Notorious Games, Not a mega million dollar company

[aliksteel]

Xsyon isn't a triple A game, It's a indie game! Surprising right?

Why bring this up, Because I think that people need to understand that in a game that doesn't have a fat bank roll and has a small Dev team. Things take time, When a glich happens, There is no army of programmers to throw at it. The main team(hell the only team) has to stop what they are doing to fix it. This is what slow's down everything else they are working on. As frustrating as it can be, And believe me I have been there. You have to remember that in time this is going to be a great game. Over the past year I have looked at what else is out there, And Xsyon just keeps looking better and better. Unless you are looking for something like EQ2/WOW/Rift/GW2/SWTOR, Xsyon is the game that will take care of your gaming needs, Given enough time to develop.

I'm doing this post because I see people talking about how Xsyon is only after your money, And they don't care what people think, If the Xsyon staff was to respond every time some one asked "How come ....", Then they would never have time to do the other things they need to do. Jooky gives us a lot of updates on what's going on, It may not be to your liking every time, but I'm grateful that he tell's us what's going on. That's a lot more than any AAA MMO out there. When the shit hit's the fan in most MMO's they close the blinds and stop talking till they fix it or it all blows over. that's not how Jooky has done things here, He has been open with the player base.

Will Xsyon be 100% in a month or two, No, And if you think so your fooling yourself. Will Xsyon be a great game, Yes, Given time I see Xsyon becoming great.


Oh one last thing,
One thing I do see that keeps alot of people wanting more from the game. Xsyon is not set up like most MMO's, It's about as close to an sandbox game as it comes. Most people say they want a sandbox game, But when they log into Xsyon and find that there no NPC there to hold there hand or tell them what to do. They think there is nothing to do, In this game Jooky wants the player to make the world a living place. Meaning you have to come up with task, quest, event's, the fun! People say after you build there is nothing to do, BS, What would you do in other games? Go find a quest from some one, Get on the forums or set it up in game, And have wars/fights/pvp with other tribes. The combat system is looking real good. I know what you will say to that, Whats there to fight over? You make that up as you go, Fight just to fight and video it to show all the world. Place bets for crapy armor, weapons. There is nothing stopping people from having fun in the game other than themselves.

[eric]

Wow aliksteel, your posts (like this one right now) really make me glad that you have returned to let us all enjoy your insightful knowledge!

Since nowadays almost no one posts or comments (not even our other hero MrDDT) its so refreshing to see you here on the frontier again ;).
Thanks for filling the forum with your positivism and delightful trust and devotion to Xsyon, its developers and the 'user created' goals where there are almost none supplied by the game (we sure wouldn't want anything resembling guidance from within the game eh).

Lastly, it clearly shows that taking an involuntary 'break' for months does wonders for ones (in this case yours) faith in Xsyon.

[Aethaeryn]

Xsyon isn't a triple A game, It's a indie game! Surprising right?

Why bring this up, Because I think that people need to understand that in a game that doesn't have a fat bank roll and has a small Dev team. Things take time, When a glich happens, There is no army of programmers to throw at it. The main team(hell the only team) has to stop what they are doing to fix it. This is what slow's down everything else they are working on. As frustrating as it can be, And believe me I have been there. You have to remember that in time this is going to be a great game. Over the past year I have looked at what else is out there, And Xsyon just keeps looking better and better. Unless you are looking for something like EQ2/WOW/Rift/GW2/SWTOR, Xsyon is the game that will take care of your gaming needs, Given enough time to develop.

I'm doing this post because I see people talking about how Xsyon is only after your money, And they don't care what people think, If the Xsyon staff was to respond every time some one asked "How come ....", Then they would never have time to do the other things they need to do. Jooky gives us a lot of updates on what's going on, It may not be to your liking every time, but I'm grateful that he tell's us what's going on. That's a lot more than any AAA MMO out there. When the shit hit's the fan in most MMO's they close the blinds and stop talking till they fix it or it all blows over. that's not how Jooky has done things here, He has been open with the player base.

Will Xsyon be 100% in a month or two, No, And if you think so your fooling yourself. Will Xsyon be a great game, Yes, Given time I see Xsyon becoming great.


