Stating flaws that you want fixed and asking how the devs will respond to later player base changes is QQing? Stop making retarded posts.

Honestly, you want to be a pk'r. But the advantage should go to me, who doesnt want to be disturbed in-game. So, yes, you shouldn't be advantaged to be able to catch me, as the game seems to already be designed.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 03:34 PM
Krux wrote:

Palo god wrote:

jessebfox wrote:

CoolStoryBro wrote:

Why would they say they are changing the combat system on one thread and then say they weren't on another? :S

20% of the population is still a lot of people btw, however if they make it so anyone can get away from an ambush most pvpers would probably leave. No ones gonna sit and be killed for the "challenge" of it when they can just run away at 10 hp.

Also human nature incurs change, even developers?!?!
telling someone to leave this game because your hypothesis say this game isn't for them is retarded.

If you check the thread I have linked twice they stated that they want it easy to avoid the fight, but that they want to make changes so that someone can't run away even at low hps.

I think the interesting thing here is that this thread started by a pker qq'ing about carebears who want to change the game and how the devs shouldn't listen to them and is now slowly evolving into pk'ers qqing about how the game already is and how the devs should not stick to their guns and should listen to the pkers. It's not there yet but it is pretty safe to say that is where it is heading.

btw they said they are tweaking the combat system but have also said part of those tweaks will NOT be removing of 'combat mode' that it is here to stay. They have stated they want to get it so that someone who stays and fights won't be able to easily run away when things go south, but they want it easy for people to avoid the fights in the first place.

How am I QQing about the game? Stating flaws that you want fixed and asking how the devs will respond to later player base changes is QQing? Stop making retarded posts.

Honestly, you want to be a pk'r. But the advantage should go to me, who doesnt want to be disturbed in-game. So, yes, you shouldn't be advantaged to be able to catch me, as the game seems to already be designed.

If you don't want to be attacked in game don't play an FFA pvp game.

pid73
04-10-2010, 03:46 PM
Palo god wrote:


It's not my job to find fixes for every problem in a game. I'm merely pointing them out.


No, you are also suggesting solutions which break things on other sides. Look, I'm being serious here. I think it is a good thing to point out problems but a "quick fix" may do more damage then the problem itself. the pvp system most probably requires more work (in fact we don't know because we are all just making assumptions). but it really has to balance the game. from what i have read so far on many threads (not all, though) is an overly simplified understanding of the implications. if a player suggests "make it so that others can NEVER run away from a fight" i just skip to the end, because i understand immediately that this man does not know what he's talking about.

my previous post was an invite to think about the problems objectively and to try to find real solutions.

Palo god wrote:


The changes won't break the game if there are other mechanics keeping them in order like the bounty system which will lead to later consequences for the constant griefers.

how can you say that? are you graduated in game design?

don't think i'm completely against your point of view, i like pvp and DO NOT like vanilla pve. in fact i avoid those MMOs. i enjoyed very much MO (earlier beta days), EVE, SWG and back in the days UO. still, many things i read are non-sense.

:silly:

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 03:52 PM
Palo god wrote:


There is a difference between fine tuning a core mechanic and completely changing/removing it. You not being able to craft 24 hours a day while being 100% safe isn’t a flaw.

They should just make it so if you’re being attacked your running speed goes down added in with even greater lowered running speed if you have low hp. A healthy player shouldn't be able to flee easily unless he is a fair distance away from the pker. This is where stealth would come in to kill targets.

No, you still don't get it. The ability to flee away from an attack...this IS the core mechanic of the game. This is not a flaw what should be fixed...this is a feature what was the part of the original game idea.

And I'm sure this idea will keep the game healthy and running, because PvPers will find meaningful challenging fights with likeminded players, and non-PvPers will be able to enjoy the game as well since they won't be bugged.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 03:55 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:


There is a difference between fine tuning a core mechanic and completely changing/removing it. You not being able to craft 24 hours a day while being 100% safe isn’t a flaw.

They should just make it so if you’re being attacked your running speed goes down added in with even greater lowered running speed if you have low hp. A healthy player shouldn't be able to flee easily unless he is a fair distance away from the pker. This is where stealth would come in to kill targets.

No, you still don't get it. The ability to flee away from an attack...this IS the core mechanic of the game. This is not a flaw what should be fixed...this is a feature what was the part of the original game idea.

And I'm sure this idea will keep the game healthy and running, because PvPers will find meaningful challenging fights with likeminded players, and non-PvPers will be able to enjoy the game as well since they won't be bugged.

I'm not trying to get running away removed as a mechanic. Actually argue against something I'm advocating for. non-pvp players shouldn't be able to make themselves 100% safe by being able to run away every single time they get into trouble.

Wingnut
04-10-2010, 03:58 PM
Notice how important it is to handle pvp properly? Plenty of games out there for folks to gank each other endlessly. I'm hoping this will not be one of them. Need to be careful and pay attention. Sounds ok. Need to be able to catch whoever I want and force them to fight. Nope, not for me thanks. Do I want to be safe all the time no matter what? Definately not. A reasonable balance between careful and dead would be nice. Immune from danger when being dumb? No, that is how we learn. By trying different methods we can find a successful technique for just about anything. What do I want in a game more than anything? FUN! Even if I'm getting beat up; make it fun. How about the attacker can leave me at deaths door and walk away? (after taking my lunch money) Now I have a black eye, puffy lip, and maybe a broken nose to show everyone. The others in my tribe now have a warning to be careful. I heal and learn from it. Could be silly, but why not? Its a game.

Kitsume
04-10-2010, 04:01 PM
Palo god wrote:

Krux wrote:

Palo god wrote:

jessebfox wrote:

CoolStoryBro wrote:

Why would they say they are changing the combat system on one thread and then say they weren't on another? :S

20% of the population is still a lot of people btw, however if they make it so anyone can get away from an ambush most pvpers would probably leave. No ones gonna sit and be killed for the "challenge" of it when they can just run away at 10 hp.

Also human nature incurs change, even developers?!?!
telling someone to leave this game because your hypothesis say this game isn't for them is retarded.

If you check the thread I have linked twice they stated that they want it easy to avoid the fight, but that they want to make changes so that someone can't run away even at low hps.

I think the interesting thing here is that this thread started by a pker qq'ing about carebears who want to change the game and how the devs shouldn't listen to them and is now slowly evolving into pk'ers qqing about how the game already is and how the devs should not stick to their guns and should listen to the pkers. It's not there yet but it is pretty safe to say that is where it is heading.

btw they said they are tweaking the combat system but have also said part of those tweaks will NOT be removing of 'combat mode' that it is here to stay. They have stated they want to get it so that someone who stays and fights won't be able to easily run away when things go south, but they want it easy for people to avoid the fights in the first place.

How am I QQing about the game? Stating flaws that you want fixed and asking how the devs will respond to later player base changes is QQing? Stop making retarded posts.

Honestly, you want to be a pk'r. But the advantage should go to me, who doesnt want to be disturbed in-game. So, yes, you shouldn't be advantaged to be able to catch me, as the game seems to already be designed.

If you don't want to be attacked in game don't play an FFA pvp game.

Jeez you really need to lay off the QQ.

from the FAQ:
11.) Will there be PvP?
Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences

No where does it say Xsyon is a FFA style game. Open PvP does not mean FFA PvP. Get over it.

I'n not going to hunt down every quote, I've done that already. But the devs have said more than once they will not let Xsyon become another gankfest. If that is your intention, then maybe you should start packing your bags.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 04:04 PM
Kitsume wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Krux wrote:

Palo god wrote:

jessebfox wrote:

CoolStoryBro wrote:

Why would they say they are changing the combat system on one thread and then say they weren't on another? :S

20% of the population is still a lot of people btw, however if they make it so anyone can get away from an ambush most pvpers would probably leave. No ones gonna sit and be killed for the "challenge" of it when they can just run away at 10 hp.

Also human nature incurs change, even developers?!?!
telling someone to leave this game because your hypothesis say this game isn't for them is retarded.

If you check the thread I have linked twice they stated that they want it easy to avoid the fight, but that they want to make changes so that someone can't run away even at low hps.

I think the interesting thing here is that this thread started by a pker qq'ing about carebears who want to change the game and how the devs shouldn't listen to them and is now slowly evolving into pk'ers qqing about how the game already is and how the devs should not stick to their guns and should listen to the pkers. It's not there yet but it is pretty safe to say that is where it is heading.

btw they said they are tweaking the combat system but have also said part of those tweaks will NOT be removing of 'combat mode' that it is here to stay. They have stated they want to get it so that someone who stays and fights won't be able to easily run away when things go south, but they want it easy for people to avoid the fights in the first place.

How am I QQing about the game? Stating flaws that you want fixed and asking how the devs will respond to later player base changes is QQing? Stop making retarded posts.

Honestly, you want to be a pk'r. But the advantage should go to me, who doesnt want to be disturbed in-game. So, yes, you shouldn't be advantaged to be able to catch me, as the game seems to already be designed.

If you don't want to be attacked in game don't play an FFA pvp game.

Jeez you really need to lay off the QQ.

from the FAQ:
11.) Will there be PvP?
Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences

No where does it say Xsyon is a FFA style game. Open PvP does not mean FFA PvP. Get over it.

