Scavenging Feedback after patch July 8

[Larsa]

Scavenging skill 100, perception is 70. All scavenging done on a junk pile in zone 777. Junk pile is not claimed, i.e. outside of all tribe land.

1: 45 HQ quarters
2: 4 VHQ leather scraps
3: 1 HQ stainless short metal pole
4: (Nothing)
5: 3 VHQ iron long metal boards (fully encumbered with this find)
6: (Nothing)
7: 4 HQ medium plastic poles
8: (Nothing)
9: (Nothing)
10: 5 HQ stainless short metal boards (fully encumbered again)
11: (Nothing)
12: 4 MQ aluminum small metal sheets
13: 3 VHQ steel long metal handles (encumbered)
14: 1 VHQ steel wedge
15: 1 HQ iron large metal sheet
16: (Nothing)
17: (Nothing)
18: (Nothing)
19: 1 HQ bronze long metal handle (encumbered)
20: 58 HQ bronze screws
21: (Nothing)
22: 44 HQ iron screws
23: (Nothing)
24: (Nothing)
25: 2 HQ chinchilla fur scraps
26: (Nothing)
27: (Nothing)
28: 1 HQ junk plastic
29: 61 VHQ steel nails
30: 3 VHQ steel medium metal handle
31: (Nothing)
32: 5 VHQ aluminum spikes
33: (Nothing)
34: 6 VHQ short metal posts (fully encumbered)
35: (Nothing)
36: (Nothing)
37: (Nothing)
38: (Nothing)
39: 1 VHQ mink fur
40: 6 HQ large plastic blocks
41: 1 VHQ mink fur
42: 1 VHQ found leather
43: 1 HQ found leather
44: 9 VHQ black hemp cloth scraps
45: (Nothing)
46: 4 MQ western tanager feathers
47: 5 VHQ lambskin scraps
48: (Nothing)
49: (Nothing)
50: 6 VHQ grey nealon cloth fabric

I'm curious to see what others are finding. My inital findings:
- Amount of quarters, screws, nails is too high, would suggest to cut them down by 75%.
- Metal boards, spikes, handles are too heavy. Even one find can put you into full encumberance.
- 22 out of 50 find nothing. I'd say that 40 nothings out of 50 attempts would be fine.

[meissner61]

wow thats a pretty detailed log - good job

[thurgond]

I'm getting lots of metal/plastic boards/poles/studs/posts/sheets. Maybe one in every 10 scavenges vs. 1 in 100 prior to this patch. About to fill up the bins on my tribe's junk piles. These are mostly so heavy that it is hard to shlep them back to the storage area. I recommend putting boards/poles/studs/posts as uncommon but not rare results in metal/plastic sorting. Make sheets fairly common results from metal/plastic sorting.

I'm finding lots of metal handles and metal blocks now. I haven't found any old saws, knife blades, bats or other weapon parts.

There is still too much leather, but now I'm finding stuff other than found and patchwork regularly--suede, micro suede, mink, lambskin, patent.

I did find one rubber scrap and 5 zippers and a few feathers, so these are back in the tables but not nearly as common as they used to be.

Ravelli

[Tesla]

Similar results after several attempts in diffrerent zones. At 100 scav, getting metal and plastic handles and and posts, etc. Some nails, screws, currency, and coin. However, NO recipes!

[NorCalGooey]

Thank you for this list. I will make one of my own and add it to this thread.

[MrDDT]

No recipes. Way to rare now.

[thurgond]

One change that seems to be the same for the last two patches is that the colors of scavenged cloth are restricted.

For sure, I haven't found cerulean, brown, violet, fandango, and orange. I also don't think I found any green or black.

Lots of new or previously rare cloth types, but in fewer colors.

Ravelli

[VeryWiiTee]

I can say that orange is out there, I found some this morning.

Though the new idea about letting uncommon items be right outside your tribe area.. I don't like. It makes it WAY to easy. They should scale the chance of uncommon as they scale rare but not as hard as rare of course.