Oh one last thing,
One thing I do see that keeps alot of people wanting more from the game. Xsyon is not set up like most MMO's, It's about as close to an sandbox game as it comes. Most people say they want a sandbox game, But when they log into Xsyon and find that there no NPC there to hold there hand or tell them what to do. They think there is nothing to do, In this game Jooky wants the player to make the world a living place. Meaning you have to come up with task, quest, event's, the fun! People say after you build there is nothing to do, BS, What would you do in other games? Go find a quest from some one, Get on the forums or set it up in game, And have wars/fights/pvp with other tribes. The combat system is looking real good. I know what you will say to that, Whats there to fight over? You make that up as you go, Fight just to fight and video it to show all the world. Place bets for crapy armor, weapons. There is nothing stopping people from having fun in the game other than themselves.

I will give you a standard response to this that I think bears consideration even though personally I am not convinced it is completely valid:

If they put that much less money etc into it. . why are we asked to pay the same as for a game created by a company that did? The answer would be because it is something you support and they need revenue to continue developing it. . . and that with a smaller user base it makes up some difference. I think the question is one people find hard to overcome. There is a psychological issue with paying for something that doesn't meet your expectations. You would suggest that people should not have the expectations they do - but this don't make that happen. You might reach 1 in 20 with that message. Mostly you are preaching to the converted. It is a noble cause but you will see that since you have not gotten a lot of negative feedback the people you are trying to reach may have moved on. People reading the forums now, I am sure, are pretty aware of the game and its development.

I do applaud your effort though.

[VeryWiiTee]

I will give you a standard response to this that I think bears consideration even though personally I am not convinced it is completely valid:

If they put that much less money etc into it. . why are we asked to pay the same as for a game created by a company that did? The answer would be because it is something you support and they need revenue to continue developing it. . . and that with a smaller user base it makes up some difference. I think the question is one people find hard to overcome. There is a psychological issue with paying for something that doesn't meet your expectations. You would suggest that people should not have the expectations they do - but this don't make that happen. You might reach 1 in 20 with that message. Mostly you are preaching to the converted. It is a noble cause but you will see that since you have not gotten a lot of negative feedback the people you are trying to reach may have moved on. People reading the forums now, I am sure, are pretty aware of the game and its development.

I do applaud your effort though.

Speak for yourself, will you? Or at least just Americans.

We Europeans, for once, does not pay more than 2/3 of a normal subscription fee like those of World of Warcraft, Rift, Aion, FFXIV.
How?

One month normal European sub - 12,99€
One month Xsyon sub - 12,99$

Converted into dollars:

One Month normal European sub - 18,89$
One month Xsyon sub - 12,99$.

Just saying. Some of us are only paying 2/3 of a normal sub. Certainly I won't complain about the sub fee when every other game company is ripping me of my money to play something that I find equally as boring as some find Xsyon boring. (NOT that I don't find Xsyon boring on occasions.)

[Aethaeryn]

Speak for yourself, will you? Or at least just Americans.



I am not American so I would not feel comfortable speaking for them. Also I was speaking about the idea of paying for something regardless of the price. I never mentioned any dollar amount. that is why dropping the sub price to draw people would not work either in my opinion.

I also was only giving my opinion and never claimed to speak for anyone else. I found it funny that you said that and then by your own assumed definition went on to speak for Europeans.

I would not pay $5 a month for something that did not entertain me enough. I just don't have the time. I would pay $30 a month easily for the one game that was good enough.

[L0rd0fIvIetal]

Speak for yourself, will you? Or at least just Americans.

We Europeans, for once, does not pay more than 2/3 of a normal subscription fee like those of World of Warcraft, Rift, Aion, FFXIV.
How?

One month normal European sub - 12,99€
One month Xsyon sub - 12,99$

Converted into dollars:

One Month normal European sub - 18,89$
One month Xsyon sub - 12,99$.

Just saying. Some of us are only paying 2/3 of a normal sub. Certainly I won't complain about the sub fee when every other game company is ripping me of my money to play something that I find equally as boring as some find Xsyon boring. (NOT that I don't find Xsyon boring on occasions.)

LoL there u go again making urself look stupid keep it up i love the way u make me lol and please dont speak for everyone as u sit infront of the comp and have no idea about whats happening around u

[Mactavendish]

Its funny that those that are posting positive feedback on the forums never get banned nor develop a bad rep, but get attacked so quickly by those that HAVE been banned, are generally disliked in game by virtually any player they interact with...

Tells me that even the Developers and guides are sick and tire of the negatives!

