Wouldn't the game be better with a different PvE?

[treyu]

Today I tried Entropia Universe for the first time. I know, it is a totally diferent game than Xsyon, I am not comparing both. I have also played Darkfall for 2 years.

So after playing Entropia for some hours, I thought that Xsyon REALLY lacked incentives for PvE, and that creates a lack of incentives for the rest of the content of the game: crafting, levelling skills, building, etc. In Entropia, for example, killing mobs (and there are a lot of different mobs, the same happens in Darkfall) is the way for getting mats and other resources (a part from mining, which can be similar to harvesting and scavenging here in Xsyon or logging and mining in Darkfall) that once obtained, can be sold to NPCs or players for in game currency.

So basically, you hunt mobs (the better your skills, the harder mobs you can hunt), you get mats and resources for carfting or for selling, you sell them, you get money and you can equip yourself better, craft better things, invest on some expensive item etc etc. That promotes PvP too (people can decide not to hunt in PvE but hunt players, etc). Now, in Xsyon, all we have are animals, that are there just as a way to get bones or leather for some recipies, nothing more, nothing less. So after you have played some days, you have crafted the same item over and over again, you have harvested or scavenged thousand of times, and you have terraformed your home and built some buildings, there is nothing to motivate you, no incentive to do anything.

Being in a post-apocalyptic era, imagine if the Xsyon world was filled with mutant creatures, mutan humanoids, new creatures, and people made their cities or basements and they went hunting for resources, meat, gold, etc... That would change how much fun you can have in the game, a simple example: "hey guys, good evening! Anyone wanna come with me to hunt some "insert creatures name" and if we are lucky we return with some good item to sell or equip ourselves? That gives you incentives to play, but now, I find none.

Opinions? (sorry i am not english and it is hard to explain what I wanted to post hehe)

[MrDDT]

Welcome to the club, been saying this for a while.

You can also do this in many ways. Problem is there is no need to make anything or do anything. Its all for looks.
There is no bears attacking your tribe lands, or starving to death. There isnt hard things to kill or attack. PVP has no incentives either, as items are really easy to get and matter little. You cant control or take over areas.


Im not trying to make this another PVE vs PVP thread, my point is simply there is a LOT of ways to spark a reason to do things.

[fatboy21007]

actually pvp does have an incentive ffa loot from the player ya kill. Pve currently has no incentive except be able to see what you make ( however the new bonus system incentives are very nice) This game does not and should not be like Entropia or darkfall, Its not a clone is xsyon and has its own patch. Their is plenty of other way to create incentives for pve and pvp without turning the game into a cop cat. And zombies are coming to the game that will drop gears etc. So that being said id say things are on track. Just gotta wait it out.

[MrDDT]

actually pvp does have an incentive ffa loot from the player ya kill. Pve currently has no incentive except be able to see what you make ( however the new bonus system incentives are very nice) This game does not and should not be like Entropia or darkfall, Its not a clone is xsyon and has its own patch. Their is plenty of other way to create incentives for pve and pvp without turning the game into a cop cat. And zombies are coming to the game that will drop gears etc. So that being said id say things are on track. Just gotta wait it out.


First off the loot you get off players is not good. Because loot overall has no reason to have it.

Second, it would be like PVE has incentive because you get loot too. Dont you get bones? I get bones every kill in PVE.

Everything else you are talking about I have no clue what you are talking about.

Incentive to PVP, should be over things. Not over someone else's loot that is or isnt better than yours. When I kill players, I dont even loot them because the items they have is crap. So if I have better gear than you, whats my incentive to PVP?

Same goes for PVE?

These monsters should attack tribes, and people causing you to defend yourself, and your tribe. You should want to build defenses not only from people but from PVE. You should want to use better gear because its HARD to kill something, or many things. These things are attacking you and you are worried for your life, and the life of your tribemates.

[NorCalGooey]

Animal AI needs to be able to tell the difference in DIRT SLOPES so they can't walk up dirt walls anymore. Hell, they can even walk up limestone walls. AI needs a lot of work before AI can attack towns and have our defeneses actually mean something. Plus, without ranged the only defense is the choke point.

[xyberviri]

isn't leather used in crafting?

I mean really what it sounds like here is we need to remove all source of leather from scavaging and just strickly have it come from animals. at the very least we need those big resource bundles of leather you get from scrap piles to go away.

then the value of leather and hunting will go up.

[MrDDT]

isn't leather used in crafting?

I mean really what it sounds like here is we need to remove all source of leather from scavaging and just strickly have it come from animals. at the very least we need those big resource bundles of leather you get from scrap piles to go away.

then the value of leather and hunting will go up.


IMO I think you should get leather scraps, and fur scraps 95% of the time from sorting leather scrap. With the other 5% with some leather and fur (FYI you cant get fur from animals ONLY junk piles and scav).

This will make it a lot better for hunting. Right now hunting is not even really important other than bones which still isnt used in but bone armor, and some tools. Most people would much rather get wood than bones because its like 100x easier.