[MrDDT]

One change that seems to be the same for the last two patches is that the colors of scavenged cloth are restricted.

For sure, I haven't found cerulean, brown, violet, fandango, and orange. I also don't think I found any green or black.

Lots of new or previously rare cloth types, but in fewer colors.

Ravelli



Try changing areas. Also I used another toon and found it. So I know its out there, just dunno whats causing it the not show up for one of my toons.

[fatboy21007]

scav is fine atm but needs more varieties. and recipes dont exist atm or atleast seem that way. i say add the old scav system back was nothin wrong with it to begin with.

[MrDDT]

I like the new scav system, I just think it needs major balancing.

I still have yet to figure out what item my zone gives, what are rares, and what the heck these bonuses really do on these items.

Also what happened to recipes?


Areas should have major bonus to a few items.
Like say Tallac has lots of good poles, plastic, metal, wood. Plus maybe posts also, again plastic, metal, wood.
Then South would have lots of good plates. So you have large, small, medium. Then all the different types that goes with it. So like gold, steel, chrome etc. Now gold plates of any type would be more rare than steel, and chrome would be even more rare than gold. But you still would have lots of plates.
Both areas would yield all the other resources however, you would get say plates in South 1 out of 10, while in Tallac you would get posts 1 out of 10.

You could even to ranges. So maybe South has Plates 3 out of 10, and has screws 1 out of 10, posts/poles would be 1 out of 200 and bolts 1 out of 20. While Tallac would have Post/poles 1 out of 10, and have bolts 1 out of 10, but have plates 1 out of 20, and screws 1 out of 20.
All the rest would be basic scav.

So each zone would have 2 items that are say + 200%, and + 75% while everything else was normal. Then you could also have some items which are in every area, without changing. Like say recipes. You can find a recipe = chance in all areas. There is no area with a bonus to finding a recipe.


Now, each area would find gold more common than another, or titanium more common than that next. But the basic item would be more common. So if you wanted titanium screws, you would goto the place with +200% to screws, and get titanium screws by default 200% more than somewhere else because you are finding 200% more screws.

[Larsa]

I find that the purpose of the scavenging action (compared to the pulling and sorting junk action) isn't yet well defined. This is further complicated because all actions (pulling/sorting and scavenging) use the same skill modifier (called scavenging again).

If I were to design I first would state the purpose for these action. In my book these should be:
Pulling - collecting bundles of junk from junk piles.
Sorting - sorting junk bundles into reasonably large amounts of common goods.
Scavenging - finding small amounts of uncommon and rare goods on junk piles and in the wild.

The current system does not clearly define purposes: scavenging gives us large amounts of common goods, something that should be done through pulling/sorting. And pulling/sorting gives us small amounts of uncommon goods (zippers, metal buckles) that should be got through scavenging.

Once we have the purpose of the actions defined we can then setup regional and local differences. That would mean that the chance to sort/scavenge a particular item (or rather class of items) is modifed in respect to the location. Possible modifiers could be:
- distance from water
- distance from lake
- north/south/east/west
- altitude
- distance from nearest junk pile
- distance from nearest totem
- type of ground (grass, branches, granite, sand, street, etc.)

[AndyI]

I think we need to be careful saying people are getting too much success with scav when you're skill 100. Can everyone please also consider people with lower skills when posting suggestions. We need balance not people saying it's too good because they are skill 100 when it's not nearly as good if you're not. Think about everyone.

Clearly 100 scav should be much much more successful than 20 or 30 and get much better items and in better quantities. The issues are one of balance. At lower skills levels you mostly get junk. The gap between 90 and 94 is also quite pronounced. What is clear is that people are not getting blades, saw blades etc. and no recipes either although dez said the other day that GuideRaguel was working on the recipes loot table so not sure if that means they are not dropping yet as per DDT's post.