I'n not going to hunt down every quote, I've done that already. But the devs have said more than once they will not let Xsyon become another gankfest. If that is your intention, then maybe you should start packing your bags.

Considering how we will be able to attack anywhere after prelude it's going to be ffa pvp. Making me smile with your pointless post isn't exactly QQing if you even know what that means.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 04:09 PM
Wingnut wrote:

Notice how important it is to handle pvp properly? Plenty of games out there for folks to gank each other endlessly. I'm hoping this will not be one of them. Need to be careful and pay attention. Sounds ok. Need to be able to catch whoever I want and force them to fight. Nope, not for me thanks. Do I want to be safe all the time no matter what? Definately not. A reasonable balance between careful and dead would be nice. Immune from danger when being dumb? No, that is how we learn. By trying different methods we can find a successful technique for just about anything. What do I want in a game more than anything? FUN! Even if I'm getting beat up; make it fun. How about the attacker can leave me at deaths door and walk away? (after taking my lunch money) Now I have a black eye, puffy lip, and maybe a broken nose to show everyone. The others in my tribe now have a warning to be careful. I heal and learn from it. Could be silly, but why not? Its a game.

Well most pkers probably wont go after people just mining nods as the weight system will be realistic and you wont be able to completely loot them with your carrying limit. virtus also mentioned a knock out feature so you won't be killed. I think most pvpers are going to go after large sums of items when merchants are carrying them between tribe cities on carriages or something similar.

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 04:23 PM
Palo god wrote:


Considering how we will be able to attack anywhere after prelude it's going to be ffa pvp. Making me smile with your pointless post isn't exactly QQing if you even know what that means.
Open PvP or FFA PvP is a technique. It means you can attack anyone, anywhere, anytime. But it doesn't say ANYTHING about the defensive side. You can attack...but that doesn't grant you a fight.

Just giving some silly examples to make it clear (I'm not saying any of these is realistic or I want them to be implied, no way) :

You attack someone, but after the first hit a thunder comes from the sky and kills you. Is it FFA PvP ? Yes.

You attack a crafter, but he gets out a force field generator from his backpack, and you can hit him only with 0.1% of your normal hit. Is it still FFA PvP ? You were able to attack, so yes.

To give a more realistic example, you are out in the forest, you see a player with no armor and you attack him...suddenly he wears his uber-epic armor which was hidden in his backpack, gets out his godly weapon and you are unable to injure him seriously...is it FFA PvP? Absolutely. And while you would probably complain about the second idea, you wouldn't have any problem with the last one...though its totally the same, you are just not used to the thought that a non-PvP player may have a strong defense.

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 04:27 PM
Palo god wrote:

Wingnut wrote:

Notice how important it is to handle pvp properly? Plenty of games out there for folks to gank each other endlessly. I'm hoping this will not be one of them. Need to be careful and pay attention. Sounds ok. Need to be able to catch whoever I want and force them to fight. Nope, not for me thanks. Do I want to be safe all the time no matter what? Definately not. A reasonable balance between careful and dead would be nice. Immune from danger when being dumb? No, that is how we learn. By trying different methods we can find a successful technique for just about anything. What do I want in a game more than anything? FUN! Even if I'm getting beat up; make it fun. How about the attacker can leave me at deaths door and walk away? (after taking my lunch money) Now I have a black eye, puffy lip, and maybe a broken nose to show everyone. The others in my tribe now have a warning to be careful. I heal and learn from it. Could be silly, but why not? Its a game.

Well most pkers probably wont go after people just mining nods as the weight system will be realistic and you wont be able to completely loot them with your carrying limit. virtus also mentioned a knock out feature so you won't be killed. I think most pvpers are going to go after large sums of items when merchants are carrying them between tribe cities on carriages or something similar.

In this case there is no reason for you to worry, carriages will be slow, so if the crafters run away from the fight that means they leave their carriages alone and you will get all the loot. Noone in his right mind would do that, so this is a PvP feature which won't be effected by the combat mode speed.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 04:31 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:


Considering how we will be able to attack anywhere after prelude it's going to be ffa pvp. Making me smile with your pointless post isn't exactly QQing if you even know what that means.
Open PvP or FFA PvP is a technique. It means you can attack anyone, anywhere, anytime. But it doesn't say ANYTHING about the defensive side. You can attack...but that doesn't grant you a fight.

Just giving some silly examples to make it clear (I'm not saying any of these is realistic or I want them to be implied, no way) :

You attack someone, but after the first hit a thunder comes from the sky and kills you. Is it FFA PvP ? Yes.

You attack a crafter, but he gets out a force field generator from his backpack, and you can hit him only with 0.1% of your normal hit. Is it still FFA PvP ? You were able to attack, so yes.

To give a more realistic example, you are out in the forest, you see a player with no armor and you attack him...suddenly he wears his uber-epic armor which was hidden in his backpack, gets out his godly weapon and you are unable to injure him seriously...is it FFA PvP? Absolutely. And while you would probably complain about the second idea, you wouldn't have any problem with the last one...though its totally the same, you are just not used to the thought that a non-PvP player may have a strong defense.

Considering the game has realistic weight limits people aren’t going wear most of their gear while nod hunting. Stop giving out unrealistic situations and get back to the kitchen women.

r0ss0
04-10-2010, 04:37 PM
Why the kitchen? dont you mean the Bathroom to get you a towel to soak you QQ's up . Or do you want her to get the kettle so you can cry into that and have a cup of stfu?

Either way. Your Questions have been answered but you still sit on your spot refusing to listen . Good luck see you in game.

Baldur
04-10-2010, 04:42 PM
What's more carebear than making a thread complaining about carebears?

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 04:42 PM
Palo god wrote:


Considering the game has realistic weight limits people aren’t going wear most of their gear while nod hunting. Stop giving out unrealistic situations and get back to the kitchen women.

Who said he was nod hunting ? Only baiting silly guys like you :P

And with your mindset about women you should join the Mullah tribe...I'm sure you would make a very valuable member there :lol:

But I'm glad to see you are improving your irony, this post was much better than the ones earlier about period blood :blink:

Palo god
04-10-2010, 04:45 PM
Baldur wrote:

What's more carebear than making a thread complaining about carebears?

Asking about possible nerfs based on a possible future player base and pointing out how melee combat is worthless how it is=/= complaining about carebears.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 04:49 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:


Considering the game has realistic weight limits people aren’t going wear most of their gear while nod hunting. Stop giving out unrealistic situations and get back to the kitchen women.

Who said he was nod hunting ? Only baiting silly guys like you :P

And with your mindset about women you should join the Mullah tribe...I'm sure you would make a very valuable member there :lol:

But I'm glad to see you are improving your irony, this post was much better than the ones earlier about period blood :blink:

I'll just kill him while he's putting on his gear. I prefer my current tribe for spreading my word. The word of god.

Ravel
04-10-2010, 05:24 PM
Well, I don't know whether it is any comfort to anyone but threads like this do not exactly make me want to play this game.

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 05:27 PM
Ravel wrote:

Well, I don't know whether it is any comfort to anyone but threads like this do not exactly make me want to play this game.

Never judge a game from the forums :)

Palo god
04-10-2010, 05:28 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Ravel wrote:

Well, I don't know whether it is any comfort to anyone but threads like this do not exactly make me want to play this game.

Never judge a game from the forums :)

Don't listen to her. She's a women.

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 05:31 PM
Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Ravel wrote:

Well, I don't know whether it is any comfort to anyone but threads like this do not exactly make me want to play this game.

Never judge a game from the forums :)

Don't listen to her. She's a women.

woman actually...you know, women means more woman :P
But Ravel, you can listen to Palo God, see how educated he is :laugh:

Palo god
04-10-2010, 05:33 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Ravel wrote:

Well, I don't know whether it is any comfort to anyone but threads like this do not exactly make me want to play this game.

Never judge a game from the forums :)

Don't listen to her. She's a women.

woman actually...you know, women means more woman :P
But Ravel, you can listen to Palo God, see how educated he is :laugh:

You're damn right he should. We can't all be lucky enough to be born as superior beings.

Jadzia
04-10-2010, 05:39 PM
Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Ravel wrote:

Well, I don't know whether it is any comfort to anyone but threads like this do not exactly make me want to play this game.

Never judge a game from the forums :)

Don't listen to her. She's a women.

woman actually...you know, women means more woman :P
But Ravel, you can listen to Palo God, see how educated he is :laugh:

You're damn right he should. We can't all be lucky enough to be born as superior beings.

Hmm I leave it to Ravel's wisdom to decide it.

jessebfox
04-10-2010, 07:28 PM
Jadzia, you are easily trolled. Really.

r0ss0 you quoted me quoting someone else and thought I was responding to you, I think.

Palo....just lol.

Ravel, give it time. a number of threads will pop up by violent people who want this to be a ffa pvp game that centers on the ffa pvp. When it is neither. It is an open pvp game that has consequences for pvp and which the designers intend:

pvp to be a small to lesser part of the game, certainly not a central part or on par with other features, where someone can easily run away from a fight, but better choose to run away right away because it will be hard to run away if they decide to stick around for a fight and see it went wrong. And finally they intend for the pvp part to be rare.