[Xsyon]

I mean really what it sounds like here is we need to remove all source of
leather from scavaging and just strickly have it come from animals.


I agree in general, so what we've done is we added the less valuable leather items to scavenging / sorting while hunted animal resources provide bonuses. Yes, the bonuses do not provide enough value, yet... but this is in the works.

[MrDDT]

Good to hear. Anyway we can get that value added to our skill/stat window or something? Or maybe a message saying "You have increased your agi by .05" so we can see the effect a little or something. Right now we are just in the dark about so much stuff.

Side note, also seeing our stats/skills out to .01 instead of just 1 to 100, do 1.00 to 100.00

[Osirrus]

I'm sure Xsyon said a while back that they were working on mutants, zombies etc.

like everything else it son the way, but i guess they want a more stable animal AI before they stick a new skin on it :)

[unclean666]

Well before they should do anything they need to fix all the animals from getting stuck on a patch of dirt surrounded by granit.I never bothered to hunt untill we got the exp for it and no wonder theres no animals around besides a few bears there all stuck and just keep spawning in the same spot and cant spread out.Just in the one day I hunted 2 massive groups of rabbits stuck massive group of deer stuck massive group of hamsters stuck 3 large groups of bears stuck.

[VeryWiiTee]

Yup the problem is that animals are stuck in some territories because they don't want to or can't move on rock surfaces (for some funny reason.. :P)

Honestly, are there -ever- any other incentive to kill animals (mobs in other games) than to get loot (exp in other games - but exp isn't part of this game so forget that). I don't see any other incentives. Then we can talk about the drop rates making the incentive less since you get abundances through other means or simply through the animal itself.
Second thing is, animals in Xsyon are not to be seen as other mobs. You don't hunt them for the win, the fun or the lulz or exp, you hunt them for parts and parts only. Parts that are getting bonuses so that they are valuable to find and obtain, mix that with humanoid mobs that can have loot which you can hunt for fun and you have a good system.
(A bear can't walk around with an axe as loot unless it can use its paws to grip around the shaft.. oh that sounds dirty.)

My guess is because they don't want to do more than necessary if they do, they waste time they could focus on another area. Ie.
They don't want to finish off mutants and revenants just to have to redo the animation/coding of the mutants/revenants because they made changes to to the AI.

[MrDDT]

Yup the problem is that animals are stuck in some territories because they don't want to or can't move on rock surfaces (for some funny reason.. :P)

Honestly, are there -ever- any other incentive to kill animals (mobs in other games) than to get loot (exp in other games - but exp isn't part of this game so forget that). I don't see any other incentives. Then we can talk about the drop rates making the incentive less since you get abundances through other means or simply through the animal itself.
Second thing is, animals in Xsyon are not to be seen as other mobs. You don't hunt them for the win, the fun or the lulz or exp, you hunt them for parts and parts only. Parts that are getting bonuses so that they are valuable to find and obtain, mix that with humanoid mobs that can have loot which you can hunt for fun and you have a good system.
(A bear can't walk around with an axe as loot unless it can use its paws to grip around the shaft.. oh that sounds dirty.)

My guess is because they don't want to do more than necessary if they do, they waste time they could focus on another area. Ie.
They don't want to finish off mutants and revenants just to have to redo the animation/coding of the mutants/revenants because they made changes to to the AI.


Can you please just stop posting?
I dont even think you play this game.

You do know that there is exp in this game right? Im not talking about just leveling up a skill, because there is that also.

Players should hunt animals for the lolz, exp, loots etc. There is nothing wrong with that. I see no reason why I cant go out and kill 100 bears with my friends just for the fun of it.

Stop posting completely wrong information.

[VeryWiiTee]

I'd like to see new models that can be hunted more for the gain of loot/fun (not crafting materials or parts). These models shouldn't just spawn.
There would be cases where mutated animals could wander out of the mist to attack people, but you would mostly encounter mutated animals if you chase an animal into the mist.
- Mutated animals would not possess loot in form of weapons (unless they stop walking on all four), but mostly possess mutated crafting parts with warped bonuses (perhaps rare bonuses that are better)
- They are a lot more common in misty areas than around the lake.
I'd like to see Revenants that spawns at night, it would be cool to have them attack people or even form little armies that marches on towns.
- They could provide any kind of loot so long it is visible and also carry lesser items, such as herbs, crafting parts, tools etc (stuff that goes in Bins)
- They can spawn pretty much everywhere.

More to DDT:
Didn't your teacher ever teach you to think -outside- the box and interpret?