We need a few peeps at lower skills levels to post their experiences so it can be balanced properly not just people who have a very high or max scav skill.

fwiw, I had more success at lvl 90 with the previous system than this one but this one can be balanced better (with proper feedback) than the previous system could as it's more detailed and flexible.

Larsa, I concur, we do not know enough about the new system to decide how far we need to be from any totem or anything else for that matter so it's pretty tough (esp. as most if not all scrap heaps have totems close by) to know what we should be getting and thus decide on balance.

At lvl 94, on a scrap heap, not on a totems land, some totems near by (about 200m), it's 50/50, lvl 90 was much lower. (This was a good run too, normally feels like the success rate is lower than this) If I had done 25 only, the success rate would have been much lower. I agree some things are dropping too often and in too large quantities but that said, even before the change of system, I would sometimes get over 100 nails or screws so this system I'd say on balance is less rewarding than the previous one. Off a scrap heap, the success rate is about 1 in 20 for me so much lower. I'll do that next in the middle of nowhere.

1.) 2 Bronze M Metal Board, HQ
2.) 116 Steel rivets, HQ
3.) 1 Found Leather, HQ
4.) Nothing
5.) Nothing
6.) Nothing
7.) 1 Steel Wedge, VHQ
8.) Nothing
9.) Nothing
10.) Nothing
11.) Nothing
12.) Nothing
13.) 1 Patchwork Leather, HQ
14.) 5 S Platic sheet, VHQ
15.) Nothing
16.) Nothing
17.) 27 Iron Bolts, M
18.) 1 Patchwork Leather, VHQ
19.) Nothing
20.) 1 PLeather, VHQ
21.) Nothing
22.) Nothing
23.) Nothing
24.) 42 buttons, M
25.) Nothing
26.) 2 Bronze Long Metal Handles, HQ
27.) Nothing
28.) 1 junk Plastic, HQ
29.) 32 Dollar bills, VHQ
30.) 4 S Platic sheet, HQ
31.) 1 Found Leather, HQ
32.) Nothing
33.) Nothing
34.) 53 Steel bolts, M
35.) Nothing
36.) 2 white linen cloth fabric, VHQ
37.) 65 bottlecaps, HQ
38.) 141 stainless screws, VHQ
39.) 5 S Platic sheet, VHQ
40.) 71 dollar bills, VHQ
41.) Nothing
42.) 4 Grey Acrylic cloth fabrics, HQ
43.) 2 White Linen Cloth Scraps, VHQ
44.) Nothing
45.) 1 Alum Large metal Sheet, HQ
46.) 51 dollar bills, VHQ
47.) Nothing
48.) Nothing
49.) Nothing
50.) Nothing

[MrDDT]

My problem with the whole scav thing is that as you level up it pays off way to much.

See not only at 100 scav do I find stuff more often, but its ALL of the best QL (VHQ or Master).

I believe they should change the system.

ANYONE should be able to get junk QL to master QL. However, if you are low skill you have a very very very very low chance at master QL items.

Scav tables IMO should work like I laid out. Pretty much, same as before ONLY changing how common some of the items are in areas. Meaning, you dont lower the chance of something you only increase the chance of 2 types of items. This will be default LOWER the chance of other things.

If I make something 5x more common, by default that will lower EVERYTHING.
Example.
Say before you had 3 items. All 33.3% chance each to find. *Item A, B, and C*. So out of 100 scavs you will find each one 33 times, assuming 100% scav rate of something.

Now say you change it so that item A is 5x more likely to find it. That means item A you will find 72% of the time, and B, C you will find 14% of the time each. As you can see thats with just 3 items. Just think if there was 200 items. Now I understand some items have different ratios and this would be a little harder to work out the math, but it shouldnt take long IF you have an idea of how rare items should be basically.


Next is the fact that higher scav should ONLY effect the chance to find an item. ALL scav levels should get junk to master QL. Just higher scav should allow a higher chance at master. So instead of 50% of the time at 100 scav getting master, it should cap out around like 5 or 10% of the time.