I sense there are a number of people who thought this game would be more towards the line of a free for all pvp, which I can understand, I thought it was going to be more like that at first as well. Now some are lashing out and are angry because it will not be like that. Some are quietly going away to find other games. Others are shifting focus and realizing this will be a different game than they initially thought. At least misconceptions are getting out of the way.

Think of this as a cleansing thread.

Get it all out, Palo. It will be ok. Just get it all out. You still have MO, I hear they are making drastic improvements on the desync there.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 07:51 PM
MO isn’t worth the shit that it was coded on. We’ll see how Xsyon turns out.

Zarma
04-10-2010, 07:52 PM
jessebfox wrote:

Jadzia, you are easily trolled. Really.

r0ss0 you quoted me quoting someone else and thought I was responding to you, I think.

Palo....just lol.

Ravel, give it time. a number of threads will pop up by violent people who want this to be a ffa pvp game that centers on the ffa pvp. When it is neither. It is an open pvp game that has consequences for pvp and which the designers intend:

pvp to be a small to lesser part of the game, certainly not a central part or on par with other features, where someone can easily run away from a fight, but better choose to run away right away because it will be hard to run away if they decide to stick around for a fight and see it went wrong. And finally they intend for the pvp part to be rare.

I sense there are a number of people who thought this game would be more towards the line of a free for all pvp, which I can understand, I thought it was going to be more like that at first as well. Now some are lashing out and are angry because it will not be like that. Some are quietly going away to find other games. Others are shifting focus and realizing this will be a different game than they initially thought. At least misconceptions are getting out of the way.

Think of this as a cleansing thread.

Get it all out, Palo. It will be ok. Just get it all out. You still have MO, I hear they are making drastic improvements on the desync there.



11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

http://www.xsyon.com/faq

I'm pretty sure this is what he was talking about. This is also what I was talking about.

-Thanks!

jessebfox
04-10-2010, 10:03 PM
No, Zarma, he is ignoring the "with consequences" part and the part where the devs said the long term direction and their idea of where they want the game to be as far as this is concerned, then turned it in to "ffa pvp" which it is not, nor was it ever intended to be. Consequences denote restrictions, which therefore can not be ffa. Not by most people's definition at least.

This is why I started the post click here for post (http://www.xsyon.com/forums/7-public-support/16083-very-long-4-questions-for-jooky). To get clarification. Now that there is clarification, some are upset. If the clarification was the other way and true ffa pvp would be the direction of the game, others would be upset and I would still be here referring to a link that many don't want to accept.

Basically, if you want ffa pvp without restrictions where it is not easy for someone to just run away, find another game. It has been made pretty clear about that at this point.

Zarma
04-10-2010, 10:18 PM
Depends who most people are.

Consequences imply that your able to do something in the first place. If the game stops you from doing something there doesn't have to be a consequence. "ffa pvp" as you put it for me means that there is always the choice to attack some one, instead of the game actually telling you that you can not.

It says open pvp with consequences and the towns are safe zones, which leaves room for interpretation. As far as I can tell, even from his post that you linked, he is saying it is possible to attack some one anywhere, however most people will shy away from it because of consequences.

I haven't read all of Polo's post, so I don't know what hes thinking of. Anyway, it seems to be in order. The game wouldn't be fun without consequences anyway. I'm trying to say that it shouldn't be so that, as Virtus mentioned, a player with a lot of valuables walking completely unarmed down a wilderness road doesn't have a chance of being poached for his goods.

Palo god
04-10-2010, 10:35 PM
Zarma wrote:

Depends who most people are.

Consequences imply that your able to do something in the first place. If the game stops you from doing something there doesn't have to be a consequence. "ffa pvp" as you put it for me means that there is always the choice to attack some one, instead of the game actually telling you that you can not.

It says open pvp with consequences and the towns are safe zones, which leaves room for interpretation. As far as I can tell, even from his post that you linked, he is saying it is possible to attack some one anywhere, however most people will shy away from it because of consequences.

I haven't read all of Polo's post, so I don't know what hes thinking of. Anyway, it seems to be in order. The game wouldn't be fun without consequences anyway. I'm trying to say that it shouldn't be so that, as Virtus mentioned, a player with a lot of valuables walking completely unarmed down a wilderness road doesn't have a chance of being poached for his goods.

Only the good and neutral tribe towns are safe zones and after prelude they won't be safe zones anymore. As long as there aren't too many safe zones and the combat is made right I'll be happy with the game. That is, as long as everything else they promised makes it in game.

Ciik
04-10-2010, 10:42 PM
I's this the spill-over thread from the PvP vs PK post? I guess I can believe that trying to hash something out on a message board might be liberating, but no one knows what precisely is going to occur without game-play experience, once the game is in a playable state.

I'd tend to bet on one thing; that no one wants a pve-heavy game where it's nothing more than a mob-hunting, crafting simulation, and no one wants a mindless environment of ffa third-person shooters flailing at anything that moves.

The majority will want a balance, and what that exactly means in Xsyon and how it will be accomplished without feeling too pve mundane or too pvp hectic is anyone's guess at this point.

jessebfox
04-10-2010, 11:56 PM
Ciik wrote:

I's this the spill-over thread from the PvP vs PK post? I guess I can believe that trying to hash something out on a message board might be liberating, but no one knows what precisely is going to occur without game-play experience, once the game is in a playable state.

I'd tend to bet on one thing; that no one wants a pve-heavy game where it's nothing more than a mob-hunting, crafting simulation, and no one wants a mindless environment of ffa third-person shooters flailing at anything that moves.

The majority will want a balance, and what that exactly means in Xsyon and how it will be accomplished without feeling too pve mundane or too pvp hectic is anyone's guess at this point.

Very well put, I agree whole heartedly.

pid73
04-11-2010, 02:23 AM
Palo god wrote:


Stop giving out unrealistic situations and get back to the kitchen women.

with this post I understand that you must be a childish, very sad, lonely and depressed kid. if you are above 20 go and visit a clinic, your aggressiveness is a symptom of schizoid behaviour that should be treated as such:

I tell you this to protect you from yourself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_addiction)

pid73
04-11-2010, 02:26 AM
Palo god wrote:

MO isn’t worth the shit that it was coded on. We’ll see how Xsyon turns out.

/* no comment */

I'm trying hard to respect the forums' policies.

Numz
04-11-2010, 03:52 AM
I'm pretty sure who you call Xsyon carebear are actually going to keep this kind of games alive. After all, PKs tend to destroy a community, and Socializers and Crafters tend to keep the economy and player content alive and solid. UO and AC/DT were based on both type of players and that balance kept these games alives for years.

(even tho I'm a pk and I come from DF and I'm going to gank your crafter :laugh: )

pid73
04-11-2010, 04:03 AM
Numz wrote:

I'm pretty sure who you call Xsyon carebear are actually going to keep this kind of games alive. After all, PKs tend to destroy a community, and Socializers and Crafters tend to keep the economy and player content alive and solid. UO and AC/DT were based on both type of players and that balance kept these games alives for years.

(even tho I'm a pk and I come from DF and I'm going to gank your crafter :laugh: )

you talin' to me?
I'm a PK in other games too, but this doesn't mean I'm narrow minded and don't enjoy also other activities. This game seems perfect to do those "other things". when I want to PvP I boot MO or GA.

So... don't count on what ya sayin' there.

Palo god
04-11-2010, 09:27 AM
pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:


Stop giving out unrealistic situations and get back to the kitchen women.

with this post I understand that you must be a childish, very sad, lonely and depressed kid. if you are above 20 go and visit a clinic, your aggressiveness is a symptom of schizoid behaviour that should be treated as such:

I tell you this to protect you from yourself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_addiction)

Does your tribe naturally attract the gullible and people that try to match the maturity of 40 year old virgins? Or is it that time of the month for you?

Numz wrote:

I'm pretty sure who you call Xsyon carebear are actually going to keep this kind of games alive. After all, PKs tend to destroy a community, and Socializers and Crafters tend to keep the economy and player content alive and solid. UO and AC/DT were based on both type of players and that balance kept these games alives for years.

(even tho I'm a pk and I come from DF and I'm going to gank your crafter :laugh: )

When a game has too may carebears the devs usually do what that part of the player base wants and it ends up destroying the game much worse then any griefer could.

pid73
04-11-2010, 09:50 AM
Palo god wrote:



Does your tribe naturally attract the gullible and people that try to match the maturity of 40 year old virgins? Or is it that time of the month for you?


know what? I won't waste anymore of my time on responding you. with each post you show to be so stubborn, a clear sign of immaturity. i don't even

Palo god
04-11-2010, 10:07 AM
pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:



Does your tribe naturally attract the gullible and people that try to match the maturity of 40 year old virgins? Or is it that time of the month for you?


know what? I won't waste anymore of my time on responding you. with each post you show to be so stubborn, a clear sign of immaturity. i don't even

You seem lash out at anything with a pulse that goes against your opinion. Have you considered taking anger management classes?

pid73
04-11-2010, 10:43 AM
Palo god wrote:


Have you considered taking anger management classes?

old. read my posts before you reply lazy.

Palo god
04-11-2010, 10:52 AM
pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:


Have you considered taking anger management classes?

old. read my posts before you reply lazy.