Think I will start posting POSITIVE feedback again. :)

[Dubanka]

how do you know who has been banned? Have i been banned? Pray tell.

yyour group hug has 5 responses...and the core of those responses are centered around the city building aspect, which even haters like me admit is pretty cool (and as i said in a thread in the open section...the building aspect alone is worth the game price, as you will get a solid 30-60 dayys of enternainment value out of just building your town). Who is saying they love the crafting? The economy? Trade? PvP? you know, the other 80% of what should make up the game? I know, they just don't read the forums because of the meanies that run rampant there.

anyway, congrats on being a hypocrite...and bashing players who have a perfectly valid point to make...albeit one your disagree with.

[xyberviri]

There is a psychological issue with paying for something that doesn't meet your expectations.

There is also a psychological issue with the price of a product called a Anchor price, IE if you release a production and sell it for 100.00 some people might buy it, how ever if you release it for 200.00 but have it on sale for 100.00 you increase the chance that some one would have bought it due to the perception of a deal.

once you set or lower a price how ever its very hard to raise it back up.

[Aethaeryn]

There is also a psychological issue with the price of a product called a Anchor price, IE if you release a production and sell it for 100.00 some people might buy it, how ever if you release it for 200.00 but have it on sale for 100.00 you increase the chance that some one would have bought it due to the perception of a deal.

once you set or lower a price how ever its very hard to raise it back up.

That is an excellent point. The value perceived by lowering the price always seems like less than the perceived cost of the increase. . . even if it was expected etc. I know Gods and Heroes is now $10 a month. Even if the game becomes worth $20 current players would have a hard time paying even $15. It is a slippery slope.

I know watching my currency bounce around based on the US dollar means in the past I would pay $20 a month where now I pay around $14 for most games. Because the base cost of the game does not change that doesn't seem to bother me. . or get me excited. Even knowing how these things work I am susceptible.

[VeryWiiTee]

Except that the price for Xsyon sub went up since I lasted checked i can actually speak for all Europeans. On the subject of subscriptions and whether we pay more, the same or less.

The amount of money you pay in one European country doesn't divert from what they pay in another European country. Just as you wouldn't charge more money for a sub in one American state compared to another American state.
- Quite easy to speak on other peoples behalf when you have those facts. I never said they would buy the game though. Just that it was cheaper for a European. The math was just to prove it, nothing else.

I can even screen cap you the european sub fee from World of Warcraft if you'd like.

Quoting myself, if you refer to speaking on other peoples behalf I'll have you know that this was plastered with I, me, my, I and an I.


"Certainly I won't complain about the sub fee when every other game company is ripping me of my money to play something that I find equally as boring as some find Xsyon boring. (NOT that I don't find Xsyon boring on occasions.)"At no point did I actually speak for an entire region without supporting material.
For Europeans it was how much a fee normally cost for a European vs. what Xsyon costs for a European.



If they put that much less money etc into it. . why are we asked to pay the same as for a game created by a company that did

Whereas Aetheryn (I do agree with some of your points :). just not the equal pay) ask why we should pay the same amount of money, when it is quite clear that Europeans gets a benefit. Was all I was out to prove. Change it with a "Why am I" instead of "Why are we" and I'd have been happeh. That wasn't what it said.

The American presumption was totally on me, I thought it was quite clear to anyone but Americans that only they, the Americans, are paying the same amount of dollars as they would with any other MMO (I presume - since they are fiery and pissed about paying the same amount - all stemming from this forum.)

(I won't speak for or include Asia as I have no clue how it is setup in their region.)

[Aethaeryn]

Except that the price for Xsyon sub went up since I lasted checked i can actually speak for all Europeans. On the subject of subscriptions and whether we pay more, the same or less.

The amount of money you pay in one European country doesn't divert from what they pay in another European country. Just as you wouldn't charge more money for a sub in one American state compared to another American state.
- Quite easy to speak on other peoples behalf when you have those facts. I never said they would buy the game though. Just that it was cheaper for a European. The math was just to prove it, nothing else.

I can even screen cap you the european sub fee from World of Warcraft if you'd like.

Quoting myself, if you refer to speaking on other peoples behalf I'll have you know that this was plastered with I, me, my, I and an I.

At no point did I actually speak for an entire region without supporting material.
For Europeans it was how much a fee normally cost for a European vs. what Xsyon costs for a European.



Whereas Aetheryn (I do agree with some of your points :). just not the equal pay) ask why we should pay the same amount of money, when it is quite clear that Europeans gets a benefit. Was all I was out to prove. Change it with a "Why am I" instead of "Why are we" and I'd have been happeh. That wasn't what it said.