Anyways I could keep going, but its just a waste of time. They will fix it I guess over time.

100 scav right now is the most important skill in the game for ANY player, combat, crafter, or gatherer. Heck even a explorer would do well with the radius from same totems having an effect.

[AndyI]

But the scav system has never worked that way with this new system or the one before. As you skill up, the quality improves (we can still get moderate and HQ and above not only VHQ and M as you can see from my list) and this is the same with logging, woodcraft and every other skill.

The skill also gives you a higher chance of finding rare items. The % chance of finding something and the quality are two completely different aspects of the system. Now if you don't like the system then that's fine but that's not the same as the issue about % chance of finding rares and distance from totem etc. which is what has changed with the new system.

[MrDDT]

But the scav system has never worked that way with this new system or the one before. As you skill up, the quality improves (we can still get moderate and HQ and above not only VHQ and M as you can see from my list) and this is the same with logging, woodcraft and every other skill.

The skill also gives you a higher chance of finding rare items. The % chance of finding something and the quality are two completely different aspects of the system. Now if you don't like the system then that's fine but that's not the same as the issue about % chance of finding rares and distance from totem etc. which is what has changed with the new system.


You are right, I will keep that to another thread.

Just FYI I dont think the chance to find a rare is higher for a low skill vs high skill. Its just that high skill = more finds thus its chances are higher.

Meaning, say you scav 1000 times, at 5 skill. You will only get like 100 items. But if you scav at 100 skill you get like 800 items. So it seems like you have a higher chance to get a rare on higher level, but really its the same base chance just that because you are scav more items you get them more.

It would be like saying, you scav 800 times, while I scav 100 times. You have 700 more chances to get a rare.

[AndyI]

Scav results in middle of scrub land at least 400-500 from a totem that I know of.

1.) Nothing
2.) Nothing
3.) Nothing
4.) Nothing
5.) Nothing
6.) 2 Iron Metal Board, VHQ - dc'd on zone cross, slowed due to weight
7.) Nothing
8.) Nothing
9.) Nothing
10.) Nothing
11.) Nothing
12.) Nothing
13.) Nothing
14.) Nothing
15.) Nothing
16.) Nothing
17.) Nothing
18.) Nothing
19.) Nothing
20.) Nothing
21.) Nothing
22.) Nothing
23.) Nothing
24.) Nothing
25.) Nothing
26.) Nothing
27.) Nothing
28.) Nothing
29.) 71 stainless screws, VHQ
30.) 69 plastic buttons, VHQ
31.) Nothing
32.) Nothing
33.) Nothing
34.) Nothing
35.) Nothing

Added after 6 minutes:


You are right, I will keep that to another thread.

Just FYI I dont think the chance to find a rare is higher for a low skill vs high skill. Its just that high skill = more finds thus its chances are higher.



Which would be wrong imo. In RL being better at say foraging would result in finding not only more items but higher chance of obscure / rare items as you would be better at recognising them and the habitats the plants grown in.
With a lower skill it should then come down to 'luck' hence should be weighted more with a higher skill otherwise, why learn scav all the way up to 100. But we'll have to see how it pans out.

[MrDDT]