So you've already taken steps to treat your condition? That's good, but it seems to not be working as well as you've hoped. I think you might need additional treatment. Perhaps a two gallon enema?

aliksteel
04-11-2010, 11:10 AM
Don't worry about it pid73, Palo god is known to be a troll at times, and yes this is one of them times.

pid73
04-11-2010, 11:12 AM
Palo god wrote:

pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:


Have you considered taking anger management classes?

old. read my posts before you reply lazy.

So you've already taken steps to treat your condition? That's good, but it seems to not be working as well as you've hoped. I think you might need additional treatment. Perhaps a two gallon enema?

"old" means you copied my post: I suggested you a recovery in a clinic first, and you copied it.

saying I need anger management is ridiculous, I'm very calm while you want to let you pre-puberty anger out through PK-ing.

This must be you: Palo god because Xsyon isn't FFA (http://www.break.com/index/angry_german_kid_with_subtitles.html) :laugh:

PALO GOD HOW FUNNY YOU ARE :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

and btw I'm on the constructive side and you were giving a negative image of yourself all the time especially when aggroing a girl without reason. i guess you are the type of dude who would hit a woman IRL.

excellent example aren't you ashamed? at least stop posting for a year or two...

also, the enema thing is the classic schoolkid joke but nobody laughs.

r0ss0
04-11-2010, 11:18 AM
You read my mind pid , I wish thinking of the german kid to!

I see a spartan face mixed in there to!

Palo god
04-11-2010, 12:16 PM
pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:

pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:


Have you considered taking anger management classes?

old. read my posts before you reply lazy.

So you've already taken steps to treat your condition? That's good, but it seems to not be working as well as you've hoped. I think you might need additional treatment. Perhaps a two gallon enema?

"old" means you copied my post: I suggested you a recovery in a clinic first, and you copied it.

saying I need anger management is ridiculous, I'm very calm while you want to let you pre-puberty anger out through PK-ing.

This must be you: Palo god because Xsyon isn't FFA (http://www.break.com/index/angry_german_kid_with_subtitles.html) :laugh:

PALO GOD HOW FUNNY YOU ARE :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

and btw I'm on the constructive side and you were giving a negative image of yourself all the time especially when aggroing a girl without reason. i guess you are the type of dude who would hit a woman IRL.

excellent example aren't you ashamed? at least stop posting for a year or two...

also, the enema thing is the classic schoolkid joke but nobody laughs.

It seems that your condition has worsened and that you’ve become delusional with rage and started to post videos of yourself. It’s ok pid, calm down and take deep breaths. You’re going to be ok.

Jadzia
04-11-2010, 01:32 PM
Palo god wrote:



Does your tribe naturally attract the gullible and people that try to match the maturity of 40 year old virgins? Or is it that time of the month for you?


Really, you have some serious problems with women. You are obviously scared of us, probably due to your very low self-confidence...this may cause a lot of problem later on in your life, so you should start to work on it. Somewhere you stated you were 19, but from your posts its clear you are a child...thats good, since this way there is more possibility for the improvement of your character.

pid73
04-11-2010, 01:56 PM
Palo god wrote:




It seems that your condition has worsened and that you’ve become delusional with rage and started to post videos of yourself. It’s ok pid, calm down and take deep breaths. You’re going to be ok.

it is clear you don't know how to reply. sorry bro, but you are not credible as a pvper. if i encounter you in-game with my crafter i will grant you 1 minute afk so that you are not too scared.

Palo god
04-11-2010, 02:10 PM
pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:




It seems that your condition has worsened and that you’ve become delusional with rage and started to post videos of yourself. It’s ok pid, calm down and take deep breaths. You’re going to be ok.

it is clear you don't know how to reply. sorry bro, but you are not credible as a pvper. if i encounter you in-game with my crafter i will grant you 1 minute afk so that you are not too scared.

So you’re planning to betray your tribe by being a pacifist to your enemies? I knew you were a traitor pid but I never thought you would come out of the closet so soon. Can you open the tribe gates for me and my underlings? I’ll be sure to give you 1.6% of all the loot we acquire.


Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:



Does your tribe naturally attract the gullible and people that try to match the maturity of 40 year old virgins? Or is it that time of the month for you?


Really, you have some serious problems with women. You are obviously scared of us, probably due to your very low self-confidence...this may cause a lot of problem later on in your life, so you should start to work on it. Somewhere you stated you were 19, but from your posts its clear you are a child...thats good, since this way there is more possibility for the improvement of your character.

I didn’t give you permission to speak.

Relandi
04-11-2010, 02:13 PM
You two are so cute.

Jadzia
04-11-2010, 02:26 PM
Palo god wrote:

pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:




It seems that your condition has worsened and that you’ve become delusional with rage and started to post videos of yourself. It’s ok pid, calm down and take deep breaths. You’re going to be ok.

it is clear you don't know how to reply. sorry bro, but you are not credible as a pvper. if i encounter you in-game with my crafter i will grant you 1 minute afk so that you are not too scared.

So you’re planning to betray your tribe by being a pacifist to your enemies? I knew you were a traitor pid but I never thought you would come out of the closet so soon. Can you open the tribe gates for me and my underlings? I’ll be sure to give you 1.6% of all the loot we acquire.


Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:



Does your tribe naturally attract the gullible and people that try to match the maturity of 40 year old virgins? Or is it that time of the month for you?


Really, you have some serious problems with women. You are obviously scared of us, probably due to your very low self-confidence...this may cause a lot of problem later on in your life, so you should start to work on it. Somewhere you stated you were 19, but from your posts its clear you are a child...thats good, since this way there is more possibility for the improvement of your character.

I didn’t give you permission to speak.

Why don't you try to get back on topic ? You are out of arguments, you were proved to be QQing so there is nothing more you can do only trolling ?

Palo god
04-11-2010, 02:31 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:




It seems that your condition has worsened and that you’ve become delusional with rage and started to post videos of yourself. It’s ok pid, calm down and take deep breaths. You’re going to be ok.

it is clear you don't know how to reply. sorry bro, but you are not credible as a pvper. if i encounter you in-game with my crafter i will grant you 1 minute afk so that you are not too scared.

So you’re planning to betray your tribe by being a pacifist to your enemies? I knew you were a traitor pid but I never thought you would come out of the closet so soon. Can you open the tribe gates for me and my underlings? I’ll be sure to give you 1.6% of all the loot we acquire.


Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:



Does your tribe naturally attract the gullible and people that try to match the maturity of 40 year old virgins? Or is it that time of the month for you?


Really, you have some serious problems with women. You are obviously scared of us, probably due to your very low self-confidence...this may cause a lot of problem later on in your life, so you should start to work on it. Somewhere you stated you were 19, but from your posts its clear you are a child...thats good, since this way there is more possibility for the improvement of your character.

I didn’t give you permission to speak.

Why don't you try to get back on topic ? You are out of arguments, you were proved to be QQing so there is nothing more you can do only trolling ?

Are you defying the superior authority of a male? I’m going to have to call the proper authorities to get you put in the camps for rehabilitation. You’re making your fellow grandmothers look bad.

Jadzia
04-11-2010, 02:42 PM
Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:




It seems that your condition has worsened and that you’ve become delusional with rage and started to post videos of yourself. It’s ok pid, calm down and take deep breaths. You’re going to be ok.

it is clear you don't know how to reply. sorry bro, but you are not credible as a pvper. if i encounter you in-game with my crafter i will grant you 1 minute afk so that you are not too scared.

So you’re planning to betray your tribe by being a pacifist to your enemies? I knew you were a traitor pid but I never thought you would come out of the closet so soon. Can you open the tribe gates for me and my underlings? I’ll be sure to give you 1.6% of all the loot we acquire.


Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:



Does your tribe naturally attract the gullible and people that try to match the maturity of 40 year old virgins? Or is it that time of the month for you?


Really, you have some serious problems with women. You are obviously scared of us, probably due to your very low self-confidence...this may cause a lot of problem later on in your life, so you should start to work on it. Somewhere you stated you were 19, but from your posts its clear you are a child...thats good, since this way there is more possibility for the improvement of your character.

I didn’t give you permission to speak.

Why don't you try to get back on topic ? You are out of arguments, you were proved to be QQing so there is nothing more you can do only trolling ?

Are you defying the superior authority of a male? I’m going to have to call the proper authorities to get you put in the camps for rehabilitation. You’re making your fellow grandmothers look bad.
Lol, poor you.

Palo god
04-11-2010, 02:44 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:

pid73 wrote:

Palo god wrote:




It seems that your condition has worsened and that you’ve become delusional with rage and started to post videos of yourself. It’s ok pid, calm down and take deep breaths. You’re going to be ok.

it is clear you don't know how to reply. sorry bro, but you are not credible as a pvper. if i encounter you in-game with my crafter i will grant you 1 minute afk so that you are not too scared.

So you’re planning to betray your tribe by being a pacifist to your enemies? I knew you were a traitor pid but I never thought you would come out of the closet so soon. Can you open the tribe gates for me and my underlings? I’ll be sure to give you 1.6% of all the loot we acquire.


Jadzia wrote:

Palo god wrote:



Does your tribe naturally attract the gullible and people that try to match the maturity of 40 year old virgins? Or is it that time of the month for you?