You can do it for the lulz if you like to, I admit that one might be a bit problematic in that specific context, it should be fun to kill and it should be something you can do to gain experience in hunting and a bit of experience for your exp bar. The only reason I said no hunting for the lulz is if an entire player base hunt for the lulz there won't be any animals left to hunt within a very short amount of time. Ie. You need to think before you hunt.
Say we have a player base of 1k, and everyone decides to pair up. We have 500 hunting teams that would want to kill 100 animals each. That's 50k animals. Suddenly YOU'VE KILLED THE ENTIRE POP.
Let's say that just 50 of that 1k player base decides to hunt 100 animals for the lulz. You've decimated 5k animals (which is 1k above the already population on the live server last I heard).
Do the math yourself. It won't take many people to make every animal type go into hiding/be extinct. THAT was why I said don't just do it for the lulz, 'cos then you'll all just end up whining that you indeed can't find animals.
- In other games creatures will just spawn a new, they don't in Xsyon. So you can do hunting for the lulz as much as you want as they have a (almost) static spawn timer, they'll never disappear.
Hunting Animals for fun is going to be minimum if you want to have a steady supply of leather/bone materials at your hands, especially with weather decay coming, suddenly your pretty bone armor is gone, what'ya gonna do when you can't find animals, whine, wait no you don't have the rights to whine because you decimated the population well-knowing it would turn out like that.
Hunting Revenants for fun, since they will spawn (dig themselves out of the ground at night) and not breed is more likely to be the case in Xsyon. You don't have to care if you make an entire population extinct as they can't grow extinct.

(I make a distinction between animals and revenants and mobs)
Mobs will carry loot regardless of you being able to see it or not - the usual encounter in MMO's. You can get a hammer from a wolf.
Animals are Xsyon specific -animals- that won't carry any given item, but provide you with crafting materials. You get leather from skinning it.
Revenants would be the first Xsyon mob as it can carry many kinds of items, not only items used for crafting. You can get crafting materials, but also weapons and armor (should they carry it) etc.

Actually I was just quoting Xsyon on some areas. Animals won't have 'loot' as you know it, they contain parts/crafting materials (call it loot if you want, I call it parts/materials) you use in crafting whereas humanoid mobs such as Revenants (Zombies as you'd like to call them - wrong name btw) contains loot in form of armor, weapons etc, because it is what they use/what you can see them use, you can gain from their loot table. Can you see a bear use a blade.. NO.

I don't consider Xsyon experience the same as any other game; I don't gain a physical level I can see and touch, I don't gain permanent attributes and I can't gain new actions and my skills I already got don't improve.
All I get from a level is just skill points that indicates what my character would be doing when I'm offline, one fraction of what other games levelling will provide you with.

Go read up on how Experience and Loot works in Xsyon
Or alternatively
Get a life and a Girlfriend/Boyfriend.. Whatever suits you 'cos you clearly play too much.

[MrDDT]

I see, so you resort to personal attacks when you are backed in a corner on your clearly wrong statements nice.

If people are killing off animals only for "lulz" and nothing else thats their right. You should take action vs those players. People will shun them, and kick them out of tribes. Even attack them on sight.

The game forcing people to do things that you dont like, or they dont like is not a good idea. It should be open for how people want to play. Its up to the players to choose how to treat those players, and to stop them from some of this stuff. Its up to the devs to give players the tools to do these things.

I would be glad to see more monsters in the game. But telling people how to play (when you dont even know how) is not a good idea. If you are upset about the way someone is playing, take action vs those players. Ban them from your tribe, or trade agreements. Put bounties on their heads, etc.

I hunt animals a lot, and I dont always skin them, and I do it with groups of people to have fun. Some of the best times in game were not the loot we got from animals but people dying, and joking around while hunting them.

You know that there are no Revenants in the game right?

[VeryWiiTee]

I don't care what you do really.. Be my guest and do whatever you want to. I'm not a hunter by heart, I like to smash zombies that's about it so I don't really care if animals go extinct. You always seem to forget I'd rather have options than restrictions. I'd rather have the option to put up bounties on peoples heads for killing off a population of animals than I want to restrict them from doing it. It is supposed to be heavily based on realism and I certainly can hunt an animal to extinction. Just look at the tiger population or the fishes in the seas.

I was just informing you that

(Taken from Features)
a) Creatures possess realistic loot. If you see armor or a weapon on a creature you can take it. Animals can be carved up for raw materials.
- What I understood you want any kind of loot from animals, that doesn't go along the lines of the above.
b) No set creature spawns or re-spawns. Animals multiply based on the current creature population. Undead never truly die, or do they?
- Means creatures won't just spawn a new only Revenants will.
c) Creatures can overrun areas or be depleted.
- Means certain types of hunting will hurt your own gameplay. In conjunction with b) this means that you can actually make animals go extinct for quite a while. Meaning you wouldn't have anything.. at all. to hunt.

I'm sorry if you took it as a 'this is the only way you can play' it's not. It was just thinking further ahead if you want to avoid certain things, you can't just hunt for the lulz. Well you can, of course but it will end up biting you in your own ass.

If you read the first post I did say I'd rather have them finish up AI than introduce mutants and revenants, that they would then have to redo so animation/coding fits with the AI. Again, I was making examples.
- Should be more than enough indication that I'm quite aware they are -not- in game.

[fatboy21007]

id love to points out their is animals ingame! on my little test last night i was scav/foraging all the way down to 700 came back with 92 chicken bones and 8 hamster bones! (ofc i wanted to make wings in my smoke house cooker ) :-(