The American presumption was totally on me, I thought it was quite clear to anyone but Americans that only they, the Americans, are paying the same amount of dollars as they would with any other MMO (I presume - since they are fiery and pissed about paying the same amount - all stemming from this forum.)

(I won't speak for or include Asia as I have no clue how it is setup in their region.)

Ah crap I had a long reply and lost it.

I can see why you went where you did with that. I meant MMOs in general. They have to charge "normal" fees though due to the lower subs regardless of less capital/resources put into the game. (<--this is my own counterpoint to what I said). Again, I was giving a "standard" reply that one would hear while not agreeing with it - no one seemed to be responding to the thread. :) I do take your point though and had not known about the great deal you guys get on the game which is good since you seem to get hosed with the VAT being added from what I have seen.

[VeryWiiTee]

I know.. I just can't help it :). It's nothing personal, it's more it could be misunderstood.

As I said, I do agree with you as well. It probably hould have been at the top of the first post.. Anywho. That was prolly a bit off topic :).

[Chewybunny]

I'm sorry. But that isn't how it works in this industry.
Even if you are an indie developer, when you aim to make an MMORPG expect to spend, millions. If your company simply doesn't have the money from the get-go to develop an MMO...don't.

Indie developer is an all too familiar excuse now a days to justify lack of quality for a game.

Xsyon IS after your money because it's a business in the end. They want to invest that money into better services, better development etc. To pretend otherwise is being utterly naive.

However, when you start playing with the big boys of genres, expect to compete or don't even bother. If you are an indie developer and have a small budget to develop a game, DON'T aim for a MMO, because you will fail 99% of the time. In the rare exception that you succeed in finishing one, goodluck making it anywhere near as mainstream as some of the big boys.

And do not tell me that this isn't what the developers of Xsyon don't dream about each night. They do. They wish they were as big as the big boys and I also wish they were as well.

That said, it is understandable that they have a limited budget, and limited time with that budget, but it also means that their player base is a lot more valuable than other game developers would see them as. Xsyon owes the player base to bring them a AAA Title because that is what it set out to do when it first launched into development.

Falling short of that, and using "Well we are an indie developer" as an excuse is a cheap cop-out. And it also shows a poorly constructed business plan, poorly constructed planning in general.

I know you want to defend them for their work and their game, and believe me it is admirable for what they have done. But to lower the player base' expectations because it's an indie developer is patronizing the developers.

[Liquidblade]

I f I want to make a game, I gather some friends and start working at it.....and we don't have to spend millions....we just have to work hard and without rest....now I would not start charging people to play until I know that the game is ready to be played. Now if it was money we needed, i would consider a donation option or something.

[Hellaciouss]

There is a difference between not having a lot of money/developing slowly vs taking the game the complete opposite way from which was promised. WURM online has had only like 1-2 devs and look at it.

No, the problem is the players were lied to, not that they (the devs) aren't rich and have a very small team. The majority of those looking to play this game came because of the promised open world survival and warfare, not for the protected tribal totems that litter the game world today with no point to PvPing cause materials are infinite and everywhere.

[NorCalGooey]

There is a difference between not having a lot of money/developing slowly vs taking the game the complete opposite way from which was promised. WURM online has had only like 1-2 devs and look at it.

No, the problem is the players were lied to, not that they (the devs) aren't rich and have a very small team. The majority of those looking to play this game came because of the promised open world survival and warfare, not for the protected tribal totems that litter the game world today with no point to PvPing cause materials are infinite and everywhere.

This...and it is soooo sad the devs can't just come forward and admit to this, or any of the carebears.

But like I have said before, my theory is that they don't want to ruin there last chance of repopulating the game by releasing territory warfare before the rest of the systems are implemented and polished. Players won't care if there is territory warfare if the combat and siege systems are broken as hell, and they will leave the game as they did before.

So the systems need to be working first, then they can do advertisements about the end of prelude and the start of whatever is next and using territory warfare as a key feature to draw people back. Also releasing a 1 week free trial at this time and giving all players who used to have an active account 1 free month of play. When players come back and see territory warfare, combat and other features working they will stay.

[trash656]

LoL there u go again making urself look stupid keep it up i love the way u make me lol and please dont speak for everyone as u sit infront of the comp and have no idea about whats happening around u

The only "idiot" here is someone calling another person names simply because he doesn't agree with him. Having disagreements is a major facet of life and something usually most of us learned way way back in highschool. Maybe one day when you grow in your stage of development you will come to realize that people have different idea's and opinions, and that this doesn't make someone an "idiot" it just means they have different idea's.

Cheers,
-Trash