Really, you have some serious problems with women. You are obviously scared of us, probably due to your very low self-confidence...this may cause a lot of problem later on in your life, so you should start to work on it. Somewhere you stated you were 19, but from your posts its clear you are a child...thats good, since this way there is more possibility for the improvement of your character.

I didn’t give you permission to speak.

Why don't you try to get back on topic ? You are out of arguments, you were proved to be QQing so there is nothing more you can do only trolling ?

Are you defying the superior authority of a male? I’m going to have to call the proper authorities to get you put in the camps for rehabilitation. You’re making your fellow grandmothers look bad.
Lol, poor you.

You won't be laughing in the camps.

pid73
04-11-2010, 02:55 PM
Jadzia wrote:



Lol, poor you.

Don't waste your precious time on him, he doesn't even know when he is defeated and you cannot argue with a kid who doesn't know when to stop. Most probably his parents put him on a computer to get rid of him.

I won't even read this thread anymore, do the same Jadzia! Come, let's leave this delusional sexist alone...

stanleyxd
04-11-2010, 03:08 PM
palo god accidently a whole hopi tribe feelings!

Jadzia
04-11-2010, 03:21 PM
pid73 wrote:


Don't waste your precious time on him, he doesn't even know when he is defeated and you cannot argue with a kid who doesn't know when to stop. Most probably his parents put him on a computer to get rid of him.

I won't even read this thread anymore, do the same Jadzia! Come, let's leave this delusional sexist alone...

You are right, I'm ignoring his posts from now :) delusional sexist...this was good :lol:

Jadzia
04-11-2010, 03:23 PM
stanleyxd wrote:

palo god accidently a whole hopi tribe feelings!

Something is missing from your sentence...it doesn't make sense in this way

Ikisis
04-11-2010, 03:27 PM
Way off topic and pointless moved.

r0ss0
04-11-2010, 03:28 PM
You need to remove the Shadow image :)

Primavera
04-12-2010, 01:30 PM
I'm a crafter who prefers the mechanics of full FFA looting and very limited safe areas. I dont go looking for pvp and am not very good at it but I like the buzz of being in a dangerous environment and having to know when to run. We arent all carebears.

Ikisis
04-13-2010, 07:25 AM
Primavera wrote:

I'm a crafter who prefers the mechanics of full FFA looting and very limited safe areas. I dont go looking for pvp and am not very good at it but I like the buzz of being in a dangerous environment and having to know when to run. We arent all carebears.
Wanna be a Draper for Templar :-P , Templar Loves Crafter's cause we understand Crafting = Gear and resources to use from No armor No weapons NO GAME!!!!

Sarg
04-28-2010, 01:54 PM
Heya all, new carebear here, ... looking forward to ruining things (it's my specialty!)

celestial_fury
04-28-2010, 02:13 PM
HI Sarg

I like your sense of humor lmao!

Lardocrul
04-28-2010, 02:23 PM
Welcome Sarg.

No worry, you're not alone.

All carebears in Xsyon are able to bite.
http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020077.gif

Sarg
04-28-2010, 02:31 PM
Played Darkfall for a couple weeks, but didn't like that to be even an average crafter you needed to be a guild crafter thanks to the rare resource requirements. Been pretty much without a game since, because everything is crap.

This sounds promising. I've always wondered why no MMOs treated PK like real life ... you can do it, but no one does because the consequences are too strong.

Jadzia
04-28-2010, 02:58 PM
Sarg wrote:

Heya all, new carebear here, ... looking forward to ruining things (it's my specialty!)
Welcome, Sarg ! The more the merrier ;)

Klaa
05-20-2010, 01:45 AM
Personally never played Darkfall... ever. I had written it off as vaporware for ages previous to release. I am from another game, Wurm Online. The gameplay for DF, as described to me by another Wurmian, did not really impress me much as compared to Wurm.

I have played with many major Wurm pvpers who additionally do alot of crafting whether it be out of necessity or enjoyment. Course the nature of the game encourages such as everything is player-created/gathered. Its very possible to have pvpers who craft and craft well.

If it helps: Wurm's pvp is much akin to Ultima Online's (additionally its a similar open-ended skill system just instead of a hard approx 700 point cap, there is skill decay); though, there have been some changes for the more carebear-oriented.

Initially Wurm's geography was divided into two types of connected servers, which could be traveled to and from: Wild (heavy PvP, kingdom territory is won or lost) and Home (Carebear central, PvE). For a time PvP was enabled on the Home servers such that enemy kingdoms from other Home and Wild servers could invade (just with reduced fighting ability and could not spread one's kingdom).

The change caused such an uproar among Home players that the Devs ended up creating a fully seperate Freedom type server.

Niburu
02-04-2011, 06:32 PM
I'm pretty sure, all the crafters watched in horror as the Darkfallers came over as well.

They can't flee, we hunt them all


Played Darkfall for a couple weeks, but didn't like that to be even an average crafter you needed to be a guild crafter thanks to the rare resource requirements. Been pretty much without a game since, because everything is crap.

This sounds promising. I've always wondered why no MMOs treated PK like real life ... you can do it, but no one does because the consequences are too strong.

You tend to forget that in real life the land mass is owned by alot of "guilds" called countries. Those "guilds" have some sort of PK hunters(police) who watch out that everyone play within the guild rules. All this was created in 1000 of years. At the beginning of our civilsation it was more then normal to kill other weaker "guilds" or merge them into your own "guild"...also murdering was much more common because no one saw it or missed the "player" who died ( and didn't respaned :-( )

esudar
02-05-2011, 02:12 AM
tbh if this game is ruined by carebears i will buy it only to grief you

Proto
02-28-2011, 08:45 PM
tru, tru

Salvadore
03-02-2011, 06:48 AM
I hate to say it, but if the devs go strictly by amount of tears on the forums: Yes.

Its almost heartbreaking to see so many great ideas be presented to possibly the potentially best mmo sandbox to date and constantly having 5-10 carebears flood each idea with "NONONO i wanna sit in a safe place and craft all day without risk".

I hope the devs actually want to make a game that lasts, and don't do what Ultima Online, Shadowbane, Age of Conan, Darkfall, and pretty much every MMO that isn't a WoW clone did: Listen to the Carebears.

The ONLY game i've ever seen where they actually listened somewhat to the pvp community is darkfall...but when you wait months to years to change...well it dies. ;[

Marcus
03-02-2011, 08:54 AM
I hate to say it, but if the devs go strictly by amount of tears on the forums: Yes.

Its almost heartbreaking to see so many great ideas be presented to possibly the potentially best mmo sandbox to date and constantly having 5-10 carebears flood each idea with "NONONO i wanna sit in a safe place and craft all day without risk".

I hope the devs actually want to make a game that lasts, and don't do what Ultima Online, Shadowbane, Age of Conan, Darkfall, and pretty much every MMO that isn't a WoW clone did: Listen to the Carebears.

The ONLY game i've ever seen where they actually listened somewhat to the pvp community is darkfall...but when you wait months to years to change...well it dies. ;[

Just out of curiosity, why do you think it is that they "listen to the carebears"?

AlexTaldren
03-02-2011, 04:39 PM
Nah. The game will be fun and interesting regardless.

Armand
03-02-2011, 04:44 PM
Moving this out of the Flame Wars area, really?

Salvadore
03-02-2011, 06:50 PM
Just out of curiosity, why do you think it is that they "listen to the carebears"?

The ever destructive life sucking cycle that destroys MMO's:

Those who cry the loudest and hardest typically dictate the dev's fear of profit loss. Thus, the ones that are actually enjoying the game for what it is are rarely crying about it, whereas those who are angry for their losses are kicking/screaming "IM GONNA QUIT"...thus, the dev that wants to stay in the positive profit margin, says "better do what HE says, we're obviously here to make money...".

It is way too prevalent today. Very sad actually. Usually the ones that cry the most are never satisfied anyway, thus, counterproductive to the whole design. They are usually the ones that quit anyway even after they get their way due to boredom or a greener pasture to go cry about ;[ The pvp'ers usually enjoy it for what it is and only really leave for 2 reasons: They cant stand getting lied to or broken promises, or the next greener pasture with the hope they will actually have their ideas listened to (this time).

Ive yet to see a single MMO really cater to the pvp populace. Darkfall *kinda* did, but way too little too late ;[

*P.S. LOVE the avatar. Used to have that game back in the day!

Burnt
03-02-2011, 07:01 PM
Hey salv, If you don't mind I would like to say a few things directed at you.

I am probably someone you would label as a "carebear", because my focus is not pvp, but I do understand the pvp is a important part of this game. I don't agree with the broad statements you make, basically saying that if you don't pvp, you are counterproductive and crying about the game. From what I read in the forums though, it seems like the pvp'ers who came to this game want to force their ideas onto the game, and that is what people 'like me' disagree with. I am happy with whatever the dev's long term plan is, and crying is not a pastime :P

Just for a example, many pvp players made threads complaining about safe zones, that were planned well in advance by the dev for the game to develop. In my opinion, it seemed like pvp'ers wanted to force the developer to change his game-plan, and I personally, tried to explain why it made sense to have safe zones for now.

I could go on much longer, but I don't really feel like a discussion, just wanted to throw it out there.

Salvadore
03-02-2011, 07:26 PM
Hey salv, If you don't mind I would like to say a few things directed at you.