100 Scav, 95 Perception. About 50m to 100m from my totem.


1.) 0
2.) 3x Alum Med Metal Sheets - VHQ
3.) 0
4.) 0
5.) 0
6.) 114x Gold Screws - M
7.) 4x Short Metal Sheets - VHQ
8.) 0
9.) 0
10.) 43x Steel Screws - H
11.) 0
12.) 0
13.) 0
14.) 67x Iron Nails - M
15.) 51x Bottle Caps - VHQ
16.) 1x Junk Plastic - M
17.) 0
18.) 6x Black Cotton Cloth Fabric - M
19.) 92x Buttons - H
20.) 0
21.) 0
22.) 60x Iron Nails - VHQ
23.) 0
24.) 1x Rubber Strap - VHQ
25.) 1x Alum Lrg Metal Sheet - VHQ
26.) 3x Iron Small Metal Block - M
27.) 79x Gold Screws - M
28.) 4x Stainless Sm Metal Sheet - VHQ
29.) 0
30.) 61x Iron Rivets - VHQ
31.) 36x Quarters - VHQ
32.) 0
33.) 0
34.) 82x Bronze Screws - VHQ
35.) 6x Med Plastic Sheets - VHQ
36.) 0
37.) 0
38.) 47x Bottle Caps - VHQ
39.) 0
40.) 5x Steel Long Metal Boards - M
41.) 0
42.) 1x Lambskin - M
43.) 5x Steel Short Metal Boards - VHQ
44.) 5x Med Plastic Sheets - M
45.) 5x Med Plastic Poles - M
46.) 1x Freeway Rail - VHQ
47.) Nothing
48.) Nothing
49.) 5x Steel Small Metal Handle - M
50.) Nothing

[NorCalGooey]

1x Freeway Rail?

Hold up Xsyon, we don't even have cars yet, how can we be getting ready to construct freeways??? Lmao at freeway rail

[fatboy21007]

===========================

[Larsa]

... I still have yet to figure out what item my zone gives ...I haven't yet seen any gold in zone 777 and you seem to get quite some amount of it, maybe type of metal is regional?


... See not only at 100 scav do I find stuff more often, but its ALL of the best QL (VHQ or Master). ...This is strange, I have scavenging 100 too and find HQ, VHQ and (some) Master items.

Okay, my perception is lower than yours (70), not sure whether perception has influence on quality of items.

Added after 7 minutes:


my results in all zones areas except 600's is the same as andy1's i have 99 scav. 12 perception. ive yet to see a gold/trit/chrome/silver drop let alone recipe from this new system and i haver over 50 hours of scavenging in. ...I'd reckon your results show that perception might be almost as important as the scavenging skill itself. MrDDT has 95 perception, Vito has 70, you have 12. That could explain why you don't see "rare" metals.

Granted, I've not found any recipe since the patch too.


... In RL being better at say foraging would result in finding not only more items but higher chance of obscure / rare items as you would be better at recognising them and the habitats the plants grown in. ...Foraging in Xsyon seems to be different from scavenging (or not yet implemented correctly). I've got 100 skill in Foraging too and every single berry/plant/herb I find since I got skill 100 is of "supreme" quality.

[MrDDT]

I do find HQ sometimes, 2 out of 27, but master is way more common for me than H, and VHQ is likely the most common its hard to know sometimes.

Also I have found gold in your area before, so pretty sure its not about type of metal. I think it is just how common some things are. Like your area might have more common drops of bones, while mine is saw blades.

[TheSlyRoogon]

I am 74 scav and 90 perc and in 6 scavs I found a VHQ pattern and a low QL recipe shortly after that my zone was 740

[Larsa]

Again, scavenging skill 100, perception 70. On a junkpile in zone 777, junkpile is outside of any tribeland.

1: (Nothing)
2: 3 VHQ Bronze small metal handle
3: 5 HQ Iron short metal boards
4: (Nothing)
5: 2 VHQ Steel small metal handle
6: (Nothing)
7: (Nothing)
8: 1 MQ Aluminum large metal sheet
9: (Nothing)
10: (Nothing)
11: 4 HQ Brass small metal sheet
12: 1 VHQ Aluminum short metal board
13: (Nothing)
14: (Nothing)
15: (Nothing)
16: (Nothing)
17: 45 HQ Pennies
18: (Nothing)
19: 1 HQ Steel small plate
20: (Nothing)
21: (Nothing)
22: 14 Pennies
23: 1 MQ Found leather
24: 3 HQ Steel medium metal board
25: (Nothing)
26: (Nothing)
27: (Nothing)
28: (Nothing)
29: (Nothing)
30: 54 HQ Plastic buttons
31: (Nothing)
32: (Nothing)
33: (Nothing)
34: 5 MQ Medium plastic sheet
35: 2 VHQ Black cotton cloth fabric
36: (Nothing)
37: (Nothing)
38: 1 VHQ Steel large metal sheet
39: (Nothing)
40: 2 VHQ Steel short metal board
41: 1 MQ Patent leather
42: (Nothing)
43: (Nothing)
44: 58 HQ Beer tabs
45: (Nothing)
46: 63 HQ Steel bolts
47: 6 HQ Aluminum medium metal board
48: (Nothing)
49: 3 VHQ short metal post
50: (Nothing)