I am probably someone you would label as a "carebear", because my focus is not pvp, but I do understand the pvp is a important part of this game. I don't agree with the broad statements you make, basically saying that if you don't pvp, you are counterproductive and crying about the game. From what I read in the forums though, it seems like the pvp'ers who came to this game want to force their ideas onto the game, and that is what people 'like me' disagree with. I am happy with whatever the dev's long term plan is, and crying is not a pastime :P

Just for a example, many pvp players made threads complaining about safe zones, that were planned well in advance by the dev for the game to develop. In my opinion, it seemed like pvp'ers wanted to force the developer to change his game-plan, and I personally, tried to explain why it made sense to have safe zones for now.

I could go on much longer, but I don't really feel like a discussion, just wanted to throw it out there.

I wouldnt personally label you as a "carebear" because your focus is not pvp. Remember, Im going to be crafting it up right with ya before im going to even be able to consider pvp!

I've tried to make it realized that my whole idea and discussion base is centralized around balance. That is balance for all sides and each aspect, not favor one over the other. Nor would I state that "if you don't pvp, you are counterproductive and crying about the game." In retrospect, heavy crafters/builders are the heart of this game.

Opinions are different. Most that I've seen is the pvp-centric population starts to show up, throw out ideas, then have 5-10 people cry out in sheer fear against them. Trust me, the pvp crowd isnt asking for their own personal desires to be implemented in-game simply to ruin it...they are more pleading with the population/devs to realize how great the potential is HERE and how great this project can become. They are here because there is no real game out there that remotely "fits" into their form of an enjoyable game. The mere potential and promise that a few of their needs can be met by this project makes them incredibly optimistic.

Keep in mind also that a huge portion of the "pvpers" that post have already seen similar situations implemented and already failed by other mmos. They wouldnt be wasting their time even TRYING to help by stating what they are if they didnt desire this game to prosper. It has NOTHING to do with them ONLY trying to "gank" you or ruin your fun.

blake378
03-02-2011, 08:49 PM
it's actually quite the opposite i think the pkers ruin the game and all the crafters leave turning it into darkfall. so if you came from darkfall and are coming here to turn this game into that then why did you leave df in the first place? if you think the game is going to be 2 carebear go play darkfall just sayin.

sionide
03-02-2011, 09:50 PM
The ever destructive life sucking cycle that destroys MMO's:

Those who cry the loudest and hardest typically dictate the dev's fear of profit loss. Thus, the ones that are actually enjoying the game for what it is are rarely crying about it, whereas those who are angry for their losses are kicking/screaming "IM GONNA QUIT"...thus, the dev that wants to stay in the positive profit margin, says "better do what HE says, we're obviously here to make money...".

It is way too prevalent today. Very sad actually. Usually the ones that cry the most are never satisfied anyway, thus, counterproductive to the whole design. They are usually the ones that quit anyway even after they get their way due to boredom or a greener pasture to go cry about ;[ The pvp'ers usually enjoy it for what it is and only really leave for 2 reasons: They cant stand getting lied to or broken promises, or the next greener pasture with the hope they will actually have their ideas listened to (this time).

Ive yet to see a single MMO really cater to the pvp populace. Darkfall *kinda* did, but way too little too late ;[

*P.S. LOVE the avatar. Used to have that game back in the day!

Well let's be honest here. It's the people who are screaming for PvP that are QQing the loudest. So by your logic, the devs shouldn't listen to you guys.

Sure there was a few voice before, but it was relatively peaceful; however, in this past week it has really gotten bad.

And good job on Niburu for necro-ing a thread.

Escargot
03-02-2011, 10:29 PM
So true. In every game...every forum...the people crying the loudest and the longest are the pvp'ers...who can just never seem to get quite the sociopathic paradise they're looking for.

Proto
03-02-2011, 10:39 PM
So true. In every game...every forum...the people crying the loudest and the longest are the pvp'ers...who can just never seem to get quite the sociopathic paradise they're looking for.

Yeah and it's always the carebears making RL comparisons between people that like PVP and sociopaths who kill people IRL.

diaf.

Escargot
03-03-2011, 03:47 AM
Yeah and it's always the carebears making RL comparisons between people that like PVP and sociopaths who kill people IRL.

diaf.


You seem to have a child's understanding of the word "sociopath".

Marcus
03-03-2011, 03:58 AM
The ever destructive life sucking cycle that destroys MMO's:

Those who cry the loudest and hardest typically dictate the dev's fear of profit loss. Thus, the ones that are actually enjoying the game for what it is are rarely crying about it, whereas those who are angry for their losses are kicking/screaming "IM GONNA QUIT"...thus, the dev that wants to stay in the positive profit margin, says "better do what HE says, we're obviously here to make money...".

It is way too prevalent today. Very sad actually. Usually the ones that cry the most are never satisfied anyway, thus, counterproductive to the whole design. They are usually the ones that quit anyway even after they get their way due to boredom or a greener pasture to go cry about ;[ The pvp'ers usually enjoy it for what it is and only really leave for 2 reasons: They cant stand getting lied to or broken promises, or the next greener pasture with the hope they will actually have their ideas listened to (this time).

Ive yet to see a single MMO really cater to the pvp populace. Darkfall *kinda* did, but way too little too late ;[

*P.S. LOVE the avatar. Used to have that game back in the day!

I think people give way to much credit to forums for the way the game direction heads. Not to say it isn't part of it mind you.

Most of them (forums) are just filled with mis-information and/or ignorance, and people just trying to troll for the purpose of "forum PvP". According to most message boards (as an example), Trammel killed UO, whereas, the subs actually went up after it. Perhaps it killed it for "you"... but these games arent in business for "you", sorry to say.. That game changed because of bleeding subs moreso than forum whinning in my opinion.

I'm not going to pretend i know exactly what you personaly want from this game, but in my opinion, (as you said) the same 5-10 people go to any "carebear" thread and scream how the want to "pwn" the carbaerz, and how they can't wait to grief them, and all the rest... So maybe we call this one a wash?

Someone actually brought up in another thread about burning down peoples home, and your response was something along the lines... "I hope so, because tears would flowwwww"

See, the problem with that is, when tears flow, so do sub numbers, and i would think, that, would have a much bigger effect on the direction of a game, moreso than the 5-10 members of a message board crying out in shear fear of PvP. Please dont get me wrong, i love PvP, but there really needs to be some sort of happy medium, so both sides can co-exist, and as we have seen many times, its just really not that easy. I'm not saying destroying towns is a bad thing, or, i oppose it completely, i'm just wondering and hoping it can be done without much flowing....

P.S. This was my first avatar in an MMO, i take it wherever i go ;)

byrgar
03-03-2011, 04:10 AM
Will the PVPers ruin xsyon...

...with their naked griefing and ganking?


I’ve recently noticed a huge influx of PVPers coming into the forum community. If a large chunk of the player base gradually and eventually just becomes griefers that want to be PVPing griefers that just naked gank 24/7, will the xsyon team change the core game mechanics and the original image of the game to cater to these people? Or will they continue with their original game ideas regardless of what the PVPers say?

Fixed the OP.

Archangei
03-03-2011, 04:45 AM
http://podlogs.com/vrenth/files/2009/05/evil_care_bear_by_devinepliskin.jpg

Griefers will kill this game, you need a good balance of pvpers and carebears but pvpers does not include griefers.

Not having a safe zone for these carebears just call for griefing, why not add perma death to anyone go becomes evil?
At that point we can talk about removing the carebearzones

Kroom
03-03-2011, 05:19 AM
Yeah and it's always the carebears making RL comparisons between people that like PVP and sociopaths who kill people IRL.

Allow me to help you out: "Yeah and it's always the carebears making RL comparisons between people that like PVP and sadists who enjoy bring misery to people IRL."

Proto
03-03-2011, 06:37 AM
Allow me to help you out: "Yeah and it's always the carebears making RL comparisons between people that like PVP and sadists who enjoy bring misery to people IRL."

Ah thank you even better

we like PVP so we're uncivilized sadists!

Proto
03-03-2011, 06:38 AM
You seem to have a child's understanding of the word "sociopath".

Just speaking down to the crowd that I'm working with.

Hellrazor1981
03-03-2011, 07:22 AM
Lots of win in this thread.

Reguardless of playstyle this game will need population to have conflict.If the PvP'ers set out on a mission to ruin the "carebears" experiance then this game will lose a ton of pop just like DF did in the begining( yes I play DF , and still do .GSO ).This game needs people with every playstyle to make to more diverse and make reasons for confilct, not saying that greifers or PvPers shouldn't kill others or take it easy , just saying we should not make it our mission to be overwhelming ( PvPers clearly already have the advantage in combat)since I want people to kill in this world and dont want to have to run for hours just to find someone.

Ikisis
03-03-2011, 10:06 AM
This Thread makes me sick. God damn just go to Lowe's if you want to craft...


it's actually quite the opposite i think the pkers ruin the game and all the crafters leave turning it into darkfall. so if you came from darkfall and are coming here to turn this game into that then why did you leave df in the first place? if you think the game is going to be 2 carebear go play darkfall just sayin.

^ this kid makes me hate Hopi, trying to talk down to people of a different play style because he doesn't like it.

I dont have any idea what kinda world would have a Apocalypse and then No Violence... So after the World ended everyone became peaceful? So Will John Lennon be one of the Mist tribe leaders. Apocalypses mass destruction and devastation End's But all turn's to Lennon and that stupid song Imagine .

Redemp
03-03-2011, 10:11 AM
In humanities darkest hours, the most glourious of structures were built.



Then tore down, rebuilt, and tore down again.

NexAnima
03-03-2011, 10:15 AM
This Thread makes me sick. God damn just go to Lowe's if you want to craft...



^ this kid makes me hate Hopi, trying to talk down to people of a different play style because he doesn't like it.

I dont have any idea what kinda world would have a Apocalypse and then No Violence... So after the World ended everyone became peaceful? So Will John Lennon be one of the Mist tribe leaders. Apocalypses mass destruction and devastation End's But all turn's to Lennon and that stupid song Imagine .

Ironically it's the "hardcores" that talk down to people of a different playstyle because they don't like it. Hence the term "carebear", I have yet to read a paragraph where the words "carebear" and "balance" are used. But I see much more "carebears" talk about compromise.

Ikisis
03-03-2011, 10:31 AM
Ironically it's the "hardcores" that talk down to people of a different playstyle because they don't like it. Hence the term "carebear", I have yet to read a paragraph where the words "carebear" and "balance" are used. But I see much more "carebears" talk about compromise.

Um may want to reread what i said because i didnt say carebear in that one time....

Zenmaster13
03-03-2011, 10:35 AM
This Thread makes me sick. God damn just go to Lowe's if you want to craft...



^ this kid makes me hate Hopi, trying to talk down to people of a different play style because he doesn't like it.

I dont have any idea what kinda world would have a Apocalypse and then No Violence... So after the World ended everyone became peaceful? So Will John Lennon be one of the Mist tribe leaders. Apocalypses mass destruction and devastation End's But all turn's to Lennon and that stupid song Imagine .

Ever hear of the expression "The pot calling the kettle black". This is exactly what you are doing. You are the one talking down to people. Telling them to go to Lowes to craft. What a joke your lack of reasoning is. Crafting exists in game because it happens to be a game mechanic that millions of people enjoy.

Here is some news for your black and white delusional view of the world. PVP and crafting are not mutually exclusive. Wrap your head around that please.

Are you some kind of prophet? Your views on how a post apoc. would be are guesses at best. Think before you speak, and less people will discover how narrow-minded you are.

NexAnima
03-03-2011, 10:54 AM
Um may want to reread what i said because i didnt say carebear in that one time....

I never mentioned you, now did I? That quote I used was relevant to this thread as well as your response about the hopi tribe. This thread is about "carebears" ruining Xsyon, when it's the "carebears" trying to find balance.

r4NGe
03-03-2011, 11:45 AM
How is it even possible to grief in this game. You become a invisible, ethereal, unseeable GHOST. There are SAFEZONES to float to if you choose not to go into the light. I just don't get it.

NexAnima
03-03-2011, 12:01 PM
How is it even possible to grief in this game. You become a invisible, ethereal, unseeable GHOST. There are SAFEZONES to float to if you choose not to go into the light. I just don't get it.

There isn't safezones there is a safezone. But those are going to end eventually. Sure you can't be griefed if your dead, but normally one doesn't worry about that now do they. There are plenty of ways to grief. If you don't know how, then I guess it's not you playstyle so its not much of a concern.

Ikisis
03-03-2011, 12:02 PM
Ever hear of the expression "The pot calling the kettle black". This is exactly what you are doing. You are the one talking down to people. Telling them to go to Lowes to craft. What a joke your lack of reasoning is. Crafting exists in game because it happens to be a game mechanic that millions of people enjoy.

Here is some news for your black and white delusional view of the world. PVP and crafting are not mutually exclusive. Wrap your head around that please.

Are you some kind of prophet? Your views on how a post apoc. would be are guesses at best. Think before you speak, and less people will discover how narrow-minded you are.

Never said anything about not liking crafting i actually love it, Just people saying there is no room for pvp only craft is my point. (which was what that kid was saying 100% that he doesnt want pk's which means no pvper's a pk is a Player Killer.)

r4NGe
03-03-2011, 12:14 PM
There isn't safezones there is a safezone. But those are going to end eventually. Sure you can't be griefed if your dead, but normally one doesn't worry about that now do they. There are plenty of ways to grief. If you don't know how, then I guess it's not you playstyle so its not much of a concern.

Ok, name some griefing methods.

NexAnima
03-03-2011, 12:28 PM
Ok, name some griefing methods.



Playing for the sole purpose of ruining some one elses fun

r4NGe
03-03-2011, 12:58 PM
Playing for the sole purpose of ruining some one elses fun

So griefing is not determined by what I do, but how you feel about it. So the victim is kinda griefing themselves.

NexAnima
03-03-2011, 01:03 PM
So griefing is not determined by what I do, but how you feel about it. So the victim is kinda griefing themselves.

Other then participating in a trolling philosophical debate over semantics, I'm just going adieu...

r4NGe
03-03-2011, 01:12 PM
Other then participating in a trolling philosophical debate over semantics, I'm just going adieu...

I ruined your fun?

Kroom
03-03-2011, 06:23 PM
What’s the difference between cheaters and the skilled?

In the end, the two can share the same score/outcome/reward, right?

Do you think they have the same impact (positive or negative) on a games community?

I love PVP, multiplayer FPS games have been my staple of entertainment since 1998 (Half-Life). There’s a difference between a griefers and PVPers. Just like there’s a difference between accidents and falsification/lying… The difference is INTENT.

I am not pointing the finger at anyone specifically but it’s obvious some don’t care about balanced competition it’s just about kicking dirt in someone’s face.

Proto
03-03-2011, 09:37 PM
I ruined your fun?

He's one of those emo kids with painted fingernails. Don't mind him.

Andar
03-04-2011, 03:07 AM
The proper place for bullies (griefers) outside of the shoolyard is the boardroom of a major corporation.

Only failures in that competition turn to MMOs for consolation.

NexAnima
03-04-2011, 04:36 AM
The proper place for bullies (griefers) outside of the shoolyard is the boardroom of a major corporation.

Only failures in that competition turn to MMOs for consolation.

Fun fact #213418003

Characteristics of bullies and bully accomplices

Research indicates that adults who bully have personalities that are authoritarian, combined with a strong need to control or dominate. It has also been suggested that a prejudicial view of subordinates can be particular a risk factor.

Further studies have shown that envy and resentment may be motives for bullying. Research on the self-esteem of bullies has produced equivocal results.While some bullies are arrogant and narcissistic, others can use bullying as a tool to conceal shame or anxiety or to boost self esteem: by demeaning others, the abuser him/herself feels empowered.

Researchers have identified other risk factors such as depression and personality disorders, as well as quickness to anger and use of force, addiction to aggressive behaviors, mistaking others' actions as hostile, concern with preserving self image, and engaging in obsessive or rigid actions. A combination of these factors may also be cause of this behavior.

It is often suggested that bullying behavior has its origin in childhood. As a person who is inclined to act as a bully matures, his or her related behavior patterns will often also mature. Schoolyard pranks and 'rough-housing' may mature into more subtle, yet equally effective adult level activities such as administrative end-runs, well planned and orchestrated attempts at character assassination, or other less obvious, yet equally forceful forms of coercion.

"If aggressive behaviour is not challenged in childhood, there is a danger that it may become habitual. Indeed, there is research evidence, to indicate that bullying during childhood puts children at risk of criminal behaviour and domestic violence in adulthood."

Bullies may bully because they themselves have been the victim of bullying. There is also evidence that bullies have a much higher likelihood to be incarcerated in the future.

Salvadore
03-04-2011, 06:26 AM
I think people give way to much credit to forums for the way the game direction heads. Not to say it isn't part of it mind you.

Most of them (forums) are just filled with mis-information and/or ignorance, and people just trying to troll for the purpose of "forum PvP". According to most message boards (as an example), Trammel killed UO, whereas, the subs actually went up after it. Perhaps it killed it for "you"... but these games arent in business for "you", sorry to say.. That game changed because of bleeding subs moreso than forum whinning in my opinion.

I'm not going to pretend i know exactly what you personaly want from this game, but in my opinion, (as you said) the same 5-10 people go to any "carebear" thread and scream how the want to "pwn" the carbaerz, and how they can't wait to grief them, and all the rest... So maybe we call this one a wash?

Someone actually brought up in another thread about burning down peoples home, and your response was something along the lines... "I hope so, because tears would flowwwww"

See, the problem with that is, when tears flow, so do sub numbers, and i would think, that, would have a much bigger effect on the direction of a game, moreso than the 5-10 members of a message board crying out in shear fear of PvP. Please dont get me wrong, i love PvP, but there really needs to be some sort of happy medium, so both sides can co-exist, and as we have seen many times, its just really not that easy. I'm not saying destroying towns is a bad thing, or, i oppose it completely, i'm just wondering and hoping it can be done without much flowing....

P.S. This was my first avatar in an MMO, i take it wherever i go ;)

So then we can agree that the vast majority of MMO's are "profit driven"? Thus, whenever someone gets mad and quits, and asked why by the games exit survey, and say "so and so killed me, i lost this/that, and i didnt like this" - Leads to a forcefull change in the whole management of the MMO? That's the cycle I've constantly seen with just about ALL mmo's ive played. Of course they aren't in business for JUST ME, but normally the change is derived from the guy that quit and filled the exit survey out rather than the guy that caused it and DIDNT quit and is still in the game enjoying it!