[Larsa]

Same junk pile as yesterday. Scavenging skill 100, perception 70. :)

1: (Nothing)
2: 4 MQ steel zippers
3: 37 VHQ Iron nails
4: (Nothing)
5: (Nothing)
6: (Nothing)
7: 5 VHQ Steel long metal boards (fully encumbered)
8: 2 VHQ Western tanager feathers
9: (Nothing)
10: 6 VHQ Long plastic boards
11: (Nothing)
12: (Nothing)
13: (Nothing)
14: 4 HQ Short plastic poles
15: 39 VHQ Pennies
16: 1 HQ Short metal post
17: (Nothing)
18: (Nothing)
19: (Nothing)
20: 2 VHQ Stainless medium metal stud
21: (Nothing)
22: (Nothing)
23: 5 HQ Medium plastic sheets
24: (Nothing)
25: 4 HQ Small plastic sheets
26: 4 HQ Found leather scraps
27: (Nothing) (Your stats have increased, gained +1 to perception, 71 now)
28: (Nothing)
29: 48 MQ Plastic buttons
30: (Nothing)
31: 43 VHQ Quarters
32: (Nothing)
33: 5 VHQ Patent leather scraps
34: 55 Quarters
35: 76 VHQ Dollar bills
36: 3 VHQ Iron long metal boards (fully encumbered)
37: 39 HQ Bottle caps
38: (Nothing)
39: 2 HQ Steel short metal boards
40: 1 VHQ Junk plastic
41: 1 MQ Iron long metal board
42: (Nothing)
43: (Nothing)
44: (Nothing)
45: 1 MQ Patent leather
46: 6 VHQ Medium plastic blocks
47: 1 Patent leather
48: 20 HQ Aluminum screws
49: 79 VHQ Steel nails
50: (Nothing)

[Riftmaster]

1x Freeway Rail?

Hold up Xsyon, we don't even have cars yet, how can we be getting ready to construct freeways??? Lmao at freeway railI scavenged one of those last night...still wondering wth it might be for...:confused:

I'm at about 50 scav and 65 perception, I think.

[Willowhawk]

I scavenged one of those last night...still wondering wth it might be for...:confused:

I'm at about 50 scav and 65 perception, I think.

I'm sure this will be a disappointment, but they are used in the scrapper freeway wall recipe. :)

[Antemalagon]

the rail could potentially be for a scavenger's barricade of some sort ? .. *edit* oh duh lol yeah what willow said

[MrDDT]

I'm sure this will be a disappointment, but they are used in the scrapper freeway wall recipe. :)


Have you built this wall? Because its not used in that recipe.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e107/MrDDT/Xsyon/Screenshot_2012613_4_4_5.jpg

[Willowhawk]

No you're right, I thought I remembered it used in that recipe. Sorry for the miss information.

[Riftmaster]

I'm sure this will be a disappointment, but they are used in the scrapper freeway wall recipe. :)


Have you built this wall? Because its not used in that recipe.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e107/MrDDT/Xsyon/Screenshot_2012613_4_4_5.jpg


No you're right, I thought I remembered it used in that recipe. Sorry for the miss information.
Interesting...

The odd thing is that the "freeway rail" icon looks like a metal block with diagonal yellow and black alternating stripes painted on one side.

Which is nothing like any freeway rails I'VE ever seen. But then object icons aren't necessarily accurate to the object, in Xsyon or any other game.

Well, I plan on keeping the thing in case a use pops up.