Basically, they've already got the "cause" guy hooked, and assume he is staying. They cater to the "effect" guy that quit, and make changes to keep that type all without considering the change pissing off the first guy and HIM quitting ;]

I do hope it evolves into full out asset destruction and no safe zones. NOT just because tears will flowwww, but because it will FORCE game balance and ALL PLAYER interaction. That would be awesome in my eyes, rather than one side (either) being thoroughly catered to just to appease them.

People won't work together just for the fun of it...they have to be forced to via risk/reward. When you have something to lose, you are way less likely to be a "ganker" type and be much more likely to be a social type. I hate gankers as well, and see it as a complete game destroyer. Lets go as far as to say i loathe ganking. Forced cooperation between carebear/pvper has so much potential to make this game GREAT.

Jadzia
03-04-2011, 06:59 AM
So then we can agree that the vast majority of MMO's are "profit driven"? Thus, whenever someone gets mad and quits, and asked why by the games exit survey, and say "so and so killed me, i lost this/that, and i didnt like this" - Leads to a forcefull change in the whole management of the MMO? That's the cycle I've constantly seen with just about ALL mmo's ive played. Of course they aren't in business for JUST ME, but normally the change is derived from the guy that quit and filled the exit survey out rather than the guy that caused it and DIDNT quit and is still in the game enjoying it!

Basically, they've already got the "cause" guy hooked, and assume he is staying. They cater to the "effect" guy that quit, and make changes to keep that type all without considering the change pissing off the first guy and HIM quitting ;]


If a company was losing like 80% of their customers due to the 20% of the players who were staying I would understand if they considered to change the rules and piss the 20% in order to keep the 80%. Its their living anyway.

If it was like 50%-50% or something close to that, even 30-70, then starting 2 different servers would solve the problem. Everyone gets what they like so everyone stays.

Marcus
03-04-2011, 07:19 AM
So then we can agree that the vast majority of MMO's are "profit driven"? Thus, whenever someone gets mad and quits, and asked why by the games exit survey, and say "so and so killed me, i lost this/that, and i didnt like this" - Leads to a forcefull change in the whole management of the MMO? That's the cycle I've constantly seen with just about ALL mmo's ive played. Of course they aren't in business for JUST ME, but normally the change is derived from the guy that quit and filled the exit survey out rather than the guy that caused it and DIDNT quit and is still in the game enjoying it!

Basically, they've already got the "cause" guy hooked, and assume he is staying. They cater to the "effect" guy that quit, and make changes to keep that type all without considering the change pissing off the first guy and HIM quitting ;]

I do hope it evolves into full out asset destruction and no safe zones. NOT just because tears will flowwww, but because it will FORCE game balance and ALL PLAYER interaction. That would be awesome in my eyes, rather than one side (either) being thoroughly catered to just to appease them.

People won't work together just for the fun of it...they have to be forced to via risk/reward. When you have something to lose, you are way less likely to be a "ganker" type and be much more likely to be a social type. I hate gankers as well, and see it as a complete game destroyer. Lets go as far as to say i loathe ganking. Forced cooperation between carebear/pvper has so much potential to make this game GREAT.

As Jadzia said, yes, if your subs are "bleeding", and the effect guys are starting to outnumber your cause guys, then you might want to look into the details of your strategy. Anything else would be foolish, as we agree, these things are profit driven. By the same token, if your taking a very small percent of your exit surveys, and making large changes from that, well, thats just as foolish...

I also agree with your last comment, and I think i have said it here more times than i can remember, I hope these guys can find a balance between the "carebears/pvpers". It would make a truely fantastic game.

Andar
03-04-2011, 08:52 AM
If a company was losing like 80% of their customers due to the 20% of the players who were staying I would understand if they considered to change the rules and piss the 20% in order to keep the 80%. Its their living anyway.

If it was like 50%-50% or something close to that, even 30-70, then starting 2 different servers would solve the problem. Everyone gets what they like so everyone stays.

For example: in the most recent poll I saw roughly 75% want safe zones. I suppose the question of PvE/PvP balance is at least partly answered for now.

boomer0901
03-04-2011, 09:29 AM
Fun fact #213418003

Characteristics of bullies and bully accomplices

Research indicates that adults who bully have personalities that are authoritarian, combined with a strong need to control or dominate. It has also been suggested that a prejudicial view of subordinates can be particular a risk factor.

Further studies have shown that envy and resentment may be motives for bullying. Research on the self-esteem of bullies has produced equivocal results.While some bullies are arrogant and narcissistic, others can use bullying as a tool to conceal shame or anxiety or to boost self esteem: by demeaning others, the abuser him/herself feels empowered.

Researchers have identified other risk factors such as depression and personality disorders, as well as quickness to anger and use of force, addiction to aggressive behaviors, mistaking others' actions as hostile, concern with preserving self image, and engaging in obsessive or rigid actions. A combination of these factors may also be cause of this behavior.

It is often suggested that bullying behavior has its origin in childhood. As a person who is inclined to act as a bully matures, his or her related behavior patterns will often also mature. Schoolyard pranks and 'rough-housing' may mature into more subtle, yet equally effective adult level activities such as administrative end-runs, well planned and orchestrated attempts at character assassination, or other less obvious, yet equally forceful forms of coercion.

"If aggressive behaviour is not challenged in childhood, there is a danger that it may become habitual. Indeed, there is research evidence, to indicate that bullying during childhood puts children at risk of criminal behaviour and domestic violence in adulthood."

Bullies may bully because they themselves have been the victim of bullying. There is also evidence that bullies have a much higher likelihood to be incarcerated in the future.

Kind of sums up the word troll doesn't it, yeah thats one reason I don't sweat the trolls griefers all that much, in real life they are a bunch of cowards.

I'm suprised more case studies haven't been done on this kind of behavior directly relating to video games and abusive behavior. I would love to do a case study on this, but getting one of the d-bag/troll/griefer to sit still long enough without their ADD meds not kicking in or the hardest part fitting their ego on a piece of paper.

Monfols
03-04-2011, 10:22 AM
Why is this not in the flame wars place?
This only makes people want to flame even more...

r4NGe
03-04-2011, 10:45 AM
As Jadzia said, yes, if your subs are "bleeding", and the effect guys are starting to outnumber your cause guys, then you might want to look into the details of your strategy. Anything else would be foolish, as we agree, these things are profit driven. By the same token, if your taking a very small percent of your exit surveys, and making large changes from that, well, thats just as foolish...

I also agree with your last comment, and I think i have said it here more times than i can remember, I hope these guys can find a balance between the "carebears/pvpers". It would make a truely fantastic game.


They should make all games based only on profit. Also, when I scavenge I want to hear a casino dingaling noise. OOOH, those get my blood pumpin!

Salvadore
03-05-2011, 12:39 PM
For example: in the most recent poll I saw roughly 75% want safe zones. I suppose the question of PvE/PvP balance is at least partly answered for now.

If that is actually the case, then so be it.

However, I'm waiting to see the threads start popping up everywhere about people exploiting safezones, lag caused by afk'ers sitting dormant macroing, and rarely finding anyone in game that is not crafting or in the process of aquiring resources for crafting. Another thread has all the info about it, cant remember which one. It does almost sound like people are acting in their own personal interests to get started in game rather than thinking "down the road" after everyone is established.

tnok85
03-06-2011, 01:42 PM
Just started but I thought I'd throw in my two cents...

First, a completely FFA PvP game with no safe zones (regardless of consequences for PvP) will turn away a *LOT* of people. I logged in for the first time, ran around for a little bit, got used to the controls, then headed out to find some trees to chop. After I gather some stuff, some guy shows up wearing a really dumb looking outfit and kills me. Loots everything except my "special weapon" (which I'm assuming is either character bound, or he was cutting me a break).

Frustrating? Yeah. I'm not turned off from the game by it, but many will be. That's alright - this sort of game appeals to a specific audience.

I think that *zero* safety is as much of a problem as *complete* unbreakable safe zones. I like the idea of a tribe spot being a safe zone, but it shouldn't be a permanent invulnerability. It should protect you from the roaming griefer for sure - but you shouldn't be able to plop down a totem by yourself and taunt a tribe of 50 people with no consequences.

I think a simple solution is siege mechanics - as in Shadowbane - to break the 'protection' on the tribe's totem, and even capturing it. Not exactly the same as SB, but similar. It would prevent permanent immunity, particularly in tribal wars, but it wouldn't give individual griefers (or small groups) free reign over the game.


Back on an individual level - the protection system may not be realistic, but the fact that a griefer can kill a few people with no *real* consequences (since he's already decided to be red) is just as unrealistic. You've got to give a little and take a little.

maelwydd
03-06-2011, 01:51 PM
You've got to give a little and take a little.

This is in my opinion always the problem. People who want a completely FFA environment will not understand the need, for many reasons outside their own personal desires, for there to be any safe zones. Most people understand why these things are investigated, explored and used, it is just a minority of completely selfish people who are unwilling to compromise even a little for the betterment of the game and ultimately the games community.